Oh
哦
[Music]
[音乐]
okay well I thought this time that I
好吧，我想这次是我
would actually cover some of the
实际上会覆盖一些
biblical stories so and hopefully a
圣经的故事如此并希望是
number of them as I said last time I'm
他们的数量，因为我上次说的我
going to go through this while as fast
要尽快完成这个任务
as I am able to I want to do it as
因为我能够做到这一点
completed job as possible and of course
尽可能完成工作，当然
the probability that I'll get through
我会得到的概率
the entire Bible is very low but we'll
整个圣经很低，但我们会
get through a lot of the major stories
通过大量 的主要故事得到
in the beginning of it and that's a good
在它的开始， 这是一个很好的
start and then you know assuming that
开始，然后你知道假设
this all goes well then maybe I'll try
这一切顺利，那么也许我会尝试
to do the same thing again either in the
要么再次做同样的事情
fall or next year so assuming I'm that
假设我是这样，那么下一年还是明年
everything is still working out properly
一切都还在工作正常进行
next year it's a long ways away all
明年这是一个长期的方式远离一切
right so I guess we'll start so last
对，所以我想我们会最后开始
week I talked to you about a line in the
每周我都会跟你谈谈关于一条线的问题
New Testament that was from John and it
新约是来自约翰和它
was a line that was designed to parallel
是一条设计为平行的线
the opening of Genesis and it's it's a
创世纪的开幕，这是一个
really important line and I thought I
真的很重要，我想我
would re-emphasize it because the Bible
会因为圣经而重新强调它
is a book that's been written forward
是被铭刻着一本书
and backwards in time in some sense like
并在某种意义上像时间倒退
most books because if you write a book
大多数书籍是因为如果你写书
of course when you get to the end if
当然 ，当你到结束时，如果
you're the writer you can adjust the
你是你可以调整的作家
beginning and so on so it has this odd
开始等等，所以它有这个奇怪
it has this appearance of linearity but
它具有这种线性的外观，但是
it really it isn't linear it's like
它真的不是线性的，就像
you're God in some sense standing
你在某种意义上是神
outside of time that's your book and you
时间之外，这是你的书和你
can play with time anywhere along it and
可以随时随地一起玩耍和
the people who put the book together or
谁把书堂的人或
the books together took full advantage
这些书一起充分利用
of that and and and that makes the story
那个和那个，这使得故事
it gives the story odd parallels in in
它给了这个故事奇怪的相似之处
many many places in a very large number
很多地方都有很多
of places and this is one of the major
的地方，这是主要的
parallels at least from the perspective
至少从角度来说是相似的
of the Christian interpretation of the
的基督教解释
Bible which of course includes the New
圣经当然包括新的
Testament and so there's this strange
遗嘱等都有这个奇怪的
idea that Christ was the same factor
认为基督是同样的因素
or force that God used at the beginning
或上帝在开始时使用的力量
of time to speak habitable order into
的时间说适合入住的订单
being and that's a very very strange
这是非常奇怪的
idea you know it's not it's not
想法你知道这不是不是
something that can be just easily
这可以很容易
dismissed as superstition partly because
部分因为迷信而被视为迷信
it's so strange it doesn't it doesn't
这很奇怪，但事实并非如此
even fit the definition of like a
甚至符合像a的定义
superstitious belief it's it's a
迷信的信念就是这样
dreamlike belief in some sense and what
某种意义上的梦幻般的信仰和什么
I what I see many of the ideas in the
我什么我看到很多的想法
Bible as is is these dreamlike ideas
圣经就是这些梦幻般的想法
that that under not lie are our
这是在没有说谎是我们的
normative cognition and that constitute
规范认知和构成
the ground from which are more
地面更多
articulate articulated and and explicit
清楚地表达清晰
ideas have emerged and this one's so
想法已经出现， 并且这个是如此
complicated this idea is so complicated
这个想法复杂得如此复杂
that it's still mostly embedded in
它仍然主要嵌入
dreamlike form but it seems to have
梦幻般的形式，但它似乎有
something to do with the primacy of
事做的首要地位
consciousness and this is one of the
意识，这是其中之一
biggest issues regarding the structure
关于结构的最大问题
of reality as far as I can tell because
据我所知，因为现实
everyone from physicists to
从物理学家到每个人
neurobiologists debates this there's
神经生物学家就此进行辩论
there's the the stumbling block for a
还有的绊脚石了
purely objective view of the world seems
似乎是纯粹客观的世界观
to me to be consciousness and
给我意识和
consciousness has all sorts of strange
意识有种种奇怪
properties for example it isn't obvious
属性，例如它并不明显
what constitutes time or at least
什么构成时间或至少
duration in the absence of consciousness
持续时间在没有意识的情况下
and it isn't also easy to understand
它是不是也很容易理解
what constitutes being in the absence of
什么构成在没有的情况下
consciousness because it seems to be the
意识，因为它似乎是
case well if a movie is running and
好的情况下， 如果电影正在运行和
there's no one to watch it I know it
没人看我知道
sounds like the tree and the forest
听起来就像是树和 森林
idea but it's it's not that idea at all
的想法，但它是不是这个想法在所有
if a movie is watching is running and no
如果电影正在观看正在运行并且没有
one's watching it in what sense is can
一个人从什么意义上看是可以的
you say that there's even a movie
你说甚至有电影
running because the movie seems to be
因为这部电影似乎在运行
the experience of the movie not the
电影的经验，而不是
objective elements of the movie and
电影和电影的客观因素
there's something about the world at
世界上有一些东西在
least insofar as we're in it as human
至少就我们作为人类而言
beings that is dependent on conscious
依靠意识的众生
experience of the world now of course
对世界的体验，现在当然
you can take consciousness out of the
你可以把意识带出来
world and say well if none of us were
世界，并说如果我们都不是
here if there was no such thing at
这里如果没有这样的事情
consciousness then the cosmos would
那么宇宙会意识到
continue running the way it is running
继续运行它的运行方式
but of course it depends on what exactly
但当然这取决于究竟是什么
you mean by the cosmos when you make a
你的意思是你在做宇宙时的宇宙
statement like that because there's
这样的陈述，因为有
something about the subjective
关于主观的东西
perience of reality that gives it
给予它的现实的经验
reality or at least that's one way of
现实或至少这是一种方式
looking at it and since we're all pretty
看着它，因为我们都很漂亮
enamored of our own consciousness as
迷恋于我们自己的意识
although they're painful because they
虽然他们很痛苦，因为他们
define our being it's not unreasonable
定义我们的存在并非不合理
to give consciousness a kind of
让意识成为一种
metaphysical primacy now and it's deeper
形而上学的首要地位，而且更深刻
than that you know deeper idea than that
比你知道的比更深的想法
because there are physicists and they're
因为有物理学家，他们是
not trivial physicists like like John
不像约翰那样微不足道的物理学家
Wheeler who believes that in some sense
从某种意义上说，惠勒相信这一点
consciousness plays a constitutive role
意识起着构成性的作用
in transforming the chaotic potential of
在改变混沌的潜力
being into the actuality of being he
成为他的现实
actually thinks about it he's not alive
实际上认为他没有活着
anymore but he actually thought about it
但他实际上已经想过了
as as playing a constitutive role you
就像你扮演一个构成角色一样
know and then from the neurobiological
知道然后从神经生物学
perspective or from the scientific
视角还是来自科学
perspective it's not consciousness is
透视它不是意识
not something we understand I don't
不是我们理解我不了解的东西
think we understand it at all it's
认为我们完全理解它
something we can't get a handle on with
这是我们无法得到一个手柄上
our fundamental materialist philosophy
我们的基本唯物主义哲学
and I don't know why that is it's quite
我不知道这是为什么
frustrating if you're a scientist but it
令人沮丧的是，如果你是一个科学家，但它
isn't clear to me that we've made any
我不清楚我们做了什么
progress whatsoever in understanding
理解进步
consciousness even though what we've
即使我们有什么 意识
been trying to understand it for
一直试图理解它
hundreds of years and even though
几百年， 尽管如此
psychologists and neurobiologist and so
心理学家和神经生物学家等等
forth have really like put a lot of
真的很喜欢投入很多
effort into understanding consciousness
努力去理解意识
from a scientific perspective in the
从科学的角度出发
last 50 years so anyways what it seems
过去50年，所以反正什么，似乎
to me is the idea that that God used the
对我来说就是上帝用这个想法
word to to extract order out of
单词来提取订单
habitable order out of chaos at the
适合居住的秩序在混乱
beginning of time which is roughly the
开始的时间大致是这样
right way of thinking about it seems to
考虑这个问题的正确方法 似乎
me deeply allied with the idea that what
我的想法是，我们深表结盟
it is that we do as human beings is is
我们是这样做的，因为人类就是这样
encounter something like a formless and
遇到类似无形的东西
potential chaos I mean we're not
潜在的混乱我的意思是我们不是
omniscient obviously and we can't just
无所不知显然，我们不能只
do whatever we want but we encounter a
做任何我们想要的，但我们遇到一个
formless and chaotic potential that's
无形和混乱的潜力
always what we're grappling with and
总是我们正在努力的
somehow we use our consciousness to give
不知怎的，我们用我们的意识来给予
that form and this is how people act
这种形式，这是人们如何行事
like if you look at how they regard
就像你看他们如何看待
themselves it's how they act because you
他们自己就是这样，因为你
say things to people like well you
说事的人喜欢你很好
should live up to your potential when
应该辜负你的潜力时
you make a case that there's something
你做出一个有些事情的例子
about a person that's more than what is
关于一个比现在更重要的人
that yet could be if only they
如果只有他们 ，那也可能是
participated in the process properly
参加工艺不当
and everyone knows what that means and
每个人都知道这意味着什么
no one acts like a mystery has been
没有人像一个神秘的行为一直
uttered when you say that and you know
当你这样说，你知道的时候说出
you can see a situation in your own life
你可以在自己的生活中看到一种情况
that's full of potential you're often
这是你经常发挥的潜力
extremely excited when you encounter
遇到时非常激动
something that's full of potential
一些充满潜力的东西
because what you see is something that
因为你看到的是这样的
could be you see a future beckoning for
可能你会看到未来的召唤
you that could be if only you interacted
你可能是只有你互动
with it properly and it activates your
与它正确，它激活你的
nervous system right in a very basic way
神经系统是以非常基本的方式进行的
and we even understand how that happens
我们甚至明白这是如何发生的
to the degree that we understand how the
到我们了解如何的程度
nervous system works because the systems
神经系统的工作原理，因为系统
that mediate positive emotion which are
调解积极的情绪是
governed roughly by dopa by the
由杜巴粗略管理
neurochemical dopamine and which have
神经化学多巴胺和哪些有
their roots way down in the ancient
他们的根源就在古代
hypothalamus a very very archaic and and
下丘脑非常非常古老和
fundamental part of the brain it that
大脑它的基本组成部分是
responds to potential which is the
回应潜力是这样的
possibility of accruing something new
积累新事物的可能性
and valuable it responds to potential
并且它对潜在的响应很有价值
with active movement forward and
与主动运动向前
engagement and so we're engaged in the
参与，所以我们参与了
world as potential and looks like
世界是潜在的，看起来像
consciousness does that and so there's
意识这样做，所以有
this idea that this is the main idea
这是这个主意的想法
that I think is being put forth in
我认为正在推出
Genesis one it's something like and you
创世纪之一它就像你一样
see this in mythology like from from
从神话中看到这一点
what I've been able to gather there's
这是我能够收集到的
always three causal elements that make
总是3因果的元素，使
up being at the bottom of world
在世界的底部
mythology and one is the formless
神话和一个是无形的
potential that makes up being once it's
潜在的成就一旦成为现实
interacted with and that's generally
互动， 这是普遍的
given a feminine nature and I think
考虑到女性的性质，我认为
that's because it's like the source from
那是因为它就像源头
which all things emerge and rise it's
这所有的东西出现，并超越它的
something like that it's more
像这样的事情更多
complicated than that but it's something
比这更复杂，但它是一些东西
like that and then there's some kind of
像那样，然后有某种
interpretive structure that has to
必须解释的结构
grapple with that formless potential and
抓住那无形的潜力和
that's I think that's the sort of thing
这就是我认为的那种事情
that was alluded to by Immanuel Conklin
这是伊曼纽尔康克林 提到的
when he was criticizing the notion that
当时他正在批评这个概念
all of our information comes from sense
我们所有的信息都来自意义
data which would be the pure empirical
数据将是纯粹的经验
perspective right because when you
透视权，因为当你
encounter the world you encounter it
遇到你遇到的世界
with a cognitive structure that already
已经有了认知结构
has shape and so it's already in you
已经形成，所以它已经在你身上
this structure and without that a priori
这种结构并没有这种先验
structure you wouldn't be able to take
结构，你将无法取
the formless potential and give it
无形的潜力，并给它
structure and I think that's something
结构，我认为这是一些东西
it's a can in some way to the idea of
这是一个可以在某种程度上的想法
God the Father and I'll try to develop
上帝， 我会尽力发展
that idea more it's it's the it's the
这种想法更是它的它的
notion that there's something
认为有某种东西
in all of us that transcends all of us
在我们所有人中超越我们所有人
that's deeply structural that's part of
这是深层次的结构
this ancient while I would say
这个古老而我会说
evolutionary and cultural process that
进化和文化的过程
enables us to grapple with the formless
使我们能够解决无形的问题
potential and bring forth reality
潜力并带来现实
roughly speaking and then there's the
粗略地说，然后就是这个了
final element and that element seems to
最终元素和那个元素似乎是
be something like consciousness itself
像意识本身一样
the consciousness that actually in
其实在的意识
here's in the individual so it's not
这是在个人，所以它不是
only that you have a structure it's that
只有你有一个这样的结构
the structure has the capacity for
结构有能力
action in the world and it's like it's
世界上的行动，就像它
your this your the spirit that gives the
你的这种精神赋予了你
dead structure life it's something like
死的结构生活就像是
that and as far as I can tell the
这一点，据 我可以告诉
Trinitarian notion that characterizes
三位一体的概念的特点
Christianity is something like well
基督教很好
formless potential which is never given
永不放弃的无形的潜力
a the status of a deity in Christianity
基督教中神的地位
and then the notion that there's an a
然后有一个概念
priori interpretive structure that's a
先验的解释结构，这是一个
consequence of our ancient existence as
我们作为古代存在的后果
beings it goes back as far in time as
众生它可以追溯到的时间
you can go the notion of a structure and
你可以去一个结构的概念和
then the idea of a consciousness that
那么意识的想法就是这样
that is the is the tool of that
这是是该工具
structure and that interacts with the
结构并与之相互作用
world and gives it and gives it reality
世界并赋予它并赋予它现实
and that's the word as far as I can tell
就我所知，这就是这个词
and so the notion is is that there's a
所以概念是有一个
father and that's the structure and
父亲，那就是结构和
there's a son that's transcendent that
有一个儿子，就是那超越
characterizes consciousness itself and
表征意识本身和
that it's the son the speaking of the
这是儿子的发言
son that is the active principle that
儿子就是那个活跃的原则
turns chaos into order and god it's such
把混乱变成秩序，上帝就是这样
a sophisticated ideas as far as I'm
一个复杂的想法，就我而言
concerned because well there's something
有关，因为有一些东西
about it that's at least predominately
关于它至少占主导地位
accurate because you do have an
准确，因为你有一个
interpretive structure and you couldn't
解释结构，你不能
understand anything without it your very
明白什么， 没有它你的
body is an interpretive structure right
身体是一种解释性结构权利
it's been crafted over let's say three
它已经制作完了，让我们说三个
billion years of evolution without that
如果没有这个，亿万年的进化
you wouldn't be able to perceive
你将无法感知
anything and it's taken a lot of death
任何事情，它都会带来很多的死亡
and struggle and tragedy to produce you
挣扎和悲剧来创造你
the thing that's capable of encountering
这是能够遇到的事情
this immense chaos that surrounds us and
这种围绕着我们和周围的巨大混乱
to transform it into habitable order and
把它变成可居住的秩序和
then there's the idea - of course it's
那么就有这个想法 - 当然是这样
deeply embedded in the first chapters of
深深植根于 第一章
Genesis which is a staggering idea you
创世纪这是一个惊人的想法你
know and and certainly not one that's
知道，当然不是那样的
likely that human beings were made in
可能是人类被制造出来的
the M
M
of God both male and female were made in
上帝的男性和女性 中作了
the image of God and that's of course a
上帝的形象，这当然是
very difficult thing to understand
很难理解
partly because the God that's referred
部分原因是因为提到的上帝
to in the in those chapters has a kind
在那些章节中有一种
of polytheistic element although it's an
多神论元素尽管它是一个
element that's moving rapidly towards a
元素迅速 走向一个
unified monotheism but it's not also
统一的一神论，但它不是还
obvious to me why people would come up
明显，我为什么人们会走过来
with that concept because I don't really
与概念，因为我真的不
think that when we think about each
认为当我们考虑每一个时
other we immediately think God like you
其他我们立即认为上帝喜欢你
know the notion that every single human
知道 每一个人的概念
being regardless of their peculiarities
而无论 其特殊性
and strangeness --is and sins and crimes
和陌生 - 是罪和罪
and all of that has something divine in
所有这些都有神圣的东西
them that needs to be regarded with
他们需要被视为
respect and that plays an integral role
尊重和发挥着不可或缺的作用
at least an analogy an analogous role in
至少类比是一个类似的角色
the creation of habitable order out of
创建可居住的命令
chaos that's a magnificent remarkable
这是一个非常了不起的混乱
crazy idea and yet we developed it and I
疯狂的想法，但我们开发它和我
do firmly believe that it sits at the
坚定地相信它坐落在
base of our legal system I think it is
我认为这是我们法律体系的基础
the cornerstone of our legal system
我们法律制度的基石
that's the notion that everyone is equal
这就是人人平等的观念
before God which is of course a
在上帝面前，这当然是
completely that's such a strange idea
完全是这样一个奇怪的想法
it's very difficult to understand how
这很难理解
anybody could have ever come up with
任何人都可以曾经拿出
that idea because the manifold
那个想法因为多方面
differences between people are so so
人与人之间的差异是如此
obvious and so evident that you could
显而易见的，你可以
say the natural way of viewing someone
说看到某人的自然方式
is or human beings is in this extremely
或者是人类在这个极端
hierarchical manner where some people
等级方式在哪里有人
are contemptible and and and easily
是轻而易举的
brushed off as pointless and
刷过作为无意义和
pathological and and without value
病态和没有价值
whatsoever and all the power accrues to
无论如何，所有的权力累积起来
a certain tiny you know aristocratic
一个你认识贵族的小人
minority at the top but if you look at
顶部的少数民族， 但如果你看
the way that the idea of the individual
个人的想法的方式
sovereignty developed it's clear that it
主权开发很明显，它
unfolded over thousands and perhaps ten
展现了数千甚至十个展览
thousands of years before it became
千百年来它成为前
something firmly fixed in the
东西牢牢地固定在
imagination that each individual had
每个人都有想象力
something of transcendent value about
有关超越价值的东西
them and man I tell you we dispense with
他们和男人，我告诉你，我们免去了
that idea at our serious peril and so
那个想法在我们严重的危险之中等等
and if you're going to take that idea
如果你打算采取这个想法
seriously then which you do because you
严重的是你因为你而做了什么
act it out because otherwise you
实施它，否则你
wouldn't be law abiding citizens right
不会成为守法公民的权利
you act that idea out it's it's it's
你将这个想法表达出来就是了
it's firmly shared by by everyone who
每个人都坚决赞同
Ochs in a civilized manner the question
奥克斯以文明的方式提出了这个问题
is why in the world do you believe it
这就是你为什么相信它的原因
assuming that you believe what you act
假设你相信你的行为
out which i think is a really good way
我认为这是一个非常好的方法
of fundamentally defining belief so all
从根本上定义所有信仰
right so so that's the sort of ideas
对，所以这就是这种想法
that there's this this god of tradition
这就是这个传统的神
and structure that's that's God the
和那是上帝的结构
Father who uses the Sun which is more of
父亲是谁使用Sun其中更多的是
an active force and and primarily
主动和主要
something that's verbal which I also
我也是口头上的东西
think is extremely interesting because
认为是非常有趣的，因为
it's associated not with thought
它与思想不相关
precisely but with speech and I think
精确而言，但我想
the reason for that is is that there's
原因是这样的
something to speech that's more than
不止是言语
mere thought and I think part of the
仅仅是思想而我认为是其中的一部分
reason for that is that speech is a
原因是那个演讲是一个
public utterance and at least in
公开言论，至少在英国
principle speech is something that's
原则性演讲是这样的
shaped by the existence of of everywhere
由到处存在而塑造
of everyone else at least across time
其他人至少在不同时间
because when you speak you your speeches
因为当你讲你的演讲时
is put forward in the world as a causal
作为一种因果关系在世界上被提出来
element and it's also subject to
元素，它也受制于
criticism and and and cooperation and
批评与和合作
mutual shaping and so there's an idea
相互塑造，所以有一个想法
here too that speech is that that the
这里也是这个讲话是的
cognitive processes that bring habitable
认知过程带来可居住
reality out of out of uninhabitable
现实脱离不可居住
chaos have this collective and public
混乱有这个集体和公众
element which which is part of the
元素是哪一部分的
reason by the way that an advocate of
通过一个倡导者的方式推理
free speech let's say above all because
自由言论首先要说，因为
I don't think although it is the case
我不认为这是事实
for example in the Canadian Bill of
例如在加拿大法案
Rights that every single right has equal
每一项权利都拥有平等的权利
value that's the theory it's an idiotic
值是理论这是一个愚蠢的
theory because it's absolutely
理论，因为它是绝对的
impossible for a large set of race to
不可能一大组比赛进行 到
have absolutely equal standards statuses
有完全相同的标准状态
that cannot happen there's no way that
那不可能发生，没有办法
that can never work but that is the
那永远无法工作，但那是事实
legal judgment but I think it's a huge
法律判断，但我认为这是一个巨大的
mistake because free speech has this
错误，因为言论自由有这个
while this divine quality let's say that
而这神圣的品质让我们这样说
you can't escape from because it's the
你无法逃避，因为它是
thing that manufactures everything else
制造一切的东西
you know it's and so and I do think that
你知道它的等等 ，我确实认为，
the the dream that you could think of as
你能想到的梦想
encapsulated in the stories in Genesis
封装在创世纪的故事中
is is the dream by which human beings
是人类的梦想
dreamed up the idea that we would now
梦见了的想法，我们现在
consider consciousness because you know
考虑意识，因为你知道
it took us a long time to figure out the
我们花了很长时间才弄清楚
word consciousness it's not like it's
词意识它不是这样
bloody obvious
血腥明显
it knows how many thousands of years or
它知道多少万的年
who knows what struggles we had to
谁知道我们不得不努力
undertake to abstract out something like
承诺抽象出类似的东西
consciousness and how we had to
意识和我们如何
represent that dramatically say or
代表那戏剧性的说或
symbolically or in a dreamlike fashion
象征性地或以梦幻般的方式
before we could actually formulate the
然后才能真正制定出来
term and and localize that to some
长期和本地化的一些
degree in people it's very sophisticated
人们的程度非常复杂
so so John makes the case that well
所以约翰很好地说明了这一点
there's there's an emanation of God or
那里有上帝的气息
an element of God the transcendent
超越神的元素
consciousness it's something like that
意识是类似的东西
that acts directly and in a sort of
直接和作用在几分
living way with the with the underlying
与底层的生活方式
potential of the world and I think that
世界的潜力，我认为，
that's phenomenologically accurate and I
这在现象学上是准确的，而我
do think that that's the way we regard
确实认为这就是我们所关注的方式
our lives because you know when you
因为你知道我们的生活
think about it too we tend to think that
想一想，我们也倾向于这样想
what you encounter when you're looking
你在看什么时会遇到什么
at the world is the material world but
在世界是物质世界，但
that isn't how you act you do act as if
这不是你如何行事，你的行为就好像
you're in a place of potential and also
你在一个地方的潜力，也
in a place of potential that you can
在一个有潜力的地方，你可以
actually transform which is also
实际上也是变换
something extraordinarily strange you
有点奇怪你
know because we do treat each other as
知道是因为我们相互对待
if we're capable of bringing new forms
如果我们能够带来新的形式
into the world in some permanent manner
以某种永久的方式进入世界
right and we treat each other as if we
正确，我们相互对待，就好像我们一样
have free choice and free will and
有自由选择和自由意志和
perhaps we don't but it's certainly the
也许我们不会，但它肯定是
case that societies that are predicated
案例是那些被预测的社会
on the idea that we don't don't do very
关于我们不这样做的想法
well and societies that are predicated
以及预测的社会
on the idea that we do seem to do a lot
我们确实做了很多事情
better
更好
Plus people tend to get very annoyed at
加上人们往往会非常恼火
you if you treat them like they're
你如果你像对待他们一样
automatons that lack freewill there's
那些缺乏自由意志的自动机器
something that people find very I would
这是人们发现我会的
say constraining slave-like about that
说约束奴隶就是这样
even you know that that's a demand that
即使你知道这是一个需求
you don't have actual autonomy and even
你没有实际的自主权，甚至没有
worse that you're not responsible for
更糟糕的是，你不负责任
your choices it's an insult to someone
你的选择是对某人的侮辱
to suggest to them that they're not
向他们建议他们不是
responsible for their choices you know
负责你所知道的选择
you usually to do that to someone from a
你通常做的人从
legal perspective you have to argue
法律观点你必须争论
something like diminished capacity right
像容量权利减少了
well you're mentally ill or you don't
好吧，你精神病或者你没有
have the intellectual capacity or or or
具有智力能力或或或
you were or you were addled by some
你是或者你被一些人吞没了
substance or you had a brain injury or
物质或你有脑损伤或
something and that's why you're not
这就是为什么你不是
responsible for your actions otherwise
否则负责你的行为
part of the respect that you get
你得到的部分尊重
to another human being is the assumption
对另一个人是假设
that they're responsible for their
他们对他们负责
actions and some of that can be well if
行动和其中一些可以很好，如果
you do something bad then you're
你做的不好，那么你就是
responsible for it but part of that too
对此负责，但也是其中的一部分
is that if you do something good you're
如果你做得很好，你就是
also responsible for that and that also
也负责这一点，也是
seems necessary because I mean do you
似乎是必要的，因为我的意思是你
really I mean it's got to be more
真的，我的意思是它应该更多
annoying than anything else you can
讨厌比任何你可以
imagine to strive virtuously let's say
想象一下，尽情地努力让我们说
to produce something of extreme value
产生极端价值的东西
and then to be treated as if that was a
然后被当作是一个对待
mere deterministic outcome and that your
仅仅是确定性的结果，而你的
your actual choices have nothing to do
你的实际选择无关
with that I mean people find that sort
我的意思是人们可以找到那种
of thing extraordinarily punishing and
惩罚和惩罚的东西
so I'm willing to you know I mean I know
所以我愿意你知道我的意思是我知道
that there are debates about all these
有关于所有这些的辩论
things and debates about free will and
事情和辩论关于自由意志和
debates about the nature of
关于性质的辩论
consciousness but I'm trying to take a
意识， 但我试图采取一个
clearer look at how people act and how
更清楚地看待人们如何行事和如何行事
they want to be treated and then to
他们想得到治疗，然后去
trace it back to these old ideas to see
追溯到这些古老的想法看
if there's some if there's some
如果有一些，如果有一些
metaphysical let's say metaphysical
形而上学让我们说形而上学
connection so all right so here's how
连接，所以这是如何
the here's how the book opens in the
这里是这本书如何打开的
beginning God created the heavens and
开始创造天堂和天堂
the earth the earth was without form and
地球是没有形式和地球的
void and darkness was over the face of
空虚和黑暗是在面对
the deep and the Spirit of God was
上帝的灵和深处是
hovering over the face of the waters now
现在运行在水面上的脸
this is a hard this is a hard what would
这是一个很难，这是一个很难的事情
you call narrative section to get a
你称叙述部分得到一个
handle on because in order to understand
为了理解而处理
it properly you have to actually look
它正确地你必须真正看
behind it so there are a lot of pieces
它后面有很多碎片
of old stories in the Old Testament that
旧约中的旧故事
flesh out the meaning of these lines and
充实这些线条和意义
I can I can give you a quick overview of
我可以给你一个快速的概述
it one of the ideas that lurks
它是潜伏的想法之一
underneath these lines although you
在这些线下面， 尽管你
can't tell because it's in English you
不能说， 因为它是英文的你
have to look at the original languages
必须看看原始语言
and of course I don't speak the original
当然我不会讲原文
languages so I've had to use secondary
语言，所以我不得不使用次要的
sources too bad for me but the the the
对我来说太糟糕了，但是对我来说太糟糕了
without form and void and the deep idea
没有形式，无效和深刻的想法
you see that's associated with this
你看到这与此有关
notion of endless deep potential so for
因此，为无尽的深潜力的概念
example the words that are
例如， 是的话
use to represent without form and void
用来表示没有形式和无效
or something like well one is toll I'm
或者类似的东西，我就是收费
going to get this partly wrong toll who
要得到这个部分错误收费谁
elbow who and another one is tailed and
肘谁和另一个是尾巴和
it's important to know this because
知道这一点很重要，因为
those words are associated with an early
这些词与早期相关
mess earlier Mesopotamian word which is
混淆早期的美索不达米亚文字
Tiamat and timeout was a dragon-like
提亚马特和超时时间是龙状的
creature who represented the salt water
代表咸水的生物
and and timeout had a husband named AB
和超时有一个叫AB的丈夫
so and timeout adapts who were sort of
所以和超时适应谁是有点
locked together and kind of a sexual
锁在一起，有点性
embrace and it was that locking together
拥抱和锁定在一起
of time at a nap sue and I would say
在午睡时间， 我会说
that's potential and order something
这是潜力和订购的东西
like that or chaos in order they were
这样的混乱或 为了他们
locked together and it was that union of
锁定在一起，那就是那个联盟
chaos and order that gave rise in the
混乱和秩序，引起了
old Mesopotamian myth which is the Anu
这是阿努古老的美索不达米亚神话
male ish to the to the two being to the
男性对这两个人来说是这样的
old gods first and then eventually as
老神，然后最终成为
creation progressed to human beings
创造发展到人类
themselves and so there's this idea
他们自己，所以有这个想法
lurking underneath this these initial
潜伏在这些最初的底下
lines that God is akin to that which
上帝与此类似的线条
confronts the unknown and carves it into
面对未知并将其刻入
pieces and makes the world out of its
并让世界摆脱它的困境
pieces and the thing that it confronts
件和它面临的事情
is something like a well it's something
就像一个好东西一样
like a predatory reptile or something
像掠食性爬行动物或其他东西
like a dragon or it's something like a
就像一条龙，或者它就像一条
serpent and I think part of the reason
蛇和我认为部分原因
for that and this this is this is a very
为此，这是这是一个非常
deep and ancient idea is that this is
深刻和古老的想法是，这是
where it gets so complicated to do the
那里做得太复杂了
translation is partly that is how human
翻译部分是怎样的人
beings created our world like we went
众生像我们去的那样创造了我们的世界
out beyond the confines of our safe
超出我们保险箱的范围
spaces let's say our space our safe
空间让我们说我们的空间我们的安全
space is defined by by the tree or
空间由树或者定义
defined by the fire and we actively
由火和我们积极定义
voyaged outward to the places that we
向外运到我们的地方
were afraid of and didn't understand and
害怕的，不明白和
conquer and conquered and encountered
征服，征服和遇到
things out there like like ant like
那里的东西就像蚂蚁一样
literally animals like mammoths and
从字面上看，动物就像猛犸象和野兽一样
snakes and predators of all sorts and it
蛇和各种各样的食肉动物
was as a consequence of that active
那是积极的结果
brave engagement with the domain of what
勇于接触的领域是什么
we did not understand the terrifying
我们不了解可怕的事情
domain of what we did not understand
我们不明白的领域
that the world in fact was generated and
事实上这个世界是由这个世界产生的
that idea lurks be plea inside that the
那个想法潜伏在那里
opening lines of of genesis and it's and
创世纪的开始和它的和
it's a profound idea in my estimation
我估计这是一个深刻的想法
and i think
我想
see I think also that the way our brains
看到我还认为我们的大脑的方式
are structured and this is something
结构化， 这是一些东西
that I'm going to try to develop more
我将尝试开发更多
today is that the ancient circuits that
今天是那古老的电路
our ancestors used to deal with the
我们的祖先用来对付这个
space beyond which they had already
他们已经超出了这个空间
explored that would be home territory
探索这将是本土领土
that so that's that unknown territory
那就是那个未知的领域
that's that's characterized by promise
这就是承诺的特点
because there are new things out there
因为那里有新东西
but also by intense danger right because
但也由于强烈的危险
we're prey animals especially millions
我们特别是数百万的猎物
of years ago when we were very young we
多年前我们很小的时候
had to go out there and encounter things
必须出去并遇到事情
that were terribly dangerous and there
这是非常危险的，有
was a kind of let's say paternal courage
是一种让我们说父权的勇气
that went along with that and it was
随之而来的就是这样
that the spirit of paternal courage that
那是父亲的勇气精神
enabled the conquering of the unknown
使未知的征服成为可能
and there's no difference between the
并没有什么区别
conquering of the unknown and the
征服未知的和
creation of habitable order and the
创造可居住的秩序和
thing is is that as our cognitive
事情是，作为我们的认知
faculties have developed to the point
学院已经发展到了这一点
where we're capable of very high levels
我们能够达到非常高的水平
of abstraction the underlying biological
抽象的基础生物
architecture has remained the same and
架构一直保持不变
so I don't think that it's too much to
所以我不认为这太多了
say at all that the the circuits that
说一切， 那些电路
you that engage you for example when
例如，当你参与你的时候
you're having an argument about
你有一个争论
something fundamental with someone that
一些基本的东西
you love and so you're trying to
你爱，所以你试图
structure the world around you jointly
共同构筑你周围的世界
to create a habitable space that you can
创造一个可以居住的空间
both exist within you're using the same
两者都存在于你正在使用的相同
circuits the extracted version you're
电路提取你的版本
using the same circuits that our archaic
使用与我们古老相同的电路
ancestors would have used when they went
当他们去时，祖先会使用它
out into the unknown itself to encounter
进入未知本身遇到
beasts and and and predators and and
野兽和和和掠夺者和
geographical unknowns it's the same
地理未知数是一样的
circuit it's just that we do it
这只是我们做的
abstractly now instead of concretely but
现在抽象地而不是具体地，但是
of course it has to be the same circuit
当然它必须是相同的电路
because evolution evolution Ares is a
因为进化演化战神是一个
very conservative force and what else
非常保守的力量，还有什么
would it be and this is also why I think
它会是什么，这也是我认为的原因
it's so easy for us to demonize those
它很容易让我们妖魔化
people who are enemies because our
因为我们而成为敌人的人
enemies confront us with what we don't
敌人面对我们，而我们不会
want to with what we don't want to see
想要用我们不想看到的东西
and they and because of that our first
和他们，因为我们的第一个
response is to use snake circuit or
回应是使用蛇电路还是
snake detection circuitry on them and
蛇和他们的检测电路
that accounts for our capacity almost
这几乎占我们的能力
immediate capacity to demonize and and
直接妖魔化和和的能力
there's a reason for that it's not a
还有一个原因它不是一个
trivial thing first of all it's a very
首先它是一件非常重要的事情
fast respond
快速响应
and second of all it's a response that
其次，这是一个回应
has worked for a very very very long
已经工作了很长时间
time and so you know one of the variants
时间，所以你知道其中的一个变种
of the hero and I would consider a
的英雄，我会考虑一个
variant of the hero a like a fragment of
英雄的变体像片段一样
the picture of God is is the heroic
上帝的图像是英雄
warrior who slays the enemy right and of
战士谁杀死敌人的权利和
course that's not precisely a
当然，这不完全是
politically correct representation of
政治上正确表示
the hero in modern times and well in no
近代英雄，没有
wonder but it's still something that you
不知道， 但它仍然是你 的东西
go watch in movies all the time and
一直在看电影
admire right it's it's like this one of
很欣赏它就像这个一样
the most how many plots are there
最多的地块在那里
romance and adventure that's about it
浪漫和冒险就是这样
and most of the adventure genre is well
而大部分的冒险类型都很好
there's some enemy that's lurking in
有一些潜伏的敌人
some form it could be human it could be
它可能是人类的某种形式
alien and someone rises up to go and
外星人和某人上升去和
confront it maintain order you know it's
面对它维持秩序你知道它的
like there's no getting away from that
就像没有摆脱那样
story and and if you don't have that in
故事和如果你没有
your own life then you play a video game
你自己的生活，然后你玩一个电子游戏
where that's happening or you watch a
那里正在发生或者你正在看一个
movie where that's happening you read a
电影在哪里发生， 你读了一个
book where that's happening and it
预订那里正在发生的事情和它
captures you even if you're atheistic
即使你是无神论者也能抓住你
and your only religion is star wars you
而你唯一的宗教就是星球大战
know and and it's still well really
知道并且它仍然很好
really right it really it still captures
真的对，它仍然捕获
your imagination and you act like
你的想象力，你像
someone who's possessed by religious
有宗教信仰的人
fervor when you line up for three days
当你排队三天时激动
to be the first one into the theater you
成为第一个走进 剧场你
know and all the while claiming that
知道并一直声称这一点
you're atheistic to the core it's like
你对这个核心无神论
okay so this this without form and void
好吧，所以这没有形式和无效
is this chaotic and it said it's hard
这是混乱的，它说这很难
thing that it's a hard thing to get a
这是一件很难得到的事情
grip on you know what exactly this means
你握知道究竟这意味着
but I can give you another kind of
但我可以给你另一种
example of how you would experience the
你将如何体验的 例子
formless chaos of potential in your own
在你自己的潜力无形的混乱
lives and and even how the order that
生活和甚至如何秩序
you currently inhabit can dissolve into
你目前居住的可以溶入
that and you know in Dante's Inferno
那和你在但丁的地狱中所知道的一样
when he outlined the levels of Hell so
当他概述了地狱的水平，使
Dante was trying to get to the bottom of
但丁正试图达到最低点
what constituted evil really in this
这件事确实构成了邪恶
representation so it's a work of
表示，所以这是一个工作
psychology and he's thinking well there
心理学， 他在那里思考得很好
are various ways to behave reprehensibly
各种各样的方式来表现reprehensibly
but there's a hierarchy of reprehensible
但有一个应该受谴责的等级
behavior and there's something
行为，还有一些东西
absolutely the worst at the bottom and
绝对是最糟糕的
and
和
Daunte believe that it was betrayal and
Daunte认为这是背叛和
and i think that's right because you
我认为这是正确的，因为你
know one of the things that enables a
知道其中一件事情，使一个
long-term cooperation peaceful
长期合作和平
cooperation between people is trust and
人与人之间的合作是信任和
i would also say that trust is the
我也会说，信任是
fundamental natural resource there's
基本的自然资源有
been some very good books written on the
写了一些非常好的书籍
economic utility of trust for example in
信任的经济效用，例如
societies where the default economic
社会默认经济
presupposition between trading partners
贸易伙伴之间的假设
is trust tend to be rich even if they
即使他们信任也往往很丰富
don't have any natural resources and you
没有任何自然资源和你
can see that for example with what
可以看到，例如什么
happened with ebay which I think was a
发生在eBay上，我认为它是
kind of miracle because what should have
因为应该有什么奇迹
happened with eBay was that you sent me
与eBay发生的是你发给我的
junk and I sent you a check that bounced
垃圾，我寄给你一张支票，反弹
right and that was the end of eBay but
没错，那是eBay的终结，但是
right right exactly but that isn't what
正确的权利，但这不是什么
happened like the default the default
发生像默认的默认
transaction on eBay was so honest that
在eBay上交易的是那么诚恳，
the brokers you could hire brokers to
你可以聘请经纪人来经纪
begin with I can't remember what they
首先我不记得他们是什么
were called exactly but you could pay
被称为完全但你可以支付
someone a fee so that they would
有人收取费用，以便他们愿意
guarantee the transaction so you know
保证交易，让你知道
you wouldn't send me junk and I'd
你不会送我垃圾，我会
actually send you a payment and we'd pay
实际上向您发送付款，我们会支付
10 percent for someone to guarantee that
10％的人为了保证这一点
the default trade was so honest that
默认的贸易是非常老实，所以
those things vanished right away and so
这些东西马上消失等等
that meant that all this frozen capital
这意味着所有这些冻结的资本
roughly speaking which were all the junk
粗略地说，这些都是垃圾
that people had lying around that
人们已经躺在那里
someone else might want instantly became
别人可能想立即成为
money and the only reason that worked
钱， 只有工作的原因
was because people trusted one another
是因为人们相互信任
and so Trust is an unbelievably powerful
所以信任是一个令人难以置信的强大
economic force may be the most powerful
经济力量可能是最强大的
economic force anyways if you have a
无论如何，如果你有一个 经济力量
relationship with someone it's
与某人的 关系
predicated on trust and part of the
以信任和部分为基础
reason for that is that Trust is what
原因是信任是什么
enables us to look at each other without
使我们无需看彼此
running away screaming and what I mean
逃跑尖叫，我的意思是
by that is that if I trust you then I
由是，如果我信任你，然后我
don't have to take into account how
不必考虑如何
complicated you are because you're
你是复杂的，因为你是
horribly complicated to know I think
知道我的想法非常复杂
chimpanzee full of snakes that's what a
黑猩猩充满了蛇，这是什么
human being is and as long as you'll do
人是只要 你会做
what you say you'll do then I can take
你说你会做什么，然后我可以采取
you at your word and your word
你在你的话和你的话
simplifies you and you can take me at my
简化你，你可以把我带到我的
word and my word simplifies you and then
单词和我的话简化你，然后
we can act like we understand each other
我们可以像我们彼此了解
even though we don't but then if that
即使我们不这样做，但如果那样的话
trust is betrayed then all the snakes
那么所有的蛇都会被背叛
come forth very very rapidly and so all
出现得非常迅速等等
of you I suspect have been
我怀疑你的
trade one way or another and so what
交易拉上还等什么
happens if you're in a relationship with
如果你与某人有关系，会发生
someone and you trust them then you make
有人和你相信他们，然后你做出
certain assumptions about the past and
关于过去和现在的某些假设
you make certain assumptions about the
您作出的某些假设
present and you make certain assumptions
目前和你做出某些假设
about the future and everything's stable
关于未来，一切都很稳定
and so you're standing on solid ground
所以你站在坚实的基础上
and the chaos it's like you're standing
和混乱它就像你站在
on thin ice the chaos is hidden the
在薄薄的冰面上 隐藏着混乱
shark beneath the waves isn't there
海浪下的鲨鱼不在那里
you're safe you're in the lifeboat but
你很安全，但你在救生艇上
then if the person betrays you like if
那么如果这个人如果背叛了你
you're in an intimate relationship and
你在亲密关系
the person has an affair and you find
这个人有外遇， 你会发现
out about it then then you think one
然后你会想到一个
moment you're one place right you're
一刻， 你就是一个地方
where everything is secure because
一切都是安全的，因为
you've predicated your perception of the
你已经预测你对这个问题的看法
world on the axiom of trust and the next
世界上的信任和下一个公理
second really the next second you're in
第二次真的是你接下来的第二秒
a completely different place and not
一个完全不同的地方，而不是
only is that place different right now
现在只是那个地方不同
the place you were years ago is
你几年前的地方是
different and the place you're going to
不同的，你要去的地方
be in the future years hence is
未来几年就是这样
different and so all of that certainty
不同的以及所有这些确定性
that strange certainty that you inhabit
你居住的奇怪的确定性
can collapse into incredible complexity
可以陷入令人难以置信的复杂性
and you say well if someone betrays you
如果有人背叛了你 ， 你说得好
you think well okay who were you because
你觉得很好，你是谁，因为
you weren't who I thought you were and I
你不是我以为你和我是谁
thought I knew you
我以为我认识你
but I didn't know you at all and I never
但我根本不认识你，我从来不认识你
knew you and so all the things we did
知道你和所以 我们做的事情
together those weren't the things that I
这些不是我的事情
thought were happening something else
思想发生了其他事情
was happening and you're you or someone
正在发生，你是你或某人
else and that means I'm someone else
别的，那意味着我是别人
because I thought I knew what was going
因为我想我知道发生了什么事情
on and clearly I don't I'm some sort of
很明显，我不知道我是某种人
blind sucker or the or the victim of a
盲人吸盘或者受害者
psychopath or someone who's so naive
精神病患者或某个天真的人
that they can barely live and I don't
他们几乎不能活，而我却没有
understand anything about human beings
了解有关人类的任何事情
and they don't understand anything about
他们对此一无所知
myself and I have no idea where I am now
我自己和我不知道我现在在哪里
I thought it was at home but I'm not I'm
我以为它在家，但我不是我
in a house and it's full of strangers
在一个房子里，它充满了陌生人
and I don't know what I'm going to do
我不知道我要做什么
tomorrow or next week or next year it's
明天或下周或明年是
like all of that certainty that
像所有这些确定的那样
habitable certainty it collapses right
可居住的确定性它崩溃的权利
back into the potential from which it
回到它的潜力
emerged and that's a terrifying thing
出现了，这是一件可怕的事情
that's a journey to the underworld from
这是从黑社会的旅程
a mythological perspective and that is
这是一个神话视角
really something worth knowing because
真的值得了解，因为
you know journeys to the underworld are
你知道黑社会的旅程
extraordinarily common in mythological
在神话中非常普遍
stories and you know like The Hobbit
故事，你知道像霍比特人
going out to find a Smaug the dragon and
走出去寻找一条史矛革龙
and get the gold as a journey into the
并获得黄金作为一个旅程进入
underworld and journeys to the
黑社会和旅程
underworld how
黑社会如何
and all the time and modern people don't
所有的时间和现代人都不会
understand what the Wonderworld is
了解Wonderworld是什么
except that we've all been there and we
除了我们都在那里和我们
go there all the time and we go there
一直去那里，我们去那里
every time the solidity and stability of
每一次的坚固性和稳定性
the world that we've erected at least
至少我们建立的世界
partly through our speech is shattered
部分通过我们的讲话破灭了
because while some sort of snake appears
因为虽然出现了某种蛇
that's another way of thinking about it
这是考虑这个问题的另一种方式
that it's a really good way of thinking
这是一个非常好的思考方式
about it because you know no matter how
它，因为你知道无论怎样
carefully you construct a little
小心你构建一点
habitable area that surround you there's
你周围有可居住区域
always something you didn't take into
总是你没有考虑到的东西
account and there's always something
帐户，总是有一些东西
that can pop up its head and do you in
那可以突然冒出头来让你进入
and make you aware of your mortality and
并让你意识到你的死亡率和
and age you for that matter or even kill
并为此而老化，甚至杀死
you and that's the permanent that's the
你和那是永久的
permanent situation of life which is
这是永久的生活状况
part of the reason why I think the story
我认为这个故事的部分原因
of Adam and Eve for example is
亚当和夏娃的例子是
archetypal it's because we do inhabit
原型这是因为我们居住
walled gardens right because a walled
围墙花园的权利，因为一个围墙
garden is half structure Society and
花园是半结构社会和
half nature that's what a walled garden
半自然，这是一个围墙花园
is and a walled garden is a place of
是和围墙花园是一个地方
paradise and warmth and and and and and
天堂和温暖，和和和
and love and and and sustenance but it's
和爱，并且寄托， 但它是
also the place where something can pop
也是在东西可以在弹出的地方
up at any moment and knock you out of it
多达在任何时刻敲它 ，你出来
and I think part of the reason that that
我认为的原因，一部分
story exists at the beginning of this
故事存在于今年年初
collection of books is because it
收藏书籍是因为它
explains the eternal situation of human
解释人类永恒的状况
beings we're always in that situation
我们总是处于这种状况
we're in a walled garden or we bloody
我们在一个有围墙的花园里，或者我们是血腥的
well hope we are but there's always a
很希望我们是，但总是有一个
snake and then it's even worse because
蛇，然后它更糟，因为
if there is a snake or exactly the sort
如果有蛇或者完全是这样的
of creatures who are going to do nothing
生物谁要做 什么
but go and interact with that state the
但去与该州的互动
second that we can manage it you know
第二， 我们可以管理它，你知道
it's it's definitely the case that if
这是肯定的情况下，如果
you want a human being to muck around
你想要一个人来捣乱
with something the best thing to do is
最好的事情是做什么
to tell them not ever to do it have
告诉他们永远不要这样做
anything to do with it which is of
任何与它这是
course something you know if you have
当然你知道的东西，如果你有
teenagers or even children or or if you
青少年甚至是儿童或者如果你
know anything about yourself or your
知道你自己或你的任何事情
partner so these stories are trying to
这些故事正在努力的合作伙伴
express what you might describe as an
表达你可能会形容为一个
unchanging transcendent reality you know
不变的超越现实， 你知道
it's it's something like what's common
这就是常见的东西
across all human experience across all
跨越所有人类所有体验
time and that's what young essentially
时间，这就是年轻人的本质
meant by an archetype and you could say
意味着一个原型， 你可以说
well you know we tend
那么你知道我们倾向于
think that what we see with our senses
想想我们的感官所见
is real and of course that's true but
是真实的，当然这是真的，但是
what we see with our senses is what's
我们用我们的感官看到的是什么
real that worked at the timeframe that
真正在那个时间段工作
we exist in right and so we see things
我们存在的权利，所以我们看到的东西
that we can touch and pick up we see
我们可以触摸并捡起我们看到的东西
tools essentially that are useful for
基本上是有用的工具
our moment-to-moment activities we don't
我们不这样做我们的时刻到时刻活动
see the structures of eternity
看到永恒的结构
especially not the abstract structures
尤其不是抽象结构
of eternity we have to imagine those
我们不得不想象那些永恒
with our imagination and that's partly
与我们的想象力，这是部分
what these stories are doing they're
这些故事在做什么
saying well there's there's forms of
说有这些形式
stability that transcend our capacity to
稳定性超越我们的能力，
observe which is hardly surprising we
观察这是不足为奇的，我们
know that if we're scientists right
知道如果我们是科学家是对的
because we're always abstracting out
因为我们一直在抽象
things that we can't immediately observe
我们无法立即观察的事物
but there are meta physical or moral
但有元物理或道德
realities or phenomenological realities
现实或现象学现实
that have the same nature that you can't
具有相同的性质，你不能
see them in your life by observing them
观察它们在你的生活中看到它们
with your senses but you can imagine
用你的感官， 但你可以想象
them with your imagination and though
他们与你的想象力，虽然
sometimes the things that you imagine
有时候是你想象的东西
with your imagination are more real than
与你的想象力相比，它更真实
the things that you see numbers are like
你看到的数字就是这样的
that for example and there's endless
例如，这是无止境的
examples of that and I would say well
这和我的例子会说得很好
this is also a good way of thinking
这也是一种很好的思考方式
about fiction because a good work of
关于小说，因为好的作品
fiction is more real than the stories
小说比故事更真实
from which it was derived otherwise it
否则它会从中得到它
has no staying power right it's
没有保留权利的权利
distilled reality even though in some
蒸馏的现实，即使在一些
sense it never happened it's like well
感觉它从来没有发生过，就像是一样
it depends on what you mean by happened
这取决于你发生的意思
you know it's a it's a pattern that
你知道这是一种模式
repeats in many many places with
在许多地方重复
variation you extract out the central
变化你从中央抽出
pattern it's it's the pattern purely
模式它纯粹是模式
never existed in any specific form but
从来没有以任何特定的形式存在
the fact that you pulled a pattern out
你拉出了一个模式的事实
from all those exemplars means that he's
从所有这些范例意味着他是
extracted something real and I think the
提取了一些真实的东西，我认为
reason that the the story of Adam and
原因是亚当和亚当的故事
Eve which we'll talk about in quite a
除夕，我们将在相当谈
bit of detail today has it has been
今天已经有一些细节
immune to being forgotten is because it
免于被遗忘是因为它
says things about the nature of the
说有关的性质的事情
human condition that are always true it
人类的状况总是如此
can give you another brief example you
可以给你另一个简要的例子
know like people have a lot of guilt you
知道人们对你有很多罪恶感
know there's a line of social psychology
知道有一种社会心理学
that claims that most people feel that
声称大多数人都认为这一点
they're better than other people
他们比其他人更好
like I just don't buy that that isn't
就像我不买那种不是
what I've seen in my life and maybe it's
我在生活中见过的，也许是
I'm bit biased because I'm a clinical
我有点偏见，因为我是临床医生
psychologist and I see
心理学家，我明白了
more people who are overtly suffering
越来越多的人谁是公然的痛苦
maybe then people do in general although
也许那时候人们一般都会这样做
I'm not so sure about that you know
我对 你所知道的 并不确定
because you don't have to scratch very
因为你不必非常划伤
far beneath the surface of most people's
远在大多数人的表面之下
lives before you find something truly
在你找到真正的东西之前活着
tragic and I don't mean the sort of
悲剧，我不是那种意思
tragedy that you whine about I mean you
悲剧，你对我的意思是抱怨 你
know your mother has Alzheimer's or your
知道你的母亲有阿尔茨海默氏症或你的
best friend committed suicide or you
最好的朋友自杀或你
have a close relative with cancer you
与癌症的近亲你
have a sick child or you know there's
有一个生病的孩子，或者你知道有
something wrong with you because almost
几乎是因为你的错
everyone has at least one really
每个人至少有一个真正的
terrible thing wrong with them and if
可怕的事情与他们错了，如果
you don't hey you will so you know so
你不会嘿，你会这样认识的
know that that so so that that tragic
知道这样那样的悲剧
sense of being is there with people all
所有人都有存在感
the time and and and it's also the case
时间和，而且也是这样
that not in my experience like I rarely
那并非像我很少遇到过的那样
meet someone who says hey you know I'm
遇到某人说嘿，你知道我是
doing everything I possibly can I'm a
尽我所能，我是一个
hell of a guy and I can't see how I
地狱的人，我看不出我是怎么了
could possibly improve you know you meet
可能会提高你知道你遇到
you meet someone like that you think
你遇到了你认为的人
their narcissistic write would end
他们的自恋写作会结束
you're right and but but most people
你是对的，但只有大多数人
don't feel that way they feel like they
不要觉得他们觉得他们是这样
could do a hell of a lot better than
可以做得比地狱好很多
they are and they're quite acutely aware
他们是，他们非常敏锐地意识到
of their faults and they don't feel that
他们的缺点，他们不觉得
they're what they should be and you see
他们是他们应该和你看到的
what happens in the story of Adam and
亚当与亚当的故事会发生什么？
Eve as well as that when people become
夏娃以及当人们成为时
self conscious at least that's how it
至少自我意识就是这样
looks to me they get thrown out of
在我看来 ，他们得到抛出的
paradise and then they're in history and
天堂，然后他们在历史和
history is a place where there's pain in
历史是一个痛苦的地方
childbirth and where you're dominated by
分娩和你主宰的地方
your mate and where you have to toil
你的伴侣和你必须努力的地方
like mad like no other animal because
像疯了一样没有其他动物，因为
you're aware of the future you have to
你知道你必须对未来 的
work and sacrifice the joys of the
工作和牺牲的乐趣
present for the future constantly and
不断的为未来而存在
you know you're going to die and you
你知道你会和你一起死去
have all that weight on you and to me
对你和我有所有的重量
again that's just how can anything be
再次，这就是如何可以
more true than that that's just as far
比那个更加真实
as I can tell that's just how it is
因为我可以说这只是它是如何
for unless you're naive beyond
因为除非你天真超越
comprehension there's something about
理解有一些关于
your life that that that is echoed in in
你的生活，这是相呼应的
that representation and why it is that I
那种表现和为什么是我
mean we're such strange creatures
意思是我们是这样奇怪的生物
because we don't seem to really fit into
因为我们似乎没有真正融入
being in some sense and that's also
在某种意义上，这也是
what's expressed in the notion of the
在什么样的概念所表达的
fall we the existentialist said well
我们这位存在主义者说得很好
people feel like they have a debt that
人们觉得他们有债务
they have to pay off to existence for
他们必须还清存在了
the for the crime of their for the crime
为了他们的犯罪行为
of the
的
being something like that and maybe it's
就像那样，也许是这样
because we are acutely aware that we
因为我们敏锐地意识到我们
have to offer something of value to the
必须提供有价值的东西
people around us so that they can
我们身边的人们可以这样做
tolerate us you know well we're going
容忍我们你知道我们正在走
about our business but it seems deeper
关于我们的业务，但似乎更深入
than that it's that human beings seem to
比那是人类似乎
exist in a post cataclysmic world and
存在于灾难后的世界中
that's exactly also what's represented
这也正是代表的
in Genesis it's very interesting because
在创世纪中它非常有趣，因为
you know there's in the out of an EVE
你知道有一个EVE
story there's two there's two
故事里有两个有两个
catastrophes essentially there's the
灾难基本上是存在的
catastrophe that occurs went out of an
灾难发生了
EVE wake up which we'll talk about in
EVE唤醒我们将在谈
detail and become self conscious and
细节并成为自我意识和
know that they're naked that and their
知道他们是裸体的，他们的
eyes are open right so that that's the
眼睛是开放的，这样就是了
terminology that's used and to have your
所使用的术语和你的
eyes open means to have an an increment
睁开眼睛意味着有一个增量
in consciousness essentially because
在意识本质上是因为
eyes are associated with consciousness
眼睛与意识有关
for human beings because we're intensely
对于人类而言，因为我们非常激烈
visual animals and so the metaphor of
视觉动物等的隐喻
having your eyes open means it's the
睁开你的眼睛意味着它是
same as the metaphor of coming to
与来到的隐喻相同
consciousness and as soon as Adam and
意识，并尽快亚当和
Eve come to consciousness they realize
伊娃意识到他们意识到
they're naked and you know the classic
他们赤身裸体，你知道经典之作
interpretation of that is that it has
那解释是，它具有
something to do with sexual sin and I
与性罪和我有关
don't I don't believe that I don't
我不相信我没有
believe that that's what it means
相信这就是它的意思
although they're elements about that
尽管他们是这方面的元素
that are relevant it's more that to
这是相关的更多的是
realize that you're naked it's like
意识到你是裸体的，就像
you're you know if you dream that you're
如果你梦见自己是你，你就会知道
naked and on a stage in front of people
裸体和在 人前的 舞台上
that's not a sexual dream man unless
那不是一个性梦想的人，除非
you're some kind of strange
你有点奇怪
exhibitionist right it's if you want to
如果你愿意的话，展示者就是对的
cover yourself up and get the hell off
掩盖自己，让自己失控
that stage as fast as possible and so to
那个阶段尽可能快，等等
be naked in front of a crowd is to have
在人群面前裸体是有的
everyone it's to have the judgement of
每个人都需要做出判断
the social world focused on your
社交世界专注于你的
self-evident inadequacies and that makes
不言而喻的不足之处，这使得
people self-conscious and that's that's
人们自觉，就是这样
a real human state it's associated with
它与相关的一个真正的人的状态
neuroticism in the big five trade model
五大贸易模式中的神经质
but people don't like that at all they
但是人们根本不喜欢那种感觉
don't like having their fragility and
不喜欢有脆弱和脆弱
vulnerability exposed to the group it's
暴露于该组的漏洞
one of the two major fears of people
人们的两大恐惧之一
because one is social humiliation and
因为一个是社会屈辱和
the other is something like mortality
另一种是像死亡
and death and like your typical
和死亡，就像你的典型
agoraphobic
广场恐惧症
for example gets to have both those
例如获得这两个
fears at the same time because she
因为她同时害怕
usually as she tends to believe she's
通常是因为她倾向于相信她
going to have a very spectacular and
将有一个非常壮观的
exhibitionistic heart attack in a
展览中的心脏病发作
public place and make a terrible fool of
公共场所，并成为一个可怕的傻瓜
herself while she's dying so and then
她自己虽然时不时地死去
that's a good example of the two
这是两个很好的例子
archetypal fears that characterize
典型的恐惧特征
characterized human beings so so to me
特点是人类对我如此
and I said that I tried to approach
我说我试图接近
these stories as if I didn't know what
这些故事好像我不知道是什么
they were about because that seemed
他们是关于因为这似乎
right to me because their mysteries
因为他们的奥秘对我来说
their everything about them is
他们关于他们的一切是
mysterious and why we have them is
神秘的，为什么我们有他们是
mysterious and what the hell you're all
神秘和你到底是什么
doing here is mysterious you know
在这里做你是知道的
listening to this lecture and so and
听这个讲座等等
reading Hume because you and Carl Jung
因为你和卡尔荣格读休谟
was very very helpful in this because he
在这方面非常有帮助，因为他
he faced these stories with the
他面对这些故事
beginner's mind and presumed there was
初学者的头脑和推测有
something to him that he didn't
对他来说他没有
understand given that they were at the
明白他们在那里
very bloody bottom of our civilization
我们的文明非常血腥的底部
you know which is historically perfectly
你知道历史上是完美的
clear and that they came out of the
清楚并且他们出来了
midst of time and he wasn't satisfied
中间时间，他并不满意
with the idea that a Freudian idea that
的想法，弗洛伊德想法，
God was just the father or the Marxist
上帝只是父亲或马克思主义者
idea that religion was the opiate of the
认为宗教是鸦片的想法
masses it's like if religion was the
大众就好像宗教是这样的
opiate of the masses then communism was
当时的共产主义是 大众的鸦片
the methamphetamine of the masses I can
我可以的群众的甲基苯丙胺
tell you that so
告诉你如此
so you know you've been betrayed by
所以你知道你被背叛了
someone and so you fall into that
有人，所以你陷入了这一点
underworld of doubt about everything and
对所有事情都怀疑的黑社会
it's a serious place to be in that
这是一个认真的地方
underworld a because not only do you not
黑社会，因为你不是
know where you came from or who you are
知道你来自哪里或你是谁
where you're going that's bad enough
你去哪里就够糟糕了
so that's the underworld itself but
所以这就是黑社会本身
there's a subdivision of the underworld
有 黑道 的细分
like the worst suburb which is I think
就像我认为的最差的郊区一样
what hell is essentially from the
这究竟是从哪里来的
metaphysical perspective because you
形而上学的视角， 因为你
know if someone really cuts you off at
知道是否有人真的让你失望
the knees especially if they do it in a
膝盖特别是如果他们在a
malevolent way and and if you're going
恶意的方式，如果你要去
to be betrayed and you really want to be
被出卖，你真的想成为
betrayed properly you want to be
出卖得当，你想成为
betrayed by someone who's really out to
被真正出门 的人出卖
hurt you you know they just weren't
伤害你， 你知道他们不是
being stupid they were like after you
愚蠢的他们就像你一样
for whatever reason and then that's also
无论出于何种原因，那也是如此
you plunged into that underworld space
你陷入了黑社会的空间
and that's also when you start to nurse
这也是你开始护士的时候
feelings of resentment and aggrievement
怨恨和怨恨的感觉
and murder and homicide and even worse
谋杀和杀人甚至更糟
you know because if people are betrayed
你知道，因为如果人们被背叛
enough they start they start to obsess
足够他们开始他们开始迷恋
about the utility of being itself and
关于 自己和自己 的效用
perhaps go to places that no one would
也许去的地方，没有人会
ever want to go if they were in the
如果他们在世界上一直想去
right mind and to and to develop a nurse
正确的思想， 并且培养一名护士
fantasies of the ultimate revenge and
对最终报复和幻想的幻想
that's a horrible place to be and that's
那是一个可怕的地方，那就是
hell as far as I can tell and that's why
地狱据 我可以告诉，这就是为什么
hell has always been a suburb of the
地狱一直是郊区的
underworld because if if you get plunged
黑社会，因为如果你暴跌
into a situation that you don't
变成你没有的情况
understand and things are not good for
理解和事情不好
you anymore it's one step from being
你已经离现实只有一步之遥了
completely confused it's only one step
完全混淆它只是一个步骤
from being completely confused to being
从完全混淆到存在
completely outraged and resentful and
完全愤怒和愤and
then it's only one step from there to
那么它只有一步从那里
really looking for revenge and that can
真的在寻找复仇，那可以
take you places that well that that
带你去那个地方
merely to imagine properly can be
只是想象得很恰当就可以
traumatic and I've seen that happen with
创伤，我已经看到这发生
people many times and I think that
人们很多次，我认为
anybody who uses their imagination on
任何使用他们的想象力的人
themselves can see how that happens
他们自己可以看到如何发生
because I don't imagine there's a single
因为我不认为有一个单一的
person in the room that hasn't nursed
没有入住的房间里的人
fairly intense fantasies of revenge at
相当激烈的复仇幻想
least at one point in their life and
至少在他们的生活中有一点
usually you know for what appear to be
通常你知道似乎是什么
good reasons it's no picnic to get
很好的理由，它不是得到的野餐
betrayed that's for sure that can shake
背叛这是肯定的，可以动摇
your faith in being but if it shakes it
你的信仰存在，但如果它震动它
so badly that you turn against being
如此糟糕，以至于你反对存在
itself that's certainly no solution
本身这当然没有解决办法
that's for sure all it does is make
这当然是所有它做的
everything that's bad even worse
一切糟糕甚至更糟
so okay now so and God said let there be
所以现在好了，上帝说让那里有
light and there was light and God saw
有光明，神看见了
that the light was good and God
光是好的，上帝
separated the light from the darkness
将光线从黑暗中分离出来
and so that's that's another that's
所以这是另外一个这
another fundamental separation right
另一个基本分离权
light and darkness those are those are
明与暗的那些是那些被
in some sense the two fundamental two of
在某种意义上说是两个基本的两个
the fundamental elements of our
的基本要素我们
conscious being because of course when
当然是因为当然
it's light we're awake and conscious
这是我们清醒和自觉的光
because we're diurnal animals and when
因为我们是昼夜动物，什么时候
it's night well then we're asleep and so
晚上好，然后我们睡着了等等
our existence is bounded by light and
我们的存在是由光界和
darkness we're up and alert when it's
当我们黑暗时， 我们就会醒来并警觉
light and that's partly because we're
光，这部分是因为我们
highly visual animals right unlike most
不同于大多数的高度视觉化的动物
animals because most animals you smell
动物，因为你闻到大多数动物
we we use vision we're very strange that
我们使用视觉，我们很奇怪
way and vision is associated with
方式和愿景是相关联的
enlightenment and illumination and with
启蒙与照明与
the breaking of the dawn with the coming
随着未来的破晓
of the new day and all of that so and so
新的一天，所有的那谁谁的
for light to be created is associated in
要创建的光线与之相关联
some sense with the emergence of
一些意义上的出现
conscious being and so that's another
有意识的存在，所以这是另一回事
echo of that notion and they're the the
呼应这一概念的，他们是在对
particular phrasing of the of the story
故事的特别措辞
also is important because it's again
也是重要的，因为它再次
that God fed right so that's the use of
上帝喂养的权利，所以这是使用
that word and that's the active element
这个词，这是活跃的因素
of the structure that gives rise to the
这产生了 结构
gives order to chaos it's something like
给秩序混乱它就像
that so it's it's like the spirit of the
这就像它的精神一样
structure manifests itself and produces
结构体现自己并产生
the fundamental divisions of experience
经验的基本划分
that's what's being presented here and
这就是这里呈现的内容
God separated the light from the
上帝把光从光中分离出来
darkness he called the light day and the
他把黑暗称为光明日
darkness he called night and again again
黑夜，他再次打电话给黑夜
the fact that things are named is also
事物命名的事实也是
very important so you see this later
非常重要， 所以你稍后会看到
with Adam because God gives Adam the job
与亚当，因为上帝给亚当的工作
of naming all the animals and it's sort
命名所有的动物，它是排序
of like the animals don't actually exist
像动物一样不存在
in some sense till they're named and
从某种意义上说，直到他们命名，
that's that's another indication of the
这是这的另一个迹象
authors of the Bible's attempt to come
圣经试图来的人
to terms with the fact that our
与我们的事实相关
cognitive faculties and our ability to
认知能力和我们的能力
speak have something to do with the way
说话与方式有关
that we task chaotic potential into
我们任务乱势成
actuality right because we can't we
现实的权利，因为我们不能
can't really get a grip on something
不能真正掌握某些东西
before we have a name for it which is
之前我们有一个名字 是
like for example you all have names and
例如像你们都有名字和
everything that you encounter has to
你遇到的一切都必须
have a name because before it has a name
有一个名字，因为它有一个名字
it's just kind of
这只是一种
part of the blurry background in
部分模糊背景
something like that and you could say it
类似的东西，你可以说
exists before it has a name but and
存在之前它有一个名字，但和
that's true but it's also true that it
这是真的，但它也确实是
doesn't exist before it has a name
在它有名字之前不存在
because as soon as you give something a
因为只要你给一件事
name its nature changes and you've
命名其性质的变化，你已经
transformed it into something that's not
把它改造成的东西，这不是
so much mere potential anymore but it's
不仅仅是潜力，而是它
at least on its way to being actuality
至少在实际上是如此
it's on its way to being a tool and so
它的道路上是一个工具等等
the act of naming is repeated
重复命名行为
continually in the first chapters of the
不断在第一章的章节
Bible and the reason for that is this
圣经和原因是这样的
continued emphasis on the importance of
继续强调重要性
consciousness and conscious articulation
意识和有意识的表达
and speech you know when speech is
并在讲话时发言
really something that does separate us
真的让我们分开的东西
in an important way from animals you
在一个重要的方式来自动物你
know like we haven't got very far
知道我们还没有很远
teaching animals how to speak the best
教动物如何说最好的
we've managed so far as some parrots
我们已经管理了一些鹦鹉
right there's gray African parrot there
那里有灰色的非洲鹦鹉
is one of them that got up to about a
是其中的一个起起落落
four-year-old level and that's
四岁的水平，这是
mind-boggling because like how big is
令人难以置信， 因为它有多大
the brain of a parrot it's like that big
鹦鹉的大脑就像那样大
and that bloody thing could talk and so
那血腥的事情可以说话等等
that shows you how much we know about
那会告诉你我们知道多少
brains but I know they're small and all
大脑， 但我知道他们小而全
that but and we tried teaching
但是，我们尝试教学
chimpanzees to talk and they could kind
黑猩猩说话，他们可以善待
of get somewhere with sign language
用手语进入某个地方
especially if you started when they were
特别是如果你开始的时候
young but they don't have the capacity
年轻但他们没有能力
for language like we do and they were
对于像我们这样和他们的语言来说
never able to really pass it on to the
从来没有能够真正把它传递到
to the next generation which is
到下一代这是
obviously a critical element of really
显然是真正的关键因素
having that ability so human beings
有这样的能力，人类
we've used our linguistic capacity to
我们已经使用我们的语言能力
parse up the world in a new way and to
以新的方式分析世界， 并以
conceptualize it in a new way and you
以一种新的方式和你来概念化它
know you can say that we're just like
知道你可以说我们就是这样
ants on this little trivial planet out
蚂蚁在这个微不足道的星球上
on the edge of one of a hundred million
上亿的一个边缘
galaxies and that what's happening here
星系和那里发生了什么
has no cosmic significance but that's an
没有宇宙意义，但这是一个
arbitrary that's an arbitrary
任意这是一个任意的
proposition you know I mean we're very
你知道的命题我的意思是我们非常
complicated things and whatever's going
复杂的事情和其他事情
on on this planet has to do with
在这个星球上必须要做的
conscious reality and the
有意识的现实与现实
transformations of consciousness for all
为所有人转变意识
we know might be the most important
我们知道可能是最重要的
things that happen everywhere there's no
事情到处都是，没有
reason to consider consciousness a
理性考虑意识a
trivial phenomena I mean it's taken
我的意思是它采取了微不足道的现象
three and a half billion years for you
三十五亿年的时间给你
to develop the brain that you've
开发你的大脑
developed and you and human beings are
发展和你和人类是
amazing creatures I mean
我的意思是惊人的生物
just a casual walk through YouTube and
只是漫步在YouTube和YouTube上
all those crazy kids that climb cranes
所有那些爬起重机的疯狂的孩子
and do that what's that that ya parkour
做那个，那是你的跑酷
man that stuff's unbelievable you know I
那个东西不可思议，你知道我
mean human beings are crazy crazy
意味着人类疯狂疯狂
animals there's almost nothing we can't
动物几乎没有什么我们不能
do and I'm very loath to assume that the
做，我非常不愿意假设
transformations of consciousness that
意识的转变是
are described in the early in the early
在早期在早期 被描述
stories in in the biblical accounts are
故事在圣经帐户是
somehow cosmically trivial it doesn't
不知何故，这在宇宙上是微不足道的
strike me that way and it's certainly
以这种方式打我，当然
not self-evident and even if they are
不是不言而喻，即使它们是
cosmically trivial whatever that means
无论如何，这在宇宙上是微不足道的
the rocks don't care what you think well
岩石不关心你的想法
who cares what the rocks think first
谁在乎岩石首先想到的是什么
they don't think so I don't see why
他们不这么认为，我不明白为什么
that's exactly relevant but even if even
这是完全相关的，但即使是甚至
if it's all the same to the cosmos which
如果它和宇宙完全一样的话
is something that I doubt it's certainly
是我怀疑它是肯定的
not just all the same to you you know
不只是你所知道的你都一样
because your consciousness has a quality
因为你的意识有一个品质
and it matters the Heidegger for example
例如海德格尔就很重要
who's a philosopher who who's writing
谁是谁写的哲学家
sort of influenced me post-talk because
有点影响了我的后期谈话，因为
i recreated some of the things that he
我重新创造了他的一些东西
had talked about in the 30s before I
在我之前的30年代曾经谈过
knew much about him but one of the
对他非常了解， 但其中一位
things that Heidegger said was that the
海德格尔说过的事情是
fundamental element of human being of
人类的基本元素
human phenomenology was care he said
他说，人类现象学很关心
that that's the basic essence of your
这就是你的基本精髓
being is that you care about things you
幸福是你关心的事情你
know and that's necessary that either
知道这就是必要的，要么
negatively or positively right you to
消极或积极的权利你
not care about something or to hate it
不在乎某件事或讨厌它
is still to be involved in care and so
仍然需要参与护理等
even if the cosmos itself is is neutral
即使宇宙本身是中性的
with regards to our existence we're not
关于我们的存在，我们不是
and we're the only things that we know
我们是唯一知道的事情
of that are conscious and so while we
那是有意识的，所以当我们
might as well go with that and there's
还不如与去和有
no reason see I can't help but think
没理由见我不禁想
that the constant attempts by people to
人们不断的尝试
trivialize the nature of their own
贬低自己的本质
consciousness has a dark side I'm a
意识有一个黑暗的一面，我是一个
psychoanalyst and so I always think that
心理医生，所以我一直认为，
way it's like well first of all if
这种方式首先是如此
you're if you as a being don't matter
你是如果你作为一个存在并不重要的人
then you don't have to do anything it's
那么你不必做任何事情
a great justification for total lack of
总缺乏一个伟大的理由
responsibility and that that really
责任和那真的
twigs something for me because you know
为我树枝一些东西，因为你知道
people who are bent let's say or
谁是弯曲的人，让我们说什么或
vengeful or angry are always looking for
报复或愤怒总是在寻找
a reason why they don't have to be
他们不必这样做的原因
responsible for anything
负责任何事情
it's a lot easier and so the notion that
这很容易，所以这个概念
consciousness is trivial immediately
意识很小
allows you to wander down that path and
可以让你漫步在那条路上
so I'm skeptical of those claims and I
所以我对这些说法和我持怀疑态度
also think that there's a deep hatred of
也认为这是一种深刻的仇恨
humanity that underlies those claims as
作为这些主张的基础的人性
well and I read my youtube comments
好吧，我读了我的YouTube的评论
sometimes you know and I've always been
有时你知道，我一直都是
I've always been
我一直都是
annoyed that you know because I've heard
惹恼你知道，因为我听说过
like sort of radical clueless
像某种激进无知的人
environmentalists say things like planet
环保主义者说像地球一样
would be better off without people on it
没有人会更好
which is something that like you just
这是喜欢你只是一些
cannot say that that if you say that and
不能说， 如果你这样说和
listen to yourself
听你自己
you should like go to a monastery for
你应该去修道院
like three years and never say a word
像三年，从不说一句话
and have a shower every 10 minutes until
并每10分钟有一次淋浴直到
you've learned your lesson properly you
你已经正确地吸取了你的教训
know you can't adhere a more genocide
知道你不能坚持更多的种族灭绝
'el phrase than that you know and of
'这个短语比你所知道的还要多
course you always do it in a display of
当然，你总是在显示屏上进行
your care for the world it's like well
你对这个世界的关心就好
if we just didn't have any people it's
如果我们没有任何人的话
like well we'll just line them all up
好吧，我们将把他们全部排成一行
and shoot them with machine guns no it's
用机关枪射击他们 不
really sickening it's appalling and
真是令人作呕这是令人震惊和
there's a hatred for humanity that's at
对于人类来说，这是一种仇恨
the bottom of it and I mean you can kind
它的底部，我的意思是你可以善良
of understand why because we're messy
理解为什么因为我们很混乱
and you know we don't clean up after
你知道我们之后不清理
ourselves and you know we're like raping
我们自己， 你知道我们就像强奸
the rain forests and that sort of thing
雨林和那种东西
but I do have some sympathy for people
但我有一些同情的人
because you know we're we're hell on
因为你知道我们是我们的
mother nature but she certainly returns
母亲的性质，但她肯定会回来
the favor so and that's a good thing to
这样的好处，这是一件好事
remember you know a lot of what we're
记住你知道我们很多
doing is just bloody well trying to
这样做只是血腥的尝试
exist with a relative minimum of pain
存在相对最小的疼痛
and we're doing our best to get you know
我们正在尽我们所能，让你知道
to get as good at doing that as fast as
让尽可能擅长 做的是尽可能快地
we can and that's not an easy thing
我们可以，那不是一件容易的事情
there are lots of us and like life is
有很多我们和生活一样
bloody complicated and the other thing
血腥的复杂和其他的事情
that happens too is again if you scratch
如果你从头开始 ，那也会发生
just beneath the surface of people and
就在人和人的表面之下
this is something that's always you know
这是你永远都知道的事情
to me is being a kind of miracle is if
对我来说是一种奇迹，如果
you talk to someone they're out doing
你跟他们在外面的人谈话
their job and maybe they're doing a good
他们的工作，也许他们做得很好
job at it like some emergency room nurse
就像一些急诊室的护士一样工作
you know it's God there's a job for you
你知道这是上帝，你有一份工作
or maybe they work in palliative care
或者也许他们在姑息治疗中工作
you know and you talk to them and you
你知道，你和他们以及你 说话
find out they've got like four as I said
发现他们已经像我说的那样有四个了
before serious problems in their family
他们的家庭出现严重问题之前
and maybe they're diabetic to boot and
也许他们是糖尿病人开机和
yet they haul themselves out of bed in
然而他们把自己从床上 拖出来
the morning and go take care of dying
早上去照顾死亡
people it's like good god people deserve
人就像上帝的人应得的那样
a bit of respect for struggling forward
对于奋斗的前锋有点尊重
and not always trying to make the planet
并不总是试图制造这个星球
a worse play
一场糟糕的比赛
when they're beset on all sides
当他们困扰在四面八方时
constantly by you know unending series
不断由你知道无休止的系列
of tragedy you think we could have a
悲剧你认为我们可以有一个
little bit of sympathy for ourselves as
同情自己的点点
a consequence of that it's like we're
那后果就好像我们是
not all like rapacious greedy monsters
并不都像贪婪贪婪的怪物
who are bent on just devouring
谁一心只想吞食
everything in our path you know it's a
我们的道路上的一切，你知道它是一个
little bit more complicated than that
比这更复杂一点
so all right anyway so so well so let's
所以无论如何这么好，所以让我们
go to the next part of this here mmm-hmm
去这个位置MMM-HMM 的下一部分
all right so God said let there be an
好吧，所以上帝说让那里有一个
expanse in the midst of the waters and
在水域和水域之间扩张
let it separate the waters from the
让它的水从分离
waters and God made the expanse and
水和神造就了广阔的天地
separated the waters that were under the
分离，正在接受该水域
expanse from the waters that were above
从上面的水域开阔
the expanse and it was so and God called
广阔的，这是神的呼召
the expanse heaven and there was evening
傍晚时分，天堂和广阔的天空
and there was morning the second day
第二天早上就有了
well to understand that because what how
很好理解，因为如何
did that doesn't make any sense at all
这样做 没有任何意义了
really so I think I told you a little
真的让我觉得，我告诉你一个小
bit about this before so the the the
在这之前，有关于此的一点点
world that's being created in this
这是一个在这个被创造的世界
particular account is a phenomenological
特定的帐户是一种现象学
world there's a disc of land because if
世界上有一块土地，因为如果
you go out in a field and look around
你在外地出去 看看
you're on a disk of labs that's pretty
你在一个非常漂亮 的实验室磁盘上
obvious and then there's a dome on top
很明显，然后顶部有一个圆顶
of it it's more or less held up by the
它或多或少地受到了
mountains and rain comes down so there's
山脉和雨水降临， 所以有
water above the dome because where else
在圆顶之上的水，因为在那里
would the rain come from and underneath
雨会来自内外
the ground there's fresh water you can
地面有淡水可以
drill down and find out and then around
深入挖掘并找出并围绕
out there's salt water and so that's the
那里有盐水，所以这是
world and it's kind of an empirical
世界，这是一种经验
world because if you're a child and you
世界因为如果你是一个孩子而你
just go out in the field and you look at
只是在外地出去，你看看
the world that's sort of what it would
这个世界就是这样
be like and so that's the world that's
像等就是这样的世界
being created and so one of the things
被创造出来的东西之一
that is worth thinking about this is
值得关注的是这个
something Carl Jung was very interested
Carl Jung对此非常感兴趣
in is that these old descriptions are
在于这些旧的描述是
half geographical and half empirical so
半地理半经验如此
sort of based on observation and half
基于观察和一半的排序
psychological
心理
so one of the things young was
所以年轻的一件事 是
interested in for example was astrology
例如感兴趣的是占星术
but mostly for a psychological reason
但主要是出于心理原因
because you know they're obviously there
因为你知道他们显然在那里
are stars up on the dome and then when
是圆顶上的星星，然后是星星
you look at the stars you can imagine
你看看你能想象的星星
the shapes of the stars and that helps
星星的形状和帮助
you orient yourself because as soon as
你只要确定自己的方位，因为
you can see shapes and the stars then
你可以看到形状和星星
you can recognize the constellations and
你可以识别星座和
you can orient yourself at night but
你可以在晚上定位自己， 但是
then the constellations become God's say
那么星座就成了神的话语
and the gods turn into a drama and so
众神变成戏剧等等
and the drama comes from
和戏剧来自
then it's the projection of imagination
那就是想象力的投射
and so when Young was analyzing
Young在分析时也是如此
astrology he was in that analyzing
占星术，他在分析
psychology because he saw the
因为他看到了心理学
astrological narrative as the projection
占星术叙述如投影
of the human imagination onto the cosmos
人类对宇宙的想象力
and so when he was analyzing astrology
所以当他分析占星术时
who was analyzing psychology and that
谁在分析心理学和那个
the same thing is the case with these
这些情况也是如此
stories is that the world they they
故事是他们的世界
describe is only it's not the natural
描述只是它不是自然的
world like a scientist would describe it
像科学家这样的世界会描述它
because these people weren't scientists
因为这些人不是科学家
they didn't have the technology in the
他们没有在技术
tool it was it was the way they were for
工具是这是他们的方式
them it was the world for us it's the
他们对我们来说就是这个世界
way they saw the world and so we're
他们看到这个世界的方式，所以我们
looking at the way they saw the world
看着他们看到这个世界的方式
and a lot of that psychology and we
还有很多这种心理和我们
share that psychology to a large degree
在很大程度上分享那个心理学
with those people so in this is
与这些人在这是如此
psychology but it's interesting to know
心理学， 但知道这很有趣
what the geographical substrate is so
什么是地理基础是如此
that you can kind understand the stories
你可以理解这些故事
and I like this picture because that's
我喜欢这张照片，因为那样
it's great from a psychological
从心理上来说这很好
perspective it's a very famous picture
透视这是一个非常有名的图片
you know so basically what you have here
你基本知道你在这里有什么
is the world as we know it and there's
就像我们所知道的那样，那里是世界
the dome with the Sun and the moon on it
有太阳和月亮的圆顶
and the stars and then if you look
和星星，然后如果你看
outside what you know well then you're
在你知道的外面，然后你是
out into this cosmic space right and
进入这个宇宙空间的权利和权利
that's those are like the wheels of the
这就是那些像的车轮
planets and the music of the spheres and
行星和球体的音乐
that's the ever-present Explorer who's
那是永远存在的资源管理器
gone beyond the domain that he can
超越了他所能做的领域
understand and is peering out into the
理解和被窥视出到
unknown as such and it's a psychological
这是未知的，这是一种心理
picture it's like because you do know
图片就像是因为你知道
some things and then outside of that
有些东西，然后外面的那
there are things you don't know and when
有些东西你不知道什么时候发生
you're feeling brave you put a foot or
你感到很勇敢，你放了脚或
two out where you don't understand like
两个你不明白的地方
because there's frontier everywhere
因为到处都有边界
right and if you're if you're feeling
对，如果你是如果你感觉
heroic and you want to do something for
英雄，你想为此做点什么
the world and you want to expand what
世界，你想扩大什么
you understand you poke your head
你明白你戳了你的头
through what you know and you take a
通过你所知道的和你所承担的
look at the that's the at whatever
看看那是什么
structure is out there and you know he's
结构在那里，你知道他是
pretty smart because most of them is
非常聪明，因为他们大部分都是
still where it's safe and I would say
仍然在哪里是安全的，我会说
that's a good that's a good thing
这是一件好事，这是一件好事
because if you jump right out there well
因为如果你跳得很好
then maybe you fall off the edge of the
那么也许你脱落的边缘
earth and I wouldn't precisely recommend
地球，我不会精确推荐
that especially if you do it
特别是如果你这样做
accidentally and to me this is a
不小心对我来说这是一个
recreation of the of the Taoist yin-yang
娱乐道教阴阳
symbol you know with the with the white
你知道与白色的符号
Paisley here and that's what
佩斯利在这里，那就是这个
no in the dark paisley serpents really
没有在黑暗的佩斯利蛇真的
there and the right place to be is right
那里和正确的地方是正确的
on the line between them because you're
在他们之间的线上，因为你是
sort of got one foot where you
有点你的脚在哪里
understand that gives you security and
明白，给你的安全和
then you know but it's kind of dull
那么你知道，但它有点沉闷
because hey you know everything that's
因为你知道这一切
going on there and that is what people
那儿的情况，这是什么人
are like they don't want just security
就像他们不想要安全一样
Dostoyevsky said that in notes from the
陀思妥耶夫斯基说，在从笔记
underground a great great book and you
地下一本伟大的书和你
know he said I love this it was his
知道他说我喜欢这是他的
early critic criticism of the notion of
早期评论家批评的概念
a political utopia he said look if you
一个政治乌托邦， 他说如果你看
gave people everything they wanted they
给了人们他们想要的一切
had nothing to eat but take and nothing
没有什么可吃的，但没吃东西
to do but sit in warm pools and busy
要做的只是坐在温暖的泳池里而忙碌
themselves with the continuation of the
自己与延续
species that was his his lives that the
这是他的生命中的物种
first thing they would do well maybe
他们可能会最终做好第一件事
after the first week was like gold kind
第一周之后就像黄金一样
of half insane and smash everything up
一半疯了，粉碎了一切
just so that something that they didn't
只是为了那些他们没有的东西
expect would happen so that they'd have
期望会发生，以便他们有
something interesting to do and it's so
有趣的事情是这样的
right because you know that the utopian
对，因为你知道这个乌托邦
notion that if you just had all the
如果你只是拥有了所有的东西 ，那么这个概念就可以了
material stuff you wanted that you'd
你想要的材料
you'd be well what would you be what
你会很好，你会是什么
what would you do would you just sit in
你会怎么做，你会坐在里面
the couch and watch TV I mean you did
沙发和看电视我的意思是你做的
you'd be I don't know why you'd be
你会是我不知道你为什么会
cutting yourself just for entertainment
削减自己只是为了娱乐
in no time slot you know and that's the
在任何时候你都知道，那就是
sort of thing that people do and so
人们所做的一些事情等等
we're not adapted for security in Utopia
我们不适应乌托邦的安全
were adapted for a certain amount of
被改编为一定量的
security because you know we are
因为你知道我们是安全的
vulnerable but mostly we want to have
脆弱但主要是我们想 有
one foot out where we don't know what
一英尺我们不知道什么
the hell is going on because that's
地狱正在继续，因为这样
where your alert and alive and tense and
这里提醒和活着，紧张，
with it and and you know I think I
与它和你知道我认为我
believe this and I believe it actually
相信这一点， 我确实相信它
has something to do with the hemispheric
与半球有关
structure of your of your of the
你的结构你
physiology of your brain is it because
你的大脑的生理机能是因为
the right hemisphere looks roughly
右半球看起来粗糙
adapted to what you don't know and the
适应你不知道的和
left hemisphere and this is a very this
左半球，这是一个极本
is an oversimplification but a useful
是过分简单化，但是有用的
one is adapted to the world that you do
一个适应你所做的世界
know and the right place for you to be
知道和适合你的地方
is halfway between them because then you
他们之间的一半是因为你
can tell that that's what's so cool and
可以说这就是那么酷，而且
this tells you that this is actually
这告诉你，这实际上是
reality that's manifesting itself to you
现实是向你显现的
you know that sense of active engagement
你知道积极参与的感觉
you have in the world when things are
当事情发生时你在世界上
working well for you you know where
为你工作，你知道在哪里
you're where you should be at the right
你是你应该在哪里的权利
time
时间
you're alert and on top of things and
你能警觉和对事物的顶部 和
engaged and you don't have much of a
从事和你没有太多的
sense of time and the sense of the
时间感和意识
tragedy of life sort of recedes and
生活的悲剧消退了
that's when your that's when you've got
那就是当你拥有的时候
one foot when it's where it's secure in
当它的一只脚在那里它是安全的
one foot out in the unknown and your
一脚在未知和你的脚下
brain signals to you that you're in the
大脑向你发出信号，表示你处于睡眠状态
right place by making what you're doing
通过做你正在做的事情来正确的地方
meaningful and that sense of meaning is
有意义的，这种意义是
actually a neuro physiological signal
实际上是一种神经生理信号
that you've got the forces of the cosmos
你已经得到了宇宙的力量
properly balanced in your being at that
在，在你被正确平衡
moment and that's why it feels so good
时刻，这就是为什么它感觉很好
and then well what else could it
然后好还能是什么
possibly be I mean you know our brain is
可能是我的意思是你知道我们的大脑是
capable of looking beyond our vision
能够超越我们的视野
that's what it's for and that sense of
这就是它的意义和感觉
engagement there's no reason to assume
没有理由承担
that that's anything but a real signal
那这是什么，但一个真正的信号
and you can reduce it you could say well
你可以减少它，你可以说得很好
the problem with being where you know
成为你知道的地方的问题
only is that you don't know everything
只是你不知道一切
and that's going to be a problem in the
而这将是在一个问题
future and the problem with being where
未来和在哪里的问题
you know nothing is that's just too much
你知道什么都不是太多
man like you know you go into panic mode
像你这样的人知道你进入恐慌模式
and because anything can happen there
因为任何事情都可能发生在那里
and you can't handle it so you've got to
你不能处理它，所以你必须
mediate between those two things you
介于这两件事之间
want to be secure enough so that your
想要足够安全，以便你的
physiology isn't revving out of control
生理学不会失去控制
and you want to be out there in the
你想要在那里
unknown enough so that you keep updating
未知足以使你不断更新
yourself constantly constantly
自己不断地不断
constantly and that's that's the place
不断地，这就是这个地方
where information flow is maximized and
信息流量最大化的地方
you know that because that's where you
你知道那是因为你在哪里
are when you're having a really
当你真的有一个
interesting conversation with someone or
与某人或者有趣的对话
you're gripped by a book or you're
你被一本书紧紧抓住了，或者你就是
really into a movie or maybe something
真的变成电影或者其他东西
that you do as a you know apart from
你做你知道的除外
your work or maybe even in your work
你的工作， 甚至是你的工作
you're into it and that's because you
你进入它，那是因为你
are in the right place at the right time
在正确的时间处于正确的位置
and your whole nervous system is
你的整个神经系统是
signaling that to you and I would say
发信号给你，我会说
that's the sort of place that you should
那是你应该做 的那种地方
be all the time of course you can't be
当然，你无法做到
because no one's perfect but it's that's
因为没有人是完美的，但就是这样
that's the recreation of paradise on
那是在天堂的休闲娱乐
earth it's something like it because you
地球就是这样，因为你
are in the right place at the right time
在 正确的时间处于正确的位置
when that is happening subject to
当时发生这种情况
certain what would you say restrictions
确定你会说什么限制
that we can talk about later well that's
我们可以谈论以后嗯，这是
what this guy is doing and and that's I
这家伙在做什么，那就是我
would say akin to the action that God is
会说类似于上帝的行为
taking when he's transforming the chaos
当他正在改变混乱时
of potential into habitable being and
潜在的可居住的和潜在的
it's the sort of thing that human beings
这是人类的事情
supposed to act out and God said let the
应该表现出来，上帝说让
waters under heaven be gathered together
天堂下的水被聚集在一起
into one place and let the dry land
进入一个地方，让干地
appear and it was so God called the dry
出现，它就是如此神称干
land earth and the waters that were
土地和那些曾经的水域
gathered together he called seas and God
聚集在一起，他称海和上帝
saw that it was good well that's an
看着是好的嗯，这是一个
interesting thing too because you know
因为你知道有趣的事情
there's this display written by a German
有一个德国人写的这个显示
named Gupta I can never say that
我叫Gupta， 我永远不能这么说
properly it's johann van goe t-80 and I
正确的是johann van goe t-80和我
can't say it but he wrote this play
不能说，但他写了这个戏
called Faust and he wrote one part of it
所谓的浮士德，他写了一部分
when he was quite young and then Klaus -
当他还很年轻，然后克劳斯 -
when he was quite old and he has a
当他很老，他有一个
character in there Mestas tov ELISA
在那里的性格Mestastov ELISA
message da fleece is the devil and he
消息da fleece是魔鬼和他
actually has the devil explaining
其实有魔鬼解释
himself twice basically using the same
他自己两次基本上使用相同的
words which which I really like it was
我真的很喜欢它的话是
very profound and basically Goethe's
非常深刻，基本上是歌德的
Memphis dolly says you know he's the
孟菲斯多莉说，你知道他是
adversary of the word that's a good way
这是一个好方法，这个词的对手
of putting it because that's how it
的把它，因为这是怎么了
works out mythologically he's the figure
神话般的他是这个数字
behind the snake in the Garden of Eden
在伊甸园的蛇后面
which is something we'll talk about more
这是我们将要谈论的更多内容
but he has a he has a sophisticated
但他有一个他有一个成熟的
philosophy he's not just some random
哲学他不只是一些随机的
troublemaker he's got a he's got a deep
麻烦制造者，他有一个深刻的
philosophy and his philosophy is quite
哲学和他的哲学是相当的
straightforward and it's compelling it's
简单明了，而且很吸引人
compelling and people are gripped by it
引人注目，人们都被它紧紧抓住了
quite often far more often than they
往往比他们更频繁
think his philosophy is well look around
认为他的哲学很好看
at the world like Ivan karamakov in The
在世界像伊万卡拉马科夫在The
Brothers Karamazov when he's trying to
兄弟卡拉马佐夫当他试图
disabuse his younger brother of being a
消除他的弟弟是一个
Christian monk Memphis awfully says well
孟菲斯基督徒僧侣很好地说
look at the world I mean all we look
看看我的意思是我们所看到的世界
around the world it's nothing but a
在世界各地它只是一个
bloodbath
血洗
it's just suffering everywhere
它只是处处受苦
everything eats everything and people
一切都吃掉了一切和人
die terribly and and they're cruel to
死得很厉害，而且他们很残忍
one another and the whole mass is
彼此和整个质量是
nothing but a constant hall of terrible
只不过是一个可怕的大厅
carnage and ruin and and and and and and
大屠杀和毁灭和和和和和
wreck he says it should be better if it
破坏他说它应该会更好，如果它
was never existed at all and that's a
从来没有存在过，这是一个
very interesting that's a very very
非常有趣，这是非常非常有趣的
interesting idea and I do believe and
有趣的想法，我相信和
I've seen this in people many times but
我曾多次在人们身上看到过这个，但是
in the depths of despair especially when
在绝望的深渊尤其是当
you've been betrayed for example and you
例如，你被背叛了
wander into the wrong subdivision of the
徘徊到错误的细分
underworld that
黑社会那
something that comes to mind if you know
如果你知道的话就会想到这些
you have a very sick child for example
你有一个 例子 非常生病的孩子
or maybe your whole family is suffering
或者你的全家都在受苦
as whole families do sometimes an idea
因为整个家庭有时会有一个想法
is going to come to you it's like good
会来找你，这很好
God who put this mess together and is it
将这个混乱放在一起的上帝
really worth it is it really worth the
真的值得吗是不是真的值得
suffering suicidal people you know they
患有自杀的人，你知道他们
say no they say no enough of this you
说不，他们说没有足够的这个你
know and you have to be pushed a long
知道，你必须被推迟很长时间
way generally speaking before you'll
一般来说，在你之前
actually commit suicide you have to be
实际上你必须自杀
in very very desperate straits but your
在非常非常绝望的海峡中，但你的
answer under those conditions is that
那些条件下的答案就是这样
being is such that it would be better if
如果是这样，它会更好
it had never been and that's a very I
它从来没有，这是一个非常我
think I think it's a very it's a
认为我认为这是非常重要的
terrible philosophy I believe because I
我相信我是可怕的哲学
think what happens if you act it out is
想一想，如果你这样做会发生什么
that you make the very things that led
你做出了那些领导的东西
you to despair far worse and I can't see
你绝望得更糟，我看不到
that if it's reasonable to draw a
如果绘制一张图片是合理的
logical conclusion that suffering should
逻辑结论是痛苦应该
justifies your desire to make being end
证明你渴望结束
that the answer to that can't be to
是这个问题的答案不能是
produce more suffering
产生更多的痛苦
it just doesn't make sense and my
它只是没有任何意义，我的
observation has been that people who act
观察一直是那些行事的人
out the Memphis to--they liyan
孟菲斯 - 他们是李彦
philosophy inevitably make suffering far
哲学不可避免地让苦难变得遥远
worse and so and then that raises the
更糟糕的是，那么这会提高
other specter of well do they want being
他们想要的其他幽灵也是
just diseased or they just out for
只是患病或他们只是为了
bloody revenge at every at any cost and
无论任何代价和每一个血腥的报复
my conclusion has always been that is
我的结论一直是那样的
that the mask is well being shouldn't
该面具是不应该的
exist because it's too terrible but the
存在，因为它太可怕了，但是
true motivation is I'm going to make
真正的动机是我会做
everyone suffer as much as I possibly
每个人都遭受像我可能
can before I say goodbye to this place
可以在我告别这个地方之前
if you read the writings of people like
如果你读过像人这样的着作
the kids who showed up the Columbine
出现哥伦比亚的孩子们
High School they'll tell you exactly
高中他们会完全告诉你
that that's precisely and exactly what
这正是和正是如此
they conclude it and then act it out
他们得出结论然后实施
so anyways but in this God says that it
所以无论如何，但在这上帝说，它
was good and I thought about that a lot
很好， 我想到 了很多
is like because the question is
就像是因为问题是
something like well is it something
这是一件好事
better than nothing because that's a
比没有好，因为这是一个
really good question you know and I
真的很好的问题你和我知道
thought about two things in relationship
想到关系中的两件事情
to that and one is one is well maybe it
对此，一个人可能也是如此
depends on how it is that you are right
取决于它 是 你是正确的
because it could be that there are ways
因为这可能是有办法的
of being in the world to justify the
在世界上证明这一点
world and their ways of being in the
世界及其在生活中的方式
world that makes the world unbearable
让这个世界变得无法忍受的世界
and I believe that the narrative that
我相信那个叙述
runs through the biblical stories is
贯穿圣经的故事是
precisely a dialogue between those two
恰恰是这两者之间的对话
types of BA and the optimistic part of
BA的类型和乐观的部分
the story is that being requires
故事就是要求
limitation and suffering there's no
没有限制和痛苦
escape from that but there are modes of
逃避，但有模式
being that allow that to be perhaps even
因为这可以让它变得平均
more than tolerable perhaps there are
也许有更多可以容忍的地方
modes of being that allow that to be
存在的模式是允许的
good and it's a straight and narrow road
好，这是一条狭窄而平坦的道路
it's a very difficult road to tread so
这是一条非常艰难的道路
so I think well that that's possible you
所以我认为这是可能的
know I'm not an optimist by nature and
知道自然和我并不乐观
but that's that's one of the things that
但这就是其中的一件事情
I've conceptualized and read about that
我已经概念化并阅读了相关内容
I actually find plausible because it's
其实我觉得合理的，因为它是
certainly the case everyone knows this
肯定是这样的每个人都知道这
that there are ways that you can act and
有些方法可以采取行动
make things worse
让事情变得更糟
everyone knows that and so if that's the
大家都知道， 所以如果是这样的
case there has to be the opposite right
情况必须有相反的权利
there has to be ways that you could act
必须有可以采取行动的方式
that make things better and obviously
让事情变得更好，明显
you can act in ways that make things
您可以以多种方式让事物 作用
really way worse and so the question is
真的更糟，所以问题是
well are there ways that you can act and
那么有没有办法可以采取行动？
make things really much better and I
让事情变得更好，我
think that's the question is can we have
认为这是我们可以拥有的问题
our cake and eat it too
我们的蛋糕，也吃了
can we have the being that requires
我们能否拥有需要的存在？
limitation and suffering and also
限制和痛苦， 也
simultaneously transcend that by our
同时超越了我们的
mode of being and I believe that the
存在的模式，我相信
biblical stories and then perhaps not
圣经的故事，然后也许不是
only the biblical stories but the
只有圣经故事而已
biblical stories are the human imagine
圣经故事是人类想象的
one of the human imaginations best
人类最好的想象之一
attempt to address and answer that
试图解决并回答这个问题
question that's what the entire story is
问题在于整个故事是什么
about so the first of it is the
关于如此第一个是
catastrophe of the collapse of
灾难的崩溃
self-consciousness and the entrance of
自我意识和入口
humanity into history and the rest of it
人类进入历史和其他部分
is okay now we're in history now we know
没关系 ，现在我们正处在历史上，现在我们知道
that we're going to die we know about
我们将要死亡，我们知道
our mortality we're conscious of our own
我们的死亡率意识到我们自己
being is there a mode of acting in the
是否存在一种行事模式？
world that allows that to be justifiable
世界允许这是合理的
or maybe even more that allows that to
或者甚至可以让更多
be triumphant and then I would also say
胜利，然后我也会说
maybe it's worth finding out you know
也许值得你知道
that that's the other thing that's so
那这是说的那么 其他的事情
interesting because you've got this
有趣，因为你有这个
short time on earth and there's lots of
地球上很短的时间，有很多
things that are very very difficult to
事情是非常非常困难的
contend with and and you have the
与...竞争并且你拥有
problem of tolerating yourself even in
甚至容忍自己的问题
all your insufficiency and one of the
你所有的不足和其中一个
things that seems to me to be the case
事情似乎是我的情况
is that if you adopt a sufficiently
如果你采用了足够的话
profound mode of being if you attempt to
如果你想尝试的话，这种深刻的生存模式
do that then the mere act of lifting up
那么做那只是举起来的举动
that weight is enough to justify
这个重量足以证明
the fact that your insufficient and
事实证明你的不足和
mortal and and bound by tragedy and I
凡人和受悲剧和我的约束
believe that and I believe people
相信和我相信的人
believe that because if you watch how
相信因为如果你看如何
people act they look for people they
人们行为，他们寻找人
admire and they do admire people right
佩服，他们确实佩服人们的权利
it's a natural it's a natural phenomena
这是一种自然现象
you see it starting with children be
你会看到它从儿童开始
children admire and then they imitate
孩子们欣赏，然后他们模仿
and we look to people who seem to be
我们期待谁似乎是人
able to bear the burden of being in a
能够承受身体负担
heroic manner and there's something
英勇的方式，还有一些东西
inside of us that calls to that and it
我们的内部调用到它
makes us want to to mimic that and to
使我们想要模仿和
follow it and I think that that's I
按照它，我认为这就是我
think that's the deepest and most
认为这是最深和最多的
profound of instincts and I think it's
本能深刻，我认为是
right and even if you're not so
正确的， 即使你不是这样
convinced on the positive end you know
坚信自己知道的积极的结果
because it's more difficult to be
因为它更难以被
convinced of the positive you can
确信你能做到
certainly be convinced on the negative
肯定会对消极情绪产生信心
end because there are ways of being that
结束，因为有被那个方式
are so brutal and so reprehensible that
是如此残酷和如此应受谴责的
merely to read about them is enough to
仅仅阅读它们就足够了
traumatize you and I think that if
伤害你，我认为如果
you're a person who hasn't lost their
你是一个没有失去自己的人
soul completely you can't help but
灵魂完全你不禁
encounter stories like that and shudder
遇到类似的故事和不寒而栗的故事
away from them and you know Alexander
远离他们，你知道亚历山大
Solzhenitsyn
索尔仁尼琴
who who was the person who did most
谁是谁做的最多的人
announce the absolute horrors of
宣布绝对的恐怖
communist totalitarianism said that he
共产主义极权主义说他
believed that the Nuremberg judgments
相信纽伦堡审判
were the most important event of the
是最重要的事件
20th century and that was the judgment
20世纪，那是判断
at the end of World War two that there
在第二次世界大战结束时那里
were certain actions that no one was to
是没有人会采取的某些行动
undertake no matter what their cultural
不管他们的文化是什么
background was because they were let's
背景是因为他们是我们的
say crimes against humanity that there
在那里说反人类罪
was such a thing as universal evil and
是一种普遍的邪恶和邪恶的东西
you can debate that you know I mean and
你可以辩论你知道我的意思和
people certainly have but the problem is
人们肯定有，但问题是
is if you debate that then you have to
是，如果你是辩论，那么你必须
say that there are conditions under
说有条件下
which the sorts of things that happen
哪些事情发生
say in the concentration camps which
说在集中营哪些
would be the gassing of children after
会是后来的孩子们的气
their torture and and their their
他们的酷刑和他们的
forcible removal from their parents and
强行从他们的父母和父母身上移除
all the terrible things that went along
所有可怕的事情都一起发生
with that that that's just okay it's
与那这只是还好它
just an opinion it's just something that
只是一个意见，它只是一些东西
happened and there are circumstances
发生了，有情况
under which that's justifiable if
如果是，那么这是合理的
there's no transcendent good and evil
没有超然的善与恶
underneath that argument it's only a
在这个论点之下它只是一个
matter of practicality and and and it
问题的实用性和和它
seems to me that that's that's not the
在我看来，那不是那个
right conclusion to draw
正确的结论来画
that's how it seems to me and that's
这就是我对此的看法
what the Solzhenitsyn concluded when he
索尔仁尼琴在他的时候得出了什么结论
looked at the Nuremberg trials so the
看着纽伦堡的审判，所以
notion that the notion that it was good
认为这是好的 概念
well even if you don't believe that and
那么即使你不相信这一点
you know because maybe it's not as good
你知道，因为它可能不太好
as it could be I would say it's
因为它可能是我会说的
incumbent on you as someone who
现任你为人
participates in the process of a
参与a的过程
furthering creation to act as if it
进一步创造就像它
could be good at least and to further
至少可以做得更好，并且可以做得更好
that with with all of your efforts
与你所有的努力
partly because what the hell else do you
一方面是因为你到底还在做什么
have to do that could possibly be better
必须这样做可能会更好
than that that could possibly justify
比可能有理由
your existence more than that and you
你的存在比你更多
know perfectly well if you if you have
如果你有的话，非常了解你
any sense at all if you think clearly
如果你想清楚的话，任何意义
about it at all is that that's what you
关于它的是，那就是你
want to see in everyone else you know
希望看到你认识的其他人
it's you're you're desperate and maybe
这是你，你是绝望的，也许
you're cynical and now and then someone
你是玩世不恭的，现在又是某个人
appears that acts at least momentarily
似乎至少在一瞬间起作用
like a light in the darkness enough
就像黑暗中的一盏灯
lifts your spirit up and gives you a
举起你的精神，给你一个
little bit of hope and maybe helps you
一点希望，也许可以帮助你
continue on well that's obviously a call
继续很好，这显然是一个电话
to being if it's a statement from your
到是如果它是从你的陈述
old soul that says well there's
那个说的很好的老灵魂
something about that that's how you
有关于此的事情就是这样
should be and maybe then well we get a
应该是，也许那么我们会得到一个
chance to to participate in what is good
有机会参与什么是好的
I thought too you know well we'll leave
我想你也知道我们会离开
that for a little later and God said let
对于稍后和上帝说，让
the earth sprout vegetation plants
地球发芽植物植物
yielding seed and fruit trees bearing
产生种子和果树
fruit in which is their seed each
他们的种子每个都是水果
according to its kind on the earth and
根据其种类在地上，
it was so and the earth brought forth
它是如此，地球产生了
vegetation plants yielding seed
植被产生种子
according to their own kind and trees
根据自己的种类和树木
bearing fruit in which is their seed
结出了他们的种子
each according to its kind and God saw
每个都按照其种类和神看到
that it was good and there was evening
这是好的，有晚上
and there was morning the third day I
第三天早上就有了
like that that's you see it's
就像你看到的那样
interesting these old pictures say
这些老照片有趣说
because if you look here you got you got
因为如果你看这里，你有你
this halo around God's head and you've
这个光环绕在上帝的头上，你已经
got to split again between night and
在晚上和晚上之间再次分裂
darkness and gods right on the on the
在黑暗和神灵上
border between the two and that's the
两者之间的边界，那就是
Sun right that's what that's what a halo
太阳这就是这就是光环
is halo is the Sun or the moon sometimes
有时候晕是太阳或月亮
it's like a coin you know you have the
这就像一个你知道你有钱的硬币
Queen's head on the coin and that's the
女王的头在硬币上，这就是
queen on the moon and it's silver and
女王在月球上，它是银色的
it's a symbol of value because of course
这是因为课程价值的象征
the Queen is sovereign and
女王是主权的
the moon is the sovereign of the night
月亮是夜晚的主人
sky and and gold of course is the Sun
天空和黄金当然是太阳
and gold is pure because it doesn't mix
黄金是纯粹的，因为它不混合
with other metals and it shines like the
与其他金属一样，它闪耀着
Sun so it partakes of the Sun and god
太阳因此它参与了太阳和上帝
partakes of the Sun because there's
因为有太阳参加太阳
something about whatever he represents
他所代表的任何东西
that's associated with consciousness and
这与意识和
illumination and enlightenment
照明和启发
it's that force of illumination
这就是照明的力量
enlightenment that's it's right on the
启蒙， 这是正确的
border between these two sets of
这两套之间的边界
phenomena and that's that's kind of what
现象，这就是那什么样的
that picture is trying to present and so
那张照片是试图展示等
you know it's a metaphor that's one way
你知道这是一个比喻的一种方式
of thinking about it but it does again
想到它，但它又一次
allude to the underlying idea that
暗示了这个基本的想法
there's something about consciousness
有关于意识的东西
that's integral to to being itself God
这是成为自己上帝不可或缺的
said let there be lights in the expanse
说让那里有灯
of the heavens to separate the day from
天堂将天分开
the night and let them be for signs and
夜晚，让他们为标志和
for seasons and for days and for years
季节和几天以及几年
that's a that's a remarkable bit of a
这是一个显着的一点
bit of writing there too because you
在那里写作也是因为你
just think about how bloody long it took
只要想一想它花了多长时间
our caveman ancestors to look at the
我们的穴居人祖先去看看
night sky and start to figure out that
夜空，并开始弄清楚，
there were repeating patterns across
有横跨重复的模式
years that enabled them to mark the
几年，使他们标志着
seasons I mean I just can't imagine how
季节我的意思是我无法想象如何
they figured that out it's that degree
他们想通了它是 学位
of careful observation that it took and
仔细观察，它采取了
I mean we know people figure that out a
我的意思是我们知道人们知道这一点
long time ago because ah you know those
很久以前，因为你知道那些
great megalithic monuments like
伟大的巨石纪念碑像
Stonehenge seem to be astronomical
巨石阵似乎是天文数字
observatories essentially and you see
本质上和你看到的天文台
the same thing with the pyramids I mean
我说的金字塔也是一样
people were looking at the damn sky
人们正在看那该死的天空
trying to figure out looking at God you
试图找出你在看着上帝
know because that's kind of what you're
知道，因为那就是你的样子
doing when you're looking at the night
当你在看晚上的时候
sky trying to figure out the regularity
试图找出规律性的天空
and order in the universe and that's all
并在宇宙秩序，这就是全部
compacted into this little light you
压缩成这个小光你
know and let them be for signs and for
知道并让他们为标志和为
seasons to be oriented by the Stars
季节以星为导向
amazing and that let them be lights in
令人惊叹的，让他们成为灯光
the expanse of heavens to give light
天堂的光芒
upon the earth and it was so and God
在地球上，它是如此，而且是上帝
made the two great lights the greater
使这两个伟大的灯光更大
light to rule the day and the lesser
轻以统治一天和更少
light to rule the night and the Stars
用来统治夜晚和星星的光
and God set them in the expanse of
上帝把他们放在广阔的空间里
heavens to give light on the earth to
天堂为地球上的光照
rule over the day and over the night and
统治白天和在晚上
so there's an idea of sovereignty there
所以有一个主权的想法
too right that that that there's an
太对了，以至于有一个
analogy between the ruler and the and
统治者与和 之间的类比
the heavenly bodies that that light up
那照亮的天体
the that light up the darkness
那照亮黑暗
essentially and that's a really
基本上， 这是一个真正的
interesting idea too because it took us
太有趣的想法，因为它带走了我们
a long time to come to terms with as I
很长一段时间来与作为我而言
mentioned last week to come to term
上周提到可以上任
with the idea of sovereignty itself and
与主权的想法本身和
to decide what constituted valid power
决定什么构成有效的权力
it's not power it's not power its
这不是电力，它不是电力
authority and competence and not power
权威和能力，而不是权力
it's not dominance either it's more
它不是支配地位，也不是更多
sophisticated than that because the
复杂的比，因为
people that you want to rule aren't
你想要统治的人不是
people who have power because power just
因为权力而拥有权力的人
means I can hurt you and you can't hurt
意味着我可以伤害你，你不会受伤
me back that's that's not that that's
我回来那是不是那样
not what you need from a ruler even
而不是你从统治者那里得到的东西
though it devolves into that from time
尽管它从时间流入
to time what you want is the kind of
到时候你想要的就是那种
wisdom that illuminates the darkness and
照亮黑暗和智慧的智慧
to associate the sovereign with with the
把主权与主权联系起来
heavenly kings of the light is a
天上的光明君王是一位
perfectly reasonable thing to do from a
从一个完全合理的事情做起
metaphoric perspective and that's an
隐喻的角度，这是一个
ancient ancient idea you know and
古老的古老想法你知道和
another example of how we're grounded in
我们如何着手的另一个例子
a dream that God set them in the expanse
一个梦想，上帝让他们在茫茫人海中
of heavens to give light on the earth to
天堂为地球上的光照
rule over the day in the night and to
统治白天在夜间 和
separate the light from the darkness and
将光线从黑暗中分离出来
God saw that it was good another
上帝看到这又是一件好事
emphasis on the fact that it was better
强调它更好的事实
that there was something than nothing
有什么比什么都没有
and you know maybe you could maybe you
你知道也许你也许也许你
could consider that the Declaration of
可以认为，宣言
the cosmos is something like well it's
宇宙是一样的东西以及它的
better that there's something than
好有什么东西比
nothing and well how do you know that
没有什么，以及你怎么知道这一点
and I guess the answer to that is that
我想这就是答案
there's something instead of nothing and
里面的东西，而不是什么与
I know that that's not proof but but
我知道那不是证据，但是
it's still a remarkable fact that it
它仍然是一个显着的事实
happens to be the case and no one does
恰好是这种情况，没有人会这样做
know why that is so maybe we should go
知道为什么会这样，也许我们应该去
along with it and see what we can do
与它一起，看看我们能做些什么
with it you know and see how we could
与它你知道，看看我们怎么能
make it better because we certainly
让它变得更好，因为我们当然
could if we were if we were really
如果我们真的可以的话
committed to it and we shook our
致力于它和我们握手了
resentment and our our anger and our
怨恨和我们的愤怒和我们的
hatred and I know there's reason for all
仇恨，我知道这是所有人的理由
of that because people do suffer
那是因为人们确实受苦
terribly but you know god only knows
可怕但你知道上帝只知道
what being could be like if we all
如果我们都可能会是什么样子
contributed it contributed to it to the
贡献了它促成了它的
best of our ability god only knows what
我们最好的能力上帝只知道什么
we could conquer and what sort of
我们可以征服，什么样的
magnificent cities we could produce and
我们可以生产和壮丽的城市
what things we could we could eradicate
我们可以根除哪些事情
from from from the suffering of the
从... 的痛苦中解脱出来
world
世界
and there was you know there's this guy
你知道有这个人
I read about this is amazing and I don't
我读到这个很棒，我不知道
remember his name but he he found out
记住他的名字，但他发现了
about this worm that was called the
关于这个被称为的蠕虫
guinea worm and guinea worm is a really
几内亚蠕虫和几内亚蠕虫真的是
horrible thing and you can look it up if
可怕的事情，你可以查看它，如果
you want but I'll tell you a little bit
你想，但我会告诉你一点点
about it even though it's very
关于它，即使它非常
distasteful so I get any worm is a
反感，所以我得到任何蠕虫是
parasite that lives in Africa and it
生活在非洲的寄生虫和它
burrows under your skin and it's quite
在你的皮肤下挖洞，这是相当的
long it's about that long and it's you
这是很长的，这是你
know about that wide and so it'll burrow
知道那么宽，所以它会挖洞
underneath your leg and then it's in
在你的腿下面，然后它就进入了
there you know and maybe it pokes its
在那里你知道，也许它捅了它
little head out a hole which is one of
小头出了一个洞，这是其中之一
its delightful tendencies and then if
它的令人愉快的倾向， 然后如果
you want to pull it out it breaks right
要拉出它打破权
because obviously because otherwise you
因为显然是因为否则你
just pull it out it would be dead and so
只要把它拉出来就会死了等等
it doesn't like that so it just breaks
它不喜欢，所以它只是打破
off and many many people had this
关闭和许多人有这个
horrible disease you know and it's well
可怕的疾病，你知道，它很好
you can you can't imagine what that
你无法想象那是什么
would be like because you're a part of
会是因为你是其中的一员
the 1% and you live in North America and
1％，你住在北美和美国
thank God for that but you know just a
感谢上帝，但你知道的只是一个
little imagine you don't even want to
很少想象你甚至不想
think about it let alone have it and he
想想看，更不用说拥有它和他了
went to Africa and wiped the damn thing
去了非洲，并去除了该死的东西
out it's like great you know it seems to
这看起来好像你知道似乎
me the planets a lot better off without
我的行星好多了没有
any guinea worms on it even though
它的任何几内亚蠕虫即使
that's like guinea worm genocide talk
这就像几内亚蠕虫种族灭绝谈话
I'm still you know pretty happy about it
我仍然很高兴知道这件事
and so that was that was one guy who
所以那是一个人
thought well we don't need these things
我们认为我们不需要这些东西
and yeah well fair enough you know and
而且你知道的和公平的就够了
yeah well so good for him like you know
好像你知道的那样对他好
I mean he can die thinking that the
我的意思是他可能会死于思考
world's a better place than it was when
世界是一个更好的地方比它是当
he first popped out and so so good for
他首先突然出现，如此好
that that NASA I think that's a good
那美国国家航空和宇宙航行局我认为这是一件好事
that's a good aim you know I think is to
这是你知道我认为的一个好目标
think that when you're on your deathbed
认为，当你在临终时
you can look back and think well there's
你可以回顾过去，好好想想
a little less suffering in the world
世界上的痛苦少一点
from here on out than there would be if
从这里出来比如果
I had never existed and that's a lot
我从来没有存在过，这很多
better than the opposite because it's
因为它比相反更好
certainly possible say if you're Stalin
当然可以说，如果你是斯大林
to ensure that there's a hell of a lot
以确保有很多地狱
more suffering in the world than there
世界上比这更痛苦
would have been if you hadn't lived and
如果你还没有生活和
we perfectly well know that people can
我们完全知道人们可以
manage that and that many many people
管理和许多人
try to do nothing but in that but manage
尽量不做任何事情，但在那，但管理
precisely that so and it's hard for me
正是如此，它是对我来说很难
not to think about that as some sort of
不要把它想成某种形式
metaphysical evil and I think it's the
形而上学的邪恶，我认为它是
right way to look at it and there was
正确的方式来看待它，并有
evening and there was morning.the 4th
晚上， 有4每日早晨
day so yeah you have the Sun here and
那么是的，你有太阳在这里和
then the moon here as far as I can tell
然后在这里尽我所能地告诉月球
yeah yeah actually I think this is the
是的， 其实我认为这是
moon over here but but so yeah that's
月亮在这里，但如此是的，那就是
part of the Sistine Chapel which is you
这是你的西斯廷教堂的一部分
know an absolutely remarkable and then
知道一个绝对卓越，然后
they know part of the reason - and the
他们知道部分原因 - 而且
part of the reason I'm teaching about
我正在教授的部分原因
these biblical stories is because you
这些圣经故事是因为你
know I'm thinking because the humanities
知道我在思考，因为人文科学
have be decimated so badly and again I
我已经被糟 dec 得很厉害了
think that has mostly to do with
认为这主要与此有关
resentment and hatred more than anything
怨恨和仇恨比什么都重要
else but I don't really think that you
别的， 但我真的不认为你
can get a grip on the humanities and
可以抓住人文和科学
what they have to offer without knowing
他们所提供的不知道
the biblical stories because they're the
圣经的故事，因为他们是
they're the dream out of which the
他们是这个梦的出发点
humanities emerge and so unless you have
人文科学出现，所以除非你有
that background knowledge that dream
那梦想的背景知识
then there's all sorts of things that
然后有各种各样的事情，
are utterly profound that don't open
是完全深刻的，不开放
themselves up to you and Dante's Inferno
他们自己和你的但丁的地狱
would be one of those and Milton's
将是那些和米尔顿之一
Paradise Lost which is an absolutely
失乐园是绝对的
amazing piece of work I mean Milton
一块神奇的工作我的意思是米尔顿
wrote it because he wanted to justify
写了它， 因为他想证明
the ways of God to man you know what an
上帝对人类的方式你知道什么是
ambition that is and I mean he was
这是我的意思，他的野心
serious about that he took the problem
认真对待他解决问题
seriously it's like it's the Memphis
严重的就像是孟菲斯
dethalian problem is that well this is a
dethalian问题是， 这是一个
rough business that were involved in and
粗糙的业务，涉及和
you know maybe maybe we should just give
你知道也许我们应该放弃
it up I think the world the whole world
它我认为这个世界是整个世界
I think was deciding that in the 1980s
我认为是在20世纪80年代
when we were deciding whether we going
当我们决定我们是否 去
to engage in the ultimate nuclear
从事最终的核能
catastrophe you know and we were very
灾难你知道，我们非常
very close to that a number of times and
非常接近那个次数
I think it was a collective decision in
我认为这是一个集体决定
some sense on the part of humanity that
这对人类来说有些意义
we might as well keep the whole awful
我们不妨保持整个可怕
game going rather than just demolish it
游戏而不是只是拆除它
but um but you know Milton he wrote
但是，但你知道他写的Milton
Paradise Lost - it's a dream again it's
失乐园 - 它再次成为梦想
a dream trying to explain the nature of
试图解释自然的梦想
being and the nature of evil and you
幸福和罪恶的性质和你
can't crack the damn thing without
无法破解这该死的东西，而不
knowing the underlying stories and
了解潜在的故事和
that's really too bad because it's
这真的太糟糕了，因为它
utterly profound and the reason you need
完全深刻和你需要的理由
profound things as far as I can tell you
我可以告诉你的是深刻的东西
need profound knowledge is because life
需要深刻的知识是因为生活
is actually a profound problem for
实际上是一个深刻的问题
everyone I mean you can shelter back and
大家对我的意思是你可以庇护回
live a very conservative existence and
过着非常保守的生活
look like more power to you I understand
看起来像更多的权力，你我明白
why you would do that but it doesn't
为什么你会这样做，但事实并非如此
stop you from having to face the
阻止你不得不面对
ultimate questions of life right there
终极的生活问题就在那里
right there in everyone's face and at
在每个人的脸上和在那里
least at some point your life and it
至少在某些时候你的生活和它
would be better if you could I think if
如果我能想到的话会更好
you could confront them full-on and
你可以全面对抗他们
to deal with them properly and to be a
妥善处理它们并成为一个
beacon of strength as a consequence of
作为后果的力量的烽火台
vadas and it's and I think that wisdom
vadas， 而且我认为这是智慧
that's what the humanities are supposed
这就是人文科学的设想
to teach his wisdom and wisdom is what
教他的智慧和智慧是什么
enables you to deal honorably with the
使您能够与光荣交易
tragedy of life and I think you I can't
生活的悲剧，我认为你我不能
see how you could think that that was a
看看你怎么会认为这是一个
bad idea because they're going to be
糟糕的主意，因为他们会
times when you're in an emergency room
你在急诊室的时间
and you know prone to panic and to and
你知道容易发生恐慌，并且
to cry and to break down and to and to
哭泣，分手，并去
collapse and to be of no use to anyone
崩溃并且对任何人都没有用处
around you and that's not the right way
在你身边，那不是正确的方法
to be it's the right way to be in a
是它是在一个正确的方式
situation like that is to be strong and
这样的情况是强
reliable and I don't think you can do
可靠，我不认为你能做到
that without being wise and you can't be
那不是明智的，你不可能
wise without putting yourself together
没有把自己放在一起
and without knowing something about
并且不知道什么
where you came from and what you're like
你来自哪里以及你喜欢什么
and that that's history and the
那就是历史和现实
humanities and so this isn't optional
人文等等，这不是可选的
it's it's it's more necessary the man
这是男人更需要的
does not live by bread alone and that's
不靠面包而生活，就是这样
exactly the issue here so you see these
正是这个问题，所以你看到这些
magnificent works you know I mean
你知道我的意思是宏伟的作品
there's a there's it's not like
有一个不是这样的
Michelangelo thought of this literally
米开朗基罗从字面上想到了这一点
you know he was a genius for god sake
你知道他是上帝的份天才
and he's trying to get at something and
而他的努力得到某样东西，
and he's trying to get at the profundity
他正在努力探索这个深度
of human culture I suppose that's why
人类的文化，我想这就是为什么
you have this patriarchal figure here
你在这里有这个父权制的身影
and the cosmic role that consciousness
和意识的宇宙角色
and tradition plays in being itself and
传统扮演着自己和自己的角色
and it's ennobling and you know you
它是高贵的，你知道你
think people religious or not people
认为人们是宗教或不是人
hundreds of millions of people come from
数以亿计的人来自
all over the world to Rome and go
世界各地的罗马和去
through this little tiny chapel to look
通过这个小小教堂看看
at this it's something in it that
在这里它是这样的
everyone needs to see you know it's not
每个人都需要看到你知道它不是
just beauty it's more than beauty it's
只是美而不是美而已
it's that which feeds the soul and
这是为灵魂提供食物的
everyone feels that even if they can't
即使他们不能，每个人都会感觉到
explain it so and God said let the
解释它，上帝说让
waters swarm with swarms of living
有群居的水域群
creatures and let birds fly above the
生物，并让鸟儿飞过
earth across the expanse of the heavens
地球横跨天空
so God created the great sea creatures
所以上帝创造了伟大的海洋生物
and every living creature that moves
和每一个移动的生物
with which the waters swarm according to
与该水域根据蜂拥
their kinds and every winged bird
他们的种类和每只翅膀的鸟
according to its kind and God saw that
根据其种类和上帝看到的
it was good and God blessed them saying
这很好，上帝保佑他们说
be fruitful and multiply and fill the
生养众多，并填补了
waters in the seas and that birds
海中的水和那些鸟
multiply on the earth and there was
在地球上繁衍，就有了
evening and there was morning the fifth
晚上， 第五天早上
day and God said let the earth bring
一天，上帝说让地球带来
forth living creatures according to
根据第一个生物
their kinds livestock and creeping
他们的牲畜和匍匐
beasts creeping things and beasts of the
野兽爬行的东西和野兽
earth
地球
according to their kinds and it was so
根据他们的种类和它是如此
and God made the beasts of the earth
上帝造了地上 的走兽
according to their kinds and the
根据他们的种类和
livestock according to their kinds and
牲畜根据种类和
everything that creeps on the ground
一切在地面上蔓延
according to its kind kind right that's
根据它的那种善良的权利
kin right and to be kind is to treat
亲善和善待就是要治疗
others as if they're your kin and so
其他人就好像他们是你的亲属一样
according to its kind and God saw that
根据其种类和上帝看到的
it was good that continually continually
这不断持续下去是件好事
represented over and over God said
上帝说，代表了上帝
that's the thing that calls being into
就是这样被调用到的东西
existence and God said it was good and
存在和上帝说，这是好的和
that's the fundamental judgment about
这是关于的基本判断
the nature of reality and you know one
现实 的本质和你知道的一个
of the things that happens in the in the
在...中发生的事情
translation in the movement let's say
让我们来说说运动中的翻译
from the Old Testament to the New
从旧约到新
Testament is God is obviously blessing
遗书是上帝显然是祝福
creation in the beginning of this story
在这个故事的开始创造
and then you have Old Testament God and
然后你有旧约的神和
like don't mess around with him right
就像不要惹他一样
because he'll give you a good smiting if
因为如果他会给你一个很好的打击
you get out of line there's no doubt
你走出行毫无疑问
about that and he's kind of an arbitrary
关于这一点，他是一个任意的
character and you know lots of modern
性格，你知道很多现代
people think well how could you believe
人们认为你怎么能 相信
in a God like that and it's like when I
在这样的上帝中，就像我一样
read that I think well that the Old
读到我认为旧的
Testament people that is how they
约翰的人就是这样
thought they thought you better look the
以为他们认为你最好看看
hell out because life is really
因为生活真的很糟糕
difficult and if you step out line
很难，如果你走出去线
you're going to get flattened and God
你会变得扁平化和上帝
doesn't care in some sense whether you
不管你是否在某种意义上都不关心
approve of him it's like what the hell
赞同他就像是地狱一样
does that have to do with anything
这是否与任何事情有关
obviously you don't approve it's like
显然你不赞成这样
you better pay attention though because
你最好注意，因为
otherwise you're going to be in real
否则你会成为现实
trouble and not there's real wisdom and
麻烦， 而不是有真正的智慧和
that Nietzsche thought that it need to
尼采认为它需要
really admire the Old Testament that's a
真的很佩服旧约那是一个
work of literature because he thought
因为他认为文学作品
that the representation of the divine
神的代表
let's say as a representation of the
比方说，为的表示
essential nature of being was
存在的本质是
extraordinarily accurate in its
非常准确的
arbitrary and often cruel nature you
任意而且往往残酷的你
know it wasn't following a morality that
知道这不是遵循道德的
human beings could really understand as
人类可以真正理解为
moral he thought that was very realistic
道德他认为这是非常现实的
and I like that interpretation but what
我喜欢解释，但什么
happens in the New Testament is quite
在新约中发生的事情是相当的
interesting because there's an
有趣，因为有一个
insistence all of a sudden in the New
坚持在新的突然
Testament that you're supposed to act
你应该采取行动的遗嘱
towards God as if he's nothing but good
对上帝来说，好像他只是个好人
and that's such a strange thing because
这是一件很奇怪的事情，因为
you know you look at the world it you
你知道你看看世界是你
think we're yeah really just good a well
认为我们是真的很好
the cancer and the earthquakes is kind
癌症和地震是亲切的
of hard to fit into that picture and you
很难适合那张照片和你
know the terrible things that happen to
知道发生的可怕事情
children and all about is very difficult
孩子和所有关于非常困难
to square with the notion of a good God
与善良的上帝的观念相一致
obviously
明显
but then there's the other underlying
但接下来还有另一个基础
idea is that if you act in that manner
想法是，如果你以这种方式行事
it makes it more likely to be true it's
它使它更可能是真实的
something like that and so it's that I
类似的东西， 所以这就是我
would consider that in some sense and
会在某种程度上认为和
active both courage and faith it's like
积极的勇气和信念就像
you're going to make the case like God
你要做出像神的情况下
makes at the beginning of the Bible that
在圣经的开头就说明了 这一点
being is in fact good now you can't see
现在实际上你是看不到的
it because well you get to see all the
这是因为你可以看到所有的东西
things about it that aren't so good
关于它的事情不那么好
that's not the point
那不是重点
it's a metaphysical presupposition
这是一个形而上学的前提
something like that it's a it's a
像这样的事情，它是一个
decision to act that way I'm going to
决定以我将要采取的方式行事
act as if being is good and to further
表现得好像还有进一步的表现
that and then the implicit idea is well
那隐含的想法是好的
there isn't anything that there isn't
没有任何东西没有
any way that you can make things work
任何方式，你可以使事情工作
out better than to do that and so
好于做到这一点，因此
there's a courageous element to it which
它有一个勇敢的因素
i think is also expressed to some degree
我认为也有一定程度的表达
in the idea of Christ's like voluntary
在基督像自愿的想法
sacrifice of his own life his
牺牲自己的生命
presupposition was something like I'm
预设就像我一样
going to act as if God is good and I'm
要行动，好像上帝是好的，我是
going to play that out right to the end
我们会把这一切发挥到最后
and now that becomes something like a
现在它变得像一个
divine pattern and I believe there's
神圣的模式，我相信那里
wisdom in that because again I most of
智慧在那，因为我再次是最
the time that I've been wrestling with
我一直在摔跤的时间
this sort of thing I've always been
这样的事情我一直
looking at the opposite I haven't been
看着对面我没有去过
studying good I've been studying evil
学习好我一直在研究邪恶
because evil is easier to believe
因为邪恶更容易相信
especially after the 20th century it's
特别是在20世纪之后
like I think you have to be you have to
就像我认为你必须是你必须的
be blind not to think about the things
盲目不去想事情
that happened in the 20th century as
发生在20世纪
evil and then some of the things that
邪恶，然后一些事情
happen we're so brutal it is just
发生，我们是如此残酷，它只是
absolutely unimaginable and well unless
绝对不可思议，除非
you imagine it and and it's it's it's
你想象它，它就是它
right there it's part of the historical
就在那里它是历史的一部分
record it's it and then I think well if
记录下来，然后我认为如果
there's something that that's it's that
有些事情就是这样
terrible it indicates as clearly as
可怕的是它表明得很清楚
anything can that there's also something
什么都可以，还有一些东西
that's its opposite and that's whatever
这是相反的，那就是无论如何
it is that the farthest away possible
这是最远的可能
from that outcome now that doesn't mean
从现在的结果来看，这并不意味着
we can exactly say what it is because
我们可以准确地说，这是什么原因
it's easier to grip in some sense what
从某种意义上说，抓握更容易
it means to torture and break and hurt
它意味着折磨，打破和伤害
and then not to be able to conceptualize
然后不能概念化
so clearly how you would have to act if
清楚你如何采取行动
you were acting in the exact opposite
你的表现完全相反
manner but at least it implies that it
但至少它意味着它
exists
存在
and I see that pattern being laid out in
我看到这种模式正在布局中
this dreamlike manner in the New
这在新的 梦幻般的方式
Testament and it has something to do
遗嘱和它有一些事情要做
with well it has something to do and
以及它有一些事情要做
this is for sure with the voluntary
这是肯定的自愿
acceptance of mortality because of
接受因死亡率
course that's the poisoned apple right
当然，这是毒苹果的权利
the fact that everybody looks forward
大家都期待的事实
into the future to know that you're
在未来知道你是
finite and so is everything that you
有限的，你的一切都是如此
love and it's very difficult for that
爱，这是非常困难的
not to poison your existence and well
不要毒害你的存在和好
there's no getting out of it as far as
有没有尽可能远离它
we can tell but there might be something
我们可以告诉但可能有些事情
like switching your attitude to it and
相似的转换你的态度它和
you could say well that's the price you
你可以说这就是你的价格
pay for being and the heroic thing to do
支付是和英雄的事
is to accept that and not even to accept
是接受，而不是连接受
it grudgingly to say alright I'm going
它勉强地说好的，我要走了
to go along with that I'm going to
与我要去一起去
accept that and I'm going to act
接受并且我会采取行动
nonetheless as if being is good and then
尽管如此，好像还是那样
I'm going to see how things turn out
我要看到的事情最终会如何
it's something like that and God saw
这就是这样的事情，上帝看到了
that it was good and so it's an act of
它是好的，所以这是一种行为
courage right there there's an act of
勇气就在那里有一种行为
courage that's associated with that
与此相关的勇气
transformation of attitude and even with
态度转换，甚至与
regards to the notion that the world is
关于这个世界是这样的概念
good it's a courageous attitude
好，这是一种勇敢的态度
especially given that there's so much
尤其是考虑到有这么多
evidence that makes that conclusion
证据表明这一结论
difficult to continually draw but the
难以持续吸引但是
alternative seems to me to be far worse
对我来说替代似乎更糟糕
so there's God again with the Sun behind
所以在太阳背后还有上帝
him because he's associated with the
他，是因为他与关联
solar consciousness and he's creating
太阳意识和他的创造
all these strange wonderful creatures
所有这些奇怪的奇妙生物
and and you know it's a and people say
而且你知道这是一个和人们说的
well you know the idea of God as a an
好吧，你知道上帝的想法是一个
old man in the sky let's say that's
天空中的老男人让我们说这是
primitive it's much more better to think
原始思考要好得多
about it as a much more better Jesus
关于它是一个更好的耶稣
anyways it's more sophisticated to think
无论如何，思考更复杂
to think of the divine essence as a
把神的本质视为一种
disembodied spirit or something like
无形的精神或类似的东西
that but you know that's not so that's
但你知道那不是那么回事
not so obvious either because as I
不是很明显，因为像我一样
already pointed out there isn't anything
已经指出没有任何东西
that's more complicated than a human
这比人类更复杂
being and and so the idea that the
正在和和所以这个想法
divine is something that's at least as
神圣的东西至少是这样的
complicated as a human being strikes me
当人类袭击我时，会变得复杂
as something that's actually quite
作为其实相当的 东西
reasonable and I know it's a metaphor
合理，我知道这是一个比喻
although I don't know to what degree it
虽然我不知道它到底是什么程度
is a metaphor and it's also something
是一个隐喻，也是一些东西
that's embodied and I really that's also
这是体现的，我真的也是
a very interesting notion
一个非常有趣的概念
you know because it's become
你知道，因为它成了
increasingly obvious as we tried to do
正如我们试图做的那样越来越明显
such things as produce artificial
诸如产生人造的东西
intelligence that it's very difficult to
智力， 这是非常困难的
produce an intelligence or perhaps a
产生一种情报或者一种情绪
consciousness that isn't embodied in
没有体现的意识
some manner it can't be just it can't be
某种方式它不能只是它不能
just a spirit the spirit without form
只是一种没有形式精神的精神
and I think that's part of the reason to
我认为这是理由的一部分
why Christianity put so much emphasis at
为什么基督教把这么多的重视，在
the end of time on the resurrection of
复活的时间结束了
the body because there's there's a
身体，因为那里有一个
there's a drive in there to e Noble to
那里有一个驱动器让贵族去
ennoble the idea of the body not just
高尚的身体不仅仅是想法
the spirit the consciousness that floats
精神浮动的意识
abstractly above the body but to say
抽象地高于身体，但要说
that no you can't do that you can't just
不，你不能这样做，你不能只是
shed that part of you that's heavy and
摆脱那些沉重而又沉重的部分
material so to speak and leave it behind
可以说的材料并将其留在后面
as if it's of no value you have to be
就好像它是没有价值的，你必须要
Noble and Noble that as well and that
贵族和贵族也是如此
idea is also linked to the note to the
想法也与注释相关联
representation of God as as a human
上帝作为人类的代表
being and as a wise human being and as
作为一个智慧的人类和作为
something that's embodied and so at
这是体现的，如此
least from the metaphorical perspective
至少从隐喻的角度来看
I don't think it's reasonable just to to
我不认为这是合理的
brush your hands across it and say well
刷你的手穿过它，并说好
that's that's primitive because I don't
那是原始的， 因为我没有
think it is I don't think it's primitive
认为这是我不认为这是原始的
at all and then God said let us make man
然后上帝说让我们做人
in our image after our likeness and it's
在我们的形象之后，我们的形象和它的
our because well this is a this is part
我们因为这是一个这是一部分
of the priestly story there's as I said
正如我所说的那样 ， 这是神父故事的一部分
a number of sources for the Old
旧的一些来源
Testament and in the priestly version if
遗嘱和在祭司版本如果
I remember correctly its Elohim that may
我记得它的Elohim可能是正确的
be wrong doesn't matter but the
错了不要紧，但
precisely it doesn't matter because the
恰恰它并不重要，因为
notion is is that the God who's in the
概念就是那个在神中的神
background of this story has a kind of
这个故事的背景有一种
plurality of being right and it looks
多个是正确的，它看起来
like the idea of monotheism arose with
就像一神论的想法出现了
great difficulty across time because
跨越时间很困难， 因为
there are lots of powers and the idea
有很多权力和想法
that there's a power of powers was
有权力的权力是
something that it wasn't easy for people
这对人们来说并不容易
to figure out you know in it because
找出你的，因为知道
what what constant across sources of
什么东西是不变的
power or some kind of meta power but
权力或某种类型的权力，但
it's hard to figure out what that is and
很难弄清楚那是什么和
that's what's being represented by by
这就是所代表的
the movement as far as I can tell from
据我所知，这个运动
polytheism to monotheism it's it's the
多神教对一神论它是它的
first the observation that there are
先观察，有
powers that determine the destiny of
决定命运的权力
people at least in part that you
人们至少部分 你
that you're subject to and then the idea
你受制于然后是主意
that there's something common across all
所有人都有共同点
those powers that you can represent
你可以代表的那些权力
partly say with the idea of the Sun
部分与太阳的想法有关
rising in the morning and fighting its
在上午的上升和它战斗
way out of the darkness at night and
在夜晚和黑暗中走出黑暗
that that's associated with
那是与之相关的
consciousness and sovereignty is very
意识和主权是非常
very see one of the things that bothers
非常看到其中一件让人烦恼的事情
me about simple-minded atheism and I
我关于头脑简单的无神论和我
would say the simple-minded atheism is
会说简单的无神论是
of the sort that regards these stories
那些关注这些故事的那种
as nothing but simple superstitions is
就像简单的迷信一样
that it's very very poorly informed
这是非常非常知情
because whatever these stories are
因为无论这些故事是什么
they're not merely simple superstitions
他们不仅仅是简单的迷信
they weren't conjured up by some cabal
他们没有被一些阴谋迷惑
of priests to bamboozle the masses even
甚至祭司们也可以哄骗群众
though they were used for that purposes
尽管它们被用于这个目的
from time to time it's much much more
不时有更多
complicated than that they have a very
比他们有一个非常复杂
ancient lineage and they're tied
古代的血统，他们被捆绑
together with all sorts of other stories
连同各种其他故事
and there's there's an emergent wisdom
那里有一种新的智慧
in them and I think the right way to
在他们和我认为正确的方式
view them is as the birthplace of
查看它们是作为的发源地
sophisticated philosophical ideas and so
精致的哲学思想等等
you have to wrestle with these stories
你必须与这些故事搏斗
you can't just and I said already that
你不能只是，我已经说过了
I'm going to be as rational as I
我会像我一样理性
possibly can in my discussion of these
可能可以在我的这些讨论中
stories and not refer to anything
故事而不是指任何东西
metaphysical except when that's
形而上除非是这样
absolutely necessary even though I don't
即使我没有，也是绝对必要的
want to eliminate the possibility of a
想要消除一个可能性
metaphysical reality because I think
因为我认为形而上的现实
that's premature but but you have to
这是不成熟的，但你必须
take the story seriously if you're going
如果你要去认真对待故事
to if you're if you're going to if
如果你是，如果你要如果
you're going to approach the problem
你会解决这个问题
properly you can't just casually dismiss
正确地说，你不能随便解雇
them it's not appropriate and so so let
他们不合适，所以让
us make man in our image that's a very
我们让我们的形象成为一个非常非常的人
interesting idea and like I said it's
有趣的想法，就像我说的那样
not easy to understand how it was that
不容易理解这是怎么回事
human beings came up with the idea that
人类想出的想法，
us lowly creatures were so it with the
我们这些低微的动物都是如此
Mesopotamians for example and the Greeks
例如美索不达米亚人和希腊人
were like this to human beings weren't
像这样对人类不是
godlike they were
他们是神
the playthings of the gods right they
神的玩具正确他们
were they were just the gods just
他们只是神而已
tortured us for their amusement you know
折磨我们为他们的娱乐你知道
love and hatred and anger and all those
爱和仇恨以及所有这些
powerful forces we were just
我们只是强大的力量
you're just playthings to the gods there
你只是玩神的地方
wasn't anything particularly divine
没有什么特别的神圣
about us the notion that in some sense
关于我们在某种意义上的概念
we partake of the divine that's a
我们分享了神圣的一面
staggering idea and you don't want to
令人咋舌的想法，你不想
under underestimate the difficulty that
低估了这个难度
there was in abstracting that or the
有人在抽象这个或那个
utility of that idea for our current
这个想法对我们目前的实用性
mode of being
生存方式
let them have dominion over the fish of
让他们掌握鱼的权力
the sea and over the birds of the
海洋和鸟类的
heavens and over the livestock and all
天堂和地上的牲畜和全
the earth and over every creeping thing
地球和每一个爬行的东西
that creeps on the earth so God created
那是神在地上创造的
man in his own image in the image of God
以自己的形象表现上帝的形象
he created him male and female he
他创造了他的男性和女性他
created them that's interesting because
创造了他们很有趣，因为
there is more than one creation story in
有不止一个创作故事
Genesis and in this story males and
创世纪和这个故事中的男性和女性
females are basically created at the
女性基本上是在创造
same time later Eve is extracted out of
同时后伊芙被提取出来的
Adam and we'll talk about that but not
亚当，我们会谈论但不是
here it's the two sexes are generated
这里是两个性别的产生
simultaneously and they both carry
同时，他们都携带
within them the divine stamp which is
在他们内部是那个神圣的邮票
very egalitarian and very appropriate
非常平等，非常合适
and I think unbelievably advanced that
我认为令人难以置信的是先进
that's what it looks like to me and God
这就是我和上帝看起来的样子
blessed them well that's a good thing
就赐福给他们清楚，是一件好事
and God said to them be fruitful and
上帝对他们说，富有成效
multiply and fill the earth and subdue
繁殖和填补地球，并制服
it and have dominion over the fish of
它并且拥有对这条鱼的统治权
the sea and over the birds of the
海洋和鸟类的
heavens and over every living thing that
天堂和每一个生物的东西
moves on the earth and there's God
在地球上移动，有上帝
creating Adam and Eve and they're
创造亚当和夏娃，他们是
looking pretty happy about the whole
看起来整个都很开心
thing and that's Michelangelo's famous
这是米开朗基罗的名声
Sistine Chapel representation and
西斯廷教堂的代表和
there's some cool things about this I
这个我有一些很酷的事情
mean you got to wonder this this is a
意味着你不得不想这是一个
side and I don't know if it's a credible
我不知道这是否可信
side but it's an interesting aside so
但这是一个有趣的事情
that's that's a form of credible what
那是一种可信的形式
the hell is God doing in this thing now
到底是神在这件事情现在做
I mean what is this exactly and and so
我的意思是，这是什么，正是如此
there's been some interesting answers to
还有的是一些有趣的答案
that and this is one of them so there
即，这是其中之一，所以有
was a group of scientists about 20 years
是一群大约二十年的科学家
ago that that were remarked on the
以前，被说的那
precise the precise analogy between this
精确地比较这一点
structure and the brain bisected down
结构和大脑一分为二
the middle and of course Michelangelo
中间，当然米开朗基罗
was one of the first people who did
是最早的人之一
detailed dissections and so they felt
详细的解剖，所以他们感觉
that that that Michelangelo had put God
那个米开朗基罗把上帝放在那里
inside the brain for some reason and
出于某种原因和大脑
that seems to me to be associated with
在我看来， 要关联
the notion that there's you know there's
这是你知道的概念
a there's an analogy or metaphorical
有一个比喻或隐喻
identity between the notion of whatever
无论什么概念之间的身份
God is and the structures that give rise
上帝是和产生结构
to consciousness and I think we really
意识，我认为我们真的
underestimate the
低估了
degree to which consciousnesses is both
该意识程度既
say miraculous and and not understood I
说奇迹，而不理解我
mean you know you you have what appears
意味着你知道你有什么出现
to be an entirely material substrate yet
成为一个完全物质基板呢
here you are aware itself aware and able
在这里你意识到自己的意识和能力
to generate the world merely in some
仅仅产生世界一些
sense by looking at it it really is
通过看它真的是感觉
remarkable and that consciousness is
显着而且意识是
dependent on on something that Wells up
依赖于Wells的东西
from deep within that material substrate
从该材料基底的深处
that we don't understand at all it's
我们完全不了解它
it's really a crazily remarkable thing
这真是一件非常不寻常的事情
you know and you hear you hear a lot
你知道，你听到你听到很多
about scientific reductionism but I'll
关于科学还原论，但我会的
tell you something that's kind of
告诉你一些事情
interesting in this it's a tangent to
有趣的是这是一个切线
you know the guy that discovered DNA I
你知道发现DNA的那个家伙
think it was Watson and just walks in
认为这是沃森， 然后走进来
and Crick but I don't remember who wrote
和克里克，但我不记得是谁写的
this book but one of them I don't
这本书，但其中的一个 我不
remember which one he believed the DNA
记住他认为哪一个DNA
was so complicated that it had to come
太复杂了，它不得不来
from space he didn't believe it could
从他认为不可能的空间开始
have possibly evolved on earth and so
有可能在地球上演化等等
like a lot of these people who are used
就像很多这些使用过的人一样
as exemplars of scientific reductionism
作为科学还原论的范例
aren't like that at all when you
不喜欢，在所有当你
actually read what they had to say right
实际上读了他们必须说的话
they they were very aware of the limits
他们，他们非常清楚的界限
of their own knowledge and I mean DNA is
他们自己的知识，我的意思是DNA是
something really quite spectacular Lee
一些非常壮观的李
remarkable it's an eternal substance
它是一个永恒的物质
it's been around for a very long time
它已经存在很长时间了
and the idea that we understand it is a
而我们理解它的想法是
very stupid idea and I would say that I
非常愚蠢的想法，我会说我
would say that the same thing applies to
会说同样的事情适用于
the brain like where we're scratching
脑等，其中我们刮伤
away at the surface of something we
离开我们的东西的表面
don't understand at all
根本不理解
so it's quite interesting I think that
所以我觉得这很有趣
and it maybe Michelangelo had enough
也许米开朗琪罗已经够了
gall to do that it's certainly possible
胆子这样做，这当然是可能的
I mean he had enough gall to do
我的意思是他有足够的胆量去做
dissections when the when the cost of
解剖什么时候的成本
that was death you know he had this
那是死亡，你知道他有这个
robbed corpses essentially to go and do
抢尸体基本上去做
it so he was he wasn't I would say not
这让他感到他不是我要说的不是
particularly politically correct so so
特别是政治正确，从而使
that's kind of interesting and there's
这很有趣，有
another representation of the same thing
同样的事情另一种表示形式
and that's a funny one I had to throw
这是我不得不抛出的一个有趣的
that in I don't know how many of you
在我不知道你们有多少人
know this but there's there's there's
知道这一点， 但那里是存在的
this joke in the atheistic atheist
这个无神论无神论者的笑话
community I think it might have be
我认为这可能是社区
started by Richard Dawkins but that
理查德道金斯开始但那
might be wrong that it was just as
可能是错误的，它是一样的
reasonable to believe in the Flying
合理地相信飞行
Spaghetti Monster as it was to believe
意粉怪物，因为它是相信
in God into that's a Flying Spaghetti
在上天入，这是一个飞面
Monster by the way and and and so that's
怪物顺便说一句，那就是这样
that's called cuts by his noodly
这被称为削减他的noodly
appendage and anyways it's fine it's not
附件和反正它是好的它不是
very sophisticated but it is funny so
非常复杂， 但很有趣
and God blessed them and God said to
神就赐福给他们，上帝说：
them be fruitful and multiply and fill
他们成果丰硕，充实
the earth and subdue it and have
地球并且制服它并且有
dominion over the fish of the sea and
统治海洋和海洋的鱼
over the birds of the heaven and over
在天上过的鸟
every living thing that moves on the
每一个生命的东西在移动
earth and God said behold I have given
大地和神说，我已经给了
you every plant yielding seed that is on
你每一棵植物都会产生种子
the face of all the earth and every tree
所有地球和每棵树的脸
with seed in its fruit you shall have
在它的果实种子，你有权
them from for food and every beast of
他们从食物和每一个野兽
the earth and every bird of the heavens
地球和天空中的每一只鸟
and to everything that creeps on the
以及所有在这些 事情上蔓延的东西
earth everything that has the breath of
把所有有气息的东西都接地
life I have given every green plant for
生活中，我已经给每一个绿色植物
food and it was so and God saw
食物，它是如此，上帝看到
everything he had made and behold it was
他所做的一切，看它都是如此
very good and there was evening and
非常好，晚上还有
there was morning the sixth day thus the
那么第六天早上就有了
heavens and the earth were finished and
天堂和地球完成了
all the host of them and on the seventh
所有的主机和第七
day God finished his work that he had
一天上帝完成了他的工作，他有
done and he rested on the seventh day
完成了，他休息了第七天
from all his work that he had done so
从他的一切，他做了这样 的工作
God blessed the seventh day and made it
上帝祝福第七日并成功
holy because on it God rested from all
圣洁，因为上帝从一切中休息
his work that he had done in creation I
他说，他 在创作我所做的工作
like that - you know one of the why did
像那样-你知道这是为什么
a lot of counseling work with people who
很多辅导工作的人谁
were coaching work I guess with people
我想和人们一起进行教练工作
who were fairly spectacular ly
谁是相当壮观的
successful and they were usually
他们通常是成功的
workaholics you know they're the sort of
工作狂你知道他们是那种
people that were like they work 80 hours
这就像人们他们的工作80小时
a week non-stop
一周不停
that's just what they were like and one
这就是他们的样子和一个
of the things we were always trying to
我们一直在努力的东西
figure out was well how much should you
弄清楚你应该多少
work because one answer is you just work
因为你只是工作而已
till you die right I mean he just
直到你死的权利我的意思是他只是
exhaust yourself and well that's not
用尽自己，那不是
that's not a good idea and then you have
这不是一个好主意，然后你有
to figure out why that isn't a good idea
弄清楚为什么这不是一个好主意
it's got to be something like this is
它必须是这样的
that you don't want to do so much work
你不想 做这么多工作
that the amount of work you do
你做的工作量
interferes with the amount of work that
干扰了大量的工作
you could still do right because if you
你仍然可以做对，因为如果你
work like mad for two weeks and then you
像疯狂的工作两个星期，然后你
like you have to lie in a hospital bed
就像你必须躺在病床上一样
for a month that obviously isn't very
一个月显然不是很多
productive so you have to figure out how
生产力，所以你必须弄清楚如何
much you can work diligently and then
你可以努力工作，然后工作
how much you have to recuperate so that
你有多大的休养生息，使得
you can get back up and work again and
你可以恢复并重新工作
you know that's people have basically
你知道这是人们基本上
settled on something like this and given
看中了这样的事情，并给出
it the divine imprimatur that that's one
它是神圣的保证，那是唯一的
way of thinking about it which is well
想着这其中的方法是很好
you can toil away for six days and no
你可以努力工作六天，没有
wonder because you have to work but you
奇怪，因为你必须工作，但你
should rest at least one day out of
应至少休息一天
seven
七
otherwise well you don't appreciate life
否则你不会欣赏生活
that might be part of it and plus I
这可能是它的一部分，加上我
think it's more a matter of iterative
认为这更多是一个迭代的问题
durability you know because one of the
耐久性你知道，因为其中之一
things that defines morality is the
定义道德的东西是
capacity to repeat something right so if
如果能够重复正确的话
something is properly structured in a
一些东西在一个正确的结构中
moral manner then you can do it over and
道德方式，那么你可以做到这一点，并且
over and over again without any
一遍又一遍没有任何
degeneration and so that's kind of like
退化，所以这是有点像
a relationship if your relationship is
一个关系，如果你的关系是
negotiated you can continue to negotiate
谈判你可以继续谈判
it and then you can have a relationship
它然后你可以有一个关系
that lasts for a long time you can do it
持续很长时间你可以做到这一点
today and next week and next month the
今天和下周以及下个月的
next year you could maintain it across
明年你可以维持它
time and this I would say is the wisdom
时间，我会说这是智慧
that's been a so that's been garnered
这一直是一个这样被赢得的
over god only knows what period of time
在只有上帝知道的时候什么时期
to say well look I mean even God needed
说得好看我的意思是即使上帝需要
to take a break and appreciate what was
休息一下，欣赏什么
going on and it's not such a bad thing
继续下去，这不是一件坏事
for people to follow that that pattern
让人们遵循那种模式
and that's a good thing for modern
这对现代人来说是件好事
people to know because we seem to be
人们知道，因为我们似乎是
even though you know we're very wealthy
即使你知道我们非常富有
by historical standards our capacity to
按照历史标准我们的能力
relax isn't exactly what it could be and
放松并不完全是它可能的
I think that's really hard on people
我认为这是真的很难对人
okay so I'm going to go over again the
好吧，所以我要再次过去
idea of the attributes of God I talked
我谈到的上帝属性的想法
about that a little bit last week but I
关于这一点上周，但我
want to return to it because I think
想回到它，因为我认为
it's worth it's worth dwelling on a
值得一提的是它值得一写
little bit because we're trying to
点点，因为我们正在努力
figure out what it is that people were
弄清楚它是什么， 人们
trying to formulate when they were
试图制定他们的时间
formulating these representations and we
制定这些表示和我们
sort of come to the conclusion that
有人得出这样 的结论
they're there there's an attempt to
他们在那里有一个尝试
abstract out the nature of power from
从中抽象出权力的本质
specific aspects of power and there's
有权力的具体方面
some attempt to associate that with
有些人试图把它与之联系起来
consciousness as that which gives rise
意识就是那种产生的意识
to being itself and there's some attempt
成为自己，并有一些尝试
to associate that consciousness with
把意识与... 联系 起来
something that has a cosmic quality
具有宇宙质量的东西
whatever that might mean and and it's a
无论这可能意味着什么， 它是一个
statement that it has a cosmic quality
声明它具有宇宙质量
rather than rather than a discovery it's
而不是发现它
a mere statement that there's that
一个简单的陈述就是这样
there's something about consciousness
有关于意识的东西
that has world generating significance
具有世界意义
and also the implication that it's
还有它的含义
associated with human beings as well
与人类有关
very and it's a very interesting set of
非常，这是一个非常有趣的集合
propositions and I don't believe that
命题，我不相信
they're simply refutable like it's a
它们只是简单的可以反驳的
perfectly coherent argument even though
即使是完全一致的论点
it's primarily made metaphorically and
它主要是隐喻性的
so then once again I want to build up
所以我再次想要建立起来
the
该
the framework of associations around the
周围的协会框架
idea of God one of the things that Freud
上帝的想法是弗洛伊德的事情之一
did when he was interpreting dreams and
他在解释梦境和梦境时做过
it's quite useful you know so if someone
它是非常有用的，你知道，所以，如果有人
comes to me with a dream then I have
我梦到我了
them tell me the whole dream and then I
他们告诉我整个梦，然后告诉我
get them to repeat it line by line and
让他们逐行重复它，
then whenever they say a line and it
然后每当他们说一行和它
there's an object in it or a person or
其中有一个物体或一个人或一个物体
something like that I ask them what that
类似的东西 ，我问他们是什么
makes them remember or what that thing
让他们记住或者说那是什么
means to them or what comes to mind and
对他们意味着或想到什么和
that's the associational technique and
那就是联想技巧和
it's predicated on the idea that your
它的预测是基于你的想法
memory works by association and you know
记忆通过关联工作，你知道
that if you're daydreaming you know you
如果你做白日梦，你就认识你
go from one thing to another like a
从一件事到另一件像一个
conversation does and that you can take
谈话确实如此，你可以采取
an idea that's at the center of a web of
一个位于网络中心的想法
associations and by attracting the
协会通过吸引
associations you can kind of zero in on
你可以把它们放在一起
what the idea might need and then you
这个想法可能需要什么，然后你
expanded that by trying to he called it
通过试图叫他来扩大 这个范围
to amplify the dream by thinking about
通过思考来放大梦想
about narrative or literary or
关于叙事或文学或
mythological similarities that that
神话般的相似之处
might be associated with the narrative
可能与叙述 有关
structure of the dream and and I think
梦想的结构和我想
often that can be unbelievably useful
通常这可能是令人难以置信的有用的
you know and it's like the dream is an
你知道，这就像梦是一个
idea that's trying to come to birth it's
这是试图诞生的想法
partly formulated and then if you
部分制定，然后如果你
discuss it and amplify it it's like you
讨论它并放大它就像你一样
can speed along its transformation into
可以沿着其转化成速度
a more articulated idea and the dream is
一个更明确的想法和梦想是
also something that because your brain
也是因为你的大脑
your mind is trying to with one foot in
你的大脑试图用一只脚进入
the unknown it's trying to formulate
它试图制定的未知数
what's out there in the unknown and to
那里有什么在未知 和
make it concrete but but it doesn't do
使其具体，但它不这样做
that in one fell swoop it doesn't just
这一举不止
take potential and turn it into two
发挥潜力并将其转化为两种
articulated ideas it has to dream up
明确的想法，它必须梦想
what's out there first projects its
那里有什么是第一个项目
imagination out there to get a handle on
想象一下在那里得到处理
what it might be it then that's
那可能是什么呢？
presented in the dream and if you
在梦中呈现，如果你
analyze the dream you can make it more
分析你可以做得更多的梦想
articulate and so that's what we're
口齿伶俐，所以这就是我们的
going to do with the attributes of God
去做与上帝的属性
to build up the representational
建立代表性
structure a little bit so so the
构建那么一点点 ，因此
hypothesis is that God is an abstracted
假设是上帝是一个抽象的
ideal formulated in large part to
非常适合大部分制定
dissociate the ideal from any particular
从任何特定的理想中分离出来
incarnation or man or ruler and the
化身或男人或统治者和
underlying idea there too is that when
那里的基本想法也是那个时候
the ruler becomes the ideal the state
统治者成为理想的状态
turns into the biblical Egypt and the
变成圣经的埃及和圣经
biblical Egypt is a tyranny
圣经的埃及是一个暴政
and so there's a very very solid idea in
所以有一个非常坚实的想法
the Old Testament that I think took
我认为这是旧约
people god only knows how long to figure
人只有上帝知道多久图
out that if you transformed if you
如果你改变了，如果你
confuse the notion of sovereign
混淆主权的概念
sovereignty with the current sovereign
主权与目前的主权
then your culture immediately
那么你的文化立即
degenerated into totalitarian state and
堕落成极权主义国家和地区
turned to stone and that was deadly then
变成了石头， 那是致命的，然后
you were slaves and then the thing was
你是奴隶，那么事情就是这样
going to collapse as well like no matter
即将崩溃，以及像不管
how big and grandiose as soon as the
多大和宏伟的尽快
ruler became the concrete incarnation of
成为统治者的具体化身
the ideal there was no distinction
没有任何区别的理想
between the man and the divine notion of
之间的男人和神圣的概念
the ideal then the society was doomed
那么社会的理想就注定了
and I think that that's a less I think
我认为这不是我想的
that's what I think that's true it's
这就是我认为这是事实
just as simple as that and I think we
就像那样简单，我想我们
saw more than enough evidence of that in
看到比在有足够多的证据
the 20th century and we're certainly
20世纪，我们当然是
seeing the same thing repeating itself
看到同样的事情重演
now when the ruler becomes the ideal the
现在当统治者成为理想的时候了
state turns into the biblical Egypt and
状态变成圣经的埃及和
the biblical Egypt is the archetypal
圣经的埃及是原型
tyranny so what is God like well from
暴政究竟 什么是神井状从
the Christian perspective there's three
基督徒的观点有三个
elements one is seems to have something
元素之一似乎有一些东西
to do with tradition and so that's God
与传统有关，所以这就是上帝
the Father and that's partly the
父亲，这部分是
embodiment I would say of the human
我想说的是人的体现
being because that's an ancient ancient
因为那是一个古老的古代
thing and it's also partly the
事情，这也是部分原因
embodiment of the tradition of human
体现人类的传统
beings which is also a very ancient
这也是一个非常古老的生物
thing and that's the structure as I said
这就是我说的结构
it's the structure that consciousness
这是意识的结构
emerges from that enables us to grapple
从那里出现使我们能够擒拿
with the unknown as such and then
与未知的一样，然后
there's there's the the intermediary
那里是中介
between that and and Christ say that's
在那和之间，基督说这就是
the holy spirit that's that bird and
那是那只鸟的神圣灵魂
that's that's the spirit in a more
这是这是更精神
abstracted sense and I would say that's
抽象的意义，我会说这是
probably as close as Christianity ever
可能跟基督教一样接近
got to the notion of consciousness as
有了意识的概念
such you know disembodied consciousness
这样你就知道了无知的意识
something like that and then there's the
类似的东西， 然后就是这样了
notion of the suffering individual and
受苦个人的概念
and that's that's a very complicated
这是一个非常复杂的问题
idea and it's something like in order
想法和它是如此有序
for so there's this idea an old idea and
因为这个想法是一个古老的想法和
I believe this was originally a Jewish
我相信这原本是犹太人
idea that a something with the
认为某事与
attributes of God omniscience
上帝无所不在的属性
omnipresence and omnipotent lacks
无所不在，无所不能缺乏
something
某物
so it's like a Zen koan it's a really
所以它就像是一个真正的禅宗koan
interesting idea what won the world can
有趣的想法是什么赢得了世界可以
something like that lack and the idea is
就像缺乏这个想法一样
limitation so something that's
限制，东西是
everything lacks limitation and that's
一切都缺乏限制，这是
got that idea like when I first
像我第一次那样得到这个想法
encountered that just blew me away I
遇到那只是把我吹走了我
thought it was such a such a brilliant
认为这是如此的辉煌
brilliant realization that there are
有明确的认识
advantages to not being able to do
优势不能够做
things because partly because it gives
因为部分是因为它给了
you something to do I suppose that's
你想做的事情我想是的
that's a big part of it right is if you
如果你有这个问题，那么这很重要
had everything you wanted that at every
拥有你想要的每一样东西
moment at your fingertips well that
那一刻就在你的指尖上
that's there's there's nothing there's
那就是没有什么
no story and it's funny you know because
没有故事，你知道这很有趣，因为
that happened to Superman you know the
那发生在你知道的超人身上
the cartoon character by the 1980s he
由20世纪80年代的卡通人物，他
could juggle planets and you could
可以玩弄行星， 你可以
bounce like hydrogen bombs off him and
反弹像氢弹干掉他，
be fine and it's like everyone got bored
没问题，就像每个人都感到无聊
because well what we're going to do to
因为我们正在做的是什么
Superman like you love a hydrogen bomb
像你的超人喜欢氢弹
atom and he just brushes it off and like
原子，他只是把它刷掉和喜欢
combs his hair and that's the end of
梳理他的头发， 那就是结束了
that and the whole cartoon series
那和整个卡通系列
basically died because he didn't have
基本上因他没有死亡而死亡
any flaws there's no story without the
任何瑕疵有没有故事，没有
limitation and I think that's an
限制，我认为这是一个
absolutely remarkable idea and so part
绝对非凡的想法和如此的一部分
of the notion of Christ and this is
这是基督的概念
something that I puzzled over for a long
的东西，我困惑了很长一段
time and I learned a lot of this from
时间，我学到了很多 ，从这个
young is that there's IDN Christianity
年轻的是有IDN基督教
that there's consciousness as such which
有这样的意识
which in some sense is eternal it
这在某种意义上是永恒的
stretches from the beginning of the time
从一开始就延伸
to the end of time but it's this
到时间的尽头，但它是这样的
abstracted notion but it lacks a certain
抽象的概念，但它缺乏一定的
kind of reality because it's not
因为不是这样的现实
instantiated somewhere not it's not
实例化某处不是
instantiated in a specific time and
在特定的时间和实例化
place in history and so the idea of the
历史地位和的这样的想法
Sun that the third part of the Trinity
孙三位一体 的第三部分
or one of the three parts of the Trinity
或三位一体的三个部分之一
is the notion that tradition and
是传统和现代的概念
consciousness as such also has to be
意识本身也必须 是
embedded in history in a particular time
在特定的时间内嵌入历史
in place and so there's the archetypal
在原地，所以有原型
embeddedness and that would be the
嵌入性，这将是
Incarnation and that's the perfect man
化身，这是完美的人
right who accepts his mortality and acts
谁接受他的死亡和行为
in a virtuous manner but it's in a it's
在一个良性的方式，但它是在它的
a it's the archetypal story of every
这是每个人的原型故事
individual as well and you know there's
个人以及你知道那里
a very strong strain in Christianity I
基督教I中的一个非常强大的压力
would say this is more pronounced in
会说这更明显
Orthodox Christianity that the that the
东正教基督教认为的那个
purpose of that the proper path of life
那是适当的生活道路的目的
is to take the tradition let's say and
是采取传统让我们说和
the spirit that's associated with
与之相关的精神
consciousness as such and to act it out
这样的意识和行动
in your life in your own personal life
在自己的个人生活中 你的生活
in a manner that's analogous to the
的方式，这类似于
manner in which Christ acted out in his
以何种方式基督在担任了他
life and what that means in part is the
生活，这意味着什么
acceptance of the tragic preconditions
接受悲剧的先决条件
of existence and so that's partly
的存在，这是一部分
betrayal right betrayal by friends and
背叛被朋友和背叛的背叛
by family and by the state and it's
由家庭和国家和它的
partly punishment for our sins that you
部分惩罚我们的罪，你
did not commit as well as the ones you
没有和你一样好
did commit and sometimes that's just a
确实承诺，有时这只是一个
relief but you know the arbitrary nature
救济， 但你知道任意性质
of justice and also the fact of finitude
正义和有限的事实
and the notion is is that your duty
而这个概念就是你的职责
let's say and the way to set things
让我们说，设置事物的方式
right in the cosmos is to accept that as
在宇宙中正是接受那样的
a necessary precondition for being and
作为一个必要的先决条件
to act virtuously despite that and
尽管以合乎道德行事，
that's a very very powerful idea as far
这是一个非常非常强大的主意，因为远
as I'm concerned and I'm also you know
就我而言，我也是你知道的
the world is a weird place and I've seen
这个世界是一个奇怪的地方，我见过
some very strange things in my life and
一些非常奇怪的事情在我的生活中
one of the things that I've seen is that
我见过的其中一件事是
you know I've dealt with some people who
你知道我处理过一些谁
are very let's say that they weren't on
非常让我们说他们不在
a good path let's put it that way and
一个很好的路径，让我们把这种方式和
one of the things that was really
其中一件事是真的
interesting about being around people
有关身边的人很有趣
like that it was like almost like they
这样说，这是几乎像他们一样
were surrounded by a gravitational field
由引力场被包围
of sorts I'm speaking metaphorically
各种各样的我来说比喻
obviously and their worldview was so
显然他们的世界观是如此
warped and twisted that if you came
如果你来了，扭曲和扭曲
within contact of them you all of a
在他们联系你们所有的人
sudden started to play a part in their
突然开始发挥他们的一部分
drama and it was almost inevitable they
戏剧，这几乎是不可避免的
would maneuver and manipulate and
会操纵和操纵和
interpret in a way that made you into
以一种让你进入的方式来解释
the villain in their story no matter
小人在他们的故事中无论如何
what it was that you wanted to do and
这是什么，你想要做的和
unless you've encountered something like
除非你遇到类似的东西
that and many of you probably have you
那个和你们许多人可能都有你
don't know how powerful a pole that is
不知道这杆是多么强大
and so it's certainly possible that
所以这当然是可能的
someone can act in a like like like a
有人能在像像像
gravitational odd object and bend things
引力奇怪的物体和弯曲的东西
around them to fit their narrative
以适应他们的叙述
they're unhappy and tragic narratives
他们不快乐和悲惨的叙述
but I've seen the officer - you know
但我见过那个官员 -你知道
we're people who were aiming upward with
我们是那些一直向上瞄准的人
the best of their ability and because of
最好的能力和正因为
that they had a positive effect on the
他们有 对 有积极作用
people around them and and that that
他们周围，和人们
that that and that ordered things around
那和那个命令周围的东西
them in profound ways and I think it's
他们在深刻的方式，我认为是
an open question
一个开放的问题
the degree to which the cosmos would
在何种程度上的宇宙会
order itself around you properly if you
如果你愿意的话，可以在你周围定点
got yourself together as much as you
让自己和你一样多
could get yourself together like I mean
可以像我的意思一样让自己在一起
we know that things can go very very
我们知道事情会变得非常非常
badly wrong if you if you do things very
如果你真的做得很好，那你就错了
badly wrong there's no doubt about that
毫无疑问，这是毫无疑问的
but the converse is also true if you
但是如果你的话也是相反的
start to sort yourself out properly and
开始给自己适当的梳理和
then you have a beneficial effect on
那么你有一个有利的影响
your family first of all that's going to
首先你要做的就是你的家人
echo down the generations but it also
回声的世代，但它也
spreads out into the community and we
传播到社区和我们
are networked together you know we're
联网在一起，你知道我们是
not lit we're not associated linearly we
没有点亮我们没有线性关联
all affect each other and so it's an
都相互影响，所以它是一个
open question the degree to which acting
开放问题的行为程度
out the notion of the notion that being
理解存在这个概念的概念
is good and the notion that you can
很好，你可以做到这一点
accept its limitations and that you
接受它的局限性和你
should still strive for virtue it's it's
应该继续为美德而努力
an open question how profound effect
一个开放的问题有多深远的影响
that would have on the structure of
这将在结构上
reality if you really chose to act it
现实，如果你真的选择采取行动
out and I've seen things as I said in my
我已经看到了一些事情，正如我在我的讲话中所说的
life that indicate that I do believe
表明我相信的生活
there's a metaphysical element to life
生活中有一种形而上的元素
as well as the rational practical
以及理性的实践
element and I think there are times when
元素，我认为有时候
those two things come together and I've
这两件事情是一起来的，我也是
seen that happen and so I don't think we
看到这种情况发生，所以我不认为我们
know the limits of virtue I don't think
知道我不认为的美德的极限
we know what true virtue could bring
我们知道真正的美德会带来什么
about if we if we aimed at it carefully
关于我们如果我们仔细地瞄准它
and practically and so the notion that
实际上是这样的概念
there's something divine about the
有一些神圣的事情
individual who accepts the conditions of
接受条件的个人
existence and still strives for the good
存在并仍然追求良好
I think that that's a idea that's very
我认为这是一个非常好的想法
much worth paying attention to and I
值得我关注的和我
think the fact that people have
想想人们有这个事实
considered that idea for at least 2,000
认为这个想法至少有2000
years quite seriously is also an
年相当认真也是
indication that there's there's at least
表明至少存在这种情况
something to be thought about with in
需要考虑的事情
relationship to that so that's kind of
与此有关系，这是一种
the trinitarian idea same idea there and
三位一体的想法在那里和
you see this is it's interesting too
你看这是很有趣的太
because you have here you have God the
因为你在这里有你的上帝
Father essentially who's coming out of
父亲本质上是谁出来的
this strange you see this isn't the sky
这个奇怪的你看到这不是天空
exactly and you see this very often in
准确，你经常在看到这
these old pictures it's not exactly the
这些老照片它不完全是
sky whatever the heaven was that that
无论天堂是那样的天空
the people believed in it's something
人们相信它是某种东西
that's it's like the sky opens and
这就像天空开启和
there's a dimension beyond the sky it's
有一个超出天空的维度
something like that and I want to show
类似的东西， 我想展示
you this too just to show you that this
你这个也只是为了告诉你这个
isn't only a Western conception you know
不仅是你知道的西方观念
when it has something to do with mystic
当有事情做与神秘
experience because there's there's a bar
经验，因为有一个酒吧
to satisfy it kind of looks like he has
以满足它看起来像他一样
a hat but that's not a hat that's a
一顶帽子， 但那不是一顶帽子
whole bunch of bodhisattva's going back
菩萨的一大堆回事回
to Eternity right and this hole in the
永恒的权利和这个洞
sky here is like a hole into time and
这里的天空就像一个洞口进入时间和
these things are recurring across time
这些事情在不断发生
it's the eternal recurrence of this of
这是永恒的重演
this redemptive archetype and the sky
这个救赎的原型和天空
opens up and and you can see that thing
打开并且你可以看到那个东西
recurring and recurring and recurring
经常性和循环性以及循环性
same ideas basically that's the blue
基本上同样的想法是蓝色的
Buddha who's a healing who's a healing
佛是一个愈合的治疗者
entity sitting in a mandala which is
实体坐在曼荼罗是
like a representation of paradise and
像天堂的表示和
it's the same idea it's like reality
它就像现实一样
opens up and reveals this image of
打开并揭示这个形象
perfection and so it's a well it's a
完美，所以这是一个很好的
universal conception and and well I
普遍的概念和和我一样
think it's a representation of the
认为这是一个表示
possibility of the metaphysical and the
形而上的和 可能性 的
physical coming together and in some
身体在一起，在一些
sort of in some sort of communication
某种交流方式
it's something like that anyways and I
反正和我一样
mean you have to remember that there's
意味着你必须记住那里
absolutely no doubt that people have
毫无疑问，人们有
metaphysical and religious experiences
形而上学和宗教经验
that's an absolute fact you can induce
这是你可以引发的绝对事实
them chemically you can deduce them
他们化学可以推断出它们
electrochemically lots of people who
电化学很多人谁
have epilepsy have epileptic prodromus
有癫痫有癫痫前驱
that are associated with divine
与神性有关
enlightenment so does the S key for
启蒙运动也是S的关键所在
example he had he had epilepsy and that
例如他有他有癫痫症和那个
was really I think one of the things
我真的认为是其中一件事情
that made him a great author because and
这使他成为伟大的作家，因为和
Dostoyevsky would have this feeling that
陀思妥耶夫斯基会有这种感觉，
he was going to have an epileptic
他将有一个癫痫
seizure and he said that the feeling for
扣押和他说的感觉
him was that the world was opening up
他是这个世界正在开拓
and he was becoming more and more and
他变得越来越多
more enlightened and he was just on the
更开明，他只是在上
verge of grasping the essence of
攫取精华的边缘
existence and then he'd have an
然后他会有一个
epileptic seizure and for the subjective
癫痫发作和主观
feeling was that that much knowledge was
感觉是，很多知识是
just too much for him to bear well you
对他来说太好了，以至于无法忍受你
know you can say well that was a
知道你可以说这是一个
neurological abnormality and fine you
神经异常和罚款
know but God he was Dostoyevsky you know
知道，但上帝他是陀斯妥耶夫斯基你知道
and so you can't just brush that off so
所以你不能只是这样擦掉它
yeah well so that's the Trinitarian idea
是的，所以这是三位一体的想法
fundamentally and if this notion here is
从根本上，如果这个概念是在这里
the notion that well the crosses crosses
十字架穿越的概念
a funny thing because the cross marks
一个有趣的事情，因为十字标记
the center you know and it's an X and
你知道的中心，它是一个X和
the X is the center of the world like
X是世界的中心
the X that the Cathedral is and it's the
大教堂所在的X，它就是这样
center of the world it's where you are
世界的中心，它就是你所在的地方
because as a consciousness you're the
因为你是一个意识
center of the world and that center of
世界的中心和该中心
the world is a place of betray
世界是一个背叛的地方
no and suffering in limitation that's
没有和受到限制
that's exactly what it is and the
这正是它和现在的情况
question is well given that and given
问题很好给予和给予
the fact that you know it what the hell
事实上你知道它到底是什么
are you supposed to do about it and what
你应该做些什么？
that represents
代表
I believe that's coil with that
我相信那是线圈
representation implies is that you're
表示意味着你是
supposed to voluntarily accept that and
应该自愿接受和
then move forward um well in good faith
然后善意地向前移动
and with courage that's the notion and
勇气就是这个概念和
that you're supported you're supported
你受到支持， 你受到支持
by your tradition and that's why you
根据你的传统，这就是你的原因
need your tradition to that's why you
需要你的传统，这就是你的原因
need to be embedded in your tradition
需要融入你的传统
because without that without the support
因为如果没有这种支持的话
let's say of your father and I mean that
让我们来谈谈你的父亲，我的意思是说
both practically and metaphysically
实际上和形而上
without that behind you without the
没有这样的背后你没有
knowledge of you as a both a biological
认识你既是一种生物
and the cultural creature without that
没有这个的文化生物
depth of knowledge you can't hey you
你不能嘿嘿的知识深度
don't have the courage to do it because
没有勇气去做，因为
you don't know what you are what you
你不知道你是什么
could be and so without that because
可能是这样，没有这个，因为
you're a historical creature you know
你是一个你认识的历史动物
what students ask me sometimes why study
学生有时问我为什么学习
history it's like well because history
历史就像历史一样
is about you that's why it's like
是关于你的，这就是它的原因
history tells you who you are you can't
历史告诉你，你是谁你不能
tell who you are because you only live a
告诉你是谁，因为你只活一个
little while how the hell can you figure
一会儿，你怎么能想到
out who you are so you need all this
你是谁，所以你需要这一切
collected wisdom and all this dream like
收集的智慧和所有这些梦想
information and all this mythology and
信息和所有这些神话和
all this narrative to inform you about
所有这些叙述都会告诉你
what you are beyond what you see of
你超出了你所看到的
yourself and you know you're pummeled
你自己，你知道你被殴打
down and people picked on you and
下来，人们选择你和你
there's 50 things about you that are
有关于你的 50 件事是
horrible and you know you've got a
可怕的，你知道你有一个
self-esteem problem you're sort of
你有点自尊心问题
hunched over and you've got all these
弯腰，你已经拥有了所有这些
problems you know and so it's not easy
你知道的问题，所以这并不容易
to see let's say the divinity that lurks
看看我们说潜伏的神性
behind that and unless you're aware of
背后的，除非你是知道的
the heroic stories of the past and the
过去和未来的英雄故事
metaphysics of consciousness let's say I
意识的形而上学让我们说我
don't think that you can have the
不要以为你可以拥有
courage to regard yourself as the sort
有勇气把自己当成那种
of creature that can stand up underneath
能站起来的生物
that intense existential burden and move
这种激烈的存在负担和举动
forward in encourage and grace and of
在鼓励和恩典中前进
course that's part of the reason that
当然这是这个原因的一部分
I'm talking about these biblical stories
我正在谈论这些圣经故事
and it's nine-thirty so we're going to
和它的九点半，所以我们打算
have to stop
不得不停下来
[Applause]
[掌声]
[Music]
[音乐]
okay so we're going to stop exactly at
好的，所以我们要停下来
10:00 tonight because that that's the
今晚10:00，因为那是那个
deal with the theater people and so and
处理剧院的人等等
besides I'll be out of anything
除了我什么都没有了
intelligent to say by that point
聪明地说，这一点
certainly so while it needs to go
当然，它需要去
through one story so that was good
通过一个故事，这是很好的
[Applause]
[掌声]
[Music]
[音乐]
okay let's give everyone like to you
好吧，让我们给大家喜欢你
know just a few seconds to settle down
只需几秒钟就可以安顿下来
and and everyone who wants to leave can
并和大家谁愿意请假
leave so thank you for all for coming by
请离开，谢谢你的光临
the way I'm constantly amazed at this
顺便我在这个不断惊讶
you know everybody comes and listens to
你知道大家都来了， 听
this because you know it's just well
这是因为你知道这很好
strange let's put it that way so so far
奇怪，让我们把这种方式，使迄今
it's been fun though so that's good okay
这很好玩，虽然这样很好
let's go I hope that works hi dr.
让我们走吧我希望工程嗨博士。
Pearson I was a raised Catholic and
皮尔逊，我是一个天主教徒和
anytime there was a bit of a an inherent
任何时候都有一种固有的
contradiction let's call it in the
我们把它称之为矛盾
document to the Bible it would be
这是圣经的文件
referred to as a mystery and there's one
被称为一个谜，有一个
mystery I've always kind of wondered
我一直怀疑的神秘之处
about and it's very important to Genesis
关于它，这对Genesis来说非常重要
how do you how do you deal with a
你怎么处理一个
perfect God or the conception of a
完美的神或的概念
perfect God who by nature is incapable
完美的神自然谁是无能
of an imperfect design sorry are
一个不完美的设计见谅。
incapable of a perfect design so what I
不能完美设计，使我
mean by that is many religions present
由意思是许多宗教存在
for example good and evil as separate
例如善与恶分开
deities that pre-existed simultaneously
同时存在的神祗
what's interesting though Christianity
基督教有趣的是什么
is that Lucifer the embodiment of evil
是路西法邪恶的体现
in the Christian religion is an
在基督教是一个
outgrowth of God and is sometimes Milton
上帝的产物，有时是米尔顿
for example presents him as a rebel
举例来说他是一个叛逆者
against his interpretation of God's
反对他对上帝的解释
tyranny right another example you know
暴政吧另一个例子你知道
we had didn't touch on even today but in
我们甚至在今天也没有触及， 但在
Paradise a supposedly perfect Garden a
天堂是一个理想的完美花园
perfect design is infiltrated again by
完美的设计再次被渗透
that evil outgrowth of a so-called
那 所谓的 邪恶产物
perfect God so from a psychological
从心理上完善上帝
perspective do you think there's a
你认为有一个视角
significance to this presentation of
对此介绍的意义
perfection yet the contradictory flaws
完美还有矛盾的缺陷
that are sort of naturally part of that
这是自然而然的一部分
perfection quote-unquote oh so good
完美报价 - 引用非常好
that's a good simple question we're
这是一个很好的简单问题
starting good see young Carl young he
开始看好年轻的卡尔年轻的他
was kind of manichaean in his approach
在他的做法样的摩尼教
and he tended towards thinking that evil
他倾向于认为邪恶
in some sense was a separate entity you
在某种意义上是你的独立实体
know and I thought about that for a long
知道，我想了很久
time because there's a potency about
时间，因为有一个有力的
evil that just can't be brushed
邪恶，不能被掠过
way and I mean I mean this most
方式，我的意思是我的意思是最
practically as I've said for people in
实际上就像我为人们所说的那样
my clinical practice I've dealt with
我处理过的临床实践
many people who are touched by
很多人被感动
malevolence and there's no other way of
恶意， 并没有其他办法
stating it properly and this happens a
正确地说出来，发生这种情况
lot to people who have post-traumatic
很多人有创伤后
stress disorder like they encountered
像他们遇到的压力症
someone that wanted to hurt them for the
有人想为他们伤害他们
sake of hurting them you know it wasn't
为了伤害他们，你知道它不是
some misunderstanding you can forget
一些误解你可以忘记
about that it wasn't that at all and so
关于那根本不是那样的
to to deny the reality of evil in some
去否认一些邪恶的现实
sense I think is the ultimate in naivety
感觉我认为是天真的终极
even though it's a word that you won't
即使这是一个你不会的词
hear used for example very often in
听到很多时候都用在例如
universities anymore but that I just
大学了，但我只是
thought just I just can't understand
我以为我无法理解
that at all but but I thought about that
除了但我想过这个之外
a lot and and so I'm going to kind of
了很多，所以我要那种
answer that question by hitting it
通过点击来回答这个问题
scattershot
漫无
the first thing is is that there's an
的第一件事就是是 ，有一个
idea and that this happens in Milton
想法和这发生在米尔顿
this cut that comes across in Milton
这在米尔顿遇到的切割
that distance from God is hell right
那距离上帝的距离是对的
that hell doesn't actually have any I
这个地狱实际上并没有任何我
know it's ambivalent in Milton but but
知道它在米尔顿是矛盾的，但是
the fundamental claim seems to be that
根本的主张似乎是这样的
the farther you get from God the more
你从上帝那里得到的越远
it's hell and then there's another idea
它是地狱，然后还有另一个想法
that Milton's Satan who's Lucifer the
米尔顿的撒旦是路西法的
bringer of light right he's God's
光的使者权利他是上帝的
highest angel gone most wrong and I kind
最高的天使走错了，我善良
of think about him as the spirit of
把他当作精神来思考
rationality of intelligence it's not
它不是智力的合理性
because I'm not an admirer of
因为我不是的崇拜者
intelligence because hurray for
因为智力的欢呼
intelligence but one of the things that
智力，但其中的一件事情
that Milton seemed to cotton onto before
米尔顿似乎之前已经穿上了
the rise of modern totalitarian States
现代极权国家的崛起
was that intellect has the capacity to
是智力有能力
fall in love with its own creations and
爱上它自己的创作和
to elevate them to the highest place
把他们提升到最高的地方
which is basically a totalitarian claim
这基本上是一个极权主张
it's like what I know is everything that
这就像我所知道的一切
needs to be known and if it was only
需要知道，如果只是
manifest in the world the world would
在世界上表现出来
become a utopia and I also think that
成为一个乌托邦，我也这么认为
we'll talk about this next week I also
我们也会在下周再谈这个问题
think that that's the core idea behind
认为这是背后的核心理念
the Tower of Babel remember the Tower of
巴别塔记得塔的塔
Babel is raised by human beings so that
巴别塔是由人类，使凸起
the pinnacle will hit heaven and so it's
巅峰将击中天堂，所以它是
the idea that we can build a structure
我们可以建立一个结构的想法
that makes the transcendent unnecessary
这使得超越是不必要的
and so ok so there's those two things
所以好的，这是两件事
then there's there's an idea of free
那么有一个免费的想法
will that's associated with it too and
那也是与它相关联的
it seems to me that in order for there
在我看来，为了那里
to be good there has to be evil and so I
要好，必须有邪恶，所以我
I think the answer is something like
我认为答案是类似的
this is that in order for there to be
这是为了让那里是
being there has to be limitation in
在那里必须有限制
order for their good to be good there
为了他们的好在那里好
has to be the possibility of evil I
必须是邪恶的可能性我
think the right path is to exist such
认为正确的道路是存在这样的
that the possibility of evil remains
邪恶的可能性依然存在
open but that you choose the good and I
开放， 但你选择好，我
don't think that evil per se is built
不要以为恶本身是建
into the structure of the world I do
进入 世界我做 的结构
think that that's human I think that
认为那是我认为的人
evil is human and I think it's
邪恶是人类， 我认为它是
understandable
可理解
I did a lecture that's online about the
我做了一个关于网络的讲座
distinction between evil and tragedy and
罪恶和悲剧之间的区别
tragedy seems to be built into the
悲剧似乎被建成了
structure of the world and perhaps you
世界的结构 ，或许你
can blame God for that I mean it doesn't
可以责怪上帝，因为我的意思是没有
seem to me that it's your fault that
在我看来，这是你的错
there earthquakes for example but but it
例如有地震，但只有它
is all not obvious to me either that
这对我来说都不明显
it's tragedy that takes the spirit out
这是一个让精神出来的悲剧
of people I think that human beings are
的人我认为人类是
actually equipped to deal with tragedy
实际上装备处理悲剧
but we're not equipped to deal with
但我们没有装备处理
malevolence that destroys people and so
恶意破坏人们等等
I think that I think that metaphysically
我认为， 我认为这是形而上的
speaking the world is structured so that
说世界的结构是这样的
people have a choice between good and
人们有好的选择和选择
evil and that so then the next question
邪恶和那么下一个问题
is why do we have a choice and that
这就是为什么我们有选择的原因
that's where my knowledge runs out I
这就是我的知识用完了我
don't I don't like the alchemists for
我不是不喜欢炼金术士
example speculated that and then the
示例推测， 然后
Orthodox Christians also followed this
东正教徒也跟着这个
line of reasoning is that human beings
推理线是人类
in some sense are furthering creation by
在某种意义上正在进一步创造
our actions and by our choices and I
我们的行为以及我们的选择和我
think there's something to that it's
觉得有些事情是这样的
like it's like creation is unfinished in
喜欢它像创作是在未完成
some sense and that we're participating
有些意义， 我们正在参与
in in moving it in whatever direction we
在向我们的方向移动它
it is that we want to move it and part
这是我们想要移动它的一部分
of that is that we have freewill and
那是我们有自由意志和
part of that is that we have the choice
其中一部分是我们有选择
between good and evil and that's also
正邪之间说的也是
it's all associated with with the
这一切都与
significance maybe the cosmic
意义也许是宇宙
significance of our lives and I blood
我们的生命意义和我的血液
that strikes me as plausible and and I
这让我觉得似乎合情合理，而我
think that the weight of responsibility
认为责任的重要
that people feel existentially is an
人们觉得存在是一个
indication of that so that's about the
这是关于这个的指示
best I could do with that so and it
最好的，我可以用这个和那个做
seems the way you're describing it it's
似乎是你描述它的方式
built into at least the text that you
至少内置于您的文本中
presented because one of the other
因为其中一个而出现
things I had noticed was God
我注意到的是上帝
consistently describes creation as good
始终如一地描述创作
right well rates light it's good he
好的利率点亮它是很好的
creates dark it's good
创造黑暗它是好的
laughter he creates things in ounces
他用盎司创造了笑声
that he creates man and woman and
他创造了男人和女人
announces that they have dominion ya
宣布他们已经统治了你
over those things and can use them yeah
在那些事情上，可以使用它们
and it might be something lost the
这可能是失去了一些东西
translation but that is described as
翻译， 但被描述为
very good as soon as that Dominion is
非常好，只要这个统治是
brought into it yes yeah it might speak
带入它是的，它可能会说话
to that notion of furthering yeah great
到那个进一步的想法是伟大的
and here's something interesting too and
这里还有一些有趣的事情
we'll develop this a lot is that you see
我们会开发这很多是你看到的
when Adam and Eve eat the fruit
当亚当和夏娃吃水果时
the snake gives them the fruit the first
蛇首先给了他们果子
thing that happens is their eyes are
发生的事情是他们的眼睛
opened okay and to me that means that
开好，对我那 意味着
while they've woken up right there's
而他们已经醒了正确的有
been an increment in their consciousness
他们的意识增加了
and the next thing that happens is that
接下来发生的事情就是这样
they recognize that they're naked okay
他们认识到他们裸体没事
and to recognize that you're naked is to
并认识到你是裸体的
recognize that you're vulnerable and
承认你是脆弱的
human beings are strange creatures it
人类是奇怪的生物
because most animals are like this and
因为大多数动物都是这样的
they're protected but not us like our
他们受到保护， 但不是我们喜欢我们的
most vulnerable parts are displayed for
显示最脆弱的部分
harm and for everyone to observe right
伤害和让大家观察的权利
so we've got that sort of bipedal
所以我们有这种双足
self-consciousness built into us but
建立在我们身上的自我意识
what's really interesting is that when
什么是真正有趣的是，当
Adam and Eve realized that they're naked
亚当和夏娃意识到自己是裸体的
it's the same moment that they know the
这是他们知道的同一时刻
difference between good and evil and
正邪 之间的区别
that our God that just that just I just
我们的上帝，只是我只是
ground away on that for years trust so
多年来一直信任这一点
what the hell's what's going on here
这到底是怎么回事？
what's the relationship between
之间有什么关系
consciousness knowledge of nakedness and
意识知识的裸体和意识
the knowledge of good and evil and then
善恶之知
I think I think I figured it out I think
我想， 我想我想通了，我认为
I think it was that you see when you
我认为这是你看到你的时候
know that you're vulnerable and they
知道你是脆弱的，他们
also develop knowledge of death right so
还开发了死亡的知识权利，使
there's deep knowledge of vulnerability
对漏洞有深刻的了解
and they get embarrassed about that they
他们对此感到尴尬
cover themselves up right so that's
把自己掩盖起来就是了
culture so it's a very profound shock
所以这是一个非常深刻的冲击
for them to recognize that they're naked
让他们认识到自己是裸体的
it even makes Adam hide from God many
它甚至使亚当躲避上帝许多
developed the knowledge of good and evil
发展了善与恶的知识
well I think it's because you see human
以及我认为这是因为你看到了人类
beings have this peculiar capacity that
众生有这种奇特的能力
no other creature has which is I know
没有其他生物拥有我所知道的
how I can be hurt because I'm aware of
我知道怎么会受到伤害
my own limitations painfully aware and
我自己的局限性痛苦地意识到和
now because I know how I can be hurt I
现在，因为我知道我怎么可以伤害我
know how you can be hurt and I can take
知道你会受到怎样的伤害，我可以接受
advantage of that and that's I think how
这一点的 优势，这就是我的想法
evil enters the world that's what it
邪恶进入了这个世界
looks like to me it's like I got this
看起来像我这就像我得到这个
expansion of knowledge it says in
它扩大了它所说的知识
Genesis that that that gives people
创世纪那给人的那个
another attribute of divinity knowing
神性知识的另一个属性
the difference between good and evil it
善与恶的区别呢
has nothing to do with animals and
与动物无关
nothing to do with Adam and Eve prior to
没有事先跟亚当和夏娃
having your eyes open but that the
睁大你的眼睛，但那个
cosmos switches when that self
当宇宙自我切换时
consciousness manifests itself and
意识体现自己
that's when the possibility of evil
那是邪恶的可能性
enters the world it's something like
进入这个世界就像是一样
that and that's also echoed by the
这和那也是一致的
intimate relationship between the snake
蛇之间的亲密关系
in the Garden of Eden and Satan which is
在伊甸园和撒旦这是
we're going to because that's what
我们会去那，因为那是
that's a very strange associations like
这是一个非常奇怪的协会
this snake also becomes the adversary of
这条蛇也成为了对手
being and I think that's I'll jump very
正在和我认为这是我会跳得非常
quickly into that but I think that's
很快进入，但我认为这是
because you know there's the snake that
因为你知道有蛇是
bites you in the jungle and then there's
在丛林中咬你，然后就是了
the snake that lives in your enemy and
那条生活在你的敌人之中的蛇
then there's the snake that lives in
再有就是， 生活在蛇
your family if you if you banish the
你的家人，如果你，如果你驱逐
enemy to the Netherlands and then
敌人到荷兰然后
there's the snake that lives in you if
如果你的蛇存在于你身上
you remove yourself from your family and
你将你自己从家庭 中解救出来
that snake that's in you right that's
那条蛇就在你的右边
that's a that's a psychological
那是一种心理
phenomena that's equivalent to
现象相当于
transcendent evil itself the thing that
超越邪恶本身的东西
inhabits every single person that's why
居住每一个人，这就是为什么
there's that association between the
那里有那种关联
snake and Satan and that's why I think
蛇和撒旦，这就是我想的原因
that people have this it's associated
人们有这个关联
with their knowledge of ulnar ability
与他们的尺寸能力的知识
that gives us this constant capacity for
这给了我们这个恒定的容量
for evil being imagine if your medieval
因为邪恶正在想象你的中世纪
torturer
施刑
you know I mean people don't generally
你知道我的意思是人们通常不会
imagine that sort of thing but but but
想象那种事情，但但是
people were maybe evil torturers and
人们可能是邪恶的折磨人和
they were very good at what they did and
他们非常善于处理他们所做的事情
the only way that you could be a
唯一的办法，你可能是一个
torturers to know what would hurt you
酷刑者知道什么会伤害你
right and so you exploit your own
正确的，所以你利用你自己的
vulnerable exploit the knowledge of your
脆弱的利用你的知识
own vulnerability to bring pain into the
自己的脆弱带来的痛苦
world and I don't think that you can lay
世界，我不认为你可以躺下
that precisely at God's feet now people
那正是在上帝脚下现在的人们
have been arguing about that for a very
一直在争论这个问题
long time but but my question the
很长一段时间，但但我的问题
question for me that arose from that is
对我来说这个问题是由此产生的
all right fine like tragedy you can lay
一切都好， 就像你可以躺下的悲剧
that at God's feet well if we didn't
如果我们不这样做，那么在上帝的脚下
bring additional evil into the world
给这个世界带来更多的罪恶
could we tolerate the tragedy of being
我们能容忍存在的悲剧吗？
without becoming corrupt and I think
没有变成腐败，我想
generally the answer to that is yes
一般来说，答案是肯定的
because I've seen people react quite
因为我看到人们的反应很强烈
heroically to the arbitrary burdens of
英勇地向任意负担
their life but malevolence may I'm not
他们的生活，但恶意可能我不是
late that lays them low it lays them low
迟到，使他们低，它使他们低
and it seems to be to be nothing but a
它似乎只是一个
destructive force and I do believe as
破坏力，我相信是
well and I think you see this in the
好吧，我想你看到了
Cain and Abel story that the root of
该隐和阿贝尔的故事的根源
malevolence is the
恶意是
desire for revenge against God for for
渴望对神的复仇 为
creation itself and I mean I've read
创作本身，我的意思是我读过
terrible things written by terrible
可怕的事情写得很糟糕
people trying to get to the bottom of
人们试图去 底部
things and I mentioned to call them
事情和我提到要打电话给他们
bunny killers for example and it's clear
兔子杀手，例如，很明显
all you have to do is go read what they
你所要做的就是去读他们的东西
wrote what they were doing was taking
写了他们正在做的事情
revenge against God they knew that if it
报复上帝他们知道如果它
wasn't unconscious that they've been
并不是无意识的，他们一直在
dwelling on this for months plotting
对此进行几个月的绘图
their revenge and it was revenge against
他们的报复，这是报复
being itself for the crime of being so
本身就是这样的罪行
thank you hi doctor you'd said the when
谢谢你嗨医生你会说什么时候
God saw that it was good you read that
上帝看见你看，这是好的
as potentially well I might be better
作为潜在的好，我可能会更好
than nothing
没什么
and the story in Genesis it's bracketed
和创世纪中的故事它被括起来
by days which aren't necessarily literal
通过不一定是字面的日子
days young the original word you know
天你年轻的原始单词你知道
but it's also bracketed by and he saw it
但它也被括起来，他看到了它
was good you know at the end of the day
在一天结束的时候你是很了解的
so my question is is there something
所以我的问题是有什么
more profoundly happening there between
其中更深刻的发生
this profundity of speaking into
这种深入的说话
existence the way you know the start is
存在你知道开始的方式
to this observation the seeing that it's
看到这是这个观察
good and are we is God modeling
好，我们是神的造型
consciousness is there a little more
意识是有一点
there for us to grapple with okay so so
在那里我们可以好好地对付
more for us to grapple with in what way
更让我们以何种方式来对付
in the sense that we have this amazing
在这个意义上，我们有这个惊人的
this insight of speaking things forth
这种说话事物的洞察力
but you'd also comment on consciousness
但你也会评论意识
as until something's observed or until
直到某事物被观察到或直到
so there until it's seen so when God
所以在那里，直到神的时候看到
sees that that creation was good is
看到那个创作是好的
there there's kind of this bracketing
那里有一种包围
between the bringing forth through the
通过之间的带来
spoke we you know through the word
我们通过这个词发言
through Jesus okay okay that's good I
通过耶稣好吧好吧，这是好的我
see what you mean okay well I think I
看你的意思好吧我想我
think what that is is that I think okay
想想那是我认为没关系的
so it's perfectly reasonable from an
所以它从一个完全合理的
archetypal and psychological perspective
原型和心理学视角
to consider the idea of the word
考虑这个词的想法
equivalent to the spoken truth
相当于说出的真相
I mean price makes that claim in the New
我的意思是价格在新的版本中有这样的要求
Testament that he's the truth right
遗嘱他说的是对的
and embodied and so then you can
并体现，然后你可以
logically you can derive from that the
在逻辑上，你可以从该 派生
idea that if things are spoken into
想法，如果事情被说成
being through truth then they're good
通过真相，然后他们很好
and so yeah I think that that
所以是的，我认为那是
association exists and I think that
协会存在，我认为
that's well I also think that that's
这很好，我也认为这是
that's that in some sense the deepest
那在某种意义上就是最深的
claim of faith I believe that because I
我相信，因为我
think that I think you have to make a
认为我认为你必须做出一个
decision in your life as far as I can
尽我所能决定你的生活
tell and I think Kierkegaard knew this
告诉我 ， 我认为克尔凯郭尔知道这一点
more clearly than anyone else I've ever
更比谁都清楚，我曾经
read and that is that if being is good
阅读，那就是如果是好的
then an honest relationship with being
然后与存在的诚实关系
also has to be good and then if you have
也必须是好的，然后如果你有
an honest relationship with being then
与当时的诚实关系
you're going to speak the truth and then
你要说出 真相，然后
I think what you have to decide is that
我觉得你有什么决定的是，
speaking if you speak the truth then
说话， 如果你说实话
what happens is good regardless of what
不管发生了什么是好的什么
happens and that that's that that's the
恰好那就是这样这就是
rub of faith and I think that's
摩擦的信念，我认为这是
something that Kerry could guard
克里可以保护的东西
wrestled with you know and I mean I'm
与你搏斗知道，我的意思是我
trying to think if I can provide an
试着想如果我能提供一个
example about about that and anything
关于这个和任何事情的例子
and easily and quickly well I guess it's
并且很容易，很快，我猜是这样
partly because it's partly because you
部分原因是部分原因在于你
can live your life two ways you can you
可以以两种方式过你的生活，你可以
can you can use your language to
你能用你的语言吗？
manipulate you can use your language as
操纵你可以使用你的语言
a tool to get what you want but the
一个工具来获得你想要的东西，但是
problem with that is that that assumes
问题就在于这个假设
that you know what you want and that
你知道你想要什么和那个
you're right and that's a problem
你是对的，这是一个问题
because there's lots of things you don't
因为有很多事情你不知道
know and if you get what you want you
知道，如果你得到你想要的东西
may find a that you didn't really want
可能会发现你并不是真的想要
it and be that you're not the person
它并且是你不是这个人
that started the journey towards that
这开始了征程实现这一
that happens a lot to people especially
这对人们来说尤其如此
when they use their language in a
当他们在a中使用他们的语言时
manipulative way and so the alternative
操纵性的方式等等
seems to be and I think this is one of
似乎是，我认为这是其中之一
the lessons for example that's laid out
例如， 这些教训已经 列出
in the movie Pinocchio which happens to
在电影匹诺曹发生
be a kind of archetypal favorite of mine
是一种矿的原型喜爱
is but part of the act of faith so let's
只是信仰行为的一部分，所以让我们来看看
say and then I wouldn't say Christian
说，然后我不会说基督教
faith necessarily I would say faith in
信仰必然会说我相信
being itself is is the decision it's
本身就是它的决定
like the decision that God is good the
像上帝是善的决定
decision is there's no better way to
决定是没有更好的办法
bring better being into being than to
带来更好的存在， 而不是
speak the truth and I do think that's
说实话，我确实认为这是事实
accurate I think that's a very wise
准确我认为这是一个非常明智的
observation I think that's echoed in
观察我认为这是相呼应的
that for
对于
story first of all the active speech and
故事首先是积极的讲话和
second the observation that the
第二，观察到的
consequence was good so yeah yeah thank
后果很好，所以耶耶谢谢
you
您
[Music]
[音乐]
good morning citizen Peterson first I
早上好公民彼得森第一我
have a bunch of questions and the one
有一堆问题和一个问题
that have them answered immediately like
让他们立即回答
you have a post on Quora in which you
你在Quora上有一篇关于你的文章
encourage all children to incur
鼓励所有的孩子出现
skateboarding injuries but but also
滑板伤害但也
stated in this post well you wrote that
在这篇文章中写道，你写的是这样的
do not try to rescue someone who does
不去救谁 做
not want to be rescued and be very
不希望被救出，并很
careful about rescuing someone who does
小心拯救谁 做
and can you reconcile this with what you
并且你能和你一致吗？
stated about transcendent morality and
陈述关于超越的道德和
the heroic impulse that I guess men are
我猜男人是英雄冲动
supposed to be born with ok ok ok so
应该是天生的好吧好吧好吧
while the skates the skateboarding
而滑板滑板
question is I wrote I have a book coming
问题是我写了一本书，我有一本书
out in 2018 called 12 rules for life and
在2018年出台了12条生命和规则
antidote to chaos and one of the
解决混乱和其中的一个
chapters in there is from that Korra
那里的章节来自科拉
posting and it's called don't bother
发布，它被称为不打扰
children when they're skateboarding and
孩子们在滑板滑板时
it's sort of associated with what I'd
这与我的想法有关
said earlier about parkour for example
比如早些时候说过关于跑酷
is that you know kids need to go out and
是，你知道孩子们需要走出去，
push themselves against danger because
推动自己抵御危险，因为
that's what life is is pushing yourself
这就是生活正在推动自己
against danger and and when you see kids
对抗危险和当你看到孩子时
doing things that are dangerous but
做 危险的事情，但是
spectacular then you kind of have a
壮观，那么你有一种
moral obligation to back the hell off
道义上的责任，以支持地狱
and let them experiment with their own
让他们尝试一下自己的
mortality because you can't keep them
死亡率，因为你无法保留它们
safe the best thing you can do is make
安全最好的事情是你能做的
them able and courageous and I would say
他们能干而勇敢，我会说
that that's a more difficult lesson
这是一个更难的教训
generally speaking for mothers to learn
一般来说为母亲学习
than for fathers to learn and that was
比父亲学习和那是
Freud's fundamental observation but it's
弗洛伊德的基本观察，但它
it's absolutely crucial and so I've seen
这绝对是至关重要的，所以我见过
kids do I mean you know you can
孩子们， 我的意思是你知道你可以
obviously be a fool on the skateboard
显然是滑板上的傻瓜
although the distinction between being a
虽然区分是一个
fool and developing yourself is not as
愚蠢和发展自己不是
clear as people might like to imagine
人们可能想象得很清楚
and and when kids are out there with no
当孩子们在外面没有
helmets and doing dangerous things it's
头盔和做危险的事情是
like there's a part of me that of course
就像我当然有一部分那样
is very worried about it but there's
非常担心，但有
another part of me that admires it very
我非常欣赏它的另一部分
much because they're practicing what
很大程度上是因为他们在练习什么
they need to practice in order to cope
他们需要练习才能应付
with the world ok so there's that now
与世界好，所以现在就是这样
the other one was risky
另一个是有风险的
and evil yeah well I got this partly
和邪恶是啊，我得到了这部分
from Carl Rogers you know because Rogers
从卡尔罗杰斯你知道，因为罗杰斯
was either clinician very famous
要么是临床医生非常有名
clinician and and he he was he was a
临床医生和他，他是他是一个
Christian missionary to begin with but
基督教传教士开始但是
he didn't end up that way but he was
他并没有以这种方式结束，但他是
very interested in the utility of
对实用性非常感兴趣
listening as a as a means of redemption
倾听作为一种救赎手段
essentially and listening by the way is
本质上和倾听的方式是
if you have someone that you know that
如果你有一个你知道的人
has a problem the best thing you can
有一个问题，你可以做的最好的事情
often do is listen to them if they're
经常做的就是听他们的，如果他们
actually trying to communicate because
实际上试图沟通，因为
people configure themselves through
人们通过自我配置
speech and most people can't think and I
演讲和大多数人无法思考和我
don't mean that in a mean way I mean the
并不意味着在一个简陋的方式，我的意思是
way they think is by talking and they
他们认为是通过谈话和他们的方式
can't talk unless they have someone to
除非有人来， 否则不能说话
talk to and it's partly because they're
谈话，这部分是因为他们
bouncing the idea off them and seeing if
反弹他们的想法，看看是否
it makes sense and seeing how the person
这是有道理的，看到这个人是如何
responds so listening is a great thing
回应如此倾听是件好事
but Rogers was also interested in the in
但罗杰斯也有意在
the preconditions for having a
有一个先决条件
redemptive relationship and that could
救赎关系， 这可能
be a therapeutic relationship or an
是一种治疗关系还是一种治疗
intimate relationship and one of the
亲密关系和其中之一
things he claimed was that unless the
他声称的事情是，除非
person was aiming upward there was
有人向上瞄准了
nothing you could do about it
你无能为力
that and that seemed to be associated
这和那似乎是相关的
with this idea of that initial choice
有了这个初步选择的想法
say between good and evil and saying
说善恶之间，说
when someone comes to therapy they've
当有人来治疗他们
already done something they've already
已经做了一些他们已经
said I have a problem conceivably I
说我可以想象我有一个问题
could fix it and I need to do something
可以修复它， 我需要做些事情
about it and then so half the work is
关于它，然后这么一半的工作
already done by the time they show up
在他们出现的时候已经完成了
because they've already said well things
因为他们已经说了好话
aren't as good as they could be and I
不如他们能和我一样好
could do something about it the question
可以为这个问题做点事情
is can you do anything about someone who
你能做任何关于某人的事吗？
isn't at that state and my observation
是不是在这个状态和我的观察
and this is Rogers observation as well
这也是罗杰斯的观察
is that you can't I think you can serve
是， 你不能，我认为你可以成为
by example but until the person has
通过例子， 但直到这个人
decided on their own that they're wrong
他们自己决定他们错了
that's why they're suffering if there's
这就是为什么他们如果有痛苦的原因
something wrong about what they're doing
他们在做什么错了
and that they want to fix it I don't I
而且他们要 修复它，我不要我
think that even trying to hammer against
认为即使试图殴打
that often makes it worse so and I know
这往往使情况变得更糟， 所以我知道
that Solzhenitsyn when he was talking
索尔仁尼琴在他说话的时候
about the communist ideologue the really
关于共产主义的意识形态真的
hardcore communist ideologue that were
铁杆共产主义者的意识形态
eaten up by the Gulag Archipelago system
由古拉格群岛系统吃掉
you know sort of devoured by their own
你知道自己被吞噬了
he saw the same thing was that until
直到他看到同样的事情
they were willing to admit that
他们愿意承认这一点
something was wrong with the manner in
什么是错用的方式
which they had construed the world that
他们已经解释了这个世界
it had resulted in their own demise
它导致了他们自己的死亡
that there was actually no way of
那实际上没有办法
communicating with them they're in kind
与他们沟通，他们是实物
of an authoritarian bubble and so so I I
一个专制泡沫等等II
don't think that so even if you orient
即使你定位，也不要这么想
yourself as an archetypal hero there's
你自己是一个原型英雄
no way you can get through that barriers
你无法通过这些障碍
well I think that that's part of the
以及我认为这是其中的一部分
issue of free will I think that I do not
免费的问题我认为我没有
think that people can learn unless they
认为人们可以学习，除非他们
admit that they're wrong
承认他们错了
there was this there's this play the
有这个有这个戏的
cocktail hour by TS Eliot and he has
鸡尾酒时间由TS艾略特和他
this woman in the play and she comes up
这个女人在剧中出现
to a psychiatrist and she says just in
对精神病学家，她说只是在
the course of casual conversation she
她随意对话的过程
says I really hope there's something
说我真的希望有什么
wrong with me and of course the
我和当然错了
psychiatrist is a bit taken aback by
精神病医生有点吃了一惊
that he says well why in the world would
他说世界上为什么会这样
you hope such a thing and she says
你希望这样的事情，她说
something like well like I'm suffering
就像我受苦一样
then things are not good for me I'm
那么事情对我来说并不好，我是
having a dreadful time of it as far as I
就我而言有一段可怕的时间
can tell there's only two possibilities
可以告诉只有两种可能性
either the world in its essence is
无论是在其本质世界
conspiring against me and I'm doomed
密谋反对我，我注定了
because what am I going to do about the
因为我要怎么处理这个问题
world like it's just built into the
世界就像它只是内置于其中
structure of reality or I'm doing
现实的结构或我在做
something wrong so I'm really hoping
有什么不对，所以我真的很希望
that I'm doing something wrong because
我做错了什么，因为
if I am then maybe I could fix it and
如果我是那么也许我可以修复它
I'd stop suffering and it's it's
我会停止痛苦，事情就是这样
something like that and see it's also I
类似的东西，看到它也是我
think that if your life isn't what it
认为如果你的生活不是这样的话
could be and you're suffering then it
可能会和你一样痛苦吧
seems to me that that should be
在我看来，这应该是
sufficient evidence that you don't know
足够的证据表明你不知道
enough and with if that isn't sufficient
足够，如果这还不够
evidence that you don't know enough then
证据显示你当时并不知情
I don't know how anyone else can provide
我不知道其他人能提供什么
you without evidence and so I'm going to
你没有证据， 所以我要去
leave it at that
离开它
this is psychological rescue not like
这不是心理救援
the rescuing someone who's drowning for
营救人谁是溺水了
example you can rescue people when
例如，你可以在什么时候救人
they're drowning even if they don't want
即使他们不想要，他们也会溺水
perfect
完善
I'll tell you something about that
我会告诉你一些事
though something interesting about that
尽管有趣的事情
and that's relevant but you know I don't
这是相关的，但你知道我不知道
know how many of you know how you rescue
知道你们中有多少人知道你是如何拯救的
someone who's drowning you do it like
淹死你的人会这样做
this right you come to them like this
这个权利你就像这样来到他们面前
and you push them away with your foot if
如果你用脚将它们推开
they're I'm telling you that's what you
他们是我告诉你这就是你
do if you're a lifeguard because if
如果你是救生员，那么请做
they're panicking and they grab you you
他们恐慌，他们抓住你
both drown and that's stupid because
既淹死又愚蠢，因为
then you both drown right and so and
那么你们都溺死了，等等
that's a really good way that's a really
这真的是一个非常好的方法
good metaphor for trying to help someone
试图帮助某人的好隐喻
- it's like when people are in real
- 就像人们真实的时候一样
trouble you know some of it's they're
麻烦你知道 它的一些 他们
confused and some of it is that their
困惑和一些是他们的
life is collapsed around them and
生活是他们周围倒塌 ，
there's some malevolence there and
那里有一些恶意
there's some desire for vengeance like
有一些像复仇一样的渴望
one dangerous mess and if you're going
一个危险的混乱，如果你要去
to wait in there unprepared the
在那里等待毫无准备
probability that they're going to take
他们将要采取的可能性
you down
你失望
compared to you elevating them is very
相比你升高他们是非常
very high you know because you don't
你知道的很高，因为你不知道
even know what your damn psychological
甚至知道你该死的心理
stability rests on you might be saying
稳定取决于你可能会说
just because you're lucky and surrounded
只是因为你很幸运并被包围
by sane people that doesn't mean that
理智的人，并不意味着这一点
you have the psychological wherewithal
你有心理上的必要
to really post someone up from the
真正地从某人发布某人
depths of the underworld especially if
特别是如果是黑社会的深度
they've also got one foot in hell so you
他们也有一脚在地狱，所以你
should bloody well be careful about
应该血淋淋地好好小心一下
doing that kind of thing it's it's
做那种事是很
hubristic to attempt it and I would you
傲慢地尝试它，我会你
know I would definitely caution people
知道我一定会提醒人们
very carefully about trying to rescue
非常小心地尝试营救
someone who doesn't want to be rescued
不想被拯救的人
it's it's very dangerous activity and it
这是非常危险的活动
can easily be counterproductive
很容易起反作用
okay so vote since 2006 I've been trying
好，所以投票自2006年以来我一直在尝试
to figure out like extract the meta the
弄清楚像提取元
way you've put it of social justice
你已经把它放在社会正义的道路上
warriors and I think I found it actually
勇士和我想我实际上找到了它
they seem to have this behavior where
他们似乎有这种行为在哪里
they just they nebulize every standard
他们只是雾化每一个标准
we have so they take a standard you have
我们有他们采取你有的标准
that has full of criteria they say what
充满了他们说什么的标准
something is is how it is like that's a
东西是怎么样，这是一个
podium but it has these criteria within
领奖台但内部有这些标准
event oh sorry
事件哦对不起
they take them they do something called
他们带他们去做一些叫做的事情
nebulization where they take something
雾化他们需要什么东西
of what and they dissolve the criteria
什么和他们解散标准
such that there is no way to say how it
这样就没办法说出来了
is so you see this now with gender where
是这样，你现在看到这与性别在哪里
someone will say their gender but
有人会说他们的性别，但是
there's no way to get logically from how
如何从逻辑上无法获得
they can be that gender like how you can
他们可以像你所能做的那样是性别
be an attack helicopter or a male or a
成为一架攻击直升机或一架男性或一架
woman or something like that
女人之类的东西
but the thing that came from this and I
但是从这和我来的东西
figured this out when I found about you
想通了这一点，当我发现你
when I learned about you is that
当我了解到你是那个
nebulization appears to be the exact
雾化似乎是确切的
opposite process of individuation
相反的个性化过程
philosophic the silikal version of into
哲学的silikal版本的成
it individual that rests on three
它依赖于三个人
premises or three core axioms which is I
处所或三个核心公理 是我
exist which is an axiom that exists in
存在这是存在于其中的公理
like an objective that you exist here
像你在这里存在的目标
and then I am which is a reiteration or
然后我就是重申或者说
reading reincarnation of I exist which
阅读转世我存在哪个
is basically you have to say I'm right
基本上你必须说我是对的
about having existed or else it just
关于存在，否则它只是
falls apart and you have ass which is
分崩离析，你有屁股是
the question begs from that well if you
这个问题 从求好，如果你
exist and you're right as what and
存在，你是正确的和什么
you're talking about God being the the
你在谈论神是那个人
metaphor of God in Genesis being the a
创世记中的上帝比喻是一个
metaphor for the creation of
隐喻的创造
consciousness and it appears that
意识和它似乎
individuation actually fits that triad
个性化实际上适合那个黑社会
because if you take adds for example and
因为如果你增加例如和
the as is a it's a predictive aspect
在AS是它的预测方面
when you try to take the subjective and
当你试图采取主观和
make it object it's you have an idea you
让它反对它是你有一个想法你
test it in reality and time is the
在现实中测试它，时间就是这样
ultimate arbiter that determines these
决定这些的最终仲裁者
things and it changes your understanding
事情和它改变你的理解
the reality it gets it lets you know God
它获得的现实可以让你认识上帝
it lets you know the objective and then
它可以让你知道目标，然后
from that point there's the subjective
从这一点有主观
which is supposed to be form from
这应该是从形式
objective reality because you've changed
客观现实，因为你已经改变了
that you know have to sacrifice your old
你知道必须牺牲你的旧时代
self the old way you saw Jordan Peterson
自我是你看到约旦彼得森的老路
of ten years ago was not who he is now
十年前是不是他现在是谁
so it gets sacrificed and at the same
所以它被牺牲，并在相同的
time you can point back to that guy that
时间你可以指出那个家伙
Jordan Peterson and say well that guy
约旦皮特森并且说那个人
was wrong and that's the scapegoating of
是错的，那是替罪羊
the Sun so the subjective aspect the I
太阳把主观方面的我
am right is the son and the holy spirit
我正确的是儿子和圣灵
which is supposed to lead you to God is
这应该引导你到上帝的地方
the ass and I don't understand the
屁股和我不明白的
relationship between that in the first
之间的关系在第一
part okay so can you just clarify that
部分没关系，所以你可以澄清一下
the social justice aspect and the
社会正义方面和社会正义
nebulization oh the social justice is
雾化哦，社会正义是
the exact opposite process of
完全相反的过程
individuation that's all it is and it
个性化，就是这一切
actually occurs that adds if you're a
实际上发生，如果你是一个增加
Tad's and you're thinking about what am
泰德，你在想什么
I you either apply individuation you try
我你要么尝试个性化
to apply cry so you try to find out what
申请哭泣，所以你试图找出什么
you are in reality or we refuse that
你在现实中我们拒绝这
paradigm and say well look I am I'm
范例，说得好看我是我
always going to be right I'm completely
总是会是对的我完全是
self-righteous and you stomp at that
自以为是，你跺脚
subjective aspect where everything
主观方面凡事
becomes subjective and you ultimately
成为主观，你最终
become relativistic and nihilistic so
成为相对论和虚无主义等等
I'm asking have you considered that the
我问你有没有考虑过这个问题
Genesis tale and the the creation myth
创世纪的故事和创造神话
and God is actually the is the process
而上帝其实就是这个过程
of individuation and the Trinity is
个性化和三位一体是
actually those three core premises the
实际上那三个核心处所
three axioms that come
三个公理来了
from that okay I haven't considered that
从那好吧我没有考虑到这一点
I mean I know that young draw drew a
我的意思是我知道年轻的画画了
parallel between the idea of the passion
并行的激情的想法
for example and the development of human
例如和人类的发展
individuality and so there's that that
个性，所以就是这样
idea is lurking inside the union notion
想法潜伏在工会理念的内部
of individuation because it has to do
个性化，因为它必须这样做
with the voluntary confrontation with
与自愿对抗
mortality and also with evil right as
死亡率也与邪恶的权利一样
two of the key elements of genuine self
两个真正的自我的关键要素
realization I haven't considered the
实现我没有考虑过
metaphorical pathway that you just
隐喻的途径，你只是
described so I can't comment on that I'd
所以我不能评论我的意见
have to think about that but I could say
必须考虑这一点，但我可以说
that one of the things that does disturb
那些 干扰的事情 之一
me about the ideological battle that's
我关于这个意识形态的斗争
going on right now and I think this is a
现在正在进行，我认为这是一个
very deep part of it and this is the
它非常深的部分，这是
part that's a battle against the logos
这是对抗标志的一部分
in in derrida's old terms right the
在德里达的旧条款正确的
fellow go centric West needs to be taken
同胞去中心西方需要被采取
down to its essence is the refusal to
到本质是拒绝
engage in precise language and I see
搞精确的语言，我明白了
that in part for example manifested in
部分例如表现在
the refusal of the people who are
这是谁的拒绝
criticizing to ever engage me in any
批评任何时候都会让我参与进来
debate they don't believe in debate and
辩论他们不相信辩论和
they don't believe in the in the in the
他们不相信在中
let's say the redemptive power of dialog
让我们说对话的救赎力量
because mostly what they believe in his
因为大部分他们相信他的
power so there's a nebulization in that
所以那里有雾化
manner there's this tendency to hide
方式有这种倾向隐藏
behind what's vague and fog like instead
在模糊和雾之后
of making things sharp and clear and
使事情变得清晰明确
crystalline and I do think that that's
结晶，我确实认为这是
well that's part of the degeneration of
以及这是堕落的一部分
a civilization as far as I'm concerned
一个文明，就我而言
so so you haven't considered that then
所以你还没有考虑那个
no it would you please I'll do my best
不，你会请我尽我所能
I'll do my best
我将尽我所能
Thanks thank you okay so one this is it
谢谢你好，所以一个就是这样
one more question and make it quick okay
还有一个问题，让它快点好起来
hi dr. Peterson my question is I know
嗨博士彼得森我的问题是我知道的
you stated in the last lecture that the
你在最后一次演讲中表示，
importance for setting aims in life and
对于设定生活和生活目标的重要性
to kind of have goals to work towards
有种目标要努力
right so my question was where do you
对，所以我的问题是你在哪里
how do you do that if you don't know
如果你不知道 ，你怎么做到这一点
where you want to go because that's kind
你想去的地方，因为那样
of where I got stuck on you're your
我被困在你身上的是你的
future off authoring program because
未来的创作计划因为
yeah okay that's that's a good question
是的好吧，这是一个很好的问题
that's a really good question I think
这是我想的一个非常好的问题
it's the echoed to some degree in the
这是回荡在一定程度上在
structure of the biblical stories and in
圣经故事和结构
this manner so there's this notion in
这种方式所以这里有这个概念
the Old Testament that morality is
旧约中的道德是
following a sequence of prohibitions
遵循一系列禁令
there's a bunch of bad things you
有一堆坏事 你
shouldn't do and then basically you're
不应该做，然后基本上你是
good enough and I think there's wisdom
足够好，我觉得有智慧
in that I think that's kind of where
因为我认为那是一种地方
children start right you I mean I love
孩子们开始对你我的意思是我爱
children and all that but they're
孩子和所有，但他们是
they're they're crazy little creatures
他们是他们疯狂的小动物
and they need to be you know civilized
他们需要你是文明的
and partly what you do is you you lay
部分你做的是你，你躺着
prohibitions on them and mostly what
禁止他们，主要是什么
you're trying to do is lay prohibitions
你试图做的是放置禁止
on them for the behaviors that if they
对他们的行为， 如果他们
manifested would make their life
表现会使他们的生活
miserable so I have another chapter in
悲惨， 所以我有另一章
this book that I'm writing called don't
我正在写的这本书没有
let your children do anything that makes
让你的孩子做任何事情
you dislike them and the idea there is
你不喜欢他们和那里的想法
that your your job as a parent is to
你的你的工作作为家长要
help your children become the sort of
帮助你的孩子成为那种
four-year-olds that adults genuinely
四岁的成年人真诚
smile at when they come into a room
当他们进入房间时微笑
because that makes the entire social
因为这会使整个社会
environment both truthful and welcoming
真实和欢迎的环境
and so your job is to make them
所以你的工作就是制造它们
desirable social beings and a lot of
理想的社会存在和很多
that is prohibition okay and there's
这是禁止没关系，那里
this ethical transformation and it
这个道德转型和它
happens to some degree in the in the
发生一定程度的 中
tradition of the in the prophetic
在预言中的传统
tradition where there's a spirit that
传统，那里有一种精神
seemed in some sense to rise above the
在某种程度上似乎超出了这个范围
law but there's a real transformation
法律， 但有一个真正的转变
between the Old Testament and the New
旧约与新约之间
Testament because the Old Testament is
因为旧约圣经是遗嘱
prohibition and the New Testament is
禁止和新约
well here's the good things you do once
这是你一次做的好事
you're more than merely prohibiting
你不仅仅是禁止
yourself from from impulsive sin let's
让自己从冲动的罪恶中走出来吧
say there's a positive good to be
说有一个积极的好处
accomplished well you might say well I
成就好你可能会说我很好
don't know what the positive good is
不知道好东西是什么
fair enough man so so this is why this
公平的男人是如此，所以这就是为什么这个
thing that I've said to people to become
我已经向人们说的事情 成为
this crazy internet mean but that's to
这个疯狂的互联网意味着，但这是
clean up your room and which which is a
清理你的房间，这是一
lot better more useful than people think
比人们想象的更有用得多
it's a lot harder too but does the thing
它也很难，但是做到了
the first thing you do I think and I
我认为和你做的第一件事情
learned this in part from Solzhenitsyn
据了解，这部分来自索尔仁尼琴
when he was trying to iron out his soul
当他试图消除他的灵魂
when he was in the gulag because he was
因为他在古拉格时
trying to figure out how he got there
试图弄清楚他是如何到达那里的
how he contributed to how he got there
他是如何促成了他是如何到达那里
you know not Stellan and Hitler even
你甚至不知道斯泰伦和希特勒
though they were kind of a blade you
虽然他们是一种刀片你
know but he wasn't much he could do
知道但他没有多少能做的事
about that I think what you have to do
关于这一点我认为你必须做的
and this is part of humility is you have
这是谦卑的一部分，你有
to look around you within your sphere of
看看你周围的的范围内
influence like the direct sphere of
像直接势力范围
influence and fix the things that
影响并修复那些事情
announce themselves as in need of repair
宣布自己需要维修
and those are often small things you
而那些往往是小事
know and they can be like your room put
知道，他们可以像你的房间放
it in order because the thing is it
它是为了因为事情就是这样
isn't exactly so important that your
并不是那么重要，以至于你的
room is in order although it is what's
房间是为了尽管这是什么
important is that you learn how to
重要的是你学习如何
distinguish between chaos and order and
区分混沌与秩序与
to be able to act in a manner that
能够以某种方式行事
produces order and in most households
产生秩序，并在大多数家庭
there's a hundred things that could be
有一百个可能的事情
done to just make it less hideous and
这样做的目的只是让它变得不那么可怕
horrible and so practicing that is it's
可怕，如此练习，就是这样
a real useful form of meditation and
冥想的真正有用的形式和
it's also it's also I think it's a
这也是我认为这是一个
divine act because you're taking payoffs
神圣的行为，因为你正在获得回报
and you know if you pay attention even
你知道，如果你留意，即使
to a room it's so interesting I learned
到一个房间，我学到了 很有趣的 东西
because I've renovated many places now
因为我现在已经翻修了很多地方
and tried to make them beautiful and one
并试图让他们美丽，一个
of the things that I really learned is
我真正学到的东西是
that even if you own a structure unless
即使你拥有一个结构，除非
you've investigated all the nooks and
你已经调查过所有的角落了
crannies and cleaned them up and put
裂缝并将其清理干净
your own imprint on them and made them
你自己的印记和他们
yours they're not yours the mere fact of
你的他们不是你的事实
physical ownership doesn't make them
物理所有权不会使他们
yours you have to establish a dynamic
你必须建立一个动态的
relationship with the objects before
与之前的对象的关系
they're actually yours and I think you
他们实际上是你的，我想你
can you can do something as simple as
你可以可以做简单的东西
just sit on your bed and think okay
只是坐在你的床上，并认为没关系
there's probably like five things I
我可能有五件事
could do today so that tomorrow morning
明天早上可以今天做
is slightly better than this
比这略好
morning was at least or at least I'm not
早上至少或至少我不是
falling behind and those who usually be
落后和那些 通常是谁
like having to eat a toad in the morning
就像早上不得不吃蛤蟆一样
right it's like it's not going to be
这就像它不会是
something you want to do there'll be
你想要做的事情会有的
things you're trying to avoid there
你试图避免的事情
snakes essentially but if you ask
蛇本质上，但如果你问
yourself like you're asking someone
你自己就像你在问别人
which i think is a form of prayer if you
我认为这是一种祈祷方式， 如果你
ask yourself instead of telling yourself
问自己，而不是告诉自己
you know what is it that I could do to
你知道我能做些什么
set things more right today that I would
今天就把事情设定得更准确一些
actually do it's usually some small
实际上它通常是一些小的
thing because he's not that disciplined
因为他不是那种有纪律的人
you know then you can go do it and then
你知道那么你可以去做，然后
you you put the world together a little
你把世界放在一起
more when you do that and that spreads
当你这样做并且传播时更多
out but you also put your you also
出去，但你也把你也放在你身边
construct yourself into something that's
构建自己的到的东西，是
better able to call order forth from
能够更好地向客户发出呼吁
chaos and that makes you just
混乱，这让你只是
incrementally stronger and then the next
逐渐增强，然后下一个
day you can maybe take on a slightly
一天你可能会稍微承担一点
larger task and like you get the benefit
更大的任务和喜欢你的好处
of compound interest if you do that it's
复合利益，如果你这样做
a tremendously powerful technique and
一个非常强大的技术和
they think if you do that at some point
他们认为如果你在某个时候这样做
instead of just having to fix things up
而不是只需要解决问题
that are not good you'll start to get a
这不好，你会开始得到一个
glimmer of the positive things that you
你对一些积极的事情的微笑
could do you know you did the positive
你能否知道你做了积极的事情？
things that you could do that would
你可以做的事情会
actually constitute a vision and now
实际上构成了一个愿景，现在
that's what I would recommend thank you
这就是我会建议的谢谢你
all right good night
晚安，晚安
[Applause]
[掌声]