JUDY WOODRUFF: Good evening. I'm Judy Woodruff.
On the "NewsHour" tonight: a reckoning on race. The U.S. grapples with what to do with
Confederate monuments, as the calls for overdue justice grow louder.
Then: new voices. Members of Generation Z discuss coming of age in tumultuous times
of protests and a pandemic.
THANDIWE ABDULLAH, Co-Founder, Black Lives Matter Los Angeles Youth Vanguard: We are
the generation that says no more. And I think that we will be the generation that really
revolutionizes this world and transforms the world for the better.
JUDY WOODRUFF: Plus, it's Friday. Mark Shields and David Brooks consider whether a political
shift is under way over race and the role of police, along with the latest moves in
the race for president.
All that and more on tonight's "PBS NewsHour."
(BREAK)
JUDY WOODRUFF: The drive to reform policing in America is gaining more momentum. New York
state moved today to ban choke holds and to release police disciplinary records.
Governor Andrew Cuomo signed the changes into law in Albany. He also said he will tie state
funding to local action.
GOV. ANDREW CUOMO (D-NY): We're not going to fund police agencies in this state that
do not look at what has -- look at what has been happening, come to terms with it, and
reform themselves. We're not going to be, as a state government, subsidizing improper
police tactics. We're not doing it.
JUDY WOODRUFF: Meanwhile, Louisville, Kentucky's City Council enacted Breonna's law banning
no-knock warrants. It is named for Breonna Taylor, who was killed by police inside her
home.
And President Trump said that he would favor ending police use of choke holds, except in
limited circumstances. He also demanded again that the city of Seattle end the occupation
of its Capitol Hill neighborhood by protesters.
In the presidential campaign, Mr. Trump defended his plan for a campaign rally on June 19th
in Tulsa, Oklahoma. The day is known as Juneteenth and commemorates the end of slavery. And Tulsa
was the site of a white-on-black massacre in 1921.
But, in a FOX News interview, the president dismissed the criticism.
DONALD TRUMP, President of the United States: You can really think about that very positively
as a celebration, because a rally, to me, is a celebration.
It's going to be really a celebration. And it's an interesting date. It wasn't done for
that reason, but it's an interesting date, but it's a celebration.
JUDY WOODRUFF: Mr. Trump also plans to accept the Republican renomination for president
in Jacksonville, Florida, on August 27. On that date in 1960, a white mob attacked black
protesters in Jacksonville, an incident now known as Ax Handle Saturday.
A federal appeals court in Washington heard arguments today over ending the prosecution
of Michael Flynn. The Justice Department wants to drop charges against President Trump's
former national security adviser. He pled guilty to lying to the FBI in the Russia probe,
and then tried to withdraw the plea.
More U.S. businesses got the green light to reopen today, from bars in Iowa and wineries
in Northern California to the San Diego Zoo. But Utah and Oregon delayed further action,
as COVID-19 infections keep growing.
Still, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention said that is not yet clear what's
causing the resurgence. Officials cited several possible factors during a teleconference.
JAY C. BUTLER, Centers for Disease Control and Prevention: Sometimes, an increase is
driven by increased availability of testing. Sometimes, it's driven by outbreaks. And we
have seen outbreaks in certain occupational settings, in long-term care facilities. Early
on, we saw clusters of infections in shelters for people experiencing homelessness.
JUDY WOODRUFF: The CDC also posted guidelines that had been expected for weeks. They range
from avoiding elevators to safely attending concerts. They do not address such issues
as going to church or dating.
New protests erupted in Hong Kong today, marking one year since a violent clash with police.
Thousands of people demonstrated at busy shopping malls. They carried banners and chanted slogans
calling for Hong Kong's independence. Riot police stood by, and there was no word of
violence.
The prime minister of Lebanon held emergency cabinet talks today, and the central bank
agreed to try to shore up the economy amid nationwide protests. Beirut woke this morning
to streets covered in shattered glass and broken storefronts after clashes between demonstrators
and security forces.
Back in this country, the Trump administration formally ended protections for transgender
people against discrimination in health care. The final rule defines gender as a person's
biological sex. An Obama era rule defined it as an internal sense of being male, female
or some combination.
And Wall Street managed a partial comeback from Thursday's rout. The Dow Jones industrial
average gained 477 points to close at 25605. The Nasdaq rose 96 points, and the S&P 500
added 39. Even so, it was the worst weekly loss since late March.
Still to come on the "NewsHour": an interview with the only black professional NASCAR driver,
as the U.S. grapples with its racial history; members of Generation Z discuss coming of
age in tumultuous times of protests and a pandemic; Mark Shields and David Brooks examine
a critical moment
in America; plus, much more.
More than 150 years after the Civil War, monuments, schools and roads across the country still
honor Confederate generals and leaders.
But in the midst of the recent protests demanding racial equality, there is a renewed push to
take down the monuments.
In a moment, Amna Nawaz will talk to the man who lead the drive to have NASCAR ban Confederate
Flags.
But, first, Lisa Desjardins looks at how the death of George Floyd has prompted louder
calls to remove public symbols of the Confederacy.
LISA DESJARDINS: It is perhaps the greatest dismantling of the Confederacy since the Civil
War, in Richmond, Virginia...
PROTESTERS: Hands up, don't shoot!
LISA DESJARDINS: ... in Birmingham, Alabama, Confederate statues removed or protests demanding
their removal.
New Orleans.
WOMAN: New Orleans is going to bring the movement forward.
LISA DESJARDINS: Jacksonville, Florida.
PROTESTERS: Black lives matter!
LISA DESJARDINS: Across the country, it is a direct extension of the protests against
racism after George Floyd's death.
LECIA BROOKS, Southern Poverty Law Center: I think what's happening right now in the
present moment is that people are really beginning to understand what we mean by the structures
of white supremacy.
LISA DESJARDINS: While some argue the monuments honor Southern ancestors, Lecia Brooks of
the Southern Poverty Law Center says most went up either early in the 20th century or
during the civil rights era, as racist groups like the Ku Klux Klan flexed their muscle.
Some have come down before, like the Confederate Flag off South Carolina Statehouse grounds
following the murder of nine African-Americans in a Charleston church in 2015, and statues
removed after a white nationalist rally in Charlottesville in 2017.
But Brooks senses something different now.
LECIA BROOKS: I think we're in a -- in the midst of a real inflection point. I have never
seen so -- such a multi-breadth racial, multiethnic coalition of protesters demanding an end to
anti-black racism.
LISA DESJARDINS: For some, the monuments are an important start.
MICHELLE SEWELL: You were traitors. You attempted to secede from the Union, then had the audacity
to lose and then put up monuments of your loss? I don't -- that feels like a great lie.
And racism is what has allowed it to be a lie.
JOHN JONES: For me, a lot of these monuments represent times that members of my family
and my culture and my race have suffered.
MICHAEL FERRARA: By removing these statues, it's going to give people an opportunity to
really reexamine the history of the Civil War and Reconstruction and Jim Crow and all
that went with it.
LISA DESJARDINS: According the Southern Poverty Law Center, at least 1,800 sites across the
country commemorate the Confederacy, either with a monument or place name, among them,
10 military bases named for Confederate officers, including Fort Bragg in North Carolina and
Fort Hood in Texas.
Defense Secretary Esper has signalled he's open to changing those names. Retired Army
Colonel Mike Jason wrote an op-ed to Pentagon leaders this week.
COL. MIKE JASON (RET.), U.S. Army: I have seen the e-mails and the paperwork. I have
spoke to commanders and peers and colleagues, and they're ready to make this happen. They're
talking to soldiers. They're generating options and alternatives. Great men and women have
served this country, and they're excited to do this.
LISA DESJARDINS: But President Trump himself has vehemently pushed back, tweeting, "These
bases are part of great American heritage," and his administration would not even consider
renaming them.
But this week the Senate Armed Services Committee, led by Republicans, voted behind closed doors
to require renaming those bases within three years.
Mike Rounds, Republican of South Dakota:
SEN. MIKE ROUNDS (R-SD): We don't want to forget what's happened in the past. But, at
the same time, that doesn't mean that we should continue with those bases with the names of
individuals who fought against our country.
LISA DESJARDINS: But Congress faces an issue under its own roof about the statues in the
U.S. Capitol itself. Eleven statues memorialize Confederate leaders, including Confederate
President Jefferson Davis and Confederate General Joseph Wheeler standing just a few
feet away from a plaque marking the spot of Abraham Lincoln's desk in Congress.
House Speaker Pelosi this week asked for Congress to now take all the Confederate statues off
display.
REP. NANCY PELOSI (D-CA): Can you imagine Jefferson Davis, Alexander Stephens, treason
- - they committed treason against the United States of America, and their statues are still
here, because their states put them here.
LISA DESJARDINS: Republican Senator Roy Blunt, who oversees the committee responsible for
the statues, says moving them is possible, but only the states can take them out of the
Capitol. And some states are, like Arkansas, about to replace its controversial statues
with musician Johnny Cash and civil rights activist and journalist Daisy Bates.
It is a cultural turn. NASCAR this week banned the Confederate Flag from its events. The
Navy and Marine Corps have also just banned the flag.
But some worry this is a slippery slope toward the removal of monuments to founding fathers,
many of whom were slave owners. Others say the country needs to be more educated about
its racist past.
CATHERINE STRINGFELLOW: I don't agree with the wholesale removal of everything that pertains
to the Confederacy, because we need to understand what our history is. It's that we don't need
things that glorify that history.
REBECCA PHOENIX: They need to be put in a historical context that they're not being
put into. And there's so much work and healing to be done in this country. It's just -- it's
really not possible when you have people worshiping these symbols of oppression.
LISA DESJARDINS: The Confederacy survived for only four years, but it has shaped discrimination
and divide for generations since, now, again, a test of how long its symbols will stand.
For the "PBS NewsHour," I'm Lisa Desjardins.
AMNA NAWAZ: Now for NASCAR.
The decision to ban the Confederate Flag represents a major shift. The flag has long been a hard-to-miss
presence at races. This photo shows some flying at a Homestead-Miami Speedway. This was back
in 2018.
Now, the driving force this week pushing for the ban has been Bubba Wallace, a driver in
NASCAR's top series who's been elevating the issue of racial equality in that community.
At recent races, he's worn shirts with the message "I can't breathe." And Wednesday evening,
he raced 500 laps in a car sporting a special Black Lives Matter paint scheme.
NASCAR driver Bubba Wallace joins us now.
Bubba, thanks for making the time, and welcome to the "NewsHour."
I want to ask you about this decision, because it happened pretty quickly. It seems like,
within days of you making that request, NASCAR said, all-out ban on the flag.
But they have wrestled wit before. I remember, back in 2015, they encouraged fans to stop
bringing the flag, and the fans ignored them. So why do you think they did this ban, an
all-out ban now?
BUBBA WALLACE, NASCAR Driver: Well, good to be talking to you, first of all.
Really, it's something that is -- that needed to be done. Since then, obviously way before
then, we have been trying to get this change going.
And, Dale Jr. said way back then, the flag belongs in history books and museums now.
And I'm proud of NASCAR for stepping up and taking that action to get rid of the flag.
AMNA NAWAZ: Do you think there's something about this time that we find ourselves in
right now that said to them, this is something we have to take; it's not enough to encourage
fans to stop bringing it; we have to just ban it?
BUBBA WALLACE: Yes, for sure.
I had conversations with NASCAR leadership, specifically Steve Phelps, the president,
and talking of how we need it take affirmative action to get rid of the flag immediately
and just do a whole culture shift with the sport.
Our sport has this such bad stigma about us. And I want to show that we can provide so
much more than the histories past and make this about inclusion, diversity, unity, and
coming together as one.
AMNA NAWAZ: So, Bubba, let me ask you about the future of the sport, because it's worth
noting, like a lot of sports ratings, NASCAR has been in decline, right?
Viewership has been going down. Do you think that their concerns about turning away or
alienating potential new fans were part of their decision right now?
BUBBA WALLACE: Actually, the stats we have been getting, the viewership's been going
up.
So, we have -- obviously, all sports have gone down from across all boards, but our
sports teams kind of leading in the forefront. And us being the first sport back after this
COVID-19 pandemic really shows the leadership that we have, and how we can take on what's
new for us and create the new normal for right now.
So, fans are going to start coming back soon. And I'm excited for when it's back to the
old ways of fans being able to just come up and purchase the ticket and enjoy the race,
because that demographic is going to be a lot different than what we have seen in the
past. That's my hope. And I truly believe in that. And the change has started and it's
coming and still in full form.
AMNA NAWAZ: What do you mean by that when you say the future demographic is going to
be different than you have seen in the past?
BUBBA WALLACE: It's just going to be a different face, I feel like.
We have always talked about having a more diverse background, a diverse fan base in
the stands, people of all races and colors going to be there to support their favorite
driver. It doesn't even have to be me, but just being there and enjoying their time,
cheering on their favorite driver, buying their merch, eating -- eating in the concession
stand, just having a good time with the family.
It's a family sport. And we encourage all families to come out and have fun.
AMNA NAWAZ: Bubba, it's worth pointing out to anyone who doesn't know that you're the
first full-time black driver since 1971 in NASCAR.
And you mentioned before that you heard from some first-time racegoers, they came to races,
they saw the flag, and it made them uncomfortable. You didn't want anyone to feel uncomfortable.
But what about you? In all your years participating in what's an overwhelmingly white sport, did
the flag ever make you feel uncomfortable?
BUBBA WALLACE: It didn't.
I always had the mind-set -- and maybe I was blind to it -- of just going out there and
chasing checkered flags. And now being more open and more of a leader on the matter, it's
not about me. It's about the people I'm representing, my fan base.
I want my fans, I encourage my fans to come out to races. And if fans have a problem with
something, then it's -- I feel like it's up to me to stand up for what's right and to
create equality, and make everybody feel comfortable going wherever they are.
That's what's wrong. We're so afraid of stepping outside of our box to enjoy, you know, the
unknowns. And I'm a person that lives life on the edge and has no holdbacks. And I encourage
people to do that as well. But when there are certain things that we can control as
people that's holding a different demographic back, then let's just come together and meet
in the middle and get rid of it.
AMNA NAWAZ: Bubba, I have to ask you, because we're having this conversation after millions
of people watched the video of George Floyd dying.
And you shared recently that you have seen it, that your mom saw it, and that she sent
you a message after that. What was that message?
BUBBA WALLACE: Yes.
She just said, you know, she hopes, she prays that she will never have to see me lying on
the ground saying, "I can't breathe," and that my life matters to her.
So, that was -- that was a pretty impactful message. And that just pushed me to keep doing
the things that I'm doing off the track to change -- change the world.
AMNA NAWAZ: Can I ask you what you first thought when you saw the video?
BUBBA WALLACE: I was -- it was disgusting to see, and I was hurt.
I was hurt for two or three weeks prior to that over the Ahmaud Arbery video, being hunted
down and killed in broad daylight. So, I have been feeling at lot of hurt and pain and anger,
just like the African-American community has.
And so this was the tip of the iceberg, where we're simply tired of trying to peacefully
protest and say something, and nothing happens. So, you see all this chaos and whatnot going
on. We're tired. We're hurting. We're in pain.
The African-American people are trying to speak out and say they want change, and change
is coming.
AMNA NAWAZ: Bubba, very briefly, in the few seconds we have left, there are people who
are going to look at the ban and say: OK, this flag is important to me. It's part of
the heritage. If NASCAR is done with the flag, I'm done with NASCAR.
What would you say to them?
BUBBA WALLACE: It's tough to change the simple-minded people, people that are stuck in their ways
and don't want to adapt to change. That's tough.
But a good friend of mine, Marty Smith of ESPN, said, NASCAR is not closing the door
on you. They're opening the door to many others.
And that stuck out to me. So, it's pretty powerful there.
AMNA NAWAZ: That is Bubba Wallace, a driver for NASCAR, joining us tonight from North
Carolina.
Bubba, thank you so much for making the time.
BUBBA WALLACE: Yes. Thanks.
JUDY WOODRUFF: America's youngest labeled generation, known as Gen Z, those born in
the late 1990s and early 2000s, enters adulthood as the nation grapples with systemic inequities
in our institutions, from policing to health care.
The "NewsHour"'s Student Reporting Labs, our journalism program for high school students,
spoke to teens across the country about how they see this moment.
CORIE MCCOWIN, Nebraska: A lot of times, you hear people say, oh, all lives matter, when
they try to counter the Black Lives Matter movement.
So, my question for the people who say this: When will there be equal opportunity in America
for all races?
YEONSEO SEOK, California: How are we as a country going to eradicate this issue of racism,
when it has been so deeply rooted in our government, our society and the history of America? What
is our next step?
JAILEN LEAVELL, Kentucky: When are we going to see and address health disparities disparities
in education? Can we in a country that is embedded in institutionalized racism for over
400 years? The time is now to create change.
MIAH MOORE-ALEXANDER, Texas: I just wonder, why aren't people more compassionate? Why
aren't people doing more? We're all Americans. We're all people. So, why should I have to
be treated less than?
JUSTIN SYBRON, Texas: I don't want to grow up to have kids, and have them being scared
because of their skin color.
KEVIN MYERS, Virginia: It feels like there are so many people right now who just don't
really bother trying or who don't understand at all.
And, obviously, a white person will never truly understand that. But how do you get
them to just recognize that life is different for black people than white people in this
country? Because it seems like something that so many people are in denial of.
TASHI MATHUIN, Wyoming: I have donated. I sign petitions. I have been posting on my
social media. But I'm wondering what else there is that I can do to support the social
justice movement, because I feel like I need to do more, and I have a responsibility to
take more action, but I don't know how to do that.
HANNAH BRADLEY, Ohio: With all the people who are screaming out for change, will there
be a change? I hope to God there is a change.
ANYIAH CHAMBERS, Wisconsin: To build safer and stronger communities, it's going to take
everyone to combat racism in America. You have to have conversations with your friends,
your family, your colleagues. And it's going to be hard. But the conversations are definitely
worth it.
JUDY WOODRUFF: So, as we're hearing, America's teenagers are asking tough questions. Some
of them are also offering policy solutions.
Stephanie Sy spoke to two young Black Lives Matter organizers about why they're protesting
and their vision for change.
STEPHANIE SY: In the wake of the latest killings of unarmed black men by police, a new crop
of young leaders is emerging.
They're part of Generation Z. And with their bold calls for dismantling traditional policing
and other systems, some say they hold the keys to lasting change.
I'm joined now by two young organizers, 16-year-old Thandiwe Abdullah, co-founder of Black Lives
Matter Los Angeles Youth Vanguard, and 17-year-old Jalen Thompson of O'Fallon, Missouri. Jalen
was one of the lead organizers for his city's protests.
Thank you both so much for being with us.
Jalen, not only did you help to organize the protest in O'Fallon, Missouri, population
88,000, but I understand this was your first protest.
Can you describe what that day was like for you?
JALEN THOMPSON, Activist: For me, it was just very, very surreal, I guess is the best way
to say that.
This has been kind of a breaking point, seeing that we're just now graduating and getting
into the -- leaving into the world. So it's scary to think that this could be us some
day. And that's why we were so happy to see so many people coming together, to kind of
start having this conversation, even in places where it's not often talked about.
STEPHANIE SY: Jalen, there's a picture of you at that protest holding a sign that simply
says, "I Am Human Too," which is a powerful statement.
But another powerful statement is that you were arm in arm with O'Fallon's police chief.
Can you describe what that felt like, especially when so many consider the police to be the
problem?
JALEN THOMPSON: Well, here in O'Fallon, we definitely have a much better relationship
with our police officers than in a lot of other places, and I think that's why we're
working with them to kind of keep the protests safe.
It's not all of the officers that are the problem, but it's the system that they operate
under. They are able to do these things that they do that are sometimes inhuman, basically,
and they're able to get away with a lot of it because of the way that our system works.
And that's why we need to change it.
STEPHANIE SY: Thandiwe Abdullah, you have been organizing in a protest in Los Angeles,
which is one of the places where police have been criticized for how they have handled
protests.
And we have seen numerous videos of police actually being violent toward peaceful protesters
and journalists and even bystanders.
So, I wonder how you read when a police officer is part of a march or takes a knee.
THANDIWE ABDULLAH, Co-Founder, Black Lives Matter Los Angeles Youth Vanguard: I view
this as a systemic problem.
I don't believe in the good cop narrative. I believe that there are good people who decide
to become cops, but, in choosing to do that, I feel you are choosing to join an oppressive
system.
STEPHANIE SY: We have heard two phrases, defund police and abolish police, become popular
in recent weeks. I wonder what you think about the effectiveness of that language.
THANDIWE ABDULLAH: What I think that a lot of people mean when they say defund or abolish
police is, we need to reimagine what safety looks like.
It's not like we don't want need -- that we don't want law enforcement or that we don't
want security for our communities, but we need to reimagine what that looks like.
Someone imagined this world that we live in today. And so I think we need to think about,
you know, really taking the time to think of something different, right? We have imaginations.
Let's use them. Does safety look like community-based security? Does safety look like mental health?
Does it look like affordable housing?
Does it look like the security guard that works at your school? We really need to just
take that time to dream of something better.
JALEN THOMPSON: It's going to be hard.
And just like with all of the defunding the police and kind of reimagining, as she said,
with the police that we need to do, it's going to take a while. And that's why we need to
be involved in the fight as we can be starting now, so that, down the road, in a few years
from now, we're still going to be there.
STEPHANIE SY: Thandiwe, I want to play a short clip of you at one of the protests. Take a
listen.
THANDIWE ABDULLAH: I'm graduating this year.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
THANDIWE ABDULLAH: And the world that I am about to head up into does not want me.
STEPHANIE SY: Absolutely heartbreaking to hear the sentiment that you feel in that video,
Thandiwe.
I wonder if you can talk about how the trauma of continually seeing unarmed black people
shot and killed by police has affected you.
THANDIWE ABDULLAH: We do have to start considering the mental health and emotional toll that
it takes on black people to see these videos constantly on social media and even the news
now.
They don't censor -- I remember when I saw Ahmaud Arbery on the news. Nothing was censored.
It was the complete video of the murder. And it does something to, I think, not only me,
but to a lot of black people, especially considering the generational trauma that a lot of us have
in terms of police brutality and just white supremacy in general.
And so what it feels like is a war on black bodies and black people. And to grow up in
this movement, right, because I have been in this movement since I was very young, and
kind of see all of this unfold time and time and time again, it -- it's heartbreaking.
And it kind of sometimes makes me feel like this world just wasn't meant for my life to
be able to live in.
JALEN THOMPSON: Our school systems, our economic system, the way that our cities are set up,
it's just not -- we are meant to be oppressed. We're meant to not have the same opportunities.
And people who see those opportunities everywhere for everyone are kind of being led by the
system. We're kind of in a circle of police brutality, leading to people feeling hopeless,
leading to kids feeling hopeless in schools, not only because they see those things, but
also because they just don't have the same resources.
So, for me, it's -- I'm hoping that I can kind of be a voice to say that that's something
that we need to focus more on, is not only ending police brutality and kind of rethinking
that, but also rethinking the way that we're sending our young kids into the world, because
a lot of them aren't prepared.
STEPHANIE SY: Thandiwe, there are so many expectations for your generation, Generation
Z. And I wonder whether you have hope that this is the moment that leads to permanent
policy change.
THANDIWE ABDULLAH: Yes, Generation Z, we are fed up. We are the generation that says no
more.
And I think that we will be the generation that really revolutionizes this world and
transforms the world for the better. But, at the same time, on the flip side, it is
kind of a lot to say that the future of this entire world and this nation is resting on
Gen Z's shoulders, when we have barely even made it out of childhood yet.
And I think it is kind of a little bit of an easy way out for a lot of older generations
to be able to say, well, this is on you all, and you have to take over, when, you know,
they're not gone yet. We still need all the help that we can get.
And so I think that it does have to be a balance between letting Gen Z and kind of accepting
that Gen Z will be the change, but also, at the same time, making sure that older generations
are doing their part in making sure that our future is bright as well.
STEPHANIE SY: Jalen Thompson in O'Fallon, Missouri, and Thandiwe Abdullah joining us
from Los Angeles, thank you both so much for sharing your perspectives.
THANDIWE ABDULLAH: Thank you.
JUDY WOODRUFF: Now we turn to the analysis of Shields and Brooks. That's syndicated columnist
Mark Shields and New York Times columnist David Brooks.
Hello to both of you.
And let's talk about the young voices we have been hearing.
David, Generation Z, the youngest generation, we have just heard them say, in effect, we
don't -- in effect, we're not going to take this anymore. We -- things have to change.
Can they make a difference with our help or without it?
DAVID BROOKS: We have to realize how different their mind-set is than those of us in older
generations.
If you ask people my age or people in the Boomer generation or in the Silent Generation,
are most -- are people around you trustworthy, a majority of people in my age group say yes.
If you ask Gen Z, are most people trustworthy, 65 percent say no. If you ask them, are most
people selfish and out for themselves, 73 percent say yes.
And why is that? Because they have been raised in a society that they feel has been untrustworthy.
They have had -- they have seen the financial crisis. They have seen the Trump. They have
seen continued racism, climate change.
And so their sense of alienation and disillusion with society at large is what we just heard.
And so it's a much more radicalized and much more activist generation. And so they're seeing
the world very differently than generations above.
And we see that in every workplace. And so they certainly have the motivation to do a
lot. One thing I think I worry about is a real dislike of hierarchy, of organization,
of authority.
And if -- I don't think, unless -- you can do permanent and institutional change unless
you're willing to build institutions with leaders and hierarchy and authority structures
that will last for year after year. And that's something that's so far been missing from
most of the modern social movements.
JUDY WOODRUFF: Mark, do you hear messages, voices coming from this younger generation
that you think can end up making a difference in the future?
MARK SHIELDS: I sure do, Judy.
As a member, hard as it might be to believe, of the Silent Generation, the generation that
wore T-shirts that were white...
(LAUGHTER)
MARK SHIELDS: ... as (AUDIO GAP) message on them, I stand in awe of their intensity, of
their passion, of their sense of urgency and their sense of justice.
While not disagreeing with David's point, it just -- I think, to hear that sense of
impatience for justice is, frankly, encouraging and even inspiring.
JUDY WOODRUFF: And, David, when you combine them with all the other voices we have been
hearing in recent weeks, whether having to do directly with what happened to George Floyd,
whether it's about police reform, is the political ground shifting?
Do you sense that things are actually going to change around police reform, around, you
know, policies that people are saying we have had enough of?
DAVID BROOKS: Well, there's certainly been a shift in attitudes.
This has been a remarkable week in shifts of attitudes. If you ask people, do you support
the Black Lives Matter, most people said no. And now, by 29 percentage points, they say
yes.
If you ask people, what do you fear more, police violence or the violence of the rioting
and looting, they say, I fear police violence more by 2-1. If you ask people, are black
people treated unfairly and abused unfairly by the police, after Eric Garner was killed
in 2014, only 33 percent said that. Now 58 percent say that.
So, we're seeing dramatic shifts in public opinion as regard to the African-American
experience. And that has been one of the positive developments. I think the second positive
development is just the peaceful protests. The protests have gone more peaceful as they
have gone along, and the protesters have done a better job of quelling violence than the
police.
JUDY WOODRUFF: And so, Mark, when they talk about defund the police or abolish the police,
are these things that could actually happen?
We see Democrats coming forward with all sorts of reform proposals, Republicans holding back.
We think we're going to hear more from Republicans in Congress next week. What do you see as
the real pressures that could lead to change?
MARK SHIELDS: Well, I don't minimize in any way, Judy, the importance of nomenclature
and naming in any political debate.
It is no accident that much of the resistance to the Affordable Care Act was centered around
the term death panels, if you recall, that somehow people were going to be sent off to
meet their maker by some unnamed anonymous medical group who would meet and decide their
fate. Totally unfair, inaccurate, but it's got a lot of traction.
And how you speak -- and that's why I say, defunding the police, does it mean disbanding
the police? Does it mean, in fact, transferring the obligations that police carry today, who
are -- really do carry enormous, awesome responsibilities of dealing with people who are homeless, people
who are on opioids, people with addiction problems with alcohol and drugs.
They really do have enormous responsibility. But if it becomes -- and I am rather cheered
that the Democrats have not gone for the bait in any way. And I think, quite honestly, it's
been a miscalculation the part of the White House on this issue, that, somehow, Donald
Trump could roll back to reelection on a law and order basis.
But I don't in any way minimize that this is a very explosive situation still.
JUDY WOODRUFF: So -- and David, in terms of what really could change, I mean, we're seeing
a willingness to accept, for example, bringing down Confederate monuments, changing the names
of military bases, except for the president, who said he doesn't want to see this happen.
But is it your sense that people are willing - - you mentioned the polls, but does that
- - is that going to lead to legislative change, policy change that will be seen in the African-American
community as something that's meaningful?
DAVID BROOKS: Well, if you use the phrase defund the police, you're not asking for change.
That's -- to me, it's just a terrible slogan. It's counterproductive because it makes everybody
think, I'm going to have no police. That is not what the American people want.
After Ferguson, they asked African-Americans worldwide, Gallup did, do you want a greater
police presence in your neighborhood or less? And right after Ferguson, they want greater
police presence. And that's consistent with poll after poll after poll. People want a
greater police presence, because more police leads to less crime, which leads to less contact,
which leads to less violent encounters, which leads to less incarceration.
People generally like the police, but they want it done differently. And I do think there's
a possibility to get real changes in that. It's interesting how much even small reforms
can make. The communities that have banned the choke holds and strangleholds have seen
dramatic declines in these kinds of abusive things.
Even a city that said that, when there's a chase, the cop running after the person is
not going to be the first one to touch the suspect, somebody else is going to touch the
suspect, that alone sharply reduces the number of violent encounters.
And so these sort of things can be done reasonably easily. The harder thing on the police front
is changing the corporate culture. We have somehow gotten the world where the police
are basically like the military. They go to boot camp like the military. They dress more
like the military.
They have sort of a warrior ethos in some of the departments. And changing that corporate
culture can be done. It's been done in Camden and Newark and other places, but it has to
be done in cities across the country.
JUDY WOODRUFF: And picking up, not just on that, but on the point about a push to get
rid of Confederate symbols, Mark, do you see that happening, where -- I mean, is it -- are
we now at a moment, a turning point, if you will, where the things that people accepted
before are just not going to be accepted anymore?
MARK SHIELDS: I think we are, Judy.
And I think the resistance, strangely enough, is centered right in the White House. I mean,
it's no accident that a Republican Senate committee this week voted to move ahead on
the removal of the names -- of changing the names of American military bases, which were
named, let it be noted, long after the Civil War, but obviously an attempt, just like those
statues were, to reestablish the proper order that existed before the Civil War.
And they were in Southern states. Whether it's Rucker, Alabama, or Hood in Texas, they
were all named for the Confederate generals. And I think what you have on the statues is
an ongoing discussion and movement, including the secretary of defense, a Republican, and
the secretary of the Army, McCarthy, who is a Republican.
And the stoutest resistance is not from the Daughters of the Confederacy, but Donald Trump
in the White House, who said there will be no changes. And I, quite frankly, think this
is a total miscalculation on the part of Donald Trump, the president, and his reelection.
It is not 1968, when Richard Nixon could run to -- and run successfully on law and order.
Richard Nixon was the insurgent. He was the challenger in 1968. The Democrats had been
in power for eight years. There were 110 American cities that had gone up in flames; 16,000
Americans had died in Vietnam that year, and 590,000 Americans were there in an unpopular
war.
I mean, the law and order campaign had a traction and a believability, which it does not now.
And I think, quite frankly, there's a serious mistake that we in the press make, and I have
made it myself. When someone wins an election, he or she is a genius. And someone loses,
they're obviously a dunce.
And we were willing to give Donald Trump all sorts of credit by, he has this intuitive
connection with the American people, he knows what's going on, that that's how we won in
2016, because we didn't see him winning.
And, quite frankly, he got 40, what, 5, 6 percent of the vote, and that's it. And, if
anything, he's getting a lot less now. And I really think it's a miscalculation.
JUDY WOODRUFF: And, finally, David, the president's decision to hold this big campaign rally in
Tulsa, Oklahoma, on June 19, the -- which is the anniversary of the massacre of blacks
in that city, coupled with the convention, half the convention in Jacksonville, Florida,
what do we make of this?
DAVID BROOKS: A couple of weeks ago, we talked about Trump talking about Henry Ford, and
I gave Trump the benefit of the doubt, thinking he didn't know -- he was ignorant of Henry
Ford's racist ideas.
Well, I was wrong about that. He had a full familiarity. He -- when it comes to that kind
of thing, he has a Ph.D.
And so I assume Donald Trump knows what June 19 is. And I assume that, in the gigantic
advance team that it takes to put a convention together, there's somebody who knows what
June 19 was. And somebody knows what Tulsa means.
And so I have to think that -- and even if they didn't know, they know now, and they
could make a change. And so this is just putting a thumb in the eye of basic decency, as far
as I'm concerned.
And you just show respect to your neighbors. How much of this is not -- it's clear. If
your neighbor doesn't like a Confederate Flag that used to represent slavery, then take
it down. If your neighbor doesn't like you hosting a thing on June 19, don't do it. It's
just basic citizenship.
JUDY WOODRUFF: The end of quite a week in American life, in American history.
David Brooks, Mark Shields, thank you both.
As more states push forward with reopening, the coronavirus continues to enact a devastating
toll on families and communities across the country.
We want to again take a moment to remember a few of the remarkable individuals we have
lost.
Hecky Powell was often referred to as the unofficial mayor of Hecky Powell, Illinois.
For 37 years, he ran Hecky's Barbecue. Their famous sauce was created by him and his parents.
Hecky employed kids from all walks of life, and that commitment extended beyond his restaurant,
to his social work, providing opportunities for struggling youth. The 71-year-old was
also a loving father of seven.
Anyone who knew Loretta Dionisio could see she was tough. Loretta fled martial law in
the Philippines in her early 20s and rose to become a graphic designer and creative
director in Orlando, Florida. A cancer survivor, she traveled the world with her husband of
nearly 50 years. The pair were inseparable.
Around her family, Loretta's toughness melted away. They say she was the sweetest person.
Loretta was 68 years old.
Seventy-five-year-old Zoao Makumbi was focused, cerebral, and stern, but his daughter says
he had a soft spot for children, especially his grandkids. Born in the Congo to Angolan
refugees, Zoao led protests in the 1970s for Angolan independence from Portugal. After
moving to the U.S. in the 1980s, Zoao worked as a school psychologist in Washington, D.C.
He was passionate about helping low-income black students overcome trauma and learning
disabilities.
Barry Webber was a renaissance man, a New York City surgeon who could build cars and
computers, and also loved the ballet and classical music. His wife, Harriet, says he was quiet
and mysterious, but confident in the emergency and operating rooms, and a great teacher.
He shared his love for rock climbing with his two boys, Duncan and Michael. Barry was
67 years old.
Marlowe Stoudamire was a Detroit community activist and entrepreneur, most recently working
with the NHL to introduce hockey to urban communities and schools. Marlowe was outgoing,
a devoted advocate for underrepresented individuals.
But family was his priority. He met his wife, Valencia, in biology class when they were
14 years old. He went on to have two children, Shelby (ph) and Ian (ph). Marlowe was 43.
Our hearts go out to the families of all those we have lost and everyone who's lost someone
in this pandemic.
And finally tonight: a lens on America, millions of lenses, and the whole world is watching
in this Race Matters report
Jeffrey Brown looks at the power of the camera to shape and shift perceptions, now and in
the past.
And a warning: This story contains disturbing images.
This report is also part of our ongoing arts and culture series, Canvas.
JEFFREY BROWN: It begins with a brutal act, at once explosively public and painfully private,
all caught on camera.
In the days since the killing of George Floyd, in a world awash with cameras, images of all
kinds have galvanized millions, protesters and police, the Lincoln Memorial under armed
guard, a president, knowing the power of a photo, creating his own, but also creating
a different image that many Americans will never forget of peaceful demonstrators being
forcibly removed.
Indelible images, urgent and immediate, but also part of a long history.
DEBORAH WILLIS, Professor of Photography and Imaging, NYU: The camera has been central,
central in terms of focusing on the issues of the storytelling of the moment.
JEFFREY BROWN: NYU photography historian and curator Deborah Willis.
DEBORAH WILLIS: I see the camera as a visual diary. It is recording the voices and the
images of people who want to make a change. How do we make a change? We have to show the
evidence of what's going on in the community.
JEFFREY BROWN: Evidence through different kinds of images, those of lynchings used by
whites to further terrify the black community, and the brutally beaten body of 14 year old
Emmett Till in his casket in 1955, photos his mother insisted the world should see.
Deborah Willis was one of the millions who did.
DEBORAH WILLIS: I was 7 years old when I first saw the image of Emmett Till in "Jet" magazine.
I will never forget that moment.
To see that moment, to see it also revisited today as a conversation with the unfortunate
death of George Floyd last week -- I'm just getting a little emotional -- but just to
see that connection, it really helped us to remember that we need to make a difference.
JEFFREY BROWN: In the 1960s, the nightly news showed police using water cannon and dogs
against civil rights marchers in Alabama, images direct to the nation's living rooms.
In his art and documentary work, renowned photographer Gordon Parks captured a life
that much of white America wasn't seeing, and images that could have been taken in recent
days.
This is the camera as a kind of tool, as a kind of an advocacy tool?
DEBORAH WILLIS: Gordon Parks said he used the camera as a weapon to show the stories
of injustices.
I see that photographers today are doing the same, that they're using their lenses to capture
moments, to say, we need to make a change, we need to make a difference, because we can't
live like this anymore.
JEFFREY BROWN: Ever since the 1991 beating of Rodney King by Los Angeles police, the
camera having an impact has often been held by an everyday citizen.
More recently, in 2014, a video of the death of Eric Garner in New York gave a further
push to the Black Lives Matter movement. In February, Ahmaud Arbery was shot and killed
while running on a Georgia street. Two months later, after the release of video capturing
the scene, arrests were made.
In May, a black bird-watcher named Christian Cooper taped this Central Park encounter,
in a sense directing his own film.
AMY COOPER, New York: I'm going to tell them there's an African-American man threatening
my life.
CHRISTIAN COOPER, Bird-Watcher: Please tell them whatever you like.
JEFFREY BROWN: He'd asked a white woman to leash her dog, as the law calls for. In this
case, the camera was his protection.
And, of course, social media allows instant dissemination of images to the world.
MARK CLENNON, Editorial Photographer: It's a beautiful thing. For the first time in the
history of mankind, the power of the image has been democratized, right? You don't need
an expensive camera to tell a story, right?
George Floyd, his story was catapulted into the global consciousness from an iPhone.
JEFFREY BROWN: Thirty-two-year-old Mark Clennon is a professional photographer who first gained
a following on Instagram. In recent days, he's been taking part in and photographing
protests in New York.
MARK CLENNON: The camera's a mirror, right?
You go, you break down, you open up a camera, it's a series of lenses and mirrors. It's
my job to just show a mirror to America, what it looks like right now, and, really, as the
holder of that mirror, be as accurate as I can, and really show that this is more than
just a protester. These are real people. These are real humans, real stories.
JEFFREY BROWN: Clennon says he feels a responsibility in all his work, and especially now, to present
a portrait of what it means to be African-American today.
MARK CLENNON: I think it's a responsibility that all black artists have to carry. When
I first go to a protest, you know, my camera is to my side, and I'm just taking in the
gravity of this moment.
I have a three-month-old daughter. And when she's an adult, she's going to say, I was
born in New York City, you know, the epicenter of a global pandemic, and now a loud microphone
for this new movement for justice.
I have broken down crying at multiple protests. I think why some of the images are so strong
and people are looking in my eyes, because they can see tears in my eyes and the top
of my mask is wet, because it feels like, you know, I'm attending a funeral daily.
JEFFREY BROWN: So much of American history was photographed, documented, written about
by white people.
So, how important is it to you to be doing that, documenting what happens now, as a black
man?
MARK CLENNON: I just want to make sure that we have a first-person account.
I want to make sure that the black voice is not left out of this conversation, especially
since we are the center of this conversation. We black Americans are taking ownership of
our stories, right?
We can now educate our peers and educate ourselves as a community. And that is unique. That is
the number one differentiator between now and the original civil rights movement, is
our ability to tell our stories.
JEFFREY BROWN: A still unfolding moment in American history being captured one image
at a time.
For the "PBS NewsHour," I'm Jeffrey Brown.
JUDY WOODRUFF: And before we go, an apology.
I misspoke, saying June 19 was the date of the Tulsa massacre. It was not. It was the
date slavery ended.
And that's the "NewsHour" for tonight. I'm Judy Woodruff.
Thank you, please stay safe, and good night.