Bicentennial hats here!
Bicentennial hats.
Excuse me, do you feel patriotic?
Patriotic is... is not the real feeling that I have right now.
People like bicentennial hats, I sell 'em bicentennial hats.
Uh-huh.
Ladies and gentlemen, of this beautiful day
and this bicentennial day, right here, downtown in New York City,
ladies and gentlemen.
Joseph Hurdley Jr., songwriter of New York City.
Otherwise, Uncle Sam is going to sing
one of his versions of "The Star-Spangled Banner."
Ladies and gentlemen, "The Star-Spangled Banner" with new music.
Words by Francis Scott Key and music by Joseph Hurdley Jr.,
dedicated to the future of America, God save the republic.
Are you ready, maestro?
No maestros? I'll sing it myself.
♪ O say, can you see By the dawn's early light ♪
It's one dollar.
Get your copies here.
I've got four versions of...
♪ Hey! Mr. Tambourine Man ♪
♪ Play a song for me ♪
♪ I'm not sleepy And there is no place I'm going to ♪
♪ Hey! Mr. Tambourine Man ♪
♪ Play a song for me ♪
♪ In the jingle jangle morning ♪
♪ I'll come followin' you ♪
♪ Though I know that evenin's empire ♪
♪ Has returned into sand... ♪
We're gathered in this historic house
for the celebration of the 200th anniversary
of the United States,
but I refer to the words that were spoken
by those who at the time of the Declaration of Independence
thought of the mission of America,
what America could mean to the world.
And one of them said that we act not just for ourselves,
but for all mankind.
♪ Hey! Mr. Tambourine Man ♪
♪ Play a song for me... ♪
Saigon had fallen.
People had seemed to, uh, lost their sense of,
uh, conviction for...
for just about anything.
♪ Hey! Mr. Tambourine Man... ♪
Lot of arguments about why...
America was chased out of Vietnam...
in such a humiliating way.
Two people tried to shoot the president in one month.
♪ Take me on a trip Upon your magic... ♪
Let us set for our goal in 1976
to move forward in the realm of the American spirit.
♪ My hands can't feel to grip ♪
That the opportunity that everybody in this room has had...
is something that is a realizable dream
that can be achieved
for anyone who has the good fortune to be born in this country,
or anyone who has the good fortune to come to this country.
♪ Ready for to fade Into my own parade... ♪
The idea was to put a tour up,
combination of different acts on the same stage
for a variety of, uh, musical styles.
I wouldn't say it was a, uh, traditional revue,
but it was in the, uh, traditional... um...
form of, uh, of a revue.
That's all clumsy bullshit.
- Okay. - Y'know.
- So what... - I'm trying to get to the...
To the core thing.
To the core of what this Rolling Thunder thing is all about,
and I don't have a clue,
because it's not... It's about nothing.
It's a... It's just something that happened 40 years ago.
And that's the truth of it.
- Why don't we go down that road? - Okay, we can.
Let's go.
All right, let's go.
I don't remember a thing about Rolling Thunder.
- Okay. - I mean, it... it happened
so long ago, I wasn't even born, you know?
Uh, I... So, what do you wanna know?
♪ And take me disappearing ♪
♪ Through the rings of my mind ♪
♪ Down the foggy ruins of time ♪
♪ Far past the frozen leaves ♪
♪ The haunted, frightened trees ♪
♪ Out to the windy beach ♪
♪ Far from the twisted reach Of crazy sorrow ♪
♪ Yes, to dance beneath the diamond sky ♪
♪ With one hand waving free ♪
♪ Silhouetted by the sea ♪
♪ Circled by the circus sands ♪
♪ With all memory and fate ♪
♪ Driven deep beneath the waves ♪
♪ Let me forget about today Until tomorrow ♪
♪ Hey! Mr. Tambourine Man ♪
♪ Play a song for me ♪
♪ I'm not sleepy... ♪
Is that Bob Dylan? That is Bob Dylan!
Life isn't about finding yourself...
or finding anything. Life is about creating yourself.
- Playing tonight? - And creating things.
And I want to introduce another fine...
entertainer here at Folk City,
so everybody...
Summer, 1975.
It was a very odd scene in New York.
Unusual. Sort of. The folk era had died out. Or did it?
Joan Baez
and her friend Bob Dylan!
Let's have a nice hand for Joan Baez...
Rumor came around that the inspired Dylan was back,
gathering all... all his forces.
♪ When ev'rything that I'm sayin' ♪
♪ You can say it just as good ♪
Woo!
And pretty soon, they were all jamming together
as if they were young musicians having fun,
actually in direct contact with each other.
♪ And all the hills echoèd ♪
♪ My name is Juanano de Castro ♪
Lord...
♪ My father was a Spanish grandee ♪
Excuse me, please!
We're really running short of time. I wanna introduce...
Miss Patti Smith and Eric Anderson.
Let's have a nice hand.
Let's hear it! Get up here!
There was a...
There was an archer...
There was an archer who was in love with his sister.
So, the archer looked at his sister
and he said,
"All the madness between me and you is real private."
But the sister was too scared, so the sister...
the sister married the sultan.
So the archer became a... the archer for the king.
So, it was the wedding night, and the sultan and the sister
were gonna get married.
And so...
the archer went out the door, and he had on his armor,
and he was going. There was all, like...
You know how like the gran... ground was in 16th-century ?
It was black and green like a chessboard.
So the archer was walking on the black part of the chessboard,
and he looked at the black part of the chessboard,
and it looked like the back of his sister's hair.
And so...
You know how it is.
Yeah.
Anyway, it looked... Oh, what a mess.
Looked like the back of his sister's hair,
and so he couldn't advance and be the king's archer no more,
because he looked over at the palace, and over at the palace,
he saw his sister undressing
for the sultan.
So the prince took off a... took off all his armor,
and he started walking toward the palace.
He started walking in another direction,
started walking in another dimension,
started walking in another dimension.
He moved in another dimension.
♪ I move in another dimension ♪
♪ And he kept on walking ♪
♪ And he walked real slow ♪
♪ Here is the first archer ♪
♪ In rock 'n' roll ♪
♪ He walked toward the palace ♪
♪ Toward the palace of answers ♪
♪ He took big steps ♪
♪ He walked seven ways ♪
♪ He freed the elements ♪
♪ The hurricane just burst From his hands ♪
♪ You are my sunshine ♪
- ♪ My only sunshine ♪ - Let's go!
♪ You make me happy ♪
- ♪ When skies are gray ♪ - Whoopee!
♪ You'll never know, dear How much I... ♪
October, November, uh...
Dylan might have some idea to do something.
Sort of like a... con man,
carny medicine show of old,
where you just get in a bus and go from town...
or a carriage, and go from town to town.
It's like Dylan is taking us out to try and give us each... He's presenting us.
I mean, that's his conception. I mean, it hasn't been made overt.
His idea is, uh...
to show how beautiful he is...
...by showing how beautiful we are...
by showing how beautiful...
the ensemble is.
So, it's to show the actual community.
Which is way... the way... the way life is, the way that life of poets is.
♪ I live in an apartment ♪
♪ Sink leaks through the walls ♪
♪ Lower East Side full of bedbugs ♪
♪ Junkies in the halls ♪
♪ House been broken into ♪
♪ Tibetan thangkas stole ♪
♪ Speed freaks took my statues ♪
♪ And made my love a fool ♪
♪ Speed freaks took my statues ♪
♪ And made my love a fool ♪
- Do you wanna hear more or...? - Yeah.
I got this big audition.
There was this party at Allen Ginsberg's apartment.
And that's where you met Dylan?
Uh, yes.
- What did you think of him? - Uh, Dylan was fine.
There were all these crazy people,
all getting high and coming up to him
and spinning faster and faster, and Bob didn't react.
I think he just, uh, watched the whole thing.
I think he liked the chaos.
♪ I am a rake and a rambling boy ♪
♪ There's many a city I did enjoy ♪
- Woo! - ♪ But now I married me a better wife ♪
♪ And I love her dearer Than I love my life ♪
My idea was to have a kind of a jug band,
uh, for the whole show,
something, uh, along the lines of maybe, uh, Kweskin Jug Band...
but that didn't happen.
They were in the middle of the rehearsals at SIR Studio,
and I talked to Levy, and he asked Dylan if it was all right for me to shoot
B-roll of the rehearsal.
Dylan was all right with it, but Levy told me there was no budget.
Because I thought that this was really going to go somewhere,
I took all the money that I had,
and I paid for everything out of my own pocket.
- Did Bob like you? - I don't know, who knows?
He was... It was like looking into a mirror.
You either saw what you wanted to see,
or you hated what you saw.
I can tell you this, back then I used to,
and I held mine like this,
you know, the European style.
After that night at Ginsberg's, Bob started holding it like that, too.
That was me.
♪ Rita May, Rita May ♪
♪ How did you ever get that way? ♪
♪ When'd you ever see the light? ♪
♪ Don't you ever feel afraid? ♪
♪ You got me burning and a-turning ♪
♪ But I know I must be learning ♪
♪ Rita May ♪
♪ And I don't sense affection ♪
♪ No gratitude or love ♪
♪ Your loyalty is not to me ♪
- ♪ But to the stars above ♪ - Yeah!
♪ One more cup of coffee for the road ♪
♪ One more cup of coffee 'fore I go ♪
♪ To the valley below ♪
I was going to a jazz musician friend of mine house
in the Lower East Side,
and I was just about to cross the street, and a car cut me off.
It was Bob.
It was Dylan.
And...
It was never verbalized.
I knew who he was, or he knew I knew.
Just sort of passed, you know.
We just played music all day and all night.
We went to The Bottom Line and played with Muddy Waters,
and we went that night to Victoria Spivey's house.
She's an old blues singer.
And, um...
we played music till about six in the morning.
It was really great.
She wears a turtle...
♪ She wears a turtleneck sweater ♪
♪ And a nylon shoe ♪
♪ She wears a turtleneck sweater ♪
♪ And a nylon shoe ♪
♪ There's nothing she won't say ♪
♪ And there's nothing that she won't do ♪
There are 52 people. If each person asks him is he okay,
it becomes a long, hard question and answer period for him.
Is the light bothering him?
Is the guitar right?
Does he like the lighting?
Is the sound monitor okay?
He's a big man, and he knows what he wants.
♪ No llores, mi querida ♪
♪ Dios nos vigila ♪
♪ Soon the horse will take us to Durango ♪
Five ten.
- Five ten? - Yeah.
So what does he do?
He's a director.
Theater.
Theater?
But that's not...
That's why I'm saying it's tricky because it's not marriage, is it?
I mean, unless you actually make it...
Well, I mean, maybe marriage to the theater.
But when you said marriage,
I assumed you... you meant marriage between two people.
- Yeah. - Did you?
Well, no, mental marriage.
- Mental marriage? - Yeah.
Ah, well, that's interesting.
♪ Some speak of the future ♪
♪ My love, she speaks softly ♪
♪ 'Cause there's no success like failure ♪
♪ And failure's no success at all ♪
Hey!
I'm doing a... a thing on a tour for Rolling Stone magazine.
- Yes. - Okay?
And... And basically, I saw Bob leave,
uh, after that... uh, um, the dialogue you did with him, the marriage thing.
Yes.
And he said to one of the cameramen, "That is hot. That was a hot scene."
- Okay. - Oh, I'm really flattered. I'm touched.
Okay, now, look, I... I... I just wanna know,
how did... how did it happen? I mean, was it set up?
- It happened... No. - Was it a set up scene?
It was totally spontaneous.
I was on my way to the bathroom...
Yeah.
...when, uh, on my way, uh, Mel Howard introduced me to Bob Dylan.
What... What did you say? And what was your point...
- What did I say to... - In the conversation to Bob?
Well, it was a sort of free...
- uh, going from one thing to another. - Freewheeling?
- Freewheeling. - It wasn't...
It wasn't meant to be specifically... specifically that.
Yeah, but you started talking about marriage.
Out of the blue,
- the subject of marriage came up. - But what did you say?
♪ Come gather 'round, fellers ♪
♪ So young and so fine ♪
♪ And seek not your fortune ♪
♪ Down in the mine ♪
♪ It will form... ♪
Was the idea to make a behind-the-scenes film of the tour?
I think that's what they were expecting.
They just thought that I was going to make it a concert film,
but I was trying to make something really serious out of this.
First, what I wanted to show was musicians working together,
making music together.
That was them doing their job.
That was, you know,
that was as if I went to film my father in his shoe store.
Focus in on that.
What is that, Patti?
I seen th... this Rimbaud book,
and I saw this picture.
I saw this vogue picture, and I thought it looked like you,
- and I thought he was a neat guy, y'know? - Yeah?
And I thought you were neat, so I used to, like, pretend he was my boyfriend.
Or if... Or if you were. You know, it doesn't matter, right?
So anyway...
What did you say?
- What did I say? - Yeah.
I gave my thoughts on...
He spoke about mental marriage.
- When he asked me... - Mental marriage?
Uh, Superman takes a piece of coal,
and he puts it in his hand, and he starts squeezing it,
and squeezing it, and squeezing it, and squeezing it,
and then it becomes like a diamond.
- It's real hard. - Yeah.
And then, like, he drops it on the ground,
- on the baseball diamond. - Yeah.
And the kids, the kids keep kicking it, the kids keep kicking it.
- Yeah. - Then it goes round and round.
And after years and years of kids kicking it around,
it gets smooth, but it's not... It's just changed.
It's still the same crystal, but it's smooth, so it's a crystal ball.
So it's sitting there in the middle,
the crystal ball is sitting there in the middle of the baseball diamond.
- Right. - Okay? Now you can look in.
I hated the ristelaars...
the, you know, the... the facilitators.
You know, the... the people hanging around him.
People pretending that they had access,
so that they could behave badly.
This film was going to show
the counterpoint between the... the excesses of the people
on the tour and the dissolution of society.
- Come on, everybody. - Allen!
I wanted to show the land of Pet Rocks
and Super Slurpees from 7-Eleven.
L'Amérique insolite.
I would go on the road with the Rolling Thunder Revue.
Right here.
See you Thursday.
This is a true story. Actually, they're all true.
Boy. Sure hope we get to Boston on time.
♪ I married Isis ♪
♪ On the fifth day of May ♪
♪ But I could not hold on ♪
♪ To her very long ♪
♪ So I cut off my hair ♪
♪ And I rode straight away ♪
♪ For the wild, unknown country ♪
♪ Where I could not go wrong ♪
♪ I came to a high place ♪
♪ Of darkness and light ♪
♪ The dividing line ran ♪
♪ Through the center of town ♪
♪ I hitched up my pony ♪
♪ To a post on the right ♪
♪ Went into a laundry ♪
♪ To wash my clothes down ♪
♪ A man in the corner ♪
♪ Approached me for a match ♪
♪ I knew right away ♪
♪ He was not ordinary ♪
♪ He said, "Are you looking ♪
♪ For something easy to catch?" ♪
♪ I said, "I got no money, man" ♪
♪ He said, "That ain't necessary" ♪
♪ We set out that night ♪
♪ For the cold in the north ♪
♪ I gave him my blanket ♪
♪ And he gave me his word ♪
♪ I said, "Where we goin'?" ♪
♪ He said, "We be back by the fourth" ♪
♪ I said, "That's the best news ♪
♪ That I've ever heard" ♪
♪ I was thinkin' about turquoise ♪
♪ I was thinkin' about gold ♪
♪ I was thinkin' about diamonds ♪
♪ And the world's biggest necklace ♪
♪ As we rode through the canyons ♪
♪ Through the devilish cold ♪
♪ I was thinkin' about Isis ♪
♪ How she thought I was so reckless ♪
♪ She told me, though, that one day We would meet up again ♪
♪ And things would be different ♪
♪ The next time we wed ♪
♪ If I could only just hang on ♪
♪ And be her friend ♪
♪ I still can't remember ♪
♪ All the best things she said ♪
♪ We came to the pyramids ♪
♪ All embedded in ice ♪
♪ He said, "There's a body ♪
♪ That I'm tryin' to find ♪
♪ If I carry it out ♪
♪ It'll bring a good price" ♪
♪ 'Twas then that I knew ♪
♪ What he had on his mind ♪
♪ Well, the wind, it was howlin' ♪
♪ And the snow was outrageous ♪
♪ We chopped through the night ♪
♪ And we chopped through the dawn ♪
♪ When he died, I was hopin' ♪
♪ That it wasn't contagious ♪
♪ But I made up my mind ♪
♪ That I had to get on ♪
♪ I picked up his body ♪
♪ And I dragged him inside ♪
♪ Threw him down in a hole ♪
♪ And I put back the cover ♪
♪ I said a quick prayer ♪
♪ Just to feel satisfied ♪
♪ Then I went back to find Isis ♪
♪ Just to tell her I love her ♪
♪ She was there in the meadow ♪
♪ Where the creek used to rise ♪
♪ Blinded by sleep ♪
♪ And in need of a bed ♪
♪ I came in from the East ♪
♪ With the sun in my eyes ♪
♪ I cursed her one time Then I rode on ahead ♪
♪ She said, "Where you been?" ♪
♪ I said, "No place special" ♪
♪ She said, "You look different" I said, "Well, I guess" ♪
♪ She said, "You been gone" ♪
♪ I said, "That's only natural" She said, "You gonna stay?" ♪
♪ I said, "If you want me to, yeah!" ♪
♪ Isis, oh, Isis ♪
♪ You a mystical child ♪
♪ What drives me to you ♪
♪ Is what drives me insane ♪
♪ I still can remember ♪
♪ The way that you smiled ♪
♪ On the fifth day of May ♪
♪ In the drizzlin' rain ♪
Hi, Bob.
- Hi, what you guys want? An interview? - Sure.
- Ah, wh... - How was it, Bob?
How was what?
What did Bob say about the tour?
I never asked him anything because, you know,
he wouldn't answer direct questions.
Dylan, you're beautiful.
Bob!
A legend is in town,
and it's not just another... rock 'n' roll show.
I mean, it's rock 'n' roll, but it's a special event.
where rock 'n' roll has four or five legends,
this is one of them, and maybe the biggest one at the present time.
Not to brag, but Rolling Thunder was kinda my idea,
you know.
Bob had done that tour with The Band a few years back,
and that was super successful,
and then Crosby, Stills, Nash & Young were filling 50,000 seats a night.
And Zeppelin was huge. I mean, there was money everywhere.
You know, all you had to do was bend down, pick it up.
So, I had an idea that some kind of revue with Bob would be a gold mine.
So I went off and pitched the idea,
and a bunch of local promoters were interested.
And then by the time I was done, I ended up with 15 headliners.
♪ I'm gonna have to go to college 'Cause you are... ♪
Now you've asked for it!
We took a big risk. And, uh, you know,
you had to put up the money, get everybody, you know, hotels, catering,
cars, all this stuff, buses.
And you had to keep all these guys happy and, you know, focused.
And so... And that was, you loaded up before you went out on the road.
Then you hope you got paid. And you hope the show worked.
Did you have any interaction with Bob?
The only time I saw Bob was when he was onstage
or driving the bus.
You know? Bob kept to himself.
How did it become "Rolling Thunder Revue"?
Well, I asked Bob. He said originally he was gonna call it
Montezuma's Revue,
but then he said he was home,
and he was just kind of trying to think of a name for the tour,
when all of a sudden in the sky, he heard, "Boom!"
And then, from left to right,
punctuating the sky,
"Boom, boom, boom, boom!"
So he said, "Hey, let's call it 'Rolling Thunder.'"
So before we even left,
Chesley Millikin, who was on the tour, says,
"Bob, you know what 'rolling thunder' means to the Indians?"
And he goes, "What, man?" And Chesley goes, "Speaking truth."
And then Bob goes, "I'm glad to hear that, man."
Of course, later on we found out that Rolling Thunder was actually
the code name for, uh, Nixon's bombing of Cambodia.
And that Guam, the backup band, was the base that, uh, they took off from.
So, who knows what the real story is.
This is the leaflet for a concert they're having in town next week.
Bob Dylan, Joan Baez, and Jack Elliott.
Right in the Civic Center.
You know me, I'm too old for that kind of stuff.
Oh, well.
- Okay. - So...
when did you first hear about Bob?
This is like a... a... It sounds like a fairy tale,
but all... a lot of the...
It doesn't happen continuously for more than a few days at a time,
but a lot of my life,
I feel like I really am leading a charmed life,
because miracles start happening in threes or fours.
One thing I could tell you about Ramblin' Jack,
he's more of a sailor than a singer.
He can tie a bowline, a clove hitch, and he could tie a rolling hitch,
all blindfolded.
If you're ever on a boat or sailing ship,
you would rather have Ramblin' Jack there as a sailor than a singer.
♪ Now, London is a fine town For sailors ♪
♪ California and back to France, so... ♪
Which would you rather be, the Pilgrims or the Indians?
- Pilgrims. - Why the Pilgrims?
Why do you wanna be the Pilgrims?
'Cause the Pilgrims all land and they turn into wax dolls,
and they're wax dolls for the rest of the universe.
So the Indians.
Well, you know, the Indians, that's true... Well, we're all wax dolls, so...
The first concert will take place in Plymouth...
Uh, where the, uh, Pilgrims stepped off their Mayflower.
We're... as if we're... we're Pilgrims.
Pilgrims in the sense of searchers,
looking for the, uh, kingdom of a nation
with maybe a different intention.
Making America a kingdom of poetry,
a nation of poetry.
Well, look at this. Lookit.
Have you ever heard of Bob Dylan?
- Yeah. - Yeah, I've heard of Bob Dylan, Joan Baez,
Bob Neuwirth.
...performing at Memorial Auditorium. Anybody?
Pass 'em out.
♪ I left Rome ♪
♪ And pulled into Brussels ♪
♪ On a plane ride ♪
♪ So bumpy that I almost cried ♪
♪ Clergymen in uniform ♪
♪ Young girls pullin' muscles ♪
♪ Well, it sure has been ♪
♪ One hell of a ride ♪
♪ Newspapermen ♪
♪ Eating candy, ooh ♪
♪ They had to be held back ♪
♪ By big police ♪
♪ Someday Everything is gonna be different ♪
♪ When I paint that masterpiece ♪
♪ Train wrecks ♪
♪ Running through the back of my memory ♪
♪ When I ran on the hilltop ♪
♪ Following a pack of wild geese ♪
♪ Someday Everything is gonna be beautiful ♪
♪ When I paint that masterpiece ♪
♪ When I paint ♪
♪ That masterpiece ♪
Any idea why he would wear a mask?
Are you being funny?
Well, it was kind of a leading question.
Yeah, okay. Well, get to the point.
We didn't have enough masks on that tour.
We should have had masks for everybody.
When somebody's wearing a mask,
uh, he's gonna tell you the truth.
Uh...
when he's not wearing a mask, it's highly unlikely.
Shocking Blue!
♪ Her weapons were her crystal eyes ♪
♪ Making every man mad ♪
I'd been filming Shocking Blue.
Their song "Venus" was at the top of the charts.
- Wow! - And we needed more footage.
And at the time, I liked psychedelics.
Oh, LSD was my drug of choice.
You know, it was trans... transformative.
And I filmed a lot of newspeople and things from the TV,
like camera right on the TV, like kinescoped,
and I cut these serious things, these speeches, with the rock 'n' roll.
♪ A goddess on a mountaintop ♪
♪ Was burning like a silver flame ♪
♪ Well, I'm your Venus ♪
- ♪ I'm your fire at your desire ♪ - It was brood en spelen, uh...
You know, like, "bread and circus."
I made an indictment of popular culture.
I called it "Burning Like A Silver Flame."
It played the local art film circuit,
uh, and it started to have a life of its own.
Um, later, when I won the Heinrich Greif Award,
America came calling.
Van Dorp,
I hadn't even heard of him before,
but, uh, he seemed like an okay guy.
I liked his film history.
He did some film work at Madame Tussauds Wax Museum.
His idea was to, uh, make this film...
appear to be like old newsreels we used to see at movie theaters...
growing up,
which I thought was a splendid idea.
Van Dorp, I wanted to tell you something.
I thought Sam would be perfect for van Dorp to, uh, collaborate with,
because Sam's got that special knowledge of the underworld
that van Dorp didn't seem to have a clue about.
I think I asked him once, "Sam, how you write all those plays?"
And he said...
"Man," he said,
"it's like I commune with the dead."
I said, "Yeah, yeah,
uh, you'd have to to write plays like that."
And I asked him if he wanted to, uh, write for, uh,
this movie that this guy van Dorp was making.
And he went to meet with van Dorp, and then he came back, and he said, uh...
he didn't know where the guy was coming from,
but if I wanted him to do it, he would.
So, that's how Sam got involved.
I was living in Homestead Valley, California,
running a horse boarding farm.
It was a little bit unclear what... what exactly he wanted me to do.
I was like a screenwriter or writer for hire, you know.
So, sure. So, I joined up.
I was just kind of there for the ride, basically,
and... and as an observer
and trying to make sense of something, you know.
New England was just experiencing the backbone
of that economic fallout,
you know, way back then, it was, you know, desolate...
Uh, really, really difficult economic times, you know.
People suffering behind that, you know.
Rock 'n' roll was some kind of, a...
I don't know, a kind of medicine or something.
Do you have tickets for the concert?
- Yeah. - How come he's coming here?
I know, how come he picked such a small place?
Tickets are on sale at the collis... the little Plymouth auditorium.
Wasn't that the year of the bicentennial, also?
The bicentennial,
particularly in the little towns, you know,
they didn't give a shit, you know.
"What is the bicen..." You know what I mean?
They... They certainly weren't celebrating the... the birth of America. You know?
- We love you, Bobby! - Yeah!
♪ How many roads must a man walk down ♪
♪ Before you call him a man? ♪
♪ How many seas must a white dove sail ♪
♪ Before she sleeps in the sand? ♪
♪ How many times Must the cannonballs fly ♪
♪ Before they're forever banned? ♪
♪ The answer, my friend ♪
♪ Is blowin' in the wind ♪
♪ The answer is blowin' in the wind ♪
It always had this feeling of... of almost a circus atmosphere,
a dog and pony show sort of thing.
It's the first song I ever heard Woody Guthrie sing
on a little radio station.
He was telling a story...
about traveling across the country on freight trains,
and he had a fiddle with him...
in a violin case.
Every time the train would stop,
police would come on and look through, they'd see him with that violin case...
make him open it up,
and look inside.
They was looking for an outlaw...
named Pretty Boy Floyd,
who was also traveling with a violin case.
♪ If you'll gather 'round me, children ♪
♪ A story I will tell About Pretty Boy Floyd, an outlaw ♪
♪ Oklahoma knew him well ♪
I do recall sort of looking over,
from a distance, Jack Elliott's shoulder as he did his solo set.
You know, that was something so new to me, and...
gee, it seemed so authentic,
I had no idea he was, you know, a Jewish dentist's son from Brooklyn.
You know, you could've knocked me over with a feather when I found that out.
Ramblin' Jack! Take a bow, Jack.
I got another friend for you to meet now.
They... They had an entity about them, you know.
It wasn't stardom.
It wasn't people were looking at,
"Oh, there's Dylan and there's Joan Baez."
No, they were looking at a band.
♪ Well, I ride on a mailtrain, baby ♪
♪ Can't buy a thrill ♪
♪ I been up all night, baby ♪
♪ Leanin' on a windowsill ♪
Once again, good night on behalf of the Rolling Thunder Revue.
We thank you for coming. Good night. Go in peace.
And particularly with those songs
that had this kind of saga element about 'em, you know,
it had a rejuvenating effect, I think, you know, it was very exhilarating.
It was a feeling of exhilaration, of... of... of being alive.
It... That sounds corny, but it's true, you know.
Take, uh, Shakespeare, Will.
He grew up in, uh, uh, Stratford-on-Avon,
you know, where the... where these rivers cross,
and it was on the way outskirts of London.
And these troubadours and vagabonds
and carnival people from all over were coming into London to perform.
And they would stop at this crossroads of these rivers.
And as a kid, he's seeing this, and then he writes those fucking plays.
You know?
That's... extraordinary.
You know, that somebody is charged up like that
from something passing through their lives, you know.
- Let me ask you a question. - Sure.
What were you gonna do on Halloween night?
What was I gonna do on Halloween night?
Just get a buzz on.
Nothing else to do.
Yep, just party.
♪ Where have you been My blue-eyed son? ♪
♪ Where have you been My darling young one? ♪
♪ I've stumbled on the side Of twelve misty mountains ♪
♪ Walked and I've crawled On six crooked highways ♪
♪ Been in the middle Of seven sad forests ♪
♪ Been out in front Of a dozen dead oceans ♪
♪ Been ten thousand miles In the mouth of a graveyard ♪
♪ And it's a hard ♪
♪ Well, it's a hard ♪
♪ And it's a hard ♪
♪ Well, it's a hard rain gonna fall ♪
♪ What did you see My blue-eyed son? ♪
♪ What did you see My darling young one? ♪
♪ Saw a newborn baby With wild wolves all around it ♪
♪ I saw a highway of diamonds With nobody on it ♪
♪ Saw a black branch With blood that kept drippin' ♪
♪ Saw a room full of men With their hammers bleedin' ♪
♪ Saw a white ladder Covered in water ♪
♪ Saw ten thousand talkers Whose tongues are all broken ♪
♪ Guns and sharp swords In the hands of young children ♪
♪ And it's a hard ♪
♪ Well, it's a hard ♪
♪ And it's a hard ♪
♪ Oh, it's a hard rain gonna fall ♪
♪ What did you hear My blue-eyed son? ♪
♪ What did you hear My darling young one? ♪
♪ Heard the sound of a thunder That roared out a warnin' ♪
♪ Heard the roar of a wave Could drown the whole world ♪
♪ One person starved I heard many people laughin' ♪
♪ Heard the song of a poet Who died in the gutter ♪
♪ Heard the sound of a clown Crying in the alley ♪
- ♪ And it's a hard ♪ - Yeah!
♪ And it's a hard ♪
♪ Well, it's a hard ♪
♪ And it's a hard rain gonna fall ♪
♪ Who did you meet My blue-eyed son? ♪
♪ Who did you meet My darling young one? ♪
♪ Met a young child Beside a dead pony ♪
♪ Met a white man Who walked a black dog ♪
♪ Met one woman Whose body was burning ♪
♪ Met a young girl She gave me a rainbow ♪
♪ I met one man Wounded in love ♪
♪ Met another man Wounded in hatred ♪
♪ And it's a hard ♪
♪ Well, it's a hard ♪
♪ And it's a hard ♪
♪ And it's a hard rain gonna fall ♪
♪ What'll you do now My blue-eyed son? ♪
♪ What'll you do now My darling young one? ♪
♪ I'm goin' back out When the rain starts a-fallin' ♪
♪ Walk to the depths Of the deepest dark forest ♪
♪ Where the people are many And their hands are all empty ♪
♪ Where the pellets of poison Are flooding their waters ♪
♪ Where the home in the valley Meets the damp, dirty prison ♪
♪ Where the executioner's face Is always well-hidden ♪
♪ Where the hunger is ugly Where souls are forgotten ♪
♪ Where black is the color None is the number ♪
♪ And I'll tell it and think it And speak it and breathe it ♪
♪ Reflect from the mountain So all souls can see it ♪
♪ Then I'll stand on the ocean Until I start sinkin' ♪
♪ But I'll know my song well Before I start singin' ♪
♪ And it's a hard ♪
♪ Well, it's a hard ♪
♪ And it's a hard ♪
♪ It's a hard rain gonna fall ♪
- Hello? - Bob?
- Yeah. - This is Larry.
- Larry, how you doing? - You got a minute?
I gotta do a story in an hour,
and I just need about two or three paragraphs.
- Okay. - Are you up?
Yeah, sort of.
What do you... Why don't you just talk about the music, okay?
What do you wanna know?
I've never seen you so fuckin' great onstage.
I've never seen you so loose. How come?
Jesus Christ, you really got me early in the morning, I can't even think.
Uh...
Well, it's just the element I work best in, you know?
You seen those Italian...
those Italian troupes that go around in Italy,
- those Italian street theaters... - Yeah.
The wagon, the wagon troupes, Commedia dell'arte?
Yeah, right.
This is kind of an extension of that, only musically.
- Music Commedia dell'arte? - Yeah.
Come on, Red!
Riva!
- Jane! - Jane!
Get it, Merty!
If somebody told you Bob Dylan was coming to Providence,
you probably wouldn't believe them, but he is, along with Joan Baez,
Ramblin' Jack Elliott, and Bob Neuwirth,
and it's called the Rolling Thunder Revue at the Providence Civic Center, Tuesday...
You'd book the venues,
make deals with each of the local promoters,
and then you'd show up.
And, you know, you'd have a deal for the gate.
And, you know,
hopefully everything would go out, would go well,
and everybody'd make a little money.
Hey, man, it wasn't your door and you weren't invited.
- Hey, don't yell at me, all right? - Oh, I am yelling at ya.
- Okay. - Go get your cop,
- so you can get some fuckin' help. - Okay.
The overall promoter was a longtime friend of Bob's
and a fishmonger.
I mean, he never had managed a tour before,
let alone one of this size.
It's bad for your, uh, high blood pressure.
- Yeah, okay. - Bad for your high blood pressure.
- Read him some poetry, Allen. - Anything you wanna say...
So he was out of his element and underprepared,
and he wasn't very well-liked on the tour.
Then tell him the ushers left. Tell him... Tell him we're framingit.
- Hi, Barry. - Nice.
This guy, Barry Imhoff, was his second-in-command,
and he'd worked for Bill Graham for years,
but just prior to Rolling Thunder
had got out on his own and started Zebra Productions.
And this was one of, you know, if not exactly, his first tour.
What kind of jobs would the promoter do?
I did whatever needed to get done.
So one day, you're delivering pizza to the band,
and the next day,
I'm... got a bag full of $15,000,
and I'm walking through a parking lot looking over my shoulder,
thinking everybody knows exactly what I'm doing.
Well, you did what you had to do. Some things we don't talk about.
My mom wanted to go see this tour.
Now, you know, nobody wants to go to a concert with their mom.
Especially when they're 19 years old.
So, rebelliously, I... I wore a Kiss T-shirt.
So, I don't know which one of us was more embarrassed,
whether it was me or my mom.
And we went to this concert.
We're trying to get in,
and the guy's giving us kind of a hard time
and looking at our tickets and the thing, and we can't get in...
And then, this guy comes walking up,
and he doesn't have tickets, and he tries to get in.
And the cop at the door is not letting him in,
and not letting him in.
And so, finally, like, a bunch of people come out,
and they get Bob, and Bob turns around and he's like...
And I'm just like this... And my mom's like, "Come on."
And I don't wanna, "come on,"
but my mother pushes us through, and so we go in with Bob, and, um...
Bob turned around and he saw my shirt,
and he was like,
"Do you like them?"
And then I realized he wanted to talk about Kiss.
I think I was trying to... to sound like I was...
smart, and so I started saying,
"Well, you know, I think that they paint their faces in this Kabuki style."
And he said,
"Oh, I bet Okuni never spit blood into the audience."
And I was like, "Okuni?"
And he's like, "Izumo no Okuni."
Oh, and that's, you know,
it's one of the guys who started, uh, Kabuki.
So...
♪ I wanna rock and roll all night ♪
♪ And party every day ♪
♪ I wanna rock and roll all night ♪
♪ And party every day ♪
♪ I wanna rock and roll all night ♪
I can't hear you!
♪ And party every day ♪
♪ I wanna rock and roll... ♪
Scarlet Rivera was some piece of work.
Most people'd kind of stay away from Scarlet, but, uh, not me.
Her boyfriend at the time was the leader of Kiss.
And she took me over to Queens to see them play.
They were playing in a small club. They had face paint on,
and I thought that was kind of interesting.
I kind of filed that away somewhere.
Clap your hands!
♪ I wanna rock and roll all night ♪
Yeah, I remember a lot of things. They... They said I had a wonderful time.
I think I did.
They said every time we used to do any interviews,
all they wanted to know was, "Ronnie, we wanna hear about the orgies."
I said, "Orgies?"
I said, "God damn, we never had any orgies. That sounds nasty as hell."
I said, "We might have had 14 or 15 people in love a time or two, but no orgies."
Look who's here.
Yo, man.
Well, Ronnie Hawkins, now,
he looked like a shitkicker, but he spoke with the wisdom of a sage.
He was like a...
a...
gladiator or something...
that wrestled and raced
in, uh, in... in some nondescript Roman arena.
Uh...
you expected Ronnie to, uh, to wear a toga...
instead of that ratty cowboy hat.
- Remember Scarlet Rivera? - Oh, yeah.
She fell in love with my rhythm man
from my band, Scarlet did.
Yeah, they put on some interesting shows there, up there in my room.
I think I narrated a couple of 'em. I'm not sure.
But, uh, yeah, she was something else... wore a sword.
She had... She wore a sword everywhere she went,
that girl, so I didn't...
I was a little bit uneasy about trying to slip her out,
'cause, boy, if you didn't satisfy her, she's liable to stab you.
She was unusual.
I went to her room once, and there was a box of stuff.
Like, chains and mirrors...
candelabras and...
She had swords.
She had a snake.
Just, uh...
many things in... in a trunk.
And, uh, that told me more about her than anything she had to say.
She didn't say much.
But she didn't have to.
- What's that? - This? This is my friend.
He keeps me company while I play.
He's playing the dance beyond his limits.
Something that most people would say is impossible.
But artists like to challenge the impossible, I guess.
That's why we wear the makeup we wear, I guess, too.
It's a striking image you have onstage.
Mr. Tambourine Man gives us the opportunity
to be whoever we wish to be.
This, uh, young, beautiful, young lady over here is Scarlet.
She plays with us, too.
I'd been at the high holy gypsy holiday at Saintes-Maries-de-la-Mer,
South of France.
It happens to be on my birthday, so it was like going home.
Manitas de Plata was there,
and he played all night along the campfire.
I mean, he was fantastic.
And, uh, I stayed up till dawn just listening to him play.
Some time after that, couldn't have been more than a week,
that song came to me in a dream.
♪ Your breath is sweet ♪
♪ Your eyes are like Two jewels in the sky ♪
♪ Your back is straight Your hair is smooth ♪
♪ On the pillow where you lie ♪
♪ But I don't sense affection ♪
♪ No gratitude or love ♪
♪ Your loyalty is not to me ♪
♪ But to the stars above ♪
♪ One more cup of coffee for the road ♪
♪ One more cup of coffee 'fore I go ♪
♪ To the valley below ♪
♪ Your daddy, he's an outlaw ♪
♪ And a wanderer by trade ♪
♪ He'll teach you how to pick and choose ♪
♪ And how to throw the blade ♪
♪ He oversees his kingdom ♪
♪ So no stranger does intrude ♪
♪ His voice, it trembles as he calls out ♪
♪ For another plate of food ♪
♪ One more cup of coffee for the road ♪
♪ One more cup of coffee 'fore I go ♪
♪ To the valley below ♪
♪ Your sister sees the future ♪
♪ Like your mama and yourself ♪
♪ You've never learned to read or write ♪
♪ There's no books upon your shelf ♪
♪ And your pleasure knows no limits ♪
♪ Your voice is like a meadowlark ♪
♪ But your heart is like an ocean ♪
♪ Mysterious and dark ♪
♪ One more cup of coffee for the road ♪
♪ One more cup of coffee 'fore I go ♪
♪ To the valley below ♪
Are you used to going to rock shows?
No, it's one of the very few I've seen.
I finally realized, after last night, I've been missing an awful lot.
I thought it was the most unusual occurrence.
I never... I never noticed...
as a... as a part of an audience,
I never paid attention to a...
to a response between an audience and people on the stage,
performers onstage.
That, to me, was like a show all by itself.
It was like one battery charging another.
And...
you not only could feel the vibes, you could... you could almost see them.
There was a...
a love affair between the performers and the audience.
Uh, I was thinking about the forces
that draw people together.
The magnetism that makes the unit that's now formed as Rolling Thunder.
And, uh...
to me, the future already exists.
For some people, maybe for everyone.
It's just a matter of tuning yourself to it.
"I saw the best minds of my generation destroyed by madness,
starving hysterical naked,
dragging themselves through the negro streets at dawn
looking for an angry fix..."
Allen Ginsberg was a saintlike figure.
It was like having a... kinda like a father figure.
He was always very sober.
No, Allen Ginsberg was anything but a father figure.
He was definitely not a father figure.
Allen Ginsberg,
a guy I really... I really miss, of the ones that are gone.
We became very friendly, I mean, you know, he... he...
I wasn't a bad-looking, you know, little 19-year-old at the time,
and he had a thing for straight,
talented...
um...
teenage boys.
So, that probably added to it, I suppose.
One thing people don't know about Ginsberg
is that he was an incredible dancer.
Um... who...
he would just do these steps that were so unusual and exciting.
You know, and he'd always have a good dance partner, too.
Uh, usually somebody from the tour, somebody we'd pick up along the way.
Uh... He danced a lot, Ginsberg.
"& shaman he swings a skinny leg to the sky
& shaman he desires you be there watching
shaman don't care about eating now
he's got his paint on he's ready for jive
& shaman's going to sway & gesture in space
& shaman's shouting yeah for you & singing your sorrow
shaman's not faithful except to you
shaman does it for you you know all this
shaman's got his eyes on the violin."
There was this yearning, Allen's yearning,
to either be Bob or...
have Bob love him more.
And I remember Bob saying,
"Just go out and sing on the street corners."
So Allen was essentially doing that.
♪ Ah... ♪
Seeing Ginsberg was like going to see the Oracle of Delphi.
He didn't care about material wealth or political power.
He was his own kind of king.
But... he wanted to play music.
He had already achieved what any national poet
could hope to achieve.
"I saw the best minds of my generation destroyed by madness."
Very few poets have done that.
Robert Frost, maybe.
"Promises to keep, miles to go before I sleep."
Whitman said, "I am large, I contain multitudes."
We still remember those lines today.
Today's poets don't reach into the public consciousness that way.
So it was remarkable that Allen had actually broken through.
Nowadays, lines that people remember are lines from songs, lyrics from songs...
"Your cheatin' heart will make you weep."
"Don't change your hair for me, not if you care for me."
"I'm in the mood for love." "What a difference a day makes."
"Ain't misbehavin'."
Allen wanted his lines to be remembered like that,
but he was a poet.
He wasn't a songwriter.
By 1970 through 1975,
all of the, uh, heroes of song and poetry
were out on their own,
uh...
in the solitude...
doing their art.
The people that were going to die or drink themselves to death,
as many great artists did, or get strung out...
uh, went down to... uh...
She'ol, as Kerouac did,
105 miles from this ocean, buried in Lowell.
But that's where I got all my poetry, out of Mexico City Blues.
You ever read this?
- Sure. - This book...
- This is my favorite. - Yeah, I... I read this. Uh...
My good friend Dave Whitaker gave me a copy of this book.
- When? - Uh, in Minneapolis in 1959.
Uh-huh.
I remember when David gave me this book, it just blew a hole in my mind.
Really?
Yeah. "What's been buried in the grave?
Dust.
- Perfect..." - "Perfect dust."
"Perfect dust in time."
He wrote a lot about being dead.
"Once I went to a movie At midnight, 1940,
Mice and Men, the name of it.
The Red Block Boxcars Rolling by
Yessir
life finally gets tired of living -
On both occasions I had wild Face looking into lights
Of streets where phantoms
Hastened out of sight Into Memorial cello time."
Oh, yeah.
Here's one. "Dead and don't know it,
Living and do.
The living have a dead idea.
A person is a living idea;
after death, a dead idea.
When rock becomes air..."
"I will be there."
- He's here. - Yeah, this is where he is.
- Yeah. So rock has become air. - Yeah.
- Let's sit down a minute, relax. - Well, this is...
- Yes, it's not every day... - Kerouac, he honored life.
I had to read everything again, that Kerouac wrote.
Not that I did, but I thought about it differently.
All of a sudden, On the Road,
he was talking about the road of life.
"Strange now to think of you,
gone without corsets and eyes,
while I walk on the sunny pavement
of Greenwich Village,
downtown Manhattan,
clear winter noon,
and I've been up all night talking,
talking,
reading the Kaddish aloud,
listening to Ray Charles
blues shout blind on the phonograph
The rhythm, the rhythm
and your memory in my head..." "like a poem in the dark...
escaped back to Oblivion...
No more to say,
and nothing to weep for but the Beings in the Dream,
trapped in its disappearance,
sighing,
screaming with it,
buying and selling pieces of phantom,
laughing and weeping over mahjong,
worshipping each other,
worshipping the God included in it all...
longing or inevitability?
while it lasts, a Vision...
Death, stay thy phantoms!
O mother what have I left out
O mother what have I forgotten
O mother farewell
with a long black shoe
farewell with Communist Party
and a broken stocking
farewell with six dark hairs
on the wen of your breast
farewell with your old dress
and a long black beard around the vagina
with your eyes with your eyes of Russia
with your eyes of no money
with your eyes of Aunt Elanor
with your eyes of shock
with your eyes of lobotomy
with your eyes of divorce with your eyes of stroke
with your eyes alone
with your eyes
with your death full of flowers."
♪ She walks alone Through the city blocks ♪
♪ Oh, hears the tickin' of the clocks ♪
♪ Hunts for her by the waterfront docks ♪
♪ Where the sailors all come in ♪
♪ Maybe he'll see her there once again ♪
♪ How long must he wait? ♪
♪ One more time For a simple twist of fate ♪
Tell me a bit about the spirit of the tour.
- 'Cause you're doing new songs, right? - Yeah.
And a lot of people in the audience expected the old songs.
But Ratso, you know, that's the first...
- one of the first rules... - What's that?
The expectations, you know?
If you have big expectations, you're gonna be let down.
You can't have any expectations.
But people do have preconceptions.
That's their problem, Ratso. That's their own problem.
We can't account for everybody who's walking around, you know?
Like having expectations.
I mean, who gives a shit?
Yeah.
♪ They sat together in the park ♪
♪ As the evening sky got dark ♪
♪ She looked at him and he felt a spark ♪
♪ Tingle to his bones ♪
♪ 'Twas then he felt alone ♪
♪ And he wished he'd gone straight ♪
♪ And watched out For a simple twist of fate ♪
♪ They walked along by the old canal ♪
♪ A little confused, I remember well ♪
♪ And stopped into a strange hotel ♪
♪ With a neon burnin' bright ♪
♪ He felt the heat of the night ♪
♪ Hit him like a freight train ♪
♪ Moving with a simple twist of fate ♪
♪ A saxophone someplace softly played ♪
♪ As she was walkin' on by the arcade ♪
♪ She heard the melody rise and fade ♪
♪ The sun was coming up ♪
♪ She dropped a coin into the cup ♪
♪ Of a blind man at the gate ♪
♪ And forgot about A simple twist of fate ♪
♪ He woke up, she was gone ♪
♪ He didn't see nothing but the dawn ♪
♪ He got out of bed And put his clothes back on ♪
♪ Pushed back the blinds ♪
♪ Found a note she'd left behind ♪
♪ To which he just could not relate ♪
♪ All about a simple twist of fate ♪
♪ He hears the ticking of the clocks ♪
♪ And walks alone Through the city blocks ♪
♪ Hunts her down by the waterfront docks ♪
♪ Where the sailors all roll in ♪
♪ Maybe he'll spot her once again ♪
♪ How long must he wait? ♪
♪ One more time For a simple twist of fate ♪
♪ People tell me it's a crime ♪
♪ To know too much for too long a time ♪
♪ She should've caught me in my prime ♪
♪ She would've stayed with me ♪
♪ Instead I'm going off to sea ♪
♪ And leaving me to meditate ♪
♪ Upon that simple twist of fate ♪
I shall resign the presidency effective at noon tomorrow.
Vice President Ford will be sworn in as president
at that hour in this office.
♪ I dreamed I saw Saint Augustine ♪
♪ Alive as you or me... ♪
Thomas Jefferson said, "The people...
are the only sure reliance for the preservation of our liberty."
♪ With a blanket underneath his arm ♪
♪ And a coat of solid gold... ♪
Abraham Lincoln renewed this American article of faith
asking, "Is there any better way or equal hope in the world?"
Go!
Everybody get out of the way, now!
Get down!
Get out of the way!
♪ Come out ye gifted kings and queens... ♪
We've got too many people who are knocking every institution,
including the Congress, the president, the flag,
everything.
I think it's time to stand up and say,
"Well, we believe in these institutions, and we believe in America."
And I think America ought to sing a little bit.
♪...accordingly ♪
♪ And know you're not alone ♪
Now, we're talking about Bob Dylan the man,
that's who we're talking about, the message he preaches when he sings...
- You can't use microscopes on everything. - The happiness...
You're not using microscopes.
- You can't use a scalpel that way. - You're using the message.
I thought it was sort of depressing...
that people would stand in line for two days to see a man.
It just so... shows...
they have that need for something or somebody to...
bring salvation or something. You know?
But I did it, too.
I don't know.
About five in the afternoon, the day before the show, right?
- Yeah. - You were there,
you'd been there for a couple of days, you hit on me right away.
You said you wanted this button, right?
Thought I was Dylan or some shit like that.
- Yeah, right. Mm-hmm. - Yeah.
A lot of people think you are, Larry.
Well, it's pretty obvious.
Take your glasses off for a minute.
- I'm not him. - Well, anyways...
That little shit Ratso, he was the worst.
He dressed like Dylan, he tried to talk like Dylan,
always trying to ingratiate himself.
He thought he was Hunter Thompson
just because he was writing for Rolling Stone.
He didn't want anyone else with vision around.
Did he wind up causing problems for you?
Please.
Does the cockroach really cause problems for the house?
No, it's just a nuisance.
Van Dorp was an unusual guy.
He's one of those kind of people who's trying to... just needs an enemy.
And...
uh, he was trying to make enemies where there weren't any,
and, uh, he... he was...
he was successful at that.
He... He angered a lot... lots of people, especially in catering.
He would eat two or three, uh, meals
that really... really were for somebody else.
So, he ate more than he was supposed to,
and I think... and I think he...
...uh, I think he stuck his nose in places it might've should not have been.
He was also a very paranoid person.
Complained to people that his room was bugged.
Uh, which, you know, McGuinn was on that tour,
and McGuinn who at that point was into, uh, very sophisticated electronics.
So I'm not saying it wasn't bugged but...
but I'm not saying that it was bugged,
because I don't know that for a fact.
All tickets are $8.50 a ticket.
What were the audiences like...
that you played to?
Well, they would all be...
hysterically happy.
So, I mean, you can't really judge much
from saying, "What would the audiences be like?"
They would all be people who would've slit each other's throats to get there.
What a lovely couple!
- Don't make myths. A couple of what? - A couple of what?
♪ They say ev'rything can be replaced ♪
♪ That ev'ry distance is not near ♪
♪ So I remember ev'ry face ♪
♪ Of ev'ry man who put me here ♪
Joan Baez and me could sing anything.
We could sing together in our sleep.
As a matter of fact,
lot of times when I was sleeping, I'd hear her voice.
♪ Yonder down here in this lonely crowd ♪
♪ Is a man who swears he's not to blame ♪
♪ All day long I hear him shouting loud ♪
♪ Crying out that he been framed ♪
♪ I see my light... ♪
Joan was so courageous.
Self-disciplined.
When I first met her, it seemed like she'd come down to Earth from a meteorite.
And she's never changed.
She always seems like she's just come down from a meteorite.
You had no reservations about going on tour?
Well...
Sure.
I mean...
I think it probably sounded like... fun, but I also had experienced Dylan,
and, you know, how much fun that can be on any tour or not.
So, um...
But I think, know... knowing that it was gonna be a lot of people,
and I was gonna have my own family with me...
It sounded exciting, you know.
I had my own freedom...
to sing and dance in a way that I didn't do on my own stage.
Maybe there wasn't enough for her to do
and she'd begin to go a little stir-crazy.
Started doing, uh...
boogaloo and hanging out with people maybe she shouldn't be hanging out with,
and, um...
Ugh.
I don't know what happened.
Boy, sitting right next to Bob Dylan, man. Whew.
I got a light if you got,
One time, I got all dressed up as Bob,
which I would do periodically.
I used to put these little beard markings all over and have a mustache on.
And then I'd put his hat on
and some whiteface.
♪ All the time you dress so fine ♪
♪ Threw the bums a dime in your prime... ♪
I walked over with nobody really paying attention,
and I'd be Bob.
And there was this table of, like, food and catering and coffee,
and Louie was there, and I said...
"Handsome, give me some coffee."
Instantly, people got me some coffee like that.
"D'you want this? D'you want this? You want milk? Do you want sugar?"
And I just had in my hand, going like that,
and they treated me the way they treat Bob.
"D'you want this? D'you want that? What can we do?"
It was amazing.
It was amazing until finally I said something like,
"Oh, for Christ sake, Louie." And then he realized.
Oh, yeah, and I had a little wig on with my hair coming out underneath it.
Terrible.
It's like the court of Henry VIII or something, you know?
Who's Anne Boleyn, you know? Which one is gonna get the ax, you know?
You know what I mean? You know, there's that kind of dynamic.
And people are maneuvering to get closer,
and then there are the people who are using you to maneuver.
David Mansfield wanted to sing a song with me, uh...
Ugh. God.
That, uh, a drummer did.
I didn't see what the point of it all was.
- What does makeup do for you? - I don't know.
Just hides, you know, the ugliness a little bit.
Everyone, of course, you know, wanted their shot,
wanted their time in the sun.
But we all know that, you know, you have to...
give for the good of the show.
And it was such an honor to be there,
so that was no problem.
Who were the people you were closest with on the tour?
I know this sounds funny, but I felt close to Bob.
I just always felt close to him from the moment I met him.
Um, I'm sure many people that feel that way.
Um...
I know Mick Ronson told me, however, when I said, um...
you know, "Don't you love Bob?" and he said, "I don't know.
He's never spoken to me."
Um, and then once we were in Massachusetts,
and people were about to arrive.
I don't know who they were, but not our little group.
Bob and I were alone in the basement, and Bob said, "Ronee, help."
And I said, "Help what?"
And... And I felt so bad about that afterwards because I didn't mean to be...
cruel or thoughtless to Bob, but I always thought, you know,
I had to treat him just like a regular person
if I were going to be friends with him.
But later on, I understood a little more what he might be asking help for.
What was he asking help for?
I think the onslaught of strangers.
Hello, take my picture, please!
Hiya, man.
I was in the park with another one of my modeling jobs.
Of course, the whole park is full of everybody doing
whatever they're doing, and suddenly I hear, "Hey, Kiss,"
and I'm just, of course, mortified.
And then I realize...
that it's him.
So, of course, I'm even more mortified.
I think I met her with her mother.
She was a nice girl.
Uh...
She was so young, anyway, you know.
But she seemed old for her age.
Everybody wants to be a movie star...
don't they?
But, you know, when you live in the middle of nowhere,
when you tell somebody you wanna be a movie star, they think you're...
insane.
She, uh, used to tell me,
uh, someday she's going to be a famous actress.
Uh, okay.
A couple of days later he said, um...
"You know, hey...
how about if you just come on the road with us?"
And I thought, "And do what?"
"You know, you could help out with the costumes
and help out backstage and stuff."
- "Just Like a Woman." - What?
- "Just Like a Woman"? - Yeah!
- Do we know that song? - I don't know, we could fake it.
It was one of the first shows.
- I was backstage. - ...we'll try it.
Joan Baez had asked me to iron her shirt.
A second later I hear, "Hey... Sharon."
And there was this, um, really decrepit old piano
shoved off to the side, and Bob was kinda hunched over it.
And he gives me that... that look.
He's like, "I wrote a song about you."
♪ Nobody feels any pain ♪
♪ Tonight as I stand inside the rain ♪
And then he gets to the line...
♪ And she makes love just like a woman ♪
♪ But she breaks ♪
♪ Just like a little girl ♪
I just broke out crying. You know? Full-on tears.
I get... I think T Bone's the one who told me that the song was...
ten years old.
"Just Like a Woman."
Yeah!
What's just like a woman?
Nothin' like a woman.
Do a protest song!
Yeah, here's the one for you.
♪ Oh, sister, when I come To lie in your arms ♪
♪ You should not treat me Like a stranger ♪
♪ Our Father would not like The way that you act ♪
♪ And you must realize the danger ♪
♪ Oh, sister, am I not a brother to you ♪
♪ And one deserving of affection? ♪
♪ And is our purpose not the same On this earth ♪
♪ To love and follow His direction? ♪
♪ We grew up together ♪
♪ From the cradle to the grave ♪
♪ We died and were reborn ♪
♪ And then mysteriously saved ♪
♪ Oh, sister, when I come To knock on your door ♪
♪ Don't turn away, you'll create sorrow ♪
♪ Time is an ocean But it ends at the shore ♪
♪ You may not see me tomorrow ♪
Bob Dylan for president!
President of what?
Was he in a special mode of singing at that time?
Was he different than you'd seen him before?
It was... There was a Rolling Thunder energy.
That was his invention, you know, and all these people showed up.
So, yeah.
- What do you got, Larry? - The tour was very open-ended,
so whatever city they went to,
if there was a local friend and musician,
there would be a slot for them to come up and play.
For example, uh, in Connecticut, Joni Mitchell...
came up, did a couple of songs,
and loved it so much that she stayed on for the rest of the tour.
She just became part of the... this experience.
How did you two end up on the road?
- I don't know... - I came through Allen.
She came through Allen Ginsberg.
Um... I had finished a project and...
was, you know,
in a kind of a postnatal state
and wanted to come and see a concert,
and, uh, got sucked into it.
You know, just shelved everything that...
Everything else seemed, uh, minorly important
compared to this, like, as an experience,
and an experiment in communal existence. You know?
What do you think?
I think you've gotta come on the stage right now.
Okay, I'm coming.
♪ Ah ♪
Some days, I'd see it as this kind of allegorical thing
or as this group of pilgrims on a kind of journey and quest.
Of course, you... you know, you... the deal is you find yourself back home,
but you have to take this whole journey.
And then when you open it up to, you know, here you are in America,
and... and all the things that Bob seemed to care about
in terms of these other... the... the folk culture
is getting thrown in there.
And that's another weave. This sort of...
This... This American yearning for, I don't know, redemption.
♪...circle be unbroken ♪
♪ By and by, Lord, by and by ♪
♪ There's a better... ♪
Columbus didn't discover America. There were people here already.
Even though they stole most everything they could get their hands on.
Our land, children, women, whatever, they took it.
Left us very poor people.
A lot of our people homeless in our own country.
But the best things of all,
that they had no value,
was our way of life.
It's beautiful music when that thunder rolls.
And that's the way I got my name.
I used to scream like a little eagle is what they told me.
Even when I was a baby in diapers, run right out in the storm.
Yeah, I love it.
And that lightning flash, there's a lot of power in it, I tell you.
This tour was named after Chief Rolling Thunder.
So, it made sense that we go to the Tuscarora Indian Reservation and...
and play.
We're gonna let our guests get their food.
I was just told it's gonna be cafeteria style.
Bob was seated right across the table from me,
and he said,
"You remember Peter's song about Ira Hayes?"
And even today, there are things to write about...
for a cowboy, and I'm a cowboy.
An Indian, and I'm part Indian.
Or a human being.
This is a song about a human being,
who is also an Indian.
And if you don't remember his name,
I think you may after this song.
It's called Ira Hayes.
- Where would you want me to stand? - Anywhere you want. It'll be all right.
♪ Come gather 'round me, people And a story I will tell ♪
♪ About Ira Hayes, an Indian You should remember well ♪
♪ From the tribe of Pima Indians A proud and a peaceful band ♪
♪ They farmed the Phoenix Valley In the Arizona land ♪
♪ Down their ditches for a thousand years The running water rushed ♪
♪ Till the white man Stole the water rights ♪
♪ And the running water hushed ♪
♪ Now Ira's folks were hungry And their farms grew crops of weeds ♪
♪ But when war came, Ira volunteered And forgot the white man's greed ♪
♪ Now they started up Iwo Jima hill With two hundred and fifty men ♪
♪ But only twenty-seven lived To walk back down that hill again ♪
♪ And when the fight was over And Old Glory raised ♪
♪ One of the men that held it high Was the Indian Ira Hayes ♪
♪ Call him drunken Ira Hayes ♪
♪ He won't answer anymore ♪
♪ Not the whiskey-drinkin' Indian ♪
♪ Or the Marine that went to war ♪
♪ Call him drunken Ira Hayes ♪
♪ He won't answer anymore ♪
♪ Not the whiskey-drinkin' Indian ♪
♪ Or the Marine that went to war ♪
This is a United States diplomatic medal.
It has... It has, uh...
an Indian and the first diplomatic team of... of the United States,
was given in Philadelphia on July the 4th, 1776.
Also, been told that there's a possibility
that these could be the same beads,
these, uh, larger ones, that Peter Minuit
traded the... our people for Manhattan Island.
Will you accept this?
Thanks for everything. What do you say, folks?
But somewhere along the line,
something has failed, and...
we hope that this country can straighten out before too long,
because there are many things that's going to happen to shape
not only this country but the world.
Bob.
What you... You guys still here?
Can I ask just one question?
♪ William Zanzinger Killed poor Hattie Carroll ♪
♪ With a cane that he twirled Round his diamond ring finger ♪
♪ At a Baltimore hotel Society gath'rin' ♪
♪ And the cops were called in And his weapon took from him ♪
♪ As they rode him in custody Down to the station ♪
♪ And booked William Zanzinger For first-degree murder ♪
♪ Yes, and you who philosophize disgrace ♪
♪ And criticize all fear ♪
♪ Take the rag away from your face ♪
♪ Now ain't the time for your tears ♪
Everything is forgiven whenever I would see Bob sing.
It is so...
the charisma...
that he has, I've never seen anywhere,
before or since.
And the beauty of those songs...
I don't.
Jack Kerouac, uh, writes like ticker tape.
I used to see you write like ticker tape.
I used to feed you salad and red wine while you wrote like ticker tape.
Yeah, I remember.
Brilliant stuff. William Zanzinger.
Overlooking the Pacific.
The wild Pacific Ocean in Big Sur, right?
- William Zanzinger. - Where was that written?
"Hattie Carroll." One of the best songs I think you ever wrote.
I think it's one of the best songs you sing.
Thank you. How come you take it on the stage now?
'Cause you won't sing it.
Oh, Bob.
Sure, I will.
Just 'cause I screwed up the words.
- Well, it really... - How do you like my dress?
...displeases me that you... that you went off and got married
and... and, uh...
You went off and got married first and didn't tell me.
Yeah, but...
- You should have told me or something. - But I married the woman I loved.
I know, that's true.
That's true. And I married the man I thought I loved.
See, that's what thought has to do with it.
Thought will fuck you up.
You're right. I agree with that.
See, it's heart, it's not... it's not head.
♪ Hattie Carroll was A maid of the kitchen ♪
♪ She was fifty-one years old And gave birth to ten children ♪
♪ She cleaned up the dishes Hauled out the garbage ♪
♪ And never sat once At the head of the table ♪
♪ She just cleaned up All the food from the table ♪
♪ And emptied the ash On a whole other level ♪
♪ Got killed by a blow Lay slain by a cane ♪
♪ That sailed through the air And came down through the room ♪
♪ Doomed and determined To destroy all the gentle ♪
♪ And she never done nothing To William Zanzinger ♪
♪ Yes, and you who philosophize disgrace And criticize all fears ♪
♪ Take the rag away from your face ♪
♪ Now ain't the time for your tears ♪
♪ In the courtroom of honor The judge pounded his gavel ♪
♪ To show that all's equal And that the courts are on the level ♪
♪ That the strings in the books Ain't pulled and persuaded ♪
♪ And that even the nobles Get properly handled ♪
♪ Once that the cops Have chased after and caught 'em ♪
♪ That the ladder of law Has no top and no bottom ♪
♪ Stared at the person Who killed for no reason ♪
♪ Who just happened to be feelin' That way without warnin' ♪
♪ And he spoke through his cloak So deep and distinguished ♪
♪ Handed out strongly For penalty and repentance ♪
♪ William Zanzinger With a six-month sentence ♪
♪ Yes, and you who philosophize disgrace ♪
♪ And criticize all fear ♪
♪ Bury the rag deep in your face ♪
♪ Now is the time for your tears ♪
♪ But sleep won't come ♪
♪ The whole night through ♪
♪ Your cheatin' heart ♪
♪ Will tell on you ♪
♪ You'll walk the floor ♪
♪ And shout my name ♪
The hours are creeping down.
- We got to get the story. - I'm getting it!
I'm only up all fuckin' night when the hours are creeping down.
Well, I mean, you had two fuckin' weeks, Larry.
To do what?
- To get a story, instead of... - I gave you a story, I gave you...
That had a lot of fuckin' holes in it.
- Well, but you're a bureaucrat. - Oh, bullshit.
- Where do you get that crap? - You ask...
You are a bureaucrat. You ask me fuckin'...
uh, Wall Street Journal questions.
- Bullshit. - Those are the questions...
Everybody in the fuckin' country wants to know...
You're asking me music business questions, man.
That's part of it, isn't it?
But that's not what the kids wanna read.
- How do you know? - I know kids, man! I ask them.
♪...and call my name ♪
Rolling Stone magazine was interested in the economics,
how much are these people getting paid...
You know, why are they playing bigger halls as the tour went on?
Those were the kind of questions they were asking,
and I didn't give a shit about that.
I mean, what I was concerned with was, you know, chronicling this...
this, uh, cultural event.
- Can I offer you a beer? - Sure.
- There we go. - Thank you.
There ain't too many Medicis around these days,
and whether you're out on the road with a lot of people,
or you're making a movie,
or any kind of creative endeavor that takes resources,
you need money.
And you gotta go to somebody who believes
that they're gonna get their money back and maybe a little more.
So, yeah, there's always this natural tension
between art and commerce.
Okay, how 'bout... We gotta cut one of Jack's.
- He says to cut "Muleskinner." - He wants to cut "Muleskinner."
All right. Okay.
I'll talk to Bob about this.
- All right, Allen's gonna do something? - Five minutes. Very brief.
You got a whole different audience. Did you look at those people?
They're not familiar with Dylan or Baez or anybody else.
Right.
If you go up and spill poetry for any length of time,
they're gonna be, you know, gone, you know?
Make it two minutes, Allen.
Two minutes is plenty, I'm telling you.
- Okay. - What about more cuts?
- Two minutes. - We're still cutting.
The show was originally three hours.
Ginsberg, who appeared in the show originally,
there was not enough time for him to perform during the show,
so his section was cut.
He and Peter Orlovsky became the baggage handlers.
We would put our bags outside the door, and he would take them every day.
You're a fuckin' luggage handler?
- God, yeah, and I give massages sometimes. - You're a poet!
I make myself useful around, on the, uh...
Uh... helping Chris with the newsletter and putting out the newsletter.
- You do errands? - Errands, right.
I can't believe this shit.
What kind of tour is this? You're a fuckin' great poet, Peter.
I'm learning... Been practicing banjo, and I've been sitting every morning...
Uh, tomorrow morning, we're gonna sit with Allen for one hour.
- To do what? - After we wake up, sit and meditate.
At a party at Gordon Lightfoot's house,
Toronto, Canada.
Joni Mitchell, she would go out and do her new songs.
She wouldn't do any hits.
And the audience reaction was a little sort of muted
for these new songs,
as it usually is when artists try to do new songs.
And I remember, she came off and she said,
"McGuinn, I don't know why I'm so scared out there. I just don't..."
I said, "You're just doing new songs.
You ought to do something that they recognize,
and then they'll, you know, loosen up."
She said, "No, no, I... I can't do that. I think that's a bad idea."
I admired her for her courage to do the new stuff only.
Joni wrote this song about this tour,
and on this tour, and for this tour.
Okay, D-minor now.
Yeah, some dissonance.
I had been loudly proclaiming that my three favorite male songwriters
were Bob Dylan, Leonard Cohen, and Kinky Friedman.
So, Jonistarted interrogating me backstage one day, saying,
"What do you mean, male?
Why do you make that distinction, male songwriters?
I mean, what about my stuff?
I mean, don't you characterize my stuff, like, you know,
in the same league as Bob and Leonard Cohen?"
And we got into this long discussion about,
well, the male versus female perspective, and anima-animus,
and, you know, male-female dynamic, and everything, you know.
But it became this long, drawn-out confrontation,
and we bonded on that.
♪ No regrets, Coyote ♪
♪ We just come from such different sets Of circumstance ♪
♪ I'm up all night in the studios ♪
♪ And you're up early on your ranch ♪
♪ Brushing out a broodmare's tail ♪
♪ While the sun is ascending ♪
♪ And I'll just be getting home With my reel-to-reel ♪
♪ There's no comprehending ♪
♪ Just how close To the bone and the skin ♪
♪ And the eyes and the lips you can get ♪
♪ And still feel so alone ♪
♪ And still feel related ♪
♪ Like stations in a relay ♪
♪ You're not a hit-and-run driver No, no ♪
♪ Racing away ♪
♪ You just picked up a hitcher ♪
♪ A prisoner of the white lines On the freeway ♪
♪ We saw a farmhouse burning down ♪
♪ In the middle of nowhere In the middle of the night ♪
♪ And we rolled right past that tragedy ♪
♪ Till we came to some roadside lights ♪
♪ And a local band was playing ♪
♪ Locals were mincin' And shakin' on the floor ♪
♪ The next thing I know ♪
♪ That Coyote's at my door ♪
♪ And he pins me in a corner And he won't take no ♪
♪ He drags me out on the dance floor ♪
♪ And we're dancin' close and slow ♪
♪ He's got a woman at home ♪
♪ One for the night And now he wants one for the day ♪
♪ Oh, why'd you have to get so drunk And lead me on that way? ♪
♪ You just picked up a hitcher ♪
♪ A prisoner of the white lines And the freeway ♪
Let's call Hopper, man.
Fuck yeah. Let me change channels.
Why do you have that?
What are you on, channel 31?
- Uh, give me, uh... - Okay.
Okay.
♪ I took my troubles Down to Madame Rue ♪
♪ You know that gypsy With the gold-capped tooth ♪
♪ She's got a pad Down on Thirty-Fourth and Vine ♪
♪ Sellin' little bottles Of Love Potion Number Nine ♪
What poetry is,
the natural object, where we are now,
is always adequate symbol,
so you don't have to invent romantic myths,
diamond dancers on oceansides.
The scratching of the pen or the noise in the back of the bar
is part of the music.
♪ She bent down, turned around And gave me a wink ♪
♪ She said, "I'm gonna mix it up Right here in the sink" ♪
♪ It smelled like turpentine... ♪
I've never had more faith in America
than I do today.
We have an America
that, in Bob Dylan's phrase,
is busy being born,
not busy dying.
I was very enamored of Jimmy Carter.
He... I thought he was a really soulful, interesting guy,
and he liked me.
So, you know, Imaintained a relationship with him for a long time.
And he's the guy
who got me into the Rolling Thunder concert that night.
Jimmy Carter.
Which is another story.
I was... I was one of the youngest members of the Congress.
And so I was, um...
Yeah, I mean, I was torn between two generations there.
I was being pulled in both... You know, you want to get anything done,
you have to get along with people in the Congress.
You know, you don't get anything done anymore because nobody wants to, but...
in my day you, you know, you made an effort
to get along with these guys.
And most of them were considerably older than I was.
And Dylan was considered the enemy, really, by a lot of these guys.
I had grown up in this era where, you know, you wanted to be an adult,
you wanted to drink a martini with your dad, you know.
And now...
you know, "Never trust anybody over 30." Right?
And I'm caught in the middle of this, and I'm dealing in the Congress
with all these old guys, and...
You know, it's an interesting conundrum.
My own interest in the criminal justice system
is very heartfelt.
One of the sources for my understanding about
what's right and wrong in this society
is from a personal, very close friend of mine
a great poet named Bob Dylan.
After listening to his records about "The Ballad of Hattie Carroll"
and "Like a Rolling Stone,"
I've learned to appreciate the dynamism of change in a modern society.
I grew up as a landowner's son,
but I don't think I ever realized that the proper interrelationship
between the landowner and those who worked on a farm
until I heard Dylan's record,
"I Ain't Gonna Work On Maggie's Farm No More."
So I went to this meeting, I believe it was in Atlanta.
Jimmy was there, and he and I spoke about a few things.
And I can't remember exactly what was left unsaid,
but I told him that I would call him back that night,
and we were gonna finish this conversation.
I had to get to the airport.
So I get on the flight, I'm trying to get home.
And I got caught in a storm, and we got diverted to Niagara Falls.
And I get stashed in this cheesy little motel
that the airline put us up in.
I called Jimmy to say I hadn't reached home,
but we could talk tomorrow, and he said, "Where are you?"
And I said, "I'm in Niagara Falls." And he says, "Well,
you just hit the jackpot because...
because Bob Dylan's doing this Rolling Thunder concert
there tonight, and you can go."
He said, "I'll call him and I'll get you in."
Dylan!
Dylan, you're beautiful!
Uncle Sam is going to sing
one of his versions of "The Star-Spangled Banner."
Ladies and gentlemen...
I saw the best minds of my generation
destroyed by madness,
starving hysterical...
This song about a human being
who is also an Indian.
- "Let America be America again." - And if you don't remember...
"Let it be the dream it used to be."
No, I'm sorry, you... you can't...
- Excuse me. You can't shoot in here. - You need authorization.
You cannot shoot in here, sir.
- Why can't I shoot in here? - He's running the camera.
What organization are you from?
Do you know where you're going to?
I don't know. You'll have to ask him.
I'm sorry you had the hassle. Uh, we didn't know you were coming.
Obviously.
We just happened to be in the neighborhood.
- I heard it was you. - I brought a friend if you don't mind.
No, I don't mind, but I'm sorry you had any trouble downstairs.
Uh, Irwin, this is Bob.
- How are you? - Good.
But if you're looking...
to help the guy, in effect,
you know, and your purpose is a social one rather than a record one,
then I think it probably would make sense, you know, to comment, you know, early.
You know what I'm saying? I don't know what your motivations are.
You're kind of throwing it out and I haven't given a lot of thought.
I think there's a Top 40 AM problem.
Conversely, there may be a lot of black radio play,
for example, in the east.
- Or you make it AM play. - So WWRL would...
It's a Bob Dylan statement, that it is unique.
Whoever wants to play it can play it,
but the idea is he wants it on the streets,
so people can do with it what they want.
But with those caveats,
your motivation is to try to do what you can for the guy,
then it probably makes sense to do it as quickly as possible.
- That's the motivation. - Uh...
♪ Pistol shots ring out In a barroom night ♪
♪ Enter Patty Valentine From the upper hall ♪
♪ She sees the bartender In a pool of blood ♪
♪ Cries out, "My God They killed them all"... ♪
If they can get it out on the street in a week that's, you know, that's good.
That's what they were talking about.
Rubin Carter was an amazing boxer,
middleweight,
who had been framed
for a murder in New Jersey
and was languishing now in Rahway State Prison.
Bob wrote this incredible song,
"Hurricane," and was very concerned about getting him out.
I'd written songs about boxers before, so that was nothing new, but, uh...
I hadn't really thought about, uh, Hurricane...
because I didn't know about Hurricane.
Uh...
It...
It never really crossed my path.
I got the book. I read it.
Um, I, you know, made a mental note that if I was coming east,
or if I was east, I would, uh, visit him.
We were there for, you know, most of the day,
as far as I can remember.
Uh, we got there in the morning and then left him when it was dark.
I realized the man's philosophy
and my philosophy were running on the same road.
You know, and, uh, you don't meet too many people like that,
you know, that you just know that kinda on the same path, mentally, you know.
Yeah.
Dylan was different than other people who came to see me.
I mean, other people would ask the obvious questions.
"Rubin, are you guilty?"
You know, "Did you commit this crime?" "Did you do that?" You know.
But Dylan wasn't asking that.
Not at all. It seemed like he was searching for something else.
It was as if he was saying,
"Who are you, man?"
You know, "Are you what I see?"
I had a friend of mine send me his lyrics to his songs,
and so I could read his lyrics,
so I can get an... an idea of who I'm talkin' to here, you know.
And...
I found something that was, uh, very interesting.Very...
That really connected us.
Both of us were... were performers and crowd-pleasers.
You know, me with the vicious left hook,
you know, whose parents grew up in the Jim Crow South,
and Dylan, uh, you know, with his... uh... the troubadour.
So you got back, and you had the germ of an idea to do a song?
- Yeah. - Why?
I mean, you know, is this a return to protest...
I mean...
You know, is this, uh, "Hattie Carroll" revisited?
Um, there's an injustice that has been done, you know.
And the fact is that it can happen to anybody.
- Mm-hmm. - You know?
- And we have to be confronted with that. - So... So...
This song is called "Hurricane."
If you got any political pull at all,
maybe you can help us get this man out of jail,
back onto the streets.
♪ Pistol shots ring out In the barroom night ♪
♪ Enter Patty Valentine From the outer hall ♪
♪ She sees the bartender In a pool of blood ♪
♪ Cries out, "My God, They've killed 'em all!" ♪
♪ Here comes the story of the Hurricane ♪
♪ The man the authorities came to blame ♪
♪ For somethin' that he never done ♪
♪ Put in a prison cell But one time he coulda been ♪
♪ The champion of the world ♪
♪ Three bodies lyin' there Does Patty see ♪
♪ And another man named Bello Movin' mysteriously ♪
♪ "I didn't do it," he says And he throws up his hands ♪
♪ "I was only robbin' the register You understand ♪
♪ I saw them leave, though" he says And he stops ♪
♪ "One of us had better Call on the cops" ♪
♪ And so Patty calls the cops ♪
♪ And they arrive on the scene With their red lights flashin' ♪
♪ In the hot New Jersey night ♪
♪ Meanwhile, far away In another part of town ♪
♪ Rubin Carter and a couple of friends Are drivin' around ♪
♪ Number one contender For the middleweight crown ♪
♪ Had no idea what kinda shit Was about to go down ♪
♪ When a cop pulled him over To the side of the road ♪
♪ Just like the time before And the time before that ♪
♪ In Paterson, that's the way things go ♪
♪ If you're black, you might as well Not show up on the streets ♪
♪ 'Less you want to draw the heat ♪
♪ Alfred Bello, he laid this rap On the cops ♪
♪ "Me and Arthur Dexter Bradley Were in here prowlin' around ♪
♪ We saw two men runnin' out of here They looked like middleweights ♪
♪ Jumped into a white car With out-of-state plates" ♪
♪ And Miss Patty Valentine Just nodded her head ♪
♪ Cop said, "Wait a minute, boys This one's not dead" ♪
♪ So they took him to the infirmary ♪
♪ And though this man could hardly see ♪
♪ They told him that he could identify The guilty men ♪
♪ Four in the mornin' And they haul Rubin in ♪
♪ Took him to the hospital And they brought him upstairs ♪
♪ The wounded man looks up Through his one dyin' eye ♪
♪ Says, "Why'd you bring him in here for? He ain't the guy!" ♪
♪ Yes, here's the story of the Hurricane ♪
♪ The man the authorities came to blame ♪
♪ For somethin' that he never done ♪
♪ Put in a prison cell But one time he coulda been ♪
♪ The champion of the world ♪
♪ Four months later The ghettos are in flame ♪
♪ Rubin's in South America Fightin' for his name ♪
♪ Arthur Dexter Bradley's Still in the robbery game ♪
♪ And the cops are Puttin' the screws to him ♪
♪ Lookin' for someone to blame ♪
♪ "Remember that murder That happened in a bar? ♪
♪ Remember you said you saw The getaway car? ♪
♪ You think you'd like to play ball With the law? ♪
♪ Think it mighta been that fighter That you saw runnin' that night? ♪
♪ Don't forget now, you're white" ♪
♪ Arthur Dexter Bradley said "I'm really not sure" ♪
♪ Cops said "A poor boy like you could use a break ♪
♪ We got you for the motel job We're talkin' to your friend Bello ♪
♪ You don't wanna have to go back to jail Be a nice fellow ♪
♪ You'll be doin' society a favor ♪
♪ That son of a bitch is brave And gettin' braver ♪
♪ We want to put his ass in stir ♪
♪ We want to pin this triple murder On him ♪
♪ He ain't no Gentleman Jim" ♪
♪ All of Rubin's cards were marked In advance ♪
♪ The trial was a pig-circus He never had a chance ♪
♪ The judge made Rubin's witnesses Drunkards from the slums ♪
♪ To the white folks who watched He was a revolutionary bum ♪
♪ And to the black folks He was just a crazy nigger ♪
♪ No one doubted That he pulled the trigger ♪
♪ And though they could not produce The gun ♪
♪ The DA said he was the one Who did the deed ♪
♪ And the all-white jury agreed ♪
♪ Rubin Carter was falsely tried ♪
♪ The crime was murder one Guess who testified? ♪
♪ Bello and Bradley, and they both lied ♪
♪ And the newspapers They all went along for the ride ♪
♪ How can the life of such a man ♪
♪ Be in the palm of some fool's hand? ♪
♪ To see him obviously framed ♪
♪ Couldn't help but make me feel ashamed To live in a land ♪
♪ Where justice is a game ♪
♪ Now all the criminals In their coats and their ties... ♪
"Now all the criminals in their coats and ties
are free to drink martinis and watch the... and watch the sun rise."
"While Rubin sits like Buddha in a ten-foot cell,
an innocent man in a living hell."
I thought that was great.
Because the ballad of the Hurricane...
uh, sent an indelible message of justice gone awry,
you know what I mean?
So... So...
Dylan doing that spread the word far and wide.
♪ That's the story of the Hurricane ♪
♪ But it won't be over Till they clear his name ♪
♪ And give him back the time he's done ♪
♪ Put in a prison cell But one time he coulda been ♪
♪ The champion of the world ♪
Let me introduce you to everybody.
Many of the people who came to help me were white people,
which must have surprised the authorities,
because the authorities claimed that I committed this crime
because of my hatred for white people.
But here's all these white folks
coming to help this poor black man
who's in prison for something that he didn't do,
something that he didn't do. I mean, it... it was great.
What happens if the courts say no, where do you go from there?
Are you gonna go back into the courts once again?
If the courts say no, we just keep on fighting.
There's no such... There's no such thing as no.
There's just yes,
and the road is straight ahead, and we keep on going.
Bob always been searching.
Every time I see Bob now, and which we don't see each other frequently,
but every time I see him, I ask Bob, "Have you found it yet, Bob?"
And Bob says, "Yeah, I found it."
But I know he hasn't, 'cause he keeps searching.
He'd always say, "Hey, what are you searching for today?"
I'd say, "What?"
He'd say, "I know you're a searcher. What are you searching for?"
I'd say, uh, "Well, Hurricane, I'm searching for the Holy Grail."
And he'd say, "What?"
I said, "I'm gonna search until I find it, like Sir Galahad."
That's what I'm looking for.
- Five minutes. Five minutes. - Do you think he's a genius?
Is Bob Dylan a genius?
I don't know. That's a strange word.
Maybe.
I think the most brilliant thing he did was putting a group of highly motivated
and ambitious people on a train with no supervision,
and then let them become the most extreme versions of themselves.
Is that how you'd describe what happened?
I know that's what happened to me.
Let's go. Let's go.
Let's go.
So, why did you come here to speak to me?
Well, to try and, you know, stake my claim
and say, "Here I am, this is me. I'm the one who made this.
You're using it.
This wouldn't exist without me. I'm the filmmaker here."
December 4th, 1975, Montreal, Canada,
last scheduled concert for the Rolling Thunder Revue.
We phantoms are assembled at the end of the Rolling Thunder tour.
Roger? Let's go. Luther?
We started out trying to recover America.
We discovered a certain amount of truth about ourselves.
Old friends who thought their loves had been lost
were able to get together and, uh, face each other eye to eye
and sing over an electrical microphone
to please the desires of myriad young yearners,
who had been seeking some kind of union and community
and saw therein an image of that community.
Was the tour a success?
The tour was a disaster, it was a catastrophe.
- Why? - Well,
I told 'em we should be playing to 20,000-seaters,
but instead, you know, they wanted to play all these small joints.
Now you've got 16 to 18 people onstage,
and you got 15 people on the back line.
Buses and hotel rooms and catering, and you're only playing to houses
with 3,000 seats, so you're gonna hemorrhage money.
We were in the red before we even got on the road.
No, it wasn't a success.
Not if you measure success in terms of profit.
But it was a sense of adventure.
So, in many ways, yes, it was very successful.
Let's go.
Time to go.
- Come on. We're on. - Yeah, Rob, you look pretty.
What remains of that tour to this day?
Nothing.
Not one single thing.
Ashes.
♪ Mama, wipe the blood off of my face ♪
♪ I can't see through it anymore ♪
♪ I need someone to talk to And a new hiding place ♪
♪ I feel like I'm knockin' On heaven's door ♪
♪ Knock, knock, knockin' On heaven's door ♪
♪ Mama, I can hear that thunder roll ♪
♪ Echoing down from God's distant shore ♪
♪ I can hear Him calling out for my soul ♪
♪ l feel I'm knocking on heaven's door ♪
♪ Knock, knock, knockin' On heaven's door ♪
You who saw it all, or saw flashes and fragments,
take from us some example,
try and get yourselves together,
clean up your act, find your community,
pick up on some kind of redemption of your own consciousness,
become more mindful of your own friends,
your own work,
your own proper meditation,
your own proper art,
your own beauty.
Go out and make it for your own eternity.
♪ Knock, knock, knockin' On heaven's door ♪
♪ The water is wide ♪
♪ And I can't cross over ♪
♪ I've neither wings ♪
♪ That I could fly ♪
♪ Build me a boat ♪
♪ That can carry two ♪
♪ And both shall row ♪
♪ My love and I ♪
♪ There is a ship ♪
♪ And it sails on the sea ♪
♪ Loaded deep ♪
♪ As deep can be ♪
♪ But not as deep ♪
♪ As the love I'm in ♪
♪ And both shall row ♪
♪ My love and I ♪
Bob!
Encore!
♪ Hot chili peppers In the blistering sun ♪
♪ Dust on my face and my cape ♪
♪ Me and Magdalena on the run ♪
♪ I think this time we shall escape ♪
♪ Sold my guitar to the baker's son ♪
♪ For a few crumbs and a place to hide ♪
♪ But I can get another one ♪
♪ And I'll play for Magdalena as we ride ♪
♪ No llores, mi querida ♪
♪ Dios nos vigila ♪
♪ Soon the horse will take us to Durango ♪
♪ Agárrame, mi vida ♪
♪ Soon the desert will be gone ♪
♪ Soon you will be dancing the fandango ♪
♪ Past the Aztec ruins And the ghosts of our people ♪
♪ Hoofbeats like castanets on stone ♪
♪ At night, I dream of bells In the village steeple ♪
♪ Then I see the bloody face of Ramon ♪
♪ Was it me that shot him down In the cantina? ♪
♪ Was it my hand that held the gun? ♪
♪ Come let us fly, my Magdalena ♪
♪ The dogs are barking And what's done is done ♪
♪ No llores, mi querida ♪
♪ Dios nos vigila ♪
♪ Soon the horse will take us to Durango ♪
♪ Agárrame, mi vida ♪
♪ Soon the desert will be gone ♪
♪ Soon you will be dancing the fandango ♪
♪ At the corrida, we'll sit in the shade ♪
♪ And watch the young torero stand alone ♪
♪ Drank tequila Where our grandfathers stayed ♪
♪ When they rode with Villa into Torreón ♪
♪ And the padre will recite The prayers of old ♪
♪ In the little church this side of town ♪
♪ I'll wear new boots And an earring of gold ♪
♪ You'll shine with diamonds In your wedding gown ♪
♪ Was that the thunder that I heard? ♪
♪ My head is vibrating I feel a sharp pain ♪
♪ Come sit by me, don't say a word ♪
♪ Oh, can it be that I am slain? ♪
♪ Quick, Magdalena, take my gun ♪
♪ Look up in the hills That flash of light ♪
♪ Aim well, my little one ♪
♪ We may not make it through the night ♪