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{\an8}[Keith] In March of '97,
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{\an8}I'm sleeping on my bed
at seven o'clock with a pager,
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00:00:25,735 --> 00:00:27,903
{\an8}and that alerts
us to fires.
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00:00:27,945 --> 00:00:29,530
{\an8}And at seven o'clock,
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{\an8}I hear the dispatcher's voice
come over,
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{\an8}toning us out for a building
fire with people trapped.
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And I'm three months
into being 18
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and I'm still not sure
of myself as a firefighter.
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And I get that lump,
first time I get a lump, I go,
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"Oh, God, people trapped,
I'm gonna have to go in
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and pull someone
out of a building.
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I hope it's not a kid."
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{\an8}So, I-- I take off
out of my house,
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{\an8}I run across the common
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{\an8}and I get
to the firehouse
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{\an8}and-- and I'm shaking right now
because I-- I could feel it.
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So, we get there,
the house is fully involved.
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I can see it from the road,
it's a hundred-foot driveway,
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flames 50 feet
in the air.
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Uh, I get my--
I get my job, my task,
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getting off the truck,
I get to the back of the truck
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to pull the big hose line off.
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They pull up the driveway,
and then I follow behind them.
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As I get up to the-- even with
the house and the driveway,
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I see what appears
to be a lump of blankets
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being carried past me.
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It was not
a lump of blankets.
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It was a woman
who was in the building
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and as they get to my shoulder,
I-- I smell it.
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And it's a smell
I cannot get rid of.
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And as that goes by me
and I realize what it is,
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it is a body,
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I look,
and there's an older gentleman,
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{\an8}the co-- one of the cops
is with him by the garage
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{\an8}and he's bleeding
from his wrists,
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{\an8}and he's,
like, 82 years old.
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And I'm like,
"What the fuck is going on?
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What did I
just walk into?"
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{\an8}And then we still
don't know where the chief is,
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{\an8}or at least I don't,
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{\an8}and I look and the chief
comes diving out of the window
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{\an8}that they just
pulled the woman out of
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and flames come out
right after him.
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And this is all in
a matter of, like, 15 seconds.
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That was
my first fatal fire.
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So the day gets over,
we get relieved.
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Um, we're told by the senior
officer on scene, "Go home."
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Because two of us were
very young, we're brand new.
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"Go home."
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Well, I walk
into the bathroom.
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We had Pert Plus
for shampoo
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and we all-- anyone who knows
what Pert Plus is
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knows what it smelled like
and I was huffing it.
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I took almost
a quarter of a bottle of it
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and just drove it
into my nose
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and I'm sitting in the fetal
position in my bathtub
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just huffing Pert Plus
trying to get rid
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of the smell
of a burnt old lady
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that I never thought
I was gonna smell.
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That was three months
into my-- my career.
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I didn't even
graduate high school yet.
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{\an8}[interviewer]
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{\an8}What they do is they bring
everyone who was on scene,
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{\an8}especially first on scene,
into this.
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So, there were some cops,
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there were some EMTS
that were there,
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and there was,
the truck I was on,
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all members of that
and a few other firefighters.
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And basically, um...
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it was asked, "All right, so you
guys were here at this call,
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someone died, uh.
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You guys want to talk
about how that affected you?
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You wanna
share some feelings?"
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And of course,
it's a room full of all men
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and, as I remember it,
not one person shared anything.
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And I may be
slightly incorrect with that,
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but the one thing
I do remember,
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and it sticks out
with me to this day,
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is at one point,
the guy running that was like,
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"Okay, guys, well,
coffee and donuts in the back."
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[tense music building]
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[Riggle] Every first responder
has the one call
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that sticks with them.
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It's true for Keith Hanks,
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and it's true
for his fellow firefighters,
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police officers, and EMTS
in rural towns in Massachusetts
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and its neighboring communities.
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[Gambino] I think my second fire
was a fatal fire.
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That's 18 years old.
Getting off the truck.
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Didn't think any of it then,
but I can still remember...
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that day.
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It was a four-year-old girl
who was struck by a car.
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She was dragged 62 feet.
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Her whole family was there.
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We literally had to pry her
from her grandfather's arms,
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and that whole scene
and the chaos
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and it just happened
to be a busy day.
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A lot of people
in front of a restaurant,
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so, um,
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a lot of people watching us,
you know,
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drag this poor child out, so.
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And I made the mistake
of looking at her eyes,
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and that's
a big no-no, so, um,
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that's the call
that-- that stuck with me.
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And as soon as I walked in,
I noticed a table
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and there was a shell casing
from a 40 caliber
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and the smell of gunpowder
was in the air mixed with blood.
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I can still see the--
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the boy who succumbed
to his injuries' face.
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An elderly lady
hit a trailer truck head on.
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She was, you know,
dead at the scene.
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The floorboards
in the car just crumpled up
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and were, like,
all around her leg.
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Quadruple homicide.
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And it was
kind of shocking
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seeing that hatred
and damage
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that one family member
did to another.
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The shit that was happening,
the calls we were going to,
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the murders
I was going to.
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The rapes...
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the domestics, the women
I was seeing getting beaten.
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I found all three kids,
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and I pulled the only one
that survived out myself.
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And we realized,
"Oh, shit,
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we just walked into
an active crime scene."
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There was a person
around the corner
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that was tied
and executed.
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No police, no fire,
no one's with us except for us.
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It was probably over
two and a half to three years,
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but I had
multiple suicides
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and multiple
high critical incidents.
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And one of my firefighter's
high school friends
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shot himself
with a rifle in a bathtub.
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Watching people die, like,
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how do you process that
when you're 19 years old?
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[Riggle] Becoming
a first responder often means
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pursuing the family business,
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or it's the next step
after leaving the military.
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{\an8} Or, in many instances,
it's both,
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{\an8} a lifetime path laid
at an especially young age.
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[Keith] My family is, uh,
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military and firefighter based
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dating back
all the way to 1875.
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Uh, so, a lot of
my earliest memories growing up
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were seeing my--
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my family, my--
my mother's side of the family,
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which was all
I really had in my life,
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um, running out the door
going to-- going to emergencies.
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Yeah, my dad was--
actually,
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he was a firefighter
in the Air Force,
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and then he was
on-call firefighter
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in Townsend for 17 years.
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{\an8}So, I used to go,
and I was, like, the--
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{\an8}the gofer who'd go get
all the guys a beer
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{\an8}out of the fridge
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{\an8}and, uh, I'd, you know,
hang out at the stations.
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{\an8}Then when I was 18,
I decided
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{\an8}that's what I want to do,
give it a shot.
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{\an8}My whole family
was either police,
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{\an8}fire, or EMS
at some point.
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{\an8}Father was
in the military for 25 years,
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{\an8}three time Vietnam vet.
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{\an8}Uh, every day seeing him in
his uniform when I was younger,
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{\an8}I could remember
he wore it with such pride.
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I mean, the main reason
why I chose the fire service
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is 'cause I had
a friend in the Marines,
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one of my best friends
who I'm still in touch with now,
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who joined
the Baltimore Fire Department.
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I went in the Navy
right out of high school.
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When I got out,
I joined the, uh,
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Townsend Fire Department
as a call member.
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Started in the military.
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I was actually
in the third Ranger Battalion
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for a brief period,
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uh, had some combat
experience there.
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{\an8}Honestly, um, it was
kind of my dad's fault.
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{\an8}Got a phone call
from the dispatch center,
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{\an8}they needed an ambulance
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{\an8}over on the next street over
for a car accident.
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{\an8}My dad looks at me,
I'm 16 years old,
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{\an8}he looks at me and says, "You
want to come with me to help?"
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{\an8}I'm like, "Sure."
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{\an8}And from there
I was kind of hooked.
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{\an8}[interviewer]
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{\an8}Mm-hm.
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{\an8}Oh, yes.
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{\an8}I'm sure nobody would like
to admit that he did, but--
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{\an8}He didn't talk
about anything.
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{\an8}"We don't talk about it."
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{\an8}"Oh, Dad, what was that?"
"We're not talking about that."
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{\an8}"Okay."
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{\an8}[chuckles]
Yes. Very much so.
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{\an8}- It was what I knew.
- [interviewer] Yeah.
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I knew what to expect.
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It was something,
like, a safety net.
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He had seen some awful,
awful things
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and I remember,
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I think
it was one Christmas eve,
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we were coming home
from a Christmas party,
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and there was a call
and he thought, you know,
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"It's a car accident.
I'll just go real quick.
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I'm gonna leave
you two in the car."
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It was just me
and my oldest son,
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and it was fatal.
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Dead on impact, and that was
what he saw on Christmas eve.
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And then I'm like, you know,
he gets in the truck
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00:08:36,558 --> 00:08:38,518
and I could tell he's upset
and I'm like,
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"Hey, you know, are you okay?"
And he's like, "No, we're fine."
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I'm like, "Are you sure?"
"No, we're--
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we're fine,
like, everything's good."
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It was, uh,
why am I even mentioning it?
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So, it definitely
affected quite a bit.
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Even, um...
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later our nephew
had killed himself
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and he was a twin
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00:09:00,832 --> 00:09:02,960
and his nephew,
my other nephew, found him,
219
00:09:03,001 --> 00:09:06,171
so he was identical,
so it really messed them all up.
220
00:09:07,130 --> 00:09:10,050
And I remember Brian
having a conversation with him
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saying, "Look, you know,
I hold everything in.
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00:09:13,887 --> 00:09:15,097
Don't be like me."
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00:09:25,941 --> 00:09:27,317
{\an8}Can I ask you
a question then?
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00:09:27,985 --> 00:09:29,236
{\an8}How would you
bring that up?
225
00:09:29,861 --> 00:09:31,405
How would you start
that conversation?
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00:09:32,531 --> 00:09:35,158
So, starting
the conversation's hard enough,
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00:09:35,200 --> 00:09:36,868
but I think
between it being...
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{\an8}an extremely masculine job
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{\an8}where we see terrible things
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{\an8}and it's so--
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If you look at
firefighters nowadays,
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most of them are,
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"My dad was a firefighter.
My uncle was a firefighter."
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00:09:49,923 --> 00:09:52,384
It's always somebody
in the family was a firefighter,
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00:09:52,426 --> 00:09:53,677
so this is
something they know.
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00:09:55,846 --> 00:09:57,639
But they know
the fun side of it.
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Like, "Dude, I saw you
coming out of that building,
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00:09:59,808 --> 00:10:01,226
looks awesome,
this is great.
239
00:10:01,268 --> 00:10:03,061
Like, you're a hero!"
240
00:10:03,103 --> 00:10:05,022
But they don't see the ones
that you didn't save,
241
00:10:05,063 --> 00:10:06,773
and they don't hear
those conversations
242
00:10:06,815 --> 00:10:08,734
of the dark side of it.
243
00:10:08,775 --> 00:10:10,193
Like, yeah, it's great
244
00:10:10,235 --> 00:10:12,904
and it's such
a commendable job
245
00:10:12,946 --> 00:10:14,573
that not many can do.
246
00:10:16,450 --> 00:10:17,701
But there's
a reason for that.
247
00:10:20,329 --> 00:10:22,122
[Riggle] First responders
are America's heroes
248
00:10:22,164 --> 00:10:24,583
for what they do
on a daily basis,
249
00:10:24,624 --> 00:10:27,210
but no one wants to talk
about what they see,
250
00:10:27,252 --> 00:10:29,921
especially the uniformed
men and women themselves.
251
00:10:30,464 --> 00:10:34,176
{\an8}We didn't really talk
about the bad stuff that we saw.
252
00:10:34,217 --> 00:10:37,387
{\an8}I mean, there were a lot of
fires back in the late '90s,
253
00:10:37,429 --> 00:10:40,349
{\an8}early 2000s that we went to,
a lot of bad car accidents.
254
00:10:40,390 --> 00:10:42,184
{\an8}You just never
talked about it.
255
00:10:42,225 --> 00:10:44,519
{\an8}Like, everybody says,
"You're-- you're a firefighter,
256
00:10:44,561 --> 00:10:46,355
{\an8}you're supposed
to be tough.
257
00:10:46,396 --> 00:10:47,439
{\an8}You know, you don't...
258
00:10:48,648 --> 00:10:50,525
{\an8}You help people,
you don't need help."
259
00:10:50,567 --> 00:10:51,818
{\an8}[interviewer]
260
00:10:53,111 --> 00:10:54,196
{\an8}Yes.
261
00:10:56,990 --> 00:10:58,075
{\an8}Here we go again, right?
262
00:10:58,825 --> 00:11:00,744
{\an8}Yeah, we-- we follow
the same path.
263
00:11:00,786 --> 00:11:03,080
{\an8}So, in the military, again,
you-- you can't be that guy,
264
00:11:03,121 --> 00:11:05,665
{\an8}the weak link in the chain
that's talking about it.
265
00:11:05,707 --> 00:11:09,211
{\an8}So, uh, my first experience
with death was at 19 years old.
266
00:11:09,252 --> 00:11:11,838
{\an8}I saw an eight-year-old kid
step on a land mine,
267
00:11:11,880 --> 00:11:14,257
{\an8}and all the thoughts
that go with that
268
00:11:14,299 --> 00:11:16,051
{\an8}and nothing
was dealt with.
269
00:11:16,093 --> 00:11:18,512
{\an8}Nobody talked about it,
my-- my son,
270
00:11:18,553 --> 00:11:20,597
{\an8}wife, kids, they probably
don't even know that,
271
00:11:20,639 --> 00:11:22,891
{\an8}but it's just one of
those things that we deal with.
272
00:11:22,933 --> 00:11:25,435
And then I get
that four-year-old girl,
273
00:11:25,477 --> 00:11:27,562
and they don't look
too different from that trauma
274
00:11:27,604 --> 00:11:28,855
that I saw with
the eight-year-old,
275
00:11:28,897 --> 00:11:30,315
so it just continues.
276
00:11:30,357 --> 00:11:31,858
It's just
a continuous path,
277
00:11:31,900 --> 00:11:34,111
and we do tend
to like that same work
278
00:11:34,152 --> 00:11:35,612
because we are trying
to help,
279
00:11:35,654 --> 00:11:37,114
we're trying
to do the right thing,
280
00:11:37,155 --> 00:11:38,490
and it's just kind of
one of those calling things
281
00:11:38,532 --> 00:11:39,866
that we-- we hear about.
282
00:11:39,908 --> 00:11:40,992
{\an8}Every day was...
283
00:11:41,618 --> 00:11:44,579
{\an8}a routine day for us
was somebody's worst day
284
00:11:44,621 --> 00:11:45,831
{\an8}all the time and...
285
00:11:46,748 --> 00:11:49,126
{\an8}- it gets to you eventually.
- [interviewer] Yeah.
286
00:11:49,167 --> 00:11:52,796
You're gonna see death,
dismemberment, heartache...
287
00:11:54,047 --> 00:11:56,091
but you don't
actually comprehend it
288
00:11:56,133 --> 00:11:58,051
if that makes sense.
289
00:11:58,093 --> 00:12:00,262
You can understand something
without having to go through it,
290
00:12:00,303 --> 00:12:02,347
but when
you're going through it,
291
00:12:02,389 --> 00:12:03,849
the gravity
of the situation
292
00:12:03,890 --> 00:12:05,892
is much heavier
than I ever expected.
293
00:12:05,934 --> 00:12:08,145
{\an8}You know, you-- you gotta be
the tough guy because that's...
294
00:12:08,770 --> 00:12:11,523
{\an8}the field that you're in, you--
you gotta be the tough guy,
295
00:12:11,565 --> 00:12:13,400
{\an8}and, you know,
296
00:12:13,442 --> 00:12:17,904
{\an8}that being part
of the culture
297
00:12:17,946 --> 00:12:19,531
{\an8}doesn't help any of us,
298
00:12:19,573 --> 00:12:22,284
{\an8}and I don't have any experience
insofar as,
299
00:12:22,325 --> 00:12:24,244
{\an8}you know, going to talk
to somebody, you know,
300
00:12:24,286 --> 00:12:26,997
{\an8}like a psychologist
or a psychiatrist or whatever.
301
00:12:27,038 --> 00:12:28,582
{\an8}Or a counselor,
you know, whatever.
302
00:12:28,623 --> 00:12:29,791
{\an8}I don't have
any experience with that
303
00:12:29,833 --> 00:12:31,835
{\an8}because it wasn't accepted.
304
00:12:31,877 --> 00:12:33,295
{\an8}[interviewer]
305
00:12:35,714 --> 00:12:38,425
{\an8}Not regarding,
no-- not regarding,
306
00:12:38,467 --> 00:12:40,177
{\an8}you know, PTSD
or anything like that.
307
00:12:40,218 --> 00:12:42,512
You know, I mean,
my-- my primary care doctor,
308
00:12:42,554 --> 00:12:45,599
yeah, I-- I talked to him
about some depression, but...
309
00:12:46,391 --> 00:12:47,893
You see bad accidents
310
00:12:47,934 --> 00:12:49,394
and I'm not trying
to be a tough guy,
311
00:12:49,436 --> 00:12:50,896
you see things
you normally your body--
312
00:12:50,937 --> 00:12:53,190
you try
to condition yourself for it,
313
00:12:53,231 --> 00:12:55,484
you try to get ready for it,
but you never really are.
314
00:12:55,525 --> 00:12:57,360
This stuff will stay
with you in your mind.
315
00:12:57,402 --> 00:12:59,029
You know, like I said,
316
00:12:59,070 --> 00:13:01,156
it was taboo
to talk about bad things then.
317
00:13:02,282 --> 00:13:04,075
{\an8}It's the stigma is
the biggest one
318
00:13:04,117 --> 00:13:06,578
{\an8}is that, you know,
men don't meditate,
319
00:13:06,620 --> 00:13:08,413
{\an8}you know, men don't
have feelings, men don't--
320
00:13:09,414 --> 00:13:11,374
{\an8}you know, there's--
there's a lot of walls up
321
00:13:11,416 --> 00:13:14,044
{\an8}from our fathers and those
who came before us
322
00:13:14,085 --> 00:13:16,963
{\an8}that it's just-- it's not
talked about, you know?
323
00:13:17,005 --> 00:13:18,465
There's not many people
324
00:13:18,507 --> 00:13:20,425
who openly say
they meditate, you know?
325
00:13:20,467 --> 00:13:22,886
There-- there are more now,
but not in the fire service,
326
00:13:22,928 --> 00:13:25,096
not in the military,
you know, um.
327
00:13:25,931 --> 00:13:28,016
To even acknowledge
that you have emotion
328
00:13:28,058 --> 00:13:29,726
in the military
is weakness.
329
00:13:29,768 --> 00:13:30,936
You know what I mean?
Like, it's--
330
00:13:31,978 --> 00:13:34,898
we're not anywhere near
where we need to be,
331
00:13:34,940 --> 00:13:36,775
and to be
perfectly honest with you,
332
00:13:36,816 --> 00:13:37,984
I don't know
how I could...
333
00:13:39,569 --> 00:13:41,029
be an infantryman
334
00:13:41,071 --> 00:13:43,740
and have
the feelings I have now.
335
00:13:43,782 --> 00:13:45,992
And it's the same thing
with the fire service, you know?
336
00:13:47,619 --> 00:13:52,123
We subconsciously
turn the dials down
337
00:13:52,165 --> 00:13:53,792
for certain emotions
338
00:13:53,833 --> 00:13:55,877
because we have to
339
00:13:55,919 --> 00:13:58,797
to perform at the level
that we're needed to.
340
00:13:58,838 --> 00:14:01,258
People need you to be strong,
they need you to be calm.
341
00:14:01,299 --> 00:14:03,468
If you show up on scene
and you're a mess
342
00:14:03,510 --> 00:14:05,220
and you're crying,
you're-- you're not helping.
343
00:14:05,262 --> 00:14:07,806
So, empathy has to go down
a little bit, you know,
344
00:14:07,847 --> 00:14:09,891
so you can think
more logically.
345
00:14:09,933 --> 00:14:11,351
You know,
left brain, right brain,
346
00:14:11,393 --> 00:14:12,477
whatever you want to call it,
you know,
347
00:14:13,061 --> 00:14:15,063
No one's doing it
on purpose,
348
00:14:15,105 --> 00:14:16,731
but you have to,
and over time...
349
00:14:18,024 --> 00:14:20,860
you learn that that's
how you get through these calls,
350
00:14:20,902 --> 00:14:23,071
that's how you rise
to the occasion,
351
00:14:23,113 --> 00:14:24,781
that's how you think clearly
352
00:14:24,823 --> 00:14:27,409
is you let go
of some of the things that...
353
00:14:29,452 --> 00:14:32,330
you know,
weaker people would bring.
354
00:14:33,248 --> 00:14:36,668
That's-- that's not strength in
those moments of extreme stress.
355
00:14:37,294 --> 00:14:40,630
But the problem is when you numb
yourself like that over time...
356
00:14:41,673 --> 00:14:43,883
you don't--
you don't just turn it off
357
00:14:43,925 --> 00:14:45,719
at the end
of the shift.
358
00:14:45,760 --> 00:14:48,680
It-- it becomes who you are.
You know, you change.
359
00:14:48,722 --> 00:14:49,973
Your whole life changes.
360
00:14:50,682 --> 00:14:53,393
And if you ask
any spouse
361
00:14:53,435 --> 00:14:56,062
who's been married to someone,
you know, in the fire service,
362
00:14:56,104 --> 00:14:58,315
they'll tell you,
"Oh, yeah, he's changed here
363
00:14:58,356 --> 00:14:59,733
or she's changed."
364
00:15:00,191 --> 00:15:02,152
It takes a while
to get the perspective
365
00:15:02,193 --> 00:15:05,697
of what
it actually does to you, uh.
366
00:15:06,448 --> 00:15:09,326
But, uh, a number of years ago
I came home from a shift
367
00:15:09,367 --> 00:15:11,036
and was talking
with my wife,
368
00:15:11,077 --> 00:15:12,454
and she was like,
"You're changing.
369
00:15:13,163 --> 00:15:15,915
Yeah, you're-- you're not
the same person right now.
370
00:15:15,957 --> 00:15:17,584
There's something going on.
You're changing."
371
00:15:17,626 --> 00:15:19,044
That's what happens.
372
00:15:19,085 --> 00:15:21,046
You-- you adapt
to your environment,
373
00:15:21,087 --> 00:15:23,214
and that's what
we do in this profession.
374
00:15:23,256 --> 00:15:26,676
You know, in the military,
when I was 18 years old...
375
00:15:27,886 --> 00:15:30,096
I was very pliable,
376
00:15:30,138 --> 00:15:31,473
and it was...
377
00:15:33,391 --> 00:15:35,101
beaten into us that,
378
00:15:35,143 --> 00:15:37,062
you know,
"You don't feel this,
379
00:15:37,103 --> 00:15:39,189
you don't think that way.
380
00:15:39,230 --> 00:15:41,983
You think this way"
and it's brainwashing, it is.
381
00:15:42,025 --> 00:15:43,443
Let's call
a spade a spade.
382
00:15:44,027 --> 00:15:45,737
Uh, I never wanted to admit
that I was brainwashed,
383
00:15:45,779 --> 00:15:47,572
but I was
absolutely brainwashed.
384
00:15:47,614 --> 00:15:50,909
But I had to be
to do the job
385
00:15:50,950 --> 00:15:53,620
that I chose,
to be fair.
386
00:15:53,662 --> 00:15:55,914
And then
there's no resources,
387
00:15:55,955 --> 00:15:57,290
no direction as to...
388
00:15:58,375 --> 00:16:00,585
how to turn
any of that back on,
389
00:16:00,627 --> 00:16:02,837
and you can't live
in this world
390
00:16:02,879 --> 00:16:05,382
without these things
and be happy.
391
00:16:05,924 --> 00:16:08,093
There is a little bit
of resentment, like, "Why?
392
00:16:08,802 --> 00:16:10,345
Why can't you
talk about it with me?
393
00:16:10,387 --> 00:16:12,597
If we're partners,
if we're half and half,
394
00:16:12,639 --> 00:16:14,391
you should be able
to talk about it."
395
00:16:14,432 --> 00:16:16,393
But I almost
feel like with most...
396
00:16:17,352 --> 00:16:20,897
first responders,
it's like you feel full
397
00:16:20,939 --> 00:16:23,733
and you picture yourself
full of this black ink
398
00:16:23,775 --> 00:16:25,527
or black paint,
399
00:16:25,568 --> 00:16:27,404
and if you want to express that
and tell them like,
400
00:16:27,445 --> 00:16:29,114
"This is all
the awful things I saw."
401
00:16:29,155 --> 00:16:31,783
You feel like now
that black paint's on you,
402
00:16:31,825 --> 00:16:33,451
and you don't want
to get them dirty
403
00:16:33,493 --> 00:16:35,620
with all
the nitty-gritty things you see.
404
00:16:35,662 --> 00:16:37,205
You want to keep them clean
405
00:16:37,247 --> 00:16:39,457
or you want to keep them
innocent, kind of.
406
00:16:42,043 --> 00:16:44,254
{\an8}- [interviewer]
- [Keith] Sure.
407
00:16:45,880 --> 00:16:48,258
In 1999, I started
working for her father
408
00:16:48,299 --> 00:16:50,719
on a part-time job
along with the fire department.
409
00:16:50,760 --> 00:16:52,595
She opened up my world
to so many things.
410
00:16:52,637 --> 00:16:55,849
She showed me
what love really was.
411
00:16:55,890 --> 00:16:57,517
In 2000,
we ended up getting married.
412
00:16:58,643 --> 00:17:00,019
I thought
I had everything figured out.
413
00:17:00,061 --> 00:17:01,521
I thought
the world was my oyster.
414
00:17:01,563 --> 00:17:03,732
I had all my stuff...
415
00:17:04,691 --> 00:17:06,234
that I knew about,
416
00:17:06,276 --> 00:17:07,444
but I didn't think
anything could go wrong.
417
00:17:07,485 --> 00:17:09,487
[emotional music playing]
418
00:17:12,866 --> 00:17:14,284
It did.
419
00:17:14,325 --> 00:17:15,994
We had a--
Heather and I...
420
00:17:17,036 --> 00:17:18,455
had hit
some turbulent waters.
421
00:17:18,496 --> 00:17:19,914
I was starting
to show some signs
422
00:17:19,956 --> 00:17:21,499
of what
we would later figure out
423
00:17:21,541 --> 00:17:23,251
is my-- is my PTSD...
424
00:17:24,210 --> 00:17:26,755
and I
kind of became unhinged.
425
00:17:26,796 --> 00:17:29,340
We had a physical
and verbal fight.
426
00:17:29,382 --> 00:17:31,176
So we spent
the next two weeks separated.
427
00:17:31,217 --> 00:17:33,011
I live back with
my parents for a little bit
428
00:17:33,052 --> 00:17:36,306
and she comes over on
a Friday night, April 11, 2003.
429
00:17:37,515 --> 00:17:38,850
And's like,
"This is dumb.
430
00:17:39,851 --> 00:17:41,144
I love you."
431
00:17:41,186 --> 00:17:43,897
And we forgave
each other.
432
00:17:44,606 --> 00:17:46,524
We're like, "Let's just
go back to our lives.
433
00:17:46,566 --> 00:17:47,942
We have two kids.
434
00:17:47,984 --> 00:17:49,569
We're-- we're 24
and 25 years old,
435
00:17:49,611 --> 00:17:51,029
like, we have our whole life
ahead of us.
436
00:17:51,070 --> 00:17:52,113
You have a career
ahead of you.
437
00:17:54,032 --> 00:17:56,075
You made a mistake.
We're gonna get you help."
438
00:17:56,117 --> 00:17:57,869
She says to me,
"We're gonna get you help."
439
00:17:58,870 --> 00:18:01,039
And we made plans
with my friend
440
00:18:01,080 --> 00:18:03,583
Dave Gambino and his wife
at the time, Christina.
441
00:18:04,042 --> 00:18:05,752
So, we go back
to our house in Lancaster,
442
00:18:05,794 --> 00:18:07,170
we meet them,
we get in my truck.
443
00:18:07,212 --> 00:18:08,755
Me and Dave
get in the front,
444
00:18:08,797 --> 00:18:10,799
which was weird for some reason,
I don't--
445
00:18:10,840 --> 00:18:12,467
We normally had
couples-couples, you know?
446
00:18:12,509 --> 00:18:13,968
I sit with my wife,
he says with his,
447
00:18:14,010 --> 00:18:15,637
but we didn't do that
that night.
448
00:18:15,678 --> 00:18:17,639
Usually, it was Keith
and Heather in the front
449
00:18:17,680 --> 00:18:19,557
and my wife and I
in the back.
450
00:18:21,226 --> 00:18:23,728
It was just--
I don't know how that happened.
451
00:18:23,770 --> 00:18:25,146
And we go.
It's raining out.
452
00:18:26,064 --> 00:18:27,899
It was-- uh,
it was April, so it wasn't--
453
00:18:27,941 --> 00:18:29,859
it was, like, 7:30, so
the sun was down at that point
454
00:18:29,901 --> 00:18:31,361
so it was dark
455
00:18:31,402 --> 00:18:33,404
and I end up behind someone
who's going kind of slow
456
00:18:33,446 --> 00:18:34,614
and I end up
in the fast lane.
457
00:18:34,656 --> 00:18:35,907
"Man, what the hell,
I want to go down.
458
00:18:35,949 --> 00:18:37,408
I want to get
to this restaurant.
459
00:18:37,450 --> 00:18:39,035
I want to have a good time
with my wife and my friends."
460
00:18:39,077 --> 00:18:40,745
And so I...
461
00:18:41,287 --> 00:18:42,372
pass him on the right.
462
00:18:43,248 --> 00:18:44,916
And as I'm passing him
on the right,
463
00:18:44,958 --> 00:18:46,042
well, it was wet...
464
00:18:46,876 --> 00:18:49,212
and I made this
slight maneuver with the wheel,
465
00:18:49,254 --> 00:18:51,589
and I completely
lose control of my truck.
466
00:18:52,131 --> 00:18:53,675
We spin a bunch of times
467
00:18:53,716 --> 00:18:56,135
and the only thing
I can honestly remember
468
00:18:56,177 --> 00:18:57,762
is the screams.
469
00:18:59,681 --> 00:19:00,765
And...
470
00:19:02,475 --> 00:19:03,726
in particular,
Heather's scream.
471
00:19:05,812 --> 00:19:08,314
The noise, the sound,
the-- the smell.
472
00:19:09,440 --> 00:19:10,525
I can...
473
00:19:11,568 --> 00:19:13,820
distinctly remember
the noise of their--
474
00:19:13,862 --> 00:19:16,531
us losing control of that car
and going backwards in the dirt.
475
00:19:18,157 --> 00:19:20,201
I remember thinking
that we're just gonna stop
476
00:19:20,243 --> 00:19:21,786
and this is it.
477
00:19:21,828 --> 00:19:23,162
We spun out.
Let's continue on our way.
478
00:19:24,372 --> 00:19:26,249
But, as we know,
we didn't do that.
479
00:19:26,291 --> 00:19:27,667
So I got knocked out.
480
00:19:27,709 --> 00:19:29,294
I took out
the driver's window,
481
00:19:29,335 --> 00:19:31,713
driver's side window,
uh, with my head.
482
00:19:32,297 --> 00:19:34,215
I remember
waking up at one point
483
00:19:34,257 --> 00:19:36,342
not knowing where I was,
not knowing who I was.
484
00:19:36,384 --> 00:19:38,469
I looked back and I saw
485
00:19:38,511 --> 00:19:41,055
the love of my life's face,
the mother of my children,
486
00:19:41,097 --> 00:19:42,432
and I knew exactly...
487
00:19:43,558 --> 00:19:45,143
where she was
and it wasn't here.
488
00:19:45,184 --> 00:19:46,644
I think when I knew...
489
00:19:50,106 --> 00:19:52,233
that it was terrible
490
00:19:52,275 --> 00:19:55,236
was when I watched
her pupils dilate.
491
00:19:56,321 --> 00:19:58,907
Then I knew
it was terrible.
492
00:19:59,824 --> 00:20:02,994
We had hit a tree
going backwards
493
00:20:03,036 --> 00:20:04,746
at about 60 miles an hour.
494
00:20:04,787 --> 00:20:06,539
Came through the cab,
495
00:20:06,581 --> 00:20:08,166
the rear of the cab
of the truck, and struck Heather
496
00:20:08,207 --> 00:20:10,126
in the back of the head,
snapping her brain stem.
497
00:20:10,168 --> 00:20:13,421
Of course, it seems like forever
waiting in the car, waiting.
498
00:20:13,463 --> 00:20:14,964
Now, I know what they--
After that point,
499
00:20:15,006 --> 00:20:16,507
I knew what they meant by,
500
00:20:16,549 --> 00:20:18,509
"What took you
so long to get there?"
501
00:20:18,551 --> 00:20:20,929
Um, but it couldn't have been
any more than a few minutes,
502
00:20:20,970 --> 00:20:24,474
Lancaster fire was on scene
and, you know, of course,
503
00:20:24,515 --> 00:20:27,268
we knew-- everybody
knew each other back then.
504
00:20:27,310 --> 00:20:28,895
You know what I mean,
I knew the guy,
505
00:20:28,937 --> 00:20:31,064
the first Lancaster
firefighter on scene
506
00:20:31,105 --> 00:20:32,732
was a good friend of mine,
507
00:20:32,774 --> 00:20:35,026
you know,
and looking at his face,
508
00:20:35,068 --> 00:20:36,152
he knew it was real, too.
509
00:20:37,195 --> 00:20:39,405
They were transported
to UMass in Worcester
510
00:20:39,447 --> 00:20:42,367
and my wife and I
went to Clinton Hospital.
511
00:20:43,326 --> 00:20:45,411
And we--
She was treated and released,
512
00:20:45,453 --> 00:20:47,205
and we went to Worcester
to see Keith and Heather,
513
00:20:47,246 --> 00:20:49,582
and I remember
Keith's stepdad
514
00:20:49,624 --> 00:20:52,085
coming out and telling us
what was going on.
515
00:20:53,586 --> 00:20:55,546
We knew Keith was still
in the trauma room at UMass
516
00:20:55,588 --> 00:20:57,757
being assessed,
but he was okay
517
00:20:57,799 --> 00:20:59,842
and then we found out
that Heather didn't make it.
518
00:21:00,802 --> 00:21:01,886
But...
519
00:21:03,429 --> 00:21:05,098
I guess, you know,
thinking about it,
520
00:21:05,139 --> 00:21:08,059
I-- I already knew that
in a way, you know?
521
00:21:08,101 --> 00:21:09,268
But...
522
00:21:10,144 --> 00:21:12,772
They took her to the hospital,
they put her on life support,
523
00:21:12,814 --> 00:21:14,607
and that Saturday,
524
00:21:14,649 --> 00:21:16,901
um, we pulled the plug.
525
00:21:19,320 --> 00:21:21,280
And that wasn't even
the worst part of that weekend.
526
00:21:24,742 --> 00:21:26,995
It was the beginning
527
00:21:27,036 --> 00:21:28,496
of the worst weekend
of my life...
528
00:21:30,081 --> 00:21:31,541
because I then had to go home
529
00:21:31,582 --> 00:21:34,002
after I got
cleared out of the ICU
530
00:21:34,043 --> 00:21:35,878
from UMass,
leaving my...
531
00:21:37,088 --> 00:21:39,173
my wife on a bed.
532
00:21:40,216 --> 00:21:41,634
I had to go home
and tell her kids
533
00:21:41,676 --> 00:21:43,011
that mommy
wasn't coming home.
534
00:21:44,679 --> 00:21:46,639
My ten-month-old daughter,
535
00:21:46,681 --> 00:21:47,765
who couldn't even speak yet...
536
00:21:48,975 --> 00:21:51,644
my just over
two-year-old son.
537
00:21:51,686 --> 00:21:54,188
And so I go
to my grandmother's house,
538
00:21:54,230 --> 00:21:56,983
and I sit
in my uncle's bedroom
539
00:21:57,025 --> 00:21:58,985
with my children,
540
00:21:59,027 --> 00:22:01,070
and before I can even
get it out of my mouth,
541
00:22:01,112 --> 00:22:02,864
before I can even tell my kids,
542
00:22:02,905 --> 00:22:05,324
"Daddy's really sorry,
but Mommy,
543
00:22:05,366 --> 00:22:06,993
Mommy's gone,"
before I can even do it,
544
00:22:07,035 --> 00:22:08,244
my son goes,
"Where's Mommy?"
545
00:22:10,872 --> 00:22:11,956
I didn't cry.
546
00:22:12,832 --> 00:22:14,333
I didn't shed
one tear that day.
547
00:22:15,918 --> 00:22:17,962
I decided right there
my soul was gone.
548
00:22:18,004 --> 00:22:20,506
The rest of the damage
had been done
549
00:22:20,548 --> 00:22:23,051
and I was never
going to show emotion again.
550
00:22:25,261 --> 00:22:26,888
And I did
a really good job of it.
551
00:22:29,307 --> 00:22:32,101
And I never actually told
my kids their mother was gone.
552
00:22:32,143 --> 00:22:33,561
I didn't have to.
553
00:22:33,603 --> 00:22:34,604
They knew
because then they were crying.
554
00:22:35,354 --> 00:22:37,023
There were
seven people in that house,
555
00:22:37,065 --> 00:22:38,357
they were all crying,
but I was the only one
556
00:22:38,399 --> 00:22:40,485
that was
completely dry-faced.
557
00:22:49,786 --> 00:22:50,870
It was hell.
558
00:23:01,047 --> 00:23:03,257
[Riggle] In Townsend
and across the country,
559
00:23:03,299 --> 00:23:05,843
the government's attempts
to encourage dialogue
560
00:23:05,885 --> 00:23:08,721
after first responders
experience trauma
561
00:23:08,763 --> 00:23:10,723
has historically
centered around
562
00:23:10,765 --> 00:23:13,267
critical incident
stress debriefings.
563
00:23:15,645 --> 00:23:18,272
{\an8}So, now you've got critical
incident stress debriefings
564
00:23:18,314 --> 00:23:20,775
{\an8}and then you've got,
um, a new one,
565
00:23:20,817 --> 00:23:22,527
{\an8}critical incident
stress managements,
566
00:23:22,568 --> 00:23:25,363
{\an8}and you've got some
that are supposed to occur
567
00:23:25,404 --> 00:23:27,240
{\an8}immediately right after
the event
568
00:23:27,281 --> 00:23:28,783
{\an8}and some that should occur
with, you know, no sooner
569
00:23:28,825 --> 00:23:30,952
{\an8}than 48 hours
after the event,
570
00:23:30,993 --> 00:23:34,372
{\an8}and hopefully
they're getting better now
571
00:23:34,413 --> 00:23:37,917
{\an8}because historically,
it was somebody from dispatch...
572
00:23:38,876 --> 00:23:41,587
{\an8}or it was
one of the supervisors
573
00:23:41,629 --> 00:23:43,673
{\an8}who was on duty that day
574
00:23:43,714 --> 00:23:47,135
{\an8}who, honestly,
can barely handle a call
575
00:23:47,176 --> 00:23:48,636
{\an8}much less a group,
576
00:23:48,678 --> 00:23:51,264
{\an8}um, that really
shouldn't be doing this
577
00:23:51,305 --> 00:23:52,682
{\an8}'cause you can do
more harm than good.
578
00:23:53,474 --> 00:23:54,851
And they probably did.
579
00:23:55,560 --> 00:23:58,563
And I think what--
sort of this insidious
580
00:23:58,604 --> 00:24:00,731
behind-the-scenes thing
that nobody really understood
581
00:24:00,773 --> 00:24:03,151
back then was,
"Oh, are you going
582
00:24:03,192 --> 00:24:05,319
to the critical incident
stress debriefing or whatever?"
583
00:24:05,361 --> 00:24:06,779
And there's always some--
584
00:24:08,197 --> 00:24:10,950
somebody behind the scenes
who is, you know, the official,
585
00:24:10,992 --> 00:24:12,869
old-school representative
of the crowd who's like,
586
00:24:12,910 --> 00:24:14,453
"Oh, you gonna go in there
and share some feelings?
587
00:24:15,037 --> 00:24:16,455
Yeah, don't trip over
in your feelings in there."
588
00:24:17,081 --> 00:24:19,667
And so as the new people
in the group, you're thinking,
589
00:24:19,709 --> 00:24:20,877
"All right,
that's my role model.
590
00:24:20,918 --> 00:24:22,003
That's what I got to be."
591
00:24:22,962 --> 00:24:25,173
That-- that--
that stigma right there,
592
00:24:25,214 --> 00:24:26,632
that's a big part of it,
that's a huge
593
00:24:26,674 --> 00:24:28,426
puzzle piece
right in the middle.
594
00:24:28,467 --> 00:24:30,595
In certain parts of my career
it wasn't boasted
595
00:24:30,636 --> 00:24:32,722
that we had
those meetings.
596
00:24:33,681 --> 00:24:34,891
It was boasted that,
597
00:24:34,932 --> 00:24:37,268
"Hey, we got through that."
598
00:24:37,310 --> 00:24:39,353
We had a guy, um,
599
00:24:39,395 --> 00:24:40,479
a gentleman
that I worked with.
600
00:24:40,521 --> 00:24:41,898
He was a police officer,
601
00:24:41,939 --> 00:24:43,316
uh, in the town
that I worked in,
602
00:24:43,357 --> 00:24:45,776
and he went
to his hometown
603
00:24:45,818 --> 00:24:49,280
and, uh, for a friend's funeral
and he was murdered.
604
00:24:50,656 --> 00:24:53,576
The boast was,
"Hey, not one of us
605
00:24:53,618 --> 00:24:54,744
had to talk to somebody.
606
00:24:55,620 --> 00:24:57,455
Not one of us.
We're all good."
607
00:24:57,496 --> 00:24:59,248
After a bad call,
we'd, you know,
608
00:24:59,290 --> 00:25:00,917
obviously go back
to the station, get the truck
609
00:25:00,958 --> 00:25:03,127
back in service,
and while we were doing stuff
610
00:25:03,169 --> 00:25:05,296
with the truck and,
you know, cleaning up,
611
00:25:05,338 --> 00:25:07,757
we'd talk about, "Hey,
look, you remember that guy?
612
00:25:07,798 --> 00:25:10,927
He had, you know, his foot
was up here and this and that."
613
00:25:10,968 --> 00:25:14,347
Um, yeah,
so you definitely talk about it
614
00:25:14,388 --> 00:25:16,390
with all the guys
on the truck in the station,
615
00:25:16,432 --> 00:25:20,978
um, and after some
really nasty ones,
616
00:25:21,020 --> 00:25:24,440
the-- the chief would have
people come in after,
617
00:25:24,482 --> 00:25:26,400
and, you know,
if you wanted to go,
618
00:25:26,442 --> 00:25:28,110
you could go,
if not, no big deal,
619
00:25:28,152 --> 00:25:31,697
and you go
sit around and just--
620
00:25:31,739 --> 00:25:32,782
You talk about it.
621
00:25:33,658 --> 00:25:35,826
You could talk about
what you saw or you don't even
622
00:25:35,868 --> 00:25:38,746
have to talk about it,
just listen to the other people,
623
00:25:38,788 --> 00:25:41,082
and that was-- that was
pretty much it, you know?
624
00:25:41,123 --> 00:25:43,251
It was, like, in and out
in less than an hour.
625
00:25:43,793 --> 00:25:46,587
I didn't think
that really did much
626
00:25:46,629 --> 00:25:49,131
for anybody, but, you know,
627
00:25:49,173 --> 00:25:52,843
I-- I feel
being down in the engine bay
628
00:25:52,885 --> 00:25:54,804
working on the truck,
getting it back in service
629
00:25:54,845 --> 00:25:57,306
or whatever,
talking with all the guys
630
00:25:57,348 --> 00:25:59,934
was-- worked better, I think.
631
00:26:00,559 --> 00:26:03,562
Uh, over the years
I went to several, uh,
632
00:26:03,604 --> 00:26:05,856
critical incident
stress debriefings, um...
633
00:26:07,275 --> 00:26:10,528
but, no, most of it
is handled at the firehouse.
634
00:26:10,569 --> 00:26:13,114
{\an8}In the fire service,
we always are together
635
00:26:13,155 --> 00:26:16,909
{\an8}as companies, or in EMTs,
you're always with a crew.
636
00:26:16,951 --> 00:26:19,662
{\an8}We did debrief
after the call in the station.
637
00:26:20,621 --> 00:26:23,916
{\an8}Cup of coffee in the back,
we call it tailboard therapy,
638
00:26:23,958 --> 00:26:25,459
{\an8}sitting on the back
of the fire engine,
639
00:26:25,501 --> 00:26:27,753
{\an8}back of the ambulance
discussing it.
640
00:26:27,795 --> 00:26:29,797
And you're always--
Older guys, uh,
641
00:26:29,839 --> 00:26:31,966
guys that have been around
looking after the younger guys,
642
00:26:32,008 --> 00:26:33,384
"How do you feel?"
643
00:26:33,426 --> 00:26:34,885
You know,
with, you know, uh,
644
00:26:34,927 --> 00:26:36,846
and debriefing
without even knowing
645
00:26:36,887 --> 00:26:38,431
early on
what we were doing.
646
00:26:38,889 --> 00:26:40,099
Let's talk about it.
647
00:26:40,141 --> 00:26:41,350
{\an8}Let's figure it out, you know?
648
00:26:41,392 --> 00:26:43,102
{\an8}If you need help, ask for it.
649
00:26:44,395 --> 00:26:46,897
{\an8}You know, like,
it has to be offered.
650
00:26:46,939 --> 00:26:48,733
{\an8}You know what I mean,
you don't want to
651
00:26:48,774 --> 00:26:52,069
{\an8}end your career early
because of stuff like this.
652
00:26:52,111 --> 00:26:53,195
{\an8}[interviewer]
653
00:26:58,117 --> 00:27:00,411
Uh, evolved over the-- Well...
654
00:27:02,496 --> 00:27:04,957
you know, like I said,
you can solve world problems
655
00:27:04,999 --> 00:27:06,709
at a firehouse table.
656
00:27:06,751 --> 00:27:07,960
At least that's what
you're always told, right?
657
00:27:08,002 --> 00:27:09,837
But, no,
I think, you know,
658
00:27:09,879 --> 00:27:12,465
being on shift with the same
people all the time,
659
00:27:12,506 --> 00:27:14,091
you become a family.
660
00:27:14,133 --> 00:27:15,217
You know, it's your--
661
00:27:16,344 --> 00:27:17,887
You know,
your family away from--
662
00:27:17,928 --> 00:27:19,513
Your home away from home
is the firehouse.
663
00:27:20,222 --> 00:27:22,892
So, you try to, you know,
664
00:27:22,933 --> 00:27:24,935
personal problems,
firehouse problems, anything,
665
00:27:24,977 --> 00:27:26,270
that's where it gets solved.
666
00:27:26,312 --> 00:27:27,396
Hopefully.
667
00:27:28,147 --> 00:27:30,066
[Riggle] Unfortunately,
without professional
668
00:27:30,107 --> 00:27:32,443
mental health care,
first responders are often
669
00:27:32,485 --> 00:27:35,529
left to self-diagnose
and self-care,
670
00:27:35,571 --> 00:27:37,490
including
the complicated illness
671
00:27:37,531 --> 00:27:39,617
known as post-traumatic
stress disorder.
672
00:27:41,160 --> 00:27:45,164
{\an8}So, PTSD that we think of
when you, you know,
673
00:27:45,206 --> 00:27:46,874
{\an8}it's a-- Lot of people
joke about it, like,
674
00:27:46,916 --> 00:27:48,459
{\an8}"Oh, I have
PTSD from this,
675
00:27:48,501 --> 00:27:50,002
{\an8}was sitting in traffic
for whatever,"
676
00:27:50,044 --> 00:27:51,462
{\an8}we make these jokes.
677
00:27:51,504 --> 00:27:55,132
{\an8}Um, simple PTSD is,
678
00:27:55,174 --> 00:27:56,926
{\an8}you have an isolated incident.
679
00:27:56,967 --> 00:28:00,304
The complex PTSD is
reoccurring trauma response,
680
00:28:00,346 --> 00:28:04,475
so every negative situation
then becomes a trauma
681
00:28:04,517 --> 00:28:07,978
as opposed to, "The gas pump
just doesn't work today."
682
00:28:08,020 --> 00:28:10,022
It becomes,
"It didn't work because of this,
683
00:28:10,064 --> 00:28:11,482
because of that,
da, da, da, da, da,"
684
00:28:11,524 --> 00:28:13,692
and it just
spirals out of control.
685
00:28:13,734 --> 00:28:16,278
And it's very challenging
686
00:28:16,320 --> 00:28:18,239
'cause you have
to retrain your brain.
687
00:28:18,739 --> 00:28:22,243
You have to convince yourself
you're okay.
688
00:28:22,284 --> 00:28:23,702
You have
to convince yourself
689
00:28:23,744 --> 00:28:26,122
that not everything
is a trauma,
690
00:28:26,163 --> 00:28:28,040
and it's a lot of work.
691
00:28:28,582 --> 00:28:31,794
You know, fixing this stuff,
it's-- it's like, you know...
692
00:28:32,753 --> 00:28:35,256
when you get
diagnosed with cancer
693
00:28:35,297 --> 00:28:37,466
and they always
sort of lateral PTSD
694
00:28:37,508 --> 00:28:39,218
with-- with cancer
695
00:28:39,260 --> 00:28:43,013
um, because cancer
doesn't necessarily go away.
696
00:28:43,055 --> 00:28:44,598
It can go into remission,
697
00:28:44,640 --> 00:28:45,933
but you're always
still getting screened,
698
00:28:45,975 --> 00:28:47,518
you're still getting checked.
699
00:28:47,560 --> 00:28:49,770
You know,
why would you expect with PTSD,
700
00:28:49,812 --> 00:28:53,482
with mental health issues
that you're going to go away
701
00:28:53,524 --> 00:28:56,402
for 24 hours and,
"Cool, you don't need chemo,
702
00:28:56,444 --> 00:28:58,112
you don't need radiation,
like, you're good."
703
00:28:58,571 --> 00:29:00,156
It's not how it works.
704
00:29:00,197 --> 00:29:02,616
When you think of PTSD,
you think military.
705
00:29:03,200 --> 00:29:05,703
You know, a guy comes back
from wherever he was
706
00:29:05,744 --> 00:29:07,913
and he has nightmares,
doesn't sleep, anger.
707
00:29:08,497 --> 00:29:11,125
That's all-- always been
on the military side of that.
708
00:29:11,167 --> 00:29:14,211
Now, it's slowly,
very slowly creeping into,
709
00:29:14,253 --> 00:29:15,796
uh, actually
the first responders
710
00:29:15,838 --> 00:29:17,214
having the problems as well.
711
00:29:17,256 --> 00:29:18,382
You know,
I've never actually
712
00:29:18,424 --> 00:29:20,259
been diagnosed with PTSD,
713
00:29:20,301 --> 00:29:22,678
but I've been around this
long enough to know that,
714
00:29:22,720 --> 00:29:26,265
yes, I have PTSD
from-- from it.
715
00:29:26,307 --> 00:29:27,725
You know,
there's a lot of, uh...
716
00:29:28,767 --> 00:29:31,687
signs and symptoms
of PTS and PTSD
717
00:29:31,729 --> 00:29:34,773
that people present
over the years,
718
00:29:34,815 --> 00:29:37,318
and reading up on it
and doing the research on it
719
00:29:37,359 --> 00:29:38,486
and stuff like that,
you just...
720
00:29:40,529 --> 00:29:42,573
I mean,
I-- I don't know if I have it.
721
00:29:42,615 --> 00:29:44,742
I'm kind of afraid to be
formally diagnosed with it,
722
00:29:44,783 --> 00:29:45,868
to be honest with you, but...
723
00:29:46,869 --> 00:29:49,413
{\an8}I do have a disability
through the military
724
00:29:49,455 --> 00:29:51,957
{\an8}for PTSD, uh, relating to...
725
00:29:53,042 --> 00:29:54,835
{\an8}things that
have been gone through.
726
00:29:54,877 --> 00:29:56,629
{\an8}It's more like a self-help.
727
00:29:56,670 --> 00:29:59,507
The VA is in a difficult
situation because they say,
728
00:29:59,548 --> 00:30:02,593
"All right, here's your problem,
here's your check."
729
00:30:02,635 --> 00:30:05,721
And I was actually
waiting for some therapy,
730
00:30:05,763 --> 00:30:07,848
but now that I realize
that a lot of times
731
00:30:07,890 --> 00:30:09,058
you have to help yourself.
732
00:30:09,099 --> 00:30:11,393
For me, combat
733
00:30:11,435 --> 00:30:13,646
was very difficult.
734
00:30:13,687 --> 00:30:15,272
Trying times,
I didn't have my wife,
735
00:30:15,314 --> 00:30:17,024
I didn't have
the support group,
736
00:30:17,066 --> 00:30:19,568
and it kind of brings back
why you do these things.
737
00:30:19,610 --> 00:30:21,487
It-- it's not
738
00:30:21,529 --> 00:30:24,323
for God and country
739
00:30:24,365 --> 00:30:26,033
and foreign policy
740
00:30:26,075 --> 00:30:28,202
and whoever is riding
the ship at that time.
741
00:30:28,244 --> 00:30:30,412
Uh, it's for the people
you work with.
742
00:30:30,454 --> 00:30:32,331
Your left and right,
whoever's there.
743
00:30:32,373 --> 00:30:33,916
Even in the medical field,
744
00:30:33,958 --> 00:30:36,210
I think my lowest moment
745
00:30:36,252 --> 00:30:38,128
during COVID early on
746
00:30:38,170 --> 00:30:40,214
is when we were
driving in to work,
747
00:30:40,256 --> 00:30:41,882
and it was like
the disaster movie.
748
00:30:41,924 --> 00:30:43,634
Everybody was at home
collecting a check,
749
00:30:43,676 --> 00:30:46,929
unemployment, uh,
Amazon deliveries coming in.
750
00:30:46,971 --> 00:30:48,931
I was driving
over 100 miles an hour
751
00:30:48,973 --> 00:30:50,724
going to work and hoping,
752
00:30:50,766 --> 00:30:52,768
praying, uh,
that a state trooper
753
00:30:52,810 --> 00:30:54,770
would pull me over, arrest me,
and throw me into jail
754
00:30:54,812 --> 00:30:56,063
so I didn't have to go to work.
755
00:30:56,522 --> 00:30:58,816
And the reason
756
00:30:58,857 --> 00:31:01,026
I was going to work
is because I knew
757
00:31:01,068 --> 00:31:03,779
my guys and girls that,
at the firehouse,
758
00:31:03,821 --> 00:31:05,281
were going to work as well,
759
00:31:05,322 --> 00:31:07,116
and that's why
we showed up every day.
760
00:31:07,157 --> 00:31:09,577
I tried to avoid
that diagnosis
761
00:31:09,618 --> 00:31:11,912
for a very, very long time
'cause I grew up in a time
762
00:31:11,954 --> 00:31:14,206
where you don't talk
about these things.
763
00:31:14,248 --> 00:31:17,418
Um, I had to have a physical,
764
00:31:17,459 --> 00:31:20,254
and my blood pressure
was through the roof.
765
00:31:20,296 --> 00:31:22,089
Like, the nurse was like...
766
00:31:23,215 --> 00:31:24,842
"You're having a heart attack,"
and I was like,
767
00:31:24,883 --> 00:31:27,469
"I'm just having--
I just need a minute,
768
00:31:27,511 --> 00:31:29,138
I'm having a panic attack.
769
00:31:29,179 --> 00:31:30,556
I don't do well
in doctors' offices anymore."
770
00:31:31,348 --> 00:31:34,435
And, um, they kind of just
kept doing what they were doing
771
00:31:34,476 --> 00:31:36,645
to the point
where I had to scream, like,
772
00:31:36,687 --> 00:31:38,355
"Get the fuck away from me.
773
00:31:38,397 --> 00:31:39,940
Get out,
I just need two minutes.
774
00:31:39,982 --> 00:31:41,942
Give me a--
give me a fucking break."
775
00:31:41,984 --> 00:31:43,944
And they took off
out of the room
776
00:31:43,986 --> 00:31:45,946
and they gave me
a few minutes,
777
00:31:45,988 --> 00:31:48,157
and my doctor came in
and she's like,
778
00:31:48,198 --> 00:31:50,659
"I have another person here
that wants to see you, uh,
779
00:31:50,701 --> 00:31:52,119
talk to you for a minute,
do you mind?"
780
00:31:52,161 --> 00:31:53,746
I said, "No problem."
781
00:31:53,787 --> 00:31:55,372
A woman came
around the corner and said,
782
00:31:55,414 --> 00:31:57,916
"I'm doctor so and so,
you have PTSD.
783
00:31:57,958 --> 00:31:59,627
Do you want to deal with it?"
784
00:31:59,668 --> 00:32:01,337
And my first response was,
"Well, it depends.
785
00:32:01,378 --> 00:32:02,713
Is that
written down anywhere?"
786
00:32:03,631 --> 00:32:05,382
She's like,
"Oh, yeah, there's gonna be
787
00:32:05,424 --> 00:32:07,426
a lot of documentation
about what just happened."
788
00:32:07,468 --> 00:32:09,595
I was officially diagnosed
when I was 22
789
00:32:09,637 --> 00:32:12,264
when I got
out of the Marines, um,
790
00:32:12,306 --> 00:32:15,017
about two months after I got
home from my third deployment,
791
00:32:15,059 --> 00:32:16,935
and I-- I thought
it was bullshit.
792
00:32:16,977 --> 00:32:19,521
You know,
I-- I didn't agree with it,
793
00:32:19,563 --> 00:32:22,650
but I understood
that they basically just
794
00:32:22,691 --> 00:32:25,903
gave me and all my friends
that diagnosis 'cause--
795
00:32:25,944 --> 00:32:27,821
More of a liability thing,
I thought, you know?
796
00:32:28,364 --> 00:32:32,034
I knew that
my friends and I were different.
797
00:32:32,076 --> 00:32:33,827
It was very hard fitting in
798
00:32:33,869 --> 00:32:35,120
after getting out
and coming home
799
00:32:35,162 --> 00:32:37,623
from those types
of experiences,
800
00:32:37,665 --> 00:32:40,501
but I had no idea
it was a problem.
801
00:32:40,542 --> 00:32:43,045
I had no idea
that there were symptoms.
802
00:32:43,087 --> 00:32:45,881
You know, um,
from my perspective,
803
00:32:45,923 --> 00:32:47,966
I was normal
and I was justified
804
00:32:48,008 --> 00:32:50,386
in the way I viewed the world
and how I acted,
805
00:32:50,427 --> 00:32:52,096
and, you know,
only looking back now
806
00:32:52,137 --> 00:32:55,849
do I realize
how messed up I was, so...
807
00:32:55,891 --> 00:32:59,061
And we had to go see
a shrink who was a Navy doc
808
00:32:59,103 --> 00:33:03,273
and, um, we--
I was told, we were all told,
809
00:33:03,315 --> 00:33:06,193
"Don't be honest,
don't tell them the truth
810
00:33:06,235 --> 00:33:08,153
because if you do,
you're not going home,"
811
00:33:09,321 --> 00:33:11,240
because they knew
we were fucked up.
812
00:33:11,281 --> 00:33:14,034
They knew that our answers
would keep us there,
813
00:33:14,076 --> 00:33:16,620
that we probably wouldn't
get out, that we'd be sent
814
00:33:16,662 --> 00:33:18,247
to a hospital or whatever.
815
00:33:18,288 --> 00:33:19,832
I know
plenty of people who were
816
00:33:19,873 --> 00:33:21,458
restricted to the barracks
817
00:33:21,500 --> 00:33:23,961
who were never the same,
who weren't allowed
818
00:33:24,002 --> 00:33:26,422
to go on a third deployment
because they told the truth,
819
00:33:26,463 --> 00:33:28,465
'cause they were honest
about how they felt
820
00:33:28,507 --> 00:33:30,175
about the drinking every day.
821
00:33:30,634 --> 00:33:32,094
Everyone that was there
was an alcoholic.
822
00:33:32,136 --> 00:33:33,345
Everyone.
823
00:33:33,387 --> 00:33:35,013
There's no coping mechanisms.
824
00:33:35,055 --> 00:33:36,765
There's no therapy,
there's no...
825
00:33:38,058 --> 00:33:39,852
compassion,
there's no processing.
826
00:33:39,893 --> 00:33:42,229
It's just you do it
and if you don't do it,
827
00:33:42,271 --> 00:33:44,231
you're weak, and nobody
wants to be weak,
828
00:33:44,273 --> 00:33:45,649
so you suck it up
and you do it.
829
00:33:46,859 --> 00:33:49,069
[Riggle] Coping is only
made more difficult
830
00:33:49,111 --> 00:33:52,239
for first responders
in that their day-to-day lives
831
00:33:52,281 --> 00:33:54,992
are consistently met
with the triggers
832
00:33:55,033 --> 00:33:56,827
they need to avoid.
833
00:33:56,869 --> 00:33:59,037
[Jen] My husband was
a police officer for 15 years.
834
00:33:59,079 --> 00:34:01,790
He would communicate
to me about triggers
835
00:34:01,832 --> 00:34:04,793
that he was experiencing, to a--
you know, due to his PTSD.
836
00:34:05,294 --> 00:34:09,339
{\an8}Um, for example, um,
837
00:34:09,381 --> 00:34:12,926
{\an8}he didn't have a mouth guard
at one infant call,
838
00:34:12,968 --> 00:34:15,596
{\an8}and so had to perform CPR
on an infant
839
00:34:15,637 --> 00:34:19,141
{\an8}who had, um,
formula on his mouth
840
00:34:19,183 --> 00:34:23,187
{\an8}and the formula, um,
reminded him of bananas
841
00:34:23,228 --> 00:34:26,273
{\an8}for some reason, so as a family,
we didn't have bananas
842
00:34:26,315 --> 00:34:28,233
{\an8}in our house for years.
843
00:34:28,275 --> 00:34:31,570
And 'cause I just-- I was
doing my best to protect Kevin
844
00:34:31,612 --> 00:34:35,365
and prevent him from--
from having those flashbacks.
845
00:34:35,407 --> 00:34:38,869
It was a housefire in which,
uh, two children got killed.
846
00:34:39,578 --> 00:34:41,330
There were
three children in the house.
847
00:34:41,371 --> 00:34:44,833
Uh, I was the lucky or unlucky,
however you want it,
848
00:34:44,875 --> 00:34:47,419
I found all three kids
and I pulled the only one
849
00:34:47,461 --> 00:34:49,296
that survived out myself.
850
00:34:49,338 --> 00:34:53,217
Probably over the last
four or five years, you know,
851
00:34:53,258 --> 00:34:55,219
a week or so before
and a week or so after
852
00:34:55,260 --> 00:34:58,180
I would get really depressed
because the brain was like,
853
00:34:58,222 --> 00:35:00,182
"Hey, yeah,
854
00:35:00,224 --> 00:35:03,101
20-odd years ago,
this is what you were doing,
855
00:35:03,143 --> 00:35:04,478
and this is what you did."
856
00:35:04,520 --> 00:35:06,647
And that I can recall
857
00:35:06,688 --> 00:35:09,149
in very,
very graphic detail
858
00:35:10,067 --> 00:35:11,693
everything that happened
859
00:35:11,735 --> 00:35:13,237
from the time
I got off the fire engine
860
00:35:13,278 --> 00:35:14,822
till the time
the call was done.
861
00:35:15,447 --> 00:35:17,533
You know, and then--
And that's one I've actually
862
00:35:17,574 --> 00:35:21,286
had flashbacks on that one
863
00:35:21,328 --> 00:35:24,915
in the-- in the past,
and that's terrifying.
864
00:35:24,957 --> 00:35:27,292
When I went back,
I had just gotten
865
00:35:27,334 --> 00:35:29,044
in a bad accident
where my wife was killed,
866
00:35:29,086 --> 00:35:30,838
and right off the bat,
I'm doing, like,
867
00:35:30,879 --> 00:35:34,007
more accidents per shift
than I had ever done in my life.
868
00:35:34,550 --> 00:35:37,052
And we get to this accident
and there was a fatality
869
00:35:37,094 --> 00:35:39,054
in the car and the wife--
870
00:35:39,096 --> 00:35:40,889
It ended up being
a husband and wife,
871
00:35:40,931 --> 00:35:43,475
uh, the wife was, uh,
was the one that was alive.
872
00:35:44,518 --> 00:35:47,145
And so we get directed to go
past it to the person that,
873
00:35:47,187 --> 00:35:48,438
come to find
what caused the accident,
874
00:35:48,480 --> 00:35:49,648
which was a drunk driver.
875
00:35:50,190 --> 00:35:51,775
And we pull up
and the cops got the guy
876
00:35:51,817 --> 00:35:53,569
and I didn't realize
it was a drunk thing
877
00:35:53,610 --> 00:35:55,153
until I opened the door
and I could smell the booze.
878
00:35:56,530 --> 00:35:57,948
And he looked
right at me and he goes,
879
00:35:57,990 --> 00:35:59,199
"I hope they're all right."
880
00:35:59,783 --> 00:36:01,869
And I went, "I knew
the person what-- who was dead,"
881
00:36:01,910 --> 00:36:06,248
and I had to be tackled
to the ground by four cops
882
00:36:06,290 --> 00:36:08,458
'cause I just lost it.
883
00:36:10,711 --> 00:36:12,462
[Brian Harkins] Uh, I just had
back-to-back calls
884
00:36:12,504 --> 00:36:13,755
that sent me over the edge.
885
00:36:14,756 --> 00:36:16,466
{\an8}The last one involved
a two-year-old,
886
00:36:16,508 --> 00:36:19,428
{\an8}I will spare the details,
but it, uh, I broke.
887
00:36:20,679 --> 00:36:21,763
Sorry.
888
00:36:22,681 --> 00:36:23,765
[sighs]
889
00:36:27,269 --> 00:36:28,353
Sorry.
890
00:36:34,651 --> 00:36:36,862
[somber piano melody plays]
891
00:36:38,113 --> 00:36:39,197
I just need a second.
892
00:37:03,764 --> 00:37:05,182
{\an8}It's been a while
since I talked about it.
893
00:37:05,223 --> 00:37:06,308
{\an8}[interviewer]
894
00:37:10,562 --> 00:37:12,272
{\an8}No, I think it's important
for people to know.
895
00:37:13,231 --> 00:37:14,566
Um...
896
00:37:16,568 --> 00:37:18,195
I quit my job
over the phone.
897
00:37:18,779 --> 00:37:20,364
The chief
came out and, um...
898
00:37:21,531 --> 00:37:23,659
actually got me into a program,
at the leader program
899
00:37:23,700 --> 00:37:26,203
at McLean's, and since then
900
00:37:26,244 --> 00:37:28,288
I've been on the other side
of-- of giving back the help
901
00:37:28,330 --> 00:37:29,790
so people
don't wind up like I did.
902
00:37:31,583 --> 00:37:32,668
Sorry.
903
00:37:37,089 --> 00:37:38,757
Sorry, it's been a while
since I talked about that.
904
00:37:50,060 --> 00:37:51,478
[Riggle] Without
the knowledge of
905
00:37:51,520 --> 00:37:53,230
and access
to proper care,
906
00:37:53,271 --> 00:37:56,149
first responders
often turn to quick fixes,
907
00:37:56,191 --> 00:37:58,443
vices that
only make matters worse.
908
00:37:59,027 --> 00:38:00,487
[sighs]
909
00:38:00,529 --> 00:38:01,780
Um...
910
00:38:02,823 --> 00:38:05,534
I tried to forget it
as much as I could,
911
00:38:05,575 --> 00:38:07,536
and I used to drink, I--
912
00:38:07,577 --> 00:38:09,287
I was a pretty good drinker,
913
00:38:09,329 --> 00:38:11,623
so I think
that's how I dealt with it.
914
00:38:12,332 --> 00:38:14,292
Um, and, you know,
915
00:38:14,334 --> 00:38:17,170
obviously talking with the guys
and stuff helped a little bit,
916
00:38:17,212 --> 00:38:20,173
but I think I just put it
in the back of the brain
917
00:38:20,215 --> 00:38:22,884
and keep moving on
and deal with the next thing.
918
00:38:23,552 --> 00:38:26,138
I think you try,
919
00:38:26,179 --> 00:38:27,556
you know,
you try to forget about it,
920
00:38:27,597 --> 00:38:29,933
but it--
I don't-- you never do.
921
00:38:29,975 --> 00:38:31,977
You never really do, um...
922
00:38:33,228 --> 00:38:36,023
and eventually it--
it wears on you,
923
00:38:36,064 --> 00:38:38,692
and it gets to the point
where you--
924
00:38:38,734 --> 00:38:40,360
you do something, you know?
925
00:38:40,402 --> 00:38:42,654
Like-- like, as I started
drinking, um...
926
00:38:43,655 --> 00:38:45,866
and that's how I dealt with it.
927
00:38:45,907 --> 00:38:47,909
I don't-- I don't consider
myself an addict,
928
00:38:47,951 --> 00:38:49,578
I don't have
an addictive personality,
929
00:38:49,619 --> 00:38:52,622
but I abused the shit
out of pills and booze.
930
00:38:52,664 --> 00:38:54,666
I would show up to work drunk.
I would drink on the job.
931
00:38:55,876 --> 00:38:57,586
I would go out to the bar
932
00:38:57,627 --> 00:38:59,880
right down the street
from the ambulance bay,
933
00:38:59,921 --> 00:39:01,339
get hammered,
934
00:39:01,381 --> 00:39:02,340
drink until
3:00 in the morning,
935
00:39:02,382 --> 00:39:03,467
be back on shift at 7:00.
936
00:39:04,509 --> 00:39:05,719
Noon time
I'd be hitting something
937
00:39:05,761 --> 00:39:07,262
to keep you through the day.
938
00:39:07,304 --> 00:39:10,015
Pop some pills,
not feeling anything.
939
00:39:10,057 --> 00:39:11,933
I drank a lot,
I drank every day.
940
00:39:11,975 --> 00:39:13,393
Um, I was always...
941
00:39:14,644 --> 00:39:16,563
very hesitant about alcohol
942
00:39:16,605 --> 00:39:18,231
because my father
is an alcoholic,
943
00:39:18,273 --> 00:39:21,401
and, uh,
I saw how it destroyed his life.
944
00:39:22,736 --> 00:39:24,279
And I knew--
945
00:39:24,321 --> 00:39:25,739
that was one thing
that I knew for sure
946
00:39:25,781 --> 00:39:27,491
at a young age that...
947
00:39:29,034 --> 00:39:30,702
I don't want to say
I was an alcoholic,
948
00:39:30,744 --> 00:39:33,371
but I could have been one
so easily.
949
00:39:33,413 --> 00:39:35,749
You know, I watched
so many of my other friends
950
00:39:35,791 --> 00:39:36,833
become alcoholics.
951
00:39:37,793 --> 00:39:39,252
So, I was always very careful,
952
00:39:39,294 --> 00:39:41,171
but I used it
as much as I could bef--
953
00:39:41,213 --> 00:39:42,923
without crossing that line,
you know?
954
00:39:42,964 --> 00:39:44,716
'Cause I couldn't let myself
do it.
955
00:39:44,758 --> 00:39:47,803
Too much pride, I don't know,
like, I did drugs,
956
00:39:47,844 --> 00:39:50,013
I did a lot of drugs, um...
957
00:39:51,515 --> 00:39:54,684
just to feel something
other than anger.
958
00:39:55,560 --> 00:39:57,229
Just to, like,
turn my thoughts off
959
00:39:57,270 --> 00:39:58,814
for a minute, you know?
960
00:39:58,855 --> 00:40:00,482
{\an8}[interviewer]
961
00:40:00,524 --> 00:40:01,733
{\an8}- No, absolutely not.
- [interviewer] Really?
962
00:40:01,775 --> 00:40:03,276
{\an8}Not at all? No?
963
00:40:03,318 --> 00:40:04,945
Well, I mean,
at the moment it did.
964
00:40:04,986 --> 00:40:06,780
At the moment, you know,
I think it was just--
965
00:40:06,822 --> 00:40:07,906
it just, yeah, it's...
966
00:40:09,741 --> 00:40:11,326
Yeah, just a little bit
at a time
967
00:40:11,368 --> 00:40:12,744
to help you get through
or whatever.
968
00:40:14,955 --> 00:40:16,456
Somehow I knew
969
00:40:16,498 --> 00:40:18,542
that I didn't want to be
an alcoholic.
970
00:40:18,583 --> 00:40:20,669
I didn't want to be
a drug addict.
971
00:40:21,461 --> 00:40:25,132
Uh, so I switched
booze and alcohol for women...
972
00:40:27,175 --> 00:40:28,260
and I got around.
973
00:40:28,969 --> 00:40:30,220
And it was the uniform...
974
00:40:31,221 --> 00:40:33,557
and it was the fact that
I was a-- I was a widower.
975
00:40:33,598 --> 00:40:35,976
And so I just swapped
one coping me--
976
00:40:36,017 --> 00:40:38,061
one bad coping mechanism
for another.
977
00:40:38,854 --> 00:40:41,231
And this lasted for a few years.
978
00:40:43,358 --> 00:40:44,693
{\an8}[interviewer]
979
00:40:44,734 --> 00:40:46,444
{\an8}We got, um,
980
00:40:46,486 --> 00:40:49,364
{\an8}sort of inadvertently set up
by our dispatcher.
981
00:40:49,406 --> 00:40:51,116
He texts me back and goes,
"They sent me your number,"
982
00:40:51,158 --> 00:40:52,284
and I was like, "What?"
983
00:40:52,784 --> 00:40:54,244
I was like, "No." [chuckles]
984
00:40:54,703 --> 00:40:57,372
I was hurting, um,
985
00:40:57,414 --> 00:40:59,332
I was lonely, I was single...
986
00:41:00,709 --> 00:41:02,169
and, uh,
so I texted her one day
987
00:41:02,210 --> 00:41:04,045
I'm like, "Hey, it's Keith.
988
00:41:04,087 --> 00:41:05,672
I heard you think I'm cute."
989
00:41:05,714 --> 00:41:06,923
And it just sort of
took off from there.
990
00:41:06,965 --> 00:41:10,010
{\an8}[interviewer]
991
00:41:15,932 --> 00:41:19,644
{\an8}I think that
I don't see people necessarily
992
00:41:19,686 --> 00:41:22,397
{\an8}for what's on the outside,
but who they are.
993
00:41:22,439 --> 00:41:25,275
Um, and that our baggage,
994
00:41:25,317 --> 00:41:28,278
our past, our history is--
995
00:41:28,320 --> 00:41:30,697
it really just changes
who we are,
996
00:41:30,739 --> 00:41:32,407
it doesn't define us.
997
00:41:32,449 --> 00:41:33,992
Everybody has good days
and bad days,
998
00:41:34,034 --> 00:41:35,744
whether you deal
with mental health or not,
999
00:41:35,785 --> 00:41:37,871
but things were--
things were good.
1000
00:41:37,913 --> 00:41:41,249
Um, I had finished
my nursing education, um,
1001
00:41:41,291 --> 00:41:44,544
so we were doing
a lot better financially.
1002
00:41:44,586 --> 00:41:46,713
Um, we had bought a house,
1003
00:41:46,755 --> 00:41:49,591
you know, sort of living
the-- the American dream.
1004
00:41:49,633 --> 00:41:53,094
Um, and we made a decision
1005
00:41:53,136 --> 00:41:55,889
to, um, try to have a baby.
1006
00:41:55,931 --> 00:41:58,683
Pretty uneventful until the end
1007
00:41:58,725 --> 00:42:01,728
where we had
some medical complications
1008
00:42:01,770 --> 00:42:04,606
that resulted in, um,
1009
00:42:04,648 --> 00:42:07,317
me delivering our daughter
early.
1010
00:42:07,359 --> 00:42:10,195
During the period of time
that I was in labor,
1011
00:42:10,237 --> 00:42:13,031
there was times they were asking
if we wanted last rites,
1012
00:42:13,073 --> 00:42:14,449
if we wanted the chaplain.
1013
00:42:14,491 --> 00:42:16,785
They just
can't stop the bleeding,
1014
00:42:16,826 --> 00:42:18,411
and she's hemorrhaging.
1015
00:42:18,453 --> 00:42:21,122
We didn't know
if the baby would make it.
1016
00:42:21,164 --> 00:42:23,333
We didn't know
if I was gonna make it.
1017
00:42:23,375 --> 00:42:26,586
The idea of losing
another spouse
1018
00:42:26,628 --> 00:42:28,296
sort of started the spiral.
1019
00:42:28,338 --> 00:42:30,257
That was a really,
really tough thing,
1020
00:42:30,298 --> 00:42:31,967
and I didn't realize
it was happening
1021
00:42:32,008 --> 00:42:33,885
until we all came back home
and then we--
1022
00:42:33,927 --> 00:42:34,970
we knew something was up.
1023
00:42:36,137 --> 00:42:38,682
Something
was different with Keith.
1024
00:42:38,723 --> 00:42:40,642
[Riggle] The results
of the trauma
1025
00:42:40,684 --> 00:42:43,603
first responders face
can be catastrophic.
1026
00:42:43,645 --> 00:42:45,897
And not just with alcoholism
and divorce.
1027
00:42:45,939 --> 00:42:47,649
In America, first responders
1028
00:42:47,691 --> 00:42:50,568
make up less than 2%
of the population,
1029
00:42:50,610 --> 00:42:54,197
but account for nearly 20%
of the suicides.
1030
00:42:57,200 --> 00:43:00,120
I just started becoming
more aware
1031
00:43:00,161 --> 00:43:03,039
of what the problem was
and how big it was
1032
00:43:03,081 --> 00:43:05,500
and how all encompassing it was.
1033
00:43:05,542 --> 00:43:09,170
And I-- I didn't know...
1034
00:43:11,006 --> 00:43:13,466
I didn't know if I could heal.
1035
00:43:13,508 --> 00:43:16,386
I-- I just felt like
I was too far gone,
1036
00:43:16,428 --> 00:43:19,014
that the problems that I were--
1037
00:43:19,055 --> 00:43:20,807
that I was becoming aware
1038
00:43:20,849 --> 00:43:23,935
were problems
was every bit of me.
1039
00:43:23,977 --> 00:43:25,520
It-- it wasn't like, uh,
1040
00:43:25,562 --> 00:43:27,230
"Oh, I just need to start
doing this,"
1041
00:43:27,272 --> 00:43:30,108
or "Maybe if I do that better,
I'll be okay."
1042
00:43:30,150 --> 00:43:32,777
It was, uh,
"I need to not be me anymore."
1043
00:43:32,819 --> 00:43:34,195
And how do you do that,
you know?
1044
00:43:35,572 --> 00:43:37,198
I gave up on therapy.
1045
00:43:37,240 --> 00:43:38,992
I stopped going
because I felt like
1046
00:43:39,034 --> 00:43:40,118
it wasn't helping anymore.
1047
00:43:40,160 --> 00:43:41,244
And...
1048
00:43:42,746 --> 00:43:44,205
life was still stressful,
1049
00:43:44,247 --> 00:43:46,124
things weren't getting
any better,
1050
00:43:46,166 --> 00:43:47,417
and I didn't know what to do.
1051
00:43:47,459 --> 00:43:49,210
And so I--
1052
00:43:49,252 --> 00:43:51,588
I started thinking about
killing myself
1053
00:43:51,629 --> 00:43:54,049
off and on all the time.
1054
00:43:54,090 --> 00:43:57,052
You know,
just constantly up and down,
1055
00:43:57,093 --> 00:43:59,304
never enough to actually do it,
1056
00:43:59,346 --> 00:44:02,057
no attempts,
but just thinking about it.
1057
00:44:02,807 --> 00:44:04,225
I'd be driving
in my truck just...
1058
00:44:05,352 --> 00:44:07,687
"Why don't I just drive right
into this bridge abutment?"
1059
00:44:07,729 --> 00:44:09,230
Just, what am I doing?
1060
00:44:09,272 --> 00:44:11,024
Like, what is the point
of any of this?
1061
00:44:11,816 --> 00:44:13,318
Why do I keep trying?
1062
00:44:13,818 --> 00:44:16,029
Like, I just felt like
I had hurt everyone
1063
00:44:16,071 --> 00:44:17,781
that I cared about.
1064
00:44:17,822 --> 00:44:19,699
I was dragging everyone down
with me, and I...
1065
00:44:21,409 --> 00:44:23,161
I just didn't want
to do it anymore.
1066
00:44:23,203 --> 00:44:24,913
I didn't know what
I was fighting for, you know?
1067
00:44:24,954 --> 00:44:26,581
I had no direction and...
1068
00:44:28,500 --> 00:44:30,710
it's really my--
my wife and my brother.
1069
00:44:30,752 --> 00:44:32,003
I just couldn't...
1070
00:44:43,473 --> 00:44:44,891
I just
couldn't leave them behind.
1071
00:44:49,229 --> 00:44:52,065
'Cause I felt like
I'd be a failure,
1072
00:44:52,107 --> 00:44:54,150
and I just couldn't--
I couldn't do it.
1073
00:44:54,651 --> 00:44:56,236
I wanted to.
I just couldn't,
1074
00:44:56,277 --> 00:44:59,823
so I just stuck around,
just treading water,
1075
00:44:59,864 --> 00:45:02,117
just trying to figure out
what the fuck to do next, so...
1076
00:45:04,369 --> 00:45:06,704
My depression almost killed me
a couple of times.
1077
00:45:06,746 --> 00:45:08,331
I tried to take myself--
1078
00:45:08,373 --> 00:45:10,458
tried to take my own life
four times, so--
1079
00:45:10,500 --> 00:45:12,585
and as I got older, I learned
how to take care of that
1080
00:45:12,627 --> 00:45:14,337
and learned
how to manage it better.
1081
00:45:14,379 --> 00:45:17,298
It became apparent
I couldn't take anymore.
1082
00:45:18,758 --> 00:45:20,969
Where I was just,
like, turned so inward,
1083
00:45:21,010 --> 00:45:22,429
and I was so depressed,
1084
00:45:22,470 --> 00:45:23,972
and I just didn't want to exist
anymore.
1085
00:45:24,013 --> 00:45:25,432
At this point,
my-- my two older kids
1086
00:45:25,473 --> 00:45:26,933
were completely
out of the picture.
1087
00:45:26,975 --> 00:45:28,351
They wanted nothing
to do with me.
1088
00:45:28,393 --> 00:45:29,894
I didn't want to die,
I didn't want to exist.
1089
00:45:31,438 --> 00:45:33,690
I went down in, uh,
I went down in my basement
1090
00:45:33,731 --> 00:45:35,108
and, uh, got
in my gun cabinet...
1091
00:45:36,609 --> 00:45:37,694
and I, uh...
1092
00:45:41,030 --> 00:45:42,115
I, uh...
1093
00:45:46,035 --> 00:45:49,372
I, uh,
I grabbed my nine mil handgun.
1094
00:45:50,957 --> 00:45:52,417
That was my carry gun.
1095
00:45:52,459 --> 00:45:53,793
I'd gone to the range
and probably put
1096
00:45:53,835 --> 00:45:55,253
700 or 800 rounds
downrange
1097
00:45:55,295 --> 00:45:56,379
and never had a problem.
1098
00:45:56,963 --> 00:45:59,340
Never jammed, never double fed,
1099
00:45:59,382 --> 00:46:01,217
never had an issue with the mag,
nothing never happened.
1100
00:46:01,259 --> 00:46:04,429
It was always just clean,
spot on, dead on accurate.
1101
00:46:05,388 --> 00:46:07,474
And I was pissed,
and I-- and I ran downstairs,
1102
00:46:07,515 --> 00:46:10,310
and I grabbed it,
and I slammed the mag in,
1103
00:46:10,351 --> 00:46:12,103
and I rack it,
1104
00:46:12,145 --> 00:46:13,396
and I remember screaming,
1105
00:46:13,438 --> 00:46:15,231
and I pressed it
against my head,
1106
00:46:15,273 --> 00:46:17,442
and I just pulled the trigger,
and it clicked
1107
00:46:17,484 --> 00:46:18,568
and for, like...
1108
00:46:21,196 --> 00:46:22,739
it seemed like minutes,
1109
00:46:22,780 --> 00:46:24,324
but it was probably
a split second,
1110
00:46:24,365 --> 00:46:25,617
it was nothing,
it was-- I heard nothing,
1111
00:46:25,658 --> 00:46:26,743
I felt nothing...
1112
00:46:28,036 --> 00:46:29,120
I saw nothing.
1113
00:46:30,288 --> 00:46:31,831
And I was like--
1114
00:46:31,873 --> 00:46:33,082
I had that, like, feeling,
"Oh, it worked.
1115
00:46:33,124 --> 00:46:35,126
It's over. The pain is over."
1116
00:46:37,462 --> 00:46:38,796
And I realized
my eyes were closed...
1117
00:46:40,965 --> 00:46:42,592
and I opened them
and I was, "What the--
1118
00:46:42,634 --> 00:46:43,718
the fuck happened?"
1119
00:46:45,345 --> 00:46:47,639
[sighs] So, I--
I dropped the gun
1120
00:46:47,680 --> 00:46:49,724
under a chair in front of me,
and I started crying.
1121
00:46:51,851 --> 00:46:52,936
And I realize...
1122
00:46:54,020 --> 00:46:55,438
that the gun never went off.
1123
00:46:57,232 --> 00:47:01,152
And so I open up the slide
on the gun...
1124
00:47:02,487 --> 00:47:04,447
and the gun
had double-fed a bullet.
1125
00:47:05,657 --> 00:47:08,368
It jammed the firing tube.
1126
00:47:12,038 --> 00:47:13,122
And I was like...
1127
00:47:16,042 --> 00:47:18,086
I like to say I had this moment
of realization
1128
00:47:18,127 --> 00:47:19,587
that it wasn't meant to be,
1129
00:47:19,629 --> 00:47:20,797
that I'm supposed to be here,
but I didn't.
1130
00:47:20,838 --> 00:47:21,923
I was pissed.
1131
00:47:22,924 --> 00:47:26,386
So, never thought he would try.
1132
00:47:27,512 --> 00:47:30,223
After the fact,
not surprised it happened.
1133
00:47:30,807 --> 00:47:33,601
Um, we had always sort of,
1134
00:47:33,643 --> 00:47:35,436
in my mind, had an agreement
1135
00:47:35,478 --> 00:47:37,605
that it wouldn't come to that,
1136
00:47:37,647 --> 00:47:41,276
um, but things
had just spiraled to this point
1137
00:47:41,317 --> 00:47:44,696
where, in his mind,
there wasn't another option.
1138
00:47:44,737 --> 00:47:47,240
Um, that his existence
1139
00:47:47,282 --> 00:47:49,284
was causing more damage
than benefit.
1140
00:47:50,994 --> 00:47:53,496
So, I was not prepared
1141
00:47:53,538 --> 00:47:57,584
for when he told me
what had happened, um...
1142
00:47:58,960 --> 00:48:00,753
but, again,
1143
00:48:00,795 --> 00:48:03,339
not surprised in hindsight
1144
00:48:03,381 --> 00:48:05,216
that we were leading up to it.
1145
00:48:05,258 --> 00:48:06,593
[interviewer]
How did he tell you?
1146
00:48:06,634 --> 00:48:08,720
He called me. Yeah.
1147
00:48:08,761 --> 00:48:09,887
[interviewer]
Do you remember what he said?
1148
00:48:11,097 --> 00:48:13,099
It was basically, you know,
1149
00:48:13,141 --> 00:48:15,518
"I just tried to kill myself,
and it didn't work."
1150
00:48:16,811 --> 00:48:19,522
And it just sort of just--
was like getting backhanded.
1151
00:48:20,940 --> 00:48:23,776
You know,
that we had gone so far
1152
00:48:23,818 --> 00:48:26,446
and worked so hard
to get where we are,
1153
00:48:26,487 --> 00:48:28,906
and it, to me,
felt like it was all gone.
1154
00:48:31,367 --> 00:48:33,077
So, then we...
1155
00:48:34,621 --> 00:48:38,041
sort of were like,
"Well, what-- what is next?"
1156
00:48:38,082 --> 00:48:39,626
You know, "What do we do?
1157
00:48:39,667 --> 00:48:43,004
Do we, you know, go to the ER?
1158
00:48:43,046 --> 00:48:44,964
Do we go and getting--"
1159
00:48:45,006 --> 00:48:48,301
Our mental health system
is so broken.
1160
00:48:48,926 --> 00:48:52,847
Um, there are--
I mean, I've had patients
1161
00:48:52,889 --> 00:48:56,267
that have walked out of our ERs
and killed themselves
1162
00:48:56,309 --> 00:48:58,478
within 20 minutes of discharge.
1163
00:48:58,519 --> 00:49:00,355
It's a very broken system,
1164
00:49:00,396 --> 00:49:02,231
and it is even more broken
1165
00:49:02,273 --> 00:49:04,776
for the first responder
community
1166
00:49:04,817 --> 00:49:06,069
'cause we know the system.
1167
00:49:06,653 --> 00:49:08,738
We know what to say
and what not to say.
1168
00:49:10,323 --> 00:49:13,076
We've had
a lot of ups and downs, um,
1169
00:49:13,117 --> 00:49:14,827
and to me
the most challenging thing
1170
00:49:14,869 --> 00:49:16,871
is watching somebody
1171
00:49:16,913 --> 00:49:19,374
while Keith was going through
his hardest times.
1172
00:49:20,208 --> 00:49:22,794
Desperately just trying
to figure it out
1173
00:49:22,835 --> 00:49:24,087
and desperately just...
1174
00:49:25,505 --> 00:49:26,589
[clears throat] Sorry.
1175
00:49:29,842 --> 00:49:33,054
There was a point in time
when he was in the hospital
1176
00:49:33,096 --> 00:49:36,808
and getting treatment
that was causing some me--
1177
00:49:36,849 --> 00:49:38,476
some short-term memory issues,
1178
00:49:38,518 --> 00:49:41,646
and-- and we would talk, um...
1179
00:49:42,814 --> 00:49:45,525
uh, just regular day talk stuff
1180
00:49:45,566 --> 00:49:47,110
trying to just visit,
1181
00:49:47,151 --> 00:49:50,321
and he would talk about
how just...
1182
00:49:51,447 --> 00:49:53,366
he would do
whatever he had to do
1183
00:49:53,408 --> 00:49:58,621
just to get back to that spot
of not being in this hell.
1184
00:49:59,288 --> 00:50:00,998
There's no-- really no other way
1185
00:50:01,040 --> 00:50:02,583
for me to be able
to describe it to somebody.
1186
00:50:02,625 --> 00:50:05,294
He was in hell,
he was, you know, he...
1187
00:50:06,462 --> 00:50:08,506
I-- I didn't help with that,
1188
00:50:08,548 --> 00:50:10,717
but I tried to be there for him
when...
1189
00:50:11,676 --> 00:50:15,555
didn't-- didn't recognize
some of the signs and missed it.
1190
00:50:16,556 --> 00:50:17,724
And, um...
1191
00:50:19,934 --> 00:50:22,311
then-- then your best friend
tries to kill himself.
1192
00:50:22,353 --> 00:50:26,482
[somber music plays]
1193
00:50:27,859 --> 00:50:29,777
{\an8}[Riggle]
When that bullet lodged
1194
00:50:29,819 --> 00:50:32,655
{\an8} in Keith Hanks' pistol,
it not only saved his life,
1195
00:50:32,697 --> 00:50:35,116
{\an8} it sent him down
a new path of discovery.
1196
00:50:35,950 --> 00:50:38,536
{\an8} That there are ways
to cope with the trauma
1197
00:50:38,578 --> 00:50:40,788
associated
with being a first responder.
1198
00:50:41,956 --> 00:50:43,624
Early on in my career,
1199
00:50:43,666 --> 00:50:45,918
it was just starting
to be recognized
1200
00:50:45,960 --> 00:50:50,423
that we're probably
not doing coping that well.
1201
00:50:50,465 --> 00:50:52,300
We've-- I've definitely
seen a change
1202
00:50:52,341 --> 00:50:55,094
over the 30 years that
I've been in the fire service.
1203
00:50:55,136 --> 00:50:59,015
Um, the change
to understand that,
1204
00:50:59,056 --> 00:51:02,310
yeah, this-- this job
will take a toll on you.
1205
00:51:02,351 --> 00:51:04,520
As I've been in my career,
like I said, this is, um,
1206
00:51:04,562 --> 00:51:06,397
I'm in my 21st year,
1207
00:51:06,439 --> 00:51:08,941
so when you see certain things
now,
1208
00:51:08,983 --> 00:51:10,693
it's easier me--
for me now to manage it,
1209
00:51:10,735 --> 00:51:12,195
and I have a good support system
1210
00:51:12,236 --> 00:51:13,488
of people--
of people to talk to.
1211
00:51:14,113 --> 00:51:17,909
I know some great doctors,
I speak to other officers,
1212
00:51:17,950 --> 00:51:19,535
um, good friends of mine,
1213
00:51:19,577 --> 00:51:21,496
you just need to--
you need to unload it.
1214
00:51:21,537 --> 00:51:23,623
{\an8}You can't be the tough guy
and think nothing bothers you
1215
00:51:23,664 --> 00:51:24,749
{\an8}'cause that's bullshit.
1216
00:51:24,791 --> 00:51:25,958
{\an8}It does bother you.
1217
00:51:26,000 --> 00:51:28,169
{\an8}Don't hide it, don't eat it.
1218
00:51:28,920 --> 00:51:32,548
You know, if you can't talk
to your partner at work,
1219
00:51:32,590 --> 00:51:35,134
if you can't talk to somebody
on the department,
1220
00:51:35,176 --> 00:51:37,678
if you can't talk
to a chaplain or-- or, you know,
1221
00:51:37,720 --> 00:51:40,932
some sort of clinician
or your significant other,
1222
00:51:40,973 --> 00:51:42,558
try and find somebody
that you can talk to,
1223
00:51:42,600 --> 00:51:44,560
because if you eat this stuff,
1224
00:51:44,602 --> 00:51:46,729
it-- it does
really bad things to you.
1225
00:51:46,771 --> 00:51:48,981
It's gonna--
it's gonna tear you up.
1226
00:51:49,023 --> 00:51:50,817
Even just talking
to your partner on the ride back
1227
00:51:50,858 --> 00:51:54,529
from-- from the call
helps tremendously.
1228
00:51:54,570 --> 00:51:56,030
All municipalities,
1229
00:51:56,072 --> 00:51:57,865
we have
an employee assistance program
1230
00:51:57,907 --> 00:51:59,575
that's open to all members.
1231
00:51:59,617 --> 00:52:01,828
I've actually referred
several people to that
1232
00:52:01,869 --> 00:52:03,037
for different reasons.
1233
00:52:03,079 --> 00:52:04,872
That's all anonymous.
1234
00:52:04,914 --> 00:52:06,666
You don't talk about
what you talked about inside,
1235
00:52:06,707 --> 00:52:09,836
so people
feel comfortable sharing.
1236
00:52:09,877 --> 00:52:12,672
Um, and that's designed
1237
00:52:12,713 --> 00:52:15,132
to kind of diffuse
the situation,
1238
00:52:15,174 --> 00:52:16,759
get it out.
1239
00:52:16,801 --> 00:52:19,679
See, and those people would,
you know, the--
1240
00:52:19,720 --> 00:52:22,682
the teams we bring in
might recognize, you know,
1241
00:52:22,723 --> 00:52:25,059
it's pretty normal reaction
with everybody
1242
00:52:25,101 --> 00:52:27,019
what they saw, you know,
1243
00:52:27,061 --> 00:52:29,981
whether it was a burn victim
or whether it was a car accident
1244
00:52:30,022 --> 00:52:33,818
or whether it was a--
a person that we worked with
1245
00:52:33,860 --> 00:52:35,570
that we had to render aid to,
1246
00:52:35,611 --> 00:52:37,446
which is always a high stress.
1247
00:52:37,488 --> 00:52:39,490
Um, they might identify,
1248
00:52:39,532 --> 00:52:41,158
"Hey, we need--
1249
00:52:41,200 --> 00:52:44,328
this person, we need to go down
a further road
1250
00:52:44,370 --> 00:52:47,456
to giving them those,
uh, those resources."
1251
00:52:47,498 --> 00:52:49,917
We're getting there,
but it's still a long way to go.
1252
00:52:50,668 --> 00:52:53,421
It's still taboo in a way
to talk about...
1253
00:52:55,047 --> 00:52:57,425
the-- the traumas that you see
and the fires that you go to
1254
00:52:57,466 --> 00:52:59,093
because, um,
1255
00:52:59,135 --> 00:53:01,012
either people
don't want to hear it,
1256
00:53:01,053 --> 00:53:03,389
or they're just like, "Well,
you chose that profession.
1257
00:53:03,431 --> 00:53:04,640
So, what do you mean?
1258
00:53:05,349 --> 00:53:06,893
You're having a bad
time with something?"
1259
00:53:06,934 --> 00:53:09,103
{\an8}The department
that I work for now, uh,
1260
00:53:09,145 --> 00:53:12,732
{\an8}the chief is very, um,
1261
00:53:12,773 --> 00:53:14,317
{\an8}open about this stuff.
1262
00:53:14,358 --> 00:53:16,819
And any time
there's a bad car accident
1263
00:53:16,861 --> 00:53:18,988
or a bad fire,
he always offers help
1264
00:53:19,030 --> 00:53:20,781
if you need it.
1265
00:53:20,823 --> 00:53:23,284
The employee assistant
programs are really good.
1266
00:53:24,035 --> 00:53:25,119
You know, I mean...
1267
00:53:27,121 --> 00:53:30,374
I-- I-- I hope people understand
that it's good to talk about it
1268
00:53:30,416 --> 00:53:31,751
and get it off your chest
1269
00:53:31,792 --> 00:53:32,960
instead of keeping it
all in, you know?
1270
00:53:33,502 --> 00:53:36,547
{\an8}[interviewer]
1271
00:53:42,553 --> 00:53:45,014
{\an8}Uh, they're at a lot better
advantage now
1272
00:53:45,056 --> 00:53:46,599
{\an8}than we ever were when,
you know,
1273
00:53:46,641 --> 00:53:48,851
{\an8}back when we started
25 years ago.
1274
00:53:48,893 --> 00:53:51,270
Yeah, back then
there was a stigma.
1275
00:53:51,312 --> 00:53:53,064
But as far as the people
coming up right now...
1276
00:53:54,106 --> 00:53:56,025
as an instructor
1277
00:53:56,067 --> 00:53:57,860
and as somebody who's worked
with people like that, you know,
1278
00:53:57,902 --> 00:54:00,112
they ask me, "How do you deal
with a call like this?"
1279
00:54:00,154 --> 00:54:01,280
I'm like,
"You cry your eyes out."
1280
00:54:02,281 --> 00:54:04,033
Like, as soon as you walk out
of the ambulance
1281
00:54:04,075 --> 00:54:05,576
or out of
the emergency department,
1282
00:54:05,618 --> 00:54:07,078
you go cry your eyes out,
you're a human being,
1283
00:54:07,119 --> 00:54:08,371
you're an emotional creature.
1284
00:54:09,080 --> 00:54:11,374
If you aren't affected by that,
I don't know what to tell--
1285
00:54:11,415 --> 00:54:13,125
I don't know
how to deal with that.
1286
00:54:13,167 --> 00:54:16,170
This peer support
or anyone helping somebody else
1287
00:54:16,212 --> 00:54:17,880
is always, like, a secret.
1288
00:54:17,922 --> 00:54:19,715
It's like, you gotta know
a special knock
1289
00:54:19,757 --> 00:54:21,342
or something like that
1290
00:54:21,384 --> 00:54:23,177
or have that person
to call that person,
1291
00:54:23,219 --> 00:54:25,221
and it can't--
it can't be that way.
1292
00:54:26,138 --> 00:54:28,432
I'm not talking about
talking about your feelings.
1293
00:54:28,474 --> 00:54:30,393
We get enough of that at work.
1294
00:54:30,434 --> 00:54:32,019
You just need to--
1295
00:54:32,061 --> 00:54:34,021
to basically identify
1296
00:54:34,063 --> 00:54:35,731
that there is support
that's needed.
1297
00:54:35,773 --> 00:54:38,734
Even though
as a society in general
1298
00:54:38,776 --> 00:54:40,444
is more open
to having conversations
1299
00:54:40,486 --> 00:54:42,822
about suicide awareness and--
and depression
1300
00:54:42,863 --> 00:54:46,534
{\an8}and those topics,
um, we are just--
1301
00:54:46,575 --> 00:54:48,119
{\an8}just now starting
to connect them
1302
00:54:48,160 --> 00:54:49,787
{\an8}into the first responder world.
1303
00:54:49,829 --> 00:54:51,539
We all started kind of
networking a little bit,
1304
00:54:51,580 --> 00:54:52,790
and there's more and more people
talking about it.
1305
00:54:53,541 --> 00:54:55,459
Uh, we have conversations now
with groups
1306
00:54:55,501 --> 00:54:57,628
as opposed to people
just going their separate ways
1307
00:54:57,670 --> 00:54:58,963
and-- and not talking about it.
1308
00:54:59,547 --> 00:55:02,133
So, they're still there,
they're just more open now
1309
00:55:02,174 --> 00:55:03,676
because people don't feel
they have to hide it.
1310
00:55:04,427 --> 00:55:06,721
And we're trying to pass on
to the newer generation,
1311
00:55:06,762 --> 00:55:08,347
the newer firefighters
and paramedics
1312
00:55:08,389 --> 00:55:09,598
coming into the field
1313
00:55:09,640 --> 00:55:11,851
that it's okay, talk about it.
1314
00:55:11,892 --> 00:55:13,394
Nobody cares,
nobody's judging you.
1315
00:55:13,436 --> 00:55:15,146
I think that's one thing,
1316
00:55:15,187 --> 00:55:17,732
especially in the last few years
has become--
1317
00:55:17,773 --> 00:55:20,484
the mental health professionals
have realized
1318
00:55:20,526 --> 00:55:22,069
peer counselors
1319
00:55:22,111 --> 00:55:25,990
or people get them trained
somewhat in this
1320
00:55:26,032 --> 00:55:27,700
are incredibly powerful.
1321
00:55:27,742 --> 00:55:29,285
'Cause sometimes,
someone from the outside,
1322
00:55:29,326 --> 00:55:32,038
especially
when you're on that hair trigger
1323
00:55:32,079 --> 00:55:33,789
or you're snapping
because of what you've seen,
1324
00:55:33,831 --> 00:55:36,417
and, I don't know,
someone right out of college
1325
00:55:36,459 --> 00:55:38,502
comes in and says, "Well,
we're gonna talk about this."
1326
00:55:38,544 --> 00:55:40,463
"Well, I don't want
to talk to you right now."
1327
00:55:41,213 --> 00:55:43,299
I do peer support groups
two nights a week,
1328
00:55:43,340 --> 00:55:45,051
and we just talk.
1329
00:55:45,092 --> 00:55:46,886
And it's good that
when you have that bad call,
1330
00:55:46,927 --> 00:55:48,679
my wife would just look at me,
"You got group tonight?"
1331
00:55:48,721 --> 00:55:49,805
"Yep."
1332
00:55:49,847 --> 00:55:51,432
And we know we're good.
1333
00:55:51,474 --> 00:55:53,100
And a couple of times
I'll get in on it,
1334
00:55:53,142 --> 00:55:54,935
and I just kind of need to vent
a little bit,
1335
00:55:54,977 --> 00:55:56,437
and life is good.
1336
00:55:56,479 --> 00:55:57,938
Now, we have
this backpack theory,
1337
00:55:57,980 --> 00:55:59,148
I don't know
if you've heard this,
1338
00:55:59,190 --> 00:56:00,399
um, every time we see a trauma,
1339
00:56:00,441 --> 00:56:02,443
we put a rock into a backpack.
1340
00:56:02,485 --> 00:56:04,612
And every time we talk about it,
we take a rock out.
1341
00:56:05,362 --> 00:56:07,823
If we do not talk about it,
that backpack will weigh us down
1342
00:56:07,865 --> 00:56:09,283
and break us.
1343
00:56:09,325 --> 00:56:10,993
So, the more
we unload from that,
1344
00:56:11,035 --> 00:56:12,661
the more we can receive.
1345
00:56:12,703 --> 00:56:14,246
One-on-one should be
to sit down and talk.
1346
00:56:14,288 --> 00:56:15,456
"Is everyone here all right?
1347
00:56:16,040 --> 00:56:17,750
We're gonna sit down
and talk as a group,
1348
00:56:17,792 --> 00:56:20,336
we're gonna sit down
and talk individually,
1349
00:56:20,377 --> 00:56:22,046
we're gonna make sure
everyone's okay."
1350
00:56:22,088 --> 00:56:23,506
Because you need to take care
of the people
1351
00:56:23,547 --> 00:56:24,507
that are taking care
of everyone.
1352
00:56:25,341 --> 00:56:28,010
Mentally, physically,
you know, um...
1353
00:56:29,053 --> 00:56:30,346
whatever we can do.
1354
00:56:30,387 --> 00:56:31,764
When you're on,
1355
00:56:31,806 --> 00:56:33,307
you're not allowed
to not be okay.
1356
00:56:34,058 --> 00:56:36,977
{\an8}You call an ambulance
and they show up,
1357
00:56:37,019 --> 00:56:39,605
{\an8}they gotta walk in calm, cool,
collected.
1358
00:56:39,647 --> 00:56:41,148
I'm not running,
I'm walking with a purpose.
1359
00:56:42,316 --> 00:56:43,943
I'm not yelling,
I'm talking loudly.
1360
00:56:44,568 --> 00:56:47,071
I'm not upset,
I'm calm and giving direction.
1361
00:56:47,780 --> 00:56:49,907
And if we're a mess...
1362
00:56:51,200 --> 00:56:53,744
imagine
how things go from there.
1363
00:56:53,786 --> 00:56:56,705
To find a way
to shut that on and off,
1364
00:56:56,747 --> 00:56:58,999
that's not a real easy switch
to hit,
1365
00:56:59,041 --> 00:57:01,043
uh, but...
1366
00:57:02,253 --> 00:57:06,132
when you're day-in and day-out
is potentially death,
1367
00:57:06,173 --> 00:57:08,425
dismemberment, destruction,
1368
00:57:08,467 --> 00:57:10,761
you should make sure
that you're all right.
1369
00:57:10,803 --> 00:57:12,263
Um, when I first came back,
1370
00:57:12,304 --> 00:57:14,682
my first appointment
was in Panama,
1371
00:57:14,723 --> 00:57:16,225
and I was able to meet
1372
00:57:16,267 --> 00:57:18,394
this old timer
special forces medic.
1373
00:57:18,435 --> 00:57:20,771
So, him and I, coming
from the special ops background,
1374
00:57:20,813 --> 00:57:22,356
really clicked,
1375
00:57:22,398 --> 00:57:24,316
and we were doing
some training together,
1376
00:57:24,358 --> 00:57:26,861
and he said to me, "Brian,
I don't know you at all,
1377
00:57:26,902 --> 00:57:30,156
but you need to take
what you have and what you feel,
1378
00:57:30,197 --> 00:57:31,949
and you need to make
a foundation.
1379
00:57:31,991 --> 00:57:33,784
And you can't make it
out of sandstone,
1380
00:57:33,826 --> 00:57:37,413
and you need to start this
today to make a solid--
1381
00:57:37,454 --> 00:57:39,039
because if you build it
out of things
1382
00:57:39,081 --> 00:57:41,250
and just suppress it
and tuck it away,
1383
00:57:41,292 --> 00:57:43,544
it's gonna crumble
and you will crumble."
1384
00:57:43,586 --> 00:57:47,631
The state has-- has recognized,
in the emergency services,
1385
00:57:47,673 --> 00:57:50,134
that we had-- we had a problem,
we have a problem,
1386
00:57:50,176 --> 00:57:53,220
and if we don't deal
with these things early on
1387
00:57:53,262 --> 00:57:56,390
and get it out of the--
get it out of the-- shadows,
1388
00:57:56,432 --> 00:57:59,226
uh, we-- it's a real problem.
1389
00:57:59,268 --> 00:58:03,439
I-- I wanna share this,
I always feel, um...
1390
00:58:03,480 --> 00:58:05,107
bad or a concern
1391
00:58:05,149 --> 00:58:08,944
for my law enforcement
brothers and sisters
1392
00:58:08,986 --> 00:58:13,115
'cause we talk about
us operating as companies
1393
00:58:13,157 --> 00:58:14,700
and together all the time.
1394
00:58:14,742 --> 00:58:17,036
Law enforcement officers,
a lot of times,
1395
00:58:17,077 --> 00:58:18,370
they're in their cruiser
by themselves
1396
00:58:18,412 --> 00:58:20,414
so they may get
and do a scene,
1397
00:58:20,456 --> 00:58:22,082
but then they go back out
on patrol.
1398
00:58:22,917 --> 00:58:24,710
They don't get that as much.
1399
00:58:24,752 --> 00:58:25,920
So, yeah.
It's getting better.
1400
00:58:25,961 --> 00:58:27,421
Before, in my profession,
1401
00:58:27,463 --> 00:58:29,757
I'd say, when I started,
garbage.
1402
00:58:29,798 --> 00:58:31,842
"Oh, let's go get drunk."
That's how we took care of it.
1403
00:58:32,343 --> 00:58:34,553
"Oh, we saw
27 dead bodies today."
1404
00:58:34,595 --> 00:58:36,639
"Ah, let's go get hammered.
It'll be all right."
1405
00:58:36,680 --> 00:58:38,974
But now we have good companies
and good services
1406
00:58:39,016 --> 00:58:40,935
that will come
to the station.
1407
00:58:40,976 --> 00:58:43,062
And our bosses where we work,
they're pretty good at it,
1408
00:58:43,103 --> 00:58:45,356
and our fire department,
they help out a lot, too.
1409
00:58:45,397 --> 00:58:47,191
This stuff has been going on
a long time.
1410
00:58:47,233 --> 00:58:49,109
We need to bring it out
and make it part of the culture
1411
00:58:49,151 --> 00:58:50,736
that it's okay to ask for help.
1412
00:58:50,778 --> 00:58:52,529
You're not invincible,
1413
00:58:52,571 --> 00:58:55,824
and we're gonna-- we're gonna
give you the tools
1414
00:58:55,866 --> 00:58:57,785
to help you deal with this
'cause we don't want to see
1415
00:58:57,826 --> 00:59:01,872
anybody deal or go to that--
driven there--
1416
00:59:01,914 --> 00:59:04,375
and it's-- it's a problem,
suicide or whatever.
1417
00:59:04,416 --> 00:59:05,918
I-- I can't even imagine.
1418
00:59:06,377 --> 00:59:07,836
It's never entered my mind,
1419
00:59:07,878 --> 00:59:09,004
but someone getting
to that point
1420
00:59:09,046 --> 00:59:10,631
where they're so helpless,
1421
00:59:10,673 --> 00:59:12,258
that's their thought,
so culture change.
1422
00:59:12,299 --> 00:59:13,926
Now the culture is developing,
1423
00:59:13,968 --> 00:59:16,011
it's understanding that, no,
you know what?
1424
00:59:16,053 --> 00:59:17,888
You go see
some of these tragedies,
1425
00:59:17,930 --> 00:59:19,807
you should probably talk
to somebody about it.
1426
00:59:20,349 --> 00:59:23,227
And if you do go
talk to somebody about it,
1427
00:59:23,269 --> 00:59:25,688
it's not reflected
as negative so much anymore.
1428
00:59:27,189 --> 00:59:28,649
[Riggle] The simple act
of opening up
1429
00:59:28,691 --> 00:59:30,818
has proven to be
a powerful tool,
1430
00:59:30,859 --> 00:59:33,028
but the first responders
of Townsend
1431
00:59:33,070 --> 00:59:36,657
have also found additional ways
of coping with the trauma.
1432
00:59:39,285 --> 00:59:40,744
[sighs]
1433
00:59:41,245 --> 00:59:43,330
I'm still on the job,
so there's only so much...
1434
00:59:44,456 --> 00:59:46,125
that I want to say, but--
1435
00:59:46,166 --> 00:59:47,584
or that I can say,
but...
1436
00:59:48,669 --> 00:59:50,129
oh, fuck, it.
1437
00:59:50,170 --> 00:59:55,968
In 2017, New Hampshire
finally made it
1438
00:59:56,010 --> 00:59:58,887
medically legal for people
with PTSD
1439
00:59:58,929 --> 01:00:00,681
to get
a medical marijuana card.
1440
01:00:01,307 --> 01:00:05,519
And, uh, I am very against
pills and pharmaceuticals,
1441
01:00:05,561 --> 01:00:06,895
but I was willing to try that.
1442
01:00:07,479 --> 01:00:10,149
And I did,
and it helped a lot.
1443
01:00:10,190 --> 01:00:12,651
Um, it didn't cure anything,
1444
01:00:12,693 --> 01:00:16,447
but it just helped
life suck less, you know?
1445
01:00:16,488 --> 01:00:18,782
It just--
I didn't want to drink,
1446
01:00:18,824 --> 01:00:20,326
but that was the only thing
I could do,
1447
01:00:20,367 --> 01:00:21,535
like, legally, you know?
1448
01:00:21,577 --> 01:00:22,870
That's the only thing
I could talk about.
1449
01:00:22,911 --> 01:00:24,121
I hated alcohol.
1450
01:00:24,163 --> 01:00:25,539
I knew alcohol made it worse,
1451
01:00:25,581 --> 01:00:27,166
but temporarily
it made it better.
1452
01:00:27,207 --> 01:00:29,710
But once I got
my medical marijuana card,
1453
01:00:29,752 --> 01:00:32,338
that helped keep me here,
1454
01:00:32,379 --> 01:00:33,922
it helped keep me around,
1455
01:00:33,964 --> 01:00:36,091
it leveled me out a little bit,
you know?
1456
01:00:36,133 --> 01:00:37,926
Then eventually,
1457
01:00:37,968 --> 01:00:40,846
it wasn't really helping
anymore, you know?
1458
01:00:41,680 --> 01:00:46,602
And I ended up having
an event happen at work
1459
01:00:46,643 --> 01:00:51,774
which really triggered me
and just set me off
1460
01:00:51,815 --> 01:00:53,734
in the worst way possible.
1461
01:00:53,776 --> 01:00:56,945
And basically I had
a mental breakdown.
1462
01:00:56,987 --> 01:01:00,074
And I was unleashed,
unhinged.
1463
01:01:00,115 --> 01:01:02,117
It was the closest
to pure insanity
1464
01:01:02,159 --> 01:01:03,827
I've ever been
in my entire life.
1465
01:01:03,869 --> 01:01:07,164
Over something
now I consider pretty stupid.
1466
01:01:07,206 --> 01:01:10,250
But, you know, after years
of just bottling it up
1467
01:01:10,292 --> 01:01:12,461
and just holding it in,
it's funny,
1468
01:01:12,503 --> 01:01:14,046
all you need is that one
little thing
1469
01:01:14,088 --> 01:01:15,172
and you just...
[imitates bomb exploding]
1470
01:01:15,214 --> 01:01:16,799
It just explodes.
1471
01:01:16,840 --> 01:01:19,885
And, uh, so I exploded,
and, coincidentally,
1472
01:01:19,927 --> 01:01:22,179
right around the same time
that I exploded,
1473
01:01:22,221 --> 01:01:24,515
I started reading
a book on meditation.
1474
01:01:25,099 --> 01:01:30,229
And after many failed attempts,
I finally was able to meditate
1475
01:01:30,270 --> 01:01:32,314
and it changed
my entire life.
1476
01:01:32,940 --> 01:01:36,735
And, uh, it's just been
an incredible journey
1477
01:01:36,777 --> 01:01:38,987
for the past three years,
since then...
1478
01:01:40,739 --> 01:01:44,952
of healing,
and I'm doing it myself
1479
01:01:44,993 --> 01:01:46,161
with no outside sources.
1480
01:01:47,162 --> 01:01:48,914
And, uh,
it's led to everything.
1481
01:01:48,956 --> 01:01:52,292
That's the basis of my talk
that I tell people
1482
01:01:52,334 --> 01:01:54,586
is I try to get veterans
1483
01:01:54,628 --> 01:01:56,588
and police and firemen
to start meditating
1484
01:01:56,630 --> 01:01:58,298
because of
how much it helped me.
1485
01:01:58,340 --> 01:01:59,925
And that's when I met Keith.
1486
01:02:00,968 --> 01:02:02,511
And so here I am
meeting this guy,
1487
01:02:02,553 --> 01:02:04,012
and we're talking about
our presentations
1488
01:02:04,054 --> 01:02:05,681
and how we're
gonna do it.
1489
01:02:05,722 --> 01:02:07,599
And he's like, "Oh, man,
do you meditate at all?"
1490
01:02:07,641 --> 01:02:09,226
You know, he's asking me,
"Do you do cannabis at all?
1491
01:02:09,268 --> 01:02:10,727
Like, what are your things?
What do you do?"
1492
01:02:10,769 --> 01:02:12,438
And he's kind of
a laid back guy,
1493
01:02:12,479 --> 01:02:13,981
and I'm like,
"No, I don't fucking meditate.
1494
01:02:14,022 --> 01:02:15,732
Like, no."
1495
01:02:15,774 --> 01:02:19,069
And so he sends me a book
by a Buddhist monk.
1496
01:02:20,070 --> 01:02:21,530
I'm like, "Oh, my God.
Here we go."
1497
01:02:23,699 --> 01:02:26,702
I started meditating,
and I started realizing
1498
01:02:26,743 --> 01:02:28,412
the only thing I have
control over is my reaction,
1499
01:02:28,454 --> 01:02:30,581
and that my whole life I've been
reactive.
1500
01:02:31,540 --> 01:02:33,709
And for the first time
in my life, I'm able to...
1501
01:02:35,002 --> 01:02:36,628
shut off the, you know,
whatever it'd be,
1502
01:02:36,670 --> 01:02:38,839
the images,
the-- the voices.
1503
01:02:38,881 --> 01:02:40,883
You know, thinking about
the past
1504
01:02:40,924 --> 01:02:42,468
and worrying about the future,
it started to become something
1505
01:02:42,509 --> 01:02:43,760
I had more control over
1506
01:02:43,802 --> 01:02:45,220
because
I was living in the now.
1507
01:02:45,262 --> 01:02:46,972
I was-- I was practicing
mindfulness.
1508
01:02:47,014 --> 01:02:49,850
I was-- I was--
I was really getting into it,
1509
01:02:50,726 --> 01:02:54,438
and it just-- it just--
I nurtured it,
1510
01:02:54,480 --> 01:02:56,023
and it just flourished.
1511
01:02:56,064 --> 01:02:57,774
It just grew into
something just amazing.
1512
01:02:57,816 --> 01:03:00,027
I wouldn't have bought
into it
1513
01:03:00,068 --> 01:03:02,821
had I not experienced something
in the fall,
1514
01:03:02,863 --> 01:03:06,074
uh, a breathing process
that I witnessed.
1515
01:03:06,116 --> 01:03:08,911
I lived it, I saw it,
I saw what it does.
1516
01:03:09,411 --> 01:03:12,080
Uh, my arthritis,
that I've had most of my life
1517
01:03:12,122 --> 01:03:14,416
since I came back from Iraq,
doesn't exist.
1518
01:03:15,167 --> 01:03:17,461
I don't have aches and pains
when I stand up anymore.
1519
01:03:17,503 --> 01:03:19,880
My stress level's significantly
lower.
1520
01:03:21,673 --> 01:03:23,675
That stuff works.
1521
01:03:23,717 --> 01:03:26,428
This Reiki stuff and the yoga
and all that stuff is working.
1522
01:03:26,470 --> 01:03:32,100
Later in the fall of 2021,
I got a weird Facebook message
1523
01:03:32,142 --> 01:03:33,727
from one of the groups
I had joined
1524
01:03:33,769 --> 01:03:35,979
regarding
first responder PTSD,
1525
01:03:36,021 --> 01:03:38,148
and she was like,
"I run this coaching business
1526
01:03:38,190 --> 01:03:40,108
and, you know,
with what you post,
1527
01:03:40,150 --> 01:03:42,945
and, you know, everything,
and what I saw in your bio,
1528
01:03:42,986 --> 01:03:44,738
you know, I really think
we could be a good team."
1529
01:03:44,780 --> 01:03:46,657
And I'm like,
"What's life coaching?"
1530
01:03:46,698 --> 01:03:48,367
Because it's so unheard of
in the first responder world
1531
01:03:48,408 --> 01:03:49,868
because it started
in the corporate--
1532
01:03:49,910 --> 01:03:51,161
coaching started
in the corporate world
1533
01:03:51,203 --> 01:03:52,996
and in the church world,
1534
01:03:53,038 --> 01:03:55,916
but as first responders,
we're barely using therapists.
1535
01:03:55,958 --> 01:03:58,335
And so we start
doing these-- these sessions,
1536
01:03:58,377 --> 01:04:00,796
you know, me and her,
and we start setting goals.
1537
01:04:01,672 --> 01:04:03,298
What can you work on?
1538
01:04:03,340 --> 01:04:04,591
What things do you not like
in your life?
1539
01:04:05,300 --> 01:04:07,094
And one of the things
I didn't like was
1540
01:04:07,135 --> 01:04:08,720
the fact that I hadn't talked
to my son in seven years,
1541
01:04:08,762 --> 01:04:10,347
my oldest son,
1542
01:04:10,389 --> 01:04:12,057
and then my oldest daughter
in almost three.
1543
01:04:13,016 --> 01:04:15,894
And we had this conversation
and we talked about goal setting
1544
01:04:15,936 --> 01:04:18,063
and perspectives
and what can be done,
1545
01:04:18,105 --> 01:04:19,856
and the next day
I actually called my kids.
1546
01:04:21,942 --> 01:04:24,778
And so it's become
this-- this thing
1547
01:04:24,820 --> 01:04:26,947
that just fits into
who I am.
1548
01:04:26,989 --> 01:04:28,490
In a coaching relationship
1549
01:04:28,532 --> 01:04:30,409
we listen
on three different levels,
1550
01:04:30,450 --> 01:04:32,286
and we ask
very powerful questions
1551
01:04:32,327 --> 01:04:36,415
that allow the individual
to come to their own ideas
1552
01:04:36,456 --> 01:04:38,375
{\an8}and understandings
about where they are right now,
1553
01:04:38,417 --> 01:04:42,337
{\an8}and help them to formulate
action steps and goals
1554
01:04:42,379 --> 01:04:44,256
{\an8}to lead them
into positive changes.
1555
01:04:44,298 --> 01:04:48,552
Um, the negative connotation
that therapy, uh,
1556
01:04:48,594 --> 01:04:51,555
we-- we feel when we talk about
therapy or counseling,
1557
01:04:51,597 --> 01:04:53,265
um, is something
1558
01:04:53,307 --> 01:04:54,182
that's very different
from-- from coaching.
1559
01:04:56,059 --> 01:04:58,520
[Riggle] After years of
watching himself and his peers
1560
01:04:58,562 --> 01:05:02,774
{\an8}struggling with mental health,
Brian Moran opened Hilltop Farm,
1561
01:05:02,816 --> 01:05:06,111
{\an8} a retreat for friends like
Keith Hanks and Brian Harkins
1562
01:05:06,153 --> 01:05:09,323
to get away from the triggers
of everyday life
1563
01:05:09,364 --> 01:05:10,782
and just breathe.
1564
01:05:11,700 --> 01:05:15,537
{\an8}30-something years
of working 90, 100 hours a week
1565
01:05:15,579 --> 01:05:17,623
{\an8}and now here I am
at the Hilltop Farm
1566
01:05:17,664 --> 01:05:20,709
{\an8}in Mason, New Hampshire,
working as a shepherd,
1567
01:05:20,751 --> 01:05:22,002
{\an8}working with my wife.
1568
01:05:22,044 --> 01:05:23,962
{\an8}We actually have
survivor's guilt
1569
01:05:24,004 --> 01:05:26,089
{\an8}because
we got out of health care.
1570
01:05:26,131 --> 01:05:27,299
We made the break.
1571
01:05:27,341 --> 01:05:29,092
Counseling can only do so much,
1572
01:05:29,134 --> 01:05:31,094
and I found that
just talking more and more,
1573
01:05:31,136 --> 01:05:32,971
like, we talk to Keith and Brian
and these other groups
1574
01:05:33,013 --> 01:05:34,181
that we're doing.
1575
01:05:34,222 --> 01:05:36,767
These retreat-like atmospheres,
1576
01:05:36,808 --> 01:05:38,602
I think they help more
than the therapy.
1577
01:05:38,644 --> 01:05:40,312
There has to be
more places like this place here
1578
01:05:40,354 --> 01:05:41,813
to help us out,
1579
01:05:41,855 --> 01:05:44,399
um, more relaxation for us.
1580
01:05:44,441 --> 01:05:46,735
And it's working better
than the high-priced medications
1581
01:05:46,777 --> 01:05:48,070
that they want to give you.
1582
01:05:48,111 --> 01:05:49,613
Or maybe you can go out
1583
01:05:49,655 --> 01:05:51,782
and play with some sheep,
you know?
1584
01:05:51,823 --> 01:05:54,284
Help trim their nails,
feed them, clean the stalls.
1585
01:05:54,326 --> 01:05:55,786
You know,
go out and play with the dogs
1586
01:05:55,827 --> 01:05:57,245
and run around the fields.
1587
01:05:57,287 --> 01:05:58,997
It's working.
1588
01:05:59,039 --> 01:06:00,791
We realized that one
of the things we could do
1589
01:06:00,832 --> 01:06:03,210
is working the farm,
working with animals,
1590
01:06:03,251 --> 01:06:04,753
that they can relax
1591
01:06:04,795 --> 01:06:06,421
and just learn
how to breathe again.
1592
01:06:06,463 --> 01:06:08,507
I physically changed,
1593
01:06:08,548 --> 01:06:10,676
and I've only been here
five months,
1594
01:06:10,717 --> 01:06:13,929
uh, off basically
all the meds that I take,
1595
01:06:13,970 --> 01:06:16,390
uh, clean eating,
clean living.
1596
01:06:16,431 --> 01:06:17,724
Uh, it's been good.
1597
01:06:17,766 --> 01:06:19,309
It's been very good.
1598
01:06:19,351 --> 01:06:21,228
And we wanted to give that
to other people,
1599
01:06:21,269 --> 01:06:23,146
so we came up
with a crazy idea
1600
01:06:23,188 --> 01:06:24,898
of starting
to invite people out.
1601
01:06:24,940 --> 01:06:27,025
There was two good studies
out of the VA,
1602
01:06:27,067 --> 01:06:31,697
uh, one for animals and one
for plants and horticulture
1603
01:06:31,738 --> 01:06:34,324
that it just lowers
your blood pressure,
1604
01:06:34,366 --> 01:06:37,327
get you off the medicines, calm,
that kind of stuff.
1605
01:06:37,369 --> 01:06:39,204
We don't want a clinical site.
1606
01:06:39,246 --> 01:06:41,206
We just want a place
1607
01:06:41,248 --> 01:06:43,458
where you can check your luggage
at the door and breathe again.
1608
01:06:43,500 --> 01:06:45,544
Sometimes we don't need
to hear your story,
1609
01:06:45,585 --> 01:06:47,212
just be here.
1610
01:06:47,254 --> 01:06:49,840
And even if they just
need to do it for a day,
1611
01:06:49,881 --> 01:06:52,592
it's-- it's-- sometimes
the day is all that counts.
1612
01:06:52,634 --> 01:06:55,345
The day of the trades
where people are working
1613
01:06:55,387 --> 01:06:57,681
and they build something
and say, "I built that."
1614
01:06:57,723 --> 01:06:59,099
For us in health care,
1615
01:06:59,141 --> 01:07:00,851
and a lot of times
in the military,
1616
01:07:00,892 --> 01:07:02,477
police as well,
1617
01:07:02,519 --> 01:07:04,521
you really can't put your finger
on anything,
1618
01:07:04,563 --> 01:07:06,815
and so here is that moment
1619
01:07:06,857 --> 01:07:08,525
where you can have
an anything.
1620
01:07:10,861 --> 01:07:15,198
What I do now is
I'm an advocate for PTSD.
1621
01:07:16,199 --> 01:07:19,661
Uh, the stigma, the awareness,
suicide awareness,
1622
01:07:19,703 --> 01:07:21,788
mental illness and
mental wellness as a whole.
1623
01:07:23,999 --> 01:07:25,667
You know, the biggest thing...
1624
01:07:28,837 --> 01:07:30,213
what I tell people...
1625
01:07:31,590 --> 01:07:34,342
is that you gotta--
you gotta face--
1626
01:07:34,384 --> 01:07:35,844
you gotta face the music,
1627
01:07:35,886 --> 01:07:37,387
you gotta face
who you really are.
1628
01:07:37,429 --> 01:07:38,889
And that's a really hard thing
for us
1629
01:07:38,930 --> 01:07:40,265
in the first responder world
to do.
1630
01:07:41,600 --> 01:07:43,769
You know, and, you know,
we're like--
1631
01:07:43,810 --> 01:07:45,270
we won't face, you know,
1632
01:07:45,312 --> 01:07:47,272
the skeletons in our closet,
right?
1633
01:07:47,314 --> 01:07:49,107
We'll go into a burning building
1634
01:07:49,149 --> 01:07:50,609
where there's absolutely
no hope to find anyone alive.
1635
01:07:51,735 --> 01:07:53,278
You know,
we'll go in a burning building
1636
01:07:53,320 --> 01:07:54,946
with-- with-- knowing that,
you know,
1637
01:07:54,988 --> 01:07:56,740
that hose line may fail
and we may get trapped
1638
01:07:56,782 --> 01:07:57,866
and we may burn alive.
1639
01:07:57,908 --> 01:07:58,992
That's okay.
1640
01:08:00,160 --> 01:08:03,121
That's okay, but facing the shit
that's already happened,
1641
01:08:03,163 --> 01:08:04,956
it's already happened,
it's not happening right now,
1642
01:08:04,998 --> 01:08:06,541
it happened 20 years ago...
1643
01:08:07,876 --> 01:08:09,294
that's too scary
to deal with...
1644
01:08:11,379 --> 01:08:12,964
but if you're going to heal,
1645
01:08:13,006 --> 01:08:14,591
and you're gonna have longevity
in the job,
1646
01:08:14,633 --> 01:08:16,259
and you're gonna be a better,
you know,
1647
01:08:16,301 --> 01:08:18,428
father, mother, brother,
sister, son, daughter,
1648
01:08:18,470 --> 01:08:20,472
whatever it is you are,
1649
01:08:20,514 --> 01:08:21,848
you gotta face that shit...
1650
01:08:23,141 --> 01:08:24,643
because it's not going away
until you do.
1651
01:08:25,435 --> 01:08:26,520
It's gonna stay there.
1652
01:08:29,314 --> 01:08:32,818
{\an8}I think the message is that
you are not alone,
1653
01:08:32,859 --> 01:08:36,947
{\an8}that we have resources,
we have support.
1654
01:08:36,988 --> 01:08:38,949
Hopefully,
someone starting today,
1655
01:08:38,990 --> 01:08:41,743
in 30 years will go--
look back and go,
1656
01:08:41,785 --> 01:08:44,830
"Geez,
the culture now is better,"
1657
01:08:44,871 --> 01:08:46,873
or, you know,
they can't even imagine
1658
01:08:46,915 --> 01:08:48,708
where I came from.
1659
01:08:48,750 --> 01:08:50,502
Coffee and doughnuts were always
in the back. [laughs]
1660
01:08:50,544 --> 01:08:52,045
It's pretty funny.
1661
01:08:52,087 --> 01:08:53,088
You're leaving
an asset on the table
1662
01:08:53,129 --> 01:08:54,256
as far as I'm concerned.
1663
01:08:54,881 --> 01:08:56,883
You should make sure
you check in with people.
1664
01:08:56,925 --> 01:08:59,511
The biggest thing is don't try
and deal with it on your own.
1665
01:08:59,553 --> 01:09:01,179
If you need help,
get the help.
1666
01:09:02,305 --> 01:09:05,892
There are plenty
of things out there nowadays.
1667
01:09:05,934 --> 01:09:08,311
I think the mentality
that we have to lose,
1668
01:09:08,353 --> 01:09:10,230
so important
that we have to lose,
1669
01:09:10,272 --> 01:09:14,192
is that man, woman, child,
you still have feelings
1670
01:09:14,234 --> 01:09:15,694
and what you see...
1671
01:09:17,320 --> 01:09:19,573
and how awful those things are
need to be talked about.
1672
01:09:19,614 --> 01:09:22,534
It's not necessarily
spouting off all the answers.
1673
01:09:22,576 --> 01:09:24,452
It's, "Here's
where you want to look,"
1674
01:09:24,494 --> 01:09:26,705
you know, "Here are some things
you want to be a part of."
1675
01:09:26,746 --> 01:09:28,415
It's, "Here's
the other resources
1676
01:09:28,456 --> 01:09:30,417
that can help you,"
and that's a good thing.
1677
01:09:30,458 --> 01:09:33,378
You know, whether you grew up
in the fire service or not,
1678
01:09:33,420 --> 01:09:37,799
you need to take a breath,
and if it's a bad thing
1679
01:09:37,841 --> 01:09:40,677
or you're having a tough time,
to always come back,
1680
01:09:40,719 --> 01:09:43,346
and that's what the firehouse
kitchen table's for.
1681
01:09:43,388 --> 01:09:45,765
I've already seen
quite a few things,
1682
01:09:45,807 --> 01:09:48,602
and I know that
I'm gonna continue to see that.
1683
01:09:48,643 --> 01:09:50,604
And I'm okay with that
'cause I love this job...
1684
01:09:51,980 --> 01:09:53,815
but I'm mostly okay with it
1685
01:09:53,857 --> 01:09:56,067
because I know now I have
the tools to deal with it.
1686
01:09:56,109 --> 01:09:57,944
You know, you're a firefighter,
1687
01:09:57,986 --> 01:09:59,571
you're supposed to go out
and help everybody, and--
1688
01:09:59,613 --> 01:10:01,907
but the problem is,
it's like who helps us?
1689
01:10:01,948 --> 01:10:04,576
Let's just-- let's just find a
way to help and get through it,
1690
01:10:04,618 --> 01:10:07,078
because if I'm not on point
at work right now
1691
01:10:07,120 --> 01:10:09,331
'cause I'm worried about
what happened the other day,
1692
01:10:09,372 --> 01:10:11,291
I'm gonna be ineffective
and something bad could happen
1693
01:10:11,333 --> 01:10:12,792
to any one of these people
in the public
1694
01:10:12,834 --> 01:10:14,294
that I'm supposed to help.
1695
01:10:14,336 --> 01:10:16,630
You're not a victim
of your past,
1696
01:10:16,671 --> 01:10:19,799
you are who you are
as a product of your past,
1697
01:10:19,841 --> 01:10:24,220
but it doesn't change you
as a human
1698
01:10:24,262 --> 01:10:26,014
in terms of
your good qualities.
1699
01:10:26,056 --> 01:10:28,308
Those things you can't take back
that you can only--
1700
01:10:28,350 --> 01:10:30,560
you can only do better
from this point forward...
1701
01:10:31,645 --> 01:10:33,813
that I'm now facing with my--
with my two older kids.
1702
01:10:33,855 --> 01:10:35,482
And-- and how do you do that?
1703
01:10:36,399 --> 01:10:38,902
As a-- as a man in his--
in his almost mid-40s now
1704
01:10:38,944 --> 01:10:40,779
with two adult children...
1705
01:10:41,863 --> 01:10:44,366
now my battle is,
how do I fix that bridge?
1706
01:10:45,367 --> 01:10:46,826
How do I prove to them that
1707
01:10:46,868 --> 01:10:48,578
I'm not angry,
scary Daddy anymore?
1708
01:10:49,454 --> 01:10:51,998
Riley, she's never known me
as a firefighter.
1709
01:10:52,040 --> 01:10:53,959
She's never seen me
run off to a call,
1710
01:10:54,000 --> 01:10:56,711
She's never-- I've never had
to leave on a 48-hour shift.
1711
01:10:58,296 --> 01:11:01,925
She also hasn't seen me
as the Incredible Hulk.
1712
01:11:01,967 --> 01:11:03,093
She's seen me as Daddy.
1713
01:11:04,511 --> 01:11:06,763
And I am so grateful
for that.
1714
01:11:06,805 --> 01:11:11,851
{\an8}♪
1715
01:11:25,031 --> 01:11:27,409
{\an8}["Whatever You Say" by
Dark Sky Reserve playing]
1716
01:11:46,469 --> 01:11:48,888
♪ And some things
won't leave you ♪
1717
01:11:50,974 --> 01:11:53,351
♪ No matter
how hard you try ♪
1718
01:11:55,228 --> 01:11:58,314
♪ They stay
in the distance ♪
1719
01:11:58,356 --> 01:12:02,235
♪ Like the moon stays
with the sky ♪
1720
01:12:04,237 --> 01:12:06,740
♪ Some folks
have to wander ♪
1721
01:12:08,700 --> 01:12:10,952
♪ No matter
how far they go ♪
1722
01:12:12,996 --> 01:12:19,919
♪ Still drawn together
like the body and the soul ♪
1723
01:12:22,172 --> 01:12:25,216
♪ You and I had a difference ♪
1724
01:12:26,426 --> 01:12:29,679
♪ We've caught up in the flood ♪
1725
01:12:30,889 --> 01:12:36,269
♪ We live just outside of
of the moon ♪
1726
01:12:36,311 --> 01:12:38,313
♪ And blood ♪
1727
01:12:39,522 --> 01:12:42,609
♪ I need a drag
'cause I want to drown ♪
1728
01:12:45,070 --> 01:12:51,576
♪ Hurry up,
try not to wake us up ♪
1729
01:12:51,618 --> 01:12:55,121
♪ I didn't want
to let you down ♪
1730
01:12:58,291 --> 01:13:02,045
♪ I didn't want
to let you down ♪
1731
01:13:24,400 --> 01:13:26,361
♪ Not what I had coming ♪
1732
01:13:28,696 --> 01:13:30,615
♪ I guess
I should've known ♪
1733
01:13:32,909 --> 01:13:35,620
♪ I left
with all the splinters ♪
1734
01:13:36,538 --> 01:13:40,250
♪ The crushing of the bones ♪
1735
01:13:41,960 --> 01:13:44,087
{\an8} ♪ The words
you say about me ♪
1736
01:13:46,297 --> 01:13:48,758
{\an8} ♪ You know
I'm still the same ♪