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>> NARRATOR: Tonight━

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>> You'll remember he

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came to the United

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States and was lauded,

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literally, from coast to coast.

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>> NARRATOR: FRONTLINE takes a

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hard look at Saudi Arabia's

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Prince Mohammed Bin Salman.

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>> The Trump White House had

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chosen its Saudi friend and that

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was MBS.

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>> NARRATOR: He was embraced as

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a reformer...

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>> He sold himself,

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he sold his vision.

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>> People were mesmerized.

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>> NARRATOR: ...but there was

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another side.

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>> There were dissidents who

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were tortured.

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>> They want to put them into a

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position where they're

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completely broken and silenced.

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>> Princes and big 

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businesspeople put under 

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constant observation.

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>> He seemed to get more hyper,

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more intense, more committed to

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going after his enemies the more

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powerful he became.

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>> NARRATOR: And then the brutal

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murder of a journalist.

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>> Khashogghi was interrogated,

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tortured and murdered.

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>> Did the regime kill Jamal

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Khashoggi?

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>> NARRATOR: FRONTLINE

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correspondent Martin Smith

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investigates...

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>> Even the president

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said, "This is the

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worst cover-up I've ever seen.”

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>> NARRATOR: Tonight on

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FRONTLINE-

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“The Crown Prince of

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Saudi Arabia”.

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♪ ♪

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(whistle blowing distantly)

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(man speaking Arabic)

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>> MARTIN SMITH: It is December

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2018.

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It's been less than three months

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since the murder and

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dismemberment of journalist

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Jamal Khashoggi.

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But just outside of Riyadh,

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Saudi leaders and some of their

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friends are gathered for a

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celebration.

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(laughter)

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Featured is a big electric-car

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race, intended to showcase the

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kinds of reforms underway here.

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(whistles blowing, horns

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honking)

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I have managed to get

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into the royal box.

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There's Adel al-Jubeir, Saudi

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Arabia's foreign minister at the

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time; Mohammed al-Sheikh, a

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former World Bank lawyer and now

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a minister of state;

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multibillionaire Prince

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al-Waleed bin Talal, among the

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world's richest men.

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And over there is Norman Roule,

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a former senior C.I.A. official.

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He's talking to the world's

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largest private collector of

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Rembrandts, Thomas Kaplan.

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And of course there's

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distinguished royalty-- the

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powerful Mohammed bin Zayed,

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Crown Prince of Abu Dhabi;

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Princess Reema, now Saudi

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Arabia's ambassador to the U.S.;

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His Royal Highness Prince Khalid

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bin Salman, now deputy minister

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of defense; and, his big

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brother, the crown prince

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himself, Mohammed bin Salman.

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>> I hope I will do that, but if

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I do that I would be...

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>> SMITH: I came here to

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understand who he is and where

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he is taking Saudi Arabia.

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I especially wanted to speak to

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him about the Khashoggi murder.

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But we'll come back to that

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later.

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>> Now, no, but in the first we

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have, we have zero...

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>> SMITH: For now, His Royal

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Highness just wants to watch the

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race below.

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>> Second car.

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♪ ♪

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>> SMITH: He wants to put the

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murder behind him.

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♪ ♪

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(horn blows)

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(ship's horn blows)

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♪ ♪

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Much is already known about that

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day last October, when Jamal

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Khashoggi and his fiancée took a

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taxi to the Saudi consulate in

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Istanbul.

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He entered just after 1:00 p.m.

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to pick up some paperwork they

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needed for their wedding.

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But when the office closed and 

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Khashoggi had not 

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emerged, word spread.

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>> Here I was, looking at my

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Twitter feed, and somebody I

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follow, who is close to Jamal,

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saying that Jamal Khashoggi went

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into the Saudi consulate in

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Istanbul and he has, he has not

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gone out.

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And I remember retweeting that

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message, saying, "WTH," what the

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heck?

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>> A prominent Saudi journalist

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disappeared in Instanbul.

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>> Jamal Khashoggi, a Saudi

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Arabian citizen and U.S....

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>> SMITH: At the time, Khashoggi

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was a regular contributor to the

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"Washington Post" and had

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written many pieces critical of

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the crown prince.

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>> He was last seen entering the

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Saudi consulate in Istanbul,

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Turkey.

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>> Jamal Khashoggi hasn't been

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seen since.

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>> I was baffled by the idea

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that he could walk into a

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consulate and disappear.

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I couldn't understand who would

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do that, because even if you

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wanted to kill a dissident, or

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someone that you felt was a

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dissident, why would you do it

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in your own consulate?

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You lose plausible deniability.

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>> The mystery deepens tonight

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over the fate of Jamal

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Khashoggi.

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>> The Saudi government claims

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that Jamal Khashoggi entered the

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consulate and left shortly

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afterwards.

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>> Even among Saudis themselves,

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people were shocked by it.

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He's not a political opposition.

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He didn't ever call for ousting

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the regime.

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So it's something that was...

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very much unprecedented.

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>> A Turkish newspaper claimed

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officials had an audio recording

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of Khashoggi being tortured...

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>> ...and a dozen Saudi agents

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murdered Khashoggi in the

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consulate.

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>> Khashoggi's body was carved

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up into little pieces.

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>> It's one thing to know that

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he'd been kidnapped.

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It was another thing to know not

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only had he been killed, but

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he'd been tortured.

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For anybody that you've known

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for a long time to end that way,

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it just... just didn't seem

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right.

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>> Saudi Arabia is scrambling to

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carry out damage control.

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>> The crown prince himself is

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the principal suspect.

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>> This is a man who we've been

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trying to understand and cope

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with.

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Is he a modernizer or a tyrant?

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>> Prince Mohammed bin Salman is

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now facing greater scrutiny than

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ever before.

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So who is the man in charge of

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Saudi Arabia?

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♪ ♪

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>> SMITH: Our story begins with

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Prince Mohammed's father, Salman

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bin Abdulaziz Al Saud.

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He was born in 1935 and is

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believed to be the 25th son of

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the kingdom's founder.

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He was appointed governor of

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Riyadh at a young age, a

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position he held for almost half

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a century.

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It was a time of extraordinary

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change.

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>> Salman as governor of Riyadh

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literally turned a small desert

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town into a thriving city.

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There were maybe a 100,000

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people living in Riyadh when he

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became governor back in the

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1960s.

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Today it's somewhere around

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seven or eight million people.

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♪ ♪

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>> SMITH: It was during this

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period of growth that young

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Mohammed bin Salman, born in

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1985, grew up.

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But little is known about his

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early years or why his father

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favored him.

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He had many sons.

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He picked this particular son,

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the oldest of his third

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marriage-- Why?

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>> I understand that the crown

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prince and the king have spent

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an awful lot of time together.

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And they have a similar way of

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looking at the world.

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(bin Salman speaking Arabic)

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(applause)

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The king appeared to groom him

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to share his view on issues such

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as corruption, the duties of

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the royal family, and the

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responsibilities to sustain the

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Al Saud kingdom.

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♪ ♪

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>> SMITH: Most young royals

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study abroad at some point.

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Not Prince Mohammed.

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He remained in Riyadh, by his

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father's side, through high

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school and college.

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>> As I understand it, once he

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graduated he was employed by his

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father, working-- and I assume,

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learning from from that work--

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when his father was the

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governor.

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>> Apparently that's what he did

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for some years, was attend all

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of his father's meetings and

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make himself useful.

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>> SMITH: Mohammed's father,

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while governor, had the

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responsibility of settling

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disputes within the royal

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family.

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>> So everybody who had a

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problem with a rival prince or

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had a-a dispute, they will go to

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him.

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And he was known to be very,

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very strict, in terms of

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disciplining princes.

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>> He was known, for instance,

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to discipline people that he

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didn't like, including

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physically slapping people.

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>> He was, according to the

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stories, famous for calling in

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princes who refused to pay bank

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loans and putting them in a

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rather luxurious villa and

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00:10:04,070 --> 00:10:05,204
pressuring them to pay what

289
00:10:05,204 --> 00:10:07,073
they owed, and they did.

290
00:10:07,073 --> 00:10:08,207
>> And everything that was

291
00:10:08,207 --> 00:10:09,475
buried in the closet, he knew

292
00:10:09,475 --> 00:10:10,543
about it.

293
00:10:10,543 --> 00:10:13,012
And he had helped sweep it under

294
00:10:13,012 --> 00:10:15,214
or get rid of it or fix it or

295
00:10:15,214 --> 00:10:16,782
whatever.

296
00:10:16,782 --> 00:10:18,651
Those files, of course, he has

297
00:10:18,651 --> 00:10:20,352
now transferred entirely over to

298
00:10:20,352 --> 00:10:21,821
his son, who has all of that

299
00:10:21,821 --> 00:10:23,589
information going back

300
00:10:23,589 --> 00:10:26,525
literally a half a century.

301
00:10:26,525 --> 00:10:28,327
This gives them enormous

302
00:10:28,327 --> 00:10:30,162
influence within the House of

303
00:10:30,162 --> 00:10:31,997
Saud, because they know every

304
00:10:31,997 --> 00:10:34,767
peccadillo, every fault that

305
00:10:34,767 --> 00:10:36,035
every member of the family has

306
00:10:36,035 --> 00:10:37,103
had.

307
00:10:37,103 --> 00:10:39,371
(indistinct conversation)

308
00:10:39,371 --> 00:10:40,773
>> SMITH: In 2015, upon the

309
00:10:40,773 --> 00:10:42,374
death of his predecessor,

310
00:10:42,374 --> 00:10:45,377
Salman, at age 79, became king.

311
00:10:45,377 --> 00:10:47,413
He acted quickly to move his son

312
00:10:47,413 --> 00:10:49,315
Prince Mohammed into the line of

313
00:10:49,315 --> 00:10:51,951
succession.

314
00:10:51,951 --> 00:10:53,619
First, Prince Muqrin, his

315
00:10:53,619 --> 00:10:55,087
predecessor's choice for crown

316
00:10:55,087 --> 00:10:58,424
prince, was quickly removed.

317
00:10:58,424 --> 00:10:59,892
>> No explanation was ever

318
00:10:59,892 --> 00:11:01,193
offered.

319
00:11:01,193 --> 00:11:03,262
He was just removed and

320
00:11:03,262 --> 00:11:05,064
replaced by the then-deputy

321
00:11:05,064 --> 00:11:06,932
crown prince, Mohammed bin

322
00:11:06,932 --> 00:11:09,401
Nayef.

323
00:11:09,401 --> 00:11:11,103
Mohammed bin Nayef was a known

324
00:11:11,103 --> 00:11:12,872
quantity to the Central

325
00:11:12,872 --> 00:11:15,875
Intelligence Agency, MI6, to

326
00:11:15,875 --> 00:11:17,276
every intelligence service

327
00:11:17,276 --> 00:11:19,111
around the world.

328
00:11:19,111 --> 00:11:20,412
>> SMITH: And MBS is moved up

329
00:11:20,412 --> 00:11:21,447
behind him?

330
00:11:21,447 --> 00:11:24,316
>> Right.

331
00:11:24,316 --> 00:11:25,518
>> SMITH: MBS or, Mohammed bin

332
00:11:25,518 --> 00:11:27,887
Salman, was now second in line

333
00:11:27,887 --> 00:11:29,889
to the throne.

334
00:11:29,889 --> 00:11:32,491
He was 29.

335
00:11:32,491 --> 00:11:33,592
>> The Saudi system is an

336
00:11:33,592 --> 00:11:35,161
absolute monarchy.

337
00:11:35,161 --> 00:11:37,730
The king's will is absolute.

338
00:11:37,730 --> 00:11:40,299
And King Salman decided that MBS

339
00:11:40,299 --> 00:11:44,003
is going to be his successor.

340
00:11:44,003 --> 00:11:45,671
He shared his views, which are

341
00:11:45,671 --> 00:11:46,906
very aggressive, for instance,

342
00:11:46,906 --> 00:11:48,274
on Iran.

343
00:11:48,274 --> 00:11:51,610
He also has a toughness that I

344
00:11:51,610 --> 00:11:53,112
think the king didn't see in

345
00:11:53,112 --> 00:11:53,746
others.

346
00:11:54,146 --> 00:11:55,147
>> SMITH: What do you mean by

347
00:11:55,147 --> 00:11:56,081
toughness?

348
00:11:56,081 --> 00:11:57,750
>> An ability to use coercive

349
00:11:57,750 --> 00:11:59,718
power, if necessary, against

350
00:11:59,718 --> 00:12:01,687
domestic enemies and-and

351
00:12:01,687 --> 00:12:03,055
regional enemies.

352
00:12:03,055 --> 00:12:05,157
I think the king has a view that

353
00:12:05,157 --> 00:12:07,359
Saudi Arabia is a country that

354
00:12:07,359 --> 00:12:09,395
cannot be ruled, you know, with

355
00:12:09,395 --> 00:12:10,830
kid gloves.

356
00:12:10,830 --> 00:12:13,265
♪ ♪

357
00:12:13,265 --> 00:12:14,934
>> SMITH: MBS wasted little time

358
00:12:14,934 --> 00:12:16,135
in putting his toughness on

359
00:12:16,135 --> 00:12:18,771
display.

360
00:12:18,771 --> 00:12:20,072
Freshly appointed minister of

361
00:12:20,072 --> 00:12:21,473
defense, he went on the

362
00:12:21,473 --> 00:12:23,275
offensive in neighboring Yemen.

363
00:12:23,275 --> 00:12:24,944
♪ ♪

364
00:12:29,515 --> 00:12:31,217
>> Allahu Akbar!

365
00:12:31,217 --> 00:12:34,987
(explosion)

366
00:12:34,987 --> 00:12:36,956
>> A new offensive to drive out

367
00:12:36,956 --> 00:12:39,258
Iranian-backed rebels who seized

368
00:12:39,258 --> 00:12:40,926
control of the capital and key

369
00:12:40,926 --> 00:12:42,361
military sites.

370
00:12:42,361 --> 00:12:43,395
>> SMITH: The Houthi rebels in

371
00:12:43,395 --> 00:12:44,630
Yemen were advancing with

372
00:12:44,630 --> 00:12:46,165
support from Saudi Arabia's

373
00:12:46,165 --> 00:12:48,868
archenemy, Iran.

374
00:12:48,868 --> 00:12:52,805
♪ ♪

375
00:12:52,805 --> 00:12:55,040
For MBS, this was an urgent

376
00:12:55,040 --> 00:12:56,609
national-security threat.

377
00:12:56,609 --> 00:12:57,977
>> Officials say the Saudi

378
00:12:57,977 --> 00:13:00,212
campaign was quickly planned,

379
00:13:00,212 --> 00:13:01,780
catching top U.S. military

380
00:13:01,780 --> 00:13:04,016
commanders off-guard.

381
00:13:04,016 --> 00:13:05,050
>> SMITH: He went ahead, giving

382
00:13:05,050 --> 00:13:06,719
the Obama administration little

383
00:13:06,719 --> 00:13:08,220
notice.

384
00:13:08,220 --> 00:13:09,788
>> Suddenly, MBS comes, and he

385
00:13:09,788 --> 00:13:11,891
says, "I'll define our

386
00:13:11,891 --> 00:13:13,292
national-security interests

387
00:13:13,292 --> 00:13:14,627
almost independently."

388
00:13:15,694 --> 00:13:18,430
It's not this risk-averse Saudi

389
00:13:18,430 --> 00:13:20,532
Arabia that we had gotten used

390
00:13:20,532 --> 00:13:21,367
to.

391
00:13:21,834 --> 00:13:23,035
♪ ♪

392
00:13:23,035 --> 00:13:28,607
(explosions, screaming)

393
00:13:28,607 --> 00:13:32,344
(siren blaring)

394
00:13:32,344 --> 00:13:33,345
>> SMITH: Some elders in the

395
00:13:33,345 --> 00:13:34,680
royal family were said to have

396
00:13:34,680 --> 00:13:36,649
opposed the offensive, believing

397
00:13:36,649 --> 00:13:39,885
it was rash-- Crown Prince bin

398
00:13:39,885 --> 00:13:41,887
Nayef among them.

399
00:13:41,887 --> 00:13:43,255
But young Prince Mohammed

400
00:13:43,255 --> 00:13:46,025
prevailed.

401
00:13:46,025 --> 00:13:49,361
It became known as MBS's war.

402
00:13:49,361 --> 00:13:51,330
>> And there was a groundswell

403
00:13:51,330 --> 00:13:52,865
of young Saudis that it was

404
00:13:52,865 --> 00:13:55,134
like, "Go, Mohammed, go."

405
00:13:55,134 --> 00:13:57,136
This is the first time that

406
00:13:57,136 --> 00:13:58,837
Saudi Arabia had ever fought

407
00:13:58,837 --> 00:14:00,239
in a war like this outside of

408
00:14:00,239 --> 00:14:02,408
their own borders.

409
00:14:02,408 --> 00:14:04,410
And it was hugely popular,

410
00:14:04,410 --> 00:14:06,545
because the way that he framed

411
00:14:06,545 --> 00:14:08,480
it was, "Quick, in and out.

412
00:14:08,480 --> 00:14:09,915
We'll fix it, done."

413
00:14:09,915 --> 00:14:12,751
♪ ♪

414
00:14:16,555 --> 00:14:17,856
>> SMITH: Among the most ardent

415
00:14:17,856 --> 00:14:20,192
supporters of the Yemen campaign

416
00:14:20,192 --> 00:14:24,330
was this man.

417
00:14:24,330 --> 00:14:25,631
I, I toast you.

418
00:14:25,631 --> 00:14:26,699
>> Whoa.

419
00:14:26,699 --> 00:14:28,133
>> SMITH: Jamal Khashoggi.

420
00:14:28,133 --> 00:14:29,969
>> It is coffee that roasted

421
00:14:29,969 --> 00:14:34,006
lightly with cardamom.

422
00:14:34,006 --> 00:14:35,107
>> SMITH: Ah, with cardamom.

423
00:14:35,107 --> 00:14:36,542
And when you drink coffee in

424
00:14:36,542 --> 00:14:37,643
Saudi Arabia, where is the

425
00:14:37,643 --> 00:14:38,610
coffee from?

426
00:14:38,610 --> 00:14:39,845
Is it from Africa?

427
00:14:39,845 --> 00:14:41,680
>> Originally from Yemen, Al

428
00:14:41,680 --> 00:14:43,716
Mokha.

429
00:14:43,716 --> 00:14:44,817
>> SMITH: I asked him why the

430
00:14:44,817 --> 00:14:46,151
rush to war in Yemen was

431
00:14:46,151 --> 00:14:48,253
necessary, especially in light

432
00:14:48,253 --> 00:14:50,022
of reports of many civilian

433
00:14:50,022 --> 00:14:51,457
casualties.

434
00:14:51,457 --> 00:14:52,791
>> If Saudi Arabia waited for

435
00:14:52,791 --> 00:14:55,361
Mr. Obama to approve an

436
00:14:55,361 --> 00:14:56,962
intervention in Yemen, Yemen

437
00:14:56,962 --> 00:14:59,064
would have been gone and lost

438
00:14:59,064 --> 00:15:00,332
long time ago.

439
00:15:00,332 --> 00:15:01,700
It would be controlled by the

440
00:15:01,700 --> 00:15:03,168
Iranians and the Houthi.

441
00:15:03,168 --> 00:15:04,203
So we did not wait for Mr.

442
00:15:04,203 --> 00:15:05,304
Obama's approval.

443
00:15:05,304 --> 00:15:06,805
And I think that empowers Saudi

444
00:15:06,805 --> 00:15:07,773
Arabia.

445
00:15:07,773 --> 00:15:08,774
>> SMITH: Is Saudi Arabia

446
00:15:08,774 --> 00:15:10,009
committing human-rights abuses

447
00:15:10,009 --> 00:15:11,410
in its bombing campaign?

448
00:15:11,410 --> 00:15:14,279
>> Look, for Saudi Arabia, it is

449
00:15:14,279 --> 00:15:16,415
a 1939 moment.

450
00:15:16,415 --> 00:15:17,416
>> SMITH: So you're comparing

451
00:15:17,416 --> 00:15:18,550
Iran to Nazi Germany?

452
00:15:18,550 --> 00:15:20,085
>> Yes.

453
00:15:20,085 --> 00:15:21,720
In Saudi Arabia, we are at that

454
00:15:21,720 --> 00:15:22,955
moment.

455
00:15:22,955 --> 00:15:25,257
We either accept Iranian

456
00:15:25,257 --> 00:15:27,926
hegemony, control over Yemen and

457
00:15:27,926 --> 00:15:31,463
over our destiny, or freedom.

458
00:15:33,332 --> 00:15:35,134
>> Let's get more on the Saudi

459
00:15:35,134 --> 00:15:35,901
position.

460
00:15:35,901 --> 00:15:37,469
I'm joined by Jamal Khashoggi.

461
00:15:37,469 --> 00:15:38,771
>> SMITH: At the time, Khashoggi

462
00:15:38,771 --> 00:15:40,039
was not a big critic of the

463
00:15:40,039 --> 00:15:41,140
regime.

464
00:15:41,140 --> 00:15:42,141
>> Jamal Khashoggi, welcome back

465
00:15:42,141 --> 00:15:43,342
to the program.

466
00:15:43,342 --> 00:15:44,510
>> SMITH: He was, for the most

467
00:15:44,510 --> 00:15:47,112
part, a pro-government voice.

468
00:15:47,112 --> 00:15:48,280
>> Jamal was a journalist, an

469
00:15:48,280 --> 00:15:51,083
analyst, but also a client of

470
00:15:51,083 --> 00:15:52,651
the Saudi government.

471
00:15:52,651 --> 00:15:53,652
>> SMITH: An insider?

472
00:15:53,652 --> 00:15:54,653
>> An in... absolutely an

473
00:15:54,653 --> 00:15:55,587
insider.

474
00:15:55,587 --> 00:15:56,655
>> Is Saudi Arabia breaking

475
00:15:56,655 --> 00:15:57,856
diplomatically...

476
00:15:57,856 --> 00:15:58,857
>> He's someone you went to to

477
00:15:58,857 --> 00:15:59,858
understand the politics of the

478
00:15:59,858 --> 00:16:00,859
country.

479
00:16:00,859 --> 00:16:01,660
>> The irony of things that we

480
00:16:01,660 --> 00:16:03,562
are almost in total agreement...

481
00:16:03,562 --> 00:16:04,563
>> To understand the

482
00:16:04,563 --> 00:16:05,998
relationship with Islamism.

483
00:16:05,998 --> 00:16:07,699
>> Blowing up himself, that is

484
00:16:07,699 --> 00:16:09,501
totally absurd in Islam.

485
00:16:09,501 --> 00:16:11,804
>> He had always worked for one

486
00:16:11,804 --> 00:16:13,372
prince or another, was

487
00:16:13,372 --> 00:16:14,773
extremely close to Prince Turki

488
00:16:14,773 --> 00:16:15,974
al-Faisal, for instance.

489
00:16:15,974 --> 00:16:17,176
>> He was spokesman for the

490
00:16:17,176 --> 00:16:18,510
embassy in London and then in

491
00:16:18,510 --> 00:16:20,345
Washington when I was ambassador

492
00:16:20,345 --> 00:16:21,180
in both.

493
00:16:21,180 --> 00:16:22,147
>> SMITH: Right.

494
00:16:22,147 --> 00:16:23,882
Was he ever somebody, did he

495
00:16:23,882 --> 00:16:26,018
complain about the Kingdom?

496
00:16:26,018 --> 00:16:28,287
>> Jamal always had ideas,

497
00:16:28,287 --> 00:16:30,956
and-and he was very-very open

498
00:16:30,956 --> 00:16:31,690
with those ideas.

499
00:16:32,458 --> 00:16:33,926
(Khashoggi and Faisal speaking

500
00:16:33,926 --> 00:16:35,027
Arabic)

501
00:16:41,066 --> 00:16:42,534
He was boisterous.

502
00:16:42,534 --> 00:16:46,839
He had a good sense of humor,

503
00:16:46,839 --> 00:16:48,107
sometimes laughing at himself,

504
00:16:48,107 --> 00:16:50,075
sometimes laughing with others.

505
00:16:50,075 --> 00:16:53,545
And he was a very professional

506
00:16:53,545 --> 00:16:54,880
journalist.

507
00:16:55,447 --> 00:16:56,415
>> Let's get another

508
00:16:56,415 --> 00:16:57,549
perspective, now, from Saudi

509
00:16:57,549 --> 00:17:00,018
journalist Jamal Khashoggi.

510
00:17:00,018 --> 00:17:01,086
>> SMITH: In those days

511
00:17:01,086 --> 00:17:02,387
Khashoggi was especially

512
00:17:02,387 --> 00:17:04,857
enthusiastic about MBS when he

513
00:17:04,857 --> 00:17:06,058
talked about the need for

514
00:17:06,058 --> 00:17:07,025
reform.

515
00:17:07,025 --> 00:17:09,027
>> And he is seen as a savior by

516
00:17:09,027 --> 00:17:10,763
young Saudis and-and by me.

517
00:17:11,597 --> 00:17:12,664
>> The fact that you have a new

518
00:17:12,664 --> 00:17:15,767
king and a young advisor, in the

519
00:17:15,767 --> 00:17:17,669
person of Mohammed bin Salman,

520
00:17:17,669 --> 00:17:19,204
that gave hope to Jamal.

521
00:17:20,172 --> 00:17:21,807
>> SMITH: In 2016, after meeting

522
00:17:21,807 --> 00:17:24,108
with MBS, Khashoggi made a point

523
00:17:24,108 --> 00:17:25,611
of tweeting this.

524
00:17:25,611 --> 00:17:27,079
It's the only photograph we've

525
00:17:27,079 --> 00:17:28,947
seen of the two of them

526
00:17:28,947 --> 00:17:29,782
together.

527
00:17:36,255 --> 00:17:40,826
(boys speaking Arabic, shouting)

528
00:17:40,826 --> 00:17:42,594
I've been coming to Saudi Arabia

529
00:17:42,594 --> 00:17:44,796
for many years.

530
00:17:44,796 --> 00:17:46,365
Over that time I witnessed very

531
00:17:46,365 --> 00:17:47,833
little change.

532
00:17:48,267 --> 00:17:49,735
But in recent years I've been

533
00:17:49,735 --> 00:17:51,570
surprised.

534
00:17:51,570 --> 00:17:54,506
(band playing music)

535
00:17:54,506 --> 00:17:57,009
One night in March 2017, I was

536
00:17:57,009 --> 00:17:59,311
invited to an art studio.

537
00:17:59,311 --> 00:18:02,181
(band continues playing)

538
00:18:02,514 --> 00:18:05,851
(people clapping rhythmically)

539
00:18:05,851 --> 00:18:07,119
Young men were gathered for an

540
00:18:07,119 --> 00:18:09,221
evening of music.

541
00:18:09,221 --> 00:18:11,089
This was unusual in a place like

542
00:18:11,089 --> 00:18:12,958
Riyadh, where performances like

543
00:18:12,958 --> 00:18:15,060
this had long been banned by

544
00:18:15,060 --> 00:18:17,496
Saudi clerics.

545
00:18:17,496 --> 00:18:19,998
(oud playing)

546
00:18:19,998 --> 00:18:21,900
In the past, hosting an evening

547
00:18:21,900 --> 00:18:24,937
like this could lead to arrests.

548
00:18:24,937 --> 00:18:28,273
MBS put an end to that.

549
00:18:28,273 --> 00:18:34,079
(man singing in Arabic)

550
00:18:34,079 --> 00:18:38,283
(singing continues)

551
00:18:38,283 --> 00:18:41,286
(men singing along)

552
00:18:41,286 --> 00:18:44,723
(instruments playing)

553
00:18:47,092 --> 00:18:50,095
(man singing)

554
00:18:50,095 --> 00:18:51,463
Many Saudis knew that the

555
00:18:51,463 --> 00:18:53,398
country needed to change both

556
00:18:53,398 --> 00:18:56,101
culturally and economically.

557
00:18:56,101 --> 00:18:57,669
For years Saudi Arabia has

558
00:18:57,669 --> 00:18:59,404
derived most all of its income

559
00:18:59,404 --> 00:19:00,906
from oil sales.

560
00:19:00,906 --> 00:19:02,274
But oil prices have been

561
00:19:02,274 --> 00:19:04,009
falling, the private sector is

562
00:19:04,009 --> 00:19:06,078
weak, and youth unemployment is

563
00:19:06,078 --> 00:19:07,145
high.

564
00:19:07,145 --> 00:19:10,148
(car horn honking)

565
00:19:10,148 --> 00:19:11,483
>> In Saudi Arabia there was

566
00:19:11,483 --> 00:19:13,919
very little change, the economy

567
00:19:13,919 --> 00:19:15,854
was highly inefficient, women

568
00:19:15,854 --> 00:19:18,156
played no role.

569
00:19:18,156 --> 00:19:19,324
There was a tremendous amount of

570
00:19:19,324 --> 00:19:20,058
corruption.

571
00:19:20,492 --> 00:19:21,627
It was in exactly the sort of

572
00:19:21,627 --> 00:19:23,095
place you would expect if you

573
00:19:23,095 --> 00:19:24,730
had a government run by elderly

574
00:19:24,730 --> 00:19:26,165
men ruling by consensus.

575
00:19:26,665 --> 00:19:29,368
♪ ♪

576
00:19:30,502 --> 00:19:32,337
>> Every single developmental

577
00:19:32,337 --> 00:19:34,573
plan-- and these started in the

578
00:19:34,573 --> 00:19:37,943
late '60s, early '70s-- had two

579
00:19:37,943 --> 00:19:39,745
main sentences in it:

580
00:19:39,745 --> 00:19:41,213
diversing the economy away from

581
00:19:41,213 --> 00:19:43,915
oil and less dependence on oil

582
00:19:43,915 --> 00:19:45,450
revenues for the government.

583
00:19:45,751 --> 00:19:46,818
>> SMITH: It's always been the

584
00:19:46,818 --> 00:19:47,819
case, you've always pushed for

585
00:19:47,819 --> 00:19:48,820
that, and you've never gotten

586
00:19:48,820 --> 00:19:49,521
there.

587
00:19:49,521 --> 00:19:50,555
>> We've always pushed for that,

588
00:19:50,555 --> 00:19:52,057
we've always talked about that.

589
00:19:52,057 --> 00:19:54,026
But we were never able to

590
00:19:54,026 --> 00:19:55,193
achieve that.

591
00:19:55,193 --> 00:19:56,228
This time we were doing

592
00:19:56,228 --> 00:19:57,329
something.

593
00:19:57,329 --> 00:19:59,564
♪ ♪

594
00:19:59,564 --> 00:20:01,166
>> SMITH: The king gave MBS full

595
00:20:01,166 --> 00:20:02,401
rein.

596
00:20:02,401 --> 00:20:04,002
It was ambitious beyond anything

597
00:20:04,002 --> 00:20:05,904
Saudi Arabia had attempted

598
00:20:05,904 --> 00:20:06,738
before.

599
00:20:08,006 --> 00:20:11,476
(bin Salman speaking Arabic):

600
00:20:19,451 --> 00:20:20,752
>> SMITH: MBS's plan was to

601
00:20:20,752 --> 00:20:23,055
import Western technology,

602
00:20:23,055 --> 00:20:25,290
Western entertainment, and to

603
00:20:25,290 --> 00:20:27,259
open up the notoriously closed

604
00:20:27,259 --> 00:20:29,294
Kingdom to become a world-class

605
00:20:29,294 --> 00:20:31,163
tourist destination.

606
00:20:31,163 --> 00:20:34,199
>> The crown prince, he has an

607
00:20:34,199 --> 00:20:36,568
imagination that I have never

608
00:20:36,568 --> 00:20:38,570
experienced anybody with.

609
00:20:38,570 --> 00:20:40,372
I'm about 17 years older

610
00:20:40,372 --> 00:20:42,374
than he is, but I really look

611
00:20:42,374 --> 00:20:43,141
up to him as a leader.

612
00:20:51,750 --> 00:20:54,419
(applause)

613
00:20:54,419 --> 00:20:55,654
>> SMITH: Many who met the young

614
00:20:55,654 --> 00:20:57,222
prince were initially impressed.

615
00:20:57,789 --> 00:20:59,624
>> He was confident,

616
00:20:59,624 --> 00:21:03,128
charismatic, decisive, with a

617
00:21:03,128 --> 00:21:05,530
vision-- not a plan, but a

618
00:21:05,530 --> 00:21:07,999
broad sort of, "There's the

619
00:21:07,999 --> 00:21:09,134
lighthouse, I have to get to."

620
00:21:09,668 --> 00:21:10,435
>> SMITH: You thought he was a

621
00:21:10,435 --> 00:21:11,603
good thing.

622
00:21:11,603 --> 00:21:13,171
>> I thought he was a-a good

623
00:21:13,171 --> 00:21:15,841
thing.

624
00:21:15,841 --> 00:21:17,876
You did say, "I'm dealing with a

625
00:21:17,876 --> 00:21:19,811
different kind of Saudi than

626
00:21:19,811 --> 00:21:23,181
anything I've ever seen."

627
00:21:23,181 --> 00:21:24,383
>> SMITH: Mohammed bin Salman

628
00:21:24,383 --> 00:21:25,717
planned to finance his Vision

629
00:21:25,717 --> 00:21:27,986
2030 by taking Saudi Arabia's

630
00:21:27,986 --> 00:21:30,389
oil giant, Saudi ARAMCO public,

631
00:21:30,389 --> 00:21:31,656
in an I.P.O.

632
00:21:31,656 --> 00:21:32,758
>> The biggest investment banks

633
00:21:32,758 --> 00:21:33,759
in the world have been

634
00:21:33,759 --> 00:21:34,593
salivating over the prospects.

635
00:21:35,460 --> 00:21:39,831
(bin Salman speaking Arabic):

636
00:21:44,503 --> 00:21:46,204
>> SMITH: To expand the economy,

637
00:21:46,204 --> 00:21:47,939
he also needed to introduce some

638
00:21:47,939 --> 00:21:50,609
major social reforms.

639
00:21:50,609 --> 00:21:52,244
>> He stops the religious police

640
00:21:52,244 --> 00:21:54,045
from having the right to arrest

641
00:21:54,045 --> 00:21:57,149
anyone in public for alleged

642
00:21:57,149 --> 00:21:58,884
infringement against public

643
00:21:58,884 --> 00:22:00,118
morality.

644
00:22:00,118 --> 00:22:01,686
Women, for instance, were often

645
00:22:01,686 --> 00:22:02,788
targeted for not being

646
00:22:02,788 --> 00:22:04,156
appropriately dressed.

647
00:22:04,156 --> 00:22:05,157
Religious police can no longer

648
00:22:05,157 --> 00:22:06,158
do anything.

649
00:22:07,292 --> 00:22:08,960
>> Now you go to the malls, and

650
00:22:08,960 --> 00:22:10,328
you're relaxed.

651
00:22:10,328 --> 00:22:12,130
Total segregation that was in

652
00:22:12,130 --> 00:22:14,065
place in this society is

653
00:22:14,065 --> 00:22:16,301
cracking down.

654
00:22:17,068 --> 00:22:19,137
We were hidden, basically, for a

655
00:22:19,137 --> 00:22:20,972
very long time, you know, just

656
00:22:20,972 --> 00:22:23,608
work in very traditional jobs,

657
00:22:23,608 --> 00:22:24,776
and within the family

658
00:22:24,776 --> 00:22:26,311
protection.

659
00:22:26,311 --> 00:22:29,881
So now we're coming out in every

660
00:22:29,881 --> 00:22:30,749
aspect.

661
00:22:30,749 --> 00:22:31,750
>> SMITH: And you credit

662
00:22:31,750 --> 00:22:32,584
Prince Mohammed?

663
00:22:32,584 --> 00:22:33,418
>> For all this.

664
00:22:33,418 --> 00:22:34,453
For all this.

665
00:22:34,453 --> 00:22:35,887
And-and actually King Salman.

666
00:22:37,489 --> 00:22:38,757
>> Reforming the

667
00:22:38,757 --> 00:22:40,759
religious-cultural space,

668
00:22:40,759 --> 00:22:42,994
integrating women-- these are

669
00:22:42,994 --> 00:22:44,396
historic things that leaders

670
00:22:44,396 --> 00:22:45,664
were unable to do over

671
00:22:45,664 --> 00:22:47,532
the last 50 years.

672
00:22:48,767 --> 00:22:50,035
>> SMITH: Out of these changes

673
00:22:50,035 --> 00:22:53,405
would come a new Saudi identity.

674
00:22:53,405 --> 00:22:54,539
>> As they have reined in the

675
00:22:54,539 --> 00:22:56,107
religious police, Mohammed bin

676
00:22:56,107 --> 00:22:57,342
Salman and the people around

677
00:22:57,342 --> 00:23:01,279
him have de-emphasized religion.

678
00:23:01,780 --> 00:23:03,982
And in its place has been this

679
00:23:03,982 --> 00:23:05,750
idea of, that nationalism is

680
00:23:05,750 --> 00:23:07,052
most important.

681
00:23:07,486 --> 00:23:08,987
>> This hyper-nationalist

682
00:23:08,987 --> 00:23:11,423
narrative that Saudi Arabia is

683
00:23:11,423 --> 00:23:12,023
great...

684
00:23:12,757 --> 00:23:14,059
(bin Salman):

685
00:23:17,662 --> 00:23:19,297
>> It is in line of what is

686
00:23:19,297 --> 00:23:21,166
happening around the world.

687
00:23:21,166 --> 00:23:23,235
A new generation of leaders are

688
00:23:23,235 --> 00:23:24,769
using the same language and the

689
00:23:24,769 --> 00:23:25,604
same rhetoric.

690
00:23:46,458 --> 00:23:48,793
(applause, interviewer speaking)

691
00:23:48,793 --> 00:23:50,462
>> SMITH: MBS, not his father

692
00:23:50,462 --> 00:23:52,197
the king or Crown Prince Bin

693
00:23:52,197 --> 00:23:54,366
Nayef, became the emblem of that

694
00:23:54,366 --> 00:23:55,934
new Saudi Arabia both here

695
00:23:55,934 --> 00:23:58,436
and abroad.

696
00:23:58,436 --> 00:24:01,606
(cheering, man speaking Arabic)

697
00:24:03,942 --> 00:24:07,345
(man speaking Arabic)

698
00:24:07,345 --> 00:24:09,180
But all the changes did not mean

699
00:24:09,180 --> 00:24:10,615
that Saudi Arabia would become

700
00:24:10,615 --> 00:24:12,150
more politically open or

701
00:24:12,150 --> 00:24:13,451
tolerant.

702
00:24:13,451 --> 00:24:14,886
>> He looked like a very

703
00:24:14,886 --> 00:24:18,189
pro-Western, pro-technology guy.

704
00:24:18,189 --> 00:24:20,292
What I think was never properly

705
00:24:20,292 --> 00:24:22,160
interrogated was what kind of

706
00:24:22,160 --> 00:24:23,461
political system did he have in

707
00:24:23,461 --> 00:24:26,064
mind.

708
00:24:26,064 --> 00:24:27,065
>> SMITH: Politically minded

709
00:24:27,065 --> 00:24:28,633
Saudis didn't quite know what to

710
00:24:28,633 --> 00:24:30,068
expect.

711
00:24:30,068 --> 00:24:31,436
But for them, economic and

712
00:24:31,436 --> 00:24:32,604
social changes would be

713
00:24:32,604 --> 00:24:34,205
meaningless without real

714
00:24:34,205 --> 00:24:35,140
political reform.

715
00:24:36,074 --> 00:24:37,742
(Yahya al-Assiri):

716
00:24:49,988 --> 00:24:53,391
♪ ♪

717
00:24:53,391 --> 00:24:54,693
>> SMITH: Yahya al-Assiri is a

718
00:24:54,693 --> 00:24:57,228
prominent human rights activist.

719
00:24:57,228 --> 00:24:58,363
I met him at a conference he

720
00:24:58,363 --> 00:25:00,565
organized of Saudis in London.

721
00:25:02,667 --> 00:25:04,436
(Assiri):

722
00:25:11,876 --> 00:25:13,111
>> SMITH: In recent years

723
00:25:13,111 --> 00:25:14,245
increasing numbers of Saudis

724
00:25:14,245 --> 00:25:15,714
have left the country--

725
00:25:15,714 --> 00:25:17,649
writers, academics, and

726
00:25:17,649 --> 00:25:18,583
activists of all kinds.

727
00:25:19,351 --> 00:25:21,186
>> The main thing we're calling

728
00:25:21,186 --> 00:25:23,154
for is we want freedom of

729
00:25:23,154 --> 00:25:24,789
speech, freedom of assembly,

730
00:25:24,789 --> 00:25:27,192
freedom of movement where the

731
00:25:27,192 --> 00:25:28,760
people can have the right of

732
00:25:28,760 --> 00:25:29,861
self-determination.

733
00:25:31,129 --> 00:25:34,366
(speaking Arabic):

734
00:25:41,473 --> 00:25:42,807
>> SMITH: What kind of a man is

735
00:25:42,807 --> 00:25:44,109
Mohammed bin Salman?

736
00:25:45,977 --> 00:25:48,246
>> Mohammed bin Salman...

737
00:25:54,285 --> 00:25:57,589
♪ ♪

738
00:26:00,325 --> 00:26:02,293
>> SMITH: In March 2017

739
00:26:02,293 --> 00:26:03,862
Mohammed bin Salman agreed to

740
00:26:03,862 --> 00:26:05,830
meet with me in his office at

741
00:26:05,830 --> 00:26:07,899
Riyadh's Irqah palace.

742
00:26:07,899 --> 00:26:09,534
I wanted to talk to him about

743
00:26:09,534 --> 00:26:11,436
political reforms.

744
00:26:11,436 --> 00:26:13,304
But when I got there, he talked

745
00:26:13,304 --> 00:26:15,173
mostly about his economic plans

746
00:26:15,173 --> 00:26:16,875
and the new U.S. president,

747
00:26:16,875 --> 00:26:18,243
Donald Trump.

748
00:26:18,243 --> 00:26:19,411
I asked for an on-camera

749
00:26:19,411 --> 00:26:20,545
interview.

750
00:26:20,545 --> 00:26:24,149
He said he wasn't quite ready.

751
00:26:24,149 --> 00:26:25,850
The next day, I was surprised to

752
00:26:25,850 --> 00:26:26,985
receive a text.

753
00:26:26,985 --> 00:26:28,353
(phone dings)

754
00:26:28,353 --> 00:26:29,454
(horn honks)

755
00:26:37,462 --> 00:26:41,933
♪ ♪

756
00:26:41,933 --> 00:26:43,334
Meanwhile, Jamal Khashoggi

757
00:26:43,334 --> 00:26:44,869
continued to be sought after as

758
00:26:44,869 --> 00:26:46,604
a commentator.

759
00:26:46,604 --> 00:26:48,840
After America's 2016 election,

760
00:26:48,840 --> 00:26:50,475
he video conferenced in to a

761
00:26:50,475 --> 00:26:51,743
U.S. think tank from the Middle

762
00:26:51,743 --> 00:26:52,410
East.

763
00:26:53,344 --> 00:26:54,746
>> Thank you, thank you for

764
00:26:54,746 --> 00:26:55,680
inviting me.

765
00:26:55,680 --> 00:26:57,649
I'm sure Saudi Arabian officials

766
00:26:57,649 --> 00:26:59,584
were caught off-guard by the

767
00:26:59,584 --> 00:27:01,686
election of Mr. Trump...

768
00:27:01,686 --> 00:27:02,787
>> SMITH: His comments weren't

769
00:27:02,787 --> 00:27:04,355
especially negative, just

770
00:27:04,355 --> 00:27:05,557
cautionary.

771
00:27:05,557 --> 00:27:07,158
>> If we had difficulties with

772
00:27:07,158 --> 00:27:08,760
somebody like Mr. Obama, I'm

773
00:27:08,760 --> 00:27:09,728
sure we will have more

774
00:27:09,728 --> 00:27:11,129
difficulties with-with Mr.

775
00:27:11,129 --> 00:27:12,964
Trump.

776
00:27:12,964 --> 00:27:13,932
>> He was advising Gulf

777
00:27:13,932 --> 00:27:16,134
governments, including Saudi

778
00:27:16,134 --> 00:27:18,169
Arabia, not to put all their

779
00:27:18,169 --> 00:27:19,738
eggs in Trump's basket.

780
00:27:19,738 --> 00:27:21,072
>> The more chaos we have in the

781
00:27:21,072 --> 00:27:22,173
region, the more...

782
00:27:22,173 --> 00:27:24,609
>> But rather to diversify their

783
00:27:24,609 --> 00:27:25,710
relations.

784
00:27:25,710 --> 00:27:27,212
>> Mr. Trump has to choose.

785
00:27:27,212 --> 00:27:29,013
He cannot be critical of the

786
00:27:29,013 --> 00:27:32,250
Iran nuclear program and not see

787
00:27:32,250 --> 00:27:33,885
the chaos they are creating.

788
00:27:33,885 --> 00:27:34,886
It is not just...

789
00:27:34,886 --> 00:27:35,987
>> SMITH: It is not clear if he

790
00:27:35,987 --> 00:27:37,422
realized he had crossed a red

791
00:27:37,422 --> 00:27:38,790
line.

792
00:27:38,790 --> 00:27:40,158
But he had.

793
00:27:41,326 --> 00:27:42,994
In very clear terms, he told

794
00:27:42,994 --> 00:27:44,996
friends and colleagues, Saudi

795
00:27:44,996 --> 00:27:46,531
authorities ordered him to no

796
00:27:46,531 --> 00:27:49,000
longer write or tweet or appear

797
00:27:49,000 --> 00:27:51,636
on TV.

798
00:27:51,636 --> 00:27:53,204
>> This speech in particular was

799
00:27:53,204 --> 00:27:54,773
seen by Mohammed bin Salman

800
00:27:54,773 --> 00:27:56,708
as likely to be interpreted

801
00:27:56,708 --> 00:27:59,077
as being anti-Trump and his

802
00:27:59,077 --> 00:28:00,011
inner circle.

803
00:28:00,011 --> 00:28:01,045
>> SMITH: So, "Don't get between

804
00:28:01,045 --> 00:28:02,580
me and the Trump

805
00:28:02,580 --> 00:28:03,414
administration."

806
00:28:03,414 --> 00:28:03,982
>> Yes.

807
00:28:07,619 --> 00:28:12,757
(horns blowing fanfare)

808
00:28:16,995 --> 00:28:17,996
>> SMITH: The importance of

809
00:28:17,996 --> 00:28:19,497
Donald Trump to the Saudis was

810
00:28:19,497 --> 00:28:21,232
made abundantly clear in the way

811
00:28:21,232 --> 00:28:23,067
they greeted him in Riyadh in

812
00:28:23,067 --> 00:28:25,403
May 2017.

813
00:28:25,403 --> 00:28:27,505
>> The grandeur of this welcome

814
00:28:27,505 --> 00:28:28,673
is so different from past

815
00:28:28,673 --> 00:28:29,874
presidents.

816
00:28:29,874 --> 00:28:31,042
>> Really just showing how

817
00:28:31,042 --> 00:28:32,410
excited this country is that

818
00:28:32,410 --> 00:28:34,646
President Trump has chosen Saudi

819
00:28:34,646 --> 00:28:36,548
Arabia to make his first stop.

820
00:28:36,548 --> 00:28:38,616
>> It's a huge coup for MBS and

821
00:28:38,616 --> 00:28:39,951
King Salman.

822
00:28:39,951 --> 00:28:41,386
(band playing "Star Spangled

823
00:28:41,386 --> 00:28:43,721
Banner")

824
00:28:43,721 --> 00:28:45,790
In that it's able to bring the

825
00:28:45,790 --> 00:28:46,925
most powerful person in the

826
00:28:46,925 --> 00:28:48,860
world to Saudi Arabia and to

827
00:28:48,860 --> 00:28:51,830
rekindle the strategic alliance

828
00:28:51,830 --> 00:28:53,832
that had frayed under President

829
00:28:53,832 --> 00:28:55,033
Obama.

830
00:28:55,033 --> 00:28:56,768
So for MBS, this is a massive

831
00:28:56,768 --> 00:28:58,303
victory.

832
00:28:58,303 --> 00:29:00,538
(band playing)

833
00:29:00,538 --> 00:29:01,806
>> SMITH: The Saudis used the

834
00:29:01,806 --> 00:29:03,441
trip to influence the president

835
00:29:03,441 --> 00:29:04,876
on a variety of issues.

836
00:29:06,044 --> 00:29:07,579
>> And the Saudis knew how to

837
00:29:07,579 --> 00:29:09,214
play Donald Trump.

838
00:29:09,214 --> 00:29:10,849
They'd seen this kind of person

839
00:29:10,849 --> 00:29:12,750
before, in many ways he's kind

840
00:29:12,750 --> 00:29:14,686
of a mirror image of many Saudi

841
00:29:14,686 --> 00:29:15,520
princes.

842
00:29:16,154 --> 00:29:17,889
>> Everywhere you look there are

843
00:29:17,889 --> 00:29:20,925
posters welcoming Donald Trump.

844
00:29:20,925 --> 00:29:22,961
>> You put his picture up on big

845
00:29:22,961 --> 00:29:24,262
posters on the side of

846
00:29:24,262 --> 00:29:25,997
skyscrapers.

847
00:29:25,997 --> 00:29:27,365
>> Pretty amazing welcome

848
00:29:27,365 --> 00:29:28,600
ceremony that President Trump is

849
00:29:28,600 --> 00:29:29,567
receiving...

850
00:29:29,567 --> 00:29:31,436
>> You put on the sword dance.

851
00:29:31,436 --> 00:29:34,839
(drums beating, men singing)

852
00:29:41,546 --> 00:29:43,081
You put on a big display.

853
00:29:43,081 --> 00:29:45,116
(playing bagpipes)

854
00:29:49,187 --> 00:29:50,521
>> King Salman bin Abdulaziz Al

855
00:29:50,521 --> 00:29:53,591
Saud confers King Abdulaziz

856
00:29:53,591 --> 00:29:56,094
Medal on President Donald Trump.

857
00:29:56,094 --> 00:29:58,963
(applause)

858
00:29:58,963 --> 00:30:00,164
>> You play to his ego, and he

859
00:30:00,164 --> 00:30:02,100
will do what you want him to do.

860
00:30:02,100 --> 00:30:04,269
♪ ♪

861
00:30:04,269 --> 00:30:05,703
>> SMITH: What the Saudis wanted

862
00:30:05,703 --> 00:30:07,438
from Trump was U.S. help in

863
00:30:07,438 --> 00:30:09,607
beating back Iran and

864
00:30:09,607 --> 00:30:11,276
supporting Saudi ambitions to

865
00:30:11,276 --> 00:30:12,844
become the dominant player in

866
00:30:12,844 --> 00:30:15,113
the Middle East.

867
00:30:15,113 --> 00:30:17,382
In return, MBS made promises to

868
00:30:17,382 --> 00:30:19,150
help Trump and his son-in-law

869
00:30:19,150 --> 00:30:20,919
Jared Kushner resolve the

870
00:30:20,919 --> 00:30:23,955
Israeli-Palestinian conflict.

871
00:30:23,955 --> 00:30:24,989
>> Mohammed bin Salman would

872
00:30:24,989 --> 00:30:26,591
tell people, "I see a Middle

873
00:30:26,591 --> 00:30:27,659
East that's going to include

874
00:30:27,659 --> 00:30:28,760
Israel.

875
00:30:28,760 --> 00:30:29,961
I'm prepared to recognize

876
00:30:29,961 --> 00:30:31,963
Israel, have trade relationships

877
00:30:31,963 --> 00:30:33,131
with Israel."

878
00:30:33,464 --> 00:30:35,900
And I think that was very

879
00:30:35,900 --> 00:30:37,068
seductive to the Trump

880
00:30:37,068 --> 00:30:38,403
administration and at the

881
00:30:38,403 --> 00:30:40,438
centerpiece of the-the peace

882
00:30:40,438 --> 00:30:41,739
plan that Kushner kept trying to

883
00:30:41,739 --> 00:30:42,607
push.

884
00:30:43,274 --> 00:30:44,575
>> The president and his top

885
00:30:44,575 --> 00:30:46,311
aides taking steps to solidify

886
00:30:46,311 --> 00:30:48,413
relations with the Muslim world.

887
00:30:48,413 --> 00:30:49,747
>> To give credit to Mohammed

888
00:30:49,747 --> 00:30:51,849
bin Salman of his many

889
00:30:51,849 --> 00:30:53,885
sought-after accomplishments,

890
00:30:53,885 --> 00:30:56,654
the grooming and wooing of

891
00:30:56,654 --> 00:30:58,122
Donald Trump has to be pretty

892
00:30:58,122 --> 00:30:59,390
close to the top.

893
00:30:59,390 --> 00:31:04,896
♪ ♪

894
00:31:04,896 --> 00:31:06,130
>> SMITH: During the visit,

895
00:31:06,130 --> 00:31:07,799
Trump agreed to an arms deal

896
00:31:07,799 --> 00:31:11,202
worth over $100 billion.

897
00:31:11,202 --> 00:31:13,137
>> We signed historic agreements

898
00:31:13,137 --> 00:31:14,172
with the Kingdom.

899
00:31:14,172 --> 00:31:16,841
And we will be sure to help our

900
00:31:16,841 --> 00:31:19,577
Saudi friends to get a good deal

901
00:31:19,577 --> 00:31:22,380
from our great American defense

902
00:31:22,380 --> 00:31:23,514
companies.

903
00:31:23,514 --> 00:31:28,252
♪ ♪

904
00:31:28,252 --> 00:31:29,253
>> SMITH: For the Saudis, the

905
00:31:29,253 --> 00:31:31,656
trip was a great triumph.

906
00:31:31,656 --> 00:31:33,024
They had been reassured that

907
00:31:33,024 --> 00:31:34,559
Trump had their back.

908
00:31:34,559 --> 00:31:36,361
♪ ♪

909
00:31:42,033 --> 00:31:43,968
♪ ♪

910
00:31:43,968 --> 00:31:46,104
At the exact same time Trump was

911
00:31:46,104 --> 00:31:50,541
in Riyadh, I was in Yemen.

912
00:31:50,541 --> 00:31:53,411
The war was in its third year.

913
00:31:53,411 --> 00:31:58,383
♪ ♪

914
00:31:58,383 --> 00:32:00,385
The Saudis, with U.S. military

915
00:32:00,385 --> 00:32:01,753
assistance, were continuing

916
00:32:01,753 --> 00:32:03,855
their air campaign.

917
00:32:03,855 --> 00:32:05,790
The Iranian-backed Houthi rebels

918
00:32:05,790 --> 00:32:07,692
were not retreating.

919
00:32:07,692 --> 00:32:09,327
But Prince Mohammed was-- as he

920
00:32:09,327 --> 00:32:11,095
told me-- confident that with

921
00:32:11,095 --> 00:32:13,164
just a little more time he could

922
00:32:13,164 --> 00:32:16,234
win here.

923
00:32:16,234 --> 00:32:19,237
>> We heard bombs and we can

924
00:32:19,237 --> 00:32:20,438
afraid, things...

925
00:32:20,438 --> 00:32:22,774
>> Big boom, like that.

926
00:32:22,774 --> 00:32:25,009
>> I see the boys of my neighbor

927
00:32:25,009 --> 00:32:26,611
has died.

928
00:32:26,611 --> 00:32:30,782
And blood on the floor.

929
00:32:30,782 --> 00:32:32,050
>> SMITH: I visited a Yemeni

930
00:32:32,050 --> 00:32:32,884
refugee camp.

931
00:32:34,252 --> 00:32:36,921
(woman speaking Arabic):

932
00:32:46,130 --> 00:32:47,131
>> SMITH: Why are the Saudis

933
00:32:47,131 --> 00:32:47,966
doing this?

934
00:32:57,608 --> 00:32:59,844
(woman 1):

935
00:33:14,859 --> 00:33:18,229
♪ ♪

936
00:33:18,229 --> 00:33:19,230
>> SMITH: Then with the war in

937
00:33:19,230 --> 00:33:20,298
Yemen at a stalemate, and within

938
00:33:20,298 --> 00:33:22,300
weeks of Trump's trip to

939
00:33:22,300 --> 00:33:24,035
the region, MBS launched

940
00:33:24,035 --> 00:33:25,603
a new foreign policy adventure

941
00:33:25,603 --> 00:33:27,638
against another neighbor--

942
00:33:27,638 --> 00:33:31,109
the very rich nation of Qatar.

943
00:33:31,109 --> 00:33:32,743
>> Saudi Arabia, Bahrain, the

944
00:33:32,743 --> 00:33:34,612
U.A.E., among others, broke off

945
00:33:34,612 --> 00:33:36,180
diplomatic contact...

946
00:33:36,180 --> 00:33:37,849
>> SMITH: For years the Saudis

947
00:33:37,849 --> 00:33:39,484
had accused the Qataris of

948
00:33:39,484 --> 00:33:41,352
financing terrorist groups and

949
00:33:41,352 --> 00:33:43,321
being soft on Iran.

950
00:33:43,321 --> 00:33:44,956
Now MBS chose to act.

951
00:33:46,924 --> 00:33:48,759
>> Within a night, Saudi Arabia

952
00:33:48,759 --> 00:33:50,528
cut trading routes,

953
00:33:50,528 --> 00:33:52,430
transportation into Qatar.

954
00:33:52,430 --> 00:33:53,664
They severed diplomatic

955
00:33:53,664 --> 00:33:54,999
relations.

956
00:33:54,999 --> 00:33:56,567
It was a demand for total

957
00:33:56,567 --> 00:33:58,703
capitulation, turning Qatar into

958
00:33:58,703 --> 00:34:00,171
a vassal state.

959
00:34:00,171 --> 00:34:01,372
It was a very brutal move.

960
00:34:02,673 --> 00:34:03,875
>> Countries blockading this

961
00:34:03,875 --> 00:34:06,410
nation has sent Qatar a 13-point

962
00:34:06,410 --> 00:34:07,578
list of demands...

963
00:34:07,578 --> 00:34:09,147
>> Qatar has been asked to curb

964
00:34:09,147 --> 00:34:10,947
diplomatic and trade relations

965
00:34:10,947 --> 00:34:12,116
with Iran. 

966
00:34:12,116 --> 00:34:13,251
>> SMITH: Among their demands

967
00:34:13,251 --> 00:34:14,685
was that Qatar shut down its

968
00:34:14,685 --> 00:34:16,454
giant, state-owned broadcasting

969
00:34:16,454 --> 00:34:19,290
network, Al Jazeera.

970
00:34:19,290 --> 00:34:21,759
>> Saudi Arabia doesn't see why

971
00:34:21,759 --> 00:34:24,061
tiny countries like Qatar should

972
00:34:24,061 --> 00:34:26,297
have this disproportionate say

973
00:34:26,297 --> 00:34:28,366
in the region.

974
00:34:28,366 --> 00:34:29,900
So this time, they went for the

975
00:34:29,900 --> 00:34:30,734
jugular.

976
00:34:32,235 --> 00:34:34,672
>> The Qataris have pushed

977
00:34:34,672 --> 00:34:37,475
incitement and extremism through

978
00:34:37,475 --> 00:34:39,143
their media platforms in order

979
00:34:39,143 --> 00:34:40,911
to destabilize countries.

980
00:34:40,911 --> 00:34:42,246
This is why we are saying to the

981
00:34:42,246 --> 00:34:43,681
Qataris, "Enough is enough.

982
00:34:43,681 --> 00:34:45,216
This has got to stop if you want

983
00:34:45,216 --> 00:34:46,350
to have normal relations with

984
00:34:46,350 --> 00:34:47,185
us."

985
00:34:49,219 --> 00:34:50,221
>> SMITH: Trump tweeted his

986
00:34:50,221 --> 00:34:52,123
support of the Saudis, seeming

987
00:34:52,123 --> 00:34:53,690
to agree with them that Qatar

988
00:34:53,690 --> 00:34:55,993
was funding terrorism.

989
00:34:55,993 --> 00:34:57,762
"So good to see the Saudi Arabia

990
00:34:57,762 --> 00:34:59,330
visit... already paying off.

991
00:35:00,198 --> 00:35:01,465
Perhaps this will be the

992
00:35:01,465 --> 00:35:03,467
beginning of the end to horror

993
00:35:03,467 --> 00:35:04,302
of terrorism!"

994
00:35:05,002 --> 00:35:06,837
♪ ♪

995
00:35:06,837 --> 00:35:07,905
What Trump seemed to have

996
00:35:07,905 --> 00:35:09,540
forgotten is that Qatar is a

997
00:35:09,540 --> 00:35:11,576
major U.S. ally that hosts the

998
00:35:11,576 --> 00:35:13,678
largest American military base

999
00:35:13,678 --> 00:35:15,613
in the Middle East.

1000
00:35:15,613 --> 00:35:17,014
Trump tried to negotiate a

1001
00:35:17,014 --> 00:35:18,749
settlement, but the Qataris

1002
00:35:18,749 --> 00:35:23,421
would not cave to Saudi demands.

1003
00:35:23,721 --> 00:35:24,722
>> To the benefit of the

1004
00:35:24,722 --> 00:35:26,090
Qataris, they have a tremendous

1005
00:35:26,090 --> 00:35:28,226
amount of financial resources.

1006
00:35:28,593 --> 00:35:30,695
They have learned to live

1007
00:35:30,695 --> 00:35:32,463
without their neighbors.

1008
00:35:32,463 --> 00:35:33,831
They have weathered the

1009
00:35:33,831 --> 00:35:35,733
blockade without any kind of

1010
00:35:35,733 --> 00:35:37,602
major economic problems.

1011
00:35:37,602 --> 00:35:39,537
They, in fact, have prospered.

1012
00:35:39,537 --> 00:35:42,273
♪ ♪

1013
00:35:42,273 --> 00:35:43,574
>> SMITH: But MBS refused to

1014
00:35:43,574 --> 00:35:46,110
lift the boycott.

1015
00:35:46,110 --> 00:35:47,245
>> He wants to be the most

1016
00:35:47,245 --> 00:35:49,280
important leader who decides on

1017
00:35:49,280 --> 00:35:50,515
policies of the region.

1018
00:35:51,115 --> 00:35:52,550
It's the desire, I think, by MBS

1019
00:35:52,550 --> 00:35:54,452
to be the dominant regional

1020
00:35:54,452 --> 00:35:55,987
figure.

1021
00:35:56,520 --> 00:35:57,688
>> SMITH: MBS was also

1022
00:35:57,688 --> 00:35:59,123
determined to be the dominant

1023
00:35:59,123 --> 00:36:01,459
decision-maker at home.

1024
00:36:01,459 --> 00:36:04,962
One man stood in his way: Crown

1025
00:36:04,962 --> 00:36:06,897
Prince Mohammed bin Nayef.

1026
00:36:06,897 --> 00:36:08,899
♪ ♪

1027
00:36:08,899 --> 00:36:11,035
On the night of June 20, two

1028
00:36:11,035 --> 00:36:13,237
weeks after the attack on Qatar,

1029
00:36:13,237 --> 00:36:14,672
bin Nayef was summoned by the

1030
00:36:14,672 --> 00:36:16,474
king.

1031
00:36:16,474 --> 00:36:18,109
Saudi TV broadcast this

1032
00:36:18,109 --> 00:36:19,677
carefully choreographed scene.

1033
00:36:21,012 --> 00:36:22,747
(bin Nayef):

1034
00:36:26,984 --> 00:36:27,885
(bin Salman):

1035
00:36:28,953 --> 00:36:30,655
>> Essentially, what MBS did was

1036
00:36:30,655 --> 00:36:33,591
to break the personality and

1037
00:36:33,591 --> 00:36:37,094
power of MBN as chief rival,

1038
00:36:37,094 --> 00:36:39,263
humiliate him, and then make a

1039
00:36:39,263 --> 00:36:41,666
show of kissing Mohammed bin

1040
00:36:41,666 --> 00:36:43,267
Nayef's ring, as if he was

1041
00:36:43,267 --> 00:36:44,101
being submissive.

1042
00:36:45,336 --> 00:36:46,837
(bin Nayef and bin Salman):

1043
00:36:54,645 --> 00:36:56,280
>> Mohammed bin Nayef went along

1044
00:36:56,280 --> 00:36:57,381
with this little bit of

1045
00:36:57,381 --> 00:36:59,050
choreography only to be moved

1046
00:36:59,050 --> 00:37:02,286
into, effectively, house arrest.

1047
00:37:02,286 --> 00:37:04,689
Now, it's a nice house, it's a

1048
00:37:04,689 --> 00:37:05,890
palace.

1049
00:37:05,890 --> 00:37:06,991
But he's held there

1050
00:37:06,991 --> 00:37:09,093
incommunicado under essentially

1051
00:37:09,093 --> 00:37:10,394
palace arrest.

1052
00:37:10,394 --> 00:37:11,662
>> The former crown prince was

1053
00:37:11,662 --> 00:37:12,797
in charge of Saudi Arabia's

1054
00:37:12,797 --> 00:37:14,765
security services, he has been

1055
00:37:14,765 --> 00:37:17,001
relieved of all position.

1056
00:37:19,670 --> 00:37:20,671
>> SMITH: Within hours of the

1057
00:37:20,671 --> 00:37:22,406
news, Trump called Mohammed bin

1058
00:37:22,406 --> 00:37:25,576
Salman to congratulate him.

1059
00:37:25,576 --> 00:37:26,577
>> Mohammed bin Nayef may have

1060
00:37:26,577 --> 00:37:27,978
been the C.I.A.'s best friend,

1061
00:37:27,978 --> 00:37:29,046
but he wasn't Donald Trump's

1062
00:37:29,046 --> 00:37:30,081
best friend, let alone Jared

1063
00:37:30,081 --> 00:37:31,615
Kushner's.

1064
00:37:31,615 --> 00:37:33,217
The Trump White House had chosen

1065
00:37:33,217 --> 00:37:34,952
its Saudi friend and that, and

1066
00:37:34,952 --> 00:37:36,454
that was MBS.

1067
00:37:36,454 --> 00:37:39,957
♪ ♪

1068
00:37:39,957 --> 00:37:42,193
(man shouting command)

1069
00:37:42,193 --> 00:37:43,661
>> SMITH: Overnight, MBS had

1070
00:37:43,661 --> 00:37:45,629
engineered a hugely successful

1071
00:37:45,629 --> 00:37:48,366
maneuver.

1072
00:37:48,866 --> 00:37:50,701
As you understood it-- and

1073
00:37:50,701 --> 00:37:53,170
you're close to the Saudis--

1074
00:37:53,170 --> 00:37:55,339
how did you understand the need

1075
00:37:55,339 --> 00:37:58,909
to oust Mohammed bin Nayef?

1076
00:37:58,909 --> 00:38:01,545
>> My sense is that the-the

1077
00:38:01,545 --> 00:38:05,249
urgency that the king and the

1078
00:38:05,249 --> 00:38:07,451
crown prince felt as to the need

1079
00:38:07,451 --> 00:38:09,053
for changes in the Kingdom's

1080
00:38:09,053 --> 00:38:10,855
economic and political structure

1081
00:38:10,855 --> 00:38:12,757
was such that it compelled them

1082
00:38:12,757 --> 00:38:13,658
to make that decision.

1083
00:38:13,991 --> 00:38:16,627
(soldiers shouting)

1084
00:38:16,627 --> 00:38:17,628
>> SMITH: With Mohammed bin

1085
00:38:17,628 --> 00:38:19,397
Nayef removed, the new crown

1086
00:38:19,397 --> 00:38:22,166
prince, MBS, was now firmly in

1087
00:38:22,166 --> 00:38:24,935
charge.

1088
00:38:24,935 --> 00:38:26,537
>> He became the guy running the

1089
00:38:26,537 --> 00:38:27,772
Royal Court.

1090
00:38:27,772 --> 00:38:29,440
He became the defense minister.

1091
00:38:29,440 --> 00:38:30,975
And he had also taken over

1092
00:38:30,975 --> 00:38:32,243
effective control of the

1093
00:38:32,243 --> 00:38:33,844
Interior Ministry from Crown

1094
00:38:33,844 --> 00:38:35,279
Prince Mohammed bin Nayef.

1095
00:38:35,579 --> 00:38:37,848
The whole ball of wax was now in

1096
00:38:37,848 --> 00:38:40,584
the hands of one man in a way

1097
00:38:40,584 --> 00:38:41,719
that was really unprecedented.

1098
00:38:42,052 --> 00:38:44,922
♪ ♪

1099
00:38:52,396 --> 00:38:53,230
>> SMITH: Saudis were already

1100
00:38:53,230 --> 00:38:55,900
getting a peek at what MBS's

1101
00:38:55,900 --> 00:38:57,168
reforms would look like.

1102
00:38:57,168 --> 00:39:02,506
(riders screaming happily)

1103
00:39:02,506 --> 00:39:04,608
This fun zone had opened inside

1104
00:39:04,608 --> 00:39:07,244
a Riyadh mall.

1105
00:39:07,244 --> 00:39:08,913
Along with all the rides and

1106
00:39:08,913 --> 00:39:10,948
shops is a big multiplex movie

1107
00:39:10,948 --> 00:39:12,616
theater showing all the latest

1108
00:39:12,616 --> 00:39:14,051
features.

1109
00:39:14,051 --> 00:39:16,554
Cinemas were banned for decades.

1110
00:39:16,554 --> 00:39:18,722
But now MBS's plan was to open

1111
00:39:18,722 --> 00:39:22,660
350 theaters across the Kingdom.

1112
00:39:22,660 --> 00:39:25,629
(riders screaming happily)

1113
00:39:25,629 --> 00:39:26,864
What people weren't seeing at

1114
00:39:26,864 --> 00:39:27,898
the time was the

1115
00:39:27,898 --> 00:39:29,233
behind-the-scenes effort to

1116
00:39:29,233 --> 00:39:31,168
control how much freedom would

1117
00:39:31,168 --> 00:39:33,070
be allowed.

1118
00:39:33,070 --> 00:39:35,172
♪ ♪

1119
00:39:39,910 --> 00:39:41,846
>> The changes in the Kingdom

1120
00:39:41,846 --> 00:39:43,280
were going to unleash several

1121
00:39:43,280 --> 00:39:45,749
different pressures.

1122
00:39:45,749 --> 00:39:47,017
First, you were going to have

1123
00:39:47,017 --> 00:39:48,953
thousands of religious police

1124
00:39:48,953 --> 00:39:53,057
who would say, "I oppose this."

1125
00:39:53,057 --> 00:39:54,558
You would inevitably also have

1126
00:39:54,558 --> 00:39:56,360
thousands of other Saudis, who

1127
00:39:56,360 --> 00:39:58,729
would say, "I want far more than

1128
00:39:58,729 --> 00:40:00,965
you're willing to give."

1129
00:40:00,965 --> 00:40:02,466
I think the Saudis made a

1130
00:40:02,466 --> 00:40:03,467
decision that they needed to

1131
00:40:03,467 --> 00:40:06,003
somehow, somehow manage that.

1132
00:40:06,003 --> 00:40:07,972
(indistinct conversation)

1133
00:40:07,972 --> 00:40:09,473
>> SMITH: In Saudi Arabia, two

1134
00:40:09,473 --> 00:40:11,141
thirds of the country is under

1135
00:40:11,141 --> 00:40:13,844
30, with the largest population

1136
00:40:13,844 --> 00:40:15,246
of Twitter users in the Middle

1137
00:40:15,246 --> 00:40:16,280
East.

1138
00:40:18,849 --> 00:40:21,118
>> Saudi was a Twitter country.

1139
00:40:21,118 --> 00:40:22,920
You know, they expressed

1140
00:40:22,920 --> 00:40:24,688
themselves on Twitter.

1141
00:40:24,688 --> 00:40:25,890
They used to call it the Saudi

1142
00:40:25,890 --> 00:40:27,324
Congress.

1143
00:40:27,324 --> 00:40:28,893
And Twitter was fairly open.

1144
00:40:30,828 --> 00:40:32,296
>> SMITH: But when MBS became

1145
00:40:32,296 --> 00:40:36,433
crown prince, that would change.

1146
00:40:36,433 --> 00:40:38,802
>> MBS began to realize that

1147
00:40:38,802 --> 00:40:41,205
shaping the debate on Twitter,

1148
00:40:41,205 --> 00:40:43,274
manipulating the debate,

1149
00:40:43,274 --> 00:40:45,643
intrusively watching what people

1150
00:40:45,643 --> 00:40:48,479
were writing and thinking, was

1151
00:40:48,479 --> 00:40:49,713
going to be part of how he would

1152
00:40:49,713 --> 00:40:51,181
control power.

1153
00:40:51,181 --> 00:40:52,750
(street noises, children

1154
00:40:52,750 --> 00:40:54,552
talking)

1155
00:40:57,421 --> 00:40:59,757
>> I think it would be a while

1156
00:40:59,757 --> 00:41:02,760
before Saudis understood what

1157
00:41:02,760 --> 00:41:05,763
was happening, that the entire

1158
00:41:05,763 --> 00:41:08,532
landscape of Twitter in Saudi

1159
00:41:08,532 --> 00:41:10,668
Arabia was shifting from this

1160
00:41:10,668 --> 00:41:13,103
open platform where people felt

1161
00:41:13,103 --> 00:41:15,806
comfortable to express opinions

1162
00:41:15,806 --> 00:41:18,642
to something that was more like

1163
00:41:18,642 --> 00:41:19,977
an instrument of oppression.

1164
00:41:19,977 --> 00:41:22,446
♪ ♪

1165
00:41:22,446 --> 00:41:23,781
>> SMITH: MBS would pick a

1166
00:41:23,781 --> 00:41:25,349
close aide, Saud al-Qahtani, to

1167
00:41:25,349 --> 00:41:27,251
police Twitter.

1168
00:41:27,251 --> 00:41:29,520
Over time MBS would rely on him

1169
00:41:29,520 --> 00:41:31,422
to do much more.

1170
00:41:31,422 --> 00:41:35,559
(man speaking Arabic)

1171
00:41:35,559 --> 00:41:36,961
That's him at a large

1172
00:41:36,961 --> 00:41:38,896
software-development competition

1173
00:41:38,896 --> 00:41:40,698
that he organized in Jeddah.

1174
00:41:40,698 --> 00:41:43,233
>> Saudi Federation for

1175
00:41:43,233 --> 00:41:45,302
Cybersecurity and Programming,

1176
00:41:45,302 --> 00:41:47,438
you are officially amazing.

1177
00:41:47,438 --> 00:41:48,706
Congratulations.

1178
00:41:48,706 --> 00:41:50,741
(applause)

1179
00:41:51,141 --> 00:41:52,276
>> Mohammed bin Salman saw in

1180
00:41:52,276 --> 00:41:54,845
him the kind of Saudi who's

1181
00:41:54,845 --> 00:41:56,447
interested in high-tech, who

1182
00:41:56,447 --> 00:41:58,482
knows social media, who can

1183
00:41:58,482 --> 00:42:00,718
promote, you know, Mohammed bin

1184
00:42:00,718 --> 00:42:02,987
Salman's profile and visions and

1185
00:42:02,987 --> 00:42:04,889
ideas through this medium.

1186
00:42:05,189 --> 00:42:06,924
(applause)

1187
00:42:06,924 --> 00:42:11,262
♪ ♪

1188
00:42:16,700 --> 00:42:17,835
>> SMITH: Qahtani had one of the

1189
00:42:17,835 --> 00:42:19,269
most influential Twitter

1190
00:42:19,269 --> 00:42:21,772
accounts in the Kingdom.

1191
00:42:21,772 --> 00:42:23,507
He is also a poet who has

1192
00:42:23,507 --> 00:42:24,942
composed verse about the royal

1193
00:42:24,942 --> 00:42:25,776
family.

1194
00:42:27,077 --> 00:42:31,749
(man singing):

1195
00:42:38,622 --> 00:42:42,126
>> He is very sharp, very witty,

1196
00:42:42,126 --> 00:42:44,928
knows quite a lot about local

1197
00:42:44,928 --> 00:42:47,364
culture, and knows all the

1198
00:42:47,364 --> 00:42:48,666
journalists, knows all the

1199
00:42:48,666 --> 00:42:49,667
intellectuals.

1200
00:42:50,167 --> 00:42:52,169
And he's very competent.

1201
00:42:52,169 --> 00:42:53,937
In other words, if you task him

1202
00:42:53,937 --> 00:42:55,673
with something, he will work

1203
00:42:55,673 --> 00:42:57,307
very hard, very disciplined, and

1204
00:42:57,307 --> 00:42:58,108
he will do it.

1205
00:42:58,542 --> 00:43:01,912
♪ ♪

1206
00:43:01,912 --> 00:43:03,013
>> SMITH: One of the things he

1207
00:43:03,013 --> 00:43:04,048
was tasked to do was to

1208
00:43:04,048 --> 00:43:05,883
influence opinion on Twitter

1209
00:43:05,883 --> 00:43:07,317
through hundreds of real or

1210
00:43:07,317 --> 00:43:09,186
automated fake accounts, or

1211
00:43:09,186 --> 00:43:12,756
bots.

1212
00:43:12,756 --> 00:43:14,391
A cybersecurity expert who has

1213
00:43:14,391 --> 00:43:17,061
tracked Saudi digital operations

1214
00:43:17,061 --> 00:43:17,895
is Bill Marczak.

1215
00:43:19,096 --> 00:43:20,564
>> Saud al-Qahtani, he used a

1216
00:43:20,564 --> 00:43:22,533
couple of aliases that people

1217
00:43:22,533 --> 00:43:23,901
were able to trace.

1218
00:43:23,901 --> 00:43:24,968
And they found him, you know,

1219
00:43:24,968 --> 00:43:26,770
active on hacker forums,

1220
00:43:26,770 --> 00:43:28,639
bragging about his abilities to

1221
00:43:28,639 --> 00:43:30,340
create Twitter bots and

1222
00:43:30,340 --> 00:43:31,375
influence the social media

1223
00:43:31,375 --> 00:43:32,209
discourse.

1224
00:43:34,678 --> 00:43:36,113
♪ ♪

1225
00:43:36,113 --> 00:43:37,681
So you say, "Oh, well, look, all

1226
00:43:37,681 --> 00:43:38,816
the tweets, like, 80% of the

1227
00:43:38,816 --> 00:43:40,017
tweets on this hashtag are

1228
00:43:40,017 --> 00:43:41,351
pro-MBS.

1229
00:43:41,351 --> 00:43:43,654
Hmm, maybe all of Saudi is

1230
00:43:43,654 --> 00:43:44,922
pro-MBS."

1231
00:43:44,922 --> 00:43:46,156
But in reality, no, there's

1232
00:43:46,156 --> 00:43:47,191
only a few dozen people behind

1233
00:43:47,191 --> 00:43:48,792
that.

1234
00:43:48,792 --> 00:43:50,194
>> SMITH: Qahtani also used

1235
00:43:50,194 --> 00:43:51,829
Twitter to go after critics,

1236
00:43:51,829 --> 00:43:54,331
like Saad al-Faqih.

1237
00:44:08,512 --> 00:44:09,546
>> SMITH: Faqih has been living

1238
00:44:09,546 --> 00:44:11,582
in exile for decades.

1239
00:44:11,582 --> 00:44:13,016
Three times a week, he records a

1240
00:44:13,016 --> 00:44:14,518
broadcast for his YouTube

1241
00:44:14,518 --> 00:44:16,253
channel out of an improvised

1242
00:44:16,253 --> 00:44:18,922
basement studio in North London.

1243
00:44:26,497 --> 00:44:27,598
>> SMITH: People like Faqih

1244
00:44:27,598 --> 00:44:28,932
could be bombarded with scores

1245
00:44:28,932 --> 00:44:30,501
of insults, and sometimes

1246
00:44:30,501 --> 00:44:31,969
threats, in the space of a few

1247
00:44:31,969 --> 00:44:34,138
hours.

1248
00:44:34,138 --> 00:44:36,073
Qahtani's electronic force

1249
00:44:36,073 --> 00:44:38,242
became known as an "Army of

1250
00:44:38,242 --> 00:44:40,778
Flies."

1251
00:44:40,778 --> 00:44:42,212
>> Saud al-Qahtani, he has got

1252
00:44:42,212 --> 00:44:43,213
an army.

1253
00:44:43,213 --> 00:44:46,183
Their job is to face the

1254
00:44:46,183 --> 00:44:48,986
computer and either write tweets

1255
00:44:48,986 --> 00:44:50,120
or write comments on YouTube,

1256
00:44:50,120 --> 00:44:52,556
write comments on Facebook.

1257
00:44:52,556 --> 00:44:54,992
These comments are directed by

1258
00:44:54,992 --> 00:44:57,761
him or by his team, either to

1259
00:44:57,761 --> 00:45:00,397
promote the regime or to write

1260
00:45:00,397 --> 00:45:02,900
things against what we write.

1261
00:45:02,900 --> 00:45:03,934
>> SMITH: What's the nature of

1262
00:45:03,934 --> 00:45:05,569
these comments?

1263
00:45:05,569 --> 00:45:06,570
>> That is the nature.

1264
00:45:06,570 --> 00:45:08,705
The nature is that "Mohammed

1265
00:45:08,705 --> 00:45:10,107
bin Salman is a great man.

1266
00:45:10,107 --> 00:45:13,043
Mohammed bin Salman is a hero.

1267
00:45:13,043 --> 00:45:15,412
And Dr. al-Faqih, Mr.

1268
00:45:15,412 --> 00:45:17,915
So-and-so are all traitors."

1269
00:45:17,915 --> 00:45:19,016
>> SMITH: Is it effective in

1270
00:45:19,016 --> 00:45:20,284
discrediting you?

1271
00:45:20,284 --> 00:45:21,451
>> It's not effective in terms

1272
00:45:21,451 --> 00:45:23,020
of discrediting, but it is

1273
00:45:23,020 --> 00:45:24,521
effective in terms of

1274
00:45:24,521 --> 00:45:26,056
intimidation.

1275
00:45:26,056 --> 00:45:34,398
♪ ♪

1276
00:45:34,398 --> 00:45:35,732
>> SMITH: The Saudis may have

1277
00:45:35,732 --> 00:45:38,902
even infiltrated Twitter.

1278
00:45:38,902 --> 00:45:43,307
♪ ♪

1279
00:45:43,307 --> 00:45:45,509
In 2015 Western intelligence

1280
00:45:45,509 --> 00:45:46,710
officials learned that the

1281
00:45:46,710 --> 00:45:48,512
Saudis had developed ties with a

1282
00:45:48,512 --> 00:45:50,781
Twitter engineer.

1283
00:45:50,781 --> 00:45:52,182
According to three sources who

1284
00:45:52,182 --> 00:45:54,051
spoke to "The New York Times,"

1285
00:45:54,051 --> 00:45:56,220
they "persuaded him to peer

1286
00:45:56,220 --> 00:46:00,123
into several user accounts."

1287
00:46:00,123 --> 00:46:01,892
Twitter alerted al-Faqih that he

1288
00:46:01,892 --> 00:46:03,360
may have been among those

1289
00:46:03,360 --> 00:46:04,695
targeted.

1290
00:46:05,095 --> 00:46:06,730
>> We found out that there was

1291
00:46:06,730 --> 00:46:08,532
an investigation into this

1292
00:46:08,532 --> 00:46:10,500
Saudi individual actually being

1293
00:46:10,500 --> 00:46:12,870
a mole of sorts inside Twitter

1294
00:46:12,870 --> 00:46:14,805
for the Royal Court.

1295
00:46:15,405 --> 00:46:17,241
>> So being someone inside

1296
00:46:17,241 --> 00:46:19,042
Twitter, this employee could

1297
00:46:19,042 --> 00:46:21,245
allegedly access private

1298
00:46:21,245 --> 00:46:25,148
details of accounts.

1299
00:46:25,148 --> 00:46:26,550
>> SMITH: And that could be

1300
00:46:26,550 --> 00:46:28,518
valuable in terms of identifying

1301
00:46:28,518 --> 00:46:30,654
a network of activists, let's

1302
00:46:30,654 --> 00:46:31,622
say?

1303
00:46:31,622 --> 00:46:32,589
>> Absolutely.

1304
00:46:32,589 --> 00:46:33,490
I think to a large extent they

1305
00:46:33,490 --> 00:46:34,524
sort of know who the activists

1306
00:46:34,524 --> 00:46:35,392
are.

1307
00:46:35,392 --> 00:46:36,627
But what are they saying?

1308
00:46:36,627 --> 00:46:37,628
What are they planning?

1309
00:46:37,628 --> 00:46:38,629
What-what's going to happen

1310
00:46:38,629 --> 00:46:39,663
next?

1311
00:46:39,663 --> 00:46:40,964
♪ ♪

1312
00:46:40,964 --> 00:46:42,299
>> SMITH: The suspected mole was

1313
00:46:42,299 --> 00:46:44,001
inside Twitter for around two

1314
00:46:44,001 --> 00:46:45,535
years.

1315
00:46:45,535 --> 00:46:47,905
How unusual is it for Twitter to

1316
00:46:47,905 --> 00:46:49,606
have a mole inside the company,

1317
00:46:49,606 --> 00:46:51,375
downloading private messages

1318
00:46:51,375 --> 00:46:53,343
and-and taking profile

1319
00:46:53,343 --> 00:46:54,811
information?

1320
00:46:54,811 --> 00:46:55,812
>> Well, it's the first case

1321
00:46:55,812 --> 00:46:56,747
we've heard of something like

1322
00:46:56,747 --> 00:46:57,681
this.

1323
00:46:57,681 --> 00:46:58,682
This was the first time that

1324
00:46:58,682 --> 00:46:59,783
Twitter had ever sent out one of

1325
00:46:59,783 --> 00:47:00,817
these, you know, state-sponsored

1326
00:47:00,817 --> 00:47:02,319
threat messages, saying, "Oh,

1327
00:47:02,319 --> 00:47:04,321
some nation-state is-is trying

1328
00:47:04,321 --> 00:47:05,722
to access your account."

1329
00:47:05,722 --> 00:47:08,792
♪ ♪

1330
00:47:08,792 --> 00:47:09,793
>> SMITH: Although there was no

1331
00:47:09,793 --> 00:47:10,794
evidence that he shared

1332
00:47:10,794 --> 00:47:12,129
information with the Saudi

1333
00:47:12,129 --> 00:47:13,730
government, Twitter, with no

1334
00:47:13,730 --> 00:47:15,132
public comment, fired the

1335
00:47:15,132 --> 00:47:18,068
engineer, Ali Alzabarah.

1336
00:47:18,068 --> 00:47:21,338
We were unable to reach him.

1337
00:47:21,338 --> 00:47:22,673
>> He has left the United

1338
00:47:22,673 --> 00:47:25,342
States, and he is now inside

1339
00:47:25,342 --> 00:47:26,877
Saudi Arabia, working in an

1340
00:47:26,877 --> 00:47:28,378
affiliated organization to the

1341
00:47:28,378 --> 00:47:31,782
Royal Court.

1342
00:47:31,782 --> 00:47:32,783
>> SMITH: While at the royal

1343
00:47:32,783 --> 00:47:34,518
court's media office, Qahtani

1344
00:47:34,518 --> 00:47:36,820
also created a special hashtag

1345
00:47:36,820 --> 00:47:39,289
on Twitter.

1346
00:47:39,289 --> 00:47:41,124
It started as a register of all

1347
00:47:41,124 --> 00:47:42,526
those opposed to Prince

1348
00:47:42,526 --> 00:47:45,162
Mohammed's Qatar boycott.

1349
00:47:45,162 --> 00:47:47,731
But it grew to become much more.

1350
00:47:47,731 --> 00:47:49,733
The official hashtag is

1351
00:47:49,733 --> 00:47:51,668
Blacklist.

1352
00:47:51,668 --> 00:47:53,170
Every name on it will be looked

1353
00:47:53,170 --> 00:47:54,338
into.

1354
00:47:54,338 --> 00:47:57,040
♪ ♪

1355
00:47:58,241 --> 00:47:59,943
>> The blacklist invites every

1356
00:47:59,943 --> 00:48:01,945
citizen of Saudi Arabia to

1357
00:48:01,945 --> 00:48:03,613
become an accomplice in

1358
00:48:03,613 --> 00:48:05,949
identifying a person to be put

1359
00:48:05,949 --> 00:48:07,784
on blacklist.

1360
00:48:08,585 --> 00:48:11,154
Whether it is a policy to open

1361
00:48:11,154 --> 00:48:13,957
up the economy, whether it is

1362
00:48:13,957 --> 00:48:15,993
about women's driving, or

1363
00:48:15,993 --> 00:48:19,296
simply about his position on the

1364
00:48:19,296 --> 00:48:22,165
Israeli-Palestinian conflict.

1365
00:48:22,165 --> 00:48:23,500
You might have a dispute with

1366
00:48:23,500 --> 00:48:24,501
someone.

1367
00:48:24,501 --> 00:48:26,003
You might actually inform the

1368
00:48:26,003 --> 00:48:27,738
authorities that they are

1369
00:48:27,738 --> 00:48:30,307
critical of the regime.

1370
00:48:30,307 --> 00:48:32,476
And this is, basically, the

1371
00:48:32,476 --> 00:48:35,045
deepest point in repression,

1372
00:48:35,045 --> 00:48:38,215
when it sinks so much that it

1373
00:48:38,215 --> 00:48:41,985
makes citizens its own arm in

1374
00:48:41,985 --> 00:48:43,587
controlling the population.

1375
00:48:43,587 --> 00:48:47,624
♪ ♪

1376
00:48:47,624 --> 00:48:48,925
>> SMITH: A specific blacklist

1377
00:48:48,925 --> 00:48:50,494
was put together to target

1378
00:48:50,494 --> 00:48:51,895
journalists.

1379
00:48:51,895 --> 00:48:53,530
Saudis learned about it on Saudi

1380
00:48:53,530 --> 00:48:54,965
state TV.

1381
00:49:01,271 --> 00:49:03,173
>> On that blacklist were people

1382
00:49:03,173 --> 00:49:05,008
who Qahtani thought were

1383
00:49:05,008 --> 00:49:06,109
speaking against the crown

1384
00:49:06,109 --> 00:49:07,110
prince, speaking against

1385
00:49:07,110 --> 00:49:08,845
existing power structure in

1386
00:49:08,845 --> 00:49:09,980
Saudi Arabia.

1387
00:49:09,980 --> 00:49:12,683
♪ ♪

1388
00:49:15,252 --> 00:49:16,353
>> SMITH: As the blacklist

1389
00:49:16,353 --> 00:49:18,221
expanded, Qahtani made sure

1390
00:49:18,221 --> 00:49:19,956
everyone knew who was directing

1391
00:49:19,956 --> 00:49:20,891
him.

1392
00:49:20,891 --> 00:49:22,492
"Do you think I'm acting on my

1393
00:49:22,492 --> 00:49:24,361
own whim?

1394
00:49:24,361 --> 00:49:25,829
I am a civil servant and a

1395
00:49:25,829 --> 00:49:27,330
faithful executioner of the

1396
00:49:27,330 --> 00:49:29,433
orders of the King and the Crown

1397
00:49:29,433 --> 00:49:33,370
Prince."

1398
00:49:33,370 --> 00:49:35,038
>> Interesting thing about MBS

1399
00:49:35,038 --> 00:49:36,907
is that you'd think with all the

1400
00:49:36,907 --> 00:49:38,408
power that he'd consolidated, he

1401
00:49:38,408 --> 00:49:40,043
would have begun to relax.

1402
00:49:40,043 --> 00:49:41,378
The opposite happened.

1403
00:49:41,378 --> 00:49:42,779
He seemed to get more hyper,

1404
00:49:42,779 --> 00:49:44,815
more intense, more committed to

1405
00:49:44,815 --> 00:49:46,650
going after his-his enemies,

1406
00:49:46,650 --> 00:49:48,685
the-the more powerful he became.

1407
00:49:48,685 --> 00:49:50,454
>> Your target may be outside

1408
00:49:50,454 --> 00:49:52,255
your monitoring domain.

1409
00:49:52,255 --> 00:49:54,958
Is passive monitoring enough?

1410
00:49:54,958 --> 00:49:57,627
You need more.

1411
00:49:57,627 --> 00:49:58,929
>> SMITH: The Royal Court also

1412
00:49:58,929 --> 00:50:00,397
reached out to an Italian

1413
00:50:00,397 --> 00:50:02,332
surveillance outfit, Hacking

1414
00:50:02,332 --> 00:50:03,533
Team.

1415
00:50:03,533 --> 00:50:05,836
>> You have to hack your target.

1416
00:50:08,171 --> 00:50:11,341
Exactly what we do.

1417
00:50:11,341 --> 00:50:12,275
>> SMITH: Companies that sell

1418
00:50:12,275 --> 00:50:14,277
hacking and tracking software to

1419
00:50:14,277 --> 00:50:15,679
governments who want to spy on

1420
00:50:15,679 --> 00:50:17,247
their citizens is a

1421
00:50:17,247 --> 00:50:20,217
multimillion-dollar business.

1422
00:50:20,217 --> 00:50:21,685
>> Rely on us.

1423
00:50:21,685 --> 00:50:22,752
>> SMITH: Hacking Team received

1424
00:50:22,752 --> 00:50:24,721
an email from a Saudi address

1425
00:50:24,721 --> 00:50:27,357
in 2015.

1426
00:50:27,357 --> 00:50:29,092
"Considering your esteemed

1427
00:50:29,092 --> 00:50:31,394
reputation and professionalism,

1428
00:50:31,394 --> 00:50:33,096
we here at the Center for Media

1429
00:50:33,096 --> 00:50:34,664
Monitoring and Analysis at the

1430
00:50:34,664 --> 00:50:37,067
Saudi Royal Court would like to

1431
00:50:37,067 --> 00:50:38,702
be in productive cooperation

1432
00:50:38,702 --> 00:50:39,936
with you...

1433
00:50:39,936 --> 00:50:41,505
Be so kind as to send us the

1434
00:50:41,505 --> 00:50:43,740
complete list of services that

1435
00:50:43,740 --> 00:50:47,210
your esteemed company offers.

1436
00:50:47,210 --> 00:50:49,779
Saud Al-Qahtani."

1437
00:50:49,779 --> 00:50:50,647
We couldn't reach Hacking Team.

1438
00:50:50,647 --> 00:50:51,781
But it was just one of the

1439
00:50:51,781 --> 00:50:52,983
surveillance companies the

1440
00:50:52,983 --> 00:50:55,685
Saudis reached out to.

1441
00:50:55,685 --> 00:51:00,690
♪ ♪

1442
00:51:00,690 --> 00:51:04,761
(woman speaking in Arabic)

1443
00:51:04,761 --> 00:51:06,096
At that London conference I

1444
00:51:06,096 --> 00:51:08,031
attended, dissidents discussed

1445
00:51:08,031 --> 00:51:10,233
their fears of being surveilled.

1446
00:51:16,973 --> 00:51:18,041
>> SMITH: Today the Saudi

1447
00:51:18,041 --> 00:51:19,709
government has the power to hack

1448
00:51:19,709 --> 00:51:21,578
any of its citizens.

1449
00:51:29,619 --> 00:51:33,023
♪ ♪

1450
00:51:33,023 --> 00:51:34,991
>> SMITH: In May 2018 Yahya

1451
00:51:34,991 --> 00:51:36,526
al-Assiri received a text

1452
00:51:36,526 --> 00:51:38,328
message from a source he did not

1453
00:51:38,328 --> 00:51:39,162
recognize.

1454
00:52:00,483 --> 00:52:01,518
>> SMITH: Al-Assiri was put in

1455
00:52:01,518 --> 00:52:03,186
touch with Bill Marczak at

1456
00:52:03,186 --> 00:52:05,388
Citizen Lab.

1457
00:52:05,388 --> 00:52:07,023
>> We were able to both identify

1458
00:52:07,023 --> 00:52:08,458
the link that he'd received was

1459
00:52:08,458 --> 00:52:10,427
connected to NSO Group's Pegasus

1460
00:52:10,427 --> 00:52:13,196
spyware.

1461
00:52:13,196 --> 00:52:14,631
>> SMITH: NSO is an Israeli

1462
00:52:14,631 --> 00:52:16,600
company that develops spyware

1463
00:52:16,600 --> 00:52:18,802
called Pegasus.

1464
00:52:18,802 --> 00:52:20,103
>> It can turn your phone

1465
00:52:20,103 --> 00:52:21,204
microphone on, it can turn on

1466
00:52:21,204 --> 00:52:22,339
your phone camera, it turns

1467
00:52:22,339 --> 00:52:24,274
your earphone in a spy device.

1468
00:52:24,274 --> 00:52:25,709
It can break any encrypted

1469
00:52:25,709 --> 00:52:28,011
message on your phone.

1470
00:52:28,011 --> 00:52:29,479
That's technology MBS got from

1471
00:52:29,479 --> 00:52:31,915
his new friends in secret in

1472
00:52:31,915 --> 00:52:33,350
Israel.

1473
00:52:33,350 --> 00:52:36,286
♪ ♪

1474
00:52:36,286 --> 00:52:37,187
>> SMITH: Is there much an

1475
00:52:37,187 --> 00:52:38,855
activist like Yahya al-Assiri

1476
00:52:38,855 --> 00:52:40,790
can do to prevent themselves

1477
00:52:40,790 --> 00:52:42,359
from being hacked?

1478
00:52:42,359 --> 00:52:43,493
>> Unfortunately, there's

1479
00:52:43,493 --> 00:52:44,527
really not.

1480
00:52:44,527 --> 00:52:45,528
For these sorts of top-tier

1481
00:52:45,528 --> 00:52:47,197
targets, when the government is

1482
00:52:47,197 --> 00:52:49,232
willing to expend essentially

1483
00:52:49,232 --> 00:52:51,201
unlimited resources to go after

1484
00:52:51,201 --> 00:52:52,702
these guys, there's really not

1485
00:52:52,702 --> 00:52:53,904
all that much they can do.

1486
00:53:11,688 --> 00:53:13,990
♪ ♪

1487
00:53:13,990 --> 00:53:15,525
>> SMITH: NSO did not comment on

1488
00:53:15,525 --> 00:53:18,028
Assiri's case but told us it

1489
00:53:18,028 --> 00:53:19,929
does not tolerate misuse of its

1490
00:53:19,929 --> 00:53:22,499
software or permit it to be used

1491
00:53:22,499 --> 00:53:24,267
for spying on critics or

1492
00:53:24,267 --> 00:53:25,302
journalists.

1493
00:53:25,302 --> 00:53:31,541
♪ ♪

1494
00:53:31,541 --> 00:53:33,310
Back in Saudi Arabia, Jamal

1495
00:53:33,310 --> 00:53:34,878
Khashoggi had not been able to

1496
00:53:34,878 --> 00:53:36,780
work for months.

1497
00:53:36,780 --> 00:53:38,715
He could travel, but he was

1498
00:53:38,715 --> 00:53:40,083
still banned from writing,

1499
00:53:40,083 --> 00:53:43,153
tweeting, or appearing on TV.

1500
00:53:43,153 --> 00:53:44,821
>> He was still hoping that this

1501
00:53:44,821 --> 00:53:46,489
decree or order will be

1502
00:53:46,489 --> 00:53:47,691
reversed.

1503
00:53:47,691 --> 00:53:49,926
So he said, "Maybe if I toe the

1504
00:53:49,926 --> 00:53:51,361
line for a while, then they

1505
00:53:51,361 --> 00:53:53,330
change."

1506
00:53:53,330 --> 00:53:54,831
Then I see him later, and still

1507
00:53:54,831 --> 00:53:57,300
the order has not been changed.

1508
00:53:57,300 --> 00:53:58,702
I remember him saying, you know,

1509
00:53:58,702 --> 00:53:59,869
"I have to do something about

1510
00:53:59,869 --> 00:54:00,604
this.

1511
00:54:01,271 --> 00:54:04,240
Me being at home, not being able

1512
00:54:04,240 --> 00:54:06,309
to, you know, tweet, write,

1513
00:54:06,309 --> 00:54:09,245
especially write, is-is-is no

1514
00:54:09,245 --> 00:54:10,480
longer bearable."

1515
00:54:10,480 --> 00:54:14,417
♪ ♪

1516
00:54:21,057 --> 00:54:22,559
>> What has been described as a

1517
00:54:22,559 --> 00:54:24,160
coordinated crackdown on dissent

1518
00:54:24,160 --> 00:54:25,161
in the country.

1519
00:54:25,161 --> 00:54:26,363
>> Saudi authorities have

1520
00:54:26,363 --> 00:54:27,564
carried out arrests of over 40

1521
00:54:27,564 --> 00:54:28,832
critics...

1522
00:54:28,832 --> 00:54:30,066
>> More than a dozen prominent

1523
00:54:30,066 --> 00:54:32,469
women's activists were arrested.

1524
00:54:32,469 --> 00:54:33,970
>> SMITH: Then, in September

1525
00:54:33,970 --> 00:54:36,306
2017, Mohammed bin Salman's

1526
00:54:36,306 --> 00:54:37,674
purges began.

1527
00:54:37,674 --> 00:54:39,542
>> They arrested a huge number

1528
00:54:39,542 --> 00:54:41,478
of liberal-minded reformers.

1529
00:54:41,478 --> 00:54:42,545
>> SMITH: Dozens of men and

1530
00:54:42,545 --> 00:54:44,848
women-- writers, academics,

1531
00:54:44,848 --> 00:54:46,449
businesspeople, and an

1532
00:54:46,449 --> 00:54:49,152
economist-- were rounded up.

1533
00:54:49,152 --> 00:54:50,754
>> The crown prince is clear.

1534
00:54:50,754 --> 00:54:52,389
Anybody who goes against him,

1535
00:54:52,389 --> 00:54:53,590
they're in trouble.

1536
00:54:53,590 --> 00:54:54,824
>> SMITH: Essam al-Zamil had

1537
00:54:54,824 --> 00:54:56,559
just returned from the U.S.,

1538
00:54:56,559 --> 00:54:57,761
where he had been part of an

1539
00:54:57,761 --> 00:54:59,462
official Saudi delegation.

1540
00:55:02,432 --> 00:55:03,633
>> SMITH: But in a series of

1541
00:55:03,633 --> 00:55:05,635
posts on social media, he had

1542
00:55:05,635 --> 00:55:07,337
cast doubt on Prince Mohammed's

1543
00:55:07,337 --> 00:55:09,139
valuation of a Saudi Aramco

1544
00:55:09,139 --> 00:55:10,407
I.P.O.

1545
00:55:14,210 --> 00:55:15,545
>> SMITH: That would lead to his

1546
00:55:15,545 --> 00:55:17,747
arrest.

1547
00:55:17,747 --> 00:55:19,382
After a year in prison, he was

1548
00:55:19,382 --> 00:55:21,951
charged for "Seeking to stir up

1549
00:55:21,951 --> 00:55:23,620
sedition in the Kingdom through

1550
00:55:23,620 --> 00:55:25,622
his Twitter account."

1551
00:55:27,824 --> 00:55:29,392
Prominent religious figures were

1552
00:55:29,392 --> 00:55:31,127
also arrested.

1553
00:55:31,127 --> 00:55:32,629
One of the most well-known was

1554
00:55:32,629 --> 00:55:33,897
Salman al Awdah.

1555
00:55:35,031 --> 00:55:36,566
Among those outside of the

1556
00:55:36,566 --> 00:55:39,202
official clerical establishment,

1557
00:55:39,202 --> 00:55:40,637
does anyone compare to your

1558
00:55:40,637 --> 00:55:41,671
father in terms of popularity?

1559
00:55:42,839 --> 00:55:45,375
>> None whatsoever.

1560
00:55:45,375 --> 00:55:47,377
I mean, he's being followed by

1561
00:55:47,377 --> 00:55:49,078
14 million followers.

1562
00:55:49,078 --> 00:55:50,814
The king has six or seven

1563
00:55:50,814 --> 00:55:52,849
million followers.

1564
00:55:53,817 --> 00:55:54,818
>> SMITH: At the time of his

1565
00:55:54,818 --> 00:55:56,686
arrest, the Saudi-led boycott of

1566
00:55:56,686 --> 00:55:59,622
Qatar was in its third month.

1567
00:55:59,622 --> 00:56:00,924
In this tweet, al-Awdah

1568
00:56:00,924 --> 00:56:02,358
expressed hope that the two

1569
00:56:02,358 --> 00:56:04,461
leaders-- MBS and the emir of

1570
00:56:04,461 --> 00:56:07,564
Qatar-- could be reconciled.

1571
00:56:07,564 --> 00:56:09,799
>> He was just praying.

1572
00:56:09,799 --> 00:56:11,601
And they said literally to him,

1573
00:56:11,601 --> 00:56:14,871
"Neutrality in this crisis is

1574
00:56:14,871 --> 00:56:16,372
treason."

1575
00:56:16,372 --> 00:56:22,278
♪ ♪

1576
00:56:22,278 --> 00:56:23,847
>> SMITH: That led to his

1577
00:56:23,847 --> 00:56:25,181
arrest, in fact?

1578
00:56:25,181 --> 00:56:25,982
>> Yeah.

1579
00:56:25,982 --> 00:56:26,983
That's why they are seeking

1580
00:56:26,983 --> 00:56:28,384
death penalty against him right

1581
00:56:28,384 --> 00:56:30,420
now.

1582
00:56:30,420 --> 00:56:31,955
For Mohammed bin Salman, these

1583
00:56:31,955 --> 00:56:34,324
are threats to his absolute

1584
00:56:34,324 --> 00:56:35,325
authority.

1585
00:56:35,325 --> 00:56:38,928
♪ ♪

1586
00:56:38,928 --> 00:56:40,396
>> SMITH: Al-Awdah was charged

1587
00:56:40,396 --> 00:56:42,732
with a total of 37 offenses,

1588
00:56:42,732 --> 00:56:45,034
including "Spreading discord

1589
00:56:45,034 --> 00:56:48,438
and inciting against the ruler."

1590
00:56:48,938 --> 00:56:51,140
>> He was probably the foremost

1591
00:56:51,140 --> 00:56:52,575
figure in Saudi Arabia

1592
00:56:52,575 --> 00:56:54,644
associated with a kind of

1593
00:56:54,644 --> 00:56:56,045
religious-reform current that

1594
00:56:56,045 --> 00:56:57,847
leaned towards democracy.

1595
00:56:58,615 --> 00:57:00,717
So whatever the kingdom says

1596
00:57:00,717 --> 00:57:02,485
they've arrested him for, they

1597
00:57:02,485 --> 00:57:03,686
really arrested him for being

1598
00:57:03,686 --> 00:57:04,354
Salman al-Awdah.

1599
00:57:05,288 --> 00:57:06,256
>> SMITH: Tell me how your

1600
00:57:06,256 --> 00:57:07,257
father was treated when he was

1601
00:57:07,257 --> 00:57:08,324
arrested.

1602
00:57:08,324 --> 00:57:10,193
>> He was treated really, really

1603
00:57:10,193 --> 00:57:11,361
badly.

1604
00:57:11,361 --> 00:57:13,229
♪ ♪

1605
00:57:14,531 --> 00:57:17,100
He was blindfolded, handcuffed

1606
00:57:17,100 --> 00:57:21,738
all the time, even in the cell.

1607
00:57:21,738 --> 00:57:25,108
Chains were put on his feet.

1608
00:57:25,108 --> 00:57:27,544
He was interrogated for days,

1609
00:57:27,544 --> 00:57:29,379
continuously, without allowing

1610
00:57:29,379 --> 00:57:31,214
him to sleep.

1611
00:57:31,214 --> 00:57:37,820
♪ ♪

1612
00:57:37,820 --> 00:57:38,955
>> SMITH: As reports of the

1613
00:57:38,955 --> 00:57:40,723
arrests appeared, Jamal

1614
00:57:40,723 --> 00:57:42,692
Khashoggi's name began surfacing

1615
00:57:42,692 --> 00:57:44,260
in articles.

1616
00:57:44,260 --> 00:57:45,428
An editor at "The Washington

1617
00:57:45,428 --> 00:57:47,263
Post" took notice.

1618
00:57:48,531 --> 00:57:50,233
>> We were hearing the reports

1619
00:57:50,233 --> 00:57:52,201
about the crackdown.

1620
00:57:52,201 --> 00:57:56,072
And I saw Jamal Khashoggi's name

1621
00:57:56,072 --> 00:57:57,574
being quoted a few pieces about

1622
00:57:57,574 --> 00:58:00,276
the situation.

1623
00:58:00,276 --> 00:58:02,045
And I just figured, "Well, why

1624
00:58:02,045 --> 00:58:04,113
not reach out to him?"

1625
00:58:04,113 --> 00:58:06,182
And so I gave him a call.

1626
00:58:07,617 --> 00:58:09,852
♪ ♪

1627
00:58:09,852 --> 00:58:11,187
>> SMITH: Khashoggi had recently

1628
00:58:11,187 --> 00:58:13,256
left Saudi Arabia.

1629
00:58:13,256 --> 00:58:15,058
When he'd settled in DC, I sat

1630
00:58:15,058 --> 00:58:17,393
down to talk with him.

1631
00:58:17,393 --> 00:58:19,128
Before all our cameras were

1632
00:58:19,128 --> 00:58:21,030
rolling, he spoke personally for

1633
00:58:21,030 --> 00:58:22,265
a moment.

1634
00:58:22,265 --> 00:58:23,633
He told me he was uncertain

1635
00:58:23,633 --> 00:58:25,101
about what he would do here.

1636
00:58:37,847 --> 00:58:38,381
>> SMITH: Muzzled.

1637
00:58:44,921 --> 00:58:46,289
>> SMITH: Soon after, Khashoggi

1638
00:58:46,289 --> 00:58:48,358
decided what to do.

1639
00:58:48,358 --> 00:58:49,792
He published his first column in

1640
00:58:49,792 --> 00:58:52,095
"The Washington Post."

1641
00:58:52,095 --> 00:58:53,963
"Saudi Arabia wasn't always this

1642
00:58:53,963 --> 00:58:55,164
repressive.

1643
00:58:55,164 --> 00:58:57,667
Now it's unbearable."

1644
00:58:57,667 --> 00:58:59,235
>> He was upset when Salman

1645
00:58:59,235 --> 00:59:01,037
Awdah was arrested.

1646
00:59:01,037 --> 00:59:02,271
He was upset when other

1647
00:59:02,271 --> 00:59:04,040
activists was arrested.

1648
00:59:04,040 --> 00:59:05,241
And he kept saying, "These are

1649
00:59:05,241 --> 00:59:06,275
moderate people.

1650
00:59:06,275 --> 00:59:07,577
These are not the extremists.

1651
00:59:07,577 --> 00:59:08,778
And they are arresting the

1652
00:59:08,778 --> 00:59:10,013
moderate people."

1653
00:59:10,013 --> 00:59:11,814
♪ ♪

1654
00:59:14,217 --> 00:59:16,486
>> I think he was in some ways

1655
00:59:16,486 --> 00:59:18,688
confused about the situation.

1656
00:59:18,688 --> 00:59:21,124
I mean, he really supported the

1657
00:59:21,124 --> 00:59:22,959
vision of the reforms that

1658
00:59:22,959 --> 00:59:24,661
Mohammed bin Salman had.

1659
00:59:27,830 --> 00:59:29,565
I mean, it was a very personal

1660
00:59:29,565 --> 00:59:31,234
essay.

1661
00:59:31,234 --> 00:59:34,137
You see that he was wrestling

1662
00:59:34,137 --> 00:59:36,339
with his decision to speak out

1663
00:59:36,339 --> 00:59:39,442
or not.

1664
00:59:39,442 --> 00:59:41,444
And we decided to translate it

1665
00:59:41,444 --> 00:59:44,380
into Arabic, so that people in

1666
00:59:44,380 --> 00:59:45,481
the whole Arab world could read

1667
00:59:45,481 --> 00:59:46,215
it.

1668
00:59:46,215 --> 00:59:47,350
>> SMITH: Did you recognize at

1669
00:59:47,350 --> 00:59:48,451
that point that there was any

1670
00:59:48,451 --> 00:59:50,587
danger in this for him?

1671
00:59:51,354 --> 00:59:52,321
>> Mortal danger?

1672
00:59:52,321 --> 00:59:54,223
No.

1673
00:59:54,223 --> 00:59:55,591
Personal sacrifices?

1674
00:59:55,591 --> 00:59:57,160
Yes, of course.

1675
00:59:57,160 --> 01:00:02,131
♪ ♪

1676
01:00:06,002 --> 01:00:09,772
>> SMITH: Then came November.

1677
01:00:09,772 --> 01:00:11,040
First, the prime minister of

1678
01:00:11,040 --> 01:00:13,142
Lebanon, Saad Hariri, was

1679
01:00:13,142 --> 01:00:16,179
ordered to come to Riyadh.

1680
01:00:16,179 --> 01:00:17,847
>> He was asked to come to the

1681
01:00:17,847 --> 01:00:20,717
palace for a meeting, and he was

1682
01:00:20,717 --> 01:00:22,318
taken away, put in a room.

1683
01:00:22,318 --> 01:00:23,219
>> SMITH: He's handcuffed,

1684
01:00:23,219 --> 01:00:24,153
he's...

1685
01:00:24,153 --> 01:00:25,188
>> He's slapped, he's

1686
01:00:25,188 --> 01:00:26,723
maltreated.

1687
01:00:26,723 --> 01:00:27,690
>> SMITH: The Saudis charged

1688
01:00:27,690 --> 01:00:29,358
that Hariri had not done enough

1689
01:00:29,358 --> 01:00:31,094
to counter Iranian influence in

1690
01:00:31,094 --> 01:00:31,594
Lebanon.

1691
01:00:35,264 --> 01:00:36,532
>> SMITH: He was put on a Saudi

1692
01:00:36,532 --> 01:00:38,167
TV channel, reading a

1693
01:00:38,167 --> 01:00:39,936
resignation letter.

1694
01:00:39,936 --> 01:00:42,071
>> A truly remarkable event.

1695
01:00:42,071 --> 01:00:44,240
Prime Minister Hariri is

1696
01:00:44,240 --> 01:00:45,942
essentially ordered-- more or

1697
01:00:45,942 --> 01:00:47,477
less at gunpoint-- to give up

1698
01:00:47,477 --> 01:00:48,177
his job.

1699
01:00:51,647 --> 01:00:52,715
>> SMITH: He said he was

1700
01:00:52,715 --> 01:00:54,450
resigning because Iran was

1701
01:00:54,450 --> 01:00:56,519
interfering in Lebanon and

1702
01:00:56,519 --> 01:00:58,354
fomenting "discord and

1703
01:00:58,354 --> 01:01:00,123
destruction in the region."

1704
01:01:06,429 --> 01:01:08,131
>> The kind of aggressive tone

1705
01:01:08,131 --> 01:01:09,465
against Iran is not something

1706
01:01:09,465 --> 01:01:11,033
that Hariri has endorsed or will

1707
01:01:11,033 --> 01:01:12,001
endorse.

1708
01:01:12,001 --> 01:01:13,436
And so they knew it was a forced

1709
01:01:13,436 --> 01:01:16,739
resignation.

1710
01:01:16,739 --> 01:01:17,840
>> SMITH: He was eventually

1711
01:01:17,840 --> 01:01:19,675
released and would rescind his

1712
01:01:19,675 --> 01:01:21,210
resignation.

1713
01:01:21,210 --> 01:01:22,745
But there was more.

1714
01:01:22,745 --> 01:01:24,147
>> Mohammed bin Salman is

1715
01:01:24,147 --> 01:01:25,748
flexing his political muscle in

1716
01:01:25,748 --> 01:01:27,950
ways not seen before...

1717
01:01:27,950 --> 01:01:29,252
>> SMITH: On the very same day

1718
01:01:29,252 --> 01:01:32,021
Hariri was detained, MBS began

1719
01:01:32,021 --> 01:01:34,090
rounding up 200 of the Kingdom's

1720
01:01:34,090 --> 01:01:35,691
richest businessmen and most

1721
01:01:35,691 --> 01:01:37,193
powerful princes.

1722
01:01:37,193 --> 01:01:38,961
>> These are incredible times in

1723
01:01:38,961 --> 01:01:39,962
Saudi Arabia.

1724
01:01:39,962 --> 01:01:41,264
>> Some of the detainees

1725
01:01:41,264 --> 01:01:42,999
reportedly held here, Riyadh's

1726
01:01:42,999 --> 01:01:44,667
glamorous Ritz-Carlton.

1727
01:01:44,667 --> 01:01:45,668
>> ...especially the older

1728
01:01:45,668 --> 01:01:47,637
guard, are extremely worried by

1729
01:01:47,637 --> 01:01:49,272
these changes...

1730
01:01:49,272 --> 01:01:50,773
>> The Ritz was in essence the

1731
01:01:50,773 --> 01:01:52,809
Big Bang.

1732
01:01:52,809 --> 01:01:54,443
It brought in a massive number

1733
01:01:54,443 --> 01:01:56,179
of people.

1734
01:01:56,179 --> 01:01:58,381
They were presented with very

1735
01:01:58,381 --> 01:02:00,082
detailed files of their

1736
01:02:00,082 --> 01:02:03,386
financial shenanigans.

1737
01:02:03,386 --> 01:02:05,721
And were in essence told, "You

1738
01:02:05,721 --> 01:02:07,690
need to repay what you have

1739
01:02:07,690 --> 01:02:08,791
taken from the Kingdom by

1740
01:02:08,791 --> 01:02:10,927
exploiting your position or your

1741
01:02:10,927 --> 01:02:12,028
contacts."

1742
01:02:12,028 --> 01:02:13,029
>> SMITH: And if they pushed

1743
01:02:13,029 --> 01:02:14,664
back or they refused to pay,

1744
01:02:14,664 --> 01:02:15,865
what was the consequence?

1745
01:02:15,865 --> 01:02:18,267
>> They didn't leave.

1746
01:02:18,267 --> 01:02:19,268
>> I have a personal friend

1747
01:02:19,268 --> 01:02:20,169
who was arrested.

1748
01:02:20,169 --> 01:02:20,803
>> SMITH: Who was that?

1749
01:02:21,170 --> 01:02:22,238
>> I'm not going to name him,

1750
01:02:22,238 --> 01:02:23,372
but I mean, he-he-he went

1751
01:02:23,372 --> 01:02:25,208
through in detail.

1752
01:02:25,541 --> 01:02:26,609
He was brought to the Ritz at

1753
01:02:26,609 --> 01:02:28,110
4:00 a.m. in the morning.

1754
01:02:28,110 --> 01:02:33,516
♪ ♪

1755
01:02:33,516 --> 01:02:34,784
He said it was extremely

1756
01:02:34,784 --> 01:02:36,352
well-organized.

1757
01:02:36,352 --> 01:02:37,553
They checked him in, gave him a

1758
01:02:37,553 --> 01:02:39,956
medical test, asked him if he

1759
01:02:39,956 --> 01:02:41,190
had any medicines that he

1760
01:02:41,190 --> 01:02:43,092
needed, and then gave him a

1761
01:02:43,092 --> 01:02:45,294
room...

1762
01:02:48,164 --> 01:02:49,532
Where the door had to be kept

1763
01:02:49,532 --> 01:02:51,267
open, but he had full access to

1764
01:02:51,267 --> 01:02:53,102
room service and a TV.

1765
01:02:53,102 --> 01:02:54,303
And he was interrogated, I

1766
01:02:54,303 --> 01:02:55,471
think, for a month.

1767
01:02:55,471 --> 01:03:01,110
♪ ♪

1768
01:03:01,110 --> 01:03:03,846
And then he was released.

1769
01:03:03,846 --> 01:03:05,147
Now, I don't know if he settled

1770
01:03:05,147 --> 01:03:06,816
anything, but by standards,

1771
01:03:06,816 --> 01:03:08,417
frankly, I would have rather

1772
01:03:08,417 --> 01:03:09,785
been arrested like him than be

1773
01:03:09,785 --> 01:03:11,254
arrested in a jail in America.

1774
01:03:11,254 --> 01:03:12,388
♪ ♪

1775
01:03:12,388 --> 01:03:13,823
>> They say it's all about

1776
01:03:13,823 --> 01:03:14,824
corruption.

1777
01:03:14,824 --> 01:03:16,259
I really don't believe that.

1778
01:03:16,259 --> 01:03:17,493
>> There are others who are

1779
01:03:17,493 --> 01:03:18,995
whispering about whether this is

1780
01:03:18,995 --> 01:03:20,496
really about a consolidation of

1781
01:03:20,496 --> 01:03:23,366
power.

1782
01:03:23,366 --> 01:03:24,634
>> SMITH: Corruption was

1783
01:03:24,634 --> 01:03:27,370
pervasive in the Kingdom.

1784
01:03:27,370 --> 01:03:28,671
How can you describe the level

1785
01:03:28,671 --> 01:03:30,106
of corruption that you were

1786
01:03:30,106 --> 01:03:31,540
facing, that you were confronted

1787
01:03:31,540 --> 01:03:32,308
with?

1788
01:03:32,308 --> 01:03:32,942
How do you make the point?

1789
01:03:33,509 --> 01:03:35,244
>> It was so bad that it was

1790
01:03:35,244 --> 01:03:37,446
actually truly impacting the

1791
01:03:37,446 --> 01:03:39,282
development of-of the country.

1792
01:03:39,282 --> 01:03:40,816
We're talking about billions

1793
01:03:40,816 --> 01:03:42,051
and billions and billions of

1794
01:03:42,051 --> 01:03:43,119
dollars.

1795
01:03:43,119 --> 01:03:45,187
And when we looked at all the

1796
01:03:45,187 --> 01:03:47,189
various options, this was

1797
01:03:47,189 --> 01:03:49,091
probably the best option

1798
01:03:49,091 --> 01:03:49,759
available.

1799
01:03:49,759 --> 01:03:50,760
Was it perfect?

1800
01:03:50,760 --> 01:03:52,495
Absolutely not.

1801
01:03:52,495 --> 01:03:56,966
♪ ♪

1802
01:03:58,901 --> 01:04:00,536
>> SMITH: President Trump

1803
01:04:00,536 --> 01:04:02,505
condoned the round-up.

1804
01:04:02,505 --> 01:04:06,509
♪ ♪

1805
01:04:06,509 --> 01:04:08,010
But for Jamal Khashoggi, it

1806
01:04:08,010 --> 01:04:10,413
wasn't just about corruption.

1807
01:04:12,081 --> 01:04:13,783
"What is absolutely clear after

1808
01:04:13,783 --> 01:04:15,217
Saturday's 'Night of the Long

1809
01:04:15,217 --> 01:04:17,019
Knives' is that Crown Prince

1810
01:04:17,019 --> 01:04:18,487
Mohammed bin Salman is

1811
01:04:18,487 --> 01:04:20,156
centralizing all power within

1812
01:04:20,156 --> 01:04:22,091
his position as crown prince."

1813
01:04:23,125 --> 01:04:26,395
>> He likened MBS to Putin.

1814
01:04:26,395 --> 01:04:28,331
He just saw things getting worse

1815
01:04:28,331 --> 01:04:29,532
and worse and worse.

1816
01:04:33,069 --> 01:04:34,103
>> SMITH: He was very upset by

1817
01:04:34,103 --> 01:04:35,671
the events at the Ritz-Carlton.

1818
01:04:35,671 --> 01:04:36,672
>> And especially by what

1819
01:04:36,672 --> 01:04:39,542
happened to Waleed bin Talal

1820
01:04:39,542 --> 01:04:41,143
>> SMITH: Al-Waleed bin Talal, a

1821
01:04:41,143 --> 01:04:42,878
longtime friend and supporter of

1822
01:04:42,878 --> 01:04:44,947
Khashoggi's, and Saudi Arabia's

1823
01:04:44,947 --> 01:04:47,350
most famous investor.

1824
01:04:47,917 --> 01:04:50,286
>> Jamal Khashoggi's feeling was

1825
01:04:50,286 --> 01:04:52,588
as he would refer to MBS, "If

1826
01:04:52,588 --> 01:04:56,325
this kid was able to go that far

1827
01:04:56,325 --> 01:04:58,694
and arrest somebody like Waleed

1828
01:04:58,694 --> 01:05:01,731
bin Talal, you know, then there

1829
01:05:01,731 --> 01:05:03,833
are no bounds to what he's going

1830
01:05:03,833 --> 01:05:05,167
to do to people like him."

1831
01:05:05,167 --> 01:05:07,003
♪ ♪

1832
01:05:07,903 --> 01:05:08,938
>> SMITH: But it would take time

1833
01:05:08,938 --> 01:05:10,172
for the rest of the world to

1834
01:05:10,172 --> 01:05:11,741
understand the Ritz-Carlton

1835
01:05:11,741 --> 01:05:16,645
purge as Khashoggi had.

1836
01:05:16,645 --> 01:05:18,981
Prince Al-Waleed was held for 83

1837
01:05:18,981 --> 01:05:21,050
days.

1838
01:05:21,050 --> 01:05:22,184
>> What was it like, your Royal

1839
01:05:22,184 --> 01:05:24,020
Highness, being held captive by

1840
01:05:24,020 --> 01:05:25,654
your own cousin?

1841
01:05:25,654 --> 01:05:27,957
>> Frankly speaking, it was not

1842
01:05:27,957 --> 01:05:29,492
easy, you know, I have to

1843
01:05:29,492 --> 01:05:31,727
confess that, to be held

1844
01:05:31,727 --> 01:05:32,762
against your will.

1845
01:05:32,762 --> 01:05:33,763
>> How would you describe your

1846
01:05:33,763 --> 01:05:34,797
relationship?

1847
01:05:34,797 --> 01:05:36,065
>> No one believe it.

1848
01:05:36,065 --> 01:05:37,166
My relationship right now with

1849
01:05:37,166 --> 01:05:38,768
Prince Mohammed bin Salman, this

1850
01:05:38,768 --> 01:05:41,137
guy, is not only as strong as

1851
01:05:41,137 --> 01:05:43,139
before-- stronger.

1852
01:05:43,139 --> 01:05:44,173
And this is shocking to many

1853
01:05:44,173 --> 01:05:45,775
people.

1854
01:05:45,775 --> 01:05:47,076
>> You've forgiven him?

1855
01:05:47,076 --> 01:05:48,210
>> I didn't say forgiven.

1856
01:05:48,210 --> 01:05:49,712
I forgot and forgiven the

1857
01:05:49,712 --> 01:05:50,780
whole process completely,

1858
01:05:50,780 --> 01:05:52,381
It's behind me, completely.

1859
01:05:52,381 --> 01:05:55,251
Completely.

1860
01:05:55,251 --> 01:05:57,453
>> Reports of the Ritz indicate

1861
01:05:57,453 --> 01:05:58,754
that the Saudi government

1862
01:05:58,754 --> 01:06:00,656
tortured detainees, and

1863
01:06:00,656 --> 01:06:01,457
coerced...

1864
01:06:01,457 --> 01:06:02,558
>> SMITH: But as other people

1865
01:06:02,558 --> 01:06:04,627
were released, reports of abuse

1866
01:06:04,627 --> 01:06:06,529
and torture seeped out to the

1867
01:06:06,529 --> 01:06:07,530
press.

1868
01:06:07,530 --> 01:06:08,831
>> Inmates required to sign over

1869
01:06:08,831 --> 01:06:10,266
their fortunes in order to be

1870
01:06:10,266 --> 01:06:11,167
released.

1871
01:06:11,167 --> 01:06:12,168
>> SMITH: Family members of

1872
01:06:12,168 --> 01:06:13,969
detainees have told reporters

1873
01:06:13,969 --> 01:06:16,038
that MBS's close aide, Saud

1874
01:06:16,038 --> 01:06:17,940
al-Qahtani, acted as their

1875
01:06:17,940 --> 01:06:19,108
interrogator.

1876
01:06:19,475 --> 01:06:21,110
>> What's been pretty clear is

1877
01:06:21,110 --> 01:06:24,713
that he played a principal role

1878
01:06:24,713 --> 01:06:27,049
in the Ritz-Carlton being turned

1879
01:06:27,049 --> 01:06:29,385
into this gold-plated prison.

1880
01:06:29,952 --> 01:06:31,687
There were gradations of

1881
01:06:31,687 --> 01:06:34,223
treatment, and the death of at

1882
01:06:34,223 --> 01:06:36,926
least one person in custody, a

1883
01:06:36,926 --> 01:06:39,428
general, the story was that he

1884
01:06:39,428 --> 01:06:40,729
died of a heart attack.

1885
01:06:40,729 --> 01:06:41,997
But according to family

1886
01:06:41,997 --> 01:06:43,232
members, he had been beaten

1887
01:06:43,232 --> 01:06:44,600
severely.

1888
01:06:44,600 --> 01:06:48,404
♪ ♪

1889
01:06:48,404 --> 01:06:50,072
>> SMITH: There were reports of

1890
01:06:50,072 --> 01:06:51,574
harsh treatment, beatings

1891
01:06:51,574 --> 01:06:52,174
and even death━

1892
01:06:52,174 --> 01:06:53,442
>> I heard those reports, but

1893
01:06:53,442 --> 01:06:54,710
I've never seen any-any

1894
01:06:54,710 --> 01:06:55,711
reflection of that.

1895
01:06:55,711 --> 01:06:56,979
>> SMITH: You have no suspicion

1896
01:06:56,979 --> 01:06:57,880
about beatings?

1897
01:06:57,880 --> 01:06:58,614
>> None whatsoever, none

1898
01:06:58,614 --> 01:06:59,348
whatsoever.

1899
01:07:00,216 --> 01:07:01,851
And the fact that-that these

1900
01:07:01,851 --> 01:07:04,854
people were put up in-in-in the

1901
01:07:04,854 --> 01:07:07,923
Ritz-Carlton, to me indicates

1902
01:07:07,923 --> 01:07:10,626
that the intention is-is not

1903
01:07:10,626 --> 01:07:12,394
to... (laughs)

1904
01:07:12,394 --> 01:07:14,530
...to inflict physical or

1905
01:07:14,530 --> 01:07:16,966
emotional harm on them, but

1906
01:07:16,966 --> 01:07:18,034
rather to get to the truth.

1907
01:07:19,335 --> 01:07:20,503
>> SMITH: Do you believe anybody

1908
01:07:20,503 --> 01:07:23,139
was coerced physically at the

1909
01:07:23,139 --> 01:07:24,206
Ritz-Carlton?

1910
01:07:24,206 --> 01:07:25,875
>> I don't know.

1911
01:07:25,875 --> 01:07:27,076
>> SMITH: It's possible.

1912
01:07:27,076 --> 01:07:28,144
>> Anything is possible.

1913
01:07:28,144 --> 01:07:29,278
All I can say is that the

1914
01:07:29,278 --> 01:07:30,980
exercise was to bring in very

1915
01:07:30,980 --> 01:07:32,781
senior members of the Saudi

1916
01:07:32,781 --> 01:07:34,817
financial, business community

1917
01:07:34,817 --> 01:07:36,619
and say, "You have money which

1918
01:07:36,619 --> 01:07:37,486
doesn't belong to you.

1919
01:07:37,887 --> 01:07:39,121
It belongs to the Saudi people.

1920
01:07:39,121 --> 01:07:40,523
We would like that back.

1921
01:07:40,523 --> 01:07:41,891
Now go out and live your life

1922
01:07:41,891 --> 01:07:43,859
the way you did previously."

1923
01:07:43,859 --> 01:07:47,329
♪ ♪

1924
01:07:47,329 --> 01:07:50,065
>> SMITH: Easier said than done.

1925
01:07:50,065 --> 01:07:52,067
>> You know now, ministers and

1926
01:07:52,067 --> 01:07:54,837
princes and big businesspeople

1927
01:07:54,837 --> 01:07:55,871
are locked up.

1928
01:07:56,238 --> 01:07:58,240
Even once they're let out, I'm

1929
01:07:58,240 --> 01:07:59,875
told at least, most of them

1930
01:07:59,875 --> 01:08:01,377
have ankle bracelets, they

1931
01:08:01,377 --> 01:08:02,912
cannot fly.

1932
01:08:03,512 --> 01:08:05,748
They have been publicly

1933
01:08:05,748 --> 01:08:08,584
humiliated and put under

1934
01:08:08,584 --> 01:08:10,386
constant observation.

1935
01:08:10,386 --> 01:08:13,622
♪ ♪

1936
01:08:13,622 --> 01:08:14,623
>> SMITH: Just after the

1937
01:08:14,623 --> 01:08:16,457
Ritz-Carlton arrests, I had

1938
01:08:16,457 --> 01:08:18,460
asked MBS again to sit down

1939
01:08:18,460 --> 01:08:19,562
for an interview.

1940
01:08:36,278 --> 01:08:38,514
♪ ♪

1941
01:08:38,514 --> 01:08:40,515
Meanwhile, MBS's war in Yemen

1942
01:08:40,515 --> 01:08:43,886
had gone from bad to worse.

1943
01:08:43,886 --> 01:08:46,322
In November 2017, after a Houthi

1944
01:08:46,322 --> 01:08:48,424
missile landed near Riyadh, the

1945
01:08:48,424 --> 01:08:50,225
Saudis imposed a blockade,

1946
01:08:50,225 --> 01:08:52,461
making it impossible for food or

1947
01:08:52,461 --> 01:08:56,098
fuel to get through.

1948
01:08:56,098 --> 01:08:57,399
Two thirds of the country's

1949
01:08:57,399 --> 01:08:59,234
population was already facing

1950
01:08:59,234 --> 01:09:00,769
food shortages.

1951
01:09:00,769 --> 01:09:02,171
Hospitals were overwhelmed with

1952
01:09:02,171 --> 01:09:04,607
an outbreak of cholera.

1953
01:09:04,607 --> 01:09:10,112
♪ ♪

1954
01:09:10,112 --> 01:09:12,247
(baby crying distantly)

1955
01:09:12,247 --> 01:09:14,683
After international pressure,

1956
01:09:14,683 --> 01:09:16,618
the Saudis eased the blockade.

1957
01:09:16,618 --> 01:09:18,319
But civilian casualties from air

1958
01:09:18,319 --> 01:09:20,189
attacks and land mines continued

1959
01:09:20,189 --> 01:09:21,023
to mount.

1960
01:09:21,557 --> 01:09:23,325
(translator):

1961
01:09:30,799 --> 01:09:31,834
>> SMITH: Spokesman for the

1962
01:09:31,834 --> 01:09:33,569
Saudi-led campaign in Yemen,

1963
01:09:33,569 --> 01:09:36,537
Major General Ahmed al-Asiri.

1964
01:09:36,537 --> 01:09:38,107
>> Let me tell you something.

1965
01:09:38,107 --> 01:09:39,308
When you conduct a military

1966
01:09:39,308 --> 01:09:41,977
operation, mistake could happen.

1967
01:09:41,977 --> 01:09:43,578
And there is no single

1968
01:09:43,578 --> 01:09:44,647
allegation we does not

1969
01:09:44,647 --> 01:09:45,648
investigate.

1970
01:09:45,648 --> 01:09:46,649
>> SMITH: Do you have a count of

1971
01:09:46,649 --> 01:09:48,050
the number of civilian deaths

1972
01:09:48,050 --> 01:09:49,752
that have resulted from your

1973
01:09:49,752 --> 01:09:50,685
operations?

1974
01:09:50,685 --> 01:09:51,620
How many civilians have died as

1975
01:09:51,620 --> 01:09:52,520
a result?

1976
01:09:52,520 --> 01:09:53,656
>> No, we don't have numbers of

1977
01:09:53,656 --> 01:09:55,658
civilian death of, cause of

1978
01:09:55,658 --> 01:09:56,859
the... the Yemeni government

1979
01:09:56,859 --> 01:09:57,660
have this.

1980
01:09:57,660 --> 01:09:58,694
>> SMITH: Okay, what was their

1981
01:09:58,694 --> 01:09:59,595
number?

1982
01:09:59,595 --> 01:10:02,231
>> Ask the Yemeni government.

1983
01:10:02,231 --> 01:10:04,466
>> SMITH: By the end of 2017,

1984
01:10:04,466 --> 01:10:05,834
thousands of civilians had

1985
01:10:05,834 --> 01:10:09,004
already been killed, many more

1986
01:10:09,004 --> 01:10:10,806
wounded.

1987
01:10:10,806 --> 01:10:14,710
(shouting playfully)

1988
01:10:14,710 --> 01:10:15,311
♪ ♪

1989
01:10:15,311 --> 01:10:17,913
(music playing on speaker)

1990
01:10:17,913 --> 01:10:22,084
♪ ♪

1991
01:10:22,084 --> 01:10:22,684
Despite the rising death toll,

1992
01:10:22,684 --> 01:10:23,352
when Prince Mohammed arrived 

1993
01:10:23,352 --> 01:10:24,653
at the White House a few months

1994
01:10:24,653 --> 01:10:26,422
later, President Trump was

1995
01:10:26,422 --> 01:10:28,957
pushing him to buy more weapons.

1996
01:10:28,957 --> 01:10:30,326
>> We make the best military

1997
01:10:30,326 --> 01:10:31,894
product in the world, whether

1998
01:10:31,894 --> 01:10:33,462
it's missiles or planes, or

1999
01:10:33,462 --> 01:10:34,730
anything else, there's nobody

2000
01:10:34,730 --> 01:10:36,031
that even comes close.

2001
01:10:36,031 --> 01:10:37,766
>> Some of the things that have

2002
01:10:37,766 --> 01:10:39,868
been approved and are currently

2003
01:10:39,868 --> 01:10:41,403
under construction and will be

2004
01:10:41,403 --> 01:10:43,806
delivered to Saudi Arabia very

2005
01:10:43,806 --> 01:10:44,940
soon, and that's for their

2006
01:10:44,940 --> 01:10:45,974
protection.

2007
01:10:45,974 --> 01:10:48,277
But if you look in terms of

2008
01:10:48,277 --> 01:10:50,279
dollars-- $3 billion,

2009
01:10:50,279 --> 01:10:57,920
$533 million, $525 million--

2010
01:10:57,920 --> 01:10:58,620
that's peanuts for you,

2011
01:10:58,620 --> 01:11:00,456
should have increased it.

2012
01:11:00,456 --> 01:11:01,623
$880...

2013
01:11:01,623 --> 01:11:03,659
♪ ♪

2014
01:11:03,659 --> 01:11:04,727
>> SMITH: The visit was the

2015
01:11:04,727 --> 01:11:06,395
beginning of a nearly three-week

2016
01:11:06,395 --> 01:11:08,564
tour of the U.S.

2017
01:11:08,564 --> 01:11:10,065
Even with his purges and the

2018
01:11:10,065 --> 01:11:12,134
war in Yemen, Prince Mohammed's

2019
01:11:12,134 --> 01:11:14,103
popularity as a reformer was

2020
01:11:14,103 --> 01:11:15,871
reaching its peak.

2021
01:11:16,205 --> 01:11:17,306
>> You'll remember he came to

2022
01:11:17,306 --> 01:11:18,774
the United States and was

2023
01:11:18,774 --> 01:11:20,909
lauded, literally from coast to

2024
01:11:20,909 --> 01:11:22,111
coast.

2025
01:11:22,111 --> 01:11:23,245
>> He will have visited five

2026
01:11:23,245 --> 01:11:24,780
states, four presidents, five

2027
01:11:24,780 --> 01:11:27,449
newspapers, uncounted moguls,

2028
01:11:27,449 --> 01:11:28,584
and Oprah.

2029
01:11:28,584 --> 01:11:29,752
>> He was praised as a

2030
01:11:29,752 --> 01:11:32,888
revolutionary, as the Saudi

2031
01:11:32,888 --> 01:11:35,224
reformer, as the head of what

2032
01:11:35,224 --> 01:11:37,259
would be the Saudi Spring.

2033
01:11:37,259 --> 01:11:38,594
>> America, should the world

2034
01:11:38,594 --> 01:11:39,728
buy what the crown prince is

2035
01:11:39,728 --> 01:11:40,662
selling?

2036
01:11:40,662 --> 01:11:42,765
>> He seems to be sincere.

2037
01:11:42,765 --> 01:11:46,435
>> It was a major PR operation.

2038
01:11:46,435 --> 01:11:48,837
Part of that operation was Wall

2039
01:11:48,837 --> 01:11:51,874
Street titans, Silicon Valley,

2040
01:11:51,874 --> 01:11:54,510
and Hollywood.

2041
01:11:54,510 --> 01:11:56,078
>> The tech people, the movie

2042
01:11:56,078 --> 01:11:58,013
people, their eyes were quite

2043
01:11:58,013 --> 01:11:59,615
glittering.

2044
01:11:59,615 --> 01:12:01,116
There was this new opening of

2045
01:12:01,116 --> 01:12:02,751
people who hadn't made money

2046
01:12:02,751 --> 01:12:04,486
there before.

2047
01:12:04,486 --> 01:12:05,921
>> People were mesmerized.

2048
01:12:05,921 --> 01:12:07,389
>> You did have this sit-down

2049
01:12:07,389 --> 01:12:08,724
with MBS.

2050
01:12:08,724 --> 01:12:10,159
>> Notable journalists in 

2051
01:12:10,159 --> 01:12:11,193
the U.S.

2052
01:12:11,193 --> 01:12:12,561
Thomas Friedman, has actually

2053
01:12:12,561 --> 01:12:13,729
embraced him big-time.

2054
01:12:13,729 --> 01:12:14,897
>> He's not just leading this

2055
01:12:14,897 --> 01:12:16,565
from the top down, whoa!

2056
01:12:16,565 --> 01:12:18,000
It is exploding from the bottom

2057
01:12:18,000 --> 01:12:19,001
up.

2058
01:12:19,001 --> 01:12:20,235
>> SMITH: He also made a point

2059
01:12:20,235 --> 01:12:21,637
of meeting with Jewish-American

2060
01:12:21,637 --> 01:12:22,471
groups in New York.

2061
01:12:24,206 --> 01:12:25,974
>> To win the support of Jewish

2062
01:12:25,974 --> 01:12:28,143
leadership, he needed to say

2063
01:12:28,143 --> 01:12:31,246
something different about Israel

2064
01:12:31,246 --> 01:12:32,548
and about the Palestinians.

2065
01:12:32,948 --> 01:12:34,049
And he did.

2066
01:12:34,049 --> 01:12:35,717
>> The crown prince says that

2067
01:12:35,717 --> 01:12:36,952
Israelis should have the right

2068
01:12:36,952 --> 01:12:39,221
to their own land, this will be

2069
01:12:39,221 --> 01:12:41,390
the prelude of a new era, a new

2070
01:12:41,390 --> 01:12:42,958
relationship between Saudi

2071
01:12:42,958 --> 01:12:44,226
Arabia and Israel.

2072
01:12:44,226 --> 01:12:45,227
>> SMITH: He also granted

2073
01:12:45,227 --> 01:12:46,962
his first ever American TV

2074
01:12:46,962 --> 01:12:49,131
interview to "60 Minutes."

2075
01:12:49,131 --> 01:12:50,833
>> His reforms inside Saudi

2076
01:12:50,833 --> 01:12:53,735
Arabia have been revolutionary.

2077
01:12:53,735 --> 01:12:55,370
>> SMITH: MBS brought his media

2078
01:12:55,370 --> 01:12:57,673
advisor along with him, Saud

2079
01:12:57,673 --> 01:13:00,609
al-Qahtani.

2080
01:13:00,609 --> 01:13:02,678
>> Are women equal to men?

2081
01:13:02,678 --> 01:13:04,213
>> (translated): Absolutely, we

2082
01:13:04,213 --> 01:13:05,514
are all human beings, and

2083
01:13:05,514 --> 01:13:06,782
there's no difference.

2084
01:13:06,782 --> 01:13:07,883
>> He's pushing through reforms

2085
01:13:07,883 --> 01:13:09,151
that have expanded freedoms

2086
01:13:09,151 --> 01:13:10,686
including those of women, he's a

2087
01:13:10,686 --> 01:13:11,753
fierce opponent of Iran...

2088
01:13:11,753 --> 01:13:12,955
>> He said, "Women are equal to

2089
01:13:12,955 --> 01:13:14,056
men.

2090
01:13:14,056 --> 01:13:15,157
We're going to lift the women

2091
01:13:15,157 --> 01:13:16,091
driving ban.

2092
01:13:16,091 --> 01:13:17,125
We're going to allow more women

2093
01:13:17,125 --> 01:13:18,560
in leadership position."

2094
01:13:18,560 --> 01:13:19,862
So he's saying all the right

2095
01:13:19,862 --> 01:13:20,829
things.

2096
01:13:20,829 --> 01:13:22,130
But you can only deceive people

2097
01:13:22,130 --> 01:13:23,365
that far.

2098
01:13:27,736 --> 01:13:28,971
>> SMITH: Shortly after his

2099
01:13:28,971 --> 01:13:30,405
return home, the ban against

2100
01:13:30,405 --> 01:13:31,907
women driving was due to be

2101
01:13:31,907 --> 01:13:34,376
lifted.

2102
01:13:34,376 --> 01:13:35,611
One of the activists who had

2103
01:13:35,611 --> 01:13:37,679
campaigned for it was Loujan

2104
01:13:37,679 --> 01:13:38,514
al-Hathloul.

2105
01:13:39,648 --> 01:13:41,650
(speaking Arabic):

2106
01:13:44,486 --> 01:13:45,721
>> SMITH: She made headlines in

2107
01:13:45,721 --> 01:13:47,789
2014 when she posted a video of

2108
01:13:47,789 --> 01:13:49,791
herself driving from the U.A.E.

2109
01:13:49,791 --> 01:13:51,627
to Saudi Arabia.

2110
01:13:55,931 --> 01:13:56,965
>> SMITH: She was arrested and

2111
01:13:56,965 --> 01:13:59,101
held for 73 days in a Saudi

2112
01:13:59,101 --> 01:14:02,471
jail and then released.

2113
01:14:02,471 --> 01:14:04,039
But as Saudi women waited for

2114
01:14:04,039 --> 01:14:06,308
the driving ban to end, the

2115
01:14:06,308 --> 01:14:08,243
Royal Court ordered Loujan to

2116
01:14:08,243 --> 01:14:10,212
be rearrested along with other

2117
01:14:10,212 --> 01:14:11,580
prominent women's rights

2118
01:14:11,580 --> 01:14:12,814
activists.

2119
01:14:12,814 --> 01:14:14,783
♪ ♪

2120
01:14:14,783 --> 01:14:15,984
>> We are very much concerned

2121
01:14:15,984 --> 01:14:17,452
about what is going on in Saudi

2122
01:14:17,452 --> 01:14:18,854
Arabia right now.

2123
01:14:18,854 --> 01:14:20,289
>> Security forces swept up one

2124
01:14:20,289 --> 01:14:21,490
of the Kingdom's early

2125
01:14:21,490 --> 01:14:22,958
feminists, but it has come at

2126
01:14:22,958 --> 01:14:24,259
the cost...

2127
01:14:24,259 --> 01:14:26,595
>> I think Mohammed bin Salman

2128
01:14:26,595 --> 01:14:27,829
realized that the women's

2129
01:14:27,829 --> 01:14:29,464
movement in Saudi Arabia is not

2130
01:14:29,464 --> 01:14:31,199
simply about driving, it's about

2131
01:14:31,199 --> 01:14:31,900
rights.

2132
01:14:32,534 --> 01:14:34,069
And they were not going to stop

2133
01:14:34,069 --> 01:14:35,871
at driving a car.

2134
01:14:35,871 --> 01:14:37,773
The car was a symbol of their

2135
01:14:37,773 --> 01:14:39,508
oppression.

2136
01:14:40,108 --> 01:14:41,243
>> SMITH: We spoke to Loujan

2137
01:14:41,243 --> 01:14:42,744
al-Hathloul's sister from her

2138
01:14:42,744 --> 01:14:45,714
home outside Saudi Arabia.

2139
01:14:45,714 --> 01:14:47,082
>> When I learned that Loujan

2140
01:14:47,082 --> 01:14:50,786
was arrested, I was so scared.

2141
01:14:50,786 --> 01:14:54,556
♪ ♪

2142
01:14:54,556 --> 01:14:57,092
It was in the middle of the day.

2143
01:14:57,092 --> 01:14:59,628
♪ ♪

2144
01:14:59,628 --> 01:15:03,165
Five men and five women came.

2145
01:15:03,165 --> 01:15:04,566
They were blocking the street,

2146
01:15:04,566 --> 01:15:07,536
so all neighbors witnessed what

2147
01:15:07,536 --> 01:15:08,537
happened.

2148
01:15:08,537 --> 01:15:12,174
♪ ♪

2149
01:15:12,174 --> 01:15:14,443
My parents, they were extremely

2150
01:15:14,443 --> 01:15:17,446
panicked.

2151
01:15:17,446 --> 01:15:18,814
My mom said, "Why you are

2152
01:15:18,814 --> 01:15:21,016
arresting my daughter?"

2153
01:15:21,016 --> 01:15:23,652
But they just went up, and they

2154
01:15:23,652 --> 01:15:26,221
grab her from her bedroom,

2155
01:15:26,221 --> 01:15:27,656
they-they took her.

2156
01:15:27,656 --> 01:15:34,229
♪ ♪

2157
01:15:34,229 --> 01:15:35,430
>> SMITH: The other arrests 

2158
01:15:35,430 --> 01:15:38,500
were similarly staged.

2159
01:15:38,500 --> 01:15:39,868
>> They are telling the women a

2160
01:15:39,868 --> 01:15:42,137
message, that, "You should not

2161
01:15:42,137 --> 01:15:44,039
ask for more rights."

2162
01:15:44,039 --> 01:15:45,707
>> When they went to Hatoon

2163
01:15:45,707 --> 01:15:47,142
al-Fassi's house, they brought

2164
01:15:47,142 --> 01:15:49,311
klieg lights and lit up the

2165
01:15:49,311 --> 01:15:50,245
neighborhood.

2166
01:15:50,245 --> 01:15:52,280
And they did it in front of her

2167
01:15:52,280 --> 01:15:53,281
children.

2168
01:15:53,281 --> 01:15:55,517
They don't, they don't do that.

2169
01:15:55,517 --> 01:15:57,552
Jamal was the one who showed me

2170
01:15:57,552 --> 01:15:59,488
the Saudi newspaper that has all

2171
01:15:59,488 --> 01:16:01,223
of their faces and, "Traitor,

2172
01:16:01,223 --> 01:16:02,391
traitor, traitor."

2173
01:16:02,391 --> 01:16:04,026
I mean, I cannot tell you how

2174
01:16:04,026 --> 01:16:06,762
shocking that was.

2175
01:16:06,762 --> 01:16:12,200
♪ ♪

2176
01:16:12,200 --> 01:16:13,502
>> SMITH: At least 12 women and

2177
01:16:13,502 --> 01:16:15,370
three men were arrested

2178
01:16:15,370 --> 01:16:18,840
because of their activism.

2179
01:16:18,840 --> 01:16:20,342
Human rights groups believe the

2180
01:16:20,342 --> 01:16:21,977
number to be much higher.

2181
01:16:23,578 --> 01:16:25,614
Khashoggi wrote, "Repression and

2182
01:16:25,614 --> 01:16:27,282
intimidation are not-- and

2183
01:16:27,282 --> 01:16:29,151
never should be-- the acceptable

2184
01:16:29,151 --> 01:16:31,086
companions of reform."

2185
01:16:31,086 --> 01:16:32,688
He urged MBS to "order the

2186
01:16:32,688 --> 01:16:34,523
release of Hathloul... and the

2187
01:16:34,523 --> 01:16:36,458
other women who campaigned for

2188
01:16:36,458 --> 01:16:38,760
women's right to drive."

2189
01:16:40,362 --> 01:16:43,065
♪ ♪

2190
01:16:43,065 --> 01:16:46,368
But they were not released.

2191
01:16:46,368 --> 01:16:47,803
Hathloul's parents were not

2192
01:16:47,803 --> 01:16:49,304
allowed to start visiting her

2193
01:16:49,304 --> 01:16:51,907
until months later.

2194
01:16:51,907 --> 01:16:53,608
>> My mom and my father went to

2195
01:16:53,608 --> 01:16:54,743
Jeddah.

2196
01:16:54,743 --> 01:16:56,278
They took the plane to visit

2197
01:16:56,278 --> 01:16:58,914
Loujan at Dhahban prison.

2198
01:16:58,914 --> 01:17:06,188
♪ ♪

2199
01:17:06,188 --> 01:17:08,924
When they saw her, she was weak,

2200
01:17:08,924 --> 01:17:10,759
very weak.

2201
01:17:10,759 --> 01:17:13,095
And there was red marks over her

2202
01:17:13,095 --> 01:17:14,796
face.

2203
01:17:14,796 --> 01:17:16,364
They asked her, "Did they

2204
01:17:16,364 --> 01:17:17,966
torture you?"

2205
01:17:17,966 --> 01:17:21,136
And she said... she said, "No,

2206
01:17:21,136 --> 01:17:22,537
I am fine, you know.

2207
01:17:22,537 --> 01:17:25,440
Don't worry about me."

2208
01:17:25,440 --> 01:17:28,276
And they insisted.

2209
01:17:28,276 --> 01:17:31,546
And after that, she just start

2210
01:17:31,546 --> 01:17:33,949
crying, crying, crying.

2211
01:17:33,949 --> 01:17:36,518
She couldn't stop.

2212
01:17:36,518 --> 01:17:40,355
And moment she stopped, she

2213
01:17:40,355 --> 01:17:42,557
start breathing.

2214
01:17:42,557 --> 01:17:47,729
And she showed them her thighs.

2215
01:17:47,729 --> 01:17:51,333
And it was not only bruises.

2216
01:17:51,333 --> 01:17:52,567
It was burned.

2217
01:17:52,567 --> 01:17:54,236
It was so dark.

2218
01:17:54,236 --> 01:17:57,406
♪ ♪

2219
01:18:03,311 --> 01:18:06,548
And she said, "They were going

2220
01:18:06,548 --> 01:18:08,016
to throw me in the sewage

2221
01:18:08,016 --> 01:18:09,317
system."

2222
01:18:09,317 --> 01:18:10,685
And they were repeating this to

2223
01:18:10,685 --> 01:18:11,620
her.

2224
01:18:11,620 --> 01:18:13,155
She thought she was going to

2225
01:18:13,155 --> 01:18:16,658
die.

2226
01:18:16,658 --> 01:18:19,828
And during the torture session,

2227
01:18:19,828 --> 01:18:22,063
she recognized specifically one

2228
01:18:22,063 --> 01:18:22,731
man.

2229
01:18:22,731 --> 01:18:25,100
And he is a highly ranked

2230
01:18:25,100 --> 01:18:26,168
advisor.

2231
01:18:26,168 --> 01:18:29,371
>> SMITH: Who was that?

2232
01:18:29,371 --> 01:18:33,308
>> His name is known everywhere.

2233
01:18:33,308 --> 01:18:37,078
It was Saud al-Qahtani.

2234
01:18:37,078 --> 01:18:41,283
♪ ♪

2235
01:18:43,118 --> 01:18:43,985
>> SMITH: Some of the other

2236
01:18:43,985 --> 01:18:45,821
women arrested also endured

2237
01:18:45,821 --> 01:18:49,591
torture-- Samar Badawi, Aziza

2238
01:18:49,591 --> 01:18:53,829
al-Yousef, Eman al-Nafjan,

2239
01:18:53,829 --> 01:18:56,298
Shadan al-Onezi, and Nouf

2240
01:18:56,298 --> 01:18:57,299
al-Dosari.

2241
01:18:57,299 --> 01:18:59,034
There are also reports of sexual

2242
01:18:59,034 --> 01:19:00,736
harassment and assault.

2243
01:19:01,703 --> 01:19:03,104
Details were sent by multiple

2244
01:19:03,104 --> 01:19:04,806
sources to human rights groups

2245
01:19:04,806 --> 01:19:06,842
outside Saudi Arabia.

2246
01:19:06,842 --> 01:19:07,909
>> The statement that we got

2247
01:19:07,909 --> 01:19:09,277
from many of the sources, that

2248
01:19:09,277 --> 01:19:13,148
all of the women were tortured.

2249
01:19:13,148 --> 01:19:14,149
And placed, of course, in

2250
01:19:14,149 --> 01:19:16,585
solitary confinement.

2251
01:19:16,585 --> 01:19:17,786
Women would be stripped naked

2252
01:19:17,786 --> 01:19:20,322
and assaulted sexually.

2253
01:19:20,322 --> 01:19:21,756
They would be beaten,

2254
01:19:21,756 --> 01:19:23,692
electrocuted.

2255
01:19:23,692 --> 01:19:25,527
To see those women who have for

2256
01:19:25,527 --> 01:19:27,863
years been really a source of

2257
01:19:27,863 --> 01:19:30,398
strength for other women, to see

2258
01:19:30,398 --> 01:19:32,434
them treated this way, for me, I

2259
01:19:32,434 --> 01:19:33,068
know these women.

2260
01:19:33,068 --> 01:19:36,204
I know how dignified, how caring

2261
01:19:36,204 --> 01:19:37,305
and concerned about their

2262
01:19:37,305 --> 01:19:39,040
country they are.

2263
01:19:39,040 --> 01:19:40,308
There is no other way, except

2264
01:19:40,308 --> 01:19:41,710
that they want to put them into

2265
01:19:41,710 --> 01:19:42,844
a position where they're

2266
01:19:42,844 --> 01:19:45,580
completely broken and silenced.

2267
01:19:45,580 --> 01:19:48,516
♪ ♪

2268
01:19:48,516 --> 01:19:51,720
(car horns honking)

2269
01:19:51,720 --> 01:19:52,787
>> SMITH: Qahtani has not

2270
01:19:52,787 --> 01:19:54,256
commented on any torture

2271
01:19:54,256 --> 01:19:56,157
allegations.

2272
01:19:56,157 --> 01:19:57,626
Al-Hathloul attempted to report

2273
01:19:57,626 --> 01:19:59,794
her torture to officers of the

2274
01:19:59,794 --> 01:20:01,196
Saudi Human Rights Commission

2275
01:20:01,196 --> 01:20:03,665
who had visited her in prison.

2276
01:20:03,665 --> 01:20:05,267
>> The Human Rights Commission

2277
01:20:05,267 --> 01:20:06,568
visited her.

2278
01:20:06,568 --> 01:20:08,270
And she said, "Are you going to

2279
01:20:08,270 --> 01:20:09,170
protect me?"

2280
01:20:09,170 --> 01:20:11,439
Because she gave them the name

2281
01:20:11,439 --> 01:20:13,008
of Saud al-Qahtani, and she is

2282
01:20:13,008 --> 01:20:15,543
so scared of that.

2283
01:20:15,543 --> 01:20:17,979
They said, "Of course we can't."

2284
01:20:17,979 --> 01:20:18,947
>> SMITH: We cannot.

2285
01:20:18,947 --> 01:20:20,782
>> "We cannot, no, of course we

2286
01:20:20,782 --> 01:20:24,052
cannot."

2287
01:20:24,052 --> 01:20:25,220
>> SMITH: I tried to call the

2288
01:20:25,220 --> 01:20:26,755
Human Rights Commission to get a

2289
01:20:26,755 --> 01:20:28,657
comment.

2290
01:20:28,657 --> 01:20:30,592
They didn't respond.

2291
01:20:30,592 --> 01:20:32,027
We decided to just go over

2292
01:20:32,027 --> 01:20:34,429
there.

2293
01:20:37,999 --> 01:20:39,668
(Smith speaking Arabic):

2294
01:20:45,073 --> 01:20:46,074
>> No.

2295
01:20:46,074 --> 01:20:46,908
(Smith):

2296
01:20:48,476 --> 01:20:51,212
(men speaking Arabic)

2297
01:20:51,212 --> 01:20:53,815
Okay?

2298
01:20:53,815 --> 01:20:55,383
I was ushered into what I hoped

2299
01:20:55,383 --> 01:20:57,953
was Dr. Aiban's office.

2300
01:20:57,953 --> 01:20:58,353
He heads the Human

2301
01:20:58,353 --> 01:21:01,723
Rights Commission.

2302
01:21:04,759 --> 01:21:06,661
(phone ringing distantly)

2303
01:21:13,435 --> 01:21:14,469
They don't know what to do with

2304
01:21:14,469 --> 01:21:15,804
us.

2305
01:21:18,106 --> 01:21:19,140
Hello.

2306
01:21:19,140 --> 01:21:20,775
>> Sabah al-noor.

2307
01:21:20,775 --> 01:21:21,876
>> SMITH: Finally, I was greeted

2308
01:21:21,876 --> 01:21:24,012
by a translator, Aziz, and an

2309
01:21:24,012 --> 01:21:25,146
office assistant.

2310
01:21:25,146 --> 01:21:26,147
>> SMITH: As you know, there's

2311
01:21:26,147 --> 01:21:27,382
lots of controversy right now

2312
01:21:27,382 --> 01:21:31,619
about the handling of prisoners,

2313
01:21:31,619 --> 01:21:33,555
and we wanted to ask questions

2314
01:21:33,555 --> 01:21:35,357
about the conditions in the

2315
01:21:35,357 --> 01:21:36,825
prisons, about the conditions

2316
01:21:36,825 --> 01:21:38,593
for the women particularly.

2317
01:21:42,530 --> 01:21:44,399
>> SMITH: Okay, is he here?

2318
01:21:46,101 --> 01:21:47,202
>> SMITH: He's trying to call

2319
01:21:47,202 --> 01:21:49,571
him.

2320
01:21:49,571 --> 01:21:52,707
Why is it so difficult to get an

2321
01:21:52,707 --> 01:21:54,409
appointment to see Dr. Aiban?

2322
01:21:59,447 --> 01:22:00,415
>> SMITH: Despite it being a

2323
01:22:00,415 --> 01:22:03,318
workday, I got nowhere.

2324
01:22:03,318 --> 01:22:06,087
(man speaking Arabic)

2325
01:22:06,087 --> 01:22:08,456
(assistant speaking Arabic):

2326
01:22:13,395 --> 01:22:14,929
>> SMITH: Good luck to you.

2327
01:22:14,929 --> 01:22:15,930
(Aziz speaking Arabic)

2328
01:22:15,930 --> 01:22:17,265
♪ ♪

2329
01:22:18,833 --> 01:22:19,668
(Smith):

2330
01:22:23,104 --> 01:22:25,707
I never received a call back.

2331
01:22:25,707 --> 01:22:27,942
But I kept trying.

2332
01:22:27,942 --> 01:22:30,178
(phone ringing)

2333
01:22:30,178 --> 01:22:32,113
Hello, hello?

2334
01:22:32,113 --> 01:22:33,148
Yeah.

2335
01:22:33,148 --> 01:22:34,082
I am looking to speak with Dr.

2336
01:22:34,082 --> 01:22:35,283
Aiban.

2337
01:22:35,283 --> 01:22:36,718
(speaking Arabic)

2338
01:22:36,718 --> 01:22:37,952
Dr. Aiban.

2339
01:22:37,952 --> 01:22:39,087
Number is wrong?

2340
01:22:39,087 --> 01:22:40,555
Okay, thank you.

2341
01:22:40,555 --> 01:22:41,556
>> (on phone): Hello?

2342
01:22:41,556 --> 01:22:42,757
>> SMITH: Yes, hi, I want to

2343
01:22:42,757 --> 01:22:44,325
speak with Dr. Aiban.

2344
01:22:44,325 --> 01:22:46,628
(phone hangs up)

2345
01:22:46,628 --> 01:22:49,230
♪ ♪

2346
01:22:49,230 --> 01:22:50,832
I also tried to contact the

2347
01:22:50,832 --> 01:22:52,367
public prosecutor and the

2348
01:22:52,367 --> 01:22:54,903
minister of justice.

2349
01:22:54,903 --> 01:22:56,171
By the time I spoke to Foreign

2350
01:22:56,171 --> 01:22:58,273
Minister Adel al-Jubeir, eight

2351
01:22:58,273 --> 01:22:59,674
months had gone by since

2352
01:22:59,674 --> 01:23:01,309
al-Hathloul and the other women

2353
01:23:01,309 --> 01:23:02,844
were arrested.

2354
01:23:02,844 --> 01:23:03,878
>> We refuse the charge of

2355
01:23:03,878 --> 01:23:04,579
torture.

2356
01:23:04,579 --> 01:23:05,713
I don't believe that's the case.

2357
01:23:05,713 --> 01:23:07,882
The prosecutor has said this.

2358
01:23:07,882 --> 01:23:09,451
And I think the procedures,

2359
01:23:09,451 --> 01:23:10,552
legal procedures in Saudi

2360
01:23:10,552 --> 01:23:12,120
Arabia, have to play out.

2361
01:23:12,120 --> 01:23:13,121
>> SMITH: They've been held

2362
01:23:13,121 --> 01:23:14,055
without trial.

2363
01:23:14,055 --> 01:23:15,557
>> We, they will be going

2364
01:23:15,557 --> 01:23:16,691
through the courts.

2365
01:23:16,691 --> 01:23:18,026
They are not activists.

2366
01:23:18,026 --> 01:23:19,260
There's evidence of links to

2367
01:23:19,260 --> 01:23:20,462
foreign entities.

2368
01:23:20,462 --> 01:23:22,664
There's evidence of attempting

2369
01:23:22,664 --> 01:23:24,132
to recruit people in sensitive

2370
01:23:24,132 --> 01:23:25,100
positions.

2371
01:23:25,100 --> 01:23:26,101
>> SMITH: That's the charge,

2372
01:23:26,101 --> 01:23:27,302
but that hasn't been proven.

2373
01:23:27,302 --> 01:23:30,638
>> It will be proven in court.

2374
01:23:30,638 --> 01:23:31,840
>> SMITH: Who do you hold

2375
01:23:31,840 --> 01:23:33,775
responsible for what's happened

2376
01:23:33,775 --> 01:23:37,145
to your sister?

2377
01:23:37,445 --> 01:23:41,249
>> Good question.

2378
01:23:41,249 --> 01:23:44,786
I have some idea, but I don't

2379
01:23:44,786 --> 01:23:46,321
know if I can share it.

2380
01:23:48,590 --> 01:23:50,892
Every time I talk, every time I

2381
01:23:50,892 --> 01:23:55,096
accept to be interviewed, I have

2382
01:23:55,096 --> 01:23:58,800
to see if there are consequences

2383
01:23:58,800 --> 01:24:02,303
on me, on my sister, my family.

2384
01:24:02,303 --> 01:24:03,671
Saudi Arabia was never a

2385
01:24:03,671 --> 01:24:04,839
democracy.

2386
01:24:04,839 --> 01:24:07,108
However, it was never a police

2387
01:24:07,108 --> 01:24:09,611
state.

2388
01:24:09,611 --> 01:24:12,347
And I feel it's becoming kind

2389
01:24:12,347 --> 01:24:13,515
of a police state,

2390
01:24:13,515 --> 01:24:17,152
unfortunately.

2391
01:24:17,152 --> 01:24:18,653
>> The Saudi government never

2392
01:24:18,653 --> 01:24:19,854
went after family members.

2393
01:24:20,455 --> 01:24:22,223
Now the system is actually

2394
01:24:22,223 --> 01:24:23,458
engaged in collective forms of

2395
01:24:23,458 --> 01:24:24,993
punishment.

2396
01:24:25,593 --> 01:24:27,529
>> SMITH: In DC, Khashoggi was

2397
01:24:27,529 --> 01:24:30,632
also feeling the wrath of MBS.

2398
01:24:30,632 --> 01:24:32,667
His son, Salah, the only one of

2399
01:24:32,667 --> 01:24:34,369
his children still in Saudi

2400
01:24:34,369 --> 01:24:36,037
Arabia, had been forbidden to

2401
01:24:36,037 --> 01:24:38,173
travel.

2402
01:24:38,173 --> 01:24:39,174
>> One of the first things he

2403
01:24:39,174 --> 01:24:41,576
said to me is, "They've put my

2404
01:24:41,576 --> 01:24:42,877
son on a travel ban.

2405
01:24:43,411 --> 01:24:44,979
And it's just not fair.

2406
01:24:44,979 --> 01:24:47,115
He's not political at all.

2407
01:24:47,115 --> 01:24:48,283
And there's nothing I can do

2408
01:24:48,283 --> 01:24:49,818
about it."

2409
01:24:50,118 --> 01:24:51,386
>> And my understanding is that

2410
01:24:51,386 --> 01:24:52,687
he sent a message to Saud

2411
01:24:52,687 --> 01:24:54,589
al-Qahtani, telling him, "This

2412
01:24:54,589 --> 01:24:56,424
has come to very low standards

2413
01:24:56,424 --> 01:24:58,326
that you are now going after my

2414
01:24:58,326 --> 01:24:59,127
son."

2415
01:24:59,127 --> 01:25:00,395
But he received no response

2416
01:25:00,395 --> 01:25:02,931
from Saud al-Qahtani.

2417
01:25:02,931 --> 01:25:04,532
>> SMITH: His wife, fearing for

2418
01:25:04,532 --> 01:25:06,534
her and her family's safety,

2419
01:25:06,534 --> 01:25:08,236
asked for a divorce.

2420
01:25:08,236 --> 01:25:09,704
>> And that was, that was

2421
01:25:09,704 --> 01:25:13,274
extremely painful to him.

2422
01:25:13,274 --> 01:25:14,609
>> SMITH: Jamal was also being

2423
01:25:14,609 --> 01:25:16,644
harassed on Twitter by Qahtani's

2424
01:25:16,644 --> 01:25:19,314
notorious Army of Flies.

2425
01:25:19,314 --> 01:25:21,249
>> What we talked about is, did

2426
01:25:21,249 --> 01:25:24,052
I know anybody at Twitter to

2427
01:25:24,052 --> 01:25:25,720
turn it off.

2428
01:25:25,720 --> 01:25:27,956
♪ ♪

2429
01:25:27,956 --> 01:25:31,059
It was the bots, the army, the

2430
01:25:31,059 --> 01:25:33,361
flies.

2431
01:25:34,395 --> 01:25:35,430
>> I can say that there was

2432
01:25:35,430 --> 01:25:36,931
certainly a sense of animus

2433
01:25:36,931 --> 01:25:38,633
towards Jamal Khashoggi because

2434
01:25:38,633 --> 01:25:40,268
of his unrelenting criticism of

2435
01:25:40,268 --> 01:25:41,736
the Kingdom in a national

2436
01:25:41,736 --> 01:25:43,171
newspaper in the capital of the

2437
01:25:43,171 --> 01:25:45,807
Saudis' closest partner.

2438
01:25:45,807 --> 01:25:47,709
>> And I think MBS felt

2439
01:25:47,709 --> 01:25:49,577
genuinely threatened about

2440
01:25:49,577 --> 01:25:50,745
this "Washington Post"-supported

2441
01:25:50,745 --> 01:25:52,714
journalist who was criticizing

2442
01:25:52,714 --> 01:25:54,048
MBS himself, personally.

2443
01:25:56,985 --> 01:25:58,386
>> He talked about the kind of

2444
01:25:58,386 --> 01:26:00,088
threats he was getting.

2445
01:26:01,489 --> 01:26:03,024
But he was also heartened by

2446
01:26:03,024 --> 01:26:04,559
the positive feedback he was

2447
01:26:04,559 --> 01:26:06,227
getting from Saudis he never

2448
01:26:06,227 --> 01:26:09,330
met, and people reaching out to

2449
01:26:09,330 --> 01:26:11,466
him and saying, "Yes, you are

2450
01:26:11,466 --> 01:26:12,800
doing the right thing, yes, you

2451
01:26:12,800 --> 01:26:13,968
are speaking on all of our

2452
01:26:13,968 --> 01:26:15,370
behalf.

2453
01:26:16,104 --> 01:26:17,405
Thank you for doing what you

2454
01:26:17,405 --> 01:26:19,440
are doing."

2455
01:26:19,440 --> 01:26:20,842
>> SMITH: And he had, with time,

2456
01:26:20,842 --> 01:26:22,810
found a new love, someone who

2457
01:26:22,810 --> 01:26:24,145
shared his interest in Arab

2458
01:26:24,145 --> 01:26:26,714
politics-- a Turkish academic,

2459
01:26:26,714 --> 01:26:29,150
Hatice Cengiz.

2460
01:26:29,150 --> 01:26:30,618
>> When I saw him the last time,

2461
01:26:30,618 --> 01:26:31,586
he was happy.

2462
01:26:31,586 --> 01:26:32,887
He said, "Well, I'm thinking I'm

2463
01:26:32,887 --> 01:26:34,255
going to spend more time in

2464
01:26:34,255 --> 01:26:36,257
Turkey now."

2465
01:26:36,257 --> 01:26:38,026
>> SMITH: And he kept writing

2466
01:26:38,026 --> 01:26:39,827
about the prince he had once

2467
01:26:39,827 --> 01:26:42,630
supported.

2468
01:26:43,064 --> 01:26:45,199
>> I think his ultimate desire

2469
01:26:45,199 --> 01:26:48,169
was to see his people enjoy some

2470
01:26:48,169 --> 01:26:49,737
of the same freedoms that he had

2471
01:26:49,737 --> 01:26:51,272
here in Washington, in the U.S.

2472
01:26:53,408 --> 01:26:54,609
>> SMITH: He submitted his last

2473
01:26:54,609 --> 01:26:59,647
article on September 28, 2018.

2474
01:26:59,647 --> 01:27:02,450
>> Over time, I think Jamal felt

2475
01:27:02,450 --> 01:27:04,218
more and more that independent

2476
01:27:04,218 --> 01:27:06,387
journalism was the way to

2477
01:27:06,387 --> 01:27:07,855
achieve what he'd wanted since

2478
01:27:07,855 --> 01:27:10,558
he was a young man.

2479
01:27:10,558 --> 01:27:12,126
George Orwell gave as a title

2480
01:27:12,126 --> 01:27:14,062
of a column that he wrote,

2481
01:27:14,062 --> 01:27:15,430
"As I please," you know, "I

2482
01:27:15,430 --> 01:27:17,799
write as I please."

2483
01:27:17,799 --> 01:27:19,634
Jamal Khashoggi was a version

2484
01:27:19,634 --> 01:27:20,635
of that.

2485
01:27:20,635 --> 01:27:21,969
He was somebody who wrote what

2486
01:27:21,969 --> 01:27:23,971
he thought, wrote what he

2487
01:27:23,971 --> 01:27:25,106
believed.

2488
01:27:25,106 --> 01:27:31,746
♪ ♪

2489
01:27:31,746 --> 01:27:32,780
>> SMITH: Do you think Jamal had

2490
01:27:32,780 --> 01:27:33,915
any idea that he was playing

2491
01:27:33,915 --> 01:27:34,916
with fire?

2492
01:27:34,916 --> 01:27:36,284
>> I think that Jamal hadn't

2493
01:27:36,284 --> 01:27:37,952
fully realized how different the

2494
01:27:37,952 --> 01:27:41,289
system had become.

2495
01:27:41,289 --> 01:27:42,390
I think that he thought that

2496
01:27:42,390 --> 01:27:44,058
this was a regime that didn't

2497
01:27:44,058 --> 01:27:46,227
draw blood unnecessarily, that

2498
01:27:46,227 --> 01:27:48,396
did not kill dissidents

2499
01:27:48,396 --> 01:27:49,597
overseas.

2500
01:27:49,597 --> 01:27:50,832
And I think he was wrong.

2501
01:27:50,832 --> 01:27:51,999
He misjudged how things had

2502
01:27:51,999 --> 01:27:53,868
changed.

2503
01:27:53,868 --> 01:27:57,472
♪ ♪

2504
01:28:02,243 --> 01:28:04,078
>> He was last seen in Istanbul.

2505
01:28:04,078 --> 01:28:05,213
Angela, where do you think he's

2506
01:28:05,213 --> 01:28:06,013
gone to?

2507
01:28:06,013 --> 01:28:07,248
>> Well, this is the question

2508
01:28:07,248 --> 01:28:08,916
that everybody is asking.

2509
01:28:08,916 --> 01:28:10,752
Jamal Khashoggi, he went missing

2510
01:28:10,752 --> 01:28:12,620
on Tuesday, he went to the

2511
01:28:12,620 --> 01:28:14,489
consulate building of Saudi

2512
01:28:14,489 --> 01:28:15,623
Arabia in Istanbul.

2513
01:28:15,623 --> 01:28:17,125
>> Speaking on Turkish TV, Ms.

2514
01:28:17,125 --> 01:28:18,426
Cengiz explained that he was

2515
01:28:18,426 --> 01:28:19,594
going to the consulate to

2516
01:28:19,594 --> 01:28:20,595
collect documents for the

2517
01:28:20,595 --> 01:28:21,996
marriage, and for that she

2518
01:28:21,996 --> 01:28:22,764
felt guilty...

2519
01:28:22,764 --> 01:28:23,865
>> SMITH: The murder took place

2520
01:28:23,865 --> 01:28:26,067
on October 2.

2521
01:28:26,067 --> 01:28:27,568
Four days later, the Saudi

2522
01:28:27,568 --> 01:28:29,604
consul general gave a reporter a

2523
01:28:29,604 --> 01:28:32,273
tour of the consulate.

2524
01:28:32,273 --> 01:28:33,541
The Saudis' story was that

2525
01:28:33,541 --> 01:28:35,009
Khashoggi had walked out of the

2526
01:28:35,009 --> 01:28:36,110
building alive.

2527
01:28:38,746 --> 01:28:39,681
(consul speaking Arabic):

2528
01:29:00,201 --> 01:29:01,369
>> SMITH: The Saudis were saying

2529
01:29:01,369 --> 01:29:02,870
he had gone missing somewhere in

2530
01:29:02,870 --> 01:29:06,374
Turkey.

2531
01:29:06,374 --> 01:29:08,710
Turkish officials were furious.

2532
01:29:09,210 --> 01:29:10,311
>> They're like, instead of

2533
01:29:10,311 --> 01:29:12,547
their providing answers to us,

2534
01:29:12,547 --> 01:29:14,315
they're actually saying that,

2535
01:29:14,315 --> 01:29:16,117
"Oh, it's your problem now.

2536
01:29:16,117 --> 01:29:17,518
He's missing in Turkey."

2537
01:29:17,819 --> 01:29:19,320
That was the tipping point for

2538
01:29:19,320 --> 01:29:22,290
Turkish officials.

2539
01:29:22,290 --> 01:29:23,424
>> SMITH: At the pro-government

2540
01:29:23,424 --> 01:29:25,193
Turkish newspaper, "Sabah,"

2541
01:29:25,193 --> 01:29:26,427
reporters started getting

2542
01:29:26,427 --> 01:29:27,662
details from Turkish

2543
01:29:27,662 --> 01:29:30,998
intelligence and the police.

2544
01:29:30,998 --> 01:29:31,966
Nazif Karaman.

2545
01:29:32,667 --> 01:29:37,038
(speaking Turkish):

2546
01:29:43,945 --> 01:29:46,147
♪ ♪

2547
01:29:49,450 --> 01:29:50,318
>> SMITH: By the time the

2548
01:29:50,318 --> 01:29:51,786
reporters had learned about the

2549
01:29:51,786 --> 01:29:53,654
two Saudi planes, the jets had

2550
01:29:53,654 --> 01:29:55,990
left Istanbul.

2551
01:29:55,990 --> 01:29:59,527
Then they were told more.

2552
01:29:59,527 --> 01:30:00,294
Abdurrahman Simsek.

2553
01:30:01,429 --> 01:30:05,900
(speaking Turkish):

2554
01:30:21,983 --> 01:30:23,518
>> SMITH: Yasin Aktay, advisor

2555
01:30:23,518 --> 01:30:25,620
to Turkey's President Erdogan,

2556
01:30:25,620 --> 01:30:27,722
heard details of the murder.

2557
01:30:27,722 --> 01:30:29,924
When you learned that the police

2558
01:30:29,924 --> 01:30:31,325
had concluded that he had been

2559
01:30:31,325 --> 01:30:33,494
murdered, can you describe that

2560
01:30:33,494 --> 01:30:34,028
moment?

2561
01:30:34,362 --> 01:30:35,496
>> That moment was very, very

2562
01:30:35,496 --> 01:30:36,898
difficult for me.

2563
01:30:36,898 --> 01:30:40,134
They said me, "They're, they're

2564
01:30:40,134 --> 01:30:41,802
animals, they are animals.

2565
01:30:41,802 --> 01:30:43,437
They're, they're worse than

2566
01:30:43,437 --> 01:30:44,539
animals.

2567
01:30:44,539 --> 01:30:46,340
They-they killed him like dogs,

2568
01:30:46,340 --> 01:30:48,609
and they, he was crying."

2569
01:30:48,609 --> 01:30:52,079
And I, I-I-I cried.

2570
01:30:52,079 --> 01:30:53,915
>> I just couldn't come to

2571
01:30:53,915 --> 01:30:56,250
myself for a couple of minutes.

2572
01:30:56,250 --> 01:30:57,385
I just couldn't believe the fact

2573
01:30:57,385 --> 01:30:59,620
that they cut him into pieces.

2574
01:30:59,620 --> 01:31:00,788
(horn honks)

2575
01:31:00,788 --> 01:31:03,458
>> SMITH: I texted MBS.

2576
01:31:07,428 --> 01:31:09,230
There was no response.

2577
01:31:09,230 --> 01:31:10,331
I tried again.

2578
01:31:10,331 --> 01:31:12,834
♪ ♪

2579
01:31:19,640 --> 01:31:21,943
Did you know Jamal Khashoggi?

2580
01:31:21,943 --> 01:31:24,645
>> Yes.

2581
01:31:24,645 --> 01:31:25,780
I've known him since the late

2582
01:31:25,780 --> 01:31:27,081
'80s.

2583
01:31:27,081 --> 01:31:27,681
>> SMITH: And what kind of man

2584
01:31:27,681 --> 01:31:28,249
was he?

2585
01:31:29,150 --> 01:31:30,151
>> He was a journalist, he was

2586
01:31:30,151 --> 01:31:33,321
an editor, he was a kind person.

2587
01:31:33,321 --> 01:31:36,490
And he was... he had family, he

2588
01:31:36,490 --> 01:31:37,425
had children.

2589
01:31:37,792 --> 01:31:38,893
>> SMITH: And what happened to

2590
01:31:38,893 --> 01:31:39,860
him?

2591
01:31:39,860 --> 01:31:42,496
>> He was murdered in the Saudi

2592
01:31:42,496 --> 01:31:45,866
consulate in Istanbul in what is

2593
01:31:45,866 --> 01:31:48,603
a huge mistake that has shocked

2594
01:31:48,603 --> 01:31:51,172
the whole country, and that we

2595
01:31:51,172 --> 01:31:53,341
have expressed our commitment

2596
01:31:53,341 --> 01:31:55,776
to hold those accountable and

2597
01:31:55,776 --> 01:31:57,878
to make sure, work on

2598
01:31:57,878 --> 01:32:00,081
procedures to reform the

2599
01:32:00,081 --> 01:32:01,782
security services so that we

2600
01:32:01,782 --> 01:32:03,184
minimize the occurrence of such

2601
01:32:03,184 --> 01:32:05,886
a tragic mistake in the future.

2602
01:32:05,886 --> 01:32:09,891
♪ ♪

2603
01:32:14,095 --> 01:32:15,096
>> SMITH: Jubeir says they are

2604
01:32:15,096 --> 01:32:16,664
committed to investigating what

2605
01:32:16,664 --> 01:32:18,566
happened.

2606
01:32:18,566 --> 01:32:19,934
But from the beginning, the

2607
01:32:19,934 --> 01:32:21,903
Saudis tried to cover it up.

2608
01:32:25,473 --> 01:32:27,441
>> The Saudi story kept changing

2609
01:32:27,441 --> 01:32:30,011
over the course of two weeks.

2610
01:32:30,011 --> 01:32:31,946
Inconsistencies were really

2611
01:32:31,946 --> 01:32:32,780
clear.

2612
01:32:33,814 --> 01:32:35,449
>> This is one of the most

2613
01:32:35,449 --> 01:32:37,551
peculiar, perplexing news events

2614
01:32:37,551 --> 01:32:40,087
that I can recall in some time.

2615
01:32:40,087 --> 01:32:41,656
>> The evidence keeps building.

2616
01:32:41,656 --> 01:32:43,658
Newly released video shows a

2617
01:32:43,658 --> 01:32:45,526
Saudi man who looks a little

2618
01:32:45,526 --> 01:32:46,827
like Khashoggi...

2619
01:32:46,827 --> 01:32:49,096
>> Here's, he's caught on CCTV

2620
01:32:49,096 --> 01:32:50,164
arriving at the consulate,

2621
01:32:50,164 --> 01:32:50,831
wearing...

2622
01:32:50,831 --> 01:32:51,866
>> SMITH: Surveillance footage

2623
01:32:51,866 --> 01:32:53,234
showed how the team initially

2624
01:32:53,234 --> 01:32:54,602
tried to fool the police into

2625
01:32:54,602 --> 01:32:56,270
believing Khashoggi left the

2626
01:32:56,270 --> 01:32:58,039
consulate alive.

2627
01:32:58,039 --> 01:32:59,006
>> He walks outside, in

2628
01:32:59,006 --> 01:33:01,108
Khashoggi's clothes and glasses.

2629
01:33:01,108 --> 01:33:02,076
>> SMITH: But the police

2630
01:33:02,076 --> 01:33:03,511
immediately spotted what was a

2631
01:33:03,511 --> 01:33:05,579
body double.

2632
01:33:05,579 --> 01:33:07,048
>> Same clothes, same glasses,

2633
01:33:07,048 --> 01:33:09,183
same beard, same age and build.

2634
01:33:09,183 --> 01:33:10,017
Everything but the shoes.

2635
01:33:11,118 --> 01:33:12,420
>> SMITH: Why did the double not

2636
01:33:12,420 --> 01:33:14,522
take Khashoggi's shoes?

2637
01:33:14,522 --> 01:33:15,623
>> He took the shoes, actually,

2638
01:33:15,623 --> 01:33:16,857
but he couldn't...

2639
01:33:16,857 --> 01:33:17,858
>> SMITH: They wouldn't fit?

2640
01:33:17,858 --> 01:33:18,693
>> Yeah, and head of the

2641
01:33:18,693 --> 01:33:20,795
Istanbul Police, he realized

2642
01:33:20,795 --> 01:33:24,465
that the-the, you know, shoes is

2643
01:33:24,465 --> 01:33:25,299
different.

2644
01:33:26,434 --> 01:33:27,635
>> SMITH: The Saudis had clung

2645
01:33:27,635 --> 01:33:29,036
to the lie that Khashoggi was

2646
01:33:29,036 --> 01:33:30,371
alive.

2647
01:33:30,371 --> 01:33:31,806
>> It's more drip-fed,

2648
01:33:31,806 --> 01:33:34,308
uncorroboratable intelligence

2649
01:33:34,308 --> 01:33:35,509
that's sent Riyadh into a

2650
01:33:35,509 --> 01:33:36,877
panic.

2651
01:33:36,877 --> 01:33:37,845
>> SMITH: Then Turkish

2652
01:33:37,845 --> 01:33:39,413
intelligence revealed they had

2653
01:33:39,413 --> 01:33:40,848
audio tapes.

2654
01:33:40,848 --> 01:33:42,316
>> ...Turkish and U.S. officials

2655
01:33:42,316 --> 01:33:44,385
says the recordings offer proof

2656
01:33:44,385 --> 01:33:46,220
Khashoggi was interrogated,

2657
01:33:46,220 --> 01:33:47,722
tortured, and murdered.

2658
01:33:47,722 --> 01:33:49,023
>> SMITH: The details revealed

2659
01:33:49,023 --> 01:33:50,458
were gruesome.

2660
01:33:50,458 --> 01:33:51,792
The audio was not released to

2661
01:33:51,792 --> 01:33:53,094
the public.

2662
01:33:53,094 --> 01:33:54,628
But some reporters learned about

2663
01:33:54,628 --> 01:33:55,863
its contents.

2664
01:33:56,263 --> 01:33:57,298
>> To be honest, I don't think

2665
01:33:57,298 --> 01:33:58,899
it's something that could really

2666
01:33:58,899 --> 01:34:01,635
be shared with the public,

2667
01:34:01,635 --> 01:34:03,938
because it just involves so much

2668
01:34:03,938 --> 01:34:06,340
violence, even though it's just

2669
01:34:06,340 --> 01:34:08,843
a audio recording.

2670
01:34:10,611 --> 01:34:12,847
(Simsek):

2671
01:34:56,991 --> 01:34:58,826
>> Have you heard that tape?

2672
01:34:58,826 --> 01:35:00,694
And does it conclusively point

2673
01:35:00,694 --> 01:35:02,563
to the crown prince as ordering

2674
01:35:02,563 --> 01:35:04,331
the killing of Jamal Khashoggi?

2675
01:35:04,331 --> 01:35:06,133
>> No, I haven't listened to it.

2676
01:35:06,133 --> 01:35:08,369
And I guess I should ask you why

2677
01:35:08,369 --> 01:35:09,436
do you think I should.

2678
01:35:09,436 --> 01:35:10,371
What do you think I'll learn

2679
01:35:10,371 --> 01:35:11,338
from it?

2680
01:35:11,338 --> 01:35:12,339
Unless you speak Arabic, what

2681
01:35:12,339 --> 01:35:13,240
are you going to get from it?

2682
01:35:14,108 --> 01:35:15,109
>> SMITH: Within a week,

2683
01:35:15,109 --> 01:35:16,644
National Security Advisor John

2684
01:35:16,644 --> 01:35:18,345
Bolton and Jared Kushner had

2685
01:35:18,345 --> 01:35:19,180
called Riyadh.

2686
01:35:19,180 --> 01:35:20,281
Soon after Secretary of

2687
01:35:20,281 --> 01:35:22,583
State Mike Pompeo flew to Saudi

2688
01:35:22,583 --> 01:35:24,018
Arabia to meet with the crown

2689
01:35:24,018 --> 01:35:25,653
prince.

2690
01:35:25,653 --> 01:35:29,323
♪ ♪

2691
01:35:35,462 --> 01:35:37,398
Meanwhile, the case for Prince

2692
01:35:37,398 --> 01:35:38,632
Mohammed's involvement was

2693
01:35:38,632 --> 01:35:39,700
tightening.

2694
01:35:39,700 --> 01:35:41,602
>> After weeks of denials, Saudi

2695
01:35:41,602 --> 01:35:43,771
Arabia is changing its tune.

2696
01:35:43,771 --> 01:35:44,939
>> Saudi Arabia now going

2697
01:35:44,939 --> 01:35:46,707
further, admitting that the

2698
01:35:46,707 --> 01:35:48,609
killing looks to have been

2699
01:35:48,609 --> 01:35:50,444
premeditated.

2700
01:35:50,444 --> 01:35:51,946
>> These were not low-ranking

2701
01:35:51,946 --> 01:35:53,647
figures, so they couldn't have

2702
01:35:53,647 --> 01:35:56,250
done what they did oblivious to

2703
01:35:56,250 --> 01:35:57,618
the prince, could they?

2704
01:35:57,618 --> 01:35:58,786
>> SMITH: The Turkish media had

2705
01:35:58,786 --> 01:36:01,121
identified all 15 of the Saudis

2706
01:36:01,121 --> 01:36:03,057
who flew into Istanbul.

2707
01:36:03,057 --> 01:36:04,091
>> Who are these people who are

2708
01:36:04,091 --> 01:36:06,360
on this 15-man team, one of

2709
01:36:06,360 --> 01:36:08,362
whom is a forensics, autopsy

2710
01:36:08,362 --> 01:36:09,997
expert?

2711
01:36:09,997 --> 01:36:11,065
>> SMITH: Five of them are

2712
01:36:11,065 --> 01:36:12,366
reported to have worked under

2713
01:36:12,366 --> 01:36:14,635
MBS's aide Saud al-Qahtani at

2714
01:36:14,635 --> 01:36:17,071
the Royal Court.

2715
01:36:17,071 --> 01:36:18,706
And one key team member was on

2716
01:36:18,706 --> 01:36:20,107
the crown prince's personal

2717
01:36:20,107 --> 01:36:22,176
security detail-- the alleged

2718
01:36:22,176 --> 01:36:24,078
ringleader on the ground, Maher

2719
01:36:24,078 --> 01:36:25,179
Mutreb.

2720
01:36:25,179 --> 01:36:26,714
>> One man, Maher Mutreb, he's

2721
01:36:26,714 --> 01:36:27,748
been seen traveling with the

2722
01:36:27,748 --> 01:36:30,017
crown prince all over the world,

2723
01:36:30,017 --> 01:36:32,386
potentially as a bodyguard...

2724
01:36:32,386 --> 01:36:34,021
>> After the murder, the Saudis

2725
01:36:34,021 --> 01:36:36,156
called MBS's private office.

2726
01:36:36,156 --> 01:36:37,658
It's inconceivable that Mohammed

2727
01:36:37,658 --> 01:36:39,727
bin Salman didn't know.

2728
01:36:39,727 --> 01:36:41,262
♪ ♪

2729
01:36:41,929 --> 01:36:42,930
>> SMITH: You went on

2730
01:36:42,930 --> 01:36:44,632
television, on Fox News, on

2731
01:36:44,632 --> 01:36:47,534
October 21, and you said that

2732
01:36:47,534 --> 01:36:48,903
none of those involved in

2733
01:36:48,903 --> 01:36:50,905
Khashoggi's death had close ties

2734
01:36:50,905 --> 01:36:52,072
to Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed

2735
01:36:52,072 --> 01:36:53,240
bin Salman.

2736
01:36:53,240 --> 01:36:54,842
>> Because he has, Prince...

2737
01:36:54,842 --> 01:36:57,111
these were security individuals.

2738
01:36:57,111 --> 01:36:58,846
Security people have rotations,

2739
01:36:58,846 --> 01:37:00,781
they sometimes serve for

2740
01:37:00,781 --> 01:37:02,616
specific times in terms of

2741
01:37:02,616 --> 01:37:04,351
security or other issues.

2742
01:37:04,351 --> 01:37:05,386
>> SMITH: But these weren't just

2743
01:37:05,386 --> 01:37:06,754
security individuals.

2744
01:37:06,754 --> 01:37:09,390
Mutreb, who traveled extensively

2745
01:37:09,390 --> 01:37:10,858
with the crown prince, including

2746
01:37:10,858 --> 01:37:13,227
in the United States, was on the

2747
01:37:13,227 --> 01:37:14,595
scene.

2748
01:37:14,595 --> 01:37:15,596
Are you saying that you didn't

2749
01:37:15,596 --> 01:37:17,631
know that the people that were

2750
01:37:17,631 --> 01:37:19,133
involved in the murder were

2751
01:37:19,133 --> 01:37:20,401
close to the crown prince at the

2752
01:37:20,401 --> 01:37:21,936
time that you said that?

2753
01:37:21,936 --> 01:37:23,037
>> They... the crown prince has

2754
01:37:23,037 --> 01:37:24,571
a lot of people who are close to

2755
01:37:24,571 --> 01:37:25,706
him or who claim to be close to

2756
01:37:25,706 --> 01:37:26,407
him.

2757
01:37:26,407 --> 01:37:27,441
He has a lot of people who take

2758
01:37:27,441 --> 01:37:28,742
their pictures with him...

2759
01:37:28,742 --> 01:37:29,877
>> SMITH: Then I asked about

2760
01:37:29,877 --> 01:37:31,145
Qahtani.

2761
01:37:31,145 --> 01:37:32,646
Qahtani allegedly ran the

2762
01:37:32,646 --> 01:37:34,949
operation from outside Turkey.

2763
01:37:34,949 --> 01:37:35,950
>> SMITH: Qahtani wasn't just

2764
01:37:35,950 --> 01:37:37,084
one of a lot of people.

2765
01:37:37,084 --> 01:37:38,819
>> Look, this is... you're

2766
01:37:38,819 --> 01:37:40,154
asking all these questions...

2767
01:37:40,154 --> 01:37:41,221
>> SMITH: He's, he was a close

2768
01:37:41,221 --> 01:37:43,691
aide to the crown prince.

2769
01:37:43,691 --> 01:37:45,225
Where is he now?

2770
01:37:45,225 --> 01:37:46,226
>> You should ask the public

2771
01:37:46,226 --> 01:37:46,994
prosecutor.

2772
01:37:46,994 --> 01:37:47,995
>> SMITH: The public prosecutor

2773
01:37:47,995 --> 01:37:50,230
won't talk to us.

2774
01:37:50,230 --> 01:37:52,099
>> Then, then you should call

2775
01:37:52,099 --> 01:37:53,767
him again.

2776
01:37:53,767 --> 01:37:55,369
♪ ♪

2777
01:37:57,538 --> 01:37:58,872
>> SMITH: How is it possible

2778
01:37:58,872 --> 01:38:00,774
that Mohammed bin Salman did not

2779
01:38:00,774 --> 01:38:03,043
know of this operation?

2780
01:38:03,043 --> 01:38:04,278
>> Well, I have stated that I

2781
01:38:04,278 --> 01:38:06,080
believe it's very unlikely he

2782
01:38:06,080 --> 01:38:08,082
did not know of at least a

2783
01:38:08,082 --> 01:38:09,383
rendition.

2784
01:38:10,818 --> 01:38:13,087
I can easily imagine that

2785
01:38:13,087 --> 01:38:14,388
the decision-making might've

2786
01:38:14,388 --> 01:38:15,723
been as simple as Saud

2787
01:38:15,723 --> 01:38:17,424
al-Qahtani saying, "We have this

2788
01:38:17,424 --> 01:38:19,660
dissident.

2789
01:38:19,660 --> 01:38:20,961
We will conduct a rendition

2790
01:38:20,961 --> 01:38:23,130
operation from Istanbul," and

2791
01:38:23,130 --> 01:38:25,599
being told, "Go ahead."

2792
01:38:25,599 --> 01:38:26,700
>> SMITH: So you have contacts

2793
01:38:26,700 --> 01:38:28,302
within Saudi Arabia at high

2794
01:38:28,302 --> 01:38:29,670
levels that tell you that this

2795
01:38:29,670 --> 01:38:31,872
was a rendition?

2796
01:38:31,872 --> 01:38:33,774
>> Yes.

2797
01:38:33,774 --> 01:38:36,010
♪ ♪

2798
01:38:36,010 --> 01:38:37,578
>> SMITH: But the Saudis insist

2799
01:38:37,578 --> 01:38:40,481
MBS gave no such authorization.

2800
01:38:40,481 --> 01:38:41,782
They say it was a rogue

2801
01:38:41,782 --> 01:38:43,450
operation.

2802
01:38:43,450 --> 01:38:45,285
You're saying that this is being

2803
01:38:45,285 --> 01:38:46,587
investigated by the public

2804
01:38:46,587 --> 01:38:47,688
prosecutor?

2805
01:38:47,688 --> 01:38:48,655
>> Yes.

2806
01:38:48,655 --> 01:38:49,656
>> SMITH: But at the same time,

2807
01:38:49,656 --> 01:38:51,225
you have declared it a rogue

2808
01:38:51,225 --> 01:38:52,026
operation.

2809
01:38:52,026 --> 01:38:53,293
So you've reached a conclusion

2810
01:38:53,293 --> 01:38:54,595
that this was a rogue operation

2811
01:38:54,595 --> 01:38:55,763
before the investigation is

2812
01:38:55,763 --> 01:38:56,864
complete?

2813
01:38:56,864 --> 01:38:57,731
>> Of course it's a rogue

2814
01:38:57,731 --> 01:38:58,465
operation.

2815
01:38:58,465 --> 01:38:59,566
Nobody authorized this.

2816
01:38:59,566 --> 01:39:00,567
Who would authorize the murder

2817
01:39:00,567 --> 01:39:01,535
of a citizen...

2818
01:39:01,535 --> 01:39:02,536
>> SMITH: How do we know until

2819
01:39:02,536 --> 01:39:03,737
there is an investigation?

2820
01:39:03,737 --> 01:39:05,439
>> It seems to me that you have

2821
01:39:05,439 --> 01:39:07,441
made up your mind before you

2822
01:39:07,441 --> 01:39:08,342
watched the due process...

2823
01:39:08,342 --> 01:39:09,343
>> SMITH: No, you've made up

2824
01:39:09,343 --> 01:39:10,344
your mind that it's a rogue

2825
01:39:10,344 --> 01:39:11,011
operation.

2826
01:39:11,011 --> 01:39:12,012
>> It is, it is a rogue

2827
01:39:12,012 --> 01:39:12,946
operation because there is no

2828
01:39:12,946 --> 01:39:13,847
authorization for them to commit

2829
01:39:13,847 --> 01:39:14,748
this crime.

2830
01:39:14,748 --> 01:39:15,716
There was no authorization for

2831
01:39:15,716 --> 01:39:16,717
them to commit this crime.

2832
01:39:16,717 --> 01:39:17,718
That's why it's a rogue

2833
01:39:17,718 --> 01:39:18,385
operation.

2834
01:39:18,385 --> 01:39:19,453
>> SMITH: How do we know that

2835
01:39:19,453 --> 01:39:20,554
this was a rogue operation?

2836
01:39:20,554 --> 01:39:21,522
You say it's a rogue operation.

2837
01:39:21,855 --> 01:39:23,457
>> Uh, because, because our

2838
01:39:23,457 --> 01:39:24,892
leadership says it was a rogue

2839
01:39:24,892 --> 01:39:26,727
operation, and our leadership

2840
01:39:26,727 --> 01:39:28,529
has not lied to us before.

2841
01:39:28,529 --> 01:39:29,430
So we believe them.

2842
01:39:29,430 --> 01:39:30,597
>> SMITH: There were a series of

2843
01:39:30,597 --> 01:39:31,965
statements made immediately

2844
01:39:31,965 --> 01:39:34,001
after the killing of Jamal

2845
01:39:34,001 --> 01:39:35,936
Khashoggi that have proven to be

2846
01:39:35,936 --> 01:39:37,104
false, that have proven to be

2847
01:39:37,104 --> 01:39:37,938
lies.

2848
01:39:37,938 --> 01:39:39,306
>> That were based on reporting

2849
01:39:39,306 --> 01:39:40,707
by this rogue element.

2850
01:39:40,707 --> 01:39:42,876
And they're going to be taken to

2851
01:39:42,876 --> 01:39:47,381
court and face their-their fate.

2852
01:39:47,381 --> 01:39:48,549
♪ ♪

2853
01:39:48,549 --> 01:39:49,550
>> SMITH: The Saudis have been

2854
01:39:49,550 --> 01:39:51,351
unclear about who authorized the

2855
01:39:51,351 --> 01:39:53,921
operation.

2856
01:39:53,921 --> 01:39:55,489
But they have said one man,

2857
01:39:55,489 --> 01:39:57,157
General Ahmed al-Asiri, the

2858
01:39:57,157 --> 01:39:58,992
former spokesman for MBS' war in

2859
01:39:58,992 --> 01:40:00,761
Yemen, was involved in the

2860
01:40:00,761 --> 01:40:01,962
planning.

2861
01:40:01,962 --> 01:40:02,963
>> SMITH: You know General

2862
01:40:02,963 --> 01:40:03,831
Asiri.

2863
01:40:03,831 --> 01:40:04,565
>> Yes.

2864
01:40:04,565 --> 01:40:05,632
>> SMITH: Do you think he's in

2865
01:40:05,632 --> 01:40:06,700
any way capable of mounting an

2866
01:40:06,700 --> 01:40:07,835
operation like this?

2867
01:40:07,835 --> 01:40:08,836
>> On his own?

2868
01:40:08,836 --> 01:40:10,537
Absolutely not.

2869
01:40:10,537 --> 01:40:12,072
He wouldn't dream up a plot like

2870
01:40:12,072 --> 01:40:13,640
this.

2871
01:40:13,640 --> 01:40:15,342
This is a servant of the state,

2872
01:40:15,342 --> 01:40:17,344
used to taking orders.

2873
01:40:17,344 --> 01:40:19,179
It's just not in the nature of

2874
01:40:19,179 --> 01:40:21,448
how the Saudi bureaucracy works.

2875
01:40:26,320 --> 01:40:30,424
They got caught red-handed.

2876
01:40:30,424 --> 01:40:32,326
They attempted to come up with a

2877
01:40:32,326 --> 01:40:33,894
cover story.

2878
01:40:33,894 --> 01:40:35,462
But the cover story doesn't add

2879
01:40:35,462 --> 01:40:36,930
up.

2880
01:40:36,930 --> 01:40:38,932
>> It was carried out poorly,

2881
01:40:38,932 --> 01:40:40,234
and the cover-up was one of the

2882
01:40:40,234 --> 01:40:42,269
worst in the history of

2883
01:40:42,269 --> 01:40:43,137
cover-ups.

2884
01:40:43,137 --> 01:40:44,171
>> SMITH: There are so many

2885
01:40:44,171 --> 01:40:45,405
holes in your story, the story

2886
01:40:45,405 --> 01:40:46,406
that you put out there.

2887
01:40:46,406 --> 01:40:47,441
Even the president in the United

2888
01:40:47,441 --> 01:40:48,742
States said, "This is the worst

2889
01:40:48,742 --> 01:40:50,544
cover-up I've ever seen."

2890
01:40:50,544 --> 01:40:52,012
>> With all due respect, we-we

2891
01:40:52,012 --> 01:40:54,781
put out the stories as we have

2892
01:40:54,781 --> 01:40:56,350
it, based on the facts that were

2893
01:40:56,350 --> 01:40:58,719
established.

2894
01:40:58,719 --> 01:41:00,354
We have never, in the history of

2895
01:41:00,354 --> 01:41:02,055
Saudi Arabia, had a situation

2896
01:41:02,055 --> 01:41:03,557
where a Saudi citizen was

2897
01:41:03,557 --> 01:41:05,559
murdered.

2898
01:41:05,559 --> 01:41:06,994
This is not how we operate, and

2899
01:41:06,994 --> 01:41:09,763
this is not what our values are.

2900
01:41:09,763 --> 01:41:10,697
>> SMITH: Is there anything

2901
01:41:10,697 --> 01:41:12,232
about this young prince that

2902
01:41:12,232 --> 01:41:13,367
worries you?

2903
01:41:13,367 --> 01:41:14,401
>> You know what my only worry

2904
01:41:14,401 --> 01:41:16,236
is?

2905
01:41:16,236 --> 01:41:18,005
I reached an age where I don't

2906
01:41:18,005 --> 01:41:20,407
know if I'll be around when the

2907
01:41:20,407 --> 01:41:22,309
fruits of what is happening in

2908
01:41:22,309 --> 01:41:24,545
Saudi Arabia will be picked.

2909
01:41:24,545 --> 01:41:27,281
Because I see the kingdom moving

2910
01:41:27,281 --> 01:41:28,949
in-in a very, very straight

2911
01:41:28,949 --> 01:41:31,985
way towards the wellbeing of

2912
01:41:31,985 --> 01:41:33,720
of-of Saudis and hopefully the

2913
01:41:33,720 --> 01:41:35,255
wellbeing of the world.

2914
01:41:35,255 --> 01:41:37,691
♪ ♪

2915
01:41:37,691 --> 01:41:39,426
>> SMITH: On November 16, the

2916
01:41:39,426 --> 01:41:41,295
C.I.A. concluded that Prince

2917
01:41:41,295 --> 01:41:43,063
Mohammed ordered the murder of

2918
01:41:43,063 --> 01:41:45,265
Khashoggi.

2919
01:41:45,265 --> 01:41:46,800
They refused to comment publicly

2920
01:41:46,800 --> 01:41:47,834
about it.

2921
01:41:47,834 --> 01:41:49,436
But Secretary of State Mike

2922
01:41:49,436 --> 01:41:52,272
Pompeo did.

2923
01:41:52,272 --> 01:41:53,774
>> I've read every piece of

2924
01:41:53,774 --> 01:41:55,108
intelligence, unless it's come

2925
01:41:55,108 --> 01:41:56,443
in the last few hours.

2926
01:41:56,443 --> 01:41:58,545
There is no direct reporting

2927
01:41:58,545 --> 01:42:00,714
connecting the crown prince to

2928
01:42:00,714 --> 01:42:01,748
the order to murder Jamal

2929
01:42:01,748 --> 01:42:02,849
Khashoggi.

2930
01:42:02,849 --> 01:42:04,117
And that's all I can say in an

2931
01:42:04,117 --> 01:42:06,053
unclassified setting.

2932
01:42:06,053 --> 01:42:07,554
>> SMITH: But immediately after

2933
01:42:07,554 --> 01:42:09,489
Pompeo's comments, someone

2934
01:42:09,489 --> 01:42:10,924
leaked a summary of the report

2935
01:42:10,924 --> 01:42:12,125
to a "Wall Street Journal"

2936
01:42:12,125 --> 01:42:13,827
reporter, Warren Strobel.

2937
01:42:15,529 --> 01:42:17,631
Yeah, I've got it right here.

2938
01:42:17,631 --> 01:42:19,666
You're the only reporter that

2939
01:42:19,666 --> 01:42:21,602
I'm aware of that has seen that

2940
01:42:21,602 --> 01:42:22,836
C.I.A. report.

2941
01:42:22,836 --> 01:42:23,837
>> I believe I am the only

2942
01:42:23,837 --> 01:42:24,905
reporter even to this day who

2943
01:42:24,905 --> 01:42:26,340
has seen the C.I.A. report.

2944
01:42:26,340 --> 01:42:27,507
>> SMITH: Why were you shown

2945
01:42:27,507 --> 01:42:28,675
this report?

2946
01:42:28,675 --> 01:42:29,876
>> I don't know, to this day.

2947
01:42:29,876 --> 01:42:31,011
I can only speculate.

2948
01:42:31,011 --> 01:42:33,146
My analysis is that this person

2949
01:42:33,146 --> 01:42:36,116
was upset that the intelligence

2950
01:42:36,116 --> 01:42:37,718
was being portrayed differently

2951
01:42:37,718 --> 01:42:38,719
by the president of the United

2952
01:42:38,719 --> 01:42:39,720
States and Secretary of State

2953
01:42:39,720 --> 01:42:41,121
Mike Pompeo.

2954
01:42:42,089 --> 01:42:43,223
>> They do point out certain

2955
01:42:43,223 --> 01:42:44,691
things, and in pointing out

2956
01:42:44,691 --> 01:42:46,426
those things, you can conclude

2957
01:42:46,426 --> 01:42:47,861
that maybe he did or maybe he

2958
01:42:47,861 --> 01:42:48,695
didn't.

2959
01:42:48,695 --> 01:42:49,830
But there's... that was another

2960
01:42:49,830 --> 01:42:51,732
part of the false reporting.

2961
01:42:51,732 --> 01:42:52,866
>> President Trump and Secretary

2962
01:42:52,866 --> 01:42:54,034
of State Mike Pompeo over and

2963
01:42:54,034 --> 01:42:55,402
over have pointed to the fact

2964
01:42:55,402 --> 01:42:57,271
that U.S. intelligence does not

2965
01:42:57,271 --> 01:42:59,473
have evidence of a kill order.

2966
01:43:00,040 --> 01:43:01,241
But they sort of stop there.

2967
01:43:01,241 --> 01:43:02,242
And if you actually read the

2968
01:43:02,242 --> 01:43:03,644
C.I.A. assessment, as I have,

2969
01:43:03,644 --> 01:43:05,646
everything else in that points a

2970
01:43:05,646 --> 01:43:07,614
finger at the crown prince as

2971
01:43:07,614 --> 01:43:08,515
having a role.

2972
01:43:09,316 --> 01:43:10,617
>> The C.I.A. has looked at it,

2973
01:43:10,617 --> 01:43:12,085
they've studied it a lot, they

2974
01:43:12,085 --> 01:43:13,820
have nothing definitive.

2975
01:43:13,820 --> 01:43:15,656
We are with Saudi Arabia.

2976
01:43:15,656 --> 01:43:18,358
We're staying with Saudi Arabia.

2977
01:43:18,358 --> 01:43:19,192
Have a good time, everybody,

2978
01:43:19,192 --> 01:43:19,760
thank you.

2979
01:43:19,760 --> 01:43:20,694
>> The president here is

2980
01:43:20,694 --> 01:43:22,529
positioning himself to be able

2981
01:43:22,529 --> 01:43:24,298
to not take tougher measures

2982
01:43:24,298 --> 01:43:25,599
against Saudi Arabia...

2983
01:43:25,599 --> 01:43:26,600
>> Trump's response is a slap in

2984
01:43:26,600 --> 01:43:27,934
the face to the intelligence

2985
01:43:27,934 --> 01:43:29,336
community.

2986
01:43:29,336 --> 01:43:33,307
♪ ♪

2987
01:43:33,307 --> 01:43:35,042
>> SMITH: And there was more.

2988
01:43:35,042 --> 01:43:35,776
It was reported that 

2989
01:43:35,776 --> 01:43:37,110
on the day of the murder, Maher

2990
01:43:37,110 --> 01:43:39,746
Mutreb made a call.

2991
01:43:39,746 --> 01:43:41,481
He said, in effect, "Tell your

2992
01:43:41,481 --> 01:43:44,885
boss the deed was done."

2993
01:43:45,652 --> 01:43:46,820
>> The phone number that was

2994
01:43:46,820 --> 01:43:49,389
being called in Riyadh was the

2995
01:43:49,389 --> 01:43:51,158
crown prince's office.

2996
01:43:51,158 --> 01:43:52,426
Doesn't get much better than

2997
01:43:52,426 --> 01:43:53,961
that.

2998
01:43:54,428 --> 01:43:55,462
If you call the White House

2999
01:43:55,462 --> 01:43:57,698
Situation Room, I come to the

3000
01:43:57,698 --> 01:43:58,999
conclusion the White House knows

3001
01:43:58,999 --> 01:44:01,401
what's going on.

3002
01:44:03,970 --> 01:44:05,439
>> SMITH: Last December I talked

3003
01:44:05,439 --> 01:44:06,540
to Prince Mohammed at the race

3004
01:44:06,540 --> 01:44:07,941
track.

3005
01:44:07,941 --> 01:44:09,309
He spoke about his role in the

3006
01:44:09,309 --> 01:44:10,043
Khashoggi murder for the first

3007
01:44:10,043 --> 01:44:10,911
time.

3008
01:44:14,181 --> 01:44:16,183
My camera was outside,

3009
01:44:16,183 --> 01:44:18,185
but he said:

3010
01:44:18,185 --> 01:44:20,187
"It happened under my watch.

3011
01:44:20,187 --> 01:44:21,855
I get all the responsibility,

3012
01:44:21,855 --> 01:44:22,956
because it happened under

3013
01:44:22,956 --> 01:44:25,625
my watch.

3014
01:44:25,625 --> 01:44:27,627
I really take it very seriously.

3015
01:44:27,627 --> 01:44:29,062
I don't want to tell you,

3016
01:44:29,062 --> 01:44:31,331
'No I didn't do it or I did do

3017
01:44:31,331 --> 01:44:32,666
it', or whatever.

3018
01:44:32,666 --> 01:44:36,370
That's just words."

3019
01:44:36,370 --> 01:44:37,471
I asked him how it could

3020
01:44:37,471 --> 01:44:38,271
happen without him knowing

3021
01:44:38,271 --> 01:44:40,841
about it.

3022
01:44:40,841 --> 01:44:42,109
"Accidents happen.

3023
01:44:42,109 --> 01:44:43,710
Can you imagine?

3024
01:44:43,710 --> 01:44:45,579
We have twenty million people.

3025
01:44:45,579 --> 01:44:46,913
We have three million government

3026
01:44:46,913 --> 01:44:50,183
employees, I am not Google, or

3027
01:44:50,183 --> 01:44:52,085
a supercomputer to watch over

3028
01:44:52,085 --> 01:44:54,488
three million."

3029
01:44:54,488 --> 01:44:55,622
"They can take one of your

3030
01:44:55,622 --> 01:44:57,758
planes?" I asked.

3031
01:44:57,758 --> 01:44:59,626
"I have officials, ministers to

3032
01:44:59,626 --> 01:45:01,061
follow things, and they're

3033
01:45:01,061 --> 01:45:03,430
responsible, they have the 

3034
01:45:03,430 --> 01:45:06,533
authority to do that."

3035
01:45:06,533 --> 01:45:07,768
"But during it, Qahtani is 

3036
01:45:07,768 --> 01:45:08,402
texting you.

3037
01:45:08,402 --> 01:45:10,203
Right?" I asked.

3038
01:45:10,203 --> 01:45:13,640
"Yeah he texts me every day."

3039
01:45:13,640 --> 01:45:15,142
I was curious about those

3040
01:45:15,142 --> 01:45:16,376
texts.

3041
01:45:16,376 --> 01:45:17,744
They had been cited in the

3042
01:45:17,744 --> 01:45:19,846
C.I.A. report linking MBS to

3043
01:45:19,846 --> 01:45:23,083
the killing of Khashoggi.

3044
01:45:23,083 --> 01:45:23,950
♪ ♪

3045
01:45:24,751 --> 01:45:29,322
MBS insisted they were innocent.

3046
01:45:29,322 --> 01:45:30,924
Later I learned that the Saudis

3047
01:45:30,924 --> 01:45:31,992
had hired a business

3048
01:45:31,992 --> 01:45:33,960
intelligence firm, Kroll, to

3049
01:45:33,960 --> 01:45:36,163
examine the texts.

3050
01:45:36,163 --> 01:45:37,731
MBS wanted to share them with

3051
01:45:37,731 --> 01:45:40,066
the C.I.A.

3052
01:45:40,066 --> 01:45:41,435
I was allowed to look at Kroll's

3053
01:45:41,435 --> 01:45:44,971
report in Washington.

3054
01:45:44,971 --> 01:45:46,173
The texts don't refer to

3055
01:45:46,173 --> 01:45:48,241
Khashoggi or say anything about

3056
01:45:48,241 --> 01:45:50,644
a kidnapping or a murder.

3057
01:45:50,644 --> 01:45:52,946
But then the NSA discovered they

3058
01:45:52,946 --> 01:45:54,448
had some damning evidence 

3059
01:45:54,448 --> 01:45:55,415
all along.

3060
01:45:55,415 --> 01:45:57,384
They just didn't realize it.

3061
01:45:57,884 --> 01:45:59,619
>> After Khashoggi's killed, the

3062
01:45:59,619 --> 01:46:01,021
United States intelligence

3063
01:46:01,021 --> 01:46:03,223
community starts looking

3064
01:46:03,223 --> 01:46:06,359
backwards, scrubbing intercepts

3065
01:46:06,359 --> 01:46:08,395
that they had picked up over

3066
01:46:08,395 --> 01:46:09,963
years.

3067
01:46:09,963 --> 01:46:11,364
>> SMITH: And they find MBS

3068
01:46:11,364 --> 01:46:12,933
chatting with Qahtani back in

3069
01:46:12,933 --> 01:46:15,836
2017.

3070
01:46:15,836 --> 01:46:17,137
>> Mohammed bin Salman is

3071
01:46:17,137 --> 01:46:20,006
expressing frustration and

3072
01:46:20,006 --> 01:46:22,676
annoyance about Khashoggi,

3073
01:46:22,676 --> 01:46:24,778
saying he's becoming more

3074
01:46:24,778 --> 01:46:26,446
influential.

3075
01:46:26,446 --> 01:46:27,581
>> SMITH: Qahtani cautioned

3076
01:46:27,581 --> 01:46:29,082
Prince Mohammed that any move

3077
01:46:29,082 --> 01:46:31,051
against Khashoggi was risky and

3078
01:46:31,051 --> 01:46:32,586
could create an international

3079
01:46:32,586 --> 01:46:34,721
uproar.

3080
01:46:34,721 --> 01:46:36,456
MBS scolded Qahtani for being

3081
01:46:36,456 --> 01:46:40,360
too cautious.

3082
01:46:40,360 --> 01:46:41,561
And then...

3083
01:46:41,561 --> 01:46:42,562
>> There's a conversation

3084
01:46:42,562 --> 01:46:43,930
between Mohammed bin Salman and

3085
01:46:43,930 --> 01:46:45,799
another influential advisor,

3086
01:46:45,799 --> 01:46:47,300
and Prince Mohammed says, "If

3087
01:46:47,300 --> 01:46:49,002
we can't bring Jamal back by

3088
01:46:49,002 --> 01:46:50,537
force, we should show him a

3089
01:46:50,537 --> 01:46:54,107
bullet."

3090
01:46:54,107 --> 01:46:55,075
>> Thank you for waiting.

3091
01:46:55,075 --> 01:46:57,310
Saudia flight...

3092
01:46:57,310 --> 01:46:58,545
with service to Riyadh like to

3093
01:46:58,545 --> 01:47:00,213
continue boarding with all

3094
01:47:00,213 --> 01:47:01,381
passengers sitting in rows

3095
01:47:01,381 --> 01:47:03,049
two, three, and four.

3096
01:47:03,049 --> 01:47:04,117
>> SMITH: I returned to Saudi

3097
01:47:04,117 --> 01:47:06,486
Arabia one last time in April

3098
01:47:06,486 --> 01:47:08,955
2019.

3099
01:47:08,955 --> 01:47:10,457
The crown prince had promised to

3100
01:47:10,457 --> 01:47:12,759
meet with me again.

3101
01:47:12,759 --> 01:47:14,694
I came prepared with many more

3102
01:47:14,694 --> 01:47:16,363
questions.

3103
01:47:16,363 --> 01:47:20,534
♪ ♪

3104
01:47:25,872 --> 01:47:27,841
When I arrived, he changed his

3105
01:47:27,841 --> 01:47:29,342
mind.

3106
01:47:29,342 --> 01:47:31,044
I was not able to ask any more

3107
01:47:31,044 --> 01:47:32,712
questions about the Khashoggi

3108
01:47:32,712 --> 01:47:34,948
murder.

3109
01:47:34,948 --> 01:47:36,283
But more evidence kept on

3110
01:47:36,283 --> 01:47:37,717
coming.

3111
01:47:37,717 --> 01:47:39,886
In June, Agnes Callamard, a

3112
01:47:39,886 --> 01:47:41,321
United Nations human rights

3113
01:47:41,321 --> 01:47:43,323
expert, issued the most detailed

3114
01:47:43,323 --> 01:47:45,091
report to date on the Khashoggi

3115
01:47:45,091 --> 01:47:47,294
killing.

3116
01:47:47,294 --> 01:47:48,628
I saw her in London at a

3117
01:47:48,628 --> 01:47:52,198
conference.

3118
01:47:52,198 --> 01:47:54,200
>> ...killing of Mr. Khashoggi,

3119
01:47:54,200 --> 01:47:58,471
15 agent flew to Turkey, eight

3120
01:47:58,471 --> 01:48:01,474
of them in a private jet

3121
01:48:01,474 --> 01:48:04,411
which had diplomatic clearance,

3122
01:48:04,411 --> 01:48:06,780
two of them had diplomatic

3123
01:48:06,780 --> 01:48:07,881
passports.

3124
01:48:07,881 --> 01:48:10,083
There is no other conclusion

3125
01:48:10,083 --> 01:48:12,185
but that the killing of Mr.

3126
01:48:12,185 --> 01:48:14,287
Khashoggi is a state killing.

3127
01:48:14,287 --> 01:48:16,456
It should be seen to constitute

3128
01:48:16,456 --> 01:48:18,758
an international crime for which

3129
01:48:18,758 --> 01:48:21,728
universal jurisdiction attract.

3130
01:48:21,728 --> 01:48:22,762
>> SMITH: In preparing her

3131
01:48:22,762 --> 01:48:24,564
report, Callamard was granted

3132
01:48:24,564 --> 01:48:26,099
access to the audio recordings

3133
01:48:26,099 --> 01:48:27,701
of the hit team as they

3134
01:48:27,701 --> 01:48:28,835
discussed their plans.

3135
01:48:29,703 --> 01:48:31,905
>> I listened to the tapes

3136
01:48:31,905 --> 01:48:33,907
within the premise of the

3137
01:48:33,907 --> 01:48:35,442
Turkish intelligence.

3138
01:48:36,309 --> 01:48:37,377
>> SMITH: And you heard a

3139
01:48:37,377 --> 01:48:38,378
conversation.

3140
01:48:38,378 --> 01:48:40,080
Tell us about that conversation.

3141
01:48:40,080 --> 01:48:41,948
>> So that conversation is

3142
01:48:41,948 --> 01:48:44,084
within an hour before the

3143
01:48:44,084 --> 01:48:45,051
killing.

3144
01:48:45,051 --> 01:48:48,288
Mutreb is asking whether or not

3145
01:48:48,288 --> 01:48:50,590
the trunk of the body will fit

3146
01:48:50,590 --> 01:48:52,325
into a normal bag.

3147
01:48:52,325 --> 01:48:55,128
"Does it need a stronger bag?

3148
01:48:55,128 --> 01:48:58,331
How do you disjoint a body?"

3149
01:48:58,331 --> 01:49:00,934
That too is being discussed.

3150
01:49:00,934 --> 01:49:03,837
Tubaigy, the doctor, raises some

3151
01:49:03,837 --> 01:49:06,806
issues regarding having to cut

3152
01:49:06,806 --> 01:49:07,907
on the ground, because he's

3153
01:49:07,907 --> 01:49:09,275
never done that.

3154
01:49:09,275 --> 01:49:11,845
They are seemingly rehearsing,

3155
01:49:11,845 --> 01:49:13,780
planning, the act of killing an

3156
01:49:13,780 --> 01:49:15,482
hour later.

3157
01:49:15,482 --> 01:49:16,716
>> Five months since the

3158
01:49:16,716 --> 01:49:17,984
horrible murder...

3159
01:49:17,984 --> 01:49:19,052
>> SMITH: At the London

3160
01:49:19,052 --> 01:49:20,220
conference, Callamard joined

3161
01:49:20,220 --> 01:49:22,555
Khashoggi's fiancée and others

3162
01:49:22,555 --> 01:49:24,524
calling for her report to spur

3163
01:49:24,524 --> 01:49:26,126
further action.

3164
01:49:26,126 --> 01:49:28,361
>> I would like to ask you all

3165
01:49:28,361 --> 01:49:31,231
to use this report as a means to

3166
01:49:31,231 --> 01:49:34,234
prevent an attempt to silence us

3167
01:49:34,234 --> 01:49:36,469
or push the matter under the

3168
01:49:36,469 --> 01:49:37,304
carpet.

3169
01:49:52,052 --> 01:49:53,119
>> This is about the freedom of

3170
01:49:53,119 --> 01:49:55,121
people to say what they want, to

3171
01:49:55,121 --> 01:49:56,156
tweet what they want, to blog

3172
01:49:56,156 --> 01:49:57,290
what they want, to speak about

3173
01:49:57,290 --> 01:49:58,591
what they want without fear that

3174
01:49:58,591 --> 01:50:01,294
they will be executed for it.

3175
01:50:01,294 --> 01:50:02,562
>> The fact that the killing of

3176
01:50:02,562 --> 01:50:05,098
Jamal Khashoggi is still making

3177
01:50:05,098 --> 01:50:06,666
the news, that needs to

3178
01:50:06,666 --> 01:50:08,568
continue, because that's what is

3179
01:50:08,568 --> 01:50:10,203
going to annoy the hell out of

3180
01:50:10,203 --> 01:50:12,539
them and be the mosquito in the

3181
01:50:12,539 --> 01:50:14,874
tent that they can't ever get

3182
01:50:14,874 --> 01:50:16,876
rid of.

3183
01:50:16,876 --> 01:50:17,944
>> Thank you very much, Agnes,

3184
01:50:17,944 --> 01:50:19,012
thank you.

3185
01:50:19,012 --> 01:50:20,847
(applause)

3186
01:50:20,847 --> 01:50:24,818
♪ ♪

3187
01:50:28,521 --> 01:50:30,023
>> SMITH: To date, MBS has

3188
01:50:30,023 --> 01:50:31,591
offered no apology for the

3189
01:50:31,591 --> 01:50:34,394
killing of Khashoggi, and he

3190
01:50:34,394 --> 01:50:36,496
still insists those responsible

3191
01:50:36,496 --> 01:50:38,364
will be brought to justice for

3192
01:50:38,364 --> 01:50:42,302
what he called a heinous crime.

3193
01:50:42,302 --> 01:50:44,237
In the meantime, he continues to

3194
01:50:44,237 --> 01:50:47,874
pursue his Vision 2030.

3195
01:50:47,874 --> 01:50:49,442
("Feel So Close"

3196
01:50:49,442 --> 01:50:50,744
by Calvin Harris playing)

3197
01:50:50,744 --> 01:50:54,447
(DJ talking indistinctly)

3198
01:50:54,447 --> 01:50:57,684
>> Here we go, one, two,

3199
01:50:57,684 --> 01:51:00,186
two, three, go! 

3200
01:51:00,186 --> 01:51:01,354
>> SMITH: With sporting events

3201
01:51:01,354 --> 01:51:03,022
and big concerts,

3202
01:51:03,022 --> 01:51:04,124
he is trying to win

3203
01:51:04,124 --> 01:51:05,925
the hearts of young Saudis.

3204
01:51:06,659 --> 01:51:09,195
(pop music playing,

3205
01:51:09,195 --> 01:51:12,265
concertgoers singing along)

3206
01:51:12,265 --> 01:51:13,867
His defenders say that the

3207
01:51:13,867 --> 01:51:15,068
Khashoggi murder and his

3208
01:51:15,068 --> 01:51:16,903
campaign against dissent should

3209
01:51:16,903 --> 01:51:19,139
not outweigh everything else he

3210
01:51:19,139 --> 01:51:20,874
has achieved.

3211
01:51:20,874 --> 01:51:26,946
(pop music playing, cheering)

3212
01:51:37,323 --> 01:51:39,325
(music continues, cheering)

3213
01:51:44,030 --> 01:51:48,535
♪ ♪

3214
01:52:14,661 --> 01:52:17,530
♪ ♪

3215
01:52:36,649 --> 01:52:37,984
>> The Philippine leader has

3216
01:52:37,984 --> 01:52:39,185
faced harsh criticism 

3217
01:52:39,185 --> 01:52:40,420
for launching a bloody 

3218
01:52:40,420 --> 01:52:41,588
drug war.

3219
01:52:41,588 --> 01:52:42,589
Thousands of people have

3220
01:52:42,589 --> 01:52:43,656
been killed in the brutal

3221
01:52:43,656 --> 01:52:44,524
crackdown.

3222
01:52:46,259 --> 01:52:48,361
>> My campaign against drugs...

3223
01:52:48,361 --> 01:52:49,796
(screaming)

3224
01:52:49,796 --> 01:52:51,364
...will not stop...

3225
01:52:51,364 --> 01:52:54,033
(laughing)

3226
01:52:54,033 --> 01:52:56,302
...until the last pusher...   

3227
01:52:56,302 --> 01:52:57,337
(shouting)

3228
01:52:57,337 --> 01:52:59,739
...and the last drug lord are ━

3229
01:52:59,739 --> 01:53:00,940
(throat cutting noise) 

3230
01:53:06,145 --> 01:53:09,315
>> Go to pbs.org/frontline for 

3231
01:53:09,315 --> 01:53:10,516
reflections on Jamal

3232
01:53:10,516 --> 01:53:11,417
Khashoggi from friends and

3233
01:53:11,417 --> 01:53:12,685
colleagues.

3234
01:53:12,685 --> 01:53:15,088
>> I think his ultimate desire

3235
01:53:15,088 --> 01:53:16,923
was to see his people

3236
01:53:16,923 --> 01:53:18,057
enjoy some of the

3237
01:53:18,057 --> 01:53:19,292
same freedoms that he had here

3238
01:53:19,292 --> 01:53:20,827
in the U.S.

3239
01:53:20,827 --> 01:53:22,795
>> See a timeline of MBS' rise 

3240
01:53:22,795 --> 01:53:24,631
to power, and our reporting

3241
01:53:24,631 --> 01:53:26,599
on tensions in the region.

3242
01:53:26,599 --> 01:53:27,400
>> Connect to the FRONTLINE

3243
01:53:27,400 --> 01:53:28,701
community on Facebook and

3244
01:53:28,701 --> 01:53:30,970
Twitter, and watch anytime on

3245
01:53:30,970 --> 01:53:32,839
the PBS Video App or

3246
01:53:32,839 --> 01:53:34,374
pbs.org/frontline.

3247
01:53:54,761 --> 01:53:55,662
Captioned by

3248
01:53:55,662 --> 01:53:56,529
Media Access Group at WGBH

3249
01:53:56,529 --> 01:53:58,198
access.wgbh.org

3250
01:54:02,969 --> 01:54:04,037
>> For more on this and other

3251
01:54:04,037 --> 01:54:06,072
"Frontline" programs, visit our 

3252
01:54:06,072 --> 01:54:08,508
website at pbs.org/frontline.

3253
01:54:12,979 --> 01:54:15,381
♪ ♪

3254
01:54:18,351 --> 01:54:19,652
To order FRONTLINE's,

3255
01:54:19,652 --> 01:54:22,822
"The Crown Prince"

3256
01:54:22,822 --> 01:54:24,590
on DVD, visit ShopPBS

3257
01:54:24,590 --> 01:54:27,360
or call 1-800-PLAY-PBS.

3258
01:54:27,360 --> 01:54:28,962
This program is also available

3259
01:54:28,962 --> 01:54:29,662
on Amazon Prime Video.

3260
01:54:35,935 --> 00:00:00,000
♪ ♪