well
the rights as citizens
the future of the Internet so
I'd like to welcome to it had stage the
man behind those revelations at snowed in
it is
so it
a remote location some in russia controlling
this but with from his laptop so he can see
what not but can see at welcome to the 10th stage what
what can you say as a matter of fact theater
this is a way I on
ed on some questions for you because many things
in the last few months you've been called a whistleblower
a traitor a hero what
words would you describe yourself with you know we
everybody was involved with this debate
is being struggling or me and my personality and
what how to describe when I think about it these these
decision question which the store who I am
really doesn't matter at all if I'm the worst person in the world
you can hate me and more what really matters here Harvey
issues what really matters here is the kind of government
excited internet more the kind of relationship between people
and sis I and that's what I'm hoping the debate in
towards and we've seen an increasing over time in my head
cell I was like hero I'm use a tree and I'm
you straight year and say I'm American and I missus
just like everyone so just to give some context for those who don't know the
whole whole story
this time the
this time a year ago you are stationed in
Hawaii working as a consultant to the NSA you had
as a sysadmin you had access to their systems and you began
a.m. revealing certain classified documents to some hand-picked
journalists leading the way to gins revelations
now what propelled you to do this you know
when I was sitting in wall
and years before when I was working in the intelligence community action a lot
of things that mister
we do a lot of good things
intelligence community things that need to be done things to help it
but there are also things to go to people are there things that should be
done in
decision to invade NEC without the public's awareness about the public's
concern
and without even have a representative government
had no injuries or when
I really came to struggle with these issues
I heart or soul how can I do this
in the most responsible way that maximizes the public benefit
well minimizing list and out all the solutions like
somewhere our going to congress
when there was no lost their own legal protections for our
private employer contractor tells us but my cell
there was there is a risk that I'm be buried along
information in the public never find out what the first amendment
the United States Constitution guarantees just Free Press
or our rooms and that's to enable an adversarial
Press to challenge the government but also to work together the government
to have a dialogue and debate about how we can inform the public about
matters y/n or its without putting our national security yes
and by working with journalists by giving
following information: back to near people
rather than trusting myself to make decisions about publication we had a
robust today
with a deed invested by the government that I think has resulted in
abetted or or ever and
the risks that have been headband threatens the risks
then laid off by the government have never materialized we've never seen any
evidence
I'm even a single instances on Phillips up
XO that I'm comfortable with the decision so
let let me show the audience couple example the about what you reveal to
pick up have
a slight up a net I don't know what you couldn't see if you the flight to hear
that this is a flight at the prism
program and maybe you could tell
the audience what what that was that was revealed the best way to understand
prison
because there's no wonder controversy is a first for power prism
is much three in the US has been about
man they said it's just met it's just meditate and they're talking about
specific they were
or both section 213 major
that allows sorta warrantless wiretapping massive fail to be
fire countries from records things like that who you're talking to you when
you're talking to them
I where you travel these are all meditate
prism is about current
it's a program to which the government could compel
corporate america is your deputized
over America to do its dirty war for the NSA
and enough so these companies do exist you know someone who might be
Yahoo 10 challenge to me were they all lost
because it was never try fire or they were only trying to actually
and something that we've seen something about prism over
we is gonna talk important US government where they said
15 federal judges have reviewed these programs about a bball
what they don't tell you is those are
secret judges in a secret or
based on secret interpretations of law
this consider 34,000 more
West over 33 years ended 33 years
only rejected 11 government report
these are the people that we want deciding what the role of corporate
america is free and open Internet should be
now this this light that we're showing here shows that the dates
in which different technology company's Internet companies
are a alleged to have joined the program aware data collection began
from the but they have denied collaborate
collaborating with the NSA how
was that data collected by the NSA
right so Desa zones lies
refer to it as direct access what that means to an actual
NASA and someone like me who is working as an intelligence analyst up
targeting you know Chinese cyber actors things like that
why is the provenance of that data is directly from their server
a does it mean then there's a you know group company representatives sitting in
a small you were with the NSA
Alan around making back-to-back deepest where
now each company handles a different ways summer responsible so we're
somewhat less responsible
with the bottom line is when we talk about how this information is
is gay I it's coming probably companies themselves is not stolen from the lines
when there's an important thing to remember here even though companies push
back to you know companies I had demanded a
let's do this through war process let's do this you know
where we actually have some too early or you
some sort basis for handing over the issue Tuesday
we saw story in the washington post last year or as well reported
some sort that said the NSA broke in
to the data center communications between two people who sell
and Yahoo to sell so even the score it is bizarre
watering intended to compel but hopefully go home and
PSA the NSA isn't satisfied with that
and because of that we need our company's two were buried
heart to guarantee they're going to Trevor
represent the interests of the user also advocate
or right use and I think over the last year reaching the companies that are
named
onlookers lives a rates for us to do that and I
virgin in what more should they do
the more the biggest thing the Internet company
in american do today right now
without consulting with lawyers to protect the rights abuses
why is to enable
I sellers or to be prepared with encryption
every page that you visit the reason this matters
is today you go to look at a copy in 1984 on and its not da cop
the NSA director the russian intelligence service the record at the
Chinese
services unit record at French service the German service
services and/or Alcide because it
money printed the world's library
has on da rock well not only do they not support encryption by the fall
you cannot choose to use encryption when browsing books
this is something that we need to change not just friends and I don't mean to
single them out
they're great example all companies need mood
me predicted warehousing habit by for all users who had taken any action
or anything about on iraq now increased
privacy rights that people enjoy the world wall
mmm that come with me I am to this part of the stage
I wanna show you the next flight here who's the program called boundless
informant what is that so I I gotta give credit to the NSA
for for using a program manager if this were my favorite editor
I bad what's important is a program that the NSA him car
the NSA was previously held by congress was there any ability
they had to even get a rock all or estimate
up the amount of american communications that were being intercepted
they said no he said we don't track instead every chair
tractors that we can tell you
Tony communication intercepting around the world because to tell you that would
be to invade your privacy
now I really appreciate that sentiment from but the reality we will be this
light is not only do they have any
already exist it already in place
the NSA has its own internal data format
their tracks the bonanza for communication
NASA miscommunication came from a mer
Intel congress communist if they have
today right now well I wasn't for me tells us
is more communications are being intercepted in american to
in america about Americans than there are in russia
about what I'm not sure that's when it tells ABC should be a
and at there was a story broke in the washington post again from your
data the headline says an essay broke privacy rules thousands the times per
year
tell us about that we also heard in congressional testimony last year it was
amazing someone like me who came from the NASA
whose seen the action in total darkness knows what theyre
I to see officials testify under oath there had been no one uses
that there is no violations in as israel's
when we knew this story was coming well what's especially interesting about this
about the fact that the NSA has violated their own rules
their own laws thousands of times in a single year
including 18 YSL won't even have those
2,776 I
detected more than 3,000 people in another event they intercepted
all holes in Washington DC by accident
what's amazing about this this report they didn't know that much attention
is directed not only were there 2,776
uses share in the Senate Intelligence Committee Dianne Feinstein had not seen
this report
until the Washington Post contacted her
asking for comment or and she then requested a copy from the NSA
receded but have never seen this before that
what does that say about the stay oversight in american intelligence
when the chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee has no idea you
the rules being broken thousands of times every
ed one response to this whole debate
is this it's why should we care about all the surveillance honestly I mean
look
if you've done nothing wrong you've got nothing to worry about
it what's wrong with that point of view
well so what you're saying is you're you're you're getting on the right to
say hey enough I don't think I'm gonna need them
so I'm just gonna trust me you know what let's get rid of it doesn't really
matter
you know these guys gonna do the right thing your rights matter
because you never know when you're going to be beyond that it's a hard worker
holds true identity not just
in america what in Western societies in a democratic society as well
people should be able to pick up the ball and call their
and that people should be able to send a text message to the world
people should be reliable online they should be able to travel by train
they should be able to apply it airline ticket without wondering about how these
events were gonna walk
to an agent of the government possibly your got them
years in the future how they're gonna be misinterpreted what they're gonna think
your intentions
we have a right to privacy we require
warrants to be based on probable cause or some kind
individualized suspicion because recognized trusting
anybody any any government already
will be entirely up human communication in secret without
oversight is simply too great a temptation to be able
some people a furious at what you've done I had a quite recently from
dick cheney he said that
Julian a size with the flea bite a
at what's known as the lie in the pit the head of the dog
he thinks you committed wanna the were stacks at the trail
in American history with you say to people who think that
Dick Cheney is really something else
period I I think it's amazing really nah
time Julius on who's doing someone whose greatest work
day chaining say he was gonna and governments worldwide
this guys were gonna a night
indices were going to boil all and now he said
by so we should be suspicious about the same salute overall
plane day imagine here from the head this is what
but let's assume
let's assume that these people really good I would argue that they have
kind in a row a near a conception our national security don't drive hundreds
of people like dick cheney
do not keep the nation he said the public interest
is not always the same as the National
going to war with people who are not parenting
in places that are not operate doesn't make a said
and that applies whether it's in Iraq or on the Internet
the internet is not the end our economy is not be in
Amir businesses Chinese businesses in the area any other world any other
company
out there is heart our society it apart are
interconnected world there are times fraternity
say far us together any
destroying these barns by one standard
is be really the the manner way
that nation's incisions all around the world expect us to our
but term you know it's alleged that you use
dolan 1.7 million documents it seems
only a few hundred of them have been shared with journalists so far
other more revelations to come up they're actually more operations to come
by I don't think there's any are
any question that some of the most important
so most important reporting to you don
is yet to come well let me
at cut company tax don't ask about this particular revelation
come and take a look at this I mean this is
this is a story which i think for a lot of the techies in this room is the
single most shocking thing that they
have heard in the last few months it's about to a program called bull
run could you explain what that is so
Bowl running this is again we re we've got bag we gotta thank the NSA
for their and a I dishes a
program named after civil war back I
British counterpart is called edge which is the UK's or the reason
that I leader name this way is because they target at home
infrastructure their programs for which the NSA
intentionally mislead corporate boards
they tell court reporters that these are say standards they say hey
we need to work with you 26 your a security system
but in reality there getting bad advice to these companies that make him the
greatest security services
their building in back to work not only the NSA
connect way by anyone else who has time and money
to research and find it can use to let himself go into the world
communique and this is really dangerous because if we will lose
single standard if we lose the trust
something like a SSL which was specifically targeted by the or
I we will live in a West save your overall we won't be able to access our
banks and won't be able to access
a I commerce without worrying about people monitoring those communications
burger or and do the same decisions also potentially
on open America up to cyber attack from
other sources absolutely
I want problems what sorta
that a dangerous legacies that we've seen in the post-9/11 era
is it the NSA and
traditional war 2 hacked they've been in charge of its operations that happen
but they also manage or defense operation and traditionally they always
prioritize defense overall good
based on the principle that american secrets are simply were
more if we had Chinese business
st. Lucie it if we had a government office in Berlin and steal their secrets
that has less brown to the american people
invading shore the Chinese can get access to actually so
by reducing the security guard communications they're not only bring
the world
they're putting america at risk not fundamental way because
intellectual property is the basis the foundation mr.
any editors we yuri were in agreement with me
but that they've made a calculation that it was worth doing this
as possum america's defense against terrorism
sorry that makes a price with pay well when you look at the
when you look at the results %uh these programs got
terrorism you will see that that's not bad I
and you don't take my word for it because a
we head the first only four the first federal courts with new to this I
outside sorta secrecy arrangement call these programs orwellian
and likely unconstitutional I congress
who has access to be briefed on these things and now has the
desired head produce bills reported
and to independent White House panel to review all the glass what evidence
said these programs have never stopped a single
terrorist attack is imminent in the United States
so is it really terrorism that we're stopping
do different to anything at all I say no
and a whole tree branches in the american government say no as well
I mean do you think there's a deeper motivation for them than the war against
terrorism
up so I could use a site do you think there's a deeper
motivation for them other than the war against terrorism
yeah the the bottom line is that terrorism has always been and what we
need
held well all cover for action
I terrorism is something that provokes an emotional response
that allows people so rationalized
arising powerful programs that they would year are all
be more on edge type programs the NSA asked resort is back in the nineteen
ninety
they asked the FBI to go to consummate case
yeah i wud bars indicate Congress and the American people said no
this is not worth the risk to our economy said or too much damage to our
society
that just are working but what we saw is in the post-9/11
here a few secrecy they use the justification terrorism
to start these programs in secret without asking congress
without asking the american people and it's that kinda government behind closed
doors
we meet or herself yes because it makes
laissez at all small okay Cup come with me here for sex I got a more personal
question for you
up speaking of Tara on
most people would find the situation you're in right now I
in Russia pretty terrifying I'm
your C you know you heard what happened
for the treatment that Bradley Manning got Chelsea Manning has now is
and those historian BuzzFeed saying that there are people in intelligence
community who want you dead
how how are you coping with this you how are you coping with the fear
you know it's it's no mystery that
there are governments out there that want to see on
I have a clear again and again and again
that I go to sleep everywhere
thinking about what I can do the American the
I don't want to harm my cover
I wanna help
well the fact that they're going to
completely or due process they're going to
to declare deal without ever seeing a trial
these are things that we need to go to work against as a society hey this is
not cool
we should be directed we should criminalizing German
and whatever for I can't you see that and
I'm happy to do despite sought as you like to get to the feedback from the
audience here cuz I don't is widely differing reactions to
at Worcester I'm Spurs you had the following two choices right you could
view what he did is fundamentally a reckless
act that has endangered America
on or you viewed as fundamentally
a heroic act that will a work towards
America and the world long-term good as those are the two choices I'll give you
and I'm curious to see who's is willing to vote with the first to those
that this was a a reckless act
missing hands going up and going up it's it's hot
but you have not when the the man is standing right here but
I set up I I
and who goes with the second choice a fundamentally her right
and I think it's true to say that there are a lot of people who didn't show and
I think I think
I still thinking this through because it seems to me
at the debate around you doesn't split along traditional
political rock lines is not left to right it's not really about
pro-government libertarian I or not just that
I'm partisans to generational issue
you're part of a generation that grew up with the Internet
and it seems as if you you become offended at the most visceral
level when you see something done that you think will harm the Internet
mean is that is that some truth to that
it is you know I
I i think is very true this is not where right issue you know
our basic freedoms and when I say our I don't just mean Americans I mean people
or
it is not a partisan issue the things that all
people and it almost that
it to people who is seen enjoyed free and open Internet
its of to Los to preserve battery
for the next generation enjoy you don't change that
if we don't stand up to make the changes needed
to cheat the internet sale not just because for
ed organs and then be a tremendous loss not just for us
war well I have hurt similac was recently from the founder of the World
Wide Web
who I actually think is with us
set him but as lee 10 with I should do not come up in and
said to have a microphone for 10
for 50
on were would page which company you and by the way I'm
up traitor hero I have a theory on this that
by I've gone much longer and longer
expand it answers that question but here
effective it the a choice between the two and
at you I think you've read a the president's attends
talked about about a new back the concert to take back the Internet
is that something that makes sense absolutely i mean
my generation I well not just thinking about the Internet
but I'm or any internet okay
and although I never expected to our to have a chance to
defended in such a hour such a direct and practical manner and disorder
everybody is inish unusual or up
almost avatar man I think there's solid political
back to one of the sons and has actually become
close to the Internet as a result of their political expression
and I we day America every internet
is exactly what we need we need to encode
our values not just in writing
within the structure of the injured and
is something that I hope I am by everyone in the audience
not just here in Vancouver but around the world
to join and participate in do you have a question for
at well as the the to questions a general question that connects to hear
us
yes I can hear your ok out his back the
somebody the wiretap on the online political
into the rhythm I the doing anything wrong so
if so from the twenty-five years some
step back keeps stepping back and thinking I what would you think
would be the best that we can achieve I from all the discussions that we have
about the about the way beyond you know I
when we think about in terms of how far we can go.
I think that's a question that you really only limited by what we want to
put it
I think the internet that we've enjoyed in the past
it then exactly where we enter
measure not just a nation whereas people around the world me
and by cooperating
by engaging not just the technical part society but
as you said they use people around the world who
Gentry the internet through social media just checked the weather
who rely on every day as a part of their life to share via
we'll get not just the internet we had
but it better it now something that
region used bill future then we better not just in what we hoped for
anything that we could have imagined it some
its thirty years ago that ted was founded in nineteen eighty for
I'm a lot of the conversation since then has been
along the lines that actually george orwell got it wrong
it's not big brother watching us weeds with the power of the web
transparency and now watching Big Brother your revelations kinda drive a
stake through the heart of that rather optimistic
view on that but use you still believe that the way I've
doing something about that and you do too bright so
there is a there is and argument to be made
that powers a big brother has increased enormously
there was a recent New York or
handy a I establish something called the bank
in arsal on it brings which is that our expectation of privacy
is by when the capabilities of government Salmons had become she'll buy
it border
magnet and each time that occurs we need to revisit
and remaster props now that hasn't happened since
a the government's surveillance powers have increased
by level magnitude and that's why we're image
problem here here in today what there is still a whole
because the power individuals have also increased by technology
I am living through that any
individual can go head to head against the most our
adversary most our hotel eighties around the world
and and I think that's something
we need to take 0 and we need to build more
to make it accessible not just a technical expert ordinary citizens
around the world
journalism is not bar communication is neither
had and we should not be monitored more everyday acted I don't want to show how
to shake the hand over
apart but I imagine a firm in about to come
there's a this is the happy right here I is
yeah I I hope might be in which is nice to get back to you
you guys but but thank you thank you to me that
the New York Times recently called for an amnesty for you
would you welcome the chance to come back to America absolutely i mean
there's
there's really a question the principles that have been the foundation
up this project and then the whole
injuries and the principles that underlie
the journalistic establishment in the United States
in a row and
I think if the press is now saying
we support this this is something that needs to happen
that's a powerful argument is not a final and I think that's something that
the party
well at at the same time the government has hinted that they want some kind of
deal
alright if they want me just sort of compromise the journalist
which I working to go back and I want to make it very clear
then I did not do this to me say idea is to do what was you
while and I'm going to start my work in the public interest
just invented want them
in the meantime and courtesy of the Internet
and this technology a you hear back in North America
not quite the US Canada I in this form how
I'm curious about how does that feel Canada is different than what I expected
a lot more
a at ted is that it is
missed it the mission is ideas worth spreading if you could encapsulated in a
single idea what
is your idea was spreading right now at this moment I would say
last year's gonna remind day
democracy need I'm closed doors we as individuals are or
behind those same closed and we don't have to give up
our Privacy to have going on
we don't have to give our they had executed
and I think by working together we can have both
open government and private lives and I look forward to working with everyone
around the world
that thank you very much at thank you