基尔伯特
做这种工作很难的一件事就是 One of the things that's hard doing this kind of work
你知道你给受害者的家人 带来了很多痛苦 is that you know that you're causing a lot of pain to the victim's family.
人们想要定论 他们想要解答 People want certainty, they want resolution.
凯瑟琳泽尔纳 史蒂文的定罪后律师
他们会觉得这个人被追究责任 And they'd like to feel like the person is being held accountable.
然后像我这样的人出现了 And then somebody like me comes along,
然后他们开始觉得事情变得不确定 and they start reading these things, you know, like, maybe it isn't so certain.
因此他们会把很多仇恨 集中起来针对我 And so, they can focus a lot of their animosity towards me.
抗议《制造杀人犯》
凯瑟琳泽尔纳 Kathleen Zellner,
她手下有很多人在研究史蒂文的案子 she has a lot of people working on Steven's case.
她可能认为他真的是无辜的 And she may think that he's honestly innocent...
但如果这不是一个引人注目的案件 but if this wasn't a high-profile case,
我非常怀疑她是否会这么努力 I highly doubt if she would be working on it.
凯瑟琳泽尔纳 用推特为艾弗里辩护 Kathleen Zellner is using Twitter to defend Avery's innocence,
向她的粉丝宣布在他出狱之前 她不会停下 announcing to her followers that she won't quit until he's out.
我是说 你真的需要 用推特让一个人出狱吗？ I mean, do you really need to use Twitter to try to get a guy out of jail?
这可能是一种新的方法 她也不是个蠢女人 I mean, it's probably a new way to do it, and she's not a dumb lady.
她知道自己在做什么 她很聪明 She knows what she's doing, she's smart.
凯瑟琳泽尔纳发推关于见委托人 Kathleen Zellner tweeting, she visited her client
及检查了他的38箱档案 and reviewed his 38 boxes of files,
写上“他仍然是无辜的 被诬陷的” adding, "He remains innocent and framed."
如果她只是想在体制中找到漏洞 If she's just trying to find a loophole in the system, then...
而史蒂文也许犯罪了 但她认为她可以把他弄出来 and Steven may still have done it, but she thinks that she can get him out
通过技术或之类的东西 because of a technicality or something like that,
很明显 我认为这是不对的 I don't think that's right, obviously.
史蒂文对新的法医鉴定 感到兴奋不已
我认为任何人都不需要担心技术问题 I don't think anybody needs to worry about a technicality.
这个级别的法院 不会因为技术就放人出狱 Courts at this level aren't letting people out on technicalities.
我会对这个案子的人说 I would say to the people on the Avery case,
“如果这个案子是可靠的 如果他有罪我会输的” "If this case is solid, if he's guilty, I'll fail."
所以没什么好担心的 So, there's nothing to worry about.
但如果它不可靠而且是别人做的 But if it's not solid and someone else did it,
那么我会推翻它 then I'm gonna overturn it, and that's gonna come out.
这也是一件值得高兴的事 And that's also something to be glad about,
我们的司法体系允许这样做 that our system of justice allows for that.
NETFLIX 纪录片系列
我通常在7点左右 跟芭芭拉和斯科特见面 I usually meet up with Barb and Scott at about 7:00.
如果我晚到几分钟 她也不会说什么 I'm sure if I'm a couple minutes late, she ain't gonna say anything.
皮特达赛 布兰登的父亲
但我们有着日常例程 所以… But we just got a routine, you know? So...
我总是喜欢早一点 赶上那些狗 I always like to be a little earlier and catch up with the dogs, you know?
顺便说一下 她给布兰登买的那条狗真的很不错 That dog that she's got for Brendan is really nice, by the way. Yeah.
我们一起出门 我们会用我的车 但我不信任它 We all ride together. We'd use my vehicle, but I don't trust it.
有些问题我需要修理 There are some issues I gotta fix.
所以我要加油 So, I pitch in for gas.
我确信这次拜访很愉快 It'll be a wonderful visit, I'm sure.
我们总是很开心 你知道吗？ We always have good times, you know?
我只希望时间长一点 I just wish it was longer.
“我对此坚信不疑”
嗨 乔 Angel.
过来这里 Come here.
-早上好 皮特 -早上好 - Morning, Pete. - Morning.
-你好吗？ -很好 - How you doing? - Good.
很高兴见到你 Nice to see you.
-无论何时 我都准备好了 -我准备好了 - Well, whenever. I'm ready. - I'm ready.
那么下星期天 你也想和我们一起去吗？ So, did you want to go with us next Sunday, too?
如果没有其他人和你一起去 那就不成问题了 If nobody else is going with you, that won't be a problem.
因为我知道你偶尔会带 布莱恩和他的妻子 Because I know once in a while you bring Blaine and his wife,
我很理解 你知道吗？ and I deeply understand, you know?
-有足够的空间 -当然没问题 - There's plenty of room. - OK. Yeah, sure. No problem.
“探访愉快 叫布兰登坚持下去 "Have a great visit. Tell Brendan to hang in there
我们为他祈祷 and we are praying for him.
给他送去很多爱” Sending lots of love his way."
242个喜欢 Two hundred and forty-two likes.
他的脸被所有的支持者们点亮了 Yeah, his face lights up with all the supporters
因为他不认为他会有那么多的支持者 'cause he didn't think he would have that many.
我说“布兰登 这里有很多… I says, "Brendan, there's a lot...
世界上还有很多美好的事物 你总是听到不好的 There's still a lot of good in the world. You always hear about the bad.
你知道吗 但也会有很多好事发生” You know? But there's a lot of good things that happen, too, you know?"
“我们支持布兰登 和所有被误判的人 We support Brendan and all the wrongful convicted.
愿正义得到伸张” May justice prevail.
我们得等他们开门 让我们进去 We gotta wait until they open the door, and they let us in.
穿过金属探测器 Walk through a metal detector.
他们还得打开另一扇门 There's another door that they have to open up.
把表格拿到桌子上 Bring the form to the desk.
他们告诉我们坐哪张桌子 They tell us what table to sit at.
有时我们得等着见他 Sometimes we have to wait to see him.
他走进门来 He walks through his door.
他会给芭芭拉一个大大的拥抱 然后是斯科特 然后是我 He'll give Barb a big hug, then Scott, and then me.
我给布兰登一个汉堡 芭芭拉会给他一杯苏打水 I'll give Brendan a burger, Barb will get him a soda.
我们会分享 她会给他这个 我也会给他那个 We share. She'll get him this, I'll get him that.
我敢说在过去的11年里 我们至少探访过他1000次 I bet you we've visited him 1,000 times, if not more, in the last 11 years.
最糟糕的是把他留在这里 The worst thing about it is leaving him behind.
是啊 Yeah.
他的兄弟们将会比他走得更高 His brothers would go up more by him.
-这让他们难过 -但这对他们伤害太大了 - It hurts them. - But it hurts them too much.
他的大哥… His oldest brother's...
他很难过 He's just torn apart.
布莱恩达赛
他想去看他 但又不敢去看他 He wants to go see him, but he's afraid to go see him.
这也伤害了博比 但他还有一个现在必须要照顾的儿子 It hurts Bobby, too, but he's also got a son that he's gotta take care of now.
现在布莱恩也有了一个儿子 他必须保护他 Now Bryan's got a son, too, that he's got to worry about protecting...
是的 Yeah.
11年过去了 这对他的哥哥仍然有很大的影响 Eleven years later, and it's still got a major effect on his oldest brother.
布雷恩 博比 布莱恩
如果他多去看看他 就会像我们现在这样容易了 If he'd go see him more, it would get easier like it has for us.
即使当我在工作的时候 I mean, even when I'm at work...
一些事情会突然出现在我的脑海里… and something pops up in my head...
布兰登 布雷恩 博比 布莱恩
…我开始哭泣 I start crying.
直至今日 Even to this day.
一旦有人被定罪 Once somebody's convicted,
他们必须移开大山才能出狱 they have to move mountains to get out of prison.
我们现在的任务 是颠覆整个体系… Our task now is to upend an entire system
劳拉尼瑞德
…从设计上讲现在倾向于检察官 which, by design, is now weighted in favor of the prosecutors,
倾向于控方 in favor of the State,
倾向于让定罪维持下去 in favor of keeping this conviction in place.
法院以最终的原则来管理自己 Courts govern themselves by the principle of finality.
法院不希望受到大批犯人 The courts don't want to be flooded by applications
寻求释放的申请 from inmate after inmate seeking to get released from prison.
2010年 马尼托瓦克县巡回法庭驳回
这种终结性的概念 可以支配在定罪后发生的一切 This concept of finality can govern everything that happens post-conviction.
2013年福克斯法官维持原判 威斯康星州上诉法院
2013年审查被否决 威斯康星州最高法院
过去联邦法院 It used to be that the federal court
对终结这一概念的重视程度并不高 did not place as much weight on this concept of finality.
到了1996年 And then in 1996,
美国国会实际上 以允许他们审查州法院判决的方式 the US Congress really tied the hands of federal court judges
约束联邦法院法官 in the ways in which they're allowed to review state court decisions.
联邦地方法院 人身保护令请愿书
该法令被称为AEDPA… The statute is known as AEDPA...
A-E-D-P-A A-E-D-P-A...
就是《反恐和有效死刑法案》 which is the Antiterrorism and Effective Death Penalty Act.
法令中的反恐怖主义部分 The antiterrorism part of the statute
是对俄克拉荷马城 爆炸事件的直接响应 is in direct response to the Oklahoma City bombing
政客们认为应该 and the belief on the part of politicians
判处蒂莫西麦克维死刑 that Timothy McVeigh should be given the death penalty
联邦法院不应该延迟对其执行死刑 and that federal courts should not delay his execution.
蒂莫西麦克维
1995年4月19日
俄克拉荷马州俄克拉荷马市联邦大楼 There has been a massive explosion
发生大规模爆炸 at a federal building in Oklahoma City, Oklahoma.
这是不久前发生的事 It happened a short time ago.
那座大楼的很大一部分倒塌了… A large portion of that building has collapsed and fallen...
据报导 至少有250人失踪 There are reports that at least 250 people are missing.
里面有40个孩子 There were 40 children inside
因为二楼是日托中心 because of the daycare center of the second floor.
这是美国境内有史以来 最致命的恐怖袭击 This is the deadliest terror attack on US soil ever.
俄克拉荷马城的爆炸 The bombing in Oklahoma City
是懦弱的 邪恶的行为 was an act of cowardice, and it was evil.
我们没有怀疑的余地 Let there be no room for doubt,
我们会找到做这件事的人 we will find the people who did this.
比尔克林顿总统 1995年4月19日
当我们这样做的时候 正义会得到伸张 When we do, justice will be swift,
一定会 绝对会 certain, and severe.
很明显 对于是支持还是反对 There's apparently a confusion
关于人身保护令的修正案存在着困惑 over whether you're for or against an amendment regarding habeas corpus.
我们一直想通过 Yeah, we've been trying to pass,
我试图去年通过 但没能成功 and I tried to pass last year and failed to do it,
一项改革人身保护令程序的法案 a bill which would reform the habeas corpus procedure,
刑事上诉程序 the criminal appeals procedure.
在死刑案件中 通常需要八年时间才能完成上诉 In death penalty cases, it normally takes eight years to exhaust the appeals.
荒谬 如果你有多项罪名 可能需要更长的时间 It's ridiculous. And if you have multiple convictions, it could take even longer.
我们需要大幅减少上诉的时间延迟 We need to cut the time delay on the appeals dramatically.
1996年4月18日 众议院关于AEDPA的辩论
受害者家属 The families of the victims of those people
因恐怖主义行为而失去 亲人 同事和朋友 who have lost loved ones, colleagues, and friends to acts of terrorism,
来到我们面前说：“给我们正义！ came to us and said, "Give us justice!
给我们人身保护令和死刑改革” Give us habeas and death penalty reform."
为什么有必要将死刑 Why is it necessary to link the death penalty
和人身保护令的宪法保障 与恐怖主义法案联系起来？ and the constitutional guarantees of habeas corpus to a terrorism bill?
这只是一笔政治交易 This is just a political deal.
长达17年的荒谬可憎 The absurdity, the obscenity, of 17 years
从一个人被判刑到判决执行 from the time a person has been sentenced until that sentence is carried out,
通过州法院系统不断上诉 through endless appeals up and down the state court system,
联邦法院系统的不断上诉 up and down the federal court system,
使法律成为笑柄 makes a mockery of the law.
在一万件人身保护令问题中 Only 100 out of 10,000 habeas corpus issues
只有100件来自死刑案件 come from death penalty cases.
来自恐怖主义案件的甚至更少 Even less come from terrorist cases.
众议员梅尔瓦特 北卡罗莱纳
然而这项法案也不限于死刑案件 Yet this bill is not limited either to death penalty cases
或是恐怖主义案件 or to terrorist cases.
它剥夺了每一个美国人 It is depriving every single American,
每一个孩子 我们每一个人 every single child, every single one of us,
宪法对人身保护令的保护 of our constitutional protections of habeas corpus.
AEDPA在国会两党 支持下通过 参议院91-8 众议院293-133
反恐法案签署
该法令对寻求重审其判决的人 This statute placed strict timelines
制定了严格的时限 on people seeking review of their sentences
并更广泛地适用于 不涉及死刑判决的案件 and applied more broadly to cases that didn't involve death sentences.
美国永远不会向恐怖主义投降 America will never surrender to terror.
克林顿总统说 他的目的并不是要限制联邦法院 President Clinton said his intention was not to constrain federal courts
对违反宪法的行为进行审查 in their ability to review constitutional violations.
但最高法院 But the Supreme Court,
在它对法令语言的解释中… in its interpretation of the language of the statute,
美国最高法院 1994-2005
…对法官审查州法院判决的能力 has imposed greater and greater restrictions
施加了越来越大的限制 on judges' ability to review state court decisions.
因为AEDPA 我们必须向联邦法院展示 Because of AEDPA, we have to show the federal court
当我们告诉州法院宪法被违背 that when we told the state courts that the Constitution was violated
并且他们不同意我们时 and they disagreed with us,
州法院不仅仅是错了 that the state court was not just wrong,
州法院不仅仅犯了一个错误 the state court didn't just make a mistake,
它犯了一个不合理的错误 it made an unreasonable mistake.
不合理适用明确规定的联邦法律
对事实的不合理的判断
你必须完成艰难的任务 You have to thread the eye of a needle
才能在联邦法庭上获得解脱 in order to get relief in federal court.
百分之99甚至更多的 联邦人身保护状请愿被拒绝 Ninety-nine percent, or even more, of federal habeas petitions are denied.
在联邦法院获胜相当于一个法律奇迹 Winning in federal court is the equivalent of a legal miracle.
当然直到今天达赛还在说他没做过 To this day, of course, Dassey is saying he didn't do it.
也许他会赢得联邦政府的人身保护令 And perhaps he'll win his federal habeas appeal,
但我不会指望它 but I wouldn't count on it.
伦恩卡钦斯基 布兰登的审前律师
联邦地区法院 威斯康星州法院系统
我的意思是 如果我来看布兰登的情况 I mean, if I was looking at Brendan's situation,
我会说 从实际面来看 I would say that, for all practical purposes,
他的案子已经结束了 his case is over.
所以我认为没有任何不忠企图说服他 So, I don't think there was any unloyalty to attempting to persuade him
他不会在庭审中获得胜利 而他最好的做法 that he wasn't going to succeed to trial and that the best thing for him to do
可能就是和政府达成协议 was probably to try to strike a deal with the State.
最有可能的是 如果他合作并选择指证艾弗里 Most likely, had he cooperated and chosen to testify against Avery,
他本可以把刑期缩短一半 uh, he could've reduced his time probably in half.
让布兰登为他没做过的事 签认罪协议？ For Brendan to make a plea deal for something he didn't do?
-这是错的 -你认为那是对的吗？ - It's wrong. - Do you think that would be right?
我不认为 I don't think so.
-我不认为那是对的 -不 - I don't think that would be right at all. - No.
尤其是如果你是无辜的 Especially if you're innocent.
2007年4月23日 布兰登达赛的审判第七天
他告诉我他是无辜的 He told me he was innocent.
我说“那就坚持住自己” I said, "Stick with your guns, then."
是的 I do.
这关乎真相 It's about the truth.
布兰登达赛 Brendan Dassey. D-A-S-S-E-Y.
2007年8月2日 布兰登达赛的判决听证会
早上好 法官福克斯 Good morning, Judge Fox.
我是迈克哈尔巴赫 我是特里萨的弟弟 My name is Mike Halbach and I'm Teresa's younger brother.
2005年10月31日 On October 31st, 2005,
布兰登达赛有机会 为自己选择一个终生头衔： Brendan Dassey had the opportunity to choose a lifelong title for himself:
“强奸犯和杀人犯”或是“英雄” rapist and murderer, or hero.
这是一个如此简单的决定 It's such an easy decision
以至于任何可以选择前者的人 不管是年轻人还是老年人 that the fact that any person, young or old, who can choose the former
都必须承担责任 has to be held accountable.
他一直拒绝认罪协议 He has consistently refused plea deals,
这本来可以让我们在这场悲剧中 生活得更轻松 which would've made our lives easier amidst this tragedy
而且对他有利的是 这样做会使他的刑期缩短 and, to his benefit, would have made his sentence shorter for doing so.
福克斯法官 我请求你把这个 强奸犯和杀人犯送进监狱 Judge Fox, I will ask you to send this rapist and murderer to prison
让他终身监禁且永远不能假释 for the rest of his life without ever becoming eligible for parole.
谢谢你 Thank you.
请表明身份以便记录 Please identify yourself for the record.
我是芭芭拉塔狄驰 My name is Barbara Tadych,
我要说的是我儿子没有这么做 and all I gotta say is, my son did not do this.
他或多或少是被迫说出他所说的话的 He was more or less coerced into saying what he said.
我相信他应该是… And I believe that he should be...
也许他说的有点道理 Maybe get a little bit for saying his story,
但我认为他不应该被判终生监禁 but I don't think he ought to deserve life.
还有别的吗？ Anything else?
他是无辜的 Just that he's innocent.
法庭判决你 布兰登达赛 The court sentences you, Brendan Dassey,
一级蓄意杀人罪 on the crime of first-degree intentional homicide,
终身监禁 to life in prison,
并在2048年11月1日可以 and determines that you will be eligible for release to extended supervision
获得保释资格 on November 1st, 2048.
失去家人很难过 It's hard to lose family.
我为哈尔巴赫家人感到难过 I do feel bad for the Halbachs.
但你会认为他们想知道真相 But you'd think they would want to know the truth.
知道到底发生了什么 What really happened.
我知道我想找到真正的凶手 I know I would wanna. Get the real killer...
给特里萨一些安宁 and give Teresa some peace.
法官给布兰登的并不是我们想要的… What the judge gave Brendan, um, wasn't exactly what we wanted,
迈克哈尔巴赫
…但就像其他事情一样 我们会接受它并处理它 but just like anything else, we'll accept it and deal with it.
41年后 我就66岁了 In 41 years, I'll be 66,
当那一天到来的时候 我会再想想 and when that time comes, I'll think about it again.
但在接下来的41年里 But for the next 41 years,
我可能根本不会想到 史蒂文艾弗里或布兰登达赛 I'll probably not think about Steven Avery or Brendan Dassey at all.
布兰登 你对这句话 有什么要说的吗？ Brendan, any reaction to the sentence?
没有 No.
你希望最终能出狱吗？ Do you hope to get out of prison eventually?
史蒂文的律师很好 Steven's lawyer is good,
我想她会查出是谁干的 and I think she will find out who did it.
我希望 我祈祷… I'm hoping. I have my fingers crossed.
他们会知道真相： Then they'll know the truth,
与我们无关 that none of us were involved.
对我来说控方能做到这一点 It's just incredible to me
真是难以置信 that the prosecution was able to pull this off.
这是有史以来最愚蠢的案子之一 It is one of the all-time stupid cases.
真的… It really...
我无法想象人们 是如何把这些东西组合在一起的 I just... I mean, I just cannot imagine how people put this together.
太神奇了 It's fascinating.
因为我不喜欢指责陪审团 Because I don't like blaming juries,
因为我认为陪审团制度确实有效 because I think the jury system really works.
如果他们知道… It really works if they know...
如果他们有证据 他们不会犯这样的错误 If they've got the evidence, they don't mistakes like this.
这只能归咎于他们没有得到证据 This can only be attributed to them not being given the evidence.
这是主要燃烧地点的第一个原因 The number one reason why this is the primary burn location
是10月31日… is that on October 31st,
肯克拉兹的反驳论点
…艾弗里那里在10月31日 Mr. Avery had a big, whopping fire there
发生了一场大火 on the 31st of October.
我们还没有听到 任何证据表明一场大火 And we haven't heard any evidence of a big, whopping fire,
这种大火会完全吞噬 the kind that would consume, fully consume, a human body,
那片地上的尸体 anywhere else on that property.
女士们先生们 那是主要的燃烧地点 That's the primary burn location, ladies and gentlemen.
你可以发现 You can find that,
你应该发现 除了合理的怀疑之外 and you should find that, beyond a reasonable doubt.
不应该存在问题 That shouldn't be a question for you.
我想找到研究尸体燃烧的顶尖专家 I wanted to find the leading expert on burning bodies.
我和几个法医人类学家谈过 I talked to a couple of forensic anthropologists,
我一直得到同一个名字： 约翰德汉博士 and I kept getting the same name: Dr. John DeHaan.
世界上没有人比他 There isn't anybody in the world
更了解尸体燃烧 that knows more about burning bodies than he does.
我有机会观察了在各种条件下 I've had the opportunity to observe a number of human cadavers
被烧的一些尸体 burned under a variety of conditions,
约翰德汉博士
我知道怎样才能让尸体持续燃烧 and I know what it takes to keep a body burning
以及完成一定程度的破坏需要什么 and what it takes to accomplish a certain amount of destruction.
如果是在露天的坑里 What happens is that if it's in an open pit,
燃烧燃料产生的热量 uh, the heat that you generate from burning the fuel,
基本上就会损失殆尽 basically, is largely lost,
它与火焰和烟雾一同升起 it goes up with the flames and the smoke.
因此必须不断 添加更多的燃料来维持火势 And as a result, you have to keep adding more fuel to keep the fire going.
10月31日 On the 31st of October,
晚上7点半到7点45 at about 7:30 to 7:45 p.m.,
那时候你有没有注意到 附近有什么不寻常的地方？ did you notice anything unusual around the property at that time?
斯科特塔狄驰
是的 Yes, I did.
告诉陪审团你当时看到了什么 Could you tell the jury what you saw, please?
我看见一场大火 I saw a big fire.
你能告诉陪审团 你在哪里看到大火的吗？ Can you tell the jury where you saw the fire, please?
就在那里 Right there.
7点45分左右在你看的时候 Are you able to estimate how high or how tall the flames were
你能估计出火焰有多高吗？ as you were watching there about 7:45?
它们几乎和车库一样高 They were almost as tall as the garage.
所以… - So...
八、十英尺 也许十英尺 Eight, ten feet.I don't know. Ten feet, maybe.
火焰有十英尺高 Ten feet tall, the flames were.
-大火？ -大火 - Big fire? - It's a big fire.
好的 Alright.
你有看见史蒂文 在大火旁边或附近吗？ Did you see Steven Avery standing next to or near that fire?
是的 Yes, I did.
检察官想让陪审团想象史蒂文艾弗里 The prosecutor wanted the jury to visualize Steven Avery
站在大火外边 standing outside of a big bonfire
而火焰烧到了车库顶上 with the flames over the roof of the garage.
对你来说 这种形象可信吗？ To you, is that credible, that image?
不 空气中火焰的高度是 No. The height of a flame in open air is,
普通的可燃物 of ordinary combustibles,
是由你所拥有的燃料量所决定的 is driven by the amount of fuel that you have.
基本上 火焰的大小控制着火焰的高度 Basically, the size of the fire controls the height of the flames.
关于毁灭尸体的一个流言 And one of the mythologies about destroying a body is,
是如果我在上面浇汽油 "If I pour gasoline on it,
那会是真正的大火 会烧毁尸体 you know, that's a really hot fire and that's gonna destroy the body."
嗯 不是的 汽油在几分钟内就会烧完 Well, no. I mean, the gasoline burns off in a couple of minutes,
灼伤皮肤的外表面然后熄灭 scorches the outer surfaces of the skin, and goes out.
-所以它会熄灭 -会熄灭 - So it just goes out. - It just goes out.
这又回到了他几年前教我的东西 And again, it all goes back to what he taught me years ago,
十多年前 那是空气 over a decade ago, it's atmosphere.
史蒂文赛姆思博士
这是一个平坑 它的侧面并没有受到保护 It's a flat pit. It's...It's really not protected on the side or anything,
所有的能量都进入了空气 so all the energy's going into the atmosphere.
所以没有任何东西能把火集中 And so there's nothing concentrating that fire,
或者把火集中在尸体旁边 or keeping the fire next to the body.
因此在一个12或15英尺高 或更高的开放区域 So, to have flames in an open area 12 or 15 feet high or higher
燃烧的火焰需要大量的燃料 would require an enormous fuel load.
需要什么样的燃料？ 你要多少加仑… What kind of fuel would be required? How many gallons would you have...
你必须有一个连续的供给 You'd have to have a continuous supply...
或者你必须有几百加仑 对吗？ Or you'd have to have hundreds of gallons, right?
-你得有个油箱 -是的 - You'd have to have your fuel tank. - Yeah.
那很巨大 Yeah, that's huge, though,
因为州政府告诉陪审团 because the State told the jury
他们发现了一些轮胎的残余物 that the remnants of a couple of tires were found
尸体实际上可以被火化 and that the body could actually be, essentially, cremated
用轮胎作为燃料来源 with tires put on it as the fuel source.
你认为这可能吗？ Do you think that's possible?
这看起来像是两个轮胎的残骸 This looks like the remains of maybe two tires.
这些会帮助尸体燃烧 Well, those will help keep a body burning,
但它们不会成为实现 这种程度破坏的主要燃料 but they are not gonna be a primary fuel to achieve this kind of destruction.
如果你用几十个轮胎做燃料 If you're fueling it with dozens of car tires,
你会看到汽车轮胎所有钢元素的残留 you're gonna have visible remains of all the steel elements of the car tires.
还有… Um, you'd also have...
如果你用固体燃料来燃料的话 会剩下很多的灰烬 If you're fueling this with solid fuels, you're gonna have a lot of ash.
如果你要烧掉一具尸体 烧了几个小时的大火 If you're gonna burn up a body and have a huge fire for hours,
想想看 那到处都会是残留物 just think about it, you're gonna have debris everywhere.
可能不是尸体残骸 而是其他东西 It may not even be body debris.
会有其他东西烧着 There's gonna be other stuff burning,
你应该能看到其中的一些是什么 and you should be able to see what some of that is.
当我们谈到负面证据时 So, when we talk about negative evidence,
完全没有任何燃料来源 there's just a complete absence of any fuel source
可以将尸体烧成被发现时的状态 that would've reduced the body to this state that it's discovered in.
这是正确的 另一件事是 如果你让火 That's right. The other thing is, if you keep a fire burning
持续燃烧尸体 uh, with a human cadaver,
不管你加了什么燃料 um, no matter what kind of fuel you're adding,
组织的燃烧 尤其是脂肪 the combustion of the tissue, especially the fat,
会形成一种黑棕色的粘液 creates a black-brown goo,
所以在空地上焚烧尸体时 会留下污渍 and so you're gonna end up with a stain when you burn a body in open ground.
在这个场景中 如果有专家在场 So, at this scene, if they'd had any experts present,
这整个推论可能永远不会出现 对吧？ this whole theory might never have gotten off the ground, right?
没错 任何有犯罪现场经验的人 That's right. Any experienced crime scene person
都会意识到热损伤 would be able to recognize that the thermal damage
和应该存在的残骸 and the residual materials that should be present
如果那里有一场 足以将尸体烧毁至此的大火的话 if there was a large fire here, enough to consume a body to this extent,
却没有残骸 um, they're not there.
你肯定这个烧坑不是 So, you're positive that this burn pit is not the primary burn site
特里萨哈尔巴赫的主要燃烧地 of Teresa Halbach's body.
没错 这里不可能是主要燃烧地 That's correct, yes. This cannot be the primary burn site.
德汉博士很肯定 Dr. DeHaan is very clear that it was impossible
她的尸体不是在那个烧坑里烧毁的 for her body to have been cremated in that burn pit
他肯定没有人的尸体 and that he was positive that no human body
在那个火坑里被烧毁 had ever burned in that burn pit
因为没有灰烬 也没有尸体的残留物 because of the lack of ash and the lack of residue of the body
那些出现在他处理过的 每一个烧伤的尸体案例中 that he's seen in every single one of the burned body cases he's done,
而他比世界上任何人做的都多 and he's done more of those than anyone in the world.
当然关于燃烧坑的所有可疑之处是 And, of course, the whole fishy thing about the burn pit is
没有发现骨头的照片 there are no photographs of the discovery of the bones.
为什么要从犯罪现场带走证据 Why would you transport from the crime scene the evidence
而不是文档和照片 and not document and photograph
仔细地记录下骨头的构成 以及所有这些？ and meticulously record the composition of the bones and all of that?
为什么不那样做？ Why wasn't that done?
缺少文档说明了 The lack of documentation just speaks volumes
为抓到史蒂文艾弗里所做的努力 about what was going on here in the effort to get Steven Avery.
如果尸体没有在火坑里烧掉 If the body didn't get burned in the burn pit,
另一种可能性是什么？ what's another possibility?
当然最好的办法 是把它放在一个封闭的地方 The best thing, of course, is to put it in some sort of enclosure,
最好是金属外壳 preferably metal,
这样就能把辐射热反射回尸体的位置 that will reflect the radiant heat back into the location of the body,
这样就能保证有足够的辐射热 and that assures that there's enough radiant heat
在尸体表面发挥作用 continuing to play on the surface of the body
以保持燃料供应 to keep the fuel supply coming.
在美国各地都有一些案例 There have been a number of cases across the US
尸体被丢弃在前院的燃烧桶中 where bodies have been disposed of in a front yard burn barrel.
事实上我有点惊讶于这个过程的效率 I was actually kind of surprised to see how efficient the process was.
结果从热能的角度来看 And it turns out that, from a thermal energy standpoint,
它们非常成功 they were successful
原因和商业火葬场完全一样 for exactly the same reason as a commercial crematorium.
这些人在威斯康星州的这个地区 他们经常猎杀鹿 These people in this area of Wisconsin, they deer hunt a lot,
目击者说当他们肢解鹿的时候 and one of the things witnesses have said is that when they dress the deer,
他们通常会取下鹿的头 they usually remove the head,
-有些会烧掉鹿头 -好的 and some of them were burning the heads. Oh, OK.
你会发现他们对这个过程很熟悉 So you would figure they would be familiar with the process.
任何经常使用燃烧桶的人都知道 Certainly anybody who routinely uses a burn barrel knows
通风良好的燃烧桶会造成这种破坏 that a properly ventilated burn barrel will accomplish this kind of destruction.
他们想要我 You know, they wanted me.
他们不想要别人 They didn't want nobody else.
我想这就是他们没有进行调查的原因 I think that's why they didn't do an investigation.
但现在我有了凯瑟琳 But here now, as long as I got Kathleen,
我对此很放松 I'm kind of relaxed on all of that.
我完全相信她 I'm putting my faith all in her.
我发现我所有的客户 What I've found with all of my clients is
都必须知道你在做什么 你在想什么 they have to know what you're doing, what you're thinking,
他们需要参与决策 and they need to be part of that decision-making process.
我跟他谈过这些所有的事情 So, I talk to him about all of that,
我认为这对他的心理有帮助 and I think that helps him psychologically.
他对我发现的东西感到惊讶 He's amazed by the stuff that I've discovered.
他非常惊讶 He's just flabbergasted.
他说“去吧 把我弄出去” He's like, "Just go ahead and get me out of here."
他说要出狱 这… And he talks about getting out, which...
让我很高兴 他想过要出狱 That pleases me, that he thinks about that.
我最重要的就是妈妈和爸爸 My most thing is Ma and Dad.
他们都快80岁了 什么事都有可能发生 They're almost 80 and, I don't know... anything can happen.
那是我所害怕的事情 And that's what I'm scared about.
我知道他们想要像以前一样 I know they want to be a happy family
一个幸福的家庭 again like we used to be.
我想看看我能不能把它复原 I want to see if I can put that back together.
可能有点难 但是 Probably be hard a little bit,but
我想我们都离开威斯康星州 我们会好起来的 I figure we all leave Wisconsin, we'll be alright.
给我盖个大房子 Build me a big house
我在一边而他们在另一边 where I'm on one side and they're on the other side
所以我可以照顾他们 so I can take care of them.
我有几辆车 爸爸也能在上面干活 Dad will go as long as I got a couple vehicles so he can work on them, too.
不能带他离开 因为那是他习惯的事情 Can't take him from that, 'cause that's all what he used to do.
一起去钓鱼 把妈妈带到浮舟上 Go fishing together and get Ma on the pontoon
让她驾驶 and let her drive it.
只要他们在 我就想让他们开心 I wanna make them happy as long as they're here.
好了 妈妈 There you go, Ma.
-你想晒太阳吗？ -不了 - Do you want to be in the sun? - No.
你不想晒太阳？ 你穿了一件大毛衣 You don't want to be in the sun? You got a big sweater on.
看看她 你把她的扣子扣好了 Look at her. You got her buttoned right down.
里面很舒服 Nice and comfortable inside.
你超速了 You're speeding.
好了 妈妈 就在这里 去钓鱼吧 There you go, Ma. Right there. Go fish there.
史蒂文艾弗里 2003年
卡鲁米特县监狱
“史蒂文 54岁生日快乐” "Happy 54th birthday, Steven."
“祝你有美好的一天 "Best wishes for an amazing day surrounded by your family
有家人和爱你的人的陪伴” and those who love you."
“告诉史蒂夫生日快乐 来自他的英国支持者” "Tell Steve happy birthday from his UK supporters."
德克萨斯 加利福利亚 苏格兰 南非 Texas, California, Scotland, South Africa,
巴西 西澳大利亚 Brazil, Western Australia.
“希望明年他能 在外面和你一起庆祝” "Hopefully next year he'll be able to celebrate with you on the outside."
我迫不及待地想告诉他有多少评论 I can't wait to tell him how many comments there are.
今天会很有趣 Today will be fun.
生日快乐！史蒂夫
有什么事吗？ Yes?
嗨 Hi.
我真的感觉不舒服 - I really don't feel good.
你病了吗？ Are you sick?
是的 Yeah.
病得不能去看史蒂文了 Too sick to go see Steven?
是的 Yeah. Mm-hmm.
怎么了？你又吐了吗？ What's going on? Are you throwing up again?
不 我没吐 但我真的感觉不舒服 No, I haven't been doing that, but I really don't feel good.
卡拉蔡斯 史蒂文的侄女
从周三之后我就一直这样 I've had this since, what, Wednesday?
卡拉说她会在那儿等你 Carla said she'll meet you up there.
好吧 那我就在那儿见她 OK, well, I will see her there, then.
你休息吧 And you just rest.
好的 Yeah, OK.
好 我会告诉史蒂文 你祝他生日快乐 OK, I will tell Steven happy birthday for you...
还有你爱他 and that you love him.
好的 Yeah. OK.
可以了 好 拜拜 - Alright. - Yeah, bye.
保重 再见 Take care. Bye-bye.
我告诉史蒂文你星期一会去那里 I'll tell Steven that you're going up there on Monday, then.
好的 Yeah.
我让他稍后给你打电话 I'll have him give you a call later.
好 叫他给我打电话 Yeah, tell him to call me.
-告诉他生日快乐 -我会的 - Tell him happy birthday. - I will.
-好了 -好 - So, OK. - Yeah, OK, then.
-休息一下 -好 - Get some rest. - Yeah.
我希望你感觉好点 I hope you feel better.
2016年7月9日 史蒂文的54岁生日
54岁的感觉怎么样？ How does it feel to be... What are you, 54?
还好 Yeah.
我猜妈妈生病了 Yeah, I guess Ma was sick.
那太糟了 Oh, that's too bad.
是啊 - Yeah. - Huh.
一切都会好的 我吃了一些蛋糕 It was alright. You know, I ate some cakes and that...
和一块披萨 and a pizza thing,
几口冰淇淋还有… couple bites of ice cream and...
但是因为妈妈生病了 有点难过 But then, with Ma sick, it's... It was a little hard.
我只是害怕她等不到我出狱了 I'm just scared that she ain't gonna make it until I get out.
人们给我发了她的照片 这让我心烦和生气 People send me pictures of her, and it gets me upset and mad
因为我不能在那里 而且… because I can't be there, and...
时间一去不复返 真是痛苦 It's excruciating having the time, you know, slip away
只是希望他们好好的 and just hoping that they'll be OK.
只是把它想成是糟糕的一天 So, just, you know... Just think of it, like, as a bad day,
但没有那么糟糕 就会好些 你知道吗？ but it's not... You'll be better, you know?
是啊 Yeah, yeah.
你得继续生活 知道吗？ 你必须继续 You gotta keep going, you know? You gotta keep going.
是的 Yeah.
我知道你给了我你能给的一切
我知道所有养育过程的辛苦担忧
继续想着建房子 带她去那里 Just keep thinking about building a house, taking her there.
母亲节快乐 史蒂文
这就是你要去的地方 That's the part of it you're gonna be there for.
是的 Yeah.
那迫使我前进或让我前进的东西… The thing that compels me or keeps me going
凯瑟琳泽尔纳律师事务所
…是我相信其他人 都完全错了的时候 is when I believe that other people have just gotten it totally wrong.
我就是不能放弃 And that, I find, I just can't let that go,
特别是当有人 为此付出生命代价的时候 particularly when it's cost someone their life,
当一切都搞砸了 都结束了… when it's so screwed up, when it's been done...
调查工作做得很糟糕 you know, the investigation has been done so incompetently,
犯罪现场说不通时 这种推论是愚蠢的 when the crime scene makes no sense, the theory is idiotic.
我实在无法接受 That just...I mean...I just cannot not be drawn to that.
我的确是这样认为的 I just really am.
我们真正关注的事物之一 So, one of the things that we've really focused on
是燃烧桶 are the burn barrels.
基拉 你为什么不告诉我你在哪… So, Kira, why don't you tell me where you're at
基拉迪特曼
…就在你对燃烧桶的分析和回顾中 just in your analysis and review of the burn barrels.
11月6日 他们从达赛拖车后面 Yeah, on November 6, they pick up the four barrels
捡起了四个桶 from behind the Dassey trailer.
他们把这些从一号到四号编号 They bring those in, they number them barrel number one through number four.
艾弗里住所 扬达/达赛住所
二号桶是他们最后发现骨头的那桶 Barrel number two, of course, is the one they end up finding bones in.
犯罪实验室的工作人员 在7号或8号进行了搜查 It's actually searched by crime lab personnel on the 7th or the 8th.
但他们并没有发现 任何值得注意的东西 But they didn't really find anything of note.
然后在12日 出于未知原因再次被搜索 Then, on the 12th, it gets searched again for an unknown sort of reason,
那是骨头第一次被发现在那个桶里 and that's when bones are first found in that barrel.
在二号桶里发现骨头
我是说 这看起来很奇怪 - I mean, that seems really odd. - Yeah.
那么辩方律师在审判中 是如何处理这些问题的呢？ So, how are those issues handled at trial by the defense attorneys?
真的很有趣 在二号桶里发现了骨头… It's really interesting. Bones being found in barrel number two...
辩护律师没有询问 犯罪实验室的工作人员 defense does not ask the crime lab personnel who testify about it,
“你觉得你怎么会 在桶里漏掉这些人骨呢？” "How do you think you would've missed these human bones in this barrel?"
他们没有问 They don't ask
最终找到骨头的探员… the agent who eventually finds the bones,
“你知道这是之前搜索过的吗？ "Did you know this was previously searched?
你为什么要回去再查一遍？ Why did you go back and search it again?
你为什么要把它 从仓库里拿出来然后这样做？” Why'd you get it out of storage and do that?"
鉴于这应该是如此关键的证据 Yeah, given that that should be such key evidence.
也很有趣的是 同样的探员和他的搭档 An interesting thing, too, is that the same agent and his partner
找到了那些骨头 who find those bones,
那天早些时候 他们去了鹿营 earlier that day, they went to the deer camp.
鹿营检查
在审判中 他说他看到了几个桶 At trial, he says he saw a couple of barrels.
他的报告只提到了一个 His report only mentions one.
这份报告是16天后写的 奇怪的是它很简短 The report is written 16 days later. It's curiously brief.
没有给出到达或离开的时间 No times of arriving or leaving are given.
在阿丹特沙地和砾石地上 Same for the report of visiting a site
探查的报告也是如此 on what he calls the Radandt Sand and Gravel Lot,
他在审判时声称不记得了 which he claims not to recall at trial.
12日 探员和他的搭档去了鹿营 So, on the 12th, this same agent and his partner goes to deer camp,
去另一个地方 然后回来 goes to another site, comes back,
他们搜索已经被搜索过的二号桶 they search barrel number two again, which has already been searched,
在里面找到人的骨头 and find human bones in it.
错误定罪的神奇之处 What's fascinating about wrongful conviction work
在于警察报告如此重要 is that the police reports are so important...
而在这些案子中是被伪造的 in these cases that are fabricated.
所以如果你认为一个案件是捏造的 So, if you view that a crime is committed when a case is fabricated,
就好像罪犯在记录他在做什么 it's as if the criminal is documenting what he's doing.
真的很有趣的是 And so, what's really almost amusing
看他们在报告里写的那些愚蠢的东西 最终是他们的失败 is to see the stupid stuff they put in the reports that ultimately is their undoing.
艾弗里
值得注意的是 在燃烧坑中 Significantly, with the burn pit,
他们在6日和7日什么也没发现 they don't find anything on the 6th, on the 7th,
然后奇迹般地在8日… and then magically, on the 8th,
在燃烧坑发现骨头
…骨头突然出现在燃烧坑里 the bones suddenly appear in the burn pit.
我是说 它们显然是被栽赃的 I mean, they're so obviously planted.
他们写的报告说 在7日 They write the report that on the 7th,
尸体侦测犬在艾弗里家以西 the cadaver dogs alert on an area that they think is a burial site
他们认为是埋葬地点的地方警戒 west of the Avery property,
就在库斯路旁边 right off of Kuss Road.
疑似埋葬地点 11月7日侦测狗警报
然后在8日 And then on the 8th,
侦测狗在史蒂文家后院的护堤边警报 the cadaver dogs alert by the berm in Steven's backyard.
11月8日 侦测狗警报
这可能会告诉你 这些骨头是怎么运过来的 That tells you probably how the bones were carried over,
很可能在7日 most likely on the 7th.
你在7日还被要求 做了别的事吗 警官？ Were you asked to do anything else on the 7th, Sergeant?
安德鲁科尔伯尔尼警官 审判史蒂文2007年2月20日
我相信我也… I believe I was also...
在某个时候 很明显 指挥所收到了消息 At some point, apparently the command post received word
一些搜索人员发现了一个区域… that some searchers had located an area that...
看起来很可疑 It looked suspicious.
有塑料戳出来 There was plastic poking up from the ground,
看上去地面已经被破坏了 and it looked like the ground had been disturbed.
所以我被要求和 So, I was asked to go that area
威斯康星州犯罪实验室 一起去那个地区 along with the Wisconsin State Crime Lab,
泰森警长和伦克警督 Sergeant Tyson and Lieutenant Lenk,
并协助犯罪实验室挖掘该区域 and help the crime lab if they requested to excavate that area.
你知道这是什么车道吗？ Do you know on what roadway this was?
从库斯出发 白雪松路 I believe it was off Kuss, White Cedar Road.
好吧 这是埃特尔先生昨天谈到的 Alright. This is something that Mr. Ertl yesterday talked about.
可能埋葬地点 但并不是 A potential burial site, but wasn't.
这是你的理解吗？ Was that your understanding?
是的 结果什么都没有 - It turned out not to be? - Yes, it turned out to be nothing.
好的 Alright.
你在7日还做了什么吗？ Did you do anything else on the 7th?
我想当我们结束的时候 I think by the time we were done with that,
这消耗了一天剩下的时间 that consumed the rest of the day.
2005年11月7日 艾弗里家搜索第三天
他们走过去 全都聚集在疑似埋葬地点 They go over and they all converge on the suspected burial site.
他们最终宣布这里完全无关 They ultimately declare there's nothing relevant about it.
但没有人对狗有疑问 But nobody really questions that the dogs,
嗅探狗和尸体侦测狗都在那里 发出了警报 both the scent and the cadaver dogs, alert over there.
嗅探犬追踪到了库斯路 The scent dogs actually track down Kuss Road,
走在通往鹿营拖车的小碎石路上 onto the little gravel road that leads into the deer camp trailers
属于采石场业主所有 that are owned by the property owner of the quarry.
狗过来撞倒了他的燃烧桶 The dogs came over and hit on his burn barrel.
在采石场深处是骨盆骨被发现的地方 Then deeper into the quarry is where pelvic bones are found.
狗撞倒燃烧桶 盆骨发现
艾弗里的汽车厂 发现RAV4
赢得谋杀案审判的方法就是提出质疑 The way that you win a murder trial is to raise doubt,
你通过构建你的故事来提出质疑 and you raise doubt by constructing your story of what actually happened
并指向另一个犯下谋杀案的人 and pointing to someone else who committed the murder.
这是提出质疑的最有效的方法 So, that's the most effective way to raise doubt.
所有州都有一个标准 All states have a standard that allows a criminal defendant
允许刑事被告指向第三方犯罪者 to point to a third party perpetrator.
威斯康星州 他们称之为“丹尼” 其他州的情况则不同 Wisconsin, they call it "Denny." Other states have a different case for it.
这个概念是被告有宪法赋予的 公平审判的权利 The concept is that a defendant has a constitutional right to a fair trial,
而公平审判的一部分 and part of a fair trial
就是能够将矛头指向其他人 is being able to point the finger at someone else
当你被指控谋杀时 when you've been accused of murder.
就是这么简单 It's really just that simple.
丹尼有三个部分： 动机 机会和与犯罪的直接联系 motive, opportunity, and direct link to the crime.
不需要你证明某人犯了谋杀罪 Doesn't require that you prove someone committed the murder,
你只是证明他们可能是凶手 you're trying to prove that they could have committed the murder,
他们有机会 有动机 that they had the opportunity, they had the motive,
与犯罪有直接联系 and there's a direct link to the crime.
这是宪法赋予你的权利 你必须接受公正的审判 So, it's part of the constitutional right you have to a fair trial,
这就意味着你有能力怀疑自己的罪行 and that involves the ability to raise doubt about your own guilt,
你可以指向别人 and you do that by pointing the finger at someone else.
阿丹特采石场 艾弗里车厂
有大量的证据指向相邻房产 And there's an abundance of evidence that points to the adjoining property.
你要从哪儿开始？ So, where do you start?
拥有这个地方的人 You start with the people that controlled that property.
负责采石场的乔希阿丹特 And the person in control of the quarry, Josh Radandt,
在5日的时候 没人知道特里萨的尸体在哪 on the 5th, when no one knows where Teresa's body is,
没有人知道尸体已经肢解 并在燃烧桶里烧毁 no one knows the body has been cut up and burned in a burn barrel,
声称在史蒂文家后院看到过燃烧桶 claims to have seen a burn barrel burning in Steven's backyard.
55加仑
犯罪调查部门视频 2005年11月
这是乔希阿丹特走过的路 This is the path that Josh Radandt traveled...
他在周一观察到火灾的地方… where he observed the fire on Monday...
10月31日 October 31st.
他是第一个把史蒂文 和犯罪联系起来的人 He's the first person who links Steven to the crime.
10月31日下午4点半左右 我从库斯路出发
穿过我的砾石坑 看到了火灾
所以我们只是在建造它 一次一块砖 So, we're just building it, like, a brick at a time,
直到我们认为法院发现其可信 to the point that we think a court would find it credible.
在其他案子中我们也会这么做 你必须非常小心 We've had to do this in other cases. You have to be very careful.
如果事实证明不是他们 那就要去掉 And you have to eliminate people if it turns out it's not them.
迪恩和杰瑞本可以做这些的 Dean and Jerry could've did all of this.
如果他们调查了的话 If they would've investigated it,
他们本可以发现是谁干的 they could've seen who really done it.
他们应该是威斯康星的两位顶级律师 They were supposed to be the two top lawyers in Wisconsin.
我想他们把我的案子搞砸了 I think they screwed up my whole case.
他们没有让专家 You know, they didn't put no experts...
对车里的飞溅物进行检查 with the splatter in the vehicle...
燃烧桶 the burning barrels...
狗的追踪 the dog tracks.
他们对此只字未提 You know, they didn't say nothing about that.
而一切都在那里 And it was all there.
如果他们做了他们应该做的一切 If they would've did everything what they were supposed to,
她正在做的事情 what she's doing,
我不会在这里 I wouldn't be here.
我不用再忍受11年了 I wouldn't have had to suffer for another 11 years.
史蒂文艾弗里给 《联系》杂志的信
我想我在杂志上写过一篇文章 I guess I did an article with a magazine.
讲的是我的两个律师 迪恩和杰瑞 It talks about my two lawyers, Dean and Jerry.
艾弗里把矛头指向了那个法律团队 指责他们把他关进监狱 Avery is turning on that legal team, blaming them for his incarceration.
他最新一封信列出了15项投诉 其中包括缺乏专家 His new letter listing 15 complaints, including a lack of experts
还声称他们忽略了证据 and claiming they ignored the evidence,
他写道两人“根本不会告诉我 我的案子进展如何” writing that the pair "wouldn't tell me what was going on in my case at all."
当天晚上两位对ABC否认这些指控 Those lawyers denying those claims to ABC overnight, saying,
“因为在审判前他还在监狱里 史蒂文没办法立即知道 "Because he was in jail before his trial, Steven could not know immediately
我们为他采取的所有调查步骤” all of the investigative steps we took on his behalf."
我心里明白 为了史蒂文 我们已经尽了最大的努力… I know in my heart that we worked as hard as we possibly could on Steven's behalf
杰利布廷
…我们已经尽力了 and really tried our best.
但在这个案子中有两万五千页的发现 But there was 25,000 pages of discovery
和数百小时的CD、DVD和录音 and hundreds of hours of CDs and DVDs and recordings in this case.
史蒂文艾弗里有非常优秀的律师 Steven Avery had really good, very strong lawyers
积极代表他 who represented him vigorously,
他们不可能… 你知道 他们不可能赢这件案子 and they couldn't... you know, they couldn't win the case.
但我认为 他现在指责他们是错误的 But for him to blame them now, I think, is a mistake,
他们向我们发表了一份声明 and they've issued a statement to us
说他们认为他错了 但他们可以理解 sort of sadly saying that they think he's mistaken,
考虑到他被错误地囚禁了 but that they can understand, considering that he's been falsely imprisoned.
如果你这么晚才接案子的话 你现在就没那么奢侈了… You don't have the luxury at this point, if you're picking up a case this late,
迪恩斯特朗
…忽视重新审判的任何可能的理由 of overlooking any possible reason for a new trial,
任何可能的新证据领域 any possible area of new evidence.
史蒂文艾弗里的律师们应该关注 Steven Avery's lawyers ought to be looking at ineffective assistance of counsel
迪恩斯特朗和杰瑞巴廷的无效协助 by Dean Strang and by Jerry Buting,
就像他们应该寻找每个可能领域的 just as they ought to be looking at every other possible area
新证据发现 of newly discovered evidence...
或者是不太可能的救济理由 or unlikely grounds for relief.
他们没有选择可以浪费 They don't have options to waste.
在采访的另一部分 他询问了受害者的家庭 In another portion of that interview in In Touch, he's asked about the victim's family.
他说“一旦真相大白 And he says, "Once the truth comes out,
我想他们会后悔关于我的言论” I think they'll regret what they all said about me."
他继续说 他有百分之百的信心他会被释放 He goes on to say he's 1,000 percent confident that he'll be released.
所以我觉得我不需要问这个问题 So, how likely... I don't think I need to even ask this.
它可能不会发生 - It's probably not happening. - It's...
他的新律师凯瑟琳泽尔纳 是个很棒的律师 Look, his new lawyer is a terrific lawyer named Kathleen Zellner.
她一直在暗示她有新的证据 She's been hinting that she's got some new evidence
可以释放他 that's gonna release him,
这听起来让史蒂文艾弗里兴奋不已 and it sounds like that's empowering and exciting Steven Avery.
但从我的角度来看 我认为史蒂文艾弗里 But from my perspective, I think it's very unlikely
因此案获释的可能性不大 Steven Avery will be released in connection with this case.
早上好 我是乔伊卡丁 欢迎收听《思想网络》 Good morning. I'm Joy Cardin.
8月12日星期五 威斯康星公共广播电台 This is the Ideas Network of Wisconsin Public Radio on this Friday, August 12.
目前气温为21度 仍然非常潮湿 It is currently 70 degrees, still very humid.
今天早上有阵雨 Some spotty showers out there this morning.
当然我们持续向您播报 We, of course, will keep you posted.
交通很有可能会延误 Traffic delays are a definite possibility
因为绿湾包装工队将进行 今年第一场季前赛 as the Green Bay Packers play tonight in the first preseason game of the year.
来自联邦法院的突发新闻 Breaking news coming out of federal court...
我们有突发新闻 马上进行播报 We have breaking news, and we're gonna go into programming for a moment.
特里萨哈尔巴赫谋杀案的重大进展 A major development in the Teresa Halbach murder case.
联邦法官推翻了 对布兰登达赛谋杀案的判决 A federal judge has overturned the murder conviction of Brendan Dassey.
2016年8月12日
美国联邦法院
今晚的命运大逆转 A major reversal of fortune tonight.
突然间被推翻了 Suddenly overturned.
一名联邦法官 宣布他的谋杀罪名不成立 A federal judge has tossed out his murder conviction.
经过九年的监禁 他可能最终会获释 After nine years of incarceration, he may finally go free.
你不是每天都能听到这样的话： 谋杀罪名被推翻 A murder conviction overturned.
人身保护令 联邦地区法院
联邦法院推翻了布兰登的判决 The federal court overturned Brendan's conviction.
授予人身保护令
这对我们来说是难以置信的消息 This is unbelievable news for us.
我得从地板上爬起来 它太惊人了 I had to pick myself up off the floor. It was that stunning.
达赛的供认是非自愿的
法官写了一份91页的意见书 The judge wrote a 91-page opinion
剖析了布兰登案件中发生的一切 dissecting everything that happened in Brendan's case.
法院做了这个分析然后出来说 “你知道吗？ And the court did this analysis and came out and said, "You know what?
法院对他的供词可靠性表示怀疑” This court has significant doubts about the reliability of his confession."
我是说 这太不可思议了 这就是我们长久以来争论的问题 I mean, this is unbelievable. It's what we've been arguing for so long.
从布兰登离开审讯室那一刻起 It's what Brendan has been saying
他就一直这么说 since the moment he left that interrogation room.
政府有三个选择 即释放布兰登 重审布兰登
或者对法官杜芬的决定进行上诉
那你第一顿饭想吃什么 辣豆酱吗？ Well, what do you want for your first meal? Chili?
我不知道 Um, I don't know.
牛肉片吐司？ Shit on a shingle?
也许 Maybe.
也许 Maybe?
汉堡包 Hamburger.
什么？ What?
也许是一个大的多汁汉堡加一些薯条 Maybe a big, juicy hamburger with some French fries.
绝对是炸薯条 也许是卷薯条 Definitely French fries, maybe curly fries.
是吗？ Yeah?
是啊 因为我好久没吃薯条了 Yeah, because I haven't had French fries in a long time.
你觉得呢 哈？ - You think, huh?
好的 - Yeah.
好的 汉堡和薯条 Alright, hamburger and fries it is.
马尼托瓦克的人们说他们以为所有 对艾弗里-达赛的关注 People in Manitowoc say they thought all the Avery-Dassey attention
最终都消失了 had finally wound down.
有关布兰登达赛可能获释的 The talk about the potential release of Brendan Dassey
传言正在迅速传播 is spreading like wildfire.
在马尼托瓦克县激起了许多意见 Stirring up plenty of opinion in Manitowoc County.
我们今天采访的那些人说 他们对现在可能发生的事情不满意 Those we spoke to today say they're not happy with what might come now.
马尼托瓦克市中心的感觉是失望 The sense here in Downtown Manitowoc is one of disappointment.
他的出狱让城市不安全 It's not safe for him to be out.
我只是祈祷他们再审 然后他就被判有罪了 I just pray that they do a retrial and he's found guilty.
欢迎来到塔狄驰家
当我们敲布兰登母亲家的门时 没有人回答 No one answered when we knocked at the home of Dassey's mother.
我认为布兰登达赛可能很危险 我不知道 I think Brendan Dassey might be dangerous. I don't know.
哈尔巴赫家人会再经历一遍痛苦吗？ The Halbach family is gonna go through it again?
他们已经失去了一个女儿 They've lost a daughter.
我很担心这个家庭 I'm concerned about the family.
他们不得不一遍又一遍地经历这一切 They have to go through this all over again and again and again.
一遍又一遍 Over and over and over and over again.
我们有记者在研究对这项裁决的反应 We have reporters working on reactions to this ruling,
政府方面有任何可能的计划 any possible plans on the part of the State
看看他们下一步打算做什么 to see where they want to go next.
美国司法部对福克斯11频道说 The State Department of Justice told Fox 11
它仍在审查法官的决定 不愿对此发表评论 it is still reviewing the judge's decision and would not comment on it.
我在州外纹身 I was actually out of state getting a tattoo,
布兰登的律师打电话给我们 and Brendan's attorney called us
告诉我们它被推翻了… and told us that it was overturned...
这太令人激动了 which was really exciting.
为布兰登伸张正义
是“为布兰登伸张正义” It says "Justice for Brendan."
这是一只蜻蜓 底部有他名字的首字母 It's a dragonfly with his initials on the bottom.
它实际上代表了变化 And it actually represents change.
这就是我们希望看到的这种变化 And that's what we're hoping for, is change.
他可以回家了 That he gets to come home.
我认为它给了我好运 I think it actually gave me good luck.
真的好运 Really good luck.
我们并没有赢得所有的诉讼请求 We didn't win all of our claims.
我们输掉了对伦恩卡钦斯基的请求 We lost our claims against Len Kachinsky.
法院实际上说 The court actually said,
“尽管我认为这种行为 是站不住脚的 "Even though I find this conduct indefensible,
我被联邦法律 禁止在这里给予宽免” I am blocked by federal law from granting relief here."
法院最终的判决是基于这样一个事实 The court ultimately based its decision
即供认是被迫的 on the fact that that confession was coerced.
法官威廉杜芬的决定 Judge William Duffin's decision
指出调查人员反复告诉达赛 points out investigators repeatedly told Dassey
他们已经知道他做了什么 that they already knew what he did.
在长达91页的判决书中 一名美国地方法官得出结论 In the 91-page decision, a US magistrate judge concluded
调查人员在审讯达西时 多次做出虚假承诺 investigators made repeated false promises while interrogating Dassey.
其他因素 包括年龄 智力缺陷 Additional factors, including age, intellectual deficits,
缺少成年人支持 and the absence of a supportive adult,
让达赛的供认非自愿 rendered Dassey's confession involuntary.
联邦法院说州法院错过了什么 The federal court said what the state courts missed.
他们没有意识到的是审讯的所有情况 What they failed to appreciate was how all of the circumstances of this interrogation
是如何相互影响的 played off one another.
整体的情况 The totality of the circumstances.
未能在全部情况下 对自愿性进行评估
“法院发现2006年3月1日 达赛向警方提交的供词 "The court finds that the confession Dassey gave to the police
在宪法意义上 on March 1st, 2006, was so clearly involuntary
是如此明显的非自愿 in a constitutional sense
以至于上诉法院的判决 that the Court of Appeals' decision to the contrary
是对联邦法律的不合理适用” was an unreasonable application of clearly-established federal law."
不合理的
它接着说 “虽然宽免的情况可能很少见 It goes on to say, "While the circumstances for relief
甚至是不寻常的 may be rare, even extraordinary,
但法院的结论是 it's the conclusion of this court
这个案件代表了 that this case represents the sort of extreme malfunction
国家刑事司法系统的极端故障 in the state criminal justice system
联邦人身保护令的存在 是为了纠正错误” that federal habeas corpus relief exists to correct."
我们现在处于一种观望的状态 We are in sort of a wait-and-see mode now.
州政府会怎么做？ What is the State going to do?
这一供认被排除在证据之外 This confession has been thrown out of evidence.
如果国家要进行重审 If the State were to proceed with a retrial of Brendan,
这一供认将不再是指向 布兰登的案件的一部分 that confession would no longer be part of the case against him.
-这意味着他们没有案子 -没错 - Which means they have no case. - Right.
因为这个案子是完全建立 在认罪的基础上的 Because this case was built solely on that confession.
这显然是说… This is clearly saying...
事实上法院说 “很显然调查人员的行为 In fact, the court says, "It's clear how the investigators' actions
是一种欺骗的审讯手段 amounted to deceptive interrogation tactics
凌驾于达赛的自由意志之上” that overbore Dassey's free will."
所以他们称之为“欺骗性审讯策略” So, they're calling it "deceptive interrogation tactics."
他们在审讯中使用欺骗手段 So, they used deception in the interrogation,
他们用欺骗的手段植入证据 they used deception in planting the evidence.
这个案子是关于欺骗的 是关于不法行为的 So, the case is about deception, and that's about wrongdoing.
这不是一场意外 这一切都发生了 That's not about an accident, you know, that this all happened.
它是故意的 It's deliberate.
你怎么发现的？ How'd you find out?
-我从她那儿想到的 I think from her.
-她？ Oh, from her?
或者我告诉过你？ Or did I tell you?
-他们在监狱里 -我不知道 No, they were in the prison.
-是的 我们在监狱里 -不要介意 - Yeah, we were in the prison. - Oh, yeah, OK. Never mind.
-你在那里？我的天啊 -他们都在那里 - Oh, you were there? Oh, my gosh. - They were there.
我也在那里 I was there, too.
他们和史蒂文在一起？ In there with Steven?
和史蒂文还有奶奶和我爸爸 Yeah, with Steven and Grandma and my dad.
凯拉艾弗里 史蒂文的侄女
你在那里的时候和他说过话 但他没打电话来 You talked to him when you were there, but he hasn't called, has he?
他没有打过电话 He hasn't called, no.
我昨天试着联系他 但明天我会再试试 Yeah, I tried to get a hold of him yesterday, but I'll try tomorrow.
那么布兰登真的能在90天内出狱？ So, Brendan can actually be out before the 90 days?
是的 Oh, yeah.
通常他们会再花一周的时间来研究 So, usually they take, like, another week and look at it,
然后他们说“我们不会重审的” and they say, "We're not gonna retry it."
当他们宣布有人被释放 When they announce that, then someone is freed,
通常就在一天之内 usually within a day or so.
这是非常积极的第一步 This is a big, big positive first step.
对于这整个案子 人们有极大的怀疑 I mean, there's tremendous skepticism and doubt about this whole case.
你有问题吗？ Have you got questions?
他会像布兰登一样出狱吗？ Is he gonna get out just like Brendan?
是的 他会的 Yeah, he will.
他不会同时出狱 Yeah. He won't get out at the same time.
就像你要拆掉一所房子或者 你知道… So, it's like if you were tearing a house down or, you know...
你得在它倒塌之前把地基拔出来 You just gotta pull that foundation out of it before it'll collapse.
所以这是其中很大一部分 And so this is a big part of it.
我想时间和未来会告诉我们一切 I guess time and the future will tell everything.
-是的 -所以… - Yeah. - So...
妈妈就在那儿 Ma was up there.
厄尔先走了 Earl left first.
然后当我回到我的房间 我在电视上看到了他 Then, when I got back to my room, I seen him on TV.
就像他说的 真相总会浮出水面 Like he said, the truth will always come out.
妈妈走后 我在电视上看到了她 Then after Ma left, I seen her on TV.
妈妈好像是 It seemed like Ma was, you know,
半喜半悲 half happy and half sad.
因为她能看到他们中的一个回家 You know, because one of them will come home that she can see.
我以为我会是第一个 I thought I would be first.
他的案子有律师 而我都是靠自己 He had lawyers on his case, and I was doing my own,
这可能就是我慢下来的原因 so that's probably what slowed me down.
所有犯人都跟我说 “你是下一个 I got all the inmates saying, "You're next, you're next.
不会太久的 你也会像他一样走出去” It ain't gonna be long, and you'll be just like him, out the door."
达赛可能被释放的消息 The news of Dassey's possible release from prison
让那些认识特里萨哈尔巴赫的人 感到愤怒和沮丧 has left those who knew Teresa Halbach angry and frustrated.
这一切都始于一篇脸书帖子 It started with a Facebook post asking runners to wear blue,
让跑者穿特里萨最喜欢的蓝色 Teresa's favorite color,
参加本周末在卡鲁米特县 举行的两场不同的比赛 to two different races taking place in Calumet County this weekend.
这是对特里萨哈尔巴赫家庭的支持 A show of support for Teresa Halbach's family.
我想我们都为 特里萨哈尔巴赫家族感到难过… I think we're all feeling pretty bad for the Teresa Halbach family
汤姆布鲁姆
…不得不再经历这些 having to go through the whole thing again.
随着这些消息的出现 With that news coming out
人们更关心这些了 people are more concerned about that.
他们忘记了这对家庭和一切 都是困难的事情 They forget this is hard for the family and everything.
特里萨 信念
整个世界都在往错误的方向看 There's a whole world that's looking at the wrong side of the story.
艾米丽古托斯基
干酪头跑步比赛
整件事令人悲伤 The whole thing is sad.
基姆杜卡特 史蒂文的表妹
不过我不会哭的 I'm not gonna cry, though.
我告诉自己 我没有因为这件事而哭泣 I told myself I wasn't crying over this.
我们必须作为公民团结起来 为正义而战 We have to come together as citizens and pull for what's right.
如果我们能第一次纠正它 If we would've gotten it right the first time,
十年后我们就不会再经历这样的事情 we wouldn't be reliving this ten years later.
我不认为马尼托瓦克县会因此痊愈 I don't think Manitowoc County is ever gonna heal from this.
这很严重 This is big. This is huge.
一个可怜的女人被谋杀了 We got a poor, poor woman that was murdered.
有两个无辜的人在监狱里 We have two innocent people in prison.
我们有制造证据的警察 And we have cops that planted evidence.
你要怎么从中痊愈？ 我想你做不到 How do you heal from something like that? I don't think you can.
我想没人能痊愈 I don't think nobody's ever gonna heal.
但如果能开始愈合就好了 But it would be nice to start a process of healing.
该州仍在权衡选择 The State is still weighing its options,
在布兰登的案子中下一步该做什么 trying to figure out what to do next in the Brendan Dassey case.
后续决定掌握在政府手中… With the decision on how to continue up to the State...
布兰登达赛的定罪被推翻后 威斯康星州司法部长 Wisconsin Attorney General Brad Schimel on what's next
布拉德希梅尔 正在讨论下一步要怎么做 after Brendan Dassey's conviction was overturned.
这个案子可以有很多不同的方向 There are a number of different directions this case can go.
布拉德希梅尔 威斯康星州司法部长
在我们做出选择之前 And before we make a determination as to which option we'll pursue,
我们要给 特里萨哈尔巴赫的家人一个机会 we are going to want to give Teresa Halbach's family
让他们有机会参与进来 an opportunity to have some input.
我们一直在和他们沟通 We've been in communication with them.
我们会继续为他们 概述所有不同的选择 We'll continue to outline for them all the different options,
哪一项会对每个人来说可能最好 what the likelihood of best success are with each one.
我今天点了冰淇淋 I ordered my ice cream today.
是吗？ Yeah?
我要了二品脱 每品脱2.5美元 Yeah, my two pints, but for each pint it's $2.50.
好的 Yeah.
我想我不会再买了 因为… I don't think I'm gonna buy another one since...
我不知道 you know, I don't know,
如果我买了 再过一周左右 他们告诉我我自由了 if I buy one, and in another week or so, they tell me I'm free
我就不能吃了 那就浪费了五美元 and I can't use it, so that's a waste of $5.
是的 Yeah.