Britain destroyed India through looting
expropriation and outright theft all
conducted in a spirit of deep racism and
a moral cynicism a blistering critique
of our colonialist past by man who was
once one of the world's leading
diplomats Shashi Tharoor now an indian
MP he's just published his latest book
on the iniquities of the British Empire
and its themes have echoes today Shashi
Tharoor is one of India's most outspoken
politicians
he's an MP and has been both an
ambassador and an Under Secretary
General of the United Nations in his
latest book in glorious Empire or the
British did to India Turo argues that
the British Empire was more about
Britain than about India the great
symbols of Empire in India such as the
country's rail system were built for the
benefit of the British rather than for
Indian citizens he argues to that
colonialism in India was more akin to
theft often leading to death and
destruction in a post brexit world the
UK is looking to con wealth countries
with whom we have had deep historic ties
for future trading opportunities India
prime amongst them next week's inaugural
meeting of Commonwealth trade ministers
being held in London is testament to
that
in any case two row judges that in trade
talks the UK will have to be open to
discussing allowing more Indian
immigrants in both students and workers
Shashi Tharoor joins us now now I mean
Empire does it mean anything to Indians
anymore not really John I think people
have largely forgotten it and Indians
are very good at forgiving and
forgetting so they're forgotten as well
which is what I object
let them forgive but let them not forget
well of course it still has some
resonance here in the lots and lots of
people wear lots of medals which have
the word Empire in them is that in any
way offensive to you oh no I think you
know that's part of your history you're
entitled to it so is it a British
problem or an Indian problem no I think
it is a British problem first of all
because there is so much historical
amnesia about what the Empire really
entailed the fact that you don't really
teach colonial history in your schools
children doing a-levels in history don't
learn a line of colonial history there's
no real awareness of the atrocities the
fact that Britain financed its
industrial revolution
it's prosperity from the depredations of
empire the fact that Britain came to one
of the richest countries in the world in
the early 18th century and reduced it
after 200 years of plunder to one of the
poorest but you said is really not known
anymore this is difficult stuff because
we're just about to try and do a big
deal with you
what we need to our trade are you going
to hold this against us not at all I
don't really think this is about today's
relations which are between two
sovereign equal countries John I mean we
are economies as big as yours now and as
far as we're concerned I think we don't
need to have a chip on our shoulder when
dealing with you but I think we do need
to be aware of history because as I
often say to young people if you don't
know where you've come from
how will you appreciate where you're
going to what extent do you think India
is even concert conscious of brexit and
its implications or we're very conscious
of it and not least because a lot of
Indian companies who establish
themselves in Britain not just for the
UK market but because it gave them easy
access to Europe while being in an in a
comfortable english-speaking environment
so there's some real questions going on
will they up sticks and move off to
Ireland or somewhere instead some of
these issues are very much there will
they now be the possible free trade
agreement with Britain
well what about immigration because
Indians feel very strongly about that
not least the fact that Indian students
have a real problem getting here to
university and we've raised that issue I
believe in our bilateral contacts for
some time now we're very concerned about
conditions for Indian students as well
as the temporary work permits that many
of them require after their studies to
be able to gain some practical
experiment I see a kind of deal that
which would have to be struck which
would be presumably one which would talk
about movement of free movement of
people to some extent well I mean the
real issue is exactly if you don't
really want a lot of foreigners in this
country what exactly are going to give
India in return for selling your goods
to the Indian market I think you will
need to accept that India strengths are
in providing services in providing
people in providing expert expertise and
in areas like IT and software which is
amongst our strengths and where you can
use all of this but that does mean
opening up to
two human beings coming in here visas
students you're a realist I mean is is a
significant deal possible
I think only if there's real
give-and-take in a negotiation it's just
not going to happen automatically and
certainly not because of any nostalgia
for Empire John really I mean surely we
have a special relationship as mr. Trump
would put it if you keep losing to us
and cricket we probably will consider
that a good special relationship worth
maintaining but no jokes apart I think
there are obvious affinities which will
continue and which are there but they're
not enough trade negotiations are
hard-headed realistic business
propositions and they will have to be
some give and presumably knock down
overnight
know and that probably can't even start
officially until the EU brexit is done
which is still some time away isn't it
it certainly is well a sheeter oh thank
you very much indeed for coming in to
talk to us the book sounds a good a
pretty heavy read in the sense oh no
it's it's light and impassioned I
promise you your readers will in sounds
positively blood-curdling thanks very
much
you