What else is new?
Well, I went to this psychedelic party that like changed my life briefly.
-No way. -I went to this...
-Mushrooms? -Yeah, mushrooms.
There was loads of activities to sort of get to know each other.
There was this thing called liquid love where you all get naked,
and then you pour olive oil all over yourselves
and you just all like roll around the floor slipping and sliding over each other.
No way!
This is when I had touched a man's penis.
We were just playing and then you would end up kissing everyone.
-Fucking hell! -And then you sort of...
And it completely like changed my perception of sex, so much more...
And really made me realise like so much...
...it's like you really pressurised into it: like sex, sex, sex,
whereas there is no stress at all attached to it.
Alright then...
-Where do I look through it? -Here.
Gudrun, and here...
...with this hand...
...this ring makes it sharper.
-Not this way, Ruben on your front! -No!
Yes, that way. And now look at here.
-Look there is a church. -Where?
Over there, it is just passing us.
Oh yes...
Yeah, I can see it being passing on.
-What sort of day we had today? -Oh, I've had a nice day. I've been...
...I've learnt, did some maths.
-Zan, do you remember Mr. Lester? -Mr. Lester? Who was he?
He was my teacher at school.
-He is. -He was. He is my teacher.
Anyway we used to go on like that, didn't we?
We had quite a lot of conversations about imaginary situations:
What would it have been like if we were born in the 14th century.
What would it be like if we got out of bed in the morning?
And we wouldn’t be able put on the light and that sort of thing.
You were only 8 years old.
It was great fun, I enjoyed it, too.
Yeah, it was really good.
Lívia, could you tell me that dream of yours when...?
Yes, I can.
...when we're together at the...
-...at the concentration camp. -Yes.
We were standing on the appellplatz
and it was like that in reality, too, that we stood in ten lines of ten.
And you were standing behind me.
One of the women was holding a saucepan and the smell of cabbage was coming from it.
And I love cabbage!
And the scent of cabbage came,
and I leant over.
The woman who was holding the cabbage jumped over to me,
and she pressed a wafer biscuit into my hand.
A wafer!
And I turned around and I gave it to you.
And I woke...
...with the words in my mouth:
"Maybe that...
...will make your life longer by a day."
That wafer biscuit.
That was all.
You don’t even like wafer biscuits!
Wow, look at this!
Is that Müller?
It’s possible.
That's your grandad, the one who founded that...
...alternative religion?
Yes.
I don’t understand why we haven’t seen this before?
I also sometimes think that you have no interest in the old times.
-Oh, really? -Yes.
-Oh, I see. -Yeah.
When you were young, were you interested in older times at all?
Back in the days...
I don't know what can I recall...
I don’t know.
I think...
I don't know. I think there is stuff in there you haven't tapped.
She is probably involved in some horrific like...
...saying yes to some things that maybe harrow her.
No one is an angel, is it?
Just with my gran it’s a bit more obvious.
Do you think there would be a way of doing it...
delving deeper into their deeper emotions, without having to sort of...?
Yeah. Never show it to them!
So we are in the place where Lívia got taken away and it’s kicking off!
Bolo's gran Lívia used to play here as a teenager, this where she was in the ghetto.
She used to live in a flat with four other families.
It was pretty intense I think.
And then she got taken to Dachau concentration camp,
on the way she tried to escape at Komárno,
which is where we're going tomorrow, which is exciting!
Okay, are you ready?
Bolo!
-We are Nazis. -No.
Yes, we are!
You are the backup for the Nazi backup.
Spawn again! You have to stand up!
We've got the Nazi!
We've got the Jew!
Alright, you are coming to the concentration camp!
Come on!
Hello!
History is made in Budapest!
Ball-dropping... skills!
Zan, could you tell me that story when you shook hands with Hitler in Rome?
Yes. We were in Italy before the war,
because of my father being an air attaché there.
And we once went to a review by Mussolini and his troops.
And Hitler came onto the thing, and it was a little bit early for the review to begin
and so the man was desperately looking around for somebody to introduce him to...
And he introduced him to my father.
His hair, which looked black in the photographs,
was really quite blondish on the blond side,
and his face was, too, because he had blue eyes...
...blue grey eyes with rather a fanatical look.
And with a sort of pink, ruddy pink face. Like a blond man.
Did he look friendly?
He looked quite friendly. There was no reason...
...there was no war on then.
And he was courting the Italians,
and also courting the English,
hoping they would all be friends with them
and so he was being really pleasant, and sort of smiling.
If they had uniforms laid out, which one would you pick?
I would probably this Nazi one here.
And you, Ruben?
I don't know...
Not the Nazi one, obviously!
Obviously? You are German!
I'm serious.
Fuck!
After the shot, the gun empty herself and reloading herself.
Right?
Is it a she?
She.
Target!
Shoot!
It is casual actually.
It's casual? That is the beginnig of a fucking nutter!
"It's casual!"
It is very fun, it is real fun.
Shoot it!
No!
-Fucking mental! -Come on! Come on!
Excellent!
That was really weird.
-Yeah? -Yeah.
In what way?
-Adrenalin. -Yeah, it's adrenalin, innit? It's good!
Power, you've got power, brov!
That's not power!
Is it?
...and then games of soldiers you were playing there?
Endless soldier games.
Ruben was forbidden to have guns when he was growing up.
-Really? -Same here.
-And Bolo. -Were you?
Where we were all kind of almost encouraged to play army games.
I don't think you were encouraged. People gave you toy guns and things for presents.
Yeah.
I call that encouragement.
Well, I suppose it was, yes.
I often have the feeling,
that I’m describing something that I’ve already described.
These things are buried so deep,
as if they didn’t happen to me.
It feels just like describing a film...
I mean...
...it’s very difficult to know,
what one says is absolutely the true recording of what happened.
It might be one's own impression of what's happened
and so it wouldn’t ring a bell with you.
All I can do is record what I remembered.
So let's go to hut... Which was the hut you worked in?
My hut was down here.
So this is where you started your spy career at Bletchley Park?
It's pretty cool!
We're gonna pretend that you are working here.
Hello!
Yes, Mrs. Zan Colchester is here.
Yes, she is just working on some codes.
You are working very hard, aren't you Mrs. Colchester?
Yes, at the moment there is tremendous concentration.
Yes, tremendous concentration is being made.
How many codes have you decyphered today?
Oh, about half a dozen.
Yes, we will get on it right away.
Don't worry, Mr. Cooper.
-Oh, Joe Cooper? -Joe Cooper.
Well, what are you doing now?
Well, I'm sure it's terribly interesting.
There must be rather a crowd all around.
Do you sometimes long to come back to Bletchley again?
Oh, there we are.
Goodbye!
They've gone now, they've taken the last train for home.
Strange.
Just stay in your memories. Do not analyse!
Yes.
Stay in yourself. Do not speak in the third person.
-Do you understand? -Yes!
Otherwise that’s good!
Alright.
Well, it was the last school day before summer,
we all gathered in the schoolyard
and the flag was raised.
It was so exciting to hear the flag crackling in the wind.
And then we...
Which flag?
-What? -Which flag?
Which flag?
What kind of flag?
The...
...flag, the flag of National Socialism,
...the red flag with the swastika in the middle,
was raised.
I can still hear the crackling sound of the flag rattling in the wind.
It was so exciting, I remember the goose bumps.
Then we sang some songs: "Our Flag is Fluttering in Front"
and we marched around in the schoolyard.
It was great!
I sped home on my scooter, full of excitement,
to lunch
and then I sat there at the dinner table, my father sitting across from me.
And he asked me:
“And how was school?”
and then I said: “Daddy, it was great!”
And he got very quiet, he looked at me,
getting quieter, just kept looking at me.
The war was a wonderful time in a way because
everybody was so nice to each other,
and had wonderful times together and also,
you know we had got a nice feeling of we're winning the war at the end of it.
Because I look at it, I sort of still see it...
...with pride.
With pride and not so much the horror.
Sweet, isn't he?
But it’s very funny talking to them, and how their experiences were all bad.
My gran wrote these diaries in Rome when she was 16.
-Little innocent picture of a Jew... -...looking over the barbed wire.
So much more engaged with politics. She drew this in 1938.
She's got a weird fascination with Hitler and Mussolini there, isn't she?
Where is this Hitler? Here it is!
Look at that picture!
Had a wonderful dream about Hitler.
He was sweet in the dream and most attractive and we fell in love.
The rest of the time was taken up in a thrilling chase in a ruined loft.
Zan had a love affair for Hitler.
It's fucking funny!
Actually, the Soviet Army had advanced so considerably
that they had already surrounded Budapest
so there wasn’t...
...any reality of us being deported from the country.
It was open land here. There was nothing here, no one.
It was only us and the soldiers.
And one of the gendarmes
looked just like Gary Cooper,
and we made up a marching chant about that:
"Gary Cooper will shoot your arse if we don’t hurry up!"
If I think back to these things, I always think about...
...the incredible tiredness. That...
I thought I wouldn’t be able to take another step.
But we walked and walked and walked!
See where the policeman came out? That’s the place!
This part is the marketplace.
We’ll go there, okay?
Okay.
That was in the office on a night shift,
and telegrams were coming through.
I was deciphering them, which is a technique with numbers and figures...
Anyway suddenly the message came...
...was readable. And it said:
D27 leaving Benghazi
03:00 AM
on the next day.
And I couldn’t believe it,
because to begin with, it had been quite difficult to decipher
we had to use group after group I think it was 4 groups
when the things became intelligible,
or when you've broken that particular code,
but this time I went on doing eight groups,
and on the ninth group, this thing began to make sense.
And just said to...
...Joe Cooper who was the boss at the thing.
I’ve never seen a man, he sort of... As if he'd had a rocket blowing him.
Sort of went up in the air, and he said:
"My God... I think we can get them!"
And of course because it was about 4 hours away
and they were able to telephone or radio through to North Africa,
and tell the airforce there,
and they did, and they got the lot.
-They shot them all down? -They shot them all down!
And there was real rejoicing in the office.
Everybody danced around and we all drank some champagne in the boss’s room...
We arrived here and this is where we had to stay and we lay down on the ground.
And over there,
by the road,
there was a water pump.
That’s where we washed and cleaned ourselves up.
See? There’s the pump!
-There must have been 2,000 of us... -...who were forced to march to Germany?
Yes.
We set off at 6 o’clock and that’s when people started to gather for the market.
And then we slipped out from our lot and simply mixed in with the crowd.
Is this important?
-Were you scared? -Not really.
The whole thing looked so simple.
-You know? -Yeah.
-Because you didn’t care anymore, or...? -No! No!
We wanted to go home.
You knew that if they caught you, it’d mean trouble though?
The only choice we had was to keep going...
And after we came over the road,
we tried to get through the crowd as quickly as we could.
And we set off towards Komárom railway station.
We thought we were over the worst part...
-Wonderful! -Yes.
He wasn't a National Socialist,
he was fighting for his country,
out of patriotism.
What's this?
I don't want to read this out now!
Why?
Because he had nothing to do with this!
But...
Okay then, but this is not from him,
this is an official field post.
"There isn't any force or power in the whole wide world,
which could change
the outcome of the war,
England will be defeated!"
Was it written by Hitler?
Yes.
England will be defeated.
Well, it wasn't.
No, it wasn't...
We heard that...
...all those planes that had been shot down,
by me... my...
...were in fact... women and children coming back
from...
...North Africa, the wives and children.
Because the war was on,
one had to shoot down aeroplanes.
And the realisation was so awful.
I still can't bear it.
So I don't know why I'm talking about it,
except it actually happened here.
And it was...
...it was a terrible time.
You know, one would suddenly have this dreadful feeling,
you were responsible for masses of people being killed.
and here we’d been congratulating ourselves and thinking how wonderful we all were.
It even makes me cry now to think of it...
I can’t think of it...
...even now.
Oh dear...
Silly me...
stupid...
anyway...
Gosh, it's so strange being here...
...talking about it.
-Dear, I'm so sorry. -It's alright.
Thank you.
We heard a child shouting and we looked around.
It was a boy of about 6 or 7, and he shouted:
“Escapees! Escapees!”
And he ran off somewhere, we didn’t know where.
And then 5 minutes later, when we’d gone further,
a gendarme came on a bicycle and he stopped us.
And he said that we were under arrest,
and he was going to take us to the gendarme barracks,
and the next day they’d shoot us all.
And the next day,
they made us join the next group who’d reached the marketplace.
She's ready for the revenge indeed!
Granny! Shall we go and catch the boy?
Leave me in peace!
Don’t make a joke out of this, please!
We’re not going to catch anyone!
-What did you ask? -If she's ready for the revenge?
Yeah.
And she was like it's not about revenge?
Yeah.
Right answer.
-Right... -...answer.
-A true answer! -Yes, a correct answer!
-Correct answer... -...what you said.
A slap... would be the best answer!
Let’s go, boys! I’m shattered!
Okay!
Do you think...?
-What, sweetie? -Do you think we’re very stupid?
-Not very...
Not very? On a scale of 1-10, how stupid are we?
About 5!
So, Granny, can you recall the moment when your dad volunteered for the war?
We were playing in the garden with Mother,
as on every Sunday whenever the weather was nice.
Father had a lot of fun playing ball and other games with the four children.
On this Sunday, he did not play with us.
I can still see him pacing around...
...until my mother asked:
“So have you enlisted?"
And then he answered:
"Yes!"
...and we turned to Mother,
who sat there with a panic-stricken expression on her face,
that I had never seen before.
and she told us: "Father has fallen."
Stop here if you can.
I think this was the pool,
they threw the dead bodies into.
-The reservoir. -The reservoir, yes.
Yeah.
It was for putting fires out.
We drank from it, too!
It is fucking weird because imagine when you were in war,
it would have definitely been just like everyone was dying around you...
...and casual.
-...and so casual. -Really?
Well, especially for Lívia, yeah, everyone died around her.
I think for your grandma as well. I've never seen a dead body.
I think it is one of those things, you would get used to it so fast.
It's like you would get used to killing as well.
You would still go back to your wife and children and everything would be the same.
You’d just go to this place where you have to kill someone,
or go to the place where you see people dying.
With all these like mad megalomaniacs,
they are all just loving, caring family people.
-Are they? -Well, Himler was. Yeah, definitely.
I don't know about Hitler so much, he didn't have kids.
It's weird he didn't have any kids.
Probably because I think...
...he was missing a ball.
-It's true. -Yes, I've heard that before.
Is that true? I thought it was just English propaganda.
No, it's not English, it is certainly European. First!
Second, I think it's similar to like when you have a big BMW,
you’re kind of missing a ball.
-Yeah maybe I don't know. -Isn't it? You know.
Bumming it on the street.
Horning old people off in their little shitty cars.
Being Hitler is like owning a good BMW.
-Is that what you're saying? -No. I'm just saying that this...
...mono... megalomaniac behaviour, kind of...
All those people watching this film and have got big BMWs you're all missing a ball.
...you are all one step away from being Hitler.
...yeah, you're one step away from being Hitler, you fucking capitalists!
I reckon she's just sick of it, not that she hasn't dealt with it.
The connection to her not wanting to deal with her history.
I guess it is because of her dad dying and that whole huge trauma.
It's not just her childhood when she had this stuff.
She married a man, my grandad, who would scream in the middle of the night,
because of his experiences as a prisoner of war,
he spent 11 years in Russian captivity after the war.
It's mental! He was on death row twice and even got put in front of a firing squad,
which he somehow survived.
Have you ever thought about suicide?
No! Never!
But murder, yes?
Yes.
Well, I would have liked to have joined the lynching...
...after the liberation of Bergen-Belsen, when they lynched
a couple of really cruel so-called “capos”.
I would have happily joined in if I could have gone over there,
maybe I wouldn’t have been able to punch them.
-For mental reasons or physical? -Mental reasons...
To punch a person needs a special mental constitution.
Do you know that feeling in a dream when...
Yes...
When you want to do something,
-but you can’t... Yes. -Yes.
-Heil Hitler! -Hey!
-I feel great! -About what?
-We are in Hitler's land! -Hitlers Land!
Hitler's bunker is just here.
And we have just asked some Germans,
do they know where Hitler's bunker is...
And they were blasé, mate, blasé.
What did you learn from your grandma about your family's amazing past?
I can't remember.
You can't remember at all? Nothing?
No.
Fuck, it's hot, mate!
Don't change the subject!
Shut up!
Who's Mr. Müller?
-Who's Mr. Müller, Ruben? -Mr Müller is my...
...great-great grandad.
-So your granny's, Gudrun's grandfather? -Sick!
Yeah.
Who really was Mr. Müller?
As far as I know he was a...
...big, fat, smiley Bavarian.
What did you read about him?
I haven't read anything about him.
You haven't read any of the articles I have sent you?
-I don't want to... -Hm?
I don't really want to like.. Cause I don't think...
It is not my...
You know what I think about all that, Bolo.
Can't we just start on something...
It is just not the way to get into interviewing.
I'm just asking...
-I know... -It is nothing like...
-You know... -How about I say everything I know?
Okay.
Basically, Elmau-Schloss is like a big centre for...
...theology and this religion, this alternative religion that he created.
And he was a sort of great thinker,
religious thinker.
And lots of other great thinkers used to come there,
and...
...think.
Apart from theology, there was like a big centre for music.
Classical music and jazz music, with lots of Jewish jazz musicians.
-Oh really? -Yeah!
So he was hiding Jews. So he wasn't a proper Nazi.
-No, absolutely not. -He was against it?
He was against it, because he didn't obey the laws.
Yeah.
He was an advocate of the Judenmission,
a movement, which instead of exterminating Jews,
wanted to convert them to Christians.
But then also he was a big admirer of Hitler.
-Because of the... -...the greatness he brought to Germany.
-Yeah. -Yeah.
-I guess. -I guess most people were.
Here!
Where are you?
There. That was me.
We had to practice for hours until the small children had learned to dance the quadrille.
Then each girl had to recite a poem or a wisdom of some sort.
We were standing in a row, I was Grandad's dance partner,
so I had to start.
I felt so embarrassed.
"Ruben could you tell us what you know?" "No."
What the fuck?
Just imagine if it turned out that your great-great grandad was a Nazi.
What would you do?
That’s why he still feels... That’s why he still tries to avoid...
...kind of avoid the topic all together basically, isn't it?
Yeah, it is.
Do you reckon they don't talk about it at all at home?
I don't think so. No.
You don't really talk about horrible things, do you?
You try to talk about nice things in life.
Do you think that your...
...mum inherited that sense of guilt from your grandma, a bit?
For being German?
-I don't think so. -No?
No.
I don't know if it passes on another generation.
I think it probably does cause, I imagine, if you like start talking about the war
to your mum, she probably feels awkward about it.
Yeah, but I don't know if feeling awkward is the same as guilt, is it?
-It comes from a similar area. -Yeah.
Because I don't feel awkward at all.
You don't have a reason to feel awkward.
You don't have any reason to feel awkward, do you?
No, I don't.
-Exactly. -But you do still feel awkward about it.
No, I feel awkward about it because of the family.
Yeah...
I don't feel awkward but it does jar me, like how...
...when we're driving around...
...and there are constantly these Hitler jokes,
it gets boring, you know it just gets long.
I don't feel guilty for them.
No.
I don't know if young Germans do?
-They're extra careful... -I mean that is blatantly why
that many refugees have been let in to Germany.
-Because they feel bad. -Compensation?
Yeah.
-Shall we go up that hill? -Yes.
Cool!
One, two, three...
...nod!
I'm the only granny in the house!
The wonderful granny.
The police.
Officer, officer help me, help me.
I must tell you the truth.
Go in the dark corner.
And be very silent.
And the policeman will not find you.
Will not find you.
I will tell you if the policeman is away.
-And then you can come out and dance! -Play!
And we dance together.
And we will have so much joy.
Joy...
Jump...
Until we jump to the side.
It was an extraordinary time.
We were English, we were British and we didn't like the Fascists,
-and the Nazis. -Yeah.
But they were all around all the time.
Exciting...
Well, it was a very exciting time.
You know, we were very apprehensive because you realised,
that the Nazis were all gearing up for a war.
My father and mother decided to allow me to go to the military parade.
Whenever Hitler came to the street
the people went “Sieg Heil, Sieg Heil!”,
and at the moment when Hitler arrived in our sight,
my father quickly grabbed my hand
to seem as if he was trying to keep me from running away.
So he didn’t have to scream "Heil Hitler" then.
It must have been so awful for you, who weren't Nazis when you were sort of...
...having to be, pretend to be "Heil Hitler".
-It was really hard. Yes. -Terrifying.
I think...
...with your life...
...we all can be silent and...
...cannot...
...cannot speak any word if that.
It is so terrible.
We must be whole silent.
That's why it's so important that we eat together now.
For this reason it's so important that you are now sitting here at the table,
and enjoy dinner together.
Heavy topic.
It's cold.
Look, we're going into a tunnel.
One breath!
National Service
Born in a city of tower blocks Alcatraz without the rocks
Sent to overcrowded schools Beaten up if you broke the rules
And our mothers sit and cry Cause they know we’re gonna die
So we watch out for the boys in blue You never know who’s watching you
Soldiers wearing pin-stripe suits Want us to wear marching boots
Army life they say is fun Clear the streets of all the young
We want you to go to war And kill another country's poor
We are the class who fight their wars Sometimes steal from department stores
So they've invented a new state game Playing soldiers is the name.
Incredible, a plethora of things, aren't there?
Hundreds of things. Is there anything else you want before we leave?
No, I haven't got any money, darling.
-Thank you! -It's alright. Thank you very much!
Cheers!
Bye!
Zan!
We didn't pay for the hairspray.
Oh dear!
-We never paid for the hairspray. -No.
We stole it.
We are gangsters!
How awful...
Show me!
-You didn't pay for it. -No.
I absolutely forgot about it.
Where should we rob next?
The robbing is done for the day.
I now want to go home.
Which one do you want? Caramel or strawberry?
Strawberry!
The loving cup goes around.
Let's go then, darling I'm freezing.
Yeah, let's go!
As MI6 agents both Zan and my grandad, Halsey,
spent most of their lives fighting Nazism and then Communism.
It all revolved around the cocktail party,
where they're like coaxing information out of people.
I think she was very good at it. She went to acting school as well, like me.
There is a sort of very theatrical side to the family, which we all have in common.
Which, I think again, is sort of you are hiding from being your real self in a way.
You're not fully comfortable with yourself,
and it's easy to become another character.
We wanted to make the similarity between acting and spying.
Oh yes.
There is a certain amount of lying which is kind of the same as acting.
Yes. We were not actually lying... Well I suppose it is really,
pretending to be somebody else, taking on another personality.
You know when you just did it because you were told to.
And it felt extraordinary, because we left England,
and all the awful war behind. You know, we were going out to Egypt.
Going to a new world.
And I met Halsey on this boat, going out to sea.
And about three weeks later Halsey suddenly said to me one day:
"You know, I think I would like to marry you!"
On the boat.
And I was really surprised. I never thought anybody would want to marry me anyway.
And we were terrific friends.
Every day we met and we always found masses to talk about.
But the funny thing was, he never kissed me. He never did.
I just don't know, he had very old-fashioned parents,
who had been very Victorian.
He'd never had any girlfriends,
ever...
What was so funny was that he was going to have an interview with the secret service.
And I didn't say anything still about myself being in it.
And then he went along for an interview with the boss, General 'T', who was running it.
And then suddenly he saw me coming down the stairs, he couldn't believe his eyes:
"What are you doing here!"
And I said: "This is where I work."
"And what are you doing here?"
"Well, I'm hoping to join the secret service."
And then eventually he was told, he would be accepted.
Shoot, shoot, shoot!
I've killed the whole lot it is a massacre.
-Kill the communists! -I've got him.
-Who are you killing, Zan? -Everybody.
You're doing a good job!
Give me a high five.
There was a student exchange,
and I went to Geissen,
and they were waiting with supper when we arrived.
And they said how happy they were that I was there,
but the champagne went to my head, because otherwise I wouldn’t have said it,
but I said: “I’m not so happy
because I promised myself that I’d never set foot on German soil!”
And I told them why.
Then the headmaster of the host school
told us that...
...his two brothers,
died in work camps in Poland
because their father didn’t allow the three of them to join the Hitler Youth.
And...
...I felt ashamed of myself,
because I suddenly realised...
...that prejudgement isn’t any better if it's my prejudice,
and not someone else's against me.
The colonies, we were very proud of them. It was lovely.
You used to look at the map and much of the world was pink,
which meant you were British Empire.
And we were proud of our empire. We thought it was a really wonderful thing to be,
because we were helping people to become civilised.
I mean there was no question of feeling guilty about it,
or thinking, it could have dreadful effects on people.
You thought it was all for the good of the world.
We all felt that we were really rather better than everybody else.
Which is probably rather horrible of us really.
Did it ever occur to you to move to Palestine?
Me? Never.
I wouldn't even go there for a holiday.
I’ll tell you why.
Because for me nationalism stinks so much,
regardless whether it's Jewish nationalism or Hungarian or any other one.
I simply can’t stand it because I know what will it transform into.
How do you feel when you see such a uniform?
Well, it is part of my nation, isn’t it?
Yes.
And I know that the Germans...
...the Germans felt threatened by Stalin,
and I believe they were right.
Yes.
Because the people don't walk on a straightforward path.
And the English didn't walk on a straightforward path either.
Now imagine what you have done:
you invited three grandmothers to meet,
one of them an English woman,
who felt she was right, naturally,
like English people do in general.
But she also said,
the English brought culture into this world, or something.
Yes.
That is a little overbearing.
But she seemed nice and all.
Do you think that the Holocaust created anything of value?
Yes!
If you look at things of value like,
works of literature or works of art...
That’s one category.
But I also think that something happened in people who lived through it...
And I wouldn’t say that it did anything of value in them but the possibility was there.
And, in my own case, I'm certain that,
I would have been a much more superficial person
if it hadn’t happened to me.
I’d say that I saw the world in a whole new light,
and that...
new values came to the fore...
for me.
-I don’t know if that makes sense. -Sure.
And how do you think that,
our generation can preserve that?
I hope that they won’t.
That's quite hot now.
You happen to ask your gran that:
"How come your family have believed in it to begin with?"
And then the answer would have been: "Because it made sense!"
and that’s absolutely normal.
-But... -But they don’t do that...
No!
Because that’s built into them that it’s not alright.
But then... yeah...maybe.
Hundred percent...
None of them said yeah... we were like little... had little Nazi vibes...
at the beginning...
Did they?
Oh no, she said she loved the flag...
I've never ever thought about it like that.
It’s an inherited...
sense of guilt...
It’s not guilt in you now...
Yeah, but why is it hard then?
Yeah, why is it hard for you to...
-...to talk about... -...yourself with yourself?
Where’s that come from that I’m introvert?
Were you anti-communist or pro-communist?
She’s asking if you were anti-communist...
No, I wasn’t.
Yes, she was pro...
...pro-communist not anti-communist.
-Pro-communist? -Yes.
It was so difficult because in the West we were very anti-communist...
Not everyone!
The whole policy of England after the war was anti-communist,
they were frightened of the communists because they were very aggressive.
I think communism...
...has similar ideals to Christianity. At least in part, no?
Not in the Soviet way...
...the Russians were anti-christian at that time.
This system what you call the Communist Bloc,
was decided by the four superpowers.
The fact that we belonged to the Soviet Bloc
was based on a decision by Churchill, Roosevelt and Stalin at Yalta,
and for us to quit this...
But it's not about that!
It is about how you have experienced it. When did you lose your faith in communism?
You call it communism but in fact it was a socialist system...
But did that take place? Was it really socialism,
or was it much more of a dictatorship?
The one-party system is, by necessity, a form of dictatorship,
but we reassured ourselves with the thought that it was a new society,
and things would straighten out, and the goal was absolutely good...
...but the system wasn’t perfect.
I could see that the whole country was studying:
the young peasants, the young factory workers
were encouraged to go to school, university and to study.
It triggered social mobility on a scale that was unprecedented in Hungary.
And, in that large wave, I was a winner, too.
I studied philosophy and pedagogy and after finishing my degree,
I started working as a teacher. I felt so much at home at the school
that after a month I said to myself, as a young teacher,
that I wanted to retire from there, and I did.
So, in my terms, right up until the 1980s,
believed that the socialists system,
could take a human face and be a more just society than the capitalist society.
I believed that and many like me believed that, too.
...like Gaddafi or Saddam Hussein,
I know they did some bad things but on the whole they were like keeping peace
and now look at those countries, they’re all fucked up...
-So they were right then? -Well, I mean like it’s not right or wrong
it’s just a different way of doing it.
It’s like what everyone does. It’s always like there is a war and they’re all
the goodies and the baddies or Brexit. Is it yes or no?
Well it’s not as simple as that, it is more complex than that.
That’s why there is always endless mistakes and repeats in history
because people try and simplify what is really going on.
Has it ever happened in your life that you were convinced about something
and later it turned out that you were wrong about it?
I’m sure there was.
For instance, your husband who had waited for you during the war
and after I don’t know how many years you...
...when it turned out that your husband was unfaithful, you divorced him.
We divorced, yes. For example, that was one instance.
Were you disappointed?
Yes, terribly of course.
An Idyll, exclamation mark, exclamation mark to:
and it’s left blank but we know it’s to
Zan’s secret lover that we don’t know about.
One glance from your eyes is delight
But disdain to bestow it
One smile is enough to excite
And I fear that you know it.
This story must end where it starts Or what will become of us?
A tale of two passionate hearts And two passionate summers!
For passion is mellowed by time And love unrequited
Can blossom into rhythm and rhyme In the overexcited!
Wow...
I mean she was a player.
-She was a player. -I’m a player.
-You’re a player. Come on show us... -I can’t...
settle down with anyone.
Well, nobody knows that story except you.
I remember Halsey did tell me that he had been involved with a man called Richard
before he married me and I just thought: "Oh well that was a sort of little thing
he got involved."
I didn’t realise that they had quite such a long setup...
-Yeah -in Richard’s flat... In his flat...
...still, by that time I had children and I couldn’t do anything about it anyway.
but in those days you see, you could be put in prison.
It was a criminal offense...
We rather drew a blind on that thing.
It was a non-discussed situation.
Nobody ever talked about sex in the old days,
but we all knew it existed...
I think when he was getting married, he said:
''I’ve never been in love with a woman before...
and I’ve never had a woman friend...''
So no other man fell in love with Halsey afterwards?
I don’t know you never know... I mean he was in the secret service,
and he had plenty of opportunities​...
He was a very good husband and a very kind husband.
Of course, I’ve never told anybody in the family before, about it...
I wouldn't mind them knowing because now as I think they’re all old enough now
to take it, don’t you?
Oh, certainly, yeah.
Actually I was a child when we started going out, in fact I was 15
and I was 43 when we got divorced.
Basically, both mine and his life,
coming-of-age was formed...
...was formed by the same interactions.
That marriage was way too good,
too perfect for me to become involved...
...in an equally profound relationship again.
So this wasn’t a...
So you didn’t have any affairs afterwards?
You see, this is the thing I don’t want to discuss with you.
-But... -Yes, I had some.
Were you disappointed in men generally?
No, not in general.
No, I didn’t want...
...to live together with anyone.
It’s dreadful but I seem to have stopped being frank with myself.
I hide beneath a mock canopy of an unnatural morality.
I don’t think that I’m actually vicious
but I’m just not the responsible type, and oh dear
I must be if I’m going to be a good wife and mother.
I adore my spouse I really do
but nevertheless I know I could love lots of other men as well
and only that thin line of enforced respectability holds me in cheque,
and a desire not to make Halsey and Nico dreadfully unhappy.
Sorry, I just farted.
Where the fuck am I going?
I feel like I have been here before.
Another reason why I enjoyed ballet,
was that I had reached a very good technical level.
But I did not enjoy dancing in front of other people,
I did not want to be watched, I wanted to dance.
And that's why you abandoned your dream to be a ballet dancer?
Yes.
That’s what Grandfather wanted, he wanted the people to resonate in the music,
so that they could forget.
You don’t need to learn how to dance.
One can simply listen to music and start to dance.
This is kind of typical dancing, isn't it?
This is typical Hungarian dancing.
I do think modern dancing is amusing, everybody does their own thing, don't they?
Freestyle dancing.
How did you used to dance?
Well, it used to be foxtrots and things when I was growing up.
And you had a partner who you danced with.
nicht nur alleine wie heutzutage.
One, two...
And you twirl under his arm.
There, and than you join together again. Yeah.
How old were you when your dad died?
Seven.
How do you think it has affected your life, not having a father?
I guess I grew up a bit earlier than I should have.
Do you feel like you have missed out?
Yeah.
Big time!
Definitely.
I mean, definitely.
I've got issues.
That's the one.
I love the way you're standing on it, Merry.
-Is that disrespectful? -Yeah, it is. Massively.
-Is it? -Yeah.
Why?
It is just a thing...
Standing on someone's grave? Imagine!
You ain't been raised right, mate!
-Say that louder! -You ain't been raised right!
They told you, Mum!
-Shhh! -Gábor, Gábor, Gábor!
What question you were gonna ask him?
Are you still proud?
Gábor, are you still proud?
I was just gonna talk about beliefs in our generation.
I don’t believe in God and almost all my friends don’t either...
I think it’s very sad that you have this feeling ...
I think you have got a very strong sense of good and evil...
Really in your character, you just feel that you might not have.
I don’t think there is good and bad people. Although people are manipulated,
that doesn’t mean that they are bad. I could do horrible things, but
I can still change and become good again...
I don’t like to think that
I hope that they are not,
that people have got good in them and know what is good
and right and they would stick to that even if they were in an evil situation...
Look at what people did in Nazi Germany, there were people who were very good,
and resisted.
When the camp was liberated,
the "capos" were lynched.
I say this because if I could have walked,
I’d have joined them.
I never had to suffer like this and I don’t know what I would be like,
if one had the terrible suffering they’ve gone through.
But surely as Christians we believe that God suffers, too.
I could only envy those who have faith,
my faith has gone...
as if it never...
She says that she is jealous of the people who have faith.
How lucky we have been with the weather,
for our picnic at Seven Sisters.
Weren't we lucky?
-Understand? No? -No.
No.
It's so sad!
No-communicating Grandmas,
-Thank goodness for those girls... -Yeah.
...we were able to understand a little bit.
And then turn right.
Now we could do the same way that we did before.
The mission is: we gonna go to the kitchens, go around the kitchens,
then we're gonna come back and order a cup of tea.
-Who are you with? -What's your code name?
Agent ZagZig
Agent ZagZig. And what's the mission, Agent ZagZig?
We gonna go and get a cup of tea.
Exploration for a cup of tea.
Hold on tight!
This is exciting!
Speeding up things.
Let's go around the other way!
We hide from them.
What do you hate about your grandma the most?
I guess it’s just the slowness of it all,
they’re all so slow...
that’s quite irritating...
Why? You don’t have the time?
Yeah, I’m impatient.
I feel like I could be like doing something better...
I think getting older is not good, is it?
-It’s gonna be quite fun I reckon... -No...
I’m kind of scared of it...
Your confidence drops so massively as well.
Their confidence is so much lower than ours.
Because you can’t rely on you’re body so much...
you can't like... Things start like not working properly,
so you end up being very unsure of yourself, and therefore like...
unsure of a lot of things, you kind of like, need love more in a way...
But then it’s more likely as a child to be loved than as an old person...
-Are you scared of getting old? -Yeah, absolutely.
Is it purely sexual?
Partly... Yeah, definitely that’s part of it...
Sounds like it...
It’s good actually, it’s good forcing yourself to think about something...
-It’s good to think. -Yeah, it’s good to think.
Sex sex sex sex... Thinking...
Did you ever think you would end up in a home?
No never...
I never thought I would live so long...
-Yeah... -Just never thought about it you know.
But now I’m here, I’m quite content.
Who is your favourite friend here?
I haven’t got any favourite friends.
It’s very funny because people come and they go and some of they die you see,
and off they go.
Half of the people here can’t hear or can’t see so...
...it’s not terribly easy making conversations.
Is this a friend of yours?
It’s somebody else... I don’t know a new arrival...
-Can you tell the new arrivals from the old? -Well, I can see there is a new face...
And also the other faces you’re just beginning to get to know have vanished...
-Nothing’s been said, nothing is ever said. -Oh really?
Yeah nothing said. There is a kind of unspoken law that it’s not...
-That death isn’t spoken... -Which I think is rather a shame...
Quite frankly I would rather like to know what has happened to the person...
They take them out at night apparently.
very quietly you don’t hear a sound...
quite a lot of people died since I’ve come here...
Good morning!
Did you boys go to the cemetery?
Yeah!
Didn’t you get really soaked?
Can I switch this on?
Of course!
How was the grave?
Beautiful.
Do you want to be buried there, too?
-Yes... -But...
There’s a space for my name on the stone.
-Are you scared of dying? -No, not at all.
-No? -No.
If there’s nothing, there’s nothing, and if there is an alternative,
I think it’s rather exciting.
I don’t feel frightened.
Are you frightened of dying? Perhaps you are when you are younger...
I am, yeah...
Definitely...
well not so much of dying but...
No, I mean I’m afraid of dying but not death...
Yes...
I think that’s true, I’m rather frightened of being incapacitated...
like not being able walk or get feed oneself, or that sort of thing.
I hope that doesn’t last long...
Yeah...
But I’m not frightened of it. I’m rather bored with the idea of...
...of prelude.
Hello!
Hello, Lívia!
I can see you... you’re here.
-I am so happy! -Here you are.
-I am so happy. -We’ve become younger!
We’ve become younger.
How are you?
I’m alright.
I’ve heard that you will have an operation in the future.
Yes?
Oh yes, I’m having an operation in May.
You know, Gudrun, this is not a good way to live.
I’m in pain from the morning to the evening.
Terrible.
I can't do this any longer.
I am sorry to hear.
Let us forget all sadness.
And everything bad that has happened.
This one is going to you.
I caught it, it arrived.
Arrived?
Yes.
Wonderful.
They pop but then new ones come, again and again.
And then we also forget everything about the dreadful things.
Unfortunately, there is always something bad going on in the world.
And...
Please do not be sad.
How?
Please, do not be sad.
Yeah!
Serious is alright, but sadness not.
Okay?
Do you know that your memory is fading?
I hope it isn’t. Nobody has told me it is yet.
It is, a little bit.
Well, I don’t know...
Nobody has ever said anything to me about it.
-About your memory fading a bit? -No, no.
-No? -No, not that I know of, darling!
I don’t think I’ve got any dementia.
I mean not seriously forgetting things that really matter...
I haven’t yet come to that stage... Anyway...
And I’m now 92...
94...
94.
The nice friend in that party, who came from Hungary...
-Yeah... -What was his name?
Bolo.
You’re him?
-You’re the same man? -Yeah...
Oh really, it’s extraordinary that we’re back together.
Yeah, that’s him.
-Do you remember Bolo well from it? -Yes, I remember Bolo.
-Yeah -And...
-...and I would love to see him again. -He’s here.
I’m sorry. You’ve got a slightly different face now.
-And Bolo can’t come? -Hm?
Bolo can’t come here?
Bolo isn’t here, is he?
-Yeah this is Bolo. -Oh that’s Bolo.
Yeah.
I’m so sorry. You’re slightly different to look at.
What is my name?
Kito... I mean...
No, it isn’t Kito.
Your name is...
Meredith.
What is mysterious about my grandmother?
I guess it’s quite mean but when I first...
It was sort of like a treasure trove which I could delve into and learn from.
Whereas now I sort of feel like that treasure trove is nearly...
I’m not sure how much there is more to get. Now I sort of understand her more,
and now that has happened, I sort of...
I haven’t been speaking to her as much, it’s really quite strange.
It's weird. I feel like I know more about her then anyone else in the family.
My Lord, I would like to thank you today in a really special way.
She talks about death very naturally but
it’s all quite religious and so I find it hard to connect with it.
She thinks a lot about the afterlife, but doesn't think about dying soon,
or maybe I just don't ask enough.
She has got time to think about what’s happening next in the afterlife,
but not this transition period where she loses her grip on reality
and we have to start looking after her.
I reckon she's got a long time yet. She ain't going nowhere!
I don't know what I'll do when she goes, I'll be a mess.
Look at these fish. I’m really worried about them,
going round and round and round. They must be mad by now.
-What? The fish? -Yeah. Don’t you think so?
What is your favourite fish?
I haven’t got a favourite really. I don’t like any trapped animals like this.
It gives me no pleasure whatsoever looking at them.
-No, really? -You know they must hate it.
Yeah.
I think it must be like being in prison, stuck in the same place.
-Looks almost 2D, doesn't it? -What I hope they haven’t got memories
because nobody knows about fish whether they can remember.
Yeah.
Because if they can’t remember anything, they probably think it’s all quite fun...
they’re here for the first time.
You can only feel afraid of death
and ceasing to exist if you think that there’s something afterwards.
I’m not afraid of not existing.
But are you curious?
No...
-You’re not curious? -No.
I’m curious about what exists,
but not about what doesn’t.
And I’ve got a very strong feeling that...
I want to die well.
I want to die without leaving any of you with bad memories of me.
I was holding her hand and then...
...this was in the home, we were chatting away.
She said she wanted to have a cup of tea, so I just went out.
literally just out the door and said can we have a cup of tea,
to the office people who lived just out the door and then...
She had a heart attack.
Right then.
The nurse came in and said: "Do you want to say your last words?"
And I was just like: "What?"
And so I just went out there and...
...stroked her on the head.
And just said like:
"It’s all right Merry is here.
It’s alright, Zan, Merry is here. Don’t worry.
Merry is next to you." Because her eyes were already closed.
It was all like under a minute. It all happened like under a minute.
Oh, look this is a space for me.
Space for me.
Maybe like Mum, Dad and then Merry. I’ll be here.
This is my space here.
Hello, Zan.
It’s a nice spot.
It’s strange thinking that she’s under there.
In her mind she was peaceful.
She didn't really want to die I don’t think,
but I think she was ready to die if you know what I mean.
Hello, Zan.
It’s nice to sort of talk to them.
Yeah...
It’s more like talking to yourself.
She can hear me.
She can hear you. Don’t be...
She’s up there.
There she is.