remote viewing the modern mental martial art by yoga for the mind you are about
to learn from the Masters of the craft the history art science and the secrets
of remote viewing through time and space
there has been an enormous amount written in various books about what the
CIA did or did not do about remote viewing some of the stuff is fairly amazing if not credible
our first speaker whom I have known for about 35 years looks like a man who
knows where the secrets are and in fact does and tonight he's going to share
some of them with us I met Hal put off back in the early 70s
he had a national reputation as a physicist working in laser and laser
optics who got interested in remote viewing and who along with Russell Targ
were the founding scientists of that laboratory it is a real pleasure to get Hal to come out and talk about this
you're going to hear stuff you haven't heard anywhere else and you're going to
hear it from the person who really does know where the truth lies it's my
pleasure to give you how put off
this program began in 1972 and I'm going to begin with the history of the program
just to give you some perspective on exactly what the conditions are in which
it started historically it was a top-secret what's called special access program and an S AP special access
program means that even if someone has a top-secret clearance they may not
necessarily have access to the program it's covered by various code words grill
flames Sun streak Stargate these were some of the names so unless you are on a
list to have access to these codeword materials you did not get access just
because you had the top-secret clearance the present time a third of the program
is still classified but a declassification program started in July
of 1995 at that point the CIA part of the program which was where it started
Declassified the three years that they were the prime client giving both the
history and the actual material that's available to you through foi a in
September of 1995 there was an unclassified history the program that
covered from 72 to 95 that was published as part of a CIA funded American
institutes for research study now that part of the program did not declassify
the actual contents of much of the program but just the history of the
program to date seventy three thousand five hundred pages of formerly
classified material have been released another 17,000 pages are still denied
and twenty thousand eight hundred pages are in review you can actually go to the
National Archives in Washington DC which I've done and you can ask them for a CD they won't give it to you
but they will put it into a computer and you can scan the files and if you see something you want to learn about you
can actually print it out and then leave with it those of us that have been
deeply involved in the program are doing what we can to see if we can't get CDs
actually released so the people can use them at home or wherever perhaps one of
the most paranormal aspects of the program is that ever got started at a
place like SR I this entire complex you see here is SR I at the time 1972 they
were doing about 350 million dollars worth of business much of it for the
government originally it was part of Stanford University but with the student riots and recognizing there was
classified material being handled at SR I which the students didn't like when as
part of Stanford University they got a divorce and SR I paid Stanford
University alimony and agreed to drop Stanford in its title so Stanford
Research Institute is now just called SR I international now the way the program
got started I had been at Stanford and working on lasers quantum electronics I
just completed a textbook with a co-author there and on lasers and
quantum electronics and this is always the case there's nothing like writing a book to realize there's a lot of stuff
you don't know and one of the things I realized I didn't know was whether
quantum physics could ever apply to human consciousness for example and so I
proposed a very modest program and circulated around a proposal to begin to
explore quantum aspects of human processing and a copy of that proposal ended up on a desk in New York somebody
looked at it and it turned out that Ingo Swann who'll hear more about in this
conference and who'll be presenting in this conference
happen to see a copy of my proposal and so he wrote me a letter and he said look if you're interested in quantum physics
and consciousness you shouldn't be working with algae which is what my
proposal had to do with because I can't tell you anything he should be working
with someone like me you should be working with psychics well actually I'd
never thought of that at that point I never even bought a copy of fate
magazine but along with his letter he provided some material that indicated
that he had successfully done some psychokinesis work at City College in
New York and as a physicist that interested me so I invited him to come
out to SR I and and see what he could do this is one of his paintings he's really
quite a well-known artist and his paintings often appear on covers of
magazines or have and on the covers of books this is called a ship's view of
Sagittarius right now it's at the National Air and Space Museum of the
Smithsonian that's Ingo on the right as we looked in
1972 so he agreed to come out I agreed to have him come out and I started
talking to my physics friends about well what kind of experiment should we do and
of course all my cynical physicist friends said well you know these guys
were all frauds and charlatans you better really have something good or
you're going to get snookered so I looked around to try to find something
that would be good and what I finally came up with was a shielded magnetometer
it's basically a very high-tech compass needle but it's claim to fame was that
it was buried in the floor of a building surrounded by electrostatic copper shielding surrounded by MU metal
magnetic shielding surrounded by superconducting shielding it was a
device to look for quarks fundamental particles and its claim to fame was that it was totally imperturbable from the
outside so I took it and go over there and said I'd like for you to perturb
this device he said where is it well it's down there
under the floor inside that superconducting shielding and so he
asked well how I know if I'm successful so we showed him a printout that was
generally being generated and it was it would go up and down about once a minute
and that's how it runs standardly and so I said what I like for you to perturb it
so he said well first I have to see what's in there and he began drawing and
describing what he saw down inside there and as he did so we saw this effect and
I said how'd you do that he said I'd do anything I just looked at
it I said well look at it again and then this effect occurred and of course a
graduate student whose thesis depended on this that's stopped there must be something wrong with me so we talked in
other subjects and kind of looked around and thought about other things and the few more cycles came out and so we said
well why don't you look in there again and then that's what happened the grad
student said well you know that I think something is wrong why don't you guys
just go away leave me alone for a half hours I I got to look and see what's
what's the problem here and so that's how it generated for the next twenty or
thirty minutes or so and then we said okay why don't you look in there again
and bingo that's what happened for graduation so I really tears her Ali
says I want you guys out of my lab I've got to take some more data to find out
what's happening here and so he ran for hours and there's no other perturbation
so I thought this is pretty pretty interesting and actually is pretty
interesting that he could seemingly describe what was in there because in
fact the innards of this device had never been published anywhere so I wrote
this up and circulated it around and after
a couple of weeks the CIA landed on my doorstep and said have we been looking
for you and I said well what did I do said well you did this experiment and
our problem is that we have data indicating that the Soviets so we called
them at the time the Soviets are spending millions of dollars a year on this stuff they've got some of the best
institutes and the best PhDs working on it and nobody in America even believes
there is such a thing so we don't know how to evaluate this do you think you
could have him come out and you know sort of demonstrate this to us we'd like
to really see if this really you know there's something to it we couldn't care less about the psychokinesis but we're
really interested in this what we now call remote viewing aspect the fact that
he could see inside here so I said okay so they showed up Ingo agreed so he
spent a couple of days hiding things and boxes and envelopes and they would bring
him into the room and he would describe what's what's in there one time they
even tried to be a little tricky he came into the room and he said well it looks
like a leaf or something but it's moving around well they put in a a moth it
looked like like a leaf and I don't have that data because they took the date
away with them but I'll show you some similar experiments so why did they come
and land on my doorstep actually I have to give you a little background here
following my master's degree at the University of Florida I went on active
duty as an intelligence officer for the Navy involved in naval security group headquarters and then out at Fort Meade
at national security agency I like the job I had there when I got out I stayed
on as a civilian so they had me well calibrated I had lots of clearances I've
been polygraphed etc etc so I actually went out to Stanford get my PhD I was still an NSA employee but after being in
California for about a year I said you know
want to go back to Laurel Maryland and never be able to publish anything is
that I don't think so so I resigned
graduated from Stanford in 67 stayed there working on this text book I
mentioned until 72 and then joined SR I early in 1972 and then that's when this
occurred very soon after I arrived there
the data they showed me was about an inch thick listing all these Institute's
all these PhDs all these experiments eventually it was published by the Defense Intelligence Agency is called
para physics R&D Warsaw Pact and I think you can obtain that on the web these
days it was finally pretty much Declassified well as I say I don't have
the actual experimental data that we generated for them but soon after that Russell Targ and I had done an
experiment with another remote viewer showed up pehle hamid and we did similar
experiments with her because we wanted to get our own data that we could
evaluate now you may think I'm just showing you the best data ever sweeping
the bad data under the rug this is actually the first five experiments that we did with her in this particular
protocol the protocol was that we would hide an object in a film can and then
she would have to describe what she saw so we put a spool and pin in there and
she sort of drew the cross-section of a spool and a pen put it curled up leaf
and she got something curled up this one really gave her a problem because he
said the strongest image I get is of a leather belt and I know a belt can't fit
in a film camp it actually was a little leather belt keyring maybe difficult to
see this but with this case we just poured sand into the can and if you just
look at the sand that's the characteristics that it actually has so
you can see why it was generating data like that that that they would get
interested and so they started out by just saying well about a little 50 K program 50
not a program to see what there is to this so we said sure why not just a lark
at the time I didn't know my next 13 years we're going to go into this
program
Russell joined me and so at that point we decided we would launch this program
into what we called remote viewing a name that Ingo came up with and we
started the way you would think except we were sort of high tech about it
that is instead of hiding things and envelopes or whatever we would tend to
like turn lasers on and off in the next room and have him tell you no the laser
on isn't off whatever but we did do some objects and boxes and so on
he said you know he want to know what's in the box open it up don't know what's
in the envelope tear it open here I have this great
ability he's very self-confident person I had this great ability I can see anywhere in the planet and you had me
doing this stupid stuff I think I'm going to quit well we'd really didn't
want him to quit and of course we thought what he was suggesting was
ridiculous so we finally agreed that okay on the coffee breaks we'll do some of those experiments just to get it out
of your system and then we'll go back to our good scientific experiments and so on our coffee breaks we'd say well what
he wants to do well just send somebody out to some Aryan someplace in the Bay
Area and I'll draw where they are and so it turned out that he was coming up with really very successful results so we
told our contract monitors at CIA that well you know it looks like you know you
can describe places that are far away so do you want us to look at that and say
well of course and so we started down that track now here's a good remote viewing experiment of course you'd wish
that all experiments were this good they're not all this good but we do get
results like this from time to time this particular one was generated by Joe
mcmoneagle later in the program who was one of the
the army intelligence viewers from the Intelligence and Security Command at
Fort Meade and you'd love for remote viewing to always look like that by the
way here is Joe as you may know he continues to do remote viewing has
written a number of books about his experiences but actually what I want to do here is to actually show the problems
with remote viewing and why it's not perfect here is one that we did with
hella Hamid the one the woman who did the cans experiment the canisters
experiment in this case I was sent out to a remote site which turned out to be
an overpass over a freeway Russell stayed with her in the laboratory and
had her describe where I was and make drawings and she says well there's
something going by fast I don't know what it is
of course it was the cars in the freeway and she said you know if you stand where
he's standing it looks like that it's sort of like a trough in the air except
it's got holes in it so it couldn't carry water so here we began to see a
pattern that we saw throughout the program it eventually became to
understand quite well and that is these pictures these Gestalt would come in but
the analysis wouldn't necessarily follow they wouldn't necessarily interpret
where it was that they saw and that's why by the way your typical thing you might challenge somebody with if they
claim to be psyches okay I'm gonna write down some numbers here and I'll tell me
what I've written down I mean it just turns out that's that's not the right
kind of thing about that time another remote viewer talented person joined us
Pat price I'll let you guess who the CIA agent is
they call us the plaid pants trio
there's a nymph experiment we had done it we had done some experiments in which
the CIA agent would fly around in the glider and pat on the ground would have to reproduce drawings he made and vice
versa and we got some good results there but
again I want to show you a problem with remote viewing he says well what turned
out to be a swimming pool complex there's a circular pool about 120 feet
in diameter it's really 110 there's square pool here about 60 by 89
feet it's really 75 by 100 you get an almost perfect description of this pool house but in a way what's actually more
interesting about this and the reason I show it is what's wrong with it we say
well what kind of place do you think it is he says well I think it's a water
purification plant and so he added some swirling machinery here in the middle of
the pools of water which of course were not there and he said you know I see a
couple of big tanks of water up here in the corner also which as it turns out
we're not there so it seemed like there was a mixture of real access to a target
and then imagination coming into play which is the phenomenon we saw often now
what makes it a little more complex is that my colleague Russell Targ and
looking through some history of Palo Alto found out that at this location some decades before there was a water
purification plant and I did have a couple of Tanks of water so you know what are you gonna do
with that now in case again you think that I'm kind of showing you some good
results and brushing the rest under the rug the SSRI management was very
concerned about this kind of work worried that we would ruin the
reputation of SR I got a very skeptical panel of scientists with an SSRI to help
us develop a protocol and so on the protocol that was developed was this
they said you know if somebody goes out with the transcript in hand to the
target and says oh sky is blue grass is green this is a great match you know it's not going to mean anything so the
scheme we came up with was that judges who did not know which transcript went
with which target would go out with all the transcripts randomly numbered and
visit each of the sites so they go to Hoover Tower and they say well
transcript number 5 matches best transcript number one matches
second-best transcript number two sort of third best and the rest are all sort
of the same and then they would go to the next site and read the same
transcripts all over again and you can see it wasn't always great I mean Hoover
tower you have the name Hoover tower the marina he named that they were boats
along the docks so I mean how could they miss but in the bridge toll plaza
actually what he described was one of the more miserable kinds of matches so
even with the wonderful stuff he could do from time to time it wasn't always great but make a long story short when
we finally break the code we find that seven of the nine times even though the descriptions were perfect you could go
and you knew somebody I've been kidnapped nine times and you're asked to
go and try to find this person let's see one two three four five six
six of the nine times if I've counted right you would have gone to the correct
place first simply based on what the room of your set so there's just no
doubt in this blind judging procedure which then became the technique that's
used by our lab and then now many other labs that have replicated replicated
this work including prints and engineering laboratories have done out
some twenty years or more of research on this getting the same kind of results we
wondered what is it with these people they must be different so we decided to
find out what do they like medically this even included seven-layer EMI brain
scans and the answer came back they're just normal people so in our wisdom we said oh well it must
be neuropsychological or psychological so we ran through all these tests the
time we finished with them we knew more about them than NASA knew about its
astronauts and had it's funny minutes moments I recall hearing from the
psychologists that was giving Pat Price his psychology interview and asked him
about early memories he says what do you want me to just stick to this lifetime
but again what we found in these studies was these people were perfectly normal
nothing really special well this solved a problem for us of
great magnitude we began to realize well maybe this is something that's widely
distributed maybe anybody can do it about that time as we're reporting these
results back to CIA headquarters they were getting nervous they were concerned
that maybe it was a scam involving us you know maybe really told them in
advance where we're going to go so they decided to send out their most super
skeptic they could find this guy shows up and he says my name is Edie but you
can call me scam Buster I'm here to find out exactly how you guys are doing this
fraudulently so okay okay well let me see one of these experiment so we do an
experiment he goes with me out to the side Russell stays back in interviews we
come back the remote viewers really nailed where we were so we're really
happy but scam Buster says haha yeah you just told him in advance let me pick the
site fine you picked a site so we do another experiment he picks a site we
get back another great report so he's mumbling to himself he knows it's a scam
he says okay maybe you had a bug in your car or that that could be okay we're
going to go in my car this time I'm going to pick the side again and we're
not going to talk in the car okay fine fine so we go out to the site we're
there for 15 minutes and he says quick get my car we're going to go to
someplace else we go oh no wait a minute experiment supposed to last half an hour
it's okay you guys may have had somebody follow us and man you're telling them so
I want to pick another site right in the middle experiment meanwhile the poor remote viewers saying you know we're
only 15 in the experiment they're getting in the car ready anyway describes both places
really well since I know it's a fraud let me think about it overnight okay
fine meanwhile Russ and I get together we say
you know we got a hard case here our only hope is since we've learned that
sort of anybody can do it to some degree let's make him do it tomorrow so he
shows up yeah I mean you're not going to believe when I'm about to tie it he
shows up says okay where's remote viewer we say well today
you're going to be the remote viewer he said you got to be kidding I don't
believe in this stuff he said it much more strongly than that said well try it
I mean at least you'll be able to report back to your human subjects panel that it's not stressful or whatever he says
okay finally we twisted his arm II agreed to do it so I'm sent out to a
site Russell's interviewing him says okay you know close your eyes and tell
me what you see since okay my eyes are closed it's dark
I see the back of my eyelids so Russ as well you have to use your imagination
you've got to get into this it says home imagination I've got a great imagination
I see him at a bridge over screen but it's just my imagination so I come back
from the bridge over the stream target
we take him there he is really blown away so you can imagine but as we're
driving back in the car he says I know it's a fraud we said well wait a minute
you did it since I know but I I know how you got me to do that we're going to do
another experiment I don't want any interviewer with me I want to do another
experiment okay so put him in the room by himself tape the door shut because we
don't believe him anymore you believe and trust him anymore he trusts us
we're sent out to our sites who stay there our point of time we come back
take the tape off the door go inside he's sitting in the corner
with his hands over his ears by the way and clipboard he's got a great
description where we were and we said well what's this sitting in the corner
with your hands over here why don't you want somebody with you to
interview I mean that goes better that way he said well I had two hypotheses
the first hypothesis was that Russell knew the target and so he was carefully
cueing me with body language into putting down the right answers that's
why I didn't want an interviewer with me my second idea was that in the chair you
had me sitting in you probably had speakers in the cushions and they were
subliminally whispering a description of the site and I was picking it up and
putting it down said well obviously you know that's not the case so you see it really works right it says no no no I
have figured out how you do it you said well what he says let's do another
experiment this time when you're at your site you take pictures make tape
recordings and when you come back you give me your data pack before I show you
what I've drawn all right all right we'll do that on our tape you can hear
the kids playing with the merry-go-round
here his drawings you know he's got to sink in pie-shaped sections which I know
if you can see here but it is he has these which sort of match this on the other hand again we see
misinterpretation in terms of his analysis of it he thought of some kind of cupola which it isn't and we said
okay well what was the deal you want to see our data package first and he said I
finally figured out the only remaining possibility is that when you guys left
you did go anywhere you just sat in the lobby then you would come back see what
I had drawn and take me to a place that looks like that
anyway he was now convinced so he went back reported to headquarters that this
stuff really works so of course they were now concerned that he was part of
the scam or we slipped something in his coffee or used hypnosis I don't know so about
that time it was decided well one of our contract monitors at CIA said okay well
to make it so that people don't think we're part of this I'm going to go to
somebody else in CIA have them pick a target they're not to tell me what it is
and when they pick it I'm just going to give them coordinates of the target it
turns out coordinates work as well as sending somebody to a site as crazy as
that is and we don't have time to go into it but anyway that works too and so
those results have we gotten to date up to that point including the CIA person
we published in or we sent in to be published that through the Proceedings
of the IEEE tripoli institute of electrical electronics engineers both
Russ and I are well known we had published were members of the Society of engineers we had published articles on
electron tubes and so on and then the poor editor gets this paper on remote
viewing he sends it out for review by and large the reviews come back very
positive and then but he got one review where someone said this is the kind of
thing I wouldn't believe in even if it were true so we didn't know what to do
so when we asked him about it he said well I'm afraid the engineers will just
you know really think this is nonsense and I don't think I can afford to go ahead so what we propose is why don't
you let us come to Bell Labs we'll make a presentation to the
engineering staff if they like it publish it they don't like it don't so
we did that and they loved it so we thought we were
in he was still concerned about it and finally in our frustration now that we
learned to do this we said okay do your own experiments here in Bell Labs if
they work publish our paper and if they don't don't so he did they worked and he
let us publish the paper in that paper we put down all of the experiments we've
done to date in the paper you'll see the phrase visitor one visitor two visitor
three now it can be told that those are acronyms for CIA agents even experiment
which only they were involved themselves turned out to be statistically
significant as I started to say there was a problem with people back at the
agency feeling that you know maybe there was some collusion even with them and so
that's when one of our contract monitors went and got a target site from somebody
else so that he wouldn't know what it was so nobody could accuse him of being part of it and what the fellow had given
him were coordinates of a vacation cabin in West Virginia so we had two remote viewers looked at this Ingo Swann and
Pat price they both started out saying well not much here you know the woods and cabins but what the person who gave
him the coordinates didn't know was right over the ridge was a super-secret
NSA facility and so both of them said oh that must be what they want us to
describe so Ingo gives a description of what it looks at it looks like and how
it's all laid out Pat price got really excited about this site decided to
wander through the facility reading name tags
and he said words just popped into his mind so he wrote down a whole list of
words well this is eventually written up in studies elegans
originally classified CIA article Pat Price who had no military intelligence
background provide a list of project titles associated with current and past
activities including one of extreme sensitivity also the code name of the
site was provided well as you can imagine this brought the entire law
enforcement apparatus of the United States down around our necks
they said how'd you get this information Oh remote viewers did it don't get me
that who leaked this and so began a five-year investigation even this has
its peculiar aspects really the only thing classified about the program was
who were doing it for and why we're doing it
and the fact that there was a classified aspect to it and meanwhile the investigators are going all around the
neighborhood saying well you know what's personality does this person drank this
you know if everybody comes up to me and this process is says well he must be
doing something really secret which of course was the only secret that we had
was that we were doing something secret to left hand and the right hand business
and but what saved this was that John McMahon who was a division director time
eventually became deputy director of CIA said well if this stuff really works
let's not waste it on our sites so we were given a Soviet site to look at all
we were given record notes Pat price was the remote viewer in this case he
described kind of this layout here and then he said you know I'm lying in my
back on the top of a building and this humongous crane that's many stories tall
rolling over the building a man is only half a wheel height that's so big well I
must have been I was really embarrassed to see this result but it sounded like
science fiction to me and the agents were waiting in a motel so I
went over and I started with apologies I'm sorry I'm he's come up with this
science fiction thing and what can I say well here's what the site actually looks
like there's a building there's a crane there's a man so in fact it was quite as
he described here you can see the sort of comparison and so they said well if this is it this is good stuff and so
they spent a week with him having him wander around the facility and describe you know what he found in there and so
on one of the things he describes that one of the main aspects of this facility
was they were making these large 60-foot spheres had some some kind of purpose
didn't know quite what and turned out that was the main aspect of this place
he said that it was made in these crescent-shaped sections then put
together a low thermal epoxy well it turned out that they had developed not a
low thermal epoxy but a low-temperature welding process to build all these
things it was actually a project to test some propulsion for spaceflight it's one
of what it actually was well this is all fine for our clients but you know we
weren't getting very far and getting scientific data that we can analyze
ourselves because you know they take the data way into the disappears into a
black hole and we don't get all that much feedback so we decided but we
should do experiments of our own over long distances gather our own data and I
can show you hundreds of those but actually what I'm going to show you are
a couple of experiments that show that despite what you may think and despite what many critics think it is not the
case that people describe what they think is probably at the site I will
show you two examples a good examples where the interviewer and the viewer were certain they were wrong tried to
erase what they were getting couldn't finally put it down knowing they're
wrong and it turned out they're right
by the way this is all done not because we were attempting to develop psychic
spying and begin with but basically to evaluate are we subject to a threat by
potential adversaries and so many of our documents have titles like threat
Technology Assessment well this is an experiment in which I was in San Jose Costa Rica's the outbound experimenter
each day I would go to a different side and agreed-upon time but in the middle
of the series I had a chance to do a trick to jump on a plane fly out of
Costa Rica land on this island just in time for the experiment the poor remote
viewer is saying well I've got a problem here I see him in Airport he shouldn't
be in an airport not only that but I see ocean at the end
of the runway and I know he's 100 miles from the ocean let me see if I can block
this out and it just keeps coming back I just guess I'm going to have to agree
that I'm wrong and just put it down in fact that's exactly where I was now
turns out there's an extra little interesting aspect to this experiment
the remote viewer the supposed to the experiment didn't show up that day and
so Russell Targ who was the interviewer actually was the remote viewer to the
Divis experiment a second experiment I was the interviewer Russell was running
around the United States going to different cities and of course I didn't
know where he was and these are all double-blind experiments and I'm
interviewing the remote viewer and he's sitting there he's not saying anything
he said well what are you getting he says I'm not going to tell you
I said what do you mean you're not gonna tell me you know I mean this is an
experiment you've got to tell me is what I'm getting is so ridiculous it can't be
right so I don't want to tell you excited
remind him is an expensive experiment so if I said okay you really want to know
what I see no of course I see a big flying saucer sitting in the middle of a
city say well I see your problem but
turned out that this where Russell was was a Louisiana Superdome and of course
once he began to draw it it became clear that well it wasn't exactly a flying
saucer me as glass sides and so on so again these are two examples where the
remote viewer and the interviewer just didn't think it could be possible and yet nonetheless though there were
matches another reason we were doing these long distance experiments was that
the Russians had published the paper saying well they thought it was low-frequency brain wave stuff and
therefore were longer longer distances that should degrade so that's why we
wanted to do long distance experiments but we didn't really see any degradation
here we had another opportunity though because another aspect is that if it
were low frequency brain waves you can't get shielding against that very well in a shielded room but if you put somebody
in a submarine and sink them in the ocean that'll work but you know we
didn't think there's any chance for us to do something like that well as it
turns out our conference host Stephen Schwartz had been pursuing a parallel
path since his Navy days about remote viewing and he was carrying out various
experiments and specifically interested in looking at this low-frequency aspect
because in fact project sanguine was a big issue back in those days to try to communicate to submarines and you can
only use low-frequency waves to do it so there's a question of how deep could
your submersible go and so on so as it turns out Stephen had arranged through
some friends of is to get access to this submersible
built by heiko company and so we merged our projects together and said okay well
let's let's collaborate on this because we're very interested in following up in
this hypothesis also so two of our remote viewers Ingo Swann and hella
Hamid were the remote viewers to go on the submarine get submerged in the ocean where it was deep enough 60 DB for the
engineers in the crown that if in fact it was low-frequency brainwaves they
probably would be snuffed out with that much water we had a chance to do a
couple of experiments in goes experiment when he was onboard the submarine the site that was chosen turned out to end
up being a very upscale shopping mall that inside the shopping mall had water
wheel and water running and lots of vegetation and so on and basically INGOs
description describes just this kind of place even notices the pool of water for
example and the redstone flooring which if you had color pictures here you could
tell now there's another element of this we
were looking to see if you could communicate messages to submarines so
you might think you want to go to your chalkboard and write down submerge or
fire missiles or well that's too analytical so what you could do is take
a whole series of cards write down a whole series of sites turn the cards
over and write down the message you want to get across and then when a remote
viewer does remote viewing then you hand in the card series down the list and
says well that's that's the one I think I saw then you turn it over and you can
see the message while Swann was able to pick out among the set the correct match
so we were able to send a message hello Hamid despite being seasick
also did really very well as it turns out this was kind of a nothing site in a
way I mean it was an oak tree up on a hillside which she described and so to
give it a l'action I kind of jumped around in the branches she says well I
see how cavorting about in a very unscientific like fashion and again when
she was presented with the list of potential sites she had no problem
picking out the right one and therefore getting the message well this seemed definitely to shoot
down the electromagnetic hypothesis very grateful for the Steven for having
provided this opportunity and then he went on and he'll probably describe it
to do some remote viewing of underwater archaeological sites with them trying to
find some submerge in this case shipwrecks and so on so still we want to
press the limits another feature of the idea that it might be low-frequency
brain ways would be that if you've got the smaller and smaller targets it would
be hard and harder because you wouldn't have the resolution you needed so we
dropped down from outdoor sites to smaller laboratory equipment sites we
had the typewriter a couple of times Ingo got this hella drew that by now
they've gotten sophisticated enough to know they shouldn't try to interpret
what it is they're seeing they just put down what they thought they saw and they
both came up with some kind of keyboard instruments but they didn't label it as
a typewriter but of course that that was good enough in this case the computer
room was the target hella drew a very good description of this it even has
this alongside although he can't see in the picture again though when we asked her what she thought it was she thought
well maybe it was a washing machine so again the analysis doesn't quite go so
we we figure out the his right brain left brain functioning
and so on and this is mostly a right hemispheric kind of phenomena meanwhile
scam Buster is there doing experiment he's even trying to figure out the brand
name of the television movi he's not perfect you got it wrong he thought it
was a Texas Instrument silence 700 it was another brand but still he did
alright she then decided let's go to microdots one millimeter by one
millimeter pictures hello Hamid was the remote viewer for
this series so the first microdot was of a ski resort so she says you know Laura
white large area could be a mound Mountain encircled by highways
snow-covered hillock white mountain with mines natural but it was used and
adapted and fitted out with some machinery which is about as good a
description as you can get the microdot of the hand she came up with lots of
earth colors Brown you know can wonder about that I mean these micro dots are sealed up and there's not any light in
there but anyway we're getting colors again she can't tell that it's a hand
but she definitely has five protrusions coming out of out of a mass and so she
did several in this series in the entire series was judged and turned out to be statistically significant so in our mind
that's pretty much ruled out the electromagnetic hypothesis so a lot of
people have asked well what have we learned about how this works well what
we've learned so far is all the ways it can't explain it
I guess that's progress another element we wanted to check out though was what happens I mean instead of half our
experiments or whatever you let somebody work on something like this
for a whole day do they tire does it sort of dissipate or can you keep my
target for a whole day because for operational cases you really wanted to
do that it also turned out along the way that it was discovered that even though
you think the information might come in visually typically it doesn't actually the visual part is usually imagination
it tends to come in what we call kinesthetically
you get a feeling for what the site is and the feeling for the shapes and
eventually those feelings will result in pictures but if you get pictures
immediately usually it's often it's not correct
so one of the techniques we used along the way was to do clay models so in this
particular case a day-long experiment involved Ingo Swann as the remote viewer
the target was a Sylvania manufacturing facility ten or fifteen miles away and
so his first thing was to build a clay model he says well there's kind of funny
round building here on the right he built in this squarish building with
some arches and he had this diagonal thing in the back it turns out there was
a diagonal greenhouse back there so I I'm the interviewer in this case and
it's okay well tell me about this and so he does his best to draw it out 85 feet
by 30 feet which you realize that's really too small the word aerator came
to mind I know that's sort of like a floor Freudian slip I mean it's not an aerator but it is an air inflated
building as he's drawing it he says I know this sounds strange but the building is blowing up and getting
bigger and bigger I mean it wasn't at the time but of course that's how they construct this
building so you're all getting bigger and bigger and he made another drawing and it's more to scale to what it
actually looks like so I'd say okay well that's about as much as that so tell me
about this building so redraws this as he's drawing it he says you know this
isn't exactly right I've got round arches here but I think they're more
squared which of course they are he then redraws it by the way as the
left/right reversals we often see the antennas on the right he has it on the
left so I say well Kay tell me what's going on inside the building so he draws
a path to go in and he says well it's something they're building it's about
the size of an automobile it's got gases running into it I see
what looks like flames leaping off in segmented sections and what in fact it
was was a carbon dioxide laser high-power
infrared laser it does have segmented sections there is plasma discharge that
in fact does look like flames we asked him what he thought it was he said well if I had to guess if I had to try to
figure I think it's a crematorium of course it isn't we took him to see it
and by the way when it's running there's a Plexiglas top and a mirror here and
you look down and look like flames in there and they are segmented off and it
does have gas coming into it his only comment was I expect me to know what
this is remote viewing I don't even know what it is when I'm looking at
along the way people have said well have you ever done anything in remote viewing that actually may have made a difference
may have contributed to something I like to give a couple examples of that when
during the Carter Administration it was being considered that we should have what was called the MX missile system
the shell game and have a series of silos and trains we're going to run the
missiles around from one silo to the next and that was going to be the big
deal so we said oh that sounds like a job for
our V man so we arranged to collaborate with actually Charlie tart in this case
I know this is a complex view graph and you don't have to pay attention to
hardly any of it the only thing I want you to notice is
that there are 12 graphs here and each time you see something going up the top
so what we did was we simulated this result or this kind of a system that is
we had a monitor ten circles a random number generator would say which was the
hot circle of course not display it and the remote viewer would have to push a
key to say which one they thought it was and then we did a lot of statistical
averaging to see how it all came out make a long story short twelve times in
a row odds of one in a trillion we got the hidden missile silo in the
simulation and there were no mistakes so we forwarded that and as it turns out
at that time we were working directly for some people in National Security
Council and they told Carter about this and eventually the program was scrapped
I don't know that was scrapped because of this but certainly this was one of
the inputs to whatever other considerations they had so it may have
had some influence a second experiment where we know we had
influence was during the Iranian hostage crisis during the Carter Administration every now and then Ayatollah Khomeini
would say oh we're going to release a hostage so everybody get all excited
that gear up they'd send a medical team over to Frankfurt they'd wait and
nothing would happen no one would get released so after that happened several
times the White House position was just sort of ho-hum and so once again turned
out Khomeini said I'm going to release a hostage well they were going to pay
attention to that but since we're working directly for somebody in their Security Council and they heard about
this they decided to see what the remote viewers might say and so we were asked
to give a profile on an individual this is a kind of thing that we often did we
had no idea that had anything to do with a hostage crisis usually when they ask
us to do that it was about some head of state these were always done blind so
anyway we did the experiment one of our one of our remote viewers Keith arari first he came up with a physical
description and it turned out to match one of the hostages very precisely he then gave a psychological profile which
turned out to match the hostage that eventually was released very well and he
also gave a medical condition medical profile and just as a sort of an
afterthought an experiment the remote viewers said well this guy is really
sick he's so sick and yet I see him on a plane when she'd be in a hospital in a
couple of days he practically dies from the vertigo looking out the window so
anyway we forwarded that based on that the White House decided that they would
send a team over because that this data seemed to be pretty good and in fact
hostage Richard Queen was released he had
multiple sclerosis that was being exacerbated by the stress and so he did get released eventually
the National Security Council guy sat down with hostage Queen to debrief him
and he said well I have a source here I can't reveal but I just want to read
this transcript and you tell me how accurate it is because I'm trying to evaluate them and so as he started
reading down this list queen got more and more irate finally he leaped out of
his chair and he said the only reason the only way you could have known that
data was if my guard was your source if that's the case why didn't get me out
there sooner but what do people really think about this CIA finally admitted that they were doing this the army chief
of staff for intelligence for the army heard a briefing by us and decide to set
up a small in-house program with army intelligence officers as remote viewers
and you'll be hearing from several of them actually are a couple of them doing
this conference this was a great experiment that we were successful with
which we thought and we're told would never see the light of day but it just
turned out that after Carter left office he was giving a speech to college crowd
in in Georgia and somebody said well whatever happened in your administration
that you think was like really unexpected and strange he said well you
know we lost a plane in Zaire and CIA directors Turner Stansfield Turner turned a remote viewer
and she said where it was and we went in and we got it so this was great
they went in on the basis of what the remoter said and as they got there to
remote viewers working on this out we're coming Natives carrying pieces of the
wreckage of course we're trying to get to it the Russians are trying to get to
it but we got there first in this case helped by remote yours
the American Institute's a report on Stargate finally fessed up to the fact
that even from just 1986 to 1995 the more more than 200 tasks of operation
remote viewing by military organization required that were requested remote
viewing help and they were generating data at this time there's also
controversy about what was this stuff really good was it helping was it not helping etcetera this is about the time
that the Cold War ended and things were winding down and so joe mcmoneagle
released the content of his legion of merit award in which he which he got for
providing over 150 essential elements of information reporting the Joint Chiefs
of Staff dia NSA CIA and Secret Service producing crucial and vital intelligence unavailable from any other source well
our people still interested they are still interested even though the program
as a large high-profile program has gone down just recently this is a summer of what 2000 2001 the Journal of US
intelligence studies wanted to run some a reprieve on the remote viewing work
and so they reprinted an article I had written earlier because there was such
interest not too long after that I was approached by a Navy SEAL who's writing
a thesis at the marine War College and he decided he wanted to write a thesis on the development of remote viewing in
the military intelligence community and why we should get it going again and so
he wrote a very strong thesis we were able to put him in touch with previous contract monitors and
program directors and so that's circulating around the system of course
this is all kind of heavier whatever there's also a light side to remote
viewing about this time my wife and I were providing funding getting together
funding for a private Grammar School and one of our funders dropped out the last
minute we were twenty five thousand dollars short so we went to a potential
funder a wealthy dentist and said you know we could you help us out with the school they said I know your name you
have that ESP program right I said yeah he said we'll tell you what I'm not
going to give you money but I do silver futures and if your people can tell me
what's happening in silver futures I will bet on what they say and you'll get
10% of what I make so if it works you'll get money it doesn't work you don't get any money well we were desperate so I
could really use the train remote viewer so I went to the board of directors of
the school and I said you know we have this year-long training program I'm
going to give you a two day training program and you're all going to become
remote viewers overnight now you might think that what I'm going to do is say
okay now that you can remove you tell me it's over futures going up is it going
down well that's the wrong question to ask too analytical depends what the read the newspaper is bla bla bla bla bla but
what remote viewers can do is describe an object you put in their hand the next
day to some degree so for example in a given day I might decide okay depending what the market does tomorrow if it goes
up I'll give them an apple if it goes down I'll give them a pencil and then I
just say of course they don't tell them what the objects are I just say I'm
going to give you something tomorrow depending what the market does what does
it look like now this what I'm telling you now you can actually go home and use
so it really works and so they say well I know it's round and red like a ball I say well that's probably more like the
Apple well I suppose it could be the eraser on the end of the
so it's probably more like the Apple and so I'll bet on on that and then they get
feedback the next day and then we do it again with different objects to give an
example of course you pick objects that look as different as they could possibly
be this is a wooden figurine very aesthetic here's a tape measure
depending where the markets going I'm gonna go show going to show them one or
the other as it turns out in this particular case the tape measure was the
object that actually matched the market
one of the viewers says I hear the words one two three said rhythmically there's
something all wound up the other person says it looks like a tin can it's got something else squirrel up inside so
naturally I'm going to pick the tape measure over the figurine as it turns
out in this case it's it's good by the way nice thing about this technique
which are called KRV Association remote viewing is that if
some of the people give responses that don't match either one you can just
throw those in trash and not worry about
my favorite scientific graph is money in the bank we went into the market for 30 days made $26,000
of course the dentist made $260,000 so this actually has practical outcomes and
this this was this was also partly in response to another skeptic who said
well if these people are so psyche quiet they rich wanted to go to Las Vegas one
of the in the stock market uh you know which they actually they do do but they
don't advertise it so anyway this this this was our proof that you know it can happen it can work so where are we in
scientific community we have people like astrophysicists worried about the stars
we have biologists worried about the trees and the soil and so on but you
know there's always going to be some percentage of renegade physicists like
myself and my colleagues who always want to probe deeper look behind the scenes
see what's really going on explore new territories and that's how we ended up
getting involved in such a long and from my standpoint very productive program
thank you very much