One of the things that's hard doing this kind of work
is that you know that you're causing a lot of pain to the victim's family.
People want certainty, they want resolution.
And they'd like to feel like the person is being held accountable.
And then somebody like me comes along,
and they start reading these things, you know, like, maybe it isn't so certain.
And so, they can focus a lot of their animosity towards me.
Kathleen Zellner,
she has a lot of people working on Steven's case.
And she may think that he's honestly innocent...
but if this wasn't a high-profile case,
I highly doubt if she would be working on it.
Kathleen Zellner is using Twitter to defend Avery's innocence,
announcing to her followers that she won't quit until he's out.
I mean, do you really need to use Twitter to try to get a guy out of jail?
I mean, it's probably a new way to do it, and she's not a dumb lady.
She knows what she's doing, she's smart.
Kathleen Zellner tweeting, she visited her client
and reviewed his 38 boxes of files,
adding, "He remains innocent and framed."
If she's just trying to find a loophole in the system, then...
and Steven may still have done it, but she thinks that she can get him out
because of a technicality or something like that,
I don't think that's right, obviously.
I don't think anybody needs to worry about a technicality.
Courts at this level aren't letting people out on technicalities.
I would say to the people on the Avery case,
"If this case is solid, if he's guilty, I'll fail."
Um...
So, there's nothing to worry about.
But if it's not solid and someone else did it,
then I'm gonna overturn it, and that's gonna come out.
And that's also something to be glad about,
that our system of justice allows for that.
I usually meet up with Barb and Scott at about 7:00.
I'm sure if I'm a couple minutes late, she ain't gonna say anything.
But we just got a routine, you know? So...
I always like to be a little earlier and catch up with the dogs, you know?
That dog that she's got for Brendan is really nice, by the way. Yeah.
We all ride together. We'd use my vehicle, but I don't trust it.
There are some issues I gotta fix.
So, I pitch in for gas.
It'll be a wonderful visit, I'm sure.
We always have good times, you know?
I just wish it was longer.
Angel.
Come here.
- Morning, Pete. - Morning.
- How you doing? Nice to see you. - Good.
- Well, whenever. I'm ready. - I'm ready.
So, did you want to go with us next Sunday, too?
If nobody else is going with you, that won't be a problem.
Because I know once in a while you bring Blaine and his wife,
and I deeply understand, you know?
- There's plenty of room. - OK. Yeah, sure. No problem.
"Have a great visit.
Tell Brendan to hang in there
and we are praying for him.
Sending lots of love his way."
Two hundred and forty-two likes.
Wow.
Yeah, his face lights up with all the supporters
'cause he didn't think he would have that many.
I says, "Brendan, there's a lot...
There's still a lot of good in the world. You always hear about the bad.
You know? But there's a lot of good things that happen, too, you know?"
We support Brendan and all the wrongful convicted.
May justice prevail.
We gotta wait until they open the door, and they let us in.
Walk through a metal detector.
There's another door that they have to open up.
Bring the form to the desk.
They tell us what table to sit at.
Sometimes we have to wait to see him.
He walks through his door.
He'll give Barb a big hug, then Scott, and then me.
I'll give Brendan a burger, Barb will get him a soda.
We share. She'll get him this, I'll get him that.
I bet you we've visited him 1,000 times, if not more,
in the last 11 years.
The worst thing about it is leaving him behind.
Yeah.
His brothers would go up more by him.
- It hurts them. - But it hurts them too much.
His oldest brother's...
He's just torn apart.
He wants to go see him, but he's afraid to go see him.
It hurts Bobby, too, but he's also got a son that he's gotta take care of now.
Now Bryan's got a son, too, that he's got to worry about protecting...
Yeah.
Eleven years later, and it's still got a major effect on his oldest brother.
If he'd go see him more, it would get easier like it has for us.
I mean, even when I'm at work...
and something pops up in my head...
I start crying.
Even to this day.
Once somebody's convicted,
they have to move mountains to get out of prison.
Our task now is to upend an entire system
which, by design, is now weighted in favor of the prosecutors,
in favor of the State,
in favor of keeping this conviction in place.
Courts govern themselves by the principle of finality.
The courts don't want to be flooded by applications
from inmate after inmate seeking to get released from prison.
This concept of finality can govern everything that happens post-conviction.
It used to be that the federal court
did not place as much weight on this concept of finality.
And then in 1996,
the US Congress really tied the hands of federal court judges
in the ways in which they're allowed to review state court decisions.
The statute is known as AEDPA...
A-E-D-P-A...
which is the Antiterrorism and Effective Death Penalty Act.
The antiterrorism part of the statute
is in direct response to the Oklahoma City bombing
and the belief on the part of politicians
that Timothy McVeigh should be given the death penalty
and that federal courts should not delay his execution.
There has been a massive explosion at a federal building
in Oklahoma City, Oklahoma.
It happened a short time ago.
A large portion of that building has collapsed and fallen...
There are reports that at least 250 people are missing.
There were 40 children inside
because of the daycare center of the second floor.
This is the deadliest terror attack on US soil ever.
The bombing in Oklahoma City
was an act of cowardice,
and it was evil.
Let there be no room for doubt,
we will find the people who did this.
When we do, justice will be swift,
certain, and severe.
There's apparently a confusion
over whether you're for or against an amendment regarding habeas corpus.
Yeah, we've been trying to pass,
and I tried to pass last year and failed to do it,
a bill which would reform the habeas corpus procedure,
the criminal appeals procedure.
In death penalty cases, it normally takes eight years to exhaust the appeals.
It's ridiculous. And if you have multiple convictions, it could take even longer.
We need to cut the time delay on the appeals dramatically.
The families of the victims of those people
who have lost loved ones, colleagues, and friends to acts of terrorism,
came to us and said, "Give us justice!
Give us habeas and death penalty reform."
Why is it necessary to link the death penalty
and the constitutional guarantees of habeas corpus
to a terrorism bill?
This is just a political deal.
The absurdity, the obscenity, of 17 years
from the time a person has been sentenced until that sentence is carried out,
through endless appeals up and down the state court system,
up and down the federal court system,
makes a mockery of the law.
Only 100 out of 10,000 habeas corpus issues
come from death penalty cases.
Even less come from terrorist cases.
Yet this bill is not limited either to death penalty cases
or to terrorist cases.
It is depriving every single American,
every single child, every single one of us,
of our constitutional protections of habeas corpus.
This statute placed strict timelines
on people seeking review of their sentences
and applied more broadly to cases that didn't involve death sentences.
America will never surrender to terror.
President Clinton said his intention
was not to constrain federal courts
in their ability to review constitutional violations.
But the Supreme Court,
in its interpretation of the language of the statute,
has imposed greater and greater restrictions
on judges' ability to review state court decisions.
Because of AEDPA, we have to show the federal court
that when we told the state courts that the Constitution was violated
and they disagreed with us,
that the state court was not just wrong,
the state court didn't just make a mistake,
it made an unreasonable mistake.
You have to thread the eye of a needle
in order to get relief in federal court.
Ninety-nine percent, or even more,
of federal habeas petitions are denied.
Winning in federal court is the equivalent of a legal miracle.
To this day, of course, Dassey is saying he didn't do it.
And perhaps he'll win his federal habeas appeal,
but I wouldn't count on it.
I mean, if I was looking at Brendan's situation,
I would say that, for all practical purposes,
his case is over.
So, I don't think there was any unloyalty to attempting to persuade him
that he wasn't going to succeed to trial and that the best thing for him to do
was probably to try to strike a deal with the State.
...the confession, of course, um, was valid.
Most likely, had he cooperated and chosen to testify against Avery,
uh, he could've reduced his time probably in half.
For Brendan to make a plea deal for something he didn't do?
- It's wrong. - Do you think that would be right?
I don't think so.
- I don't think that would be right at all. - No.
Especially if you're innocent.
Do you solemnly...
He told me he was innocent.
I said, "Stick with your guns, then."
I do.
It's about the truth.
Brendan Dassey. D-A-S-S-E-Y.
Good morning, Judge Fox.
My name is Mike Halbach, and I'm Teresa's younger brother.
On October 31st, 2005,
Brendan Dassey had the opportunity to choose a lifelong title for himself:
rapist and murderer, or hero.
It's such an easy decision
that the fact that any person, young or old, who can choose the former
has to be held accountable.
He has consistently refused plea deals,
which would've made our lives easier amidst this tragedy
and, to his benefit, would have made his sentence shorter for doing so.
Judge Fox, I will ask you to send this rapist and murderer to prison
for the rest of his life without ever becoming eligible for parole.
Thank you.
Please identify yourself for the record.
My name is Barbara Tadych,
and all I gotta say is, my son did not do this.
He was more or less coerced into saying what he said.
And I believe that he should be...
Maybe get a little bit for saying his story,
but I don't think he ought to deserve life.
Anything else?
Just that he's innocent.
The court sentences you, Brendan Dassey,
on the crime of first-degree intentional homicide,
to life in prison,
and determines that you will be eligible for release to extended supervision
on November 1st, 2048.
It's hard to lose family.
I do feel bad for the Halbachs.
But you'd think they would want to know the truth.
What really happened.
I know I would wanna.
Get the real killer...
and give Teresa some peace.
What the judge gave Brendan, um, wasn't exactly what we wanted,
but just like anything else, we'll accept it and deal with it.
In 41 years, I'll be 66,
and when that time comes, I'll think about it again.
But for the next 41 years,
I'll probably not think about Steven Avery or Brendan Dassey at all.
Brendan, any reaction to the sentence?
No.
Do you hope to get out of prison eventually?
Steven's lawyer is good,
and I think she will find out who did it.
I'm hoping. I have my fingers crossed.
Then they'll know the truth,
that none of us were involved.
It's just incredible to me
that the prosecution was able to pull this off.
It is one of the all-time stupid cases.
It really...
I just... I mean, I just cannot imagine how people put this together.
It's fascinating.
Because I don't like blaming juries,
because I think the jury system really works.
It really works if they know...
If they've got the evidence, they don't mistakes like this.
This can only be attributed to them not being given the evidence.
The number one reason why this is the primary burn location
is that on October 31st,
Mr. Avery had a big, whopping fire there
on the 31st of October.
And we haven't heard any evidence of a big, whopping fire,
the kind that would consume, fully consume, a human body,
anywhere else on that property.
That's the primary burn location, ladies and gentlemen.
You can find that,
and you should find that, beyond a reasonable doubt.
That shouldn't be a question for you.
I wanted to find the leading expert on burning bodies.
I talked to a couple of forensic anthropologists,
and I kept getting the same name:
Dr. John DeHaan.
There isn't anybody in the world
that knows more about burning bodies than he does.
I've had the opportunity to observe a number of human cadavers
burned under a variety of conditions,
and I know what it takes to keep a body burning
and what it takes to accomplish a certain amount of destruction.
What happens is that if it's in an open pit,
uh, the heat that you generate from burning the fuel,
basically, is largely lost,
it goes up with the flames and the smoke.
And as a result, you have to keep adding more fuel to keep the fire going.
On the 31st of October,
at about 7:30 to 7:45 p.m.,
did you notice anything unusual around the property at that time?
Yes, I did.
Could you tell the jury what you saw, please?
I saw a big fire.
Can you tell the jury where you saw the fire, please?
Right there.
Are you able to estimate how high or how tall the flames were
as you were watching there about 7:45?
They were almost as tall as the garage.
- So... - Eight, ten feet.
I don't know. Ten feet, maybe.
Ten feet tall, the flames were.
- Big fire? - It's a big fire.
Alright.
Did you see Steven Avery standing next to or near that fire?
Yes, I did.
The prosecutor wanted the jury to visualize Steven Avery
standing outside of a big bonfire
with the flames over the roof of the garage.
To you, is that credible, that image?
No.
The height of a flame in open air is,
of ordinary combustibles,
is driven by the amount of fuel that you have.
Basically, the size of the fire controls the height of the flames.
And one of the mythologies about destroying a body is,
"If I pour gasoline on it,
you know, that's a really hot fire and that's gonna destroy the body."
Well, no.
I mean, the gasoline burns off in a couple of minutes,
scorches the outer surfaces of the skin, and goes out.
- So it just goes out. - It just goes out.
And again, it all goes back to what he taught me years ago,
over a decade ago,
it's atmosphere.
It's a flat pit. It's...
It's really not protected on the side or anything,
so all the energy's going into the atmosphere.
And so there's nothing concentrating that fire,
or keeping the fire next to the body.
So, to have flames in an open area 12 or 15 feet high or higher
would require an enormous fuel load.
What kind of fuel would be required?
How many gallons would you have...
You'd have to have a continuous supply...
Or you'd have to have hundreds of gallons, right?
- You'd have to have your fuel tank. - Yeah.
Yeah, that's huge, though,
because the State told the jury
that the remnants of a couple of tires were found
and that the body could actually be, essentially, cremated
with tires put on it as the fuel source.
Do you think that's possible?
This looks like the remains of maybe two tires.
Well, those will help keep a body burning,
but they are not gonna be a primary fuel to achieve this kind of destruction.
If you're fueling it with dozens of car tires,
you're gonna have visible remains of all the steel elements of the car tires.
Um, you'd also have...
If you're fueling this with solid fuels, you're gonna have a lot of ash.
If you're gonna burn up a body and have a huge fire for hours,
just think about it, you're gonna have debris everywhere.
It may not even be body debris.
There's gonna be other stuff burning,
and you should be able to see what some of that is.
So, when we talk about negative evidence,
there's just a complete absence of any fuel source
that would've reduced the body to this state that it's discovered in.
That's right.
The other thing is, if you keep a fire burning
uh, with a human cadaver,
um, no matter what kind of fuel you're adding,
the combustion of the tissue, especially the fat,
creates a black-brown goo,
and so you're gonna end up with a stain when you burn a body in open ground.
So, at this scene, if they'd had any experts present,
this whole theory might never have gotten off the ground, right?
That's right.
Any experienced crime scene person
would be able to recognize that the thermal damage
and the residual materials that should be present
if there was a large fire here, enough to consume a body to this extent,
um, they're not there.
So, you're positive that this burn pit is not the primary burn site
of Teresa Halbach's body.
That's correct, yes. This cannot be the primary burn site.
Dr. DeHaan is very clear that it was impossible
for her body to have been cremated in that burn pit
and that he was positive that no human body
had ever burned in that burn pit
because of the lack of ash and the lack of residue of the body
that he's seen in every single one of the burned body cases he's done,
and he's done more of those than anyone in the world.
And, of course, the whole fishy thing about the burn pit is
there are no photographs of the discovery of the bones.
Why would you transport from the crime scene the evidence
and not document and photograph
and meticulously record the composition of the bones and all of that?
Why wasn't that done?
The lack of documentation just speaks volumes
about what was going on here in the effort to get Steven Avery.
If the body didn't get burned in the burn pit,
what's another possibility?
The best thing, of course, is to put it in some sort of enclosure,
preferably metal,
that will reflect the radiant heat back into the location of the body,
and that assures that there's enough radiant heat
continuing to play on the surface of the body
to keep the fuel supply coming.
There have been a number of cases across the US
where bodies have been disposed of in a front yard burn barrel.
I was actually kind of surprised to see how efficient the process was.
And it turns out that, from a thermal energy standpoint,
they were successful
for exactly the same reason as a commercial crematorium.
These people in this area of Wisconsin, they deer hunt a lot,
and one of the things witnesses have said is that when they dress the deer,
they usually remove the head,
and some of them were burning the heads.
Oh, OK.
So you would figure they would be familiar with the process.
Certainly anybody who routinely uses a burn barrel knows
that a properly ventilated burn barrel will accomplish this kind of destruction.
You know, they wanted me.
They didn't want nobody else.
I think that's why they didn't do an investigation.
But here now, as long as I got Kathleen,
I'm kind of relaxed on all of that.
I'm putting my faith all in her.
What I've found with all of my clients is
they have to know what you're doing, what you're thinking,
and they need to be part of that decision-making process.
So, I talk to him about all of that,
and I think that helps him psychologically.
He's amazed by the stuff that I've discovered.
He's just flabbergasted.
He's like, "Just go ahead and get me out of here."
And he talks about getting out, which...
That pleases me, that he thinks about that.
My most thing is Ma and Dad.
They're almost 80 and, I don't know...
anything can happen.
And that's what I'm scared about.
I know they want to be a happy family again like we used to be.
I want to see if I can put that back together.
Probably be hard a little bit,
but I figure we all leave Wisconsin, we'll be alright.
Build me a big house where I'm on one side and they're on the other side
so I can take care of them.
Dad will go as long as I got a couple vehicles
so he can work on them, too.
Can't take him from that, 'cause that's all what he used to do.
Go fishing together and get Ma on the pontoon
and let her drive it.
I wanna make them happy as long as they're here.
There you go, Ma.
- Do you want to be in the sun? - No.
You don't want to be in the sun? You got a big sweater on.
Look at her. You got her buttoned right down.
Nice and comfortable inside.
You're speeding.
There you go, Ma. Right there. Go fish there.
"Happy 54th birthday, Steven."
"Best wishes for an amazing day surrounded by your family
and those who love you."
"Tell Steve happy birthday from his UK supporters."
Texas, California, Scotland, South Africa,
Brazil, Western Australia.
"Hopefully next year he'll be able to celebrate with you on the outside."
I can't wait to tell him how many comments there are.
Today will be fun.
Yes?
Hi.
- I really don't feel good. - Are you sick?
Yeah.
Too sick to go see Steven?
Yeah. Mm-hmm.
What's going on? Are you throwing up again?
No, I haven't been doing that, but I really don't feel good.
I've had this since, what, Wednesday?
Carla said she'll meet you up there.
OK, well, I will see her there, then.
And you just rest.
Yeah, OK.
OK, I will tell Steven happy birthday for you...
and that you love him.
Yeah. OK.
- Alright. - Yeah, bye.
Take care. Bye-bye.
I'll tell Steven that you're going up there on Monday, then.
Yeah.
I'll have him give you a call later.
Yeah, tell him to call me.
- Tell him happy birthday. - I will.
- So, OK. - Yeah, OK, then.
- Get some rest. - Yeah.
I hope you feel better.
How does it feel to be... What are you, 54?
Yeah.
Yeah, I guess Ma was sick.
Oh, that's too bad.
- Yeah. - Huh.
It was alright.
You know, I ate some cakes and that...
and a pizza thing,
couple bites of ice cream and...
But then, with Ma sick, it's...
It was a little hard.
I'm just scared that she ain't gonna make it until I get out.
People send me pictures of her, and it gets me upset and mad
because I can't be there, and...
It's excruciating having the time, you know, slip away
and just hoping that they'll be OK.
So, just, you know...
Just think of it, like, as a bad day,
but it's not...
You'll be better, you know?
Yeah, yeah.
You gotta keep going, you know?
You gotta keep going.
Yeah.
Just keep thinking about building a house, taking her there.
That's the part of it you're gonna be there for.
Yeah.
The thing that compels me or keeps me going
is when I believe that other people have just gotten it totally wrong.
And that, I find, I just can't let that go,
particularly when it's cost someone their life,
when it's so screwed up, when it's been done...
you know, the investigation has been done so incompetently,
when the crime scene makes no sense, the theory is idiotic.
That just...
I mean...
I just cannot not be drawn to that.
I just really am.
So, one of the things that we've really focused on
are the burn barrels.
So, Kira, why don't you tell me where you're at
just in your analysis and review of the burn barrels.
Yeah, on November 6, they pick up the four barrels
from behind the Dassey trailer.
They bring those in, they number them barrel number one through number four.
Barrel number two, of course, is the one they end up finding bones in.
It's actually searched by crime lab personnel on the 7th or the 8th.
But they didn't really find anything of note.
Then, on the 12th, it gets searched again for an unknown sort of reason,
and that's when bones are first found in that barrel.
Yeah.
- I mean, that seems really odd. - Yeah.
So, how are those issues handled at trial by the defense attorneys?
It's really interesting.
Bones being found in barrel number two...
defense does not ask the crime lab personnel who testify about it,
"How do you think you would've missed these human bones in this barrel?"
They don't ask the agent who eventually finds the bones,
"Did you know this was previously searched?
Why did you go back and search it again?
Why'd you get it out of storage and do that?"
Yeah, given that that should be such key evidence.
An interesting thing, too, is that the same agent and his partner
who find those bones,
earlier that day, they went to the deer camp.
At trial, he says he saw a couple of barrels.
His report only mentions one.
The report is written 16 days later. It's curiously brief.
No times of arriving or leaving are given.
Same for the report of visiting a site
on what he calls the Radandt Sand and Gravel Lot,
which he claims not to recall at trial.
So, on the 12th, this same agent and his partner goes to deer camp,
goes to another site, comes back,
they search barrel number two again, which has already been searched,
and find human bones in it.
What's fascinating about wrongful conviction work
is that the police reports are so important...
in these cases that are fabricated.
So, if you view that a crime is committed when a case is fabricated,
it's as if the criminal is documenting what he's doing.
And so, what's really almost amusing
is to see the stupid stuff they put in the reports
that ultimately is their undoing.
Significantly, with the burn pit,
they don't find anything on the 6th, on the 7th,
and then magically, on the 8th,
the bones suddenly appear in the burn pit.
I mean, they're so obviously planted.
They write the report that on the 7th,
the cadaver dogs alert on an area that they think is a burial site
west of the Avery property,
right off of Kuss Road.
And then on the 8th,
the cadaver dogs alert by the berm in Steven's backyard.
That tells you probably how the bones were carried over,
most likely on the 7th.
Were you asked to do anything else on the 7th, Sergeant?
I believe I was also...
At some point, apparently the command post received word
that some searchers had located an area that...
um...
It looked suspicious.
There was plastic poking up from the ground,
and it looked like the ground had been disturbed.
So, I was asked to go that area
along with the Wisconsin State Crime Lab,
Sergeant Tyson and Lieutenant Lenk,
and help the crime lab if they requested to excavate that area.
Do you know on what roadway this was?
I believe it was off Kuss, White Cedar Road.
Alright.
This is something that Mr. Ertl yesterday talked about.
A potential burial site, but wasn't. Was that your understanding?
- It turned out not to be? - Yes, it turned out to be nothing.
Alright.
Did you do anything else on the 7th?
I think by the time we were done with that,
that consumed the rest of the day.
They go over and they all converge
on the suspected burial site.
They ultimately declare there's nothing relevant about it.
But nobody really questions that the dogs,
both the scent and the cadaver dogs, alert over there.
The scent dogs actually track down Kuss Road,
onto the little gravel road that leads into the deer camp trailers
that are owned by the property owner of the quarry.
The dogs came over and hit on his burn barrel.
Then deeper into the quarry is where pelvic bones are found.
The way that you win a murder trial is to raise doubt,
and you raise doubt by constructing your story of what actually happened
and pointing to someone else who committed the murder.
So, that's the most effective way to raise doubt.
All states have a standard that allows a criminal defendant
to point to a third party perpetrator.
Wisconsin, they call it "Denny." Other states have a different case for it.
The concept is that a defendant has a constitutional right to a fair trial,
and part of a fair trial
is being able to point the finger at someone else
when you've been accused of murder.
It's really just that simple.
motive, opportunity,
and direct link to the crime.
Doesn't require that you prove someone committed the murder,
you're trying to prove that they could have committed the murder,
that they had the opportunity, they had the motive,
and there's a direct link to the crime.
So, it's part of the constitutional right you have to a fair trial,
and that involves the ability to raise doubt about your own guilt,
and you do that by pointing the finger at someone else.
And there's an abundance of evidence that points to the adjoining property.
So, where do you start?
You start with the people that controlled that property.
And the person in control of the quarry, Josh Radandt,
on the 5th, when no one knows where Teresa's body is,
no one knows the body has been cut up and burned in a burn barrel,
claims to have seen a burn barrel burning in Steven's backyard.
This is the path that Josh Radandt traveled...
where he observed the fire on Monday...
October 31st.
He's the first person who links Steven to the crime.
So, we're just building it, like, a brick at a time,
to the point that we think a court would find it credible.
We've had to do this in other cases. You have to be very careful.
And you have to eliminate people if it turns out it's not them.
Dean and Jerry could've did all of this.
If they would've investigated it,
they could've seen who really done it.
They were supposed to be the two top lawyers in Wisconsin.
I think they screwed up my whole case.
You know, they didn't put no experts...
with the splatter in the vehicle...
the burning barrels...
the dog tracks.
You know, they didn't say nothing about that.
And it was all there.
If they would've did everything what they were supposed to,
what she's doing,
I wouldn't be here.
I wouldn't have had to suffer for another 11 years.
I guess I did an article with a magazine.
It talks about my two lawyers, Dean and Jerry.
Avery is turning on that legal team,
blaming them for his incarceration.
His new letter listing 15 complaints, including a lack of experts
and claiming they ignored the evidence,
writing that the pair "wouldn't tell me what was going on in my case at all."
Those lawyers denying those claims to ABC overnight, saying,
"Because he was in jail before his trial, Steven could not know immediately
all of the investigative steps we took on his behalf."
I know in my heart that we worked as hard as we possibly could on Steven's behalf
and really tried our best.
But there was 25,000 pages of discovery
and hundreds of hours of CDs and DVDs and recordings in this case.
Steven Avery had really good, very strong lawyers
who represented him vigorously,
and they couldn't... you know, they couldn't win the case.
But for him to blame them now, I think, is a mistake,
and they've issued a statement to us
sort of sadly saying that they think he's mistaken,
but that they can understand, considering that he's been falsely imprisoned.
You don't have the luxury at this point, if you're picking up a case this late,
of overlooking any possible reason for a new trial,
any possible area of new evidence.
Steven Avery's lawyers ought to be looking at ineffective assistance of counsel
by Dean Strang and by Jerry Buting,
just as they ought to be looking at every other possible area
of newly discovered evidence...
or unlikely grounds for relief.
They don't have options to waste.
In another portion of that interview in In Touch,
he's asked about the victim's family.
And he says, "Once the truth comes out,
I think they'll regret what they all said about me."
He goes on to say he's 1,000 percent confident that he'll be released.
So, how likely... I don't think I need to even ask this.
- It's probably not happening. - It's...
Look, his new lawyer is a terrific lawyer named Kathleen Zellner.
She's been hinting that she's got some new evidence
that's gonna release him,
and it sounds like that's empowering and exciting Steven Avery.
But from my perspective, I think it's very unlikely
Steven Avery will be released in connection with this case.
Good morning. I'm Joy Cardin.
This is the Ideas Network of Wisconsin Public Radio on this Friday, August 12.
It is currently 70 degrees, still very humid.
Some spotty showers out there this morning.
We, of course, will keep you posted.
Traffic delays are a definite possibility
as the Green Bay Packers play tonight in the first preseason game of the year.
Breaking news coming out of federal court...
We have breaking news, and we're gonna go into programming for a moment.
A major development in the Teresa Halbach murder case.
A federal judge has overturned the murder conviction of Brendan Dassey.
A major reversal of fortune tonight.
Suddenly overturned.
A federal judge has tossed out his murder conviction.
After nine years of incarceration, he may finally go free.
A murder conviction overturned.
The federal court overturned Brendan's conviction.
This is unbelievable news for us.
I had to pick myself up off the floor. It was that stunning.
The judge wrote a 91-page opinion
dissecting everything that happened in Brendan's case.
And the court did this analysis and came out and said, "You know what?
This court has significant doubts about the reliability of his confession."
I mean, this is unbelievable.
It's what we've been arguing for so long.
It's what Brendan has been saying
since the moment he left that interrogation room.
Well, what do you want for your first meal? Chili?
Um, I don't know.
Shit on a shingle?
Maybe.
Maybe?
Hamburger.
What?
Maybe a big, juicy hamburger with some French fries.
Definitely French fries, maybe curly fries.
Yeah?
Yeah, because I haven't had French fries in a long time.
- You think, huh? - Yeah.
Alright, hamburger and fries it is.
People in Manitowoc say they thought all the Avery-Dassey attention
had finally wound down.
The talk about the potential release of Brendan Dassey
is spreading like wildfire.
Stirring up plenty of opinion in Manitowoc County.
Those we spoke to today say they're not happy with what might come now.
The sense here in Downtown Manitowoc is one of disappointment.
It's not safe for him to be out.
I just pray that they do a retrial and he's found guilty.
No one answered when we knocked at the home of Dassey's mother.
I think Brendan Dassey might be dangerous. I don't know.
The Halbach family is gonna go through it again?
They've lost a daughter.
I'm concerned about the family.
They have to go through this all over again and again and again.
Over and over and over and over again.
We have reporters working on reactions to this ruling,
any possible plans on the part of the State
to see where they want to go next.
The State Department of Justice told Fox 11
it is still reviewing the judge's decision and would not comment on it.
I was actually out of state getting a tattoo,
and Brendan's attorney called us
and told us that it was overturned...
which was really exciting.
It says "Justice for Brendan."
It's a dragonfly with his initials on the bottom.
And it actually represents change.
And that's what we're hoping for, is change. That he gets to come home.
I think it actually gave me good luck.
Really good luck.
We didn't win all of our claims.
We lost our claims against Len Kachinsky.
The court actually said,
"Even though I find this conduct indefensible,
I am blocked by federal law from granting relief here."
The court ultimately based its decision on the fact that that confession was coerced.
Judge William Duffin's decision
points out investigators repeatedly told Dassey
that they already knew what he did.
In the 91-page decision, a US magistrate judge concluded
investigators made repeated false promises while interrogating Dassey.
Additional factors, including age, intellectual deficits,
and the absence of a supportive adult,
rendered Dassey's confession involuntary.
The federal court said what the state courts missed.
What they failed to appreciate was how all of the circumstances of this interrogation
played off one another.
The totality of the circumstances.
"The court finds that the confession Dassey gave to the police
on March 1st, 2006, was so clearly involuntary
in a constitutional sense
that the Court of Appeals' decision to the contrary
was an unreasonable application of clearly-established federal law."
It goes on to say, "While the circumstances for relief
may be rare, even extraordinary,
it's the conclusion of this court
that this case represents the sort of extreme malfunction
in the state criminal justice system
that federal habeas corpus relief exists to correct."
We are in sort of a wait-and-see mode now.
What is the State going to do?
This confession has been thrown out of evidence.
If the State were to proceed with a retrial of Brendan,
that confession would no longer be part of the case against him.
- Which means they have no case. - Right.
Because this case was built solely on that confession.
This is clearly saying...
In fact, the court says, "It's clear how the investigators' actions
amounted to deceptive interrogation tactics
that overbore Dassey's free will."
So, they're calling it "deceptive interrogation tactics."
So, they used deception in the interrogation,
they used deception in planting the evidence.
So, the case is about deception, and that's about wrongdoing.
That's not about an accident, you know, that this all happened.
It's deliberate.
How'd you find out?
I think from her.
Oh, from her? Or did I tell you?
No, they were in the prison.
- Yeah, we were in the prison. - Oh, yeah, OK. Never mind.
- Oh, you were there? Oh, my gosh. - They were there.
I was there, too.
In there with Steven?
Yeah, with Steven and Grandma and my dad.
You talked to him when you were there, but he hasn't called, has he?
He hasn't called, no.
Yeah, I tried to get a hold of him yesterday, but I'll try tomorrow.
So, Brendan can actually be out before the 90 days?
Oh, yeah.
So, usually they take, like, another week and look at it,
and they say, "We're not gonna retry it."
When they announce that, then someone is freed,
usually within a day or so.
This is a big, big positive first step.
I mean, there's tremendous skepticism and doubt about this whole case.
Have you got questions?
Is he gonna get out just like Brendan?
Yeah, he will.
Yeah. He won't get out at the same time.
So, it's like if you were tearing a house down or, you know...
You just gotta pull that foundation out of it before it'll collapse.
And so this is a big part of it.
I guess time and the future will tell everything.
- Yeah. - So...
Ma was up there.
Earl left first.
Then, when I got back to my room, I seen him on TV.
Like he said, the truth will always come out.
Then after Ma left, I seen her on TV.
It seemed like Ma was, you know,
half happy and half sad.
You know, because one of them will come home that she can see.
I thought I would be first.
He had lawyers on his case, and I was doing my own,
so that's probably what slowed me down.
I got all the inmates saying, "You're next, you're next.
It ain't gonna be long, and you'll be just like him, out the door."
The news of Dassey's possible release from prison
has left those who knew Teresa Halbach angry and frustrated.
It started with a Facebook post asking runners to wear blue,
Teresa's favorite color,
to two different races taking place in Calumet County this weekend.
A show of support for Teresa Halbach's family.
I think we're all feeling pretty bad for the Teresa Halbach family
having to go through the whole thing again.
With that news coming out, people are more concerned about that.
They forget this is hard for the family and everything.
There's a whole world that's looking at the wrong side of the story.
The whole thing is sad.
I'm not gonna cry, though.
I told myself I wasn't crying over this.
We have to come together as citizens and pull for what's right.
If we would've gotten it right the first time,
we wouldn't be reliving this ten years later.
I don't think Manitowoc County is ever gonna heal from this.
This is big. This is huge.
We got a poor, poor woman that was murdered.
We have two innocent people in prison.
And we have cops that planted evidence.
How do you heal from something like that? I don't think you can.
I don't think nobody's ever gonna heal.
But it would be nice to start a process of healing.
The State is still weighing its options,
trying to figure out what to do next in the Brendan Dassey case.
With the decision on how to continue up to the State...
Wisconsin Attorney General Brad Schimel on what's next
after Brendan Dassey's conviction was overturned.
There are a number of different directions this case can go.
And before we make a determination as to which option we'll pursue,
we are going to want to give Teresa Halbach's family
an opportunity to have some input.
We've been in communication with them.
We'll continue to outline for them all the different options,
what the likelihood of best success are with each one.
I ordered my ice cream today.
Yeah?
Yeah, my two pints, but for each pint it's $2.50.
Yeah.
I don't think I'm gonna buy another one since...
you know, I don't know,
if I buy one, and in another week or so, they tell me I'm free
and I can't use it, so that's a waste of $5.
Yeah.