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is from DC 604 in Vancouver,

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British Columbia. Candidate

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and actually he's also and DC

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416 in Toronto, Ontario.

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Canada. Apparently he gets

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around. He's also behind me as

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a giant talking head from

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Zardis. Um, no, it's his first

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slide. Sorry. No longer a

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talking head. Um, uh, his talk

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is going to be about the

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frontline first aid. Triaging

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your defer emergency response.

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Digital forensics and

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insert response as well as

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other essential emergency

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workers often faced high

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stress levels and risk

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burnout due to their

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demanding rules. I can relate

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to that. I was in that role

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for a while. This talk is for

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professionals, spouses,

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managers and corporations and

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we'll cover the following

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topics. Self care, hacking

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health, maintaining work

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life balance, building a

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support network and developing

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mindfulness and relaxation

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techniques using technology to

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manage workload, working with

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management to create a

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positive work environment.

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Having built and led

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successful defer practices that

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dealt with some of Canada's

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largest data breaches. I wish to

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impart that I have what I have

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learned over the years so

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others may protect and nurture

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their most sacred resources,

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people. Newman Lim is a manager

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at Odlam, not sure which,

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Brown, where he leads the

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defense against criminals and

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state sponsored doctors,

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targeting the financial

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industry. Prior to this role

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Newman spent several years

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working with large enterprises

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and governments specializing in

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digital forensics and insert

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response investigating some of

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Canada's largest data breaches

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from 2018 to 2023. With more

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than 15 years of InfoSec

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experience, he has delivered

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numerous cyber risk assessments

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coordinated national insert

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responses across multiple

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industries. Newman has been

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invited to share his research

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and thought leadership in many

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security conferences such as

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Greyhat, DEFCON Blue Team

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Village, HTCIA, B-Sides,

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Toronto and CISO Summit and

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CCTX and now DEFCON Groups VR.

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So we'd like to welcome Newman

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to the stage.

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Hey, thank you everyone.

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And it's good to be here. I am

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across the street from the main

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conference. I'm just going to

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basically move on to my very

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first slide here. It's really

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just about myself. I think the

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introduction was fantastic. I

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couldn't have said it better

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myself. Hopefully that will kind

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of set us up for the rest of

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this talk where we really try

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to focus on tips and strategies

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on how we as practitioners as

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well as managers or corporate

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leaders look at this particular

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issue in a more serious way as

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well as come out of this talk

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with some good, you know, good

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statistics as well as strategies

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to kind of deal with the problem

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because let's be honest, this is

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a problem that we are all trying

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to solve. And I don't believe

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anyone has a very good idea of

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how to solve it. So let's just

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start with, okay, well, why

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listen to this person chat about

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this? I've been a digital

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forensics consultant for probably

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most of my career. In 2018, I

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led CGI's digital forensics

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and instant response team. I

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built that team as well as the

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digital forensics lab and in the

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Toronto area. In 2019, I became

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the director of digital forensics

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and instant response at ISA. And

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then after that, in 2023, I was

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the senior manager of detective

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response, also doing instant

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response for Deloitte, one of the

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big fours. During that time, I

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dealt with some of the largest

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data breaches, helped our clients

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with not just the investigation, but

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also the remediation of some of

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these issues at hand. One of the

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main things that I wanted to kind

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of talk about today is legally

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without prejudice, of course. Here

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are just some headlines of some of

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the casework that I may or may not

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have been involved. As we know, this

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is a major, major industry problem

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and burnout within the cybersecurity

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industry is extremely high. A lot

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of our peers, as you can see in some

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of these social posts from various

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times, I think as far back as 2021,

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I've been talking about some of these

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issues that they've been facing, and

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these are some notables in our

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industry. Why is this such a major

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problem? Well, first of all, the

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constant threats that we face, these

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don't go away. In fact, they are

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getting worse. And in some cases, you

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know, we're constantly dealing with

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evolving threats. I mean, the nature

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of the job really means that we are

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always on high alert for new types of

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attacks and vulnerabilities. And

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therefore, you know, it's unbelievably

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mentally exhausting. In some cases,

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either we're working for government

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agencies or hospitals, it's a high

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stakes environment. You know, the

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consequences of a security breach can

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be increasingly severe, not just

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impacting financial losses, but also,

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you know, you could also incur

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reputational damage or legal repercussions.

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And in some cases, even the loss of life,

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these high pressure environments

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contribute to a significant amount of

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stress. And therefore, the burnout

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problem is quite high in those

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industries. Oftentimes, in order for us

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to stay ahead of the cyber threats,

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you know, practitioners will work long

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hours, including long nights and

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weekends. I mean, let's be honest, the

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bad guys don't, they themselves

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don't rest. And they target people,

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you know, in the middle of the night.

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So for that, we need to be constantly

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vigilant. And in rapid response, you

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know, most of the times, it can be very

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disruptive to work-life balance, because

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hey, you could get hit at 3 a.m. in the

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morning. Fourth one is, I think we're

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no stranger to, we all know there's a

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skills shortage. It's difficult enough

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as it is to learn a lot of these

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investigative techniques. There's a

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significant gap in the way that

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institutions such as universities or

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colleges are teaching students today.

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And they're not really catching up with

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the amount of knowledge and skills that

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are required for what we need to do in

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the industry. And therefore, this

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skill shortage just keeps getting bigger

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and bigger. The complex and evolving

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threat landscape, as we know, the

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rapid pace of technology change really

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means that cybersecurity professionals

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have to constantly update their

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skills. Oftentimes, most folks will, you

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know, do it for your degree, take a

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sans chorus and feel like that is enough

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for them to leverage, to build their

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career. And there's nothing wrong with

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that. But that type of knowledge expires

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fairly quickly, given how quickly things

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change, such as new technologies, new

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abilities in cloud technologies, for

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example, as we start to move a lot of our

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on-prem systems away from what we have

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today to more modern technologies. And

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so the threat of change creates a

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stressful environment. And of course,

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incident response stress, as you well

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know, during cyber incidents, the

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pressure to act quickly and efficiently

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is immense. The stress of managing and

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mitigating cyber attacks, especially in

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the middle of one, often with a complete

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lack of resources, and of course the high

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stakes, especially if you're working for

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a hospital, can be extremely draining,

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not just physically, but also mentally as

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well. And last but not least, there's a

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huge lack of recognition and support for

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our industry. Oftentimes, I hear from

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practitioners, they keep saying things

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like, hey, this is an unbelievably

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thankless job, and it keeps reflecting

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it in that way. Organizations don't seem

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to recognize their staff enough that

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have worked all of these long hours. So

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based on that, what can we do? First

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things first, I just want to call out

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my disclaimer. I'm not a medical

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professional. The information and

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opinions that I'm providing here today

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is based on my personal views and my

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experience. If you are suffering from

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some medical condition, please make sure

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that you consult with a qualified

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healthcare professional. The content

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here is really for educational and

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informational purposes, and should not

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be a substitute for professional

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medical advice and treatment. So let's

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take a quick look at what is the

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definition of burnout, and now the

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World Health Organization has defined

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burnout as a occupational phenomenon

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or occupational, I wouldn't call it an

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illness, it's more of a condition, and

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it's actually being recognized as a

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classification under diseases. So it is

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what they would consider a medical

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phenomenon. Burnout defined in IC

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11 is as follows. Burnout is a

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syndrome conceptualized as a result of

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chronic workplace stress that have not

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been successfully managed, and that's

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the key word here that they're trying to

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flush out here is that it has not been

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successfully managed. So that said, how

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can we as individuals, spouses,

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co-workers, managers, manage this

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successfully? So here the WHO has

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characterized three different dimensions.

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The feelings of energy depletion or

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exhaustion, increased mental distance

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from one's jobs, feelings to reduce

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professional advocacy. Now these are at a

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very high level some of those symptoms,

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but as part of my presentation, I will

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take you through a lot more different

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symptoms on how to identify what could

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potentially constitute as burnout.

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So here in Canada, I just want everyone

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to know that that organization, you will

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have a responsibility to their

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employees, especially their well-being

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of their employees, and generally

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these kind of fall into the following

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categories. So organizations are

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responsible for creating healthy work

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environments. We have physical

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safety requirements. We have to ensure

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that the workplace is safe and free from

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hazards that could cause physical harm.

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That's it. There is also another category,

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what we call mental health support.

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Organizations must foster a work

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environment that supports mental well-being

284
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and reduce stigma around mental health.

285
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Organizations in Canada also must provide

286
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resources and support. So we do have

287
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things like employee assistant programs

288
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or EAPs. I believe this is the same in

289
00:13:07,000 --> 00:13:10,000
the U.S. as well. They must offer

290
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access to counseling services,

291
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mental health resources, and support

292
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programs. Here in Canada, we have

293
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something very special. We call them

294
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mental health days. We're allowed to take

295
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a number of days off, specifically for

296
00:13:25,000 --> 00:13:27,000
mental health needs, and that's been

297
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phenomenal because it does not take away

298
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from your sick days. And that's

299
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because it does not take away from your sick days.

300
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And our regular sick leave here in

301
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Canada is, sorry, in BC in particular

302
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is five days. We're given five days

303
00:13:45,000 --> 00:13:48,000
of sick days, and these mental health days

304
00:13:48,000 --> 00:13:52,000
are on top of that. Workplaces

305
00:13:52,000 --> 00:13:55,000
must allow for reasonable

306
00:13:55,000 --> 00:13:58,000
working hours in order for

307
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staff members to manage their workload

308
00:14:01,000 --> 00:14:05,000
and stress. So employers

309
00:14:05,000 --> 00:14:08,000
are regulated to maintain

310
00:14:08,000 --> 00:14:11,000
those. Do they follow them? I can tell

311
00:14:11,000 --> 00:14:13,000
you not too many do, but they are

312
00:14:13,000 --> 00:14:16,000
actually required to do so. Stress

313
00:14:16,000 --> 00:14:21,000
management organizations are

314
00:14:21,000 --> 00:14:24,000
supposed to be following or allowing

315
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for the implementation of practices

316
00:14:26,000 --> 00:14:28,000
and programs that will help employees

317
00:14:28,000 --> 00:14:32,000
manage and reduce stress, such as

318
00:14:32,000 --> 00:14:34,000
providing training for stress

319
00:14:34,000 --> 00:14:38,000
management techniques. And

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00:14:38,000 --> 00:14:41,000
organizations must also promote

321
00:14:41,000 --> 00:14:43,000
work-life balance, and these could

322
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include things like allowing for

323
00:14:45,000 --> 00:14:47,000
flexible work arrangements. But again,

324
00:14:47,000 --> 00:14:50,000
not every organization follows this.

325
00:14:50,000 --> 00:14:52,000
They must also allow for time off

326
00:14:52,000 --> 00:14:55,000
or have time off policies. And I

327
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think most corporations do follow

328
00:14:58,000 --> 00:15:03,000
that particular guideline. Organizations

329
00:15:03,000 --> 00:15:06,000
must also encourage open communications.

330
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In this particular case, they must

331
00:15:08,000 --> 00:15:12,000
support a corporate culture that

332
00:15:12,000 --> 00:15:14,000
creates an environment, a safe

333
00:15:14,000 --> 00:15:16,000
environment, where employees feel

334
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comfortable discussing not just their

335
00:15:19,000 --> 00:15:21,000
physical but also their mental health

336
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concerns. And they must also

337
00:15:24,000 --> 00:15:28,000
provide mechanisms to allow

338
00:15:28,000 --> 00:15:30,000
employees to voice concerns as well

339
00:15:30,000 --> 00:15:33,000
as suggest improvements to those

340
00:15:33,000 --> 00:15:36,000
policies and programs. One that is

341
00:15:36,000 --> 00:15:39,000
very important, and I can't stress

342
00:15:39,000 --> 00:15:41,000
enough, is really the training and

343
00:15:41,000 --> 00:15:43,000
awareness piece. Organizations are

344
00:15:43,000 --> 00:15:45,000
responsible for providing training

345
00:15:45,000 --> 00:15:48,000
for managers and employees as well

346
00:15:48,000 --> 00:15:50,000
on how to recognize the signs of

347
00:15:50,000 --> 00:15:53,000
physical and mental health issues. And

348
00:15:53,000 --> 00:15:55,000
also how that they can get support

349
00:15:55,000 --> 00:15:58,000
and help. So those EIP programs,

350
00:15:58,000 --> 00:16:00,000
for example, they need to have

351
00:16:00,000 --> 00:16:03,000
documentation as well as policies

352
00:16:03,000 --> 00:16:05,000
and procedures to say, here's how you

353
00:16:05,000 --> 00:16:08,000
can access all of these. There are

354
00:16:08,000 --> 00:16:11,000
some legal compliance in terms of

355
00:16:11,000 --> 00:16:13,000
what an organization is responsible

356
00:16:13,000 --> 00:16:17,000
for. There are some federal and

357
00:16:17,000 --> 00:16:20,000
provincial or state regulations

358
00:16:20,000 --> 00:16:22,000
regarding workplace health and safety.

359
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If you do not follow these, you can

360
00:16:25,000 --> 00:16:28,000
be ordered by the government to

361
00:16:28,000 --> 00:16:33,000
adhere or meet those standards.

362
00:16:33,000 --> 00:16:37,000
There are also accommodations

363
00:16:37,000 --> 00:16:41,000
given by law for employees with

364
00:16:41,000 --> 00:16:43,000
mental health conditions, and these

365
00:16:43,000 --> 00:16:45,000
are required by law. So say, for

366
00:16:45,000 --> 00:16:47,000
example, if you have a staff member

367
00:16:47,000 --> 00:16:51,000
that has ADHD, for example, you

368
00:16:51,000 --> 00:16:53,000
must allow for accommodations within

369
00:16:53,000 --> 00:16:55,000
your workplace. And last but not

370
00:16:55,000 --> 00:16:57,000
least, employee engagement and

371
00:16:57,000 --> 00:17:00,000
support. There must be supports

372
00:17:00,000 --> 00:17:03,000
provided for employees for career

373
00:17:03,000 --> 00:17:06,000
development, as well as recognition

374
00:17:06,000 --> 00:17:09,000
and reward. Now, I can tell you a lot

375
00:17:09,000 --> 00:17:11,000
of companies don't actually follow

376
00:17:11,000 --> 00:17:13,000
that one, even though they are in the

377
00:17:13,000 --> 00:17:15,000
guidelines from organizations

378
00:17:15,000 --> 00:17:17,000
and organizations' responsibilities.

379
00:17:17,000 --> 00:17:19,000
So of all of these that I've

380
00:17:19,000 --> 00:17:22,000
mentioned, I would say that most

381
00:17:22,000 --> 00:17:25,000
organizations probably adhere to

382
00:17:25,000 --> 00:17:29,000
about 75% of them, and they fall

383
00:17:29,000 --> 00:17:32,000
behind on about 25% of them. So we

384
00:17:32,000 --> 00:17:37,000
really, as employees, need to keep

385
00:17:37,000 --> 00:17:40,000
our organizations honest and make

386
00:17:40,000 --> 00:17:43,000
sure that they are doing what they

387
00:17:43,000 --> 00:17:45,000
have to do and following some of

388
00:17:45,000 --> 00:17:47,000
these legal guidelines.

389
00:17:51,000 --> 00:17:55,000
One thing I want to stress is there

390
00:17:55,000 --> 00:18:02,000
is a financial hit on having

391
00:18:02,000 --> 00:18:04,000
your employees suffer from

392
00:18:04,000 --> 00:18:08,000
burnout. When I was building some

393
00:18:08,000 --> 00:18:12,000
of my deeper practices in the big

394
00:18:12,000 --> 00:18:15,000
fours, we have a very quick

395
00:18:15,000 --> 00:18:19,000
calculation for me to basically

396
00:18:19,000 --> 00:18:21,000
drum up support from senior

397
00:18:21,000 --> 00:18:24,000
leadership to support staff members

398
00:18:24,000 --> 00:18:27,000
in the practice. On the left

399
00:18:27,000 --> 00:18:29,000
hand side, I've got a graph here

400
00:18:29,000 --> 00:18:31,000
that basically shows the ideal

401
00:18:31,000 --> 00:18:35,000
scenario for growth by determining

402
00:18:35,000 --> 00:18:37,000
a small pod or small incident

403
00:18:37,000 --> 00:18:40,000
response, a quick response team of

404
00:18:40,000 --> 00:18:43,000
one senior with a couple of analysts

405
00:18:43,000 --> 00:18:48,000
following the trainee model.

406
00:18:48,000 --> 00:18:50,000
If this model works the way that it

407
00:18:50,000 --> 00:18:56,000
should, the economics behind that

408
00:18:56,000 --> 00:19:00,000
is a linear trajectory up. And for

409
00:19:00,000 --> 00:19:05,000
every senior with three analysts,

410
00:19:05,000 --> 00:19:07,000
they can generate quite a lot of

411
00:19:07,000 --> 00:19:11,000
revenue with extremely low cost as

412
00:19:11,000 --> 00:19:14,000
long as the seniors are providing

413
00:19:14,000 --> 00:19:16,000
most of the support to the junior

414
00:19:16,000 --> 00:19:19,000
analysts. And there is rotation

415
00:19:19,000 --> 00:19:22,000
amongst the resources so that you

416
00:19:22,000 --> 00:19:25,000
don't hit the burnout stage. On the

417
00:19:25,000 --> 00:19:27,000
right hand side is a more realistic

418
00:19:27,000 --> 00:19:33,000
model of what usually happens in a

419
00:19:33,000 --> 00:19:36,000
deferred practice. So what happens

420
00:19:36,000 --> 00:19:39,000
is that the seniors or analysts

421
00:19:39,000 --> 00:19:42,000
start to burn out. They quit or

422
00:19:42,000 --> 00:19:44,000
they leave the organization

423
00:19:44,000 --> 00:19:48,000
incurring a significant opportunity

424
00:19:48,000 --> 00:19:52,000
cost. And as such, organizations

425
00:19:52,000 --> 00:19:55,000
that suffer from this cannot take on

426
00:19:55,000 --> 00:19:59,000
any additional casework causing

427
00:19:59,000 --> 00:20:03,000
loss of potential revenue. And if

428
00:20:03,000 --> 00:20:06,000
your senior quits in the middle of a

429
00:20:06,000 --> 00:20:10,000
case, there could be some potential

430
00:20:10,000 --> 00:20:12,000
reputational damage. Now, this is a

431
00:20:12,000 --> 00:20:18,000
very, very rough kind of a projection,

432
00:20:18,000 --> 00:20:21,000
economic projection. Typically, when

433
00:20:21,000 --> 00:20:24,000
I present to my leadership teams, I

434
00:20:24,000 --> 00:20:26,000
would have a lot more modeling behind

435
00:20:26,000 --> 00:20:29,000
it with actual numbers, cost, training,

436
00:20:29,000 --> 00:20:33,000
as well as how much a senior

437
00:20:33,000 --> 00:20:35,000
analyst or a consultant can actually

438
00:20:35,000 --> 00:20:37,000
generate in terms of revenue per

439
00:20:37,000 --> 00:20:40,000
case. So this is just for

440
00:20:40,000 --> 00:20:42,000
illustration purposes. I want to show

441
00:20:42,000 --> 00:20:45,000
that, you know, an ideal scenario, it

442
00:20:45,000 --> 00:20:48,000
can be sustainable. It can be good

443
00:20:48,000 --> 00:20:51,000
business model. And on the right hand

444
00:20:51,000 --> 00:20:55,000
side, the ideal is to basically avoid

445
00:20:55,000 --> 00:20:57,000
or try to flatten a lot of those curves

446
00:20:57,000 --> 00:21:07,000
that we see up there. So here I want

447
00:21:07,000 --> 00:21:09,000
to talk about the stress to

448
00:21:09,000 --> 00:21:11,000
performance. Now we have to understand

449
00:21:11,000 --> 00:21:14,000
that every individual has a different

450
00:21:14,000 --> 00:21:16,000
amount of capacity and a different

451
00:21:16,000 --> 00:21:20,000
ability to handle or take on stress.

452
00:21:20,000 --> 00:21:22,000
In this particular case, you're really

453
00:21:22,000 --> 00:21:24,000
starting to look at the optimal stress

454
00:21:24,000 --> 00:21:26,000
levels for each and every one of your

455
00:21:26,000 --> 00:21:29,000
team members. So I'll give you an

456
00:21:29,000 --> 00:21:32,000
example. At the higher echelon or the

457
00:21:32,000 --> 00:21:35,000
bigger, the higher curve, that could

458
00:21:35,000 --> 00:21:38,000
be like a senior consultant. They may

459
00:21:38,000 --> 00:21:42,000
have more experience. They may have a

460
00:21:42,000 --> 00:21:45,000
better support structure. They may

461
00:21:45,000 --> 00:21:50,000
have more capacity to handle the

462
00:21:50,000 --> 00:21:54,000
stressful situations. A junior would

463
00:21:54,000 --> 00:21:58,000
maybe be at the lower curve. They do

464
00:21:58,000 --> 00:22:01,000
not have the capacity to handle as much

465
00:22:01,000 --> 00:22:06,000
of the workload. They tend to fall into

466
00:22:06,000 --> 00:22:09,000
I guess the stressful or the burnout

467
00:22:09,000 --> 00:22:11,000
stage is a lot faster because their

468
00:22:11,000 --> 00:22:16,000
curve is at a much lower intensity.

469
00:22:16,000 --> 00:22:20,000
Now, in this particular model, what

470
00:22:20,000 --> 00:22:23,000
we're really trying to do is shift

471
00:22:23,000 --> 00:22:27,000
left as best as we can. We really do

472
00:22:27,000 --> 00:22:29,000
not want to get into that red. Red would

473
00:22:29,000 --> 00:22:32,000
be all the red flags that would

474
00:22:32,000 --> 00:22:35,000
basically cause someone to not function

475
00:22:35,000 --> 00:22:37,000
anymore. And that's something that we

476
00:22:37,000 --> 00:22:39,000
are really trying to get out of. Now, if

477
00:22:39,000 --> 00:22:42,000
you start to see yourself in that stage,

478
00:22:42,000 --> 00:22:44,000
you really need to start looking at

479
00:22:44,000 --> 00:22:48,000
getting help. Because once you start

480
00:22:48,000 --> 00:22:50,000
taking on too much stress, sometimes it

481
00:22:51,000 --> 00:22:54,000
will overload your system. So the key

482
00:22:54,000 --> 00:22:56,000
here is to recognize where you are in

483
00:22:56,000 --> 00:22:59,000
this curve and try to bring yourself

484
00:22:59,000 --> 00:23:03,000
back left as best as you can. So how

485
00:23:03,000 --> 00:23:05,000
can you do that? And there are some

486
00:23:05,000 --> 00:23:08,000
methods that managers who are here

487
00:23:08,000 --> 00:23:13,000
that are attending this can implement

488
00:23:13,000 --> 00:23:16,000
in their organizations. So here are

489
00:23:16,000 --> 00:23:19,000
some of the ways that you could do. So

490
00:23:19,000 --> 00:23:21,000
what you could do is you could lead

491
00:23:21,000 --> 00:23:24,000
through some of this stress. And the

492
00:23:24,000 --> 00:23:27,000
key here is point number five. What

493
00:23:27,000 --> 00:23:29,000
you're trying to do is you're trying to

494
00:23:29,000 --> 00:23:32,000
shoot for that sustainable best effort.

495
00:23:32,000 --> 00:23:35,000
Sorry about that. Yeah. And what you

496
00:23:35,000 --> 00:23:37,000
want to do throughout all of this is

497
00:23:37,000 --> 00:23:40,000
constantly check in with your staff

498
00:23:40,000 --> 00:23:43,000
members. Be curious at what's going on

499
00:23:43,000 --> 00:23:47,000
in their lives. Listen to them. During

500
00:23:47,000 --> 00:23:49,000
that time, make sure you talk about

501
00:23:49,000 --> 00:23:51,000
stress. Hey, how are people's stress

502
00:23:51,000 --> 00:23:54,000
levels going? As part of this

503
00:23:54,000 --> 00:23:56,000
presentation, I put together a checklist

504
00:23:56,000 --> 00:24:01,000
which I took from a partner of mine.

505
00:24:01,000 --> 00:24:05,000
And the checklist is included as a

506
00:24:05,000 --> 00:24:09,000
PDF on the on stage, I believe, on the

507
00:24:09,000 --> 00:24:12,000
right hand side of the stage. So that

508
00:24:12,000 --> 00:24:14,000
this is something that you can download.

509
00:24:14,000 --> 00:24:16,000
And it's really just a checklist for you

510
00:24:16,000 --> 00:24:18,000
to kind of go through what kind of

511
00:24:18,000 --> 00:24:20,000
stressors are in your life. So as

512
00:24:20,000 --> 00:24:23,000
managers, I would highly recommend that

513
00:24:23,000 --> 00:24:25,000
you put together some some similar

514
00:24:25,000 --> 00:24:27,000
checklist so that you can talk to your

515
00:24:27,000 --> 00:24:30,000
staff about how they're feeling. What is

516
00:24:30,000 --> 00:24:32,000
their current stress level right now?

517
00:24:32,000 --> 00:24:35,000
And having that conversation as open as

518
00:24:35,000 --> 00:24:38,000
possible, real, really start to reduce

519
00:24:38,000 --> 00:24:40,000
some of those stress levels and at least

520
00:24:40,000 --> 00:24:42,000
help you identify. And then once you

521
00:24:42,000 --> 00:24:44,000
understand that there is an issue or a

522
00:24:44,000 --> 00:24:46,000
stress related issue that you can start

523
00:24:46,000 --> 00:24:49,000
to look at managing it. As managers,

524
00:24:49,000 --> 00:24:52,000
and in some cases as part of the legal

525
00:24:52,000 --> 00:24:55,000
requirements or guidelines, is your

526
00:24:55,000 --> 00:24:57,000
responsibility to manage your staff time

527
00:24:57,000 --> 00:25:01,000
as well. So look at how many hours each

528
00:25:01,000 --> 00:25:03,000
staff member is putting into their

529
00:25:03,000 --> 00:25:06,000
projects. Look at rotating them out if

530
00:25:06,000 --> 00:25:09,000
they are doing way too many hours per

531
00:25:09,000 --> 00:25:12,000
day. And last but not least, really

532
00:25:12,000 --> 00:25:15,000
advocate and support for those EAP

533
00:25:15,000 --> 00:25:18,000
programs that will help reduce some of

534
00:25:18,000 --> 00:25:21,000
the stress. And last but not least, really

535
00:25:21,000 --> 00:25:24,000
try to focus on that sustainable best.

536
00:25:28,000 --> 00:25:32,000
So as employees or as people, how do we

537
00:25:32,000 --> 00:25:36,000
identify the stressors that will

538
00:25:36,000 --> 00:25:39,000
lead us to burnout? Now the WHO has

539
00:25:39,000 --> 00:25:42,000
given us three factors. I think that is

540
00:25:42,000 --> 00:25:45,000
I think a very brief summary. I'm going

541
00:25:45,000 --> 00:25:48,000
to go into a lot more areas here that

542
00:25:48,000 --> 00:25:50,000
will help you identify what could

543
00:25:50,000 --> 00:25:53,000
potentially be an indicator. And the

544
00:25:53,000 --> 00:25:56,000
key here is really identifying those

545
00:25:56,000 --> 00:25:58,000
indicators. If you can find or identify

546
00:25:58,000 --> 00:26:01,000
these indicators ahead of time, it will

547
00:26:01,000 --> 00:26:04,000
allow you to have some strategies or

548
00:26:04,000 --> 00:26:06,000
tips that you can basically try to move

549
00:26:06,000 --> 00:26:09,000
left and mitigate some of this before

550
00:26:09,000 --> 00:26:12,000
it becomes a major issue. So the number

551
00:26:12,000 --> 00:26:15,000
one would be an emotional indicator.

552
00:26:15,000 --> 00:26:18,000
So things like chronic fatigue or feelings

553
00:26:18,000 --> 00:26:21,000
of tiredness, lack of energy, you don't

554
00:26:21,000 --> 00:26:23,000
want to get up in the morning and go to

555
00:26:23,000 --> 00:26:26,000
work. Those types of emotional indicators

556
00:26:26,000 --> 00:26:29,000
are very, very useful to identify that

557
00:26:29,000 --> 00:26:32,000
you are under stress and that you may

558
00:26:32,000 --> 00:26:35,000
potentially be facing a burnout situation.

559
00:26:35,000 --> 00:26:38,000
Other physical indicators such as

560
00:26:38,000 --> 00:26:41,000
sleep deprivation, headaches, muscle

561
00:26:41,000 --> 00:26:44,000
pain, and in some cases major

562
00:26:44,000 --> 00:26:47,000
illnesses. And I can tell you from my

563
00:26:47,000 --> 00:26:50,000
own experience, I, in my second

564
00:26:50,000 --> 00:26:53,000
burnout, I actually had a doctor telling me

565
00:26:53,000 --> 00:26:56,000
that I need to stop working. My health

566
00:26:56,000 --> 00:27:00,000
cannot take, you know, the 18 hours that

567
00:27:00,000 --> 00:27:03,000
I was pulling. And, you know, a medical

568
00:27:03,000 --> 00:27:05,000
professional, when a medical professional tells you

569
00:27:05,000 --> 00:27:08,000
that, you know, your work is causing you

570
00:27:08,000 --> 00:27:11,000
or creating illness, you need to stop.

571
00:27:11,000 --> 00:27:14,000
So that's my experience from that one.

572
00:27:14,000 --> 00:27:17,000
If you are developing

573
00:27:17,000 --> 00:27:20,000
and, you know, health problems related

574
00:27:20,000 --> 00:27:23,000
to your current work,

575
00:27:23,000 --> 00:27:26,000
you need to seek medical help.

576
00:27:26,000 --> 00:27:28,000
And if the doctor tells you the

577
00:27:28,000 --> 00:27:31,000
health problems, you need to stop.

578
00:27:31,000 --> 00:27:34,000
Other behavioral indicators,

579
00:27:34,000 --> 00:27:37,000
behavioral indicators, things like

580
00:27:37,000 --> 00:27:40,000
decreased performance. As you start to

581
00:27:40,000 --> 00:27:43,000
work the long hours, there will be

582
00:27:43,000 --> 00:27:46,000
times where your performance will start

583
00:27:46,000 --> 00:27:49,000
to decrease. And it's just a function

584
00:27:49,000 --> 00:27:52,000
of the ability for you to do things,

585
00:27:52,000 --> 00:27:55,000
right? It's economies of scale.

586
00:27:55,000 --> 00:27:58,000
The longer hours you work, the more tired you become,

587
00:27:58,000 --> 00:28:01,000
the less, the poorer the quality of your work.

588
00:28:01,000 --> 00:28:04,000
In some cases, the behavioral

589
00:28:04,000 --> 00:28:07,000
indicator is withdrawal. Effectively, you're

590
00:28:07,000 --> 00:28:10,000
so tired, you just don't want to do any more work.

591
00:28:10,000 --> 00:28:13,000
Or you would start to push work that you would

592
00:28:13,000 --> 00:28:16,000
normally do off to other colleagues.

593
00:28:16,000 --> 00:28:19,000
So those are other indicators that you should be aware of.

594
00:28:19,000 --> 00:28:22,000
Cognitive indicators, concentration.

595
00:28:22,000 --> 00:28:25,000
I'll tell you that I've suffered from this quite a bit.

596
00:28:25,000 --> 00:28:28,000
Someone will tell me something. Typically, I have

597
00:28:28,000 --> 00:28:31,000
pretty good memory. I would memorize it and I'd be able

598
00:28:31,000 --> 00:28:34,000
to bring it back out or regurgitate it. No problem.

599
00:28:34,000 --> 00:28:37,000
If I'm overworked or stressed, I have

600
00:28:37,000 --> 00:28:40,000
difficulty remembering things.

601
00:28:40,000 --> 00:28:43,000
And that's, like I said,

602
00:28:43,000 --> 00:28:46,000
another cognitive indicator. As you start to

603
00:28:46,000 --> 00:28:49,000
tire, your brain just stops

604
00:28:49,000 --> 00:28:52,000
becoming very efficient.

605
00:28:52,000 --> 00:28:55,000
The next other indicator changes in attitude.

606
00:28:55,000 --> 00:28:58,000
Oftentimes, I have high-performance staff

607
00:28:58,000 --> 00:29:01,000
members, and this is the same with me as well.

608
00:29:01,000 --> 00:29:04,000
We're typically very high-performance folks.

609
00:29:04,000 --> 00:29:07,000
We're very enthusiastic about the work that we do.

610
00:29:07,000 --> 00:29:10,000
We want to keep hospitals safe. We want to protect

611
00:29:10,000 --> 00:29:13,000
government agencies. We're usually very enthusiastic

612
00:29:13,000 --> 00:29:16,000
about it. But when we hit that, once we cross

613
00:29:16,000 --> 00:29:19,000
the line and start going towards the right-hand side,

614
00:29:19,000 --> 00:29:22,000
like our attitude starts to change,

615
00:29:22,000 --> 00:29:25,000
we lose our enthusiasm. We're not there

616
00:29:25,000 --> 00:29:28,000
100% of the time. Our interest in doing

617
00:29:28,000 --> 00:29:31,000
the work that we love to do previously just isn't there anymore.

618
00:29:31,000 --> 00:29:34,000
And again, that affects,

619
00:29:34,000 --> 00:29:37,000
like I said, our productivity and our work rate.

620
00:29:37,000 --> 00:29:40,000
And the last

621
00:29:40,000 --> 00:29:43,000
parts of indicators are social indicators.

622
00:29:44,000 --> 00:29:47,000
When you get tired,

623
00:29:47,000 --> 00:29:50,000
people get grumpy.

624
00:29:50,000 --> 00:29:53,000
I am definitely one that

625
00:29:53,000 --> 00:29:56,000
happens, too.

626
00:29:56,000 --> 00:29:59,000
And that sometimes causes conflicts with others.

627
00:29:59,000 --> 00:30:02,000
Because one word,

628
00:30:02,000 --> 00:30:05,000
one social cue,

629
00:30:05,000 --> 00:30:08,000
one physical sign,

630
00:30:08,000 --> 00:30:11,000
and it could create an argument.

631
00:30:11,000 --> 00:30:14,000
That has happened before and it will lead to

632
00:30:14,000 --> 00:30:17,000
conflict with others or

633
00:30:17,000 --> 00:30:20,000
withdrawal from social activities.

634
00:30:20,000 --> 00:30:23,000
Others would be

635
00:30:23,000 --> 00:30:26,000
and the last one would be the changes in work habits.

636
00:30:26,000 --> 00:30:29,000
As you start to overwork,

637
00:30:29,000 --> 00:30:32,000
you're going to have a very difficult time

638
00:30:32,000 --> 00:30:35,000
disassociating yourself from the work that you're doing.

639
00:30:35,000 --> 00:30:38,000
And that is typical in most high-performance staff

640
00:30:38,000 --> 00:30:41,000
members. They just can't let it go.

641
00:30:41,000 --> 00:30:44,000
And as managers as well as

642
00:30:44,000 --> 00:30:47,000
spouses, you need to really look at and see if

643
00:30:47,000 --> 00:30:50,000
hey, are you missing

644
00:30:50,000 --> 00:30:53,000
all of your meals today just so that you can finish

645
00:30:53,000 --> 00:30:56,000
up the last log that you're analyzing?

646
00:30:56,000 --> 00:30:59,000
Are you skipping out on going to bed

647
00:30:59,000 --> 00:31:02,000
today because you have to process

648
00:31:02,000 --> 00:31:05,000
another hard drive?

649
00:31:05,000 --> 00:31:08,000
Sometimes, like I said, staff members,

650
00:31:08,000 --> 00:31:11,000
individuals, they just want to push through and

651
00:31:11,000 --> 00:31:14,000
power through things. And that is not ideal

652
00:31:14,000 --> 00:31:17,000
because it will increase stress and it will lead to burnout.

653
00:31:20,000 --> 00:31:23,000
So what can we do

654
00:31:23,000 --> 00:31:26,000
to protect ourselves, to make ourselves

655
00:31:26,000 --> 00:31:29,000
better and try to get away

656
00:31:29,000 --> 00:31:32,000
from the right side of that

657
00:31:32,000 --> 00:31:35,000
curve? Well, there are five strategies

658
00:31:35,000 --> 00:31:38,000
that I'd like to share with you today.

659
00:31:38,000 --> 00:31:41,000
First one is self-care.

660
00:31:41,000 --> 00:31:44,000
Second one is hacking health.

661
00:31:44,000 --> 00:31:47,000
And I can tell you that we have a lot

662
00:31:47,000 --> 00:31:50,000
of industry folks here that are

663
00:31:50,000 --> 00:31:53,000
100% promoting that.

664
00:31:53,000 --> 00:31:56,000
Third one is maintain a good work-life balance.

665
00:31:56,000 --> 00:31:59,000
And this requires your organizations

666
00:31:59,000 --> 00:32:02,000
to be part of this. And in some cases,

667
00:32:02,000 --> 00:32:05,000
it is their responsibility, so you have to work with them

668
00:32:05,000 --> 00:32:08,000
and they have to work with you. Fourth one is building

669
00:32:08,000 --> 00:32:11,000
a support network around yourself that will help

670
00:32:11,000 --> 00:32:14,000
you gain the capacity and to

671
00:32:14,000 --> 00:32:17,000
increase your sustainable best.

672
00:32:17,000 --> 00:32:20,000
And last but not least, relaxation techniques

673
00:32:20,000 --> 00:32:23,000
that help you deal with the current

674
00:32:23,000 --> 00:32:26,000
situation. And I can tell you that

675
00:32:26,000 --> 00:32:29,000
we use some of these techniques and some of them are as simple

676
00:32:29,000 --> 00:32:32,000
as literally breathing deeply into a bag.

677
00:32:32,000 --> 00:32:35,000
And it does help as silly as it sounds.

678
00:32:37,000 --> 00:32:40,000
So, self-care techniques.

679
00:32:40,000 --> 00:32:43,000
Well, I mean,

680
00:32:43,000 --> 00:32:46,000
some of this seems very

681
00:32:46,000 --> 00:32:49,000
straightforward, but one is

682
00:32:49,000 --> 00:32:52,000
you need to understand and you need to identify

683
00:32:52,000 --> 00:32:55,000
that you're suffering from stress first and foremost.

684
00:32:55,000 --> 00:32:58,000
And you need to be aware of your own stress levels

685
00:32:58,000 --> 00:33:01,000
to get to a problem.

686
00:33:01,000 --> 00:33:04,000
Second part is there are some things that you could do

687
00:33:04,000 --> 00:33:07,000
to prevent burnout, so you need to take more active steps.

688
00:33:07,000 --> 00:33:10,000
We need to then

689
00:33:10,000 --> 00:33:13,000
establish routine, because let's be honest,

690
00:33:13,000 --> 00:33:16,000
as human beings, we love routine.

691
00:33:16,000 --> 00:33:19,000
And routine really helps us

692
00:33:19,000 --> 00:33:22,000
deal with things that come out of the ordinary.

693
00:33:22,000 --> 00:33:25,000
So, the more routine we have, the less surprises we have.

694
00:33:25,000 --> 00:33:28,000
The less surprises we have,

695
00:33:28,000 --> 00:33:31,000
the easier it is for us to build capacity

696
00:33:31,000 --> 00:33:34,000
to deal with other things that come out.

697
00:33:34,000 --> 00:33:37,000
And so, the

698
00:33:37,000 --> 00:33:40,000
135 rule or the 80-20 rule

699
00:33:40,000 --> 00:33:43,000
really comes into play, where 80% of your day

700
00:33:43,000 --> 00:33:46,000
is regulated routine, where to end

701
00:33:46,000 --> 00:33:49,000
20% of it could be emergencies,

702
00:33:49,000 --> 00:33:52,000
that would give you the capacity to deal with some issues,

703
00:33:52,000 --> 00:33:55,000
additional issues, that is.

704
00:33:55,000 --> 00:33:58,000
I would like to also tell people to kind of

705
00:33:58,000 --> 00:34:01,000
practice mindfulness.

706
00:34:01,000 --> 00:34:04,000
There is a whole slide on this one, but deep breathing I find

707
00:34:04,000 --> 00:34:07,000
is really helpful, especially when

708
00:34:07,000 --> 00:34:10,000
you're dealing with a stressful situation. So, just

709
00:34:10,000 --> 00:34:13,000
take one second, take a deep breath

710
00:34:13,000 --> 00:34:16,000
and then breathe out and

711
00:34:16,000 --> 00:34:19,000
think about what you're going to do next.

712
00:34:19,000 --> 00:34:22,000
Think about the strategies for the next little while.

713
00:34:22,000 --> 00:34:25,000
And if you have

714
00:34:25,000 --> 00:34:28,000
already a healthy lifestyle, that actually provides

715
00:34:28,000 --> 00:34:31,000
additional capacity for you to take on extra work

716
00:34:31,000 --> 00:34:34,000
or extra stressors in your life.

717
00:34:34,000 --> 00:34:37,000
But if you do not already have a healthy lifestyle,

718
00:34:37,000 --> 00:34:40,000
it will actually exacerbate the problem at hand.

719
00:34:40,000 --> 00:34:43,000
There is a technique

720
00:34:43,000 --> 00:34:46,000
to help us take regular breaks.

721
00:34:46,000 --> 00:34:49,000
The Pomodoro technique

722
00:34:49,000 --> 00:34:52,000
has actually been implemented in some pieces

723
00:34:52,000 --> 00:34:55,000
of software, and I can tell you that some of the

724
00:34:55,000 --> 00:34:58,000
forensic software have introduced some of this

725
00:34:58,000 --> 00:35:01,000
technique into the software for officer care.

726
00:35:01,000 --> 00:35:04,000
And what this technique does is basically this,

727
00:35:04,000 --> 00:35:07,000
when you choose or select a task

728
00:35:07,000 --> 00:35:10,000
that you work on, set a timer.

729
00:35:10,000 --> 00:35:13,000
Say for example, set a timer for 25 minutes,

730
00:35:13,000 --> 00:35:16,000
and this is the traditional technique.

731
00:35:16,000 --> 00:35:19,000
When the timer goes off,

732
00:35:19,000 --> 00:35:22,000
right, you can basically,

733
00:35:22,000 --> 00:35:25,000
sorry, when the timer is on, you're basically focusing

734
00:35:25,000 --> 00:35:28,000
on the task at hand. Once the timer goes off,

735
00:35:28,000 --> 00:35:31,000
you take a five minute break.

736
00:35:31,000 --> 00:35:34,000
Whether the 25 minutes is good for your

737
00:35:34,000 --> 00:35:37,000
own self, that's up to you.

738
00:35:37,000 --> 00:35:40,000
You can extend it, you can shorten it.

739
00:35:40,000 --> 00:35:43,000
Some folks that I work with

740
00:35:43,000 --> 00:35:46,000
like to extend the 25 minutes to two hours,

741
00:35:46,000 --> 00:35:49,000
for example, because it takes, say, two hours

742
00:35:49,000 --> 00:35:52,000
to process a hard drive. So during that time,

743
00:35:52,000 --> 00:35:55,000
they're working. Once that alarm goes off,

744
00:35:55,000 --> 00:35:58,000
they're off on a break. Software can do that

745
00:35:58,000 --> 00:36:01,000
for you. Your phones can be programmed

746
00:36:01,000 --> 00:36:04,000
to do that for you as well.

747
00:36:04,000 --> 00:36:07,000
I really recommend people look at using technology

748
00:36:07,000 --> 00:36:10,000
to regulate your breaks

749
00:36:10,000 --> 00:36:13,000
and to build that routine in there,

750
00:36:13,000 --> 00:36:16,000
as I mentioned earlier.

751
00:36:16,000 --> 00:36:19,000
The next one is to obviously schedule your time off

752
00:36:19,000 --> 00:36:22,000
in vacation so that you can recharge.

753
00:36:22,000 --> 00:36:25,000
You have to disassociate yourself from work

754
00:36:25,000 --> 00:36:28,000
responsibly. You've got to disconnect.

755
00:36:28,000 --> 00:36:31,000
I am guilty of this. I have always

756
00:36:31,000 --> 00:36:34,000
been guilty of this since until the very last

757
00:36:34,000 --> 00:36:37,000
minute. So I can tell you that from

758
00:36:37,000 --> 00:36:40,000
my own experience, it's something that I

759
00:36:40,000 --> 00:36:43,000
really try to remind people to do because

760
00:36:43,000 --> 00:36:46,000
I personally in the past have not done so.

761
00:36:46,000 --> 00:36:49,000
And last but not least,

762
00:36:49,000 --> 00:36:52,000
if you can maintain and nurture good relationships

763
00:36:52,000 --> 00:36:55,000
with your friends and families and colleagues,

764
00:36:55,000 --> 00:36:58,000
the reason for that is that you need that social support.

765
00:36:58,000 --> 00:37:01,000
You need to have this network so that if

766
00:37:01,000 --> 00:37:04,000
and when there's an anomaly in your behaviors,

767
00:37:04,000 --> 00:37:07,000
they typically are the first to notice it

768
00:37:07,000 --> 00:37:10,000
and they typically are the first to raise the red flag

769
00:37:10,000 --> 00:37:13,000
around you. And if it comes from family members,

770
00:37:13,000 --> 00:37:16,000
that alert, that notification

771
00:37:16,000 --> 00:37:19,000
isn't as harsh as

772
00:37:19,000 --> 00:37:22,000
if a medical professional tells you

773
00:37:22,000 --> 00:37:25,000
that you've got a problem.

774
00:37:25,000 --> 00:37:28,000
If you have the early detection, then to wait

775
00:37:28,000 --> 00:37:31,000
to the very last minute when things are starting to fall apart

776
00:37:31,000 --> 00:37:34,000
and you're too far to the right, that becomes

777
00:37:34,000 --> 00:37:37,000
a serious issue.

778
00:37:37,000 --> 00:37:40,000
Next, I want to talk about hacking health.

779
00:37:40,000 --> 00:37:43,000
Now, in our industry,

780
00:37:43,000 --> 00:37:46,000
there has been a lot of groups

781
00:37:46,000 --> 00:37:49,000
and movement towards hacking health.

782
00:37:49,000 --> 00:37:52,000
And so these are actually very fun

783
00:37:52,000 --> 00:37:55,000
events if you've got the time.

784
00:37:55,000 --> 00:37:58,000
And I feel like you do need to specify

785
00:37:58,000 --> 00:38:01,000
and build the time to do this

786
00:38:01,000 --> 00:38:04,000
and dedicate the time to do this.

787
00:38:04,000 --> 00:38:07,000
And it can be as simple as basically choosing an exercise

788
00:38:07,000 --> 00:38:10,000
that you like to do.

789
00:38:10,000 --> 00:38:13,000
Things like walking, for example.

790
00:38:13,000 --> 00:38:16,000
So instead of

791
00:38:16,000 --> 00:38:19,000
playing an extreme sport,

792
00:38:19,000 --> 00:38:22,000
it's a 15-minute walk around my office building

793
00:38:22,000 --> 00:38:25,000
because I enjoy taking a walk

794
00:38:25,000 --> 00:38:28,000
and it relaxes me and I'm not thinking about work

795
00:38:28,000 --> 00:38:31,000
during the time that I'm taking this walk.

796
00:38:31,000 --> 00:38:34,000
Other areas that you should also think about

797
00:38:34,000 --> 00:38:37,000
is what is the intensity level?

798
00:38:37,000 --> 00:38:40,000
So regular, moderated exercise

799
00:38:40,000 --> 00:38:43,000
is typically more beneficial for stress management

800
00:38:43,000 --> 00:38:46,000
than the occasional very, very intense workouts.

801
00:38:46,000 --> 00:38:49,000
So, again, back to that routine,

802
00:38:49,000 --> 00:38:52,000
build the regular exercise into

803
00:38:52,000 --> 00:38:55,000
your health routine so that you can really reduce

804
00:38:55,000 --> 00:38:58,000
the stress levels. And last but not least,

805
00:38:58,000 --> 00:39:01,000
simple one is just listen to your body, right?

806
00:39:01,000 --> 00:39:04,000
So if you overdo things,

807
00:39:04,000 --> 00:39:07,000
you're actually creating more stress for yourself.

808
00:39:07,000 --> 00:39:10,000
Say, for example, you did an intense workout

809
00:39:10,000 --> 00:39:13,000
and you injure yourself and the next day

810
00:39:13,000 --> 00:39:16,000
you respond to an IR.

811
00:39:16,000 --> 00:39:19,000
You're not doing yourself a service.

812
00:39:19,000 --> 00:39:22,000
Last but not least, squat up.

813
00:39:22,000 --> 00:39:25,000
Again, think about building that support network.

814
00:39:25,000 --> 00:39:28,000
So there are groups out there that promote this,

815
00:39:28,000 --> 00:39:31,000
such as Blue Team Fit, Defer Fit,

816
00:39:31,000 --> 00:39:34,000
even here at DEF CON.

817
00:39:34,000 --> 00:39:37,000
The DEF CON run was done a couple of mornings ago.

818
00:39:37,000 --> 00:39:40,000
And just today on the conference floor,

819
00:39:40,000 --> 00:39:44,000
I bumped into a new group, or at least a new group to me,

820
00:39:44,000 --> 00:39:47,000
which is the Hacking Your Health group.

821
00:39:47,000 --> 00:39:50,000
And their website is hackingyourhealth.com.

822
00:39:50,000 --> 00:39:54,000
So, again, there are many groups out there

823
00:39:54,000 --> 00:39:57,000
that promote this.

824
00:39:57,000 --> 00:40:00,000
And the best, I think the best notable

825
00:40:00,000 --> 00:40:03,000
in our industry for this is Hacking Dave.

826
00:40:03,000 --> 00:40:06,000
And he posts a lot about his workouts

827
00:40:06,000 --> 00:40:11,000
and how he hacks health while running a cybersecurity company.

828
00:40:11,000 --> 00:40:13,000
I highly recommend that you follow him

829
00:40:13,000 --> 00:40:16,000
and you look at the things that he's been doing.

830
00:40:16,000 --> 00:40:19,000
And last but not least, post your successes.

831
00:40:19,000 --> 00:40:22,000
Hey, I've done a workout today.

832
00:40:22,000 --> 00:40:26,000
You know, I ran two miles on the threat mill.

833
00:40:26,000 --> 00:40:29,000
I've taken a 15-minute walk.

834
00:40:29,000 --> 00:40:31,000
Post it.

835
00:40:31,000 --> 00:40:33,000
Reveal in your success.

836
00:40:33,000 --> 00:40:43,000
We need the achievements to lower our stress levels.

837
00:40:43,000 --> 00:40:45,000
Work-life balance.

838
00:40:45,000 --> 00:40:48,000
I feel like we talk about work-life balance a lot.

839
00:40:48,000 --> 00:40:54,000
And this one is, again, you know, pretty straightforward.

840
00:40:54,000 --> 00:41:01,000
We do need to look at marrying what organizations are responsible for

841
00:41:01,000 --> 00:41:04,000
and keeping our organizations honest.

842
00:41:04,000 --> 00:41:10,000
So, as an employee, absolutely, you got to start setting work limits

843
00:41:10,000 --> 00:41:13,000
if possible within your environment.

844
00:41:13,000 --> 00:41:15,000
Make sure there are clear boundaries.

845
00:41:15,000 --> 00:41:18,000
One really good one is cell phones.

846
00:41:18,000 --> 00:41:23,000
I personally forced my company to always pay for a work phone

847
00:41:23,000 --> 00:41:26,000
and my personal phone is my personal phone.

848
00:41:26,000 --> 00:41:29,000
What I would do is, for work, if I am on call,

849
00:41:29,000 --> 00:41:32,000
if I'm not on call, it stays off.

850
00:41:32,000 --> 00:41:35,000
And that way, if anybody needs to reach me,

851
00:41:35,000 --> 00:41:40,000
I have processes in place to pay all my second-in-command.

852
00:41:40,000 --> 00:41:42,000
You're not talking to me.

853
00:41:42,000 --> 00:41:46,000
You're talking to the other individuals that is on call.

854
00:41:46,000 --> 00:41:48,000
And learn to say no.

855
00:41:48,000 --> 00:41:50,000
I feel like as many performance individuals,

856
00:41:50,000 --> 00:41:53,000
learning to say no is difficult for us.

857
00:41:53,000 --> 00:41:56,000
But you really have to protect your time and your energy

858
00:41:56,000 --> 00:41:58,000
and you've got to decline things.

859
00:41:58,000 --> 00:42:01,000
I've talked to my bosses in the past where I say,

860
00:42:01,000 --> 00:42:03,000
do we really need to take on this case?

861
00:42:03,000 --> 00:42:07,000
Most of our team is already engaged on an engagement.

862
00:42:07,000 --> 00:42:10,000
If we add this to them, we have no capacity

863
00:42:10,000 --> 00:42:13,000
to deal with other emergencies that may arise.

864
00:42:13,000 --> 00:42:16,000
So, again, back to that 80% to 20% rule,

865
00:42:16,000 --> 00:42:19,000
effectively, I'm telling my boss we are at 80%.

866
00:42:19,000 --> 00:42:21,000
If you want us to take on anything else,

867
00:42:21,000 --> 00:42:24,000
there's a chance that if something comes sideways at us,

868
00:42:24,000 --> 00:42:27,000
we have no capability to deal with.

869
00:42:27,000 --> 00:42:28,000
Plan your day.

870
00:42:28,000 --> 00:42:30,000
Start to look at routines, right?

871
00:42:30,000 --> 00:42:34,000
Use calendars, use task management applications.

872
00:42:34,000 --> 00:42:36,000
There are tons of these things out there now

873
00:42:36,000 --> 00:42:40,000
that effectively can schedule all eight hours of your day

874
00:42:40,000 --> 00:42:42,000
very easily.

875
00:42:42,000 --> 00:42:45,000
And if you start seeing things start to overflow from those,

876
00:42:45,000 --> 00:42:47,000
you know you're stretched.

877
00:42:49,000 --> 00:42:53,000
Always look at setting long-term and short-term goals,

878
00:42:53,000 --> 00:42:55,000
both for your work and personal life.

879
00:42:55,000 --> 00:42:58,000
I typically have weekly meetings with my staff members

880
00:42:58,000 --> 00:43:00,000
to look at the short-term goals,

881
00:43:00,000 --> 00:43:02,000
things that we can win very easily,

882
00:43:02,000 --> 00:43:04,000
and as well as long-term projects and goals

883
00:43:04,000 --> 00:43:09,000
to try to keep things organized and in a routine.

884
00:43:09,000 --> 00:43:12,000
We're not getting things coming out of the woodwork

885
00:43:12,000 --> 00:43:15,000
and scaring us or, you know, having emergency work

886
00:43:15,000 --> 00:43:16,000
for no apparent reason.

887
00:43:16,000 --> 00:43:19,000
Try to schedule it all far ahead as we can.

888
00:43:19,000 --> 00:43:20,000
Communications, obviously.

889
00:43:20,000 --> 00:43:22,000
You do need to communicate all of these things.

890
00:43:22,000 --> 00:43:25,000
If you don't feel like you're capable of doing the work,

891
00:43:25,000 --> 00:43:29,000
know that your organization knows

892
00:43:29,000 --> 00:43:32,000
that they provide you the adequate training

893
00:43:32,000 --> 00:43:34,000
to be able for you to do the job.

894
00:43:34,000 --> 00:43:37,000
Supports such as the EAP programs

895
00:43:37,000 --> 00:43:39,000
and the wellness initiatives.

896
00:43:39,000 --> 00:43:44,000
I hope companies are providing those to their employees

897
00:43:44,000 --> 00:43:47,000
because that's very key.

898
00:43:47,000 --> 00:43:51,000
There's many times where I would utilize some of these programs

899
00:43:51,000 --> 00:43:55,000
so that I can seek medical or psychological help.

900
00:43:55,000 --> 00:43:58,000
And so those are very important programs.

901
00:43:58,000 --> 00:44:01,000
And I 100% want to make sure that you check out

902
00:44:01,000 --> 00:44:05,000
what you're entitled for within your organization's benefit plans.

903
00:44:05,000 --> 00:44:10,000
The last two here are ready for my own personal experience.

904
00:44:10,000 --> 00:44:14,000
Dealing with digital forensics and response perfection

905
00:44:14,000 --> 00:44:17,000
is something that we do strive for.

906
00:44:17,000 --> 00:44:21,000
However, it may be unrealistic,

907
00:44:21,000 --> 00:44:25,000
or at least we may set unrealistic standards for yourself.

908
00:44:25,000 --> 00:44:28,000
So really set achievable goals

909
00:44:28,000 --> 00:44:32,000
and then try to avoid things that you cannot achieve.

910
00:44:32,000 --> 00:44:34,000
Next, try to simplify your life.

911
00:44:34,000 --> 00:44:36,000
If you have a singular task,

912
00:44:36,000 --> 00:44:39,000
a singular goal, try to focus on those.

913
00:44:39,000 --> 00:44:42,000
Too often, I find folks try to multitask

914
00:44:42,000 --> 00:44:45,000
or juggle a number of different things at the same time.

915
00:44:45,000 --> 00:44:48,000
And those tend to fall apart pretty quickly.

916
00:44:48,000 --> 00:44:52,000
Now, not to say that you can't multitask.

917
00:44:52,000 --> 00:44:55,000
I've seen some folks do it very well.

918
00:44:55,000 --> 00:44:57,000
This is just coming from myself.

919
00:44:57,000 --> 00:45:00,000
I'm not a good multitasker.

920
00:45:04,000 --> 00:45:07,000
The next one is to really build a support network.

921
00:45:07,000 --> 00:45:10,000
So you really need to identify key members

922
00:45:10,000 --> 00:45:14,000
who are supporters of yourselves, allies of yourselves.

923
00:45:14,000 --> 00:45:18,000
I find that family really helps in this particular case.

924
00:45:18,000 --> 00:45:20,000
As you can see on the right here,

925
00:45:20,000 --> 00:45:23,000
from a quote from John Sullivan,

926
00:45:23,000 --> 00:45:27,000
his kids were his first indicator when, you know,

927
00:45:27,000 --> 00:45:30,000
they notified him that, hey, you're grumpy,

928
00:45:30,000 --> 00:45:33,000
and the first thing he did was unplug.

929
00:45:33,000 --> 00:45:35,000
That said, like I said,

930
00:45:35,000 --> 00:45:39,000
there is other folks that will support you.

931
00:45:39,000 --> 00:45:41,000
Friends, colleagues,

932
00:45:41,000 --> 00:45:45,000
they typically are the first to notice things off about you,

933
00:45:45,000 --> 00:45:48,000
and they will tell you in a nice way.

934
00:45:48,000 --> 00:45:50,000
Open communications.

935
00:45:50,000 --> 00:45:52,000
So try to be as open and honest and transparent

936
00:45:52,000 --> 00:45:56,000
with your peers and your friends and your family members.

937
00:45:56,000 --> 00:46:01,000
If you don't tell them that you're feeling down,

938
00:46:01,000 --> 00:46:06,000
it's a lot harder for them to get you help.

939
00:46:06,000 --> 00:46:09,000
Participate in professional networks.

940
00:46:09,000 --> 00:46:13,000
So join associations like DEFCON, DEFCON groups.

941
00:46:13,000 --> 00:46:15,000
If you're not feeling well,

942
00:46:15,000 --> 00:46:18,000
feel free to talk to somebody there.

943
00:46:18,000 --> 00:46:22,000
The rest, I think, are pretty straightforward.

944
00:46:22,000 --> 00:46:25,000
So take a look at regular check-ins,

945
00:46:25,000 --> 00:46:27,000
look at your company's EAP programs,

946
00:46:27,000 --> 00:46:30,000
seek professional help if you're feeling

947
00:46:30,000 --> 00:46:33,000
like you're on the right-hand side of those curves.

948
00:46:33,000 --> 00:46:35,000
If you need counseling or therapy,

949
00:46:35,000 --> 00:46:38,000
I highly recommend that you seek those professionals

950
00:46:38,000 --> 00:46:41,000
out and get a professional assessment.

951
00:46:41,000 --> 00:46:44,000
Last but not least, talk to a career coach.

952
00:46:44,000 --> 00:46:46,000
Maybe there is something in your personal life

953
00:46:46,000 --> 00:46:50,000
or maybe your career that could require some adjusting

954
00:46:50,000 --> 00:46:56,000
in order for you to manage and reduce your stress levels.

955
00:46:56,000 --> 00:47:00,000
This is the last part of my presentation.

956
00:47:00,000 --> 00:47:03,000
I find these work really well for me,

957
00:47:03,000 --> 00:47:08,000
especially when I'm in the middle of a 12- to 18-hour day.

958
00:47:08,000 --> 00:47:13,000
I'm on calls with government officials,

959
00:47:13,000 --> 00:47:18,000
everything's on fire, or hospital CEOs.

960
00:47:18,000 --> 00:47:21,000
Breathing exercises is huge for me.

961
00:47:21,000 --> 00:47:24,000
Taking a brief breath and then breathing out slowly

962
00:47:24,000 --> 00:47:27,000
and just thinking about what to do next

963
00:47:27,000 --> 00:47:31,000
is one that I find very, very useful.

964
00:47:31,000 --> 00:47:35,000
Another one is the progressive massage relaxation technique.

965
00:47:35,000 --> 00:47:38,000
What it means is I'm tensing all the muscles,

966
00:47:38,000 --> 00:47:40,000
typically in my shoulder and my neck.

967
00:47:40,000 --> 00:47:43,000
I tense it really, really hard, and then I relax them.

968
00:47:43,000 --> 00:47:46,000
And I do that for about 10 times.

969
00:47:46,000 --> 00:47:49,000
And after I've done that,

970
00:47:49,000 --> 00:47:53,000
it seems to bring my stress levels down.

971
00:47:53,000 --> 00:47:56,000
Meditation, not thinking about work,

972
00:47:56,000 --> 00:47:59,000
thinking about maybe my last vacation,

973
00:47:59,000 --> 00:48:03,000
visualizing that vacation also helps me

974
00:48:03,000 --> 00:48:06,000
not think about the stress that I have to deal with at work.

975
00:48:06,000 --> 00:48:08,000
Yoga is a pretty straightforward one.

976
00:48:08,000 --> 00:48:12,000
I've been dragged to yoga many times by HR folks.

977
00:48:12,000 --> 00:48:15,000
I find it very helpful just to be at those classes

978
00:48:15,000 --> 00:48:17,000
and not think about work.

979
00:48:17,000 --> 00:48:20,000
Self-massage, I have a terra-gun.

980
00:48:20,000 --> 00:48:22,000
I use it often.

981
00:48:22,000 --> 00:48:25,000
If you're sitting in front of a computer staring at a screen,

982
00:48:25,000 --> 00:48:28,000
I guarantee you your arms and your shoulders hurt a lot.

983
00:48:28,000 --> 00:48:31,000
You might want to use that. It's awesome.

984
00:48:31,000 --> 00:48:34,000
Aromatherapy, my wife has introduced me to this.

985
00:48:34,000 --> 00:48:36,000
Lavender is awesome.

986
00:48:36,000 --> 00:48:38,000
And if you've got one of those little machines

987
00:48:38,000 --> 00:48:43,000
that puff out the steam as well as the lavender smells, amazing.

988
00:48:43,000 --> 00:48:47,000
That basically concludes my presentation for today.

989
00:48:47,000 --> 00:48:50,000
If there are any questions, I am available.

990
00:48:50,000 --> 00:48:54,000
But before I go, I will leave you with some external resources.

991
00:48:54,000 --> 00:48:56,000
The self-care checklist is attached.

992
00:48:56,000 --> 00:48:58,000
And on the side of this stage,

993
00:48:58,000 --> 00:49:01,000
feel free to download it and use it for yourself.

994
00:49:01,000 --> 00:49:08,000
Now, why are we not using some resources that are already available to us?

995
00:49:08,000 --> 00:49:12,000
Well, I don't know why our industry doesn't do that.

996
00:49:12,000 --> 00:49:15,000
But you can take a look at what first responders,

997
00:49:15,000 --> 00:49:19,000
such as paramedics, firefighters have already in place.

998
00:49:19,000 --> 00:49:23,000
So the Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration

999
00:49:23,000 --> 00:49:28,000
actually has a guide to managing stress for those types of first responders.

1000
00:49:28,000 --> 00:49:32,000
We can learn lessons from their guide.

1001
00:49:32,000 --> 00:49:37,000
That said, the Canadian Red Cross and the Canadian Mental Health Association

1002
00:49:37,000 --> 00:49:42,000
have a number of indexes and quizzes that you can utilize

1003
00:49:42,000 --> 00:49:45,000
to gauge and identify your stresses.

1004
00:49:45,000 --> 00:49:52,000
Again, if you can identify your stress, you can then plan and manage it.

1005
00:49:52,000 --> 00:49:54,000
So that's all I have for you today.

1006
00:49:54,000 --> 00:50:00,000
If you have any questions, I am around to answer them.

1007
00:50:00,000 --> 00:50:13,000
Thank you for an excellent presentation.

1008
00:50:13,000 --> 00:50:26,000
For those who might want those slides, where they're posted is right here on this wall.

1009
00:50:26,000 --> 00:50:31,000
The wall to my right here on the side of the wall, there's three documents there.

1010
00:50:31,000 --> 00:50:35,000
You can click on and view and download them if you'd like.

1011
00:50:35,000 --> 00:50:46,000
Any questions for our speakers?

1012
00:50:46,000 --> 00:50:52,000
Quick question. In your research, have you come across any statistics

1013
00:50:52,000 --> 00:51:00,000
on drug and alcohol abuse as it relates to incident responders?

1014
00:51:00,000 --> 00:51:02,000
So here's an interesting one.

1015
00:51:02,000 --> 00:51:07,000
We actually haven't had a chance to collect statistics and evidence

1016
00:51:07,000 --> 00:51:12,000
for digital forensics and incident response personnel.

1017
00:51:12,000 --> 00:51:17,000
Now, if you look at the first responder groups, such as police, fire,

1018
00:51:17,000 --> 00:51:19,000
they actually do collect that.

1019
00:51:19,000 --> 00:51:24,000
Now, here's my challenge to you for the industry.

1020
00:51:24,000 --> 00:51:31,000
We really do need to have that sort of industry statistic and metrics

1021
00:51:31,000 --> 00:51:36,000
for us to be able to better deal with this situation that we have.

1022
00:51:36,000 --> 00:51:53,000
Because I can tell you that once we start getting those numbers, it may be quite alarming.

1023
00:51:53,000 --> 00:52:04,000
I'm curious if there's any initiative to help the general public.

1024
00:52:04,000 --> 00:52:09,000
As we become more and more dependent upon technology in our daily lives,

1025
00:52:09,000 --> 00:52:14,000
are we looking at the impact these, you know, cyber crimes and incidents

1026
00:52:14,000 --> 00:52:20,000
and outages have on the general public, especially our young folks?

1027
00:52:20,000 --> 00:52:22,000
No, good question.

1028
00:52:22,000 --> 00:52:28,000
I think the impacts haven't crossed into the general public just yet.

1029
00:52:28,000 --> 00:52:31,000
I think they are secondary impacts.

1030
00:52:31,000 --> 00:52:35,000
The main impact would be to the direct organization that have been hit by

1031
00:52:35,000 --> 00:52:40,000
or that have suffered the cyber crime.

1032
00:52:40,000 --> 00:52:44,000
So the most direct one would be obviously the financial impact.

1033
00:52:44,000 --> 00:52:54,000
Okay, for example, if the bad guys ransomware a financial institution.

1034
00:52:54,000 --> 00:53:01,000
Right. I'm thinking, you know, generalized anxiety about is the hospital system going to fail?

1035
00:53:01,000 --> 00:53:04,000
Is 911 going to fail again?

1036
00:53:04,000 --> 00:53:10,000
Are we looking at the impact of when 911 goes down?

1037
00:53:10,000 --> 00:53:12,000
How does that affect our community?

1038
00:53:12,000 --> 00:53:15,000
Are we offering resources? Are we addressing that?

1039
00:53:15,000 --> 00:53:17,000
Are we allowing it to be one of those?

1040
00:53:17,000 --> 00:53:22,000
I believe you talked about kind of like us suppressed stress.

1041
00:53:22,000 --> 00:53:27,000
Are we are we paying attention to that and monitoring it?

1042
00:53:27,000 --> 00:53:33,000
So it's interesting question you asked because in Canada, we actually did have a 911 outage.

1043
00:53:33,000 --> 00:53:37,000
It wasn't a cyber attack. It was actually an IT issue.

1044
00:53:37,000 --> 00:53:44,000
911 services was offline to Canadians across the country.

1045
00:53:44,000 --> 00:53:48,000
And yes, it does increase the stress levels.

1046
00:53:48,000 --> 00:53:54,000
In fact, it created some issues for people who were needing those services.

1047
00:53:54,000 --> 00:54:00,000
Do we have, like I said, research and statistics on it?

1048
00:54:00,000 --> 00:54:04,000
I don't know. I don't believe there is any that has been captured.

1049
00:54:04,000 --> 00:54:13,000
But the impact of that outage was very significant.

1050
00:54:13,000 --> 00:54:20,000
Thank you. I hope we consider things like that in the future and, you know, put forth resources into that type of research.

1051
00:54:20,000 --> 00:54:27,000
Because as we become more dependent upon it, it's, you know, it isn't impacting our lives when systems fail.

1052
00:54:27,000 --> 00:54:29,000
I 100% agree with you.

1053
00:54:29,000 --> 00:54:38,000
And, you know, having talks like this is really to raise that awareness and we need to all collectively start asking questions to our government agencies.

1054
00:54:38,000 --> 00:54:41,000
Hey, are we doing this and are we doing this right?

1055
00:54:59,000 --> 00:55:01,000
Thank you.

1056
00:55:29,000 --> 00:55:42,000
Thank you.

1057
00:55:42,000 --> 00:55:56,000
Our next speaker will be up in about 15 minutes.

1058
00:55:56,000 --> 00:56:05,000
A bunch of wonderful topics. Wow. I'm like bedazzled over here.

1059
00:56:05,000 --> 00:56:13,000
Yeah. And if there's any sections that you missed or would like to, you know, be able to pause and fast forward and rewind, this is available on YouTube.

1060
00:56:13,000 --> 00:56:24,000
So this entire event is streamed to YouTube and you can watch it there.

1061
00:56:43,000 --> 00:57:10,000
Thank you.

1062
00:57:10,000 --> 00:57:29,000
Thinking on that a little more talking about the economic impact of the stress and anxiety that, you know, we'll just say tech situations or tech outages in general can cause, you know, it really is and not talked about enough.

1063
00:57:29,000 --> 00:57:44,000
And when we look at things like attrition and losing employees and such and how often, you know, our tech issues are relating to that kind of mental fatigue, but it really is very interesting.

1064
00:57:44,000 --> 00:57:50,000
I appreciate you having a talk about it. It is something that we need to encourage people to think more on.

1065
00:57:50,000 --> 00:58:03,000
Yeah. And I think there needs to be more research on this. My ultimate goal here is to try to get, not just government agencies, I feel like government agencies can't really help us with this.

1066
00:58:03,000 --> 00:58:12,000
I feel like the industry itself has to come together and look at perhaps putting together a framework for us to work on.

1067
00:58:12,000 --> 00:58:21,000
And if the framework is successful, it may turn into a standard. Like, let's be honest, there's so many frameworks out there in cybersecurity.

1068
00:58:21,000 --> 00:58:38,000
We should have one that basically says let's look at stress reduction. Let's look at burnout prevention frameworks so that we can save our staff members because let's be honest, without our people, we can't make money.

1069
00:58:42,000 --> 00:58:45,000
Very true.

1070
00:58:45,000 --> 00:58:47,000
Oh, good.

1071
00:58:47,000 --> 00:58:52,000
Finally admitted that.

1072
00:58:52,000 --> 00:58:57,000
Hey, you're done.

1073
00:58:57,000 --> 00:59:09,000
Yeah, I wanted to ask like about the mindfulness and staying calm and everything. What happens to someone who's located in a country is at a war at a war. Sorry.

1074
00:59:09,000 --> 00:59:20,000
Like, just feeling that the major anxiety or something you can't really control how can you maintain balance in that situation. If you have any thoughts.

1075
00:59:20,000 --> 00:59:22,000
Oh, that's a tough question.

1076
00:59:22,000 --> 00:59:24,000
Yeah, I know. Sorry.

1077
00:59:24,000 --> 00:59:31,000
No, no, no, it's good. It's good. I actually have a friend. He's Ukrainian and.

1078
00:59:31,000 --> 00:59:34,000
Yeah, exactly. I'm talking about situations like that.

1079
00:59:34,000 --> 00:59:45,000
He's got similar and everything you don't know what's going to happen tomorrow. So how do you make long term plans when you don't know if you're going to lose your legs tomorrow or something? I don't know.

1080
00:59:45,000 --> 01:00:01,000
I 100% agree with you and I feel like if you have an employee that that is that has either family members or are impacted by by war, I would say that you should try to be closer to them be part of their support network.

1081
01:00:01,000 --> 01:00:23,000
If you start seeing things or their behavior change, like reach out to them and find out, I mean, you could find out that hey, they just found out some bad news, you know, from their country that maybe a family member got killed, and you should just be there for them.

1082
01:00:23,000 --> 01:00:30,000
Our heart definitely goes out to everyone struggling and more.

1083
01:00:30,000 --> 01:00:34,000
Sorry, someone else was speaking. I didn't want to interrupt. Go ahead.

1084
01:00:34,000 --> 01:00:42,000
No, I just wanted to say like, it's, it's one of the most like the simplest answers you can think of, but there's probably nothing more helpful than that.

1085
01:00:42,000 --> 01:00:46,000
Just lending an ear and I guess a shoulder.

1086
01:00:46,000 --> 01:00:48,000
Yeah.

1087
01:00:48,000 --> 01:00:59,000
And humans are complex, but I feel like there are some simple solutions such as being part of their support structure, just being there for them.

1088
01:00:59,000 --> 01:01:19,000
And if you're the employer, for example, look at providing them some assistance in terms of time off or a long term disability, that sort of thing so that they can go in and potentially deal with the issues at hand, such as seeking medical help or psychosocial help.

1089
01:01:19,000 --> 01:01:21,000
Okay, thank you.

1090
01:01:21,000 --> 01:01:32,000
From a research perspective, do we have any data on, you know, I don't know about y'all, but I work in tech, I work from home. We are dependent upon a number of tools.

1091
01:01:32,000 --> 01:01:39,000
Anytime there's a tool outage and it affects my employees ability to do their job. It's a high stress environment.

1092
01:01:39,000 --> 01:01:52,000
I would love to see those protocols you were talking about and research on developing skills and techniques to help us in management be able to, you know, offer the employees some relief during these periods of time.

1093
01:01:52,000 --> 01:01:58,000
Because of course we're, you know, we're, we're building bridges, we're doing everything we can to get these tools back online.

1094
01:01:58,000 --> 01:02:08,000
But it is highly stressful and we probably should have some, you know, procedures in place to help them deal with the stress of it as well.

1095
01:02:08,000 --> 01:02:19,000
Yeah, I find that, so for example, when we look at what happened with CrowdStrike, when teams, IT teams were working around the clock to restore some of these systems.

1096
01:02:19,000 --> 01:02:28,000
If you have the capacity of people, for example, you're able to rotate teams out, that's probably the most ideal.

1097
01:02:28,000 --> 01:02:37,000
But if you don't have that particular capacity, then look at either bringing additional or third party help in at a moment's notice.

1098
01:02:37,000 --> 01:02:41,000
Again, a lot of this requires preparation, right?

1099
01:02:41,000 --> 01:02:55,000
And that's one of the, one of the topics here as well is to kind of build that capacity ahead of time, be a bit more prepared by having some of these support structures in place before you have an emergency and try not to overload your team already.

1100
01:02:55,000 --> 01:02:59,000
So try to keep them at 80% as opposed to 100%.

1101
01:02:59,000 --> 01:03:08,000
I talk about these like as in like, you know, they seem like luxuries, but if we plan ahead and do things right, then we should be at that point.

1102
01:03:08,000 --> 01:03:15,000
But I understand that, you know, emergencies, things come out of us from the side.

1103
01:03:15,000 --> 01:03:20,000
Yeah, when technology like CrowdStrike happens, it's definitely a huge stressor.

1104
01:03:20,000 --> 01:03:24,000
My team, for example, worked around the clock to get things done.

1105
01:03:24,000 --> 01:03:32,000
And yeah, other than having additional staff members are bringing third party help.

1106
01:03:32,000 --> 01:03:39,000
Yeah, I'm not sure how management can deal with that in a more effective way.

1107
01:03:39,000 --> 01:03:49,000
Right. And my concerns are also not just for my IT tech team that's dealing with it head on, but employees in other sectors that are being affected, they're not being able to do their job.

1108
01:03:49,000 --> 01:03:54,000
They may not be directly responsible or directly be able to even assist.

1109
01:03:54,000 --> 01:04:02,000
But, you know, we need something to help combat their level of stress because they're unable to utilize the tool that they needed.

1110
01:04:02,000 --> 01:04:03,000
You know what I mean?

1111
01:04:03,000 --> 01:04:05,000
Yeah. Yeah.

1112
01:04:05,000 --> 01:04:06,000
It's a tough question.

1113
01:04:06,000 --> 01:04:13,000
I don't know. I don't quite have the full answer for you.

1114
01:04:13,000 --> 01:04:26,000
And like I said, this could be things that we continue our discussion on and try to find the answer for.

1115
01:04:26,000 --> 01:04:36,000
Well, I appreciate you bringing awareness to the subject and hopefully we will be able to, you know, move forward with progress in that area.

1116
01:04:36,000 --> 01:04:45,000
I'm hoping that maybe in a year or two you can do a follow-up talk and tell us about all the improvements that have been made in the industry.

1117
01:04:45,000 --> 01:04:47,000
We're a positive one. Thank you.

1118
01:04:47,000 --> 01:04:49,000
That's a good follow-up. Thank you.