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Subtitles downloaded from www.OpenSubtitles.org

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There are would-be murderers all round the world

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who want to kill you and me and themselves,

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because they are motivated by what
they think is the highest ideal.

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Of course politics are important,

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lraq, Palestine, even social
deprivation in Bradford,

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but as we wake up to this huge challenge
to our civilised values

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don't lets forget the elephant in the room,
an elephant called religion.

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The suicide bomber is convinced
that in killing for his God,

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he will be fast-tracked to
a special martyrs' heaven.

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This isn't just a problem of lslam.

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In this program I want
to examine that dangerous thing

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that is common to Judaism
and Christianity as well

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the process of nonthinking called faith.

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I am a scientist, and I believe there is a profound
contradiction between science and religious belief.

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There is no well-demonstrated reason
to believe in god

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and I think that the idea of a divine creator
belittles the elegant reality of the universe.

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The 21st century should be an age of reason, yet
irrational, militant faith is back on the march.

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Religious extremism is implicated in the world's
most bitter and unending conflicts.

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"We want the non-Muslims off the lands of
Mohammad. We want the kafir out of it."

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America, too, has its own fundamentalists.

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"The Issue for the next generation is
going to be the islamification of Europe."

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And in Britain, even as we live
in the shadow of holy terror,

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our government wants to restrict
our freedom to criticise religion.

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Science, we are told, should not tread
on the toes of theology.

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But why should scientists
tiptoe respectfully away?

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The time has come for the people of reason
to say enough is enough.

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Religious faith discourages independent thought,
it's divisive and it's dangerous.

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Root of All Evil?

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The God Delusion

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lt looks lovely doesn't it?
Inoffensive and gentle.

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But isn't this the beginning
of that slippery slope

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that leads to young men with
rucksack bombs on the Tube?

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If you want to experience
the mediaeval rituals of faith,

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the candle light, incense, music,
important-sounding dead languages,

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nobody does it better than the Catholics.

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At Lourdes in southern France, the assault
 on the senses appeals to us not to think, 

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not to doubt, not to probe.

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And if we can retain our faith against the evidence,
in the teeth of reality, the more virtuous we are.

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Pretty impressive sight isn't it? I could imagine
finding it very seductive,

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partly because of the tremendous feeling of group
solidarity that there must be.

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If you have the delusion 
that you're Napoleon, 

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it must be fairly a lonely feeling 
because nobody else agrees with you.

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Your faith that you are Napoleon
 needs a lot of shoring up.

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But these people here, thousands of people all
have exactly the same delusion,

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and that must give wonderful
 reinforcement to their faith.

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I used to think reason had 
won the war against superstition

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but it's quite shaking to witness the faithful
droves trooping through Lourdes.

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This is a benign herd but it supports 
a backward belief system

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that I believe reason must challenge.

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Daylight reveals more of this shrine,

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where a myth is perpetuated that a virgin 
who gave birth, Christ's mother Mary,

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appeared here once to an impressionable, 
and I do mean impressionable, young girl.

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The faithful make the pilgrimage 
here because they believe

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that terrible afflictions can be cured by dragging
their poor bodies up to a pool of water

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where the Virgin Mary made 
her miraculous appearance.

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In reality, they're probably more likely to catch
something from thousands of other pilgrims

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who've wallowed in the same water.

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Is it something that Catholics feel 
they ought to do in their life, 

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rather like Muslims
going on the Hajj to Mecca?

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Well no, but you don't have 
to be a Catholic to do it you see,

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I know a lot of people that are not
Catholics at all and they've been here.

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And what are you hoping to get out of it?

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Well I've got a lot out of it: I've got faith, 
I've got trust and a belief that

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there is a person out there who is
 stronger than any medical person.

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Right. What about a cure though?

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It may seem tough to question these poor
desperate peoples' faith,

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but isn't bracing truth better than false hope?

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What is the evidence for any miracles?

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There are actually 66 declared miracles, there 
are about 2000 unexplained cures here,

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but then we would say there are millions of people
who have been healed in different ways.

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healed in some sort of mental way?

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Healed in spiritual ways where people who have
come to terms with their own particular situation,

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people who have rediscovered
 God in their lives again,

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 people who have received
 a new grace here in Lourdes.

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So you tend to get 
about 80,000 people per year?

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About 80,000 sick pilgrims 
who come here every year.

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That's been going for more than a century now?
About a century and half? - Yes.

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So, 80,000 per year, and of those 66 
have been cured. I just want to ... 

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...you see the way I'm thinking.
- Yep.

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So the hard fact is that over the years,

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with their millions of pilgrims, 
there have been 66 supposed miracles.

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Statistically, it adds up to no evidence at all.

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I cant help remarking that nobody has ever had 
a miraculous re-growing of a severed leg.

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The cures are always things that might
 have got better anyway.

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People lean on their faith as a crutch, 

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but I fear that the comfort it 
provides is a shallow pretence,

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and I want to look at how the suspension
 of disbelief inherent in faith 

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can lead to far more
dangerous ideas beyond.

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People like to say that faith and science can live
together side by side, but I don't think they can.

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They're deeply opposed.

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Science is a discipline of investigation
 and constructive doubt, 

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questing with logic, evidence
and reason to draw conclusions.

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Faith, by stark contrast, demands a positive
suspension of critical faculties.

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Science proceeds by setting up hypotheses, ideas
or models, and then attempts to disprove them.

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So a scientist is constantly asking questions,
being sceptical.

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Religion is about turning untested
 belief into unshakable truth, 

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through the power of institutions
and the passage of time.

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Let me give you an example of this with 
a story of the assumption of Mary.

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Catholics believe that Jesus' mother Mary was so
important she didn't physically die.

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lnstead, her body shot off into heaven when her life
came to a natural end.

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Of course there is no evidence for this, even the
Bible says nothing about how Mary died.

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The belief that her body was lifted into heaven
emerged about six centuries after Jesus' time.

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Made up, like any tale, 
and spread by word of mouth.

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But it became established tradition.

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lt was handed down over centuries.

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And the odd thing about tradition
 is that the longer it's been going, 

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the more people seem to take it seriously.

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lt's as though sheer passage of time makes
something that was to begin with just made up,

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turns it into what people believe as a fact.

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By 1950, the tradition was so strongly 
established that it became official truth. 

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It became authority.

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The Vatican decreed
that Roman Catholics must now believe

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 in the doctrine of the Assumption of the Virgin.

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Now if you had asked Pope Pious XII 
how he knew it was the truth,

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he would have said you had
 to take his word for it

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because it had been 
''revealed to him'' by God.

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He shut himself away and thought about it. 

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He just thought, private thoughts
 inside his own head,

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and convinced himself that, 

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no doubt on tortuous theological
 grounds, that it just had to be so.

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None of this is particularly harmful 

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when it is limited to the 
Virgin Mary going to heaven.

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But what about the Pope's personal
 convictions when it comes to,

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 say, discouraging the use of
condoms in AIDS-ridden Africa?

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Then, the power of the church
 through tradition, authority 

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and revelation comes with 
an appalling human cost.

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It would be unfair to pick on the Catholics. 

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All religions are up to the same tricks.

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It could be Muslim Imams issuing fatwahs, 
it's the same principle.

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It's issued by the authority, it then passes 
down through the ranks to parents, 

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to children, and all
without a shred of evidence.

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Unlike science, which sees it as a challenge,
religion thrives on unsolved mystery.

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For early humanity, what was mysterious and
unexplained was so vast

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that only an equally vast higher being,

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 an Alpha male in the sky, 
could fill that gap.

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How would our ancestors have
 responded to the sunrise?

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There must be a fiery charioteer, a Sun God, to
accept our sacrifices.

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A supreme being who, on the first day 
of creation, announced ''let there be light''.

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But scientific investigation
 has rolled back that mystery.

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Today we know the sun
 is a giant nuclear reactor.

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One of billions of stars pumping out
 electromagnetic radiation, heat and light.

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How do scientists know
 the things that they know 

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about the world and the universe?

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How do we know, for instance,
 that the Earth is 4.5 billion years old

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and that it orbits the sun that nourishes it?

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How do we know that these dinosaurs 
are hundreds of millions of years old?

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The answer is evidence.

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 Tons and tons 
of mutually supporting evidence.

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Science is about testing, comparing and
corroborating this mass of evidence,

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and using it to update old theories 
of how things work.

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I do remember one formative influence
 in my undergraduate life.

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There was an elderly professor 
in my department

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who had been passionately keen on a particular
theory for a number of years.

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And one day an American 
visiting researcher came,

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and he completely and utterly disproved 
our old man's hypothesis.

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The old man strode to the front, 
shook his hand and said, ''My dear fellow,

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 I wish to thank you. I have
been wrong these 15 years.''

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And we all clapped our hands raw. 

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That was the scientific ideal

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of somebody who had a lot invested, 

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a lifetime almost invested in a theory,

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and he was rejoicing that 
he had been shown wrong, 

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and scientific truth had been advanced.

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So what does the overwhelming evidence of 
all these fossils tell sceptical science?

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How did we and every creature get here, 
in all our improbable diversity?

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In past centuries, humanity had no choice
 but to resort to a supernatural hypothesis.

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Among the many creation
myths around the world,

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the Book of Genesis imagined a designer God

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who fashioned the world 
and life in just six days.

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Finally, in the 19th century, science pieced
 together what had really happened.

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Charles Darwin hit upon a truly brilliant idea

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that elegantly explains all of life on earth, 

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without any need to invoke
 the supernatural or the divine.

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Here's a helpful way to look 
at the problem Darwin faced.

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Climbing a mountain. 
Let's call it Mount Improbable.

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Let's say at the bottom we have the simple 
bacterial beginnings of lifeon earth.

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At the top, man today,
 or any complicated piece of biology.

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So how did we get to the top?

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If it had happened by blind
 chance or by design,

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lt would be equivalent to leaping up 
a sheer cliff in a single bound.

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Utterly out of the question.

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If we come round the other
 side of Mount Improbable,

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we find something very different.

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Here, there is no sudden precipitous cliff,

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here there's a gentle slope, 
a gradient of evolution.

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All we have to do is put one foot in front 
of the other and we'll get to the top.

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Darwin's great insight was that
 life evolved steadily and slowly,

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inching its way gradually
 over four billion years.

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Natural selection, not a divine designer, 
was the sculptor of life.

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So evolution, driven by Darwin's 
motor of natural selection,

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gets us to the top of Mount Improbable.

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From primeval simplicity 
to ultimate complexity.

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The design hypothesis couldn't 
even begin to do that,

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because it raises an even 
bigger problem than it solves:

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who made the designer?

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The abundance and variety of life
 on earth may seem improbable

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but it's self-evidently futile 
to invent an improbable god

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 to explain that very improbability.

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l thought that in my lifetime 
evolution would be accepted

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and taught around the world 
as a scientific fact,

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supported by overwhelming evidence.

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But unfortunately, the whole point about faith

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is that even massive and constantly 
accumulating physical evidence cuts no ice.

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Evolution today is under threat.

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ln the Bible Belt of middle America, 

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evangelical Christians are
 fighting back against science.

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In the new world, religion is free enterprise.

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Rival groups set up shop 
on every street corner,

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competing to save people's
 souls and collect their money.

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Fundamentalist Christianity is 
on the rise among the electorate

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of the world's only super power.

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Right up to and including the President (Bush).

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If you believe the surveys,
 45% of Americans,

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that's about 135 million people,

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believe the universe is less
 than 10,000 years old.

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This is the New Life Church
 in Colorado Springs.

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Where conservative Christians have built 

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an 18 million dollar worship center

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as their new Jerusalem, in the 
foothills of the Rocky Mountains.

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Evangelical churches like this 
have become a powerful lobby, 

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exerting enormous influence 
on everything in America

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from the teaching of science
 in schools, to foreign policy.

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This place strains belief.

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It isn't just a church but 
a ready-made social network.

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The 12,000 strong congregation can 
also attend 1,300 organized programs

227
00:19:46,544 --> 00:19:49,121
where they can meet
 to exchange Christian tips

228
00:19:49,156 --> 00:19:52,294
on everything from marriage
 to dog walking.

229
00:19:58,226 --> 00:20:00,974
It's all terribly exuberant and intense.

230
00:20:01,009 --> 00:20:03,296
Much less tradition here than in Lourdes,

231
00:20:04,378 --> 00:20:07,523
but plenty of swaggering authority.

232
00:20:15,340 --> 00:20:18,913
The pastor is Ted Haggard. 
A powerful man.

233
00:20:18,948 --> 00:20:22,208
Chairman of the
 National Association of Evangelicals

234
00:20:22,243 --> 00:20:27,183
and the New Life is Ted's evangelical Vatican.

235
00:20:27,218 --> 00:20:30,011
''Welcome to all of our friends! 

236
00:20:30,046 --> 00:20:32,311
Take a moment and say hello 
to the people behind you,

237
00:20:32,346 --> 00:20:35,459
 in front of you, to your right,
 to your left.''

238
00:20:36,812 --> 00:20:39,924
''Hey we wanna welcome all of you 
that are visiting here with us today, 

239
00:20:39,959 --> 00:20:41,386
if you are here for the very first time,''

240
00:20:41,421 --> 00:20:44,229
''we have a packet of information 
that we wanna give to you ...''

241
00:20:47,064 --> 00:20:50,268
Sadly, the warmth of the 
welcome would prove short-lived

242
00:20:50,303 --> 00:20:55,403
when I started talking to Pastor Haggard 
about the Bible and scientific fact.

243
00:20:56,448 --> 00:20:59,792
You will find yourself wrong on some things,
right on some other things.

244
00:20:59,827 --> 00:21:03,307
But please, in the process of it.
DonŽt be arogant.

245
00:21:03,342 --> 00:21:05,918
We exalt
 you here this morning, Lord God.

246
00:21:05,953 --> 00:21:09,529
Everything that's within us wants 
to give you praise and glory and honor, 

247
00:21:09,564 --> 00:21:11,821
'cos we are so grateful for ...

248
00:21:11,856 --> 00:21:13,901
The New Life Church in Colorado Springs 

249
00:21:13,936 --> 00:21:17,305
is a bastion of American 
religious conservatism.

250
00:21:17,940 --> 00:21:21,093
''Thank you for transforming our lives. 
Thank you, Lord God, for ...''

251
00:21:21,128 --> 00:21:26,611
I've come to try to understand why 
what I see as irrational faith is thriving.

252
00:21:26,646 --> 00:21:29,472
And why it's attacking science.

253
00:21:29,872 --> 00:21:32,366
'' ... and in Jesus' name we pray. 
And everybody says Amen!'' 

254
00:21:32,401 --> 00:21:33,418
''Amen!''

255
00:21:33,453 --> 00:21:36,482
''Welcome to the United States!''
- Thank you very much.

256
00:21:36,517 --> 00:21:41,430
Pastor Ted Haggard has a hotline 
to God and to George Bush.

257
00:21:41,465 --> 00:21:46,209
A staunch Republican, he claims he has
a weekly conference call with the President,

258
00:21:46,244 --> 00:21:50,772
and has also rubbed shoulders 
with Tony Blair and Ariel Sharon.

259
00:21:51,661 --> 00:21:53,632
Well that was really quite 
a show you gave us today.

260
00:21:53,667 --> 00:21:55,691
A fair bit of money seems
 to have been spent here.

261
00:21:55,726 --> 00:22:00,205
Yes. I wanted people to be 
able to worship and enjoy it,

262
00:22:00,240 --> 00:22:03,650
and be in a setting where 
the speaker is close to them,

263
00:22:03,685 --> 00:22:06,814
that's why it's in the round, 
and so they can be up close to me

264
00:22:06,849 --> 00:22:07,950
and so l can look at them.

265
00:22:07,985 --> 00:22:10,081
Well it's certainly very effective, 
what you do,

266
00:22:10,116 --> 00:22:13,168
I mean, it seemed to me 
you have all the arts of ..

267
00:22:13,203 --> 00:22:14,613
I mean, I was almost reminded me,

268
00:22:14,648 --> 00:22:16,869
 if you'll forgive me,
 of a sort of Nuremberg rally. I mean ...

269
00:22:16,904 --> 00:22:18,287
such incredibly ... 

270
00:22:18,322 --> 00:22:20,541
Doctor Goebbels would have
been proud.

271
00:22:20,576 --> 00:22:23,088
Well I don't know anything 
about the Nuremberg rallies, 

272
00:22:23,123 --> 00:22:26,272
but I know lots of Americans 
think of it as a rock concert.

273
00:22:48,032 --> 00:22:49,603
When I prepare a presentation, 

274
00:22:49,638 --> 00:22:52,983
I don't prepare  it to get 
a group of lunatics to come in 

275
00:22:53,018 --> 00:22:55,625
and just say ''oh yes Pastor Ted,
 you're just so wonderful,

276
00:22:55,660 --> 00:22:57,087
I believe everything you say''. 

277
00:22:57,122 --> 00:22:58,682
I would be opposed to that.

278
00:22:58,717 --> 00:23:00,313
Here the Bible says '... 

279
00:23:00,348 --> 00:23:04,903
who have been chosen according 
to the foreknowledge of God, the Father,

280
00:23:04,938 --> 00:23:09,063
this is talking about us, 
we've been chosen for ...

281
00:23:09,098 --> 00:23:10,838
what's that word there Betty?

282
00:23:10,873 --> 00:23:12,618
''Obedience.''
- ''Say it out loud.''

283
00:23:12,653 --> 00:23:14,965
''Obedience!''
- ''Okay, so we have been chosen ...''

284
00:23:15,000 --> 00:23:17,548
Every person needs, at the center, 
some sense of meaning about existence.

285
00:23:17,583 --> 00:23:21,117
It is life and death to us. 
It makes us who we are.

286
00:23:21,152 --> 00:23:24,527
Yet most of us, as we grow up and become
responsible adults,

287
00:23:24,562 --> 00:23:28,638
accept that life is complex, that we live
 in a world of subtle shades,

288
00:23:28,673 --> 00:23:30,860
not sharp black and white.

289
00:23:30,895 --> 00:23:33,304
I worry that these born-agains 

290
00:23:33,339 --> 00:23:37,862
are being persuaded
to return to childish certainties.

291
00:23:37,897 --> 00:23:40,386
The only truth they need is God,

292
00:23:40,421 --> 00:23:44,052
God as interpreted 
for them by their pastor.

293
00:23:44,087 --> 00:23:46,462
You've been set free from sin!

294
00:23:46,497 --> 00:23:47,319
Think about that!

295
00:23:47,354 --> 00:23:50,124
Everybody knows that we believe the
Bible's the word of God.

296
00:23:50,159 --> 00:23:54,617
And today I talked about love 
your neighbor as yourself.

297
00:23:54,652 --> 00:23:57,973
Now, I didn't have to produce evidence,

298
00:23:58,008 --> 00:24:00,762
sociological evidence or 
psychological evidence ...

299
00:24:00,797 --> 00:24:01,484
But you have a book, 

300
00:24:01,519 --> 00:24:03,652
How can you say
they're asked to think for themselves...

301
00:24:03,687 --> 00:24:05,369
...and they're told everything in this book is true?

302
00:24:05,404 --> 00:24:06,825
Because they don't have to believe that.

303
00:24:06,860 --> 00:24:09,656
The evidence that I presented 
you can go and read. 

304
00:24:09,691 --> 00:24:10,721
This book, it says one thing,

305
00:24:10,756 --> 00:24:12,083
that book says another,
 that book says another,

306
00:24:12,118 --> 00:24:13,500
that book contradicts the others ...

307
00:24:13,535 --> 00:24:15,303
Well the evidence I can present 
is we've got a book,

308
00:24:15,338 --> 00:24:17,904
written over 1500 years
 by 40 different authors, 

309
00:24:17,939 --> 00:24:20,773
on one subject, 
and it doesn't contradict itself.

310
00:24:20,808 --> 00:24:21,460
It doesn't?

311
00:24:21,495 --> 00:24:23,198
Where you cant give me two, 

312
00:24:23,233 --> 00:24:27,812
two experts in certain areas 
that are in the same generation,

313
00:24:27,847 --> 00:24:30,619
in the same area of study, 
that don't contradict themselves.

314
00:24:30,654 --> 00:24:31,578
That's the beauty of science. 

315
00:24:31,613 --> 00:24:34,898
We have lots of evidence, 
and the evidence is all the time coming in, 

316
00:24:34,933 --> 00:24:37,002
constantly changing our minds.

317
00:24:37,037 --> 00:24:40,446
Whereas you have one book which you say it
doesn't change ...

318
00:24:40,481 --> 00:24:41,054
Exactly.

319
00:24:41,089 --> 00:24:42,816
That's not getting them
 to think for themselves!

320
00:24:42,851 --> 00:24:46,006
... and we've all decided as a group, to go to the
holy place. True or false?

321
00:24:46,041 --> 00:24:46,697
(Congregatlon) True!

322
00:24:46,732 --> 00:24:49,403
True! Everybody say TRUE!

323
00:24:49,438 --> 00:24:49,949
''TRUE!''

324
00:24:49,984 --> 00:24:52,046
Alright then. That's the vote ...

325
00:24:52,081 --> 00:24:55,299
But my biggest concern
 is that evangelicals like Haggard 

326
00:24:55,334 --> 00:24:58,442
are foisting evident falsehoods on their flock.

327
00:24:58,477 --> 00:25:00,988
... are so wonderful, and so necessary,
that I wanna ...

328
00:25:01,023 --> 00:25:03,651
The evangelicals 
are denying scientific evidence 

329
00:25:03,686 --> 00:25:06,862
just to support Bronze Age myths.

330
00:25:06,897 --> 00:25:11,480
 ... alive in our lives. And then of course,
we need the power of the Holy Spirit.

331
00:25:11,515 --> 00:25:15,171
We fully embrace the scientific method, as
American evangelicals.

332
00:25:15,206 --> 00:25:20,069
And we think, as time goes along,
 as we discover more and more facts 

333
00:25:20,104 --> 00:25:24,266
that we'll learn more and more about 
how God created the heavens and the Earth.

334
00:25:24,301 --> 00:25:25,857
The scientific method clearly demonstrates

335
00:25:25,892 --> 00:25:29,008
that the world is 4.5 billion years old.
 I mean, do you accept that?

336
00:25:29,043 --> 00:25:34,202
Yeah, you know what you're doing is you are
accepting some of the views

337
00:25:34,237 --> 00:25:37,967
that are accepted in some portions 
of the scientific community, as fact.

338
00:25:38,002 --> 00:25:42,088
Where in fact, your grandchildren might listen 

339
00:25:42,123 --> 00:25:44,175
to the tape of you saying 
that and laugh at you.

340
00:25:44,210 --> 00:25:44,978
You want a bet?

341
00:25:45,013 --> 00:25:49,915
Sometimes it's hard for human being to
study the ear or study the eye,

342
00:25:49,950 --> 00:25:52,253
and think that
happened by accident.

343
00:25:52,288 --> 00:25:54,871
I beg you pardon? Did you say by accident?

344
00:25:54,906 --> 00:25:56,706
- Yeah.
 What do you mean, by accident?

345
00:25:56,741 --> 00:25:58,600
That the eye just formed itself somehow.

346
00:25:58,635 --> 00:26:01,244
- And who says it did?
Well, some evolutionists say it did.

347
00:26:01,279 --> 00:26:03,000
Not a single one that l've ever met.

348
00:26:03,035 --> 00:26:04,346
Really?
- Really.

349
00:26:04,381 --> 00:26:07,135
You obviously know nothing 
about the subject of evolution.

350
00:26:07,170 --> 00:26:09,240
Or maybe you haven't met the people I have.  

351
00:26:09,275 --> 00:26:14,501
But you see, you do understand,
you do understand that this issue right here

352
00:26:14,536 --> 00:26:17,935
of intellectual arrogance is the reason 

353
00:26:17,970 --> 00:26:22,800
why people like you have a difficult 
problem with people of faith.

354
00:26:22,835 --> 00:26:27,588
I don't communicate an air
 of superiority over the people

355
00:26:27,623 --> 00:26:29,545
because I know so much more,

356
00:26:29,580 --> 00:26:31,496
and if you only read the books I know, 

357
00:26:31,531 --> 00:26:33,661
and if you only knew the scientists I knew,

358
00:26:33,696 --> 00:26:35,919
then you would be great like me.

359
00:26:35,954 --> 00:26:40,241
Well, sir, there could be many 
things that you know well.

360
00:26:40,276 --> 00:26:42,480
There are other things 
that you don't know well.

361
00:26:42,515 --> 00:26:45,639
As you age, you'll find yourself 
wrong on some things, 

362
00:26:45,674 --> 00:26:47,186
right on some other things.

363
00:26:47,221 --> 00:26:51,157
But please, in the process, 
of it don't be arrogant.

364
00:26:56,591 --> 00:26:58,493
We just had a rather disconcerting experience.

365
00:26:58,528 --> 00:27:01,581
We were just packing up 
our stuff ready to go,

366
00:27:01,616 --> 00:27:05,640
when he suddenly drove up in
 his pick up truck and said,

367
00:27:05,675 --> 00:27:10,626
"Get of my land immediatelly", "IŽll have you
thrown in jail" and "IŽll have seize your film".

368
00:27:10,661 --> 00:27:12,420
And he then says a very curious thing, 
he said,

369
00:27:12,455 --> 00:27:14,710
"You called my children animals."

370
00:27:14,745 --> 00:27:17,712
Afterwards we worked out, 
that what he must have meant,

371
00:27:17,747 --> 00:27:19,820
 was that I talked about evolution.

372
00:27:19,855 --> 00:27:23,009
He thought that I was saying, 
that his flock were animals.

373
00:27:23,044 --> 00:27:25,972
Which of course in some sense I was,
 because all humans are all animals.

374
00:27:46,046 --> 00:27:47,261
Haggard's approach is to say

375
00:27:47,296 --> 00:27:50,328
let's teach evolution
as just another theory

376
00:27:50,363 --> 00:27:52,940
alongside the Bible's creation story.

377
00:27:52,975 --> 00:27:58,136
Or so-called Intelligent Design, which claims 
God helped evolution along.

378
00:27:58,171 --> 00:28:01,008
It sounds so reasonable, doesn't it?

379
00:28:05,970 --> 00:28:08,057
But of course it's nothing of the sort. 

380
00:28:08,092 --> 00:28:10,064
These are not equal theories.

381
00:28:10,099 --> 00:28:15,182
Evolution by natural selection is supported
 by mountains of evidence.

382
00:28:24,661 --> 00:28:17,534
While creation contradicts the evidence 

383
00:28:17,569 --> 00:28:21,294
and is only backed by 
some ancient scribblings.

384
00:28:24,558 --> 00:28:26,870
With Haggard and his followers
 on their doorstep,

385
00:28:26,905 --> 00:28:30,240
the rational atheist minority 
here feel so browbeaten, 

386
00:28:30,275 --> 00:28:33,937
that they've organized themselves into
what they call ''a freethinkers group'',

387
00:28:33,972 --> 00:28:39,449
which meets furtively, perhaps 
to fantasise about moving to Canada!

388
00:28:39,484 --> 00:28:41,116
How nice to meet you!

389
00:28:41,151 --> 00:28:44,289
Hey Richard! lt's wonderful! Welcome,
welcome, it's so good ...

390
00:28:44,324 --> 00:28:47,155
Do freethinkers in America feel pretty
beleaguered at the moment?

391
00:28:47,190 --> 00:28:52,801
I've had my fair share of vitriolic letters and
messages from parents

392
00:28:52,836 --> 00:28:56,909
saying that I'm Satan's incarnate
 for teaching evolution,

393
00:28:56,944 --> 00:29:00,024
and there are ministries here 
in Colorado Springs that indoctrinate

394
00:29:00,059 --> 00:29:04,358
students in summer programs
 to challenge biologists,

395
00:29:04,393 --> 00:29:07,605
biology teachers, in the classroom. And I've ...

396
00:29:07,640 --> 00:29:09,789
So it's an organised campaign to
challenge biology teachers?

397
00:29:09,824 --> 00:29:12,535
Oh they're organised campaigns, absolutely. 
I do not tolerate it, because I ...

398
00:29:12,570 --> 00:29:14,643
But they have this mindset that they are right.

399
00:29:14,678 --> 00:29:17,576
If a person comes out 
in this country as an atheist,

400
00:29:17,611 --> 00:29:19,884
they're likely to suffer career damage,

401
00:29:19,919 --> 00:29:22,479
they might lose a job, 
they might not get a job,

402
00:29:22,514 --> 00:29:25,009
they might lose an opportunity 
for an apartment.

403
00:29:25,044 --> 00:29:27,187
Waking up, as most Americans do, 

404
00:29:27,222 --> 00:29:30,715
very late on this,
 coming to a realisation,

405
00:29:30,750 --> 00:29:34,665
as we did during the McCarthy era, 
and even during ...

406
00:29:34,700 --> 00:29:36,052
It's very similar to the McCarthy era ...

407
00:29:36,087 --> 00:29:41,778
Yes, it is. We do begin now to see the
dangers of this extremism.

408
00:29:41,813 --> 00:29:43,313
Christian fascism isn't it?

409
00:29:43,348 --> 00:29:47,288
Yeah. And whatever mantle you want to give
it, which I've heard lately

410
00:29:47,323 --> 00:29:51,894
is ''domination theology'',
 ''dominion Christianity'' ...

411
00:29:51,929 --> 00:30:04,598
(Christian radio advertisements)

412
00:30:04,633 --> 00:30:08,776
Fundamentalist American
 Christianity is attacking science.

413
00:30:08,811 --> 00:30:10,941
But what is it offering instead?

414
00:30:10,976 --> 00:30:16,436
A mirror-image of islamic extremism, 
an American Taliban.

415
00:30:21,995 --> 00:30:25,099
We live in a time of lethal polarisation.

416
00:30:25,134 --> 00:30:28,420
When the great religions are pushing 
their conflict to a point where

417
00:30:28,455 --> 00:30:31,767
it is difficult to see how they
 can ever been reconciled.

418
00:30:31,802 --> 00:30:36,548
In New York, Madrid and London 
we've witnessed the religious insanities

419
00:30:36,583 --> 00:30:40,293
of the Middle East penetrate 
the heart of the secular west.

420
00:30:40,328 --> 00:30:45,539
(George W Bush voiceover)

421
00:30:45,574 --> 00:30:48,902
To understand the likes of Osama Bin Laden, 
you have to realise

422
00:30:48,937 --> 00:30:51,716
that the religious terrorism they inspire

423
00:30:51,751 --> 00:30:55,278
is the logical
outcome of deeply-held faith.

424
00:30:55,313 --> 00:30:57,323
Even so-called moderate believers

425
00:30:57,358 --> 00:30:59,769
are part of the
same religious fabric.

426
00:30:59,804 --> 00:31:04,076
They encourage unreason as a positive virtue.

427
00:31:06,936 --> 00:31:09,755
What's really scary is that 
religious warriors think 

428
00:31:09,790 --> 00:31:12,575
of what they are doing as the ultimate good.

429
00:31:12,610 --> 00:31:16,136
Those of us brought up in Christianity
 can soon get the message:

430
00:31:16,171 --> 00:31:18,859
'Onward Christian soldiers',
 'fight the good fight',

431
00:31:18,894 --> 00:31:22,873
'stand up! stand up for Jesus, 
ye soldiers of the cross!'

432
00:31:22,908 --> 00:31:24,526
But as far as I'm concerned, 

433
00:31:24,561 --> 00:31:26,989
the war between good and evil,

434
00:31:27,024 --> 00:31:30,721
is really just the war between two evils.

435
00:31:35,450 --> 00:31:37,155
This is the holy land, 

436
00:31:37,190 --> 00:31:42,127
where the terrible certainties
of faith began and still rage.

437
00:31:43,722 --> 00:31:47,657
I've come here because it's a microcosm
 of the religious conflicts 

438
00:31:47,692 --> 00:31:52,206
which threaten rational values
and civilisation.

439
00:31:54,751 --> 00:31:58,906
The dreadful combination of politics 
and extreme faith has caused the

440
00:31:58,941 --> 00:32:02,366
death of almost 4000 people here, 
in shootings,

441
00:32:02,401 --> 00:32:06,965
suicide bombings and reprisals 
in the last five years.

442
00:32:20,096 --> 00:32:21,650
Despite the troubles, 

443
00:32:21,685 --> 00:32:23,933
tourists still flock to Jerusalem,

444
00:32:23,968 --> 00:32:28,956
to places that their particular brand of religion
taught them to revere as a child.

445
00:32:28,991 --> 00:32:32,043
The Via Dolorosa, where Jesus 
was allegedly whipped 

446
00:32:32,078 --> 00:32:35,003
and beaten during the last hours of his life.

447
00:32:36,159 --> 00:32:38,335
Or the Muslim Dome of the Rock.

448
00:32:41,879 --> 00:32:47,656
Or the Western Wall, Judaism's,
and the world's, most holy ruin.

449
00:33:08,259 --> 00:33:11,107
On the surface, it looks like 
a place of harmless myth.

450
00:33:11,142 --> 00:33:13,632
Because here is the hill of Calvary, 

451
00:33:13,667 --> 00:33:16,752
where Jesus was crucified, 
and the tomb of Jesus.

452
00:33:16,787 --> 00:33:19,504
And here, what we are facing,

453
00:33:19,539 --> 00:33:22,302
to the stone of anointment, 
where the body of

454
00:33:22,337 --> 00:33:25,127
Jesus was taken down from the cross, 

455
00:33:25,162 --> 00:33:29,092
so this is the slab where Christ's
 body was anointed with oil.

456
00:33:29,127 --> 00:33:32,487
How do we know that? 
Is there any evidence that it was here?

457
00:33:32,522 --> 00:33:35,258
You see, this is by telling
 from person to person.

458
00:33:35,293 --> 00:33:36,270
It's tradition.

459
00:33:36,305 --> 00:33:38,467
Traditional, from generation to the next.

460
00:33:38,502 --> 00:33:43,850
We can see the hole where 
the cross was stood,

461
00:33:43,885 --> 00:33:46,561
Where they put(ing)
 the cross inside the hole,

462
00:33:46,596 --> 00:33:50,441
and this is the place where,
 the place of the crucifixion, 

463
00:33:50,476 --> 00:33:52,753
where Jesus died on the cross.

464
00:33:52,788 --> 00:33:54,939
You don't really believe that, do you?

465
00:33:54,974 --> 00:33:57,131
Ah, this is the Christians, as I explained to
you that they believe,

466
00:33:57,166 --> 00:33:59,787
this is the place where the
crucifixion took place.

467
00:33:59,822 --> 00:34:03,409
lf we come in closer
 to my side please, thank you.

468
00:34:03,444 --> 00:34:08,755
[The] guard of the tomb is a Greek priest. 
Guarding of tomb of Jesus.

469
00:34:08,790 --> 00:34:12,860
This is left from big part of the 
stone which closed the tomb, 

470
00:34:12,895 --> 00:34:16,403
What we call the rolling of angels. 

471
00:34:18,156 --> 00:34:21,059
Watch your head please, 
thank you very much.

472
00:34:23,373 --> 00:34:26,077
This is where he stayed, 
and rose from death, 

473
00:34:26,112 --> 00:34:29,373
we call it Sepulchre, is empty tomb.

474
00:34:31,002 --> 00:34:33,291
God bless you, you can touch[ing] the tomb, 

475
00:34:33,326 --> 00:34:35,187
you can make your prayer.

476
00:34:36,479 --> 00:34:39,909
I get four days off! You come here tomorrow...

477
00:34:41,996 --> 00:34:46,653
This holy city has to be one of the least
 enlightened places in the world.

478
00:34:46,688 --> 00:34:51,793
And it is also a place of barely 
suppressed religious hatreds.

479
00:34:51,828 --> 00:34:54,022
There will come the day and that day is now.

480
00:34:54,057 --> 00:34:56,717
When you are on our lands,
spreading these ideas,

481
00:34:56,752 --> 00:34:59,672
that the soldiers of Allah
will not put up with this.

482
00:35:02,944 --> 00:35:05,909
We live at a time 
when religious belief is fighting back

483
00:35:05,944 --> 00:35:08,926
against reason and scientific truth.

484
00:35:08,961 --> 00:35:10,998
This is a problem for all of us, 

485
00:35:11,033 --> 00:35:14,849
because religion's irrational 
roots nourish intolerance

486
00:35:14,884 --> 00:35:17,664
to the point of murder.

487
00:35:18,555 --> 00:35:20,208
I'm in Jerusalem's old city, 

488
00:35:20,243 --> 00:35:25,901
trying to understand the role deeply-held 
faith plays in the bitter conflict here.

489
00:35:28,541 --> 00:35:31,817
One of the first things you notice
 is the edgy watchfulness,

490
00:35:31,852 --> 00:35:35,574
the different ethnic and religious
 communities live cheek-by-jowl,

491
00:35:35,609 --> 00:35:38,906
but there are security checkpoints 
throughout the old city,

492
00:35:38,941 --> 00:35:43,053
and one section above all 
is under heavy guard.

493
00:35:44,596 --> 00:35:48,024
For the Muslims, the compound enclosing
 the Dome of the Rock and

494
00:35:48,059 --> 00:35:54,572
Al-Aqsa mosque is, after Mecca and Medina, 
the third holiest site in lslam.

495
00:35:54,607 --> 00:35:56,160
It was from here, they believe, 

496
00:35:56,195 --> 00:35:59,126
that the prophet
Mohammad flew up to heaven.

497
00:36:02,896 --> 00:36:05,343
As bad luck would have it,
 the Jews believe the same place 

498
00:36:05,378 --> 00:36:09,229
is the site of the long-destroyed first
and second temples,

499
00:36:09,264 --> 00:36:11,813
the holiest shrine in Judaism.

500
00:36:28,447 --> 00:36:31,846
Jews are not allowed to
 worship inside the compound,

501
00:36:31,881 --> 00:36:36,228
their prayers are restricted 
to the ruined western, or wailing, wall.

502
00:36:36,263 --> 00:36:39,908
''When Jesus came here 
to overturn the tables,

503
00:36:39,943 --> 00:36:41,794
there was no mosque in view.''

504
00:36:41,829 --> 00:36:44,135
''When the Arabs conquered 
this part of the world,

505
00:36:44,170 --> 00:36:47,382
they established the Al-Aqsa mosque.''

506
00:36:47,417 --> 00:36:53,354
And then they put over where
 we think is the main temple compound, 

507
00:36:53,389 --> 00:36:56,096
where the altar was, where the
holy of holy was,

508
00:36:56,131 --> 00:36:58,618
they put another building
 called the Dome of the Rock,

509
00:36:58,653 --> 00:37:04,475
it was not properly a mosque, 
and we at the present moment are

510
00:37:04,510 --> 00:37:10,754
simply not allowed in there, inside the compound,
identifiably as Jews.

511
00:37:12,523 --> 00:37:15,064
The Muslims reject these Jewish claims.

512
00:37:16,155 --> 00:37:20,659
And when Ariel Sharon entered the Temple Mount
area in the Year 2000:

513
00:37:20,694 --> 00:37:24,449
''I came here with a message of peace.''

514
00:37:24,484 --> 00:37:28,937
His visit sparked the second, 
or Al-Aqsa Intifada, 

515
00:37:28,972 --> 00:37:34,110
a Palestinian uprising that 
has cost 4000 lives so far.

516
00:37:44,630 --> 00:37:50,686
And if the Jews sincerely want
peace with the Arabs and Muslims,

517
00:37:50,721 --> 00:37:55,467
then they should stand away,
 keep away from the Al-Aqsa mosque.

518
00:37:55,502 --> 00:38:01,618
''In the Muslim religion, there is no possibility
anyway of sharing the territory.''

519
00:38:01,653 --> 00:38:06,078
If l come in there, in some far corner, 
far away from a mosque,

520
00:38:06,113 --> 00:38:10,281
in an open area, under a tree
somewhere, if a Muslim will catch me

521
00:38:10,316 --> 00:38:12,521
murmuring psalms or some other prayer,

522
00:38:12,556 --> 00:38:17,110
he will call the police
 to have me 'egressed', shall I say.

523
00:38:17,145 --> 00:38:19,880
As far as  the Al-Aqsa mosque is considered,

524
00:38:19,915 --> 00:38:24,130
there are no negotiations, 
absolutely no negotiations about it.

525
00:38:30,451 --> 00:38:38,404
Because no Muslim has the right, worldwide,
 to negotiate over the Al-Aqsa mosque.

526
00:38:46,605 --> 00:38:50,805
Again and again my conversations come
 back to the solid walls 

527
00:38:50,840 --> 00:38:54,522
that religion puts up. Back to
implacable faiths.

528
00:38:54,557 --> 00:38:58,678
''My holy book is true" ,
" I am right" ," He is wrong''.

529
00:38:59,541 --> 00:39:02,770
So I went to meet someone 
who, in my naivete, 

530
00:39:02,805 --> 00:39:06,741
I thought might be able to see
 both sides of the story.

531
00:39:06,776 --> 00:39:11,282
Yusuf Al-Khattab used 
to be called Joseph Coen,

532
00:39:11,317 --> 00:39:14,725
born and brought up as 
a secular Jew in New York.

533
00:39:14,760 --> 00:39:18,888
In 1998 he moved to Gaza as a Jewish settler, 

534
00:39:18,923 --> 00:39:24,477
but there he discovered a different God, Allah.

535
00:39:31,525 --> 00:39:35,010
What I notice coming to this 
centre of world religions, 

536
00:39:35,045 --> 00:39:38,465
is what a lot hatred religion fosters.

537
00:39:38,500 --> 00:39:43,545
I mean, I'm an atheist, and I am rather gentle,
 I don't hate people.

538
00:39:43,580 --> 00:39:46,159
But it seems to me that I'm 
hearing hate on all sides, 

539
00:39:46,194 --> 00:39:48,173
and it seems to me is all to do with religion.

540
00:39:48,208 --> 00:39:50,340
I hate atheists because atheists don't care 

541
00:39:50,375 --> 00:39:52,454
if somebody fornicates
 in the middle of the street,

542
00:39:52,489 --> 00:39:56,241
they don't care if their women 
go bouncing around on TV topless,

543
00:39:56,276 --> 00:39:58,041
it makes no difference, they don't
believe in anything.

544
00:39:58,076 --> 00:39:59,805
If you don't believe in a set rule, 

545
00:39:59,840 --> 00:40:02,153
and you believe
that a constitution can change, 

546
00:40:02,188 --> 00:40:04,335
and you can amend
the rules as they go along,

547
00:40:04,370 --> 00:40:05,794
and if you don't believe in God's rule, 

548
00:40:05,829 --> 00:40:09,130
then what law do you have? 
You just have man-made laws.

549
00:40:09,165 --> 00:40:11,177
I realized I was in the company of someone 

550
00:40:11,212 --> 00:40:14,628
who has willingly bought into
fundamentalist dogma.

551
00:40:14,663 --> 00:40:19,803
What do you think about the
 September 11 attacks on New York, 

552
00:40:19,838 --> 00:40:23,349
and the July 7 attacks in London?

553
00:40:23,384 --> 00:40:26,601
Okay, since you like to speak about evolution,
 I'd like to start before 

554
00:40:26,636 --> 00:40:28,534
- what do you think about 
the Jews that have

555
00:40:28,569 --> 00:40:32,525
destroyed over 417 Arab villages, 
including all mosques and majids, 

556
00:40:32,560 --> 00:40:34,507
which wouldn't affect you,
 'cause you're an atheist.

557
00:40:34,542 --> 00:40:37,606
So what are are you saying? 
That we should sit back...

558
00:40:37,641 --> 00:40:38,795
Not at all.

559
00:40:38,830 --> 00:40:40,062
...and say 'oh, you know what?
 Let us progress and

560
00:40:41,312 --> 00:40:42,257
let us sit down and drink tea, 
and talk about what to do.

561
00:40:42,292 --> 00:40:44,244
I think that's the most ridiculous thing. 

562
00:40:44,279 --> 00:40:48,327
All I could say is if there was
 noquote-unquote "state of Israel",

563
00:40:48,362 --> 00:40:50,312
there would have been no September 11 .

564
00:40:50,347 --> 00:40:52,244
But if we've all got to live together, 

565
00:40:52,279 --> 00:40:56,741
it's not going to be helped if there 
are people of very, very strong faith

566
00:40:56,776 --> 00:40:58,687
who simply ''know'' they're right, 

567
00:40:58,722 --> 00:41:01,089
and are not amenable to
argument because ...

568
00:41:01,124 --> 00:41:04,812
There's somebody out there
 who's just as faithful as you,

569
00:41:04,847 --> 00:41:08,654
and has his faith just as strong as yours, 
which is opposite to yours.

570
00:41:08,689 --> 00:41:11,110
You see the problem is, Richard, 
I think that you have fear.

571
00:41:11,145 --> 00:41:15,232
You know that this party 
of occupying Muslim lands,

572
00:41:15,267 --> 00:41:18,787
and polluting society with these
 evil ideas that are around,

573
00:41:18,822 --> 00:41:22,066
it's not gonna last forever. There
 will always be the soldiers of Allah

574
00:41:22,101 --> 00:41:25,610
there to give the response to this.

575
00:41:25,645 --> 00:41:27,282
So we also want the same thing. 

576
00:41:27,317 --> 00:41:31,763
All we want is ... 
we want the non-Muslims at this point

577
00:41:31,798 --> 00:41:33,327
off the lands of Mohammad,

578
00:41:33,362 --> 00:41:34,712
sal-allahu-alleihi-wasallam. 

579
00:41:34,747 --> 00:41:37,496
All the lands of Mohammad, 
We want the kaffir out of it.

580
00:41:37,531 --> 00:41:39,681
Dawkins: Do you want Islam to 
take over rest of the world?

581
00:41:39,716 --> 00:41:41,619
- Of course I want it to, and it will. 

582
00:41:41,654 --> 00:41:44,432
So my advice is
to clean up your show at home,

583
00:41:44,467 --> 00:41:48,194
take your forces off our lands,
correct yourselves,

584
00:41:48,229 --> 00:41:51,550
fix your society, alright? 
Fix your women ...

585
00:41:51,585 --> 00:41:53,494
Fix your women? 
That's not my business, 

586
00:41:53,529 --> 00:41:55,712
that my women's business. 
They're not my women...

587
00:41:55,747 --> 00:41:57,459
No, it is your business. 
It is your business. 

588
00:41:57,494 --> 00:42:00,145
When you take the women and 
dress them like whores on the street ...

589
00:42:00,180 --> 00:42:02,188
I don't dress women, 
they dress themselves!

590
00:42:02,223 --> 00:42:06,211
But you allow it as a norm, to let the women 
go on the street dressed like this.

591
00:42:06,246 --> 00:42:08,498
What's goin' on with
your society?

592
00:42:08,533 --> 00:42:12,107
But I'm interested in religion and the effect
that it has on peoples' minds,

593
00:42:12,142 --> 00:42:13,364
and I'm worried about it.

594
00:42:13,399 --> 00:42:15,268
And we're very worried about you.

595
00:42:15,303 --> 00:42:16,675
I mean, what's goin' on with the stealing? 

596
00:42:16,710 --> 00:42:18,752
With the theft? It's out of control...

597
00:42:21,616 --> 00:42:24,501
Clearly, historic injustice
 towards the Palestinians

598
00:42:24,536 --> 00:42:26,915
breeds hatred and anger.

599
00:42:28,453 --> 00:42:31,986
But we must face up to the fact
 that in creating the death cults of

600
00:42:32,021 --> 00:42:34,235
suicide bombers, it's unshakable, 

601
00:42:34,270 --> 00:42:39,612
unreasonable conviction in your 
own righteous faith that is the key.

602
00:42:39,647 --> 00:42:42,428
If preachers then tell the faithful 

603
00:42:42,463 --> 00:42:45,341
that Paradise after
martyrdom is better

604
00:42:45,376 --> 00:42:48,887
than existence here in the real world, 
it's hardly surprising that some

605
00:42:48,922 --> 00:42:51,757
crazed followers will actually swallow it, 

606
00:42:51,792 --> 00:42:57,674
leading to a terrible cycle of vendetta, 
war and suffering.

607
00:43:11,044 --> 00:43:12,673
I'm here on the Mount of Olives, 

608
00:43:12,708 --> 00:43:17,062
looking out over
this beautiful old city.

609
00:43:17,097 --> 00:43:20,050
We've heard some pretty
 extreme statements,

610
00:43:20,085 --> 00:43:22,614
some hatred, some bigotry,

611
00:43:22,649 --> 00:43:25,211
such as I haven't really heard before.

612
00:43:26,234 --> 00:43:29,596
I don't see what future the world has, 

613
00:43:29,631 --> 00:43:31,878
as long as
people think like that,

614
00:43:31,913 --> 00:43:35,080
and people are going to go on thinking 
like that, as long as they're

615
00:43:35,115 --> 00:43:39,622
brought up from childhood, 
from the cradle,

616
00:43:39,657 --> 00:43:43,350
to think that there's 
something good about faith.

617
00:43:43,385 --> 00:43:45,174
To think that there's something good 

618
00:43:45,209 --> 00:43:49,162
about believing
because you've been told to believe, 

619
00:43:49,197 --> 00:43:53,275
rather than believing because you've
looked at the evidence.

620
00:43:56,859 --> 00:44:02,015
I want to say that killing for God
 is not only hideous murder,

621
00:44:02,050 --> 00:44:04,588
it is also utterly ridiculous.

622
00:44:07,705 --> 00:44:11,881
Unlike religion, science doesn't
 pretend to know everything.

623
00:44:11,916 --> 00:44:15,399
There are still deep questions about 
the origins of the universe

624
00:44:15,434 --> 00:44:18,212
that have yet to be explained.

625
00:44:19,674 --> 00:44:22,535
But just because science can't
answer them right now,

626
00:44:22,570 --> 00:44:29,801
doesn't mean faith, tradition, revelation 
or an ancient holy text, can.

627
00:44:30,943 --> 00:44:33,953
Science can't disprove the existence of God, 

628
00:44:33,988 --> 00:44:36,246
but that does not mean that God exists.

629
00:44:36,281 --> 00:44:40,278
There are a million things we can't disprove!

630
00:44:42,576 --> 00:44:45,968
The philosopher Bertrand Russell had an analogy:

631
00:44:46,003 --> 00:44:50,779
Imagine there's a china tea pot,
 in orbit around the Sun.

632
00:44:50,814 --> 00:44:55,062
You cannot disprove the existence 
of the tea pot, because it's too small

633
00:44:55,097 --> 00:44:57,683
to be spotted by our telescopes.

634
00:44:58,445 --> 00:45:00,449
Nobody but a lunatic would say 'well, 

635
00:45:00,484 --> 00:45:04,510
I'm prepared to believe in the tea pot
 because I can't disprove it'.

636
00:45:04,545 --> 00:45:07,935
Maybe we have to be technically 
and strictly agnostic,

637
00:45:07,970 --> 00:45:12,312
but in practice we are all tea pot atheists.

638
00:45:14,143 --> 00:45:17,503
But now, suppose that everybody
 in the society, the teachers,

639
00:45:17,538 --> 00:45:22,103
the tribal elders, all had faith in the tea pot.

640
00:45:22,138 --> 00:45:25,414
Stories of the tea pot had been
 handed down for generations,

641
00:45:25,449 --> 00:45:27,448
it's part of the tradition of the society,

642
00:45:27,483 --> 00:45:29,832
there are holy
books about the tea pot.

643
00:45:29,867 --> 00:45:34,131
Then, somebody who said they did 
not believe in the tea pot, might be

644
00:45:34,166 --> 00:45:38,611
regarded as eccentric or even mad.

645
00:45:40,084 --> 00:45:45,517
There's an infinite number of things like celestial 
tea pots that we can't disprove.

646
00:45:45,552 --> 00:45:50,619
There are fairies, there 
are unicorns, hobgoblins.

647
00:45:50,654 --> 00:45:52,764
We can't disprove any of those.

648
00:45:52,799 --> 00:45:55,320
But we don't believe in them anymore than
nowadays we believe

649
00:45:55,355 --> 00:46:02,668
in Thor, Amen-Rah, or
Aphrodite.

650
00:46:02,703 --> 00:46:09,030
We are all atheists about most of the gods that
societies have ever believed in.

651
00:46:09,065 --> 00:46:12,926
Some of us just go one god further.

652
00:46:23,780 --> 00:46:29,120
In the next program, how faith acts like 
a virus that strikes the young,

653
00:46:29,155 --> 00:46:32,970
and how the good book, which people 
follow for moral instruction,

654
00:46:33,005 --> 00:46:34,518
actually reveals a god 

655
00:46:34,553 --> 00:46:39,541
who is surely  the most vindictive
 character in all fiction.

656
00:46:39,542 --> 00:46:48,538
Corrections and timing:)
wafpress@wildmail.com

657
00:46:49,000 --> 00:46:52,137
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