Alright and we're gonna get
we're gonna get started here
my name is David Vance
and I am present here at the new school
I gone to be extremely brief
Our speakers can only be with a short time tonight
I want to be sure you have maximum opportunity to hear from them
I just want to say him have to The New School
how proud we are to co-host this with the New York Times
This came together very quickly
In about a week and...
It's a great in most welcome surprise opportunity for us
The New School delighted to be a destination for this kind of activity
In fact right now
simultaneously over an hour there are auditorium we have I wait
piped in speak to our conference on the fear a fear of are...
So someone who has to go to both those things
somebody said boy you must be joking around a lot nicer
now this is wonderful couldn't be any any better
It's very much new school
So again thank you everybody for being here today
something wrong, okay, alright
TimesTalk is delighted and honored to be here tonight
to present the Oscar-Nominated Director of CitizenFour
the compelling and important film
nominated for the Academy Award for Best Documentary Feature this year
joining her is her collaborator in the film
the Pulitzer prize-winning journalist
who was the first to write about the film's revelations
about government surveillance of private citizen
we are also very pleased to present the live video
the person who had the courage to reveal his findings and started it all
you'll hear much more about our guest, the film
and all the issues it raises
in just a moment from tonight's moderator
Every Monday his New York Times Media Equation Column
is must reading for everyone concerned with how media intersects
with business and politics and Society and culture
he's also the author the frank and fascinating memoir
THE NIGHT OF THE GUN
and the Andrew R. Lack Professor of Media Studies at Boston University
But before we meet him and our guest
let's take a quick look at CitizenFour
which will air on HBO on February 23rd
the day after the Academy Awards
Does the NSA collect data on hundreds of millions of Americans
Not wittingly
让你公然受辱
My name is Edward Snowden
无处不在的电子...真正的危机四伏
Edward Joseph Snowden the full name
授予今年最佳纪录片奖
I don't want to hide
I get arrested I get arrested
get the information out regardless what happens to me
CitizenFour VTR now playing
and now please join me
in welcoming New York Times media columnist David Carr
and are very special guest
Laura Poitras and Glenn Greenwald and...
the live video Edward Snowed
Laura guess we should start by congratulating you on your
director's guilt the world that's kind a fresh
congratulations
when I could congratulate you on your Pulitzer
but I'm a fellow journalist in kind of jealous
felt so little stale also
you know what if i [] baby sweet never get []
I'm so... I'm I watched your film and it really is a film
also documentary but it's a film in all aspects
I watched it for a second time the other night
you know it could have been more impressed than just
a huge fan in this film and particular in
how it fits with the other ones
but I clicked after Like watching it
click the Like back on
something about
the way you made that movie
and whether reveals just makes a little hard to sleep
and I know part of was the that the realization
we live inside a turnkey security apparatus
but they're also its
its its its part in the technique
a filmmaking in Utah
about the feeling when you made it
fell dangerous
in you've done your share for reporting sir
could you talk a little bit about that
for me I mean as a filmmaker artists
how do you not just provide information
you know because
news does that
but how do you sort of express something
on emotional terms
and and that's what I'm trying to do and
and I think with this film
you know I fell me
you know before actually
contacted me I was already working
on the topic the surveillance
and its and it's something
that's very soon pernicious an ominous
that you start to feel me
if you went to the become aware bitter
you think your targeted by it
and it does give you a sense of not being able to sleep
I mean that was kinda feeling
I felt for actually you know
thanks to ed its first email me
it was pretty soon after his first couple emails
that I actually stops being able to swim
be able to rest in the same way
because I knew
just how have deep these powers going
but they're also because they're so the in the shadows
you there they can get in your head
in a different kind of way
Glenn, when you show up in movie
and I've got you now
I've got no you will not enough to know
you can wear life like a loose garment
you don't get riled by much
and you're just gonna like sitting down and
get into it and
is it that you've always assume that
your every move is watched in
this is just another day or
No. I think I'm mask the anxiety really well
that was your impression
you know I had spent
the 16 hours on the plane ride
from New York to Hong Kong
booking through this extraordinary archive
a copy of which were at given me
to use her copy
until I got my own from
men in hong kong
reporting on the plane
and so by the time I got to hong kong
I had a good sense of
what the brat and magnitude not only
have the spying was
but about this story was going to be
in so there is so much going on
in terms of the threats
that we thought might be lurking
the danger to our source
trying to assess our source to make sure rival
but mostly what I was focused on
once I realized that these documents was
was just
how do I get these to the public
as quickly as possible
and so I was so single-mindedly focused
first time making sure that
our source was who he was claiming to be
and that what we had was what he reported to be
and then once I got that
I was just so so eager to start
putting it out into the world without a blog
but I think it was just that kinda focus that
that is what you see
the I'm were lucky enough now
through Google hangout
Ed is you here, yes your here
can you hear us?
yes I can you hear perfectely, Can you hear me?
okay, so these guys show up
you go through that that spy master protocol
that you set up with Laura
I forget what what the secret word was
and these guys show up
you've been corresponding with them
were they expect what you expected them to be?
Yeah. Because we had sort of
asymmetrical relationship
they were published in use
so as I was able to research them
you know I have photographs
I know what they look like even their age
He work to the NSA
he could look at them.
- No I asked... - It was not to that.
I asked him earlier...
There quickly declear to impossible I silent
but but when you look into it NSA file
does it say
good ed nice person
well actually she was on the watch list
so that was that was one of the reasons
that I chose her
to be sort of the quarter back to
on this early on
when I was having difficulty reaching Glenn
was because she didn't personally sedivide
not only did she understand the program
she no respond
with NSA the belly
who wasalthough the shower make a gun point by the FBI
they trying to reveals concerns about
these programs earlier years
so not only did she have a little expertise
this I also knew that she was involved
with people read very highly technical security
- yeah well -- - when we can climb the staying
really majors natural
she chose yourself
that Glenn wouldn't respond your entreaties to encrypt
Glenn actually a famous cases
we used the encryption program call GPG
which is very difficult to use spy
but I will say they update documentation
for this program's against to use
in with his revelations
and he is now permanently memorialized as the example
in use this use my name
all its for you
but you didn't actually wanted to meet these gays.
well I did the
didn't want to meet them
but it was a question I
control the circumstances where you make sure that
the risks I'll preemption
I'm gonna
I limiting utility for sure the adversary
things tree sense certainly really
for the government to find a single Taylor were
process in shuttle impose Irish
arrest source you know me in jail
under special administrative measures against here the
watch germans yeah it was also if they had
historian the winter it
it's also cuz you didn't want to be this story right
with that was doubtless be we talk about
personalizing cameras my were initially asses documentary
you know human what I do.
in I said no no no a very long time
number reasons not least of which is when you're
involved in an action which is very likely miss you donated
donor can was actually awesome
I got when lawyer said okay
well you can go but you notice don't dump me
camera that right so how it looks you know
taking no for an answer yep once once I
across the room I you because I was actually
leading sir bread crumbs government to know
you know this isn't some hardstyle ash
is this is hotly interest were
which his based justice re
once it was clear there is no interest
preemption and hopefully
the room we continue she was able to say
you know one once what's the
rooms here do and everybody in the room she
basically just turned the camera on
we discussed selects I'm
so so how'd you like the movie is
its in crude
yours crowd
Mason she nominee NASCAR
and I'm be don't think there's any someone
their yet I
I would say that as a consumer
news the bid you guys meet for the Guardian
to start with very important for me
to like lookin go this guy seems normal
to me I don't see I don't see a second had popularity him
I don't see a lot a spill running down his cheek and
win when you guys both UN
and Glenn talked about the
important there being a human in the middle
this is at Purdue what your die-cast me at you know when I
when I and first met and at that first day
that was the thing that convince
me that we could I really had an opportunity to
do something that hasn't quite been done before
in part because you know having
worked on on whistleblower cases I was a big
defender WikiLeaks Chelsea Manning
my childhood hero is daniel
ellsberg you know that the strategy always is to do
exactly that to say
these people are psychologically unstable their Alinea
alienated on just sort of a quay this level of dissent
with the definition above
meant all instability so that you wanna come to
turn away from
the revelations because the person revealing it is just so kinda
icky on and when I A met at and saw that you know he
he's very humble and smart and articulate in
know the key looking to sort
it looks like the grandkid every midwestern
couple
you know
I I knew that the government
was going to have an extremely difficult time
I'm playing that game in this
case and combined with the fact that he was so
adamant is
you know you seen the film
about coming forward I'm not because he has to but
because he wants to because
he's proud of what he did and wants to publicly
account for a
the combination of his kind of normalcy with the power
love that act in the conviction
behind it on I knew was going to just be
like a nuclear weapon I'm it
was gonna set the government back on their heels
and I think it did for months and we're always
I think we've got a few steps
ahead of the government they were just reeling it
in quite
respond yeah I mean for me it's
I mean it's not might usually and I do long form so I
usually spend more time you know
editing and processing the foreperson in public
but we knew we were that there was that there was a
time clock ticking we knew
the government you know I visited as house
and that their was only
a matter of time before have been your best
right and and and added
made the decision that he was going to conceal
his identity so
it was an obvious choice for me but I remember will be run at the
really tied time pressure I mean I think show you a cut
on other here Sunday the
day we publish where they've been able for
show to cut the job right you in over my clan
we we watch down one version
ovett and then they gave notes and then
you know we sent it to the Guardian to put out me
like three in the morning
and we're actually didn't know quite what was
going to happen easy to see that in the film
that you I mean in retrospect
we should be prepared a little bit more
for the their I yeah permaurl
that were you know and having checked in under his own name
meant that it wouldn't take
long for journalistic to find a to find him
I mean I'm actually surprised in retrospect me see all the chyron
Hong Kong England's breaking
all the stories that while the journalists and
a investigated Jonathan
already had heard hopped on a plane to go to hong
kong to find out what's
happening in hong kong nobody wants ever asked me
like
as bring all the stories about
the NSA every single day I was on every new show
and no one in an eternal its ever thought ass like he
we like why are you doing the stories Hong Kong
I don't know actually but that's not what happened because
I he was on a green screen
segment told them not to publish its location say
they don't see where I am in need
you notice the green screen is
just you with backdrop and then they did the car
running
actually I think yes CNN agreed not to say that I was going
on which they didn't do but
they played in the background every single
identifiable
on landmark wat is CNN that day
and when I when NPR caller somebody and they said
we know you're hot lines at how do you know that they said
I'll watch your CNN
appearance since I hated so we know when we knew
and I think you know for me
when I thought about yours without the hardest
part was going to be
how to convey the tension
to an audience that already knows the outcome
but I think one of the things the film did so brilliantly ways
it really did underscore we were in that hotel room
you know we were just worried
about the US government we worried about
the chinese authorities
and the hong kong government other foreign
intelligence
services you might want to
get there hands-on but we're working with so
there was always hovering
over every second in that room that threat that
something really cataclysmic
I think we're only going
to 1 one little clip consignments pressures
but I think we got that mood Claire a
you guys do you ever been to bill you can draw I used
your pullover ads pretty my game sorry
at the obscurity where armies it'll be a picture using a novel
I'll we running
good 10 winners would be good if they had to
brute force the entirety space
a arm that would still probably only a couple
of days for an essay
that the fire
forest sounds like a
37 past whereas trying to call them and ask
house it's fine
yeah I don't think it's an issue thing design
before maybe the Dominican listen to us feel
is
mile of before known as the first minister
yes they do you think you think a like in
alerting first I'm unusual
my head
me is it goes
ok is not continues donde se
if it continues here
yeah what's a sleep for now
me finish this up
not the answer
release them hi
we hear loud buzzing on
the 10th floor can you tell us what that is
okay
okay great thank you by fire alarm testing
your here nice isn't it
nice of them to let us know about them in yes
art
feeling the they were leaves
sleepin in the door you would
have been more than happy to just keep working
lanyards your dislike whatever
seems far documents and discuss with their worry about buyer
I was interested sure that you like
so you got a a Edward snowden which
there was just like a word and the now is
this guy and we're talking Newham and it
the tendency is a if I was
making the film would be just squeeze a mic a great
were in not were in the room with this guy emerges
also in it turns and heads known show both he
in you like you you
you set the table and then you made
much much bigger movie and so I admire their choice but I just
just want to talk about woodrow I mean deny
my filmmaking comes out in
a cinema verite which he said a film things as
they're happening in
I didn't want to interrupt
and as comeback story questions I figured we
would learn everything
we wanted to know about
him in that moment and I was also just simply
interested in the journalism
I mean I was interested in
this what this encounter was going to be like and
and I'd known Glen before and film but clan
and I knew that the questions
he would he was gonna be asking and how he went
about
opening together was gonna be
really extraordinary document about journalism
so that's sort of what my my focus was and then I also felt like
I mean I was also trying to
respect some some boundaries I mean I knew that
that didn't you know want this to be just about him
and and so the also that so
do you think she was I'm
true to the agreement you mean as collaborators
a to tonight not pre- and the call to personality that
at sell this story yeah I mean
the fact that she starts before she focuses on
there are many other players game ultimately
not the cell me its
us small your
all is experience revolution
suspicion beginning knowing crew
his and in the end the aftermath you know
really or in you know I'm
never really been or other than as that initial mechanism
its so fascinating media and this
obsessive interest my person
my its so much more or
men's up there's a moment in the film no
when all is unknown you'd lit the fuse
you lit the fuse you lit the fuse you say
I'm paraphrasing but like there's a great freedom
in not knowing what comes now
and I just think to myself why would be scared shitless
right now arm and you literally did not know what was coming
knacks it seems like you've landed well and
you know you have your partner with you
and your say but all that was not know
at the time I'm were
were were you really as calm as you acted
I me win low-key
still when you watch the
whole way through its extraordinary because
the stress responses each individual
crew year I mean well really dimes were
you know were other she
she's becomes or camera like many things working
stores in for me it was all about transmission information has
you know through my we know this but when
linda Sue that period there's almost
psychological deep personal situation where I'm
I got this rain affect just
basically brain don't think information journalists
in in is because I and kindness and
I was going to be arrested in the ocean moons
came on we were force said you know once
firearms and you know were years along
no that whenever someone is
arrested in hotel in arrest you in your room
or a pre-tax th
are whether its law enforcement fireworks they say
also me rain is your car partner age
how rude and and Aston
pulls you out but in the moment
you know when I was thinking
about you know the second I didn't know what's
happening
I feel very much like mine or the story
who I done what I need here but you really want to then
you knew this size at the apparatus
it would all be now now like walking toward you
are
you know that big from
mean machine they tried to make you out to be
some some current temp worker for the CIA
and it's turned out you general
%um Road Cincinnati
last taxes for janitor you know you a very significant
access in every job that you
had and so you know that all be turning toward you
you're just like what will
be well will be were you worried about him
yeah I was really worried I mean I I mean
mean when I was shooting
there was things like to an ice on the editing
room after that for got that shot
you know and I think had
said that earlier that everything she couldn't
remember me never
once it was really pretty
high stakes and I think I'd been working on this
story for a while
I've been like you need the or whatever ID
an essay and I think that's right a lot of time dissident
can imagine that case that you can
really like totally let me know and I think
II actually you know I think
although I'd like to say about the story and
I don't wanna be the focus of
the story the reality is he is an important part
of the story and I think
he should be an important part in the story
because what he did I mean he's
sitting here you're able to see on the screen he
wears a sports jacket he
appears you know where he's invited to speak
but at the time in hong kong
not only was it not guarantee that he was gonna
and well-liked
to speak for myself I thought it was 95 percent certain
that he was gonna end up in
American custody in be put in a cage for pretty
much the rest of his life
cap you know sequestered the
way they they treat national security threat
and he thought that was a
good possibility to we talked about that and
he was sober design to any not resigned to it in
and a defeatist way bait know
he was just at peace with the choice that he
had made there was never a moment where he
exhibited any remorse or regret
or you know oh shit what have I done a I wish I
could take it back
and that was simultaneously for me at least so I'm
balding
it was like okay with this
person is just sent done something so incredibly
fearless and courageous that I
think we felt like we had to try and do justice
to his choice in what we then did
but also it was kinda depressing
I mean I you know I worked on Chelsea Manning's
case for a long time in
defending her as sort of a
relic it was always a helpless feeling she was
put in solitary confinement you
knew she was going to prison there was nothing
you could do and I felt very much the same
for this person for him you
know which has done this incredibly admiral thing
I get any moment he was gonna end up in shackles and
traded or straight into the
US government which you know almost always
get its way
and there were a few times when he came very close to that
and it was a little bit of
luck but a lot of cunning as well that he was able
to end up
the way ended up reading at
the critical part of the story because it shows
people
you can stand up to the US
government you can take a courageous step that you
believe in is an active conscience
on and not be disappeared not
be put in the cage you can find a way to then
live a fulfilling life and
I think that's why that part of the story I
think is vital
for yet did to me you seem to
you seem to take take a believe it somehow
the more public you were the sea for it was
for you Apple in not not that there was a sure thing
but that was certainly the better side a bad bet
it was a big gamble I mean yeah I'ma your
ap no
everything that was happening
in this this period you know we didn't
and a real model on whether it was
you know journalists with me
we're home was your pants when we talk about that moment where is
way you know I'm confronting
that don't know what's going to happen tomorrow I said
it's the IEEE normally every day in our lives
confronts with so many choices dewey
in Greece are hopeful
status quo word research change things rightly
world doesn't really change things around
we might you think I'll choices
you know in the sacrifice something against in these situations
you gotta no and what
I Sam Rosen moon when everybody who's in
tell 1 was that
actually burn bridges is a creepy to drive you
world you doesn't drop gets one way
on was ur any part have you
add that wait when you started them Moscow Airport per
what was it thirty nine days
we said maybe asian ass for travel advice from a
guy who's stuck at the Ecuadorian embassy
in Britain maybe that wasn't the best travel agent
as it turned out it was okay but
the did you think yourself
I guess maybe people were lined up to help you
I actually love Voice and
you know really think lawyers but you know
Julian and week since there and everybody was ball
nasa me the lockers some
is you know reforms not overall it's a
you know I'm incredibly I'm in
world the same or the sacrifices they made
were but yeah you know there were challenges there
we know thanks to some other
order indocin you know the reason our stuff
and muscular
or had nothing to do with you know advice from lawyers would
I didn't do it US government they didn't cancel ones
were until after I had departed home
it was in the air you know and I decided based on a network
the NSA they have my trial yes you know they
she said ask your name white man
this my world's my new
that I'm Sandra to Latin
America and strangely they stopped me in which
where people wee heart disorder
you know get real me instead letting it all Latin America
where the incredible truly to do so
and we don't have an answer for why yeah it's never
their on I thinking
mall an here but I have a Dell rose
community decides that mean I
think her hearse in particular to the Normans to
to seek political asylum for ed
that and and I think the Juliana mean I mean we
yeah I mean that and what
I mean we saw the enough
people in the US government threatening him
and and so there's the other real with and known
the US government wasn't happy you know with us no
discussion about what you
know calling us coconspirators in this kind of
language mean
well I mean you knew your're
been intercepted coming into this country
forty times before you ever yeah
edited a frame yet bill
I'm just like saying before you sort of put
I mean I think that we also
defend the right time in the right to the free
press
written and yet right
you're right that is also targeted so I think
we found in different places
in the spectrum into the risks that we will
taken okay so are we in it it change your life
it change the way for
people that you a a change you like ginger like
now the great unfolding has happened
across America across UK across the globe
are you happy with the outcome I mean
I you know I agree view I
remember the first conversation ever had with Dad
way he literally said to me the only thing that I fear
is that unravel my life to make all this
visible and transparent and that nobody will care
it'll just be kinda this apathy and indifference
and you know I remember the
moment in hong kong we did the first two or three
stories and I was able to watch
add watch the global news
explode with the stories and felt so gratified
and it's basically been like
that for the last 18 months I mean if I go around
the world as they do in my book
or we still do to talk about things are Wars film
it makes an extraordinary impact because they'll
intensity of the debate that
has been triggered not just United States but
globally
i think is chain consciousness
about so many things and that's beyond the
concrete changes the
companies being forced to you
encrypt improve their devoted to privacy so they
don't
whole generation abusers or
individuals using encryption which really puts a
wall between the government and surveillance
but I just think the debate that we were able to have
we couldn't have before not
just about surveillance but privacy in the digital
age
and the role of journalism
and the dangers government secrecy in the world
the United States place in the world
when you start changing consciousness like that on
it may take a while for it to
happen but there's no question that the changes
that
are engendered will be
fundamental that to me is by far the most gratified
this I mean I in other and everything you know is a couple reduce
I wouldn't mind having but I
think you know when we were sitting around talking
about possible outcomes you
know with lawyers I mean sitting here with you
was not one of them then
we reliever thinking that there is a many
potentially
that possible outcomes and and to have the
the a think the International where nasa mean we we
I think we had no idea hell allied
what do you say I did the most skin in the game
I think everybody involved is P some
Boston you know I can
Android all yes
there there's a lot of
things that are out there its incredibly says
to be hard cell there is a tremendous
he's comes from doing ended
and in the day you know we never look back
you know I really wish
just needed in
done because yeah
you know as a little bit more difficult now yeah I'll people's
would now he has a tremendous impact
no in 2013 courts in the US for San
he hears he discuss now
explosion or cases all world any
being decided holds see guards
as and just one more thing we
travel it's our ices on individual
a lot one much
that was employees %um
we names del
no violence and I'll
he room a refugee don't their ways
yeah home it
trouble arming customs and he did it with
out you know alleged wasn't
he did this without the authorization so the whole
or hymns and he lost his job
but it's very likely that you know I mind
farm courage walk past if I didn't know I had
least some for refugee their
know it was almost immediately cancelled this isn't normal
bitch you know not at all this Werner person inside
mission this is the right in the movies
I'm staying me with people around the world record was
nationally arms position not this is some
were resisting you know my status
my job my for you I think the better part gotten better
all inline long wanna when the more unusual point
film for me is when you talk about the original
promise
web and it's almost
candor are you talk about
the weapon what it could do and the possibilities
data right now in it's been
it's been kidnapped it's been
overtaken net net are you happy there is a world wide web
yeah I mean it's no secret basam
your dreams governments around
the world arms or trying to plug the Internet over
the hand-drawn
truck you will find a place where they can quietly show whole
the ocean but the reality is people here
about our ability to communicate ins which with
out be monitor inge
some yet and as long as we have
that ultimately mean record this is
the efforts you did when it comes down to it
yes governments possessiveness
corner on the United States in a budget
agree around the world there more
and we gotta you much more 14
in other countries what
in the day there or us then
or as long as we work together as long as we value our
rights wouldn't
more I'm interested in how
you see this movie fitting
in with your other movies is part of the
at triptych my country my country
that was nominated for an Academy Award and that was about
iraq and the old
which is about guantanamo in in this movie do you see them as
these this is just kinda stories you're attracted to
or do you see it through mine
there's a 3-1 mean when I went for ought to make
that film I never met in the ten years later the still
looking at similar themes in the country still you know
you and the policy that I that I I think ur
you know really drifting away from you know moral compass and law
and into I thought it was
a temporary emergency moments that you know
post-9/11 you know guantanamo opened
iraq and that year they didn't imagine it being sitting here
ten years later and you know it's interesting England
you know early reporting
was also innocent looking at America post-9/11
and
you know on one hand its its kinda I
it's sad I think that we're
still here that for instance guantanamo still open
as we sit here a.M. But accidentally citizen for has something
hopeful in it and and it's hopeful for me because
people basically been doing be courageous and
and and say something about what they say is wrong in the world
started I think when I think
Jeremy Scahill bill Binnie who's in the film
I mean I love them you know
for putting themselves out there to say like
we need rethink what we what are we doing as a country is
do we want to be a country
that's defined by how much violence for use in
the world
re you know one remain closer toward our ideals and
and so so there's I do think there's a 3-1 I'm
play India ever are you ever surprised by happen
and the the documents it had helped get you
just pop-up like every single day like the other day did
story about it Iran's ability
to attack it's like well two actually the end of a snake
we we train them in by attacking them
yeah I mean the US government loves you are on warning about
the profound danger zone cyber warfare on
even though they're the most
aggressive perpetrators of cyber warfare by far and
and
the what prompted that was
there is this warning from the pentagon that said
were really worried that
Iran is becoming increasingly potent another
adversaries in their ability
to on cyber warfare that I just remembered
this document that I had read
like nine months ago that I meant to report it
just never quite got around to it on
where the NSA said oh you know
actually the reason why ron is getting so good at
cyber warfare is because we just keep attacking them with all the
sophisticated virus is that they're able to study and replicate
and and we're kinda you know creating our own
adversaries which is what
the united states is really good at doing is
continuously ensuring
that the words fighting find more Mar causes
on be no it's funny I remember
pride the first six months after the stories to do
everything
you know AC interviews and
people used to say some you know are there more
stories the comment I would you say
yeah there's definitely more
stories to comment and there be headlined by Glenn
Greenwald warned
big stories coming
as I have like convened a
news conference to announce this or something
I'm like some
your public greater wrote a thing saying I wish she would stop
you know previewing a story
but I wasnt answering the question honestly and
I just always wanted to convey
that I mean what edwards known and has provided
is something so vast
I mean which I'll see Manning
provided with you it was similar for this look at
how America fights were
from dated a perspective on the ground in and wide
on and has provided is this incredibly
sweeping complex comprehensive
look into how the United States and its allies
conducts itself in the world
and the things that it does that it hides from
the public
in a way that it's gonna take a good while on
before even really big stories are fully reported and their stall
I think today reporters
without borders put a slight
forty ninth in the world in press freedom I
we got edged up by bouts 1 I'm pretty sure yeah buts wanna
show he was a few US me
a couple much traffic African
countries at the state department has been coming
on press freedom grounds for ever
several spots ahead as well so yeah we r
media free world from the rank 49 I'm
I'm interested in is dead because you were
you were thinking about a mover earlier and you that well
let's let's wait and see what Obama is really about
and it's like in I was kind of like
similar like maybe it's involving maybe
in a is it turns out you know
probably the worst administration and terms are
transparency that I've ever
you know covered and what I wonder about is like
you're kind of a spoon did this book's get
him a I mean
what happened could be
the intelligence community diana is really millions
Williams in in general you know the people who make career
until still here who is this guy
he's he's beyond a years you hear
third right even yet most intelligence
president there are some really really is pro
warm wants to make sure we're leading the world base
ballons this or abilities
those William those in what
learns the president is the next president
when they come in they're gonna get
E as soon as they take the that is designed to steer
and they go here almost three streams
for or in the
rain dress begins %um family
against people against analyze know when we will
the every day you know each day we its on details oakley's
stop Ian unless you give us new
stories we're not certain countries there's a really fascinating
exchange in the senate untold where they had the achievable the
NCTC National Counterterrorism Center Dianne Feinstein who is
certainly knows or munchies my first
its some names acting yet don't blame 01
like trader and things like that that's one
momentum you know if you're not willing
to be calls and that means to serve your country
you know here much countries you know room ruining
but ultimately a she she has NCTC
under from news about the torture she said well
in men's on torture use this horrendous
it said the sky is gonna you know organizers is going to kill
if you release this report in a backlash
against as you proven that we forge
and she had a literal chamber and I'm paraphrasing
she's she who sang sky has a all
and he explains and he hands
almost goes for all these
bureaucratic excuses and ultimately it boils down to
isolate WPI
which was ones this is is commonly
he he didn't say process was wrong
because that would undermines our company don't see he can't
say it was right because him winds
but this happens every day
to a new president that's kinda what happens they
this were regardless their intent
the in a home in Greece labor unions are the same us know
access all this information
don't feel bad about you previous positions because
you didn't know
US's information but now I'm you
and now you know you make the incidence easy for people to just
not bad it just means
look these are people who were its doing this for sixty years in
I as a as a community indeed
issue line the problems when we look any
a person's who is they came in office as well
meanwhile you listen was one
surveillance without warrants
not a good thing but in the East Indies policies
for example
eyes and are 2000 a in we've got now
allows war lists rent general want somebody to you
got it number when they have
these things they don't do anything about them
how do we explain that the most frustrating thing for me
now is is the fact that the president has the power
is executive eighteens and these that race is not required by law
even close own home strong an
he and miss months more so
and you know we your
comment something all were hoping for a while
we don't need law yemenese
think around is the president all
people countries not going to stand up for our rights
welcome this message does this send
citizens June people around
the world about 10 rebounds really mean to our
this is the last thing on I just wanna say the
the since 2013 are not
and its not and on tells
you and a certain amount
anything there in is a mini
ru me since these problems is means
real or the
we see that attention
guide I'm I wonder if this prior to where you open with clapper
over and over saying
because you you wonder I'm not like
go and I don't miss who are are elected government is out to
screw it said every turn a
usually ends up being right but I'm still can is
sticking with what I got
but I'm bed I dot party what you're trying to do is say
this is the information we're getting
they're getting is clapper
over and over seen something we know manifest
I mean it him in the beginning
in the film certainly the contacts not just in
time
government was saying or
the lies government telling but also what was
happening in the legal round mean you have the
the you know the government
arguing that everything is a state secret
you can talk about this is a case of jewel the NSA which is
litigation that's been in in the courts for years now
and and the government has
been doing to try to block any challenges to its
policy is just basically declared state secrets and
and so the beginning the film's
to try to set up the context it also sets the
context
you know what is it you know
what happens with the words may come forward
in a meet William Binney
you don't get any higher than the technical director the NSA
and you know what what our government did to him
you know that under investigation his house with guns
and so so that's kinda what
the the beginning in the film's trying to do
not just make it about this
one particular but what was the context in
which
you know when we arrive in this meeting in Hong Kong
what sets the stage and then the cop thing is so critical because
one of the things I think does
go off sometimes in this debate is people tend
to frame it as
a debate about privacy and
that this survey on stage subverts the right to
privacy and obviously does do that
on but what it really does I think were before that is that
it subverts democracy on BK is
what you have is a
government doing its most consequential policies
not but all the deal with
all the details being this close but even the
broad strokes are you have
a government that decided to turn the internet
into a venue mass surveillance
to essentially collect the entire Internet
to troll through whatever they want without even uttering a peep
to the American public about
it not something that always amazes me about
the attacks on snowed in
and are reporting is you know I can kinda see a reasonable debate
if you're using like a really
broad definition of what's reasonable overpass
surveillance like if someone wants to say
you know I think it's a
really good thing for the government to monitor
everybody's communication
in to conserve the palace under a microscope
I'm gonna disagree but I can
at least understand that debate that there's a
debate about that
what I can understand any debate
over is whether or not it's a good thing that we
now know about the government doing these things
so that we can debate Saikia ever imagine anybody saying
actually think it's better if we had remained completely
ignorant up all the things
that our government is doing in yet that to me
implicitly is what the people
who criticize Edward snowed in our reporting
are essentially arguing even though they train just up in
in this ridiculous costumes
is we would have preferred to have remained
as ignorant as we were prior
to 2013 about all the things our government was
doing at that to me is unreasonable that are sinners
I think that there's a there's this fast so wall
I don't have anything to
hide night I I've seen you go at this before
really spill your email for me
I'm coming over to your house to look through your stuff child
let me put video camera think
about them in your bedroom I just uploaded to the
Internet
you know it well on people
react first public call the police if you really
like pursue that
you know rights away but even just intellectually
people instinctively find
the idea a Palin because everyone knows that
there's a value
to you we all have things to hide their things that
we only tell our spouses are
best friends are physicians are lawyers are
psychologist that we don't want anyone to know about not
just those among us who are terrorists or criminals but all of us
on around the privacy is
critical to human freedom to political activism it's
something that we
always sought out in every
way and basically but the people are saying you
say
you know I have anything
to hide is they're saying I've agreed to turn
myself
into such a submissive compliant an interesting person
that I don't actually think the government's interested in me and
they're frightening to hide
that in itself is an extraordinary
damage that you accept that park in that
parking even exist
but I think for all of us
just the knowledge that we might be watched at
every given moment
is very psychologically damaging it means that we really
significantly narrow the
options human behavior that we think are available
and is another's point out
limit speech just by its practice right I'm
I'm interested in having just one brief consumer moment here
in addition to be in when leading filmmakers have our time
Grattan you know how big security expert
you have consulted with the NSA
and with the their CT oh and the CIA's
CTL land you're more
you and I have a little bit more in cairo night
you can write what are we
supposed to be doing are we supposed to be but not
everything
what everybody here is watching your movie in seeing what
this isn't this isn't about me is that
and yet I mean people should be a meanie
much people can use means to to secure their their
their communication right now and so you can download
the the Tor browser which is
available to cryptid web browsers if you wanna
search the web for anything you know one
be connected to your IP address then download tore
it's free it's made by people who you know devote their
their energy to to keeping that the internet a free place
and you can also it there's tech security one year
here in you text messages to to be
encrypt it then download text secure also free is
you know there's a free
software movement that's been building tools for
a long time
and they're available for
all about everybody in the room and another
yet minds mean it's kinda similar thing I
is a very integral in which are to get
d ins the like yes but Brian E
yep for my might
but what you're saying is that right general
you have to primary
its when you talk about Jones election on
on the ball bases on the island or mass is
the most important is
transport levels you sent a text message goes across
own work you know you know those waters
Hong Kong and they give all information
to Intel's is no are so what we're saying is protect that
transmission are you got she said text secure
and you're a person SMS messages free you got rent some
remains York all your re
as you get signal is the name the program
word I S
him worker in your contacts on
Apple these are all you know it takes 30 seconds
for rosa which is great transferable securities
you have to remember that the government's harm she specifically
they won't just exchanges across the internet get
on and is any telephone device
or your computer at home
hell in your Samsung TV and have
they're listening to use it sits in your living room I'm
what we need to do me to create standards that protect
every we meetin worst we need
force our rights not just letters on each
war through the systems that surrounds everyday
your line and Wii
problem with the to stand up and say we're gonna
is on systems way we
are we're giving I'll the ability
knowingly undermine rights we're not missing the government
you know has no ability to investigate or is it that in common
that's not us is the company's up to the customer
themselves to sell themselves I'm really
was investigating Hill I'm
are just gonna chill all the moms in the audience for Zack
so you're your your in Russian
now you're able stayed for three years right
right so are you getting enough to eat is the food good
you look good thanks yeah I know I'm
my is a is changed a lot were
a lot more a lot harder now the
world previous jobs actually a pretty easy
you collect hi H Road work but the
now the even working more on
thats that's something that
is is sends units at the end of the day as as long as I
he relationships had
people work things that matter to me
well I know you probably have an ungodly hour we're a
in these guys are in between
screens their film you all took time off
to get with us I know we're just thrilled that you came
was we had so much fun thanks a bunch
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