是 大臣
第三季 第二集
翻|校|监 草草
时间轴 想念Gallifrey的Wholock
后期 8T
迎难而上
本周四下午的主要新闻 And the main news this Thursday p.m.
是政府大改组 is the big government re-shuffle.
我们演播室里请来了一位嘉宾 And I have with me in the studio,
谈论他的新帝国 to discuss his new empire,
行政事务部大臣 the Minister for Administrative Affairs,
詹姆斯·哈克议员阁下 the Right Honourable James Hacker MP.
哈克先生 有人说 It's been said Mr Hacker
您现在除了是白厅先生 还是市政厅先生了 that you are now Mr Town Hall as well as Mr Whitehall.
多谢你这么说 Well, it's very flattering of you to put it that way.
其实不是我这么说的 哈克先生 Well, it wasn't me who put it that way, Mr Hacker,
是《每日镜报》 it was the Daily Mirror.
我只是想确认一下 I just wanted to confirm
您现在是本国的首席官僚 that you are now this country's chief bureaucrat.
这根本是胡说 Of course, that's nonsense.
本届政府是要坚决减少官僚主义的 This government believes in reducing bureaucracy.
我这里的数据显示 Well, figures I have here
贵部员工增加了10% say that your department's staff has risen by 10%.
才不是 Certainly not.
那您的数据是怎样的呢 Well, what figure do you have?
据我所知 数据是9.97% I believe the figure is much more like 9.97.
您瞧 哈克先生 有人认为 Well, you see, it has been suggested, Mr Hacker,
贵部的宗旨 that your department is
并非减少官僚主义 而是增加官僚主义 less interested in reducing bureaucracy than in increasing it.
对 Well, yes,
那是因为 为了裁减员工 but that's because we've had to take on more staff
我们必须扩招 in order to reduce staff.
您说什么 I beg your pardon?
这是常理 Well, it's common sense.
我们得雇更多医生才能治好更多病人 We have to take on more doctors to cure more patients,
雇更多消防员才能扑灭更多火灾 more firemen to extinguish more fires.
但您说要怎么消灭 But how do you propose to extinguish
地方政府的官僚主义 local government bureaucracy?
这是个挑战 我对它很期待 Well, it's a challenge and I'm looking forward to it.
但您是否也认为 But would you agree that there's
那里的官僚浪费现象比白厅还严重 even more bureaucratic waste there than there is in Whitehall?
是的 所以才说这是个挑战 Well, yes, that's what makes it a challenge.
您打算如何迎接这个挑战 How arel you going to meet the challenge?
现在谈详细提案还太早 It's far too early to give detailed proposals.
毕竟 我刚从10号直接过来 After all, I've just come here direct from Number 10.
是9.97号吧 From number 9.97, perhaps!
但整体策略是毫不留情地削减浪费 But the broad strategy is to cut ruthlessly at waste
同时保留最基本的服务 while leaving essential services intact.
您的前任也是这么说的 Well, that's what your predecessor said.
您是说他失败了吗 Are you saying that he failed?
拜托 让我说完 因为 Please, let me finish. Because
这件事我们一定要说得清清楚楚 we must be absolutely clear about this
我想跟你说老实话 and I want to be quite frank with you.
事实就是 说到底 The plain fact of the matter is that, at the end of the day,
下院的当选政府 it is the right, nay, the duty,
有权利 不对 有责任 of the elected government, in the House of Commons,
确保政府的政策 to ensure that government policy,
这政策是我们当选的原因 the policies on which we were elected
也获得了授权 and for which we have a mandate,
毕竟人们为这政策投票了 the policies after all, for which the people voted,
这政策最终 are the policies which, finally,
当要切国家的蛋糕时... when the national cake has been divided up...
另外 容我提醒你 作为一个国家 ...and may I remind you we, as a nation,
我们的财富有限 don't have unlimited wealth?
我们不能入不敷出 We can't pay ourselves more than we've earn...
那么这政策... ...are the policies...
抱歉 问题是什么来着 I'm sorry, what was the question again?
我就是问您 哈克先生 I was just asking you Mr Hacker,
您是否认为您的前任失败了 whether you would agree that your predecessor had failed.
不 当然没 恰恰相反 No, certainly not. On the contrary.
只是这份工作是个巨大的... It's just that this job is an enormous...
-挑战吗 -对 - Challenge? - Exactly!
对了 我昨天在电台上听到了你那位 小汉 Incidentally, I heard your chap on the radio yesterday, Humpy.
他听上去似乎是想在接手 He sounded as if he wanted to DO things
地方政府的职权后做点什么 about your new local government remit.
他一直把它称为挑战 He kept calling it a challenge.
恭喜 汉弗莱 Congratulations, Humphrey.
多谢你了 How very kind of you.
你可能很快要比阿诺德还有分量了 You may soon be even more important than Arnold here!
是啊 可能吧... Yes, I expect...
不不不 No, no, no, no, no.
我可要说清楚了 汉弗莱 I do want to be quite clear about this, Humphrey.
如果我以为你会让哈克 I would never have given you local government
真插手地方政府 我就不会把它给你了 if I thought you were going to let Hacker do anything about it.
我相信他做不到的 其他人都没做到 Well, I'm sure he won't be able to. Nobody else has.
那不是重点 小汉 That's not the point, Humpy.
根据过去的经验 We've found in the past
所有地方政府改革都会反弹到我们身上 that all local government reforms rebound on us.
每次有人找到 Whenever anybody finds a way of
在地方政府节流或裁员的办法 saving money or cutting staff in local government,
你就会发现这也同样适用于白厅 you'll find it works for Whitehall just as well.
是啊 但地方政府奢侈浪费 Yes, but local government is extravagant,
人员过多 能力低下 而我们... overstaffed, and incompetent, whereas we...
没错 Exactly so.
我清楚我的责任了 阿诺德 I know my duty, Arnold.
而且如果他需要给自己找事做 And if he does need something to keep him busy,
知道该怎么办吗 you know what to do?
让他去查查民防问题 Get him to look into Civil Defence.
民防 防空洞吗 Civil Defence? You mean fall-out shelters?
对 Yes.
政府很久以前就决定 Governments long ago decided
民防并非重要问题 that Civil Defence was not a serious issue.
是啊 只是个没救的问题 No, merely a desperate one!
因此最好把它留给 And it's therefore best left to those
绝对低能的人 whose incompetence can be relied upon.
地方政府 Local authorities!
但政府的最高职责是保护公民 But the highest duty of government is to protect its citizens.
大概是因此他们才把此事交给了区议会 Presumably that's why they leave it to the borough councils!
谢谢 先生们 Thank you, gentlemen.
大臣 可以跟您简单说两句吗 Minister, may I have a brief word?
是关于我们被 It's about a proposal I worked out
调来本部前我拟好的一份提案 before we were transferred to this department?
你是... And you are?
我是... I am...
什么 what?
是啊 你是什么人 Yes, you are what?
什么 What?
我是卡特莱特博士 I am Dr Cartwright.
但容我换个说法 大臣 But if I may put it another way, Minister,
你是什么人 what are you?
我信英国国教 I'm C of E.
不 我想大臣是问 No, I think the Minister means,
你在本部的职能是什么 what function do you perform in the department?
你们不知道吗 Don't you know?
我知道 但大臣想知道 Yes, I know, but the Minister wants to know.
我是职业经济学家 I'm a professional economist.
地方政府统计部主任 Director of Local Administration Statistics.
我们接手前是你在管理 You were running the Local Authority Directorate
地方政府部 before we took over.
老天 不是 Dear me, no.
戈登·里德爵士才是常务次官 Sir Gordon Reid was the Permanent Secretary.
我只是次官 I'm just Under-Secretary rank.
我恐怕也不会晋升了 I fear I shall rise no higher.
为什么 Why not?
可惜啊 我是专家 Alas, I'm an expert.
哪方面的 On what?
这整个方面的 On the whole thing.
这里都写了 It's all in here.
这是关于什么的 What's this all about?
控制地方议会支出 Controlling council expenditure.
我提议 I'm proposing
所有为新项目负责的地方议会官员 that all council officials responsible for a new project
都要先列出失败标准 would have to list their criteria for failure
然后才能获得批准 before they were given the go-ahead.
什么意思 What do you mean?
这是很基础的科学办法 Well, it's a basic scientific approach.
你要先确立衡量 You must first establish a method of
实验成功或失败的办法 measuring the success or failure of an experiment.
这样等实验结束 Then when it's completed,
你才能知道它究竟是成功了... you can tell whether it's succeeded
还是失败了 or failed.
提案必须说明 A proposal would have to state
"此计划的失败标准是 "This scheme would be a failure
时长超过... if it lasts longer than this or
或花销超过... costs more than that,
或雇用员工超过... if it employs more staff than these
或未能达成预设的绩效标准" or fail to meet these pre-set performance standards."
太棒了 That's fantastic!
但这不可能成功的 But you could never make it work.
当然可以 'Course you can.
里面都写了 It's all in there.
伯纳德 这是我周末首先要读的 Bernard, this is my top priority reading for the weekend.
之前怎么没人试过 Why hasn't it been done before?
我不懂 I can't understand.
我提交过好几次 I put it up several times
每次都受到了最热烈的欢迎 and it was always welcomed most warmly.
但每当我们该做讨论时 But Sir Gordon always seemed to have
戈登爵士似乎总有更急的事 something more urgent on when we were due to discuss it.
那你这次来对地方了 Well, you've come to the right place this time.
非常感谢 真的 Thank you very much, indeed.
谢谢 大臣 Thank you, Minister.
这太棒了 This is marvellous,
是吧 伯纳德 isn't it, Bernard?
是吧 伯纳德 Isn't it, Bernard?
是啊... Yes. Well, it's...
它... That is, it's...
呈现得很好 大臣 it's very well presented, Minister.
汉弗莱爵士肯定会觉得很有趣 是吧 Humphrey will be fascinated, don't you think?
他就要来了 Well, he's on his way here, now.
他肯定会发表看法的 I'm sure he'll give his views.
你什么意思 伯纳德 What are you saying, Bernard?
是啊 如我所说 Yes, well, as I say, I think
他肯定会认为提案... that he'll think that it's beautifully...
打字工整 typed.
大臣 Minister.
汉弗莱 Humphrey,
-进来 -伯纳德 - come in. - Bernard.
-坐吧 -谢谢 大臣 - Sit down. - Thank you, Minister.
地方政府 Now, local authorities.
我们要怎么办 What are we going to do?
大臣 这项新职权给了您更大影响力 Minister, this new remit gives you more influence,
和内阁资历 more Cabinet seniority.
但您不必因此而增加工作或担忧 But you do not let it have to give you any more work or worry.
-那就太傻了 -汉弗莱 - That would be foolishness. - Look, Humphrey,
我们必须阻止现在可怕的 we've got to stop this appalling waste
浪费和铺张情况 and extravagance that's going on.
为什么 Why?
对 为什么 Yes, why?
这是我的工作 Well, it's my job.
我们是政府 We're the government.
我们是被选出来治理国家的 We were elected to govern.
真是的 大臣 Really, Minister.
但您总不会打算干扰自由当选的 But surely you don't intend to tamper with the democratic rights
地方政府代表的民主权利吧 of freely-elected local government representatives?
这... Well...
不 no,
当然不 of course not.
但地方政府才不民主 But local government isn't democratic.
地方民主就是个笑话 Local democracy's a farce!
大部分人 I mean the vast majority of people
根本都不认识他们的地方议员 don't even know who their councillor is.
他们从不在地方选举中投票 They never vote in a local election.
投票的人也只把它当做 Those who do simply regard it as a popularity poll
议会政府的人气民调 for the government here in Westminster.
地方议员实际上不对任何人负责 Local councillors in practise are accountable to nobody.
他们是有公益心的公民 They're public-spirited citizens
无私地牺牲了自己的闲暇时间 selflessly sacrificing their spare time.
你见过任何地方议员吗 Have you ever met any?
偶尔见过 躲不开的时候 Occasionally. When there was no alternative.
一半是想满足自大 自我为中心的好事者 Half of them are self-centered busybodies on an ego trip
另一半只是为了捞油水 and the other half only in it for what they can get out of it.
或许他们该来下院 Perhaps they ought to be in the House of Commons.
来看看真正的立法议会什么样 I mean, to see how a proper legislative assembly behaves.
总之 我要好好整治他们 Anyhow, I'm going to get a grip on them.
我有个计划 I have a plan.
您有个计划吗 You have a plan?
对 Yes.
我要坚持 所有地方官员 I'm going to insist that any local official
若提交的计划花费高于 who puts up a plan costing more than...
比如...一万镑 ...say... 10,000 pounds
就必须同时提交失败标准 must accompany it with failure standards.
什么 With what?!
同时声明 其项目失败的 With a statement saying that he would have failed
评判标准是 未能实现特定的... if his project does not achieve certain...
预设目标 pre-set results...
或超过了... ...or exceeds...
定好的时长或员工人数或预算上限 fixed time or staff or budget limits.
大臣 您怎么会想到 Minister, where did you get the idea
这么危险的胡闹 for this dangerous nonsense?
是听了 From someone...
本部某人的建议 in the Department.
大臣 我以前提醒过您 Minister, I have warned you before
跟本部员工谈话有多危险 about the danger of speaking to people in the Department!
我恳求您 别去踩地方政府的雷区 I implore you to stay out of the minefield of local government.
那就是政治坟墓 It is a political graveyard.
但不好意思 汉弗莱爵士 But, excuse me, Sir Humphrey,
坟墓不可能建在雷区里 you cannot have a graveyard in a minefield
不然尸体不都...砰 because all the corpses would... powww!
但你说这工作是你帮我争取来的 But you got me this job, you said.
是啊 但我又没指望您真做什么 Yes, but I didn't expect you to do anything.
您以前又没做过什么 I mean, you've never done anything before!
汉弗莱 我不想听你的不满 Humphrey, I am deaf to your complaints.
拜托 求您了 I mean, please, I beg you...
不不不 汉弗莱 No, no, no, no, no, no, Humphrey.
马上拿出具体提案 I want specific proposals straight away.
立刻做好计划 And immediate plans for their
让地方政府实施 implementation by local government.
不知道你为什么这么大惊小怪 Don't know why you're in such a fuss about anyway?
我只是提出给地方政府设置失败标准 I'm only proposing failure standards for local government,
又不是在白厅施行 not here in Whitehall.
不过说起来... Though come to think of it...
大臣 如果您非要插手地方政府的事 Minister, if you insist on interfering in local government,
那容我提议一件 may I make a suggestion
或许很能争取选票的事 that could prove a very real vote winner?
汉弗莱 我不想再听... Humphrey, I want to hear no more about...
争取选票吗 Vote winner?
地方政府一项急需管理的事务 An area of local government that needs urgent attention.
什么 What?
民防 Civil Defence.
你是说防空洞吗 You mean fall-out shelters?
那就是个笑话吧 Surely they're just a joke.
没错 大臣 它们现在是个笑话 Precisely, Minister. At the moment, they are a joke.
地方政府在磨洋工 但是 Local authorities are dragging their feet, but
任何政府的最高职责 the highest duty of any government
就是保护其公民 is to protect its citizens.
有些人认为建造防空洞 Some people think that the building of shelters
会让核战争更可能发生 makes nuclear war more likely.
既然有武器 就得有防空洞 Well, if you have the weapons, you must have the shelters.
有时我怀疑为什么要有核武器 Sometimes wonder why we need the weapons.
大臣 Minister,
您不是主张片面限武吧 you're not a unilateralist?
我有时会想想 I sometimes wonder, you know.
那您必须辞去公职 Well, then you must resign from the government!
不不不 汉弗莱 No, no, no, no, no, no, Humphrey.
我的倾向没那么强 I'm not THAT unilateralist.
再说 美国人会保护我们不被苏联进犯的 Anyway, the Americans will always protect us from the Russians,
是吧 won't they?
苏联 谁提苏联人了 Russians? Who's talking about the Russians?
独立核威慑嘛 Well, the independent deterrent.
那是为了保护我们抵御法国人的 It's to protect us against the French!
法国人 The French?
但这太令人震惊了 But that's astounding!
-为什么 -他们可是我们的盟友 搭档 - Why? - Well, they're our allies, our partners.
现在是 They are NOW.
但过去九百年里 But they've been our enemies
他们大部分时候都是我们的敌人 for most of the past 900 years.
如果他们有核弹 我们就必须也有 I mean, if they've got the bomb, we must have the bomb!
嗯... Well...
如果是针对法国人的 那就不一样了 if it's for the French, of course, that's different.
那就很说得通了 Makes a lot of sense.
是啊 法国佬不可信 Yes. Can't trust the Frogs.
说得没错 You can say that again!
不过 民众对核弹越来越担忧了 Of course, there is increasing public concern about the bomb.
如果我被视为在对此采取行动... If I were to be seen to be doing something about it...
是 我明白你的意思了 Yes, I see what you mean.
路德维克·肯尼迪 And Ludovic Kennedy
在为BBC筹备一部关于民防的纪录片 is preparing a BBC documentary on Civil Defence
很可能会批评现状 which is likely to be critical of the current situation.
但如果您被视为在采取果决的措施 But, if you were seen to be taking decisive measures...
是啊 Right, yes.
我一向能很好地应对老路 I always handle Ludo so frightfully well.
那好 我们从哪里开始 Yes, right, well, where do we start?
大臣 我就提个建议 Well, Minister, just a suggestion.
伦敦的泰晤士马什区 The London Borough of Thames Marsh
是全国各地政府里 has spends less on Civil Defence
在民防上支出最少的 than any authority in the country.
大臣探访 怎么样 What, a ministerial visit, do you think?
那不是本·斯坦利的区吗 大臣 Isn't that's Ben Stanley's borough, Minister
留着稀疏的小胡子 媒体都讨厌他 the one with the wispy moustache, the one that press all hate.
说得对 伯纳德 马上去安排 Good point, Bernard. Get onto it straight away.
让比尔确保 And get Bill to make sure
媒体知道此次探访 that the press knows all about this visit.
就说 我夜不能寐 Tell them I lie awake at night
就因担心泰晤士马什的市民们缺乏防护 worrying about the defenceless citizens of Thames Marsh.
是真的吗 大臣 Do you, Minister?
今后是了 Well, I will now.
伙计 Look, mate,
你凭什么觉得 what makes you think
你可以就这么从白厅跑来 you can come swanning down here from Whitehall
指导我们怎么管理我们区 and tell us how to run our borough?
我这不叫从白厅跑来 I'm not swanning down from Whitehall.
我只是在问你 I'm simply asking you
为什么你们在大不列颠所有区里 why you've done less than any other borough in Great Britain
在保护选民上做的是最少的 to protect the people who elected you?
简单 我们没那个钱 Simple. We can't find the money.
你们怎么不去找找钱 Why don't you try looking for it?
好啊 That's great!
不给学校买午餐和教科书吗 Stop school meals, buy no textbooks?
让老人都去街上受冻吗 Turn the OAPs out into the cold?
我可以告诉你该去哪找钱 I can tell you exactly where you can find it.
-是吗 -是的 - You can? - Yes.
告诉他 卡特莱特博士 Tell him, Dr Cartwright.
你可以废止新展览中心的建设计划 Well, you can scrap the plans for the new exhibition centre
就是有人工滑雪坡和按摩浴池的那个 with the artificial ski slope and jacuzzi pool.
你可以关闭女权戏剧中心 You can close the Feminist Drama Centre,
地方议会的周报和杂志月刊 the council's weekly newspaper and monthly magazine
还有福利权利研究部 and the Welfare Rights Research Department.
你可以把管理层 You can halve the members'
娱乐津贴减半 management entertainments allowance,
卖掉市长的第二辆戴姆勒豪车 sell the Mayor's second Daimler,
推迟新市政厅的建设 postpone the building of the new Town Hall,
取消20位地方议员的牙买加 and cancel the 20 councillors' tourism
旅游业实地考察行程 factfinding mission to Jamaica.
关闭同性恋丧亲中心 And close the Gay Bereavement Centre.
这样五年里 资本账户上能省下2100万 That'll save 21 millions on capital account over five years
每年岁入账上能省75万 and 750,000 a year on revenue account.
岁入账 Revenue account.
-这太蠢了 -怎么了 - That's just stupid! - Why?
这是在剥夺弱势群体不可或缺的服务 Well, it's depriving the disadvantaged of indispensable services!
按摩浴池吗 Jacuzzi pools?
我们能建得起防空洞也无所谓 Look, I don't care if we can afford a fall-out shelter.
本区支持片面限武 This is a unilateralist borough.
我们泰晤士马什不相信核战 We do not believe in nuclear war in Thames Marsh.
斯坦利先生 我也不相信核战争 Mr Stanley, I don't believe in nuclear war either,
但提供防空洞是政府政策 but the provision of fall-out shelters is government policy.
那也不是泰晤士马什的政策 It is not Thames Marsh policy.
泰晤士马什跟苏联没有纷争 Thames Marsh has no quarrel with the USSR.
我们怕的可不止是苏联 It's not just the USSR we're frightened of.
还要提防法... It could be the Fre...
谁 The who?
...中国人 The... frigging Chinese!
如果苏联人真打了进来 If the Russians do invade us,
难道他们会在区界停下 说 I suppose they'll stop at the borough boundaries, and say,
"等等 我们可没跟 "Hold on, we're not at war
伦敦泰晤士马什区开战 with London Borough of Thames Marsh.
右转 同志们 我们还是去并吞切尔西吧" Right wheel, comrades, let's annex Chelsea instead."
-不好意思 大臣 -是 伯纳德 - Excuse me, Minister. - Yes, Bernard.
我想您或许会想知道... I think you may be interested in...
斯坦利先生 Mr Stanley,
看来终究不需要你 it appears that you would not be called upon
做出终极牺牲了 to make the supreme sacrifice in any case.
什么意思 What do you mean?
据我了解 市政厅地下就有 I understand that there is a fall-out shelter here
一座防空洞 under the Town Hall?
是不是 Well, is there?
又不是我们建的 We didn't build it!
但你们有维护它 But you maintain it.
它很小的 It's only a very small one.
里面有为你留的位子 And there is a place reserved in it for yourself?
我是很不情愿地被说服 I was persuaded, with deep reluctance,
保护我是有必要性的 that my preservation was a necessity
这符合泰晤士马什的纳税人的利益 in the interests of the ratepayers of Thames Marsh.
你为其他重要人员又做了什么准备呢 And what provision have you made for other essential persons?
医生 护士 救护人员 消防员 Doctors, nurses, ambulance men, firemen.
那些可能跟地方议员几乎一样重要的人 People who might be almost as important as councillors.
有个议员是药剂师 One of them's a chemist!
好啊 Great.
核战浩劫中最需要的就是阿司匹林了 Nothing like aspirin for the nuclear holocaust.
你那位在泰晤士马什获得了一场 Your chap had quite a little publicity triumph
小宣传胜利 是吧 down at Thames Marsh, didn't he?
是啊 大获全胜 Yes, tremendous.
你似乎并不怎么为他高兴 汉弗莱 You don't sound appropriately happy for him, Humpy.
问题是 他觉得自己真有所成就 Well, the trouble is he thinks he's achieved something.
太棒了 Splendid.
大臣自以为有所成就时 Life is so much easier when Ministers think
生活就轻松多了 they've achieved something.
这让他们不再担忧 Stops them fretting.
不会发小脾气 No little temper tantrums.
是啊 但他现在又想引入下一个想法 Yes, but now he wants to introduce his next idea.
有两个想法的大臣 A minister with two ideas.
我都记不得上次出现这种大臣是什么时候了 I can't remember when we last had one of those.
不是他自己的想法 It's not his own.
他要让所有超过一万镑的 He wants to introduce pre-set failure standards
地方议会合同定下预设失败标准 on all council contracts over 10,000 pounds
并指明一位负责官员 and make a named official responsible.
-汉弗莱 -我知道 - Humphrey! - I know. I know.
又是卡特莱特的那个蠢计划 That idiot scheme of Cartwright's again!
我以为戈登把这事压住了 I thought Gordon had squashed it.
他现在跑我们这里来了 Well, he's come over to us now.
私下把看似毫不起眼的计划塞给了大臣 Slipped the scheme to the minister privately, under plain cover!
暗度陈仓 Brown envelope job.
你知道接下来就轮到我们了吧 You realise it'll be us next.
一旦你预先明确 I mean, once you specify in advance
一个项目该达成哪些目标 what a project's supposed to achieve
以及该由谁负责确保目标实现 and whose responsibility it is to see that it does,
整个体系就会崩塌 well, the entire system collapses.
你就进入了专业化管理的肮脏世界 You're into the whole squalid world of professional management.
是啊 I know.
我都给他解释了 I've tried to explain to him.
我都跟他说了 他的新责任 I tried to point out to him that his new responsibilities
是让他受用 而不是行使的 但我不知道 were for enjoying, not exercising. But, I don't know.
我们本就每两三年轮换一次官员 We already move our officials round every 2 or 3 years
好避免个人责任制的胡闹 to stop this personal responsibility nonsense.
如果真这样 我们每两周就得轮换一次了 If this happened, we'd be posting everybody once a fortnight.
是啊 I know.
必须阻止他 He must be stopped.
他接下来要去哪出风头 What's his next little publicity trip?
这... Well,
明天他要重温一遍他的小胜利 tomorrow he's living his little triumph over again.
他要跟路德维克·肯尼迪录一段电视采访 He's recording a TV interview with Ludovic Kennedy.
关于民防的纪录片 A documentary on Civil Defence.
假如他拿到一份文件 Supposing he had a dossier
里面有地方议员花费民防预算的 on the curious ways in which local councillors
各种奇特方式呢 spend their Civil Defence budgets.
那能有什么帮助 How would that help?
我有个主意 I've got an idea.
或许你该去当大臣 Perhaps you ought to become a minister!
开玩笑的 阿诺德 Just a joke, Arnold.
演播室准备 我们马上开始录制 Stand by, studio. We're about to record.
真是新鲜 肯尼迪先生 Quite a change, Mr Kennedy,
一个大臣有机会 for a minister to be given the chance
谈论一件成功的事 to talk about something that's a success.
-对于BBC来说真不寻常 -五 四 - Most unusual for the BBC. - Five. Four.
-是政策变了吗 -三 - Is this a change of policy? - Three.
二 一 ...Two ...One.
大臣 您近来宣称 Minister, you've been claiming recently
在与地方政府打交道时 that in your dealings with local authority,
在民防方面有所进展 you've been making some progress as regards Civil Defence.
但这肯定更多是一种宣传 But surely this has been more in the field of publicity
而不是真成就吧 than any achievement?
不不不 No, no, no, no,
老路 Ludo.
地方政府被迫面对这一问题 Civil authorities are being made to face up to these issues
正是因为来自我们的额外关注 because of the extra interest that we have generated.
您也同意 Well, you're agreeing.
您的成功是宣传上的 Your success has been a publicity success.
如果你非要这么说 那是 Well, if you want to put it that way, yes, but
但情况在改变 things are changing.
那泰晤士马什呢 Well, what about Thames Marsh?
泰晤士马什 好例子 Thames Marsh. Good example.
就像我对媒体说的 他们有一个防空洞 As I said in the press, they have got one fall-out shelter.
而且里面为地方议会会长本·斯坦利先生 And a place in it has been reserved for Mr Ben Stanley,
留了个位置 the leader of the council,
他却不肯为其他人建防空洞 who refuses to build shelters for others.
你不觉得这很虚伪吗 Don't you think that's rather hypocritical?
不过 大臣 Well, surely, Minister,
这也在情理之中 it's reasonable to expect that
让一位我们的民选代表 one of our elected representatives
有一线生机 should have a chance of survival.
不然谁来治理国家呢 Who is to govern otherwise?
万一核战浩劫真发生了 In the event of a nuclear holocaust,
当然 and, of course,
我们都希望祈祷那种事永远不会发生 we all hope and pray that such a thing will never happen,
但或许还有比区区政客 there are perhaps more important people
更重要的人 than mere politicians, I mean.
医生 护士 救护人员 等等 Doctors, nurses, ambulance men, and so on.
那些提供必要服务的人 All people who run essential services.
如果我说错了请纠正 大臣 Correct me if I'm wrong, Minister,
但事实上 首相 but is it not a fact that the Prime Minister
和内政大臣 and the Home Secretary
也在政府防空洞里有预留位置吧 have places reserved for them in government fall-out shelters?
这完全是另一回事 That is completely different.
怎么说 How?
总得有人来... Well, there has to be someone to...
运行... run the... you know.
大臣 就我理解 Minister, as I understand it,
您的意思是 政府领袖 you're saying that political leaders
应该放弃他们的位置 让给医生和护士 should give up their places for doctors and nurses.
您是否将这个想法 Well, now, have you put this idea
跟首相和内政大臣说过 to the Prime Minister and the Home Secretary?
我觉得我们应该很小心 I think we ought to be extremely careful
不要把一个很严肃的问题当作小事 not to trivialise what is a very serious issue,
路德维克 Ludovic.
我再给你举个例子 I'll give you another example.
我刚被告知 有个区 I've just been told of a borough
派了一群地方议员 which sent a group of councillors,
花着纳税人的钱去了加州 at the ratepayers' expensive, to California
查看防空洞 to look at fall-out shelters.
结果等他们回来 又什么都做不了 And when they got back, they couldn't do anything about it
因为他们把整三年的民防预算 because they had spent the entire Civil Defence budget
都花在行程上了 for three whole years on the trip!
真是令人震惊 How shocking.
令人震惊 Shocking.
谢谢 大臣 Thank you, Minister.
对了 节目录得如何 By the way, how did the recording go?
我因为本·斯坦利的防空洞差点惹上麻烦 Well, I got into a bit of bother over Ben Stanley's bunker.
我说政客不如医生什么的重要 I said politicians weren't as important as doctors and so on.
是吗 Did you?
然后他说 And then he said
"那首相在政府防空洞里的预留位置怎么说" "What about the PM's place in the government shelter?"
那您怎么说的 And what did you say?
我当然设法脱身了 Well, I got out of it, of course.
还挺聪明的 Quite cleverly, actually.
不过 不知首相对此会有何感想 All the same, I'm not too sure how happy the PM will be about it.
但随后 我靠我记得的一个精彩故事救了场 But then I recovered with a marvellous story I remember
是关于一群地方议员 about a group of councillors
跑去加州看防空洞 who went all the way to California to look at fall-out shelters
结果把整三年的 and spent three entire years
民防预算花在了行程上 of the Civil Defence budget on the jaunt!
可以问问这故事哪来的吗 May I ask where that came from?
是啊 那故事哪来的 伯纳德 Yes. Where did that come from, Bernard?
是来自民防部 大臣 From the Civil Defence Directorate, Minister.
他们肯定是知道您要接受采访 They must have known that you were doing the interview.
好吧 Well.
大臣 我相信您是心里有数的 Anyway, Minister, I'm sure you know what you're doing.
汉弗莱... Humphrey... Humphrey...
你只在我犯下大错时才会这么说 you only say that when I've made an appalling cock-up.
大臣 您知道这故事里的区 Minister, you do know that the borough in question
还包括了首相的选区吧 contains the PM's constituency...
而且首相的选举代理人 ...and that the PM's election agent
正是带领代表团的那位地方议员 was the councillor who led the delegation?
这是开玩笑呢吧 That was just a joke, wasn't it?
10号几周来 Well, Number 10 have been trying
一直努力压着消息 但是... to keep it quiet for weeks. But...
没办法 Well,
-真相总会曝光 -不不 - truth will out. - No, no, no!
不不 不能曝光 No, no, no, it mustn't out.
这可能会让人以为是针对他的攻击 It might look like a personal attack.
你清楚首相现在对忠诚多在意 You know what the PM's like about loyalty, just now.
是啊 Well, yes.
汉弗莱 这采访绝不能播出 Humphrey, this interview must not go out.
这... Well,
很遗憾 大臣 unfortunately, Minister,
我没时间 我得走了 I haven't the time, I must be going.
汉弗莱 我... Humphrey, Humphrey, I... I... I... I'm... I'm...
我命令你 汉弗莱 I'm ordering you, Humphrey.
可惜 大臣 Well, alas, Minister,
正是您的命令在召唤我离开 it is your orders that are calling me away.
什么意思 What do you mean?
您要强迫地方议会执行 Well, your scheme for imposing pre-set
预设失败标准的计划非常复杂 failure standards on local councils is very complex.
您要我马上拿出提案 You asked for proposals straight away.
我为此忙得不可开交 It's taking every moment of my time.
虽然我很想帮您 Much as I would like to help.
不过... However...
如果实施失败标准的事没那么急... if implementing failure standards were not quite so urgent...
所以...你可以阻止放送吗 You mean, you can stop this broadcast?
拜托 大臣 我们可不能审查BBC Well, now, Minister, we cannot censor the BBC,
但我刚好要跟BBC的政策主任吃午饭 but I happen to be lunching with the BBC's Director of Policy.
或许您也想一起来 Perhaps you'd care to join us.
但既然不能审查他们... But if we can't censor them...
我们总还是能说服他们 Well, we can always try to persuade them
自愿撤掉节目 to withdraw programmes voluntarily
只要他们明白 once they realise that
放送有损公众利益 transmission is not in the public interest.
反正是有损我的利益 Well, it's not in MY interest...
而我又代表公众 and I represent the public,
所以这就有损公众利益 so it's not in the public interest.
这个说法还挺新鲜 That's a novel argument.
我们还没对他们用过这个呢 We haven't tried that on them before.
是吧 Have we?
对不起 哈克先生 I'm sorry, Mr Hacker.
但BBC不能向政府施压低头 The BBC cannot give in to government pressure.
我们先不说那个了 好吗 Well, let's leave that on one side, shall we?
别别别 No, no, no, no!
我们先不说那个了 好吗 Let's leave that on one side, shall we?
拜托了 大臣 Please, Minister.
弗兰克 我可以另提件事吗 Frank, I wonder if I could raise something else?
有相当的人担心 There is considerable disquiet
BBC对政府的态度和敌意 about the BBC's attitude and hostility towards the government.
-这太荒唐了 -是吗 - But that's absurd. - Is it?
BBC时事新闻中有不少记录在案的 Well, they've been documenting instances of bias in
偏见报道案例 BBC current affairs.
以及没有报道的有利新闻 Favourable news stories not reported.
对了 还有过度宣传 Yes. Excessive publicity
反英的他国立场 for other countries' cases against Britain.
尤其是我们在共同市场的敌国... Especially our Common Market enemies...
伙伴国 partners.
对了 Yes.
还有拿首相开的玩笑 Jokes against the Prime Minister.
为反政府示威做的不必要的宣传 Unnecessary publicity for anti-government demonstrations.
还有未被采纳的大臣节目建议 And ministers' programme suggestions not accepted.
我的箱子里恐怕装不下别的了 I'm afraid I didn't have room in my case for the others.
但我相信这我们都能解释 But, I'm sure we've got answers to all these.
当然 BBC什么都能解释 Of course, the BBC's always got answers.
虽然很蠢 但总有解释 Silly ones, but it's got them.
是啊 当然 Yes, of course.
但我觉得理当提醒你 But I thought it only fair to warn you
有人在问问题 that questions are being asked.
什么样的问题 What sort of questions?
比如说 Well, for example,
如果议会会议要进行电视转播 were Parliament to be televised,
是不是该交给ITV whether it shouldn't be entrusted to ITV.
你不会是认真的吧 You can't be serious?
以及BBC的行政部门 And whether the BBC administration
是否也像政府那样 咬紧牙关 is actually making the cuts in jobs and premises
进行了裁员和办公空间的缩减 that we've endured in government.
是否该指派一个特别委员会 And should a Select Committee be apointed
审查BBC的支出 to scrutinise BBC expenditure?
但那可是无法忍受的入侵 But that would be an intolerable intrusion.
当然了 Well, of course.
此外 还有不可思议的包厢问题 And then of course, there's this extraordinary matter of boxes
阿斯科特赛马会 温布尔登网球场 at Ascot, Wimbledon,
罗德板球场 科芬园歌剧院 Lords, covent Garden
还有逍遥音乐会的那些 and the Proms.
是啊 那是技术需要 Yes, those are a technical requirement
是给制作和工程团队准备的 for the production and engineering staff.
国税局报告 Reports from the Inland Revenue
显示制作和工程团队人员 suggest that the production and engineering staff
都举着香槟 are all holding champagne glasses.
还都带着他们的妻子... And are all accompanied by their wives or...
或一些女士... ...ladies of...
同样也很出众 equal distinction.
他们还都惊人地像 And all bear remarkable similarity
公司的董事 主管 高管 to governors, directors and executives of the
和他们的朋友 corporation, and their friends.
话说 你这张拍得真不错 是吧 I say, you've come out very well, haven't you?
不过 我们或许 Mind you, it is just possible
还有可能控制住这些批评 that we might be able to contain all this criticism,
只要文件不会越来越多 provided the files don't get any larger.
而且我一直在敦促我的大臣 And I've been urging my minister
实在是没必要正式探讨 that there's really no need to take up this case
民防问题 of the Civil Defence issue formally.
但是...你得理解我的立场 But... But you must see my position.
BBC不能向政府施压低头 The BBC cannot give in to government pressure.
不 当然不能 No, no, of course not.
我们也不希望如此 是吧 大臣 We wouldn't want them to, would we, Minister?
-不吗 -不 当然不了 - Wouldn't we? - No, of course we won't.
但你瞧 大臣跟路德维克·肯尼迪的采访中 But you see, the minister's interview with Ludovic Kennedy
有一些事实错误 did contain some factual errors.
事实错误 Factual errors?
那可就不一样了 Well, now, that's different.
你也知道 BBC不能向政府施压低头 As you know, the BBC couldn't give in to government pressure.
当然不能 Absolutely not.
但我们非常重视事实准确性 But we set great store by factual accuracy.
是的 当然 Yes, yes, indeed.
但你瞧 采访中提到的一些信息 But you see, some of the information in the interview,
到放送时 might well be out of date
-可能就已经过时了 -过时了 - by the time of transmission. - Out of date?
过时 那可就严重了 Out of date? Well, now, that's serious.
当然了 你们也知道 I mean, obviously, the BBC, I mean,
BBC不能向政府施压低头 as you know, couldn't possibly give in to government pressure.
-的确不能 -是啊 - Indeed not. - No.
但我们可不想放送过时内容 But we do not want to transmit out-of-date material.
录像结束后 And since the recording,
我意识到 我不小心说漏了一两件事 I realised that I made one or two inadvertent slips
这可能存在安全隐患 that might have security implications.
比如呢 Such as?
他不能告诉你具体是什么 He can't tell you what they are.
为什么 Why not?
安全考虑 Security.
安全问题的确是再小心都不为过 这我同意 You can't be too careful about security, I do agree.
如果事关国家安全 If the defence of the realm is at stake,
那我们必须非常负责 well, we do have to be very responsible.
当然了 I mean, obviously,
BBC不能向政府施压低头 the BBC couldn't give in to government pressure,
对 当然不能 No, absolutely.
但安全 这是再小心都不为过的 but security, well, you can't be too careful.
-再小心都不为过 -再小心都不为过 - Can't be too careful. - Can't be too careful, you see.
对 如果存在准确性和安全性的隐患 No, if there are inaccuracies and security worries,
那BBC也不会想播放这段采访 well, the BBC wouldn't want to put the interview out.
-就是啊 -那样的话 问题就完全不一样了 - Precisely. - That puts a completely different complexion on it.
-完全不一样了 -完全不一样了 - Completely different. - Different complexion on it.
这样的话 放送就有损公众利益了 Transmission would not be in the public's interest,
-但有件事我必须说清楚 -好 - but I must make one thing absolutely clear. - Yes.
有一点是毫无疑问的 There can be absolutely no question
BBC永远不会向政府施压低头 of the BBC ever giving in to government pressure.
-当然不会 -毫无疑问 - Of course not. - No question.
好消息 大臣 Good news, Minister.
BBC已决定 The BBC have decided
不放送您跟路德维克·肯尼迪的采访了 not to send out your interview with Ludovic Kennedy.
-是吗 -他们认为那是负责的做法 - Really? - They felt that was the responsible course.
好样的 Well done.
没什么的 大臣 It was nothing, Minister.
但是 And yet, you know,
我忍不住觉得 我是被下了套 I can't help feeling that I was trapped
才会说出那种可能会让首相难堪的话 into saying those things that might have embarrassed the PM.
-不会吧 -是啊 - Surely not? - Yes.
我觉得我是被算计了 I think I was dropped right in it.
您怎么会有这么荒唐的想法 How could you think such a ridiculous thought?
怎么荒唐了 汉弗莱 Why is it ridiculous, Humphrey,
难道他给我下套就那么难以想象吗 to imagine that he would've tried to trap me?
谁啊 Who?
路德维克·肯尼迪啊 Ludovic Kennedy.
是路德维克·肯尼迪想给您下套啊 Ludovic Kennedy tried to trap you.
是啊 肯定是这样 Yes, well, I'm sure he did.
媒体真是狡诈 阴险 Deceitful crowd, the media. Underhand.
完全不值得信 Can't trust them an inch.
是啊 狡猾 太狡猾了 No, deceitful, thoroughly deceitful.
对了 汉弗莱 By the way, Humphrey,
我觉得最好还是别去管地方议会了 I think it might be wise to lay off the local councils.
是吗 Yes?
毕竟 After all,
地方议员整体上说 councillors are responsible,
也是负责 明理的人 sensible people on the whole.
当然了 他们可是民主选举出来的 And of course, they are democratically elected.
民主选举出来的 Democratically elected.
我认为中央政府应该谨慎三思 I do think central government has to be frightfully careful
是否要对他们的工作指手画脚 before it starts telling them how to do their jobs.
谨慎三思 Frightfully careful.
那失败标准呢 And the failure standards?
我觉得也是一个道理 I think the same applies...
你说呢 don't you?
是 大臣 Yes, Minister.