USA! USA!
# We have come a long, long way together.
# Through the hard times and the good. Thank you. Look what happened,
is this crazy? # I have to celebrate you, baby.
# I have to praise ye like I should. # We have come a long, long way
together. # Through the hard times and the
good. # I have to celebrate you, baby.
# I have to praise you like I should.
should. Donald Trump will become the 47th president of the United States.
# I have to praise you. # I have to praise you like I
should. He asked, are there any place where
the vice-president is over performing?
Literally nothing? Literally not one?
I know many people feel like we are entering a dark time. If it is, let
us fill the sky with the light of a brilliant, brilliant billion stars.
# I have to praise you like I should.
Welcome to Newsnight, live from the White House.
America has hired a strongman who promised to save the country
and rejected a woman who promised to bring the country together.
Why did Trump win so comprehensively and why did Harris lose?
It's a stunning political comeback - a landslide for Donald Trump
as voters emphatically chose him to be the 47th president
of the United States.
Tonight, what happens next for this nation and the world?
On this live extended special, the conservative news
anchor and friend of Donald Trump - Eric Bolling.
He's the author of Wake Up America and The Swamp who is also the host
of the new politics based talk show called Bolling!
Also, Democratic strategist Ameshia Cross is back with us -
she worked for President Obama.
And journalist and Talk TV presenter Piers Morgan who has been a friend
of Mr Trump for 20 years but kind of fell out with him after Mr Trump
falsely claimed the 2020 election was stolen.
But you are now friends again because he took your call today.
What did he say?
He did, I was quite surprised, actually. I obviously didn't get to
bed until very late and I rang him about 9.30 and it rang a few times
and he picked the phone up. He said, Piers, can you believe this? And I
was like, not really, because the scale of the win was beyond anything
anyone anticipated. It's not beyond the realms of fantasy that Trump
could have a complete clean sweep. The Senate, the White House, US
House of Representatives, everything, the popular vote, and
who would have thought that would be the case if you went back to and
have yet to when Donald Trump was dead and buried politically? It is
the greatest political comeback of all time and I told him that this
morning. He did not demur from that categorisation. But I think even he,
when I spoke to him, was quite shell-shocked by the size of the win
was that even in his wildest dreams, and obviously, he dreams big, I
don't think he expected to have such a vindication, as he would see it,
of his policies, and such a repudiation of Kamala Harris and
Harris Biden administration. But that what happened. Let's get into
how he did it. Eric Bolling, it was so emphatic. How did he do it? I
would like to push back a bit on this notion that this is the
greatest political comeback in history. Why is it a political
comeback? Because he lost in 2020. But he never really went away. He
was the face of the Maga movement, replacing the establishment, the old
school republicanism with a new America First Conservative political
system. How has he done it this time? He went up against a failing
Joe Biden at the beginning of this cycle and he finished with someone
who had to drop out of the 2020 cycle because she wasn't impressed
by the Democrat party. So it's about them rather than him? It's about
change. In America, we have been through a rough time over the last
four years with inflation soaring, crime soaring, open borders and
illegal immigrants who are raping and murdering some of our women and
children in America. It was a failed Democrat policy. America rejected
Kamala Harris and this notion that men should play in women's sports,
that transgender boys should be in girls' bathrooms. America set,
enough. They rejected her, they also rejected the policies of the
Democrat party. Ameshia Cross, are you in shock that 72 million people
voted for Eric Bolling has just described? I think the beginning of
what Eric said was actually factual. I don't think that this should have
been a surprise to a lot of people. The voter turnout was seismic, yes,
but the fact that Trump stood a high chance of winning was not a shock to
a lot of folks. Come on, it must have been a shock to you. I always
thought this would be extremely competitive. But you did not imagine
it would be such a comprehensive defeat. No. But did I think it would
be competitive? Absolutely.
be competitive? Absolutely. Partly because America is extremely
partisan. We cannot underscore how vital the push to come back after
the pandemic was. Pandemic fatigue affected a lot of Americans in all
income ratios, irrespective of the job gains that were made by the
Biden administration, irrespective of the gains in health care,
particularly Medicare and affordable health care when it comes to drugs
like insulin for diabetics. When we talk about some of the things the
Biden administration has taken on, a lot of that did not translate to
people on the ground because of price gouging and what translated to
some people as inflation, when we had the lowest inflation of anybody
in the developed world. Those things were not translating. I also think
Kamala Harris bet big on women's reproductive rights because polling
showed that that was a huge virtue for women. When it came to the
actual exit polls on election day, women went in a different direction
and that was not a top policy issue for them. We are going to delve into
where she and Biden and her campaign went wrong. Piers Morgan, let's talk
about what Donald Trump said he would do. Donald Trump talked about
going after the enemy within, "The crazy lunatics, fascists, Marxists,
the people running the country. These people are more dangerous, the
enemy within, than Russia and China". What does that mean in
practical terms? If you know Donald Trump well, it means he was sick and
tired of being called the new Hitler and presiding over a bunch of
neo-Nazis and fascists who were going to be an exact existential
threat to American democracy. So he decided to return fire with fire and
say, if you are going to call me Hitler for years on end, I'm going
to return the favour. As with all things that Trump says, it's better
for my estimation of knowing him a long time through good and bad
periods of our relationship, to not take everything he says at face
value but to judge him on his actions. But there is a wider point.
The Democrats in this election campaign began by saying it was
going to be about hope and joy. Remember the start of her campaign?
It was going to be joyous, and it took about three microseconds to
revert back to the Hillary Clinton playbook which was unsuccessful in
2016 of just branding Trump and his supporters a bunch of fascists and
garbage and the rest of it. And most Americans want, we are done with
this rhetoric, this ludicrous demonisation of Donald Trump. He is
not a Nazi. Adolf Hitler killed 12 million people including 6 billion
Jews in the Holocaust. So are you saying he is not going to go after
those people that he regards as his enemies? If I were him, I wouldn't
waste my energy. Trump has been given a rare chance to have a second
go at his legacy. He knows he not going to run again, so he hasn't got
to compete in that sense. I would hope he would park the energy he may
be feeling towards revenge on actually doing what he is promising,
which is to make America great again. He has a good chance.
Inflation is nearly over, the economy is beginning to roar back.
He is coming in at a good time to run America. It has done better than
most countries coming out of the pandemic, and he has a chance,
through the economic policies he has espoused and through a tough stance
on the border, which has been out of control, if we think we have
problems in the UK, nearly 10 million illegal immigrants have come
through the American southern border in the last four years, it is
ridiculous. So Trump is aware of what average Americans care about. I
had Ameshia saying the issue of abortion was not that big. It was
never going to be, primarily because Americans want, hang on, the
Democrats are the party of women's rights. So how are they allowing
transgender athletes to destroy women's rights in sport? You can't
be both. One erodes women's rights and one protects them, so there were
lots of inconsistencies in the way the Democrats presented themselves.
It has been a culture war argument that the right has taken on for some
time. Do you want to answer that point from peers Morgan? About
transgender rights? And how you reconcile that with the party
women's rights. When you're talking about what I would consider a red
herring. Less than 1% of the American population identify as
transgender. This is not a major issue, it is something they utilised
their base. I would like you to answer that point. I just did, less
than 1% identify as transgender. This was not the top issue. No one
said transgender issues whether think they cared about. How do you
reconcile the two as a Democrat? The thing the Democrats need to
reconcile is how to maintain working class voters. You are ignoring the
question. I answered the question, it is less than 1% who care. It is
not a talking point for voters. Is it because you can't answer? I don't
engage in conversations about red herrings.
herrings. Can I get in? She was handed the nomination in Joe Biden
was clearly not going to perform well, so they gave them two Kamala
Harris. Then there is the issue of the first Gentleman, who could no
longer be called the first Gentleman because there were accusations of
him slapping his girlfriend at the time so hard, her face went around
backwards. Asking a pregnant girlfriend who happened to be the
nanny to one of his children he got pregnant, to have an abortion. There
are so many things. I am going back to Piers Morgan in New York. Come
back to Ameshia Cross, please. There is a complete delusion and
self-denial in Ameshia's refusal to address the issue. She has 1% of
Americans are trans, fine. But this trans debate has been massively loud
and noisy for several years and Trump set an interesting thing last
night. He talked about the reason that so many people from different
groups, Latinos, black Americans, women, why have they gravitated to
him in big numbers? He said it was because he has, at the heart of a
realignment of the voters in America, a core of common sense. If
you take the trans issue, only last week the United Nations had a report
that said 900 medals that should have gone to women in women's sport
around the world had done to transgender athletes, in other
words, biological males. We also witnessed the appalling scenes in
Paris where a boxer in women's boxing beat up a woman so badly that
she quit after 40 seconds. It has now been reported in the last few
days that the boxer, who went on to win a gold medal, has male
chromosomes and male physiology. This is where it gets to the point
where women are going to start dying at the altar of transgender virtue
signalling. I believe in fairness and equality for trans people, but I
do not believe that gives them the right to erode women's rights. I
come back to Ameshia to answer the question. How do you address the
fact that the Democrats had a female candidate as their nominee who kept
going on about being the person who would defend women's rights, when
you are also encouraging, as Kamala Harris and Joe Biden did, this
ridiculous assault on women's rights in sport?
I'm going to move on.
The Newsnight team has been out today in Washington DC
speaking to voters - here's what
they had to say.
I believe he is going to give us some prosperity. I believe American
citizens want to be feeling down and out about taxes, gasoline, paying
bills. I believe Donald is going to handle it. I think his first term
overall was successful for the country so I'm looking forward to
this and getting away from the high inflation and hopefully bringing
that down because it is hard to pay for groceries as high as they have
gone so I am hopeful for the future. I was not expecting a clear victory
for Donald Trump. But maybe because she started campaigning later and
may be because she has a female candidate, I am not sure if we are
ready for a female president yet. It's 2024. Of course, it is the time
to have it, this was the moment to have it. I voted for Donald Trump, I
did it and I am happy. What are your emotions today?
emotions today? Sad, tired. I'm a university student over at GW and
our professor came in, I could see she was crying before she even came
through the door. How are you feeling? Disgusted. Concerned. Why?
Because of the checks and balances are not there any more in my
estimation. What I have known all my life they will never know and I
can't
can't protect them from that. That is a massive thing to say. It is a
massive thing to feel. Do you think Donald Trump wants to do anything to
harm your ghettos? I think the policies will harm them. Just the
stuff on vaccines. I didn't have to worry about the measles or
diphtheria, I didn't have to worry about a lot of things and now they
are going to have to worry about them. As a trump supporter what do
you say to women like that who were literally crying today? It is
heartbreaking to hear people say those things but far more dangerous
to every community, not just African-American communities are
women with children, are some of the policies of the Biden Harris
administration. I'm asking about Donald Trump and the effect he is
having on some of these voters. Of course they wanted Kamala Harris and
they're going to cry if their candidate didn't win. This is what
she is worried about. She should be worried about a boy hitting a
volleyball into their daughter's faces. Forgive me, she is worried
about someone like Robert Kennedy Junior becoming Donald Trump's...
There is no indication he is going to take vaccines off the market. He
just doesn't want a mandated vaccine. If you want to take a
vaccine, that's great, but not to remove, he didn't say he was going
to remove vaccines. But there is a possibility Robert Kennedy Junior
could be Donald Trump's health tsar and this is he has said wild things
about the vaccines.
Here's what Trump has previously said about the role his
former Presidential rival Robert F Kennedy Junior could play
in a future Trump administration.
Robert F Kennedy Jr, he came on.
And he's going to help make America healthy
again.
CHANTING: Bobby! Bobby!
And he's a great guy and he really means it and
he wants to do some things and we are going to let him go to it.
I just said, but Bobby, leave the oil to me.
So just to quote some of the things he said, he said Melinda and Bill
Gates used the pandemic to promote vaccines, 2020, the historic coup
d'etat against democracy. He said vaccines cause autism, the US
Government knowingly allowed the pharmaceuticals industry to
knowingly poison a generation of children. It is completely false and
that is why women are crying. The actual vaccine for Covid-19 was
developed by Donald Trump. Robert F Kennedy wants to be part... No. No.
Robert F Kennedy is not going to be the Health Secretary, it is not
going to happen. The transition leader said that is not going to be
the case. Donald Trump said it literally last night. To be part of
the administration but not the Health Secretary. What do you think?
I think he will become a health tsar of sorts and he wanted to promote
this. He stands by his vaccine conspiracy theories. He wants to get
all vaccines off of the market. That would cause major chaos for this
nation where we have eradicated things like polio. He is more than
willing to bring those things back because he there has a very strange
view of how science works. He is also somebody who is absolutely fine
pushing wacko conspiracy theories that have been roundly castigated by
everybody who has a medical license in this country. It is a very scary
place to be especially for people who have young kids who live in
these communities where they are sending your kids to school. Your
kids are vaccinated and others are not, you can spread mass disease
very quickly. Only if you are in charge of actually making the
decision. His carrot for RFK was that he was going to be in charge.
Does anyone think Elon Musk are really going to be in charge of
wiping out excess fat in the Government? He might well be. What
job is Elon Musk going to get and why? I hope Elon Musk is heavily
involved in helping Trump to trim down the ridiculously over layered
and over expensive bureaucracy which has crippled the American Government
for many decades. Look at Elon Musk's record. This is a guy behind
space X and Tesla and neuro link, who has taken Twitter and try to
make it a fairer platform for free speech without would argue he has
done. In the last election there was clear interference by the tech
bosses to suppress free speech which could have affected the result of
that election. The hunter Biden laptop story was banned from Twitter
for two weeks because of the election coming up. That is
suppression of information that could have been materially impacting
on the election result. So I think Elon Musk, he is an extraordinary
character. I met him in France earlier this year and he was
mesmerising when he talked about things like colonising Mars and why
we have to do that, about humanoid robots and so on. He is an
extraordinary genius but I would absolutely trust Elon Musk over
anyone in the American Federal Government to work out how to make
savings. He went into X, Twitter as it was, and fired half the staff
almost immediately and the whole thing continued to work perfectly
fine. I would absolutely back Elon Musk and for all the liberals who
throw their toys out of the pram I would say, he was one of you but he
was so put off by what he called the walk mind virus which has been a
really insidious scourge on society, not just here in America but also in
Europe in the UK. And this vote here has been people saying enough of
this nonsense. We are just not going to have a society any more where try
and introduce this walk mind set to every aspect of our lives and Elon
Musk has been leading that. I applaud him. You are 100% correct.
Elon Musk will be an amazing addition to the Trump administration
just as Jared Kushner was an amazing addition to the Trump
administration, but they are senior advisers. He developed the Abraham
accords which brought Arabs and Israelis together. Elon Musk can be
very effective without the official title of chief staffer or official
title. I agree with Piers Morgan in that respect. I believe you have to
leave us but thank you for your time. Thanks for talking to our
British viewers.
Earlier this evening, Kamala Harris conceded defeat
in a speech at Howard University in Washington DC.
Here she is.
To the young people who are watching, it is OK to feel
sad and disappointed, but please know it's going to be OK.
On the campaign, I would often say, when we fight, we win.
But here's the thing, here's the thing.
Sometimes the fight takes a while.
That doesn't mean we won't win. That doesn't mean we won't win.
The important thing is, don't ever give up.
Don't ever give up.
Don't ever stop trying to make the world a better place.
You have power!
You have power.
Only when it is dark enough can you see the stars.
I know many people feel like we are entering a dark time,
but for the benefit of us all, I hope that is not the case.
But here's the thing, America, if it is, let us fill the sky
with the light of a brilliant, brilliant billions of stars.
APPLAUSE.
The light, the light of optimism, of faith, of truth and service.
CHEERING.
Come on.
Let's talk about what went wrong for the Democrats.
Piers Morgan and Ameshia Cross are staying.
Live in San Francisco is Willie Brown, the former mayor of
San Fran who has been a political mentor to Harris
and briefly went out with her many years ago.
And Lakshya Jain from the election modelling
organisation Split Ticket.
First of all, what was Kamala Harris talking about their? She was trying
to bring about a level of what passing the torch would be, but also
keeping people engaged in the process because obviously she is
talking to her supporters. People unfortunately who had stood outside
Howard University since 2pm yesterday, were out there until
probably around 11:30pm in waiting. They did not see the results they
wanted to see and they think her message was conciliatory, one that
was supposed to give them hope and not give up about a country that can
move forward and be what you envisioned. She must be absolutely
devastated in private, broken? I think anybody would be that loses an
election but I think she is someone who is a very formidable force and
we saw the writing on the wall. We also those numbers coming in earlier
than expected and at the end of the day she is interested in what a
peaceful transfer of power would look like. And let's talk about the
demographics, because she didn't get as many women voters as Joe Biden in
2020. What is going on? That was a bit of a surprise for every observer
who had seen Democrats make gains among the demographic following the
reversal of Roe V Wade and following the heavy messaging put in on
abortion and on women's rights in general so it was a little bit of a
surprise. What is even more noticeable is the gap was bigger
among women of colour and men of colour than it was among white men
in white women. That was quite surprising. What do you mean? The
gender gap between white women and white men was considerably narrower
than the gender gap between women of colour and men of colour. That was
notable and to how starkly die divergence was. 45% of Hispanic and
let you know voters went for Trump. He is pushing those numbers up, how
come? This comes down to a couple of things. A lot of times in the last
decade Democrats misdiagnosed what the Latino and Hispanic community
really wanted. They said they wanted progressivism and liberalism and
interest it seems like pocketbook and cheque-book issues motivate them
more during times of high inflation and there is nothing to condemn the
community on for that, and Democrats really focused on the wrong things
with that group and have been focusing on the wrong things since
2016 when Hillary Clinton hit her high water marks. Why do you think
when traditionally let you know voters vote for the Democrats, they
have moved on so many numbers for Donald Trump? Two reasons, one the
economy. Like every other community they are feeling the pinch
financially, the cost of living crisis has been raging for years.
The inflation has not gone away meaning prices are already
incredibly high, 20% up in most categories. And continue to tick up
and up and up even as inflation has come down. And also immigration.
Just because they are Latino it doesn't mean they don't actually
have a view, as it turns out, that illegal immigration being out of
control on the board there is a slap in the face to many in their
community who came into America perfectly legally and dead at the
right way, so certainly picking up a sense of that from some of the
interviews. But I would also add Kamala Harris was a singularly
uninspiring candidates start to finish. Somebody who didn't get
anywhere when she tried to run the first time round as a Democrat
nominee. Went out very early on, and she was a pretty poor vice
President, pulling incredibly low for most of her time as Joe Biden's
number two. A weird coronation which for a party that keeps banging on
about Trump being a threat to democracy, they just coordinated her
as the new nominee when they should have had a convention that works out
to the best candidate can be. And all we have had since, with the
exception of the debate where I thought she beat Trump, but all the
interviews she has given just a load of endless word salad gibberish and
we so much more of that again in her speech. It was perfectly OK and she
said all the right fluffy things but what did it mean? It really meant
nothing. What do you mean by the fight goes on? You just lost the
fight spectacularly badly. This is one of the worst performances by any
Democrat nominee in living memory and I think the reason is that she
was asked what would you do different to Joe Biden and she said,
absolutely nothing. So all the problems of that administration were
immediately her is to take accountability for, and she couldn't
articulate what her view for the country was going to be. And whether
you love or hate Donald Trump he was able to ram home messages about the
economy and about immigration and the big picture themes of his which
were crystal clear and people went to the ballot box knowing what they
were voting for.
Willie Brown, there was a long list of criticism that the Kamala Harris.
You know her well, you were her political mentor. Who bears
responsibility for this crushing defeat? Well, let me be clear that
the criticism of the campaign conducted by the Democrats since
June of this year till their defeat last night, or I should set our
defeat last night, all the criticism is clearly warranted. Under no
circumstances where we as prepared for the jolt of having to become a
candidate different from that who had potentially been a candidate for
a whole year. It's impossible to put together your team. You inherit so
many people who are already part of a group who were ready to get Biden
into operation in such a way to be competitive. Kamala Harris did not
have that opportunity. All the criticism by virtue of these 100
days of judging her is clearly warranted. It will never happen
again. So Joe Biden should have stepped down way earlier? It sounds
like that is what you are saying. The appropriate way in which Joe
Biden should have operated probably would have been the 21st of January
2021, when he got elected, he clearly should have said, my four
years are going to be to make America a place for everybody, a
place with love and care, a place with growth in the value of people's
assets, a place for greater education and greater health care
and at the end of that four years, I'm going to go and do what I want
to do with my family and friends. And I will only consider coming back
if I'm asked come back. Mr Brown, Joe Biden has just released a
statement. Let me read some of it our audience. "What America saw
today was the Kamala Harris I know and admire. She has been a
tremendous partner and public servant with integrity, courage,
character. Under extraordinary circumstances" - the only reference
to what happened in the summer - "She stepped up and embodied what is
possible when guided by a strong moral compass and guided by a vision
for a nation that is more free". No reference to a massive defeat and no
reference to the fact that perhaps he stayed around too long, Ameshia
Cross? He is the still the sitting president of the United States. He
is not going to mention the vote tally or which states were and were
not in play. That would be out of lockstep with how presidents respond
in cases like this. This is not the first sitting president who has lost
in an election cycle and he will not be the last, but he had to say
something. We will probably not hear from him about this again until he
is out of office. Lakshya Jain, what should the Democrats learn from this
defeat in terms of inspiring a coalition of voters and talking to
Republican voters and listening to them ahead of the next US
presidential election? There are a couple of takeaways they can take
from this. But the first lesson should be to internalise that trends
are not fixed. You cannot assume voters are part of your coalition
and that coalitions are much more malleable than anybody wants to
admit. Seven years ago, no one on planet Earth would have thought
Donald Trump would get 45% of the Latino vote. If you understand that
voters are far more movable, you can reach out to them with something
that appeals to them. You can look at the economic issues that motivate
them. You can see what they have reacted against, but until you
realise that votes are there for you to get and that you cannot take
votes for granted, that another party can say, we offer something
more, that your voters can feel dissatisfied, they are not going to
get better. So they have to learn that there voters can go for the
other party, but also that they can get them back. They can get the
white working class voters that Obama lost, even. Piers Morgan, this
is something that bewilders people in the UK and elsewhere. 72 million
can vote for a convicted felon who tells lies, with a history of sexual
assault. Explain. Well, let's take the conviction. Donald Trump was the
first American president in history to ever be dragged through a
criminal court and be convicted of a crime. What was that crime? The
crime was that he shuffled a bit of paperwork over an alleged one night
stand that he still denies with a porn star 18 years ago. No, I am not
going to let you get away with that. It was 34 counts of falsifying
business records in the run-up to the 2016 campaign, found guilty. You
can't just dismiss that. Here is my response. I thought the whole thing
was a joke. It doesn't matter whether you think it was a joke. Let
me finish! When Bill Clinton, a Democrat president, was a sitting
president, he had sex with an intern in the Oval Office and lied about it
to the American people. He also paid off Paula Jones, £850,000 to settle
a sexual harassment case. So there is a clear double standard which was
not lost on the American people. It was an absurd overreach to drag an
American president through a criminal court over something so
trivial, and so did the American people. The general weaponisation of
the justice system against Trump, you can chart the way his polls
began to go upwards from the moment that started, and they kept going
the more times he was dragged into court.
court. And now he is president, nothing is going to happen about it.
He is due to be sentenced at the end of November. The American people
just were not buying it. If you look at all the polling on the Stormy
Daniels case, they mostly thought it was a joke. So you can weaponise the
system against him, you can try and put him in jail, but all it did was
help get Trump a massive majority. So from a political point of view,
it was a spectacular act of self-harm by the Democrats. Ameshia
Cross is laughing at what you are saying. What is going to happen with
the sentencing for the charges for falsifying business records? It is
due at the end of November. His new York charges would continue to go
on. The rest of them are all but dead. He was charged in real
multiple jurisdictions with various different cans. The felony counts he
had and convictions he had in New York will come to bear. But a lot of
the strength were now begun because he is again going to walk into the
presidency. These are of course court sketches of Donald Trump in
court. Thank you, all of you.
So how does Donald Trump see America's relationship
with the rest of the globe during his
second Presidential term?
Here's what he had to say during the Presidential campaign back
in September, when he met Ukrainian President Zelensky.
He seemed certain he was going to win this week. We have a very good
relationship, and I also have a good relationship with President Putin
and if we win, we are going to get a result quickly. I hope we have more
good relations. It takes two to tango, you know. We are going to
have a good meeting today. We are going to sit down and discuss it. If
we have a win, I think long before January the 20th, before I would
take the presidency on January the 20th, we can work out something that
is good for both sides. And by the way of the President knows that too.
He wants to get something done. He doesn't want to do this. Piers
Morgan, what does this victory mean for President Zelensky of Ukraine
and the Ukrainian people? It is hard. Trump is a deal-maker, not an
ideologue. I also know because he has told me repeatedly that he
thinks was are bad for business. He comes at this from a business
perspective, not from ideology. He will want to do a deal because he
recognises, as most people do and are looking at what has happened in
Ukraine this year, that it has reached an ugly stalemate with
endless deaths every day on both sides and something has to be
sorted. It can't go on like this unless you want to see endless
people being killed in a meat grinder scenario and a stalemate. So
I think he feels there is a deal to be done. I don't know what
conversations he has had with Zelensky, but knowing Trump and what
a big ego he has, it is unlikely that the first act he would want to
do as president, and he said he would sort this before he even gets
inaugurated, would be to give Vladimir Putin a win. That is not in
Trump's DNA to allow that to happen or to allow "Putin gets win on
Trump's watch" in his first year. So a deal may be done that the
Ukrainians have to stomach to end the bloodshed. All of us would like
to see the war ended. A similar thing may happen with Israel and the
war with Hamas. Trump is coming in at a time when the world would like
both of those was to be brought to an end, and he is a deal-maker.
Let's introduce Gordon Sondland.
Gordon Sondland served as President Trump's ambassador
to the EU during his first term, and David Frum is a political
commentator for The Atlantic.
He wrote speeches for President George W
Bush, but today you quit the Republican Party
in protest at Trump's victory.
Why? I campaign for Ronald Reagan in 1980 and for George W Bush. I'm a
free trader but I believe in alliances and I believe we are a
strong presence in the world to uphold American values. The
Republican Party has clearly said it is opposed to everything I have ever
believed in, so I don't belong there. Mr Sunderland, will the
Ukrainians have to stomach some sort of deal and will it mean Vladimir
Putin can keep the territory he has in Ukraine? Firstly, I'm
disappointed to lose David because the party is evolving. I don't think
it has put everything in the garbage that you believe in, but that's for
another time. As far as Ukraine is concerned, I don't believe for a
minute that Donald Trump wants another flare-up during his term. I
believe he is going to back Zelensky. He will sit down with
Putin and make a half-hearted attempt to make a deal which will go
nowhere and he is going to let Zelensky use the weapons he has got
that the Biden administration provided him. So when he said he
could sort this in 24 hours, what did he mean? That was campaign talk.
So that was rubbish? It wasn't a lie. What was it, then? When he
says, I'm going to do something in 24 hours, he means, I am not going
to let this become a protracted issue. I am going to move
decisively. Nothing can get done in 24 hours. So we shouldn't believe
what comes out of his mouth? It has always been hyperbole. I think he
was telling the truth. He will settle this quickly and the only way
it can be settled quickly is by betraying Ukraine and forcing
Ukraine to surrender and seek terms with Russia was that it's not like
this is theoretical. We know what he recently did. At Trump's 's behest,
his party, for nine months, blockading aid to Ukraine and
Israel. Thousands of Ukrainian soldiers died as a result of the tax
a blockade, because he has made it clear. Maybe it is not ideology. As
Piers Morgan said, he is not ideological, but there is a
connection between Donald Trump and Vladimir Putin. The nature of that
connection is unclear, but it is intense. It is one of the most
consistent thing about him. He has always done what Putin wants since
he entered public life. I could not disagree more. There is no
connection. Most of his predecessors condemned Putin the way the
orthodoxy requires, and Putin sits in the Kremlin laughs. What Trump
does is the opposite. He compliments poor, which puts Putin back on his
heels. Why is this guy paying fealty to me? But then in private, in
telephone calls and meetings, he says, don't go into Vladimir, --
don't go into Ukraine, Vladimir, or I will have to bomb the crap out of
you. So is it not possible, the way Mr Sondland described it? He will
threaten Vladimir Putin. Privately. Privately, fine. So you are saying
Mr Putin will go, I don't want to be threatened by you, Donald, I admire
you, I'm going to withdraw Russian forces from Ukraine? It is too late
now. What do you mean? Now that Biden has allowed to happen what is
happening by talking about minor incursions, which gave the Russians
the green light to invade. Just remember, Vladimir Putin's factory
default setting was, I am getting Ukraine was that are you suggesting
he is going to let Putin keep Crimea and east of Ukraine? It is going to
be far more nuanced. The war is not about territory, is about the
existence of an independent Ukrainian state with an independent
foreign policy.
Trump has never seen anything as relationships of mutual benefit, he
sees it as predation. He doesn't believe in free trade and everything
has a winner or loser. With the Zelensky he blackmailed him. I gave
no such testimony before Congress. His relationships with other
partners is going to be predatory. What Donald Trump understands with
the United States is the opposite of what Ronald Reagan said. He sees it
as a country entirely without a moral dimension. When Bill O'Reilly
asked him about the moral dimension he said, we are killers too, we are
just like Russia. That is the way he sees the powers of the world. He
wants to be one of the great powers, he sees himself as a master. People
voted for him because they don't want words either, they don't want
to be spending dollars in Ukraine. They want to protect, someone to
look out for US interests. We can't ever get into the aggregation of
what 70 million people do but we don't know why they did what they
did but we know what they're going to get. Tariffs, the crackup of the
American alliance system, the abandonment of Ukraine. He doesn't
have to pull out of Nato but he is going to do again what he did as
president in 2016 saying if Russia attacks on Estonia I will not defend
it. That is it. And what was the result, Nato upping defence
spending. Europe is going to need its own nuclear deterrent because it
cannot trust the United States. Let me interject. Jens Stoltenberg in a
moment of candour said the best views collector I have ever had and
that sums it up. The problem with David's worldview is first of all
you can never take Donald Trump literally. You just can't. The
hyperbole is baked in. Your point, which is the right one, leave aside
the rhetoric and what actually happened to? During his four-year
term our borders were generally secure, black unemployment was at an
all-time low, interest rates were at an all-time low, inflation was at
about zero, and our enemies believed when we threaten them. That
disappeared. I wrote speeches for the president. There is no
difference between words and deeds, a president's words are his deeds
and if his words are not credible and he does not say what he means
then he has deprived himself of his most important tool. Donald Trump
does say what he means. He is a predator, he opposes free trade and
alliances, he sees the world is one of the strong and the weak, and he
doesn't see allies and partners. He only sees suckers to be used. Piers
Morgan, you sound sanguine about Ukraine and the Donald Trump's
approach. I want to put the words of Malcolm Turnbull to you, former
Australian Prime Minister. Regarding Trump's view of Vladimir Putin he
said he is like an admiring 12-year-old boy, it is creepy. He
has called him a genius and savvy, is Trump's description of Putin, you
don't worry about that? What did Putin do on Trump's watching his
first term as president? Nothing. I judge actions not words. He had
already invaded Crimea. Hang on, he invaded Crimea in 2014. Not under
Donald Trump and then Donald Trump comes in and does nothing about it.
My point is this, he didn't invade Ukraine when Trump was president.
That might be a total coincidence or it might be because actually Trump
has these guys like Xi Jinping and Kim Jong-un in a strange place where
he wants to be friendly to them in public but perhaps they find him
unpredictable and are not quite sure what he may do if they pull any
levers on him. In relation to Nato, very important to remember what
happened. Trump said Nato would become obsolete if the members
didn't pay their dues. The media ran with what I knew was a disingenuous
interpretation, that he wanted to get rid of Nato. What he said was
why should America keep paying the lion's share of natal money, which
they do anyway, to defend all these countries immediately. And in the
end what happened, exactly what we discussed. The member countries now
pay their dues which makes Nato stronger and not obsolete, so again
tone take everything Trump says in the moment literally. Judge him on
his actions. You keep taking him literally, it is a euphemism for a
percentage of GDP spending. I am sorry to be so old-fashioned that I
take literally what politicians say. Very naive, Victoria. The Europeans
all joke that the Europeans enjoy an incredible lifestyle and an
incredible social safety net, thanks largely to the US largest being the
main benefactor of Nato. If that were not to occur, if Europe had to
shoulder that burden on their own, and I am not suggesting they should
and I'm not suggesting we withdraw from Nato or even reduce our own
commitment, but where are they to do that, all of a sudden instead of
spending 2-3% of GDP they would have to spend 8-9%. It is not just about
Europe, Donald Trump said he regarded Taiwan is impossible to
defend. It is not just Europe and not just Mexico, which he said he
would attack and fire missiles at, and his Vice President-elect said
the same thing. But he has made it clear that Taiwan is going to be on
its own so allies around the world that he has met, because he is mad
at them for selling is great computer chips. It is not just
European allies but all American allies especially democratic ones
who take bribes. Thank you very much for being back with his Newsnight
and talking to our British viewers. We appreciate your time.
Earlier this week I spoke to Robert and Erica Nix -
a married couple who were split on the
issue of who to vote for.
Here's what they had to say.
I and in the garden of the Philadelphia home of Robert and
Erica Nix. Tell our viewers the unusual thing about you. I have been
a lifelong Republican for 44 years and I am voting for Harris at this
time. I voted for Trump in 2016 but I am voting for Biden in 2020 and
Harris in 2024. I will come back to you. Tell our viewers about
yourself. I voted for Reagan after much research in the 80s and I have
remained a devout Republican. I think she has fallen victim, the
same as the MAGA movement, when you drink the Kool-Aid you will see
nothing else but that. We all watched it on January the 6th, the
world seeing us turn into a banana republic is what it looked like to
me.
And I'm pleased to say Robert and Erica are with me again now -
has your relationship survived the past 24 hours?
We survived. We cancelled out each other's votes yesterday but we
survived. And how did you react, to the result? For me of course it was
very disappointing. It is not so much disappointing in the fact that
he won again but that so many of my fellow countrymen voted for him for
a second term in office. Back to me is disappointing and scary, the
direction of where we are heading as a nation. I don't even think he
represents the Republican party, more of a far right ultranationalist
movement and we have fallen for it. I heard David speaking before you
and I agree with him, exactly like him except I stayed a Republican and
I will try and stay defects of the party. I am more of the Liz Cheney
republic and that this point, on the outside but not giving up.
outside but not giving up. He is not giving up on the party that you
support, the leader that you support, who has changed the
Republican party beyond comprehension, according to your
husband. Yes. We will welcome him back if he decides to leave. I don't
think the Republican party has changed all that much. I think we
still hold conservative values and I think Donald Trump represents that
in some ways but the majority of Trump voters that I know were more
concerned about the idea of putting America first. Stop giving money to
foreign words that we have no business being involved with,
putting money back into our economy, creating some confidence in our
economy and our ability to be independent. I am still the same
Republican I was. I am not a MAGA crook, I am not a Kool-Aid drinker,
just an average person who wants my country to succeed. Thank you,
really appreciate you talking as again. Good luck.
Let's speak to Fred Trump III, Donald Trump's nephew, who has
written a book critical of his uncle and he voted for Kamala Harris.
I did. And earlier this year you told your story on the political
advert. This is my uncle Donald and this is my son William.
How did you feel about that? How would any parent feel about that?
How would somebody feel if a person said that about another human being,
least alone your grand nephew who as I mentioned Donald has never met,
never asked to meet. You have described your uncle as crazy. Our
millions and millions of Americans crazy in your view for voting for
him? I don't understand why many of them do it. I think they want to
believe in what he is selling them, in a way. But that is politics.
Kamala Harris and Donald Trump, they sell policies and voters either vote
for them or don't. I look at the vision as a forward moving thing,
not something that we had a horrible country. America is a great country
and we don't have to make it great again. There are problems, no doubt
about it. What will be going through Donald Trump's mind right now, and
his close family, the people who love and support him? I am not
saying I don't love Donald. He is my uncle, he is my Father's younger
brother. I spent many good times with Donald over the years. What
most people say about my book is that it is a nuanced representation
of Donald. Not a hit piece but a personal accounting of my
relationship with him. Do I disagree with him on policy? Absolutely. I
have always voted Democrat because of policies. Character this year has
really played a role in my decision making. Starting with January the
6th, and leading up to what Donald said not just about William, my son,
but in the Oval Office in 2020 saying that people with disabilities
that are costing the Government money should just die. Fred Trump,
we are out of time, thank you for being with us.
Piers Morgan is still with us.
Maybe see you back in London. My pleasure. Thank you.
Newsnight is back in London with Faisal tomorrow, but that's it
from all of us in Washington.
This has surely been the most dramatic comeback
in US political history.
Four years after leaving
the White House, Donald Trump is set to move back in
after voters gave him another term.
The campaign was one for the history books: he survived two assassination
attempts and President Joe Biden dropped out just months
before election day.
From all of the team, thanks for watching, good night.