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So what do you think makes
the best screenwriter-director

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collaboration?

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Obviously, every
director is different.

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And you've worked with so
many amazing directors.

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And you have to, I'm
sure, turn yourself

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into a pretzel for some of them.

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Well, I think these are
shotgun marriages, as I often

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say.

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You know, you're thrown
into this intense situation.

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And you've just spent all
this time with something.

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And now, somebody-- usually,
most often, the director--

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And now, somebody-- usually,
most often, the director--

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comes in later in the process.

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And now, they have
their own ideas.

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And it can be rejuvenating.

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It can be inspiring to have
somebody see into your world

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and have these ideas
that make it better.

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Ideally, it's one
and one is three

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once the director comes
on so that you hope, like

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with all relationships, that
you both want the same thing.

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And you may disagree about
specifics, tiny specifics.

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If we're talking about
"under her breath" and things

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If we're talking about
"under her breath" and things

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like that, that's fine.

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But if you're talking
about huge character

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issues, and the
direction of the story,

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and the tone in particular--
because a lot of directors

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don't understand the
tone you might have,

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or you might just have
a simple disagreement.

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But if you're all,
if you're in sync,

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I find that I try to,
in every department,

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let the racehorse run,
and see what people

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want to do, and try and
understand what they're

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want to do, and try and
understand what they're

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trying to say, and process it.

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Because you can be defensive.

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But then, you're killing
the conversation.

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You're not enabling
collaboration.

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And I may be
listening to something

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I know I disagree with
or have an issue with,

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but I want to see
where they're going.

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Sometimes I'll be so
instantly annoyed though,

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and I will make the mistake
of jumping on something.

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And when-- you know-- when you
get jumped on, you shut down.

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So now, you're both--

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I'm annoyed.

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They're defensive.

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They're defensive.

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There's no conversation.

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So it's better to
just take it in

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and listen and
try and understand

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where they want to go.

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Yes, full agreement.

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I've worked with a lot
of writer-directors.

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And sometimes it's the best
possible scenario, right?

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It's a real auteur
the way you work.

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And sometimes I find, as
an actor, I find that--

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especially inexperienced
writer-directors--

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is that they tend to
feel like the movie is

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that idea that they
had in their hotel room

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when they were all by
themselves, and especially

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when they were all by
themselves, and especially

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writers who are really
used to sitting in a room

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and typing all by themselves
and laughing hysterically

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at what they've written.

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Movies don't work that way.

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There are 125 people.

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Also, some writers
really get bogged

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down in dialogue and
structure because those

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are the two big components.

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And it's hard for
them to be free enough

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to see that movies aren't
really about what people say.

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They're about behavior,
and about complexity,

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They're about behavior,
and about complexity,

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and about how people do things
that are against their nature

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sometimes.

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It's hard for them-- sometimes
they get very syllogistic,

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and it's hard for them to see
that human behavior doesn't

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always work syllogistically.

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Sometimes people
just do something

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because they're impulsive,
and it's out of their pattern.

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To do all those things and
to convey all those things,

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and what's so difficult
about screenwriting is,

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you only get two senses.

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You get sight and
sound, and that's it.

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And so it's very, very difficult
to convey all of that stuff

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And so it's very, very difficult
to convey all of that stuff

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with just sight and sound.

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And I think what gets
lost in the conversation--

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because I understand a
writer's frustration if they

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don't feel understood.

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Because what they're focusing on
is the specifics of the thing.

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You know, I wanted a blue shirt.

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This is what I think
she should have.

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Instead of, there's
a different kind

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of deeper intention that
they're talking about.

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And the conversation,
what is it-- and there are

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times where changing
the dialogue changes,

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times where changing
the dialogue changes,

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really changes, the intention.

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And there are times for
me, whether I'm just

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writing or writing
and directing,

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where someone will change
it, and it will be better.

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There are times where they'll
change it and it will be worse,

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and that's not OK.

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And there are times
where they'll change it

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and it's just different,
and that's also not OK.

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Because why change
it just to change it?

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Right.

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But that doesn't mean
that I'm not open to change.

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Because an actor may figure
out a way to do it in a way

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I didn't think about.

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And their first instinct might
actually be really interesting.

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And their first instinct might
actually be really interesting.

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Or it might be to do
without the dialogue, which

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is almost always
something worth pursuing.

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So what gets lost in the fight
to control is the idea of,

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what is the intention,
and what is the story?

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And let's keep telling
each other the story

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instead of fighting
over minutiae.

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We'll keep telling
each other the story,

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and see if we both still
see the same story,

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and talk about the characters
and motivation, and you both--

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what's behind everything.

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what's behind everything.

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And I think those conversations,
even if you're at odds

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sometimes, are fruitful.

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Yeah.

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Yeah, even as an actor
working with a script,

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I mean, sometimes something has
resonance for me personally.

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And some things don't.

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So for example, when
I'm given a story--

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In "The Beaver," I
was given a story.

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The writer had kind of
gave me a story about,

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I was trying to convince
my husband of something.

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And I was telling
him about that story.

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Remember when we were
on the Colorado River,

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and our son fell in,
and you fished him out,

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and our son fell in,
and you fished him out,

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and he was sopping wet, and
then the ambulance came?

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There was this whole long story.

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But the story was so--

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required me to think so much.

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And it required the
other characters

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to think so much that it
wasn't emotional to me.

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And I wanted it to not
be about the writing.

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So the story that I
said to the writer,

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I said, I need this
story where I say--

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remember when our son was
born, and he was so small,

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and you picked him up,
and he was so small?

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There was something so not
literary, not intellectual

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There was something so not
literary, not intellectual

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about that kind of resonance
that that had for me.

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And it allowed the audience to
enter into the movie in a way

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where they didn't
have to be thinking.

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They could just be feeling
what the character was playing.

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And sometimes those are my
problems with writer-directors,

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is that it's hard for
me to explain to them

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why words get in the way.

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Anyway--

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They can.

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But that give and take is
a healthy give and take.

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And I don't think people
need to be afraid of it.

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And I don't think people
need to be afraid of it.

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I don't think they need
to be threatened by--

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especially if it comes
from a place of people

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are trying to interpret
what you're doing.

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And because there
are so many people

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that you need, and we don't
all get infinite budgets,

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and we can't do hundreds of
takes and spend as much time

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as we want so we can get
it exactly the way we see,

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it's very hard.

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You want to just,
there's that sweet spot

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where you feel what you
know you need to feel.

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And for me, that
feels good enough,

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not like even a compromise.

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not like even a compromise.

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That feels like it's
actually working.

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I think we both have
the same understanding

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of what's at the heart of
this get not a shorty movie

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that we've created.

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Yeah.

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I mean, I don't feel--

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I think there are specifics
that we may disagree on.

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But how important is it to
the overall what matters?

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And I'll speak up if I think
something will actually

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work against--

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--right.

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--what I think you want to do.

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But this is a job I'm doing
to serve a vision you have.

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It was your idea.

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It was your idea.

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It was your-- so I'm actually
the [INAUDIBLE] here coming

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in and trying to execute
something you have very

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specifically in your
head, which is a slightly

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different thing than
something I've created

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and we've come together on.

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Well, but it's also grown
from my original memory

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that I brought to the table.

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I mean, that's
the beautiful part

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of the process is that it
moves and shapes and evolves.

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And you bring the next
person into the puzzle.

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And we're going to
bring a location scout.

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Then, we're going to bring
the production designer.

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Then, we're going
to bring the DP.

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Everybody brings their
life story to the table.

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Everybody brings their
life story to the table.

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And suddenly, you have
this organic character

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that started with an
idea that you had,

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this big idea that you had,
that has now changed and shaped

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and evolved.

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And I think that's the most
beautiful thing about making

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movies, is not--

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I don't want to make a movie
in my hotel room all by myself.

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I really love the
sharing process

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of watching this
child that we've

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created together grow and
change in ways that I'd never

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anticipated.

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It's really a joyful thing.

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Yeah.

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And I think the line is, there's
a tricky line that you're

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And I think the line is, there's
a tricky line that you're

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walking when you're
working with a director,

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or even with
producers or a studio.

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You're always trying
to improve it.

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And this happens on
the set too, where

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you're trying to
improve a scene,

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but you can improve
it into a failure.

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You see it in the
cutting room too

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where you're cutting and fixing
it, and fixing it, and fixing

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it.

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You've just fixed
it into a mess.

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And so it's tricky
walking that line.

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And so you have to
have a give and take.

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And if your ego is another
factor in all that-- and mine

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And if your ego is another
factor in all that-- and mine

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frequently is.

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I don't want to dismiss--

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sometimes I feel a
kind of ownership,

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and I don't want to compromise
just to be a good boy.

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I've done that too.

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So you're walking
a line between,

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this is what I really
believe, and also trying

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to be available to these other
ideas that might actually

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be great.

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It's all very hard.

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And you can only, it just
takes, it's a constant practice.

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It's like meditation or yoga.

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Yeah, it's a meditation.

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00:09:30,000 --> 00:09:30,703
Yeah, it's a meditation.

251
00:09:30,703 --> 00:09:32,280
You're just always practicing.

252
00:09:32,280 --> 00:09:33,655
You never master it.

253
00:09:33,655 --> 00:09:34,810
It's a meditation.

254
00:09:34,810 --> 00:09:36,351
I think that's a
theme that's come up

255
00:09:36,351 --> 00:09:38,950
a lot, which is this sort
of meditation about balance.

256
00:09:38,950 --> 00:09:41,080
On the one hand, it's structure.

257
00:09:41,080 --> 00:09:42,760
On the other hand, it's freedom.

258
00:09:42,760 --> 00:09:46,870
On the one hand, it's being
sure about what you have

259
00:09:46,870 --> 00:09:47,802
and fighting for it.

260
00:09:47,802 --> 00:09:50,260
And on the other, it's like,
be flexible and give and take.

261
00:09:50,260 --> 00:09:52,690
I mean, it is this just
balance of back and forth.

262
00:09:52,690 --> 00:09:55,540
And I guess that you just
gotta put your tennis shoes on

263
00:09:55,540 --> 00:09:58,994
and just keep doing it enough
to appreciate how that feels

264
00:09:58,994 --> 00:10:00,000
to balance those two things.

265
00:10:00,000 --> 00:10:00,160
to balance those two things.

266
00:10:00,160 --> 00:10:02,350
And accept that
being out of balance

267
00:10:02,350 --> 00:10:05,540
isn't a larger message
that everything's wrong.

268
00:10:05,540 --> 00:10:07,775
It just means that the
conversation continues.

269
00:10:07,775 --> 00:10:09,160
Yeah.

270
00:10:09,160 --> 00:10:09,892
Bye, Scott.

271
00:10:09,892 --> 00:10:10,600
Love you, lady.

272
00:10:10,600 --> 00:10:12,308
Thank you again for
doing this with us.

273
00:10:12,308 --> 00:10:13,040
Love you too.

274
00:10:13,040 --> 00:10:14,590
Bye.