是, 大臣 第3季第2集
迎难而上
本周四下午的重要新闻是政府改组问题 The main news this Thursday pm Is the big government re-shuffle.
来到我们演播室 探讨他的新帝国的是 I have with me, to discuss his new empire,
行政事务部大臣 詹姆斯哈克阁下 the Minister for Administrative Affairs, James Hacker.
据说您如今是市政厅 也是白厅的红人 It's been said that you are now Mr Town Hall as well as Mr Whitehall.
你太过奖了 阿路 Well, it's very flattering of you to put it that way.
不是我说的 哈克先生 是每日镜报说的 It wasn't me who put it that way, It was the Dally Mirror.
我只想确认下 您现在是我国最大的官僚 I just confirm that you are chief bureaucrat.
无稽之谈 本届政府以缩减官僚机构为己任 That's nonsense. This government believes in reducing bureaucracy.
我手头的数据 Figures I have here say
说您的部门员工上涨了10% that your department's staff has risen by 10%.
没那事 您的数据呢? Certainly not. What figure do you have?
我相信顶多是9.97% I believe the figure Is much more like 9.97.
有一种说法 哈克先生 Well, it has been suggested
说您的部门更乐于 that your department Is less interested
增加而不是减少官僚 in reducing bureaucracy than in increasing it.
是 不过这是由于我们得增加人手 Well, yes, but that's because we've had to take on more staff
才能最终裁员 in order to reduce staff.
此话怎讲? 道理很简单 I beg your pardon? it's common sense.
要多治病人就要多请医生 We need more doctors to cure more patents,
要多灭火就要多请消防员 more firemen to extinguish more fires.
那您要如何消灭地方官僚主义? How will you extinguish local government bureaucracy?
是很困难 所以要迎难而上 It's a challenge I'm looking forward to.
您同不同意 那里的官僚主义 Would you agree there's even more bureaucratic waste
比白厅还严重? there than in Whitehall?
对 这正是难处之所在 Yes, that's what makes it a challenge.
那您要怎样迎难而上呢? How will you meet the challenge?
眼下谈详细计划还为时过早 It's far too early to give detailed proposals.
我刚从唐宁街10号过来 I've just come here direct from Number 10.
莫不是9.97号? From number9.97, perhaps!
大政方针是要大刀阔斧消减浪费 The broad strategy Is to cut ruthlessly at waste
又不影响核心职能 while leaving essential services intact.
您前任也是这么说的 您是说他失败了? That's what your predecessor said. Did he fall?
请听我说完 因为这点必须表明 Let me finish. Because we must be absolutely clear
我也要跟你挑明了说 and I'm gong to be quite frank with you.
其实总而言之 我们的权利 我们的义务 The fact is that, at the end of the day, It is the right, the duty,
我们下院的民选政府 of the elected government in the House of Commons
就是要捍卫政府政策 政策选出了我们 to ensure government policy on which we were elected
政策委我们以重任 and for which we have a mandate,
也是政策 吸引人民投票 the policies for which the people voted,
政策同样 说到底 are the policies which, finally,
分割了国家这块蛋糕... when the national cake has been divided up...
容我提醒你 我们国家可不是聚宝盆 we, as a nation, don't have unlimited wealth?
我们的薪水不能超过收入 We can't pay ourselves more than we earn.
而政策... ...are the policies...
不好意思 你再问一遍? I'm sorry, what was the question again?
哈克先生 我问您是否同意 I was just asking you whether you would agree
您的前任失败了 that your predecessor had failed.
当然没有 恰恰相反 Certainly not. On the contrary.
正因为这项工作要求大力... It's just that this job Is an enormous...
迎难而上? 正是 Challenge? Exactly!
对了 昨天你那位上广播了 小汉 Incidentally, I heard your chap on the radio yesterday, Humpy.
说得好像要做点什么 He sounded as if he wanted to do things
用用你们新的地方政府管辖权 about your new local government remit.
他反复说要迎难而上 He kept calling it a challenge.
祝贺你 汉弗莱 多谢 Congratulations. Very kind.
你的分量就快超过阿诺德了 You may soon be even more important than Arnold!
对 我想...不不不 Yes, I expect... Er, no, no, no, no, no.
我话说在前头 汉弗莱 I do want to be quite clear about this.
要是我以为你会让哈克做任何事 I'd never have given you local government
当初我绝不会给你地方政府的 if I'd thought you'd let Hacker do anything.
他当然不会 没人做得到 这不是重点 小汉 He won't be able to. Nobody else has. That's not the point, Humpy.
经验表明 凡是地方政府改革 总反弹到我们头上 in the past all local government reforms rebound on us.
无论谁想出办法省钱 When anybody finds a way of saving money
或裁员 在地方政府有用 or cutting staff in local government,
在白厅也照样有用 It works for Whitehall just as well.
对 可地方政府机构臃肿 Yes, but local government Is extravagant,
尾大不掉 能力低下 而我们... overstaffed, incompetent, whereas we...
正是 我清楚我的职责 阿诺德 Exactly so. I know my duty, Arnold.
如果他非得找点事做 If he needs something to keep him busy,
你知道怎么办吧? you know what to do?
给他民防系统 Get him to look into civil defence.
民防? 你说核掩体? Civil defence? You mean fallout shelters?
是啊 政府早就断定 Governments long ago decided
民防这事无足轻重 civil defence was not a serious issue.
十万火急而已 Merely a desperate one!
最好留给那些肯定办事不力的人 It's best left to those whose Incompetence can be relied upon.
地方政府 Local authorities!
但政府的最高职责莫过于保卫人民 But the highest duty of government Is to protect its citizens.
所以这事得交给市政委员会 Presumably that's why they leave it to the borough councils!
多谢 先生们 Thank you, gentlemen.
大臣 打扰一下 我有个构想 Can I have a word about a proposal I worked out
我们并入行政部之前提出过 before we were transferred to this department?
你是? 我是...什么? And you are? I am... what?
对啊 你是什么? 什么? Yes, you are what? What?
什么? 我是卡赖特博士 What? I am Dr Cartwright.
我换个问法 大臣 你哪来的? If I may put it another way, what are you?
我圣公会的 I'm C of E.
不 大臣是问 你在这个部门任什么职务? what function do you perform in the department?
你不知道? 我知道 可大臣想知道 Don't you know Yes, but the Minister wants to know.
我是经济专家 I'm a professional economist.
地方行政统计主任 Director Local Administration Statistics.
我们接管前 地方行政统计部门就是你管啊 You ran the Local Authority Directorate before we took over.
当然不是 戈登爵士才是常任秘书 Dear me, no. Sir Gordon Reid was the Permanent Secretary.
我只是个副秘书 升职也没指望 I'm just Under-Secretary rank. I fear l shall rise no higher.
怎么? 唉 我是专家嘛 Why not? Alas, I'm an expert.
什么专家? 所有方面的专家 On what? On the whole thing.
都在这里 这是什么? it's all in here. What's this all about?
地方开支监控计划 Controlling council expenditure.
我提议凡地方政务委员会上马新项目 all council officials responsible for a new project
批准前先要制定衡量指标 List their criteria for failure before getting the go-ahead.
什么意思? 这是基本科学手段 What do you mean? it's a basic scientific approach.
做实验必须先建立 You must establish a method of measuring
测量成败的标准 the success or failure of an experiment.
做完之后才知道是成是败 When it's completed, you know if it's succeeded or failed.
在计划书里表明 "该计划不应超过多长时间" A propose states "This scheme would fall if it lasts longer than this
"花掉多少钱 或者动用多少人手" or costs more than that, if it employs more staff than these
"或者达不到其他既定标准" or falls to meet pre-set standards."
太棒了 可惜行不通 Fantastic! You could never make it work.
当然行的通 都在这里面 'Course you can. it's all in there.
伯纳 这是我周末头等大事 怎么不早提? This is my top priority reading. Why hasn't it been done before?
我也不知道 我提了几次了 I can't understand. I put it up several times
总是受到热烈欢迎 and it was always welcomed most warmly.
又总被更紧急的事挤掉 But there was always something more urgent on.
好 这回你找对人了 非常非常感谢 Well, you've come to the right place this time.
多谢 大臣 Thank you, Minister.
真是了不起 对吧伯纳? This is marvellous, isn't it, Bernard?
对吧 伯纳? Isn't it, Bernard?
哦 是很...这个... Oh, yes. Well, it's... er...
确实...非常好看 大臣 That is, it's... um... very well presented.
汉弗莱也会着迷的吧? 他马上就到 Humphrey will be fascinated. He's on his way here.
肯定会提意见的 什么意思 伯纳? He'll give his views. What are you saying?
对 我说过 他八成会... Yes, well, as I say, I think that he'll think
觉得这个...字打的很好 that it's beautifully... typed.
啊 大臣 啊 汉弗莱 快进来 Ah, Minister. Ah, Humphrey, come in.
请坐 谢谢 大臣 Sit down. Thank you, Minister.
好吧 地方政府 我们要做点什么? Now, local authorities. What are we gong to do?
大臣 这项新职能给您更多影响力 内阁资历 This new remit gives you more Influence, more Cabinet seniority.
可不用多为它费劲或者操心 But do not let it give you any more work or worry.
没那个必要 That would be foolishness.
汉弗莱 我们得马上制止那套铺张浪费 We've got to stop this appalling waste and extravagance.
为什么? Why?
为什么? 对 为什么? Why? Yes, why?
这是我的工作 我们是政府 Well, it's my job. We're the government.
选我们是要我们执政的 We were elected to govern.
诚然 大臣 Oh, really, Minister.
不过 您当然不想干涉民选的 Surely you won't tamper with the democratic rights
地方代表的民主权力吧? of freely-elected local representatives?
呃...当然不想 Well... no, of course not.
可地方政府不是民主 基层民主纯属胡闹 But local democracy's a farce!
大多数人不认得他们的委员是谁 Most people don't know who their councillor is.
地方选举里他们不投票 They never vote in a local election.
投的人也只当它是 Those who do regard it
中央政府的民意测验罢了 as a popularly poll for the government here.
地方政务委员会不对任何人负责 Local councillors are accountable to nobody.
他们是热心公益的公民 无私奉献出业余时间 They're public-spirited citizens sacrificing spare time.
你见过他们吗? 不得已的时候见过 Ever met any? When there was no alternative.
一半人是好管闲事的自大狂 They're either busy bodies on an ego trip
另一半只想捞点好处 or in it for what they can get out of it.
也许他们该进下院 Perhaps they ought to be in the House of Commons.
我是说 去见识真正的官员怎么办事 I mean, to see how a proper legislative assembly behaves.
反正我要管管他们 我有个计划 I'm gong to get a grip on them. I have a plan.
您有个计划? You have a plan?
对 Yes.
我要规定 任何地方官员 I'm gong to insist that any local official
上马新项目 预算超过... who puts up a plan costing more than...
就说1万磅吧 必须制定衡量指标 say... 10,000 must accompany it with failure standards.
制定什么? With what?
定个声明 说失败的标准 With a statement saying he will have failed
就是没能达到...既定目标... If his project does not achieve certain... pre-set results...
或超过既定时间 人员 或预算限制 or exceeds... fixed time or staff or budget Limits.
这种危险的胡闹 您从哪里得来的? Where did you get the idea for this dangerous nonsense?
从这个部...某员工 From someone... in the department.
大臣 我警告过您 和员工直接对话 I have warned you before about the danger of speaking
后患无穷 to people in the department!
我恳求您别踏进地方政府的地雷阵 I implore you to stay out of the minefield of local government.
这是政治坟场 It is a political graveyard.
对不起 汉弗莱爵士 Excuse me, Sir Humphrey,
地雷阵里不能建坟场 you cannot have a graveyard in a minefield
不然尸体会... because all the corpses would... powww!
是你给我揽的权限 你说的 You got me this job, you said.
可我没指望您做什么实事 But I didn't expect you to do anything.
您一向不做实事啊 I mean, you've never done anything before!
你的牢骚我一概不听 算我求您... I am deaf to your complaints. Please, I beg you...
不行不行 汉弗莱 No, no, no, no, Humphrey.
我要求立即拟定详细建议 I want specific proposals straight away.
还有近期计划 马上就给地方执行 And immediate plans For their implementation.
真不知道你着什么急 What's the fuss about?
我只是要地方政府定指标 又不是要白厅 I'm only proposing for local government, not Whitehall.
不过话说回来... Though come to think of it...
大臣 如果您非要干涉地方政府 If you insist on interfering in local government,
我能不能建议一个很刺激选票的角度? may I make a suggestion that could prove a vote winner?
汉弗莱 我再不想听... Humphrey, I want to hear no more about...
刺激选票? Vote winner?
地方政府有个方面急需关注 An area of local government that needs urgent attention.
什么? 民防设施 What? Civil defence.
你说核掩体? 那纯粹是个笑话吧 You mean fallout shelters? Surely they're just a joke.
正是 大臣 眼下是个笑话 Precisely, Minister. At the moment, they are a joke.
被地方官员拖着后腿 可是 Local authorities are dragging their feet,
任何政府的最高职能 but the highest duty of any government
莫过于保护人民 Is to protect its citizens.
有人说建造掩体让核战争更可能发生了 Some think building shelters makes nuclear war more likely.
有核武器 当然得有核掩体 If you have the weapons, you need the shelters.
有时我怀疑我们要核武器干嘛 Sometimes wonder why we need the weapons.
大臣 您不是片面限武派吧? Minister, you're not a unilateralist?
这个...我也说不好 Well... I sometimes wonder.
那您得赶紧辞掉公职 Then you must resign from the government!
啊 没有没有 还没到那个地步 Ah, no, no, no, no, no, no. I'm not that unilateralist.
不过美国会替我们防备俄国的吧 America will protect us from the Russians.
俄国 谁提俄国了? Who's talking about the Russians?
独立核威慑... 那是防备法国的 Well, the independent deterrent. its against the French!
法国? The French?
真是骇人听闻 怎么? But that's astounding! Why?
他们是盟国 是友邦啊 眼下是 Well, they're our allies, our partners. They are now.
可过去900年 他们一直跟我们作对 But they've been our enemies for most of the past 900 years.
他们有核弹 我们也得有 If they've got the bomb, we must have the bomb!
如果是防法国 对啊 这就说通了 If it's for the French, Makes a lot of sense.
对啊 法国佬信不过 可不是 Yes. Can't trust the Frogs. You can say that again!
不过 公众越来越担心核弹 There is increasing public concern about the bomb.
如果他们看见我在这块出力... If I were to be seen to be doling something about it...
对啊 我明白你的意思了 I see what you mean.
路德维克肯尼迪要做一个BBC民防纪录片 Ludovic Kennedy is preparing a BBC documentary on civil defence
大概会批评现状 likely to be critical of the current situation.
可如果您在采取决定性措施... If you were seen to be taking decisive measures...
对 正是 Right, yes.
阿路总被我玩得团团转 I always handle Ludo so frightfully well.
好吧 从哪里入手? 大臣 我有个建议 Right, well, where do we start? Just a suggestion.
伦敦泰晤士沼自治市 The London Borough of Thames Marsh
比全国各地区民防花销都要少 spends less on civil defence than any other authority.
来个部门级视察怎样? A ministerial visit, do you think?
是本斯坦利那个市 一撇小胡子那个? That's Ben Stanley's borough, with the wispy moustache,
媒体公敌? who the press all hate.
有道理 伯纳 马上去安排 Good point. Get onto it straight away.
让比尔通知到所有媒体 Get Bill to make sure the press knows about this visit.
告诉他们 我夜不能寐 Tell them I lie awake at night
为泰晤士沼居民的防卫而忧心 worrying about the defenceless citizens of Thames Marsh.
您有吗 大臣? Do you, Minister?
现在有了 Well, I will now.
伙计 你凭什么认为 What makes you think
你能从白厅空降下来 you can come swanning down here from Whitehall
教训我们怎么管理自治市? and tell us how to run our borough?
我没从白厅空降下来 I'm not swanning down from Whitehall.
我只问你 为什么不像全国其他市 I'm asking you why you've done less than any other borough
那样保护选出你的人民? to protect the people who elected you?
简单 没钱嘛 没钱去找啊? Simple. We can't find the money. Why don't you try looking for it?
好主意 停掉学校午餐 不买教科书? Oh, that's great! Stop school meals, buy no textbooks?
抽掉养老金? 我能告诉你去哪找 Turn OAPs out into the cold? I can tell you where to find it.
你能? 对 You can? Yes.
告诉他 卡赖特博士 Tell him, Dr Cartwright.
你们可以取消计划中的新展馆 Scrap the plans for the new exhibition centre
以及人工冲浪斜坡 涡流泳池 with the artificial ski slope and jacuzzi pool.
关闭女权戏剧中心 Close the Feminist Drama Centre,
市政委员会周报和月刊 the council's weekly newspaper and magazine
福利分配研究部 and the Welfare Rights Research Department.
委员娱乐津贴可以减半 You can halve the members' entertainments allowance,
卖掉市长第二台豪华轿车 sell the Mayor's second Daimler,
新市政大楼工程可以延期 postpone the building of the new town hall,
取消20名委员去牙买加的公款考察 and cancel the 20 councillors' mission to Jamaica.
关闭同性恋治丧辅导中心 And close the Gay Bereavement Centre.
5年能省下2100万磅基本支出 That'll save 21 millions on capital account
75万磅年度支出 and 750,000 a year on revenue account.
年度支出 Revenue account.
太荒唐了 怎么? That's just stupid! Why?
这是对弱势群体基础服务的剥削 Well, it's depriving the disadvantaged of indispensable services!
涡流泳池? 我不在乎有没有钱建掩体 Jacuzzi pools? I don't care if we can afford a shelter.
我们是片面限武市 不相信核战争 This is a unilateralist borough. We do not believe in nuclear war.
斯坦利先生 我也不相信核战争 I don't believe in it either,
但核掩体是政府政策 but the provision of shelters Is government policy.
不是泰晤士沼政策 It is not Thames Marsh policy.
泰晤士沼和苏联没矛盾 Thames Marsh has no quarrel with the USSR.
又不是只防备苏联 It's not just the USSR we're frightened of.
还得考虑法... It could be the Fre...
什么? 烦人的中国人 The who? The... frigging Chinese!
如果俄国人真打来 是不是要说 If the Russians do invade us, I suppose they'll say,
"且慢 我们跟泰晤士沼没矛盾" "Hold on, we're not at war with Thames Marsh.
"算啦同志们 转道去切尔西吧" Right, comrades, let's annex Chelsea instead."
伯纳? 对不起 大臣 您可能想知道... Excuse me, Minister. I think you may be interested in...
斯坦利先生 看来归根结底 Mr Stanley, it appears that you would not be
您是壮烈牺牲不了啦 called upon to make the supreme sacrifice.
怎么讲? 这市政厅下头有个掩体吧? What do you mean? Is there a shelter under the town hall?
是吗? Well, is there?
不是我们建的 你们也没拆 We didn't build it! You maintain it.
又挺小的 里面有你的位置吧? it's only a small one. And there is a place in it for you?
我勉为其难地接受劝告 I was persuaded, with deep reluctance,
认为保护我自己至关重要 that my preservation was a necessity
符合本市全体纳税人的利益 in the interests of the ratepayers of Thames Marsh.
你为别的重要人员做了哪些防范呢? And what provision have you made for other essential persons?
医生 护士 急救队 消防员 Doctors, nurses, firemen.
那些人重要性恐怕不比委员差? People who might be almost as important as councillors.
有个委员是搞化学的 One of them's a chemist!
好啊 核难临头 阿司匹林最有用了 Great. Nothing like aspirin for the nuclear holocaust.
你那位在泰晤士沼出尽了风头吧? Your chap had a publicly triumph down at Thames Marsh.
是啊 大获全胜 Oh, yes, tremendous.
你倒不怎么替他高兴 小汉 You don't sound appropriately happy for him.
问题在于 他自以为有了成就 Trouble is he thinks he's achieved something.
太好了 Splendid.
大臣自以为有成就 日子就好过多了 Life is easier if ministers think they achieved something.
不闹腾 不发脾气 Stops them fretting. No tantrums.
对 可他现在要实施第二项构想 Now he wants to introduce his next idea.
一个大臣有两项构想 A minister with two ideas.
还真是前无古人呢 I can't remember when we last had one of those.
哦 不是他自己想的 Oh, it's not his own.
他想设定衡量指标 He wants to introduce failure standards
评估所有1万磅以上的地方项目 on all council contracts over10,000
还要指明一名官员负责 and make a named official responsible.
汉弗莱 我知道 Humphrey! I know.
又是那个卡赖特的胡话 还以为戈登消灭掉了 Cartwright's idiot scheme! I thought Gordon had squashed it.
他跑来找我们了 He's come over to us now.
秘密跟大臣勾兑 Slipped the scheme to the minister privately,
牛皮纸袋 私相授受 under plain cover!
你知道这会轮到我们吧 一旦你预先 It'll be us next. Once you specify in advance
给一个项目既定目标 what a project's supposed to achieve
还有责任人负责 and whose responsibility it is to see that it does,
整个体制将毁于一旦 the entire system collapses.
你就掉进了专业管理的泥潭 You're into the squalid world of professional management.
对 我全力向他解释了 I know. I've tried to explain to him.
我反复告诉他 他的新职责 I have pointed out that his new responsibilities
是用来享受的 不是劳心劳力的 我不明白 were for enjoying, not exercising. I don't know.
我们每隔两三年就把官员轮一圈 We move our officials round every 2 or3 years
就是要避免这种个人责任的废话 to stop this personal responsibility nonsense.
若真实现 今后每两周都得调动了 If this happened, we'd be posting everybody once a fortnight.
得拦住他 他下一站去哪出风头? He must be stopped. What's his next little publicly trip?
明天他要把这次胜利重温一遍 Well, tomorrow he's living his little triumph over again.
跟路德维克肯尼迪录电视采访 He's recording a TV interview with Ludovic Kennedy.
民防的纪录片 A documentary on civil defence.
也许他该拿到份档案 Supposing he had a dossier
里头写着地方政务委员 on the curious ways in which local councillors
如何胡花国防预算 spend their civil defence budgets.
那有什么用? 我有个构想 How would that help? I've got an idea.
也许你该去当大臣 Perhaps you ought to become a minister!
开玩笑的 阿诺德 Um... just a joke, Arnold.
预备 演播室准备开机 Stand by, studio. We're about to record.
真少见 肯尼迪先生 大臣也有机会 A change for a minister to be given a chance
谈谈成功的事了 to talk about something that's a success.
在BBC里太少见了 政策变了吗? Most unusual for the BBC. Is this a change of policy?
...2...1 ...2... 1.
大臣 您最近一直声称 You've been claiming recently
您和地方政府的交往中 that in your dealings with local authority,
民防方面有了些成就 you've been making progress as regards civil defence.
不过这恐怕是夸大宣传吧? Surely this has been more in publicly than achievement?
没有没有 阿路 No, no, no, no, Ludo.
当局已经被迫直面问题了 Authorities are being made to face up to these issues
正因为我们掀起的公众兴趣 because of the interest we have generated.
你同意了 你的成就是宣传上的 You're agreeing. Your success has been a publicly success.
这么说也对 可实质改变也在进行 Well, yes, but things are changing.
泰晤士沼如何了? 泰晤士沼 好例子 Well, what about Thames Marsh? Ah, Thames Marsh
我跟媒体说过 他们只有一个掩体 As I said in the press, they have one shelter.
专门留给本斯坦利 市政委员长 A place in it is reserved for Ben Stanley, council leader,
他拒绝给其他人修掩体 who refuses to build shelters for others.
这是不是有点伪善呢? Don't you think that's hypocritical?
理所当然 大臣 可以指望 Surely it's reasonable to expect
一位民选代表有机会幸存下来吧 that one of our elected representatives should survive.
不然谁来执政? 在核灾难之中 Who is to govern otherwise? In the event of a nuclear holocaust
当然 我们都企盼它永不发生 and, of course, we all pray that such a thing will never happen
也许有些人比政客更重要 there are perhaps more important people than mere politicians.
医生 护士 急救队 等等 Doctors, nurses, ambulance men, and so on.
从事基础服务的人 All people who run essential services.
可是据我所知 大臣 Correct me if I'm wrong,
首相本人和内政大臣 but is it not a fact that the PM and Home Secretary
不也在政府掩体里留有位置吗? have places reserved for them in government fallout shelters?
这完全是两码事 That is completely different.
怎讲? How
这个 总得有人管理...你看... Well, there has to be someone to... run the... you know.
大臣 您刚刚说政客 Minister, you're saying political leaders
应该把位置让给医生护士 should give up their places for doctors and nurses.
这个观点您向首相和内政大臣提了吗? Have you put this idea to the PM and the Home Secretary
我认为我们切不可把重要问题 I think we ought to be careful not to trivialise
简单化 路德维克 what is a very serious Issue, Ludovic.
我再举个例子 I'll give you another example.
我刚听说 有个市的委员 I know of a borough which sent councillors,
拿着纳税人的钱 去加州考察掩体 at the ratepayers' expensive, to California to look at shelters.
但考察回来却无事可做 But they couldn't do anything about it
因为整个三年的民防预算 because they'd spent the entire civil defence budget
都在旅行中花光了 for three whole years on the trip!
真让人震惊 震惊 How shocking. Shocking.
谢谢 大臣 对了 节目录的怎样? Thank you, Minister. By the way, how did the recording go?
本斯坦利的掩体问题有点麻烦 Well, I got into a bit of bother over Ben Stanley's bunker.
我说政客没有医生重要 之类之类 I said politicians weren't as important as doctors and so on.
是吗? Did you?
于是他问 Then he said
"首相的政府掩体又怎么说?" "What about the PM's place in the government shelter?"
您说什么? 当然 我岔开了 And what did you say? I got out of it.
还满巧妙的 Quite cleverly, actually.
就是不知道首相会不会高兴 I'm not too sure how happy the PM will be about it.
然后我又想起一件妙事 一群市政委员 Then I recovered with a marvellous story about some councillors
跑到加州去考察掩体 who went to California to look at shelters
游山玩水 花掉了 and spent three entire years of
三年的民防预算 the civil defence budget on the jaunt!
能否问下这例子哪来的? 对 哪来的? May I ask where that came from? Yes. Where did that come from?
民防理事会简报里的 大臣 From the Civil Defence Directorate.
他们一定听说了您要上节目 They knew you were doling the interview.
好吧 大臣 您当然知道您在干什么 Oh, well. Anyway, Minister, I'm sure you know what you're doling.
汉弗莱 你只在 Humphrey... you only say that
我大难临头的时候才这么说 when I've made an appalling cock-up.
大臣您知道 那个市里 You do know the borough in question
有首相的选区 contains the PM's constituency...
而首相的选举助理 and that the PM's election agent
正是那个代表团团长? was the councillor who led the delegation?
这是开玩笑吧? That was just a joke, wasn't it?
10号把消息压了几个星期 不过 Number 10 have been trying to keep it quiet.
算了 纸包不住火啊 别 别 Oh, well, truth will out. No, no, no!
不行 绝不能捅出去 会被当成人身攻击的 No, no, no, it mustn't out. It might look like a personal attack.
你知道首相对忠诚多敏感 You know what the PM's like about loyalty.
汉弗莱 这个访谈绝不能播 This interview must not go out.
可惜啊大臣 我没时间 我得走了 Well, unfortunately, I haven't the time, I must be gong.
汉弗莱 我...我命令你 汉弗莱 Humphrey, I... I... I... I'm ordering you, Humphrey.
唉 正是您命令我走的啊 怎么? Alas, your orders are calling me away. What do you mean?
您的计划 设立 Your scheme for imposing
地方政府衡量指标 这太复杂 failure standards on local councils is very complex.
您要求马上拿出计划 You asked for proposals straight away.
让我一刻也不得闲 It's taking every moment of my time.
要帮忙也有心无力了 Much as I would like to help.
话说回来 如果衡量指标的事 However... if implementing failure standards
不催那么急... were not quite so urgent...
你是说 你能拦下电视节目? You mean, you can stop this broadcast?
大臣 我们不能审查BBC Now, Minister, we cannot censor the BBC,
不过我刚好要和他们政策部主任吃午餐 but I happen to be lunching with the BBC's Director Policy.
也许您愿意一起来 可要是不能审查... Perhaps you'd care to join us. But if we can't censor them...
我们可以让他们自动自发撤掉它 We could persuade them to withdraw programmes voluntarily
只要证明播出节目有悖公众利益 once they realise that transmission Is not in the public interest.
当然有悖我的利益... Well, it's not in my interest...
而我代表公众 所以就有悖公众利益 and I represent the public, so it's not in the public interest.
这理由倒很有创意 That's a novel argument.
还真没对他们用过 对吧? We haven't tried that on them before. Have we?
抱歉 哈克先生 BBC不会向政府压力低头 The BBC cannot give in to government pressure.
这事先放着好吗 不 别 Let's leave that on one side... No, no!
这事先放着好吗? 拜托 大臣 Let's leave that on one side, shall we? Please, Minister.
弗兰克 能再问件事吗? Frank, could I raise something else?
有很多人在担心 There is considerable disquiet
BBC对政府的敌对态度 about the BBC's attitude and hostility towards the government.
纯粹胡说八道 真的吗? But that's absurd. Is it?
他们记录了BBC近来 They've been documenting Instances of bias
报道中的偏见 in BBC current affairs.
瞒报有利新闻 Favourable news stoles not reported.
对了 刻意夸大 Oh, yes. Excessive publicly
外国的反英论点 for other countries' cases against Britain.
尤其是我们的共同市场敌人... Especially our Common Market enemies...
呃 盟友 ...um... partners.
哦 对了 Oh, yes.
针对首相的笑话 Jokes against the Prime Minister.
过分宣传反政府示威 Unnecessary publicly For anti-government demonstrations.
大臣们提出的被拒掉的节目 And ministers' programme suggestions not accepted.
恐怕其它的我包里放不下了 I had no room in my case for the others.
可我们当然对这些都有答复的 I'm sure we have answers to all these.
BBC总有答复 傻不傻另当别论 The BBC's always got answers. Silly ones.
当然 公平起见 我还得警告你 Yes, of course. I thought it fair to warn you
有人提了些问题 that questions are being asked.
什么问题? 比如说 What sort of questions? Well, for example,
国会的电视直播 were Parliament to be televised,
是不是应该委托给独立电视台 whether it shouldn't be entrusted to ITV.
开玩笑吧? 还有BBC行政部门 You can't be serious? And whether the BBC administration
有没有在削减人员和场所经费 Is making the cuts in jobs and premises
跟我们政府里一样 that we've endured in government.
要不要组建委员会审查BBC的收支? Should a select committee scrutinise BBC expenditure?
这是无法容忍的侵略 可不是 That would be an intolerable intrusion. Well, of course.
还有包厢也是个大问题 Then there's this extraordinary matter of boxes
赛马会 网球场 剧院 音乐会 at Ascot, Wimbledon, Lords, Covent Garden.
对 这是工作需要 Ah, yes, those are a technical requirement
节目制作和播出人员必须得有 for the production and engineering staff.
国税局的报告显示 Reports from the inland Revenue suggest
这些制作和播出人员 that the production and engineering staff
都举着香槟酒杯 are all holding champagne glasses.
身边陪伴的是他们的妻子... And are all accompanied by their wives or...
或者同等地位的女士 ladles of... equal distinction.
而且都长的异常类似 And all bear a remarkable similarly
贵公司理事 董事和经理 to governors, directors and executives
还有他们的朋友们 of the Corporation, and their friends.
看看 你这张照的不错 Oh, I say, you've come out very well.
当然 我们有可能容忍这些批评 It is possible we can contain all this criticism,
只要事态不进一步扩大 provided the files don't get any larger.
我劝我们大臣说 没有必要 I've urged my minister that there's no need
正式处理民防部门的事 to take up the civil defence issue formally.
可...可你要看到我的位置 But... But you must see my position.
BBC不会向政府压力低头 The BBC can't give in to government pressure.
当然 我们也不要他们低头 是吧大臣 We wouldn't want them to.
不要吗? 当然不要 Wouldn't we? No, of course not.
不过 大臣和路德维克肯尼迪的访谈 The minister's interview with Ludovic Kennedy
其中有些事实错误 did contain factual errors.
事实错误? 那就不一样了 Factual errors? That's different.
当然 BBC不会向政府压力低头 The BBC couldn't give in to government pressure.
当然不会 Absolutely not.
可报道准确性对我们至关重要 But we set great store by factual accuracy.
其中有些信息 播出时可能会过时 Some of the information might well be out of date by the time...
过时? 啊 这就严重了 Out of date? Ah, now, that's serious.
显然 BBC不会向政府压力低头 Obviously, the BBC couldn't give in to government pressure.
哦 确实不会 Oh, indeed not.
但我们绝不能播过时的东西 But we can't transmit out-of-date material.
录影之后 我还意识到我泄漏了一两处 And since the recording, I realised that I made one or two slips
可能算机密的信息 that might have security implications.
比如? 他不能告诉你 Such as? He can't tell you what they are.
为什么? 机密 Why not? Security.
对机密 怎么小心都不为过 Can't be too careful about security.
涉及国家安全问题 我们得负起责任来 If the defence of the realm is at stake, we must be responsible.
显然 BBC不会向政府压力低头 Obviously, the BBC couldn't give in to government pressure,
可机密 怎么小心都不为过 but security, you can't be too careful.
不为过 不为过 Can't be too careful. Can't be too careful.
如果有准确性和机密问题 If there are inaccuracies and security worries,
BBC就不会播放它了 the BBC wouldn't want to put the interview out.
正是 情况就完全改观了 Precisely. That puts a different complexion on it.
播出节目有悖公众利益 Transmission would not be in the public's interest,
但有件事我得说清楚 but I must make one thing absolutely clear.
这个问题丝毫没有疑问 There can be absolutely no question
BBC不会向政府压力低头 of the BBC ever giving in to government pressure.
好消息 大臣 Oh, good news, Minister.
BBC决定不播出 The BBC have decided not to send out
您和路德维克肯尼迪的访谈 真的? your interview with Ludovic Kennedy.
他们决定这才是明智之举 They felt that was the responsible course.
干的漂亮 这没什么 大臣 Well done. Oh, it was nothing.
不过 我还是有种感觉 Yet, you know, I can't help feeling
有人在陷害我 诱我说出 that I was trapped into saying those things
对首相不利的言论 that might've embarrassed the PM.
不会吧? 真的 Surely not? Yes.
我觉得我上了大当了 I think I was dropped right in it.
您怎么能这样胡思乱想? How could you think such a ridiculous thought?
胡思乱想 汉弗莱? 他不会陷害我吗? Why is it ridiculous to imagine that he would've tried to trap me?
谁? Who?
路德维克肯尼迪 Ludovic Kennedy.
哦 路德维克肯尼迪陷害您 那当然 Oh, Ludovic Kennedy tried to trap you. Yes, well, I'm sure he did.
骗子手 一等一级阴险小人 绝对信不过 Deceitful crowd, the medal. Underhand.
对 完全是小人 No, thoroughly deceitful.
对了 我想地方政务委员会的事还是算了 By the way, I think it might be wise to lay off the local councils.
哦 是吗? Oh, yes?
反正 委员们大体上还是 After all, councillors are responsible,
讲道理又负责的 sensible people on the whole.
而且是民主选举出的 民主选举 And they are democratically elected. Democratically elected.
说真的 中央政府必须万分小心 Central government must be frightfully careful
不能越权给他们乱下指示 before it tells them how to do their jobs.
万分小心 衡量指标的事呢? Frightfully careful. And the failure standards?
我看也是一个道理 你说呢? Well, I think the same applies... don't you?
是 大臣 Yes, Minister.