1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:03,430 [MUSIC PLAYING] 2 00:00:05,687 --> 00:00:08,017 MATT DUFFER: So once you get to the stage in the process 3 00:00:08,020 --> 00:00:10,000 where you have your script, which is huge-- 4 00:00:10,000 --> 00:00:11,500 you've overcome this massive hurdle. 5 00:00:11,500 --> 00:00:12,860 You've done all this work. 6 00:00:12,860 --> 00:00:15,380 But the question is, now, who's gonna read it? 7 00:00:15,380 --> 00:00:16,770 How do you get anyone to read it? 8 00:00:16,770 --> 00:00:19,350 This is probably the question we get asked the most, which is, 9 00:00:19,353 --> 00:00:19,933 what now? 10 00:00:19,930 --> 00:00:20,840 What do I do now? 11 00:00:20,840 --> 00:00:22,720 And, you know, as we've kind of talked about, 12 00:00:22,715 --> 00:00:26,715 previously, we had no connections, no Hollywood 13 00:00:26,710 --> 00:00:27,340 connections. 14 00:00:27,340 --> 00:00:29,390 Our dad was not in the business, none of that. 15 00:00:29,390 --> 00:00:32,110 So if you have that, great. 16 00:00:32,110 --> 00:00:32,950 Good for you. 17 00:00:32,950 --> 00:00:34,180 You're in the door already. 18 00:00:34,180 --> 00:00:35,560 You have someone who you can give the script to. 19 00:00:35,560 --> 00:00:37,390 But most of us-- you know, most of you 20 00:00:37,390 --> 00:00:39,540 probably don't have Hollywood connections 21 00:00:39,537 --> 00:00:41,617 and it is difficult. So it's like, what do you do? 22 00:00:41,620 --> 00:00:43,960 You have the script, this great script that works. 23 00:00:43,960 --> 00:00:44,830 Now, what? 24 00:00:51,390 --> 00:00:51,930 All right. 25 00:00:51,930 --> 00:00:57,300 So you have-- like Matt says, you have this amazing script. 26 00:00:57,300 --> 00:00:59,400 So the trick is now to get it read. 27 00:00:59,400 --> 00:01:01,120 So I think a lot of times people go, 28 00:01:01,120 --> 00:01:04,260 oh, well, I'm gonna just send this to Netflix 29 00:01:04,260 --> 00:01:07,020 or I'm gonna send to Amazon or I'm going to send it to HBO. 30 00:01:07,020 --> 00:01:10,540 And, unfortunately, it's not that simple. 31 00:01:10,540 --> 00:01:14,190 If-- if you do end up somehow getting your script to Netflix 32 00:01:14,190 --> 00:01:15,820 or Amazon or HBO or Apple-- 33 00:01:15,815 --> 00:01:17,945 Meaning, like, just-- if you just send it to them 34 00:01:17,940 --> 00:01:18,330 in the mail. 35 00:01:18,330 --> 00:01:19,790 If you send it in the mail, you-- 36 00:01:19,788 --> 00:01:22,138 you throw it over the fence, whatever you do or you find 37 00:01:22,140 --> 00:01:25,860 someone's email, however you do it, don't do that, 38 00:01:25,860 --> 00:01:27,700 because they're just gonna throw it out. 39 00:01:27,700 --> 00:01:31,030 So it's really just a waste of your time. 40 00:01:31,030 --> 00:01:33,070 So what we're gonna talk about now is, 41 00:01:33,070 --> 00:01:37,260 how do you get it to Netflix or HBO or Amazon? 42 00:01:37,260 --> 00:01:39,510 And the answer to that is you're gonna 43 00:01:39,510 --> 00:01:41,520 need an agent or a manager. 44 00:01:41,520 --> 00:01:43,120 Why do you need an agent or manager? 45 00:01:43,120 --> 00:01:47,530 Basically they're your conduit into the whole, like, Hollywood 46 00:01:47,530 --> 00:01:48,030 system. 47 00:01:48,030 --> 00:01:48,530 Right? 48 00:01:48,530 --> 00:01:53,040 So they are able to get your script out to producers. 49 00:01:53,040 --> 00:01:54,480 And producers will be able to get 50 00:01:54,480 --> 00:01:57,330 your script to studios and networks, 51 00:01:57,330 --> 00:02:00,000 such as, like, Netflix, right? 52 00:02:00,000 --> 00:02:00,780 For example. 53 00:02:00,780 --> 00:02:02,860 Without an agent or a manager, no one's 54 00:02:02,858 --> 00:02:03,898 gonna take you seriously. 55 00:02:03,900 --> 00:02:05,340 Unless you're pretty established, 56 00:02:05,340 --> 00:02:07,450 you can't, you know, represent yourself. 57 00:02:07,450 --> 00:02:07,950 OK? 58 00:02:07,950 --> 00:02:10,440 You're gonna need to find one of these agents or managers. 59 00:02:10,440 --> 00:02:12,900 Sometimes people ask, you know, I'm still a little confused 60 00:02:12,898 --> 00:02:15,328 about it, the difference between an agent or a manager. 61 00:02:15,330 --> 00:02:18,660 Managers tend to represent fewer people. 62 00:02:18,660 --> 00:02:20,910 So it's a little bit more personal. 63 00:02:20,910 --> 00:02:23,430 You can kind of call them up, you know, on a Saturday 64 00:02:23,430 --> 00:02:24,360 at 3:00 PM. 65 00:02:24,360 --> 00:02:26,070 I mean, I can do that with my agent now, 66 00:02:26,070 --> 00:02:27,070 which is a little weird. 67 00:02:27,070 --> 00:02:29,400 And agents tend to represent a lot more people. 68 00:02:29,400 --> 00:02:33,780 But they work at a really large company, such as CAA, where, 69 00:02:33,780 --> 00:02:35,080 you know-- and they have-- 70 00:02:35,075 --> 00:02:38,255 the good-- the advantage of working with an agent or big-- 71 00:02:38,250 --> 00:02:40,350 at a bigger agency is that they have 72 00:02:40,350 --> 00:02:43,410 a lot of other connections within that agency, right? 73 00:02:43,410 --> 00:02:45,540 Like big name actors, big name directors 74 00:02:45,540 --> 00:02:48,120 who they could help-- they could attach your script to. 75 00:02:48,120 --> 00:02:49,600 And that could help sell it. 76 00:02:49,600 --> 00:02:53,190 So it doesn't really matter at this-- at this point. 77 00:02:53,190 --> 00:02:54,990 You just need someone to represent you. 78 00:02:54,990 --> 00:02:58,710 Someone-- the truth is it's actually a relatively small 79 00:02:58,710 --> 00:02:59,310 town. 80 00:02:59,310 --> 00:03:01,590 Everyone knows everybody, generally. 81 00:03:01,590 --> 00:03:04,440 So the key is just gonna be to find someone 82 00:03:04,440 --> 00:03:06,900 that responds to your script and that 83 00:03:06,897 --> 00:03:08,727 can get it in the hands of the right people. 84 00:03:08,730 --> 00:03:10,940 And again, all of these people know the right people. 85 00:03:10,938 --> 00:03:12,688 So you just gotta get it in their hands 86 00:03:12,690 --> 00:03:14,940 and they gotta like your script, which seems simple, right? 87 00:03:14,940 --> 00:03:15,480 So OK. 88 00:03:15,480 --> 00:03:20,490 I can't send my script to Amazon or Netflix or Apple. 89 00:03:20,490 --> 00:03:23,940 So I'm just gonna send it to some management companies 90 00:03:23,940 --> 00:03:25,800 or agencies. 91 00:03:25,800 --> 00:03:28,080 Unfortunately, it's also not that simple. 92 00:03:28,080 --> 00:03:32,250 They're also gonna most likely throw your script in the trash 93 00:03:32,250 --> 00:03:33,540 and not even look at it. 94 00:03:33,540 --> 00:03:36,450 And this sort of becomes a bit of a chicken and the egg 95 00:03:36,450 --> 00:03:37,260 situation. 96 00:03:37,260 --> 00:03:39,360 There's a bit of a conundrum here of like-- 97 00:03:39,360 --> 00:03:42,910 what you're gonna ask, which is a completely valid question, 98 00:03:42,910 --> 00:03:46,560 which is, well, if I need an agent to sell my script, 99 00:03:46,560 --> 00:03:48,780 but my agent-- an agent won't read my script, 100 00:03:48,780 --> 00:03:50,320 how do I get an agent? 101 00:03:50,320 --> 00:03:54,900 And that is the most complicated part of this entire process. 102 00:03:54,900 --> 00:03:58,400 And I wish there was a better system in order for this 103 00:03:58,400 --> 00:03:58,900 to work. 104 00:03:58,900 --> 00:04:01,260 But we're gonna at least tell you how we managed to do it. 105 00:04:01,260 --> 00:04:02,680 And-- and, ultimately, you know, 106 00:04:02,677 --> 00:04:05,227 I was kinda saying earlier, it's very-- you know, it's hard-- 107 00:04:05,225 --> 00:04:07,355 it's especially hard if you don't have connections, 108 00:04:07,350 --> 00:04:09,360 because the truth is you need-- you-- 109 00:04:09,360 --> 00:04:10,690 you need connections, right? 110 00:04:10,692 --> 00:04:12,902 So if you have connections, if you're coming out here 111 00:04:12,900 --> 00:04:14,790 and people already have connections, 112 00:04:14,790 --> 00:04:18,120 they have an advantage over you in terms of-- now, listen, 113 00:04:18,117 --> 00:04:19,947 if their script stinks, their script stinks. 114 00:04:19,950 --> 00:04:21,090 It's not gonna help them. 115 00:04:21,089 --> 00:04:22,509 But so, hopefully, your advantage 116 00:04:22,505 --> 00:04:23,885 is you have a really good script. 117 00:04:23,880 --> 00:04:25,300 That's the best thing that you can 118 00:04:25,297 --> 00:04:28,437 have going for you is a really good script, so that when you 119 00:04:28,440 --> 00:04:31,110 do find-- make that connection, you hand it to them, 120 00:04:31,110 --> 00:04:33,420 the script is gonna work for them. 121 00:04:33,415 --> 00:04:35,295 What do you do if you don't have connections? 122 00:04:35,290 --> 00:04:36,540 So we didn't have connections. 123 00:04:36,540 --> 00:04:40,170 We were at-- we-- we were going to film school 124 00:04:40,170 --> 00:04:42,810 out here at Chapman University in Orange County. 125 00:04:42,810 --> 00:04:45,810 We were close-ish to LA. 126 00:04:45,810 --> 00:04:47,790 We knew we needed to make connections. 127 00:04:47,790 --> 00:04:51,090 We needed to meet people who were making stuff 128 00:04:51,090 --> 00:04:52,420 within the industry. 129 00:04:52,420 --> 00:04:55,620 And so we just, every summer, and actually 130 00:04:55,620 --> 00:04:57,480 even throughout the year, we interned. 131 00:04:57,480 --> 00:04:58,230 There's two of us. 132 00:04:58,230 --> 00:05:00,310 Again, this is the advantage of having two people. 133 00:05:00,313 --> 00:05:01,923 But you can do it yourself, obviously. 134 00:05:01,920 --> 00:05:03,760 Which is-- we-- we divided and conquered. 135 00:05:03,758 --> 00:05:05,548 We're like, oh, we should-- it's two of us. 136 00:05:05,550 --> 00:05:08,180 We should take advantage of the fact that we're twins and just, 137 00:05:08,175 --> 00:05:09,515 like, spread out all over town. 138 00:05:09,510 --> 00:05:11,940 We did every internship we could-- could find 139 00:05:11,940 --> 00:05:14,130 and we met as many people as we could. 140 00:05:14,130 --> 00:05:17,650 We did try to put in-- you know, do a lot of good work there. 141 00:05:17,650 --> 00:05:20,550 I mean, it's not the most fun thing in the world, 142 00:05:20,550 --> 00:05:21,630 these internships. 143 00:05:21,630 --> 00:05:26,740 In our case, it was work to help get coll-- college credit. 144 00:05:26,740 --> 00:05:30,060 And so I guess what you might question-- 145 00:05:30,060 --> 00:05:32,520 you might ask then is, OK, so I got one of these-- 146 00:05:32,520 --> 00:05:34,590 I-- I found an internship. 147 00:05:34,590 --> 00:05:36,730 And so now, what do I do? 148 00:05:36,732 --> 00:05:38,942 I just hand this brilliant script that I've written-- 149 00:05:38,940 --> 00:05:40,690 I hand it to someone in the company 150 00:05:40,692 --> 00:05:43,152 and they're gonna read it an they're gonna get me an agent. 151 00:05:43,150 --> 00:05:45,630 It's also not that simple. 152 00:05:45,630 --> 00:05:48,300 What you really need to do, like Matt's saying is, 153 00:05:48,300 --> 00:05:49,320 you just gotta-- 154 00:05:49,320 --> 00:05:50,450 you gotta put in the work. 155 00:05:50,450 --> 00:05:54,230 We-- we made copies of scripts. 156 00:05:54,230 --> 00:05:56,510 We fetched coffees. 157 00:05:56,510 --> 00:05:59,990 I delivered presents to people. 158 00:05:59,990 --> 00:06:01,860 I did Christmas stuff. 159 00:06:01,860 --> 00:06:05,400 I-- it's-- and some of the time, I was given a fun task. 160 00:06:05,403 --> 00:06:07,073 Like I'd be like, here, read this script 161 00:06:07,070 --> 00:06:08,510 and let me know what you think. 162 00:06:08,510 --> 00:06:09,500 And you do. 163 00:06:09,500 --> 00:06:13,070 And you slowly start to earn people's trust. 164 00:06:13,070 --> 00:06:16,670 I was working at a company called Appian Way. 165 00:06:16,670 --> 00:06:18,530 And my boss there-- 166 00:06:18,530 --> 00:06:21,710 one of my bosses there was Franklin Leonard. 167 00:06:21,710 --> 00:06:24,710 You might know now, if-- if you're into screenwriting, 168 00:06:24,710 --> 00:06:26,510 he runs something called the Blacklist. 169 00:06:26,510 --> 00:06:28,730 But back then, it was-- and it's still, part of it 170 00:06:28,730 --> 00:06:31,460 is, today is it just a list of people's favorite scripts 171 00:06:31,460 --> 00:06:33,680 they read this year within Hollywood. 172 00:06:33,680 --> 00:06:37,910 So the point is Franklin was a great boss. 173 00:06:37,910 --> 00:06:39,590 And you know, I did work with him. 174 00:06:39,590 --> 00:06:40,820 And you start to earn trust. 175 00:06:40,820 --> 00:06:44,510 And I remember, I told him about this show called "The Wire." 176 00:06:44,510 --> 00:06:46,190 And I got him hooked on it. 177 00:06:46,190 --> 00:06:47,600 And he became obsessed. 178 00:06:47,600 --> 00:06:50,450 And just little things like that just-- 179 00:06:50,450 --> 00:06:52,490 again, just like with your scripts, baby steps. 180 00:06:52,493 --> 00:06:53,663 You start to earn people's-- 181 00:06:53,660 --> 00:06:55,850 You didn't-- you didn't hand Franklin the script the day you 182 00:06:55,850 --> 00:06:56,630 walked in there. 183 00:06:56,630 --> 00:06:56,900 No. 184 00:06:56,900 --> 00:06:58,160 Like, he'll never look at you again, probably. 185 00:06:58,160 --> 00:06:59,810 I think this was probably nine-- 186 00:06:59,810 --> 00:07:01,460 at least after 9, 10 months-- 187 00:07:01,460 --> 00:07:01,970 Right. 188 00:07:01,970 --> 00:07:03,290 --of working there. 189 00:07:03,290 --> 00:07:05,990 And I go, hey, here's a script. 190 00:07:05,990 --> 00:07:07,580 If you happen to have time, you know, 191 00:07:07,580 --> 00:07:09,290 I'd love your thoughts on it. 192 00:07:09,290 --> 00:07:11,270 Franklin read the script. 193 00:07:11,270 --> 00:07:13,640 And again, we wrote this script in college. 194 00:07:13,640 --> 00:07:14,810 It's a pretty messy script. 195 00:07:14,810 --> 00:07:16,530 It has a lot of issues. 196 00:07:16,530 --> 00:07:20,760 It has a pretty strong first 5 to 10 pages. 197 00:07:20,760 --> 00:07:22,820 Whatever it was that convinced Franklin, 198 00:07:22,820 --> 00:07:25,340 he thought that there was a promise in this. 199 00:07:25,340 --> 00:07:27,890 And he sent it to a couple of agents. 200 00:07:27,890 --> 00:07:29,760 They also thought there was promise in it. 201 00:07:29,760 --> 00:07:30,840 We took those meetings. 202 00:07:30,840 --> 00:07:33,290 And we had in-- 203 00:07:33,290 --> 00:07:35,490 through that, we were able to get agents. 204 00:07:35,490 --> 00:07:38,870 So the point is, you have to find your Franklin. 205 00:07:38,870 --> 00:07:40,610 It may not be through internships. 206 00:07:40,610 --> 00:07:44,270 It may be-- there may be through some other way. 207 00:07:44,270 --> 00:07:48,740 But the key is you need someone to hand your script to an agent 208 00:07:48,740 --> 00:07:50,810 and say, hey, this is good. 209 00:07:50,810 --> 00:07:54,350 If you just cold email, cold call, it's unlikely. 210 00:07:54,350 --> 00:07:56,150 There are other avenues. 211 00:07:56,150 --> 00:07:57,980 Franklin's Blacklist is one. 212 00:07:57,980 --> 00:07:58,960 There's-- 213 00:07:58,957 --> 00:07:59,917 There's competitions. 214 00:07:59,915 --> 00:08:00,985 There's competition. 215 00:08:00,980 --> 00:08:02,040 Some of those are valid. 216 00:08:02,040 --> 00:08:03,910 Some of those are just trying to steal your money. 217 00:08:03,910 --> 00:08:05,090 So you have to be careful. 218 00:08:05,090 --> 00:08:09,440 But generally, there are ways to get your script out. 219 00:08:09,440 --> 00:08:12,290 The most helpful thing and the fastest way, in our opinion, 220 00:08:12,290 --> 00:08:14,330 is to come out here and meet people. 221 00:08:14,330 --> 00:08:17,000 That may not be possible for you, in which case 222 00:08:17,000 --> 00:08:19,670 it is gonna have to be an online thing and it's gonna help. 223 00:08:19,670 --> 00:08:22,770 If your script is really good, hopefully, it'll find its way. 224 00:08:22,770 --> 00:08:26,090 But if there's any way that you can meet people out here, 225 00:08:26,090 --> 00:08:28,740 that is probably the fastest and cleanest way. 226 00:08:28,740 --> 00:08:30,810 It was within-- it's still gonna take time. 227 00:08:30,810 --> 00:08:33,260 It was a couple of years of interning and working 228 00:08:33,260 --> 00:08:36,230 before we were able to even get our script 229 00:08:36,230 --> 00:08:39,210 in the hand of someone who knew an agent, much less meet 230 00:08:39,210 --> 00:08:39,710 an agent. 231 00:08:39,710 --> 00:08:43,230 So it was just-- it is a process and it is gonna take some time. 232 00:08:43,230 --> 00:08:45,750 So if you can get out here, that would be great. 233 00:08:45,745 --> 00:08:47,875 And it can be-- it can be discouraging and just-- 234 00:08:47,870 --> 00:08:50,160 just as you're writing a script, it can be frustrating. 235 00:08:50,162 --> 00:08:52,982 So, like, just to show the other side of it. 236 00:08:52,977 --> 00:08:54,807 And I think I was just as good of an intern, 237 00:08:54,810 --> 00:08:56,300 if not a better intern than my brother. 238 00:08:56,300 --> 00:08:56,630 Right? 239 00:08:56,630 --> 00:08:57,200 OK? 240 00:08:57,200 --> 00:08:59,120 So-- and I put in about a year and a half 241 00:08:59,120 --> 00:09:00,800 at this company that shall not be named. 242 00:09:00,800 --> 00:09:01,300 Right? 243 00:09:01,300 --> 00:09:05,510 And I-- and, you know, I think I did solid-- good, solid work. 244 00:09:05,510 --> 00:09:08,420 And I hand the same exact script over to them saying, will 245 00:09:08,420 --> 00:09:08,960 you read it? 246 00:09:08,960 --> 00:09:10,100 Of course. 247 00:09:10,100 --> 00:09:11,200 Nothing happened. 248 00:09:11,200 --> 00:09:11,700 OK? 249 00:09:11,700 --> 00:09:13,370 Like, so-- it didn't go anywhere. 250 00:09:13,370 --> 00:09:14,870 They didn't send it to an agent or a manager. 251 00:09:14,870 --> 00:09:15,110 Right? 252 00:09:15,110 --> 00:09:15,870 They didn't help. 253 00:09:15,870 --> 00:09:19,790 So this is why don't bank on one single person or one 254 00:09:19,790 --> 00:09:21,740 single company. 255 00:09:21,740 --> 00:09:22,470 Spread out. 256 00:09:22,470 --> 00:09:24,460 If it's just you, just-- then-- then, you know, 257 00:09:24,455 --> 00:09:26,365 you need to spread out and go to a bunch 258 00:09:26,368 --> 00:09:27,408 of different internships. 259 00:09:27,410 --> 00:09:29,510 Don't bank on any one person or any one company. 260 00:09:29,510 --> 00:09:32,330 And-- and just try to meet as many people as you can. 261 00:09:32,330 --> 00:09:33,390 Or become an assistant. 262 00:09:33,390 --> 00:09:34,010 That's another way. 263 00:09:34,010 --> 00:09:35,140 There are a lot of avenues. 264 00:09:35,135 --> 00:09:36,835 But the most important one is trying 265 00:09:36,830 --> 00:09:39,210 to meet people that have connections 266 00:09:39,207 --> 00:09:40,037 within the industry. 267 00:09:47,600 --> 00:09:49,990 So you make connections. 268 00:09:49,990 --> 00:09:51,720 Someone knows an agent or a manager. 269 00:09:51,722 --> 00:09:52,932 They get your script to them. 270 00:09:52,930 --> 00:09:53,770 They like it. 271 00:09:53,770 --> 00:09:56,060 They go, hey, we want to represent you. 272 00:09:56,060 --> 00:09:57,730 So then, what happens? 273 00:09:57,730 --> 00:10:00,090 And, you know, at that point, we're like, 274 00:10:00,085 --> 00:10:01,435 you know, we made it. 275 00:10:01,430 --> 00:10:02,260 We did it. 276 00:10:02,262 --> 00:10:03,222 We did it, mom and dad. 277 00:10:03,220 --> 00:10:04,930 Like we got an agent in Hollywood. 278 00:10:04,930 --> 00:10:06,910 I mean, we thought we were pretty cool. 279 00:10:06,910 --> 00:10:08,410 I mean, being from North Carolina, 280 00:10:08,410 --> 00:10:11,320 all we knew about agents or managers at the time 281 00:10:11,320 --> 00:10:13,600 was from the HBO show "Entourage." 282 00:10:13,600 --> 00:10:15,220 That's literally all we knew. 283 00:10:15,220 --> 00:10:16,500 But it's, unfortunately, not that simple. 284 00:10:16,500 --> 00:10:18,670 So we had this script-- this script called "Origin," 285 00:10:18,667 --> 00:10:19,477 the-- the-- 286 00:10:19,480 --> 00:10:20,260 I'm infected. 287 00:10:20,260 --> 00:10:23,200 --infected, you know, gonna die in two hours script, 288 00:10:23,200 --> 00:10:26,500 which was kind of, in honesty, a little bit of a mess, right? 289 00:10:26,500 --> 00:10:30,430 Ross said good 5, 10-- first 5, 10 pages, which is cool. 290 00:10:30,430 --> 00:10:32,590 The rest of it kinda falls apart. 291 00:10:32,590 --> 00:10:33,830 We weren't outlining. 292 00:10:33,830 --> 00:10:34,330 OK? 293 00:10:34,330 --> 00:10:37,100 So that's why it's a mess, by the way. 294 00:10:37,102 --> 00:10:38,812 So why-- this is why you need to outline. 295 00:10:38,810 --> 00:10:39,830 So what happens next? 296 00:10:39,830 --> 00:10:42,130 The agents then send it out to producers 297 00:10:42,130 --> 00:10:44,800 who they think would be a good fit for the project. 298 00:10:44,800 --> 00:10:48,070 And then, they'll see which producers are interested. 299 00:10:48,070 --> 00:10:51,020 Then, we met with those producers who were interested. 300 00:10:51,023 --> 00:10:52,693 And then, you just hear them out and you 301 00:10:52,690 --> 00:10:55,180 see which ones seem to get you and get the project 302 00:10:55,180 --> 00:10:57,670 and seem genuinely passionate about them. 303 00:10:57,670 --> 00:10:58,480 Pick a producer. 304 00:10:58,480 --> 00:11:00,880 That's a key step is picking your producer. 305 00:11:00,880 --> 00:11:03,730 And then, that producer, along with your agent, 306 00:11:03,730 --> 00:11:06,430 will then send it out-- when they feel the time is right, 307 00:11:06,430 --> 00:11:08,830 they'll send it out to studios. 308 00:11:08,830 --> 00:11:09,700 And that was a film. 309 00:11:09,700 --> 00:11:11,410 So that went out to all the film studios. 310 00:11:11,408 --> 00:11:12,438 In this case, you know-- 311 00:11:12,440 --> 00:11:13,270 Warner Brothers, Paramount-- 312 00:11:13,270 --> 00:11:13,900 Yeah. 313 00:11:13,900 --> 00:11:14,650 That's what they-- 314 00:11:14,650 --> 00:11:15,340 Universal. 315 00:11:15,340 --> 00:11:16,970 So it went out to all these companies. 316 00:11:16,968 --> 00:11:18,008 And then, they read it. 317 00:11:18,010 --> 00:11:19,280 And we're like, here we go. 318 00:11:19,280 --> 00:11:21,010 And then, we just-- then, we're just waiting for the big 319 00:11:21,010 --> 00:11:23,050 paycheck and we're waiting for someone to buy it. 320 00:11:23,052 --> 00:11:24,712 And then, that did not happen. 321 00:11:24,710 --> 00:11:26,340 Which happens all the time, by the way. 322 00:11:26,335 --> 00:11:28,815 So scripts will go out wide-- they call it going out wide. 323 00:11:28,810 --> 00:11:30,800 You go out with the script. 324 00:11:30,800 --> 00:11:33,460 And for whatever reason, no one's gonna option it 325 00:11:33,457 --> 00:11:34,537 and no one's gonna buy it. 326 00:11:34,540 --> 00:11:37,900 I mean, I think it did actually come sort of close. 327 00:11:37,900 --> 00:11:40,070 It was like almost there, not quite. 328 00:11:40,070 --> 00:11:44,170 And I really do think if we had outlined it, that would've sold 329 00:11:44,170 --> 00:11:46,360 and-- and our, you know, career trajectory 330 00:11:46,360 --> 00:11:48,900 would've been really different. 331 00:11:48,903 --> 00:11:49,573 But it didn't. 332 00:11:49,570 --> 00:11:50,240 But it didn't. 333 00:11:50,237 --> 00:11:52,087 But it didn't end up selling. 334 00:11:52,090 --> 00:11:53,890 But that's OK, because what the key 335 00:11:53,890 --> 00:11:56,620 was we started knowing nobody. 336 00:11:56,620 --> 00:11:57,760 We came out here. 337 00:11:57,760 --> 00:12:00,910 We-- in turn, we met some people, like Franklin. 338 00:12:00,910 --> 00:12:03,500 But, again, our-- our knowledge of people in Hollywood 339 00:12:03,500 --> 00:12:04,670 was pretty small. 340 00:12:04,670 --> 00:12:05,860 We then got our agent. 341 00:12:05,860 --> 00:12:07,360 So we met some agents. 342 00:12:07,360 --> 00:12:09,710 And then, once it went out, suddenly, 343 00:12:09,712 --> 00:12:11,172 even though the script didn't sell, 344 00:12:11,170 --> 00:12:12,610 we were taking all these meetings. 345 00:12:12,610 --> 00:12:14,110 We felt like we were in "Entourage." 346 00:12:14,110 --> 00:12:16,540 We're meeting these-- some big-time producers. 347 00:12:16,540 --> 00:12:18,940 Were meeting over with studios. 348 00:12:18,940 --> 00:12:20,200 And it felt like, OK. 349 00:12:20,200 --> 00:12:23,720 Suddenly, we're-- the door has opened and we're into this 350 00:12:23,720 --> 00:12:24,220 world. 351 00:12:24,220 --> 00:12:26,920 We haven't made a penny yet, but at least we're 352 00:12:26,920 --> 00:12:28,160 starting to make connections. 353 00:12:28,160 --> 00:12:31,810 And, again, once you know people and you know the right people, 354 00:12:31,810 --> 00:12:34,940 the key is just gonna be to write a script that works. 355 00:12:34,940 --> 00:12:38,020 And unfortunately, "Origin," didn't fully work, 356 00:12:38,023 --> 00:12:39,193 which is why it didn't sell. 357 00:12:39,190 --> 00:12:42,310 So I'm-- you know, it is what it is. 358 00:12:42,310 --> 00:12:44,620 But it got us in the door. 359 00:12:44,620 --> 00:12:45,560 And that's the key. 360 00:12:45,560 --> 00:12:47,560 And I think with your first script-- 361 00:12:47,560 --> 00:12:49,180 listen, I hope it sells. 362 00:12:49,180 --> 00:12:51,860 I hope it goes out and sells in a bidding war. 363 00:12:51,860 --> 00:12:55,300 But if not, if you can get it to open that door for you 364 00:12:55,300 --> 00:12:57,940 and get into the world, that is a huge first step. 365 00:12:57,940 --> 00:13:00,250 And it was a huge step for us, in terms 366 00:13:00,250 --> 00:13:02,140 of getting to where we are now. 367 00:13:07,780 --> 00:13:09,780 Once you have that agent, they're gonna send-- 368 00:13:09,780 --> 00:13:12,320 the first thing they're gonna do is they're gonna send it out 369 00:13:12,322 --> 00:13:13,102 to producers. 370 00:13:13,102 --> 00:13:15,062 And they're gonna pick the producers they think 371 00:13:15,060 --> 00:13:16,890 are a good fit for your project, who they think might 372 00:13:16,890 --> 00:13:18,360 be interested in your project. 373 00:13:18,360 --> 00:13:21,810 Some of the producers are just gonna pass on your project. 374 00:13:21,810 --> 00:13:23,530 You're gonna get rejected lots of times. 375 00:13:23,530 --> 00:13:25,530 This is not something you should be upset about. 376 00:13:25,530 --> 00:13:27,080 These producers may just be busy. 377 00:13:27,080 --> 00:13:29,580 They may not have even read it, they're just not interested, 378 00:13:29,580 --> 00:13:30,270 whatever. 379 00:13:30,270 --> 00:13:31,860 What you want to be interested in is-- 380 00:13:31,860 --> 00:13:35,760 are the producers who liked your project, who want to meet you, 381 00:13:35,760 --> 00:13:38,280 who want to produce unit movie or your-- 382 00:13:38,280 --> 00:13:40,080 or your television show, right? 383 00:13:40,080 --> 00:13:44,820 So I think then what you do is you go and you meet-- 384 00:13:44,820 --> 00:13:48,150 or nowadays, maybe you Zoom, with all the producers 385 00:13:48,150 --> 00:13:49,440 who liked your project. 386 00:13:49,440 --> 00:13:51,060 And then, you hear them out. 387 00:13:51,060 --> 00:13:52,560 And they're gonna kind of actually-- 388 00:13:52,560 --> 00:13:54,090 this is kind of a cool stage, in where they're sort 389 00:13:54,090 --> 00:13:55,530 of pitching themselves to you. 390 00:13:55,532 --> 00:13:57,992 It's not-- it's, like, kind of a little bit of a low stress 391 00:13:57,990 --> 00:13:59,010 thing for you. 392 00:13:59,010 --> 00:14:01,560 You already know that they're interested in your project. 393 00:14:01,560 --> 00:14:03,780 And they're gonna talk about their visions 394 00:14:03,780 --> 00:14:06,320 for, not just your project, but for where it could end up. 395 00:14:06,315 --> 00:14:08,195 And they're gonna try to get you all excited. 396 00:14:08,190 --> 00:14:09,840 So how do you pick a good producer? 397 00:14:09,840 --> 00:14:12,220 I think this is one of those things where you really just 398 00:14:12,215 --> 00:14:14,745 have to trust your gut and you have to go with-- 399 00:14:14,740 --> 00:14:17,190 I wouldn't necessarily go with what seems 400 00:14:17,190 --> 00:14:18,720 on paper like the right idea. 401 00:14:18,720 --> 00:14:20,220 I think, you know, Ross and I had 402 00:14:20,220 --> 00:14:21,580 made that mistake in the past. 403 00:14:21,580 --> 00:14:23,550 I think the most important thing to do 404 00:14:23,550 --> 00:14:26,610 is just who seems to understand your material, who 405 00:14:26,610 --> 00:14:28,560 seems to understand you, who seems actually, 406 00:14:28,560 --> 00:14:30,300 genuinely the most passionate about it. 407 00:14:30,300 --> 00:14:32,720 Like, you want someone who's, like, really, really excited 408 00:14:32,717 --> 00:14:33,867 about it and who gets it. 409 00:14:33,870 --> 00:14:36,300 I mean, we met with a lot-- you know, this is-- 410 00:14:36,300 --> 00:14:38,550 talking about "Stranger Things" now. 411 00:14:38,550 --> 00:14:41,430 But when we first sent that script out 412 00:14:41,430 --> 00:14:45,120 and we had a meeting with a handful of producers, 413 00:14:45,120 --> 00:14:47,940 there were some who clearly-- you know, right away, we're 414 00:14:47,940 --> 00:14:49,860 like, well, this is not a good fit. 415 00:14:49,860 --> 00:14:52,830 Because they were going, listen, I really like this script. 416 00:14:52,830 --> 00:14:53,640 It's amazing. 417 00:14:53,640 --> 00:14:55,770 You know, I love it so much. 418 00:14:55,770 --> 00:14:57,150 Can we remove the kids? 419 00:14:57,150 --> 00:14:58,710 Like, let's just make it-- because 420 00:14:58,710 --> 00:15:01,560 and, again, the producer's goal is to sell the material. 421 00:15:01,560 --> 00:15:04,860 They see kids and it's not a kids show, immediately, 422 00:15:04,860 --> 00:15:06,790 that's a red flag for them. 423 00:15:06,790 --> 00:15:09,270 They haven't seen a script like that sell, I don't know, 424 00:15:09,270 --> 00:15:10,930 for a really long time. 425 00:15:10,930 --> 00:15:13,640 So they're like, this is gonna be very difficult to sell. 426 00:15:13,638 --> 00:15:15,178 We knew immediately, anyone's telling 427 00:15:15,180 --> 00:15:17,860 us to remove the kids from the show is wrong for the project. 428 00:15:17,863 --> 00:15:19,283 We actually even had the opposite. 429 00:15:19,280 --> 00:15:20,820 We had people go, let's just make it a kid show, 430 00:15:20,820 --> 00:15:22,200 remove the adult characters. 431 00:15:22,200 --> 00:15:23,700 We're like, well, that's also wrong. 432 00:15:23,700 --> 00:15:23,960 Right? 433 00:15:23,955 --> 00:15:25,085 That's-- that's not right. 434 00:15:25,080 --> 00:15:27,250 That means you don't get-- they don't get what we're 435 00:15:27,247 --> 00:15:28,717 trying to do for the show. 436 00:15:28,720 --> 00:15:30,660 But eventually, you'll meet the producer who, 437 00:15:30,660 --> 00:15:33,340 they say all the right things, they know the same references, 438 00:15:33,340 --> 00:15:34,830 they love the same movies you do, 439 00:15:34,830 --> 00:15:36,820 they know exactly what you want to do. 440 00:15:36,820 --> 00:15:37,320 Right? 441 00:15:37,320 --> 00:15:38,310 Oh, there's another example. 442 00:15:38,310 --> 00:15:38,550 Right? 443 00:15:38,550 --> 00:15:40,020 We had a producer we were with. 444 00:15:40,020 --> 00:15:42,210 And they said, when you're pitching this, 445 00:15:42,208 --> 00:15:44,248 I love the script-- they didn't want us to change 446 00:15:44,250 --> 00:15:45,270 the kids or any of that. 447 00:15:45,270 --> 00:15:46,770 But they said, when you're going out 448 00:15:46,770 --> 00:15:49,650 and you're pitching this to these television studios, 449 00:15:49,650 --> 00:15:52,230 they don't understand movies or no movies. 450 00:15:52,230 --> 00:15:54,910 So you can't reference movies when you're pitching your show. 451 00:15:54,908 --> 00:15:55,948 And I was like, I don't-- 452 00:15:55,950 --> 00:15:57,330 I literally-- I was like, I don't 453 00:15:57,325 --> 00:15:59,315 know how to pitch "Stranger Things" 454 00:15:59,310 --> 00:16:01,440 and not be able to reference "ET." 455 00:16:01,440 --> 00:16:05,520 And I was like, do-- do television studio executives-- 456 00:16:05,520 --> 00:16:06,690 they haven't seen "ET?" 457 00:16:06,690 --> 00:16:08,440 Like it just didn't make any sense to me. 458 00:16:08,440 --> 00:16:09,230 So that was-- 459 00:16:09,225 --> 00:16:10,055 A red flag. 460 00:16:10,050 --> 00:16:10,830 --a red flag. 461 00:16:10,830 --> 00:16:13,050 And we ended up walking away from that producer. 462 00:16:13,050 --> 00:16:15,630 So at the end of the day, you know, trust your gut. 463 00:16:15,630 --> 00:16:18,030 Go with who gets you and who gets your material. 464 00:16:18,025 --> 00:16:20,405 That's how you know-- and who's gonna support your vision 465 00:16:20,400 --> 00:16:22,570 and support you specifically. 466 00:16:22,567 --> 00:16:24,147 And that's how you make your decision. 467 00:16:30,963 --> 00:16:32,383 So you've settled on a producer. 468 00:16:32,380 --> 00:16:35,350 So what's gonna happen now is the producer's gonna go, 469 00:16:35,350 --> 00:16:37,150 well, I think the best course of selling 470 00:16:37,150 --> 00:16:42,130 it is to go to these companies or these studios. 471 00:16:42,130 --> 00:16:43,870 Now, we're starting to get closer 472 00:16:43,870 --> 00:16:46,630 to that original idea, which is like, how do I get to Netflix 473 00:16:46,630 --> 00:16:47,680 or Amazon or whatever? 474 00:16:47,680 --> 00:16:49,940 Well, now, that's where we're headed. 475 00:16:49,940 --> 00:16:53,620 So they might say, I think this is a great fit for Netflix 476 00:16:53,620 --> 00:16:54,910 and Amazon or whoever. 477 00:16:54,910 --> 00:16:58,060 And so-- but the trick is, with those companies, 478 00:16:58,060 --> 00:17:00,490 you're not gonna just send your script 479 00:17:00,490 --> 00:17:02,620 and they're gonna just buy it and that's it. 480 00:17:02,620 --> 00:17:05,320 What you're gonna need to do when you're devel-- doing 481 00:17:05,319 --> 00:17:07,569 the TV shows, you're gonna need to develop a pitch, 482 00:17:07,569 --> 00:17:11,529 so you can give them a sense of not just the pilot, 483 00:17:11,530 --> 00:17:15,100 but you're trying to give them a sense of what the entire season 484 00:17:15,099 --> 00:17:16,269 of that show is like. 485 00:17:16,270 --> 00:17:19,810 So a pitch is an elaboration, essentially, on-- 486 00:17:19,810 --> 00:17:20,830 on the pilot. 487 00:17:20,829 --> 00:17:23,199 So what these studio executives are gonna get, 488 00:17:23,200 --> 00:17:24,790 they're gonna have read your script. 489 00:17:24,790 --> 00:17:26,650 So if they like your script and you're 490 00:17:26,650 --> 00:17:29,570 invited to go meet with them, that's a really good sign. 491 00:17:29,570 --> 00:17:32,080 That means they liked your script, most likely. 492 00:17:32,080 --> 00:17:33,370 Not always the case, actually. 493 00:17:33,370 --> 00:17:36,400 But usually-- usually, it means that they liked your script. 494 00:17:36,400 --> 00:17:40,210 And at that point, basically, you want to-- 495 00:17:40,210 --> 00:17:41,990 and how long is it pitch usually? 496 00:17:41,992 --> 00:17:42,702 I mean, I guess-- 497 00:17:42,700 --> 00:17:45,110 Ours was, like, 15 minutes maybe. 498 00:17:45,105 --> 00:17:45,975 15, 20 minutes. 499 00:17:45,970 --> 00:17:46,120 Right? 500 00:17:46,120 --> 00:17:47,290 You don't wanna be too long. 501 00:17:47,287 --> 00:17:48,907 You don't wanna feel like, you know-- 502 00:17:48,910 --> 00:17:50,580 you don't wanna be long-winded, looking 503 00:17:50,577 --> 00:17:52,657 at their clock-- you know, looking at their watch, 504 00:17:52,660 --> 00:17:52,930 whatever. 505 00:17:52,930 --> 00:17:55,000 That's a bad sign, if they're looking at their watches. 506 00:17:55,000 --> 00:17:56,560 So you wanna be brief, to the point, 507 00:17:56,560 --> 00:17:59,500 and all you're doing with the pitch is telling them, 508 00:17:59,500 --> 00:18:01,840 essentially, how awesome your show is 509 00:18:01,840 --> 00:18:04,730 and how cool it's gonna be and what's cool about it. 510 00:18:04,727 --> 00:18:07,057 And you're gonna tell them all the things that weren't-- 511 00:18:07,060 --> 00:18:09,330 aren't maybe evident in-- in the pilot. 512 00:18:09,330 --> 00:18:09,830 Yes. 513 00:18:09,830 --> 00:18:12,290 And I think, probably, the best way to explain, you know, 514 00:18:12,288 --> 00:18:15,518 exactly what a pitch is to show you what the pitch was 515 00:18:15,520 --> 00:18:17,710 for-- for "Montauk" or "Stranger Things." 516 00:18:17,710 --> 00:18:20,110 I, mean we wrote out the whole thing and memorized it. 517 00:18:20,110 --> 00:18:21,860 You definitely don't wanna go into a pitch 518 00:18:21,860 --> 00:18:24,280 and read off a sheet of paper, like that. 519 00:18:24,280 --> 00:18:26,230 I mean, that's one way to not sell a show. 520 00:18:26,230 --> 00:18:28,960 I think this is an area where a lot of writers 521 00:18:28,960 --> 00:18:31,920 get really nervous, because we're not-- 522 00:18:31,920 --> 00:18:33,340 we're not actors, right? 523 00:18:33,340 --> 00:18:34,840 It's not-- and it's kind of annoying 524 00:18:34,840 --> 00:18:36,250 that, actually, you even have to do this, 525 00:18:36,250 --> 00:18:37,990 you have to go, like, sell yourself. 526 00:18:37,990 --> 00:18:41,260 Because writers tend to, like, hide from other people. 527 00:18:41,260 --> 00:18:43,590 I'm not-- and, you know-- you don't-- you're not-- 528 00:18:43,585 --> 00:18:45,675 you're not good at boasting. 529 00:18:45,670 --> 00:18:48,250 But that's why the best thing to do 530 00:18:48,250 --> 00:18:50,690 is do what you do best, which is write. 531 00:18:50,690 --> 00:18:52,090 Write your pitch down. 532 00:18:52,087 --> 00:18:53,167 You're not winging this. 533 00:18:53,170 --> 00:18:53,920 You don't wing it. 534 00:18:53,920 --> 00:18:54,160 Right? 535 00:18:54,160 --> 00:18:56,110 You probably don't have that-- if you're like us, 536 00:18:56,110 --> 00:18:57,550 you don't have that skill set, right? 537 00:18:57,550 --> 00:18:59,200 To just sort of be improvising it on the day, 538 00:18:59,200 --> 00:19:00,740 you're gonna get nervous or whatever. 539 00:19:00,742 --> 00:19:03,432 The best thing to do, write out your pitch, 540 00:19:03,430 --> 00:19:06,950 memorize it, and just-- and just spit it out on the day 541 00:19:06,952 --> 00:19:09,162 and try to make it feel like you're coming up with it 542 00:19:09,160 --> 00:19:10,600 on the spot, but you won't be. 543 00:19:16,720 --> 00:19:19,690 What happens is-- so you'll go into a room. 544 00:19:19,690 --> 00:19:22,210 And, you know, you'll pitch your heart out. 545 00:19:22,210 --> 00:19:25,190 And then, they go "Thank you." 546 00:19:25,190 --> 00:19:26,170 And you leave. 547 00:19:26,170 --> 00:19:28,570 And then, you just wait for a phone call from your agent. 548 00:19:28,568 --> 00:19:30,108 They're not gonna follow up with you, 549 00:19:30,110 --> 00:19:31,280 they're gonna follow up with your agent. 550 00:19:31,280 --> 00:19:32,820 So if it's bad news, you don't have-- 551 00:19:32,822 --> 00:19:35,122 you hear-- you're kind of hearing it secondhand. 552 00:19:35,125 --> 00:19:36,945 If it's good news, you're hearing it second hand. 553 00:19:36,940 --> 00:19:38,290 And, yeah, good news, you're hearing-- right. 554 00:19:38,290 --> 00:19:38,530 Whatever. 555 00:19:38,530 --> 00:19:40,520 You're ne-- you're never gonna hear directly from them. 556 00:19:40,520 --> 00:19:42,060 That's what the agent or your manager 557 00:19:42,062 --> 00:19:44,802 is for, to communicate directly with the studio or the network. 558 00:19:44,800 --> 00:19:46,200 So you just wait. 559 00:19:46,202 --> 00:19:48,162 Sometimes you gotta wait-- some day-- sometimes 560 00:19:48,160 --> 00:19:49,570 you'll hear that day. 561 00:19:49,570 --> 00:19:52,060 Sometimes you'll-- you'll hear stories about people being-- 562 00:19:52,060 --> 00:19:53,840 you know, they're buying it in the room. 563 00:19:53,840 --> 00:19:54,160 I don't know. 564 00:19:54,160 --> 00:19:55,090 That never happened to me. 565 00:19:55,090 --> 00:19:56,860 I guess that does happen to some people. 566 00:19:56,860 --> 00:19:58,600 Or it'll be the next day, sometimes 567 00:19:58,600 --> 00:20:00,850 it'll be three days, whatever. 568 00:20:00,850 --> 00:20:02,240 But I wouldn't panic. 569 00:20:02,240 --> 00:20:04,930 We had no idea when we were walking out 570 00:20:04,930 --> 00:20:06,190 that they would buy it or not. 571 00:20:06,190 --> 00:20:08,860 We-- they just-- it was just total poker face. 572 00:20:08,860 --> 00:20:12,200 We had no sense of how much they liked it or not. 573 00:20:12,195 --> 00:20:14,325 And we were all-- we were just-- we were terrified. 574 00:20:14,320 --> 00:20:16,890 So you really are just waiting for your agent to call you. 575 00:20:16,887 --> 00:20:18,967 And then, hopefully your agent is nicer than ours, 576 00:20:18,970 --> 00:20:21,720 because he called us and said, bad news. 577 00:20:21,720 --> 00:20:22,670 They didn't like it. 578 00:20:22,668 --> 00:20:23,958 And then, he said, I'm kidding. 579 00:20:23,960 --> 00:20:24,860 They're buying this story. 580 00:20:24,860 --> 00:20:25,870 And that was really mean. 581 00:20:25,870 --> 00:20:26,950 It gave us a heart attack. 582 00:20:26,953 --> 00:20:28,473 Yeah.