1 00:00:05,047 --> 00:00:07,481 The Doctor's put us down right in the middle of the French Revolution. 2 00:00:13,047 --> 00:00:14,560 In France now there are only two sides. 3 00:00:14,647 --> 00:00:16,239 You are either with us or against us. 4 00:00:18,207 --> 00:00:19,481 It will be the guillotine for all of us! 5 00:00:20,367 --> 00:00:22,119 The Reign of Terror. 6 00:00:28,367 --> 00:00:31,200 You know, I'm certain we're sometime in the past. 7 00:00:31,287 --> 00:00:34,165 Yes. Well, we were 100 miles out. 8 00:00:34,647 --> 00:00:37,081 - Perhaps we're 100 years out as well. - Oh, rubbish, rubbish. 9 00:00:37,167 --> 00:00:41,126 When the script of "Reign of Terror" first came through the door, 10 00:00:41,207 --> 00:00:43,516 my first reaction was, " Oh, goodie. 11 00:00:43,607 --> 00:00:46,644 "It's a historical one and not a mad sci-fi one." 12 00:00:46,727 --> 00:00:48,558 Because I always liked the historical ones much better. 13 00:00:49,047 --> 00:00:51,197 It was a good idea to change into these clothes. 14 00:00:51,287 --> 00:00:53,960 We won't look so conspicuous when we go back to the ship. 15 00:00:54,047 --> 00:00:55,196 We might not get back to the ship 16 00:00:55,287 --> 00:00:57,357 if Grandfather hears we're in the Reign of Terror. 17 00:00:57,447 --> 00:00:58,562 Why not? 18 00:00:58,647 --> 00:01:00,603 It's his favourite period in the history of Earth. 19 00:01:00,687 --> 00:01:05,522 Setting one of our stories in the Reign of Terror was a very good idea. 20 00:01:05,927 --> 00:01:08,441 Because people are familiar with it. 21 00:01:08,607 --> 00:01:11,963 Or at least they were 50 years ago. 22 00:01:12,967 --> 00:01:16,277 And they would know about it. Children would know about it. 23 00:01:16,367 --> 00:01:17,561 This is England, isn't it? 24 00:01:18,527 --> 00:01:21,041 England? No, France. 25 00:01:21,527 --> 00:01:22,721 France? 26 00:01:24,567 --> 00:01:26,444 The director was Henric Hirsch. 27 00:01:26,647 --> 00:01:29,639 And Henric was a very well-educated Hungarian 28 00:01:29,807 --> 00:01:31,525 and a very interesting guy. 29 00:01:31,607 --> 00:01:34,679 He'd escaped during the 1956 revolution. 30 00:01:36,287 --> 00:01:38,084 His English was good. 31 00:01:39,967 --> 00:01:41,400 But it was... 32 00:01:44,087 --> 00:01:45,884 I would say a little bit limited. 33 00:01:45,967 --> 00:01:47,844 FORD: He seemed quite sweet. 34 00:01:47,927 --> 00:01:50,999 A bit shy. A little bit nervous. 35 00:01:51,407 --> 00:01:53,716 But I'm afraid as time went on, 36 00:01:55,487 --> 00:01:57,637 he didn't seem so sweet. 37 00:01:57,727 --> 00:01:59,922 - (BARBARA GASPING) - Don't move. 38 00:02:01,087 --> 00:02:02,918 Please put that on the table. 39 00:02:03,007 --> 00:02:05,475 COMBE: Henric was quite green as a director. 40 00:02:05,807 --> 00:02:08,526 His background, I didn't know much about, 41 00:02:08,607 --> 00:02:13,078 but I did find out that he had worked prior to Doctor Who 42 00:02:13,407 --> 00:02:17,958 on a Joyce play, for the plays department. 43 00:02:18,807 --> 00:02:21,799 And I think Verity Lambert, the producer, 44 00:02:21,887 --> 00:02:25,926 had seen that and thought, "Yes, I'll have him as a director on it. " 45 00:02:29,007 --> 00:02:32,283 Tim Combe was the production assistant on "Reign of Terror". 46 00:02:32,367 --> 00:02:33,686 He was a lovely lad. 47 00:02:33,767 --> 00:02:36,042 He probably still is a lovely lad. I haven't seen him for years. 48 00:02:36,127 --> 00:02:40,598 COMBE: It was my first job as a PA. I was learning the job, so to speak. 49 00:02:40,687 --> 00:02:44,362 I thought, "I've got a right one here. I've got a new director, 50 00:02:44,447 --> 00:02:45,960 "I'm just starting out." 51 00:02:46,047 --> 00:02:49,244 I had an AFM who was from Light Entertainment 52 00:02:49,327 --> 00:02:53,764 and a Production Secretary who I think was just starting out as well. 53 00:02:53,847 --> 00:02:56,315 So we were all new to the business. 54 00:03:05,687 --> 00:03:09,316 When Henric arrived, he didn't know an awful lot about actors. 55 00:03:09,407 --> 00:03:13,241 He had worked with one or two on the Joyce play, 56 00:03:13,327 --> 00:03:16,603 which came over to work for him in Doctor Who. 57 00:03:16,847 --> 00:03:19,919 But for the most part, actually, I did a lot of the casting for him. 58 00:03:20,207 --> 00:03:22,402 Not all Frenchmen can allow innocent people 59 00:03:22,487 --> 00:03:24,557 to be led to the guillotine, Barbara. 60 00:03:24,647 --> 00:03:26,319 Jules has saved many lives. 61 00:03:26,527 --> 00:03:28,722 One person had been at drama school with me. 62 00:03:28,807 --> 00:03:33,517 I'd been at Webber Douglas and left Webber Douglas a year and a half before. 63 00:03:34,087 --> 00:03:38,603 And other actors that I'd seen in rep. 64 00:03:39,047 --> 00:03:40,765 I don't even know your name. 65 00:03:40,847 --> 00:03:44,123 And that is another of my rules. Christian names only. 66 00:03:44,207 --> 00:03:45,879 The less my friends and I know, 67 00:03:45,967 --> 00:03:47,685 the less we can admit to when questioned. 68 00:03:47,767 --> 00:03:50,520 I thought the guest cast were excellent. 69 00:03:50,967 --> 00:03:53,481 I mean, Jimmy Cairncross was wonderful 70 00:03:53,567 --> 00:03:56,798 as this mysterious figure. 71 00:03:57,127 --> 00:03:58,480 And suddenly being revealed. 72 00:03:58,927 --> 00:04:00,679 I am James Stirling. 73 00:04:01,287 --> 00:04:02,800 Stirling? You? 74 00:04:03,047 --> 00:04:04,366 Is it so surprising? 75 00:04:05,127 --> 00:04:06,355 You must have already decided 76 00:04:06,447 --> 00:04:09,280 that to be of any use I would have to hold some position of authority. 77 00:04:10,567 --> 00:04:15,436 The rehearsals for "Reign" were very notable for many things, 78 00:04:15,767 --> 00:04:19,043 one being that we were in a very draughty rehearsal room, 79 00:04:19,127 --> 00:04:20,799 I think it leaked. 80 00:04:21,167 --> 00:04:24,796 So we had to have buckets all over the place to catch the raindrops. 81 00:04:24,887 --> 00:04:27,447 Because it was raining while we were rehearsing. 82 00:04:27,527 --> 00:04:32,043 So not only did we have to keep to our marks, we had to avoid the buckets. 83 00:04:32,647 --> 00:04:38,040 This was a bit disconcerting for us but absolutely infuriating for Henric, 84 00:04:38,847 --> 00:04:42,635 who also was not getting on terribly well with Bill at the time. 85 00:04:42,727 --> 00:04:45,799 COMBE: Well, Bill Hartnell didn't like being directed very much by Henric. 86 00:04:45,887 --> 00:04:49,004 He found it difficult, Henric being a foreigner, 87 00:04:49,767 --> 00:04:54,921 to accept that he knew how to direct an experienced actor like him. 88 00:04:55,127 --> 00:04:59,882 FORD: He didn't like people who he felt were uncertain of what they were doing. 89 00:05:00,807 --> 00:05:04,720 And it made him feel uneasy and uncertain of what he was doing. 90 00:05:04,807 --> 00:05:07,116 So he thought the thing wasn't being done as well as it could be done. 91 00:05:07,207 --> 00:05:09,641 So there were a few flashpoints. 92 00:05:10,087 --> 00:05:13,796 COMBE: He never really accepted Henric as being a good director 93 00:05:13,887 --> 00:05:17,038 and tended to tell Henric what he was going to do. 94 00:05:17,127 --> 00:05:20,802 And it started to have an effect on Henric. 95 00:05:22,167 --> 00:05:23,885 It became quite stressful. 96 00:05:30,887 --> 00:05:35,165 FORD: "Reign of Terror" was, in fact, quite unique at the time 97 00:05:35,247 --> 00:05:39,365 because it was the first time they ever used a location shot. 98 00:05:39,807 --> 00:05:43,402 Not that we ever went. We just stayed in nasty, hot studios. But there you go. 99 00:05:43,487 --> 00:05:46,957 The locations were fairly simple to find, 100 00:05:47,047 --> 00:05:53,885 except that one was of the Doctor walking down a French lane. 101 00:05:53,967 --> 00:05:56,800 We needed to find something looking French. 102 00:05:57,607 --> 00:06:02,761 And Henric struck on the idea of finding an avenue of poplar trees, 103 00:06:03,447 --> 00:06:05,199 so that he could walk down. 104 00:06:05,287 --> 00:06:09,246 Well, it isn't easy finding an avenue of poplar trees in England, 105 00:06:09,327 --> 00:06:10,646 I can tell you. 106 00:06:10,727 --> 00:06:12,877 I searched high and low. 107 00:06:13,607 --> 00:06:17,680 And so, in the end I did. It was up near Denham. 108 00:06:18,207 --> 00:06:21,244 I don't know whether it's still there but it was also, it was a rough track. 109 00:06:21,327 --> 00:06:22,840 It was just... It was perfect. 110 00:06:22,927 --> 00:06:26,044 They didn't want to release Bill from rehearsals. 111 00:06:26,127 --> 00:06:28,482 So they got an actor called Brian Proudfoot 112 00:06:28,567 --> 00:06:31,684 to come and be him walking along a French country lane. 113 00:06:32,287 --> 00:06:35,643 And this meant, of course, he had to get Bill's walk. 114 00:06:36,527 --> 00:06:39,917 And this meant, of course, that he had to observe Bill. 115 00:06:40,007 --> 00:06:42,805 And he came into rehearsals, watched Bill, 116 00:06:43,047 --> 00:06:45,720 how he walked and his mannerisms and everything. 117 00:06:45,807 --> 00:06:47,525 FORD: Bill thought it was an absolute pain 118 00:06:47,607 --> 00:06:50,121 because he just wanted to get on with doing what we were doing. 119 00:06:50,207 --> 00:06:53,404 And Brian was very diligently shadowing him wherever he went. 120 00:06:53,487 --> 00:06:57,526 And Bill was swatting him like a fly. "Go! Out of the way! Go away! 121 00:06:57,607 --> 00:06:59,916 "Take him away from me!" 122 00:07:00,247 --> 00:07:03,364 Anyway, in the end he realised that he was trying to do his job. 123 00:07:03,447 --> 00:07:07,122 And he was, of course, as he always was, for me, anyway, very helpful. 124 00:07:10,807 --> 00:07:15,244 COMBE: We filmed Brian being the Doctor in all his gear, 125 00:07:15,327 --> 00:07:19,400 walking down various lanes and in fields and things like that. 126 00:07:19,567 --> 00:07:21,364 You would not know unless you were told 127 00:07:21,447 --> 00:07:25,122 that it was Brian and not Bill doing it. 128 00:07:25,607 --> 00:07:29,566 There was a lot of outdoor scenes done in the studio in Lime Grove. 129 00:07:29,647 --> 00:07:33,276 But these, actually on location, brought it alive. 130 00:07:35,167 --> 00:07:38,398 FORD: When Bill was marching towards Paris, 131 00:07:38,647 --> 00:07:41,366 he had to stop every so often to have a rest. 132 00:07:41,447 --> 00:07:45,360 And on one of these stops he was supposed to part the bushes, 133 00:07:45,727 --> 00:07:50,243 and, seeing through the bushes, he was going to see Paris in the distance. 134 00:07:50,487 --> 00:07:54,605 And to achieve this, they made the most adorable little model of Paris. 135 00:07:54,687 --> 00:07:56,518 It was just wonderful. 136 00:07:57,207 --> 00:07:59,960 And in the end, I don't think they used it. 137 00:08:00,047 --> 00:08:02,561 But I was so enthusiastic about it, they gave it to me. 138 00:08:03,287 --> 00:08:07,200 And I'd still have it to this day 'cause I really cherished it. I loved it. 139 00:08:07,287 --> 00:08:10,324 But I had a very enthusiastic cleaning lady at the time. 140 00:08:10,407 --> 00:08:13,240 And I kept this model on top of a wardrobe. 141 00:08:13,567 --> 00:08:15,398 And I thought that would be the safest place for it. 142 00:08:15,487 --> 00:08:18,160 It was gathering dust, but it was safe. 143 00:08:18,527 --> 00:08:21,485 But she decided that she was going to clean the top of the wardrobe 144 00:08:21,567 --> 00:08:23,478 and without seeing if there was anything on top, 145 00:08:23,567 --> 00:08:26,320 she got her long duster and... (WHOOSHES) 146 00:08:26,687 --> 00:08:28,882 And that was the end of my beautiful little set. 147 00:08:28,967 --> 00:08:32,118 And it was so sweet. It had little opening and closing doors and windows. 148 00:08:32,207 --> 00:08:33,481 And oh, it was lovely. 149 00:08:35,167 --> 00:08:41,879 The sign of Le Chien Gris. 150 00:08:42,207 --> 00:08:43,879 Le Chien Gris. 151 00:08:45,927 --> 00:08:49,636 RUSSELL: We were filming a story that was mainly set in France. 152 00:08:50,687 --> 00:08:55,920 And I was going to France on holiday for two weeks in the middle of it. 153 00:08:56,247 --> 00:08:58,477 So I didn't know quite how I was going to manage that. 154 00:08:58,607 --> 00:09:03,681 So they filmed him in the prison on a set in Ealing Studios. 155 00:09:04,247 --> 00:09:07,239 And this meant that they could intersperse little bits of it 156 00:09:07,327 --> 00:09:11,286 where they needed to, to cover the fact that he wasn't actually there. 157 00:09:11,367 --> 00:09:17,556 It also meant that they lost one or two opportunities of doing shots of him 158 00:09:17,647 --> 00:09:20,445 where you would anticipate that there would be a shot of him. 159 00:09:20,527 --> 00:09:24,645 As when Jackie and I came into the prison, 160 00:09:25,247 --> 00:09:27,203 and, of course, we were screaming, "Ian! Lan!" 161 00:09:27,487 --> 00:09:29,205 - Lan! Lan! - Go away. 162 00:09:29,287 --> 00:09:33,280 And normally, one would expect him to come, "Here I am!" 163 00:09:33,367 --> 00:09:34,595 Up to the little grill. 164 00:09:34,687 --> 00:09:37,724 And, of course, he wasn't there. Because he wasn't there. 165 00:09:37,807 --> 00:09:39,843 I told you to stay back by the wall. 166 00:09:39,927 --> 00:09:41,485 There's nothing to interest you. 167 00:09:41,567 --> 00:09:47,563 I was quite surprised, actually, when I re-played the DVDs 168 00:09:48,407 --> 00:09:52,923 and saw that I was in all the episodes. I thought, "Well, that was pretty good." 169 00:09:59,847 --> 00:10:01,565 There we are. Home. 170 00:10:01,727 --> 00:10:05,766 I think the first four episodes were filmed at Lime Grove 171 00:10:05,847 --> 00:10:08,361 and the last two up at Television Centre. 172 00:10:08,447 --> 00:10:12,076 RUSSELL: Lime Grove was this warren of studios. 173 00:10:12,447 --> 00:10:14,199 Some were enormous. 174 00:10:14,287 --> 00:10:16,084 But most of them were very small. 175 00:10:16,167 --> 00:10:19,125 And the ones for drama were very small, indeed. 176 00:10:19,207 --> 00:10:22,643 And because cameras were so much bigger in those days, 177 00:10:22,727 --> 00:10:26,197 we had to make the best of it. 178 00:10:26,287 --> 00:10:30,439 The one we worked in was Studio G, which was long and narrow, 179 00:10:31,287 --> 00:10:33,005 to get sets in was not easy. 180 00:10:33,087 --> 00:10:35,760 FORD: Very cramped. Very hot. 181 00:10:36,207 --> 00:10:38,767 And there were, in fact, sprinklers 182 00:10:38,847 --> 00:10:42,681 which were to come on if the heat reached a certain temperature. 183 00:10:42,767 --> 00:10:45,645 And as the heat was always reaching more than a certain temperature, 184 00:10:45,727 --> 00:10:48,321 the blooming sprinklers were coming on the whole time. 185 00:10:48,407 --> 00:10:51,524 And they did actually come on in the middle of filming. 186 00:10:51,607 --> 00:10:55,441 So we had to stop that, all get dry, clean up the set and start again. 187 00:10:55,527 --> 00:10:59,281 And as we had very little time anyway, this wasn't a very good thing. 188 00:10:59,367 --> 00:11:03,155 And we were... Bill especially was absolutely furious. 189 00:11:10,327 --> 00:11:15,242 The most amazing thing with "The Reign of Terror" was the sets 190 00:11:15,327 --> 00:11:17,238 and what they managed to do at Lime Grove, 191 00:11:17,327 --> 00:11:19,397 even though we had a very confined space. 192 00:11:20,287 --> 00:11:25,077 RUSSELL: The sets, when we were in Paris, were a bit of a mystery to me, 193 00:11:25,167 --> 00:11:28,398 because it seemed that we were always in very narrow streets. 194 00:11:28,487 --> 00:11:30,557 And my own memory of going to Paris 195 00:11:30,647 --> 00:11:34,435 is always of great big avenues and boulevards 196 00:11:34,527 --> 00:11:38,281 and trees and things like that. But all that was not there. 197 00:11:38,727 --> 00:11:43,005 But I suppose it was the size of the studio 198 00:11:43,087 --> 00:11:45,043 that dictated what they could do. 199 00:11:45,127 --> 00:11:47,357 The attention to detail was incredible. 200 00:11:48,407 --> 00:11:53,606 I mean, lovely, lovely exteriors and amazing interiors. 201 00:11:53,687 --> 00:11:57,919 Whether it set a new standard, I don't know, but it should have done. 202 00:12:00,527 --> 00:12:05,237 I first became conscious that Henric was having a struggle 203 00:12:06,047 --> 00:12:08,766 I would say probably round about Episode 2. 204 00:12:08,847 --> 00:12:12,157 He was used to having rehearsal time in the theatre. 205 00:12:12,407 --> 00:12:17,322 And having actors performing in a logical sequence of events 206 00:12:17,407 --> 00:12:19,557 in a perfectly normal play. 207 00:12:20,247 --> 00:12:21,726 And we were doing none of these things 208 00:12:21,807 --> 00:12:25,083 and I think he just didn't understand what the hell was going on. 209 00:12:25,167 --> 00:12:28,204 His way of directing actors 210 00:12:29,327 --> 00:12:30,476 was limited. 211 00:12:30,927 --> 00:12:32,645 Oh, what's the use? 212 00:12:33,007 --> 00:12:34,520 We'll never get out of this dreadful place. 213 00:12:34,607 --> 00:12:36,245 Oh, you mustn't lose heart, Susan. 214 00:12:36,327 --> 00:12:37,555 I'm not going to fool myself. 215 00:12:37,727 --> 00:12:40,924 He never really seemed to give me any direction 216 00:12:41,007 --> 00:12:43,475 as to how he wanted a scene played. 217 00:12:43,687 --> 00:12:45,040 He let me get on with it. 218 00:12:45,127 --> 00:12:48,039 But then he came up and criticised what I was doing. 219 00:12:48,127 --> 00:12:51,563 For instance, there was a scene where I was in prison. 220 00:12:52,447 --> 00:12:53,766 I was ill. 221 00:12:54,567 --> 00:12:57,957 I was about to be decapitated by the guillotine. 222 00:12:58,047 --> 00:13:01,483 And furthermore, there were rats and we were above a sewer. 223 00:13:01,567 --> 00:13:05,116 So I think I was entitled to be a little bit sad about the whole thing. 224 00:13:05,207 --> 00:13:06,765 - (GASPS) - What is it? 225 00:13:06,847 --> 00:13:08,360 - Rats! - Rats? 226 00:13:10,287 --> 00:13:12,243 They must have smelled the food. 227 00:13:12,327 --> 00:13:14,397 Barbara, there's rats down there. 228 00:13:14,487 --> 00:13:16,045 He came up to me and he said... 229 00:13:16,127 --> 00:13:18,766 (THICK HUNGARIAN ACCENT) "Would you not be so maudlin?" 230 00:13:18,847 --> 00:13:22,123 And I said, " Sorry, Henric. Didn't quite get that." 231 00:13:22,447 --> 00:13:24,756 "So maudlin. You're so maudlin." 232 00:13:25,567 --> 00:13:27,364 And somebody came up and translated and said, 233 00:13:27,447 --> 00:13:31,156 "He's saying he doesn't want you to be so maudlin." 234 00:13:31,927 --> 00:13:34,202 "So maudlin?" I said, " Henric! 235 00:13:34,847 --> 00:13:39,477 "I'm all these things, I'm about to be killed. I'm terrified. I'm ill. 236 00:13:39,607 --> 00:13:42,121 "I think I'm entitled to be maudlin." 237 00:13:42,727 --> 00:13:44,445 There you go. That was he. 238 00:13:44,527 --> 00:13:49,317 He had the basics of how to do camera scripts and do a camera plan. 239 00:13:49,767 --> 00:13:51,997 But there were lots of problems. 240 00:13:52,087 --> 00:13:54,806 Cables getting tangled up and things like that. 241 00:13:54,887 --> 00:13:57,003 Too dark to see anything, Doctor. 242 00:13:57,087 --> 00:13:58,918 FORD: It was problematical. 243 00:13:59,007 --> 00:14:02,238 I mean, luckily we were supposed to be under a lot of strain. 244 00:14:02,327 --> 00:14:04,079 Because we were. 245 00:14:04,847 --> 00:14:09,204 And never too sure whether poor old Henric was going to lose the plot. 246 00:14:10,447 --> 00:14:12,165 And there always seemed to be quite a lot of noise 247 00:14:12,247 --> 00:14:14,807 coming from the control box, I seem to remember. 248 00:14:14,887 --> 00:14:16,400 People shouting at each other. 249 00:14:16,567 --> 00:14:19,923 That wasn't so. It was a very happy crew usually on Doctor Who. 250 00:14:25,687 --> 00:14:27,598 COMBE: We came to Episode 3, 251 00:14:27,687 --> 00:14:32,397 which was where the stress factor really hit Henric quite hard. 252 00:14:32,647 --> 00:14:37,198 I loved the recording of Episode 3, because I'm crazy about horses. 253 00:14:37,287 --> 00:14:40,245 So I was thrilled that there was going to be a horse on set. 254 00:14:40,327 --> 00:14:42,761 And I spent most of my time with the horse, 255 00:14:42,847 --> 00:14:46,123 which means I probably missed an awful lot of the craziness 256 00:14:46,207 --> 00:14:47,560 that was going on that day. 257 00:14:48,207 --> 00:14:50,960 Whoa! Whoa. 258 00:14:51,447 --> 00:14:55,440 COMBE: You don't really realise how large a horse is, and a cart. 259 00:14:55,647 --> 00:14:58,036 In a small studio, limited space, 260 00:15:00,047 --> 00:15:03,403 you could hardly get it walking at all down the thing. 261 00:15:03,487 --> 00:15:05,125 - It is them? - Yes. 262 00:15:05,247 --> 00:15:06,965 It looks as if they've had some trouble with the horse. 263 00:15:07,047 --> 00:15:09,925 COMBE: You had to bring the horse in separately, then bring the cart in. 264 00:15:10,007 --> 00:15:12,680 It was very stressful. 265 00:15:12,847 --> 00:15:15,839 It was stressful for me on the floor, as a PA, 266 00:15:15,927 --> 00:15:18,157 running the floor but... 267 00:15:18,567 --> 00:15:22,162 for Henric as well, I think it really built up there. 268 00:15:22,727 --> 00:15:24,558 I think the horse has thrown a shoe. 269 00:15:24,647 --> 00:15:26,478 The moment they start to unhitch it, we'll make a run for it. 270 00:15:26,567 --> 00:15:29,525 The horse was absolutely beautifully behaved. 271 00:15:29,767 --> 00:15:32,042 Except I think he did do a poo. 272 00:15:32,567 --> 00:15:33,795 That was only to be expected, 273 00:15:33,887 --> 00:15:36,799 with all the crashes and bangs and all the sense of tension. 274 00:15:36,887 --> 00:15:39,162 He probably picked up our feelings of stress. 275 00:15:39,407 --> 00:15:40,476 I don't feel very well. 276 00:15:40,567 --> 00:15:42,956 Look, I'll help you, but you must make an effort. 277 00:15:43,047 --> 00:15:45,277 Round about sort of tea time, 278 00:15:47,047 --> 00:15:50,084 there was a pause in the production 279 00:15:50,167 --> 00:15:52,476 and there was a silence up in the gallery. 280 00:15:53,527 --> 00:15:55,995 And I said, "What's going on up there?" 281 00:15:56,087 --> 00:16:00,763 And Ann, the Production Secretary, said, "Tim, I think you'd better come up." 282 00:16:03,047 --> 00:16:06,881 So I said, " Come on. We'll all take tea. Take an early tea, everybody." 283 00:16:06,967 --> 00:16:09,561 So we broke for tea. I went upstairs. 284 00:16:10,207 --> 00:16:14,246 And Henric had collapsed on the floor outside the gallery. 285 00:16:14,487 --> 00:16:17,081 There seemed to be people running around in all directions. 286 00:16:17,167 --> 00:16:19,840 And every time I was trying to ask, "What's going on?" 287 00:16:19,927 --> 00:16:22,805 It was "No, no, no, no." And nobody would talk to me 288 00:16:22,887 --> 00:16:25,799 because they were all desperate to try and get things sorted out. 289 00:16:25,927 --> 00:16:28,885 Obviously, the medical people had been called. 290 00:16:28,967 --> 00:16:32,596 A doctor had been called from the Centre, Television Centre. 291 00:16:33,967 --> 00:16:35,161 Henric had recovered, 292 00:16:35,247 --> 00:16:39,525 but he was lying, scratching his head, not knowing where the hell he was. 293 00:16:39,607 --> 00:16:40,881 He had just passed out. 294 00:16:41,007 --> 00:16:43,805 I heard afterwards, I wasn't aware at the time, 295 00:16:43,887 --> 00:16:47,482 but it seems that the director, Henric, had collapsed. 296 00:16:48,007 --> 00:16:50,123 And so how are we going to continue? 297 00:16:50,207 --> 00:16:53,597 I told Ann, " Get on to the producer, Verity Lambert." 298 00:16:53,727 --> 00:16:56,719 So Verity came over straight away. 299 00:16:56,807 --> 00:17:00,800 She said, " Well, I can't run a studio. I've never run a studio in my life. 300 00:17:00,887 --> 00:17:04,197 "Obviously, Henric can't run it. So we need to get someone in. 301 00:17:04,767 --> 00:17:06,120 "What about you, Tim?" 302 00:17:06,207 --> 00:17:10,405 I said, " Somebody who's been in the BBC for 18 months?" 303 00:17:10,927 --> 00:17:14,203 Actually, I probably could have managed. 304 00:17:14,487 --> 00:17:18,162 Because I did know the shots. I did know what was involved. 305 00:17:18,647 --> 00:17:23,084 But I knew my AFM had a lot of work involved, 306 00:17:23,167 --> 00:17:26,159 with horses and props and everything else. 307 00:17:26,247 --> 00:17:27,760 And prompting, as well. 308 00:17:27,847 --> 00:17:30,122 So, I said, "No, I don't think I could do it." 309 00:17:30,207 --> 00:17:33,563 It seemed to me that there were lots of people telling us what to do. 310 00:17:33,647 --> 00:17:37,481 I don't remember one particular person just taking over. 311 00:17:38,927 --> 00:17:44,126 It seemed that we were getting used to Tim, I think, telling us what to do. 312 00:17:44,727 --> 00:17:47,560 And then Verity was telling us what to do. 313 00:17:47,807 --> 00:17:50,037 And then somebody else came and told us what to do. 314 00:17:50,367 --> 00:17:52,927 Verity didn't do it. I didn't do it. 315 00:17:53,127 --> 00:17:55,357 So I think John Gorrie did it. 316 00:17:55,487 --> 00:17:58,320 The other possibility that they could've called in 317 00:17:58,407 --> 00:18:00,363 was the Associate Producer, 318 00:18:00,447 --> 00:18:04,520 I think he was called the Associate Producer, was Mervyn Pinfield. 319 00:18:04,607 --> 00:18:06,563 And Mervyn had directed. 320 00:18:06,727 --> 00:18:10,242 In fact, I'd worked with him when he was a director. 321 00:18:10,567 --> 00:18:13,161 And so he knew how to run the studio. 322 00:18:13,247 --> 00:18:17,365 So there is a possibility that Mervyn Pinfield, 323 00:18:17,447 --> 00:18:21,360 who's no longer on this Earth, I think, he's on another planet, 324 00:18:22,927 --> 00:18:24,599 could have directed it. 325 00:18:24,687 --> 00:18:28,157 In my mind, that day was all a jumble, but we got through it somehow. 326 00:18:28,247 --> 00:18:30,602 That was a very stressful day. 327 00:18:32,847 --> 00:18:35,998 When I came back from holiday, 328 00:18:38,407 --> 00:18:44,562 of course, Carole and Jackie told me what had happened to Henric 329 00:18:45,567 --> 00:18:48,240 and how he'd been taken ill 330 00:18:48,687 --> 00:18:53,636 and someone else had had to come in and direct the scenes for him. 331 00:18:53,927 --> 00:18:55,804 That was... I was sorry. 332 00:18:55,887 --> 00:19:00,119 I tried to find out if he was still alive and ticking and was he well, 333 00:19:00,207 --> 00:19:02,721 you know, I thought it rather awful. 334 00:19:02,927 --> 00:19:05,885 We started rehearsals of the next episode, 335 00:19:05,967 --> 00:19:08,800 and before we started I met up with Henric 336 00:19:09,087 --> 00:19:11,317 and had a man-to-man talk. 337 00:19:12,167 --> 00:19:15,682 And I said, " You're finding it a hell of a strain, this, aren't you? 338 00:19:15,767 --> 00:19:17,120 "Let's be honest. 339 00:19:17,207 --> 00:19:20,722 "Can I help you in any way? Can I do the camera plan, for a start? 340 00:19:20,807 --> 00:19:23,924 "I can do camera plan standing on my head." 341 00:19:24,527 --> 00:19:26,802 He said, " Oh, Tim. That would be great if you could." 342 00:19:28,207 --> 00:19:30,084 So I said, "Right. I'll do that." 343 00:19:30,167 --> 00:19:33,762 I said, " What about anything else? Can I help you with camera scripts? 344 00:19:33,847 --> 00:19:36,486 "You tell me what the shot is 345 00:19:36,567 --> 00:19:40,640 "and I'll take it down and we can work together like that." 346 00:19:40,807 --> 00:19:44,641 So we decided that this would be the best way forward. 347 00:19:44,727 --> 00:19:46,638 I would take more responsibility, 348 00:19:46,727 --> 00:19:50,766 take some of the responsibility that Henric has for directing. 349 00:19:50,847 --> 00:19:52,838 I would take some of that responsibility on. 350 00:19:57,287 --> 00:20:00,882 As far as Bill was concerned, he did calm right down. 351 00:20:01,367 --> 00:20:04,564 I think he realised that Henric was under a lot of stress 352 00:20:04,647 --> 00:20:07,241 and maybe he had something to contribute to it. 353 00:20:07,327 --> 00:20:11,445 And we talked about it then, brought it up. 354 00:20:11,967 --> 00:20:16,757 And he said, "What was that all about with Henric?" 355 00:20:17,607 --> 00:20:19,837 And I said, "Well, he collapsed in the studio." 356 00:20:19,927 --> 00:20:23,715 - "I heard that he did." - I said, "Well, he did." 357 00:20:23,927 --> 00:20:25,565 "Gosh", he said. 358 00:20:26,047 --> 00:20:28,686 "Is he going to carry on? Are we going to get somebody else in?" 359 00:20:28,767 --> 00:20:30,598 "No," I said, " we're not. 360 00:20:30,687 --> 00:20:33,042 "Verity's decided to stick with it. 361 00:20:33,127 --> 00:20:35,402 "And we're going to carry on with Henric. 362 00:20:35,847 --> 00:20:38,884 "And Henric will be all right. But, you know, just ease off on him. 363 00:20:38,967 --> 00:20:40,480 "Just be understanding." 364 00:20:40,567 --> 00:20:44,196 So he did. He was very good. The rest of the cast were splendid. 365 00:20:44,287 --> 00:20:47,484 And from then on, actually, things got much better. 366 00:20:48,047 --> 00:20:51,562 Everybody lived in fear yesterday of that man and today... 367 00:20:51,647 --> 00:20:52,875 Let's go, Susan. Let's go. 368 00:20:52,967 --> 00:20:54,764 At this point in the story it gets very happy, 369 00:20:54,847 --> 00:20:58,635 because we say, " Bye-bye, Lime Grove. Hello, TV Centre." 370 00:20:58,727 --> 00:21:01,799 And it made everybody very happy, very grateful, 371 00:21:01,887 --> 00:21:04,845 and probably we gave better performances because of it. 372 00:21:05,087 --> 00:21:06,645 You had all the facilities. 373 00:21:06,767 --> 00:21:11,682 You had a bigger studio, so you could make the sets a little bit bigger. 374 00:21:11,767 --> 00:21:14,361 You had more room to manoeuvre your cameras. 375 00:21:14,447 --> 00:21:17,917 And it was so much easier. 376 00:21:18,687 --> 00:21:20,484 - You're through. - Yes, I know. 377 00:21:20,567 --> 00:21:23,559 FORD: We could breathe! It was light and airy. 378 00:21:23,687 --> 00:21:27,646 Really high, high ceilings and plenty of space to do everything. 379 00:21:27,847 --> 00:21:30,725 And you could see them in the control box beaming, 380 00:21:30,807 --> 00:21:32,240 which was so nice, 381 00:21:32,327 --> 00:21:34,795 because I think they had very little room in Lime Grove 382 00:21:34,887 --> 00:21:37,037 and they were bumping into each other all the time. 383 00:21:37,127 --> 00:21:40,483 And I don't think they had all the monitors they wanted in Lime Grove, 384 00:21:40,567 --> 00:21:42,717 so they couldn't get the shots that they wanted. 385 00:21:42,807 --> 00:21:44,126 So we had more of everything. 386 00:21:52,367 --> 00:21:56,645 I think Henric was mighty relieved to have finished it. 387 00:21:57,647 --> 00:22:00,684 And I think probably Verity was mighty relieved that one was over. 388 00:22:00,767 --> 00:22:01,802 The first series. 389 00:22:01,887 --> 00:22:06,244 This was the last story in the first series ever of Doctor Who. 390 00:22:09,287 --> 00:22:12,404 I must say, as much as I enjoyed doing "Reign of Terror" 391 00:22:12,487 --> 00:22:14,717 because it was a period piece, 392 00:22:15,087 --> 00:22:17,555 it was a huge relief to get to the end of it. 393 00:22:17,647 --> 00:22:20,445 (LAUGHS) It seemed to last forever. 394 00:22:20,687 --> 00:22:24,316 It seemed to last much, much longer than the six episodes. 395 00:22:25,167 --> 00:22:30,116 I think Henric, certainly by the end, had got more confident. 396 00:22:30,687 --> 00:22:32,803 So he was happier, and he... 397 00:22:32,887 --> 00:22:37,517 I think he was hoping he'd go on and work more at the BBC. 398 00:22:37,607 --> 00:22:40,246 But as far as I know, that was the last one. 399 00:22:40,327 --> 00:22:44,957 I believe he went and directed some Emmerdales or something like that. 400 00:22:45,047 --> 00:22:48,881 But for the most part, that was the last I ever saw of Henric. 401 00:22:48,967 --> 00:22:52,118 But he was a far, far happier man. 402 00:22:52,207 --> 00:22:54,163 The stress had gone. 403 00:22:54,247 --> 00:22:55,760 Lime Grove had gone. 404 00:22:56,367 --> 00:22:58,881 And Bill was good. 405 00:22:59,007 --> 00:23:03,603 And it was, on the whole, not a bad series of episodes. 406 00:23:05,727 --> 00:23:07,240 (WOMAN READING) 407 00:23:19,527 --> 00:23:20,676 Where do you all come from? 408 00:23:20,767 --> 00:23:22,883 - Here they are! - He's got Susan! 409 00:23:22,967 --> 00:23:27,722 RUSSELL: Watching it now, I felt it had a kind of quality which I liked. 410 00:23:28,007 --> 00:23:32,922 Everyone was extremely serious. They were doing the job well. 411 00:23:33,007 --> 00:23:36,477 The other actors were good. And... 412 00:23:37,447 --> 00:23:42,680 So, it was, to me, a good example of the work that we did. 413 00:23:42,767 --> 00:23:47,761 FORD: I mean, full marks to Henric. There were some moments of real quality. 414 00:23:48,007 --> 00:23:52,523 I mean, I thought particularly the rendition of the guillotine. 415 00:23:53,167 --> 00:23:57,206 And he really gave a sense of horror, the horror of it, 416 00:23:57,287 --> 00:23:58,766 of what was about to happen. 417 00:23:59,287 --> 00:24:01,278 Something really very, very nasty. 418 00:24:01,527 --> 00:24:02,755 I hope they have a pleasant journey. 419 00:24:02,847 --> 00:24:05,441 So do I. But to where, Jules? 420 00:24:06,447 --> 00:24:08,597 Funny, I get the impression 421 00:24:08,687 --> 00:24:11,485 they don't know where they're heading for. 422 00:24:11,967 --> 00:24:14,481 Come to that, do any of us? 423 00:24:14,927 --> 00:24:18,636 Working on "The Reign of Terror" certainly helped me 424 00:24:19,007 --> 00:24:21,567 in my career, no doubt about it. 425 00:24:22,567 --> 00:24:24,876 By doing these additional responsibilities, 426 00:24:24,967 --> 00:24:28,403 I found myself quite capable of doing them. 427 00:24:28,807 --> 00:24:31,685 I enjoyed doing them. I liked the challenge. 428 00:24:32,487 --> 00:24:34,205 I wanted to do more of it. 429 00:24:34,287 --> 00:24:36,926 And it helped me become a director, really. 430 00:24:37,127 --> 00:24:39,880 Au revoir, Monsieur Capi.