是 首相
第二季 第五集
翻|校|監 草草
時間軸 想念Gallifrey的Wholock
后期 8T
還政于民
-早 伯納德 -早 首相 - Morning, Bernard. - Morning, Prime Minister.
您五分鐘后得去電視演播室 You have to leave for the TV studios in five minutes.
我準備好了 I'm ready.
您還記得采訪主題嗎 Do you remember what the interview's about?
地方政府 Local government.
一件我基本上無計可施的事 The one thing I can do practically nothing about.
這些討厭的地方議會里 These wretched councils are run by
都是一群聰明過頭的腐敗的白癡 a bunch of corrupt morons who are too clever by half.
白癡至多也就能聰明不過半 The most a moron can be is less clever by half.
我是說這些地方議員畢竟是 I mean, they are democratically elected,
民主選舉出來的 是吧 these councillors, aren't they?
要看你如何定義民主了 Depends how you define democracy.
只有大概25%的人會在地方選舉中投票 Only about 25% of people ever vote in a local election.
而投票的人也只把它當做威斯敏斯特 Those who do simply regard it as a popularity pole
真正政治領袖的人氣民調 for the real political leaders in Westminster.
但地方議員仍是民選代表 是吧 But councillors are still representatives, aren't they?
那他們代表了誰呢 Well, who do they represent?
沒人知道自己的地方議員是誰 I mean, nobody knows who their councillor is.
你知道自己的地方議員是誰嗎 Do you know who yours councillor is?
-不 -這是當然了 - No. - Well, no, of course you don't.
地方議員們也知道 The councillors know this,
于是他們這四年里不需要承擔任何責任 so they spend four totally unaccountable years
還能靠公款補助滿足自大 on a publicly subsidised ego trip.
他們毀了內城 They ruin the inner cities,
他們任由學校凋敝 they let the schools fall to bits,
他們打擊警方士氣 they demoralise the police
還破壞法律和秩序 然后還怪罪我 and undermine law and order, then they blame me.
您要這么說嗎 Will you say all that?
我剛不都說了嗎 你沒聽到嗎 I've just said it. Didn't you hear me?
-不 我是指在電視上 -那當然不了 - No, I mean on television. - No, of course not.
會讓人覺得我小肚雞腸 It'd make me sound intolerant.
杭茲沃斯地方議會會長 The leader of the Houndsworth Council,
這個該死的女人艾格妮絲·摩豪斯 this bloody Agnes Moorhouse woman,
威脅要不給警察撥款 has threaten to withhold funds from the police
并禁止他們進入地方議會地產 and ban them from council property.
她不能那么做 Well, she can't do that.
有違《1964年警察法》第五節 Section 5 of the Police Act, 1964.
地方議會必須提供足夠且有效的警力 Councils have to provide an adequate and efficient police force.
那里都寫了 It's all in there.
是啊 可她說 除非警隊里有一半黑人 Yeah. Well, she says that until the police force is 50% black,
否則就不算足夠且有效 it can't be adequate or efficient.
這她無法證明 She can't prove that.
很遺憾 他們的本地警隊 Unfortunately, her own police force
剛好是全國最不稱職而低效的 is the most inadequate and least efficient in the country.
大家都很害怕 如果鬧上法庭 And everybody's terrified that if take her to court,
她還真能證明 she will prove it.
漢弗萊 我們得想想辦法解決這個 Humphrey, we've got to do something about this
艾格妮絲·摩豪斯 Agnes Moorhouse woman.
她的區基本上變成禁行區了 Her borough's practically a no-go area.
是啊 首相 Yes, indeed, Prime Minister.
那怎么辦呢 Well, what?
不如寫一篇措辭強烈的信吧 How about a strongly worded letter?
然后得到一封措辭更加強烈的回復信 What? And get a even more strongly worded letter in reply,
還抄送給所有報紙嗎 copied to all the newspapers?
那就是自討麻煩 Only be asking for trouble.
您可以跟她提法律問題 Well, you could draw her attention to the law.
她就是個律師 伯納德 She is a lawyer, Bernard.
鉆法律漏洞是她的本職工作 Getting round the law is what she's paid for.
何不無視她呢 Well, why not just ignore her?
然后等著大家說 What? And have everyone say
我把內城的控制權交給了 that I'd handed over control of the inner cities
激進的瘋子嗎 to the militant loonies?
她就是個瘋婆子 漢弗萊 She's a wild woman, Humphrey.
是啊 首相 Yes, indeed, Prime Minister.
不 得找人去跟她談談 No, someone's got to have a word with her.
指出安全隱患 Point out the security implications.
-找一名司法人員嗎 -不 - One of the law officers? - No.
不能弄成政治對峙 得找個文官去 Can't be a political confrontation. Has to be an official.
一個負責安全事務的人 Somebody with responsibility for security.
一個負責... Somebody with responsibility...
不不不 首相 No, no, no, no, Prime Minister, no!
她是個惡魔 She's a monster!
不不 No, no, no.
這該交給蘇格蘭場 內政部 I-I-it's up to Scotland Yard, the Home Office,
安全部門 政治保安處... the Security Branch, Special Branch, I mean, the...
軍情五處 大法官 Ml5, the Lord Chancellor,
環境部 Department of the Environment...
-白魚總會 -白魚...不不 - And the White Fish Authority? - White Fish... No, no, no!
難道不是你負責協調所有安全部門嗎 Don't you coordinate all the security services?
是 當然 Well, yes, yes, of course...
還是我們該把這份責任交給別人 Or should we give that responsibility to someone else?
不不 No, no, no, no, no.
那就說好了 私下談談 That's agreed, then. A quiet word.
達成一份君子協議 Come to a gentlemen's agreement.
但她不是君子啊 But she's not a gentleman!
她連淑女都算不上 She's not even a lady!
我要你去應付她 I want YOU to handle her.
走吧 伯納德 Come on, Bernard.
應付她 Handle her?
請進 Come in.
艾格妮絲·摩豪斯來見您 漢弗萊爵士 Agnes Moorhouse to see you, Sir Humphrey.
好 Right.
好女士 見到你真高興 快請進 My dear lady, how very nice to meet you. Do come in.
您來坐下吧 Now, won't you come and sit down?
那個... Now...
好吧 Right...
給摩豪斯小姐端杯茶來 Would you get Miss Moorhouse a cup of tea.
還是摩豪斯太太 Or is it Mrs Moorhouse?
你真的關心我的婚嫁狀況嗎 Is my marital status really your concern?
不不 No, no, no, no.
就是... It's just...
我就是... You know, I was just...
在考慮是否... really worried about whether the...
你可以給...她端杯茶嗎 would you get... you know, her a cup of tea?
那我該怎么稱呼你 摩豪斯女士 Now, what should I call you? Ms Moorhouse?
你可以喊我艾格妮絲 You can call me Agnes.
-艾格妮絲 -我怎么稱呼你呢 - Agnes. - What shall I call you?
你可以喊我漢弗萊爵士 Well, you can call me Sir Humphrey.
好女士 Now, my dear lady...
聽著 我才不是你的"好女士" Look, I'm not your "dear lady".
少對我居高臨下 也少來性別歧視那套 Don't patronise me and cut out the sexist crap, OK?
好 艾格妮絲 OK, Agnes.
我之所以想跟你見個面 Now, the reason I wanted us to have this little meeting
是因為我希望我們能相互理解 was because I want us to try and understand one another.
我相信我們的想法基本上是一致的 Basically, I'm sure we're in agreement.
是嗎 Really?
當然了 你對英國該如何治理 Yeah. Well, obviously, you have your own views
有著自己的看法 about how Britain should be run, but
但我相信我們在根本的秩序和權威上 I'm sure we agree on a fundamental basis
是持相同觀點的 of order and authority.
你只說對了一半 That's half true.
對了一半 Half true?
那是你的觀點 不是我的 You agree, I don't.
但這顯而易見 But it's obvious!
你能在現有體系下得利才覺得這顯而易見 It's obvious if you've got it made under the present system,
于是便想利用權威來保護自己的特權 then you want to use authority to preserve your privileges.
可無家可歸者呢 What about the homeless,
失業者呢 what about the unemployed,
窮人呢 what about the poor people?
是啊 我很了解他們 Yeah. I know all about them.
是嗎 Really?
你都了解什么 What do you know?
我讀過各種刊載論文 I've read all the published papers.
看過各種統計數據 I've seen all the statistics.
我讀過各種官方報告 I've read all the offical reports.
相信我 好女士...艾格妮絲 Believe me, dear lady... Agnes, I... I...
-我非常了解他們 -好啊 - I do know all about them. - Fine.
半磅人造黃油多少錢 What does half a pound of margarine cost?
什么 What?
半磅人造黃油多少錢 What does half a pound of margarine cost?
我怎么知道 How should I know?
20便士 20p.
-20便士 -2.4磅 我不知道 - 20p?! - Well, 2 pound 40! I don't know!
好啊 Right.
你怎么可能知道 Why should you?
社會保障辦公室幾點開門 What time do Social Security offices open?
如果表里只剩50便士 單杠電熱器能撐多久 How long can you run a one-bar fire with 50 pence in the meter?
我不太確定我明白你的意思 I'm not entirely sure I follow.
你當然不明白 Of course you don't,
如果你了解這種事 if you knew that sort of thing,
也不會贊成利用權威來維護體系了 you wouldn't agree about using authority to support the system.
我理解 我也同情 Look, I do understand. I do sympathise.
如果貧困能消除那當然好 It'd be marvellous if there was no poverty.
但我們實在沒有這個資源 But we just don't have the resources to achieve that.
誰沒有 Who hasn't?
國家 The nation.
是嗎 Really?
這張桌子是國家的嗎 Does this desk belong to the nation?
這些瓷器呢 This china?
是高級瓷器 Porcelain.
高級瓷器 Porcelain.
這些肖像畫呢 These portraits?
還是你自己的 Or are they your own?
當然不是 這都是政府財產 Of course not. They're government property.
很好 這能賣個...多少 Good. They should fetch about, what?
八萬嗎 80,000.
足夠養活20多個單親家庭一年了 That'll keep 20-odd one-parent families for a year.
還有你的薪水呢 And what about your salary?
-那可與此無關 -很好 - That has nothing to do with it! - Good,
那個我們也要 then we'll have that, too.
每周給你留100鎊 Leave you 100 pounds a week.
這樣每年能為困窘之人提供七萬鎊了 That's 70,000 a year for the needy.
我的薪水只是復雜經濟結構的一部分 Look, my salary is merely part of a complex economic structure.
好啊 那我們簡化一下 Good, we'll simplify it.
畢竟 After all,
你又不想靠報效祖國來掙大錢 you don't want to make a profit out of serving your country,
是吧 do you?
茶來了 Tea.
放這邊 愛琳 謝謝 Over here, Eileen, please.
太好了 非常感謝 How very nice. Thank you so much.
直譯: 做媽媽
我來倒茶吧 Shall I be mother?
告訴我 Tell me,
艾格妮絲 Agnes...
你的政策 this policy of yours of
只允許放養雞蛋在你的區內售賣 only allowing free-range eggs to be sold in your borough,
這怎么有助消除貧困了 how does this help poverty?
動物也有權利 Animals have rights too, you know.
排籠雞舍的生活不叫生活 A battery chicken's life isn't worth living.
你難道想這輩子 Would you want to spend your life
跟六百多只絕望 吵鬧 packed in with 600 other desperate
臭烘烘的家伙擠在一起 squawking, smelly creatures,
呼吸不到新鮮空氣 無法挪動地方 unable to breathe fresh air, unable to move,
不能伸展身體 甚至難以思考嗎 unable to stretch, unable to think?
當然不想 所以我才不去競選下院議員 Certainly not. That's why I never stood for Parliament.
-加糖嗎 -不 謝謝 - Sugar? - No, thank you.
請坐 Do sit down.
我們再說說警察的事吧 Now, let's turn to this matter of the police.
你想扣下給警察的撥款 You want to withhold funds from the police,
禁止他們進入地方議會地產 ban them from council property,
還要解雇警察局長 sack the Chief Constable,
并保留多個禁行區 and allow several no-go areas.
是的 That's it.
但你難道看不出 But can't you see
充足的警察執法對大家都有利嗎 that an adequate police enforcement is in all our interests?
尤其有利于 And it is especially in the interests
那些窮苦的普通人 of all those poor, ordinary folk
他們都住在高犯罪率的居民區 who dwell in the high-crime housing estates.
這我不接受 I don't accept that.
你難道希望他們有 You want them to be in danger of
被打劫 被強奸 被燃燒瓶炸的危險嗎 being mugged and raped and bombed by molotov cocktails?
那也沒辦法 Well, that can't be helped.
但這可能導致 But this could lead to the
整個政府體系的顛覆 overthrow of our whole system of government,
我們生活方式的顛覆 our whole way of life!
對你來說是 對他們不是 Yours, not theirs.
-那你樂意廢除議會嗎 -對 - So, you would be happy to abolish Parliament? - Yes.
-法院呢 -對 - The courts? - Yes.
君主制呢 The monarchy?!
當然 Of course.
或許你順便還想燒毀 Well, perhaps you'd like to burn down my office
我的辦公室吧 while you're about it!
火柴就在這里 That matches are over here!
不 No,
-當然不了 -為什么 - certainly not. - Why?
我說不定還要用呢 I may need it.
-你知道那個女人艾格妮絲·摩豪斯嗎 -嗯 - You know that Agnes Moorhouse woman? - Yes?
我叫漢弗萊去跟她談談 I told Humphrey to have a word with her.
那聽上去像個有趣的實驗 That sounds like an interesting experiment.
他說是進展順利 He says it went quite well,
但又不是很想談 but didn't want to talk about it very much
還在10分鐘內喝了四杯威士忌 and he had four whiskies in ten minutes.
地方政府到底怎么回事 What is it about local government?
我剛在市政廳鬧了不愉快 I've just been having terrible trouble with the Town Hall.
他們取消了老年人圣誕節派對 They've cancelled the Old People's Christmas party.
為什么 Why?
說是因為新員工加班協議 Something to do with new staff overtime agreements.
"都怪你丈夫 哈克太太 "It's your husband's fault, Mrs Hacker.
你叫他給我們撥款 你就能辦派對了" You tell him to give us the money and you can have the party."
這可好 Isn't that marvelous!
全英國所有市政廳的 Every piece of stupidity and incompetence
愚蠢和無能都要怪到我頭上 in every Town Hall in Britain is blamed on me.
那是多蘿茜 Now, that'll be Dorothy.
我叫她上來就是想談談這個問題 I asked her up here to have a word about that very thing.
多蘿茜 進來 Dorothy, come in.
來坐下 Come and sit down.
告訴我 地方政府的問題到底在哪 Now, tell me, what is wrong with local government?
這是個他們和我們的局面 Well, it's a them-and-us situation.
地方政府本該是我們 The Local Authority ought to be us.
我們是指人民還是政府 Us the people or us the government?
在民主制度下這本該是一體的 In a democracy that ought to be the same thing.
是啊 但我們都知道不是 Yes. We all know it isn't.
不 我是指人民 No, I mean us, the people.
他們該為我們辦事 They ought to be running things for us.
他們本該是我們的一部分 They ought to be part of us.
但他們不是 But they're not.
他們在為自己辦事 They're running things for them.
為自己謀權 謀私 謀利 For their power, for their convenience and their benefit.
這我知道 Yes. I know that.
所以怎么辦呢 So what's the answer?
-對抗他們 -不 - Fight them. - No.
把他們變成我們 Make them us.
什么意思 How do you mean?
如果你想阻止大型政府項目 Well, suppose you want to stop a major government project?
你要怎么辦 What do you do?
做個文官 Join the Civil Service.
不 我是說如果你是個普通人呢 No, I mean if you're an ordinary person.
我都記不得那是什么感覺了 I can't really remember what that was like.
看你的民調數據 你很快就能記起來了 Judging from the opinion polls, you're soon gonna find out.
就想象下 如果你是個普通人呢 吉姆 Just imagine you're an ordinary person, Jim.
我盡量吧 Well, I'll try.
想象下 如果你想阻止一項擴路計劃 And imagine you want to stop a road-widening scheme
或是阻止家附近新建個機場呢 or a new airport being built near your house.
你會怎么辦 Now, what do you do?
給本區議員寫信 Write to your local MP.
那就行了嗎 And that does the trick?
不 當然不行 Well, no, of course not,
但普通人就這么做 but that's what ordinary people do
因為普通人很蠢 'cause ordinary people are stupid.
所以他們才選了你嗎 Is that why they elected you?
別亂起哄了 親愛的 拜托 Stop barracking, darling, please.
乖乖的 There's a good girl.
我還想理解多蘿茜的意思呢 I'm trying to understand what Dorothy's driving at.
普通人組建團體 Ordinary people form a group
對抗他們反對的官方計劃 to fight official plans they don't want
這個團體能代表本地人民 and this group represents the local people.
這個團體與地方政府不同 Now, this group is different from the Local Authority
因為地方政府 because the Local Authority
并不真正代表本地人民 doesn't really represent the local people.
為什么 Why not?
因為地方議員 Well, because councillors
都來自很小的地方政黨 are all drawn from tiny local political parties.
當本地社區真心在乎什么問題時 When a local community really cares about an issue,
他們會組成委員會 they form a committee,
然后他們走上街頭 and then they go around the streets
去超市里 或上門找人談話 they talk to people in the supermarkets and on the doorstep.
他們爭取支持 并籌錢 They drum up support and raise money.
而且這錢不像財產稅 And this money isn't like the rates.
而是真花在了人民想花的地方上 It's spent on what people actually want it spent on.
我敢說這個社區的普通人 I bet the ordinary people in this neighbourhood
肯定希望老年人能辦個圣誕派對 would like the old folks to have a Christmas party.
當然了 Well, of course,
但市政廳更想蓋新市政廳 but the Town Hall would rather have a new Town Hall
或是讓地方議員去巴哈馬群島實地調查 or a councillors' fact-finding mission to the Bahamas.
那你怎么辦 So, what do you do?
親愛的 多明顯 Darling, it's obvious.
廢除他們 Abolish them.
將所有權力收歸中央政府 Invest all power in the Central Government.
-漢弗萊也會這么說 -是吧 - That's exactly what Humphrey would say. - See?
什么 What?
吉姆 你完全沒聽懂 Jim, you've completely missed the point
我剛剛說的一切 of everything I've been saying.
要做的是把權力還給普通人 The idea is to return power to ordinary people
而剝奪市政廳機器的權力 and take it away from the Town Hall machine.
讓地方政府真正負責 Make local government genuinely accountable.
是 但怎么做 Yes, but how?
這個月的《政治意見》里的一篇文章 Well, it's all in an article in this month's
詳盡闡述了 "Political Review"
是馬略特教授寫的 by Professor Marriott.
劃分小選舉區 Now, you create little voting districts.
以兩百戶左右人家為單位 200 or so households
自選教區議會 城中村 electing their own little parish council, a city village.
這個小教區議會的主席 And the chairman of this little parish council
就是他們在地方政府的代表 is their representative on the Local Authority.
那每個區得選出五百個地方議員了 You'd have about 500 councillors to each borough.
是啊 Well, that's right.
他們再選出執行議員 So they'd elect an executive council.
這樣的話 And then that would mean,
地方政府就有了議會和內閣 that the Local Authority have a parliament and a cabinet.
議會可不選內閣 Parliament don't elect the Cabinet.
那可不好 We don't want that.
那會將參與度提到太高的水平 That'd be taking participation to extreme lengths.
這些地方議會就將如此 Now, these councils would.
結果是 所有地方議員 With the result, that every councillor
都將和選出他們的選民 would be in door-to-door contact
直接接觸 with the people who voted for him.
多蘿茜 Dorothy,
這或許能媲美1832年的《改革法案》 this could be like the Great Reform Act of 1832.
這些地方議會就像 These councils are like
《法案》通過前那種有名無實的選區 little old rotten boroughs.
半打人 You know, half a dozen people
來決定接下來四年里 deciding who's gonna be in the Town Hall
誰坐鎮市政廳 for the next four years.
太對了 Well, precisely.
而我將成為偉大的改革者 And I shall be the great reformer!
《哈克改革法案》 Hacker's Reform Bill.
我要親自宣布 I shall introduce it myself.
英國的權力 The power of this country
不屬于辦公室和機構 does not lie in offices and institutions,
而是在堅實的心中 it lies in the stout hearts
堅定的意志中 and strong wills
那是英國自由民所具備的特質 of the yeomen of Britain!
女人也投票啊 Women have the vote, too!
英國的女自由民 The yeowomen of Britain.
自由人民 Yeopersons.
自由人...不 Yeopeople? No.
這座島國的人民 The people of this island race.
用他們寬廣睿智的肩膀承擔... On their broad and wise shoulders...
肩膀怎么能睿智呢 And you can't have wise shoulders.
寬廣的肩膀和... On their broad shoulders and
睿智的心... wise hearts...
頭腦 heads...
他們睿智的頭腦 in their wise heads
掌握著我們的命運 lies our destiny.
我們得將權力歸還于民眾 We must give back power to the people!
而將由我來引入這項... And I shall be the one to introduce this...
我該怎么稱呼這個新計劃 What shall I call this new scheme?
民主制度嗎 Democracy?
是 Yes.
漢弗萊爵士 您找我嗎 Sir Humphrey, you wanted to see me?
是 伯納德 Yes, Bernard.
伯納德 Bernard,
我想找你談談 I want to have a word with you
馬略特教授的文章 about Professor Marriott's article.
是 我覺得我們也該改革地方政府了 Yes. I think it's about time we reformed local government.
-你真這么想嗎 伯納德 -是 - Do you, Bernard? - Yes.
至少我覺得我這么想 At least I think I did.
我是說 我也不完全反對這么做 That is, I'm not wholly against it.
不過也有很多... Although there are many...
有理有據 convincing,
甚至有人會說是決定性的反對聲音 some might say conclusive, arguments against it.
的確會有人這么說 伯納德 Some might indeed, Bernard.
是 Yes.
為什么 Why?
因為 伯納德 一旦你創造了 Because, Bernard, once you create
真正民主的地方社區 genuinely democratic local communities,
事情是不會到此為止的 it won't stop there.
是嗎 Won't it?
當然不會 Well, of course it won't.
你瞧 You see,
一旦成立 他們便會索要更多權力 once they get established, they'll insist on more power.
政客們會出于害怕而不敢拒絕 And the politicians will be too frightened to withhold them,
這就形成了區域政府 so you'll get regional government.
那要緊嗎 Would that matter?
伯納德 來坐下 Bernard, come and sit down.
伯納德 目前來講 Beranrd, what happens at the moment
假如諾丁漢有一塊閑置地皮 if there is some vacant land in, say, Nottingham
而關于它的開發有不同提案 會怎么樣呢 and there are rival proposals for its use,
比如建醫院 或者學院 或者機場 you know, a hospital, a college, or an airport?
我們設立一個部際委員會 Well, we set up an interdepartmental committee.
衛生部 教育部 Department of Health, Department of Education,
交通部 財政部 環境部 Department of Transport, Treasury, Environment.
提交文件 召開會議 Ask for papers, hold meetings,
提議 討論 修改 上報 改稿 propose, discuss, revise, report back, redraft,
常規流程 the normal thing.
沒錯 數月成果豐碩的工作 Precisely. Months of fruitful work.
最終得到一個成熟而負責的結論 Leading to a mature and responsible conclusion.
但如果形成區域政府 But if you have regional government,
他們自己在諾丁漢就決定了 they decide it all in Nottingham!
可能就開幾次會 根本不專業 Probably in a couple of meetings! Complete amateurs!
但那是他們的城市 But it is their city.
那我們怎么辦 And what happens to us?
-工作少多了 -對 - Well, much less work. - Yes,
工作少多了 much less work!
少到大臣幾乎都能 So little that ministers might almost be able to
自己做了 這樣我們的權力就少了 do it on their own, so we'd have much less power!
我不知道我是否真想要權力 Well, I don't know whether I really want power.
伯納德 如果合適的人不掌權 Bernard, if the right people don't have power,
知道會怎樣嗎 do you know what happens?
不合適的人就會掌權 The wrong people get it!
政客 地方議員 Politicians, councillors,
普通選民 ordinary voters!
但在民主制度下他們不就該掌權嗎 But aren't they supposed to in a democracy?
這是英式民主 伯納德 This is a British democracy, Bernard!
什么意思 How do you mean?
英式民主認為需要一個系統 British democracy recognises that you need a system
來保護生活中那些重要的事 to protect the important things of life
不落入蠻人手中 and keep them out of the hands of the barbarians!
比如歌劇 Things like the opera...
BBC廣播第三頻道 Radio 3...
鄉村 the countryside...
法律 the law...
大學 the universities.
那兩所都包括 Both of them.
我們就是那個系統 And we are that system.
天啊 Gosh!
我們運作著一臺文明 貴族政府機器 We run a civilised, aristocratic government machine
有偶爾的大選作為調劑 tempered by occasional general elections.
自1832年起 Since 1832,
我們便在逐步將選民從治理中剔除 we have been gradually excluding the voter from government.
現在 我們已經讓他們 Now we've got them to a point
只每五年投一次票 where they just vote once every five years
就為此 還有一群蠢蛋 for which bunch of buffoons
想來干涉我們的政策 will try to interfere with OUR policies
你居然樂意拋棄那一切嗎 and you are happy to see all that thrown away?
不不 我不是說... Well, no, no, I didn't mean...
伯納德 你難道希望湖區 Bernard, do you want the Lake District
變成一大片房車停車場嗎 turned into a gigantic caravan site?
或是皇家歌劇院變成賓果游戲廳 The Royal Opera House into a Bingo Hall?
國家劇院變成地毯甩賣倉庫 The National Theatre into a carpet sale warehouse?
其實它看著已經挺像了 Well, it looks like one, actually.
我們給建筑師封了爵士 We gave the architect a knighthood
就為了堵所有人的嘴 so that nobody would ever say that.
你難道希望BBC第三頻道全天候放流行樂嗎 Do you want Radio 3 to broadcast pop music 24 hours a day?
如果電視上的 And how would you feel
文化節目都被取消了 你會怎么想 if they took all the culture programmes off television?
我不知道 我從不看那個 I don't know. I never watch them.
我也不看 Well, neither do I,
但知道它們存在至關重要 but it's vital to know that they're there!
但您總說地方政府 But you always said local government
腐敗又無能 was corrupt and incompetent.
的確是 伯納德 Well, so it is, Bernard.
腐敗無能到 So corrupt and incompetent
大臣都意識到了 that even ministers recognise it.
所以他們會中央集權 Which means that they centralise.
他們把重要工作都交給我們 They give all the responsible jobs to us.
我們...就是政府的鮮花 伯納德 We... are the flower of government, Bernard.
地方政府或許是糞堆... Local government may be a dunghill...
但它長出了美麗的玫瑰 but it grows beautiful roses.
您是說... You mean...
對 伯納德 Yes, that's right, Bernard.
但如果我們想把糞堆清理干凈 But if we try to clean up the dunghill and...
卻失去了平衡... lose our balance...
我們會掉進... We land in the...
謝謝 伯納德 Thank you, Bernard.
謝謝 Thank you.
多謝你了 That's very good of you.
謝謝 Thank you.
你明白我為何這么擔心吧 阿諾德 So you see why I'm so worried, Arnold.
馬略特的這項計劃是毀掉千里之堤的蟻穴 This Marriott scheme is the thin end of the wedge.
最終可能瓦解公務員的權威 It could eventually undermine the Civil Service, too.
我想這倒不至于 Well, I don't think there's any danger of that.
只要你應對得好 Not if you play it right.
哈克只是在亂抓救命草 Hacker's just grasping at straws.
還是那個邏輯謬論 It's the old logical fallacy.
所有貓都有四條腿 我的狗有四條腿... All cats have four legs. My dog has four legs...
因此我的狗是只貓 Therefore my dog is a cat.
他是被政客邏輯繞進去了 He's suffering from politician's logic.
必須做點什么事 Something must be done,
這是件事 因此我們必須做 this is something, therefore we must do it.
但做錯事 比什么都不做還糟 But doing the wrong thing is worse than doing nothing.
做任何事都比什么都不做糟 Doing anything is worse than doing nothing.
對 畢竟 政客整個職業生涯中 Quite. After all, what is the one thing that obsesses politicians
自始至終日夜癡迷的那件事是什么呢 day and night throughout their careers?
當然是宣傳和人氣 Well, obviously publicity and popularity.
報紙報道 上電視露臉 Name in the paper, face on the telly.
-一切能幫他們連任的東西 -沒錯 - Anything which will help get themselves re-elected. - Quite.
政府就是揚名立萬 榮耀加身 Government is fame and glory
地位顯赫 身居要職 司機接送 and importance and big offices and chauffeurs
和接受泰瑞·沃根的采訪 and being interviewed by Terry Wogan.
而反對黨就是無能為力和無足輕重 Whereas Opposition is impotence and insignificance
大家在派對上問你認不認識羅賓·戴 and people at parties asking you if you know Robin Day.
但是 阿諾德 But, Arnold,
改革文職部門或許能為他們贏得支持率 reforming the Civil Service might win them popularity.
但那絕不能發生 But it can't ever happen...
是吧 漢弗萊 can it, Humphrey?
為什么不能 阿諾德 Why not, Arnold?
這跟地方政府一個道理 It's the same as in local government.
六萬人的選區實在太大 Constituencies of 60,000 are far too big
民眾不可能認識自己的議員 for people ever to know their MP.
所以選舉人只能根據 So electors have to make up their minds
電視 電臺和媒體的報道做決定 on the basis of the telly and the radio and the press.
對 他們選出最喜歡的黨魁 Yes, they pick their favourite party leader,
然后投票給那個 and then they vote for whatever clown
本選區黨派的幾十個人推舉的隨便誰 a few dozen people in their constituency party have chosen
做候選人 as their candidate.
相信我 我了解這個體系的規則 Believe me, I do understand how the system works,
-阿諾德 -是嗎 - you know, Arnold. - But do you?
聽好 漢弗萊 Listen, Humphrey,
如果政客的生死由他的媒體形象決定 if a politician lives or dies by his media image,
那他的生存就依賴于文官宣傳機器 then his survival depends on the Civil Service publicity machine
幫他完成愚蠢的講話 helping him with his fatuous speeches
爭取報道和拍照機會 and articles and photo opportunities.
政客是需要依賴我們的 Politicians are dependent on us.
靠上千名新聞官來宣傳他們的小政績 A thousand press officers to publicise their little triumphs.
靠《官方保密法》來掩蓋他們日常闖的禍 The Official Secrets Act to conceal their daily disasters.
所以你是說 阿諾德 So what you're saying, Arnold,
按馬略特教授的計劃 is that under Professor Marriott's scheme,
議員將憑他們在本地的名聲獲選 MPs would be elected on their local reputation
而非憑他們黨魁的媒體形象 rather than on their leader's media image.
對 政府和大臣 Yes, governments and ministers
就得憑實力贏得下院的選票 would have to earn their votes in the House.
真正按選舉人的意愿辦事 Actually do what the electors want
而不是讓我們按自己的方式做事 instead of leaving us to do it our way
他們只管贏得名聲和榮譽 while they do the fame and glory bit.
想想就可怕 It's a frightening thought.
我們覺得可怕 但首相會怎么想呢 Frightening to us, but what about the Prime Minister?
當然了 他更會覺得可怕 Of course. Even more frightening.
改革文職部門 Reforming the Civil Service
就是摘掉他的維生系統 would remove his life-support system.
踢掉讓他爬上現在的位置的梯子 It would kick away the ladder that's put him where he is.
而且他還站在上面呢 While he's still standing on it.
沒錯 That's right.
如果真想改革文官體系 The only real way to reform the Civil Service system
就只有改革政治體系 is to reform the political system.
沒有哪個政府會改革 And no government's going to reform
讓他們掌權的體系 the system that put it into power.
關鍵在于要讓首相看清這危險 Well, the thing is to get the Prime Minister to see the danger.
那是你的工作了 That's your job.
我知道了 I know.
我就告訴他 這將是他最魄力非凡的舉措 I'll tell him it'll be the most courageous thing he's ever done.
那總能達到效果 That always does the trick.
進 Yes?
艾格妮絲·摩豪斯 漢弗萊爵士 Agnes Moorhouse, Sir Humphrey.
艾格妮絲 Agnes.
你過來坐吧 Why don't you sit over here?
艾格妮絲 Now, Agnes,
首相十分擔心 the Prime Minister's really worried about
你對警察的態度 your attitude to the police.
很好 Good.
所以他提出了對地方政府的整體改革 So he's proposing a wholesale reform of local government.
街道代表 Street representatives,
幾百戶人家組成選舉社區 voting communities of couple of hundred households,
整個區的選民完全參與到 total involvement of the whole borough electorate
候選人的選擇中 in the selection of candidates.
這不是認真的吧 This isn't serious?
恐怕是的 I'm afraid it is.
這直擊了我們 This strikes at the very heart
民主社會改革的心臟 of our democratic social reforms.
怎么 你是說民眾不歡迎你的政策嗎 What? Do you mean the people don't want your policies?
如果他們能理解那當然會歡迎 Well, of course they would if they could understand,
但普通選民都很單純 but the ordinary voters are simple people.
他們看不清自己的需求 They don't see their needs.
他們不會分析問題 They can't analyse problems.
他們需要人領導他們走上他們該走的道路 They need leadership to guide them the way they ought to go.
那"民眾"難道不會投票選出這樣的領導嗎 And don't you think "the people" would vote for such leadership?
民眾并不總明白什么才對他們好 The people don't always understand what's good for them.
我太贊同了 I do so agree with you.
-是嗎 -當然了 - Do you? - Well, of course!
所以文職部門才能延續數世紀 That's how the Civil Service has survived for centuries.
是我們造就了如今的國家 We made this country what it is,
但絕不會有人投票給我們 but nobody would ever vote for us!
-我們才知道什么對國家好 -我們也是 - We know what's right for this country! - So do we!
唯一的辦法 就是讓一小群人說了算 The only way is to have a small group in charge
讓民眾每五年舉辦一次大規模投票 and just let the people have a mass vote every few years.
但如果他們真了解了 But if they actually got to know
他們要投票選的人... the people they were voting for...
如果他們真跟他們談話了 If they actually got to talk to them,
那他們會被那些愚蠢的傳統思維蒙蔽 then they'd fall for all the silly conventional ideas!
漢弗萊 Humphrey...
艾格妮絲 Agnes?
這對你來說也很不妙 This would be a disaster for you, too, you know.
我知道 I know.
社區議會總會導致區域政府 Community councils always lead to regional government.
艾格妮絲 Agnes...
我們必須阻止首相 We must stop the Prime Minister!
你也想阻止他嗎 You want to stop him, too?
當然了 你必須幫我 Well, of course. And you must help me.
怎么幫 How?
我可能有辦法 Well, I think I know how to do it.
但我需要你的書面保證 But I want your written assurance
說你將不再騷擾你們本地的警察 that you will stop harassing your local police.
我是說 別再要求他們對你民主負責了 I mean, stop making them democratically accountable to you.
這能緩解緊急性 It will remove some of the urgency.
好吧 Right.
你要我說什么 What do you want me to say?
我想... Well, I thought...
差不多這樣就行 it might go something like this.
漢弗萊 Humphrey...
你不加入激進運動真是可惜了 you're a great loss to the militant revolution.
你呢 好艾格妮絲 And you, my dear Agnes...
不加入公務員真是可惜了 are a great loss to the Civil Service.
漢弗萊為什么要我見這位馬略特教授 Why does Humphrey want me to see this Professor Marriott?
-他肯定另有動機 -為什么 - He must have an ulterior motive. - Why?
漢弗萊的動機總是深藏不露的 All Humphrey's motives are ulterior.
是這樣嗎 伯納德 Has he, Bernard?
漢弗萊究竟怎么看這份計劃 I mean, what does Humphrey really think about this plan?
這... Well...
我想... Well, I think...
我是說 我相信 如果您有意如此... That is, I'm sure, if it's what you want...
那我相信漢弗萊爵士肯定會... Then I'm sure Sir Humphrey would...
他會... Well, he would...
那么糟嗎 As bad as that?
首相 馬略特教授在外面 Prime Minister, Professor Marriott is outside.
-您現在能見他嗎 -好的 - Will you see him now? - Yes, of course.
伯納德 可以麻煩你嗎 Bernard, I wonder if you'd be kind enough.
漢弗萊 Humphrey.
你怎么看馬略特的計劃 What's your view of the Marriott plan?
是個為英國治理 Well, it is a brilliant way of bringing
帶來真正民主的絕妙辦法 real democracy into the government of Britain.
-所以你支持咯 -他可沒那么說 - So you're in favour? - That's not what he said.
首相 如果您真心想要真正的民主政府 Prime Minister, if you genuinely want real democratic government,
我將毫不猶豫地支持您 you will have my unquestioning support.
馬略特教授 Professor Marriott.
教授 請進 Professor, come in.
謝謝您能來 Good of you to come.
請坐 Do sit down.
首相 很榮幸能見到您 Prime Minister, what an honour to meet you.
是 我知道 Yes, I know.
首相 Prime Minister,
馬略特教授還有一篇之前文章的續篇 Professor Marriott has a sequel to his original article
下月就將出版 which is due to be published next month.
比第一篇還令人激動 It is even more exciting than the first one.
那說說吧 教授 Tell me more, Professor.
是啊 跟首相講講這對議會的好處 Yes. Tell the Prime Minister about the benefits to Parliament.
您知道 按我的地方政府計劃 Well, as you know, under my local government scheme,
每個區都將有五百名街道代表 each borough would have its 500 street representatives.
那么地方議員 Now, this means that the local MP
將可以跟他們齊聚一堂地交談 would be able to talk to them all in one hall.
這樣他們便能真正了解他了 So, they'd really get to know him.
沒錯 回去把他的情況告訴自己的街坊 Exactly. And tell all the people in their street about him.
這是口耳相傳的親身推薦 Personal, private, word-of-mouth recommendation.
聽上去很棒啊 Sounds terrific.
等等 Hold on a moment.
那選區黨派呢 Where would the constituency party come in?
這正是最棒的 Well, that's the marvellous thing.
黨派組織將被完全繞過 Party organisations would be completely bypassed.
議員將真正獨立出來 MPs would become genuinely independent.
什么 What?
如果他們跟自己的選民 You see, if they were personally known to all their constituents
或委員會代表有直接接觸 or their committee representatives,
那么議員能否連任 then whether MPs would get re-elected
就將跟黨派是否支持他們無關 would be nothing to do with whether the party backed them or not
而完全要看選民是否認為 it would depend on whether the constituents
他們的工作做得好 felt they were doing a good job.
如果議員不依靠他的黨派機器 So if the MP wasn't dependent on his party machine,
那他還可以投票反對自己的政府黨派 he could actually vote against his own government party
而不會有后果 and get away with it.
沒錯 因為這樣就不需要官方候選人了 Exactly, because, there'd be no need for official candidates.
選舉看的就是每個獨立議員的名譽 Election would depend on the reputation of each individual MP,
而非黨魁的形象 not the image of the party leader.
終結黨派機器 An end of the party machine.
終結黨鞭的權力 An end to the power of the whips.
但政府要怎樣 But how would the government
通過不得民心的立法 gets its unpopular legislation through
如果不能偶爾強迫一兩個人的話 without being able to twist the odd arm?
-要怎么確保多數票 -那就做不到了 - How would it command a majority? - It couldn't.
立法只有在 There could only be legislation
多數議員贊成時才能通過 if a majority of the MPs were actually in favour of it.
議會將真正實現民主 Parliament would become genuinely democratic.
首相 Prime Minister,
這是您提出的最魄力非凡的政策 it is the most courageous policy you have ever proposed.
教授 非常感謝 Professor, thank you so much.
真是太有趣了 再見 Absolutely fascinating. Goodbye.
謝謝 首相 Thank you, Prime Minister.
但首相 這想法多好 But, Prime Minister, it's a splendid idea.
真正的民主 Real democracy.
多蘿茜 這絕不可以 Dorothy, it's out of the question.
但馬略特的計劃是我們 But the Marriott scheme was our way
控制地方政府的手段 of controlling the Local Authority.
那我們現在要怎么應對 Well, now what are we gonna do
艾格妮絲·摩豪斯和警察的事 about Agnes Moorhouse and the police?
首相 我又跟她談過了 Prime Minister, I've had another word with her.
簡單說 首相 To put it simply, Prime Minister,
經過了一些私下的探討 certain informal discussions took place
在徹底而坦誠地交換了意見后 involving a full and frank exchange of views,
得出了一系列提議 out of which there arose a series of proposals
經考察 which on examination
證實指向了一些有前途的考量方向 proved to indicate certain promising lines of inquiry,
而考量之后 得出的結論是 which, when pursued, led to the realisation
另一種措施 在特定情況下 that the alternative courses of action might, in fact,
其實或許可以做微妙的調整 in certain circumstances, be susceptible of discreet modification,
因而要重新評估原本存在的差異 leading to a reappraisal of the original areas of difference
并指明前進道路 以求有令人振奮的可能 and pointing a way to encouraging possibilities
會達成妥協與合作 of compromise and cooperation
如果雙方在 which, if bilaterally implemented
恰當的遷就后 都肯走上這條路 with appropriate give and take on both sides,
如果氛圍合適 那或許 might, if the climate were right,
有一定可能 終究 have a reasonalbe possibility, at the end of the day,
不管是好是壞 能讓雙方達成 of leading, rightly or wrongly,
一個彼此都滿意的解決方案 to a mutually satisfactory resolution.
你說什么呢 What the hell are you talking about?
我們做了個交易 We did a deal.
奇怪的是 Oddly enough,
她似乎并不比您更喜歡民主 she didn't seem to like the idea of democracy any more than you.
還有你 Or you.
是啊 好女士 Quite so, dear lady.
我想我們都同意 Well, I think we're all agreed
國家還沒準備好迎來徹底的民主 that the nation isn't quite ready for total democracy.
或許... Perhaps...
下個世紀吧 next century?
您下個世紀也可能還是首相呢 Well, you could still be Prime Minister next century.
那就下下個世紀吧 Well, the one after that.
是 首相 Yes, Prime Minister.