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so I'm Damon profansick uh and

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the talk I want to give today is about

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Apostle syndrome which I think a lot of

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us feel

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um

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and uh you know

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we feel like maybe we aren't worthy of

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of where we are in our career

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so just a little bit about me uh

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integrisic on Twitter uh I'm technical

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director of the access appsec team at

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Optus security I've been Consulting for

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21 years

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I've been performing offensive testing

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for the last about 12 years

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um

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work for numerous different consulting

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firms like Spire Labs NCC group Flores

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IBM extra thread

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um done lots of testing for various

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types of firms

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lots of Fortune 100s and and alike I

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lead our co-lead our local Oasis chapter

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here in Indianapolis

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and help coordinating Circle city con

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here where I'm speaking today

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um I've spoken at many large conferences

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uh published tools and cves

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my career

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I don't say any of this to brag that's

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not about that this is to set the stage

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for what I'm about to talk about

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today

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so

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we're here to talk about imposter

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syndrome

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which as I said a lot of people feel

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especially through coming out of the

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pandemic mental health is a very

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important topic

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in our industry also especially so

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that's why I wanted to address this

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today

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so the Oxford dictionary defines

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imposter uh or syndrome as the ability

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inability or persistent inability to

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believe that one's success is deserved

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or has been legitimately achieved as a

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result of One's Own efforts or skills

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um unfortunately about 70 percent of

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people and that's why I feel like it's a

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relevant Topic in our industry and

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frankly a lot of other Industries uh 70

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of people

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experience this imposter syndrome at

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some point in their career

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uh the irony also is that

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um the more successful you get

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you start to feel it more because you're

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achieving more in your career

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and you're just not confident in your in

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what you've got going on

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um and this especially strikes women

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which is also very critical for our

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industry is there we we're trying to

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do more diversity and more inclusion and

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and bring more women into our industry

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now there's a number of reasons why uh

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we experience this imposter syndrome

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um so I'm going to try to break those

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down a little bit

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uh one is the perfectionist and I would

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classify myself I fall into this

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category

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um

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and uh some reasons why the

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perfectionist struggles is

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um

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um just like analysis paralysis you you

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feel like you can't if you can't get it

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perfect you can't get it right you can't

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do the job correctly

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This was

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um really particularly uh you know we're

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in reflection uh in middle school I I

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could jump really high and far I could

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run really fast

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and I wanted to go out for a track in

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Middle School

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but I chose not to because if I couldn't

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be the best

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I didn't want to do it at all

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and I regret that to this day that I

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could have done more there

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um the other thing too is uh

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I'm an artist

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um and in high school

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I was

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Treasurer and then the next secretary of

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National Art Honor Society I went

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through

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advanced placement art and uh you know

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all basically I exhausted the art

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classes

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and uh

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but

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I was really hard on myself and since

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high school

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I think I've drawn three things

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just because it does give me some

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anxiety because I don't do rough drafts

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I draw it and you know it is what it is

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and so if it's not I'm also a super

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realist so if it doesn't look exactly

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like what I'm trying to replicate

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I struggle with that

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um

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so

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uh the next would be the Superwoman or

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Superman uh

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the ones having a hero complex they have

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to save the day they have to say yes to

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everything and they struggle with saying

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no and then you get

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uh overloaded

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um oversubscribe

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and uh I struggle with this a little bit

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too feeling like I'll if I say no that's

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just weakness I'm not I can't handle

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everything and we and the truth be told

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we can't handle everything so that's not

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realistic and that's going to cause more

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anxiety and more of that syndrome

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uh the other one is the natural genius

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these are people that do have an innate

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skill that's already

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in their DNA that they are just really

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good at whatever it is

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um and what they do is then rely on that

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natural ability and uh

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then what that leads to also is the lack

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of preparation for what they're about to

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do because they just rely that they are

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really good at what they do

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uh and that can cause them to fail

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because they are not prepared

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uh the next one would be The Soloist

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so this is the Lone Wolf you know go on

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their own

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guns ablazon

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um and early on my career

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uh when I first started Consulting 21

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years ago

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this was this came up on my review

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probably every year is like you you

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don't you're not team player you're

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trying to go It Alone you you're

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um you know you need to work with others

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and

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and that came out of I think again back

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to the perfectionists it came out of

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if you want something done right you do

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it yourself and I don't trust other

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people or rely on other people also I

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can do it

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um and and that that just is going to

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build anxiety and also lead to failure

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you know eventually

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um the other one is the expert the one

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who has to be the smartest person in the

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room and they don't feel like they're

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good enough if they can't Trump

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everybody in the room

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um and they have a strong fear of

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looking dumb

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uh and and that leads again back to

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anxiety and um stress

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and and then imposter syndrome that

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maybe they're faking it maybe they

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aren't the smartest person in the room

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uh as I said before

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um the irony of it is that uh the more

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successful uh you are in your career the

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more you may feel this way as we get as

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we grow in our careers

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again

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one of these things too is like back to

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the perfect perfectionist is uh you know

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one of the issues is procrastination

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um putting things off

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out of fear that they won't have it

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completely necessary to their high

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standards or their boss's high standards

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um and oftentimes it's also because or

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if they do succeed they feel like it's a

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fluke or it's luck uh that God with them

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there

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um the other flip side coin of that is

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over preparation so this is like

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um

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uh not feeling like you you have

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everything right exactly then you know

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you're kind of just stuck in them up

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um

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uh this is really reinforces the idea

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that the Imposter needs to work extra

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hard

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and would not have succeeded otherwise

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um

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and then once because they work so hard

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often this leads to burnout

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also a problem in our industry

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um

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I talked about the smartest person in

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the room thing uh I didn't hold my hand

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up for that one but I also I dealt dealt

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with this in my early career as well

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um my first job

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I started Consulting right out of the

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gate I I was never you know practitioner

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the company that I was with we uh you

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know we did a lot of things and I

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learned

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basically if it plugs in the wall or you

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know have Blinky Lights I've done it

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anything you can think of

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um

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and I ended up in my team being the one

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that everyone came to

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something was if they had a sticky

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problem that they couldn't figure out

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like they came to me and inevitably I

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usually could fix it or figure out a way

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to fix it

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um and they started calling me Neo

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around the office which inflates your

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ego right you know and um

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my boss

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uh he got jealous and was like Hey

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everybody stop calling him Neo you know

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because

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you have to not be afraid to not be the

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smartest person

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I've you know I've worked for

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like I said numerous consulting firms

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and as I Advanced my career and worked

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for some really rock star companies like

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NCC group and

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um uh you know just all over my listed

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uh I found like I'm not

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and I may be a senior person to a person

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and frankly

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in that area smarter than I am we have

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to not be afraid there's too many areas

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for us to to be the expert in everything

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here and be the smartest person

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um

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so but I mean the more we learn and know

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the more we realize we don't know

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and that's what growing in our career is

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about and and trusting on other people

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um and I that's why where I learned like

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I don't know everything and I can't know

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everything

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um

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the other thing that my lovely wife is

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actually sitting it on it's here uh we

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talk about a lot is that

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um kids growing their brains back in

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their 20s right uh and realizing that

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they're their parents weren't the morons

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they thought they were they don't know

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everything so this is about growth and

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about learning that we don't know

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everything and there are other people

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that you know know stuff and uh

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and so this is their coming of age

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failure

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this goes back to all the things they

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said people have a fear of failure

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failure is necessary

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failure is how we grow

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here's a vast difference between

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intelligence and wisdom

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wisdom's gained by failing

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and learning from that failure

287
00:13:09,480 --> 00:13:11,100
um

288
00:13:11,100 --> 00:13:13,880
and knowing we will fail

289
00:13:13,880 --> 00:13:16,800
it's it's just like in our industry we

290
00:13:16,800 --> 00:13:21,660
say no more uh if we'll be briefed it's

291
00:13:21,660 --> 00:13:25,260
when will be breached we will fail

292
00:13:25,260 --> 00:13:28,200
and that's okay but the most key part of

293
00:13:28,200 --> 00:13:30,120
that is fail fast

294
00:13:30,120 --> 00:13:33,180
fail fast realize it and learn from it

295
00:13:33,180 --> 00:13:34,620
grow

296
00:13:34,620 --> 00:13:36,839
so that you don't fail again in that

297
00:13:36,839 --> 00:13:38,040
same manner

298
00:13:38,040 --> 00:13:40,320
you may fail in another manner but in

299
00:13:40,320 --> 00:13:42,480
that manner you won't fail

300
00:13:42,480 --> 00:13:45,720
and so learn from those mistakes

301
00:13:45,720 --> 00:13:47,720
um

302
00:13:49,860 --> 00:13:53,240
one of the first podcasts when I got

303
00:13:53,240 --> 00:13:55,740
really deep into information security I

304
00:13:55,740 --> 00:13:58,380
listened to was was one that was a

305
00:13:58,380 --> 00:14:02,040
recording of many you may know Adam

306
00:14:02,040 --> 00:14:04,680
Savage from MythBusters

307
00:14:04,680 --> 00:14:09,480
he gave a keynote speech at Defcon 17

308
00:14:09,480 --> 00:14:11,040
um which was

309
00:14:11,040 --> 00:14:13,139
just mind-blowing to me

310
00:14:13,139 --> 00:14:15,540
and one of the key statements I took out

311
00:14:15,540 --> 00:14:18,959
of that it was a story of how as he got

312
00:14:18,959 --> 00:14:21,480
into the um

313
00:14:21,480 --> 00:14:25,980
his industry of like movie

314
00:14:25,980 --> 00:14:28,200
you know special effects and things like

315
00:14:28,200 --> 00:14:29,880
that uh

316
00:14:29,880 --> 00:14:33,480
uh how he failed uh so it was a whole

317
00:14:33,480 --> 00:14:37,320
talk on failure was superb

318
00:14:37,320 --> 00:14:39,600
he said some key things and one of the

319
00:14:39,600 --> 00:14:41,579
key things he said is I don't trust

320
00:14:41,579 --> 00:14:44,339
people who haven't failed

321
00:14:44,339 --> 00:14:47,579
and that's for various reasons one he

322
00:14:47,579 --> 00:14:50,220
said they're Liars

323
00:14:50,220 --> 00:14:53,579
they everybody failed

324
00:14:53,579 --> 00:14:57,180
uh number two would be they're gonna

325
00:14:57,180 --> 00:14:59,339
throw you under the bus because they

326
00:14:59,339 --> 00:15:02,519
don't want to look like they failed

327
00:15:02,519 --> 00:15:04,800
and number three is

328
00:15:04,800 --> 00:15:06,480
they just don't have enough experience

329
00:15:06,480 --> 00:15:08,519
maybe they're new to the industry maybe

330
00:15:08,519 --> 00:15:10,860
they're new to this area

331
00:15:10,860 --> 00:15:12,600
um so

332
00:15:12,600 --> 00:15:15,720
uh that's why he says I don't trust

333
00:15:15,720 --> 00:15:18,860
people who haven't failed

334
00:15:19,320 --> 00:15:22,740
so what now what I mean I've given a lot

335
00:15:22,740 --> 00:15:24,720
of stuff about this but

336
00:15:24,720 --> 00:15:30,019
how do we work past it how do we move on

337
00:15:30,180 --> 00:15:32,940
uh the first thing is just start Where

338
00:15:32,940 --> 00:15:33,720
You Are

339
00:15:33,720 --> 00:15:36,720
you know we're at this place acknowledge

340
00:15:36,720 --> 00:15:41,040
uh the way that you feel uh and it and

341
00:15:41,040 --> 00:15:42,899
own it

342
00:15:42,899 --> 00:15:45,120
um but know that you're not alone

343
00:15:45,120 --> 00:15:48,180
as I said in the beginning 70 percent

344
00:15:48,180 --> 00:15:51,180
uh of folks almost three quarters of

345
00:15:51,180 --> 00:15:53,519
folks are going to experience this at

346
00:15:53,519 --> 00:15:55,139
some point in their career

347
00:15:55,139 --> 00:15:58,220
so you're not alone

348
00:15:58,980 --> 00:16:01,560
you don't need to be perfect

349
00:16:01,560 --> 00:16:02,880
you don't

350
00:16:02,880 --> 00:16:05,399
again you're going to fail

351
00:16:05,399 --> 00:16:08,360
you have to acknowledge that

352
00:16:08,360 --> 00:16:11,399
Perfection is frankly it's as impossible

353
00:16:11,399 --> 00:16:14,760
it's impossible ask the possible task

354
00:16:14,760 --> 00:16:16,380
um but

355
00:16:16,380 --> 00:16:18,660
if you're not perfect and you do fail

356
00:16:18,660 --> 00:16:21,360
like I said before learn from those

357
00:16:21,360 --> 00:16:24,899
mistakes so that you can improve and be

358
00:16:24,899 --> 00:16:27,180
better next time

359
00:16:27,180 --> 00:16:29,279
also

360
00:16:29,279 --> 00:16:30,899
um part of like especially the

361
00:16:30,899 --> 00:16:32,639
perfectionists

362
00:16:32,639 --> 00:16:38,000
and things fear feedback and criticism

363
00:16:38,519 --> 00:16:40,199
ask

364
00:16:40,199 --> 00:16:42,720
for constructive criticism

365
00:16:42,720 --> 00:16:44,880
ask for it to come back so that you can

366
00:16:44,880 --> 00:16:47,100
get better at what you do what you do

367
00:16:47,100 --> 00:16:49,199
and

368
00:16:49,199 --> 00:16:51,180
um and Excel and that will help lower

369
00:16:51,180 --> 00:16:53,519
the anxiety and lower that feeling of

370
00:16:53,519 --> 00:16:55,880
impossible

371
00:16:57,420 --> 00:17:00,180
my first consulting job

372
00:17:00,180 --> 00:17:03,680
I had uh

373
00:17:04,380 --> 00:17:07,199
I had an incident with with a CEO that

374
00:17:07,199 --> 00:17:09,000
uh

375
00:17:09,000 --> 00:17:11,280
they weren't doing things the way that I

376
00:17:11,280 --> 00:17:13,500
felt they should be doing right

377
00:17:13,500 --> 00:17:16,020
um and so I talked to the CEO

378
00:17:16,020 --> 00:17:17,520
is like

379
00:17:17,520 --> 00:17:19,859
blah blah blah you know we're not doing

380
00:17:19,859 --> 00:17:20,880
this thing

381
00:17:20,880 --> 00:17:23,040
right and he's like

382
00:17:23,040 --> 00:17:25,799
well you know I disagree I'm like well

383
00:17:25,799 --> 00:17:27,540
no

384
00:17:27,540 --> 00:17:30,059
I was seeing cocky arrogant early in my

385
00:17:30,059 --> 00:17:31,500
career

386
00:17:31,500 --> 00:17:34,919
um and defensive

387
00:17:34,919 --> 00:17:35,940
um

388
00:17:35,940 --> 00:17:39,380
hey I was Neo right

389
00:17:39,419 --> 00:17:41,640
well I got back to the office

390
00:17:41,640 --> 00:17:44,340
I got called in by my boss

391
00:17:44,340 --> 00:17:47,039
I was like hey did you argue with the

392
00:17:47,039 --> 00:17:50,160
CEO of one of our clients

393
00:17:50,160 --> 00:17:52,679
I was like no I didn't argue I just told

394
00:17:52,679 --> 00:17:55,799
him how it is

395
00:17:55,799 --> 00:17:59,220
and he told me something that I remember

396
00:17:59,220 --> 00:18:02,220
to this day uh and and take heart and

397
00:18:02,220 --> 00:18:04,580
especially in Consulting

398
00:18:04,580 --> 00:18:07,679
perception is reality

399
00:18:07,679 --> 00:18:10,380
if he felt you were arguing with him

400
00:18:10,380 --> 00:18:12,539
you were arguing with him it doesn't

401
00:18:12,539 --> 00:18:15,720
matter what you think or feel so

402
00:18:15,720 --> 00:18:18,179
just keep in mind that people are going

403
00:18:18,179 --> 00:18:21,000
to perceive things their own way

404
00:18:21,000 --> 00:18:25,679
and uh you know move past it

405
00:18:25,679 --> 00:18:28,799
um Socrates gave a great quote quote um

406
00:18:28,799 --> 00:18:31,320
I want to read is uh true knowledge

407
00:18:31,320 --> 00:18:35,940
exists in knowing that you know nothing

408
00:18:35,940 --> 00:18:39,179
we don't know everything and and we

409
00:18:39,179 --> 00:18:42,179
would never will and so you just have to

410
00:18:42,179 --> 00:18:45,419
accept Where You Are

411
00:18:45,419 --> 00:18:46,679
um

412
00:18:46,679 --> 00:18:49,500
another great quote by Neil deGrasse

413
00:18:49,500 --> 00:18:51,660
Tyson is um

414
00:18:51,660 --> 00:18:54,120
one of the great challenges in life is

415
00:18:54,120 --> 00:18:55,200
knowing

416
00:18:55,200 --> 00:18:56,700
enough

417
00:18:56,700 --> 00:18:58,260
to think

418
00:18:58,260 --> 00:19:02,820
you're right but not knowing enough

419
00:19:02,820 --> 00:19:05,720
that you're wrong

420
00:19:05,760 --> 00:19:07,860
and you know this is where the kids grow

421
00:19:07,860 --> 00:19:12,500
their brains back later check that out

422
00:19:14,760 --> 00:19:16,740
also stick to the fact

423
00:19:16,740 --> 00:19:19,440
you know understand

424
00:19:19,440 --> 00:19:21,780
Where You Are

425
00:19:21,780 --> 00:19:23,520
um

426
00:19:23,520 --> 00:19:26,039
take maybe take some time to reflect on

427
00:19:26,039 --> 00:19:28,380
your prior achievement

428
00:19:28,380 --> 00:19:30,900
don't forget where you came from

429
00:19:30,900 --> 00:19:33,780
you have built a great career you have

430
00:19:33,780 --> 00:19:35,820
done great things

431
00:19:35,820 --> 00:19:37,919
so don't be too hard on yourself

432
00:19:37,919 --> 00:19:40,020
think about that

433
00:19:40,020 --> 00:19:42,360
also something that I learned in my

434
00:19:42,360 --> 00:19:43,919
first Consulting career especially this

435
00:19:43,919 --> 00:19:46,919
especially great for uh like when you

436
00:19:46,919 --> 00:19:50,299
have your annual review or whatever

437
00:19:50,340 --> 00:19:54,539
um if you get emails or accolades

438
00:19:54,539 --> 00:19:55,919
say those

439
00:19:55,919 --> 00:19:58,260
document those

440
00:19:58,260 --> 00:20:00,480
um it's really good for reflection but

441
00:20:00,480 --> 00:20:02,460
also like I said great for job reviews

442
00:20:02,460 --> 00:20:05,160
to be able to send to your awesome

443
00:20:05,160 --> 00:20:07,620
uh and to be able to talk back because

444
00:20:07,620 --> 00:20:09,660
you I mean you don't really remember

445
00:20:09,660 --> 00:20:11,220
everything that might

446
00:20:11,220 --> 00:20:12,960
or all the Praises that you may have

447
00:20:12,960 --> 00:20:15,840
gotten and sometimes

448
00:20:15,840 --> 00:20:18,539
in our industry there isn't a lot of

449
00:20:18,539 --> 00:20:19,620
praise

450
00:20:19,620 --> 00:20:22,020
thankless job but when you get those

451
00:20:22,020 --> 00:20:25,860
save them for your own edification but

452
00:20:25,860 --> 00:20:30,979
also for like I said job reviews

453
00:20:32,100 --> 00:20:35,100
also don't go It Alone you know um I

454
00:20:35,100 --> 00:20:37,320
mentioned 70 percent

455
00:20:37,320 --> 00:20:39,000
there are other ones out there

456
00:20:39,000 --> 00:20:40,320
struggling

457
00:20:40,320 --> 00:20:41,940
so

458
00:20:41,940 --> 00:20:45,299
realize when you need help early and you

459
00:20:45,299 --> 00:20:47,400
might be struggling

460
00:20:47,400 --> 00:20:50,100
don't be embarrassed to ask for help I

461
00:20:50,100 --> 00:20:51,960
know that's a challenging thing

462
00:20:51,960 --> 00:20:55,799
especially in our industry is that we

463
00:20:55,799 --> 00:20:56,460
um

464
00:20:56,460 --> 00:21:00,179
there's there can be an ego problem

465
00:21:00,179 --> 00:21:02,820
um and so but don't be embarrassed to

466
00:21:02,820 --> 00:21:04,320
ask for help especially if you have a

467
00:21:04,320 --> 00:21:07,380
safe group to ask for help uh whether

468
00:21:07,380 --> 00:21:09,120
it's within your company whether it's

469
00:21:09,120 --> 00:21:11,460
within this community

470
00:21:11,460 --> 00:21:16,860
uh ask for help set your ego aside

471
00:21:16,860 --> 00:21:18,059
um because

472
00:21:18,059 --> 00:21:21,419
medley we're all still learning and and

473
00:21:21,419 --> 00:21:24,679
we have to understand that

474
00:21:24,780 --> 00:21:27,360
additionally recognize others

475
00:21:27,360 --> 00:21:29,400
achievements

476
00:21:29,400 --> 00:21:30,480
um

477
00:21:30,480 --> 00:21:33,120
you like as I said you can't know

478
00:21:33,120 --> 00:21:34,559
everything

479
00:21:34,559 --> 00:21:37,260
especially in an expansive and

480
00:21:37,260 --> 00:21:39,720
ever-changing field as ours where one

481
00:21:39,720 --> 00:21:41,400
day it's one thing and then a whole

482
00:21:41,400 --> 00:21:44,340
another day it's something else

483
00:21:44,340 --> 00:21:47,100
we're constantly learning

484
00:21:47,100 --> 00:21:49,620
and recognize that

485
00:21:49,620 --> 00:21:52,559
um don't compare apples to oranges uh

486
00:21:52,559 --> 00:21:54,600
just because someone's really good at

487
00:21:54,600 --> 00:21:56,880
like mobile pen testing which you're

488
00:21:56,880 --> 00:21:59,539
really good at web app testing

489
00:21:59,539 --> 00:22:02,700
you you can't you'd be down on yourself

490
00:22:02,700 --> 00:22:06,059
like oh I don't know everything I

491
00:22:06,059 --> 00:22:08,400
you know understand is apples and

492
00:22:08,400 --> 00:22:10,620
oranges we all have different strengths

493
00:22:10,620 --> 00:22:12,539
and weaknesses

494
00:22:12,539 --> 00:22:14,280
um

495
00:22:14,280 --> 00:22:16,260
so don't be threatened by them

496
00:22:16,260 --> 00:22:19,919
uh embrace them use leverage them use

497
00:22:19,919 --> 00:22:23,039
them for mentorship for your own growth

498
00:22:23,039 --> 00:22:25,200
in learning

499
00:22:25,200 --> 00:22:26,340
um

500
00:22:26,340 --> 00:22:28,500
also things may not always be what they

501
00:22:28,500 --> 00:22:32,700
think it may be you know uh one way on

502
00:22:32,700 --> 00:22:35,520
the outside you know an example of this

503
00:22:35,520 --> 00:22:37,559
is like social media people want

504
00:22:37,559 --> 00:22:39,900
people's other families on social media

505
00:22:39,900 --> 00:22:41,640
oh they're always on vacation they're

506
00:22:41,640 --> 00:22:43,260
always having the perfect life the

507
00:22:43,260 --> 00:22:45,059
perfect kids

508
00:22:45,059 --> 00:22:47,100
it's not always the case

509
00:22:47,100 --> 00:22:48,720
and so

510
00:22:48,720 --> 00:22:51,240
keep that in mind too that maybe

511
00:22:51,240 --> 00:22:53,280
everyone else doesn't have it put

512
00:22:53,280 --> 00:22:56,940
together and you are not put together so

513
00:22:56,940 --> 00:22:59,039
rely on that

514
00:22:59,039 --> 00:23:03,000
also as I talked about feedback before

515
00:23:03,000 --> 00:23:06,000
you provide valuable feedback

516
00:23:06,000 --> 00:23:08,820
it's a valuable constructive feedback

517
00:23:08,820 --> 00:23:11,580
not just criticism but something that

518
00:23:11,580 --> 00:23:14,400
that they could use take away and learn

519
00:23:14,400 --> 00:23:17,039
from it and then

520
00:23:17,039 --> 00:23:20,220
um you know become a stronger consultant

521
00:23:20,220 --> 00:23:22,860
or practitioner or whatever it may be

522
00:23:22,860 --> 00:23:25,500
this applies to all of our life it

523
00:23:25,500 --> 00:23:26,580
doesn't have to just be security

524
00:23:26,580 --> 00:23:28,740
industry

525
00:23:28,740 --> 00:23:29,940
um

526
00:23:29,940 --> 00:23:33,000
also something that as I became a people

527
00:23:33,000 --> 00:23:36,600
manager and even probably before

528
00:23:36,600 --> 00:23:37,260
um

529
00:23:37,260 --> 00:23:39,900
praise them personally

530
00:23:39,900 --> 00:23:41,159
um lift them up

531
00:23:41,159 --> 00:23:45,360
but also what I try to do is uh you know

532
00:23:45,360 --> 00:23:48,059
if if I hear something good or I see

533
00:23:48,059 --> 00:23:51,659
something good that uh some individual

534
00:23:51,659 --> 00:23:53,640
is doing well

535
00:23:53,640 --> 00:23:56,940
I'll send the email to them usually

536
00:23:56,940 --> 00:24:00,480
seeing their managers so that they get

537
00:24:00,480 --> 00:24:03,000
the recognition that again in the

538
00:24:03,000 --> 00:24:05,640
thankless career we sometimes do

539
00:24:05,640 --> 00:24:07,860
won't get and we'll help them on their

540
00:24:07,860 --> 00:24:09,240
job reviews

541
00:24:09,240 --> 00:24:13,080
uh and and with that be specific on what

542
00:24:13,080 --> 00:24:16,399
they did very well

543
00:24:16,799 --> 00:24:20,460
uh decide to thrive so don't get stuck

544
00:24:20,460 --> 00:24:22,620
in the mud you know just

545
00:24:22,620 --> 00:24:24,659
that's the whole point of this is move

546
00:24:24,659 --> 00:24:27,240
on from it it's a state of mind

547
00:24:27,240 --> 00:24:32,400
uh often as we uh tell kit our kids

548
00:24:32,400 --> 00:24:34,080
um we can't control all the

549
00:24:34,080 --> 00:24:37,799
circumstances but we can control

550
00:24:37,799 --> 00:24:40,559
how we react to those circumstances

551
00:24:40,559 --> 00:24:42,559
so it's not always going to go your way

552
00:24:42,559 --> 00:24:45,299
and that may be not your fault and maybe

553
00:24:45,299 --> 00:24:47,280
Alexander your control but

554
00:24:47,280 --> 00:24:50,460
uh you decide how you want to

555
00:24:50,460 --> 00:24:52,020
internalize that and how you want to

556
00:24:52,020 --> 00:24:53,159
handle that

557
00:24:53,159 --> 00:24:57,480
you decide uh how we respond

558
00:24:57,480 --> 00:24:59,700
and believe in yourself

559
00:24:59,700 --> 00:25:03,419
I mean you made it to where you are

560
00:25:03,419 --> 00:25:07,200
for various reasons believe in yourself

561
00:25:07,200 --> 00:25:09,780
so get give yourself your own little pep

562
00:25:09,780 --> 00:25:12,020
talk

563
00:25:12,299 --> 00:25:13,740
um

564
00:25:13,740 --> 00:25:15,240
lastly

565
00:25:15,240 --> 00:25:17,520
connect with other imposters

566
00:25:17,520 --> 00:25:21,120
I use air quotes around that imposters

567
00:25:21,120 --> 00:25:25,020
because as I said again 70 feel the same

568
00:25:25,020 --> 00:25:27,659
way you do and so don't be afraid to

569
00:25:27,659 --> 00:25:28,740
reach out

570
00:25:28,740 --> 00:25:31,500
seek out others who have the same way of

571
00:25:31,500 --> 00:25:32,760
feeling

572
00:25:32,760 --> 00:25:36,659
and don't feel ashamed because you're in

573
00:25:36,659 --> 00:25:41,220
a big crowd of people that feel likely

574
00:25:41,220 --> 00:25:44,220
the same way you do at at least at some

575
00:25:44,220 --> 00:25:47,220
point and they can remember and relate

576
00:25:47,220 --> 00:25:51,419
so reach out if you have any of these

577
00:25:51,419 --> 00:25:54,860
concerns or feelings

578
00:25:56,400 --> 00:25:59,720
with that I'll take questions

579
00:26:01,860 --> 00:26:04,860
comments

580
00:26:04,919 --> 00:26:07,400
okay

581
00:26:07,679 --> 00:26:09,779
that is it

582
00:26:09,779 --> 00:26:12,679
ah okay

583
00:26:21,360 --> 00:26:23,039
well

584
00:26:23,039 --> 00:26:25,140
so the question was how do you provide

585
00:26:25,140 --> 00:26:26,580
that constructive feedback to someone

586
00:26:26,580 --> 00:26:30,600
without them feeling offended

587
00:26:31,020 --> 00:26:34,380
there's a there's multi parts of that

588
00:26:34,380 --> 00:26:39,480
um one is as I mentioned before uh

589
00:26:39,480 --> 00:26:41,400
part of that's on them if they feel that

590
00:26:41,400 --> 00:26:42,659
way

591
00:26:42,659 --> 00:26:43,380
um

592
00:26:43,380 --> 00:26:45,779
but

593
00:26:45,779 --> 00:26:48,059
so you can't be afraid to provide that

594
00:26:48,059 --> 00:26:50,039
constructive feedback

595
00:26:50,039 --> 00:26:52,380
um and not everyone is going to take it

596
00:26:52,380 --> 00:26:53,820
well

597
00:26:53,820 --> 00:26:55,620
the first time

598
00:26:55,620 --> 00:26:57,600
or the second time where they're done or

599
00:26:57,600 --> 00:26:58,520
whatever

600
00:26:58,520 --> 00:27:01,620
but they may reflect on it maybe years

601
00:27:01,620 --> 00:27:04,020
later and

602
00:27:04,020 --> 00:27:07,740
be like man she's right you know

603
00:27:07,740 --> 00:27:10,140
I am seeing a pattern I I do need to

604
00:27:10,140 --> 00:27:11,580
change this

605
00:27:11,580 --> 00:27:12,240
um

606
00:27:12,240 --> 00:27:14,700
so don't be afraid to do that because

607
00:27:14,700 --> 00:27:17,100
you may offend someone

608
00:27:17,100 --> 00:27:19,140
um and that's why I also add that

609
00:27:19,140 --> 00:27:22,620
clarifier valuable or constructive

610
00:27:22,620 --> 00:27:24,840
if you're just scraping and someone just

611
00:27:24,840 --> 00:27:27,779
right with them it's not it's not

612
00:27:27,779 --> 00:27:29,880
constructive

613
00:27:29,880 --> 00:27:33,120
also come with a recommendation

614
00:27:33,120 --> 00:27:34,740
um

615
00:27:34,740 --> 00:27:38,159
uh people who worked for me uh you know

616
00:27:38,159 --> 00:27:40,320
I could tell them don't come to me with

617
00:27:40,320 --> 00:27:43,380
a problem just with just the problem

618
00:27:43,380 --> 00:27:46,320
come to me with one maybe two maybe

619
00:27:46,320 --> 00:27:50,220
three solutions that you recommend

620
00:27:50,220 --> 00:27:53,039
um so if you're giving constructive

621
00:27:53,039 --> 00:27:54,480
criticism

622
00:27:54,480 --> 00:27:56,480
don't just criticize

623
00:27:56,480 --> 00:27:59,640
uh maybe give them some helpful

624
00:27:59,640 --> 00:28:02,279
recommendations that they could do to

625
00:28:02,279 --> 00:28:04,620
modify that behavior or whatever it is

626
00:28:04,620 --> 00:28:06,840
and

627
00:28:06,840 --> 00:28:09,059
in the future

628
00:28:09,059 --> 00:28:11,400
um one of the

629
00:28:11,400 --> 00:28:13,500
one of the interview questions I love to

630
00:28:13,500 --> 00:28:16,799
ask uh when I'm interviewing people is

631
00:28:16,799 --> 00:28:19,740
tell me about a project or time or

632
00:28:19,740 --> 00:28:22,799
something that horribly wrong

633
00:28:22,799 --> 00:28:26,039
and what did you learn from it how did

634
00:28:26,039 --> 00:28:28,559
you handle it how did you if it was a

635
00:28:28,559 --> 00:28:31,020
client facing thing how did you you know

636
00:28:31,020 --> 00:28:34,620
a sway their concerns

637
00:28:34,620 --> 00:28:37,740
and that is for a very good reason that

638
00:28:37,740 --> 00:28:39,740
I asked that tricky question because

639
00:28:39,740 --> 00:28:42,720
that goes back to the Adam Savage quote

640
00:28:42,720 --> 00:28:44,940
I don't trust people who haven't failed

641
00:28:44,940 --> 00:28:47,520
uh if they tell them can't name and not

642
00:28:47,520 --> 00:28:49,620
a time and I tell them it doesn't have

643
00:28:49,620 --> 00:28:51,179
to be in your work career it doesn't

644
00:28:51,179 --> 00:28:52,140
have to be

645
00:28:52,140 --> 00:28:54,360
Purity related

646
00:28:54,360 --> 00:28:56,520
you tell me about time because I want

647
00:28:56,520 --> 00:28:57,900
them to be honest I want to see their

648
00:28:57,900 --> 00:29:00,419
honesty and I want to gauge where they

649
00:29:00,419 --> 00:29:03,779
are on that list of of concerns that

650
00:29:03,779 --> 00:29:06,059
Adam Savage had

651
00:29:06,059 --> 00:29:06,960
um

652
00:29:06,960 --> 00:29:09,480
so and I want to see that they had

653
00:29:09,480 --> 00:29:11,400
growth that they learned something from

654
00:29:11,400 --> 00:29:12,600
it and

655
00:29:12,600 --> 00:29:14,340
I'm not going to repeat that task in the

656
00:29:14,340 --> 00:29:15,179
future

657
00:29:15,179 --> 00:29:18,720
so that's why I asked that question

658
00:29:18,720 --> 00:29:22,220
does that answer your question

659
00:29:22,860 --> 00:29:27,260
okay uh anything else yeah

660
00:29:34,140 --> 00:29:36,179
oh that's a very good question the

661
00:29:36,179 --> 00:29:39,179
question was any tips on recognize when

662
00:29:39,179 --> 00:29:41,520
others might be having imposter syndrome

663
00:29:41,520 --> 00:29:44,520
and helping them through it

664
00:29:44,520 --> 00:29:46,520
um

665
00:29:46,679 --> 00:29:51,080
I I would reflect back to

666
00:29:55,980 --> 00:29:58,740
uh probably the slide

667
00:29:58,740 --> 00:30:01,740
is is recognizing that the ways that

668
00:30:01,740 --> 00:30:03,679
people might

669
00:30:03,679 --> 00:30:06,059
pigeonhole themselves into this right

670
00:30:06,059 --> 00:30:09,679
look for the lone wolf look for the

671
00:30:09,679 --> 00:30:11,880
perfectionists who you know it's not

672
00:30:11,880 --> 00:30:13,080
getting things done because they can't

673
00:30:13,080 --> 00:30:15,000
get it perfect

674
00:30:15,000 --> 00:30:16,140
um

675
00:30:16,140 --> 00:30:18,720
just you know look through this list see

676
00:30:18,720 --> 00:30:20,700
look for the person who you you ask

677
00:30:20,700 --> 00:30:24,240
stuff for and then just never say no

678
00:30:24,240 --> 00:30:27,000
um and I think that would be a good way

679
00:30:27,000 --> 00:30:30,480
to identify those and and maybe uh

680
00:30:30,480 --> 00:30:32,100
gently

681
00:30:32,100 --> 00:30:36,000
suggest some things that might help from

682
00:30:36,000 --> 00:30:38,820
the list that I gave later on how to how

683
00:30:38,820 --> 00:30:40,500
to make it better

684
00:30:40,500 --> 00:30:42,899
like you might even seek those those

685
00:30:42,899 --> 00:30:48,239
persons not people out and say uh

686
00:30:48,299 --> 00:30:51,080
you reach out to them and say hey I'm

687
00:30:51,080 --> 00:30:53,820
from I'm suffering from this you know

688
00:30:53,820 --> 00:30:56,039
you make yourself vulnerable and then

689
00:30:56,039 --> 00:30:58,980
reciproc reciprocity they might then

690
00:30:58,980 --> 00:31:01,620
come back and and relate to a time that

691
00:31:01,620 --> 00:31:04,399
they fell down to

692
00:31:07,140 --> 00:31:09,919
anything else

693
00:31:11,580 --> 00:31:13,020
okay

694
00:31:13,020 --> 00:31:16,039
well thank you very much