it is my privilege to be here this
evening with Jack Ma one of the great
entrepreneurs of our time of course the
founder of Alibaba and we have so many
things to talk about
over the next half an hour and of course
we also want to try to get to your
questions as well we're going to talk
about Alibaba of course but also China
the Trump world that we all live in
globalization trade and so many
other issues but first of all thank you
my honour this yeah let me
start with this which is to say that you
just spent some time inside Trump Tower
and went to go visit with Donald yeah
our president-elect in the United States
tell us about that meeting that's very
productive meeting much better than I
thought
than I expected what did you expect well
I heard a lot and a watch like everybody
I watch all the news and heard a lot about
him so when I go inside and saw mmm
anything that but he's very sort of
open minded listen what I talk so I
think I am very happy about results
finally when he said he offered said Jack
let me walk you down so I think he's
very happy about the results we had can
I ask how does that meeting like that
happen do you call him does he call you
well how does this take place well
that's that's the question I'm asking
myself because some day I got some
requests from people say Jack do you
want a meeting with President-elect I say
is that true because I'm not ready
for that because I don't know what to
talk about and then few days later I got
another request I got several requests
and then I saw one email with friend
and very sort of specific I
thought about it I think yes maybe I
should go and have a talk and at least I
think President elect Donald trump would
be happy to hear what I want to talk
about so I went and what did
you tell him talk about the small business
talk about agriculture products talk
about the trade between China and the
USA we special focus on Talk telling
about how can we bring this small
business in America sell them to China
to Asia through our network which can
create a lot of jobs for them and you
committed to create what you say is
we're going to 1 million jobs in the
United States yeah over five
years yeah now that's not a million jobs
that Alibaba itself but you're
not hiring a million people no we are
all totally Alibaba employed put
together it's like a forty five thousand
people we cannot hire one million I
cannot imagine I can manage one million
people explain to us how you think about
the us-china relationship given some of
the comments that Donald Trump has made
about China being a manipulate
currency manipulated did that come up there
in your meeting well I think first in
America there's a freedom of speech
All right so he can say whatever he want and
I respect and I understand but of course I
have my views we did not debate about
the china-us a trade or manipulation
we did not debate
actually we agreed
on something small business developed in
the Middle West America helping the
farmers there's small business there to
exporting to China so we all agree but
something that we did not discuss about
the you know the American the job
losing to China and Mexico and this
can I share with you my ideas please yeah
first I think thirty years ago when I
just graduate from universities I
heard America and a wonderful strategy
they outsource the manufactured job
service jobs they outsource the manufacturers
to Mexico and China outsource the service
jobs to Indian there's a book called
the world is flat yeah
and I think this is
perfect strategy and all that the
American said we just want to control
the IP
we just want to technology we just
want a brand leave the low and
the jobs for the world grace strategy
and second is that the American
international companies made millions
millions of dollars from globalization
the top 10 top 100 companies in America
amazing I remember when I graduate from
university I try to buy a beeper the
Motorola beeper cost me $250 my pay at
that time ten dollars a month as a
teacher and cost of making that
beeper is only eight dollars for a chip
so past thirty years IBM Cisco
Microsoft they make a tens of money the
money the profited made a much more than
the four largest banks in China put
together the China mobile phone
China Unicom or whatever you name it
put together still these multinational
companies made more money so the
market cap grow more than 100 times in
past 30 years but where the money go
this is what I would cares because as
business people I always care about the
balance sheet where is the money
coming where the money go past 30 years
the American had 13 wars spending
fourteen point two trillion dollars the
money going there what if they spent a
part of their money on building up the
infrastructure helping the divided colors
the divided colors and blue colors no
matter how strategy good it is you're
supposed to spend money on your own
people right not everybody can pass
Harvard like me we balabala
education right we should spend
money on those people who are not good
at schooling and the other money which I
curious about is that when I was young I
heard America's better ford ford and
Boeing those big manufactured companies
last 10 20 years I heard about is
Silicon Valley and Wall Street the money
go to the Wall Street
what happened year 2008 the financial
crisis wipe it out nineteen point two
trillion dollars US alone
they raped all the white colors and
destroyed thirty four million jobs
globally so what if the money not wall
street what if the money spent on a
Middle East Middle West of the United
States developing the industry there
that could be changed a lot so it's not
the other countries steal jobs from you
guys it is your strategy okay but you do
not distribute the money that the money
and things in a proper way this is what
I and now we are having a backlash and
that backlash is a rebuke of
globalization and so much of the
conversation frankly that we have here
and that backlash is happening in the
United States but I will say President
Xi was here yesterday you had lunch with
him and he was quoting Abraham Lincoln
what did you make of that well I would
say that globalization is a great stuff
it's the US developed countries to teach
us how to do globalization I remember
2002 or one people trying to join
the WTO everybody in China was worried
me I was worried because what if all the
international products come to China
destroy our industry and we have lose a
job so convince the China after
twenty years then you guys tell and say
this is a terrible thing I believe
globalization is good but globalization
needs to be improved
this is Donald Trump presently liked
want to solve it the problems that
globalization I think should be
inclusive globalization in the past
thirty years
the globalization was controlled by
sixty thousand big companies a hundred
years ago globalization was controlled
by several kings and Empress what if
next for thirty years we can support six
million business doing this Cross-border
what if in next thirty years we can
help support 20 million small business
can do business across the board so this
is something which I believe
globalization should be inclusive and do
you think that the words President Xi
will happen in reality which is to say
yeah that China has largely acted on its
own behalf for many many years and now
is effectively we saying that the US needs
to continue acting on to everybody
else's behalf yeah I think you know the
world need some as being it is such a mr.
Xi yesterday said it's a wonderful time
it's the best time or the worst time the
world need a new leadership but the new
leadership is about working together
this is what I understand we do not
necessarily need one specific leader to
teach us what to do what not to do but
the world had to partner together this
is what I think and I think I like as
a Chinese as a business people I like
I feel proud for what President Xi said
yesterday as a business person I want
the world to share the prosperity
together to join the post together as a
Chinese I'm happy about what he
committed yesterday he said you know he
speaks like us take the responsibility
of the second largest economy as the
China's second largest economy he has to
take some responsibility this is the
first time I heard a Chinese leader make
number commitment he said next 10 years
we are going to import eight trillion US dollars
this make me feel
excited because China is transforming
from exporting to importing if there's a
concrete number if we can fulfill it
this going to be huge change to China
and to the world what I think it's easier
today for China to be interested in
globalization because of the benefits
that accrue that can accrue to China
because you're continuing to develop
than it is for countries that are quote
unquote developed
well first the WTO rule is not designed
by China it's not made by China I will
say there's something that I want to
change the WTO is designed a lot
rules designed for big companies in
past years and only big
companies can do it and China definitely
benefit a lot from opening I think China
should learn one thing that we grow in
the past 30 years it's because we open
to the world it will continue to open
not fully not fully American business
that wants to affect we go into business
in China has a very difficult time has
to partner effectively with a company
that's there already this is why I said
China has the problems too the world has
problem and China has definitely a lot
of problems China should open we should
have been more confidence this is what I
feel yesterday I feel the confidence of
mr. XI that he is ready to open more
to the world this is what I
suggest that we should solve the problem
by business community by negotiation
WTO China join WTO for twenty years
or 17 years I do not remeber
but the past years that I think
we as a business we as a country we as
the world we have to review something
right but not because imbalance the
things we stopped it
you've been calling for something called
EWTP yeah what is that this is what I
would talk about is that the WTO was
great but they mainly designed for
developed countries big companies
there's no opportunity for small
business we want to build up Electronic
world trade platform to
support young people small business
thinks through mobile phones internet
they can sell buy across the board and
the other thing is that WTO
is a very interesting organization
when you put the Doha round we put 200
government offices in a one room
ask them to agree on something it's
impossible I can never imagine that they
can agree on something together business
should be designed about business people
so we believe EWTP should be
something that the business people sit
down together agree on something
negotiate on something and get
endorsement from the government we
talked a little bit about Alibaba and
the model itself because I think for
many in the West if you will they don't
necessarily understand it and to the
extent on that I
could try to compare it to Amazon which
I know you think is an unfair comparison
one of the things that's so fascinating
to me is that Amazon and Jeff Bezos have
pursued what might be described as a
very asset heavy business model they're
buying airplanes they want only entire
supply chain from beginning to end and
Alibaba has effectively acted like this
it is very much in terms of the retail
piece of this the opposite you don't
want to own the warehouses you don't
want to own the logistics company how do
you think about that is Jeff Bezos right
or you right and is there is there going
to be a meeting in the middle I hope
both are right and because the world
can never have one model if the world
has only one correct model it was too
boring right we need to have all kinds
of models and the people who do the
model should believe in the model and I
believe what I do right the difference
between Amazon and us Amazon is more
like an empire everything they should
control themselves buy and sell and our
philosophy is that we want to be a
ecosystem our philosophy is to empower
others to sell empower others to
service empower making sure the other
people are more powerful than us making
sure with our technology our innovation
our partners our 10 millions small business
sellers they can compete with Microsoft
IBM our philosophy is that we think
using Internet technology we can make
every company become amazon remember
one thing today for ourselves our GMV last
year is more than 550
billion US dollars too high people
deliver for us we need five million
people so how can we hide five-million
people deliver things for us to deliver
the things we thought the only way we do
is empower the service company no just
companies making sure they are efficient
making sure that they make the money and
making sure that they can hire more
people without owning the whole chain
can you do it as effectively the idea
that you're having watching Amazon being
able to deliver things now within hours literally
we made a hundred twenty five
cities deliver within one day last year
imagine 10 years ago deliver one thing
from Beijing to Hangzhou takes by
the 80 days
now you can deliver things from
from Beijing to in Mongolia some
city within 12 hours it's improving you
can never expect these things happen
within 24 hours we have patients so I
think can you imagine that within
1111 singles day we sold 17 billion
dollars and by
delivering more than 600 million
packages within three days this is
happening and this is what we feel proud
of it's not how much money we make is
not how powerful we are we think because
of the technology we can make the
technology very inclusive that every
small companies can use it this is my
dream because I start my first business
1992 in China as a small business in
order to borrow money
five thousand US dollars from bank took
me three months to acquire still fail so
difficult to be a small business today
with the technology we can empower them
this is something I want to do one of
the critiques as you know and it
continues to linger around Alibaba is
the piracy issue this is a not there's
an IP issue an issue all over China but
it you you take the brunt of a lot of it
now how much progress have you made
in your mind and how do you think about
some of the regulatory bodies and other
countries including the US that continue
to criticize Alibaba for this issues
first when we start do this business as
a business like this size you have to
take all the crazy system you have to
listen what is right what is wrong and
second as ecommerce when you put 10 minutes
small business empower them to sell we
do not like amazon and buy we cannot
even you buy when you buy 550 billion
dollars you cannot check every
products so the model itself and the
e-commerce itself may have a lot of this
false and third I would say in the past
17 years we are the leader of this empty
privacy issues the IP protect IP but
the second we are Internet
companies we do not have the law
enforcement we find this guy is selling
product and cheaper you know fake
products we delete them we cannot arrest
them but we are huge progress last year
alone we put 400 people into juice with
delete a 370 million fake products
listing on our site I want to say we are
the leaders and we are using the big
datas to check who's buying who's
manufacturing who's selling what is there
adress so now I'm happy about the whole
world especially China all the
government organization start to realize
the issues so I would tell you a good
thing is that today when you go to those
criminal group which I call them
criminals those fake products
manufacturers sellers you praise the
quality of some these I would
talk about it later
all right those criminals said that they can go
anywhere but not not taobao or tianmao
because using our data we trace where
they are who they are what is
their adress and I will deliver this to the
Police Station and working with them
the quality issues is something I
want to share with people it's not by
praising the fake products I want to say
that for so many years
those branded companies you have to be
very careful because the fake products
their quality improving is scary
that is the difference between us
because when you find the guys the thing
that people said this is fake and you
have to find people you have found a
third-party institution to check it's
a fake or not we find sometimes the
quality is better and I tell you another
thing is even scary a lot of
there's a one brand company he said we
are selling fake products we check
everything nothing wrong
what is wrong so we buy the product from
his flagship and delivered to them they say this
is a fake you know the thing we buy shop buy
things from the Flag shop of this brand
and deliver back it's the fake products
they say that's a bit confusing this is
fighting against the fake product it's a
wall against the greedy human
greediness it's not easy you cannot
finish it but you have to continue to
fight and I want to say we put two
thousand people 1 billion RMB every
year fighting again bet it can never
finish the war within 2 years but I'm
happy
when people criticize me criticize us
the most important is that we are happy
about the progress we made if people
praise me so you know when people say
jack you're wonderful I know I'm not
wonderful right or alibaba is great
we are not great we're just a 17 year
old company but when people say you're
doing nothing no we're doing a lot of
things but you do not have to argue you do not have
debate you do what you believe one of
the things you mentioned was using big
data on the piracy side but the other
thing that you're using a lot of that
big data to do is provide credit and
effectively banking the unbanked
and what's so fascinating to me and I
hope you'll share it is we talked about
the sesame credit yeah how you are able
to use big data effectively to figure
out who deserves credit and who doesn't
in a marketplace where some of these
people had no credit history before okay
well before we do that we had a system
called teach computers to learn how to
entice fake products teach the computer
to learn how to because we have alipay
a lot of people try to use all the ways to
cheating so we teach the computer how to
do that the cheating things so we've
been doing that for 10 years until now
there's called artificial intelligence
because we're doing that we are a data
company eight years ago we said to
ourselves
Alibaba should not be an e-commerce
company we should be a data company
because we have the data from consumers who have
data from the manufacturer we have datas
from logistic companies and transactions
but we think how we can make a data
really beneficiary to the society what
China needs is that we have a lot of
great people all the small business if
they have a very they're very credible
but the other we don't have a credit
system for that so how can we using a
credit rating system based on the datas
we have put it giving everybody a sesame
a rating system that is so powerful in
the past four years because every
individual every small business if they
have been using our services we give them
rating system so we're giving loans in
the past five years we giving five
million business loans they only bought
borrowed $5,000 three minutes we can
decide whether we should give you money
how much money give within one
second the money will be in your count
and zero people touch so we call it
three one zero and even today the sesame
rating system become people dating the
mother-in-law want to say hey you want
to dating with my daughter show me
your rating system of the sesame cart so
it's so funny we go to the people want
to rent a car people want to rent a
bicycle they will say show me your
sesame carts mmm good because if they do
not have paid back if they do not
fulfill the radiuses are going to low
down and they can never rent a house
right this is what we want to do that
the system that if you sell or buy fake
products the sesame cars will show
we open up to questions but a final one for me
there's been a lot of speculation that
you're going to get into the business of
Hollywood your name has appeared Alibaba
Group at the beginning of a couple of
big films recently
what is the ambition for Alibaba in the
entertainment world
um the beginning were like this several
years we every five years we have a
review for our strategy now our strategy is
always look at the 30 years and 10 years
every strategic decisions we make we
have to ask one question if
this decision we make solve society
problems because we believe the bigger
social problem you solve the more
successful you are so if we do this
cannot solve any social problems we
don't do it second is this project is
going to be successful in 10 years if
it's going to be successful in 10 years
let's do it if it's going to be
successful in one year or one month
normally I say forget about it because
why you can be successful in one year or
one mouth so we all have to put term and
five years ago we had a big debate about
10 years later 20 years what are the
things the China Society the world want
so we say happiness and health 2 H
strategy happiness and health we
believe hollywood you know the movie
industry bring people happy because today
nobody is happy rich people no happy
poor people no happy you know at least
where I watch movie you're happy but
but so I think we should partner with
the Hollywood especially like a lot of
you know we have a different way of
living
in China the movie we have a lot of
heroes but China movie's heroes always dead
the American movie hero never
die if all the heroes die who want to
be the hero so my movie I want to make
the hero live right so this is this
is I think we should learn a lot and
it's all about two years so we have
another eight years to go I want to make
our company that it's not ecommerce it's
something that giving people
inspirations given people because I
learn a lot for example I will say that
my favorite movie Forrest Gump
you know life is tough this is I learned and
that inspired me that is why when people
call me crazy stupid past 17 years
you're crazy you are doing something never
work you're stupid how can do that model
amazon this model eBay this model
wyh aliBaba this model I told myself Forrest Gump
said go ahead never care about
what the other people and the other
thing Forrest Gump said nobody make
money out of the catch whales people
make money by catching shrimps so we
serve small business fair enough
Jack Ma we should probably end it there
it going to run out of time but I
thank you I thank you so much for the
conversation I promise we speak in a
question or two when we literally have
two minutes and they're going to get
upset with me if you have a
question of and we're going to yeah
I got beg you to do it within literally
you know a second to go for it right
there
well I don't think so I think China and
US should never have a trade or will
never have a trade war and I think we
should giving president elect Donald
Trump some time and he's open-minded
he's listening and I think the world is
so easy to launch a war but it's so
difficult almost impossible sometimes to
terminated a war the Iraq war Afghanistan
war is that finished no trade war I
believe one thing when trade stops the
war starts trade is something that
people start to communicate trade is
something people exchange culture and
Value and I will be happy if China USA
agree on something and Alibaba business
business model destroyed I will destroy
Alibaba model by stopping the war
because how can you imagine the
first largest economy of the world
second largest economy of the world have
a trada war it's going to be a disaster
for two countries and for the world if
we can anybody can do something to stop
it do anything to stop it
did you reaction to trump the
situation with Taiwan and how he's
thinking about that well Taiwan I think
this is this is not the something about
government this is not something about
business this is something about people
if the taiwan issue is the population
if you do taiwan issue it like against 1.4
billion people so this is another issue
so we're talking about trade we're not
talking about Taiwan very politic let's
take one final question if we can I
think we can still one we're in yes
there right there
I'm not politicion
how do you assure you are
not messing up these people's life and
you are not dictating the whole you know
credit Kingdom over the system because
now you are the decision-makers you are
the rule makers okay first I'm not sure
people say Oh this is uncertain
world everyday is uncertain the only
certain day was yesterday
I'm not sure about that in the future
I would dictate I would be stupid
that's why I should retire early when
I'm young
that is why I have a lot of things that
to dream I want to do I want to philanthropic
I want to be a teacher I want to
go back to school I want to do the
environment and the world is so
wonderful why you should be the CEO
for Alibaba all the time I'm coming to this
world not to work I want to come to this world
to enjoy my life I don't want to
die my office I want to die on the
beaches it's a wonderful message Jack Ma
thank you for the Conversation well can I say one last please
I just want to give my last advice to any people
here that every government should pay
attention to in the next 30 years a
critical for the world every
technical revolution takes by
50 years the first 20 years technology
company next 30 years the application
of the technology focus on next 30
years the first 20 years eBay Amazon
Facebook Alibaba Google good the most
important is that make the technology
inclusive make the world change this 30
years next pay attention to those people
who are 30 years old because those are
the international generation internet
generation they will change the world
they are the builder of the world third
let's pay attention to the company
who have fewer that 30
employees so 30 years and 30 years old
and 30 employees that would can make the
world much better Jack Ma thank you very
very much thank you thank you thank you
[Applause]