- Coming up next is the badge talk.
This is always one of my favorite talks, every DEFCON,
and we're running a little bit late,
so I'll just get right to it.
So coming up to the stage, we've got DT and MK Factor,
which is Michael and Katie.
(audience applauding)
- Okay, I can't get you from up here.
So I'll take my mask off, you're safe.
Hey, welcome to DEFCON 30.
(audience applauding)
As you can imagine, it has been a very tumultuous,
crazy, crazy pants year,
and we are all super duper excited to actually be here.
And (chuckles) when I started seeing everybody around,
it's like this huge sense of relief
and I'm not gonna lie,
after I'm done with this talk,
I don't care if the place burns down.
(audience laughing)
It's like, (chuckles) I got it.
We got it done, we got it here.
It doesn't matter if it only last for a couple hours,
but wooh!
So normally what we do in this talk
is I welcome everybody.
Welcome everyone.
Just to give you a quick overview of some of the challenges
of organizing the CON.
And then we go right into
the challenges of actually creating the badge.
What I hope most of you are wearing,
with the badge designers, MK Factor.
And yeah, this year you've got some pretty good stories.
One that was the most impressive was a sort of
I'm living in Singapore, they're in Utah,
and the time zone's terrible difference.
And it's for me it's the morning
and they're in the middle of the night
and they're like,
we found this one chip
and we need to order the chip right now.
And yeah, people were ...
Anyway, good stories coming up.
Stay tuned.
So what we try to do with the badge
is we try to make it interactive,
we try to make it collaborative,
we try to force you with mind control,
to use it to socially interact with others around you.
One more way for you to make
an unexpected connection with a fellow hacker.
And originally all the badges were simple,
paper, plastic, metal.
And we always put a lot of time in trying to make them
more counterfeit resistant
because after a few years people started copying them.
And because we don't take corporate sponsorship,
the only way we make money
is through selling badges and t-shirts.
And if that gets undermined,
we don't have any other resources,
any other revenue to fall back on.
So it turned into this cat and mouse game
where the people counterfeiting
would get better and better
and we'd get better and better.
And then finally, they got so good,
it's like I don't mind
if you can really counterfeit it at that level,
'cause there's only three of you that can.
And why don't you give talks
and tell us how you did it?
'Cause it was really,
I mean they were melting records in ovens
and smudging things to get a reflection.
And I mean, they were doing some really cool stuff.
So every once in a while you'll see a display
or you'll see a contest, a badge counterfeiting contest.
And then at some point we realized that we shouldn't put all
of our energy into the anti-counterfeiting,
and we started to, Joe Grand,
I was talking to Joe years ago
and we were lamenting that
if the end of the world was coming,
if Skynet was gonna wake up,
we need an army of hackers to do battle against Skynet,
except everybody is doing software,
nobody can hack the hardware of Skynet.
And Joe was one of the only hardware hackers
I knew at the time.
And so we needed to build an army, right?
To defend the world against Skynet.
So how do we get hackers more interested in hardware?
And we created, he designed,
We did the first electronic badge
for hacking conference at DEFCON.
And it was super, super simple by today's standards.
But every year it got more complicated and better,
and with new tricks.
And back then a lot of things were happening.
It was aluminum PCB,
it was persistence of vision LEDs,
it was infrared communication,
it was ...
and it just took off.
And now badge life, everybody,
I think we helped accelerate
the skill set to defend against Skynet.
So thank you, DEFCON attendees for jumping on board.
And now the badges are so complicated out there
that other people are creating.
Honestly, it's too costly to really compete
with some of them.
And we can't do $100 badge.
We have some limitations.
And so it becomes more important
for us on how to interact
the ideas behind them
and maybe not the super duper build.
So it's been really fun.
It's like launching something into the world
and now it's outgrown us a little bit.
And so now we're just trying to help inspire
and get more people involved.
It's not supposed to be counterfeit proof.
It's not supposed to be unhackable,
it's intentionally hackable.
So that's the idea with the badges.
And normally we alternate between a paper badge,
meaning a physical, non electronic badge
and electronic badge.
And even years are normally physical
and odd years are normally electronic,
and that's to help save us some money
because they're so expensive to do.
But how can you not have an electronic badge for DEFCON 30?
You gotta have one.
So we had an electronic badge last year,
we had an electronic badge this year.
We haven't figured out what we're doing next year yet.
Maybe you can do a mechanical computing badge, right?
Like an old Curta calculator
or slide rule badge.
Don't test me,
you might be wearing one next year.
(DT laughing)
All right, so with that said,
I would like to introduce the badge team
that was responsible for this wonderful experience.
And later on, we have other interactive,
(indistinct) has created some interactive
badge stations you'll see around
where you can plug in your badge,
you can go head to head in the chill out rooms,
battling each other.
There's some contests.
So there's some installation art stuff
you can do with your badges too.
We want it to be fun.
Okay, with that, I'd like to introduce the M and the K.
(audience applauding)
While he is fiddling around
maybe just tell 'em some stories about the
background of the, or the idea or.
- Yeah, so I guess we can talk about some of the
ideas behind the badge.
You wanna tell the story?
- Sure.
- Yeah.
- So last year I was talking to someone
and he is like, wouldn't it be cool to have a musical badge?
And I was like, yeah, that would,
I would really love that idea.
And so we sat on it and we thought about it.
We also love the show, Bob's Burgers
and Jean has a sampling keyboard,
which, woo!
(audience applauding)
Thank you.
- So Jean has a sampling keyboard,
which we'll see in a second
that he loves to make sounds with.
And we're like, what's the better way to
capture the sounds of DEFCON with the sampling keyboard?
- Yeah.
All right.
First thing we wanna do is thank all the people that came
and helped us assemble these badges
and helped us create 'em
and oh my gosh. - Supported us.
- So many people that helped.
It was amazing.
We have really great friends and family
and the community is just amazing.
Thank you everyone.
- Yeah, thank you so much.
And we would not have made it without you.
- All right, so let's talk about the
problem with the badges.
I'm sure some of you have run into this and I apologize.
So there is a terrible, terrible,
stupid design flaw in the badge.
I take full responsibility for that.
So the problem is this little bitty chip
that's under the little cover board
and that's the audio amplifier.
And what happens is that amplifier
is designed to power a speaker.
And it does that really, really well.
What it's not designed to do
is be connected to an audio output.
And well, I want to make excuses and whatnot,
and there are excuses, right?
We had to change this last minute
and supply chain being what it was,
we could only get certain things
and fit it in budget and everything.
And I did not check that if this was going to be a problem.
And so it became a problem
and that's the chip that burns out.
This is what's under that chip.
It is a nine pin BGA flip chip.
It's pretty much microscopic.
It's like one and a half millimeters square.
It's ridiculous.
So if you have hurt your badge,
the HHV does have some spare chips.
If your board is not too badly damaged,
they would be happy to help you fix your badge.
Don't bring 'em and say, "Fix my badge."
That's not gonna happen. (chuckles)
So be willing to learn and help do that.
The other thing we found out when we got here
is the lanyards can cause problems.
And we did not know this
because we didn't have the lanyards.
We didn't see 'em until they got here a few days ago.
- And we didn't think they were that close to the hole
or they would be big enough or.
- Yeah, and that ... - The blindside.
- Yeah, that lanyard connector is the perfect size
to wrap around that connector and just sort it out.
- [Katie] Sort it out.
- [Michael] So, tape over that if you can,
we've got tape if you find us.
Yeah. - Yeah.
- [Michael] So with that out of the way, (chuckles)
this is our original concept design.
- So this is one of them.
So we went through several different ideas.
We originally, it was gonna be super simple, right?
'Cause that's how you first start your badge.
And then you're like, wait, I need this and now I need this.
But honestly it was literally gonna be four buttons
and a screen, and then your keyboard.
That didn't happen.
But that's ... we had hopes. (laughs)
So yeah.
- So go ahead.
- Like we said, Jean, he has a sampling keyboard.
And so we were really excited when he's like,
we should buy these and play with them and see how they work
and see if this is really our idea we want.
And so here's our kids, they're like,
"This is the coolest thing!"
And so we all turned into five
and just pounding on these keyboards
and having a great time
in making sounds and things like that.
- And we do have this keyboard with us.
So if you wanna play with a real sampling keyboard
that works really nicely (chuckles)
come find us in the contest area.
All right, so artwork.
Last year, the theme with the kind of '80s vibe
and everything.
Everything was hard lines and very geometrical.
This year, Katie got to run wild with the artwork
and it's amazing.
- Thank you.
Yeah, I had a lot of fun.
It was kind of cool to just take stuff
from different things.
I don't know else to say, but you've, enjoy. (chuckles)
- It's awesome.
- Thank you. (laughing)
(audience applauding)
- All right, stock supply chain
because it's a problem again,
and will be forever and ever and ever.
So this is one of the stories that
DT had started talking about.
When was that, February?
- Yeah.
- We reached out to him.
We were like, "Oh my gosh, we found a chip,
that's in stock that's not $10.
We need to buy these now." (chuckles)
And so yeah, we bought a crazy number of these chips.
It was a really weird circumstance.
So Raspberry Pi has on their site
links to all the different distributors that have this chip.
And one of them was Digi-Key, right?
And all these things were sold out everywhere.
And I happened to be searching on Digi-Key one night
and came across this chip,
and they had like 50,000 of them in stock.
But the link on Raspberry Pi's website
hadn't been updated yet to the new link on Digi-Key.
So I was like, this is our moment,
we've got (chuckles) chips.
(audience laughing)
- Before anyone else sees this weird thing,
we need to just take these.
- Yeah. - These will be ours.
- Yeah, so yeah, we contacted DT
and bought those really quickly
and to our great surprise Digi-Key actually shipped them.
- Well, yeah, I think I kept asking like,
okay, did they go in the shopping basket?
Yeah, yeah, they ...
Okay, did it check out?
Did it charge the credit card?
Okay, yeah, we've got them, okay.
And then you said on eBay people were marking these things
up 10 times, right?
People would swoop in, see that a chip was in low supply,
buy them all, mark it up 10 times on eBay.
And so I think as several times they contact me like,
"We found the chip."
Oh no, they're all gone.
- Yeah.
- Okay, we have to redesign the whole badge now.
Okay, we got another chip.
Oh no, they're all gone.
Okay, now we have to redesign the badge,
it was like, oh my God.
- Yeah, so when we saw this, we're like,
"We want it, can we have it? (chuckles)
Please let us have this."
'Cause all the other ones were smaller
and they were like eight bucks a chip.
And you would've had a board and a chip.
- Yeah, and this also did pose some problems
because if any of you have messed with the RP2040,
it doesn't have any audio stuff, any DSP stuff,
it doesn't have floating point stuff.
So it was a bit of a challenge programming wise.
All the audio on your badge is all in software, (chuckles)
which it's a good thing that chip is fast,
but even so it's still eight bit audio.
So that was a compromise, but it works.
So custom parts.
The screen, I don't know if any of you
have played with those little OLED screens.
Normally they've got a big, long flexible connector,
and it's to wrap around the back of a board
and be soldered there.
That didn't work for us
because everything needed to be
on the front side of the board.
And no one made that screen with a short enough cable on it,
and one that goes into connector rather than soldered,
'cause we were not soldering that many (chuckles) screens.
And so we contacted the supplier
and got those screens custom made
with a very short little flexible cable on 'em.
So they're custom.
You can't get your own all you can.
They're (laughs) fancy.
So yeah, that's one of the cool things
you can do when you're ordering
many crazy numbers of things.
You can get customed stuff.
- Kind of fun.
- So then parts started arriving at our house. (chuckles)
- We don't have a big house.
(Michael and Katie both laughing)
It was everywhere.
- Yeah, so these bins hold 4,000 audio cables.
There were many more of these offscreen, yeah. (chuckles)
- And they were heavy. (laughs)
- DT, are we allowed to say how many we made?
- Yeah, I think so.
- Okay, so 25,000 is the number of badges we made.
So there were many of these buckets.
(audience applauding)
Yeah, two pallets of boxes just to hold them all. (chuckles)
So batteries, yeah, 25,000 badges.
So 75,000 triple A's were delivered to our house.
(Michael and audience laughing)
- [Katie] The poor Amazon man,
he's constantly, what are these?
(audience laughing)
He's like loading these giant things.
They're small boxes, but they were packed a punch.
- [Michael] Yeah, so one of the things that happened is
we got the battery holders and the batteries.
We ordered all the stuff for the badges
all at the same time.
And so a lot of the parts,
and the circuit boards and everything,
those go to an assembly house,
and then batteries and battery holders came to us.
And so we had some time.
So we pre-filled the two batteries
on every single one of those battery holders.
And this picture on the right,
I don't know if any of you notice that's not right.
(audience laughing)
So when you order this many of something,
you start finding the weird ones.
So about one in every 1000 battery holders
was malformed or put together backwards. (chuckles)
So weird, crazy stuff you find.
- [Katie] I don't think our kids
will ever wanna see a battery again.
(audience laughing)
- [Michael] Yeah.
- So they had a blast opening the batteries.
I walk in the kitchen and they're like, we made a pyramid.
(Katie and audience laughing)
- So, yeah, for reference, each of those boxes
is 50 batteries.
That's 8,500 batteries.
So just over 10%. (laughs)
- They were everywhere.
- Yeah, and we made some custom tools.
So those battery holders have inch long pins
sticking out of them.
And we were not gonna cut 50,000 pins by hand.
It's not gonna happen.
So I bought some metal shears at Harbor Freight
and 3D printed a little jig for it.
And so we could just slide 'em through
and cut all the leads off the battery packs.
That was fun.
- Yeah, it was way fun.
There was metal everywhere, it's fine.
(Michael and Katie laughing)
- And jigs.
So we designed and custom printed
little jigs to bend the top boards enough
to get 'em into the badges without having to
manually bend each one over.
- [Katie] I don't know if any of you
tried to do that with your hands. (laughs)
- [Michael] Yeah, it's not fun.
- I physically can't.
And so I was like,
we need something 'cause I cannot do this 25,000 times.
(laughs)
So he's amazing and did that for us.
- And if any of you need help with that,
I've got some of these jigs on me
so I can help you put a top board back on
or flip it over if you want.
- Yep.
- Assembly, PCBx is amazing.
They did all the assembly on these boards.
They're based out of Ohio
and they are awesome.
This is what they dealt with. (chuckles)
This is what got delivered to them,
bare circuit boards.
It's like 1800 pounds of circuit boards.
It's ridiculous. (laughs)
And so yeah, they assembled all these,
put 'em in antistatic bags,
shipped them to us.
- Okay, so once we got to assembly,
we had to take 'em all out of their static bags,
all 25,000 of them.
And then we,
as you can tell,
the Jeff says, we're awesome.
They taught us how to do it faster.
So we had them everywhere
and we were constantly unloading boxes
and we had static bags everywhere.
So our next part of assembly, we had to do soldering.
We soldered all of those battery packs
back on onto the backs of these.
So we did 50,000 solder joints.
It was great, it was fun.
Our kids got really good at soldering.
(audience applauding)
- And of course our good friends, Troy and Burley,
they graciously offered their house as well for assembly.
So they did 1000s and 1000s of them at their house
as well and had 'em everywhere.
- Yeah, and both houses looked very similar.
(Michael and Katie laughing)
Boxes everywhere and badges everywhere.
- Yeah, so many badges.
That's a couple 100 on that table.
25,000 is a ridiculous number.
- Yeah, I think that's only 300 on that table.
They were bigger than we were expecting.
So our top boards for the (indistinct)
came as panels and we had to break 'em all apart.
So this is me and my mom sitting there breaking.
We also have, (chuckles)
they did it at their house as well.
- Yep
- There was breaking everywhere.
I did not see this picture till today that they used pliers.
(laughs)
I was jealous.
We used our hands.
(laughs)
But yeah, that was a fun,
there was fiberglass everywhere.
- So yeah, one of our kids breaking more boards,
heat sealing and putting little cuts in every bag
so you guys could rip 'em apart, rip 'em open easily.
Yeah, it's just ridiculous. (laughs)
So these are just some of the people that came to help.
There were friends, family, community.
We had just so many people.
- [Katie] Like for three, four weeks.
Yeah. - Yeah.
Four weeks of assembly.
It was (chuckles) ridiculous.
- [Katie] I don't think I wanna go in my shop
for the next month and I'd be happy.
(Michael laughing)
- [Michael] Yeah, they had smiles till the endish.
- [Katie] Ish.
- [Michael] Well, we said smile for the picture. (laughs)
- So when we got to the den, we're like, oh!
That's a lot of badges.
That's more badges than we thought.
And we're like, we're gonna need 100 boxes.
We don't have a car that can do that.
(Michael laughing)
- Yeah, so each box of 250 is about 60 pounds.
So we loaded about 6,000 pounds worth of boxes
in this U-Haul (chuckles)
and dragged it down here.
- It was great.
- So for those of you who saw this picture on Twitter,
I loved the guesses.
You were all way wrong. (laughs)
- But it was fun.
- We had lots of guesses around 13, 14,000.
We had a 30,000 guests,
but yeah, 25,000.
And badge challenge.
I hope a bunch of you have started playing that
and having fun.
Today, you can actually do more with it
because contest is open.
So these lovely ladies this morning,
we went to set up our challenge table in the contest area
and our boxes of stuff were gone.
They were not where they were supposed to be.
Someone took them to the hardware hacking village
in the Flamingo.
I don't know why. (chuckles)
- It's okay, it happens.
- And so these lovely ladies ran and got them
and brought them back to us here. (laughs)
- It was fun, it was good.
We got our cardio in,
and a lot of sweating. (laughs)
- So huge thank you to redacted
who helped with the badge challenge
and all the hardware set up for that.
It's awesome.
Please go play with it and have fun.
On the badge challenge, don't make real phone calls, right?
There are special phones for you to use.
Don't call people and make 'em mad. (laughs)
Yeah, I'm sure people have been called.
(Katie laughing)
But don't do that anymore. (laughs)
- Those poor inspecting people, okay.
- So that's what we got.
(audience applauding)
So if there's any questions,
I think someone's gonna run around with a mic,
if you have questions for us.
- Okay, we got a question in the front
and then another question will be in the front to start off
and then we'll work our way back.
- Run.
- It's this person here.
- Thank you.
Amazing badge.
But fortunately mine got fried in the first 10 seconds.
So I guess my question is it's the same hardware, right?
All the badges or did I understood that wrong?
The badges are different some of them.
Is there-
- The hardware is all the same.
- Some of them are still working and mine is not.
- Sorry, you're talking about
between the different badge types?
- Yeah, the hardware, like the chips that are being used.
- Are they all the same hardware
or they're different hardware specs
for different types of badges?
- They're all the same hardware.
- Okay, and why are some of them are being fried the chips
and some of them are still working?
- It's the shorting out from either the lanyard
or if you've created a loop of any sort.
- Got it, all right, thank you.
- Yeah, thanks for asking a question.
- All right, who's next?
- [Attendee] So thanks for badges.
They've been great,
loved the musical tones.
And obviously making these there's a lot of repetition,
but what would you say was most dreadful part of repetition?
Which part of this did you not ever wanna do or see again?
- I know this one.
It's the ... I'm not going to curse.
It's the speakers. (laughs)
'Cause when the speakers are loose in there, right?
We couldn't find one that could go through a reflow oven
to do what we wanted to do.
And so that's why we made it
the cute little thing that goes over it.
The speakers, once you put that on there,
when you pop that thing off,
it creates a lot of force.
And so sometimes it will jolt it
and then you have to pop it into place.
Also, I think about a third of our speakers,
all their leads were bent the wrong way.
So we had to go and bend them back
so that they would touch where they're supposed to touch.
So those damn speakers!
(Michael laughing)
That's the part. (chuckles)
- Yep.
- [Attendee] Again, thank you very much for the badges.
They're awesome.
Do you have a good source for the six pin SAO headers
here at the CON?
down at the hardware hacking village
we have four pin headers,
but no six pins handy.
- So we have some.
Don't mob us,
but we have some available.
I think HHV has a small selection of them
and a lot of SAO designers provided them with their SAOs.
- [Attendee] Okay.
- Thank you.
- [DEFCON Staff] Great, any other questions?
There you go.
- He's gonna get his steps in.
- [Attendee] So you mentioned as you were starting the story
before the slides came up,
you mentioned that you had heard,
yeah wouldn't a musical badge be interesting.
So was it just,
I mean, why did you choose the keyboard
because of the show that made it exciting to you,
or was there something about the music that really
drew you into it differently?
Why are we doing it with the keyboard
versus any of the other types of music options you had?
- So coming to the design choice.
So we had several different ideas.
We thought guitar hero thing,
where everyone had a different instrument.
It posed a building,
making it harder for us to have custom things,
to help us put the badges together.
But generally we landed on the keyboard.
I felt like it was more relatable for everyone.
Everyone's touched keys on a keyboard before.
Do you know what I mean?
And so I think more people are willing to,
I don't know. I think that's where it was.
- I think it was sampling.
The sampling nature of that.
- The sampling was a really big part of it.
So the people could record their own sounds and play on
and add their own sounds to DEFCON.
- [Attendee] I've seen a couple that have a different color.
Is there any significance to the color of the badge?
- Sorry, say that again.
- You gonna say that again,
sorry, we couldn't hear you.
- [Attendee] Is there any significance to the color
of the badge?
- The color of the badge?
Like the different types?
- [Attendee] Yes.
- Yeah, so all the different colors
are for different groups of people.
So other than the white and black ones,
like red is for goon,
there's some for all the different people that help
run the conference basically.
- So you got your speaker, you got CFP, you have press,
you have contest village.
- Vendor.
So there's nine different colors.
(indistinct)
Does that answer your question?
- And they all have something different on them.
I hope that answers it.
- [Attendee] Hey, so this is my first DEFCON.
I just wanted to say for me personally, I love the keyboard.
You couldn't have picked a better theme badge
for me personally.
And I just wanted to say thank you for all the effort.
That's an incredible amount of effort.
- Thank you. - Thank you.
(audience applauding)
- We got one to your right.
- There's so many noises.
- Or further right,
but okay. (chuckles)
- [Attendee] So a two part question.
First of all,
is it possible to reset the challenge to factory state?
I know when you pulled a battery and then put it back in
and started up it resumes where you were in the challenge.
And secondly, do you think it's theoretically possible to,
does the chip have any more capacity
to maybe do a more advanced synth or anything like that?
- Okay, so yeah.
So to reset it from Raspberry Pi,
you have two file called flash nuke,
dump that on there and then we'll need to ...
Did we release the firmware?
- Not yet.
- I don't think we have.
We will throw the firmware up on the badge website.
So then you can reflash
and that'll put you back to the beginning.
For the other one,
there is tons of flash space left.
There's not a whole lot of extra processing power available,
mainly due to my terrible code. (chuckles)
I don't know if any of have noticed,
if you press four more keys at once
it hangs there and the screen doesn't update for a second.
So yeah, we're right at the limit of what
it can do with my terrible coding skills.
- I think your coding (indistinct)
- [Attendee] I was up till two in the morning
decompiling assembly code.
So thank you for that.
So I've called all my friends,
but can you actually call Jenny?
- I mean, yeah. (laughs)
Okay, I can't give too much away,
but maybe there's a whole area of contests
in the venue here.
- Just don't use a real phone.
- Yeah, no real phones.
Don't use your cell phones for it.
- There's a special ... Well, nevermind.
I'm not, I don't know.
(Michael laughing)
- All right, any other questions?
Over here.
- [Attendee] Hey, thanks again.
What was the budget per badge?
Are you allowed to say?
- No, we don't talk about budget.
- [Attendee] Okay, that's fine.
- Yeah.
- [DEFCON Staff] All right.
- [Attendee] Thank you.
I'm just curious,
can we try what it sounds like if everybody in this room
plays something at the same time?
- What did he say?
Say it one more time please.
- [Attendee] Can we all play something on our badges
right now at the same time to test what it sounds like?
- Get in.
- Yeah, are we all playing?
- Is this the final countdown or?
(multiple beeps)
- Oh, it sounds so good.
(indistinct)
- Oh, that's awesome.
- It's kind of creepy.
I don't like it. (chuckles)
- A little bit creepy, all right.
(all laughing)
- I hope to hear the creepy sounds
throughout the whole hotels as well.
I would enjoy that. (laughs)
- Excellent.
- Great idea.
(audience applauding)
- [Attendee] Hi folks, how are you?
- Good, how are you?
- [Attendee] This is my first DEFCON.
- Woo! Welcome.
- [Attendee] So I just came from my first Skytalk
and it was really interesting,
but on my way up, I got yelled at,
put away my phone for talking possibly.
And I was just wondering how hard
or theoretical would it be to repurpose it
so you can turn this into recording device
in the middle of Skytalks
because that puts a recording device
in every single person's hand here.
- I mean, don't do that.
- [Attendee] No, I'm just
putting it out there because I brought it up to them
and I looked around and I was like, holy shit!
- So the default programming, you've got three samples,
one second each for recording.
- Okay. - Yeah.
- [Attendee] So there's not enough memory
to hold enough audio?
- You could secretly record three seconds.
- [Attendee] Okay, so that's good.
Good, thank you.
- [DEFCON Staff] Thanks for asking a question.
This is five bucks (indistinct)
- Hey, any other questions?
- [DEFCON Staff] Oh, right here.
- [Attendee] So awesome badge.
And when I first saw it, I was like, oh, dang!
I should have paid more attention in music classes. (laughs)
So did you have to do some research
in terms of how to read a music sheet
or anything like that
or were you already musically inclined?
- I'm not, but she is musically inclined.
- Oh (chuckles) so music's been part of my whole life.
I perform in theater and do musical theater.
And so I was like, I'm happy to do,
and I play the piano a little bit,
like this hand, really well.
This hand doesn't do so great,
but this hand does great. (laughs)
You love me. (laughs)
- [Attendee] I just wanna thank the community of DEFCON
for resharing my final countdown video
I posted on (chuckles) the forum.
Lilly had the most likes and shares and views
I got on all my music.
So I wanna thank you guys for just completely
just going wild, just sharing for that.
So it made a big impact to my music.
So, thank you.
- Thanks. - Thank you.
(indistinct)
- All right.
Any more questions you only got time for one or two more.
(indistinct)
- [Attendee] Hey awesome.
Thanks for the badge.
It's been actually pretty fantastic.
This is actually in regards to the badge challenge.
So I guess minor spoilers for some people.
Will the, I guess the phone system
or whatever that you guys have on the badge challenge,
will that may be made available for
post-conference usage in case ...
(speaking simultaneously)
- No, it won't be available after CON.
We might be able to work something out,
but I wouldn't count on it at this point.
Got one more over there.
- The last question.
- Run.
- [Attendee] How long do you expect
the batteries to last for?
Did you test that at all?
- We did test the batteries a bit.
It depends on a lot of things.
So just leaving it on,
it'll go to sleep after a few minutes
and that should last pretty much
the duration of the conference.
The more you play with it, the faster it's gonna die.
If you got an SAO it's really gonna die.
(audience laughing)
- And it's all theoretical until you find out.
- All right, thank you so much for coming to the badge talk.
(audience applauding)
We'll see you at the CON.