hi and welcome to office and talk to me
in this episode we visit the pier Center in
UCLA run by doctor was loggers and which focuses on social skills
and in this episode alex is learning how to approach a circle of people
and she will actually experiment approach real circle of people
so you get to see his progress yep
people with autism generally try to make friends and sometimes they
go about it the wrong way infrequently get frustrated
by their lack of results what are some ways that you think that people on the
autism spectrum
can sort of making friends get into conversations in
really integrate in with the group on its own a simple answer there's lots of
different elements
hey make friends but one way that we
meet new people and make potentially new friends is by
engine conversations and not putting into conversations the reality is a lot
of times as adults we give
on kids and even young adults the
throng advice essentially in the situation so
I one is going to share with you what we call it ecologically valid scale
okay and ecologically valid schools kinda a fancy term for
what people who are socially accepted naturally do
in the social situations and so that's what we want to teach right now
yeah I think that they should do but what actually works so this is what
people do when they're trying to meet new people
bill first sorta listened to our conversation
kind watch it from a distance and try to figure out
what they're talking about right haitian thinking
from scary knowing it from is a new laptop
yes thematic area just got it oh my god I love it
you know I love it what do you think that most teens with autism do when they
enter conversations
I would imagine most teens with autism when the entire conversation will say
something
completely unrelated to the topic that's currently being discussed
and probably is somewhat related to their special-interest exactly you're
absolutely right that's what our research is showing is that they tend to
be rather interesting there were conversations kinda by and
and are off topic in the talking about something that's not related to what the
people are are talking about I think they're gonna be received when they do
that
I usually I would think that kids who
enter into a conversation saying something unrelated
would not be received in a good way usually
with other kids either being puzzled
there you know i'd yeah depending on how many times they've done in
so we don't want to do that and 71 use these ecologically valid skills we first
listen to the conversation
we figure out what they're talking about once we identify the topic we also want
to make sure that we know something
about the topic before rejoining his conversation why would that be important
it would be important because if they're having a discussion you don't want to
get into a situation where you don't even know what they're talking about in
the act they
get confused why even in the conversation exactly important thing the
wire listening to this conversation
a sensual your eavesdropping right but do you wanna look like yuri is dropping
no you home wanna come off in a way that makes it seem like you've been
eavesdropping seen situations
where kids do get called out for eavesdropping
exactly what do you think they were doing with their eye contact when I got
called out for eavesdropping
soon they were looking at the people hmm there probably staring at again right
that's what gives us a way
yet when were you stopping so instead of doing that we're just gonna make kinda
casual
periodic I contact we're gonna look over occasionally
to search show interest but we're not gonna stare at them
so a lot of people use a prop like to use me with your iPhone or Blackberry or
something like that ur
can be looking through you know book for whatever's around before you joining
you actually gonna wait for something what do you think that you're waiting
for
I would think that you would wait for a pause in the conversation
yeah exactly so why would you not want to just barge and when they're in the
middle talking
people don't like to get interrupted mmm-hmm exactly when I get
bad impression that the person I was talking right so we wanna wait for just
a little brief pause in the conversation
before we actually join but when the things I actually have to remind the
teens and young adults I work with
is that there's never a perfect pas because a lot of people be will be
waiting for ever
you know waiting for this perfect pas but what you do is you actually am
as you're waiting for that POS when you and kinda find the pause
you can move a little bit closer to probably at least look over at %um
notice you
and then that's your kind that's your moment to join the conversation now when
we join the conversation
where were moved a little bit closer this hopefully a little paws
what do you think we're gonna wanna say how do we join the conversation
well usually I would think that you would want us to talk about whatever
their
talking about and have something insightful that actually adds value to
their conversation exact you could
give an opinion but must your opinion is something that
is worthwhile for them to listen to they're not really gonna care that much
exactly so I mean doesn't have to be a brilliant comment a great app it does
have to be on topic you're right about that so you're gonna
either make a comment or ask a question that's on topic
that the new Mac Book Air yeah I just got it ok cool
and so what do we do from there is you actually need to start assessing
whether or not you're accepted into the conversation right those are the steps
for join the conversation you're watching and listening from a distance
he started making Puranik I contact you wait for a little pies and you join
I'm making a comment in are asking questions on topic great
yeah first time well yeah definitely retail need to know
I have the just got the new life month outlining her so grey
it is I really like it so is hey do you know if you've been accepted into the
group
we know from the research that about half the time that we try to join the
conversation
were not necessarily gonna be accepted and it's not a big deal
actually happens to everyone but we need to be paying attention whether or not
we're
were accepted so there's very specific ways that we can tell
on for example when you join the conversation
home what are people doing this giving you the sense that their
interested in you perhaps their talking to you
looking at you looking in the i mean in towards you when you're talking
winning their bodies towards you that's exactly right the reverse is true that
when they're not
interest in talking to us so if they're not interested
there not engaging in conversation they're not looking at you or if they
are looking at you they're making a face or something like that or
needed this interesting thing with their body where they kinda turn away from you
and the interesting thing about the body language
is that if you don't even notice that when people talk in
imus in conversations they like with group ray talk in circles
yeah never seen everyone standing in a circle usually are sitting around in a
circle
yeah they kinda there are facing each other and maybe an incredible circle
what do you think they do with that circle when they want to talk to you
what do they do it they make it wider yanni open the circle
essentially what did they do with the circle in a don't want to talk to you
may be there the people closest to you move
assertive all away from you yeah they close the circle
essentially they can give you that called soldier rain so those are some
very concrete behavioral signs
that we can use to assess whether or not we accepted into the conversation there
looking at a city talking to Essen
are they facing us why is it important to know if you're accepted in a
well because do you wanna force someone to talk to you let's imagine what we
join the conversation
they're not really interested in talking to us we know that happens about half
the time
do we want to continue to force them to try to you know talk to us
guess not probably not what do you think they might think us if we continue to
try to
to engage them when they've shown us that they're not interested
I think they might spine as annoying yeah they might find us in doing so in
those cases we have to exit these conversations
what's the best way to exit just generally just walk away
that's a really good question so on the the typical devices that you just walk
away
but the problem with just walking away is that a lotta
on the kids that we work with they look like they're storming of its sorta van
very obvious you can see that right so we actually teach them to slow it down a
bit
and they should begin by serve looking away
now what is it tell the people you're trying to talk to you when you start to
look away from them
that you're not as interested in the conversation that's right to you kinda
disengagement conversation your attention is focused elsewhere
then while you're kinda looking where you're gonna turn your body away
in that same direction that you're looking what does that tell them that
you're about to go
tells 'em that you're about to leave you're about to walk away and that's the
third step so we start by
looking awake when turning away and casually walking it slows down the
process
and if we've done this right the people that we've been trying to engage in a
min notice
when we walk off and there is some merit typical
kaysee you know hang out with that were you really got social skills
will go into a conversation they won't even move their body into the
conversation the lake
look over their children's and start talking in the other group and it seems
like there's a way less
rejection from that is that wrong that's absolutely strategy can you can use
we actually teach a lot of our kids in our program the idea of what we call
gaze aversion
we are necessary do that with our bodies but that's what you're talking about
which is a very protective way entire conversation
before you really know if you've been accepted right right because you're not
100 percent invested yet
week identified what the steps i right on the first effort for entering a
conversation is that you're gonna have listened to the conversation
and watch it and then you're waiting for something what are you waiting for
waiting for paws very good and then you're gonna join by doing what
assertive going towards the group moving
in mussolini yeah and how you actually
join the conversation once you're accepted as per the circle
you say something that's related to the topic
you're gonna wanna make a comment or ask a question on topic and then you're
gonna be assessing
right you're not you're accepted in the congress he's make the comment before
you
to sturman other night except yeah you always want to make the comet first
any
yeah
and