In a single tweet, President Zelensky folds.
President Trump will respond in just a few hours' time.
Has Trump's tough talk worked?
Tariffs are a very dumb thing to do, the Canadian PM tells
President Trump as stock markets fall dramatically.
"Canada will never be the 51st state."
Canada's Foreign Affair Chief joins us live.
Good evening, welcome to Newsnight, live each weeknight
with insight and interviews.
We're discussing two wars tonight - the one in Ukraine and the trade war
unleashed by President Trump's tariffs.
Your panel tonight - someone close to Sir Keir Starmer,
former Foreign Office Minster Jim Murphy, and head of
Economics and Politics at Bloomberg Stephanie Flanders.
In just a few hours, President Trump will make a major
speech to the US Congress, which will likely be
his biggest TV audience since he came back to power.
Will it be "great television"?
Last night, his decision to freeze all US military aid to Ukraine
after the disastrous clash in the Oval Office put even more
pressure on President Zelensky, and it appears to have worked.
Zelensky wrote a very conciliatory tweet today,
ticking several US boxes.
"Our meeting in Washington at the White Hosue on Fri did not go
"the way it was supposed to.
"It is regrettable that this happened this way.
"Regarding the agreement on minerals and security,
"Ukraine is ready to sign it any time and in any convenient format."
And, Nick, tonight I understand you have an update for us?
Of the back of that tweet from the heart of the UK Government, two
thoughts about the intentions of President Zelensky, firstly they
believe he will sign that minerals agreement with the United States
very soon and on the Anglo-French idea for a phased ceasefire the view
is they are getting very close to getting President Zelensky to agree
to that.
In a moment, we'll hear from the former Deputy Assistant
to President Donald Trump.
First, let's hear from Congresswoman Delia Ramires,
the Democrat Representative for Illinois.
She's a member of The Squad, an informal left-wing coalition,
and will be part of the audience for Trump's speech in a few hours.
When we spoke this evening, I asked her whether President Zelenky's
statement on X today, which suggested he'll
accept a minerals deal with the US, suggests
President Trump's plan worked.
Look, no, I don't know that the president of Ukraine
issuing that statement works.
I mean, what I think you know for sure, what I do know, in fact,
is that we have a president who has demonstrated that
he's not a president.
He's a dictator helping support...
Sorry, sorry.
I'm just going to pause you on that word.
He's a dictator.
I mean, obviously, he won the popular vote.
He won the Electoral College.
So in no way is he a dictator.
He's democratically elected by your people.
Democratically elected by people and acting like a dictator.
That is exactly what he's doing.
He is telling us that Congress and members of Congress are not
an equal branch and acting as if he can take over
the authority of Congress and do whatever the heck he wants.
That's exactly what he's doing.
And that's exactly why I've called him that.
And what did you think when you heard President Trump had
paused that military aid to Ukraine?
Devastating.
I mean, I think that's what I...
It's really important for folks that are not in the US to understand
that we are walking through these chambers asking ourselves,
how could any of this be happening?
How is it possible that we are seeing our own leader threaten
to take away support from an ally that we have been supporting and
standing with for such a long time?
Really hoping to be able to get to a place that's closer
to a deal instead of siding with a Russian dictator.
Is that not what the American people voted for?
They voted for him because one of the things he said was,
amongst all the many other things, he could end this war.
The American people, let me tell you, as someone that
comes from a working-class family, they voted for someone
that they were hoping was going to bring down
the price of eggs.
They voted specifically because they needed someone
that was going to focus on making the economy better.
But that's not what's happening in the United States.
You are about to see increase in absolutely everything here,
people who are now about to lose their health care.
They voted to be able to have access to more resources, not less.
Well, he might argue, if he were here with us
now, look, if we reduce military aid, the billions of dollars that
the US has sent to Ukraine for the past three years,
then that means more money for the American people.
I would ask you, though, there's some hypocrisy there,
because would he say the same thing about sending arms and more funding
into a war in Israel, in Gaza?
I mean, I think he picks and chooses where he wants to be able
to use that argument.
And it seems to me there's a lot of dissonance in this moment.
You sound frustrated.
Are you angry with with what you see happening?
I'm absolutely angry.
It's actually quite despicable that I'm sitting in hearings
with colleagues of mine, particularly when we're
thinking about a budget.
They're saying this country is broke, but they're
giving $4.5 trillion in breaks for billionaires.
So which one is it?
Are we broke or are we just broke for the American people?
Are we going to actually find ourselves in a better position
globally, or are we going to be causing a war with our northern
partner in Canada or our southern border partner in Mexico?
These tariffs, I mean, the list could go on.
And telling you the frustrations that so many of us are feeling,
and my constituents are reminding me through email and phone
calls every single day.
Obviously, President Trump will address Congress tonight.
It's a big speech since he's come back to power.
Are you or your colleagues planning to stage any kind of protest,
any kind of walk-out?
I plan to show up.
I plan to be able to be as close as possible,
and I want to confront the person that made certain promises
on the campaign trail to the American people
and is failing them every single day.
A number of members
doing different things, to be able to demonstrate
the disgust they have for what's happening right now
in the United States.
When you say confront, what do you mean, Congresswoman?
I think that some people say, look, I can't show up.
I can't sit there and listen to him.
To me, you confront a fascist by showing up and looking
into his face as he is talking about tearing down the entire
democracy of this nation.
I think it's important for him to be able to look into our eyes
as he lies to the American people, and some of us do fact checking,
even in the real time.
You call him a fascist.
You believe that?
I believe that to my core.
Congresswoman Ramires, thank you very much for talking
to us here in the UK.
Thank you.
Fred Fleitz is a former Deputy Assistant to President Donald Trump
and former Chief of Staff of the National Security Council.
Are you expecting President Trump to her in this speech to Congress
potentially talk about a minerals deal being signed? Who was that you
just interviewed? That is the Democratic Congresswoman for
Illinois. I have never heard of her, you found the far left Congress
woman you could find to lie about Trump's successes, I honestly have
never heard of her. It doesn't matter, she has been voted in by the
people of Illinois. The BBC deceives them with people like this from the
far left squad. This is the lowest level of journalistic standards I
have ever seen! So, would you expect Demo Trump to announce the
signing... Why did you put her on? She is a democratically elected
congresswoman. Forgive me, if you may. They would not have been nearly
as crazy as her, saying shot is a fascist dictator, give me a break,
how did you find this person? -- saying Trump. She is a
democratically elected congresswoman for Illinois, she will be there when
President Trump addresses Congress, we are speaking to a Democrat and a
Trump supporter, that is you, are you expecting... I think the British
people realise hypocrisy here, but anyway, jumping to the minerals
deal, there is a good chance that President Trump announce a minerals
deal this evening, I have been hearing conflicting reports today
and that would be good news for peace in Ukraine because this is
something Trump wanted, it would be a sign of good faith by Zelensky and
we can make progress towards a ceasefire to stop the killing in
Ukraine if we can get this over with. And so that tweet from
President Zelensky today, you think it did the trick? I heard earlier
today that there was progress in the negotiations and I heard conflicting
reports, so I don't know whether that tweet made the difference but I
believe there has been substantial negotiations between the Trump
administration and Ukraine since last Friday's meeting at the Oval
Office with Zelensky to patch things up and move forward with peace
talks. Everybody has seen Donald Trump putting pressure on President
Zelensky, when will he start squeezing President Putin? That is
not fair, Trump made an offer to stop the War and start a ceasefire
and negotiations with both sides and Zelensky did not want to deal, we
are also engaged in negotiations with the Russians. But when will we
start to see him squeezing and putting pressure on President Putin?
Zelensky came to Washington, not agreeing to sign a deal he said he
would agree to in the past, and then he came to the Oval Office and acted
rudely towards the President and vice president in front of the
media. Whereas President Putin illegally invaded an independent
country. Russia was the invader here, and if we could find a perfect
solution to get Russia out of Ukraine and to put Putin... We can't
get there. We have to get a peace agreement is fair as possible and I
know this will be painful for the Ukrainians to accept but Trump's
priority is to stop the killing. He has said that multiple times, he has
not even said to President Putin, stop firing your missiles and your
drones that people in Edessa, as we have seen today, there were no
conditions for peace talks in Saudi Arabia, nothing. He has had a long
phone calls with Putin. The killing has not stopped from Russia's site.
That is a tragedy and Russians should stop attacking Ukraine
immediately and we need to get both sides to the negotiating table to
get that accomplished and in a perfect world we would hold Putin
accountable in a war crimes tribunal but we don't live in that perfect
world. Thank you very much for being with us this evening, thank you.
Later, you will be able to see President Trump address Congress and
you will be able to see it live on the BBC News channel. Jim Murphy, if
Zelensky and Trump sign that minerals deal, as has been reported,
is that great negotiating from Trump? It would be a step forward,
and it would be an opportunity to reflect on, can we stitch this back
together again? Because what we need is for the US and European
countries, including the UK, to find a way to rub along together, this
has been a really disruptive period and what we have got to guard
against is becomes a moment of real fracture between Democratic allies,
whether it is Canada and the US, Britain and the US or the EU and the
US. Do not think it has been fractured already? I think it is too
early to say, I think people watching in Moscow and Beijing want
us to fight with one another, they want us to argue with one another,
they want the British government to name call about Trump and his
supporters. In the UK Government is just determined not to give Beijing
and Moscow that fight a surprise. Can this will be put back together?
I worry if it can't. By talking to people in government, there is a
degree of confidence that that diplomacy or that the last three or
four days, where the UK is acting as a bridge between Europe's
frustration and America's isolation, they are uniquely placed to be that
bridge. Stephanie, we heard Ursula von der Leyen today announced the
rearm Europe plan, it is hundreds of billions of euros worth. Donald
Trump has been for years saying, look, America cannot keep finding
your defence in Europe, he has finally got what he wanted. He has
also accelerated the timing of it and it was in his first term he
delivered a powerful wake up call and European leaders have
consistently given him credit for that, they accept that most of this
in the way of extra defence spending would not happen on this pace
without him, and you would have to say even the outburst on Friday
night has certainly changed how fast, the urgency with which they
feel they have to rebuild, whether or not there is a fracturing in the
relationship, we are in a different era which will require the Europeans
to be more united and more aggressive, there are serious
numbers and it's important to mention, Germany appears to have a
deal with the incoming Chancellor, having brokered something which will
involve taking away the constitutional limit on them from
acquiring more debt, and that will open up another whole chunk of very
important defence spending by Germany, said this is a big deal,
they have had action.
From the war in Ukraine to a trade war, global markets fell after US
tariffs came into effect at midnight against America's three
biggest trading partners, Mexico, China and Canada -
the latter two immediately imposed retaliatory measures.
Here's Canada's PM Justin Trudeau in his final week in office
in a televised address.
We have to fold back on the one thing he has said repeatedly
that what he wants is to see a total collapse of the Canadian economy,
because that will make it easier to annexe us, is the second half
of his thought.
Now, first of all, that's never going to happen.
We will never be the 51st state.
Now, it's not in my habit to agree with the Wall Street Journal.
But Donald, they point out that even though you're a very smart
guy, this is a very dumb thing to do.
Let's talk live to Canada's Minister of Foreign Affairs, Melanie Joly.
You saw her just plant Justin Trudeau there. It is worth saying I
think to the viewers in the UK how seriously you take the talk of
President Trump speaking about Canada is the 51st state? Very
seriously, this is not a joke any more and not something that we laugh
about. It is based on a conversation that we've had and I've also had
with many of the Trump administration officials. Because
when they talk to us is not only about our border and the Fanselow
issue and the so-called national security crisis at the northern
border which clearly is not the case but they put everything on the
table. Our military cooperation, security alliances and water etc so
they have been threatening us with different things. And now we wanted
to make sure the Canadian public and the world was clearly informed about
what is going on and I must say also I was in the UK last week and I met
with Jonathan Powell of the LSA and Foreign Secretary David Lammy and
also Morgan McSweeney the chief of staff of Keir Starmer before they
went to Washington and I informed them about what was going on in the
relationship between Canada and the US. That is very interesting and
obviously want to talk to you about tariffs. US commerce secretary
Howard Lautrec said
Howard Lautrec said tonight, President Trump may actually roll
back tariffs on Mexico and Canada as soon as tomorrow. Have you heard
that, what is going on and how is that going to affect trade? First
and foremost we know when it comes to the different secretaries of the
Trump administration they can say many things but at the end of the
day the only one that really takes a decision is President Trump. So they
can be talking to us and having different kinds of conversations but
even then they do not really know what the president wants. What is
clear is that none of them contacted us yesterday or today regarding the
tariff issue. And that was not only the case with us but the case also
with Mexico. So they have the same strategy. The idea of imposing 25%
tariffs against us is an existential threat. We are the biggest trading
partner of the US, we buy more from the US then the UK, France, China
and Japan combined. So there are thousands, millions of jobs in the
US that are linked to the relationship that we have with the
US. And in response you have matched with retaliatory 25% tariffs on
American goods. President Trump posted please explain to Governor
Trudeau of Canada that when he puts on retaliatory tariff in the US are
reciprocal tariff will immediately increase by a like amount. Where
does it end? That is it, my job as being in charge of policy is to find
off ramps and I'm talking to Marco Rubio tomorrow at noon, Secretary of
State but at the same time I must be frank that we tend not to let our
guard down. We need to make sure that we fight back. What are you
going to say then tomorrow to Marco Rubio? Of course we'd to solve the
issue but meanwhile that is enough, no more unpredictability because
they're trying to put a pause of 30 days and then can continue and
meanwhile we are always third trying to think what will be next. Can I
ask how offended you are by President Trump calling Prime
Minister Trudeau Governor Trudeau? We've had enough with his rhetoric.
No Canadians now are having fun with this. And there's a reason why
Canadians when they go to a hockey game are booing the American
national anthem. It is not against the American people, we are at their
best friends and with many friends and families south of the border. We
know the Americans best because we are in that North American reality
every single day. But what Canadians are sending out as a message to the
Trump administration is that we do not agree, we are insulted, angry
and that is enough. And so we will retaliate, will use our economic
strength and we will be united because we know when Canadians are
united that we win and we know what happens in the US right now, what is
happening is we are seeing that more and more there is a fraction of then
American society. And when Americans themselves understand that our
counter tariffs are having an impact on loved ones losing their jobs or
costing more at the petrol pump or costing what the grocery store they
will say President Trump, that is enough. You have to make sure that
you settle this issue with Canada. So we did not start this trade war
and did not want it and did everything required under the
executive order to make sure our border were safe and secure. But at
the end of the day is for frank, this is a bogus excuse on the part
of the Trump administration against us. The US is a net exporter of
illegal drugs to Canada. It is an act exporter of illegal migrants to
Canada. Canadians know this, they see through what is happening and so
that's why are all united and old rallying around a beautiful flag.
Your Prime Minister tweeted a photo of his meeting at the weekend when
you hear in the UK as well with King Charles. Who is of course Canada's
head of state and Justin Trudeau tweeted and I viewers are saying
that now, we spoke about matters reports to Canadians including a
bubble Canada and its sovereign and independent future for that those
words will be chosen of course with care and would have been put into
the public domain to reflect the views and intent of the Prime
Minister and the sovereign. Can I ask you to you welcome this public
commitment from King Charles that Canada is not up for grabs?
Absolutely. The head of our state as he is with your state and we have
questions regarding the relationship between Canada and the UK and what
I've said time and again is that no country on earth will be able to
divide Canada in the UK. We are bound by a history and bound by our
friends and families. Canadians, it is part of our DNA to have a
relationship of the UK. And of course we have the same head of
state. So we will stand strong and work with UK, work with our European
allies. But Canadians are going through a tough time right now. We
are strong and united but let's be frank also we are the canary in the
coal mine. Europeans are next, the UK is next. With so we need to work
together and that is also why went to London to make sure that if there
are tariffs imposed we should also work on counter tariffs for that
that is also why I went to Paris. Do you want more help from the UK? You
want them to show more solidarity with you when it comes to these
tariffs? The Prime Minister was there over the weekend on Ukraine
and we are completely aligned on trade, and Ukraine and Nato and
everything that is linked to foreign policy right now. So we should just
reinforce each other because what is going on right now is that there is
a lot of unpredictability and chaos coming out of Washington. And I'm
head of the diplomacy in Canada and I know what I'm saying right now. I
understand the strength of my words right now but it is important for
people watching us to understand what is going on in the US. There is
definitely an issue that is happening with the president using
his own executive powers and not necessarily following what is
required under their entire constitution. And that is what he's
with his own executive order against Canada on the border and on sentinel
at the same time on imposing tariffs. One more question if I may,
do you think that Donald Trump has shown sufficient respect to King
Charles? If Donald Trump got his way he would be dislodging the King as
the Canadian head of state. Well I look forward for the King to make
sure that he stands in solidarity with Canadians and I think that he's
doing that right now. Happy that the Prime Minister Trudeau had the
chance to meet with him and I also think that we will continue to work
and reinforce the Keir Starmer government which is a key ally. But
we need to be united in this. And this cannot be just one against the
other because we think we could have a better relationship with
Washington, no. We need to be united and being united we will be able to
bring Washington to a better sound place. And coming from a Canadian I
think that has a lot of weight. Thank you very much for talking to
us tonight.
So the effect of tariffs, the EU could be next may the UK. Well for
the US it is going to add to inflation for consumers. People who
voted for Donald Trump, he never likes to admit that there is any
costs of tariffs to the US economy and that there would anybody
retaliation that will affect American farmers but he has seen the
stock market lose all the gains it made after he was elected today and
that may have concentrated the mind a little bit. It is striking to me
that economists have started to think about not necessarily a
recession but potentially shrink in the US economy for a few months as a
result of a lot of this uncertainty. The only reason that there are
predicting anything more severe as they do not think that these tariffs
as a minister was saying, it is such a dramatic move when these economies
are so interwoven and will have such a big impact on things like the cost
of cars that you just cannot imagine. Everyone is assuming
whether it is tomorrow or sometime in the next few weeks that they will
be lifted. If you look the UK I think we are currently relatively
protected, there is the steel tariffs that would affect us and
honestly a lot of UK companies are affected by steel but it looks like
we will be less in the frame but if Europe are then that will hit us.
How is Number Ten as far as you know preparing for what might come down
the track economically with whatever President Trump unleashes? Well
first of all on Canada briefly the lasting impact of this on Canada may
be the fact that Trudeau has his party re-elected completely
unexpectedly off the back of what is going on now. On tariffs and
economics, with Keir Starmer and his team, they are elected on a
manifesto of getting the economy going and clearly tariffs would be a
blow to that. So the preparation for his meeting in the Oval Office last
week was partly on tariffs and partly around Ukraine and they are
pretty confident that being complacent that the charm and
engagement over a period of two years will have the impact. What you
think of the Canadian foreign affairs Minister in what she said
about Trudeau and his meeting with the and then tweet today? I think it
was a significant intervention by the Foreign Minister of Canada
saying what Justin Trudeau said implicitly and that is this. King
Charles III is standing in solidarity with Canada to prevent
Donald Trump annex in Canada and dislodging King Charles III as the
ceremonial head of state of Canada to be replaced by Donald Trump.
Confirmation from the Canadian Foreign Minister to this programme
that King Charles III is standing against that with Canada. That is
significant.
And, finally, UK politicians are working out how to deal
with the US Vice-President, JD Vance, who's more and more
the main character these days.
He's caused offence here in the UK when he said this
about a peacekeeping force in a Fox interview.
If you want real security guarantees, if you want to actually
ensure that Vladimir Putin does not invade Ukraine again,
the very best security guarantee is to give Americans economic upside
in the future of Ukraine.
That is a way better security guarantee than 20,000 troops
from some random country that hasn't fought a war in 30 or 40 years.
So he did roll back from that and said that he was not trying to
offend the UK after that. But it did annoy quite a few politicians here.
Nigel Farage said it was wrong, wrong, wrong. A bad knock was far
more cautious saying we should give him the benefit of the doubt and
there was some criticism of Kemi Badenoch. Rob Ford who is the
leading pollster says could this be her soul is very moment, the moment
Jeremy Corbyn said maybe we should send some intelligence to Moscow for
verification after the Salisbury poisoning. The view from the
Conservative leadership is that Kemi Badenoch is their candidate to be
Prime Minister, she needs to act in the national interest and so must
not antagonise the White House. A lot of Conservative MPs have been
critical of JD Vance. The message has gone up from them from the party
sang do not antagonise the White House it is not in the UK national
interest. A quick look at the papers from tomorrow. The Daily Telegraph,
Zelensky vows to track pressure. The Guardian, Zelensky vows to work with
Trump for peace. UK scrambling to save Ukraine peace deal as Zelensky
gravels to truck. What you think of that headline? UK scrambling? I
think the UK is determined and has invested a huge amount of energy on
this in the last few days and all these issues back and forward, Keir
Starmer and the team are determined not to be commentators. Not to
comment on the back and forward. Behind the scenes it is patient
diplomacy and the UK they believe is the only nation able to bridge the
multiple divides that are emerging. Do you see any signs of scrambling
or panic privately? No, but there's a sense of responsibility. Because
they look around the world and without being critical, the French
are pretty declaratory in their approach, Germany is going through a
change of leadership and the Italians are trying their best, the
Canadians are stuck in a kind of death spiral in the moment and they
realised that there are servers responsibility in the UK and the
matter who is in government there. An Keir Starmer would see his unique
responsibility in this moment. Thank you very much for being with us. We
will do it all again tomorrow. That is all from us. We are back
tomorrow. See you then. Good night.