The importance of the story, to me...
It's so American.
Everybody came to America for a new life.
John Demjanjuk came here for a new life.
And several years into it,
it was turned upside down.
John Demjanjuk had a small house.
He had children. He was a family man.
He fixed the kids' bikes.
He worked at the Ford plant.
He was a normal Cleveland guy.
He was living the American dream. He was a good American citizen.
Up until the government came along and said he was Ivan the Terrible.
Ivan the Terrible was one of the cruelest people
who ever existed on the planet Earth.
This was the man who stood outside of the gas chambers with a sword
and cut off the breasts of Jewish women.
Who pushed children into the gas chambers,
and did so with a relish.
Your... Your mind just wants to... to put a screen up
in front of what really happened,
'cause you... you really don't want to know that human beings did that to each other.
The man I saw as John Demjanjuk could have been a monster.
Or he could have been a victim of wrong identity.
In my deepest center of fear is that I think he could be anybody.
You know, it's funny that I'm back over here in this area now
because I've moved probably seven, eight times
in my life so far,
and all very close to the Ukrainian Village.
I keep being brought back here.
We're comin' down the street now
where my grandparents have lived for the majority of their life.
This was home to me in more than one way.
Seven Hills is a real quiet community.
It's very close-knit.
When you look at the news stories,
you never hear anything bad coming out of Seven Hills.
The only reason anybody has ever heard of Seven Hills
would be because of my grandfather's case.
Charges were filed today against retired Seven Hills autoworker John Demjanjuk.
The 66-year-old Ukrainian native
is accused of being a Nazi death camp guard
named Ivan the Terrible.
The death camp guard who played a major role
in the torture and gas chamber murders
of nearly one million Jews during World War II.
The charges state that Demjanjuk was a notorious executioner
in the Nazis' systematic murder of more than six million Jews.
He's accused of operating the gas chambers
at a death camp called Treblinka in Poland.
Demjanjuk denies all charges,
claiming he is not Ivan the Terrible, and it's all a case of mistaken identity.
It was a zoo.
There were news crews, vehicles parked halfway down the street.
Especially here in Cleveland,
to have somebody that they can portray as this monster,
and as this, you know, villain.
The man many consider as Ivan the Terrible faces deportation...
You turn the TV on, and five out of six news channels
were reporting about my grandfather.
All camera lenses are trained on this house.
There's a Do Not Disturb sign on the door.
He used to have 30, 40 people with signs
standing right here, where we are right now.
People protesting that he's here...
and...
weren't too happy that he was.
Demjanjuk insists it is a case of mistaken identity.
A Treblinka survivor today insisted...
there was no mistake.
There has not been a single moment, not today or yesterday,
not a year ago or 20 years ago,
when this man hasn't been in my mind.
He's there constantly.
Those witnesses testified that you herded the Jews
into the gas chamber.
Why would they say that?
I really don't know why they give that evidence.
But why they give that evidence now?
Why didn't give that evidence in '45,
when the war was ended?
Were you ever a guard
- in an SS Nazi extermination camp? - Never. Never. Never.
What we are looking at is a case
which may be unprecedented in international scope.
A naturalized American charged with war crimes in a 28-page indictment.
It is the biggest case since Adolf Eichmann was convicted
back in 1962, and it may well be the last war crimes case
to come out of the Holocaust.
Ford was a place that, if you stayed a week,
you knew you were gonna stay the rest of your life.
It was family.
The people that came to work at Ford
from Germany, the Ukraine,
they did their job, hardly ever talked...
then they disappeared into the darkness.
The work was incredibly hard.
It was hot, it was noisy beyond comprehension.
But if you made it past one or two weeks...
that was it. They never left.
The one thing I remember, when the noise about what John might have been,
you know, came about,
that's all anybody talked about.
The shit hit the fan.
Everybody was talking about it,
and you never heard someone say something bad...
about John.
Everybody that worked at Ford was that way.
I think a lot of people in Cleveland saw themselves in John Demjanjuk.
Someone who came to this country and got married
and worked hard.
And here was the government coming in and grabbing him by the scruff of the neck
and hauling him into court, take... Trying to take away his citizenship,
and that... that scared them. That scared them.
But...
a sociopath can live among you...
your whole life, and you don't know it till he eats you.
I've spent my career working at the Office of Special Investigations.
The so-called "Nazi Hunting Unit."
The Demjanjuk case is traceable
to a list of war criminals in the United States.
Survivor witnesses pointed to Demjanjuk's photo
and said, "We remember him."
He was the guard they knew at Treblinka.
The gas chamber operator, Ivan the Terrible.
No decent government could just stand by
and say, "Well, that was then, and this is now." No.
He had to be removed from the United States.
Ivan the Terrible was...
one of the cruelest people who ever existed on the planet Earth.
One point seven million Jews were annihilated in Poland,
and Ivan the Terrible...
did the dirty work.
Someone who delighted in herding men,
women, children, and babies into a gas chamber.
Who delighted in using a blade, I think a sword even,
to, um, torture people,
um, in their final moments.
The horror of it.
The despair of it.
The cruelty of it is... is so... overwhelming.
One has to... has to struggle not to think about it all the time.
The United States had no jurisdiction
over John Demjanjuk.
He didn't commit the crime in an American territory,
and he didn't commit the crime against Americans.
There's only one way
that you can get a former Nazi hiding in America.
He can be deported.
Demjanjuk, already stripped of his citizenship
and facing deportation proceedings, is under a new threat.
For in the most ominous development of all, the Israeli government is seeking
his extradition as a war criminal.
At the district court in Jerusalem,
an indictment was served today against John Demjanjuk,
suspected of being Ivan the Terrible, the murderer of Treblinka.
He feels bad that we have to be out here.
That, you know...
Everything that's going on, to the family,
it... it hurts him.
But we're gonna fully support him
because we care and we believe in what he's doing,
and we'll back him up all the way.
I have nothing but bottomless sympathy
and feelings for the Demjanjuk family.
They... They felt it to their core that their father was innocent,
and they did everything in their power, I believe.
I think they made a lot of mistakes, but who wouldn't?
It's such a new role for anybody to take on.
We know exactly the kind of person Ivan the Terrible is,
and that person is definitely not my father.
He's an innocent man.
They arrested an innocent man. Now they put an innocent man in jail.
We've got all kinds of information. They don't want to hear it.
They don't even want it to go to court. They want to get him out of here,
and they want to keep the medias confused about it and just get him out of here.
Lydia Demjanjuk gave me a call.
At that point in time, I didn't have any idea...
uh, what the story was,
or whether I wanted to get involved with anything.
I had a conversation with my dad. He said, "Go there, see what you think."
So finally, I got there,
and greeted John, who's on the front lawn, and he's doin' stuff.
And all his flowers everywhere. Beautiful, green flowers everywhere.
I said, "Ivan the Terrible doin' all this flower stuff?"
He was the perfect immigrant. Ukrainian immigrant,
in the Ukrainian community, going to the Ukrainian church.
He was a great worker at the Ford plant.
Never had a fight, never been arrested, never got a speeding ticket.
And I'm thinking, "Okay, maybe he's hiding something."
Maybe he's the best actor on the planet."
I saw all the allegations.
I'm thinking...
"How is this possible for a human being to do that?"
You've got that image, and it's very strong.
It goes into your heart, it goes down into your guts.
It goes everywhere.
I don't care what you say.
I don't care what the proof is, he's Ivan the Terrible.
The crucial evidence in this case was this SS Identity pass
bearing Demjanjuk's name and accurate personal details.
Mr. Demjanjuk, was that your picture?
I don't know.
- You can't be sure? - I'm not sure. I don't know.
I never see that picture.
So, I go with Lydia in the basement.
She said, "Look, I know the story. I know what's going on."
And she's got piles of documents.
The Justice Department presented evidence
right from the KGB.
"Look, here's Michael Hanusiak."
Here's news from the Ukraine. Here's who he is.
Here's how they set up the Ukraine.
"Here's how they drive a wedge between Ukrainians and Jews."
This is typical disinformatia.
And then, at that point, I said, "I'm gonna see this through."
John Demjanjuk has tried to disprove accusations
that he was a Nazi concentration camp guard in Poland.
His fight is being waged with a new intensity today
by a new attorney, Mark O'Connor.
This man has never had the right to jury trial,
never had the right to confrontation of his accusers.
They identified a picture,
and that's the picture on the phony KGB card
that we have already exposed to the people and to the court
as being a total fraud.
White House communications director Patrick Buchanan
believes the Soviets are trying to frame the Ukrainian expatriate.
I think the ID card is... is inauthentic.
I think it's a forgery.
The only evidence they had against him
was from the Soviet Union,
and the Soviet evidence and the Soviet Union cannot be trusted.
The Cold War has created a mood of crisis
and suspicion between the East and West.
All the moral values which this country cherishes
are fundamentally challenged by a powerful adversary,
which does not wish these values to survive.
They are the focus of evil in the modern world.
I suppose one interesting question to ask
is why is the Soviet Union even passing this information on?
The Soviets took a decent amount of relish
in revealing the fact that many collaborators
had found sanctuary in "Western" democracy.
The black hand of the KGB,
which has caused the deaths of millions of innocent, unarmed men,
women, and children
is now the guiding light in pinpointing Ukrainian Americans,
and other ethnic non-Russian nationalities in America,
who are being denounced as Nazi collaborators and worse.
The other thing is that
there were two pretty anti-Soviet groups in the United States:
Ukrainian Americans
and Jewish Americans.
Instead of having an alliance against the Soviets,
the Soviets were trying to drive a wedge between these two anti-Soviet groups.
Deport the Nazi now! Deport the Nazi now!
I want him out of here before I die.
We Ukrainians born
in the United States
will not allow the persecution of our parents
in this free country!
The Ukrainian community felt just as important
as the Jewish community in Cleveland.
And once each side saw what was at stake here,
the line was drawn.
Demjanjuk is innocent!
Your neighbor is a Nazi. Your neighbor is a Nazi.
Leave John alone!
Let him go home!
What do you know about it?
- Six million! - Never again!
I pity the man. I mean, to live and think that, you know,
at any minute, you could die.
At any minute, somebody could walk up to you and blow your head off
'cause they're a fanatic.
I wish all the people would stay off this street,
leave the residents in Seven Hills alone.
If you don't live here, you're not involved in the city, please.
We got to all live on this planet together,
and if... and if we don't soon start burying the ax,
things are gonna get out of hand.
Decision time. Does Demjanjuk stay, or does he go?
If Demjanjuk loses that battle,
the United States secretary of state will make the decision
on whether or not to extradite him to Israel.
Members of the Ukrainian community
started gathering outside the federal courthouse
at 8:30 this morning,
waiting for the decision to be handed down.
And then it came,
Judge Battisti declaring John Demjanjuk guilty.
John Demjanjuk could be extradited to Israel today,
where he will be facing a death sentence for alleged crimes against humanity.
This is not just a fraud as far as Mr. Demjanjuk is concerned.
It's a fraud on the people.
Any reaction at all?
- Did you... - The blood is now on your hands.
Oh.
Did... Did you say anything at all to your father?
Nazi criminal John Demjanjuk
was transferred tonight to an undisclosed location
from the federal prison in Manhattan.
From there, he'll be transferred to Kennedy Airport on his way to Israel.
Several months after I started to work
at the Ministry of Justice in Israel,
Dennis Goldman gives me a box,
and he says, "This box contains the transcripts"
of depositions and trial
"of a man by the name of John Demjanjuk."
When I opened the box, it was unequivocal
that John Demjanjuk was Ivan the Terrible,
the person who stood
outside the gas chamber
in what was called the Himmel Strasse,
the road to heaven.
It was very important
not to let this man get away.
I remember the scene of his arrival in Israel.
There were bleachers that were set
where the media would stand.
We had drilled it with INS,
uh, to the extent that the US Marshals would bring him down.
And at that point,
there would be an exchange of the prisoner
to Israeli police officers.
Demjanjuk steps down,
the US Marshals are at his side,
and Demjanjuk turns to him,
somehow explains to him
that he wants to kiss the ground of the holy land.
The US Marshal says no,
but then he turns to Alex Ish-Shalom and says he wants to kiss the ground,
and Alex Ish-Shalom says no.
He wanted to show that here was the very religious man
who could never have killed anyone.
Almost within two hours of his landing in Israel,
he is interrogated.
He sat down.
And when he sat down, he looked at the detective,
and he said, with a beaming smile,
- Shalom! - "Shalom."
And he was looking at the investigators like he was going to toy with them.
Ah.
How do you feel?
I feel good now, thank you.
Nobody ever accepted that he's not coming back.
Everybody always tried to remain optimistic
that, in the end, the truth will prevail.
You know, God will... God is good, and God'll take care.
Make sure that he comes home to us safe.
American counsel Mark O'Connor arrived in Israel today
after defending John Demjanjuk in the US prior to his extradition here.
I'm pulling up to Ayalon,
and I'm looking at the prison.
And I'm saying, "What is this?"
You got all these psychedelic paintings.
I mean, not just, like, in one spot.
The whole prison is a Picasso painting.
I got through all these different gates,
and the first thing you see when you walk in
is the area where the two guards sleep.
So, you have the two guards watching him 24 hours a day in a solitary cell.
I'm the first person from... Cleveland,
you know, over there to see him.
Demjanjuk, in that cell,
kept saying to me, "What are you gettin' so excited about?"
I said, "What am I getting so..."
You're the guy that's gonna hang. What are you talkin' about?
Said, "I'm not gonna hang. I am not gonna hang."
And he's reading his Bible, and "My guardian angel's here."
I'm a Catholic,
so I'm not gonna put down guardian angels, okay?
So I'm sayin', "I don't know what's going on here."
He has 90 days to get ready.
The trial should start just before New Year's Day.
There's still a... a blending going on,
uh, between Demjanjuk and Ivan the Terrible,
and I think these experienced trial judges...
Mr. O'Connor, he looked for an Israeli attorney...
who would help them understand Israeli law,
but he couldn't find any.
Fifteen Israeli attorneys so far have refused
to assist in the defense of John Demjanjuk.
Pressure.
Who wants to put their whole career on the line?
What if he is Ivan the Terrible?
I couldn't spend $600,000, I couldn't spend $400,000,
because I am doing this on my own. That's why I didn't come forward.
They spent months looking
for a lawyer, and no one would do it.
No one wanted to be involved.
Then, they found Sheftel.
There is a Yiddish expression,
uh, called...
It's a person that refuse to obey the general norms,
and to behave exactly as expected.
- A troublemaker. - And you enjoy being this?
Uh, yes, yes.
I don't have to put too much effort towards it.
It's come out of me naturally.
After ten years, uh, acting as a defense lawyer,
I came to a definite description
of, uh, the Israeli prosecution
as a factory of travesty of justice.
- Are you innocent? - I'm an innocent man. I'm wrong man.
I heard about Ivan the Terrible
before he was extradited from the US to Israel.
I was, uh, like any other Israeli,
positively convinced that Ivan the Terrible is John Demjanjuk.
I had no doubt whatsoever.
I started, I don't know why. Don't have any... any explanation why,
but I started to think about it almost every day.
Looking for every piece of information
in any newspaper or radio or television whatsoever.
It occurred to me that the essence of the evidence against him...
may be very flawed.
The entire adventure...
may be a shocking farce.
I said to O'Connor, "I'm in the case."
The man is not Ivan the Terrible."
The first time that I saw Sheftel,
he embodied, for me, a traitor.
I thought of Sheftel as being a showman at first.
A showboat, I should say.
He was quite...
uh, larger than life.
I can't tell you what I think about Sheftel,
because he'd sue me immediately.
But I'm sorry that there are Jews like Sheftel.
I'm ashamed of it.
Yoram, let's say you're defending a murderer,
and for some reason or another,
you can build him a stellar defense.
Would you get him acquitted?
With enthusiasm.
A person is entitled to a defense. I understand.
I saw Sheftel's involvement
such that he had a little bit too much of a relish
to get Mr. Demjanjuk found not guilty.
I have no respect for him.
None.
Reporters and photographers are arriving here daily.
Most are here for the duration of what they call
the trial of the decade.
When this story came up
and I was assigned to get on an airplane to fly over to Jerusalem,
I didn't know the true scope of the story
until I got there and saw the interest.
Everybody had a complete understanding of what the evidence was against this man,
from the way he looked, from the way he spoke.
You could tell their minds were pretty much made up.
If you ask me, I think he's guilty.
I think he is guilty.
If this guy is guilty, well, then, he's got to pay the price.
Most people had a stronger opinion than I did.
That I can be sure of
'cause they all said, "There's no doubt that he's guilty.
It'll be over in a nanosecond."
I don't think I have the capacity,
'cause somewhere in my mind is always the little nagging voice saying,
"Are you sure you've got enough information?
Are you sure you're not gonna be making a mistake?"
And that's exactly how I felt in that courtroom in... in Jerusalem.
The city of Jerusalem has been gearing up
for the Demjanjuk trial for the past year,
and finally, the trial is set to start here
at the city's sprawling convention complex.
When it starts, the trial will be conducted here
under very tight security.
Soldiers and police will be on duty everywhere,
providing extraordinary protection
during the entire length of the court case.
The newspapers here are reporting the Demjanjuk case extensively.
Television has weighed the merits of the trial for months.
And soon, the actual court case begins.
We're still confident that justice will be done,
and my father will be exonerated.
And there won't be another...
crucifixion.
Where did you come from at this early hour?
Ramat Gan.
- Why? - Why?
I told you. I lost them all.
The three-judge panel begins hearing the Demjanjuk case
in this courtroom within the next two hours.
Each visitor's personal details were logged,
and metal objects caused the metal detector to buzz.
What would you like the outcome to be?
I want him to hang.
I'd hang him myself.
Or burn him.
A few minutes after 7:00,
two hours before the trial is set to begin,
John Demjanjuk is brought in from Ayalon Prison.
The man Israelis say is the Butcher of Treblinka
went on trial in Jerusalem today.
The John Demjanjuk trial began today
at the International Convention Center in Jerusalem.
This is so much more
than a trial of one man's guilt.
This is a hearing of history.
When Eichmann was on trial,
my mother made me watch it.
Now Demjanjuk is on trial, and I want my child to watch it.
This is the only safeguard we have that it never happens again.
All the research I'd done, all, everything...
This was the culmination of years and years.
Here I am,
one or two hours of sleep, going on adrenaline,
having to be ready.
This is a case of...
establishment atrocity
from bottom to top.
A cover-up and a frame-up...
in a show trial.
I was hundred percent convinced
that Demjanjuk is not Ivan the Terrible.
Yet, I'm convinced hundred percent
that he would be found guilty and sentenced to death.
But I was sure...
that I would manage
to destroy the show.
All rise!
Case 3736, State of Israel vs. John Ivan Demjanjuk.
The accused will rise.
- Please state your name. - Uh...
What's your name?
Uh...
Honorable court, my name is John Demjanjuk.
I must warn you,
that you must tell the truth and the whole truth.
If you don't, you will be punished by law.
John, you're being accused of being at Treblinka
and participating in the horrendous crimes at that death killing camp.
Uh, would you tell the court, at this instance,
what your answer is with regard to you ever being at that location
and perpetrating any of these crimes?
The honorable bench,
I'm accused here of having been at Treblinka.
This is not true.
I was never either at Treblinka or Sobibor
or at any other such place.
Because I am not Ivan the Terrible.
And the most just witness to this is God himself.
I am innocent, innocent, innocent.
I studied Demjanuk's character,
Demjanjuk's reaction.
I realized he will never confess.
He would rather stay and maybe die
as the father and the grandfather
uh, that he was later on in Cleveland.
In every normal criminal case, you have a scene of crime.
But the Nazis, they have burnt and destroyed most of the evidence.
The same goes to eyewitnesses.
I mean, most of them were exterminated by the Germans.
And yet, I have to lead this trial.
The prosecution would like to invite Pinchas Epstein.
This trial was filled with so much passion,
so much pain, and so much history.
Survivors were dying every day.
And this was a last glimpse and effort
to hear them,
to put it in language, and to listen.
I would ask of you
to start with your date of birth.
I am Epstein Pinchas, son of Dov and Sara.
I was born in Czestochowa on March 3, 1925.
I understand that, from the moment you arrived at the death camp,
you were assigned to carry bodies from the gas chambers to the pits.
Correct.
I sat at a spot where I could see
the engine of the gas chambers.
It was the machine house.
And I saw a man come out of the gas chamber.
Later, I learned his name was Ivan. Ivan the Terrible.
I saw a large man, and he was operating the engine.
They ordered to open the doors and take out the corpses.
This Ivan would come out of the engine room
and beat us with his pipe.
Sometimes he would carry a sword.
And he would crush skulls, cut ears, and torture the prisoners.
It was unbelievable.
Your Honors, we took out corpses. It was horrific to see.
People with crushed faces, people with knife wounds,
pregnant women stabbed in the gut, people with eyes poked out.
There are no words.
One day a living girl
came out of the gas chambers.
About 12 years old.
Her words still ring in my ears:
"Yachtse du mamoshy."
- What do these words mean? - "I want my mommy."
I have a granddaughter her age.
Then they took her to the pit and shot her.
Your Honors, I see Ivan every night. I want to...
My poor wife. I dream of him every night. I see him every night.
He is engraved in my memory. I cannot escape him.
I see Ivan here, in front of me, as I remember him, as he lives in my mind.
There he is, as he stands here! Here he stands!
Mr. Epstein!
Age has taken its toll, it's obvious, but not as much as to not know the man.
I see him, I see him, I see him.
- Murderer! - Shh!
Be seated!
There is full entitlement
to seek brutal...
merciless revenge
from Ivan the Terrible.
I see a lot of value in revenge against the proper person,
not against a retired autoworker
which was mistakenly thought to be Ivan the Terrible...
as a victim of a conspiracy.