[Music]
you
welcome to Brussels forum 2020 we are
pleased to introduce the vice president
for foreign policy at the German
Marshall Fund dr. Ian lesser
good morning and good afternoon from
Brussels welcome back to Brussels forum
2020 and it's 15 edition and today we're
very pleased in honor to welcome US
Secretary of State Michael Pompeo for a
special conversation with us we've
hosted the secretary with us before in
Brussels in 2018 we're very pleased to
have him back again for what is sure to
be a closely watched conversation on
critical challenges facing us and
foreign policy terms on both sides of
the Atlantic and in transatlantic
relations as always let me say a word of
thanks to our partners in Brussels forum
to our founding partners Daimler and the
Belgian Ministry of Foreign Affairs
through our foreign partner Deloitte and
to all our associate and supporting
knowledge partners we're very grateful
to all of them let me also say a very
special thank you to US mission to the
European Union and in fact to all three
US missions here in Brussels for their
consistent partnership and support let
me just also say a word about our format
today the secretary will make some brief
remarks to begin with and then we're
pleased to be able to turn this over for
a conversation to boy on chefs key who
is Germany correspondent for The Wall
Street Journal he will have a
conversation with the secretary and then
the secretary is kindly agreed to take a
few questions from our virtual audience
as well so once again mr. Kerry thank
you for being with us in Brussels thanks
to all of you for joining over to you
boil much e in then welcome Secretary of
State welcome to our viewers we'll just
I think let the Secretary of State have
some opening remarks tell us what's on
his mind what's keeping him busy and
then we'll proceed with the discussion
and we'll take some questions from the
audience so Secretary of State please go
ahead oh yeah thank you Andy and thank
you for inviting me to be with you all
sorry we couldn't do this in person
hello to everyone who's logged in to
watch this today a few brief remarks as
even referred to 18 months ago in
Brussels I made the case to you all that
multilateral institutions aren't an end
of themselves we have to honestly assess
what they do or don't achieve we have to
see them for what they are not what we
wish them to be I don't think that was a
favorite among the European press but
you should know that privately many of
my counterparts told me that they agreed
with me they're realistic about the
state of these institutions and they too
want to fix them I'm starting to see
even more realism on the continent as it
relates to the threat of the Communist
Party in China we should address that
challenge together as transatlantic
partners have met many challenges and
that's what I want to focus on today
first Dana the truth we need acknowledge
what's happening I spoke this month with
the EU foreign ministers and then last
Friday at an audience in Copenhagen in
both places I listened to a lot of
feedback about the Chinese Communist
Party and I laid out a series of facts I
talked about the People's Liberation
Army's provocative military actions they
include its continued aggression in the
South China Sea deadly border
confrontations in India and opaque
nuclear program and threats against
peaceful neighbors talked about how the
CCP has broken multiple international
commitments including those to the w-h-o
the WTO the United Nations and the
people of Hong Kong I talked to about
the ccp's predatory economic practices
such as trying to force nations to do
business with Huawei an arm of the
Chinese Communist Party's surveillance
state they talked about many of its
violations of European sovereignty
including its browbeating of companies
like HSBC talked about Beijing's légion
human rights abuses which continue to
shock us all that's it
just the facts but they lead to a
conclusion in our judgment the United
States is not forcing Europe to choose
between the free world or China's
authoritarian vision China is making
that choice between freedom and
democracy look the United States will
slow to recognize this reality of the
rising authoritarian regime
and the implications that had for us
here to our free society Europe was slow
too but the ccp's cover-up of the
coronavirus an outbreak that began in
whoo-hah china which has now killed tens
of thousands of our people and hundreds
of thousands of people across the world
I think it's accelerated everyone's
awakening Europeans like Americans are
starting to find their voice the
Commission and the external Action
Service last spring identified China as
the systemic rival the very important
acknowledgement the Lithuania
intelligence services national threat
assessment identified China as a
potential threat for the first time in
2019 and did so again here in 2020 the
g7 condemned China's national security
law targeting Hong Kong I greatly
appreciated - how the EU has called out
China for its disinformation campaign
surrounding the pandemic it's also not
just words the new inter-parliamentary
reliance on China many of its European
leaders is gaining steam the United
Kingdom has a strong stand against
taking a strong stance against the cbiit
CCP his attempt to crush Hong Kongers
autonomy the Czech Republic has led the
charge in current countries to adopt
principles of secure networks clean
networks in 5g and my friend Secretary
General Stoltenberg position a welcome
call to NATO to make China a greater
part of the Alliance's focus clearly
there is a transatlantic awakening to
the truth of what's happening concerns
are rightly growing about the ccp's
exploration exploitation of multilateral
bodies - to give you just a single
example Chinese leaders at the
International Telecommunications Union
and the international civil Civil
Aviation Organization have leveraged
their positions to advance China's
narrow interests certainly the United
States and many of our free world
friends have our differences on the
subject of multilateralism but we can
all agree that these institutions should
be rooted in democratic values hue to
their missions and reflect the interests
of all member states look we've already
done some good work this spring I'll add
a global diplomatic effort to make sure
that the next year director-general of
the World Intellectual Property
Organization be one who
protects intellectual property rights on
behalf of the world not on behalf of
China the transatlantic world has thrive
like no other part of the world since
World War two so much in part because
our countries protect intellectual
property I want to thank our friends in
France and the UK who with whom we
worked closely for their efforts in
securing that important and good outcome
we should keep protecting multilateral
bodies as transatlantic partners my
message today to all of you go on my
message today is this we have to work
together to continue the transatlantic
awakening to the China challenge in the
interest of preserving our free
societies our prosperity and our future
it won't be easy it's tempting for many
particularly in our business communities
who make money in China to say we must
calm tensions and simply accept an
increasingly belligerent CCP that's
nonsense I don't accept that argument
there is no compromise between freedom
and authoritarianism I don't want the
future to be shaped by the CCP and I'd
wager no one on this call wants that
either to that end today I'm pleased to
announce that the United States has
accepted I represented Burrell's
proposal to create a us-eu dialogue on
China I'm excited about this a new
mechanism for discussing the concerns we
have about the threat China poses to the
west and our shared democratic ideals I
look forward to kicking that off with
High Representative or al just as soon
as we can pull it together my invitation
to America's friends in Europe is to
defend these values in our time that
they may shape the world for the good in
the future just as they have done in the
past will defend these values together
go on with that Boyan with that I'm
happy to take questions from you and
from others as well thank you very much
secretary of state that it's it's
exciting exciting piece of news I know
that you're epu counterpart Gorrell
proposed that last week I believe how is
it going to work could you tell me what
what kind of the dialogue is it you and
him directly is it is it going to be
linked by a Brussels does it include
bilateral communication as well how is
it going to work
so you're right this is new in the sense
of
the proposal came from I represented
Burrell just within the last handful of
days but you should know we were very
interested in we put a big team on
working together to begin to outline the
shape of what this would look like and
I'm very hopeful that I'll be able to
travel to Europe here in just a handful
of weeks to go kick that off so we will
certainly start it as the senior level
where we will outline the mission set
and then well I don't know exactly what
shape it will take I'm confident that we
will set up a structure that will
enhance our collective shared knowledge
and our collective responses to ensuring
that we protect freedom for every
democracy on both sides of the Atlantic
is there a timeframe from this where do
you expect it to really kick off and
start operating become hopeful it
becomes very real just in the next few
weeks it's a little more difficult
because we're a little stuck in terms of
our capacity to travel but I would
expect that we will have teams in place
identified in the next weeks and then
real work to begin is something that has
a starting point that we want to kick
off but I don't know that there's an end
point where this is something that I
expect will go on for an extended period
of time because the challenge that we
are jointly trying to solve for is how
do we preserve freedom and democracy on
both sides of the Atlantic and protect
our citizens
EU citizens and American citizens alike
from the very fact set that I laid out
at the beginning of my remarks today and
knowing the European Union I myself have
covered it for over a decade I know that
these people love a good committee are
you concerned that this might sir bogged
down the the real action on the on the
pressing challenges and sort of draw out
this lengthy debate which will become
technical and so on do you love these
things and it has shown in the past a
sort of a tendency towards more or a
sort of you know discussion and a little
action do you do you fear that that
could you know be the outcome what I'm
realistic you should know Boyan that
people in America sometimes love good
committees to United States government's
not immune to that bureaucratic
phenomenon so guilty to of that from
time to time I'm very hopeful that this
will be different from that indeed what
I'm hopeful is but here Becca the first
thing we all have to do is make sure we
have a collective data set
can't take collective action unless you
have a shared understanding of the core
facts I don't think anybody would
dispute what I just laid out we should
build on that once we're confident that
we have a shared understanding of the
threat that is posed by the Chinese
Communist Party then we can begin to
take action and there's a lot of work
that's been done already there's a lot
of information that's sharing that has
already taken place what we're counting
on is this this dialogue won't be a
resistance or as you described an outlet
for energy with no action but rather a
catalyst for action so on our side we
will work to make sure we have a shared
set of facts and then create a set of
proposals for things that we can do
together but we know there's two Boyan
not everybody in the EU will share that
they'll be 27 there'll be two dozen
different views right this this is true
on many issues but I believe that by
doing this we can perform a collective
judgment and find a set of places where
there is a significant overlap and then
begin to execute the correct responses
the same way the transatlantic alliance
has always preserved democracy and
freedom a set of collective responses
that will preserve and protect those
very freedoms that the Chinese Communist
Party wants to undermine each and every
day I think in outlining this you made
two very important points first that
there is an awakening in Europe about
the rule of China and how it shapes the
global order today and also that a lot
of people are making a lot of money in
China there is a sort of a tension
between these two awareness you know
these two issues China is responsible
for much of the growth in the European
Union especially for its biggest economy
Germany and I remember last year when
President Trump was at the height of the
negotiation which
a new trade arrangement Chancellor
Merkel traveled to Beijing with a bunch
of CEOs in tow and and it sort of was
seen in some American circles as
slightly undermining the American
argument when Europe is doing business
with China and America is trying to
reconfigure the old relationship and
your counterpart mr. Birrell himself I
think said quite recently that Europe he
sort of took you from Frank Sinatra so
he explained the foreign policy as a
server we have it our way it's a third
way won't be the American Way won't be
to China its way we'll try to kind of
straddle the line and what you're saying
is basically I think you can't do that
you have to at one point you'll have to
wake up to the reality of things what
though if Europe continues to attempt to
straddle this defiant and as the divide
widens and you know a lot of people fear
that divide will widen given what's
happening over covent and so on is there
a contingency plan on your behalf on
behalf of administration what happens if
the European gesture stubbornly go
through the middle so we have big trade
relationship with China - it's a market
of a billion plus people that's
important to the United States economy
it is not necessarily an either/or but
what is required is that the rule set on
which that trade engages has to be
reciprocal it has to be fair the
Europeans know this - make no mistake
the Chinese cut the Chinese have stolen
a lot of German secrets and the German
people are worse off for that billions
of dollars of little extra property
stolen by the Chinese Communist Party
outside of Germany the hard-working
German people created that intellectual
property we worked hard for that
intellectual property built that
protected in their system and the
Chinese came and stole it they've done
it all across sure they continue to do
it they're doing in the United States as
well that's a place where we can work
very closely together it is not you have
to choose business over confronting the
Chinese Communist Party indeed
confronting the Chinese communist
party crates the opportunity for
increased wealth creation in Europe and
in the United States of America
and so us the last thing to say about
this is recall that China needs markets
to and this is what President Trump
figured out that frankly no President
had been willing to undertake before was
that China needs access to Western
knowledge Western know-how we need to
make sure that they do that through the
system of the rules-based order that has
served the transatlantic so well for all
of these years so I think the people of
Europe will demand the same thing that
the people of the United States of
America are demanding is that we no
longer allow the Chinese Communist Party
to dictate the rules and terms and
conditions of those relationships when
they're not fair and equitable to our
peoples that's what President Trump has
been seeking I'm confident that's what
the European will seek from their
leaders as well thank you and if we go
beyond the issue of China and move on to
another issue which is crucial for the
transatlantic relationship at the moment
you yourself had served during the Cold
War in Germany when I think there were
around 300,000 US troops on the ground
there there are 30,000 and President
Trump has announced that he will pull
out around 10,000 of those troops
because of a number of issues including
Germany's economic ties in the energy
with Russia Germany's failure to reach
two percent of budget payments for NATO
etc what do you I mean how would you
explain this strategic decision because
we know that US strategy strategic
analysis from the Pentagon and
everywhere else has concluded since 2014
that Russia does sort of pose a threat
to Europe and to the United States
interests how would you explain this to
your account of parts in Europe who were
some sort of surprised I think we even
saw the Polish President Duda yesterday
who visited
the white house and whose country stands
to gain from this move in terms of
getting some troops over to Poland
he himself pleaded with the president
not to do this not to pull this troops
out so what would you be your strategic
analysis here what why is this how does
this help the American interest
so several thoughts for you on first we
do consider Russia to be a serious
threat spending 1% of your GDP on
defense as Germany does acknowledges
that they may well not take it as
serious a threat as the United States of
America takes it they need to they need
to they need to live about to a
commitment that the United States made
on their behalf or not that a commitment
that the EU drove through them it's a
commitment that Germany made that it
would live up to and it is to date
chosen not to do that and the
president's been very clear that that
doesn't show the resolve then Vladimir
Putin needs to see from Germany you
reference briefly Nordstrom to pipeline
where Germany is now going to have a
significant piece of their energy
connected to Russia in such a deep and
fundamental way the bottom or Putin who
appears to now going to be in power for
quite some time is going to have the
capacity to have a real capacity inflict
real costs on Germany if he chose to do
so or threatened to do so as for our
decision
president Trump has spoken to this
secretary espera will be in London today
and in Brussels I think tomorrow he'll
talk about our plan and how we're
thinking about delivering it but you
should understand this and I hope that
you're our European partners will
understand this as well when you see
what we ultimately conclude now we
ultimately deliver on the statements
that the president made that they're
aimed squarely at what we believe to be
democracy's fundamental interests and
certainly America's most fundamental
interests it's been a long time since
there has been a strategic review of our
force posture all across the world we
undertook that starting about two and a
half years ago whether that was our
forces in Africa our forces in Asia or
the forces we have the Middle East and
in Europe we began to say these are
often decisions that were made in a
different time should we reallocate
those a different way should we have a
different composition of those forces
everyone always wants to talk about
ground troops I get it I was a young
tank officer you describe that and
there's nothing I like as much as a good
m1 tank but it's often the case that the
capacity to deter Russia or other
adversaries isn't determined any longer
by just having a bunch of folks garrison
someplace and so we really went to back
fundamentally relook what is the what is
the nature of the conflict what's the
nature of the threat and how should we
allocate our resources whether that's
our resources in the intelligence
community our resources from the Air
Force and the Marines and our broad set
of allocation of security apparatus are
our ability counter cyber threats how do
we allocate them what's the best way to
do this and the decision that you see
the president made with respect to
Germany is they as an outcome from a
collective set of decisions about how
we're going to posture our resources
around the world I'll close with this
last thought on an answer to your
question this is going to dictate that
in certain places that will be fewer
American resources there'll be other
places I just talked about the threat
from the Chinese Communist Party so now
threats to India threats to Vietnam
threats to Malaysia Indonesia South
China Sea challenges the Philippines
we're gonna make sure we're posturing
appropriately to counter the PLA we
think that's the challenge of our time
and we're gonna make sure we have
resources in place to do that to the
extent that that changed the difference
in what the United States decides to do
impacts adversely a threat someplace it
may be that other nations need to step
up and take responsibility for their own
defence in ways that they hadn't done
previously so we want to do this in full
consultation with all of our partners
all around the world and certainly our
friends in Europe and another issue that
that
similarily is sort of chipping away at
the confidence in the transatlantic
relationship here in Europe is the issue
of Iran which I think you're also
directly involved in is there any sort
of contingency planning for the
eventuality that Iran will actually
restart the nuclear program I think the
maximum pressure campaign some people
have said it works but it also may well
lead that it seems to be leading to take
Iran going back to - what was you know
the whole point of this
agreement was to avoid them striving to
achieve you know to create a nuclear
weapon what would you do in that in that
sense I mean I think you've said earlier
on CB is CB s in an interview that
you're confident they will not go there
but they seem to be suggesting they are
going there well what would you do if
they if they went there well and the
Europeans are are not on board it would
appear well the Europeans just have a
different view of how to achieve that we
fundamentally think they're wrong we've
had this conversation out for three and
a half years with them we we continue to
have a disagreement there ya know
there's no doubt the maximum pressure
campaign has been successful the
Hezbollah sphere resources we've
depleted their capacity to build out
systems that they would have built out
if we two continued to do business and
thrown wealth and money and resources at
the hyatt ola we've constrained them we
built that a big coalition to counter on
and the Gulf states and all across the
region so I'm very confident that the
approach that our administration has
taken is correct it's also true that the
Iranians have chosen not to violate
their commitments under the jcpoa was
their sovereign decision to do so in
october of this year the arms embargo
will expire that can't happen the
Iranians will be permitted to buy
weapons systems they'll become one of
the largest sellers of weapon systems
around the world they'll be able to buy
Chinese jets and Russian jets I can't
imagine that a citizen of Sylvania or
Germany or Greece or any other European
country would conclude that it was wise
to allow the Iranians to have that
capability and the capacity to generate
wealth by selling those weapon systems
and so the United States is going to
make sure that doesn't happen we have
the UN Security Council resolution that
will present in the coming weeks we are
hopeful that we will convince all of the
partners on the UN Security Council that
extending the arms embargo on Iran makes
sense was one of the central failures or
the the nuclear deal that after just a
handful of years three years plus four
years plus we're having to contemplate
the expiration of that provision which
is central to European security
not just the security of the American
people and for their nuclear program
we're watching it closely I won't say
any more than we are confident that we
have the capability collectively to
ensure that Iran never gets a nuclear
weapon and do you have the confidence
that you will not be alone in this is
there an alliance of the Willing
including European nations - to actually
you know take more significant action in
this regard look III don't know I think
the Europeans will have a very difficult
argument to make to the world that
they're not prepared to do what it takes
to extend those arms embargo don't think
any freedom-loving nation should stand
by when they have the capacity a tool a
legal mechanism to extend this arms
embargo I'm very hopeful that the
Europeans as the as the weeks tick by
here will conclude the same thing that
the United States did it's an imperative
that this arms embargo be extended and
as for the coalition there are many
countries many European countries that
are with us it's not only the case that
France and Germany and the United
Kingdom have a say in this there are
many European countries that share our
view and there's lots of countries in
the region Israel the Gulf states all of
them understand that the world's largest
state-sponsored terror and terrorism
sits squarely in Tehran and they're
prepared to be alongside opposed it
taking the actions that we need to
ensure that there's never a nuclear
weapon in the hands of the Ayatollah a
very dangerous thing for the world um I
you mentioned the Kovach 19 crisis and
that's basically the reason why we're
doing this
you know in this kind of virtual online
way there's a lot of concern about
transatlantic travel which obviously has
been obstructed by this initially the
United States closed the borders for
Europeans and now the Europeans are
drafting plans to reopen their borders
but it could appear there's a lot of
reporting and discussions that the the
European Union could sort of impose
restrictions on travel from the United
States because of the levels of
infection is there any way to get around
this I mean do you see now that
holiday season is coming obviously
business is eager to restart movement is
there any I mean you've spoken to your
counterparts about this is there any
solution that you've discussed so it's a
real challenge it's a challenge for all
of us to decide how and when to open up
our economies and our societies
everybody's trying to figure that out
from city councilmen and mayor's County
Commissioners provincial leaders across
the world governor's here in the United
States so there are enormous ly complex
issues about what the appropriate level
of activity and travel is in order to
both ensure that we get our economies
going again and provide protection of
safety for our people we're working with
our European counterparts to get that
right both today both we deny travel to
Europe and and vice versa that's the
posture that we all sit in now and I
think we're all taking seriously the
need to figure out how to get this open
we need to get a global economy back
going again there's an enormous
destruction of wealth that's created and
poverty yields bad out health outcomes
in many parts of the world we need to
get our economies back going again we'll
work closely with our European friends
broadly because I know there's different
views again inside the European Union
we've heard from a dozen or more
countries that have very different views
about their willingness to open up their
borders to anyone not only folks from
the United States of America
we'll work to get this right we want to
make sure it's science based health
based that our transportation team
homeland security team as well as the
State Department deliver a process
instead of tools so that not only our
nation's comfortable opening their
borders up again but individuals who are
making the choice to travel are
comfortable that have that they are
being protected away that's adequate so
that we will in fact not only allow
travel again but actually have people
who choose to travel again as well great
thank you let's take some questions of
the audience because we're running short
of time mr. Stephen they're longer from
the New York Times diplomatic editor
he's got a question on Syria
he says the Turks are building up their
presence there they've got up to 10,000
troops American troops are still there
so it appears that we've got more lab
with Russia to get any talk seriously
about Syria are you going to try to do
that and what are the Russians saying
appreciate that question so ambassador
jeffrey and our team are working
diligently to move forward the UN
Security Council process the
constitutional committee we're making
progress it's been terribly slow but the
questions suggest talked about leverage
look our troop presence there is
designed to work diligently to continue
to make sure that the work that we did
to destroy the Caliphate in Syria
it isn't diminishing that we continue to
have the capacity to conduct
counterterrorism operations in the
region we've made it very clear to the
Russians clear to the Iranians as well
that they need to leave this they the
millions of people who've had to flee
Syria are a direct result of Iranian and
Russian decisions we passed or came into
effect just this week an incredible
broad set of sanctions on the Syrian
regime that's had an impact already you
could you look no further than the
evaluation of the Syrian currency and
the financial challenges this is
presenting to the Assad regime we hope
that each of these actions that the
United States has taken and we've done
so with great partners from some
European countries as well that each of
these actions we have taken lead to a
political resolution that can ultimately
lead to an outcome in Syria where not
only can we begin the long effort to do
the reconstruction work that will need
to be done but all of the places that
are so burdened by Syrian refugees that
live in such terrible conditions whether
that's a Jordan or in Lebanon or in
Turkey living under very very difficult
circumstances have the opportunity one
day to return to their country and
that's the mission statement that we
have set out for our diplomatic team and
I hope that in the coming months we can
make real progress on that clear another
question from mr. hero akita from Nicky
he's asking how do you assess the result
of your meeting with China state
councilor history
and we're there any profit was there any
progress on South China Sea Hong Kong or
Korea Kobe 19 or anything of note at all
I've talked a little bit about the
meeting I don't want to say much more
about the actual conversations but
suffice it to say what I read to you
this morning about the challenges the
Chinese Communist Party still exists
even after that gathering I think we
think we were able to make clear some of
the actions that the United States is
prepared to take I also think that the
Chinese took away from this that the
world is now this isn't the United
States confronting China that the world
was not confronting China while I was
sitting there the g7 statement on Hong
Kong came out literally someone slipped
him and out telling him that statement
had come out he wanted to say this was
just the United States coming after them
for this the national security log that
is law that's pending there it's not the
challenges in the South China Sea this
isn't the United States in the United
States alone it's a dozen plus Southeast
Asian countries and Asian countries who
understand the threat so we were able to
share that there were there were no
major breakthroughs they he shared that
they have every intention of completing
our the first part of the trade deal
that we negotiated with them we hope
that that's the case we hope to fulfill
all of their commitments there another
China question from a viewer called
Dennis Amari he's asking what proof do
you have specifically that qua Wei is an
arm of the CCP surveillance stage
something which you've said no and and
you've said that before as well well
there's many things that I can't share
in an open setting but I am highly
confident that anybody who stares at
while way for very long you don't have
to go very far we know that if you go to
the top floors of huawei's commercial
building inside of China that there are
members of the Chinese security
apparatus working there more simply you
can just get on
and look at Chinese security laws it
requires companies like Huawei to share
any information that they have that
includes the private information whether
that's health care information or other
personal information of a citizen from
the Czech Republic or a citizen of
Germany or France that information if it
transits a huawei system and Huawei
captures that information they don't
need a backdoor they don't need secret
access they own the joint right then I
mean the key to the they own the
infrastructure and if that information
passes across that infrastructure and
while we has the capacity to capture it
you the most egregious privacy
violations in the world that information
will be in the hands of the Chinese
Communist Party if the Chinese Communist
Party deems it necessary to have that
information
Huawei has a legal obligation to provide
it to them that's different than I think
any place else in the world certainly
any country that has the capacity to
have this much infrastructure inside of
Western democracies telecommunication
systems is simply unacceptable a bunch
of China questions pouring in this one
is from Chris Schroeder he's asking
whether there are any shared interest
with China that could be pursued in
parallel to your campaign basically to
contain China and redefine the
relationship and I would add to that
this question if I may have used my
privilege as a moderator is there
anything you could add as an incentive
to the Europeans to come along with you
on this on this journey because so far
it's been a lot of friction and it
doesn't seem to have been you know very
effective is there any incentive that
you can actually offer them I think the
Europeans have every incentive to do
precisely what it is the United States
is doing which is to protect their own
people to demand reciprocity to demand
fair treatment to no longer say to the
Chinese Communist Party look you have a
billion people we're gonna do it your
way that's been the model in the West
for an awfully long time now I think the
Europeans have every incentive
to get this right not for the United
States not for the good of the world but
for the good of their own people so I
think there's plenty of incentives that
already exist this will have to be the
last question I want to take the first
part of that because it's a important
question yes there are a whole lot of
things that we hope we can work on with
the Chinese Communist Party but thinking
about they get to decide right we
haven't said we won't trade with them
we've simply said we're gonna trade on a
fair set of conditions we haven't said
hey we're not going to do business with
it we've said stop stealing our
intellectual property so yes there's
there's a wide field that we can choose
to work on projects with them but they
have to decide are they gonna are they
going to continue to abuse the Western
system are they going to continue to
behave in ways that no other nation
behaves when it comes to global commerce
we see what they do at the World Trade
Organization right they still hold out
their claim that they're a developed
country than one of the largest
economies in the world it's not that's
not fair that's not fair at only two
Americans and two Brits and to the Dutch
it's not fair to the developed nations
who actually as the WTO was formed were
the system was designed for and so yes I
think there's lots of places we can work
together sadly I don't see that the
Chinese Communist Party as a heck of a
lot intention of behaving in a way
consistent with what we demand from each
other in the transatlantic alliance we
we do our level best to compete and to
operate with a rules-based order where
you can go to our court systems and make
a claim that is truly adjudicated in a
fair and impartial way absent politics
that doesn't exist today foreign direct
investment inside of your operates under
from China operates under a wholly
different set of rules than European
Investment inside of China that's not
right they have access to our capital
markets in ways we don't have access to
theirs we can work on all of these
things with them but they've got to make
the decision that they conclude that
that's in their best
interest they've not done so today thank
you did you say there was a time for
another question yeah I'm sorry I'm
gonna have to run off I apologize
okay well thank you so much for being
with us great boy thank you very much
thank you for helping thanks everyone
for joining me today so on thank you
you