on wanna talk about today's just purely the architectural thread
and why we show how that really comes back together again so
outlets
did on wanna talk about today first evolved into
organizations and I'm gonna talk about transformation
organizations because really when we start to talk
architecture architecture always needs a scope of some type
you can say let's architect the entire government
up this way GNA or when that might be a very big job
I but might be an impossible job so you should we talk about
apartment so it's really important to know what the boundaries of what your
your study
the those those banners are quite important again it could be very small
it can be very big
as long as you're very clear what that's going to be but those organizations will
be changing and so on
animosity to talk about the the logical business architecture
on there is a logic to this is not just
a series of things randomly thrown together there's a logic in terms of how
does all the information
relate to the other information in other words I'm nice to know
for example which processes are you are used or execute
in which organizational units on it's also nice to know what information is
created by this process is used by this process and so on was
is actually a structural component this and energy
listen to people like John Zachman is quite well known in this
in this space John will always talk about the structure housing stick
together
but myself being at being industrial engineer
by training and I practice originally one of things I also realize you have to
talk about how you do things you can't just talk about the result of what you
do
you have a good way of doing things as well that's where the business process I
will come in
and hopefully look will connect these things together so you talk
boss about the structure as well as as well as the methods both
working together that way one of the things I think that's really quite
important that a lot of people miss
in you don't see this discussed very often is actually
a discussion Ste called and they cause a mere the people
if you ask the question who cares who cares about us
who do we care about with the organization we work with who were the
organization to provide things to us and receive things from us
who many organizations that govern our control what we're allowed to do and not
do
those external relationships absolutely critical
and I find it spied quite interesting that a lot of people do not talk about
the external part in the world very much they talk a lot about the inside
but there's no criteria to judge what's a good architecture was not a good
architecture
unless we know why we're doing what we're doing who we doing it for
and who were interacting with provides the context
everything and what we're gonna see is that the stakeholders are also the basis
for determining
even what your processes are we'll define a a business process is something
that starts with an outside
organization or person and goes all the way through
what our organization does writing delivers results back to them its it has
nothing to do with your organization chart as we miss you just a moment
so in a talk about the stakeholders rushing to talk a lot about the concept
outcomes on quite often when we talk about the work that we're doing we talk
about the outputs
designing the right steps in order to get the outputs we often don't think
about while
who what to the these people who care what do they care about
what's important to them we have to start without a move back in is not just
about
our workflows it's about creating value for outside organizations and people
and so as I said just a moment ago this take orders well she will
will provide the basis for a business processes bill also does business
processes will provide the basis for our
our management system which is up based upon our measurement system
things we can't define what are the units at work
have a very difficult time defining what measurements we should have
and that that doesn't mean you don't have measurements organizations ago lots
measurements
but the question is are they useful from from making the right management
decisions
and so we we use the business processes as the glue which also like together
on and hysteria said just a few moments ago
that one of the key things we need to do it at this is to define
what we should be working on and what should be pushed
from a beach the second to the third year where our priorities
so the business architecture should not only be
syriza artifacts in and nice thing sitting in a modeling tool
they also need to be the basis for making the decision about where to
invest
and where to put scarce resources scarce
are scarce resource is going to be not even the money
because if the executives want to find the money
they've always had a hidden away somewhere right how many times you've
heard
all is no budget no budget no budget but then the president of the company said
wants to do something
and all of a sudden magically some budget shows up
it's always there somewhere but the scarcity source
is us Ste I
the people we have it it our ability to be able to make those changes have we're
the scarce resource
and and so we need optimize that allocation that
so and these are the things i wanna talk about and course
I also have to talk about capabilities because this is a a very hot word
in the business architecture space these days everyone's talking about
capabilities
now say a little bit about that but I'll try to avoid
the at the the massive arguments that are happening around what does that word
mean
okay hopefully copy give you something which might be helpful okay
so this let's get started on
as we said earlier we talked about this is architecture we talked about
this analysis we talked about this is processes
and I'm just gonna use the the PP chance pyramid
which says is work we do at the enterprise level we we talk about how
all the pieces fit
this work we do and processed by process level that is how to get a piece of work
done for
for for a good result and how to improve those prostheses
and is also work we do at the implementation level at the bottom which
says
how do we make as you get this in and get it working how do we develop the
system's how do we change the people
we have the right organizations so on she put in place
so these three levels are actually quite important but typically what we've seen
is
different roles at different levels so for example
at the enterprise level we'd normally would see that the people would
typically
historically we do this would be business executives
on at the top of the organization reporting to the Board of Directors in
the management board
on they would be people who are worth looking at this is performance
more more we're seeing people following in tracking performance scorecards and
dashboards and things such as that
on and quite quite often we have the business strategy people as well as I
wasn't organization doing business strategy
and so these are the people who traditionally we do this
and then as a result that they would throw it over the wall
to all of us and they will with we pick it up to say
this is fantastic I wonder what this means for me
especially the front line workers you wear you know
they read these things and they really don't know all Howard
how it should affect their job especially as you go down the
organization
how does that gets translated down so but the strategy is important but you
have to turn into something more than that but but isn't it
classic people to do this on so we would actually argue that we need
that good architecture is actually party strategy and not just a follow on from
straight
a good architecture actually helped form your strategy make it a better strategy
answer
cycles all the time on now the next level down
the people doing the business process work I usually
I have this type of background they may be industrial engineers like myself
learn to do optimization in factories and
and physical for the physical world but now it's interesting
in the the University I went to the people who are graduating from and
industrial engineering and now working in banks insurance companies
government agencies it did not just doing and the physical space anymore
they're they're going to a lot of other areas
process improvement people the classic process improvement people which has
been around for 100 years
on things like Six Sigma and lean
tend to work at this level and with all due respect everybody working in Six
Sigma and Lean
Six Sigma and Lean is not strategy you need strategy no channel what
you need to what waste is waste and what things to eliminate
you need that context and know if you really look at
the two good examples at Six Sigma in the world
everybody points to where it all came from people who say on Motorola
developed Six Sigma
on and but then we look at Motorola
help them in some parts the organization but in other parts it did not help them
at all
I G which is the wrong application the wrong tool at the wrong time
on but really work well in general electric and that's really where it all
came
comes from it but here's my general elections is fantastic organisation
to great great work Six Sigma but why did it work at GE
I would contend is because Jack Welch
the person running the whole organization made it part every
executives Performance Plan
to have done Six Sigma work and made a part of the management system
and not just part of a technique to make some improvements so you need
so the post he sings working together by the way should also say that
I did I I discovered a article a couple years ago
looking through all this an article was published in 1935
and the name in the article was 36
so maybe we've come a long way or me this is not so new after all
okay so pick you need to do things the business process level
and these are the types of people would normally see their on
I'm not gonna jump down to this from moment the we get down to implementation
but have business system designers training specialists
people who write procedures and job and and job descriptions
things such as that project managers those are the rules you tip
would see their and in traditionally
maybe not today Catholic the thing is Kathleen gets to speak after me so she
can
she can refute all the things I've said but anyway
but basically what we chip have found is the
the traditional business list was more focus on requirements
and basically bridging the gap from the process level
down to the implementation to make sure that that that that translation happen
particularly well
so I think we would argue today that role is widening
up at the still life people whose main role is to do that type work so
so there are roles here and but really what we're saying here's that
the are the architecture which should drive all of that now I'm gonna go on a
slightly different dimension
the I look over here people like organizational designers that supposed
to be like
one big thing here have had to look at all levels
that had to look and say once this has what's happening at the top and how to
implement that down in your
and organization structure I'm
true enterprise architects
Alexander with pride hopefully support me on this true enterprise architect did
not
just look at the IT IT world but a lot of people who call themselves Enterprise
Architect are actually focusing more on the technology than they are and
everything else
that work Enterprise is an important word so
we should combine all that with people have been calling itself
business process architects we build the process architecture diagram
on they also had up an important part to
but I think what is true is on this particular page
everybody is trying to go wider everyone is trying to go deeper
everyone is trying to take up basically taken a bigger part in the space
and I really do believe that someday this is all going to merge together and
it will all make a lot more sense now maybe long after
I've retired which which may be that long I don't know
but a it might be a long long time from now but we are definitely moving in that
direction
where everyone is expanding into everybody else's space and all
arguing over their point of view on that space I'm going to try to show today
is that a good architecture actually
encompasses all of that we can all take advantage of that we still need to have
specializations and things like business rules
information management Technology Manager those are still required
but they all fit with each other as opposed to being separate
from one another so what is a business architect
really good question because everybody in here is saying
we're doing business architecture okay everyone is saying that Sosa
a good opportunity for you hopefully so let's get right back to that the
foundation the fundamentals
on we say business architecture like us with that
understand what we mean by business by the way every anybody hear from
government
you are in business you're still in business it's okay
you still have a service to provide you still have a budget
you still get judged by by the the world that you're in
and you have to do two transformations of things into other things
so it still exists okay so basically then with
that the three main stakeholders we would contend
that will work for which we get outcomes a value results which are important that
is
are the owners of the organization a few in the private sector that's easier
because the shareholders and money who've people invested their money into
the business
on there's the product or service recipients
the people actually receive all the good things you do
other on the the physical products alright the actual services interact
with them on a regular basis
or it could be society in general I mean some other governmental things we do
a basic benefit society overall I mean
people are are safer at work social service programs are provided that's
good for everybody in the long run
okay these are the recipients but these recipients
are not the only people who care a lot of other people care too
so for example the staff who work in organizations care
about not just to get a paycheck I
really believe the people go to work every day wanting to do a good job
they don't dollars say haha fantastic I'm gonna go in
going to work today and do a terrible job for my customers
even the singer ever feel like sometimes the doing that
I'm but I II what I would say is I would blame the process not the people
right this get that figured out first their suppliers to organizations
services or products again
they care because they're dependent upon us to be successful for themselves to be
successful
and the courses regulatory bodies who govern our control
what we're doing they also care and by the way
one thing we know the regulatory agencies care about us
then we care about them
because won the last thing you want to do is lose your ability to run your
business because you
violated health and safety or financial regulation or environmental issues as
well
so these are all important things and the general community the local
community where your where your
where your centered on is lotsa lotsa
lot organizations with who are big employers in a small space
and a very critical to the community area so
we have to consider all of these in going forward
now in every and every one of these cases we asked two questions
are we doing the right things
I will these questions have been around for a long long time
per thousands of years are we doing the right things
I we producing products and services which solve a problem
or meet in need are we doing those
and then once we once we figure are we doing the right things
are we doing them in the best way we can
21 wanted me to talk when just a moment is doing things in the best we can
is not useful if you doing the wrong things
and a lot organization i doing the wrong things very well
and so we can have to find the right combinations is very very important
to get back to water this is all about in the first place he has to your answer
specific answers to these questions
so external cuts take orders will always what results
I mean honestly they really don't care about your processes
they really really don't care about your organization chart
day really don't care about your database management systems
they really don't care if you bought or call or you buy ASAP
you know though those are completely irrelevant to them they just want the
result
right so for them is this big box and they're sitting on the outside
seeing what's going in and then hopefully
not having to see inside the box out this often doesn't happen right
I mean I have a as story in my my own experience
you may ask everybody dishonest a few I'd ask everybody
what are your story we all have the stories
situation about a year ago when I was flying
from Vancouver where I live in Canada I to Rio
in in Brazil and
so when you when you go we live in Canada it's a very big country
have to fly three thousand kilometers to Toronto
to get the flight to Sao Paulo
to get the flight to real okay you see the problem coming already right said
you know what it's like to see you have a connection you gonna have trouble
in the airline business to go directly it's fantastic est
what are the challenges you have in this country the office of the coast or
something or somewhere else in order to get where you're going some
sometimes so so I I got on the plane to Vancouver
everything and they gave me my boarding passes for all the other other other
flight even though some three different airlines
on got to Toronto got on a plane at 11:55
in the evening I and we're a little bit
late pulling out because there was a bit of a problem on
that finally said yeah I think we're ready to go so about
like site 12:20 or something like that we polled
out and dances got about 100 meters out
we stopped and the pilot said
I think we have a problem I'm
so way to go back in but don't get off the plane
because this is the second be fixed really really quickly by the way learn
never trust what the pilot says
its whole so will be with Texas quickly make this is gonna come over Texas so
I about 1 o'clock they said well we've put good we fix now
we leave so we pull out again another 100 meters
and we stopped and
this is all we have we have another problems a different problem this time
also it's okay so them we can have to go back into the gate
don't get off the plane okay fantastic
so didn't get off the plane another 45 minutes they said we think we're ready
to go
and we pulled out for the third time 100 meters and he said
we have another problem but maintenance is gonna come to the plane so we did you
can't get off the plane
so they came out is something then the as about
2 o'clock in the morning just after two o'clock in the morning he said
we can't fix it so we're gonna go back in
and we're gonna have to go tomorrow not today
okay so now its overnight and so we went back in and they said
stay here while we find someone from the airline
to come and talk to you now the realized 2 o'clock in the morning there are not
many people from the airline around the airport
so they had to find someone who then we waited another half an hour
they finally came over and said it's okay we're gonna leave at nine o'clock
tomorrow morning
but don't worry we're going to give you a hotel to stay in
but first a ball we had we have to you have to meet us
in the in the lobby area the greedy area up the
airport and then you have to register your name and will give you a coupon
for hotel was okay fine they said
however we r actually considered to be international territory now
so in order for you to get back to that lobby you have to fill it immigration
form
to come back through Canada even though you never left
so them all this and lined up Immigration and Customs
declaring we did how wake is it what was your source
washer your starting point your trip all was right here what do I put down
how long you've been gone was three hours no I think I anyway I'm still here
and so we had to do ours and we had to be cleared by the immigration people not
to get through
then we got to the lobby and they're about just the big plane so that bite
250 people all lined up and we had to register one at a time in order to get a
coupon for the hotel
so fantastic so so then we had to get on on the bus
to go to the hotel and by then several buses are gone already
we got to the hotel and guess how many people were checking
chechyan the guests a2 o'clock or three o'clock in the morning
guess how many people you know the answer one
a nappers it was this is not their main job they were the auditors and for the
night
so so so there was a lineup way outside and
and the we work out I was like why we back in the lineup
we did the calculation and we determined that
the only reason the line was moving is because people were giving up and
leaving the line
so I decided this is not gonna work so I looked around the hotel lobby found a
chair
and got in the chair and I was like I the next the next morning was walking
around like this because
result paralyzed on one side got nature slept there for a few hours
then had to go back had to check in again
finally got on the plane at nine o'clock in the morning
and we and by the way by this point I'd already used up my emergency underwear
supply which I always carry with me
right because I know this is gonna happen already got so then
on be got on the plane flu
to real and as I E
as the plane lands in the door open some became I said
will mister Roger problem please identify himself at the gate now that's
never a good sign
so went up to the front door and he said i sorry mister built in but your luggage
didn't make it
so how can my luggage not make a I mean this was here last night
this as well a buncha people got off the planes we had to pull all the luggage of
the plane
and put it back on the but I guess yours got confused
miss it but don't worry we're gonna give you some money to buy some clothes
so that they said week I supply Cup really important meetings actually
meeting with government ministers that
day so this and where you can buy the clothes
this will give you three hundred dollars in by a close I can't buy
jacket attire suit sure for three hundred dollars and they said
sure you can I said no maybe you can but i cant
and then %uh so then of course but by the time all this happen
I miss my flight connection had to go on another airline
which didn't cheat meal as well as my other one I finally got it was 20 for
about 24 hours later I finally got my luggage
so the point there is why's that a process
know what as far as each one of these those people are concerned he wasn't as
far as
I was concerned it was process
it starts from me all around it comes back to me
and so I would suggest to you if you want to find out how this works become
your own customer
in all not just the happy path but the but the exception have to see what it's
like in CP able to do it
so I'd I know their process is now on I shouldn't have to know their processes
this is the point
right so basically stakeholders don't care so
those in the end we call the ends the means to the inside the box
so what do we have to have insights O even though the customers don't care
about the inside the box
we have to care about the inside the box we have to make sure that everything
works
and and it's all connected and it's not so architecture must include the
connections to
to deliver the results at the end cell and somebody with me last couple days
know the answer to all this
widest what is this all about it's all about taking
your scarce resources and your money building a new solution
getting to the point where you can implemented
have it ready hopefully
I mean we've I'm sure we've all seen situations where
you think you've got to the point we can implement it and then
you find lots of problems and maybe it never
gets implemented every country has the stories
is hundreds of millions euros are spent and never gets
implemented writer without ever ever happen here
yeah I think so happens everywhere right you seen them
right in Simsbury Singh and so it the situation i've seen
I'll is when this happens
the big issue is not the cost up the project
the big issue is what you cannot do that you should have been able to do in the
business
you may be losing customers you may be losing business you have no
no ability to provide the product to that service
what you losing is your customers and you your credibility is suffering in the
long run it's more than the money would have cautioned implement the solution
so that's the one thing we look for now and then in addition that
one site once I start to deliver the value hopefully
it was a good idea and I get my money back
after that point I'm I actually earned value you could actually say that this
is actually
dollars or Euros or whatever you wanna whatever you want account
but you basically can earn your money back you can earn
value for someone day so for the shareholders are or the
are the owners is their point of view is very simple one
green on the page your only job
your only job is to help the organization
look more green on the page
okay cell when you
get to talk to the chief executive officer
don't go in with all kinds of flow charts and diagrams you go any say
this is how we put more green on the page if you invest in this
that's the only thing they're interested
okay so they don't care about your technology platform they don't care
about your your big implementation daycare
are we going to deliver against our strategy and that's the language we have
to talk in
so we have to understand what that is in order to start to develop a good
architecture
so what choices do we have going up for
what's going down its easy you gotta drive down the cost always
even if no one ask for you gotta bring it down is a key issue
what you have to pay to do as well you have to
on also make sure we can do it better if we do it better with get more return
which will sell more and more people will be happy with that
look at that way those two other this to other directions we can go as well
one of them is we can actually deliver that solution faster
sooner one and I would contend very strongly
even though it almost seems counterintuitive that
if you a good architecture and a good definition process ease
is going to allow you to get there soon even know people say
we don't have time for architecture this will do if you've heard this
we'll do that next time but right now
we've got a lot of things to do we have did deliver this result as fast as
possible so
will architected later you know what
you never architected later because the next time
no one wants to pay for that extra work to put together the overall framework
to show off how all the pieces fit together but now what happens next time
next time I've got this very well define specific solution
which I cannot change as if it's something else not have
have redundancy same same information showing up in two places
and now if anything changes and updates two places identical to figure out
well the places that information as usual israel's EU's
in its its just a mess so good architecture
actually allows you to get your solutions to market
faster use these days that the speed to market is as
actually critical critical issue so
and if the last one of these is whatever I do I have to design it to be more
flexible more adaptable more easily changeable
which starts with just knowing where things are
now did I don't in this country there was a big issue around the year 2000
with the issue like dates being an old systems and not being able to
be very very scared that none of your systems would work
it this is a a big big issue in city in North America
and UK Germany in places like that
I at the big issue there was wasn't fixing the dates
that was easy the big issue was
being afraid that you missed some not being able to identify
the one so the risk up missing one could be HUGE you don't know 90s running are
you systems it is gonna fail
so there was a risk issue these days
where's your risk risk is you don't know what the business rules are
you don't you wanna change a policy or rule you don't even know where they are
there
deep inside the coding up the system's
as opposed to saying I got my process is defined here
I got my rules defined here and
I know which processes use which rules and which rules used in which processes
so a good architectural say wanna change this rule these are all the places you
have to go
in thats in the architecture architecture structure
those are the types of things that we're trying to put in place which then
allows us to be more flexible my roots are separate from my process
I can actually update the rules without going in deep into my process colder
logic
and so on and its technologies to do that for us today this is one my
favorite favorite diagrams
this is real this is my real bank
and this bank basically said we think we can keep track of these are all things
we need to keep track of
and we said well ya was not going to work
he said yeah it'll work mission we don't think so so is OK
why do you let us draw the picture and show it to you
and then you tell us what you think and so
we do this picture and they said I'll
not gonna work school course is not going to work
because by change anything in all this mess I don't know what else is affected
by the change
and and and time to market is all affected by
by whether or not you know if I change one thing
effect something else what are all things I have to do it I don't change
the other thing
this is not gonna work right it's real it's real issue so what we would say is
that we deal with this organization we said
the business processes and natural organizer everything else
the rules are used in a process the information is updated process the
people work in the process the technology applies to the process
so the magic thing about process is its ability to organize things
so it's it's going to be a critical part of on
up your business capabilities a critical part love your business processes and so
on
so I'll week we now uses to
with got organizations a is this which one on on on on okay fine
now we can talk right so but what we need to be able to do
okay so what is the logic behind this
this is pressures we need to know the outside pressures the
stakeholders in the relationships you need to know
the business strategy you need to know on your business processes need to be
defined and structured organized
in a way where there's no gaps between them and also no overlaps
among either this is performance how do I measure things well you know what if I
have everything else I can measure my strategy at I can measure my process the
second measure my relationships
I can build the measurement system around the architecture
on and business capabilities my ability to get things done
might be wanting to define I wanna do this business process but then the
question are you able to perform that process are you able to deliver the
results organization looking for
and ultimately have to change things the business transformation this is a
general logic that we can work with
okay sewed action to briefly go to somebody's
on the classic thing here we we call we call this thing steeple
which stands for social technological
economic environmental political legal these are usually the
the things that come at us i mean there are
legal changes all the time right especially I mention this country must
be
released noticed a lot since she joined the EU
lots of new rules not so new lots a new policies things that you
you cannot say all all that that's nice but we're not gonna do that
not so you have to do it you're stuck with it and you have two basic basic
basically be able to handle all those issues on there are political issues
governments change
part do parties come in and start running things which are quite different
in meanie she's all that all the time in we see all-time in Canada between
Moore Ave left-leaning party versus the right-leaning party and when the swap
over
then a lot a lot of the the the things really able to do in in
in in the world a change right so on
economic you know we've had all kinds of issues it seems like
maybe we're slowly crawling out of that mess
but a lot of people are really sure about that either me so it's you really
know it's is in a
go right back into the mess again all we can to get better so that a lot of
uncertainty around some of these outside pressures but you need to talk about
because whatever you build ideally whatever you build
will allow you to accommodate things getting worse
or to accommodate things getting better so the the solution
should not be you put in place should not just be four
an assumption which may or may not be true
because it probably not going to be true in its gonna go some way
better or worse right so we need to stick think about all these different
pressures and so on
on message it like I thick and that the social ones on
we look at a country like like Canada whereas and
more aging population it's very different than a country like Brazil
where lotsa lotsa young people and
so you find you know you have to sort of E
have to accommodate what the social change is going to be
on you have to understand what but the pressures are going to be there so
understand week just just understand it so we can make sure that whatever we
bill disgusted
I talked a bit about stakeholders and slotted different types as customers
this
and this customers of the customers which I would call consumers
no if you sell products into it into a a
into a store the store selling products to their customers but your advertising
to their customers
sold this is very interesting senate relationships there
that have to be have to be looked after on
now in addition to that we have things like suppliers and shareholders and
regulatory bodies
and so on including employees including unions
and is a lot of different interest and a lot of these interests will be in
conflict
soak the issue then is we don't understand the complex
and figure out what the rights right solution is first before we start
architecting before we start designing
and before we start implementing these issues will
these issues will hit you at some point but what you don't want you don't want
to hit you when you implement a solution you want to hit them
architecture time you want it basically deal with them early
so you can have I've got have to fight at the beginning and have it at the end
you know what gonna have it rather have a girl eats one my principles
if you have an issue have an early
don't wait till the end okay because you all in their right to me this is Alice
know this all the time that
that you have to figure that out so each one of those stakeholders
we have to ask yourself the question what do we exchange within what products
and services to give them and get
get from them on and I lost the right things
we on this is this is a critical thing to me wanted the needs and expectations
of those people what to expect from us
what any really need I understanding that is really key because that's going
to define what
outcomes we gonna drive towards now the question is how we measure
our Customer Relationship I went to measure things like
percentage of sales we get from them on
we make with them rather than with them buying from a competitor's on the mic
market share
wallet share customer satisfaction
knows lots lots and measures for you you need to figure out how you measure those
relationships
and what targets you want to hit know what improvements wanna make what
objectives wanna hit
from now or two years down the road to increase my market share
or increase my customer satisfaction or reduce my my price to them
you need you need to figure this out so that you know what to do in your art
architectural framework these are all critical factors for going forward
so doing it focus on one thing we're seeing
in the world right now as a very very big trend towards this
discard outcome management as a difference in the output in the outcome
opus the physical thing you produce the outcome is
whether or not people are actually having their needs met
bye bye bye what we doing so it's a different city in the end
and the means so really what would say here is that
if you are if your processes and practices
are the best in the world it doesn't necessarily mean you're solving the
right problem
right and soul you really do need to understand the
and up to things that are valued by the outside world
so both you need both but it starts with this
right starts with this one another point
just because she produced nice output
which has all the right format all the rights standards all the right quality
consistency reliability every time you do it comes up the same way
it doesn't me that you actually have
achieved business outcome no business outcome is the result of all that
right so you really need to understand and
and just because you've been very good on efficiency and quality
does not mean you've actually met anyone's needs
so this just three different views at the same thing and ultimately hear what
this really says
is that defining the results
is executive responsibility is the leaders of the Organization
should be redefined as a result so you need to have the conversation
architecturally
with them before you start to figure out
what systems well I peeled what what what skills I need
what train am gonna run you need to know
what does success look like by really apologize for common sense on this but
this is not practiced consistently
we we get caught up in the the way we do things
and we don't focus enough on what is the result
that comes out of it and people would disagree I'd rather have to fight early
as we just set
so these outcomes at the stake or the level what is it the customers value
what is it that supplies value what our staff value about working here
understanding that is gonna push us to
strategic outcomes which is a few statements about the whole direction the
organization
each process will have an outcome as well
understanding the staples is a critical part is you don't see this much in
architecture today and I think it's really really critical
you have to connect these things up so
this just an example I love what we might see buying up
so we have a vision the bank will gradually go in size
earning steady profit bahbah and I consumer services chain
will help grow the bank by increasing the number of consumers with accounts
and also by increasing number of accounts for consumer that's
how we want to do it that's what I success looks like how we articulate
that more specifically
well we know it got there if we've increased income
we know what get there reproduce the error rate we know we'll get there if we
sustained
the correctness all the things that we do we know we'll get there as long as
the timing
is is on it on time every single day
and maybe we see each social trend
up %uh working much more toward social media smart phones internet
soul we also know we can have to step up in that particular space in order to be
successful and so on wanna find these things we
reason show start here as we call it the North Star
and the North Star is our fixed navigation point but get your navigation
point
before you get into you into you architecture before you get into you the
analysis
really what you doing part in this too is to figure
what kind of organization are you they all about product leadership
relationship with your customers operational excellence now you have to
be good enough but all of them
but one's gonna lead the way we had been a fun over the last
on Friday and Saturday we're at a training class
we actually picked an example caught a pop so everybody each other each other
teams had a part
and we gave them a value propositions okay now if you are the
lower-cost operational excellence pop what would that look like
if you're the fast service pop what that looks like
now but if you with the customer intimate pop what that look the same
and everybody agreed absolutely not if you're the low-cost pop
you not gon have somebody come in the front door be greedy really nicely have
lotsa conversations were they being served
they can usually to get me a beer fast
is very different than 10 talk to me it's a nice social place when I come
here my friends are here
I know I can have a good discussion and chat the chairs a comfortable
I we had another one called the the the innovative
up the unit innovative pop had 100 beers
and there's people there really understand where the beer came from what
kinda hops were used
in the beer and and every months there was a special like right now will be the
only
October a special in the pub so the value proposition
changes your outcomes it changes
your processes it changes your systems it changes your physical environment
this is a big deal and organizations don't stop and think
and everybody you going to ask people to see yeah all three
you know what Apple is all that product leadership right
was that means they new products new products new products
all the time right on something like wal-mart which is a
a retailer and big part of our largest employer in the world
it look at it says say first letters at the logo's save money
guess what operational excellence cheap easy
on but you we don't go to are you don't go to Walmart expected to know who you
are
in so you have to pay your your proposition
because is going to define what style you can use is gonna tell me what
processes I need
is can it basically take my needs and expectations and turn them into my
results outcomes
still need to input process output but basically
I start I don't Jesse process as activities
I see process ease as means of creating value
which means you have to understand what the value is this is very very different
point of view
and what a lot of organizations have been doing so I have to say meet their
needs
meet your expectations so
this just that come inside with this know what this really says use the bank
exam
is this all the stakeholders sitting around the outside
that they have a lot of interactions with us every stakeholder
for every stakeholder we can define what the process is our
all the things I do with customers were all the things I do with regulatory
bodies
all the things I do were with
are on employees so I can define the processes
inside by starting with the outside and the important thing about this
is that those processes have nothing
to do with your organization chart
the customers don't care about your organization chart and it's something
houses across the organization they really don't care it's up to you just
figure that out and make sure we deliver the right
right results some accents you can we organized 10
times but your process architecture
will not change
what we typically do we look at the org chart and say our discovery
they've got some processes they've got some prices they've got some crosses
you know what the customer doesn't care they got a connect together
actually have to start with the outside and then look in always
outside looking in and then that way you get processes which are stable and will
last a long time for you
it just how you allocate resources to it my change organizationally
now in addition to that I have to pass to do with my products and services
and I have to have process to deal with my is is resources so for example
all the process manage the equipment facilities
the supplies the financial resources like this is a bank
yeah I mean you gonna have to make manage your Treasury assets to make sure
you got the right amount of cash
available to you when you need it to to to place lawns and
as you collecting money and giving money if the man is that as an asset
right so is a lot of different things we have to manage
if you take industry ways stakeholders products and services
all the internal resources then you'll get a really good architecture
spaced on that stuff and I'm not gonna go sit in detail but basically what
you'll find out his
then I can defy my core business in terms of these things I can define
the prostate used to manage manage the business I can to find them
the process need to support the business so this architecture will
allows to support those things together
every process in the architecture also has its outcomes it meets the needs and
expectations
this is really critical that when you look at the business process you can see
asked a question
what are the outcomes you want to deliver against how you know what they
are
look at the process eased follow
you push something out who receives it and is it working for them
is it helping them if you sort of push one to the next to the next to the next
next you start at the end up the chain and look backwards
you'll find the results that you need as opposed to
we see see a lot of the time we see organizations take a process and the
only look at it from there own point of view
we're working with the bank right now and which begin with mortgages
like this is mortgages are very very important product for a bank because
if you have a a mortgage with the bank than the comprise sell you a lot about
the services
is to call an anchor product right so in this particular case is three parts the
organization involved
each have this they fairly well lined up the two parts
up the overall process with people on
in the in the offices in the branches were talking to customers
taking applications for loans and making of feel good about the wonderful things
the bank can do
they then go through an application process and after he goes to the
automated engine
which which she rejects a lot of people's first time round
if it's rejected is pushed out to a and underwriting group
con adjudication group and they look at it and try to find ways to make it work
unending after all that there's a lot of up
application paperwork and documents have to manage
in a back office functions we find a way
to do this so there's less work for the lender frontline
less work for the adjudicator the the underwriters but more work
for the people in the back office and so
and came out that there would be something like fifty more people it's a
big national back but
but 50 more people in the back office al
like thousands less people
for the rest of the rest the process and he got rejected
the change got rejected why because the people in the back of it said
and this is true they said we're not gonna go for this
because it will be more work for my people
okay cell not that particular issue there's
where is the value proposition where what is the outcome of all this
basically it was nobody was thinking about how
everything work together everybody's thinking about what their party
organizations doing
and the poor customer was not getting the service
and the bank was losing customers but we were keeping their people happy
see that you have to balance all this the stuff of in it
becomes a bit have a tricky issue so
we always look a who takes a result external stakeholders
or the downstream processes and you know I wanna find
the the perfect result and say how can I best pipe
by that perfect result so when we build up process architecture
its is abstracted what that really means is that
in the process architecture name we do not say how the process is done
we would never say branch
kiosk online
so the process doesn't say the internet process it says
the sell mortgage process just because it could be out
internet through pension could be done thousand different ways keep the name
the mechanism out out up the process name
should never say where it's done it should never say what system
we never called the SAP process
it's a process to do some work which uses SAP to get self-doubt
okay and so basically also not say when it's done so
keep it very very pure and simple if I got this I can build the measurement
system
I can build for every process how how effective is it doesn't meet the needs
of people
i cant to chairman is a consistent is repeatable is
high-quality salat the standards that we typically would follow
we can actually measure in terms of quality so I can measure both those
things
I can also measure how well we use our resources the efficiency measure
and I can also measure which i think is a important new point of view
how adaptable is that solution how adaptable
us how easy is going to be to change how well
one good thing how well-trained are the people who work in that process and
could lead to a different job easily
welcome the only do that job and if they change the process we're in big trouble
right that make sense but sometimes by the way that's covered by union
agreement
you wanna make a change the process you get two years in negotiation with the
union or to make the change
so you have to consider how adaptable how easily can you do something else
so we think these four measures are really good process measures
by doing the right thing effective my doing
in the right way efficient my meeting all the standards are supposed to meet
the quality levels
and how and my designing it in a way I can easily change it
to have to design for the change that's why you need architecture
to allow that that design change to really happen
what we're trying to do here is combines somehow
the traditional what is now traditional balanced scorecard
if you see the balanced scorecard measures a Finnish finance financial
customer
internal process and learning and growth China bounce those two things that
different points of view
and the challenges that if you're at the top but this
the very whole organization this something called the internal process
measures
which is your process architecture but as you start to go into the details this
process
hierarchy maybe very different than your organizational hierarchy
and the challenges if I measure the process
three levels down in the organization I'm getting it's a process
I'm not getting not get his process chine to get these two things lined up
and trying to find accountability
for those measures and get them in sick it's very difficult
but I the weak-kneed architect that as well and try to figure that out I think
it's all part of the business
architecture so where are we now
basically we know each channel upton's threats
we know the stakeholders we're dealing with we know the strategy the
organization
I me know the business processes this is what we built so far just as
position where we are and so then
now I wanna do I can now put all this together
I can take those intentions a match into our process easy to find out which
process ease
should be changed which processes should just be
continuously improved which was at big change which ones
small changes okay I'll show you an approach where we do that we're gonna
call this the pain and the game
pain and gain just and it it it
if it rhymes in English anyway sure doesn't rhyme with us when you
but ish if you can find something but basically it
rhymes so easy to remember and you've all heard the expression I'd
seven English the you hit all-time no pain no gain
uses the talking about exercise so
but here we talking about how do I determine
what a systematic way is up doing a portfolio of change so the
architecture will lead you to your portfolio management
should lead you to where you opportunities for improvement
so basically then how much is each process
assuming the the first lady's
on the games side we're saying
soon every process is perfect
don't judge it is broken or or or working well just assume for a moment
everything is equally working well which of those processes are the most
important for you
some will be very very important right
and other ones will not be as important
so the process allocating parkings places
to the employees is probably not as important
as the process manufacturing your products he said or
providing new services that make sense mean this US certain executives and i
think is really important
but I'm that the some things are just naturally more important you want
doing all the work well but assume they do that's me the game
the pain says don't worry about how important they are
what's working well what's not working where's the gap
okay so those two things we're gonna bring together so
we put it together will end up with something like this
week we have a very sophisticated way of doing this as well we you can check each
process against the strategic statement but
this is sure the the summary of all of that what it says here is that
mystery look at this we first
each one of these is the is the game
so what it says here is the processes that moved to the right hand side
other ones which help the North Star the most what that says
those processes you have to be the best in the world
you those are the prices that make you different than everybody else
if you do is exceptionally well you will not be the same as everybody else in
your marketplace
so you wanna be recognized for those things
there's other processes here where you have to be in it
parity you have to be as good as everybody else
but that if you're better it's not gonna make you
any different nobody will value being better
they will notice if you're worse
so we this is where best practices best practices are down the middle
a best practice were not differentiate you from someone else she is copping
what everybody else is doing
so what you want what I want to have theirs I want to make sure that
I am a differentiating where need to differentiate
and so you need to figure that out by the way this comes back to value
propositions well if you
your value proposition Israel differentiate and
and the third ones this is you know you just have to be sufficient good enough
and that's again that allocating parking spaces to the employees
mean that I would put all my money into is the world's best process for
allocating parking spaces
right does that make sense just is not is not your Corbis
so I want to find out what those things are and thence
so take highest gain goes in
this direction the highest pain goes in this direction says
these guys here have a large performance gap
these guys down here are working well
relative to all the others and we for we force a third thirty-third
and a thirty 30 search what it does it now says
where do I spend my money I spend my money
over here because
I've got big pain big gap and they're important
down here they're not important but they work well thats ida
don't understand why that happens that but
but this is an interesting one up here right what do you do about that
it's broken source not working well but if i fix
if I had to choose between
take these things off here i'd to choose between this one
and this one way to get more from my money
it's over there okay this is really really quite that
now I'm using my architecture in order to come up with
a really good portfolio change and it's not just projects
requested by departmental managers say
and we had this very very sleepy Finance Group
they got three million dollars for be changed last year and now they think
they should have three million dollars every year
okay so on it know it all goes back to the
back to the beginning right back to the bases so these guys over here
you going to do I'm gonna give them continuous improvement money
on but I won't give in the big budgets for these guys up
to that one so what are we saying it the performance gap
means be capability
it by effect far off %uh performs usually means more things have to change
it's going to be a little hard as well just tell the stories in nineteen
you get access to these materials but maybe not this one
this anyone seen this before this is the Winchester house in
San Jose Calif on
and it's like pretty amazing looking place right
so what happens here the Winchester house
about 160 rooms 24,000 square feet or
2400 box in the square meters
a big banks traction in nineteen 1884
to thirty-eight years to build I think us 5.5 million dollars which day would
be 165 million
to build okay no blueprints
no architect and the plane was work every single day
always working on something are all the time 10
on and that best talent went into this to building this place
at lots a leading edge functionality and that I even
the even file for received three patents
on buildings building approaches for this particular house
K lotsa lotsa new ideas but
no architecture which mean orchestration on
13 stairways that go to know hit like here
30 stairways go to know where on
there is 65 doorways which went to blank walls
on 24 skylights to stop that a floor above
I and basically chimneys to start in the basement
plus four floors and its top two feet shorter the roof
but this is what happened aid
this sounds a lot like what we do in systems development
because we should have been quite often a chemical change request changer guess
change
Press so without an architecture you gonna get this kinda stuff right
and atop its not easily easy to change all this
right so we want to avoid that kinda scenario so what we're trying to do is
pull together
something which we did actually looking to find as a capability
this is a hexagon I come up with a number of years ago that said
what too busy people care about they care about performance what delivers
performance
the business process steps I can measure the business process
measure how long does it take how much does it cost how satisfied
I people with the result on
I can measure the heirs and so i cant measure a process
I cannot measure a piece of software
unless I know the processes it works on
which had this is measures need to have the business measures
so that's going to be an important issue but this business process requires some
strategy
and should fit with the strategy or maybe
when you're doing it should go back and say why don't we change our strategy
it also requires you to know the policies in the rules
which are in place on it requires you to be able to take that rule
and say that rule this rule is used in this process
allows it shouldn't encourage me to know where is the work done
organization who does what part of the process roles responsibilities and
incentives and
and how we do encourage people to deliver the right results
in a lotta processes there there's a physically physical side to
in some is not so much really depends on your business I'm
we have we have customers that work in the
oil business in Canada a and Canada has
people don't realizes Canada is the largest provider of oil to the United
States in the world more than Saudi Arabia more than anybody else
but our oil comes from oilsands
it's not just that we don't stick a pipe in the ground and watch it come out
we you actually have to go in and dig it up
take it to a factory extract the oil under the sand
and then refine it from there to speak expensive oil
on those manufacture facilities and mining facilities
actually critical so fit their process eased physical
physical aspect of the the business
is a critical part what they're doing so if you doing
heavy industry you doing oil and gas
utilities its it's a big deal
to pull all that stuff together
on now for some other people not so much so not everything's in play all the time
only somebody's things are relevant to you the technology for most this is
important
the software services the applications the the
resort earp programs and so on and the last song inside
here's the human capital are the people
what competencies to need for that process to work
in order to deliver that performance what capacity do we have enough
we seen this happen a lot of cases where on
the the product people are actually quite competent but they're overloaded
with work
and its very very difficult for them to
to be successful because they just got too much to do
right or wanted the other big questions here's
wise to motivation what is the culture of the organization
and do the really ID
ID for example they measured on the same things
the process is trying to deliver the measure something else
we see this all the time employees
I measured by their boss on their annual performance plan
and that's actually contradictory
compared to where the process is trying to go so
all the organizations have the measures have their staff
people report manager but that we do a perfectly good job love
up doing things for a manager but it's not helping the process is actually
hurting the process down the other end
so that misalignment is a big big big issue have
everything else in place but people act stupid
they know how they're being measured and they know at the end of the year when
they're being evaluated and that may be a bonus is
is is sitting on the table that this is going to be the issue
with my banking client right now in Canada on
this is the annual the annual bonus granting season
its really really interesting to watch all the staff
none other none of them will confront their boss
with something stupid at the boss is doing
you know what I think we should stop doing this we should do South
no they'll wait till November in
before they have that discussion because there again they're not too nice to
people so
we would actually claim that you wanted to find what is a capability
we would actually argue a capability of an organization requires
all of this stuff to be working together
so from architecture point of view okay in East all work together
so now you can keep this just a
I you want to the details at this chart a course but really
what you're gonna have to also figure out is for the process ease which are
working here as you go into the details
this process delivers things to hear to hear to hear
on and if any one of these is not working well well it messes this one up
and it messes this one up
mess is this one up so therefore let me fix this
fix that one then I fixed all the others that's what I really mean by looking
downstream
all the time so we really want to make sure that we can do this by the way
I would never ever ever show a chart like this to a management
senior manager or something the business side but you as
analysts need to know wanna go into each these capabilities what's really showing
up there
we've done that CC's be walking with his one on the charts
and thus unlike you know the
exec sitting there to get the two things kick you out
or their or they're gonna fall asleep
one of those two things so but we will need to have that information
so the other thing happens down here getting a bit more
now getting a bit more to the more traditional business analysis
on when we look at any particular process flow we can ask the questions
does this activity add value is important
doesn't flow well is is a good sequence
on are the people trained to do the work properly
are the IT resources the best IT resources
if I have to make decisions based upon business rules
on to have the right rules in the right decision criteria
can I measure the work that's happening as I'm doing it not just
after it's all finished and do have processes which are very much dynamic
processes rather than very fixed
manufacturing stop processes some processes are like
I just a then be then see indeed any I do same way every single time
and other ones based on the case you know you go you go to a hospital
its it's not a predefined sequence it depends on your symptoms
and then and they run some tests and then go do something else it says
a variety of things get pulled in as required serve a different style
processes on and is the quality
acceptable and so on so you really did need to answer
all these questions when you start to get inside the details
what's taking place so just talk a little bit about
what should an adaptable business architecture do for us
it should be redefined business drivers performance results
we should be able to come up with a vision for the organization
and we should also define the strategy for customers suppliers staff and so on
different strategies all come together
so basic out scholars we need understand this strategy
sometimes as architects Matic most times as architects
we are not allowed to to go create the strategy
but we need understand the strategy and define it in a way that can be used
architecturally now
after all that I can then go back to look at my capabilities
all the things I need I process ease my rules
my information management all things and that hexagon
on need to be true considered and we need to make sure that
it is in need from this and it's not available
then we have a gap I can have to change the capability in order to meet
need I gotta start with the need first now so this then
would need to be aligned with with one another
and again if there's a gap we're gonna have to do some projects for change
am build that transmission portfolio up
now one thing we also realize is that
quite often things are dropped right in here from nowhere if they are
they have to chase so sorry just introduces a project right down here
does not come down the normal planning past
and this will happen absolutely will happen
then if that's the case I have to better show when we chips to do it
that it will contribute to our overall strategy
site need to keep these things lines architecture structure
well allow us to have the right decision making process here
now there's just one other thing in the talk about them I'll
a couple questions on I really like disco
from Michelle Menard using force magazine as you're talking about Toyota
never be talks like Taylor the Toyota Production System in
and the source for Leanne and I really was only one other one of the many
things that came out a tide
such a system she said talk to know something you can show people
anything you want to steal it anybody in to see what they're doing did not but
not keeping it private
a protected but if they don't have your culture your organization your ability
they cannot replicate what you do
so I just want to make sure that architecture is understood as being
one other things that we need in order to make all the stuff happen properly
on and you may have seen this other normal mature
maturity curve based upon CMMI capability maturity model
really says is is multiple levels of maturity for an organization
especially around this process is and so on every day releases
down here at the initial level everybody just does whatever they want to do
and somehow magically things get done they get done because good people got
them done
I repeat that hoping that that person back and do it again
or find somebody else who could do it that way its it's a very
free-for-all type of environment but level 2 C's are now desperate people
ways of doing things a good project management
good process i good process improvement methodologies
things like that level 3 says now I get well def
level 3 says this is really where your
architecture starts to cut in prior to that time you not really using an
architecture
we have to define it all a level four is really important it says
I use that performance data I use the Arctic
all the time I keep up-to-date I managed using
the frameworks we built level 5 you know what little five ish is perfection so
Whitson this is only a few companies in the world
really at that level but something to aim for but
what the butt this site is also saying is that every time you come up
a level go from a1 to a2 you're going to have a cultural change
and here I've got five levels in the culture change basically goes something
like this:
take this one below here
people do it because they're told they have to do it is externally driven
you will do this this this this this this and this but above that level
the culture is one where I know I need to do it
I see other people not doing so I coached wanna help them
management and the staff work together much more closely to the is a culture of
internally driven as opposed to external each other
you got to get people to the cultural change to get to the next level
it's really really hard and it and thing is you have to work up there
a bit at a time so I really used is this analogy in states like an elastic band
right now getting hair elastics not to hurt anybody okay on
so basically what it really says is you are here
and maybe my goal is to be in that that corner over there
soul if I wanna code do I try to go all at once
I'm limited by the by the elasticity
are the up the band I can only go this far
they want to deny them poll the culture too I wanna go
yours have did desired place to go on the you pull
maybe now I gotta go over here Nordic I can work around the obstacles but
its Elite Series little steps now that's very different
if your cultural readiness is more elastic so I take this one yet this I
could hear someone with
basically if I said by police are here noted I can go farther more directly
that way
you have to evaluate your culture you have to assess your culture so
even here not gonna get there in one go so you have to think through
how will I make me way up there what resistance to have already
to become more mature so it's going to be a critical thing for us
cell you need a good methodology to do this this just
not not just not to go through this but you ni
you need aim well-defined method
or process for process process for architecture
in order to it build the artifacts and get them into the right framework
and improvement level implementation of course as well
so I missed this is just finishing up now hopefully a book time for a few
questions
on this is a sports car tonight sorta like it a lot
it says here it this is why I think he is
we probably a lot of work ahead of us and assorted like the art did
discussion here if this it business architecture stuff is what I think it is
we do a lot of work ahead of us this is not a project
this is ongoing commitment to changing how we do things in an organization and
it's gonna take
time anyway we have time for a cup for couple questions
we do okay good excellent first probably applause
the speaker
okay so we have a time at least for two questions but please use the microphones
all I do this to happen
this is your time to wake up
just yet with with 270 people it's got to be a question
don't be afraid you can ask
it you can ask it in your language should get a chance that like
can reach in the Sun okay
and so about the business processes sand
the measuring them a it's usually a bit when
you look into theory it's quite easy to figure it out
and im that on good quantitative
performance indicators in there but the its
I always have a big problem with that
qualitative once so I have a question for you
at do you yourself apply the
business process and the total methodology for
for your own meh business and if Seoul
a what the critical performance indicators do you measure
cleric a it
it I one as it could be on oh no that's just for you it's not for me
I so actually one of the things I recommend strongly in terms of rolling
this out
in your own group if for example you have a center of excellence or our
department start with yourself
and then show everybody else you can do it our group we're
we're very small group but we do we do measure things like repeat business
we measure things like customer loyalty customer satisfaction and things
we always ask at the end so some some others more qualitative are softer
measures
on you might think they're hard to get
but each it's a matter of
ask the people who receive the service ask the people who were
who all ask stakeholders just passed them
what did you think did you like it because they may be soft measures
but because they're outside their real
data so on
yeah you need to do that a given exam with a mortgage business
but the bank were working with right now they've all
there are trying to find these measures about the success are
the the mortgage in there damaging things like time to approval
and number percentages a deals that got funded on time and stuff like that
but no lawyer in any of that is anything that says
why don't we wat to two weeks after the mortgage is closed people moved into the
house
why don't we just call them and say how satisfied were you
with the service we provide because if I go online
and i buy aid 5 your ol
product I know I'm gonna get in emailed and asked me how satisfied I was
but I can't even do a home mortgage so let me just
asking people is going to be would be would be my recommendation
and on but but it brings up another key point
when you design your process you will have to design the measurement system
as well is not a separate issue its part but the process design
measure the measure the the performance
and also leave room
for feedback leave room for for people who work on it to say
I think this could be better in this is how this is how to build the improvement
the coaching
and the measurement feedback into your process designs well
so another question if there is one
yes gentlemen here
okay I good
yeah I
well or
all what what I why I would actually say is that that
I don't tend to think a bit as build your whole architecture and then just
maintain
I tend to think about when I showed the pain gain chart
quite often what we'll do it will define those processes and those capabilities
very thin initially would say kilometer wide centimeter deep
but everything is covered but then as we picked the priority ones
will we architect and deeper wanted to make sure we plug it all in so I think
it's a constant journey a building the architecture so that
that's why say if if we see it as a project
then at the end to the project we have to go get maintenance money
babysit ongoing thing I think that's that that's can build can build
but every project should be feeding back feeding back feeding back
on but I would say that at the beginning
you know you you might you might have a t move
something like 345 people but but it involves a lot of people in the business
to have workshops and so on
and after that period of time you know I still gonna have to people not processed
people
no information people know that this is rules
I still need some expertise within my price n urself on
I we think again I would like to have a group
anywhere from four to six people sorry keeping this stuff going especially new
projects are coming along all the time supporting those projects
but but there is a commitment to keep it going and when we sell it don't sell it
as a project on cell is a one-time deal
right no okay I'm
sorry but we are running out of time so the questions will come to mister bottle
during the week have to one more quick one yes I'll what
disruptive technologies to see coming to your business process to it and
Dhupia to to embrace them
it's like artificial intelligence like all the support business can fit into
one mind
and do your building all all do the
bic because detector now okay I mean I
a it's a very good question and it gives me the opportunity to get my standard
consulting
or Mike my standard architect's or my standard Business Analyst answer
and that is it depends some
sold just just very very quickly
I think is really two types of technologies here is the technology to
keep track
architecture there's the technologies to implement changes in business processes
but thing is if you have a process is very
mechanical straightforward like like I do a payment process in the bank various
procedures so on
that would be like a business process management system which is coordinates
all the work being done
but if it's a different a case type approach
that you need a sec different types of where if it's a very uncertain thing
that maybe you do need an expert systems
or maybe I use it here P M E the actual implementation technology can vary a lot
she had look at process by process and you also come back and look at you value
proposition
so what's the style by which we gonna do this okay
thank you very much