邪恶有许多面孔 Evil has many faces.
发笑者 A man who laughs.
大都会的掌控者 The master of Metropolis.
恐惧的守护者 The Guardian of fear.
星球的征服者 A conqueror of worlds.
面孔虽多, 但名号只有一个: Many faces, but just one name:
超级罪犯 The supervillain.
法力无边, 魅力非凡 Powerful, charismatic
智力超群, 残暴无情 intelligent, ruthless.
超级罪犯反映了我们的恐惧和挫败 The supervillain reﬂects our fears and frustrations
日常生活中的险境和危机 the dangers and perils of everyday life.
他们会犯下我们不愿犯下的弥天大罪 They commit the heinous crimes we will not.
而在这样一个对错无绝对 And in a world where right and wrong are not absolute
生活中存在着灰色地带的现实和漫画世界 where shades of gray exist in life as well as the comic page
邪恶就不仅是不可避免的, 而是不可或缺的 evil isn't just unavoidable, it's necessary.
可以说, 在漫画世界里, 反派对整个故事来说甚至 In the world of comics, one could argue that the villain is even more vital to the story
比品行端正的英雄更为关键 than the just and moral hero.
因为少了相应的反面参照 For without a proper adversary
也就缺了故事的精髓: we lack the very essence of story:
冲突 Conflict.
毕竟, 驱使英雄见义勇为的不正是这些反派吗? After all, isn't it the villain who catapults the hero into action?
没了反派, 整个故事就再无看点 Without the villain, there's really no story.
即便英雄仍在, 也无事可做 The superhero exists and does nothing.
若不是反派为非作歹, 超人就只是克拉克·肯特 If the villain isn't acting out, Superman stays Clark Kent.
超级英雄永远在被动地应对危机 The superheroes are always reacting.
而率先挑起事端的一直是反派 The villains are making things happen.
他们心怀诡计 Villains are the ones with a plan.
惹是生非 The villains are the ones who are taking the initiative.
如果把"主角"定义为触动事件的导火索 If you define "protagonist" as somebody who sets something in motion
把"敌手"定义为主角遇到的绊脚石 and "antagonist" as somebody who stops him
那基本上漫画里的所有反派都算主角 almost all the villains in comic books are protagonists.
故事的发展离不开反派提供的源源动力, 他们总会带来挑战 You need that ongoing impetus of the bad guy, the villain, the one who's always gonna be a challenge
叫板社会规则 the one who is going to threaten society's rules
备受规则支持者的非难 and be put in their place by somebody who upholds those rules.
理解邪恶
缺了反派少的不只是故事的看点或其中的冲突 Not only is there no story or conﬂict without the villain
英雄的精髓也难以体现 but it's through the villain that we see our hero at their very core.
反派的存在让我们看到英雄并非完人, 他们也有弱点 We see their many ﬂaws, we see their many weaknesses.
看到是什么让他们成为这样的英雄 We see what makes them the hero they are.
如果没有坏蛋 Without the villain to define the hero
也就无法定义英雄 you don't have a hero.
就像少了把他们锻造成形的铁砧 You have no anvil from which the superhero is pounded into the shape that he is.
漫画里的反派 Villains in comic book stories
让英雄或者说超级英雄有机会施展拳脚 allow the hero or the superhero to really flex their muscles.
反派实力越强 The more power the supervillains have
就越能体现超级英雄的重要性 the more you can showcase how important that superhero is.
所以反派越强大, 英雄越牛掰. 因为他们必须战胜 So the stronger your villains are, the stronger your hero is. Just because they have to overcome
机智精明, 实力过人的对手 somebody who's smart, powerful
而且这些敌手目标明确, 会把想法付诸实践 who knows what they want and who's on a mission that they have to do * they believe in.
所以要是英雄能阻止他们, 自己也就变得更为强大 So if the hero can stop them, you know, it makes them that much better.
在DC宇宙里一切更为真实, 因为反派众多 But all the more true in the DC universe because we have such rich villains.
其中一个经典的例子就是闪电侠和逆闪电 从名字就能看出他们的特点 One of the classic examples is Flash and Reverse-Flash. The very names give you what they are.
逆闪电有过非常惨痛的经历 Reverse-Flash suffered something so horrible.
他觉得闪电侠能改变过去, 他知道闪电侠能穿越时空 And he felt like the Flash could have fixed it. He knew that the Flash could go through time.
之前见过他这么做 He'd seen it happen before.
他说"为什么你不回到过去阻止悲剧发生? 为什么你不肯?" He said, "Why don't you go back, prevent this from happening? Why wouldn't you do that?"
闪电侠不同意 The guy won't do it.
"他不肯这么做是因为他没能跟我一样遭遇不幸 "Well, he won't do it because he hasn't felt tragedy like I have.
所以我要让他感同身受, 让他成为更好的英雄 So I'm going to have him feel tragedy to make him a better hero.
你必须有能力做出行动, 保护你爱的每一个人 You need to be able to take the measures to protect everyone you love.
你不愿意为我穿越到过去, 也许你愿意为了自己这么做. 所以我要让你接受考验." You wouldn't do it for me. Maybe you'll do it for yourself. So I put you to the test."
谜语人, 他考验的是蝙蝠侠的才智 The Riddler, he's all about Batman's intellect.
对我来说他就像个磨刀石. 是他说 He, to me, is the sword-sharpener. He's the guy that says:
"要是你不够聪明的话, 所有人都会这么死去" "if you are not clever enough, everybody dies in that way."
在某种程度上他表现了蝙蝠侠其实 He shows in some ways that Batman, at his roots
心里想要成为最厉害的侦探的 needs to be the greatest detective.
这个角色诞生于《神探漫画》, 角色的核心就是福尔摩斯 At his heart, he's born in Detective Comics. At the core of the character is Sherlock Holmes.
他是那种因为他没有超能力, 所以要比其他人都聪明 He's that guy that, because he's human, needs to be smarter than anybody else
才能打击这类的罪行 to solve these crimes.
在我看来, 谜语人登上舞台, 而且挑战的是蝙蝠侠最最重要, 最为核心的技能 For me, the Riddler steps on to the stage and challenges that really really basic and fundamental element
也是所有技能中最不可或缺的一个 of Batman's capabilities that needs to be there almost more than any other.
我觉得这个就是蝙蝠侠的超能力. 他永远都是最伟大的侦探 I mean, that's Batman's superpower. He's the greatest detective of all time.
反派和他们对头之间的关系 The relationship between a villain and their rival is more complicated
比对错之分, 正邪之争更为复杂 than a question of right versus wrong, good versus evil.
他们共同形成了一种动态, 这种动态有时是相互依存的 Together, they form a dynamic that is, at times, interdependent.
反派不可能脱离英雄单独存在, 而英雄, 无论男女, 亦是如此 A villain cannot exist without a hero and a hero, his or her villain.
他们处在一种共生共亡的关系之中, 要是反派离开了英雄 They're very much in a symbiotic relationship in that if the villains were to do off the hero
我想他们很可能会有些百无聊赖 I think they would probably find themselves a little listless.
我们在创作《家庭之死》的时候 When we did "Death of the Family" story
小丑找到蝙蝠侠, 而且对他说:"其实在内心深处, 我们彼此相爱" he comes at Batman saying, "Deep down, we really love each other."
而意料之中蝙蝠侠说: "小丑, 在地球上我最厌恶的就是你" And, of course, Batman says, "I hate nothing more on the earth than you, Joker."
小丑认为蝙蝠侠这些年来组建起来的家庭 The Joker feels that the family that Batman has built around him all these years
在把他拉入泥沼 is dragging him down.
他说, "这些人会榨干你的灵魂 He says, "These people are draining your soul.
蝙蝠家族的其他成员在吸食你的生命 These other members of Bat family, they're sucking the life out of you.
我是你朋友. 我想让你做到最好 I'm your friend. I wanna make you be the best that you can be
这样我们双方都能够长久地享受这样的关系 so that we can both have a relationship that we could enjoy for so many years
而且没有这些蠢货在一边不断地蚕食你的生命 without these knuckleheads on the side constantly draining you.
所以我要帮你解决掉他们, 清除掉所有这些家庭成员 And so I'm gonna take care of them for you, and I will wipe out all these family members
这样你就不用拖着这些个累赘了" so you can be free of their encumbrance."
小丑内心其实是想表达: What the Joker, at his core, is saying is that:
"你可能不像我们爱你那样, 爱着我们 "You might not love us the way that we love you
或者你只是不愿意承认你也一样爱着我们 or you might not want to admit you love us the way we love you.
但这就是你的罪犯阵容", 他觉得:"我们都爱你呀" But this is the rogues' gallery that you have," he's like, "All of us love you.
我们只有一个目的, 让你成为更好的英雄 All of us are here only to make you a better superhero."
这往往会引出这么个问题: 是先有英雄? 还是先有坏蛋? The question always becomes: What came first, the hero or the villain?
是英雄们先出现在公众面前施行善举 Did the hero introduce himself to society to do better good
而且由于身着制服 and because they put on that costume
吸引了同样穿着制服的坏蛋与之对垒或者跟其叫板? the costumed villain arose to confront him or to challenge him?
还是穿着制服的反派先于英雄出现 Or did the costumed villain arrive first
创造英雄是为了阻止这些反派得逞 and the hero was created in order to stop that type of villain from succeeding
或阻止他们的力量增强? or getting more powerful?
超人必须直面银河系的危机 There are threats that our Superman has to face in the galactic threats
所以我倾向于认为人类应该对超人的存在心怀感激 so I would tend to think we're grateful Superman is there.
虽然另一方面有些人可能会说:"要不是超人跑来这里, 地球也不会遇到这些危险" Though on the flipside some people might say, "if Superman weren't here, would these menaces be coming to Earth?"
贝恩跑去高谭完全是为了挑战蝙蝠侠 Bane comes to Gotham specifically to fight Batman.
谜语人最初出现的时候也是一样 This is the Riddler as he originally appeared.
他一开始跑到高谭市是因为他为蝙蝠侠带来的挑战所吸引 First moved to Gotham because he was attracted by the challenge of Batman.
他们两个到那都是为了向蝙蝠侠下战书的 They both came there to challenge Batman
去验证一下他有没资格做他们的对手, 给自己找些乐子 to see if he could be a foe worthy of them, give them something interesting to do.
问题在于是先有反派还是先有英雄? So the question is which came first?
我不确定我是不是真想回答这个问题 And I'm not sure if I really wanna answer that question.
我只能说两者都不可能脱离对方单独存在 The one thing I can say, one can't exist without the other.
只要有反派, 就会有英雄 As long as we have villains, there will be heroes.
同样地, 只要有英雄, 反派就也会在 And as long as we have heroes, there will be villains.
但究竟是什么让我们对反派如此着迷 But what is it about the villain that keeps us so entranced
为之吸引, 为之倾倒? that captivates and enthralls us?
是什么让我们一边为其奉上掌声, 一边又恨不得他们一败涂地? What makes us applaud the very person we want to see vanquished?
其原因常跟我们爱的反派一样多样复杂 The reasons are often as multifaceted as the villains we enjoy.
成功反派的一些特质, 会让我们联想到 What makes a great supervillain is something that we can relate to
其实也是成就伟大英雄的一些特质 It's the same thing that makes for a great superhero.
超级英雄的形态表现的是我们放大了的希望和愿景 In the superhero we have this exaggeration of what our hopes and desires are.
同时, 反派表现的是我们心中 At the same time the villain has aspects of us
对自己崇拜超级英雄力量的质疑 that challenge the strengths that we're admiring in the superhero.
我情愿相信大部分人是认同英雄的 I would like to think that most people identify with the hero, heh.
但在这个时代或许也会有人支持反派 But in this day and age there might be some who identify with the villain.
我能理解带着把能喷射冰的枪去抢银行的行为 I understand getting a gun that shoots ice and going into a bank and trying to rob it.
我们理解诱惑 We understand temptation.
所有流传的老故事都跟诱惑有关 The oldest stories ever told have to do with temptation
无论是潘多拉, 还是亚当和夏娃 whether it's Pandora or Adam and Eve.
这是人类最最基本的特质, 而且会伴随我们终生 This very basic quality in human beings that runs with us throughout our lives.
现在存在着像小丑和黑手这样的反派 Now, there are villains like the Joker or Black Hand
他们心理扭曲, 想法阴暗 that are so twisted and dark
你喜欢看他们干坏事, 但你不会认同 you love seeing them do their stuff, but you don't relate to them.
至少你不会承认你认同 At least, you don't admit you do.
每个人都希望自己能隐形, 会飞翔, 能透视 Everyone wishes that they could turn invisible or fly or have x-ray vision.
而我觉得当反派最棒的一点就是大家都希望他们能进行报复 And I think what's cool about villains is everyone wishes that they could break bad.
要是一个反派无法释放出我们克制的那部分情绪 自我, 那他的存在又有什么意义呢? What's the point of having a villain who can't act out aspects of ourselves that we repress?
我也可以很邪恶. 听着, 我要把我丈夫的电话给你 I can be evil. Listen, I'm gonna give you my husband's phone number
让你跟他来场长长的谈话 and you can have a long chat with him. Heh, heh, heh.
我相信有些人会把自己跟, 比如说超人, 联系在一起 I think there are some people who really associate themselves with, like, a Superman.
另一方面, 有些人更爱莱克斯·卢瑟的才智 On the other hand, people covet Lex Luthor's keen intellect.
我小的时候超爱凡达·萨维奇这个角色 When I was growing up I loved the character of Vandal Savage.
DC重启了《闪电侠》系列, 里面的闪电侠是沃利·韦斯特 DC had relaunched The Flash with Wally West as the Flash
"无限地球危机"发生之后, 在最开始的两期跟他对战的就是凡达·萨维奇 After Crisis on Infinite Earths and his first villain that he fought was Vandal Savage in the first two issues.
萨维奇是不死之身. 哪有人不想长生不死的呢? He was immortal. And who wouldn't want to be immortal?
而且谁会不想对历史产生这么深远的影响呢? And who wouldn't want to have this far reach into history?
他是那种无物可失的坏蛋. 这种人非常危险 He's one of those villains that has nothing to lose. That's a very dangerous man.
他知道他一定会复活的 You know, he just knows he will be resurrected.
这么一个人你要怎么才能打败他? How do you defeat that person?
你状态不错嘛. 一直有练吗? You look good. Been working out?
你再晒晒可能更棒 You could probably use a little sun.
就又回到这个问题, 我有什么资格讲这个啊? Then again, who am I to talk?
坏蛋好像都很开心. 好像非常享受当个坏蛋 They seem to be happy. Heh. They seem to enjoy being bad.
大部分的英雄, 尤其是 Most of the heroes, especially of late
他们好像都心事重重, 愁眉不展. 从来没享受过什么事情 they're all broody and sad. They never seem to be enjoying anything.
但你看看那些反派, 他们就是在享受自己的人生 You look at the villains and they're having the time of their lives.
大家爱哈莉, 一部分是因为她很搞笑 Harley became popular because, in part, she's funny.
她跟小丑有的一拼. 她会说笑话, 逗人发笑 She can stand up to the Joker. She can tell a joke. She can get a laugh.
我在漫展上看到女生们扮成她 When I go to conventions and I see young ladies cosplaying as her
我觉得她们就是看到哈莉的那种喜感还有那种古灵精怪 I think they just tap into that feeling of fun and that she can just be kind of whimsical.
哈莉·奎因确实是个讨喜的角色 Harley Quinn certainly is one of those characters you love.
就算她抡个锤子砸人, 你也还是爱她 Even if she's smashing somebody with a hammer, you love her.
有一堆反派, 比如说拉弗利兹 There's a handful of those villains, like Larfleeze
也就是橙灯魔. 他会夺人性命但他又充满喜感 the Orange Lantern. He's deadly but he's fun.
他由贪婪支配并会为此取人性命. 但他还是很搞笑 He's overwhelmed with greed and he'll kill for it. He's still funny because of that.
他跑来地球听说有个叫圣诞老人的 He comes to Earth and finds out there's a being called Santa Claus
会把你心愿单上罗列的东西都给你 who gives people things that you list.
拉弗利兹听到说圣诞老人 When Larfleeze finds out there's a being called Santa Claus
会送你心愿单上的礼物之后, 他列了个超长的单子 that answers your Christmas list, he makes a giant list.
但是圣诞老人没有出现, 他气炸了, 说: When Santa doesn't show up, he gets pissed off and says:
"我要弄死他." 然后就开始搜捕圣诞老人 "I'm gonna kill him." And he goes on a hunt for Santa Claus.
很少有角色能让故事这么成功 There's very few characters that you can pull that story off with.
拉弗利兹就是这么一个角色 Larfleeze is one of those characters.
虽然反派或许诙谐, 或许迷人 But while villains can be fun, as well as fascinating
但他们也直接反映了我们的恐惧 they're also a direct reflection of our own fears.
他们迫使我们审视个人内心深处的恐惧 They force us to examine the deep and personal terrors
而这些恐惧是我们在日常生活中所无法克服的 that we are unable to face in our everyday lives.
当漫画作家创作出超级罪犯的时候 When writers create supervillains
当小孩子想象怪兽的时候 when children imagine monsters
他们都会试着去理解一个让人惶恐不安的世界 they're trying to make sense of a scary world.
都会努力地给自己壮胆 They're trying to feel strong.
这个时候会有很多的内心反应 They're trying to do so many things.
在某种程度上, 反派要反映出我们的恐惧和忧虑 Villains in some ways, you know, should reflect our fears and our concerns
既包括个人的, 也包括整个社会的 you know, both as individuals and as a society.
而且会随着时代变迁而改变 They change over time.
但更重要的是这些反派表现的是全球性的恐惧 But the more important thing the villains present is our more global fear
全人类的恐惧, 我们对失去的恐惧 our more human fear, our fear of loss
对死亡的恐惧, 还有对未知的恐惧 our fear of death, our fear of the unknown.
反派基本上代表着一切我们害怕的事物 The villain represents basically everything that we fear
或者一切我们要抗击的事物 or everything that we need to fight against.
视差怪是一个很赞的想法, 它是个星球的吞噬者, 把我们都吓得要死 Parallax is interesting because the idea that it's a world-eater, that scares the hell out of us.
某个宇宙怪物随时 At any moment some universal malevolence
都可能来地球搞定我们. 这是蛮恐怖的事情 can come and take us over. That's a pretty scary thing.
在放映《超人: 动画系列》的时候, 我已经不是小孩了 By the time they were doing the Superman animated show, I was already an adult.
但不管什么时候看到达克赛德那几集, 我还是会觉得: But whenever you'd watch those Darkseid episodes, I'd always be like:
"天啦, 局面会变很惨的" "Oh, God, this is gonna be bad." You know
你可不想小看一个 anybody who can make Superman bleed
能让超人流血的人 is somebody that you don't wanna be trifled with.
毕竟我们又能怎么对抗他呢? Because what are any of us really gonna do against him?
我真的把赛尼斯托和他的军团打造成恐惧的代表 I really made Sinestro and the Sinestro Corps embody fear.
他们就是宇宙恐怖分子 They're cosmic terrorists.
他们到地球就是为了毁灭海港城 Their mission when they come down here is to destroy Coast City.
"我们要把绿灯侠的城市打成弹坑 "We're gonna make Green Lantern's town a crater
把它变成恐惧的代名词, 这样这里就再也无人问津了" and a symbol of fear, so that nobody will ever come back here."
但哈尔·乔丹和绿灯军团说:"我们不怕. 我们会跟你们的恐惧抗争到底." And Hal Jordan and the Green Lantern Corps says, "We're not afraid. We're gonna fight your fear."
哈尔飞到他哥哥那里, 他哥哥跟自己的妻儿在一起 Hal flies to his brother's house and his brother is there with his wife and his kids.
哈尔·乔丹跟他哥哥说:"你们现在必须得走." Hal Jordan says to his brother, "You have to leave right now."
他哥哥说:"我们是不会离开的. 我们相信你 His brother says, "We're not going anywhere. We believe in you.
我们不怕. 我们就守着这里." We're not afraid. We're standing our ground."
然后另一位绿灯侠突然说:"哈尔, 你看外面." And suddenly another Green Lantern says, "Hal, look outside."
外面一开始有人在窗边放了一盏绿灯 And someone's put a green light in their window
然后另一家也在窗边点了盏绿灯 and another person puts a green light in their window.
瞬间整个城市就充满了绿灯的光芒 And suddenly there's green lights all throughout the city
以示对哈尔的支持 as a support gesture to Hal.
对我来说, 那一刻让哈尔再度充满勇气克服恐惧 克服恐惧, 勇气满格 And for me, that was a recharge moment for Hal Jordan overcoming fear
同时也是, 感情上对我来说: but it was also a moment, emotionally, for me saying, like:
"我们就是这样对抗恐惧的: 迎头抗击." "This is how we deal with fear. We take a stand."
他们就是我们的心魔 They're our personal demons.
就像说这些反派是我们对自己的恐惧 Like, they're the fears we have about ourselves
活生生的体现, 而且是通过非常鲜艳明亮的颜色 come to life in these incredibly colorful and bright
和或幽默, 或可怕的方式展现出来 and sometimes funny, sometimes terrifying ways.
每个人在生活中都会有这样的遭遇, 总会面临一些逆境 All of us face those things in our lives, where you face adversity in some way
或者知道自己肯定熬不过这次挫折 where you're positive you're not gonna make it through this one.
我相信我们都曾对自己说: And I think we've all been there at some point where you're just thinking to yourself:
"这个坎我过不去了." "I am not capable of overcoming this."
不过这个坎是些日常的小事还是真的大事 Whether it's a small day-to-day thing or it's a big thing.
反派们在宏观层面上代表着我们的恐惧 And what villains do is they represent those fears on this macro way
而英雄则是我们心目中所有-- I think, for the hero, who's the representative of all the things we think--
对人类能力的希望或者说对我们自己最大能力的希冀 We hope that humanity is capable of or we're capable of at our best.
当英雄们最终度过那些难关, 当然他们必须克服 Then when the hero overcomes those things at the end because they have to
这其实就在告诉我们, 我们也能 it says to us that we can too.
邪恶的特质
每个神话都由创世纪始 Every myth has a creation.
而正如我们的英雄一样, 每个罪犯也有自己的起源 Just like our heroes, every villain must have an origin.
而我们能在最受欢迎的那些罪犯身上看到哪些特质呢? And what qualities do we see in the most popular villains?
仅仅那么点恐惧感当然是不够的 Instilling a sense of fear simply isn't enough.
反派们必须层次丰富, 彼此间有细微差别 Villains must be layered, nuanced.
我们必须问问自己: 是什么让坏人成为坏人? We must ask ourselves: What makes a bad guy, a bad guy?
你想赋予你的反派特有的性格, 而且你想把他打造成个十足的怪咖 You wanna give your villain idiosyncrasies, and you want to make him strangely weird
有着奇趣的心理 and interesting psychologically.
这样的角色确实该有属于自己的故事 Those kind of characters lend themselves to having stories told about them
因为这些角色的框架非常完整 because their bones are so strong.
你可以往上放, 或说 You can put, you know
往上填充很多内容 You can hang a lot of meat on them.
他们有自己的历程, 有自己的故事 They have their own path and they all have their own story.
而且因为他们的力量或许相似 And, you know, while their powers may be similar
所以但求他们性格各异 hopefully their personalities are not.
如果一个反派只是看上去很猛或说只是虚有其表 If a villain is great-looking or is great just visually
却缺乏背景故事的支撑 but doesn't have a back-story
那他们的戏份也就没了看点 it really takes away from enjoying its run.
《蝙蝠侠: 动画系列》做的很赞的一点是 The wonderful thing about Batman: The Animated Series
它既把 is that they not only featured
DC漫画里高谭市的多个反派设为主演, 赞颂他们 and celebrated a number of DC villains in Gotham City
也讲述了一些他们的起源故事 but introduced a number of origin stories.
当然, 有哈维·邓特的背景故事 Of course, we have this back-story of Harvey Dent
以及他和自己的愤怒的斗争 and his struggles with his anger.
我们甚至能看到他和精神病医生会面的场景 We even get to see this session he has with a psychiatrist.
精神病医生对他进行了催眠 And the psychiatrist puts him into this state of hypnotism
并要求他画出另一个自我 and asks him to draw up his alter ego.
他称呼它为坏的那个哈维 He calls it Big Bad Harvey.
在接着的剧集里, 当然, 我们看见了他成长为双面人的过程 Later in the episode, of course, we see his full development into Two-Face.
而我永远都无法忘记那一刻 And I'll never forget that moment
当他冲出他的病房门 where he breaks open the door out of his hospital room.
在电闪雷鸣的时候转过头来 He then turns at the same time that there's lightning
我们看见了他面部的另一面的形象 and we see the image of the second half of his face.
黑手真正变得形象分明 Black Hand really came into his own
是在绿灯43中他的起源被揭露的时候 in Green Lantern 43 when his origin was revealed.
选择了本是个小反派的黑手 Taking a character like Black Hand who was a minor villain
看过他的经历然后说, "如果我们画出感情光谱 and looking at him and saying, "if we have an emotional spectrum..-
所有的颜色都代表着生命 and all the colors represent life
没有颜色的时候就必须代表死亡. 所以要有黑色." the absence of color has to represent death. There's got to be black."
黑手, 成为了死亡的化身, 拥有黑色的戒指 Black Hand, by becoming the avatar of death, having a black ring
自杀以便成为僵尸化的黑灯 committing suicide to become a zombified Black Lantern
是道格·曼克有生来画过的最好的场景 which is one of the best moments Doug Mahnke's ever drawn in his life.
恐怖, 扭曲, 且黑暗 It's creepy, twisted, dark.
人们一旦实际进入一点他的脑子看他是谁 Once people actually got to get inside his head a little bit and see who he was
那就差不多建立了连接 then it became much more of a connection.
英雄的动机普遍都很明确: A hero's motive is usually straightforward:
挽救局面, 服务正义, 战胜邪恶 Save the day, serve justice, defeat evil.
但是恶人们就被一系列不同的力量驱动 Villains, however, are driven by a variety of forces.
那可以宏大到占领世界 It could be as grandiose as taking over the world
或是直接强迫其他人分享他们的痛苦 or as direct as forcing others to share their agony.
他们通常更复杂, 更私人以及更让人感同身受 They can be much more complex, personal and often even relatable.
让恶人变得难忘的原因是他们行事的动机, 不管他们在做的是什么 What makes a villain the most memorable is the reason they're doing whatever it is they do.
不是犯罪. 我们看过了成千上万的犯罪 It's not the crime. We've seen a hundred thousand crimes.
我们看见过卢瑟闯进银行 We've seen Luthor break into banks.
我们看见过所有那些角色做怪异的事情 We've seen all these characters do weird things.
但他们为什么要做 But why they do it.
我们每个人都是被, 你知道, 我们单一的, 那些, 需要和欲望驱动 Every one of us is driven by, you know, our own singular, you know, needs and wants.
恶人们也是 So are villains.
无限地球危机中的角色反监视者 A character like the Anti-Monitor from Crisis on Infinite Earths
需要吸收所有的宇宙 needs to absorb all the universes.
那是他唯一的生存办法 And that's the only way he could survive.
看看真正的力量吧 Behold the definition of true power.
他并不是因为他在乎生命而这么做 He's not doing it because he cares at all about life.
而那使他变得令人恐惧因为你无法与他评理 And that makes him frightening because you can't reason with him.
他不是那种你可以和他聊天的智慧生物还可以说: He's not an intellect that you can talk to and say:
"你不明白你做了多坏的一件事情吗? "Don't you realize you're doing something bad?
我们不能想出其他的办法来吗?" 他不感兴趣. 他只有一个需求 Can't we figure out something else to do?" He's not interested. He has one need.
在已故的朱利叶斯·施瓦茨的指示下创作泥脸三代的时候 When I created Clayface Ill at the behest of the late Julius Schwartz
我想到了个怪物角色 I came up with a character who was a monster
他的人生一团糟 because he had screwed up.
他生来就有肢体肥大症, 也就是通常的说的象人病 He was someone born with acromegaly, essentially the elephant man disease.
在试图治疗自己的过程中 And in trying to fix himself
他成为了个拥有将钙质抽出你的身体的能力的人 became somebody who basically can draw the calcium out of your body
能将人变成一团像泥块的东西 and reduce people to little clay-like masses.
他并没有希望这么做. 这只是他能继续生存的方法 But he didn't want to. It's just how he survived.
当然, 还有一些是和复仇有关的 There may also be, certainly, revenge involved.
很多恶人都感觉自己受了某种方式的委屈 A lot of villains feel that they've been wronged in some way
来自社会或者心爱的人或者警察 whether it's by society or a loved one or the police.
冰冻先生就是这种, 当我们为了蝙蝠侠:动画系列创作这个角色的时候 With Mr. Freeze, when we developed the character for Batman: The Animated Series
我就想, "一个这么冷酷的人一定有变得冷酷的理由." I thought, "Somebody that cold has to be that cold for a reason."
基本上就是他得到基金支持来进行他的治疗自己妻子诺拉研究 Essentially he had some funding to carry out his research to cure his wife, Nora.
那个男人停止了资金赞助 And the man who pulled that funding
他就成为了冰冻先生的犯罪行为的目标 he then became the focus of Mr. Freeze's evil-doing.
他的任务就是追杀那个把自己的爱从生命中夺走的男人 His mission is to go after the one man who took away the love of his life.
他实际上对蝙蝠侠这么说: He actually says to Batman:
"这是我唯一的目的, 如果你想阻挡我, 你会付出代价." "This is my sole purpose, and if you get in the way, you'll pay for it."
这也就是暗示着, "听着, 如果你走开, 我不会伤害你." Which kind of implies, "look, if you just step aside, I won't harm you."
作为个恶人, 你可以争辩他究竟是否是个恶人 As a villain, you can argue whether he's a villain or not.
阿托希塔斯, 是由对宇宙守护者的愤怒所驱动的 Atrocitus, he was motivated by anger at the Guardians of the Universe.
他的家庭因为宇宙守护者而被杀害 His family got killed because the Guardians of the Universe
是他们创造了那些狩猎者, 那些机器人 they created these manhunters, androids
那些曾是绿灯集团的前任 which were their predecessors to the Green Lantern Corps.
阿托希塔斯跳过了悲痛的否认阶段 Atrocitus skips over the denial stage of grief
直接进入愤怒阶段并一直保持下去. 忘了进入下个阶段 goes into anger and stays there. Forget going into the later ones.
他唯一的要求就是让自己一直保持愤怒 The only bargain he makes is to stay angry
用他力所能及的所有方法追杀守护者们为家人报仇 and avenge his family by going after the Guardians however he can.
那也是为什么小丑这么吸引人, 因为他是那种没有动机的人 That's why the Joker is so interesting, because he sort of doesn't have a motive.
他知道自己是疯狂的 He knows he's crazy.
大多数疯狂的恶人, 漫画里大多数精神错乱的恶人们 Most of the crazy villains, most of the villains who in comics, who are insane
并不知道自己不正常 have no idea they are.
但是小丑清楚知道这点且爱着这样的自己 But the Joker is aware of it and he loves it.
他爱着这种观念也就是自己是蝙蝠侠的逻辑和秩序的破坏者 He loves the concept that he is chaos to Batman's logic and order.
而且, 明显的是, 最近大屏幕上对他的塑造 And, obviously, we have the most recent incarnation on the big screen.
希斯·莱杰的小丑就是对此完美的诠释 Heath Ledger's Joker is a perfect example of that.
他自己就曾说过. 他是条追赶汽车的狗 And he even says it. He's a dog chasing a car.
当他追上了, 他完全-- 完全不知道自己在做什么 And when he catches it, he doesn't-- He doesn't know what he's doing.
他就是这么做了 He just sort of does things.
而莱克斯·卢瑟, 他就是渴望权力 With Lex Luthor, he just wants power.
但他是怎样变成这样的? But how does he attain it?
他采取了哪些办法? How many ways does he have to go?
他为什么这么嫉妒超人? Why is he jealous of Superman?
因为他希望能比超人更强大 Because he wants to be more powerful than Superman.
那些凭自己能力成功的人都倾向于认为自己受到了命运的青睐 Those self-made men tend to feel that they have license.
倾向于觉得自己比其他人优秀 Tend to feel that they're superior to everybody else.
他拥有被认定为自恋的人的那些人格特征 He has these personality characteristics that one would consider narcissistic
特别是在他觉得自己有超人的能力上 in the sense that he has this element of superiority
觉得自己比其他人有力量. 觉得自己比其他人更聪明 that he is more powerful than others. Thinks that he's more intelligent than others.
也因此, 相信自己应该比其他人得到的更多 And, therefore, believes that he deserves more than what other people deserve.
他就是人类的巅峰. 他把自己变成了最完美的人 He is like the pinnacle of humanity. He has made himself the best man.
然后就出现了这个比他还要好的外星人 And then there's this alien that's better than him.
我在1980年的时候对卢瑟进行了修正 I did the revision of Luthor back in the 1980s.
我把他变成了个给大都会带来工作机会的角色 I turned him into a character who brought jobs to Metropolis.
他修建博物馆组建管乐团 He provided museums and philharmonic orchestras
他做了很多这类事情只为每个人都认可他是最棒的 and did all this stuff as long as everyone knew he was the best.
他想要权力. 他想要控制力. 然后他就很开心 He wanted the power. He wanted the control. And he was happy.
每个人都崇拜他让他觉得愉快 He was delighted because everyone honored him.
然后会飞的超人出现了 And then Superman came along, who could fly.
这属于自尊问题 It was ego.
"我是俯视每个人的人." "I am the person who looks down on everybody else."
但超人和他相遇的第一次, 超人说: And the first time Superman and he meet, Superman says:
"我会在这附近. 如果你想找到我, 抬头就能看见." "I'll be around. If you wanna find me, just look up."
突然出现了个超出卢瑟的人而他对此毫无办法 And suddenly there was somebody who was over Luthor and he couldn't deal with that.
罗马诺: 我觉得这也是恶人的自我部分, 恶人喜欢夸夸其谈 ROMANO: I think that's also part of the ego is that villains love to hear themselves talk.
他们喜欢听到自己的理论被自己所阐释 They love to hear their theories as expounded upon by themselves.
在某本漫画书中企鹅人有个评语: The Penguin made a comment in one comic book:
"如果没有人知道是你做的, 那犯下完美犯罪有什么意义?" "What's the point in committing the perfect crime if no one knows it was you who did it?"
莱克斯·卢瑟的大脑, 是邪恶的, 也是聪明的 Lex Luthor's brain, as evil as it is, is brilliant.
当他抓住超人使他无力化 Once he had him and he was incapacitated
无力到莱克斯可以对他做自己想做的任何事 to the degree that Lex could do anything he wanted with him
他可以在他面前自夸. "让我告诉你我有多聪明." he could aggrandize himself in front of him. "Let me tell you how brilliant I am."
你曾经不可一世, 超人, 但合乎情理的 You were great in your day, Superman, but it just stands to reason.
到了你兑现筹码的时候了 When it came time to cash in your chips
而这衰老的, 疾病缠身的疯子, 就是你的庄家 this old, diseased, maniac, would be your banker.
劳心者治劳力者 Mind over muscle.
恶人的这种浮夸的天性是嵌入了他所有的关键方方面面的 The grandiose nature of the villains figures into every one of those key aspects.
不管他们的人生目标是什么, 他们想做的重要事情 Whatever their mission is in life, the main thing they want to do.
有人想要得到大笔钱财, 他达到目的所使用的方法则是非常古怪的 The one who wants to get the money, he wants to do it in the outlandish way
有创造性, 不同凡响 the creative, different way.
当你想到DC宇宙中的某些华丽的恶人的时候 When you think of some of the more flamboyant villains in the DC Universe
你就会想: you sort of think about:
他们得到世界上的所有钱以后就会开心了吗? Would they really be happy with all the money in the world?
他们真能经营这个城市的时候就开心吗? Would they really be happy with running the city?
你知道, 他们享受这个过程的程度大于真正得到结果 You know, it seems to be they're much happier trying to take the city than actually having it.
那也是为什么你不会看到很多书来描写超级恶人们管理市政厅的场面 That's why you don't see a lot of books about supervillains now running city hall
或是"我现在是市长"或是, 那种 or "Now I'm the mayor" or, you know
他们拿着, 那些, 一百万究竟想做什么? What are they gonna do with, you know, a billion dollars?
所以我觉得那只是种追寻的过程 So I do think it's sort of more the pursuit.
对谜语人来说抢劫银行和偷窃钻石都不够 It's not enough for the Riddler to rob a bank or steal a diamond.
他一定要在抢劫银行和偷窃钻石的路上抛下线索 He's got to drop clues on his way to robbing a bank or stealing a diamond.
谜语人也许是漫画史上最擅长自掘坟墓的恶人 The Riddler's probably the most self-defeating villain in the history of comic books
因为他总是给蝙蝠侠提供线索导致自己的失败 because he's always providing Batman with a clue to his comeuppance.
他明显有某种深刻的, 黑暗的 He's obviously got some deep, dark
受损的精神上的原因, 就是那种, 从心底他是希望被抓住的 damaged psychological reason that, you know, deep down he wants to be caught.
他希望被惩罚 He wants to be punished.
否则他不会留下那些可笑的谜语给蝙蝠侠来解开 Otherwise he wouldn't leave ridiculous riddles to be left for Batman to solve.
走向邪恶的旅途是随在长长的人生之途后 The journey toward evil follows a long road
有着很多的可能性大道 with many possible avenues.
但对那些已堕落的, 问题仍存在: But for the fallen, the question remains:
他们是生来邪恶还是他们自愿地走上了黑暗之旅? Were they born bad or did they willingly turn down the dark path?
这就是苦痛一生的最终结果了吗 Is it the end result of a lifetime of suffering
还是说某个可怕的事故将他们永远的推过了界? or did one horrible incident forever push them over the edge?
真实的邪恶是否存在? 邪恶能单独存在吗? ls there real evil? Does evil in itself really exist?
还是说它只是一个反应? 对童年创伤的一种反应? Or it is always a reaction to something? Is it a reaction to some childhood trauma?
总是有各种不同的, 我猜, 原因或者轨迹来变成做坏事的人 There are a number of different, I guess, causes or trajectories toward evil-doing
或者说变成只做坏事的人 or toward a life of villainy.
最好的恶人可能是生来邪恶 The best villains probably are born bad.
至少, 你希望他们是 You want them to be, at least.
世上总是有, 就像, 他们也许生来邪恶, 然后发生了可怕的事故 There's always, like, maybe they were born bad, and then you had horrible incidents occur
促使了他们更深的沉下去 that sort of kept them down that path.
对这些特殊的经历我们有些真实的案例 We have yet really to have true examples of these particular experiences
如小丑, 哈维·丹特和其他恶人所经历过的 that the Joker, Harvey Dent and other villains have gone through.
所以我觉得这儿还有很大的虚构描写的空间 So I think there is a lot of room for the fictional writing
对某个事件的文学探索创作-- and the fictional exploration of one event creating--
完全重塑一个人是如何变成恶人的 Completely redefining a person where it turns them to villains.
我创造了个角色叫做人蝠 I created a character called Man-Bat.
这家伙是蝙蝠侠的粉丝 It's this guy who is a Batman fan.
他是个天才, 是个科学家 He is a genius. He is a scientist.
在博物馆工作. 但他有一点不正常 Works in museums. But he's just a little off.
他觉得如果他能创造一种提取自蝙蝠的血清 And he thinks that if he creates a serum out of bats
他就能把它作为一个礼物给蝙蝠侠 that he can give it as a gift to Batman
蝙蝠侠将拥有蝙蝠的一些属性 and Batman will have the attributes of a bat.
那不是很棒吗? Wouldn't that be great?
但总要有人来测试它 But somebody has to test it.
他就在自己身上测试了 So he tests it on himself.
就像化身博士 It's Jekyll and Hyde.
他变成了一种生物. 他成为了人蝠 He's turned into this creature. He becomes a man-bat.
你可以说, "人蝠是个恶人." 不, 他不是个恶人 You can say, "Man-Bat is a villain." No, he's not a villain.
他可能被恶人操纵, 但他是个好人 He can be manipulated by villains, but he's a good guy.
实际上, 他爱着蝙蝠侠 In fact, he loves Batman.
他认为蝙蝠侠是地球上最伟大的英雄 He thinks Batman is the greatest hero on earth.
他也希望和蝙蝠侠一样 And he wants to be like Batman.
但如果他像蝙蝠侠, 他就变得如同毒瘾患者然后变成了现在这个怪物 But if he's like Batman, he becomes a drug addict then becomes this monster.
你们都会在我面前弯下腰! You will bow down before me!
首先是你, 然后有一天, 是你的继任者! First you, and then one day, your heirs!
佐德将军是超人面对的一个出色的恶人 General Zod is a fantastic villain for Superman.
虽然他的一些行为缺少正当理由, 你完全能理解他为什么是现在这样的人 While some of his actions aren't justifiable, you completely understand why he is the man he is.
你知道, 如同稻草人 You know, someone like the Scarecrow
事实上他是屈从于其他人的欺侮 the fact that he was bullied into submission
被比他强很多的人所挑中 and picked on by way more powerful people than him
他太害怕而不能按自己的希望而生活, 因为他持续的被包围在恐惧的气氛中 and he was so scared to live his life because he had this constant air of fear around him.
那让他开始理解到为什么恐惧存在他的体内 It drove him to figure out why that fear existed within him.
然后在那天, 他明白了能用它来影响其他人的方法 And then at the end of the day, how he could inflict it upon other people.
当你写作的时候你会明白: You're writing it and you see:
"为什么你不能在这种重要时刻选择向左而要选择向右?" "Why can't you just go left instead of right at this seminal moment?"
这种故事, 我觉得, 读起来是既发人感叹又激动人心的 That kind of story, I think, is equally inspiring and exciting to read
因为不同的原因,但更因为你看见他们做了错误的选择 for different reasons, but because mostly you see that making the wrong choice
或成为艰难环境的牺牲品, 那样的折磨他们 or falling victim to sort of difficult circumstances and letting them turn you
扭曲他们最后无路可去只能进入黑门监狱或者阿克汉姆 and twist you that way is something that gets you nowhere but Blackgate or Arkham
或者是, 你知道的, 幻影地带那种地方. or, you know, the Phantom Zone or that sort of thing. Heh, heh.
想想这个 Consider this.
英雄和恶人的角色和功能纯粹是视角的问题 The function and role of the hero and the villain is all simply a matter of perspective.
如果我们调换焦点并从恶人的角度来看同一个故事 If we reversed focus and considered the story from the point of view of the villain
难道不就是他们是英雄而英雄是恶人吗? wouldn't they be the hero and the hero the villain?
你必须明白每个人都是他们自己故事的英雄 You have to think that pretty much everyone's a hero in their own story.
那些有趣的恶人角色 The villains who are really interesting characters
做事都有着肯定的理由 have an affirmative reason for what they're doing.
他们的力量来自于 Their strength comes from
绝对的确定性, 100%的确定, 他们是对的 absolute certainty, 100 percent certainty, that they are correct.
如果他们对自己做的事情不确定, 他们就不再有趣 If they're uncertain about what they're doing, then they're not interesting characters.
从蚂蚁的角度来看, 你觉得, 蚂蚁会认为我们是巨大的恶人吗? Perspective of ants. You know, do ants see us as giant villains?
我们四处走动. 蚂蚁破坏了我的野餐, 所以我践踏了过去. 完全没有思考 We're walking around. It's ruining my picnic, so I'm just stomping on ants. I'm not thinking.
底下的某只蚂蚁的角度看来 To someone's point of view down there
我们就似怀有恶意的巨人神, 并试图摧毁他们的文明 we are these giant gods who are villainous and are destroying their civilization.
所以这就是个视角问题 So it's really just about your point of view.
塞尼斯托想要控制科鲁加, 他的家乡 Sinestro wanted to control things so much on Korugar, his home world
他希望每个人都安全因此他开始灌输恐惧观念例如, "我掌控一切." he wanted it to be safe for everybody that he started to instill fear like, "I'm in control."
塞尼斯托是个把自己认同为英雄的恶人, 并拒绝相信 Sinestro is a villain who really did see himself as a hero and couldn't believe
他始终被守护者们排除在外 that he was being chopped off at the knees by the Guardians all the time
被认为没有去寻找 and being perceived to be someone who wasn't looking out
使宇宙和他的人通向更好的未来的道路 for the better interest of the universe and his own people.
然后, 最终, 那将塞尼斯托推入了黑暗的一边 And, eventually, it pushed Sinestro into a dark place
在那儿他只需要使用他的力量 where he finally just had to use his powers
来推广他认为是好的东西 to bring to light what he thought was the best thing.
而哈尔·乔丹则最后不得不阻止这个叛徒 And Hal Jordan ultimately had to stop this guy who had gone renegade.
这使他们产生了冲突 So it just set them on a collision course.
布朗: 莱克斯并不认为自己是个坏人 BROWN: Lex doesn't perceive himself as a bad person.
他觉得自己就是秩序和文明的代言人 He doesn't perceive himself as anything
不是其他的任何东西 but the agent of order and civilization.
你把整个星球的未来掌握在了手中 You hold the future of the entire planet in your hands.
- 我是来收回它的. - 莱克斯? - I'm here to take it back. - Lex?
你再也不能威胁这个世界了 You'll never threaten the world again.
我觉得卢瑟看待世界的方式是对的 I think Luthor is correct in the way he views the world.
他是对的. 超人是个外星人而我们不该信任他 He's right. Superman is an alien and we shouldn't trust him.
今天有许多的人和他持有相同的观点 He has a lot of people on his side today
在50年代里, 那是艾森豪威尔时代 in that I think in the '50s, during the Eisenhower years
一个有着各种惊人力量的超人 the idea of a superman with all these incredible powers
就算我们想我们也无法阻止他, 但他是和蔼善良的, 那让人觉得安心 that we can't stop even if we wanted to, but he's a benign force for good, that's reassuring.
在如今的日子和时代里, 我不知道那是否仍然让人安心 In today's day and age, I don't know if that's as reassuring.
所以想到有一个商人 So the idea that there's a guy who is a businessman
就是那种, 一个大亨正代替他的人类同伴们关注着 you know, a tycoon who's looking out for his fellow humans
一个实际上既无法遏制也无法控制的威胁 against a threat that actually can't be contained or controlled
我觉得那真的说出了很多人的恐惧 I think it really speaks to I think a lot of people's fears
关于今日的权力和力量 about authority and power today.
在近代故事中 In modern story
就好像它是活着一样 just as it is in life
正确还是错误的选择之间的分界已经不是那么理所当然 the choice between right and wrong often isn't so cut and dry.
英雄们有缺点, 有时候恶人拥有正义 Heroes are flawed, sometimes villains justified.
但是恶人有时是社会自身 But it's the villain and sometimes society itself
使分界线更模糊 that further blurs the line.
对我来说, 爱和恨的分界线也是如此 The same way there's a thin line between love and hate, to me
最好的英雄可能是那些有点恶行的人 the best heroes are the ones that probably act a little villainous.
而最好的罪犯亦是那些有殉道倾向的 And the best villains are the ones that might have martyr complexes.
现在的漫画产业环境下, 我们比以往更多的 Where we are in comics right now, we probably examine the line between good and evil more
试探正邪之间的界线 than ever had been done before.
蝙蝠侠总是努力保持自控 Batman is always trying to maintain that control within himself.
(他想)我父母就是这么死去的 You know, this is how my parents were killed.
我要确保别人不会再经受这种遭遇 I'm gonna make sure that doesn't happen to anybody else."
他是一个始终抗争着不让自己倒向邪恶的人 He is a guy who's fighting to not become a bad guy.
倘若没有那些人性之锚, 阿尔弗雷德 Had it not been for the humanizing anchors of his humanity, Alfred
和其他少数重要人物来管束他 and a few other key people keeping him in line
因亲眼目击父母被谋杀 young Bruce Wayne, traumatized
而深受精神创伤的年轻的布鲁斯·韦恩 by witnessing the murder of his parents before his eyes
很容易就会走上黑暗的那条路 could easily have gone the dark side of that line.
我真的想杀了他 All I've ever wanted to do is kill him.
每一天我都幻想着 A day doesn't go by when I don't think about subjecting him
用所有他施加在别人身上的恐怖手段来折磨他 to every horrendous torture he's dealt out to others.
然后杀了他 And then end him.
可如果我那样做, 如果我放任自己堕落到那个境地 But if I do that, if I allow myself to go down into that place
我就再也回不了头了 I'll never come back.
罪犯们也会有这样的纠结 There's sort of a power struggle going on with the villains too.
有些角色会有比较灰色的性格 There's the character that's sort of more of a gray nature
即便他们被设定为罪犯 who was originally maybe intended to be a villain
有些洗心革面的, 有些则因为太讨人喜欢 who cleaned up his act a little bit or who is just so engaging that you like him a lot.
以劳勃为例 You look at a character like Lobo.
无论如何他都不能被称为英雄 Here's this guy who should not be called a hero by any stretch of the imagination
但他确实有足够的荣誉感 but he's got just enough honor, I guess you'd say
比如, 他是个赏金猎人 like, you know, he's a bounty hunter.
有了目标后, 不管怎样, 他都不会辜负交易 If he goes after somebody, for better or for worse, he'll honor the deal.
他一定会抓住目标 And he'll track down the guy and bring him in.
劳勃的吸引力就在于他带来的那种 The appeal of Lobo is just the over-the-top black comedy and violence
过火的黑色幽默和暴力 I think the character brings.
他是个屌爆了的外太空车手 You know, he's a badass biker from outer space.
谁不爱这种人呢? Who doesn't love somebody like that?
死亡射手简洁明了 Deadshot is nice and simple and clear.
就像颗子弹, 从一处飞到另一处从不犹疑 He's like a bullet. He goes from point A to point B and he doesn't waver.
他是个有层次的人物, 他干这个不是随便玩玩 KIRSHEN: He's got layers to him. He's not just doing this for the sake of fun.
他干这个是因为他擅长这个. 他擅长杀人 He's doing it because this is the thing he's good at. He's good at killing people.
而且他只为钱杀人 And he only does it for money.
再比如丧钟, 我创造他时其实并未把他当成罪犯 With a character like Deathstroke, I actually did not create him to be a villain.
我想把他写成一个道德模糊 I created him thinking he was a character who was morally ambiguous
做事有自己一套规矩的人物 who was doing certain things for his own reasons.
他是个猎手, 雇佣兵, 刺客 He was a hunter, he was a mercenary, he was an assassin
但这些身份永远是在一定政治和金钱的基础上成立 but always on a political, for-hire basis.
后来他的儿子被蜂巢组织抓获, 他被迫成为一个罪犯 And then because his son was trapped by the H.l.V.E., he was forced into becoming a villain.
他不想当罪犯, 而无论他多少次试图脱身 He didn't want to be, and no matter how many times he wants to get out of it
他都失败了因为他有特定的道德信条 he can't because he has a certain code of ethics
即他承诺要完成儿子的使命 that says he promised to complete his son's mission
在完成之前他无法停止, 即便他知道那并非他的使命 and he can't stop until he does, even though he knows it's not his mission
即便他知道那是错误的 and even though he knows it's wrong.
阿曼达·沃勒是DC漫画最好的人物之一 Amanda Waller is one of the greatest characters in DC comics.
她是自杀小队秘密项目的政府方面领导人 She is the black ops government leader of the Suicide Squad
这个项目征召超级罪犯并强迫他们执行任务 the program that recruits supervillains and forces them to do missions for them.
她控制欲强, 非常聪明 And she is manipulative, super smart.
阿曼达·沃勒被视作反派的唯一理由是她是在艰难选择中间下决定的那个人 Amanda Waller can only be viewed as a bad guy because she makes the tough choices.
这是唯一理由 That's the reason why.
而实际上她这是愿意为了大局牺牲个体 And what she's doing is she is willing to sacrifice the individual for the greater good.
阿曼达·沃勒始终屹立于DC宇宙 Amanda Waller continues to be a presence in the DC universe.
她创建了一个美国正义联盟 She's created a Justice League called the Justice League of America
其目的是在必要时消灭真正的正义联盟 that is designed to take out the real Justice League if need be.
她为最坏的情况做准备是因为她经历过最坏的 She's prepared for the worst because she's experienced the worst.
她有着非常明晰的道德准则, 不管你喜不喜欢都不会改变 She has a very clear moral line and whether you agree with it or not, it doesn't shift.
所以那些探讨阿曼达·沃勒是英雄还是罪犯的讨论 That's why you'll have that discussion going back and forth
才会反复出现 of whether Amanda Waller is a hero or villain.
英雄通常有着坚定的道德信条 Heroes typically have a strong moral code.
不杀人 "I Will not kill."
谨遵法律 "I will uphold the law."
但就因为罪犯们犯罪 But just because villains commit crimes
并不代表他们就完全没有原则 does not mean they are completely without principles.
小人也有荣誉感, 即便那荣誉感是扭曲的 There does exist honor among thieves, even if that honor is warped and twisted.
我不认为人们可以像总结英雄特征那样 I don't think you can generalize about villains
对罪犯一概而论 the same way as you can generalize about heroes across the board.
我确实认为有的罪犯怀有道德信条 You know, I do think that there are some villains who have a moral code
或他们个人不会跨越的底线 or have a line that they personally will not cross.
双面人, 基本上他的道德感就在一枚硬币的正反之间 Two-Face, where he basically lets his morality be decided by a flip of a coin.
塞尼斯托显然也有信条 Sinestro certainly has a code of ethics he thinks he's following.
虽然他遵从信条的方式非常 And in a strange way he is following it.
他如此相信绿灯集团以至于他愿意作为他们的反面 He believes in the Green Lantern Corps so much he's willing to be a villain to them.
请允许我自我接受 Allow me to introduce myself.
我便是雷霄奥古本人 I am he who is called Ra's al Ghul.
雷霄奥古知道蝙蝠侠的身份 Ra's al Ghul knows who Batman is.
他本可以泄露 He can give it away.
但他没有因为他怀着对蝙蝠侠的尊重 He doesn't because there's sort of a respect that he has for Batman.
以及终有一日蝙蝠侠将倒向他这一边的希望 And he has this hope that one day Batman will come to his side
所以他不用泄露身份的方式来摧毁蝙蝠侠 so he doesn't destroy Batman that way.
例如无赖帮, 他们不杀人. 那是他们的底线 Specifically, the Rogues, they won't kill somebody. That's where they draw the line.
他们确实遵从他们自己的信条, 即便那可能是扭曲的 They do have their own-- It may be a warped code, but they have their code.
如果你对无赖帮说, 你们有个机会杀了闪电侠 If you go to the Rogues and say, you have a chance to kill the Flash.
这儿是完美计划. 我们就这么杀了闪电侠. 一次性解决他 Here's the master plan. This is how we're gonna kill the Flash. Once and for all we're gonna kill the Flash."
寒冷队长会说, 你疯了 Captain Cold would be like, "You're out of your mind.
杀了闪电侠整个正义联盟就会找上来了 If we kill the Flash the whole Justice League's on top us.
我们现在不想惹那种麻烦 We don't need that right now.
我们有别的计划. 我们不是想杀了闪电侠. 他只是总挡我们的路" We have this thing going. We don't wanna kill the Flash. He's just in our way."
无赖帮也出过更嗜血的版本 There's versions of the Rogues who have been more bloodthirsty.
我对那些版本无感因为我不认为无赖帮是那样的 Their versions, I don't respond to because I don't think that's who the Rogues are.
他们最不可能做的事就是杀掉闪电侠 The last thing they would ever do is kill the Flash.
而这不意味着他们读起来就会无聊 That doesn't mean they're uninteresting to watch
会不值得闪电侠与之对抗 or uninteresting characters for the Flash to go against.
这恰恰使他们更有趣了. 因为他们总出新招. 他们的动机都是什么? That makes them more interesting. Cus they wanna do different thing. What are their motivations?
最好的罪犯代表着英雄的对立面 The best villains represent the counterpoint to the hero.
两人在许多方面截然相反 A polar opposite in many respects
但也有着或微妙或显著的共通点 but also bearing subtle or sometimes striking similarities.
罪犯常镜射出英雄的阴暗面 The villains often mirror the hero's dark reflection
代表着英雄所面对的歧路另一头的可能结果 the result of a divergent path, a different road taken.
我认为一个好的反派必须 I think a good nemesis for a hero needs to have some of the hero in him
拥有一定的英雄特质 have some of the qualities of a hero in him.
他有多少阴暗的成分 You are defined as much by the dark side of the mythology
就要有多少等同的光明成分 as you are defined by this light side of mythology.
所以任何关于恶魔的神话都必须有天使, 反之亦然 So for every mythology about demons, there need to be angels and vice versa.
英雄与罪犯必须有一定的相反之处 You need to have a degree of polar opposite.
同时, 他们却也需要 At the same time, there needs to be those things
凑成彼此的镜像 that make them mirror images of themselves.
海洋领主是海王的镜像 You have Ocean Master who is kind of a mirror of Aquaman.
他像海王一样是亚特兰提斯的王, 但他是邪恶版的海王 He is an Atlantean king, like Aquaman, but he's Aquaman gone wrong.
他是走上另一条道路的海王 He's "What if Aquaman went down a different path?"
对于闪电侠来说, 一种是逆闪电 In the case of Flash, it's Reverse-Flash.
他确确实实是反转版本的闪电侠, 他的镜像 Literally, it's a reverse version of the Flash, a mirror of him.
另一种是寒冷队长 And then the opposite would be Captain Cold.
第一眼你就能看出来, 因为他是冰系的, 闪电侠会滑倒 On first blush you're like, Oh, it's ice. He slips."
继续分析的话 You look at Captain Cold and you analyze him a bit more.
初登场时, 他被称为掌握绝对零度之人 When introduced, he was called The Man Who Mastered Absolute Zero."
绝对零度意味着零原子运动 And absolute zero means zero atomic motion.
就是原子不活动 That means the atoms do not move.
当事物冷却时, 他们从原子层面来说会变慢 You know, when things are colder, they're slower on the atomic level.
因此在我看来, 寒冷队长 So that's why Captain Cold, to me, always captured
有着作为闪电侠对立面最核心的特质 the essence of an opposite of the Flash.
以蝙蝠侠为例 When you look at somebody like Batman
猫女于他显然是异性的挑战 Catwoman is certainly the sexual challenge to him.
谜语人是智力挑战 Riddler is the intellectual challenge.
企鹅人的形象近乎是对布鲁斯·韦恩的社会形象的一种嘲笑 Penguin is almost a mockery of what Bruce Wayne is on the social scene.
小丑则是一个更加恐怖一点的蝙蝠侠在普通民众心中的写照 And the Joker is the horrific version of what Batman is to ordinary people.
蝙蝠侠吓退罪犯, 小丑则恐吓普通人 Whereas Batman scares criminals, the Joker scares and horrifies the ordinary people.
黑亚当也是个不错的对立角色 Black Adam is another good opposite number character.
他的服装有点像沙赞的, 但他的是黑色 Kind of got a costume that's similar to Shazam's costume, but it's black.
他也从某种程度上代表着一种堕落的警察机关 He's also another member of a police force that has kind of fallen from grace
巫师保护协会, 沙赞和黑亚当都来自那里 the Wizards Protector Society, which is what Shazam is and what Black Adam was.
犯罪辛迪加的成员们已经有数十年历史了 The Crime Syndicate characters that have been around for decades
他们来自一个平行地球 they come from a version-- A parallel Earth, a version of our Earth
一个与我们地球上一切完全相反的地方 where everyone who's good is bad and everyone who is bad is good.
所以有了邪恶版超人即终极人 And so you've got an evil Superman in Ultraman.
夜枭是黑暗版蝙蝠侠 Then you have Owlman, who is a dark version of Batman.
女超人是黑暗版神奇女侠 And Superwoman, who is a dark version of Wonder Woman.
还有强尼·快客和权戒者 You have Johnny Quick and Power Ring. Power Ring is this Green Lantern
权戒者是懦弱版的绿灯侠 who's a coward.
犯罪辛迪加代表了完全反转的正义联盟 The Crime Syndicate represent the Justice League completely flipped on its head
成员邪恶无比的正义联盟 and if they were horrible, horrible, evil people.
从能力上来说 In terms of what they can accomplish and who they can defeat
他们与正义联盟实力相当, 但与正义联盟坚持的荣誉与人道相比 they're on par with the Justice League, but their goals are so perverted
他们的目标太过扭曲 compared to the honor and the morality that the Justice League have.
全世界的政府只有两个选择, 臣服于我们或者毁灭 Which leaves the governments of the world with two choices, bow down to us or die.
好的超级罪犯能从两个方面引起共鸣 The best supervillains that resonate the most, they do it on two levels.
一方面, 他们从心理上映射或挑战超级英雄 They do it-- How they psychologically reflect or challenge your superhero
另一方面, 他们在故事中做出对英雄的生活富有影响的事 and then also, in the story, what they've done to affect the superhero's life.
如果没有这种私人的关联, 这段敌对关系就变弱了 If there is not that personal connection, it just weakens it.
变成只不过是又一个想做蠢事的路人 It just becomes another person trying to do something dastardly.
一段好的敌对关系中, 罪犯应有能力进入英雄的思想 When well-paired, the villain's been able to get inside the superhero's head.
精准地知道英雄的弱点和恐惧是什么 It's almost as if he knows precisely what makes them vulnerable, what their greatest fear is.
当罪犯们真的有能力 When they make it personal and can make it personal
有办法进行这种私密接触, 获知英雄内心的秘密时 when the villains have the knowledge to make it personal and know your inner secrets
那才是真正精彩的时候 that's when things get real.
塔利娅·奥古, 她爱上了蝙蝠侠 Talia al Ghul, she fell in love with Batman.
所以当事态发展到要杀死蝙蝠侠的地步时 So when it comes to the point of killing Batman
在很多故事里, 她就此收手 many times in many stories, she draws the line there.
她不会杀了他. 她想要他属于自己 She will not kill him. She wants him for her own.
星蓝石不仅是哈尔·乔丹的上司, 也是他的女友 Star Sapphire was not only Hal Jordan's boss, but also girlfriend.
当她被操纵时 And when she was manipulated
她没意识到自己变成了星蓝石 she did not know consciously that she had become Star Sapphire.
这段故事很有趣 Then you've got this interesting dynamic
因为绿灯侠发现那是他的女友并且他必须与她战斗 of when he ultimately finds out that this is his girlfriend and he's got to battle her.
而他要怎样跟如此聪明的她对战又不伤到她呢? And how does he battle her when she's so smart without hurting her?
这种曾经是朋友现在变成敌人的角色之间的冲突 That kind of conflict of people who were once friends and become enemies
很接近古希腊悲剧中大量出现的那些关于背叛的故事 you know, it's almost like the Greek tragedies, these enormous stories of betrayal.
我刚完成了绿灯侠第20期 I just ended my run with Green Lantern 20.
在我收束这个故事时它不再只围绕哈尔一个人 And as I was wrapping it up the story kind of organically revolved around not only Hal
而更多的围绕哈尔和塞尼斯托的关系, 他们的关系也是绿灯侠故事中的关键 but Hal and Sinestro and that relationship is really key to Green Lantern.
有一幕, 塞尼斯托怪罪宇宙守护者 There is this moment where Sinestro, who blames the Guardians of the Universe who have founded the Green Lantern Corp
他们创立了绿灯集团 who have done all these horrible things
却又用尽手段想要毁灭它 against the Corps they created-- They tried to destroy it.
他们才是这个故事中最大的反派 They're ultimately the big bad guys of the piece.
塞尼斯托誓言要毁灭他们. 我要一个接一个地杀了他们 And Sinestro vows to destroy them. "I'm going to kill them one by one."
哈尔说, 我不能让你那么做, 并拉住了他 And Hal says, "I can't let you do that." And he grabs him.
塞尼斯托问他, 你觉得他们还能被拯救吗? And Sinestro says, "You think they can still be saved?
你觉得他们还能挽回吗? You think that they can be redeemed?"
哈尔说, 不是为他们, 而是为你 And Hal says, this isn't about them, this is about you."
我想拯救你 He says, "I wanna save you.
你不应该让自己堕落到那个境地. 你不需要杀了他们 You don't have to lower yourself to this level. You don't have to kill them.
你能成为一个伟大的绿灯侠 You can be a great Green Lantern."
他接着说, 因为我相信你 And he goes, "Because I believe in you."
塞尼斯托看着他说, 乔丹, 太迟了. 我已经把他们杀了 And Sinestro looks at him and he says, Jordan, it's too late. I've already killed them."
然后书中呈现塞尼斯托已经一个接一个杀掉守护者 And you reveal that Sinestro has already wiped out the Guardians, one by one by one.
塞尼斯托说, 我要永远离开 And Sinestro's like, "I'm leaving forever.
在我走之前, 我知道你有个问题想问我 But before I go, you had a question you wanted to ask me."
哈尔问, 塞尼斯托, 我们是否曾有一刻是朋友? And Hal says, you know, "Were we ever friends, Sinestro?"
塞尼斯托从来没叫过哈尔的名字 And Sinestro, who has never called him by his first name--
他从来都叫他乔丹 He's always called him Jordan.
他说, 乔丹, 这一切的悲剧性就在于此 -- Says, "You know, that's the tragedy of all this, Jordan."
哈尔, 我们永远是朋友 He goes, "Hal, we'll always be friends."
力量并非总由正义的一方独享 Might is not reserved solely for the just.
英雄享有惊人的力量或技能的同时 While heroes can exhibit incredible strength or skills
罪犯们也可能拥有与之相等甚至更强的能力 villains may possess abilities equal to or even greater than their foes.
罪犯们仅仅作为英雄们所面对的挑战是不够的 It's not enough for villains merely to offer a challenge to the heroes
更重要的是他们必须提供一种真切的可能性 but, rather, they must present the all-too-real possibility
正义也许不能战胜邪恶 that good might not triumph over evil.
你由你所攀登的山峰的高度而定义 You're defined by the height of the mountain you climb.
所以想要越过越高的山峰, 经历的斗争就会越艰难 And so the higher the mountain, the more the epic struggle it is to climb that
冒险越壮丽, 英雄越伟大 the greater the adventure, the greater the hero.
如果我拥有神的力量, 那我为什么不自己当神? If I have the powers of the gods, then am I not a god myself?
一个优秀的反派, 得让读者相信他能赢 A good villain, you have to believe that he can win.
如果你看到超人和一个麻瓜打架, 这一点不好玩 If you have Superman fighting a common mugger, that's not interesting.
你知道超人会赢 You know that Superman's gonna win.
这种莱克斯·卢瑟能够在智谋上胜过超人, 他比超人聪明 The idea that Lex Luthor can out-think Superman, that he is smarter than Superman
而且无论超人的能力是什么, 他都能想出办法来打败他 and no matter what Superman's powers are, Lex Luthor can think of a way to defeat him
的想法, 让这对组合之间的角力显得精彩绝伦 makes that dynamic between the pair of them brilliant.
亚当斯: 这就是我们为什么创造出了雷霄奥古 ADAMS: It's why we created Ra's al Ghul.
你需要一个对手, 就像福尔摩斯需要莫里亚蒂 You need a Moriarty for Sherlock Holmes.
如果福尔摩斯比任何一个罪犯都高明 If Sherlock Holmes is superior to every criminal out there
那他的价值何在? what's his value?
所以我们希望福尔摩斯有一个莫里亚蒂 So we want Sherlock Holmes to have a Moriarty.
我们希望蝙蝠侠有一个雷霄奥古 We want Batman to have a Ra's al Ghul.
我们希望他们势均力敌 And we want it to be neck and neck.
超人拥有他所有的力量, 因为他身在地球 Superman has all his powers because he's on Earth
又目睹佐德发现他也有同样的力量 and watching Zod discover that he has those same powers
我觉得超人和佐德能打几个世纪 I think Superman and Zod could fight for centuries.
归根究底, 这基本上就是 And basically, it just comes down to
全心全意的人才能打赢这场战斗 The person who's gonna win that fight is the person who puts the most heart into it.
当我在写超人的时候, 我创造了一个叫蒙戈的角色 When I was writing Superman, I created the character called Mongul
如今他在故事中的戏分已经非常重要 who has become very big in the mythos since.
基本上是因为我觉得, "好吧这太傻了" Basically, because I felt, "All right, this is silly.
你有个能够移动星球的伙计 You've got a guy here who moves planets
然后他得和一个必须智取的家伙干架 and he has to fight a guy he has to outsmart to beat.
来个能把他揍得屁滚尿流的家伙怎么样? What about somebody who can kick his butt?"
所以我构思出了蒙戈, 更大更高更强 So I came up with Mongul, who was bigger and stronger and taller.
而且他给超人一个实实在在的威胁 And he gives somebody a physical challenge.
咦超人得用心费力, 亲力亲为才能战胜的对手 Somebody Superman has to work to beat, just on a hands-on basis.
达克赛德是一个杰出的反派, 就因为他所拥有的巨大的能量 Darkseid is a great villain just because of the amount of power that he holds.
他有神一样的力量, 和他战斗并且活着回来不是一件轻松的事 He's godlike and it's not easy to fight him and come back alive.
去面对一个强如达克赛德的对手能真正证明英雄的价值 Going up against a character like Darkseid really proves your hero's worth.
反监视者也类似于达克赛德, 一个宇宙级别的反派 The Anti-Monitor is a character like Darkseid, one of our cosmic-level villains.
他是自然之力, 他是危险之力 He's a force of nature, a force of danger.
达克赛德和反监视者能够字面意义上的穿越时间和空间 Darkseid and the Anti-Monitor can literally cross time and space
并且他们代表着一种威胁, 又一次, 只有超人那样的英雄 and they represent a threat that, again, only a hero such as Superman
或者一个那种等级的英雄能够面对, 这就是他们为什么几乎更可怕 or a hero of that level can face and that's why they are almost more frightening.
话说回来, 回到之前的一点, 这也是我们为什么需要超人 Again, to an earlier point, that's why we need a Superman
因为他们得对付我们普通人无法面对的威胁 because they have to deal with threats that we as common people can't.
在势均力敌的战场, 结局往往扑朔迷离 In a battle of equals, the outcome always remains uncertain
并且有时候, 幸运会垂青于魔鬼 and, on occasion, fortune favors the fiendish.
反派轻松脱身 The villain escapes soot-free.
他们得到了幸运的转机, 或者成功给了英雄致命一击 They get their lucky break or manage to land the killing blow.
英雄在战斗中落败, 反派露出胜利者的姿态, 这意味着什么? What does it mean when the hero falls in battle and the villain emerges victorious?
如果一切都太干净太整洁, 那我们为什么要继续买这些书? If it's all too clean and too neat, why are we continuing to buy books?
那我们为什么要继续看这些故事 Why are we continuing to read these stories
如果我们不能意识到我们的英雄正在面对切实的威胁 if we don't have the sense that there's a certain danger
或者生命危险 or a mortal danger to our hero?
我们有一个非常清晰的声明. 我们说过: You know, we have a very clear statement. We said, you know:
"英雄必须每一次都赢 "The hero has to win every time.
反派只能赢一次. " The villain only has to win once."
即使我们希望至善能够战胜邪恶 Even though we want ultimate good to triumph over evil
在曲折的过程中也会有战斗 there will be battles along the way where there are setbacks.
"反派能成功吗?"的问题总是难以捉摸 The question of "Can the villain succeed?" is always a tricky one.
我相信他们能行 I believe they can
但明显你得很小心地弄明白它的界限 but obviously you have to make certain that you're careful, the extent of it.
存在着各种各样的反派 There are different kinds of villains
因此每一个反派造成的影响也是各种各样的 and thus different kinds of impact to what a villain does.
大多数犯罪的反派 Most of the criminal villains
只是去抢银行或者干些别的坏事的家伙 the guys who are just out there to rob a bank or do whatever
并不会留下长远影响 don't leave lasting impact.
像小丑这样的角色可能会影响整个系列 The ones like the Joker potentially can affect an entire series.
你难道不喜欢大团圆结局么? Don't you just love a happy ending?
成为一个超级英雄的风险中的一个, 是把你爱的人 One of the risks of being a superhero is that the people that you love
无论他们是超级英雄自己还是普通人 whether they're superheroes themselves or citizens
你把他们置于险境 you put them at risk.
对于小丑杀害了杰森·托德这件事而言 And so with Jason Todd, essentially that is what happened
本质上也是如此 where the Joker murders him
而我们有了稀有例子中的一个, 一个原初角色被谋杀了 and we have one of these rare instances where a primary character was murdered.
对蝙蝠侠来说, 这意味着难以置信的愧疚 For Batman, that meant incredible guilt.
那意味着他觉得自己对他的死亡负责 That meant feeling that he was responsible for the death
而这就是小丑本质上所希望的 and that was what the Joker essentially wanted.
我一直都喜欢黑蝠鲼. 你永远不知道他的真名 I always loved Black Manta. You never knew his real name.
他的头盔罩住了整张脸. 他杀死了海王的孩子 He had that helmet that covered his face. He killed Aquaman's baby.
你一定是个真正恶心的、冷血的杂种才能杀掉一个孩子 You have to be a real sick, cold bastard to kill a baby.
我觉得自己无能为力, 只能看着这个角色为所欲为的感觉糟透了 It felt so horrific to me that I couldn't do anything
他是DC宇宙里最冷血的家伙了 but look at this character and go, his is the coldest guy in the DC universe."
从很多角度来说, 我认为黑蝠鲼对于海王来说 In a lot of ways, I think Black Manta to Aquaman
和贝恩对于蝙蝠侠来说特别相似 is very much akin to what Bane is to the Batman.
这两个角色都能够 Both characters were very capable
并且确实对主要人物们造成了极大的伤害和痛苦 and did cause great harm and pain to the main characters.
当贝恩折断布鲁斯韦恩的脊背时 When Bane broke Bruce Wayne's back
这对全世界的读者证明了一件事 it was proof positive to all the readers around the world
没错, 这么多年来你们终于搞清楚了 that, yes, you got this right all these years.
这是一个没有超能力的超级英雄 This is a superhero who has no superpowers
可以说这个人最大的超能力就是他的人性 who, arguably, his greatest superpower is his humanity
他是有弱点的 who is vulnerable
他是一个你可以等同的人类因为他没有任何超能力 whom you can identify with because he has no superpowers.
而且现在, 也许是第一次, 我们更进了一步 And now, maybe for the first time, we're taking that one extra step.
我们破釜沉舟 We are crossing the Rubicon
展现给你看, 他的脊背被折断了 and we are showing you, and his back is broken
蝙蝠侠要么死了要么丧失了行动能力 and Batman is either dead or incapacitated.
我认为读者们还记得这个情节. 读者们对它有一种本能反应 And I think readers still remember that. Readers have a visceral reaction to that.
有人能伤害蝙蝠侠. 这是一个让蝙蝠侠 This is someone who could hurt Batman. This is someone Batman
即使在他最平静的夜晚也会惊起, 然后想到: even in his calmest of nights wakes up and thinks:
"有一个家伙曾经真正严重地伤害到了我, 他还依然在那儿" "This is a guy who once really severely hurt me, who's still out there."
所以我认为这就是为什么贝恩对读者仍然有那样的吸引力 So I think that's why Bane still has that kind of attraction to readers.
贝恩之于蝙蝠侠, 毁灭日之于超人 What Bane was to Batman, Doomsday was to Superman
就是具象化的残酷物理力量 the embodiment of brutal physical force.
这是超人的绝大恐惧 This is the great fear Superman has.
有一个他使尽浑身解数都无法制止的敌人 Having a foe that he cannot find a way to stop one way or another.
他是被设计出来杀死超人的 He was designed to kill Superman.
每一次他死去, 都会更强大地回来 Every time he dies, he comes back stronger
上一次杀死他的手段将不复起效 with whatever killed him now no longer something that can kill him.
毁灭日激起了巨大的骚乱 Doomsday stirs up massive chaos
并且给了超人他有史以来最大的失败 and delivers the hero his biggest defeat ever.
毁灭日杀死了超人 Doomsday kills Superman.
我无法想出另一个反派, 他的形象足以 I can't think of another villain where his appearance on the stage is enough that
震动整个世界 you know, the world is shaking.
我甚至认为超人之死本身甚至算不上一个故事 I would even argue that the death of Superman story itself isn't even a story.
这只是一页战斗篇章 It's just a fight scene.
这个故事来自于世界在这之后是怎样反应的 The story comes from how the world reacts afterwards.
当你去看"朋友的葬礼" When you get to see the "Funeral For a Friend"
你就会知道超人对世界的意义何在 you see what Superman meant to the world
这反映了真实世界做了很多事 which reacted what the real world did a lot
当他们意识到超人真的离开了我们 when they thought we were really gonna leave Superman dead.
他们悲痛欲绝 They went crazy sad.
不论何时, 如果在DC英雄身上出现如此惨剧 Any time you have that level of tragedy impacting a DC character
我们都会充分展示这件事情造成的余波 we go through and show the repercussions of that act
以及它如何影响其他英雄之间的关系 and how it affects the relationships between all the heroes
还有对英雄亲友造成的打击 and the impact it has on all their friends and family.
所以对我来说, 这不是轻易能够完成的事情 And so, to me, it's not done lightly.
我们永远没有结局. 只有不断的下一集 We don't have last episodes. We have the next episode.
而且我们必须要应对这些余波的影响 And we do have to deal with the repercussions.
并且, 话说回来, 如果这个坏家伙赢得过于频繁 And, again, if the bad guys are winning too often
那么这个英雄就不配他的名头, 他应该停止当一个英雄 then that hero doesn't deserve his own title and he should probably stop being a hero.
超人死去了, 但这不是故事的重点 Superman died, but that wasn't what the story was about.
他的死亡是故事的一页 His death was a piece of that story.
差不多是故事的开始 It was almost the beginning of the story.
然后丹·于尔根斯和迈克·卡林, 所有的创造出超人时代的人们 And then Dan Jurgens and Mike Carlin, all those guys created Reign of the Supermen
现在都集中于超人的回归 which is all about Superman's return.
蝙蝠侠折断了脊背是同样的事 With Batman breaking his back, it was the same thing.
布鲁斯·韦恩有多强壮? How strong is Bruce Wayne?
他的脊背折断, 但这个城市依然需要他 His back's broken, but the city still needs him.
所以他治愈了自己并以蝙蝠侠的身份重返战场 So he heals himself and comes back as Batman.
他克服了困难. 但有些时候反派确实会取胜 He overcomes that. But sometimes the villains do win
但它只是暂时的 but it's only momentarily.
任何将军都能告诉你这不是战斗, 这是终极战争 Any general can tell you it's not the battles, it's the ultimate war.
我觉得如果你纵观DC宇宙 And I think if you look at the grand scope of the DC universe
它总是正义战胜邪恶 it is ultimately good triumphing over evil.
最好的故事, 在某种意义上陪伴你成长的故事 The best stories, the stories that kind of last with you
是那些即使好人赢了, 也会为胜利付出代价的故事 are the ones that even though good wins, there's a price to be had for that victory.
我不认为如果没有任何代价, 英雄会获得胜利 I don't consider the hero having a victory if it doesn't come at a cost.
他们得牺牲一些东西, 个人的或者是身体上的 They have to have something sacrificed, either personal or physical
每一次他们赢都会发生这种事 that occurs every time they win.
他们不得不放弃一些自己的坚持来帮助人类 They have to be giving up something of what they are in order to help mankind.
他们都会做出一些牺牲, 当他们每一次穿上制服 They're making a sacrifice every time they put that costume on
每一次对抗邪恶并把自己置身险境 every time they're confronting something and putting themselves at risk.
因此, 他们的社会生活中放弃了一些东西 So, therefore, there should be something given up in their social life
他们的个人生活, 关于他们是谁 their personal life, about who they are.
由于他们的所作所为, 他们应该会有一点崩溃 They should be a little broken because of what they've done.
促使他们前行的唯一一个理由就是他们在为更好的世界 Only thing that keeps them going is that they're doing something for the better good
为帮助人们而努力 and for helping other people.
漫画的历史里, DC是特殊的存在 In the history of comics, DC in particular
它不是几百个, 而是有成千上万的超级反派 there are not hundreds, there are thousands of supervillains.
成千上万个超级反派 Thousands of supervillains.
我们没办法去讨论他们所有人 And there's no way we can talk about all of them.
你只能讨论他们中的一小部分 We can only talk about a fraction of them.
我觉得事实就是我们有那么庞大的一个反派群体 I think that the very fact that we have such a wide variety of villains
基本上, 从高科技银行劫匪到达克赛德这种 that can be anything from, you know
新神, 应有尽有 essentially, a high-tech bank robber to someone like Darkseid who is a new god
我想是他们加固了我们的漫画宇宙 is something I think strengthens our universe.
它们的存在仿佛是罪行组成的光谱 It gives us, you know, a great spectrum of villainy.
这邪恶的光谱绚烂而多变 This spectrum of evil is diverse and dynamic
幻化成了一个由不同罪犯种类和角色组成的庞大阵列 falling into a vast array of villainous categories and characteristics.
的确如此, 修辞和恶行的共性影响深远 Indeed, the tropes and commonalities of villainy are far-reaching.
首先要说的就是无法自控的猛兽 First off is the uncontrollable beast
肆虐人间并对路遇的不幸灵魂降下摧毁 that rages and rains down destruction on those unfortunate souls caught in its path
真正的怪物 the monster.
我最喜欢的怪物是我的-- My favorite monster is my--
传统意义上的怪物, 之所以它们那么经久不衰和吓人 The classic monsters, the reason that they're enduring and scary
是因为他们几乎—他们几乎和你爱的人 is because they almost-- They look like people that you love
或者是你关心和信任长得一模一样 or that you care about or that you trust.
你的邻居, 你的妻子, 你的母亲 Your neighbors, your wife, your mother.
有种什么东西感染了他们, 将他们变成一股无法阻挡的力量 Then something infects them or turns them into something that's an unstoppable force.
也许黄金时代最具人气的漫画怪物要属所罗门·格兰迪了 Probably the most illustrious monster of the Golden Age of comics was Solomon Grundy.
他是一具卡通化的尸体 He's an animated corpse.
英雄们, 甚至是蝙蝠侠, 都对毁灭他毫无异议 The heroes, even Batman, is okay with trying to destroy Grundy
因为他已经死了 because he's dead already.
我喜欢异魔超人因为他简直太疯癫了 I like Bizarro Superman because he's just so off-the-wall.
我是说, 他简直就像是那种具有疯狂力量 I mean, he's like just sort of a crazy super powerful
如同弗兰肯斯坦的怪物版本的超人 almost Frankenstein monster version of Superman.
如文学一般历史悠久的罪犯 A villain as old as literature
只不过是被原子弹的出现所增强 but only heightened by the advent of the atomic bomb
疯狂科学家反映出我们对科学的误解和恐惧 the mad scientist reflects our mistrust and fear of technology
对那些能够灭绝人性的技术的恐惧 of advances that could undo us as a people.
新的发明也许会是 New inventions come along that could be
对人类最美好的祝福 the most wonderful boon for humanity
抑或是埋下毁灭的种子 or it could mean the seeds of their destruction.
所以这解释了疯狂科学家就是一个由真实的恐惧 So it figures that mad scientists would be one of the true fears
合并为一个具象化的超级反派 incorporated into the personified forms of supervillains.
西瓦纳博士是个戴着眼镜的光头怪人, 笑起来很渗人 Doctor Sivana was a cackling, bald, bespectacled scientist
经常穿着一件白大褂 who usually could be seen in a white coat.
他无数次将沙赞几近置于死地 And he was responsible continually for the near demise of Shazam.
在西瓦纳博士以及莱克斯·卢瑟之前 Before there was a Doctor Sivana, for Lex Luthor
就得说说极端人 there was the Ultra-Humanite
他应该算得上是最早的疯狂科学家 who was sort of like the very first mad scientist.
他的大脑或意志能寄居在别人身体里 He put his brain into other people's bodies, or his consciousness in other people's bodies.
所以我觉得他可能还一度化身为美女 So I believe, at one time, he was a beautiful woman.
他有过许多不同的身份 He was different people throughout his history.
而如今是个貌似白猿的生物 And now he's like a white ape-like creature.
心旷神怡 Charmed, I'm sure.
这恰好说明了意志的力量 But that just goes to show the power of the mind over the matter.
外表并不重要 It doesn't matter what you look like on the outside.
那颗大脑只要活着就会是一个麻烦 As long as that brain survives, that brain is going to be trouble for you.
好战的统领 A militant general
暴君, 征服者 a despot, a conqueror.
这类恶徒很像现实中的暴君 This is a villain not far removed from our world's own tyrants.
我们叫他们独裁者, 或者称为霸主 We know them as the dictator, or more simply the overlord.
我对我的人民有责 I have a duty to my people.
我不容许任何人阻碍计划的实施 And I will not allow anyone to prevent me from carrying it out.
佐德么, 就是个关于权力的故事 With Zod, it's a pure power thing.
其实挺感人的 There's something very moving about the fact
整个故事一开头就是他 that this story begins with him
亲眼目睹母星爆炸 basically seeing his entire planet explode
家园破灭无一幸存 like his home evaporate into nothing.
我想不出比这更沉重的出发点 I can't imagine a bigger launching-off point for a character
也就能理解为何他不惜一切也要重建氪星 and then knowing that he'll do whatever he can to make a new Krypton
因为他情难自禁 because he can't help himself.
这是他唯一的选择 It's the only option he has.
这是他生命的意义 It's what he was born to do.
他就是为此而训练有素 That's what he's been training to do his whole life.
他为氪星而战, 为他的人民而战 He's fighting for Krypton, for his people.
他是名战士 And he's a warrior.
因此有能力对人类和其他生命犯下 And so he's capable of committing, like
骇人听闻的罪行 horrific crimes against humanity and/or anything living.
征服者海星体是一只外星海星 Starro the Conqueror is an alien starfish.
这只巨型海星在地球上逐城劫掠 Giant starfish that comes down on Earth and seizes control city by city.
在搞精神控制这方面, 它完全就是走《人体异性》风 Then in terms of seizing their minds, it was right out of Invasion of the Body Snatchers.
注: 菲利普·考夫曼1978年执导惊悚片, 片中外星人意图侵占人体资源, 所及之处人们如遭催眠般失去自主能力
作为现实黑社会的写照 Culled from our own Mob-laden underworld
犯罪领袖追求权位而道德沦丧 the criminal mastermind is both power-hungry and immoral.
为了满足自己不知饕足的控制欲 Feeding their insatiable desire for control
他们对领地实施高压政策, 使人们生活在恐惧之中 they keep the public in fear as they tighten their grasp on their domain.
显然犯罪领袖属于罪犯中的佼佼者 Certainly one of the great types of villains is the criminal mastermind
他们用恐惧支配整座城市或村镇 the guy who holds an entire city or town or village or whatever in a grip of fear.
企鹅人有俗称的拿破仑情节 Penguin has what is informally known as a Napoleon complex
身材矮小, 心比天高 the small man who wants to be big.
就算可能, 他也不会减肥, 因为体型能让他多占空间 If he could lose that weight, he wouldn't, because it helps him take up more space.
礼帽使他看上去更高 His hat makes him taller.
而打开雨伞能增加他的占地面积 His umbrella, when extended, helps him take up more area.
从最初登场开始 From the very first story he appears in
他就想进入上流社会, 成为罪犯的首脑 he wants to rise up in high society and wants to be a crime boss.
不少故事都提到他竞选市长 A number of stories feature him running for mayor
他并非想要丰功伟绩. 只是想要地位而已 not because he wants to do something great. He wants that status.
他渴望权力 He wants the power
渴望成为居于哥谭人人之上的大人物 and he wants the status to be the big man over everybody else in Gotham.
犯罪领袖衍伸自现实中的 The criminal mastermind is sort of an extension of the real
黑帮组织及犯罪团伙, 它们已经成为美国历史的一部分 Mob crime organizations or crime families that have been a part of American history
历史几乎同这个国家一样悠久. 这是漫画中很赞的一类角色 almost since the country was founded. That's a great character for comics
因为你可以把它看做是一种讽刺 because you can take that into the area of caricature.
最近黑面具人气挺高 Currently, guys like Black Mask.
还有谁比他更可怕呢? What's more hideous than a guy in this, you know
这家伙带着吓人的骷髅面具 awful-looking skull mask
穿着商务套装, 手握一只街头狂徒军团 wearing a business suit, commanding a legion of street troopers?
可以算是蝙蝠侠的劲敌 I mean, that's a great foe for Batman.
企鹅人与黑面具之流想成为哥谭真正的统治者 To guys like Penguin, Black Mask, they're out to really dominate the city.
想要成为哥谭市扭曲可怖, 怪诞反常的一面 They wanna be the distorted, hideous, grotesque face of Gotham City.
咱能来几个妞么? 小心许愿哦 Can we get some girls in here? Careful what you wish for.
说不出话了吧 Cat got your tongue?
伊甸园中的苹果 The apple on the tree.
海妖的魅惑之歌 The seductive siren song of the temptress.
蛇蝎美人 The femme fatale.
罪犯和尤物的特质在蛇蝎美人身上 The femme fatale crystallizes the qualities of both a villain and a love interest
兼而有之 all at the same time.
电影中有不少原型 You can find roots in movies.
不少女演员 You can find the actresses
启发了我们的一些女性反派创作 who maybe inspired some of the villainesses who were created.
这些女人利用美色诱惑 And these were women who used their beauty to lure the hero in
使得英雄们对她们俯首称臣 to get the hero to do their bidding.
在漫画中当然也有所体现 And that of course was reflected in the comics.
这是流行文化的一部分 It was part of the inherent popular culture.
毒藤女是从中获利的女反派典范 Poison Ivy is a great example of a female villain
因为她明白那些男性角色 who will actually take advantage, knowing that the male characters
那些男性英雄, 甚至与她共事的男性罪犯们 the male heroes, and even the male villains
都容易受爱火的蛊惑 that she's working with, are the ones susceptible to love
容易受与她交往的蒙蔽 to connecting with her.
她就利用那些假象来为自己谋利 And she uses those assumptions for her own gain.
她意识到自己的能力从根本上讲 She finds that her power is in, essentially
是利用他人的感情弱点以获得好处 taking advantage of other people's vulnerability to emotions.
她具有一切可以被视为物化女性的特征 She took everything that could be seen as objectification towards women
并将其用作自己的能力反过来攻击男人 and then used it as her own power and turns it around on the guys.
她喜欢控制别人 She's very interested in controlling people.
哈莉•奎因则是个畸恋的实例 Harley Quinn is a case of love gone bad.
一个倾心于超级罪犯的人 The individual who's fascinated with the supervillains
迷恋他们的自负和才华, 而小丑恰恰投其所好 fascinated with their egos and their qualities, and Joker plays to that.
哈琳·奎泽尔是这样一个女人 So Harleen Quinzel is a woman
她是阿克汉姆精神病院的见习医师 who is a psychiatry intern, essentially, at Arkham Asylum.
布鲁斯·蒂姆和我在《疯狂之爱》一集中 When Bruce Timm and I wrote the origin for her
写到她的起源, 便为她的个性所深深折服 in Mad Love, then we really got into her personality.
她本想写书来全盘揭秘哥谭的精神病罪犯 That she wanted to write a tell-all book about Gotham's psychotic criminals
却最终受制于其中之一乃至自己也同流合污 then wound up falling under the sway of one and becoming one herself.
她想达成最艰巨的挑战 She wants the toughest case possible.
最艰巨的挑战是什么呢? 是小丑啊 And who is the toughest case? It's the Joker.
这就是他们之间的关系 There's this connection that they have together.
我觉得小丑是在操纵她 I think there is an element of manipulation on his end.
他嘛 That he, um
我想他是欣赏她的, 不过他也清楚 I think he fancies her, but also that he's realizing that
这是他逃出阿克汉姆精神病院的机会 here's an opportunity for him to get out of Arkham Asylum.
哈莉可以说是个社交变色龙 Harley's a bit of a social chameleon.
她很容易按周围的人来改造自己. 与英雄们交往, 她就是英雄 She molds herself to the people around her. When she hangs out with heroes, she's heroic.
与罪犯们相处, 她就变得邪恶. 和小丑在一起 She hangs out with villains, she's villainous. When with the Joker, she's more murderous
她比以前要更为凶残 than she is at other times.
在DC世界中的一些女罪犯 Some of the villainesses that we have in the DC universe
- 几乎比男性罪犯还要强. - 一切皆有可能 - are almost more powerful than the villains. - The sky is the limit
只要你关注女性罪犯们 as far as female villains are concerned.
例如疯狂而残暴的豹女 Someone like Cheetah, who is crazy ferocious.
我塑造豹女这个角色是想 With the Cheetah, I wanted to create somebody
呼应神奇女侠戴安娜 who resonated with Wonder Woman, with Diana.
我们补充了一点背景故事说明她俩原先是朋友 We added kind of a back-story that they were friends
最终她成了豹女 and then ultimately she became the Cheetah.
而神奇女侠之后也发现她从没真正把自己当朋友 And Wonder Woman later learned she was never really her friend.
一切都是装的, 信任的纽带断了 It was all just a play, and it was a bond of trust that was broken.
豹女变得野蛮残忍, 她想要毁灭人类 And the Cheetah has turned into this savage creature that wants to destroy humanity
就好像神奇女侠想要保护人类一样 as much as Wonder Woman wants to protect it.
目前 At this point in time
我觉得挺幸运的, 能活在一个比较平等的时代 I think we're lucky enough to be in an era where there is a lot more equality.
也能看到好故事 And you're getting some great stories.
判断故事优劣是通过它们的情节 They can be defined by what their plot is
主旨, 目的和理念 what their motive is, what their goals are, what their methods are.
而不是单纯通过性别, 这真是再好不过 And that's great that you don't simply have to define them by gender.
女性罪犯的历史 The female villain, you know, historically
可以追溯到希腊神话 goes back all the way to Greek mythology.
比如咱们来看看赫拉这个角色 Look at a character like Hera, for instance
她可善可恶, 随故事而变 who is both a heroine and a villain, depending on the story.
历史中的其他女性罪犯也有着相似的复杂性 Other female villains throughout time have a lot of that same complexity to them.
例如猫女这个角色 You look at a character like Catwoman, for instance.
我想她的角色最初应该只是一个冒险家 In her original incarnation, I believe, she was just an adventurer.
会化身为窃贼和珠宝大盗 She was out there being a burglar and jewel robber
仅仅只是因为那很刺激 simply because of the thrill of it.
到80年代我们进一步了解了她, 了解了她的过去 We began learning more about her in the 80s, what her past might have been
那显然令这个角色更多面更可爱 and that certainly made her more of a complex and more of a sympathetic character.
而现在她成为了 And then to the present day where she is
正义联盟的一员 I believe one of the members of the Justice League.
因此她经历了从罪犯到另类英雄再到传统女侠的转变 So she's gone all the way from being a villain to anti-hero to straight-on heroine.
我们对这个角色兴趣满满. 她亦正亦邪 She's very curious to us. She has that duality of both good and evil.
我想正是因此她能引发共鸣 And I think that that allows her to be relatable.
我觉得她特别贴近现实 I think that she's the most realistic.
这样一个强悍的女角是很有意思的 It was just interesting to see this strong, female character.
她是一个先锋 And she was a precursor, I think
引领了一系列今时今日荧幕上的女英雄形象 to a lot of the sort of heroines that we now see on screen.
在电影电视中女角确实越来越多 Women really started to become more popular on the big screen and on TV.
因此我想到了猫女这些角色 As a result, I think of characters like Catwoman being portrayed
早年在电视电影中的刻画 in the early days of television and film.
如今, 就我所看所读, 很高兴 Today, happily, from what I have seen and read
男女英雄, 男女罪犯 you have superheroes, superheroines, supervillains, supervillainesses
能够在同一个平台上竞技 all on a level playing field.
只要在塑造强者时能不论性别 I think any time you can make the character strong
就能得到好的反派角色 whether they're male or female, you'll end up with a good villain.
这不足为奇, 也绝非偶然 it should come as no surprise, no coincidence, really
比较出名的那些英雄通常都是同 that the more popular heroes are the ones who typically battle the most sinister
最邪恶最有魅力的反派们作斗争的 and charismatic rogues' galleries.
正是这层出不穷的邪恶势力 For it's this dynamic roster of villains
支持鼓动了英雄们的人气 that bolster and buoy the popularity of our hero.
看看最棒的那些角色, 漫画虚构中最出彩的英雄们 When you look at the very best characters, the very best heroes
往往都有着最强的罪犯阵容 in comic book mythology, they typically have the strongest rogues' gallery.
超级英雄身边的罪犯阵容会更为精彩 I think you develop a better rogues' gallery around the superhero
假如超级英雄和罪犯们 if the scale of the superhero
能力相仿旗鼓相当 is one where it's easy to imagine the villain coming into being.
比如蝙蝠侠, 根本上讲他是个人类 You look at Batman, Batman ultimately is a human being.
所以他的敌人就可以只是比人类略强 So therefore you can have villains that face him that are human plus a little.
我觉得蝙蝠侠的罪犯阵容在全DC Batman's rogues' gallery, which I think is the best rogues' gallery
是最精彩, 反响最高的 of all the DC heroes, that resonates the most.
那些角色被认为是恶中之恶 Those characters are considered, you know, sort of the greater villains.
有意思的是, 蝙蝠侠的不少敌人 There's an interesting thing about a lot of Batman's rogues
尤其是企鹅人和双面人 and here I'm specifically thinking of, like, the Penguin and Two-Face
还有泥脸和小丑 and Clayface and the Joker.
都有某种生理上的畸形 They're all physically deformed in some way.
正是这种畸形使他们起了歹念 And that physical deformity actually drives their evil.
要为超人寻找旗鼓相当的对手就难得多 Massively more difficult to have villains of scale for Superman.
这个角色如此强大 Character is incredibly powerful.
谁又能是他的对手呢? Who's tough enough to fight him?
布莱尼亚克不用超能力就能对抗超人并获胜 Brainiac felt like a character who could actually fight Superman and win without superpowers
因为他是台计算机. 他是个计算机符号 because he's a computer. He's a computer character.
你就是布莱尼亚克吧. 好吧 So you must be Brainiac. Okay.
布莱尼亚克是个外星人 Brainiac was an alien who was collecting cities
在星系间穿梭, 收集不同文化的城市 of different world cultures as he moved throughout the galaxy
足迹遍布宇宙 throughout the universe.
他来到地球, 缩小了大都会和其他一些城市 And he comes to Earth to shrink Metropolis, among other cities
装在一个玻璃瓶里 and put it in a glass bottle
归入了他老家的星际藏品当中 and take it in his interplanetary collection back to wherever he may have come from.
咱也不想打超人的老是莱克斯·卢瑟或者布莱尼亚克啊 We didn't want it to always be Lex Luthor that was fighting Superman, or Brainiac.
但你发现有名的角色一下就都用光了 But then you start running out of the famous names.
所以我们就不停创造新人 So we kept coming up with new guys, you know.
寄生魔, 一个从别人那里吸取力量的生物 The Parasite, he becomes this individual who draws power from others.
他从超人或周围其他英雄那里复制超能力 He draws super power from Superman or other superheroes he was around.
从别人那里吸取生命力 He draws life force from other people.
有时甚至顶替他人身份 Sometimes even identity from other people.
金属人是个很有意思的坏蛋 I think Metallo's a really interesting villain.
我喜欢他很大程度上是因为他曾经也是人 And a large part of why I like him is because he was human
但现在却有了一颗氪石心 but now he's got this Kryptonite heart.
因此他依然有心, 只不过扭曲变形了 So he still has a heart, but it's a deformed heart.
一颗污秽的心. 一颗邪恶的心 It's an obscene heart. It's a heart of evil.
那颗心影响了他的所作所为, 也给超人带来了巨大影响 And that heart affects what he does, and it has such a massive effect on Superman.
超人和神奇女侠这类英雄的敌人数目有限 Characters like Superman and Wonder Woman, the rogues' galleries get a lot smaller.
神奇女侠的对手尤其少 Wonder Woman in particular has a very small gallery
由于她的身份和象征性 because of who she is and what she represents
以及角色的符号意义, 想从其弱点出发衍伸就比较困难 and how she becomes more iconic makes it harder to play off of her weaknesses
因为许多人觉得这个角色没有弱点 because a lot of people don't see weaknesses in the character.
没有哪种滔天恶行能利用她的弱点 There's no major villainy that could exploit those weaknesses in her.
我们通过让神奇女侠成为宙斯之女给她的起源又添了一个层次 We added another layer to Wonder Woman's origin by making her the daughter of Zeus.
因此她有神族血统 So she has divine blood.
接着我们想更进一步 And then we wanted to take it even further.
像是, "我们来创造一个新的人物, 一个新神吧. " It's like, "Well, let's create somebody new, a new god."
就是这-- 我们创造了这个叫做神长子的新角色 And it is-- We created this character called the First Born.
他没有名字. 他是宙斯与赫拉的第一个孩子 He has no name. He was the first child of Zeus and Hera.
他被逐出奥林匹斯山, 因为有一个预言说 And he was cast out of Olympus because there was a prophecy
他将会统治奥林匹斯 that he would take over Olympus.
所以她就有了一个被逐出神山且万人憎恶的最初的兄弟 So here is her original brother who's been cast out of heaven and hated by all.
因此他对他的家庭和世界怀有深仇大恨 So now he's got a major hate-on for his family and the world.
正如英雄们集结起来对抗共同的敌人 Just as heroes will bond together to fight a common enemy
罪犯们也不甘落后 so too will the villains.
只有邪恶联手才能与正义的融合相匹敌 The fusion of good is matched only by the unification of evil.
犯罪辛迪加, 秘密会社 The Crime Syndicate, the Secret Society
无赖帮, 末日军团 the Rogues, the Legion of Doom.
纵使他们成员不同 Though their members differ
所有的联合犯罪都贯彻同一个战术经验之谈,实战经验总结的战术: all villain team-ups employ the same battle-tested strategy:
人多力量大 There is strength in numbers.
我干这行最爱的一点就是 My favorite aspect of working in this business
在我创造了五花八门的队伍典型时 is when I have created various incarnations of various teams.
我们需要一个会飞的角色. 我们需要一个很强壮的角色 We need one character who can fly. We need one character who's really strong.
我们需要一个会点魔法的角色 We need one character who's maybe got some magical powers.
仅仅把这些特质加在一起就是很大的挑战了 And just putting that together is half the challenge.
此后故事通常会自己发展下去, 而非停滞不前 The story writes itself more often than not after that.
在超级朋友的挑战的开头 The opening of The Challenge of the Super Friends
你有正义联盟的成员在屏幕上前进 where you've got the Justice League members marching
而另一边, 末日军团大军在前进 towards the screen and then the other side, the Legion of Doom are all rank and file marching.
他们在步步逼近, 然后在双方遭遇的时候产生了极大的爆炸效应 They're coming at each other, and there's this biggest explosion when the two sides hit each other.
我的意思是, 作为一个6, 7岁的小孩, 你会十分震撼 I mean, you know, as a 6-, 7-year-old kid, you know, it blew your mind.
一般来说, 罪犯们单独行动且有各有独立的密谋 Normally, villains are seen as individuals and they have their own personal plot
想统治世界什么的 to take over the world or something like that.
但是把他们联合起来的想法, 让他们的威胁性大大增加了 But the idea of them combining together, you know, makes their threat that much bigger.
超级罪犯们的合作, 哈, 哈, 是他们自己特有的噩梦 Supervillain team-ups, ha, ha, are their own unique animal
因为一方面 because on the one hand
超级罪犯们的合作 there's a huge potential and disappointment ratio
既很可能会成功, 也很可能会失败 when supervillains team up.
成功的可能性在于 The potential is, well
美味的叠加是更美味 it's two great tastes that taste great together.
威胁的叠加是更具威胁 It's two threats are better than one.
当莱克斯·卢瑟和布莱尼亚克联手的时候 You know, when Lex Luthor and Brainiac team up
当小丑和谜语人联手的时候 you know, when the Joker and the Riddler team up
那令人难以置信的震慑人心又反响强烈, 威力无比 that's incredibly, you know, resonant and powerful.
问题在于百分之九十九的情况下 The problem is that 99.9 percent of the time
超级英雄们能破解他们的诡计(的能力) the ability of the superhero to overcome their plan
问题往往隐藏在超级罪犯们的冲突背后 is usually hidden in the conflict between the supervillains.
超级罪犯们, 他们无法做到行动一致. 一本漫画有22页 The supervillains, they can't get their act together. A comic book is 22 pages.
他们在前面19页里可以合作无间, 但是剩下的三页就 They can get their act together for 19 pages, but those last three are just, ugh
他们的联盟就会土崩瓦解 they're just falling apart.
我希望能以尽可能少的牺牲做成这笔买卖, 莱克斯 I'd like to complete this transaction with as little bloodshed as possible, Lex.
现在举起你的手来, 让玩具人把我们转回去 Now put your hands up and have Toy Man turn us around.
别盯着他看, 大男孩 Don't look at him, Big Boy.
古鲁德是头儿 Grodd is leader.
无赖帮和他们可不一样. 无赖帮可以为了一个共同的目标聚在一起 The Rogues are different. The Rogues can come together for a common goal.
他们是一群一开始看上去有点蠢的家伙, 但是你见到镜子大师这样的人 They're guys that seem silly at first, but you look at somebody like Mirror Master.
好吧, 这人能在不同的反射平面之间传送, 不仅仅是面镜子 Okay, the guy can teleport through any reflective surface, not just a mirror.
他能弯曲光线, 制造幻觉 He can bend light, illusions.
他可以在数个地点同时出现 He can make himself appear in multiple places at once.
我的意思是, 他一个人就有这么大的能耐 I mean, there's so many very interesting things that he can do on his own
当你把他置于一个多才多艺的犯罪团伙 that when you put him into a group with other villains that are versatile
你就有了一伙性情各异, 能力五花八门的人 you have a really cool set of personalities and powers.
虽然, 他们之间也有, 那啥, 特定的竞争 Although, they do have, you know, specific rivalries.
热浪和寒冷队长彼此看不顺眼 Heat Wave and Captain Cold don't like each other.
当然, 冰火不容嘛, 但是他们的矛盾事出有因 Yeah, one's hot and one's cold, but there are reasons.
在我们的"闪电侠逃亡"中, 所有的无赖帮成员 In our "Flash Run", all the Rogues
他们曾有过什么枪啦魔杖啦和一些机械物件啦, 倒回到 they used to have guns and wands and mechanical devices dating back
这些角色刚被创造出来的时候. 但是我们赋予了他们超能力 to when they were originally created. But we made them have superpowers
都是寒冷队长的主意，都是因为寒冷队长 and it's because of Captain Cold.
他让他们遭受了这次赋予了他们超能力的转化 He made them undergo this transformation that gave them superpowers.
造成了一些不好的副作用 Well, it had negative side effects.
拿可怜的热浪来说, 他的表层皮肤基本上全给烧掉了 For poor Heat Wave, it burnt off basically all the top layer of his skin
所以他看上去丑陋恶心, 所以他恨透了寒冷队长让他变成这副尊容 so he looks really gross and messed up, so he hates Captain Cold for making him that way.
为什么他们还要一起行动呢? Why do they hang out together?
人多力量大, 闪电侠又够快 There's strength in numbers, and Flash is fast enough
能同时对付好几个人 he can fight more than one person at a time.
关于无赖帮有一点很重要 There's something about the Rogues.
他们想干好手头的活儿, 不被打扰地好好生活 They wanna pull their jobs, live their lives and be alone.
他们的职业就是从事抢劫和偷盗 Like, it's their job to pull off heists and steal stuff.
他们以此维生. 他们把自己视作蓝领阶级 That's how they make their living. They consider themselves blue-collar guys.
"我们要开一瓶啤酒然后把抢银行赚来的钱花个一干二净." "Gonna pop a beer and we're gonna spend the money we made by robbing the bank."
你还能想到别的罪犯(这么二)么? 他们实施抢劫, 逃脱闪电侠的追捕 What other villains can you think about? They pull a heist, they escape the Flash
- 然后他们跑去酒吧大喝一场? - 自杀小队是个例外 - and then they go to a bar to have a beer? - The Suicide Squad is the exception to the rule.
好玩的是, 这可是一群罪犯 And what makes it interesting is it's a bunch of villains
被政府逼着执行有益于人民的任务 who are forced by the government to go on missions that are for the good of the people.
若他们失败了, 他们要是胆敢尝试逃跑, 装在他们身上的设备会要了他们的命，炸死他们 And if they fail, if they decide to try and escape, they have devices that will kill them.
所以他们被迫去干好事 So they are forced to do it.
我认为他们被迫违背天性行英雄事迹这一事实 I think the fact that they are forced to be heroes despite their own instincts
和他们不停地想法子破坏任务 and that they're constantly trying to work out ways to undermine missions
有时背叛队友, 再度沦为犯罪, 尽管他们-- and to sometimes betray their teammates and be villains even while they're--
被强迫着做好事, 才促使这支队伍,这本漫画连载 When they're forced to do the right thing is the reason why that team, that book
- 长盛不衰, 广受欢迎 - 他们没有一个是自愿的 - is always around and is always popular. - None of their motivation is theirs.
他们按阿曼达·沃勒和政府的命令行事 They're doing the bidding of Amanda Waller and the government.
那些在自杀小队成员身上植入炸弹 Are the people that are planting these bombs
的家伙 on the backs of the Suicide Squad members
他们能称为英雄么? are they the heroes?
他们据说是英雄 You know, purportedly they are.
但是他们的那些手段, 真的, 归根结底 But the way they're doing it, it really, you know comes down to
就是极端化的水刑, 我觉得 it's an extreme form of water boarding, I think.
他们有充分的理由去恨他们的管理者, 那些本应是好人的人 They have reason to hate their handlers, who are supposed to be the good guys
在这些漫画里却没有以那种方式呈现 but they're not seen that way in the books.
所以, 研究什么促成罪犯, 什么促成英雄是一个非常有趣的议题 So it's an interesting study in what makes a villain and what makes a hero
原因是这本书里有一个反转 because it's kind of flip-flopped in that book.
他们不是要和自己身边的人作对/毁掉站在身边的人 They're not there to personally screw the other guy standing next to them.
他们只是想要活下去 They are there to just survive.
而且他们-- 他们不想让这些任务变成他们的最后一战 And they are-- They don't want it to be their suicide mission.
我确实觉得这是一个与众不同, 标新立异的视角 And I do think that that's of a different and new angle.
自杀小队很成功, 因为小队的成员是流动的 Suicide Squad is successful, because it has a rotating cast.
你随时可以处决某个成员. 一直以来, 队员身上发生的事可能会改变现状 You could kill some members off. There's always that question
这个问题一直困扰着他们 of something happening to the cast that could change the status quo.
不祥的预感总是告诉他们, 假如任务出现差错 There's always that anticipation that if a mission goes wrong
也许真的会有人牺牲 somebody could actually die.
这是一种原始的生存本能 It's a gut-level survival instinct.
对读者来说, 你就会想: For the reader, you're just like:
"谁能完成这个任务, 要如何完成呢?" "Who's gonna make it through this mission and how?"
然后, 他们要怎么才能获得真正的自由呢 You know, and then, you know, are they gonna manage to actually get free
所以他们能干掉阿曼达·沃勒吗?" 呵, 呵, 呵 so they can take care of Amanda Waller?" Heh, heh, heh.
有时候某个罪犯太强大 Sometimes it's more exciting to find a villain that's so powerful
整只队伍的实力加起来都不能扳倒他们, 这就更有趣了 the combined might of an entire team can't defeat them.
超级英雄和超级罪犯们因此不得不团结合作 So the superheroes and the supervillains have to band together
把分歧先搁置起来 put aside their differences.
你总能看到他们握手言和的那种经典场景 You always have that classic shot where they reach out and shake hands with one another
然后说, "我们联手吧. " and, like, "Let's team up."
对我来说, 那简直是最与众不同的组合 And, to me, that's like the ultimate odd couple.
问题是并没有多少那样的罪犯 The problem is though that there aren't that many of those kinds of villains.
所以找一个至尊无敌的罪犯一直是难题 So it's always a challenge to find one villain powerful enough to take out all of them.
有意思的是莱克斯·卢瑟这种人就办得到 It's interesting that someone like Lex Luthor could do it
因为他比谁心思都深/智力超群/比谁都考虑周全/能以超凡的智力取胜于人 just because he has the skill to out-think them.
所以武力不会永远是决定因素. 未知因素有时也很重要 So it isn't always power. Sometimes it's that X-factor.
但是你如果能写出好的故事情节 But if you can manage to do the right storyline
这仍然可以很有意思, 也是个大挑战 again, it can be a lot of fun and a really great challenge.
我不是来挑战你的权威的, 达克赛德. 恰恰相反 I'm not here to challenge you, Darkseid. Quite the contrary.
我手里有你想要的东西. 你唯一渴望的东西 I've got something you want. The only thing you want.
人们会产生共鸣 People can identify with that
因为当我们的生存之道 because when we're faced with something that endangers
遭到威胁的时候 our way of life
我们能够抛开歧见团结起来 we can set aside our differences and work together.
英雄与罪犯仅一线之隔 A fine line exists between a hero and villain.
有时界限被打破了 And sometimes the line is crossed.
实际上, 英雄也就成了罪犯 In essence, the hero becomes the villain.
可是英雄一旦迷途, 他们还能被拯救么? But when a hero loses their way, is salvation possible?
文学作品的一大经典命题 One of the great classic stories of literature
乃是好人被腐蚀的戏码 is the drama of the good man goes bad.
什么样的惨剧能导致我们遭受 What is it that can happen to us that puts us through
一系列的苦难, 让我们违背道德原则, 犯下弥天大错? a set of circumstances that drives us to do something we don't morally believe in?
那样的故事震撼人心 That's a powerful tale.
想要改变/腐蚀一个英雄, 你需要弄清楚如何打动他们的道德核心 Trying to turn a hero, you have to actually figure out how to affect their moral center.
让他们面对星球的毁灭, 城市的毁灭 It's in the face of a planet being blown up, a city being blown up
或是妻子爱人之死 or a wife or a lover dying.
那种"我不够强, 我威力不够大, 也许" And the idea that "I wasn't strong enough, I wasn't powerful enough and perhaps
问题出在我行侠仗义, 逞英雄上 me doing the right thing or being a hero was the problem.
假如我更邪恶残忍, 我也许能改变现状."的想法 If I'd been more vicious, if I'd been more brutal, I could have changed things."
我认为每一次使英雄沦为罪犯的转变都起源于此 I think every great turn of a hero to a villain, it comes from that.
李: 在不义联盟中, 出现了小丑杀死路易斯的情节 LEE: In Injustice, the storyline is that the Joker has killed Lois
差点逼疯超人的不仅仅是路易斯的死 and it's not just Lois' death that drives Superman to almost a level of insanity
还因为路易斯已怀上了他的孩子 but the fact that Lois was carrying his child
所以这对他意味着双重的重要性和打击 and so it has double significance and impact on him.
足以让他变坏了 That's enough.
到了这个地步, 他找不到自己的参考系了 At that point, he kind of loses his frame of reference
所以决心建立一个类似极权的国家 and decides to create almost a totalitarian state
他在这个国度里是至高无上的权威. 所以他又想 where he's the ultimate authority. So again in his mind
他是为了防止路易斯和他未出生的孩子的惨剧在这个世界再次发生 he is trying to prevent what happened to Lois and his unborn child
他因此成为了 from happening in the world by becoming
一个茅塞顿开的独裁者 you know, the enlightened dictator.
然而, 这个逻辑是有漏洞的 But, you know, you see sort of the holes in logic of that.
最终, 这是干了更大的坏事/助长了邪恶的气焰 You know, ultimately, you are creating a greater evil
尽管初衷是好的/本来是想做点好事 by trying to do some small sense of good.
有许多故事都讲述了英雄有时会变坏 There have been a few stories where heroes go villainous for some time
而我觉得最有名的要数哈尔·乔丹, 当海岸城 and I think probably the most famous one is Hal Jordan when Coast City
他的家之所在, 遭到攻击 the city he called home, was attacked.
死伤无数, 家毁人亡. 他想挽回这一切 And many people were killed and destroyed and he wanted to bring them back.
他就去找守护者们, 说, "赐予我力量, 这样我就能做到." And he went to the Guardians and said, "Give me this power so I can do it."
他们拒绝了他, 于是他最终杀害了他们 And they said no, and he ultimately killed them
然后自己-- and became--
疯魔了, 成了DC宇宙里的一个大罪犯/反派 Went crazy, became this big villain in the DC universe.
据说权力使人堕落, 绝对的权力让人堕落得更深/深陷堕落的泥沼 You know, they say that power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely.
当一个英雄坠入魔道, 原因总是他们被自己的力量压垮/屈服于自己的力量 Usually when a hero falls from grace it's because they've succumbed
就像哈尔·乔丹变成视差怪时一样 to their own power, like when Hal Jordan became Parallax.
哈尔·乔丹做过了头 It was Hal Jordan overreaching
试图用他绿灯侠的力量再造整座城市 and trying to use his power as the Green Lantern to recreate an entire city
他对力量的欲望越来越大 and he kept wanting more and more power.
他实际上是被自己的力量腐蚀了 And he basically got corrupted by his own
被自己的超能力所腐蚀 You know, by his own super power.
我想这往往就是堕落之路-- 通往黑暗之路 And I think that is usually the path down-- You know, down darkness.
通过成为幽灵 Through becoming the Spectre
又最终重回绿灯侠之列, 他得到了救赎 and ultimately becoming Green Lantern again he found redemption.
但花费了数年, 这是一段我们必须见证的伟大英雄的旅程 But it took years and it was a great hero's journey that we got to witness.
哈尔·乔丹的角色定位就是常常要克服恐惧, 于是我想, " Hal Jordan was always about overcoming fear and I thought, "Well
倘若他从来都能战胜恐惧, 那总有他向恐惧屈服的时候 if he's all about overcoming fear, there's gotta be a moment that he gave in to fear.
他什么时候最脆弱呢?" 他在担忧的时候最脆弱 When was that weakness?" That weak point was when he was worried
一旦海岸城被毁, 情况就会有所不同 something else was gonna happen once Coast City was destroyed.
那个时候, 他放任恐惧控制了心灵 And in that moment, he let fear kind of take hold of his heart.
恰好这时赛尼斯托释放了视差怪, 这个-- That's when Sinestro unleashed Parallax, who was this--
我们创造了这个能控制他的灵魂, 腐蚀他的肉体的恐惧的本体 We created this entity of terror that could possess his soul and corrupt his body.
然后本质上把他变成了视差怪 And essentially turn him into Parallax.
正因为哈尔也会犯错, 也会向恐惧屈服 And by having Hal still make a mistake and give in to fear
这也在情理之中(?), 给予他一点挫折 it was still on point and gave him a point of failure.
但与此同时 But at the same time
加入视差怪这个角色让赎罪变容易了 adding Parallax allowed for an easier redemption.
所以假如一个英雄真的越过了底线 And so if a hero does cross the line
他第二天就会恢复原样, 返回工作岗位么? 并非如此 does he just go back to work the next day? The idea was no.
对他来说, 这将是一个长久性问题 It was a 10-year problem for him.
我认为, 漫画书所讲的本质是对需求的满足 Comic books, by, I think, their basic nature is about wish fulfillment.
所以, 第二次机会的概念 Therefore, the concept of second chances
实际上是构建在我们所做素材的概念之中 is actually built into the very concept of the type of material we do.
所以一个英雄或者罪犯能否得到救赎 So the idea that a hero or a villain could be redeemed
正是漫画所要讲的 is exactly what comics have to be about.
我们可以把坏人变成好人 We can take bad and turn it good.
也可以把好人变得更好 And we can make good even better.
这些都是漫画和虚幻故事所要讲的 And that's what comics and fantasy storytelling is all about.
《正义的呐喊》 开头讲的是一群英雄努力追捕普罗米修斯 Cry for Justice began with a bunch of heroes trying to track down Prometheus.
实际上普罗米修斯已经盗用了某个英雄的身份 Prometheus has actually taken the identity of one of the heroes.
所以实际上他一直都藏匿于他们之间 So he actually is amongst them the entire time.
在故事的最后 At the end of it
普罗米修斯想出了一个办法基本摧毁了星城 Prometheus has worked out a way to destroy most of Star City
那里正是绿箭的家乡 which is Green Arrow's home.
他也将军火库打成残废 He also maims Arsenal
最终军火库的女儿也被杀了 and then ultimately Arsenal's daughter is killed.
绿箭, 一个有节制的人 What happens at the very end is the one moderate person
在最后独自一人去追捕普罗米修斯并处决了他 Green Arrow, then tracks down Prometheus on his own and executes him.
这导致绿箭进行长时间的自我救赎 And that then led to a long arc for Green Arrow where he had to redeem himself.
绿箭超出了自己的底线, 杀了一名罪犯 Green Arrow crossed the line and took the life of a villain.
从冒险归来之后 He did not just come back from that adventure
他并没有说: "哦, 好吧, 我以后再也不杀人了" and say, "Oh, well, I'm never gonna kill people again."
他已经精神崩溃, 我们编了一个维持一年的 He had a mental breakdown, and we did a year
一年半的故事来讲他失去理智的情节 a year and a half long story where he lost it.
这是用来说明做这种事情是有后果的 And it was to show that there's consequences for this kind of stuff.
我的确认为在现代漫画中, 英雄们可以陨落 I do think that in modern comics, it's okay for the heroes to fail.
你必须让它有意义 You just got to have it mean something.
而且不仅仅是教育他们 And not just teach them something
而且要让他们因做错事而受折磨 but have them suffer because they did something wrong.
夺取某人的生命, 或者夺取他们一直拥有的东西 Taking someone's life, you take away all they're gonna have and ever will be.
罪恶感会一直跟随着你, 即使是你那样做是出于正确的原因 And it stays with you even if you do it for the right and proper thing.
所以, 杀人这种行为在漫画中是-- 当英雄扣下扳机 So, you know, killing in comics is-- When the hero pulls the trigger
我觉得这并不是什么大事, 但是一旦已经发生了 I think it's not done a lot, but I think when it's done
那么一定是以很重大的方式发生的 it has to be done in a real big way
并对英雄的心灵与精神都造成了情感打击 that has an emotional punch to the hero's psyche and soul.
在我们目睹如此十恶不赦的罪行之后 After we've witnessed such heinous crimes
在我们直接体验到 after we've experienced firsthand
恶行中的纯粹邪恶之后, 作恶之人能否得到救赎？ pure evil in the face of villainy, can the evildoer be redeemed?
在这个英雄们通常可以得到第二次机会的漫画世界中 In this comic book world where heroes often get second chances
罪犯们能否被原谅? can the villain ever be forgiven?
很难想象有人用很多年 It's a lot harder to figure out how somebody who spent years
肆意掠夺, 杀人 taking what they wanted, killing people
无论犯下了什么罪行, 都在一瞬间发生了转变 whatever set of misdeeds will suddenly turn around
找到了上帝并从此遵奉道德准则 and find God and become moral the rest of their lives.
这能发生吗? Does it happen?
这在现实生活中可能发生, 但背后一定有很曲折的故事 Probably does in reality, but it's a real tough story to tell.
黑亚当是一个很有意思的角色. 在古埃及时代 Black Adam is an interesting character. He was chosen by the wizard Shazam
他被沙赞巫师选中并得到了超能力 given powers back in the ancient Egyptian days.
他之前是坎达格的一位奴隶 He was a slave in Kahndaq.
他使用这些能力, 成为了黑亚当勇士, 他是一位英雄 He took these powers, became Black Adam, the champion, and he was a hero.
但是渐渐地, 他因那能力而堕落 And over time, he was corrupted by that power.
他回到了坎达格并说, 我现在统治着坎达格, 你们都自由了, 有我在呢 He went back to Kahndaq and he said, I'm leading Kahndaq now, you are free.
后来他爱上了一个人. 伊希斯出生了 I'm here." And then he found someone he fell in love with. Isis was born
然后伊希斯的弟弟欧西里斯也出生了. 我们基本创造了一个黑亚当家庭 and then Isis' brother Osiris. Like, we kind of created a Black Adam family.
后来这个家庭被撕碎, 他的家人们都被杀了 And then that family was torn apart and they were killed.
伊希斯生前宣讲和平, 她是黑亚当内心的信念 And Isis, who had been such a great presence for Adam, who had preached peace.
她躺在他的怀抱中奄奄一息, 留下了遗言, "替我们复仇" As she's dying in his arms, the last words she says is, "Avenge us."
这使得黑亚当丧失了理智 And that sends Black Adam off.
他因满腹怒火而杀死了整个国家的人 And he kills an entire country out of rage.
很明显, 事到如今, 已难救赎 And, obviously, hard to redeem somebody after that.
他相信自己在做正确的事情 He believes in doing the right thing.
但是他的做法十分野蛮恐怖 He just goes about it in such a barbaric and awful way.
围绕一个受人厌恶的角色写了一个故事 Pete Tomasi wrote a fantastic story wrapped around a character everybody should hate.
并使得他-- 成为了英雄 And made him-- You know, made him a hero
但是在此之前-- 他是一个很邪恶的罪犯 in a very-- You know, from a very villainous past.
作为一个作者, 你会很奇怪地说: It's a weird spot to be in when you're a writer, when you have to say:
"我犯下了种族灭绝的罪过, 但是我必须让这个角色变得易于讲述" "I committed genocide, but I have to make this character relatable
让人们以奇怪的方式明白他的来历 and in a weird way have people understand where he was coming from at that point."
所以当你描述一个比黑亚当更有深度的角色时 So it's a tough line to walk when you're a writer writing a character
你会发现这很难 who's as three-dimensional as Black Adam
因为他的确是一位有深度的角色 because he really is one of those great three-dimensional characters
你完全可以理解他这么做的原因 that you could horribly understand why he does something.
当你努力把罪犯变为英雄 With villains, though, when you try and turn them into heroes
他们就会失去 他们独有的东西 they can lose their What makes them special.
所以一名罪犯能更好地当一名英雄这种情节是很少发生的 So it's a very rare case where a villain is better as a hero.
大多数时候读者们等不及他们再次成为罪犯 Most of the time most readers just can't wait for them to be villainous again.
在我们创作《黑暗骑士归来》时 When we worked on Dark Knight Returns
有一位名叫沃尔帕的医生 where we have Doctor Wolper
他尝试着救回小丑并努力与他合作 trying to bring the Joker back and trying to work with him
沃尔帕医生也以自我为中心 and now Doctor Wolper also has an enormous ego.
小丑和沃尔帕医生都以自我为中心 And so you've got Joker's ego, Wolper's ego.
这并没造成好的结果. 对沃尔帕来说没有好结果 It doesn't work out well. It doesn't work out well for Wolper.
但是小丑当然想的是: But the Joker absolutely was all about:
"我已经接受改造了. 我回来了. 我已经意识到了自己的错误" "I am rehabilitated. I'm here. I've seen the error of my ways."
他正以此为由, 从阿克汉姆逃了出来 And he really just used that as a matter to get himself out of Arkham
因此他可以犯下滔天大罪 so he could commit tremendous crimes.
我觉得有些罪行可以被补偿, 但我觉得你会做的是 I think some of them can be redeemed, but I think what you gotta do
拿着救赎感在他们面前挥来挥去并将其撕毁 is you gotta dangle the sense of redemption in front of them then rip it away.
最终你展现出为什么他们最初就是罪犯 Ultimately, you show why they were a villain in the first place.
随着社会的进步, 罪犯们也在进化 As society continues to evolve, so too do our villains.
在2011年9月 In September of 2011
DC公司重启了全部漫画系列 DC relaunched its entire line of comics
并起名为新52 dubbed The New 52.
两年前, 我们重启了DC宇宙 Two years ago, relaunched the DC universe.
我们称它为新52, 其实这是对宇宙的轻微重启 We called that The New 52 and it was basically a soft reset of the universe
我们在这个宇宙里修复了一些我们觉得不合适的东西 where we basically fixed the things that we felt weren't working
并保留了合适的东西 and kept going with the things that were.
我们坐下来思考: "我们在DC宇宙中还欠缺什么?" We sat down and thought about: "What do we need more of in the DC universe?"
我们要解决的问题的其中之一就是罪犯 And one of the things that we wanted to address was the villains.
在2013年, 恶行意味着什么呢? 什么是邪恶的真谛呢? What is villainy to us in 2013? What is real evil in 2013?
这是不是很恐怖? 有时如果你过于接近了真相 It's horrendous, right? And sometimes if you get too close to the reality of it
他把你带出了漫画世界 it takes you out of the comic book.
所以把超级罪犯们作为一种隐喻 So using super villains as metaphors for whatever that is
他们粗暴的攻击, 也变得更加黑暗了. 显然更加黑暗了. 而且变得更恐怖了 and for the brutal attacks that they do, it's gotten darker. It's darker. And it's scarier.
很多攻击出其不意而且是出于个人目的 And the attacks come without notice sometimes and they're personal.
我觉得那是因为我们生活在一个有点 可怕的时代 I think that's because we live in a very, sort of, fearful time.
自从911事件以来, 整个世界出于紧张不安中 Ever since 9/11, the world's been on edge
没有人知道灾难何时会袭来 and no one knows when the next shoe is gonna drop.
下一次会是海啸吗? 或者是经济危机? Is it gonna be a tsunami? Is it gonna be economic collapse?
罪犯可以将那些不可预料的事情实体化 Villains that sort of embody that sense of unpredictability
毁灭日随时随地都会到来 that sense of, you know, doom can come in any form and at any time.
我觉得这与人们内心深处的恐惧进行了沟通 I think that speaks to everyone's sort of hidden fears.
不同角色逐渐代表着混沌与秩序而非正义与邪恶 Instead of characters of good and evil, it became about characters of order and chaos.
逐渐变得混沌 It became about anarchy.
我们是努力反映真实世界的艺术家 We are artists and we're trying to reflect what's going on in the world.
这正是艺术的表现形式. 它是一面镜子 That's what all art does. It's a mirror.
虽然DC的罪犯阵容已经十分庞大 While DC's rogues' gallery of villains is already enormous
但是仍然有提升邪恶的空间 there's always room for a little more evil.
随着新52的到来, DC宇宙的英雄们 With the advent of The New 52, the heroes of the DC universe
将面对新的威胁与敌人 must face new threats and adversaries.
对于如何将漫画进行下去, 我有一个奇怪的看法 I have a strange belief about the way one proceeds with comics
用老的角色来引入新的角色 is to using old characters and introducing new characters.
我的看法是如果你想使用几个老角色 My belief is if you're gonna use one or two old characters
你就需要引入新的角色 you have to introduce a new one.
我觉得我们不应满足于骑着同一匹马 I don't think we should ever be so content to keep riding on the same horse.
如果这个英雄需要存活16, 20, 30年 If the hero has to survive for 16, 20, 30 years
你就得知道这个角色所有不同的方面 you wanna know all the different aspects of that character
罪犯们会让他们面对自身的某些地方 and the villain will make them face certain parts about themselves
如果只是他们自己 that on their own
他们就不会考虑也不会出现在故事线中出现 they may not even think about or can come up in a storyline.
罪犯会发现它, 因为他们一直在尝试发现新的东西 A villain will find that, because they're always trying to find something new
来与英雄做对 to use against the hero
这使你更深入地探索英雄 which makes you explore your hero even more.
所有罪犯的目的都是挑战我们的英雄对吧? The goal of any villain is to challenge our hero, right?
其实也不是挑战而是想方设法把他们带入 Not to challenge them but to take them to the ragged edge
破烂的边缘 of his existence in every way.
我们的想法是尝试想出角色所惧怕的东西 The idea is to try and think about what the character is most afraid of
在英雄一生中的特殊时期 at that particular moment in his or her life, the hero
然后在这个时期创造出一个罪犯 then create a villain that comes right at that thing.
在《猫头鹰法庭》中, 故事讲的是 So for "Court of Owls," that story was really about
蝙蝠侠屹立于世界之巅 you know, a moment when Batman was on top of the world.
他在高谭市感到十分自信, 这让我意识到 He felt very confident in Gotham and it made me realize
蝙蝠侠可能自认为自己了解这座城市但是他无法了解这座城市的历史 Batman might think he knows the city but he can't know the history of the city.
他不可能了解这座城市的每一处角落. 如果有一天这座城市来到他面前说: He can't know everything about it. So what if the city itself begins to come at him saying:
"你并非如此了解我."会怎么样? 在猫头鹰法庭里 "You don't know me that well." With the Court of Owls
他们就是那群人, 被以令他惊恐的方式所埋葬在层层累计的城市过往 they're this group buried and layered into the past of the city in ways that are scary to him.
他根本不相信他们真实存在着 He doesn't believe they exist at all.
后来他发现在韦恩大楼里 Then he sees that they actually have nests for their Talons
有他们伸展魔爪的鸟巢, 在倒数第二个场景 inside Wayne buildings and then in the penultimate scene
他发现藏在整个故事背后的人 he realizes that the person behind the story
其实是一个自己声称要成为韦恩的人 is actually someone who claims to be a Wayne himself.
宇宙守护者是来自古代的角色 The Guardians of the Universe were characters that they're ancient beings
他们将自己与情感脱离开来 that divorced themselves from emotion a long time ago.
他们认为情感是很危险的 They thought emotion was dangerous.
他们说法律就应该脱离情感束缚 They say the law is supposed to be devoid of emotion.
首位灯侠是第一个得到戒指的生物 The First Lantern is the being who got the first ring
他目睹了守护者的解散以及情感的脱离 who was there to witness the divorcing of the Guardians and their emotional hearts.
他把那情感的力量用在了自己身上 And he took that emotional power for himself.
他改变了自己 And he had changed who he was
守护者将他封锁起来, 正如对他们对自己情感所做的 and the Guardians locked him away like they did their emotions.
第一位灯侠的隐喻被守护者囚禁的情感 The First Lantern is a metaphor for all the pent up emotion the Guardians have buried.
第一位灯侠现在已经自由 And that First Lantern is now free.
有一次, 第一位灯侠说-- 当他俘获他们时 At one point, the First Lantern says-- As he's got them captured
他已扭转了局面并说, 我现在要改变这个宇宙 he's turned the tables and he says, I'm gonna change this universe now.
但在此之前, 我想让你们重新得到你们的感情 But before I do, I want you to have your emotions back.
我想让你们感受到它 I want you to feel this.
数百万年以来, 守护者 The Guardians, for the first time in billions of years
再一次得到了感情并感到羞耻与恐惧 have their emotions back and they feel shame and fear
对自己的所做所为十分恐惧 and horror about what they've done and what they've become
我很喜欢这部分 which I really enjoyed.
在此之后赛尼斯托便把他们毁灭了 And then that's right before Sinestro wipes them out.
当我在新52中启动海王的故事时 When I got into Aquaman and I was launching Aquaman for The New 52
我的态度是他想在陆地生活 my attitude was he wants to be on land.
于是在第一刊, 他有意做出决定, "我的人生属于陆地" So he made a conscious decision in issue one, "My life is on land here."
我想创造一些东西来把他拖回海洋 And I wanted to have something that was gonna drag him back into the ocean.
所以我们创作了-- 艾凡·瑞思, 我也创造了一个海洋中的种族 So we created-- Ivan Reis and I created this race of sea creatures
海中类人生物, 食人生物 humanoid sea creatures, man-eating creatures
他们十分饥渴而且他们已经吃光了海沟里的所有食物 that were starving and from the trench and they had eaten all their food
他们已经浮出水面 and they were coming up.
他们从海洋中出来并袭击了一个镇子 They come up out of the ocean and attack a town
海王也受到袭击的牵连 and Aquaman gets involved with that attack
他必须回到水中 and has to go back into the water.
但是海王并不知道他们其实来自另一个王国 What Aquaman doesn't know is they're actually another kingdom.
其实他们如同亚特兰蒂斯一样也是海底王国之一 They're actually another underwater kingdom that is one of many, with Atlantis.
虽然DC宇宙在漫画中诞生 Although it was spawned from comics
但是它并不只是局限在漫画和书页中 the DC universe isn't limited to panels and pages.
它已涉及各种媒体形式并且给予了罪犯更宽广的探索空间 It has expanded to include all forms of media and given its villains new worlds to explore.
DC漫画并不只是漫画 DC Comics isn't just comics, you know?
它起源于漫画, 所有角色来源于漫画 It starts in the comics, all the characters come from the comics.
但是后来他们骤然出现在各个地方 But then they explode into everything else.
如果没有这些极其富有特点, 复杂而又多层化的罪犯们 If it wasn't for these amazingly rich and complex and multilayered villains
我们需要用它们来精心编制我们的故事, 引领你贯穿整个故事 that we had to craft our stories around and what is driving you through the story
将蝙蝠侠推向极限 what is pushing Batman, you know, to push his limits
把你带到游戏的结局其实是 to get to the end of the game is ultimately the plan
围绕罪犯所讲的故事 and the storytelling around the villain
在罪犯们尝试打败蝙蝠侠时, 他们之间的相互作用 and the villains' interactions with each other as they all try to take down Batman.
你已经得到过一次机会了, 丧钟, 但你不是这里唯一的杀手 You had your shot, Deathstroke, but you're not the only assassin in town.
我们还有充足的材料以及惊奇而有深度的角色 There is such rich material here and such deep, amazing characters
他们拥有很长的历史并且深受粉丝们爱戴 that have such long history and love from the fans
持续了50, 60, 70年, 我们相互在游戏中讲述宏伟的故事 for 50, 60, 70 years that we wanna tell great stories in our games.
我们并不只是追求游戏手感以及画面效果 We don't want it to just be about the gameplay and cool visuals.
好的故事一定要有血有肉 There's gotta be the meat there of a great story.
对于我来说, 我很高兴看到这点因为它探索了这些角色 To me, it was a lot of fun to see that because it explores the world of these characters
它并不只是每个月给你带来美好的体验 and it doesn't just give you one flavor month in, month out.
在未来, 包括将要发行的《邪恶永恒》 漫画事件 The future, including the upcoming Forever Evil comic event
将继续强调罪犯的重要性以及他们的恶行 will continue to emphasize the villains and their many diabolical deeds.
随着DC公司宣扬罪恶行为, 我们正在策划新52的第一个大事件 As DC celebrates its villainy, we're doing the first New 52 event series.
我正在编稿. 戴维·芬奇正在作画. 这个系列叫做《邪恶永恒》 I'm writing it. David Finch is drawing it. It's called Forever Evil.
背景设定为正义联盟已经毁灭 And the context of this is the Justice League is dead.
罪犯掌管着地球. 英雄被犯罪联盟干掉了 The villains have inherited the earth. They've been killed by the Crime Syndicate.
所以我们设计了一个事件, 它延续到现在而且会在剩下的2013年的时间和2014年不断进展 So we create an event that now carries on throughout the rest of 2013 and 2014
全是罪犯的故事 that's all about the villains.
当我们将目光放在整个人物阵容时, 我们会问: And when we looked at the whole lineup of characters, it really came down to:
为什么这个角色会存在于DC宇宙中? Why does this character exist in the DC universe?
这个角色起着什么作用? What role does this character fill?
我们如何在故事中以及角色发展中展现他们的功能? How do we show that function through story, through character development?
当我们看到罪犯在动画, 电视, 电影, 游戏中 Seeing all the villains manifest themselves in animation
展现自我时 and television and film and videogames from the comic books, that's
这是这些角色自身力量的体现 I mean, that's the true power and testament to the characters themselves.
DC漫画的超级罪犯 The supervillains of DC Comics
拥有着不同的形态, 人格 come in all manners of shapes, sizes, personalities
内心的黑暗, 怪癖 dark recesses and eccentricities.
他们征服世界, 毁灭城市, 恐吓无辜民众 They conquer worlds, eradicate cities and terrorize the innocent
同时与英雄作对 all while fighting the hero.
而正是这种罪犯和英雄间的纽带让两者不可分离 And it's this bond between villain and hero that is inseverable
"牢不可破, 灵魂融合, 感同身受 "unbreakable, a fusion of soul, a sense of feeling
这样的联系深深植根, 坚不可摧 a deeply rooted connection that cannot be extricated.
他们的战争是脑力的较量, 是力量的斗争 Theirs is a war of intellect, of strength
是黑暗的博弈和相互交织命运的争斗, 推动他们不断战斗 of darkness and intertwined fate and destiny to keep doing battle.
他们不能脱离对方而存在 They can't give up on each other.
没有英雄, 也就没有反派 Without the hero, there is no villain.
而没有反派, 也就没有英雄 Without a villain, there can be no hero.
必要的邪恶