e
e e
[Music]
oh
[Music]
oh
[Music]
my name is uh Brian Tilman I'm the
pastor here at Central United Methodist
Church and we're delighted to host Indie
Mass incarcerations uh event today and
so we hope that you feel welcomed here
um I also want you to know where the
restrooms are because we have quite a
few visitors so if you go through these
doors and make a left down the hall
you'll find a men's and women's restroom
there if you need to use it I hope you
find this event to be one that is very
informative and helpful for you as we
join in working together to end mass
incarceration I want to thank those
those who have put this event together
and on our end Pamela Perkins K you are
a fantastic leader uh for us in the
church and in the community and we're
grateful for all you've done to help put
this together and your team as
well so thank you so very much now Carol
I believe you're doing the prayer for us
is that right
oh can I go up there yes
[Music]
okay good afternoon everyone
afterno on behalf of our senior pastor
Reverend Dr Brian
Tillman and the central family we hope
that you know that you are among friends
and
neighbors and consider yourself home at
the church of the heart of the city with
the city of heart
my name is Carl D Sanders Senor I'm a
member of Central's Mission Outreach Mo
mobilization team of which we like to
call Mom
te as part of our Global impact
celebration it is our pleasure to
partner with Emi in mass incarceration
Georgia Network to present this film and
panel discussion on Prison labor slavery
by any other name as Central welcomed
you we pray that you will open your
hearts during our time together here to
focus on the impact of economic vulner
isation human rights
violations undermining competitive labor
markets along with destrution of
incentive in
incarceration and terrorization of
African Americans seeking full
participation in our United States
political
system and the pastor has took my last
my last note as where the uh restrooms
are so I'll leave it at that and
[Applause]
welcome good afternoon
my name is Ana Jones and I just want to
welcome everybody on behalf of the nmass
incarceration Georgia
network uh the Emi Georgia network is an
intentional Association of
individuals Faith groups
organizations Community persons who have
come together to affect positive change
in the areas of Youth Juvenile and
criminal justice uh you all know Pam is
one of our leaders and also I just want
to acknowledge Janice wave your hand
who's part of our planning
committee
so our vision of restorative
justice is inclusive of the whole
Community we you know for example how do
we restore persons who have been who
have experienced harm or been the victim
of some type of harm how do we restore
people who may have been responsible for
the harm how do we restore the community
that experiences whatever the event was
and the downstream effects of what's
going on and most importantly how do we
get in front of all of it how do we
reduce these things so that our
community can behold and can
Thrive and so when we come together as a
network and I want to just invite
everybody here we meet monthly usually
the fourth Monday and it's virtual and
again it's not a organization in the
sense it's people who come together from
all different backgrounds different
organizations who want to support each
other in this
in this important work that we're doing
and so as we come together we do it to
educate our community to communicate the
importance of all of our roles everybody
has a role no matter who you are to
facilitate opportunities for people to
get involved to advocate for reform for
change for justice and to participate we
participate in each other's initiatives
local state and National Justice Reform
so as we come together today it is our
prayer that we're going to leave here
all of us even more encouraged more
determined to do what we can to make a
difference in advocating for persons in
our community especially those whose
lives have been negatively impacted by
the juvenile and criminal legal systems
and we encourage each of you to
participate in and support the nmass
incarceration Georgia Network and other
like-minded efforts and let's make sure
this is something everybody here can do
let's you're here because you're
interested in what's going on let's make
sure we all reach out to somebody else
who is not already involved or who may
not even totally be aware so we can all
do something thank you
[Applause]
good afternoon everyone my name is Carol
Tucker buron I'm a member here at
Central let us all go to God In
Prayer oh gracious and loving God we bow
before you seeking an end to mass
incarceration Lord God you know the
weight of all the woes that exist in
this
world and we come today to place it at
your feet Lord we are called to
action and in this moment we seek the
wisdom and the guidance to move forward
actively to end this involuntary SL
slavery yet again that has reared its
ugly
head Lord we have brothers and sisters
who have been
incarcerated many wrongly but yet and L
yet Lord we are all
human Lord we seek to lift up the
humanity that exists at every level in
this earth we need change so in this
prayerful moment Lord God we ask that
you send your Holy Spirit presence to
move to move us to action to bring about
the change that's necessary to change
all all of our lives for Lord if one
life is suffering we all are suffering
whether we are aware of it or not so
Lord God in this prayerful moment we ask
that you touch each and every one of the
panelists here today those that are
actively on the front lines out there
for chance change Lord we just ask that
you continue to lift them up on every
side and continue to move this journey
forward to Freedom these things we ask
and we ask them in your name and in your
name alone amen
um Lisa don't think I see
Lisa see I see okay so
hello hello
everybody um thank you so much for being
here uh we are are sorry that Lisa was
unable to be with us today to um perform
a spoken word but with that we will just
move ahead right amen and so we will be
hearing from Alicia Wilson on the the
impetus behind the film that we are
going to see today and that we will be
discussing and so without further Ado I
present Malisha Wilson to introdu
the thank you is it on I know I got a
big M can you hear me is it on okay
there we
go oh yeah I loud um but I first wanted
to say thank you uh Pam and Ana and the
rest of Emi for uh hosting this
screening it is a very important topic
um that needs to be discussed and also
welcoming of the the Family Central the
church family has been very welcoming um
and that's very rare um I don't know if
you've heard my story or not but I am
formally incarcerated and when I got out
of prison I think I got out on the
Thursday and the first place I went to
on Sunday was to church and I stood up
and say I'm Malicia Wilson I just got
out of prison is 3 days ago and I'm just
the first place I want to be in the
house of the Lord and went through
service and when service was over with
and they say thank you for coming but
don't come back um that's happened three
times I went to three churches that told
me because I had a felony um they felt
uncomfortable with having me in the
church and so this was a very good
experience to be welcomed by folks um
until I found a church home I am
currently a member of
Ebenezer um and I actually
teased pastor warock and I said I go to
all these good churches they're getting
into social justice and they're doing
some stuff you gonna mess around and
lose me um but I I love the fact that
you all have a Ministry um that's doing
that's doing this work and I think a lot
of people miss that point whether you a
Muslim or whether you are a Jewish
synagogue you cannot be truly to me a
person of faith if you're forgetting
that there's such thing as Matthew 25
that talks about doing for the least of
these and you're doing these kind of
things and so um I just want to say
thank y'all for doing this work and for
your pastor um to be you know allowing
that to be highlighting that and to be a
part of it because a lot of folks want
to hide especially in the black churches
we all either all of us or somebody know
somebody that them been locked up so I
don't understand why it's something that
we are continually to to deny and be
shameful of between mass incarceration
domestic violence sexual harm going on
uh addiction abuse you know neglect of
children all this stuff goes on so these
are very important topics that sometimes
tends to upset a lot of people but uh we
need to talk about what is hurtful and
what's harmful and some of the the hurt
and harm that we're doing ourselves so
thank you for having me out to have this
conversation um I always tell people to
do a disclaimer before we go I know a
lot of time we do church and they do
prison Ministries and stuff and we're so
used to certain terms but I would really
really really love it if everybody in
the space if you haven't already to use
humanized language when we talk about
people who are incarcerated um I know
we're used to saying prisoner and inmate
and Exon and convict um but those are
not uh really good words to use they can
be triggering to a lot of folks um and
it takes our Humanity away from us and I
think particularly this is why the
slavery laws are still here because
we're not seen as people so I am a
person who is formally incarcerated I'm
a woman with a disability I'm a person
who served time in prison so when you
say that I'm a person you you see as
humanity and I think a lot of time when
y'all watch news and when you see the
violence and prisons and you see the
women being raped it's because they
don't see us as people they see us as
inmates and prisoners and convicts and
so that's something I just wanted to say
too as we're talking there's Lisa as as
we're talking um but thank you so very
[Applause]
much Miss Lisa hi do you want to come up
okay wonderful uh ladies and gentlemen
Lisa yman who is from Statesboro Georgia
so she came a long way to be here with
[Applause]
us and she's one of our steering team
members on in mass incarceration Georgia
Network so and and all of us are non
chapter member that's right that's right
right and we're all part of the Justice
Reform partnership so we spend a lot of
time
together good afternoon everyone I
apologize for the lateness GPS and the
internet felt me today
but I am
here okay the um piece that I'm going to
read is called treasure hunt and it's
speaking of
justice so Justice truth have you seen
Justice I feel like a scavenger hunting
savagely digging through the M of lies
and hypocrisy a tangled web woven etched
engrav on America Souls Justice you must
must be a National Treasure hidden
folding up and tucked away wrapped in
the system hey have y'all seen justice
justice why you keep coming to a strech
and halt sounding like fingernails on a
board with chalk see look at this blood
on my fingertips from digging for you
justice give me a clue where can I find
you could you please tell me how to get
to the Hall of Justice seeking peace and
justice the justice of the peace but I
keep bumping into grief trying to find
you justice you must be a national
treasur I'm falling over sorrow trying
to find you justice while tripping
through loopholes sweeping under the rug
you must be a National Treasure guarded
by unhonorable guards searching for you
is like searching for odds Grand Wizards
I got to find you justice last time I
saw it was never mind hey have y'all
seen justice justice where you at you
were supposed to be there be here for me
a long long time ago stop standing me up
I've been fighting for you justice why
you keep deserting me ignoring my
desperate cries stifling my pleas for
you justice hey have y'all seen justice
justice will you help me find peace
peace of mind Justice I Know You Hear My
Cries calling out for you you must be
National Treasures the world's best kept
secret under lock and key Law and Order
hidden in vaults under vaulted Silling
seing fate hey have y'all seen justice
justice I see you over there with truth
justice bring me my peace Justice
remember we had a date why you keep
standing me up I was over there in the
courty yard waiting while you they
deliberated deliberately erasing truth
from the cases with Injustice and black
and white neatly tucked inside their
briefcases cases closed making you
elusive where where were you justice did
you flee oh they had you they had you
held you captive really in a corner wait
you said muzzled not able to speak up
for me blindfolded not able to see past
their manipulation and deceit what hands
tied behind your back not able to fight
for me ankle Shackled together not able
to stand up for me you know the sign of
Injustice is deafening hey have y'all
seen justice justice you hear me calling
you Echoes bouncing off silence why you
keep ignoring my cause Justice don't you
run away from me again not this time now
when you going to speak hey have y'all
seen justice justice I see you over
there dang every time I call you justice
you start acting kind of strange for one
reason or another you become deaf mute
and lame disabled stay a safe distance
from my pain Justice I see you hiding
from me buried beneath indecencies CAU
up in politics drowning fight for your
life like I'm fighting for my life
Justice hey have y'all seen justice
justice where you at where were you when
I couldn't breathe where were you when
the truth was being Twisted while
corruption was bringing me to my knees
where are you justice without you
justice there is no peace hey have y'all
seen justice justice there you go over
there with Liberty birds of a feather if
I had wings I'll Fly Away free up some
head space get away from this disgrace
and melee you see the facts just don't
add up and more and more the bodies are
sacking up how much more spilled blood
going to flow from this cup it's running
over hey have y'all seen justice justice
there you go oh now I see you didn't
come here for me well looks like another
murderer is going to go free while
stealing my treasure and Burying my
peace Savages hey have y'all seen
justice justice I know you hear me
calling you thank
[Applause]
you that deserves another round of
[Applause]
applause that was excellent thank you so
much um at this point we want to make
sure thees cotton and Janice Walker are
on our team and so they have they were
the lovely ladies who checked you in got
you in here and gave you materials and
also an index card uh that that kind of
pinkish index card for you to write your
questions on so um once the film
completes uh thees and Janice will
receive your cards for the Q&A part of
the of the program so um you guys want
to raise your hands remember the lovely
faces um so don't forget to fill out
your card do you need a pen okay if you
need a pen they will
give okay all right they'll be sure to
get you an index card and a pen okay
thank you so much thank you
thees and with that do we want to show
the film yeah we're going to the film
but before we K the film I did want to
acknowledge the um all of us are none is
a National Organization that's composed
of about 90% uh formally incarcerated
people but there are allies and family
members um and it's free to join and we
work on human and civil rights of
currently and formally incarcerated
people this is just one of the campaigns
that the Georgia chapter has decided to
work on at this time um some of the
issues that we will be going for with
working on with Probation and Parole and
um you know pick points um and helping
with other issues that deal with mass
incarceration this is one of the ones
that we are working on since about eight
other states have already worked on
passing it or it's on their ballots and
so we just thought this time was now cuz
the goal is to try to get it on a 2026
ballot here in Georgia um and but we
have to actually uh change the actual
State Constitution which is completely
different than putting it on a ballot
and so I just wanted to acknowledge the
Georgia chapter if all of us are none
chapter members if you're here if you
can stand and raise your
hand um don't be scared don't be scared
thank you so if you're ever interested
in joining thank you all so much for
coming if you're ever interested in
joining we usually meet monthly but
we've been taking a couple of months off
but we're going to be starting back
um we're waiting to hear we got a
meeting with representative Nika
Williams October November um and so
after that we're going to kind of really
go get back into the virtual meetings
once a month probably going to be back
in December or January um but that is we
meet virtually and we're going to start
getting out and really doing some work
because really the goal is to get this
into law um in Georgia and so we can go
ahead and watch the movie it's about 14
minutes long um it is some of the
information is all the information is
informative some of it will really make
you mad um some of it will have you
saying wait a minute for real so yes and
then we do have folks here that can that
has had personal experience with it um
as you can see with my shirt I am a
retired slave um and I didn't really get
to be a slave too much because they
actually threw me in solitary
confinement because I refused to work
for free um and because I could not work
because of my disability um but yeah so
it's about 14 minutes but I think it's a
very engaging 14 minutes and you're
going to find some information that you
did not know in the uh documentary I
have been asked um by some funders in
California to do a part two of it um it
did Premier in Hollywood in October
2022 and so the goal is hopefully within
the next year to work on this second
part uh to get it done so all right
thank
[Applause]
y'all I think to back here raise your
hand Nikki she's actually in the film
when she start saying there's no heat
that's the 13th Amendment bans slavery
with the exception of folks who are
incarcerated okay the 13th liit is what
empowers the
longevity in the process of slavery
slavery is abolished except if you've
been found guilty of committing the
crime so if you've been found guilty of
committing the felony you no longer are
an American citizen you are now a slave
and when you call the Department of
Corrections they will tell you in no
uncertain terms check your 13th
Amendment it's legal you get convicted
of a crime then we can work you prison
is a business it's a business whether it
pays people or not it is a booming
business in this country incarcerated
people uh provide over 11 billion of
services each year and that is from
working in Plants that's making
Furniture lingerie working in call
centers and they're working as garbage
collectors they work as CL clerks in the
courthouse the city using um laborers to
clean the buildings I see them at the
fire department fighting forest fires
they're doing landscaping on the the
highways um a lot of the water treatment
plants they clean up parks and rigs in
the conditions with no heat any
conditions in the summertime with no air
you know um I mean the conditions were
deplorable and the more you look the
more you see they don't know our Braille
translation services happen our our our
license plates Masters is for our our
public parks and for our higher
education all the the paper products an
enormous amount of things people really
are unaware I see them walking around in
the government center nobody supervis
them they got the strip suits on they
painting they doing Plumbing I mean they
I mean they just that's their job okay
but then when they get out they can't
come and wait for the city to get the
same job people are not going to the
factories because they got a new Factory
called a prison prison slave labor runs
Columbus they had to lay off a whole
bunch of
workers in order to replace them with
prison slave labor certainly folks are
being um employ unpaid to do jobs that
other folks could be paid to do right
and there are a lot of those jobs be
more jobs available on the outside for
people that's not incarcerated because
if you got got 100 people doing a
working from inside a prison outside
that's 100 jobs that people that's free
can have cannot get that job yeah when
you go and apply for that job they say
we're not hiring why would they pay you
$30 an hour when they can get somebody
to do it for free people don't
understand people say oh I support
incarcerated people's labor but what
they're not understanding is that
contributes to unemployment on the
outside myself I've been in prison
before I I was in the federal prison in
Estelle South Carolina and I only made
like $12 a month but we built
forklifts for the military and most of
these jobs if not all of them when they
get out they cannot get jobs with those
same positions so now you you going to
try to get employment from the same
people who employed you for free and you
can't work for them and they said why I
can't work for you because the state law
says you can't work for me if you got a
fail me so why doesn't that law apply
when I'm incarcerated it's legal this is
Mayor Teresa Tomlin she said it's
legal and I said just because it's legal
it doesn't make it right if people are
working they deserve to be compensated
and where you are be where you are
living whether by choice or by law
doesn't affect the fact that you are
doing labor that deserves compensation
yes are you aware that there are some
folks who have actually refused to work
and get punished they get their phone
calls and visitation taken from them or
get thrown in solitary when that's why
about to say in the feds if you don't
work you go to the go to the hole it's
called a shoe so therefore it's not
optional it's not volunteering no no
it's mandatory so when you're made to
work for free that is slavery why is it
so sensitive when we hear terms like
slavery and don't correlate that with
incarcerated people the first part comes
with us not actually engaging in
addressing what this country has done
historically and currently and so people
are defensive yeah um the second part is
I think people really don't know people
really have no idea how much labor is
done in the state of Georgia through our
correction systems they knew that you
can't you couldn't continue to call
people
slaves they said but people will accept
if you call him a criminal basically
it's convict leasing which is an old
thing with they basically say hey we
talk to a construction worker the
construction work going to give us
$10,000 a month if we send them five
convicts they going to pay us$10,000 we
going to make the five convicts go over
there to work convicts ain't going to
get paid but we just got paid 10,000 you
utilize them for years while you're in
the institution again you're good enough
utilizing while you're institution those
skills are great to assist while you're
there do those things Mone make money
push out the numbers you need so that
the state looks great
go out and give them the diplomas assist
them all but then when you get home you
can't get
employed many of these many of these uh
towns these townships the little small
hickville
locations would not have booming
economies if black bodies were not
taken from the inner city and the bond
money being moved from the inner city to
these little small hick towns and
building the prison and building a new
high school and building a new housing
and building the shopping plaza and
building the economy the sensus helps
you get parking lots they help you get
accessible uh all these different things
and you're telling me you counted me in
a county that's why you see a lot of
these prisons in these small poor
counties rural counties cuz that's how
they make their money out your speed
tickets off the prisons and they're
counting those 5,000 people as residents
to say hey we need more handicapp
parking spaces we need a recreational
center we need this and we need that
you're counting these people they are
counting Yep this is but they can't
benefit from the fact that you know
they're out able to go to that same part
that just got built off of their numbers
with their kids most of the time when
there is refusal on banishing different
systems or um adding programs money is
the driver so what about the money is
going on that they're so hard pressed to
not let go of it they have stuff like
that and they say we need people at the
Civic Center we just had a flood we need
people to come clean this road or we had
this why are they not saying we need to
hire 15 people that I here at the Civic
Center we need to pay 20 people to come
and do this why they not doing that and
why they choosing to use incarcerated
people cuz it would cost the money
instead of making it would make it would
cost them money and not make the money
and the goal is to make money and the
goal is always been to make money also
it's always to
keep the city in a position of dominance
here in Columbus I know trash went from
two days to one day a couple years ago
and last year uh the mayor was cited in
a interview that he did with the news
that people the residents were
complaining because trash had been
backed up and folks were complaining why
it wasn't been picked up and they asked
them what was the reason why the trash
wasn't been picked up and he said well
we don't have enough prisoners I.E we we
got a short of the slaves
and so I immediately felt like when you
say we have a shortage of
slaves the the result is we got to
figure out what we have to do to get
more slaves to get out here to dump more
of our trash when I went to the license
M license plate making factory what I
was told was that folks who were chosen
to work this job were chosen because
they would be there for a long
time now if it's a training job if it's
intended for you to be able to
transition to another
job then wouldn't you want folks for
whom that transition is going to happen
wouldn't you want as many folks to be
helped as you could they should be able
to just throw transition right on into
that job because obviously it's a job
because they had them doing it so why
could if I'm doing it right now and I'm
getting out in six months why can't I
just transition and I that's my job when
I get out it it's making too much money
for it to make sense right now and and
and the the criminal legal system itself
is is based on a it's a money you know
the IRS whilea even has something on
their website that makes a notation that
just because a person is incarcerated
does not exempt them from paying federal
taxes federal income taxes if they
qualify to pay them and the Department
of Education has a notice on their site
that lets people know that they don't
get an automatic deferment just because
they're incarcerated and not making
money from paying those student loan
payments so I want people to be full
well aware that we have federal
regulations that make sure we're still
paying on things that we owe on even
while we're in carceral systems slavery
systems in the state that don't allow us
to make money if you took away what the
what the I hate this word but the what
the inmates do inside of facilities that
would open up so many doors for so many
community members who are without jobs
once you become a ward or of the state
or the feds there's no way for you to
get
reintroduced into society as a regular
American citizen they can work you for
free because you don't have the the the
rights to defend yourself you don't
that's why when you get out you got to
get your right to vote back after a
certain time you got to get your right
to bear arms after a certain time and
that's if Georgia decides to give them
to you they don't come back
automatically voting rights right so
some people say restoration of Rights
but there's another step there right why
are you losing your rights at all now
people who have lost everything
everything because of
incarceration are are the people who are
the most willing and able to commit to
jobs when they come out those people can
be committing to those jobs when they're
inside the method doesn't match what's
actually happening right if it were
training we should see the program
focused on transition and that's not
what we're seeing this decide had
basically
created mental health problems in our
community the degree to which we
criminalize and incarcerate folks it
really fuels the cycle of poverty in our
state you know it really really does we
we are taking resources from people and
and putting them into a system that only
makes things worse for those people and
then everybody that those people you
know is associated with we got to go
deep into the DNA of this whole system
because we cannot fix this Sy system we
have to create our own system and system
steel sharpen steel system sharpens
systems so as we build our own system
that's going to be the primary thing
when they come out they got to be a part
of this system that we're creating in
order to end mass incarceration we have
to have an employment component people
being being able to contribute to their
communities and reap the rewards of that
is how you build sustainable communities
period how can you prevent crime if you
do not give people the tools and
resources to be able to better their
themselves and come back to a
contributing member of society and part
of that resources is a job we have to
create a a post uh incarceration
re-entry system that actually guides
them into uh a a a trade or a profession
to change the charter to allow someone
with charges that's part of it um to
change the city ordnances and state laws
to allow you know people with records to
actually work for the government I mean
who they are already working they're
already working for the government paid
so why not have different amendments
made to keep them working the more
States we get who are willing to say out
loud we don't support slavery here we
are going to change at the state level
the more push we get for the federal
common sense says this is why our crime
rates are high this is why our
homelessness is high this is why our
communities are the way they are because
we're not giving people what they need
EXA to succeed and when people don't
have a job you're going to continue to
have high crime and to to actually train
somebody under to use somebody under the
guid of saying is for training and then
when they get out because they have a
felony they can't get a job
[Music]
[Applause]
um I just wanted to say because I know
we mentioned in the um just a few
statistics um
over 12 billion that's what it be
dollars worth of services and products
are made by people who are currently in
prison the state of Georgia makes over
$4 billion dollar a year and
over 80 million a year if I'm not
mistaken are stolen in wages and what
that means is a lot of folks don't know
but in Georgia you do not get paid
zero uh there is one location I believe
that does pay women um I think they get
they work 12 to 15 hour shifts they
leave with maybe a120 Cent for the day
80 80 cents of that one 120 leaving you
40 cents 80 cents goes toward room and
board as if that's something room and
board and they have to pay for their
lunches so imagine working somewhere for
14 hours a day and you've only made 40
cents that you can put on your books
mind you a bar of soap in prison could
be Ren you as much as
$3 um uh ladies feminine product maybe
about six of them will rent you about
$12 when we can go in the store and buy
20 or 30 for $6 so everything is tripled
uh in prison you even have to pay you're
a diabetic you need your medicine in
your shot that's
$5 you need to go you got cancer you
need to go to chemo that's
$5 uh oh I'm sorry you out here working
on our trash truck and your arm got cut
off oh okay well once you go to the
hospital and they menend you up come
back to the prison the doctor going to
see you that's
$5 but you out here dumping their trash
and mind you in prison you cannot
unionize not only can you not unionize
you really don't have any rights uh if
you die you can't sue a state because
your loved one was killed you can't sue
a state if you were wor if you are on
the outside and you're working somewhere
that's around Asbestos and you see
people who are on the outside got masks
and stuff you don't have it because
you're not really human you're
incarcerated so you we don't worry about
your breathing in this stuff so these
are some of the issues that is the
problem with this and it's not the fact
slavery is wrong even when they say
involuntary servitude is still slavery
you can call it what you want to call it
it's slavery when people are working and
and forced to work for free and are
punished when they refuse to work that
is slavery prison is the punishment oh
people they should that's okay I ain't
worried about it they should be punished
prison is enough punishment being away
from your family and having to share a
room with seven other musly people and
having to use a toilet in the same room
as people that's the punishment but when
I was sentenced I was sentenced to a
period of incarceration away from my
children away from my family I was not
sentenced to go to Amazon and work
12-hour shifts while everybody else
makes $30 an hour and I get zero I was
not sentenced to make lingerie for
Victoria Secret or furniture for Ikea or
let me see who else Starbucks coffee
cups but when you get out Starbucks
won't hire you um let's see Verizon you
got ver who in here got Verizon if you
didn't call Verizon whoever's answering
your phone might be
incarcerated and not getting paid so
when people say the issue with this
campaign is not about oh we want people
to get paid we want to end it period
but if people were getting paid as Lucy
stated you still have to pay taxes while
you're incarcerated you still have to
pay your student loans while you're
incarcerated not to mention if you went
to prison for something where you have
done somebody wrong and you owe them
restitution for kicking in your door or
whatever damage they did to your
property you ain't even getting that
back because they're not getting paid so
victims on the outside don't even know
that these folks aren't getting paid so
you want to know how am I getting my
money and people say well why do you why
do you think it's wrong it's wrong
because it is wrong but it's wrong
because if you are out here and you're
trying to find a job and you want to go
down and be a mechanic for the city of
Clayton County they're going to tell you
we're not hiring mechanics well it's not
the fact that they not mind hiring
they're not going to pay you when they
can get a slave to do it for free so
this creates unemployment on the outside
and then when people say well it's not
really wrong because they shouldn't have
committed a crime again prison is the
punishment but the thing is it is being
incentivized there are these things
called lockup quotas that means we're
going to build a prison with 5,000 beds
and we're going to build it in fton
County these are how lockup quotas work
we're going to build this prison and we
expect for our beds to be filled with
100% capacity
so when you tell somebody that if you do
not fill our beds you will owe us let me
see the state of Columbus Georgia gets
175 off each person in jail fton county
if I'm not mistaken gets almost $400 a
month if that person is older to age
than 50 or have diabetes or cancer or
HIV you can rent up to $5,000 a month so
in the instance we have 3,000 beds here
we need them to be filled 100% if
they're not 100% we're sending the Bill
to you so what fton county does now is
they're incentivized to get those beds
filled to keep them from having to pay
so you're not locking people up because
they're wrong and they've done wrong to
society you're choosing to say well I
know this lady stole a pack of chicken
we really should be putting her on
probation and giving her resources to
help her from why she's stealing chicken
but you know what we got about 300 beds
we need to get filled up at the jail so
let's get her jail time so that's why
it's called lockup quotas it is
incentivizing you to lock people up mind
you and it also they claim it saves the
community money when they don't pay
people in prison labor but to me when
you say how much are you really saving
the community if you've got unemployment
you've got mental illness you've got
domestic violence you've got um we just
got off a call with a state
representative the number one budgeted
item that's costing the state of Georgia
entirely too much money is welfare food
stamps benefits so if you would give
folks jobs when they get out that would
decrease that line item that budget item
if you would give people jobs when they
get out they could get their own
children out of foster care and that
would decrease the second number two
budget item in the state of Georgia that
cost taxpayers
dollars now I just found out on the
radio last week we talked about it in
the state of Georgia they're literally
charging families to pay for foster care
which I did not know this there's a lady
now in Georgia who's suing the state of
Georgia because her children in foster
care and they sent her a bill so she's
expected to pay them but you took my
children and it's the same way with jail
you locked me up but you send me a bill
telling me I owe you for court fees well
you shouldn't have locked me up cuz I
ain't got it so is is the same way where
it's driven through money so if it was
like hey we just doing this because
people need training so they can
transition and get into a job when they
get out then people wouldn't be so mad
about it but the only reason you are
manufacturing and housing and w housing
folks for bodies is for the sole purpose
of getting around the 13th Amendment
that says it is legal to have them as a
slave long as they got a felony so let's
just give them a felony and now only
does we get free labor now they can't
vote so we want that that that solves
another problem we can keep them from
the poe so I just want to throw a few
names out there when people say oh what
these folks that they working do all
kind of work in brunwick they work we
work as
firefighters work in the work in the
courthouse some some people actually
work as uh data clerks in the courthouse
they're putting your information in the
computer Verizon Ikea furniture it is
over
1,400 corporations that make money and
use incarcerated labor just to keep from
paying people wages and we're dealing
with the same thing the news that just
went out with Waffle House um you you
paying people $23 but I used to work at
w house and you forget that FK have to
wash dishes people have to take from
cleaning where they're not actually
getting tips so technically you just had
a dishwasher for $2.13 an hour which is
labor slave labor basically so these are
issues and it kind of and I started this
because I'm wondering why do people get
so mad when we hear about children
working in factories underage or when we
heard about this whole thing in Bron
people were using uh Hispanic immigrants
out there working and say and we have no
problem going to Alabama or right here
in Georgia or in Louisiana and seeing a
field full of black in picking cotton
with a white man on a horse with a
shotgun and people say well that's not
slavery cuz they ain't in Chains it is
the same thing if you close your eyes
and you you're not seeing the the the
you're not seeing the um blue what you
call them thing them blue jean overalls
and you might not seeing them with the
straw hats and singing them old old
negro spirituals but if you look and out
of a h 100 men in the field you might
got three or four white men sprinkling
there cuz they get in trouble too but if
you see 75% of the folks in the field
picking
cotton with a white man on a horse with
a
shotgun that's the same picture from
1800s and something and if you took off
running you either getting shot or if
you say you know what it's too hot out
here I ain't working no more you get
punished so if it's involuntary
servitude I should voluntarily be able
to say I don't want to work without
being punished but that's not the case
so um that's that's all I want to say
and we have some uh retired slaves in
here you if you have been formally
incarcerated you are forced to work for
free and we ow we are owed some money
y'all raise y'all hand I
am I
am all us are old
wages they don't care if you old you see
what in Alabama Alabama with like a 6%
parole rate
they're literally
refusing parole and they're doing it
there in Georgia they're denying people
parole calling it an Institutional
need this person been in prison 20 years
30 years they didn't deal what they need
to do they really should go home but we
need some more we we need them to still
be cooking we still need her to be the
cosmetologist do our hair we still need
him to work on the police cars as these
a mechanic we still need this person to
work on that so we can't let them go yet
they are literally denying people parole
so they can keep them as slaves that's
not what the system was made
for
so thank you so much wsha thank you
thank you thank you I want to bring up
Reverend Dr Ana Jones as
well so if you know one of the things we
put in the um registration you can't
change what you don't
know you know you can't fight for change
about something of which you have no
information no awar aess and so that's
what this is about and that's what we've
been trying to do for the past several
years with the in massive conservation
Georgia Network and uh Ana is a
co-convenor as well of Emi Georgia
Network and so and also an ordained
Deacon in the United Methodist Church
Elder Deacon which one Deacon thank you
all right there too many levels y'all
got to help me
out so um but Ana also has run uh
operates an organization that helps
Women in
Transition and so thought that this
would be a really good conversation to
have understanding both of the
backgrounds that you that you have um
and something you said whilea earlier
when you when you talked about the
furniture and the
corporations the furniture at the new
judicial Nathan Dill judicial
Center was built by persons who are
incarcerated and there was a great news
feature on it but those those persons
didn't get paid for building that
wonderful furniture that judges will sit
in they are excellent pieces of
furniture but they were built by slave
labor also in forite Georgia when Tiff
College converted into the the carceral
system the college becomes the carceral
um headquarters but the furniture if I
recall that article correctly the
furniture in the executive conference
room was built by those who were
incarcerated and so the very persons who
hold their your life in their
hands that's the furniture you're
building
for where they make decisions about you
you're building furniture for them and
so I just it it it gives a whole new
meaning to when they you know had the
grand opening and the ribbon cutting and
these the people who will never be able
to walk through those doors freely at
that time are
building the furniture so I just when
when you talked about corporations that
just really stuck with me because we
what we don't know we don't
know that's why I said just likening to
um sex trafficate yeah where you have
someone who has their sexual property
and they're loan it to someone where
they're giving it to that that man or
whoever's trafficking them for money and
you take that body back we get so upset
when we hear about sex trafficking it's
human trafficking is
wrong incarcerated labor is the same
thing it is the same thing I am taking
Kevin and you're going to give me 30,000
for this project that needs this bridge
built okay I got 10 Kevin we're going to
send you them you give us a 30,000
that's trafficking no matter however you
want to see it is the same way but
people try to put nice faces on it and
call it prison punishment uh involuntary
servitude it is slavery and it is human
trafficking you're getting paid off the
labor somebody else is doing so that is
why I want folks to understand if you
can get mad about sex trafficking you
should be just as mad about um prison
labor labor trafficking yeah and so Ana
yeah I was just going to add what you
were just saying there
if uh the funds that the Department of
Corrections received if it was really
used to really help the uh persons
perhaps people would think differently
but it's called Uh the department of
corrections but really it's the
department of punishment that's what
happens because as you said it's not
really helping and preparing people to
be successful when they leave because
when you get out it's like you have to
start the V many of the same companies
that you were doing uh the free slave
labor for you're not even able to get a
job again absolutely so just briefly uh
for the past 20 24 almost 25 years I've
worked with women who are incarcerated
transitioning back into the community
and really helping the most important
thing is really helping uh people
helping the women to really recognize
and claim and accept who I am you know
we all have unique gifts and what
recognizing and accepting ourselves and
being able to use them that's the
important thing and it's important to
engage people of Faith uh in this
process because you know people go to
church and you know we talk all you know
the stuff we see in the Bible but part
of what I've also done over the past 20
years I've participated actually in some
research projects with Emory University
researching um with different churches
and Faith communities and their uh
interaction with the whole prison system
they say they have prison ministry and
the the truth of the matter is um the uh
they may go into the prison periodically
to preach a sermon or do a service and
that's good but in terms of really uh
walking with people and being there with
them throughout forming relationships
that's what makes the difference is when
you form relationships and I guess my
appeal to people here now is that we
really we really think differently in
forming relationships because I think
probably everybody in this room has
somebody in their family their extended
family their Community has been a victim
of the criminal legal system and yet you
come to church and nobody wants to talk
about it this is what I have found or
people who come they either feel shame
or there's a taboo and so it's important
for everybody here to really be open and
to share with others that's how that's
how we can make a difference it takes
each person just talking with the person
that you go to Bible study with or that
you you know sit next to but really
being open and for our churches to
promote that that's what makes a
difference because people need a
community for
support amen thank you both so the
question is thinking of it along the
moral and
spiritual
path if
slavery was deemed to be
immoral why are we okay and have been
okay with what we call prison labor I
want to say something about that real
quick that's the other thing
um unfortunately just got to put it out
there like it is with this country as we
know was based and built on the backs of
of slaves and and after slavery was
legal legally abolished it was never
fully the the mentality was never fully
abolished because unfortunately that was
the foundation of this country so if
just knowing history after slavery was
abolished uh a few years after the freed
uh people who were enslaved started
prospering then we started instituting
um all these segregation laws and Jim
Crow laws again a setback to put people
back and so you fought through that and
uh for freedom and then we uh have
lynching and and you've got the kuks
clan and other organizations throughout
our history every time we've made any
progress in changing the laws in h
providing Freedom there's always a
backlash so then we had the civil rights
movement and people march for rights and
we got the you know got rid of
segregation and and legally and that is
when all of a sudden we start seeing the
rise of uh incarceration and and drugs
all of a sudden drugs start flooding
into our communities and so we got to
put people in prison and we started
seeing the real focus on 10 strikes
you're out so it's been the history of
this country unfortunately uh
slavery has really never gone away uh it
has never really gone away and this is
just another form of it but we have to
continue to move forward to do what we
know is
important and I and I think it helps to
uh and when I was doing my interviews
and I was actually standing outside the
Walmart and wanted to actually interview
a lot of the folks that were coming
through were black and I say well you
know you love to do this doing an
interview uhuh because they ought to be
working you know they they should make
them work and it was people that look
like me that feel that now if that
rooted out of the fact that they've been
hurt by somebody sometimes it's like
that but then I think a lot of it is too
you don't really know what's going on
and I think why it's so easy for people
to just look at it as slavery for one we
don't see the mama Moses is back in
there where people are out singing it
doesn't look the same cuz now they're
out cutting grass not everybody's
picking cotton for one for
two um like Jerome Jerome went to prison
when he was 16 and uh in adult prison at
16 and served 10 years all that time was
in the kitchen everybody ate his food
was no problem but when he got out and
wanted to get a food truck said he
couldn't get a food truck they made him
hard to get a food truck for him to
actually get a job to take care of his
wife and his children so now he is very
successful food truck on him but he said
it perfect in there he
said they don't want to consider this
slavery but when you say they're a
criminal people tend to look at it and
say well they deserve it they did some
wrong to
society I don't care what a person does
in society you reading in the news every
day about somebody that got stabbed a
woman and got raped in prison um you
want to call your children today you got
to come in in the closet with me and do
a little something with me this is what
goes on inside prisons this is not why
people are being sent should be sent to
prisons to be your mechanics or to allow
you to be abused why is it that when we
see this on the news and say well you
know somebody jumped on 18yearold boy in
prison he got stabbed 32 times why do we
look at that and we're so desensitized
and say well he was in prison he did
something wrong do you know that 94% of
the people who are in prison are coming
home so if you treat people a certain
way in prison it's not about if they
coming home they coming home the
question should be how we want them to
be when they come home we should want
people to be healthy we should want
people to be whole we should want people
to be compassionate people we want
people that when they see somebody hurt
they lean and help a person
but when you deal with people who are
being traumatized and abused they're
going to come out as abusive and
traumatizing of other people hurt people
hurt people so and when they're being
treated like this in prison and come
back home and you wonder why they out
here kicking in folk door why they in
here they don't know how to they like
they ain't got no home training they
ain't cuz they learning from the folks
in prison yes and so this is what it is
we call people a criminal and say they
deserve to be like that nobody deserves
to work out on and if if any of you
picked up some of the papers I do have
them where you're sending folks on the
side of the road a lot of times they're
out there 8:00 in the morning sometimes
7 8:00 at night and all they've gotten
is a dry baloney sandwich no mayil and
if the baloney sandwich ain't got mold
on it a room temperature bottle water
and a brown Apple that is not enough
nutrition for anybody to survive off of
that's getting out there but then you
got folks in prison now where down in
Texas they hit a record high a couple of
years ago 120 something deg inside of
the prison no air and three and four
people are dying but it's like okay well
they shouldn't have been in prison in
the first place over 6 F over 40% of the
folks in prison haven't even are
innocent and well how they innocent once
you go to prison you've been convicted I
was one who was later exonerated because
94% of the people who go to prison took
pleas people take pleas because they
ain't got enough money for it a lawyer
or they're just tired or embarrassing to
their family so they don't want that to
be all out in the news so some people
take please there are innocent people in
prison and even if a person is not
innocent they do not deserve to be
abused because it is the Department of
Corrections which ain't correcting
nothing the Department of Correction
when they take you on they're taking you
on with the fact that they're supposed
if you're diabetic you're supposed to be
giving me my my medication there are
folks in there right now with diabetes
who they refuse to give them their
insulin who does that you have women in
prison right now who get monthly cycles
and cannot get tampons and pads who does
that your mama and your sisters on the
outside get it what all of a sudden they
don't get a cycle now cuz they in prison
it does not make any sense folks who
were getting chemo on the outside with
cancer go to prison they're refusing to
give folks chemo or if you see a 70 year
old man being jumped by four or five
young people you just standing in and
watching that cuz that's not your
granddaddy but that's somebody else's
granddaddy that's somebody's Daddy but
they don't care as long as you pushing
out them numbers you getting them
t-shirts made you getting them license
plates made you getting them Victorious
secret draws made they don't care do
what you're supposed to
do and this is why they're incentivized
with bu you should never have it where
more people are in prison and schools
and schools are being built right
absolutely yeah that this is the other
thing to people once again and church
the whole
concept of forgiveness which is a basic
principle uh of all faiths not just the
Christian faith of all faith of
forgiveness um people deserve
forgiveness if you sent to prison and
you've done the time and you've already
heard what that entails when you come
out they need a community to welcome
them and to help them and walk alongside
them on that road and that is where we
come in people of faith and that's
what's so important and that's why we've
got to stand up and support this
movement to end the type of treatment
because as you said we're the ones who
have to end up trying to help folks as
they're getting over the trauma of
what's happened in prison so that's why
we've got to get involved basically and
I actually outside of the work that I do
here you know I work at the southern
Center during the day but I also
remember my own business and I do
trainings with places of worship and the
prison Ministry training and and and the
question that comes in and I get this
all the time is well we've been doing
prison Min for 30 years what are we
doing wrong why we can't get any members
why our church not growing so when I'm
sitting and I'm talking about probably
because as you go into the prison to
pray for a person and say you're extend
in love you calling them convict going
in the door or well that's what the
prison say they say we can't call them
the name you can call a person their
name you know you don't have to do that
part of the other problem is their
prison ministry in name that's it two of
the churches that I went to and was told
to leave had been coming to the church
they had comeing to the prison so I'm
like what are you coming to the prison
for you just for show but if you're
coming to a prison and you've been doing
it and you're doing your prison ministry
and I'm sitting here and Pamela tells me
you know what's wrong Pam I didn't see
you you looking different than you was
last Sunday well you know my mom passed
or I'm about to get out of prison I'm a
little scared to get out or whatever
whatever don't be like okay it's time to
pray y'all you know going on with the
this is a person and if you have been
coming to the same prison for 10 years
15 that means you have built
relationships so why would the next
thing not be when Pam tells you oh I go
home in two weeks the next thing out
your mouth should be anybody coming to
pick you up so somebody from the church
can come pick you up you got what you
need so when you come and you coming
with her a little welcome bag her
favorite kind of snacks a Bible and an
invitation to the church these are our
service times we want to see you there
if you want if you want to come there's
no reason for you to have been going
into a prison as a prison ministry for
20 years and your church growth is
stagnant You' have had 3,000 members you
could have had you've been going for 20
years at a prison that has 3,000 members
you you should be at a point now where
you done had to outgrow the church but
then it's that same mentality oh they
good enough to go inside the prison but
we ain't trying to have them in our
house that is not how you do that that's
that's not how you do that because it
don't take but one check for anybody to
be
homeless people do some strange things
when they hungry and ain't got nowhere
to
stay and if we look at the news lately
some of these correction officers that's
been doing dirty sitting in the same
celles next to the same people that they
have been abusing for years we got a man
up in Mak ran for City senate or
something last week caught him for
stealing $4 billion or something $4
million been embezzling so part of it is
again that whole thing of seeing people
as
human I'm good enough to see Kevin and
wsha while they in prison but we don't
want them in the church same thing why
we do unsheltered people I've gone to
several churches and an unsheltered
person will walk in from the street yes
the stench may be horrible but he could
have been anywhere but he chose to come
to church on a Sunday and you see that
person and sit down and folks
scoop or will tell him he's got to
leave as opposed to welcoming them to
the
church showing them love maybe giving
them some access to resources so when he
come next Sunday he got on Kevin's old
suit it's a old suit but it look good
and new to him now you got somebody
that's coming every Sunday that's saying
I don't know about y'all I lost faith in
my God but let me tell you about a new
God in this church they welcome in they
welcome y'all into to that's how
community and fellowship does and you
cannot do that with without including
people that come home from prison
there's no way you could do it we
wouldn't even be able to live half the
bricks that made through Georgia was
made right here in Atlanta at the what
with the chattah huchi brick company
that forced labor of men women and
children and we walk around and we just
take advantage of it every day to know
that folks are doing it and they're
holding on to it so bad they do not want
to let it go because it make like Jerome
said it makes them too much money look
at what happened with the bail law that
just passed now if you bail out three
people a year you getting a misdemeanor
they trying to put you in jail for
bailing our
folk and the church yeah the church so
this is cause
folks we don't need folks this is why
people ain't getting uh education in
school in prison this is why they don't
want us to get re-entry in prison where
it should actually start in prison
before they get out this is why they
don't want you to know how to a resume
when you get out cuz the goal is not for
you to get out and stay out the goal is
for you to get out and come
back
yeah yes ma'am that's what we're about
to do that's so have you had your um
your questions your index cards we want
to collect that and start having uh a
Q&A and while we are collecting your
questions thees and Janice are
collecting your questions um something
that you said triggered triggered
another um thought in my head if I can
bring it back but um when we talk
about the church being the place of
safety place of
sanctuary um a place of acceptance a
place of
welcome I
remember participating we were
presenting at a conference in Augusta
and it was on mass
incarceration and one of the faith
leaders who had a a pretty prominent
Church in that area
and they had a prison ministry which was
the choir would go and
sing but he never went and when the
question came around have you ever been
to the faith leaders who were gathered
there he admitted and I I appreciate
that he was
honest he said I'm too afraid to
go and so the question is how can you be
the spiritual
leader when you're more afraid than the
members in the church at least the choir
members are going how do you lead
I mean what what do what does it take to
Le to have those to have the courage to
Le the courage to be present and what
does that say to that congregation it it
does it says a lot to me and I can
remember my grandama she's she's very
old school um and she say you know black
folks today ain't like they used to be
back in the day and she's right on a lot
of things um Mar Luther King was a was a
minister uh molm X was a minister to a
lot of folks so when you have
ministers who are not
um not willing to address s issues I
think it cripples the church because you
have people who are actually sitting in
the congregation who are hurting um when
you don't want to talk about certain
things um and I think when you say you
are afraid of going into the prison
what exactly are you afraid of I mean
it's not like you going down actually to
the sales you know you are in a room
that you didn't even pass in the doors
but it speaks volumes when you bless you
when you
say um which we get all the time we
really are for you know and I have to
call employers on it uh we're in a
nonprofit organization that connects
people with criminal records with
resources jobs and stuff and we're
really for Second Chances Miss Wilson we
want to hire your people that just can't
um have a felony that's um within seven
years and I'm like well you not really
for Second Chances because if John just
got out on a Monday he need a job now he
can't wait seven years to get a job you
know so it's a lot of it is just
unrealistic we say we want to be
Advocates of something but to really
truly say you are Advocate you're doing
the work and so I teach this this class
about what does it mean to be a
Christian for while it's a verb being a
person of a faith to me is a verb that
is an action you can say all day long
that I'm a Muslim that I'm a Christian
I'm a Buddhist but if you ain't doing
what that book is saying doing you just
talking it you have to be a verb be a
make your faith a verb that when people
see you they see you doing stuff and
according to the book you don't have to
always let people know what you're doing
either when you at here making plates
you don't have to let people know you
make PL cuz I I'm not I'm I'm a I'm a
baby Christian you know but I thought it
was somewhere in that book that say when
you're doing something you don't have to
always take pictures and let folk know
what you're doing that's good ain't that
in the Bible somewhere okay that what I
thought so I might not quote it right
cuz I'm a baby Christian but I do know
it's in there but I also know it's
supposed to say you supp to take care
when uh uh children that their parents
you know the husband die it's your job
to go take up that slack to help you
supposed to be doing what you're
supposed to be to Matthew 25 something
do for the least of these yeah that's
what you're supposed to do when you feed
the hungry that's right so that's what
you're supposed to be doing and that is
this is an issue so a lot of folks when
you're talking about politics even
though they say you supposed to have SE
separation of church and state almost
every president every time I turn around
they got a preacher somewhere behind
them because they know preachers have a
big influence and it just baffles me
when we were going through the Civil
Rights and that's what my grandma she
said every time you turn around we was
going through civil rights and we was in
Montgomery trying to ride we did the
Montgomery Bus boyy it was preachers
coming from all over and she was like
they were white they were Asian they
were coming from all over but they don't
do that now and I don't understand why
they don't do it and she as a 84 year
old woman does not understand why the
faith community does not get involved a
couple days ago a woman was out here in
Clayton County went to court been
telling or not Clayton County
sping County been telling them folk for
years that her ex-husband was
threatening to kill her had a
restraining order she went to court they
asked her she asked them to walk her out
because he had already left she knew he
was going to kill her cuz he didn't say
he was going to kill her spot and count
of told him well we just we don't got
the capacity to walk you out of your car
do you know that woman got in her car
yesterday day before yesterday he walked
up and killed her the church ought to be
somewhere now talking about this is not
something we going to put up with
with the fact that this woman went and
asked for help and did not get and she
was fail these are people that we pay
every day to protect us the church
should have been speaking up when George
Floyd was choked to death the church
should have been speaking up when
Brianna Taylor was killed in her room or
Mar arbert all these stuff that's going
on the church should be standing up for
that because a lot of times people don't
even hear nothing about the politics or
the news unless they hearing it from the
church and it's not saying you have to
sway it from one right right or left but
the fact that you even mentioning it you
know some Churches don't even have
social justice Ministries or Outreach
Ministries or to educate on these type
of things so this is really good that
we're having this conversation and
hopefully it will go further than this
um you know and we ought to be
embarrassed cuz Alabama had it on their
ballot two years ago to end slavery so
if
Alabama passing a law to end slavery
Georgia should be able to do it you know
so when you give people their autonomy
back and doing what they need to do and
that's our goal it's going to be harder
than just getting a regular bill passed
cuz you have to go through getting
something ratified and actually changing
the Constitution but actually we could
shut this state down just like they did
in Alabama them folks Alabama lost
almost $8 million in 4 months when
incarcerated people in Alabama said we
ain't going to work no more and them
folk did what 6 month later they slapped
it on the
ballot that we're going to end slavery
so honestly if you could shut it down
because because they answer cell phones
for Verizon and making your MacDonald
cup Lord know folk got to have their
Starbucks coffee if everybody that was
making money out of Georgia and
incarcerated people said we ain't going
to work Walmart was show enough crash
you know so these are the type of things
that we need to really consider oh yeah
it's punishment but what if it was your
daughter that went in there right you
know your child that went in there and
Georgia now is number one at sending
children to life without parole right so
you got think about that absolutely and
let's so we have our CS thank you U
thees and and and um and Janice so how
important is it I'll start with Ana on
this one how important is it to include
people with lived
experiences within your
Ministries well
absolutely um because otherwise we're
just talking about it you know you're
just talking about what you heard and I
think it gets back to what I said
earlier it's forming relationships
because that's what makes the difference
once you form a relationship with a
person then you know it's one thing and
I guess with our
ministry because we have a lot of
programs that you know want to help
people maybe you want to feed people or
you you do you know provide clothing or
you as she said you go to the prison and
you give a a service or something and
that's fine but that's one way but once
you form a relationship with someone it
changes your whole perspective because
now it's
two-way and now you understand where
they're coming from and they understand
where you're coming from so that's why
it's very important to include persons
within directly within any whatever
Ministry we have who may be impacted who
have the experience and that's a uh
important foundation of our faith is our
experience because then you you feel
comfortable once you know somebody
you've gotten to know someone that can
change your whole perspective so yeah
and because representation matters you
know when you're sitting around and
you're watching TV shows and everybody
on the cast is white sometimes
representation matters when you see
people that look like you I think they
making a new Barbie doll now that's in a
wheelchair and things like that so stuff
like that matters so it's it's mattering
the same thing as this you'll never go
well you used to but nine times out of
10 if you're going right now to a drug
rehabilitation inpatient Center almost
everybody that's there has been on drugs
has overcome drugs why because they are
better at helping the folks that's
coming in so if I'm going somewhere and
I'm talking about how I've just Tred to
overcome rape trauma why do I want to
talk to a man I want to talk to somebody
who's been there and that same thing I'm
also a survivor of domestic violence I
don't want to talk to a man about this I
want to talk to somebody who says sis
you did good you came out just like I
came out this how I did so
representation matters so when you're
coming to church like I did and I was
going to several churches and when I
finally saw I going to church and they
was like well this so and so so with a
prison ministry and I would ask have you
ever been locked up and they be like no
you ain't got no children been locked up
no that was my question like what you
doing in the prison
ministry you ain't got nobody else in
the church that been locked up
that can help you run the prison
ministry well yeah but we don't allow
people uh with felonies to lead
Ministries or we don't allow them to be
on the ushering board so they okay to
come in but we not good enough to to Le
any Ministries that is you're doing it
backwards because if you have a um like
one Church uh uh they said they do um 12
step
program we all know folks in the church
drink and have issues
but you got the person leading the
12-step program has never gone through a
12-step program but you've got two or
three other folks in the church that you
know for a fact have not been shameful
of it to say that this is what they
struggle with and you haven't welcomed
them to say you know what you a better
experience at this I don't know if it's
not the ego that not wants to get
satisfied
but if you have space to make space for
people with lived experience on any of
your Ministries
that's the best place to go to other
folks with that
experience thank you thank you both um
you mentioned something while Le
actually Segways into this next question
um can you talk about impacts on a
person incarcerated who has a
disability and no rights in prison
versus rights on
outside well I will say as a person who
went to prison um disabled I went when I
first went in I was about 600 lb I had
to have a
back surgery had a hole in my spine and
uh it is very hard so as I went in and
got
processed um which is a whole different
problem because I was strip searched by
men um and already a a a survivor of
sexual trauma already you know and I was
strip searched by men and already made
to feel bad about my body as I was
already doing but automatically so when
you think of solitary confinement Pam
what do you think solitary confinement
is for who do you think that's
for it's well when they say they
throwing somebody in the hole according
to what they say is that somebody who's
not being cooperative somebody who's a
threat to other people who's a threat
well it was automatically she on the
woner she going to
solitary I was thrown in the hole
because I had a
disability um and while I was there
there was a woman who had lung cancer
there was a woman who had ovarian cancer
and there was two or three people that
had diabetes all of them were denied uh
one one girl actually died in custody
because they said well she doesn't need
her insulin but once a
week if she's suppos been taking her
insulin every day on the outside what
makes you think she's only supposed to
get it once a week on the inside but she
didn't have no money on her books that's
y'all fault you you shouldn't you should
not be accepting folks in prison if you
can't take care of them uh so it is very
hard but I also want to say when you get
out it's not like we magically get
rights too when we get out you still
have to fight for stuff there are folks
right now who've been out of prison 20
years 30 years who cannot get housing
because they got a felony from 30 years
ago
like
how when is enough enough you know so
I'm I think this was she's like in her
60s if not 65
66 so she just got housing a couple of
years ago but for 30 years you deny her
housing because of something she did 30
years ago but if you had a baby at 15
you don't want to be 60 years old and
somebody talking about you had a baby at
15 or how You' have been married seven
times you know and that's the only thing
that constantly the punishment does not
end so you having a disability doesn't
mean anything they're going to work you
too if you got on the outside um and
that's what I was I actually was
punished not only because I had a
disability they w't be bothered with me
but they said no she can't be here at
this facility shipped me from one
facility to another facility and when I
went to that facility they was like uhuh
she can't come up here she can't come
here with a disability cuz she got you
know she got to work and I was like I'm
not working for one I can't physically
work and I'm not going to work you know
I'm not for free anyway and so I was put
back in the hole but you are not you
know you the sad thing about it is not
the CEOs it's the women that's in there
those those are the ones that's saying
let me help you with this W you need
help in this sh that is where the
community comes in so that's why I say
some folks I haven't been locked up for
12 13 years and I'm still sisters and
friends with them to this day so you
don't get the compassion you are blessed
if you have somebody that said hey
somebody I mean they literally got folks
dying in prison and parents ain't even
told about it they're calling to the
prison looking for visitations looking
for phone calls your child been dead two
months ain't nobody told you nothing but
it took your s
to say I'm going to call his mama but
when you they find out you did the
calling now you in trouble because you
didn't went and told them right so
you're literally punished in prison when
you try to speak out you're not supposed
to have cell phones in prison everybody
knows that but we would not know what's
going on inside if people did not record
some of the stuff that goes on in prison
and yes it's very hard to see but the
way people with physical disabilities
are treated and mental illness is
absolutely ridiculous I had never really
it never really surfaced to me about how
folks with mental illness was treated
until I heard last year in the news
about the young man in Atlanta that was
eat up with the bed bugs because he was
mentally ill you don't do folks like
that and they automatically throw people
in mental illness so right now let's say
you already have a mental illness and
you might have a mental illness and
sometimes people with mental illness use
substances to help with the mental
illness now you locked up and they
automatically throwing you in solitary
confinement you in this little bit of
small room with just one roach to talk
to now that's just compounding your
depression worse they make it worse and
then they get out here and want to know
why folk don't know how to act in
society and act in public yeah so you
don't it's no difference you're disabled
they sometime give you some leeway but
for the most part disabled folks are
treated just as bad and just as worse as
the other folks cuz right now in Alabama
I mean 80y old people sitting over there
in their wheelchairs with cancer still
in Alabama because they Alabama's just
horrible warehousing
bodies thank you thank you um something
that's actually very timely because
we're in that season uh we have a
question of what do you think about past
incarcerated past citizens who have been
incarcerated losing their right to
register to vote or is this a true fact
it is a true fact you can't now let make
it clear for folks who are educating or
who may be
canvassers people say you go to the door
hey I just want to make sure you ready
to vote or whatever oh I can't vote cuz
I have a felony oh okay well you have a
good day and you walk off don't do that
you can vote in Georgia with a
faing you just cannot be on probation or
parole whether you owe fines and fees or
restitution so just imagine how many
people out there who've gone to prison
with felonies been 15 20 is and they
haven't voted because somebody done told
them you cannot vote in Georgia with a
felony that is a lie you can vote in
Georgia as long as you are not currently
on probation or parole so the question
is not if you on do you got a felony the
question is are you currently on
probation or are you on parole well I
owe restitution that's not the question
are you on probation are you on parole
if they say no they can vote so me
personally I don't feel like the right
to vote should ever be taken
unless your charge was specifically for
voter fraud you did something at the
pole or you did something like that but
you killing a person you out here you
know stole the pack of potato chips
whatever has nothing to do with vote I
mean you wouldn't cut somebody's hand
off for uh rent a stop sign that's not
that the crime don't fit the punish what
is it the punishment don't fit the crime
so taking somebody's right to vote again
goes back to the 13th Amendment stuff
because when that got in all these the
slave owners was in the history like
wait a minute they the end the slavery
oh Lord what we going to do who going to
do all stuff who going to watch our
children who going to do this they were
losing their mind so they had to figure
out ways to get around the law so they
started these thing called Black Codes
that made it a felony to walk uh without
a walk uh walk without a cane they make
what without your papers without your
papers they made it a felony to walk on
grass they made it a felony to sell corn
so they did anything to throw to give
you a felony because now if you got a
felony you can't vote so now that's how
you take the right to vote so I don't
think the right to vote should ever be
taken and there are two states which is
weird and oddly enough that they're the
two whitest States what is it Vermont
and New Hampshire that allow people to
vote while they're in prison and if you
heard through the through the film while
you're in prison you're still counted in
the censes so I don't understand if you
can Count Me In American s US Census as
a citizen how is it that you taking my
right to vote as a
citizen also real quick with the voting
even if a person is not able to vote now
we should still talk with them because
they will talk with other people that
they know and and the the key about
voting I'm just putting a plug in is
everybody needs to reach out to whoever
is in their uh environment no matter who
it is it's important just to spread the
word and encourage people and you can
vote in jail you can vote in jail if you
are in jail for M demeanor if you went
to jail even if you had a felony in your
past if you're currently in there you're
not on probation for that felony but now
you didn't got caught because you stole
a pack of potato chips at the store and
you're currently in jail for a
misdemeanor you can vote in jail you if
they don't allow you to actually do
inperson voting where they have uh um
some counties actually have ballots you
know it's a voting place they can do
request an absentee ballot in the jail
long as they are not there serving time
yeah they might have said you going to
put me here on a felony but the question
is have you gone to court and been
convicted of it yet no I have not you
can still vote so if you're talking on
the phone to your nephew and he and
there get his like say if you could vote
who would you vote for well you know I
don't like so and so because you know
they they really for um mass
incarceration you know they you know if
you really look I don't know if y'all
invest but I I I invest I love me some
investing a lot of these folk got their
money in uh Investments a lot of these
folks have they're investing money in
those phone companies that's charging
you could really spend about $8 on a
4minute
call a lot of those folks invested in
those companies that's why they need
that there that's why they is is driven
when they actually have money into the
prison system Banks like Wells Fargo
which I hate have Wells Fargo but I'm
I'm moving it soon Banks actually have
money invested into prisons they're
loaning money to prisons so a lot of
this stuff is not ending because these
people figure wait a minute now if we
end this it's going to mess with my
money so you just always have to look at
the money right always follow the money
and so with that want to just put one
one last little thought uh well it's
actually thought it's a fact that um the
Georgia corre Department of Corrections
actually has a corporation called
Georgia Corrections Industries GCI GCI
and that's an actual
Corporation and so there are people
there are persons who are incarcerated
say I'm an employee of
GCI because that's the corporation
that's loaning you out yeah to do the
work so when you say Department of
Corrections h no no no we don't but you
have a you have a branch that's the
actual overseer that's the only word I
can think of that's the new PL overseer
and the CEOs of the new overseers right
and so um with that I know we are short
on time we're at 3:44 and we were Pro we
do have a couple of uh we have Miss
Eloise esans who's going to come and
give us a a word right she looked at me
like she didn't
know she stretched her eyes at me you
have any more questions that we have
yeah we have no no I'm just saying we
make sure no no but we we're going to
yeah right respond to this CU we Ty
these up and make sure that we get these
out and if you make sure that you if you
didn't register but that you gave us
your email address legible email right
leg thank you the legible email address
so that we can get the responses to the
questions we didn't get to uh and also
we'll be sending you the materials and
also the links to all of us are none and
and some other information so that you
can have all of this in one place um but
with that we do want to have introd as
we prepare to close out today but I do
want to say thank you to I'm sorry thank
you to V let give her big big big some
love thank you so much for having
me
and great
work yes ma'am okay okay yeah as we're
getting prepared to close out well first
of all we just thank everybody for being
here today and hopefully something
um I know a lot of you here are already
involved that's why you came but that it
was something that inspired or motivated
you to do something different or to
reach out in a different way but I want
to invite up um Miss Eloise Edmonds and
Kevin weeks who going to just help close
us out with a little creative moment
something to help send us on our way
come on up
okay let me get over there
[Music]
okay just walk away and just leave these
people like this I meant to tell you I
meant to tell you I'm
free I'm free they let me go they let me
go they let me go they let me go I fre I
am
free to do
what where where's my
family where's my
support where are my
children yeah yeah I'm
free the same problems I had when I went
in that is those are the ones that I
have right now
mental
problems nobody likes me nobody wants to
be bothered with me I'm dark
skinned I was 3 years old and my daddy
said I was the ugliest I can't say
anything
here free to do
what I don't have
a nobody likes me
nobody likes
me so why am I running around
talking and who are
you why are you looking at me first of
all how you doing how am I doing how you
doing I'm
not talk to me help let me let me help
you you talk my name is Kevin weeks and
I'm Justice impacted as well
and maybe you and I can come to some
type of understanding where I can be
able to help you I can't even barely
hear you maybe I can help you help me do
what what do you need help with
everything okay let's start first of all
first of all first of all do you have a
place to stay no okay let's start there
not even here no I can be your brother I
can be a new family let me help you I'm
just as impacted when I came home I
needed the same thing I needed help I
reached out to individuals who were also
Justice impacted they were the ones who
were able to help me this is the reason
why I'm in this position and I can help
you all I need you to do is to just
follow the cotel just walk with me I
need you to walk with me because you
just talking are you absolutely not
absolutely not absolutely not I want
help I'm I'm here to help you please
have a seat have a seat please please
are you are you are you hungry can I
feed you yes I'm hungry okay let's talk
over dinner or lunch at your choice
where do you want to eat at I have any
money don't worry about that God will
supply what do you need let's go eat can
we go eat I need to be understood I need
to be looked at as a human being I felt
the same way you did I do understand the
cultural poverty that we deal with today
just throws us to the
side yes when you when I came home I'm
from Philadelphia so I'm here in a state
but I have no
family I hear you so I asked
Kevin now what are you going to do that
your out they didn't provide me with the
type of re-entry that I
needed I have glaucoma they said that I
would be able to get
help but they did not provide me with
the information that they said they had
available for me so I do
understand I do I had to go to Alicia
Wilson for help she embraced
me the Justice Reform project they
embraced
me they gave me an opportunity to to to
show what I can offer individuals like
you individuals like me
we are in this boat together walk with
me I need you to walk with me first I'm
hungry first of all yeah I'm hungry
let's go eat okay all right all right
thank you let's go
eat oh thank you sir can I share
something please real quick well can I
share
[Music]
something I was arrested
2021 I came down here from Philadelphia
with that drama and realized Georgia did
not play I was on drugs living to
College Park and I went to prison for
armed robbery for possession of a BB gun
little did I know in Philadelphia that's
just Robie by intimidation here in
Georgia any article or device having the
appearance of to Wi a hand gun
constitutes armed
robbery four different counties the C
Henry Clayton and
carb all right I didn't not know who I
was dealing
with 10 years 15 19 19 through the grace
of God there's a thing called
concurrent so I end up doing 19 years
but Clayton County didn't give me credit
I tried to get that make a long story so
I end up doing 21 years God found that
worthy enough for me to kill Kevin so
Kevin can
[Music]
live I didn't understand what I was
going
through prison was my
sabatical prison was not me doing time
or serving time to
society because if I walked past you you
didn't not know who Kevin was or who
Kevin is to know that Kevin has been the
prison
there are family members this is this is
my cry there are family members out here
today who do not know how to deal with
their loved ones coming home from
prison there's a need in the church
communities for this
platform there is a platform because so
many family members are afraid to come
up to say I have a loved one in prison
and I need help because I don't know how
to deal with him I don't understand why
do he talk to me like that on the phone
cuz he didn't talk to me like that when
when when he was
out there is a mental condition that
they are going through because the lack
of education and knowing how to be
produced after
incarceration there's a mental health
issue being forced upon the young men
and women in
prison when I came home I did not know
how
to be loving to my
wife because I can't hug my wife or kiss
my wife affectionally in
prison when I visit her one hug that sh
sit
down ladies and gentlemen sisters and
brothers there is a need
for this community to have a network
where
we are not afraid to come together to
ask for help how do I help my son when
he comes
home how do I help my daughter when she
comes
home how do I understand the things that
they are going through mentally when
they have seen so many men and women
being stabbed and
beat being
abused it's
real post incarceration syndrome pics is
real I do this to survive my being being
being cross I do this to survive to stay
afloat so that I won't go back to being
the old man that I used to be this why I
do what I
do it helps me I'm surprised there are
not more men and women like me like us
here amen there's a cry for us to be
here but I think that goes back too cuz
a lot of churches are not welcoming
that's true that's true because when I
came home I did the same thing not
welcome so that's why you're righta to
reach out and say well you are welcome
pH thank you brother thank you thank you
amen amen I close it that thank you
thank you brother
and so we thank you all um there is a
call to action we just had one we've had
several CA action um as certainly as
the as the faith community but there is
a call to action that all of us are none
has been um working on since June 2023
is what you have in your hands and it's
change.org
petition yes we printed it out and
there's a QR code
on that on the last page at the bottom
on the left hand side of the bottom at
the
bottom where you can sign this petition
they're looking for a goal of 200
petitioners and so we can help in that
effort by being part of EX allow letting
our legislature know that involuntary
servitude is slavery and it is wrong
and that's something we can do
collectively and individually so just
take the moment take your cell phone
scan the QR code it's right there if you
want to go online whether you you know
just go change.org that's why we printed
out the whole thing so you can read it
for yourself what this movement is about
last
year well not last year the one that
just came out recently one of the
questions well I'm out in p and County
one of the questions on the actual
ballot for the sheriff ballot had
democra thing this time was how do you
feel as a Georgian about ending
incarcerated prison label in the state
of Georgia that was one of the actual
issu questions on there it was that one
abortion was a couple other issues and
it was actually it was really nice to
see that that's apparently something
they been talking about so that's one of
the issue questions that is going to be
one of the hot bu issues and so we're
hoping that you all will support us on
this this I'm going to send send some if
you didn't if y'all didn't get anything
right here just a QR code for you to
scan we would love to have you join the
chapter um or just support us and just
tell somebody when y'all sitting at home
bring a couple of y'all family and say
we're going to watch a little 14 minute
documentary on YouTube when you're
sitting around and stuff um and support
that you get cuz we definitely going to
I think once we start seeing this stop
and a lot of people kept
saying oh when you in B there it's bad
when you end this it's bad not one of
the states that have actually ended
slavery are now complaining about
they're seeing people are productive and
they've seen police officers locking
Folks up for no reason has been cut back
cuz now they don't have a reason to be
locking Folks up because you can't make
them slave now so you will see that in
the community I know people say it's not
about we want to close prisons and end
stuff because we want to not hold people
accountable we feel like when you
something wrong you should be held
account but you should not be forced to
work somewhere for free and then get
punished when you choose not to yes
something yes sir let me let me just do
one one thing let me get the mic to you
so we can actually hear you so one
second I've actually I'm from Clayton
Cony I've actually hosted a a prison
ministry for the last 25 years in South
Carolina and Clayton County you we
talking about
recidivism it's a $82 billion year
industry they're not going to give that
up it only cost $111,000 to educate a
person that's coming
out they make 31,000 to keep them in so
what you think going to happen there a
three-year window that says you will be
back within 3
years it's a $82 billion a year industry
back in 2014 I
wrote the prison industrial complex and
evolution of slavery an essay Google it
and I wrote the first anti-recidivism
book a new practice for jail and prison
ministry bro
Wesley I can just show you the
book so Mr Mr
Wesley and Mr Wesley
will be here after after we do the
closing yes sir this is a
froming missionaries right listen what
he says the children have to learn to
obey what the missionary recommends who
is the father of their soul you must
singularly insist on their tool
submission and obedience avoid beeld in
the spirit in the schools teach these
students to read and not to
reason that's what we de with I'm also
educ
sir we are having to deal with kids who
in the fifth grade who can't write on
the second grade
level this system is failing now and
guess what the proje is that in another
20 30 years we're going to have
zero and so I know Mr Wesley if you
still have your book that folks can see
you afterwards and uh we do want to make
sure that we cover uh the other call to
action which is what we're discussing
that is time to vote and so we also
encourage you to in to make sure that in
whatever Circle you're in that people
are registered to vote that they know
who's on the ballot that they just don't
walk in and vote for president and walk
out because all that we're talking about
is all local politics it's state and
local there are federal absolutely but
when it comes to our legislature to the
state of Georgia what all of us is or
none is talking about is the state
constitution and so what we need to be
focused on as well as the as much
excitement as there is about the
presidential election we should be F
focused on our state and local elections
and so that's our second call to action
and with
that Ana did you have anything else okay
with that we have we were going to ask
for our adjournment um you were gonna
close us out were you closing us
no okay thank you all who have served on
the panel this evening let let's get
everyone to stand up and let's give them
a hand again for bringing the word
forward to us
the call has gone out to
us it is up to us to seek God's guidance
on how we are to move forward we have
been
informed we are aware of the 14-minute
video share that with someone that they
too might understand and those of you
who have a voice and
experience continue to carry that voice
forward so let us all join today as we
prepare to leave this space that we not
leave this space without the power of
God we go nowhere without his power so
we thank you those of you of Emi that
have come together to inform us the
church know that we are not silent
completely we might not get it right
right away but continue to come back and
say no you're not doing it yet and we'll
get there so let us go before God In
Prayer oh gracious and loving God we
thank you for entering in this space
this
afternoon we have heard your plea we now
ask that you equip us as we prepare to
leave this space we ask that the peace
that you offer to each and every one of
us goes with us Lord we thank you we
thank you for the
blessing we ask that you cover Us in
traveling mercies keep us father keep
our brothers and sisters that are still
imprisoned in so many different ways
keep them Lord and let us all know that
we are here
Humanity whatever our struggles and
strife might be Lord that we see each
other as your child so in these things
we ask and we ask that your peace reside
with each and every one of us and Jesus
name we pray
amen
how okay