Hong Kong June 23, 2013
Edward Snowden has just accounted for the greatest leak of secrets in the history of U.S. intelligence.
Edward Snowden is a coward. He is a traitor and he has betrayed his country.
The man who leaked details of a secret telephone- and Internet-surveillance program in the USA, -
- has disappeared in Hong Kong.
If he wants to come home tomorrow to face the music, he can do so.
They should use every legal avenue we have to bring him back to the United States.
I want to get him caught and brought back for trial.
I don't know how anybody can view this person as anything other than a criminal.
We have been telling him: "Get out, get out, get out."
I was going along with someone's life literally in your hands.
Either our plan had worked, and we would get on that flight, -
- or it wouldn't.
Snowden's Great Escape
Just three weeks earlier, Edward Snowden, a 29-year old analyst for the National Security Agency in the USA -
- was waiting for journalists he thought he could trust.
In his backpack he had nearly a million top secret NSA documents.
The journalists were traveling across the world from New York to a hotel in Hong Kong -
- for a secret meeting whose outcome they couldn't predict.
Because I knew that what was waiting there was vitally important.
But because we didn't know what really was going on, every step of the way had all sorts of hazards.
The question mark that hung over us was the fact that we had no idea who the person was we were about to meet.
So we were rushing into this huge unknown.
The documents Snowden had with him was so sensitive he could be in prison for decades for removing them.
For all he knew, the U.S. authorities could have intercepted the communications of the journalists -
- and he was about to fall into a trap. I had crossed the Rubicon at that point.
I don't think anybody can reach such a clear turning point in their life -
- without thinking alea iacta est to themselves. You know, "The die is cast."
I had to expect that the most likely scenario was that I would be led out in handcuffs.
How would we know that we were not talking to some agent? Or somebody else?
The method that he invented was to hold this Rubik's cube and that was the first thing I looked for.
After getting top secret documents from Snowden, the two Guardian journalists published their first stories.
They did not name their source.
Edward Snowden's identity remained a secret.
At the time I thought he was paranoid.
Once we were in the room, he piled pillows up against the door jam.
Up high along the sides and along the bottom.
So if there was someone passing in the hallway eavesdropping, it would make it more difficult for them.
The stories began to appear and then there was a period of time before he then self identifies. In that gap there -
- it's my understanding that NSA had a very good idea who that was and what he had done.
And then it's a simple step from there to begin to use all the tools available to the U.S. government as to where he might be.
When he wanted to access his laptops, he had a big, red hood -
- that he would put over his head and over his computer.
When he put in his passwords he was scared that someday someone might see through the window or maybe a hidden camera in the room.
It's the greatest loss of secrets in our nations history!
That certainly was energizing the other parts of the U.S. government to do everything they could to get him, -
- and especially the materials back before there was any more harm.
How far was the U.S. willing to go based on your professional experience in the intelligence community?
For me it was a question of: Could the government feel that every copy of this material could be stopped -
- at a single point? And if that point had presented itself, I don't know what they would have done.
It was even possible that they might try to kill me.
He was incredibly edgy, he was nervous.
And I remember that the firealarm went off.
And he wondered: "Was this a tactic to get him out of his room?"
Always hovering over everything we were doing, was the possibility that at any given moment there could be a knock on the door -
- that would put an end to our interaction.
The time was extremely intense. Every day myself and Glenn would see Snowden at The Mira.
We didn't expect him to be there. We assumed that they must be hunting for him.
What would you do if you were the director of the CIA, the director of the NSA?
And you knew there is an individual out there who was about to expose evidence that you had committed serious crimes.
And you had the resources available to stop this person, even if it meant using lethal force. What would you do?
I know for a fact that the U.S. government was very angry at Mr. Snowden.
His safety, and also his life was put at risk.
-But you know that? -I do now.
The idea that he could somehow evade the U.S. for very much longer seemed inconceivable it does.
And every time we interviewed him, we thought: "That is the last time we will see him."
"We are going to make the most out of this because we won't get the chance to speak to him tomorrow. He won't be there."
For many years Edward Snowden worked at NSA headquarters near Washington, D.C. Just miles from where he grew up.
I saw him in the shadow of the NSA, literally in the area of Fort Meade.
He was there. I picked him up and went out to dinner.
The Snowden family has a long history of military service. Dating back to colonial times.
Edward Snowden had an impressive career in Americas intelligence community.
By the age of 27, he had gained access to its deepest secrets.
He just seemed almost depressed. And I was very concerned about him.
It was not the Ed that I knew.
What Snowden could not tell his father during that dinner, was that he had discovered NSA documents that disturbed him.
One of the key things that actually motivated me, was the growing realization that we -
- in the United States government were increasingly making decisions that departed from the rule of law.
I assumed that maybe there was something going on between him and his long-term partner Lindsay Mills.
Which really concerned me, because I knew that he loved her very much.
And I gave him a hug. You know, "I love you, dad." "I love you, son."
What Snowden disclosed was not information, he disclosed how we collected information.
In other words he didn't reveal a bucket of water, he revealed the plumbing.
He revealed how we gather, process and distribute water.
And therefore that is going to have a really harmful effect on American intelligence for a very long time.
Mr. President, thank you for those kind words and for the confidence that you and ambassador Negropontes ...
No one played a more important role in creating the NSA we know today than General Michael Hayden.
He was given the job by George W. Bush -
- with a mandate to stop at nothing to stop terrorism.
When I returned from Korea in 1999 to take the position at NSA ...
Michael Hayden, former director of NSA and CIA, ran a program called Stellar Wind.
Where the communications of anyone in America could be collected on mass -
- under the pretext of preventing terrorism.
If you are asking me to delve into my deepest emotions ...
It was the arrogance of an individual.
Who looked upon the activity of the NSA, and believed -
- that his legal and ethical judgment trump the judgment of his co-workers,-
- his leadership, the American president, the American congress and the American court system.
I thought to myself: "What kind of man is this?"
How can someone justify the violation of the rights of an entire nation?
Without even a law to lean on!
How do we come back from a situation in which the most senior officials in a democracy -
- are acting against the interest of the public in secret?
Snowden would have to believed his judgment trump all of those -
- in order to create the kind of moral righteousness that he claims.
That's pretty arrogant.
My name is Ed Snowden. I'm 29 years old.
I work for Booz Allen Hamilton as an infrastructure analyst for NSA.
... revealed massive NSA surveillance programs to collect phone records and internet data on a scale that many people never imagined.
-I do not welcome leaks. -Journalists have been searching far and wide ...
-Where is he? -It is almost certain that he is still here in Hong Kong.
This is the most serious hemorrhaging of legitimate American secrets in the history of my country.
We have never seen anything like this before.
In Hong Kong it was about 3 or 4 in the morning, so it was a couple of hours sleep, -
- and then we woke up and there was pandemonium.
Where the world is Edward Snowden?
My boss called me and said: "Something urgent happened. Come to the office immediately!"
As soon as Edward Snowden revealed himself as the whistleblower, -
- he set off a catch me if you can hunt by the U.S. government and a where is he now guessing game for the media.
The whole world now had a name and face to attach to the revelations. But so did the FBI.
And I am sure they are going to be very busy for the next week.
In the interview Snowden posted on the Guardian website. In it there was a clue as to where he might be staying:
A view out of a hotel window.
>From this video we can tell that there were two pillars of the Tsing Yi bridge.
The one on the left is bigger than the one on the right.
So I went to Google Maps and used Google Earth trying to figure out -
- from which perspective can the Tsing Yi bridge look like that.
The consequences if the media had known where Mr. Snowden was from that time onward, -
- it would have been a direct link the NSA, the U.S. government and any other U.S. government agencies -
- to identify where my client was at the time.
He was alarmed, he was upset that at anytime the CIA could come crashing through that door.
Everyone was chasing after this story. Everyone was so desperate.
Everyone was desperately hoping to find Snowden.
I want to get him caught and brought back for trial. I think the chase is on.
To leak that amount of sensitive material -
- and then stand up in front of the whole world and say: "This is who I am and here is what I did.", -
- is a virtual guarantee that you are going to end up in a cage for the next several decades if not longer.
You can not come forward against the worlds most powerful intelligence agencies -
- and be completely free from risk. Cause they are such powerful adversaries.
This was the biggest media story on the planet at the time, there is the likelyhood that media would arrive there.
He needs to leave the hotel immediately and just leave everything behind.
When I went to Hong Kong, I didn't intend to get out of this safely.
This wasn't about me. I didn't care what happened to me.
-My part of the job was finished. -The journalists were probably going to be there in a matter of minutes.
And they just occupied the lobby. They were hunting.
-Saying: "Where was Snowden? Where was Snowden?" -It was like a bright siren.
Declaring to everybody: "Here is the man of interest."
10 000 km (6 200 mi) away, in London, there was one thing the U.S. government might be happy about:
WikiLeaks founder, Julian Assange, was not involved in the Snowden revelations.
By sitting at my desk I certainly had the authorities to wiretap anyone from you or ...
Assange has been confined to the Ecuadorian Embassy in London since June, 2012.
The U.S. government saw him as out of commission.
Let us look at the situation with Edward Snowden: 29 year old young man.
In a foreign jurisdiction that he had no experience with, subject of the largest intelligence manhunt the world has ever seen.
And the realities were for Edward Snowden: He was going to be smashed.
The man who leaked details of a secret telephone- and Internet-surveillance program in the USA, -
- has disappeared in Hong Kong.
Snowden had fled the hotel and was now hiding in the apartment of local supporters.
The whereabouts are now unknown of Edward Snowden who was a contract worker of the CIA.
He has not been seen since he ...
And at that moment he reached out and asked us for help.
With WikiLeaks, Snowden hoped he had found a team that was a match for the NSA.
He knew the U.S. was investigating WikiLeaks for espionage and terrorism.
Years of surveillance had left WikiLeaks no option but to protect their communications through encryption.
Something Snowden considered vital.
Assange and his colleagues only agreed to appear in this film on condition -
- WikiLeaks' lawyers be permitted to vet their interviews.
Sarah Harrison, a journalist at WikiLeaks, was busy running an election campaign in Australia
- when she got a call from London.
I spoke to people from work and they said: "Have you seen this thing about Snowden?"
And I said: "What is wrong with the mountain in Wales?"
Then they said: "Look online, look online!" So I looked, and he had gone public at that stage.
A video had gone out on The Guardian.
At that moment when I first heard his name, I didn't imagine that I would be spending four months with him.
To the outside world it would look like a hurricane. Statements from the White House, -
- stories appearing in the newspapers and a lot of interest about what he was doing in Hong Kong.
I knew that, actually, this was the calm moment.
And that the real storm was just about to come and he would be sucked in to this vortex within two weeks.
Imprisonment and arrest ... I had seen Chelsea Manning go through a similar experience.
After three years of solitary confinement without trial, the U.S. military's most famous Whistleblower, Bradley Manning ...
Until Snowden, Manning's leak of American government documents, had been the biggest loss of secrets in American history.
WikiLeaks had published the documents, but had to stand by and watch as Manning was caught, -
- and held in conditions characterized by the UN as cruel, inhuman and degrading.
U.S. tried very hard to make Chelsea Manning a general deterrent.
Incredibly abusive treatment of him, psychological torture. Simply for communicating to the media.
I knew about Chelsea Manning. There was never any question about how that case was going to be settled.
And you were willing to put yourself in the same position?
That's tough to vocalize.
Three days after Snowden went underground, Sarah Harrison landed in Hong Kong.
She took charge of what was to become: "Operation Asylum".
... that there was a person by the name of Edward Snowden who had checked in and out, but it's still not clear ...
What was particularly extraordinary i think, was -
- while all of these news organizations around the world, all of these publishers were trying to get a piece of the story.
But there was only one publisher that actually said: "We want to help the source, we want to make sure he's okay."
"We want to make sure that no matter what happens, he has somebody on his side." And that was WikiLeaks.
If there was one thing I could change, It would've been whether we could have done more for Snowden.
I did have a discussion with the editors, Alan Rusbridger and Janine Gibson.
About what we could do for Snowden. Whether we should be paying his hotel bills and whether we should be getting him legal advice.
I wish we thought it through and maybe if we had more time we could've come up with something.
It was the U.S. government vs. WikiLeaks. And not just in the grand jury court, -
- but right there on the ground in Hong Kong.
Snowden blew the whistle on Americas effort to spy on innocent citizens.
-Today we all blow the whistle! -Protect Snowden!
It's about privacy on the Internet!
The U.S. government has filed criminal charges against Edward Snowden.
I think it was on my birthday. When the present I got from the government, was -
- that they unceiled an indictment against me.
Edward Snowden has been charged for espionage, theft and conversion of government property.
What was extraordinary about the indictment was the fact that they included espionage charges.
Now, they knew that I wasn't working for any foreign government. That was clear from the beginning.
They knew that I was working with journalists and that the recipient of the information was the public at large.
Washington now wants help from Hong Kong officials because Snowden has been hiding in the Chinese territory -
- since unleashing revelations about the National Security Agency.
The charge of espionage increased the pressure on the Hong Kong authorities to act -
- and made Snowdens position even more dangerous.
It meant that if Snowden was caught, he could face the death penalty back home in the U.S.
Snowden took the risk of leaving his hideout and met his lawyer who warned him:
Sooner or later Hong Kong would hand him over to the U.S. -
- where he could expect same treatment as Private Manning.
Manning had clearly been subject to cruel and inhumane degrading treatment.
Or punishment.
This raised concerns about what would happen to Mr. Snowden -
- if he was returned to the United States.
Snowden could not be sure if the Hong Kong authorities would do as the U.S. was demanding and arrest him right away.
Hong Kong citizens were on the streets calling him a hero, -
- but the Hong Kong authorities were in an unpredictable situation.
Snowden knew that there was always the possibility of the central government in Beijing intervening -
- and sacrifice him in a deal with the U.S.
The things that were told to us was that the Hong Kong authorities just wanted the case gone.
He was a hot potato. They didn't want to deal with it, they were either going to upset the people of Hong Kong or Beijing.
It was just too problematic.
The Hong Kong government decided to play for time.
Rather than arrest Snowden, they decided to wait for the proper paperwork to arrive.
But Snowden was still in danger.
With the nature of the disclosures he made, -
- there was a real and immediate risk that he could be arrested in Hong Kong.
One of the reasons Snowden was so vulnerable, was that a white house task force -
- was working the phones and putting pressure on decision-makers in Hong Kong.
Since we learned that Snowden was in Hong Kong, U.S. authorities had been in continual contact -
- with their Hong Kong counterparts at the working and senior levels.
The U.S. was certain, if the Hong Kong government decided to arrest Snowden, -
- they would not have problems locating him.
Look, the Chinese have a wonderful intelligence service.
I would lose all respect for my Chinese colleagues -
- if they did not have very good knowledge as to what was going on.
Although our analysis was that Edward would face serious consequences and should immediately leave Hong Kong.
He was reluctant to do that until it seemed like there was no other choice.
He wanted to explore different options, and this was driving us mad.
WikiLeaks have been working out options of where he would be safe, -
- where he could go, different people's opinions around the world.
It was his decision. It's his life.
The border is open. We got to go.
Now is the chance. The border is open. It could close at any time.
Then something happened that narrowed the options for Snowden.
The request for his extradition arrived from the United States on a Friday night.
Would the Hong Kong justice ministry wait until Monday to issue a warrant?
Who could know?
They would make a decision, and then they would act upon that decision.
We needed to move. The clock was ticking.
Mr. Snowden was in a difficult position where he could be arrested at any time.
What Edward was concerned about is knowing the exact status of the border.
He agreed that he should leave, -
- but as soon as he went to passport control maybe he would be arrested.
So he was very reluctant to actually leave, because that would cut short his last time.
His last hours of freedom.
Attorney General Eric Holder placed a phone call, stressing the importance -
- of the matter in urging Hong Kong to honor our request for Snowden's arrest.
It was the end.
He couldn't wait to continue to assist the situation.
He had to make a decision.
That was the moment where it all came together or it didn't.
Either our plan worked, our negotiations had worked.
And we would get on that flight.
Or it wouldn't.
We have been in touch via diplomatic -
- and law enforcement channels with a number of countries which Mr. Snowden -
- might transit or could serve as final destinations.
This was the largest intelligence manhunt the world has ever seen.
So the U.S. was throwing all it's resources at this thing.
So we needed some way of splitting those resources.
Cause we didn't want them all focused on his flight out.
He bought a ticket to India as cover. It was booked using his credit card -
- for two days after the actual asylum flight.
In all, WikiLeaks bought more than a dusin tickets in Snowden's name -
- on flights leaving Hong Kong.
They hoped the U.S. wouldn't figure out which flight he and Harrison -
- were aiming for.
He was worried about missing the flight.
We were running late basically.
Due to the fact that I had been printing all our tickets -
- and there was an issue with the printer. Sort of these stupid things...
Subtitles by the Amara.org community
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