my name is Chris culling and uh I'm
gonna be giving a talk today on
undiagnosed neurodiversity
um and uh if y'all having trouble
hearing me apologize
um but um before I get started I just
wanted to uh give a disclaimer that I'm
not a medical professional and so
everything I say is just based on my own
lived experience
and uh my opinion so and also um I have
two slides uh this one and one for
resources at the end so you won't have
to worry about Death by PowerPoint
so um
I do have a couple of Nooks though
because I am ADHD and I tend to forget
things
so uh I'm currently working as a uh
senior technical success manager with uh
gigamon on their threat insight and the
r platform
I've been married for 31 years uh to a
woman who will eventually attain
sainthood
my oldest child of three adult children
my oldest is uh she works in the
psychiatric ward of uh Hospital in DC
my middle is uh Army veteran uh who just
recently started a cyber security
program with uh WGU online
and my youngest is uh the uh content
manager for Black Hills information
security
and
she gave me permission last night to let
the world know that uh in May uh I will
be having my first screenshots
so
I'm also uh alcoholic
I've been sober for four years eight
months and 23 days
and I was diagnosed five years ago at
the age of 48 with a severe ADHD anxiety
and depression
and it's all of that that's basically
led up to my talk
uh so for folks that don't know
about neurodiversity
um in the early 90s the term
neurotypical was coined by the medical
industry and it meant basically
everybody whose brain operated at a
normal Baseline what they considered
normal
they didn't really address the folks who
didn't operate at that Baseline so a
couple years later the term neurodiverse
came out
to cover everyone else whose brains
operate differently from those folks
through the medical community considered
normal
according to whatever survey you look at
um study uh there's anywhere from five
to twenty five percent of folks are
considered neurodiverse
uh either diagnosed or undiagnosed
if we if we just look at the upper end
of the 25 percent
as I was going through my journey I
started noticing folks in our community
that and it seemed to me that that our
community was higher than 25 of
neurodiverse whether they're diagnosed
or undiagnosed
and it got me to thinking about
how I handled being undiagnosed
so I went spent my The First 48 years of
my life
not knowing that I I my brain was
different and I was suffering from
severe ADHD anxiety and depression
and that was a rough 48 years
I did pretty much everything I could do
to sabotage myself sabotage success
and for folks that that do deal with
ADHD you know what I'm talking about
um
and one of the things that that uh
that as undiagnosed neurodiversity
we tend to
self-medicate
and there's all sorts of ways that you
can self-medicate risky Behavior you
know risky activities alcohol drugs
really anything that will help
increase the chemicals in your brain so
that your executive function which is
impacted uh by the ADHD
uh so that those chemicals will will
well for a short period of time give you
that dopamine rush if you will to try to
make you feel normal or make you feel
you know better than than you've been
feeling because you just don't know
what's what's going on with you
um executive function controls things
like self-control short-term memory
the ability to to to go with the flow
flexibility
planning organizational skills
very important things that folks need as
adults
and if you don't realize that
you have a situ a condition
that you're different you don't know how
to deal with it
and so early on one of the ways I tried
to deal with it
was um
through
I I tried this I tried to to destroy my
marriage
many times over about a 15-year period
I did everything I could
to
push away the the people that I loved
because I I didn't feel I could take
care of myself
I didn't know what was wrong but I just
knew that there was something wrong and
I couldn't I couldn't adult
and I didn't want the responsibility
many times of having to deal with other
people in my life
and
too many times I tried to to to to
destroy my marriage and fortunately for
me my future saint of a wife
uh stuck around
and um and we got through all that
and um once I got through that though I
still didn't know what was wrong with me
so I I turned to alcohol
we never had alcohol in the house
um just we just weren't drinkers
and a number of years ago one day I
brought home a six-pack six-pack put it
in the fridge my wife asked me what
what's going on there's beer in the
fridge it's like yeah I figured I'd have
a you know cold one after I mow the mow
the lawn or something on the weekend
and then it got to be one cold one and
then two cold ones and then six packs
gone
and so beer didn't last too long
um for me because I was going through it
too quick
uh so I switched to box wine
and the the really cool thing about box
wine for somebody who's heading on their
way to alcoholism is if you buy the
exact same box of wine and leave it in
the same spot in the fridge
then nobody but you knows how quickly
you go through that box of wine
and I was going through that box of wine
to a point where it just wasn't doing
anything for me I still had this feeling
like I was broken I didn't didn't know
what was wrong
and so I eventually switched to to uh
liquor
and the Turning Point came when I
started hiding my drinking from my
family
I wouldn't go out and drink I wouldn't I
drank at home I wasn't violent I wasn't
all I did was I'd come home from work
I'd sit down on the couch
I'd pour me a drink
and I just start to slowly get myself
numb
every single day I just watch TV I
ignored my family
and
and that's how that's how that's the
drunk that I was
I was just quiet and just sat there but
but I ignored my family
and it finally got to a point where
where I ended up as most alcoholics do
by going to the the bottom shelf vodka
uh because you can't smell it you can't
see it and you can put it in anything
in
I was I was to the point where I was
drinking a a fifth of vodka every every
two days basically
and so I wasn't you know I wasn't as bad
as some folks that I've seen but it was
bad enough for me
and it got to a point where in uh April
of 2017
I
woke up it was a Sunday morning
I went downstairs and my wife was
watching TV and I just knelt down in
front of her and put my head in her lap
and I just started crying
and um
I probably cried for half an hour
and um it was ugly it was ugly crying
and and when I
was uh was finally able to start talking
and and explain to her what had been
going on for the last number of years
uh she was she was shocked she catching
a lot she had no idea because I'd hit it
so well because you learned to hide
things like that very well
in
the first thing she said to me once once
we got it together was you need to get
some help
and so I I did it and so I I found a
therapist
I didn't quit drinking
um it took uh
took a number of months after that
before I quit drinking but I found a
therapist and uh found a psychiatrist
and I finally got a diagnosis for for
the ADHD and the anxiety and the
depression
and so
my whole life I thought I was broken
because I didn't know what was wrong
with me I just knew I was different
someone I I read recently that that
folks that are neurotypical don't go
around thinking that they're normal
they just don't they just know they're
normal they don't think about it folks
that are neurodivergent know that
there's something different going on up
here they don't know what it is
uh but they know that they're different
you know as a child a young adult you
know even as an adult you know that
there's something different about you
and
I knew that my whole life
and
most of us end up self-medicating to try
to compensate for that
so when I got this diagnosis of of ADHD
I immediately thought great
you know I'll get some drugs and they'll
fix me
well I learned out pretty quickly that
you don't fix
what's going on up here because there's
nothing to fix
because you're not broke
it's just you're different
not only different but I I put
beautifully different
because
as neurodivergence we we that
there are things about us that are
they're special
you know but it took me a while to
figure that out because
once I was diagnosed and once I started
working with the therapist
not only did I think I was broken but
now I knew why I was broken
I could put a name to what had broken me
and you know you'd read things things
online and stuff about people talking
about their superpowers that they have
with their neurodiversity like with ADHD
we have hyper Focus
you know and I never considered anything
super
about anything that that I had going on
up in here
and
after a while I started to accept the
fact that that okay I'm different
I had a therapist that talked about
skills and pills you know the pills got
my brain chemicals up to the point to
where I could actually work with a
therapist to to get those skills to help
me manage day to day and learn about
things that that I used to do why I used
to do them and and to see me getting
about ready to do them again and to know
that I don't have to do that I can I can
stop and take a step back now that I
have the the medication to help me take
that Split Second to stop and think
uh instead of just reacting
um because my self-control has gone up
because my executive functions have gone
up because of the medication
it's not perfect there's still a Delta
between me and normal uh that I just
have to work on that I just have to
learn those skills
and the whole entire reason for this
talk and for everything that I've said
right now is because I started looking
through our community and seeing how
many folks were were diagnosed
neurodivergence and neurodiversity
covers a whole Spectrum autism ADHD OCD
dyslexia bipolar disorder basically
anything that that where our brain
operates differently from that what they
consider that Baseline normal
and it started occurring to me that a
lot of
the folks in our community don't realize
that they
have something going on up there or they
know it but they're not doing anything
about it
and seeing how how alcohol is so
prevalent in in infosec I started
thinking in my own experience how I was
self-medicating my undiagnosed
neurodiversity I wonder if other folks
in our community are doing the same
thing
and so um I I put this this talk
together to just to to bring an
awareness to folks number one that
if you think there's something different
about you
about what goes on up here if you
thought this your whole life which
usually is the case then there probably
is something different and you should
consider either going online and taking
some there's tests for everything online
they're not they're not uh official but
they can give you a general idea as to
whether or not you know you're close to
some type of neurodiversity
and then go and see a therapist
and
just to find out if there might be
something going on that you can get some
help with
medication is not a bad thing
I know a lot of folks are scared to
death of taking you know one more pill
for something
I take pills for anxiety and depression
I'm working on trying to get
those doses lowered
because I'm learning skills to deal with
anxiety and depression with my ADHD I'm
maxed out and I'm not going to drop that
at all because I need those chemicals
working up in my brain so I can do
everything else
but
the the folks in the community and I I
tweet I tweet a lot about my mental
health and about my alcoholism
just so that other folks know that that
they're not alone so that you know that
they might see something and something
that I say and go oh that reminds me of
something I did the other day or you
know and and and ask for help
and
if anybody is in that boat or if anybody
knows anybody uh who's
possibly neurodivergent but doesn't
accept it or doesn't realize it
you know finding a good therapist is the
the best first step
um but not just any therapist because
they're not created equal
you have to find somebody who
specifically says I work with people
with neurodiversities with ADHD with
autism
those folks know what's going on and
they empathize
I've had I've had uh folks tell me that
we're adults that were diagnosed with
ADHD late in life like I was
the doctor told them yeah you're you
have ADHD but you've learned to cope
with it as an adult so
you're good to go it's like no that's
not how it works because we don't learn
how to cope with it we we develop coping
mechanisms
through our whole life
in order to
to appear normal
masks that we put on you know the the
things we try to do so that others don't
think that we're different you know but
but that takes a toll on you mentally
and physically and emotionally
um and so nobody actually copes with it
unless you're really working with
somebody
with medication and with with therapy on
how to actually deal with things that
come on
um I see a therapist once a week uh
whether I need think I need to or not
because I find out every week that I did
need to
and
the the second point that I want to make
very clear is that we're not broken
you know I know a lot of folks don't
want to go get that diagnosis
because they don't want that label
because they associate that label with
being broken with being not normal
and and that's not the case we're
different
and that's a big distinction that took
me a long time to to understand
um and but once you understand that
you're different and not broken then you
can start working with those differences
that you have
you can you can learn how to harness
that
ability to hyper Focus uh and use it for
good
you'll still end up going till the day
before that project's due and spending
24 hours a week doing it but you'll get
it done and you'll hate yourself
afterwards uh because you'll be so tired
but you will have accomplished it you
won't have gone to sleep at night
because you're you're so hyper focused
on getting that done that when you do
get it done
you know and that's a rush too it's a
dopamine Rush when you're doing that
but when you know that that's what you
do
then you can plan better
you can you can plan out to where okay
maybe I'll do a little hyper Focus today
and then I'll do it next week and then
the week after until I get this project
done instead of doing it every day
because you know
I don't like to work on some long-term
project every day
and
the
two
the other reason a lot of folks don't
like to uh
talk about or or get a diagnosis is
because they're afraid uh of the of
their work situation they're afraid that
if their supervisor knew that they were
Autistic or ADHD or had OCD or what or
anything
that that something negative was going
to happen to them at work
while that's illegal
it obviously it does happen
and so
another piece of this is is for
supervisors and managers of folks to
create an environment uh within your
session your department your company of
of being able to freely talk
about
mental health issues
as a supervisor if you do have
any type of mental health issues that
you deal with is talking openly to your
subordinates and letting them know this
is what I struggle with
this is a safe place if any of you
struggle with anything feel free to let
me know nothing negative is going to
happen to you I will work with you to
reach your full potential
there was a company and I can't remember
who it was about 10 years ago they they
specifically went out and hired
a number of autistic folks
specifically to to work same same job
that everyone else was doing in the
company
and they found out over a period of time
that the autistic folks produced 110 to
140 percent more than their co-workers
and
the the point being is that
you know having a neurodiverse condition
is not a negative it's actually a
positive
um some of the smartest folks that have
ever lived had something going on up
here uh that was different than than
your normal individual walk in the
streets
and so if you create an environment
where
folks are willing to talk about
their mental health issues then you can
work with them
to help them
work in such a way that optimizes their
strengths
you know a lot of folks with ADHD we are
not mourning people
based on our brain chemistry we're we're
not we're but we can work late in the
night without any problems
and if you work from home and if you're
a supervisor and you can let your folks
pick their schedule
that's more conducive to them getting
stuff done then it's going to help them
tremendously a lot of neurotypical or
neurodivergent folks don't work well in
an office cubicle nine to five setting
just because of of any you know sensory
issues that a lot of folks have audio
visual lights that bother them the fact
that they may need to get up every five
or ten you know not five or ten minutes
but 15 20 30 minutes maybe and and just
take a five minute mental health break
the point is is making a safe space for
the folks that work for you
understanding what they need
to work best asking them what what can
you you know what can I do for you to
help you you know and and giving them
the ability to ask for a mental health
day off with no questions asked uh
that's been very important for me
uh I work for gigamon now and I've been
there for about five months
and um fortunately uh being on the
customer success side uh they're already
tuned to
they're they're people people but uh my
manager in my whole team I mean the
first thing I told everybody when I was
hiring when I was going through the
hiring process was that I have ADHD
anxiety and depression and I'm an
alcoholic is that an issue and none of
it wasn't an issue for any of them and
if it was I wouldn't want to work for
them
and
so the the environment is such that I
can just tell my boss I can just wake up
in the morning and say I just I can't do
today
and he knows exactly what I mean and
he's like anything I can do for you let
me know we'll see you tomorrow
and that is so refreshing and so freeing
because tomorrow I'm going to be so much
better than had I worked today
and had to suffer through it and then
work tomorrow and have to continue to
suffer through whatever it was I was
dealing with at the time
so so this is you know there's so many
facets to this
but it comes down to basically just
knowing that if if you think that
there's something going on with your up
in here
to go and find out that's that's an
important thing
just finding out doesn't obligate you to
anything you don't want medication
there's other ways to work around it
you know and
if you're self-medicating
ask yourself why am I doing this to
myself you know you might not even
realize that you're self-medicating I
did I didn't realize I was
self-medicating when I was drinking
um or when I was trying to destroy my
marriage or when I was trying to do any
other things that I've done that were
stupid in my first 48 years of my life
but ask yourself why why am I
self-medicating and try to find out you
know what the underlying reason might be
and then the the third part of this is
that's probably even more important is
just having
you know being being a supervisor and
being aware of the mental health state
of your people
learning more about what neurodiversity
is uh about the how it looks how it
plays out you know how how folks
present the different things that could
point to them being part of the
neurodiverse community
and uh
you know being open enough to talk to
them to let them know it's a safe space
for them to open
up about what they're dealing with
so
um before I finish and we get to some
questions um
in in Alcoholics Anonymous uh as we go
through and for for subsequent months to
begin with in the years of sobriety uh
they give us a coins uh to mark for for
ourselves personally um so this is my
four-year coin and I carry this with me
just just to remind myself you know why
you know it's a physical reminder for
what I'm why I'm staying sober
you know we went to Defcon and black hat
as a company to work uh black hat and
and I was fine
uh until about the
last day before death Defcon was over
and I was starting to to feel that all
the alcohol that had been around me for
that whole week it was starting to get
to me and one of my co-workers
who knows I'm alcoholic ask me you know
what's wrong and I told him I I really
want to drink right now
and um they're like is there anything I
can do to help you and I'm like
no and just the act of telling somebody
that I wanted that drink was enough to
curb that desire for that drink
and so that's that's what this coin does
when there's no one around to talk to
and for newcomers to Alcoholics
Anonymous uh they have a 24-hour coin
that they that they uh offer to the new
folks
after they've you know if once they've
been sober for 24 hours they could pick
this up
as they as they try to get to their
their month coin and two month coin and
three month coin and um
this is uh
I've got a number of these and these can
these can uh be used for anything apart
anything apart from alcohol that you're
just trying to get through 24 hours
you're just trying to get to that next
day
it's got the Serenity Prayer on the back
and I've just I've got a number of these
if anybody wants one just to help you
get through something that where you
just need to get to that next day
um we we have this this trick in AAA
where we
if you want a drink please tell yourself
that you'll have a drink tomorrow
and then tomorrow you tell yourself you
have a drink tomorrow
and tomorrow never comes for that drink
and you just end up not having that
drink and it's the same thing you know
you just make it to tomorrow then
you know I can make it to the next day
so that's that's my talk I've got like
10 minutes left
if anybody has any questions
um what I've done on some previous talks
is if there are questions
other folks that have information that
can contribute to the to the answer to
that question uh please chime in because
that's been very helpful for me too I've
learned something from every talk I've
given
but I thank you for coming to my talk
and
if there's any questions I'll take no
and yep
sure
um that probably that uh they're going
to be hard to deal with as a supervisor
and um that they're not going to be as
productive a member of the team
and I mean I would think that that would
for me that's that's the top ones and
that's why a lot of people don't like to
bring that up because they they know
that that that's
how people think
you know the converse of that is
understanding
them and working to their strengths uh
as much as possible
well yeah no I think that that's a
because neurotypical folk don't
generally take the time to understand
neurodiversity and so for them it's just
you know it's the stereotypical autistic
kid on the movies that they see you know
who can play piano like nobody else but
who can't function otherwise
um and it's that's why they call it the
autism spectrum because it's it's it's
and it used to be a a a a straight line
now it's a circle because
uh there's so many different components
within autism that different autistics
have different strengths and weaknesses
in uh that they've they've gotten rid of
the whole like straight line Spectrum
it's it's a circle now and you fall
somewhere you know within autism and um
yeah that's that's what I say
s
mentioned earlier yes
yep
there's what would you say
so there's a difference between yes
oh sure so the question was
um uh basically for folks who who might
suspect that they're ADHD in this case
let's just use that as an example uh but
because of of other reasons inside their
life they don't want to get that
diagnosis or beyond that medication uh
whether it's uh because they can't work
certain equipment they can't get a pilot
license for example if you're on certain
medication I guess
um so to that I would say that getting a
diagnosis is different than being on
medication
getting the diagnosis is the important
piece because then you know how to work
with a therapist
then you know how to
do more research on your own to
understand what that particular
neurodivergent condition means for you
and there are also non-medicinal things
that you can do uh you know exercise
eating healthily
you know uh just uh changing routines
there are a lot of things that don't
involve medication the one thing about
medication for ADHD is that it increases
your your executive function abilities
but if if you know
what's going on with you and you can
learn to compensate for that through
other means besides medication
um I think getting the diagnosis first
is the important thing and then you can
go from there
so
yes
thank you
yep
oh
my God
sure
so a lot of uh the autistic folks that
I've come across
are are self-diagnosed autists
they've done the exact same thing you've
done they they they they they they've
they've read they've researched they
they know based off of everything in
their lives they know they're autistic
and so they claim that they're autistic
and
probably three half to three quarters of
the autistic Community are
self-diagnosed autistic
the important the most important thing
is is is understanding
Where You Are
and so um if you go to you know and if
you seek a therapist to help because
skills skills is a big part of it skills
and pills if you don't want to deal you
know and there's no pills that you can
take for autism it's skills it's
learning how to live with with what
you've been dealt
and so but the most important thing is
finding somebody who specifically says I
work with folks with autism or ADHD
because they're the ones that are going
to understand you
uh but that's that's that's where I'd go
with that just but you know knowing
yourself
you know I've taken those tests too and
and I think I might be slightly autistic
as well
it doesn't really matter if you but what
matters is if you know that there are
certain things that you do in your life
and you can catch yourself doing those
and you can adjust accordingly or you
can just decide you don't care and just
be yourself and let everybody deal with
you so
yeah yeah
sure
yes
that's true yeah no it is very undiable
undiagnosed in women because of the the
stereotypes that are given to women and
the patriarchal society that we live in
um yes sir that is
um
that's true and I've only got like two
minutes left but this is my second slide
um I just remember to bring it up just a
couple resources uh
neurodiversityhub.org is really good
um uh in Psychology today they're find a
therapist
you can you can get bios on all the
therapists and their specialties
and they've been vetted by Psychology
today so that's just a great place to
find therapists and on Twitter uh
specifically for neurodiversity but also
it extends out to
uh or excuse me for ADHD uh these four
folks here
um in this hashtag neurodiverse Squad
and there's a community as well
they put out some really good content
that just really give you good
understanding as to what they deal with
so
oh wow
no
um
no I I've uh I've forgotten to take my
medicine and I know how it feels uh so I
prefer not to go off of it so
if you if you want to go off your meds I
would talk to your doctor and just let
them know you want to taper down or you
want to try you know do something but
just going cold turkey off of a med that
affects your brain isn't a great idea
yes
so so there are there are
there are some doctors if like you're
like your primary care manager who will
if you tell them you know you think
you're ADHD if they've worked with you
for a long time they might start you on
a low very low dose of an ADHD
medication uh the way I did it was I saw
a psychiatrist who sent me to a
psychologist I did the battery of tests
and the psychologist reported back to
the psychiatrist the psychiatrist gives
me my mind so there's different ways to
do it but um yeah
and that's all the time that I have uh
so I thank you all so much for coming to
my talk
yes