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Rober Lachenay, The 400 Blows begins here
with a shot of the Eiffel Tower. Could you tell us why?
I think it's because Francois lived near the Eiffel Tower.
But, really, in my opinion we should've shown the Sacre-Coeur.
Which was the symbol of your neighborhood.
Yes, we often played hooky at the Butte Montmartre.
Truffaut had a passion for the Eiffel Tower. He collected them.
Yes, he had a collection.
When did you meet Truffaut?
How old were you?
When I met him, I was 13 1/2, and he was 12 years old.
He was born in 1932, me in 1930.
Where did you meet?
At school, at 5 Rue Milton.
I had just come from a religious school and was placed in a public school.
I was held back a grade.
And that's how we ended up seated on the same bench
at the same desk, all the way in the back of the room.
It was because he was among the last in the class,
and apparently the teacher thought I would be in that position as well.
What does "The 400 Blows" conjure up for you?
Well, I was the assistant director on this movie.
And it seemed odd to me -
Back then, that is, because I've grown used to it by now.
But during the shoot it felt odd to me
to see our friendship
exposed to the public.
It was a little bit like -
how should I say?
As if we had been canonized before our death.
It gave me a strange feeling. But anyway -
Did you feel right away that the story of your life was being told?
Both Truffaut's and yours too, to some degree?
Yes, mine to a lesser degree.
you're in the movie in the character of Rene,
the childhood friend.
This film is dedicated to the memory of Andre Bazin
because on the first day of the shoot -
He died on the first day of the shoot.
How should I say this?
For a while,
I couldn't - I didn't like Bazin.
I was jealous of him. - You were jealous?
Actually, I even sent him a letter of reproach one day.
We made up afterwards. I went to Bry-sur-Marne.
But for a while -
I wasn't Truffaut's only friend anymore.
I couldn't compete with Bazin,
who was the incarnation par excellence of cinema.
He was the critic at Cahiers du Cinema
who helped Truffaut get into Cahiers in '53.
Think of all the doors he opened for him.
So, here we are in the classroom.
Do you know which school this was filmed in?
A school in the 19th arrondissement,
near Rue Belleville or Menilmontant.
This is you here. This is Rene, and you're Rene.
you're supposed to be Rene Bigey .
Rene Bigey was the name of my grandfather and grandmother.
Rene Bigey is the name of your character, and it's also the name of-
My grandmother and grandfather.
At some point - I don't know how we came to that -
my grandmother had even loaned him some money.
Young Doinel is already on the fringe of the class.
Does that correspond to something you experienced?
Was Francois really a bad pupil?
Yes. Well,
he was a bad pupil with regard to the standard curriculum,
but in reality he was ahead of everybody else.
But he was out of synch with the curriculum:
history, geography, etc.
In practical terms we weren’t part of the class.
We used to do crossword puzzles. We didn’t pay attention.
But the film was a little distorted,
because Jean-Pierre Leaud's role -
Jean-Pierre Leaud's personality was such that,
when compared with reality, the film shifted over to Jean-Pierre Leaud
more than Francois had planned at the beginning.
Do you mean that
the young Leaud brought a certain charm, a banter?
Yes, because Francois was rather shy
and would never have walked around the classroom
in such a casual manner.
He was more likely to hug the walls.
I would have done that, not him, you see.
you were more rash .
Yes. First o because I was older,
but also because I had a certain ease, I should say,
that was due to my family's situation.
My father was the general secretary of the Jockey Club.
I lived in a large nine-room apartment.
And I was freer. I could do as I wanted.
In his family, he wasn't really loved by his mother,
for reasons now known to everyone,
nor was he loved by his stepfather
because he was just a stepfather.
Therefore, he felt somewhat emotionally isolated.
For me it was the opposite.
Well, actually, it's not that I was loved.
Rather, I was neglected.
So I also had an emotional problem to transfer onto someone else,
like any human being.
So we complemented each other.
He had me and I had him,
and we stuck together.
This character is very -
We'll see this little boy later in Shoot the Piano Player.
He plays one of the little brothers
of Charles Aznavour.
Kanayan, I think.
Does this teacher, played by Guy Decomble,
resemble your teacher?
Oh, yes. Even physically, almost.
His name was Ducornet.
He used to beat us. He slapped us left and right.
I remember one day, I don't know why,
I think I hadn't done my homework once again.
I don't know what got into him.
But he started beating me
by banging my head against the blackboard.
It got to the point that the pupils got up and shouted, "Stop, sir!"
Those were not the classrooms of today.
But at the same time, he was a good teacher,
who took his pupils' future to hear.
He wanted them all to obtain their junior high school diploma.
I think we received that diploma.
- Did you receive yours? - I'd have to make sure on that point.
- You're not sure you got yours? - No, I don't remember.
I think I did, but I'm not sure. - Did Truffaut get his?
I don't remember that either. I'd have to check on that.
What was your friendship with Truffaut based upon?
What was the essential point? What brought you together?
Well, how should I say it?
For me, it was a kind of love at first sight.
Because when I found myself in this final year of junior high with him,
I don't know,
I felt that I had an exceptional individual next to me.
Obviously, at that time I was the only one, who thought so,
but later on it was clearly confirmed.
Within a few days, I told him, "You're the smartest pupil here, "
when in fact he was last in the class, and I was second to last.
So it was rather funny, if you think about it.
But it wasn't only his intelligence.
you could sense in him human qualities:
a hear, sensitivity, emotion.
And when we became better acquainted, all of this was confirmed.
That scene there wasn't much like Francois,
because he was just the opposite.
He was the kind of pupil who, in a classroom like that, always attracts -
you know children are very cruel ,.
The moment someone shows weakness, everybody picks on him.
I had more authority.
And in order not to be bothered, I had one friend -
He became a boxer afterwards, as a matter of fact.
He would act as my bodyguard.
During the occupation, I invited him to my place on Thursdays for crepes.
Eating crepes was no small matter. He acted as my bodyguard.
I told him, "Francois and I are the same you protect us both» ..
So we were blissfully left in peace, because if anyone pushed us around,
this guy would come running and -
That's not exactly what's in the film,
due to Jean-Pierre Leaud's influence.
And also the screenplay.
I imagine Truffaut wrote a screenplay to try and find
a more universal form with regards to childhood,
a childhood
that was somewhat rebellious and marginal.
Here we have young Doinel at home
in his rather cramped apartment.
It was a cramped apartment. There were three rooms.
- At Truffaut's? - Yes, at Francois',
on Rue de Navarin, on the second floor.
There was an entrance hall, where he slept on a folding bed
that used to go in front of the door.
Then there was a dining room and his parents' bedroom.
Those three rooms were in a row.
They must have measured 375 square feet at most,
with a kitchenette on the left.
Obviously, next to this, my place seemed fit for royalty.
It was Versailles, right? You had space.
- For Francois, it was Versailles. - Did he come to your place often?
Yes. Whenever his parents would leave.
They used to go mountain climbing.
On weekends?
I don't know where. Fontainebleau. They used to climb rocks, I guess.
On Friday or Saturday nights,
he'd come and sleep at my place.
you'll see that later on .
- Evening, Mother. - Evening.
- Where's the flour? - What flour?
Didn’t you buy what I told you to?
Where's the list I left you? - I lost it.
No wonder you get such bad grades.
Go get my slippers.
His mother was a very beautiful woman.
I'm certain he was a little bit in love with his mother.
- You think so? - Yes.
He was in love with his mother, but it was a rejected love.
This multiplied his psychological problems
by a factor of ten.
It wasn't simply the normal feelings between a son and his mother.
It was more.
Truffaut always said and wrote that his mother didn't love him,
that he wasn't loved or wanted by his mother.
- No. - He lived through that.
He was a child who arrived by accident
at a time when you couldn't have an abortion like nowadays.
Today, you're entitled to twelve weeks of medical leave.
Especially in a Catholic family.
They came from a Catholic family, the Montferrand,
small provincial nobility.
So he was always a hindrance.
It's terrible for a child like him.
Another would have shrugged it off, but for someone as sensitive as he was -
I realize this now, but we didn't talk about our families back then.
Now I realize that he had an appalling childhood.
Just appalling.
For him, at least.
Alber Remy plays Truffaut's father.
What did his father do?
I think he worked for an architectural firm.
And his mother worked as -
- His mother worked at L'lllustration. - Yes, a secretary at L'lllustration.
That's where we went to steal a typewriter.
Where are the scissors?
Where are the scissors
Stop playing the clown. And what are you laughing about?
This is no time for homework. We're about to eat.
She’s right. There’s a time and a place for everything.
Where'd you get this pen?
I traded for it.
You've been doing a lot of trading lately.
Did you used to do a little trading in class? Was that common?
- Well, yes. - Like all children, I imagine.
Yes, it's common practice.
Ask your mother if the dishtowel's on fire.
Why?
For a laugh.
You can clear the table, son.
Your cousin called.
- His wife’s expecting again. - Four kids in three years?
Like rabbits. It's disgusting.
Speaking of kids, what'll we do with this one for the summer?
- Summer camp ain't for poodles. - And he'd be With others his age.
- We don't have to decide yet. - The sooner, the better.
Don't pull too hard.
The father's hobby was cars. Car racing.
In the film, it's cars. In real life, it was climbing.
So every weekend, Truffaut's parents liked to go away together,
leaving the child behind.
They barely left him enough to eat.
Of course, this was during the occupation.
But then again, he was abandoned by one as well as the other.
Antoine, time for bed now.
'Night, Dad. 'Night, Mother.
You're such an idiot sometimes.
you've got no sense of humor .
As you said before, it was very cramped, and the bed -
He sleeps in the entrance hall.
His bed was folded up in the morning and used as a bench seat.
you mentioned the occupation ,
but Truffaut chose to set this film
in the period when it was actually filmed: 1958, '59.
So he didn't adapt the film to the period in reference.
That might have posed too many problems.
It would have gone off in a different direction.
A period movie. Whereas in this film -
Why not show the bombings of La Chapelle?
The air-raid warnings.
It would have turned into another movie.
Although that could have been interesting as well.
But that wasn't the subject.
His mother, played by Claire Maurier, shows no signs of affection.
Everything is a bit brutal, a little -
The 9th arrondissement is very important in Truffaut's childhood.
The neighborhood is essential to the story, don’t you think?
Yes, it's a very interesting neighborhood.
It's working-class and at the same time disreputable, with Pigalle.
It was the time of gangs: the Corsicans,
the prostitutes, in the small streets around Pigalle.
It was a very complex neighborhood on the human level,
and a rich ground of discovery for teenagers.
Next to the Place Pigalle -
Place Clichy, Place Pigalle, Anvers, Barbes, Notre-Dame de Lorette.
It was the triangle -
well, not the infernal triangle -
but the triangle of our neighborhood.
Our little Rene Bigey is wearing a tie
and a smart coat.
Already there's a small social difference between you two.
Was there really this kind of difference between you and Francois?
I was more authoritarian. I took the lead.
I organized playing hooky. I wrote absence notes for him.
Did you forge your parents' handwriting?
Their handwriting and their signatures.
I supplied him with his notes.
I'm the one, who dragged him along,
because he never would have dared to play hooky on his own.
I was an expert, since I had even played hooky for six months in a row once.
I took myself out of school altogether.
At the time, we were attending school at 35 Rue Milton.
In December '46, I wrote a letter to the principal pretending to be my father.
It stated that since I was dissatisfied with my son's academic progress,
I was placing him in an institution
with the Jesuits or something.
I played hooky from January to the 14th of July.
So I had already mastered that.
- What is this? It's called a Rotor? - Yes.
- Does it still exist? - This is the carnival that took place
between Clichy and Barbes
from December to January every year.
- Here we have Truffaut. - We have Francois, de Broca.
Philippe de Broca, who's the assistant -
Not the assistant, but a production advisor, rather.
- You're pinned to the wall - - By the force -
- By the speed. - The centrifugal force.
When Truffaut made his film, you were his assistant director?
Yes, after Les Mistons, where I did a little bit of everything,
he told me, "I'm going to try to do a full-length feature."
It was supposed to be called Antoine Runs Away.
He gave me two typewritten pages,
and he told me,
"You have to search your memory
and give me as much information as possible on that period."
So, we saw each other -
Here's Truffaut with de Broca.
Truffaut just passed in front of us.
A discreet cameo a la Hitchcock.
So, he asked you to collect your memories?
yes .
When we'd meet, I'd tell him, "Remember this? Do you remember that?"
This is from one day when we were playing hooky.
We were coming down from Montmartre.
We arrived at Place Clichy and he said, "Shit! My mother."
She was with a man?
Yes, she was kissing a stranger.
A stranger played here by Jean Douchet, a critic
from Cahiers du Cinema.
This scene is absolutely -
Oh, yes. I remember it very well.
We used to hide our book bags in a carriage entrance in the mornings,
and we would pick them up at the end of the day.
I'm going back to School tomorrow, but I'll need a note.
What are you gonna do? - I have an old one I never used.
I'll cut off the date. Here, you can copy it tonight.
- What about the handwriting? - Copy your mother's.
That'll be hard. She writes really funny.
Don't worry. It'll be all right.
I hope so. See you.
"Dear Sir,
Please excuse
I must say that for Francois to make a film with a continuous story,
he had to compress situations
that in reality took place over three or four years.
This all happened between 1944 and 1947,
since it ends in Villejuif, and that was in '47, '48.
The juvenile delinquent center, right?
But you have to create a cohesive story.
Did Francois get along with his stepfather?
Yes, because he didn't have the same problems as he did with his mother.
This was his stepfather, a gentleman who wasn't hostile to him.
He had legally recognized Francois.
Did you know all of this?
Yes, because once when he was alone for the weekend,
he came to my place on Saturday and told me,
"I just found out that my father isn't my father."
He had been rummaging through the papers in the house, as all kids do.
And of course he had seen -
But he wasn't quite sure, because he was born before their marriage.
He saw that when he was born,
his mother didn't know Mr. Truffaut.
So it became clear to him.
Did he confide in you right away? Did he tell you right away?
Yes. Who else could he have told about it?
Back then he only had me.
But it didn’t go any further. We never spoke about our families.
What's striking here as well is that the movie was filmed in CinemaScope
on a very small and narrow set.
you can imagine the constraints ,
the crew all piled up in corners to take shots like this
in this rather cramped apartment.
yes .
Half of the crew was out on the stairs.
It reminded me of making Rivette's film.
We spent most of our time on the stairs.
- Which film by Rivette? - Paris Belongs to Us.
We also filmed in hotel rooms.
Were you on that shoot? Were you the assistant?
- Yes, it lasted a year. - It went on for a long time.
It stopped and stared again. - We stopped for a month.
It enabled me to work to -
- To earn some money? - Nobody was paid on Rivette's film.
- Truffaut coproduced that film, right? - In the end.
In the end
he completed the film,
maybe with Chabrol.
But during the shoot, nobody was paid. Everyone lived by his own means.
- My boss drove me home. - Your boss!
- I couldn't very well refuse, could I? - I hope you get overtime for that!
I will, at the end of the month.
Those services are usually paid in cash!
Oh, knock it off!
No wonder madame needs to rest on Sunday.
By the way, where's my Michelin guide? - How should I know? Ask the boy.
- He said he didn't touch it. - He lies through his teeth.
- Like someone else I know. - If you raised him better -
I gave him my name, damn it! I put food on the table!
"I gave him my name, damn it! I put food on the table!"
It's very -
His stepfather might have said that.
Which confirms what he discovered in the documents.
You two better eat out till the end of the month.
For that I need a clean shirt!
If you can't wash the Shirt, at least wash the collar!
You shouldn't have bought that fog light.
I bought it second-hand.
Go ahead. Open it.
What if it's the gas man?
They give you advance notice.
Morning, sir. I came to see if Antoine's better today.
- Better? Why? - He missed school yesterday.
You hear that?
- A little snitch? - Yes.
- Were there little snitches like that? - Yes.
The head-of-the-class type.
You don't seem surprised.
Should I be?
Nothing that boy does surprises me.
- I've gotta come up with an excuse. - The bigger, the better.
Yes, I was the one who told him that. That was one of my arguments.
I had taken it from Dr. Goebbels.
"The more you lie, and the bigger it is, the more it's accepted."
Goebbels used to say that. - Really?
The minister of Nazi propaganda.
I had read that somewhere, and I repeated it to him.
I told him he had to include it. - Without telling him it was from Goebbels.
This is our street, Notre-Dame de Lorette, and the Rue Fontaine.
This scene -
There you are.
A little extra homework and you get sick, eh?
And your parents fall for it.
Can't wait to see what excuse you wrangled out of them this time.
Let me see your note.
- I don't have one. - Don't have one?
You think that’s how it works? It's not that easy, my friend!
- It was... my mother... - What about her?
She's dead!
Oh, my gosh.
Sorry, son. I didn't know.
Was She ill? - Yes, sir.
You should've told me. You should always confide in your teachers.
Go on now. Get in line.
Except that here, the bigger the lie, the less it's accepted.
It's not even going to be accepted at all.
He went a little too far there.
At the same time, it's very moving,
because it proves that a child doesn't know how to lie.
He lies so much that he doesn't know how to lie, right?
yes .
- "Better thorns in the woods than..." - Than up your -
If you'd wash your ears out, you'd hear what your classmate is whispering.
Than up your ass.
- He's just trying to confuse me. - All right, go on.
Now I've lost my place.
"Than flowers in the manger."
"Than flowers in the manger. Better to have freedom..."
"And constant threat..."
"Than slavery..."
"In eternal April." And you're an eternal loafer! You get an F.
I knew it at home.
Doinel?
Never mind, son.
Simonot.
Serge Moati, who plays Simonot,
later became a filmmaker and TV director.
He plays young Simonot.
...by Jean Richepin.
Sit down, boys.
I suggest the punishment should be in proportion -
He's exceeded all proportion this time.
Only his parents can be severe enough now.
We'll discuss this tonight!
What are you gonna do?
I can't live with my parents now after what's happened.
I have to disappear.
Oh, I've done worse than this.
But I'm fed up. I have to get out on my own.
I'll write them a letter.
- Just like that? - Yes, it's for the best.
- Where will you Sleep tonight? - I don't know. I don't really care.
Outside the film, in your childhood,
what was it
that led Truffaut to do things,
not stupid things, but little things
that ended up bringing him to the juvenile delinquent center?
- "Delinquent" is a big word. - I know, but that's the term used.
It's true that he ran away.
It wasn't much, but -
One time, since this was during the war, he slept in the metro.
The metro stayed open all night back then in case of bombings.
Other times, he came to my place.
So after a while,
his parents may have thought about getting rid of him.
Here’s your mattress, and this'll be your pillow.
Damn, it's heavy!
You can just walk around until midnight.
Keep my briefcase for me. Give it back to me tomorrow.
Sure.
"Dear Mother and Dad, I understand -" Misspelled, of course.
"how wrong it was to lie - "
I'll bet he does. And why kill me off instead of you?
Personal preference, obviously.
"We can't go on living together.
Therefore I'll try my luck alone in Paris or elsewhere.
I'll prove I can become a man.
One day I'll come back and We'll discuss all that's happened.
Love, Antoine."
So you think it's normal for him to hate me?
- You've been So hard on him. - He gets on my nerves.
Can you help me catch him?
Here, we have a cameo.
Jeanne Moreau and Jean-Claude Brialy in a cameo.
What we call a courtesy cameo.
But it was also
the first meeting between Brialy and Jeanne Moreau.
Because Jeanne Moreau later appeared in Jules and Jim.
Brialy also worked a lot with people we knew.
He was in Paris Belongs to Us.
He was trying to get established.
He was a young actor.
He liked the New Wave.
Obviously Chabrol, with whom he made his first films.
Whenever we walked around at night,
we used to steal milk bottles.
They always used to be in front of the dairy shops in the old days.
Around '46, '47, we stared keeping files on film directors.
Francois started it, and I imitated him.
We'd cut articles out of newspapers we found in the trash everywhere.
Articles on Hathaway, William Wellman, etc.
To fill out the files, we used to steal huge quantities of movie stills.
On Wednesday we'd locate the theaters
where films that interested us were playing.
Then, Saturday night,
when his parents were gone and he was staying with me,
we’d go out at 1:00 a.m., after the theaters had closed,
all around Paris,
opening the display windows with a screwdriver.
We'd come back with a stack of movie stills.
Then, on Sunday, we'd organize them in our files.
It was a secret pleasure.
This is how we came to steal milk bottles at 5:00 a.m.
After having walked 10 miles around Paris,
we were always a little thirsty and hungry, so -
The scene you're talking about is in a flashback in The Man Who Loved Women.
you can see the child
stealing the stills of Citizen Kane from the theater window.
But we did it on a large scale.
This was after the war, not during.
- During the war, there was a curfew. - This was between '45 and '47.
Of course, the files were at my place, not his.
Later, they were in the maid's room that I lived in.
I had lost my apartment.
Doinel, I bet you got it last night.
Not at all. Everything was fine.
Go on now.
Parents spoil these kids rotten.
Need some help over there?
The last question,
even easier this time.
"Where is the father?"
That's a very important question for Truffaut.
"Where is the father?"
Because we know his father wasn't his father.
- He did find him later on. - Yes.
He found him and he didn't. He learned who -
Yes, he found him without finding him.
He learned who his father was.
He went to see him but let him pass by in the street.
After having an investigation conducted -
By a private detective.
The story of the private detective, I recall now, is in one of his films.
- Stolen Kisses? - Yes, Stolen Kisses.
Around '47, '48, I was doing a lot of odd jobs.
One day I read an ad for a private detective.
It made him laugh, and he absolutely wanted me to be a private detective.
It was near the Gare St. Lazare.
I know we circled the area for a couple of hours.
And I finally told him,
"Listen, I just don't have any interest in being a private detective.
I'd rather do some other job."
But later he put that in his films.
Anyway, you can find everything in his films.
He had a colossal memory.
His movies always have an autobiographical dimension.
I recognize dialogue sometimes.
Then we're agreed.
Maybe it's something in his glands.
What you notice, too,
if you pay attention,
is that the film is entirely dubbed.
- The film doesn't use location sound. - No, of course not.
That wasn't being done yet at the beginning of the New Wave.
It took a few years.
When you don't record the sound, it enables you to shoot faster.
So all the films of the New Wave -
although we did have a budget here -
for the others, the sound was added afterwards.
Recording equipment was very heavy. You needed a truck, you needed -
A sound engineer.
We had a very scaled-down crew.
Mother made me promise never to see him again.
She never told my father.
I cried and cried, but I obeyed her,
because you Should always obey your mother.
You and I can share some little secrets.
Tell me, what did you mean in your letter when you said:
"We'll discuss all that's happened"?
My misbehaving, and my bad grades.
So talk to me now.
I just can't concentrate.
Do you remember Jean-Pierre Leaud and the way he was during the shoot?
He was just like in the film,
something like Gavroche, your street urchin.
- At ease? - Very much at ease.
He had no hang-ups in front of the adults.
That's what had won Truffaut over in the screen tests he did.
He did numerous tests with many children,
and Jean-Pierre Leaud stood out from the rest.
I saw them, too.
He had a personality that stood out right away.
Without a doubt.
This is true. For physical education,
we used to go to Rue de Rochechouar.
And you'd slip away en route?
- I did the same later on in the service. - Really?
"The dying man pulled himself up
and gave his children a piercing look.
The hair bristled on the nape of his neck.
For him, Balzac was the discovery
of passionate feelings between men and women.
He's the one who introduced me to Balzac.
He talked so much about him that I thought to myself,
"I'd better star reading his works, too."
Did you identify with one of the characters?
I remember that one day, on Place Breda,
where we'd meet before going to school,
he had read The Lily of the Valley,
and he was talking about the kiss.
At a certain moment, the character kisses the woman's shoulder.
He was delirious with that all the way to Rue Milton.
It was the amorous feelings between men and women.
I remember that from very early on
he was really drawn to women.
I remember when we played hooky -
At that time, women wore stockings with seams.
When he saw a pretty pair of legs, we had to follow them.
We had to change our route
in order to follow this or that young woman
until she got home.
He was reading all of this at a very young age.
you're talking about 13 or 14 years old.
Yes, it was in '43, '44, '45.
I was 15, and he was 13 1/2,
and we used to read -
Since we didn't have much money to invest in books,
we used to buy the small "Classics by Fayard."
I found one of Francois' books at home recently
in which he had inserted a note
about The Lily of the Valley.
"It's the most beautiful porrayal of love that I ever read."
And he was 13 1/2.
This already indicated a certain level of culture
to have discovered in Balzac's book
this declaration which had overwhelmed him.
So our conversations gravitated towards -
I didn't talk too much to him about my history books,
because they didn't interest him.
But little by little, I also started reading Balzac
to be able to talk with him.
We were reading Maupassant.
We were reading like mad.
Paris Belongs to Us.
This is an inside reference because the film hadn't been finished yet.
No, it was still being filmed. It came out later.
Here young Doinel goes to the movies with his parents.
In fact, he usually went to the movies with you, didn't he?
Generally, we played hooky to go to the movies.
It wasn't to have fun.
I counted them one time, and between Clichy and Barbes,
or in about one mile,
there were 22 or 24 movie theaters.
Rober, among the numerous letters
that you and Francois wrote to each other,
there's one from Francois where he asks you to meet him at the Champollion.
Oh, yes.
He says that he'll be watching Le Roman d'un Tricheur all day long.
We must have watched it 15 times.
We met at the Champollion. It was an inexpensive theater.
As a matter of fact, we chose to have our film club right next to it
on the Rue des Ecoles.
On Boulevard St. Germain?
The Latin Quarter Cinema, wasn't it?
It doesn't exist anymore. Now it's the FNA C.
Yes, it's the FNAC now.
The computerized FNAC center.
We'd meet at the Champollion.
We knew we could find each other there during the day.
We used to go in at2:00 p.m.
It may even have started at 10:00 a.m.
We would see Le Roman d'un Tricheur five or six times.
We liked it because it was Sacha Guitry, of course,
but also because it's about an abandoned child
whose parents die poisoned by mushrooms.
He later takes odd jobs
like bellhop in a hotel -
I was also a bellhop in a hotel on A venue de l'Opera.
We'd always copy a bit what we saw in films.
I didn't become a private detective, but I was a bellhop in a hotel.
you also worked in a factory in the suburbs.
Yes, because we had to -
When was that?
In '48, '49, '50. Up until my military service.
I worked in a factory sporadically
because I was also working on Paris Belongs to Us.
I'd stop whenever Rivette called me.
I'd sign up for unemployment and -
But Truffaut also went to work in that factory.
Yes, but he didn't work there for very long,
because he had better things to do than welding.
For him it was a waste of time.
But I got him into a factory, where he must have worked for a month.
Where was this factory, the acetylene factory?
- It was - - In the suburbs?
Yes, it was in the suburbs.
- Wasn't it in Pontault-Combault? - That's it. It was in Pontault-Combault.
He stayed with my mother, who was living there then.
He raised his hand in anger and shouted Archimedes' famous last words:
Eureka! I have found it!"
Well, I've found it, too, Doinel.
You're a miserable plagiarist! - It's not true, sir.
Go to the principal's office this instant.
Take this and go with him.
I don't want to See you back here this term!
What are you doing?
I sit next to him. I would have seen it if he had copied.
- You want to be suspended as well? - I Wouldn't mind.
More insolence!
Get out! - I don't want to. It's cold outside.
- Get out of here! - This is illegal.
So, here -
Were you sent home from school often?
Expelled or kicked out. We say kicked out.
When you said earlier that you went to several schools on Rue Milton,
that's because you were often kicked out.
This is the A venue Frochot.
Yes, wait -
Francois had been kicked out and stared going to school at 35 Rue Milton.
- So I got myself kicked out to go to 35. - To be with him.
I told my father I absolutely had to change schools because -
So I ended up at 35.
There was no way we would not be in the same school.
Maybe, but not for me. If only it were the navy!
I've never seen the ocean.
I've seen the English Channel, the Atlantic,
and the Mediterranean, but not the North Sea.
Come on, stay at my place. We'll manage.
- Does this recall anything? - In reality, it didn't happen this way.
He had been coming over to my place for a long time.
Is this the A venue Frochot?
A discreet homage to Renoir, who used to live there?
Yes, of course.
We'd hang out in front of his gate.
you know there's a gate there . So Renoir -
- Were you hoping to see Renoir? - Yes.
Tell me about this horse.
you know that my father was general secretary of the Jockey Club.
So, to symbolize this, we had rented a horse
in some warehouse, I don't remember which one.
And this is supposed to be my bedroom.
That's much more than a bedroom. It's an artist’s studio. It's enormous.
My bedroom wasn't that big.
- But you did have a large apartment. - Yes, I had my own private bedroom.
It was easy, because there were two stairways:
a service stairway and the main stairway.
So at 10:00 p.m.,
when my father was in his room and my mother in hers,
I'd let him in via the service stairway.
My bedroom was near the service stairway.
There was the bathroom, the kitchen, then the service stairway.
- Did you ever take money? - Very often.
Since my mother was - how should I say?
She was an alcoholic. Let's say the word.
When she'd come home,
she’d put her purse just about anywhere.
The next day, she wouldn't be able to remember how much she had spent.
That allowed me to pay for movies and little extras like pastries.
- It was for a good cause. - Yes.
We weren't delinquents.
It stayed in the family.
It seems like you lived in a parallel world, another world.
The world of Balzac, movies,
playing hooky, being friends,
and the street, of course.
At the same time,
this adult world seemed foreign to us.
And the more foreign it seemed, the more we shared with each other,
the more we had in common.
It enabled us to hold on.
We must remember that all this took place during the German occupation.
So it was a very strange period.
Things weren't altogether normal.
That also contributed to our solidarity.
It's true that we weren't having fun,
because we were preoccupied
with issues of cinema, literature,
and psychological problems, etc.
But on one occasion I saw Francois really has a ball.
At my place, there was a large courtyard
paved in the old-fashioned way, with a fountain.
Across from us there was a carpet seller.
A guy used to wash the carpets in the courtyard,
and there was a storeroom as well,
where some carpets were rolled up and others were laid out flat.
There was a mountain of carpets.
One day it was open.
We went in, and I never saw Francois has so much fun.
Me, too, by the way.
We'd climb to the top and throw ourselves down onto the carpets.
It was a sort of early form of trampoline.
We'd climb back up laughing and throw ourselves back down,
until the caretaker threw us out.
And I don't know how it happened, but the next day, my mother -
It must have been the caretaker.
She says, "I hear that you and your buddy -
That must be Truffaut.
you were up to nasty pranks in the carpet storeroom downstairs."
That made me absolutely furious
because morally we were so innocent.
We would have never -
We were extremely modest.
And to be accused of things like that
made me absolutely furious
and suddenly suspicious of adults.
Really, it became -
That always stayed with me.
So here, this is your - The club.
This is supposed to be your father here.
Obviously, this is very different from Francois' place.
Movies on the sly.
You always went to the movies in a clandestine manner, in secret.
Well, yes. Nobody would have understood.
Back then, the cinema wasn't -
Here it is.
- Here it's only one picture. - That's a very famous picture.
It was from Bergman's Monika.
Going to the movies was a job. We used to count the shots.
I was under Francois' influence, so we were counting the shots.
We even talked in film dialogue.
We were quoting from films continuously. "What was that?"
We'd answer that it was Sacha Guitry or La Bandera.
One day I was at the movies,
and there was a couple behind me talking.
It made me furious, because I was hot-tempered.
I turned around and slapped the man with my newspaper and told him,
"Sir, the movie theater is a place of silence and work."
The people behind me were so startled
that they didn't make another sound.
your father was rather lenient . Well, Bigey's father.
Yes, that's right.
He knew very well that -
He didn't try to find out. He let it go.
Did you have the feeling your family didn't raise you?
No, because -
We were - I mean, I was good with a peashooter.
We used tiny arrows,
and I was able to lodge them in the hair of ladies passing by,
three or four each, without them feeling a thing.
They went on walking, just like that, and we thought that was funny.
Do you remember how this scene was filmed?
You get the impression it was shot without the kids -
- Obviously, the camera is hidden. - Well, yes.
This is the puppet show at the Luxembourg Gardens.
Luxembourg?
I believe Doniol-Valcroze's daughter is there.
Florence, isn't it?
Little Florence Doniol-Valcroze who played in Une Visite,
Truffaut's first short film, right?
Which I produced.
Jacques Doniol-Valcroze was the editor in chief of Cahiers du Cinema.
I financed it with my paid holidays from the factory.
you financed it with the money you made at the factory?
Well, I just paid for the film stock.
There was Rivette at the camera,
and myself doing everything else.
This moment is very strange because it seems inserted into the film.
It's almost like
something that doesn't quite belong to the film,
but rather is a sort of moment of pure poetry
about children's laughter and childhood itself.
You have to admit these children are beautiful.
Look at this one leaning - - Yes. There's a sort of fascination.
Here we are on the Champs-Elysees.
This wasn't our neighborhood.
We can sense you're not from this neighborhood.
The "grand boulevards."
So, here's the story of the typewriter.
This is the typewriter you spoke about.
Truffaut stole it from the office of L'lllustration, right?
I don't remember if it was his mother's or father's office.
Why did he need a typewriter?
It was at La Place des Victoires.
We were there at noontime.
But why did he need the typewriter?
To sell it for pocket money.
I knew a friend of my mother's near Rue Lepic
who sold everything.
I told Francois, "We'll have him take it to a pawn shop."
Was this when you stared a film club with him?
No, it was much later.
Later.
Not much, much later.
- He was about 16 then, right? - I was about 17or 18.
It was in 1948, '49.
I'd have to check the dates.
The Gaumont Palace.
I think this is the Rue Forest,
where the pawn shop is.
I knew the pawn shop well because my mother, for drinking money,
in addition to the money my father gave her,
pawned the silver and sheets at the pawn shop.
- And it was on Rue Forest? - Yes.
That's where this man is heading?
- Yes. - The go-between.
Give us back our machine! Where do you think you're going?
- I thought you were down there. - Sure you did.
Anyway, it’s no go. They Want to see a receipt.
Then give it back.
- Fine, but I want 500 for my trouble. - We don't have it.
You must have Something. Three hundred and we're even.
- We're broke. - I don't work for nothing.
I'll keep it as a deposit. - The hell you will! It's ours!
- Give it back or I'll Slug you. - Hands off!
It's no more yours than mine.
There's a cop. Let's ask him.
Fine, keep the damned thing, you little shits.
The Caulaincourt bridge.
It's amazing how different the movie is when you watch a nice print.
It feels like the original print.
The blacks, the whites, the grays.
you often see The 400 Blows on rather poor video copies.
It changes everything, don’t you think?
It seems filmed -
There's a straightforward side to it, like a documentary about Paris.
About the streets.
Whereas usually the film looks a little grimy.
Yes, it's true.
The disguise was very successful.
Well, if it isn't Doinel's son. I must be seeing things!
Put that down. Boy, is your daddy gonna love this!
I'll show them I know my job.
I'm warning you, don't try anything.
I don't like little punks like you.
The adults aren't -
The film is really against adults
because the child is bringing something back.
It wasn't a serious offense.
And not only that, it was being set right.
We had very bad memories of adults.
They were the enemy. They meant danger.
Distrust, danger. Right.
I think that's important, because in all of Truffaut's films,
the men are never really adults in a certain way.
There's always a part of them,
something from innocence and childhood.
They never have adult jobs. They're never portrayed as -
Yes. I feel like I never reached adulthood.
To this day.
you've tried but - ,
There's always the distrust of adults and of others.
May we see the chief?
We've tried everything: kindness, persuasion, punishment.
But we never beat him, mind you.
- Sometimes the good old ways - - Of course.
But his mother and I aren't like that.
We gave him a lot of freedom. - Too much, perhaps.
And with both of us working - You know how it is.
Yes, I'm a father too.
I must admit it's not always easy.
If only he'd talk to us.
But when We talk to him, he's a thousand miles away.
You think he's listening now?
Here’s how I found him with the typewriter.
Who knows what goes on in that head of his!
Take this boy's statement.
Vagrancy and theft.
Those are terrible words: "Vagrancy and theft."
Especially in those days.
What have you decided?
We can't take him back home now. He'll just run away again.
Perhaps you could place him somewhere, like a camp in the country?
And put him to work, 'cause he won't study anymore.
We can try the Observation Center.
It's well organized, and he'll learn a skill.
This is the scene where the father sends his son to -
In reality, it was after what happened at the film club when you got into debt.
It was at the film club.
He came to get you one Sunday morning, grabbed Francois, and took him away -
I found myself all alone
with the film club.
To clarify, you had formed a film club:
"The Cercle Cinemane."
you used to show movies on Sunday mornings.
Everything was in my name because I was the only one with an address,
a rent receipt and a few paychecks.
you owed money to the companies that rented out movies.
We were never really able to obtain many movies
because we only had two screenings.
Once, Francois told some stories.
Cocteau was supposed to come - - The Blood of a Poet.
- Right. - He never came.
- As we didn't belong to the Federation - - Of film clubs.
we couldn't obtain the films.
We showed the film that was playing at the theater that week.
I don't remember what it was.
And at the second screening they came to arrest him.
To pay back the money -
I had to pay for the rental of the theater -
And you also had club members who had already paid their subscription.
Yes, a few people had subscribed.
It was a nightmare for me.
And I was left all alone with all that.
So this is when Francois' father, Roland Truffaut, came.
He told me, "You won't be seeing your friend again anytime soon."
Francois was taken to a police station.
And here we come back to the film.
But it's not in the same -
It was later on in your life, in the life of Truffaut.
- Francois was already 16. - I was 16 1/2.
Here's Jacques Demy in this scene, with the cap.
I took a picture at this police station with five directors in it.
Jacques Demy.
We're about to see Philippe de Broca, I think.
Charles Bitsch.
Truffaut, of course.
- And Godard. - Really?
- In my picture. - You don't see him here.
No, you don't see him here, but he's in my picture.
And there's a fifth -
Well, de Broca.
Five directors.
This was in the storerooms
of Madeleine's father -
Morgenstern?
It was shot at his -
- Where he stored his movies. - I see.
It wasn't shot in a real police station?
What does one find in a police station? Prostitutes.
Did Francois talk to you about being arrested?
Was it traumatic for him?
Did it leave a mark on him?
yes .
"Le carrosse est avance."
A little nod to "Les Films du Carrosse."
? yes
What was I going to say?
I asked you if it had left a mark on him.
Yes, because he found himself among real delinquents.
He was an amateur.
But there were others in the bunch who were real tough guys.
It shocked him.
Especially since he didn't have Jean-Pierre Leaud's personality.
Francois was more -
More withdrawn, more shy?
More fragile.
His reaction had nothing in common with Jean-Pierre's.
Nevertheless, even with Jean-Pierre Leaud,
this is what you perceive in the movie -
The carnival. We had spent so much time walking around this carnival.
But you can sense the emotion.
It's very moving. Look at the tears.
- Being caged in like that. - Done very simply.
When Truffaut was taken to the juvenile delinquent center,
did he write to you all the time?
Since you couldn't see each other anymore, you used to write.
I went to take him a package.
I wasn't able to see him.
It must have been forbidden for me to see him.
I'm sure someone must have said, "If a certain Robert Lachenay comes here,
they must absolutely not be allowed to communicate."
I went to see him.
The same thing happened in the service.
I crossed all of Germany to bring him a package.
I was in southern Germany. He was in the north.
And it was the same. He was in jail again.
But that time I was able to leave my package.
When you couldn't see each other,
the first thing you did was star writing to one another.
- Long letters? - Yes.
"What's new with you? What are you doing?"
"What are you reading? What have you seen?"
"Do you still go to the movies?"
What made you keep all those letters from Truffaut?
That's always intrigued me, the fact you kept them.
From the star,
I kept them because I knew that he was exceptional,
and I thought he would become a great writer.
So I was careful to keep his letters
so I could give them back to him one day
when we were old.
I was hoping we'd both grow old.
For his 60th birthday,
I hoped to give these letters to him, which I'd never given him before.
Even when he asked me to bring all the documents I had,
while we were making The 400 Blows, to remind him of memories,
I never brought any of those letters.
I was keeping them for when we were old,
thinking it would remind him of his youth all at once.
But unfortunately, he was never able to grow old.
And so, one day I gave them to the "Carrosse."
The amount of correspondence Truffaut left behind is unbelievable.
He was a man of letters.
Right from his youth.
Mine are, well -
But if we could gather together all of his correspondence
with the people he came to know,
filmmakers, writers and so on,
I'm sure it would be quite an important work.
It's about cinema, and very human too.
It's partially published. but only in very small part.
We could try taking him back if we had to,
but he'd have to change his ways entirely.
If only you could scare Some sense into him, Your Honor.
- That's not my role. - We can't control him.
Perhaps you exercise control too inconsistently.
IS it true he was left home alone for an entire weekend?
My husband belongs to a racing club.
We might have left him home alone.
Besides, he hates sports.
He prefers to hole up in a theater for hours, ruining his eyes.
What does your husband think? It's his son, after all.
Well, no, he isn't.
He married me when the boy was small.
He deserves credit for that.
I shouldn't have told you that.
You know that Truffaut's parents took the film very badly,
along with everything that surrounded the film when it came out.
Yes, I must admit I understand their feelings.
In their circles, it must have been quite difficult for them.
Actually, Truffaut was very ill at ease in the end
when the film came out.
People said it was autobiographical, then they said it wasn't.
He stepped back a little so as not to hurt his parents too much.
But the harm had been done. The film says a lot,
including the dialogue we just heard,
that the father isn't the father.
you can see that the mother is very hypocritical, very -
Yes, but at the same time, it's also justice.
Everybody should pay for their mistakes.
It's as if he got scared. He backed away a little bit.
Yes, because -
I'm speaking as an outsider here,
but for him, as sensitive as he was,
even when it came to the people who had harmed him,
he couldn't do the same in return.
He never expected this film would be so successful.
It took on incredible dimensions.
- International. - National, international.
He was overwhelmed by its success.
It's really not sentimental.
It shows things as truthfully as possible.
It's seen from a child's point of view,
how little it takes to leave a mark on childhood.
- Look! - Who's that guy?
He escaped a week ago, but they got him.
Around here, to escape is bad enough, but to get caught is worse.
What are you doing there? Two lines, on the double!
What are you up to there? Now march!
This group monitor here was a prop man.
The one who slaps the boy.
It was the New Wave.
We used the people we had on hand.
you improvised a bit . And it was cheaper.
Yes, that too.
We didn't waste time searching for -
"Right hand or left?"
This may be a reference to scenes later on in Truffaut's life.
When he was in the service in Germany, he was thrown in jail?
Yes. His head was shaven, completely bald.
It was more serious.
Yes, but in the army he already knew Bazin and had more moral support.
He was hoping for Andre Bazin's help.
Whereas here at Villejuif, he was completely alone.
He didn't know Bazin yet.
It must have been very hard for him.
He must have struck bottom.
Why did you return the typewriter?
Well, Since I couldn't Sell it or anything, I got scared.
I don't know why I returned it. Just 'cause.
It seems you stole 10, 000 francs from your grandmother.
She had invited me for her birthday.
I thought since she's old and doesn’t eat much, she doesn't need the money.
She was going to die soon.
So, since I knew where she kept her dough, I swiped some.
I knew she wouldn't notice, and she didn't.
She gave me a nice book that day.
This is the interview with the psychologist.
I think this is the voice of Annette Wademant.
She was a scriptwriter for Becker, among others.
It's very visual. Just as we might do it today.
For a TV show.
At the same time, it's better than using shot-countershot,
which would have required cuts.
It's very effective.
It works well, because it shows young Leaud isn't cheating here.
Why don’t you like your mother?
Well, first She Sent me to live with a wet nurse.
Then, when they had no more money, they sent me to my grandmother.
But She got old and couldn't take care of me anymore...
- All this is true, right? - Yes.
- Francois was raised by his grandmother? - Yes.
He always kept within himself an emotional memory of his grandmother.
I never knew her,
but the only person he talked about was his grandmother.
She's the one who gave him his taste for reading, I think.
That's what he says.
Because I never saw many books at his parents’ place.
Come to think of it, I don't remember seeing a single book at his parents'.
The place might have been small,
but books don't take an enormous amount of space.
He either started reading on his own, or it was his grandmother.
I went back a couple times.
Once a man Saw me and asked me what I Was doing there.
He was North African. So I told him.
I guess he knew a lot of women, and he said he knew one
who liked guys my age.
So he took me to her hotel,
only she wasn't there that day.
We waited an hour or two, but she didn't show up, so I left.
- And here's young Rene - - And there's Madeleine.
- Madeleine, I wasn’t paying attention. - Next to Maurice Pons.
- Incredible. - She's pregnant.
Madeleine Morgenstern, Truffaut's wife,
and Maurice Pons, the writer of-
Les Mistons.
The novel that Truffaut adapted.
you can see he cares more for me than for his mother.
Yes, it's obvious.
That's what's so moving.
I found a letter from Villejuif
where they ask me for information about Francois.
Really?
I didn't reply, of course.
The film takes adults to task
for making children feel guilty, don’t you think?
For making children feel guilty, when, in essence, they're innocent.
yes .
Like the example I gave you of the day we were playing among the carpets.
We were pronounced guilty even though we were totally innocent.
The one time we were having fun, the adults made us feel guilty...
making up the worst filth.
Did you ever think -
I suspect you didn't -
When you made The 400 Blows, did you think
that there would be a sequel involving this character?
No.
Truffaut didn't think of it either?
He thought of it later with Antoine and Colette, but later.
It's like Balzac. In the beginning, he wasn't thinking of The Human Comedy.
It was 10 years later that he suddenly said to himself -
In retrospect, it's obvious to us
that a sequel was needed for this child, this adolescent.
It's really an exceptional thing in the world of cinema.
The sequel - the saga. Yes, absolutely.
It's unique.
- Except for the Little Tramp. - Yes.
Who else? There aren't too many.
Although with Chaplin, the story ends each time.
But here it's the same story that goes on.
With the same actor.
This tracking shot was filmed from a car window.
Henri Decae did the photography.
If not, we would have had to set up a mile-long tracking shot.
This is based on the idea that young Doinel had never seen the sea.
He comes upon it.
He's a real little Parisian, Doinel.
A little Parisian who comes upon the sea.
It was filmed in Normandy. Do you remember where?
Yes, near Honfleur.
Villers-sur-Mer, I think.
The whole crew stayed in Honfleur.
And oddly enough, this is where he suffered his stroke in '82 or '83.
That's where he was vacationing, in Honfleur.
No, I think he was writing a script -
In a rented house, for the holidays.
That's where he had his stroke.
It was in Honfleur, so it's very -
It's bizarre how things come back around.
yes .
you'd prefer that they didn't come back.
Jean Constantin's music fits well.
Very well.
It's sober.
Just enough
to softly underline
the emotion of the image.
What do you say in conclusion?
This isn't the conclusion. Only for the time being.
Well, I hadn't seen it in a long time.
I always feel the same emotion.
Thank you, Robert Lachenay.
It moves me to see it again.
INTERVIEWER: SERGE TOUBIANA