[MUSIC PLAYING]
MATT DUFFER: So once you get to the stage in the process
where you have your script, which is huge--
you've overcome this massive hurdle.
You've done all this work.
But the question is, now, who's gonna read it?
How do you get anyone to read it?
This is probably the question we get asked the most, which is,
what now?
What do I do now?
And, you know, as we've kind of talked about,
previously, we had no connections, no Hollywood
connections.
Our dad was not in the business, none of that.
So if you have that, great.
Good for you.
You're in the door already.
You have someone who you can give the script to.
But most of us-- you know, most of you
probably don't have Hollywood connections
and it is difficult. So it's like, what do you do?
You have the script, this great script that works.
Now, what?
All right.
So you have-- like Matt says, you have this amazing script.
So the trick is now to get it read.
So I think a lot of times people go,
oh, well, I'm gonna just send this to Netflix
or I'm gonna send to Amazon or I'm going to send it to HBO.
And, unfortunately, it's not that simple.
If-- if you do end up somehow getting your script to Netflix
or Amazon or HBO or Apple--
Meaning, like, just-- if you just send it to them
in the mail.
If you send it in the mail, you--
you throw it over the fence, whatever you do or you find
someone's email, however you do it, don't do that,
because they're just gonna throw it out.
So it's really just a waste of your time.
So what we're gonna talk about now is,
how do you get it to Netflix or HBO or Amazon?
And the answer to that is you're gonna
need an agent or a manager.
Why do you need an agent or manager?
Basically they're your conduit into the whole, like, Hollywood
system.
Right?
So they are able to get your script out to producers.
And producers will be able to get
your script to studios and networks,
such as, like, Netflix, right?
For example.
Without an agent or a manager, no one's
gonna take you seriously.
Unless you're pretty established,
you can't, you know, represent yourself.
OK?
You're gonna need to find one of these agents or managers.
Sometimes people ask, you know, I'm still a little confused
about it, the difference between an agent or a manager.
Managers tend to represent fewer people.
So it's a little bit more personal.
You can kind of call them up, you know, on a Saturday
at 3:00 PM.
I mean, I can do that with my agent now,
which is a little weird.
And agents tend to represent a lot more people.
But they work at a really large company, such as CAA, where,
you know-- and they have--
the good-- the advantage of working with an agent or big--
at a bigger agency is that they have
a lot of other connections within that agency, right?
Like big name actors, big name directors
who they could help-- they could attach your script to.
And that could help sell it.
So it doesn't really matter at this-- at this point.
You just need someone to represent you.
Someone-- the truth is it's actually a relatively small
town.
Everyone knows everybody, generally.
So the key is just gonna be to find someone
that responds to your script and that
can get it in the hands of the right people.
And again, all of these people know the right people.
So you just gotta get it in their hands
and they gotta like your script, which seems simple, right?
So OK.
I can't send my script to Amazon or Netflix or Apple.
So I'm just gonna send it to some management companies
or agencies.
Unfortunately, it's also not that simple.
They're also gonna most likely throw your script in the trash
and not even look at it.
And this sort of becomes a bit of a chicken and the egg
situation.
There's a bit of a conundrum here of like--
what you're gonna ask, which is a completely valid question,
which is, well, if I need an agent to sell my script,
but my agent-- an agent won't read my script,
how do I get an agent?
And that is the most complicated part of this entire process.
And I wish there was a better system in order for this
to work.
But we're gonna at least tell you how we managed to do it.
And-- and, ultimately, you know,
I was kinda saying earlier, it's very-- you know, it's hard--
it's especially hard if you don't have connections,
because the truth is you need-- you--
you need connections, right?
So if you have connections, if you're coming out here
and people already have connections,
they have an advantage over you in terms of-- now, listen,
if their script stinks, their script stinks.
It's not gonna help them.
But so, hopefully, your advantage
is you have a really good script.
That's the best thing that you can
have going for you is a really good script, so that when you
do find-- make that connection, you hand it to them,
the script is gonna work for them.
What do you do if you don't have connections?
So we didn't have connections.
We were at-- we-- we were going to film school
out here at Chapman University in Orange County.
We were close-ish to LA.
We knew we needed to make connections.
We needed to meet people who were making stuff
within the industry.
And so we just, every summer, and actually
even throughout the year, we interned.
There's two of us.
Again, this is the advantage of having two people.
But you can do it yourself, obviously.
Which is-- we-- we divided and conquered.
We're like, oh, we should-- it's two of us.
We should take advantage of the fact that we're twins and just,
like, spread out all over town.
We did every internship we could-- could find
and we met as many people as we could.
We did try to put in-- you know, do a lot of good work there.
I mean, it's not the most fun thing in the world,
these internships.
In our case, it was work to help get coll-- college credit.
And so I guess what you might question--
you might ask then is, OK, so I got one of these--
I-- I found an internship.
And so now, what do I do?
I just hand this brilliant script that I've written--
I hand it to someone in the company
and they're gonna read it an they're gonna get me an agent.
It's also not that simple.
What you really need to do, like Matt's saying is,
you just gotta--
you gotta put in the work.
We-- we made copies of scripts.
We fetched coffees.
I delivered presents to people.
I did Christmas stuff.
I-- it's-- and some of the time, I was given a fun task.
Like I'd be like, here, read this script
and let me know what you think.
And you do.
And you slowly start to earn people's trust.
I was working at a company called Appian Way.
And my boss there--
one of my bosses there was Franklin Leonard.
You might know now, if-- if you're into screenwriting,
he runs something called the Blacklist.
But back then, it was-- and it's still, part of it
is, today is it just a list of people's favorite scripts
they read this year within Hollywood.
So the point is Franklin was a great boss.
And you know, I did work with him.
And you start to earn trust.
And I remember, I told him about this show called "The Wire."
And I got him hooked on it.
And he became obsessed.
And just little things like that just--
again, just like with your scripts, baby steps.
You start to earn people's--
You didn't-- you didn't hand Franklin the script the day you
walked in there.
No.
Like, he'll never look at you again, probably.
I think this was probably nine--
at least after 9, 10 months--
Right.
--of working there.
And I go, hey, here's a script.
If you happen to have time, you know,
I'd love your thoughts on it.
Franklin read the script.
And again, we wrote this script in college.
It's a pretty messy script.
It has a lot of issues.
It has a pretty strong first 5 to 10 pages.
Whatever it was that convinced Franklin,
he thought that there was a promise in this.
And he sent it to a couple of agents.
They also thought there was promise in it.
We took those meetings.
And we had in--
through that, we were able to get agents.
So the point is, you have to find your Franklin.
It may not be through internships.
It may be-- there may be through some other way.
But the key is you need someone to hand your script to an agent
and say, hey, this is good.
If you just cold email, cold call, it's unlikely.
There are other avenues.
Franklin's Blacklist is one.
There's--
There's competitions.
There's competition.
Some of those are valid.
Some of those are just trying to steal your money.
So you have to be careful.
But generally, there are ways to get your script out.
The most helpful thing and the fastest way, in our opinion,
is to come out here and meet people.
That may not be possible for you, in which case
it is gonna have to be an online thing and it's gonna help.
If your script is really good, hopefully, it'll find its way.
But if there's any way that you can meet people out here,
that is probably the fastest and cleanest way.
It was within-- it's still gonna take time.
It was a couple of years of interning and working
before we were able to even get our script
in the hand of someone who knew an agent, much less meet
an agent.
So it was just-- it is a process and it is gonna take some time.
So if you can get out here, that would be great.
And it can be-- it can be discouraging and just--
just as you're writing a script, it can be frustrating.
So, like, just to show the other side of it.
And I think I was just as good of an intern,
if not a better intern than my brother.
Right?
OK?
So-- and I put in about a year and a half
at this company that shall not be named.
Right?
And I-- and, you know, I think I did solid-- good, solid work.
And I hand the same exact script over to them saying, will
you read it?
Of course.
Nothing happened.
OK?
Like, so-- it didn't go anywhere.
They didn't send it to an agent or a manager.
Right?
They didn't help.
So this is why don't bank on one single person or one
single company.
Spread out.
If it's just you, just-- then-- then, you know,
you need to spread out and go to a bunch
of different internships.
Don't bank on any one person or any one company.
And-- and just try to meet as many people as you can.
Or become an assistant.
That's another way.
There are a lot of avenues.
But the most important one is trying
to meet people that have connections
within the industry.
So you make connections.
Someone knows an agent or a manager.
They get your script to them.
They like it.
They go, hey, we want to represent you.
So then, what happens?
And, you know, at that point, we're like,
you know, we made it.
We did it.
We did it, mom and dad.
Like we got an agent in Hollywood.
I mean, we thought we were pretty cool.
I mean, being from North Carolina,
all we knew about agents or managers at the time
was from the HBO show "Entourage."
That's literally all we knew.
But it's, unfortunately, not that simple.
So we had this script-- this script called "Origin,"
the-- the--
I'm infected.
--infected, you know, gonna die in two hours script,
which was kind of, in honesty, a little bit of a mess, right?
Ross said good 5, 10-- first 5, 10 pages, which is cool.
The rest of it kinda falls apart.
We weren't outlining.
OK?
So that's why it's a mess, by the way.
So why-- this is why you need to outline.
So what happens next?
The agents then send it out to producers
who they think would be a good fit for the project.
And then, they'll see which producers are interested.
Then, we met with those producers who were interested.
And then, you just hear them out and you
see which ones seem to get you and get the project
and seem genuinely passionate about them.
Pick a producer.
That's a key step is picking your producer.
And then, that producer, along with your agent,
will then send it out-- when they feel the time is right,
they'll send it out to studios.
And that was a film.
So that went out to all the film studios.
In this case, you know--
Warner Brothers, Paramount--
Yeah.
That's what they--
Universal.
So it went out to all these companies.
And then, they read it.
And we're like, here we go.
And then, we just-- then, we're just waiting for the big
paycheck and we're waiting for someone to buy it.
And then, that did not happen.
Which happens all the time, by the way.
So scripts will go out wide-- they call it going out wide.
You go out with the script.
And for whatever reason, no one's gonna option it
and no one's gonna buy it.
I mean, I think it did actually come sort of close.
It was like almost there, not quite.
And I really do think if we had outlined it, that would've sold
and-- and our, you know, career trajectory
would've been really different.
But it didn't.
But it didn't end up selling.
But that's OK, because what the key
was we started knowing nobody.
We came out here.
We-- in turn, we met some people, like Franklin.
But, again, our-- our knowledge of people in Hollywood
was pretty small.
We then got our agent.
So we met some agents.
And then, once it went out, suddenly,
even though the script didn't sell,
we were taking all these meetings.
We felt like we were in "Entourage."
We're meeting these-- some big-time producers.
Were meeting over with studios.
And it felt like, OK.
Suddenly, we're-- the door has opened and we're into this
world.
We haven't made a penny yet, but at least we're
starting to make connections.
And, again, once you know people and you know the right people,
the key is just gonna be to write a script that works.
And unfortunately, "Origin," didn't fully work,
which is why it didn't sell.
So I'm-- you know, it is what it is.
But it got us in the door.
And that's the key.
And I think with your first script--
listen, I hope it sells.
I hope it goes out and sells in a bidding war.
But if not, if you can get it to open that door for you
and get into the world, that is a huge first step.
And it was a huge step for us, in terms
of getting to where we are now.
Once you have that agent, they're gonna send--
the first thing they're gonna do is they're gonna send it out
to producers.
And they're gonna pick the producers they think
are a good fit for your project, who they think might
be interested in your project.
Some of the producers are just gonna pass on your project.
You're gonna get rejected lots of times.
This is not something you should be upset about.
These producers may just be busy.
They may not have even read it, they're just not interested,
whatever.
What you want to be interested in is--
are the producers who liked your project, who want to meet you,
who want to produce unit movie or your--
or your television show, right?
So I think then what you do is you go and you meet--
or nowadays, maybe you Zoom, with all the producers
who liked your project.
And then, you hear them out.
And they're gonna kind of actually--
this is kind of a cool stage, in where they're sort
of pitching themselves to you.
It's not-- it's, like, kind of a little bit of a low stress
thing for you.
You already know that they're interested in your project.
And they're gonna talk about their visions
for, not just your project, but for where it could end up.
And they're gonna try to get you all excited.
So how do you pick a good producer?
I think this is one of those things where you really just
have to trust your gut and you have to go with--
I wouldn't necessarily go with what seems
on paper like the right idea.
I think, you know, Ross and I had
made that mistake in the past.
I think the most important thing to do
is just who seems to understand your material, who
seems to understand you, who seems actually,
genuinely the most passionate about it.
Like, you want someone who's, like, really, really excited
about it and who gets it.
I mean, we met with a lot-- you know, this is--
talking about "Stranger Things" now.
But when we first sent that script out
and we had a meeting with a handful of producers,
there were some who clearly-- you know, right away, we're
like, well, this is not a good fit.
Because they were going, listen, I really like this script.
It's amazing.
You know, I love it so much.
Can we remove the kids?
Like, let's just make it-- because
and, again, the producer's goal is to sell the material.
They see kids and it's not a kids show, immediately,
that's a red flag for them.
They haven't seen a script like that sell, I don't know,
for a really long time.
So they're like, this is gonna be very difficult to sell.
We knew immediately, anyone's telling
us to remove the kids from the show is wrong for the project.
We actually even had the opposite.
We had people go, let's just make it a kid show,
remove the adult characters.
We're like, well, that's also wrong.
Right?
That's-- that's not right.
That means you don't get-- they don't get what we're
trying to do for the show.
But eventually, you'll meet the producer who,
they say all the right things, they know the same references,
they love the same movies you do,
they know exactly what you want to do.
Right?
Oh, there's another example.
Right?
We had a producer we were with.
And they said, when you're pitching this,
I love the script-- they didn't want us to change
the kids or any of that.
But they said, when you're going out
and you're pitching this to these television studios,
they don't understand movies or no movies.
So you can't reference movies when you're pitching your show.
And I was like, I don't--
I literally-- I was like, I don't
know how to pitch "Stranger Things"
and not be able to reference "ET."
And I was like, do-- do television studio executives--
they haven't seen "ET?"
Like it just didn't make any sense to me.
So that was--
A red flag.
--a red flag.
And we ended up walking away from that producer.
So at the end of the day, you know, trust your gut.
Go with who gets you and who gets your material.
That's how you know-- and who's gonna support your vision
and support you specifically.
And that's how you make your decision.
So you've settled on a producer.
So what's gonna happen now is the producer's gonna go,
well, I think the best course of selling
it is to go to these companies or these studios.
Now, we're starting to get closer
to that original idea, which is like, how do I get to Netflix
or Amazon or whatever?
Well, now, that's where we're headed.
So they might say, I think this is a great fit for Netflix
and Amazon or whoever.
And so-- but the trick is, with those companies,
you're not gonna just send your script
and they're gonna just buy it and that's it.
What you're gonna need to do when you're devel-- doing
the TV shows, you're gonna need to develop a pitch,
so you can give them a sense of not just the pilot,
but you're trying to give them a sense of what the entire season
of that show is like.
So a pitch is an elaboration, essentially, on--
on the pilot.
So what these studio executives are gonna get,
they're gonna have read your script.
So if they like your script and you're
invited to go meet with them, that's a really good sign.
That means they liked your script, most likely.
Not always the case, actually.
But usually-- usually, it means that they liked your script.
And at that point, basically, you want to--
and how long is it pitch usually?
I mean, I guess--
Ours was, like, 15 minutes maybe.
15, 20 minutes.
Right?
You don't wanna be too long.
You don't wanna feel like, you know--
you don't wanna be long-winded, looking
at their clock-- you know, looking at their watch,
whatever.
That's a bad sign, if they're looking at their watches.
So you wanna be brief, to the point,
and all you're doing with the pitch is telling them,
essentially, how awesome your show is
and how cool it's gonna be and what's cool about it.
And you're gonna tell them all the things that weren't--
aren't maybe evident in-- in the pilot.
Yes.
And I think, probably, the best way to explain, you know,
exactly what a pitch is to show you what the pitch was
for-- for "Montauk" or "Stranger Things."
I, mean we wrote out the whole thing and memorized it.
You definitely don't wanna go into a pitch
and read off a sheet of paper, like that.
I mean, that's one way to not sell a show.
I think this is an area where a lot of writers
get really nervous, because we're not--
we're not actors, right?
It's not-- and it's kind of annoying
that, actually, you even have to do this,
you have to go, like, sell yourself.
Because writers tend to, like, hide from other people.
I'm not-- and, you know-- you don't-- you're not--
you're not good at boasting.
But that's why the best thing to do
is do what you do best, which is write.
Write your pitch down.
You're not winging this.
You don't wing it.
Right?
You probably don't have that-- if you're like us,
you don't have that skill set, right?
To just sort of be improvising it on the day,
you're gonna get nervous or whatever.
The best thing to do, write out your pitch,
memorize it, and just-- and just spit it out on the day
and try to make it feel like you're coming up with it
on the spot, but you won't be.
What happens is-- so you'll go into a room.
And, you know, you'll pitch your heart out.
And then, they go "Thank you."
And you leave.
And then, you just wait for a phone call from your agent.
They're not gonna follow up with you,
they're gonna follow up with your agent.
So if it's bad news, you don't have--
you hear-- you're kind of hearing it secondhand.
If it's good news, you're hearing it second hand.
And, yeah, good news, you're hearing-- right.
Whatever.
You're ne-- you're never gonna hear directly from them.
That's what the agent or your manager
is for, to communicate directly with the studio or the network.
So you just wait.
Sometimes you gotta wait-- some day-- sometimes
you'll hear that day.
Sometimes you'll-- you'll hear stories about people being--
you know, they're buying it in the room.
I don't know.
That never happened to me.
I guess that does happen to some people.
Or it'll be the next day, sometimes
it'll be three days, whatever.
But I wouldn't panic.
We had no idea when we were walking out
that they would buy it or not.
We-- they just-- it was just total poker face.
We had no sense of how much they liked it or not.
And we were all-- we were just-- we were terrified.
So you really are just waiting for your agent to call you.
And then, hopefully your agent is nicer than ours,
because he called us and said, bad news.
They didn't like it.
And then, he said, I'm kidding.
They're buying this story.
And that was really mean.
It gave us a heart attack.
Yeah.