Murray Rothard who of course was a historian as well as an economist 众所周知穆瑞.罗斯巴德既是一位历史学家也是一位经济学家
used to dream of a day that there might some day or some place be a historian who understands Austrian economics. 他曾经梦想,某时某地会有一个理解奥地利学派经济学的历史学家
and, I must say he wasn't, he was optimistic about everything he hoped for, but... 他对他所希望的事非常乐观, 但(至今很多事并不如他所愿)
so great that he got to meet and to know Tom Woods before he pasted away. 所以他很在去世之前能与汤姆.伍兹相识实在是一大乐事.
I remember when Tom first came as a student to the Mises University, in 1993 我依然记得1993年当汤姆作为学生第一次来米塞斯学院的时候
and at the closing barbeque he had wanted to meet Murray, and Murray wanted to meet him. 在最后结尾的烧烤时他们都想与彼此见面.
So I noticed them talking together. 当时我注意到他们在聊天,
And I came back maybe two hours later, 大概两个小时以后我回到这个地方,
and they were still right like this, just, you know, talking away. and it was, I thought it was very moving to see it. 他们还在那里谈天说地. 我觉得当时那个场景非常动人
I know it was a great experience for Tom, and it was a great experience for Murray too. 我知道对汤姆来说这是非常棒的经历,对穆瑞来说也是如此.
So, eh, you know Tom Woods, he as a Senior Fellow at the Mises Instituute, 大家都认识汤姆.伍兹. 他是米塞斯学院的资深研究员,
is the author of eleven books, including two best sellers. 11本书的作者, 其中包括两本超级畅销书.
On his way to this proverbial five-foot shelf of books, I guess Tom is. 我猜他差不多要著作等身了.
This is in the 19th centruy, what a scholar would aim at. 在十九世纪学者们都会以此为荣.
He graduated Summa Cum Laude from Havard. 他以最高荣誉从哈佛毕业.
He got his M.Phil and his Ph.D from Columbia University. 在哥伦比亚大学获得了他的(历史)硕士和(历史)博士学位
He has a wonderful and innovative website tomwoods.com, and also libertyclassroom.com 他拥有两个非常棒的网站, tomwoods.com和libertyclassroom.com
Tom is gonna to talk to us, tonight, about Murray Rothbard. 今晚汤姆将要和我们谈谈穆瑞.罗斯巴德.
Lew Rockwell: Dr. Tom Woods. (Applause) 欢迎伍兹博士.
Ok. Alright, thanks everybody. I'm cresting this thing. 很好,谢谢大家. 我现在站得比你们都高.
This has been used for a fact. 这个小门还从来没被用过.
How about this. Just to indicate there is no egalitarianism here. 这样如何. 以此来显示我们这儿没有平等主义
Ok, there is no free access to back here. Yeah, it's closed. 你们不能进来. 没错, 这扇门关上了.
Alright. By the way, I'm not reading off this. But there are points I wanna make when talking about Murray Rothbard. 说起来, 我并不是要从这张纸上读我的演讲. 但是有一些关于罗斯巴德的事我一定要说,
If I forgot to make them, I would be very sad. 如果我不幸忘了说这些事, 我会非常伤心的.
So they are just there to remind me. 所以这只是作为提醒.
Anyway, I have been working on this speech all day. 我为这个演讲准备了一整天,
Of course I don't mean this speech, I mean the victory speech I'm gonna give after I beat Walter (Block) in Chess. (Audience Laugh) 当然我不是说现在这个演讲, 而是在国际象棋上打败布洛克之后的胜利演说.
Now, incidentally just so you know how this got started, 顺带的,让我来告诉你们这个比赛是怎么开始的.
last year, we had a chess tournament at the Mises Institute, bucasuse we had a bunch of grad student who are interested in chess. 去年我们在米塞斯学院进行了一场象棋锦标赛, 因为我们有一群喜欢象棋的研究生.
And it was six Europeans, and me. 当时有六个欧洲人,还有我.
Like all Americans, I have an inferiority complex vis-a-vis Europeans. 我跟很多美国人一样, 面对欧洲人的时候都有一种自卑感.
So being in the tournament, I thought I have no business even in the same room with these people, 所以当时我觉得根本不应该和这些人在一个房间比赛,
alright of course I'm gonna get slaughtered. 这样当然会被他们屠杀嘛.
At the first game of the tournament, I lost. 锦标赛的第一场, 我输了.
So I thought, ah, just goes to show. What am I doing? I'm not even in the same league as these people 于是我想, 事实证明我跟这些人完全不是一个水准的. 我在这儿干嘛?
Then I won all the others, and I ended up winning the whole tournament. 谁知道我赢了后面的所有比赛, 还有这场锦标赛.
So I actually walked around the institute, go "USA! USA!" (Audience laugh) 然后我就绕着学院一边走一边喊"美利坚!美利坚!!:
Well, anyway, we decided for some reason, cuz we knew Walter was a good chess player, 因为我们都知道沃尔特是一个很不错的象棋手,
that whoever wins earns the right to play him at Mises U. 我们之前决定谁赢了锦标赛就可以在米塞斯大学和他单挑象棋.
We decided we would do this, and to our amazement, people showed up! 出乎意料的, 真的还有很多人来看那场比赛.
Right? It was a room full of people watching us play chess. 对吧? 当时一整个屋子的人都在看我们下棋.
I thought wow these kids are dorkier than I could have dreamed. (Chuckle) 我当时想, 哇这些小鬼比我能想象的还要呆.
So anyway we played. 反正我们就下了一场.
Just don't get you hopes up. 不过你们不要期望太高,
Walter and I are pretty decent amateurs, but we are not grandmasters, 沃尔特和我都是不错的业余爱好者, 但我们不是大师.
so don't laugh at us if we commit a blunder or whatever. 所以如果我们下了错棋, 不要嘲笑我们.
It was one of the sort of games where I was clearly ahead. Let's face it, I'm not just saying this. I was clearly a head. I was ahead two pawns. 凭良心讲, 我当时遥遥领先, 赢了他两个兵.
A grandmaster would have resigned out of sheer embarassment, by that point. 要是换做一个象棋大师马上就因为羞愧而认输了.
But Walter tenaciously hang on, 但沃尔特顽强地坚持着,
because after all, what does he do other than "Defend the undefendable". 毕竟他这辈子也不过是在捍卫(双关)无法捍卫的东西. 注: "Defend the undefendable" 是Walter Block 代表作之一, 值得一读.
So he just carried on, doing that. 他就这样, 坚持着.
And I have busted up all of the pawns in front of his king, 我已经把他王前面所有的兵都吃掉了,
but I just couldn't stick the knife all the way in. 但就是没办法给他最后一击.
Then I got into time trouble. 然后我时间不够了,
I just couldn't keep it up, and finally one little error, then BANG! 我没法一直保持专注, 翻了一个小错误, 于是"嘭"!
Walter got me. 沃尔特把我干掉了.
So I realized that it's not just defending the undefendable, 我意识到那不仅仅是捍卫无法捍卫的东西,
this really is, he plays chess the way he fights the fight. 事实上他用同样的方式下棋和战斗.
Right? He finds somebody, there's just one deviation with somebody, then Walter's there, BANG! 对吧? 只要有人稍稍偏离自由至上的原则, 沃尔特就出现了, 嘭!
"You are not a Libertarian!" "你这家伙不能算是自由自上论者!"
So watch out. So anyway, tonight we are going to revisit this. The one request we have for everybody is no wager. 所以小心了. 今晚我们要再战一场. 对大家的唯一要求就是不要在我们身上下注.
Otherwise we would be gald if you just sat here. 我们会很高兴看到你们坐在旁边观战.
Otherwise if you'd rather be drunk, that is fine too. 要是你们想喝得烂醉, 那也没有问题.
Right? We are completely indifferent between these options. 对吧? 这两个选项对我们来说毫无差异.
Audience: "Indifference? @#!" 观众: "无差异?!" 注: 根据奥地利学派所持的序数偏好理论, 行为人的偏好由行为揭示,不存在对可选项中立或所谓"无差异"的态度. 见 Man, Economy & State Ch 4
Oh yeah, right, of course. Maybe I'm not an Austrian or something. 没错. 用了这个词我当然就不能算作是奥地利学派的了.
This being the evening session, it's optional. 今天晚上的这个讲座比较随意.
This means I can get away with saying things I wouldn't say during the formal session, 这意味着我可以说一些更正式场合不会说的话(而不被追究).
Remember after all Austrian economics is descriptive rather than prescriptive; 归根结底奥地利学派经济学是描述性的而不是规范性的,
it's positive rather than normative; 它研究实然而不是应然,
it's describing social phenomena, 它只描述社会现象,
but it's not saying therefore you ought to do X and Y. 但并不做出结论说你应该做某事
So it's not really right to be giving lectures entirely about Libertarianism, 所以花一整个讲座谈论自由至上论并不是很合适.
because as Walter Block points out repeatedly, you could be an Austrian economist, and be a totalitarian socialist, 沃尔特.布洛克已经指出了很多次, 你完全可以既是 奥地利学派经济学家, 又是一个极权社会主义者
because you know that the free market yields social harmony, but you hate mankind, 因为你知道自由市场最终导向社会大同, 但你憎恨人类
so you want to impose socialism. 所以你希望把社会主义强加到人们身上.
That is possible. 这是完全有可能的.
So for all you totalitrarian socialist who applied to Mises University, I don't want to offend you. 所以你们这些申请出席米塞斯大学的极权社会主义者,我不想冒犯你们.
But this being the after hour session, I can sort of get away with some of that. 但是我们现在是在一个不太正式的场合, 我可以毫无顾虑地说一些这样的话.
So in a little bit of what I say and later on second half of what I'm gonna do tonight, 所以我今晚说的尤其是等下后半部分的内容,
it will be a little bit free-willing Libertarian stuff, rather than strictly Austrian economics. 不会是严格意义上的奥地利学派经济学, 而是会包含一些以自由意志为基础的自由至上论.
I want to inoculate you against a cult that's out there. 我希望今晚的讲座能让你们对一种(近似邪教)的狂热免疫.
There is a cult out there in the Libertarian world. 在自由自上论者的圈子里有一种狂热.
I call it the cult of anti-Rothbard. 我把这种狂热称为反罗斯巴德教.
You are going to encounter this, I'm not going to name names or places or institutions, 你们一定会遇到这种情况, 只不过我不想指名道姓,
this is not what I'm here for, I just want to talk about ideas and a great man. 我在这里不是为了攻击某个人或机构, 我只想谈谈理念和一个伟大的人.
It's a cult of anti-Rothbard because you'll encounter people who will be delighted to tell you all about the times they met Milton Freedman. 我叫它反罗斯巴德教,因为你会遇到很多人非常乐意 谈论他们和米尔顿.弗里德曼有过的交集.
"Oh my goodness I met Milton Freedman", "I served him dinner", "I sat next to him", "I paid his bill". Whatever the story is. "噢天哪, 我遇见米尔顿.弗里德曼了","我为他上过菜", "我曾经坐在他身边","我帮他付过账单". 不一而足.
They are all thrilled to tell you about their story of Milton Friedman. 他们在谈论弗里德曼的故事的时候总是极度兴奋.
You begin to realize that with some people, there are only three Libertarians in the whole world. 然后你慢慢意识到, 对一些人来说, 这个世界上只有三个自由至上论者.
There was Hayek, sometimes. Hayek is Ok sometimes, 哈耶克算一个, 但最多有时候能算;
but let's never mention his actual economic contributions, 但这些人从不提及他真正的经济学贡献,
so nothing from the 30s, no Pure Theory of Capital in the early 40s, none of that, none of the stuff he won his Nobel Prize for. 他三十年代的研究, 四十年代初的"资本的纯粹理论", 还有其他为他赢得诺贝尔奖的贡献全都被忽略了.
We don't wanna talk about that, but we will talk about other things about Hayek. Hayek, sometimes. 他们不愿谈论这些东西, 只提及一些其他的东西. 哈耶克, 有时算是自由至上论者.
Basically it's Milton Fredman and John Stossel. 基本上他们只知道弗里德曼和 约翰.斯多塞尔(美国著名新闻主持人和专栏作家).
That's the Libertarian world. 这些家伙的世界就这么点大.
Now that is not to take away from Milton Friedman and John Stossel. 我并不是要贬低弗里德曼和斯多塞尔.
For example, it must have been very very difficult for John Stossel, being with ABC, and trying to say anything remotely libertarian year after year. 举个例子, 在ABC (左倾新闻台) 的那么多年, 约翰.斯多塞尔 在作任何倾向自由意志主义评论的时候一定都遇到很大困难.
I do respect that contribution. 我真心尊重他的贡献.
Likewise we all know and perfectly happy to concede that Milton Friedman was quite good on some things, 同样的我们都知道并且乐于承认弗里德曼在一些事情上相当正确,
and was a good debater, and could present many of the ideas of a free society very very effectively, and could win converts. 他是一个优秀的辩论家, 能非常非常高效地呈现自由社会的理念, 并且使人们改变信念.
Nobody takes any of that away from him. 没人会否认他的这些成就.
It's very odd to me that you will have someone, as accomplished as Murray Rothbard, who basically created the Libertarian movement as we know it, 只是这实在太奇怪了. 像罗斯巴德这样成就卓越的人, 一手创造了我们现在所知的自由至上运动的人,
he was known as Mr. Libertarian, 他以自由至上先生著称,
and there's absolute silence about him. 但是人们总对他保持缄默.
It's not that for every 100 times Milton Friedman is mentioned, Rothbard is mentioned only once! 这个比例不是每谈到弗里德曼一百次, 差不多有人会谈到罗斯巴德一次. 实际情况比这更糟!
I started to say that to Lew (Rockwell) once, in an interviewe I did on his own Podcast, 自从某次在卢自己的播客上采访他以后, 我开始这样说,
I stoped myself and I said it's not for every hundred mentions of Friedman it's one of Rothbard, it's every hundred of zero! 我说着说着意识到, 经常是弗里德曼都被提到一百多次了, 还没有一个人提及罗斯巴德. 一次也没有!
What is happening here? 这算是什么情况?
I can't speculate as to what the motives are, 我没法揣测这些人的动机是什么,
I've got some thoughts, and maybe in the end I'll share them with you, 我大概有一些想法, 或许过一会跟你们说说,
especially if I have a few drinks tonight, I'll definitely share with you. 尤其是要是我今晚喝了一点酒的话, 我肯定就告诉你们了.
OK, let's just think about the contribution of this guy, 好吧, 我们来想一想他的贡献,
alright, then you you will see how creepy this cult is. 然后我们就会发现这个狂热多么令人毛骨悚然.
The fact that this guy's got all these contributions, and you still pretend he doesn't exist, 罗斯巴德有这么多贡献, 还有这些人假装他不存在,
it creeps me out. 我想想就觉得毛骨悚然.
Man, Economy and State. Alright, he writes Man,, Economy and State. 首先是人, 经济与国家. 他写了人,经济与国家.
This thing is about a thousand pages, even if you don't include Power and Market. You should include Power and Market. 这本书大概有一千页, 哪怕你不算权力和市场. 但你应该包括权力和市场.
Then it's in the order of fourteen hundred pages. 那就是一千四百多页.
If you look at this thing closely, you can see that Rothbard was deeply steeped in the economic literature. 如果你仔细看这本书, 你就会发现罗斯巴德对经济文献多么了解.
He was reading the mainstream journals, he was interacting with them. 他阅读主流的经济刊物, 并尝试与他们交流.
In fact it's interesting to know that, I think Joe (Joseph T. Salerno) points this out in his introduction, 有一件很有意思的事情, 乔在他给人,经济和国家写的序言里也指出了这点,
that in fact Rothbard very infrequently even uses the term Austrian economics in that book. 罗斯巴德在这本书里很少使用奥地利经济学这个词.
And when he does use it, it's in quotation marks, it's "so called Austrian economics", 即便他用这个词的时候, 也是在引号里, 或者是"所谓的奥地利经济学",
because what he's trying to teach is just economics. 因为他试着讲授的就是经济学.
He is trying to engage the profession, and steer it to a particular direction. 他试着与经济学家们交流, 然后引导他们向某个特定的方向.
So he's not just some kid who studied under Mises and learned some funny one-line or something. 他不是什么在米塞斯门下只学了一招半式的小鬼,
He absorbed what he learned from Mises, he built on what he learnt from Mises, and he also knew what the profession were saying. 他吸收了从米塞斯学来的理论, 在此基础上继续建构, 他也知道其他经济学家在说些什么.
This particular book plays a central role in the history of the modern Austrian school. 这本书在现代奥地利学派的发展中有核心的作用.
And it's written in a beautiful, elegant style, 这本书的行文风格优美而高雅,
it's written in the tone of a scientist. 是以科学家的语气写成的.
It's not written as a polemic. 它也不是作为辩论性的作品写成的.
It's something you feel a sense of accomplishment just reading it, 这本书你哪怕只是读读都会有很强的成就感,
imagining what's like writing it. 想想真的写的时候是什么感觉.
He started writing in his late twentieth, and it came out when he was 36 years old. 他从二十七八岁的时候就开始写这本书, 三十六岁的时候写完.
Now I'n truning 40 next week, that's depressing me very much. 我下星期马上就四十岁了, 这件事让我非常沮丧.
So I insist you ask me this week repeatedly how old I am, 所以我坚持你们反复问我几岁了,
so that I can say 39 last a few times. 这样我可以最后说几次我才39.
I remember when I turned 36, I thought to myself, well, not big treatises for me. 我记得我刚到36的时候, 我想, 好吧, 我是(在36岁之前)写不出伟大的专著了.
My 36th year has come and gone, and there no such (a thing). 我36岁的那一年过去了, 也确实没写出这样的书.
So if he stopped there, we would say that's pretty good job, right? 所以哪怕他自此不再创作 , 也很了不起了, 对吧?
Most people go through their lives not writing original pioneering economic treatises. 大部分人过一辈子都没写出有原创性的经济专著.
That's good. 很棒了.
But he also in the same year, published The Panic 1819, 但是同一年他还发表了1819的大恐慌这本书.
which was more or less his doctoral dissertation with Columbia University. 这本书差不多是他在哥伦比亚大学博士论文.
The Panic of 1819: a case study, a real study of an episode in US history. 1819年大恐慌:案例研究, 是一本真正的美国历史研究.
This book, if you look at the major historical journals, the American Histroical Reviews, all these historical journals, they all praised this book unreservedly. 这本书在主流历史刊物上受到了毫无保留的赞扬.
This is the definitive work. 这本书是决定性的.
And it gave me great pleasure years ago in grad school, I was reading a book on Jacksonian America, 很多年之前在研究生院的时候, 我读到一本书大受鼓舞，
the bibliography of it said, for the panic of 1819, see Murray Rothbard's book The Panic of 1819, which is likely to remain definitive. 这本书的参考书目说, 1819年的大恐慌, 参见穆瑞.罗斯巴德的1819年的大恐慌. 这本书很可能会一直是决定性的.
I thought, good! See? It goes to show, againt 我当时想, 看到了吧, 事实再次证明,
he interacted with the mainstream, he made real contributions that were appreciated and recongnized. 他和主流学界沟通,
But that was not always so. 但罗斯巴德的贡献并不总是得到承认。
1963, came America's Great Depression, 1963年, 罗斯巴德写了美国大萧条,
that was the same year of the Friedman and (Anna) Schwartz book, The Monetary Hostory of the United States book. 同年弗里德曼和安娜.施瓦茨的书美国货币史也出版了.
That book got all the attention, 弗氏和施氏的书吸引了所有的注意,
particularly that section involving the great depression. 尤其是涉及大萧条的那个部分.
Rothbard's book did not get that much attention, 罗斯巴德并没得到多大关注,
yet today it's in a 5th edition, 但今天已经出到了第五版,
and the 5th edition has a forward by Paul Johnson, the British historian, sort of iconoclastic British historian. 第五版的序言是英国历史学家保罗.约翰逊写的. 他也是一个打破旧习的学者.
It was he recongized the merits of this book when he wrote his, which I think is a terrific book, Modern Times: the world from the 20s to the 80s. 他在写自己的现代社会: 20到80年代的世界这本书的时候赞赏了罗斯巴德的书.
I recommend by the way, if you ever read that book, don't get his later edition - the world from the 20s to the 90s, 说起来我推荐你们都这本书的时候不要买包括90年代的新版本,
just get the Modern Times up to the 80s, because in the 90s, then he starts supporting the Iraq war, it's just Neo-Con, terrible. 买那个讲到80年代的旧版本就好了, 因为90年代约翰逊就开始支持伊拉克战争, 新保守主义, 糟透了.
But the rest of it is pretty good. 其他部分都还不错.
And he recongizes the importance of the Rothbard book, 他承认了罗斯巴德这本书的重要性.
Basically Rothbard was saying that the Federal Reserve was to blame for the crash, 基本上罗斯巴德就是说美联储对当时的股市崩溃负有责任,
and subsequent economic policy by the government was to blame for why the depression itself went on so long. 随后政府的经济政策应该对延长的萧条负责.
He's doing two revisionist tasks in the book. 他在书中完成了两个(历史)修正性的任务.
The better known one is he's showing Herbert Hoover was not actually doing nothing like some doofus, 比较知名的这个是他解释了赫伯特.胡佛(美国第三十一届总统)并不是像个蠢货一样什么都不做,
while the depression's washing over the country, he's just sitting there. 就任由萧条席卷全国.
If only that had been the case ! 要是事实真是如此就好了.
In the contrary, he's intervening in all different areas as many of you know 恰恰相反, 他在各种可能的领域都进行了干预. (很多罗斯福时代的荒谬政策都是以胡佛的干预政策为基础的, 见美国大萧条或伍兹自己的另类美国史.)
That was an innovation, historically speaking. 从历史学角度来说, 这是一项创新.
But secondly, to go back and trace back the Federal Reserve policy in the 1920s, and to identify the inflation that was ongoing, 其次就是追溯美联储1920年代的货币政策, 并识别出当时正在发生的通胀.
this is also an contribution. 这也是一向贡献.
He's not the first one you can find. 他不是第一个这样说的人.
There's a book from 1937 that does a little bit of analysis like this, 1937年有一本书作了一些类似的分析.
Lionel Robbins had an Austrian view of the Great Depression in 1934, called the Great Depression. 利奥尼尔·罗宾斯 (曾任伦敦政经系主任, 期间邀请了哈耶克加入伦敦政经) 1934年以奥地利学派视角写过一本叫大萧条的书,
But that was more looking at Europe than the United States. 但他的考察重点是欧洲而不是美国.
Still, to say that the Fed did it, but not for the reason Friedman says the Fed did it, 无论如何, 论证说是美联储把事情搞砸的, 而且不是因为弗里德曼所说的原因
it's not that the Fed just did not create enough money. 并不是说美联储没有创造足够的货币.
That's not the explanation. 这不是罗斯巴德的解释.
It's not the issue that the 1920s were fine and tranquil, but the problem was once the downturn came, the Fed didn't do enough to increase the money supply, when there was a collapse in the money supply by about one-third. 并不是说二十年代一切都风平浪静, 然后等到经济低迷, 货币供应暴跌三分之一的时候美联储没有创造足够的货币.
Rothbard won't have any of this, 罗斯巴德不会这样说.
And he goes and encounters all this. 他实际上反驳了这种说法
This is very important. 这非常重要.
Why is this important, well, for one thing, it is important to tell the truth; 为什么很重要呢? 首先, 说出事实是非常重要的;
but secondly, right now today, with the Austrian School getting all this attention, 其次, 在奥地利学派获得这么多注意的时候,
now natrually, what are people gonna ask, 很自然的人们就会问,
what are people gonna ask after the Austrian School is getting some attention because our people disproportionally predicted the crisis, 因为很大比例的奥地利学派的追随者都预料了这次危机,
people are gonna ask, how did you know, and did you predict other things? 人们就会问, 你们怎么知道的? 还有你们有没有预言其他的事情?
Is this just some one-ff fluke? 这会不会是一时侥幸?
Did you just happened to have a crystal ball or tea leaves, or a deck of Tarot cards for this case, but you are clueless on the other ones? 这次你们是不是刚好有个水晶球, 茶叶, 或者塔罗牌什么的, 但是对其他事情都一无所知?
Because of contributions like The America's Great Depression, The Panic of 1819, 因为像美国大萧条和1819大恐慌这样的贡献,
we can see there are Austrian explanation for these earlier things. 我们能够发现这些早先的事件也有奥派视角的解释.
This is drying the establishment crazy,that now suddenly an interest in the Rothbardian view, not only of current events, but also of the Great Depression. 这种对罗斯巴德历史观点的突然兴趣, 让既得利益者发疯.
I just made a video on my Youtube channel, 我刚刚在我的Youtube频道上做了个视频,
against David Frum. those of you are from Canada, you have a lot of explaining to do. 来反驳大卫.弗卢姆. 加拿大来的, 你们要好好解释一下这家伙是怎么回事.
Take this guy back with you, on your way up. 你们北上回国的时候把他也带走吧.
David Frum was so upset the other day. 那天大卫.弗卢姆特别心烦.
He said I can't believe how many conservatives now, have moved away from believing in Milton Friedman's view about the Great Depression, 他说:" 我没法相信有现在这么多保守主义者不再相信弗里德曼对大萧条的解释,
over to, he can't bring himself to say Rothbard, he said Mises' of the Great Depression. 转而相信, 他没法说出罗斯巴德的名字 (==! Seriously?), 他说米塞斯对大萧条的解释.
This just appals him. 他大受惊吓.
Now for one thing, if only most conservatives in America even knew who Milton Friedman was, 首先, 哪怕大部分的美国保守主义者只是知道弗里德曼是谁就很好了,
much less Murray Rothbard. 不要说穆瑞.罗斯巴德了.
I mean, I think we are giving these people a little bit more credit than they have shown they deserve, 我觉得我们把这些人想得太聪明了,
I mean with their Operation Desert Storm hats and whatever else. 想想吧他们还戴着支持沙漠风暴行动(1991年美国领衔的对伊拉克军事行动代号)的帽子之类的东西.
But secondly, of course the key thing is not just it annouys him, 其次, 关键还不是这件事惹恼了他,
but the fact it's happening in a scale what would come to the attention of David Frum. 而是这件事发生的规模吸引了大卫.弗卢姆的注意.
There are young people, probably not in the conservative movement naturally, 在美国有一些年轻人, 自然的应该不是在保守主义阵营里,
but there are young people who are interested in these alternative explanations. 反正就是有年轻人对这样的替代解释感兴趣.
There wouldn't haven been one if there hadn't been Rothbard. Rothbard did that. 如果不是罗斯巴德, 根本不会有这样的解释存在.
At that time, this was published in a very little fan-fair, and it never bother him. 美国大萧条这本书第一次出版是在一个很小的仰慕者集会上, 但罗斯巴德从不以此为意.
He had a much smaller audience than the merits of this man demanded. 当时他只有远小于他所应得的受众.
He just carried on. 但他一直坚持.
We have here a book called Economic Controversies, a collection of a lot of Rothbard's scholarly articles. 我们(米塞斯研究院)有一本叫经济学争论的书, 是罗斯巴德的学术论文集.
Well that's great. These are wonderful articles, they are great contributions too. 这是一本很棒的书, 里面都是极好的文章. 这也是了不起的贡献.
Then I love the book of essays -- Egalitarianism: a Revolt against Nature. 我自己尤其喜欢这本文集, 平均主义: 对自然的反叛.
In there you will find two essays that are mind-blowing, in a book that's mind-blowing. 在这本令人惊叹的书里, 你会看到两篇令人惊叹的文章.
War, Peace, and the State, absolutely pioneering on Libertarian foreign policy, number one. 战争, 和平, 和国家, 绝对是自由至上论外交政策的先驱.
Roderick (T. Long) had built on that. 罗德里克在这基础上做了工作.
Secondly, Anatomy of the State, you never look at the world the same way again after you read those things. 解剖国家机器, 读过之后你再也不会以同样的方式看这个世界了.
These are just a couple of essays. 这几篇文章只是罗斯巴德作品中的沧海一粟.
If somebody wrote just those essays, people have been spining out thoughts based on that ever since he did those, 如果哪个人一辈子就写了这么些文章, 然后人们在这基础上发展了很多理论,
that would be considered a contribution. 这也会被看作是一项贡献了.
He wrote a two-volume History of Economic Thought. 他写了两卷本的经济思想史. (译注, 他在计划的第三卷完成前去世, 但是大纲已在之前的讲座中大致成型, 可在Mises.org 免费下到)
So he knows pretty much what everybody who ever said anything about economics ever said, 所以他基本上知道所有关于经济学说过一言半语的人说了什么,
and he and evaluate it and critique it. 而且他可以评估这些理论.
Believe it or not, there are some people who will be impressed by that. 行不行由你, 有些人会对此感到钦佩的.
This is a pretty smart guy, maybe I should talk about him. 这家伙满聪明的, 也许我应该谈一谈他.
Not if you belong to the cult of Anti-Rothbard, you are not to mention this man. 但你要是属于反罗斯巴德教, 你就不会提到这个男人.
Not to mention him, citizen, look the other way. 不准提到他, 公民们, 装作看不到.
Then as a spare time project, he writes a four volumn history of colonial America, called conceived in liberty. 然后还有一个业余时间做的项目, 他写了一部四卷本的殖民时期美国历史, 叫做在自由中孕育.
Now the Institute has now put that out as a single volume, 最近米塞斯研究院把这部书并作一册出版,
which I think they did partly cuz they have a good sense of humor. 我觉得他们这样做一部分是因为他们有很好的幽默感.
Because if you look at the size of this thing, it's like they are looking to set a world record or something, with the size of this book. 你看一下这册书的厚度就知道了. 就好像他们要以此来创造一个世界纪录之类的.
You look at how conversed he is with the secondary literature, of the colonial America, it's unbelievable. 你会发现他对殖民时期美国历史的二次文献是多么的熟悉. 难以置信!
The guy is an economist, who has so mastered the Austrian school. 这个人是一个经济学家, 奥地利学派的大师.
By the time he was 36, he wrote a pioneering treatise a thousand pages long, 在他36岁的时候, 他写了一部开创性的专著, 一千多页长.
but he also know so much about colonial America. 但是他关于殖民时期的美国又知道这么多.
And then For a New Liberty: the Libertarian manifesto from the early 1970s. 再然后是七十年代写的为了新的自由: 自由至上论者宣言.
Here at the Mises Institute, you can actually listen to that for free on audiobook, if you look at the Mises media section. 在米塞斯学院的网站上, 你可以免费听到这本书的有声版, 只要你在米塞斯媒体页面搜索一下就能找到.
The Ethics of Liberty, a work of philosophy, 自由的伦理, 一本哲学著作,
extending the Lockean self-owner principle, and spinning out what its implications are. 推广了洛克的自我所有权原则, 并详细阐述了它的涵义.
Then we have smaller works. 我们也知道他有很多短小的作品.
I like this one called Wall Street, Banks, and American Foreign Policy. 我很喜欢一票叫做华尔街, 银行, 和美国外交政策的文章.
This is a thing that he wrote for an inverstment newsletter, 这篇文章是他写给一个投资者时事通讯的,
like a 20,000-word essay, for an inverstment newsletter. Maybe it had 200 subscribers. 大概两万次长, 写给一个有差不多两百个订阅者的时事通讯.
It was never seen again until someone found it in the archive and it was published. 它一直到某个人在档案室找到并重新出版的时候才重见天日.
This gem would have just lost forever. 这颗宝石搞不好就永远消失了.
Who knows how many things like this he wrote that we don't even know about. 谁知道想这样我们都不知道的作品还有多少.
He wrote zillions of articles on top of it. 除此之外他还写了无数的文章.
He wrote a book on education, The History of Education, 他写过一本关于教育的书, 教育的历史.
The Mystery of Banking, on how banking works. 金融体系的秘密, 关于银行的运营方式.
Of course you guys have read What Has Government Done to Our Money, which is a great classic. 你们想必都读过政府对我们的钱做了什么 (国内翻作为什么我们的钱变薄了), 那是一本了不起的经典.
He wrote capters in books; he edited the Libertarian Review; he edited Left and Right; 他写过很多书籍专章; 他编辑过自由至上主义评论; 他编辑过左与右;
he founded and edited the Journal of Libertarian Studies; he founded and edited and Review of Austrian Economics. 他创办并编辑了自由至上主义研究杂志; 他创办并编辑了奥地利学派经济学评论.
He was also a movie reviewer, wrote zillion movie reviews, 他还是一个电影评论家, 写了很多影评.
he kept up correspondence with a whole bunch of people, we've got the archive to prove it. 他和很多人保持通信. 我们有文献来证明.
Now if you've heard about a guy like this, pioneering in so many areas, extending Libertarian insights into so many areas, 如果你听说了这样一个人, 在这么多领域有创见, 把自由至上论的洞见延伸到这么多方面,
would your first instinct be, I better not ever mention this man? 你的第一反应会是我最好不要提到这个男人么？
There's something deranged about this, right? There's something not right in the head, 肯定有什么不对劲, 对吧? 这样想的人脑子肯定有问题.
if you were to say, this guy, nah, nah, 要是你说, 这家伙, 不不不
nah, I just want to talk about, I don't want to mention names, but lesser figures, we will say. 不, 我只想谈论XXX, 我不想提到具体名字, 就说是不那么伟大的人吧.
I think back to my own experiences with the guy (Rothbard), which were very limited. 我回忆我自己和罗斯巴德相处的经历, 其实很有限.
I only met him for only four or five times, but memorable obviously, you meet somebody like this. 我只遇到过他四五次, 但是显然每一次都记忆犹新, 如果你遇到这样一个人的话.
By the way, I shoudl point out, obviously I'm not saying that anybody in this world is infallible, 顺带的, 我应该说清楚, 我显然不是说世界上有任何人是永远正确的,
or you have to kneel down before his image, kiss it, or pray to him, or any of this, 或者你要在他的像面前下跪, 亲吻这个画/雕像, 或者向他祈祷之类的,
this is ridiculous caricature, no one has ever said this. 这是荒谬的戏仿, 从没有人这样说过.
Same thing with Mises or any great man, you should admire a great man. 对米塞斯或者任何伟大的人来说, 你应该钦佩一个伟大的人.
It doesn't mean every single word you have to agrre with, but you should admire a great man. 这并不意味着你必须同意他/她所说的每一个字, 但你应该崇敬一个伟大的人。
It's just simple. 就是这么简单。
I remember I got to meet him at the Mises University program in 1993 and in 1994, 我记得我在1993和1994的米塞斯大学项目中和他相识,
he came out Mises U 1993, he gave the openning night lecture, he gave the lecture that Bob (Robert) Higgs gave the other night. 他在1993年的米塞斯大学做了开营讲座, 就是前几天晚上鲍勃.希格斯作的那个讲座
He was talking about a whole bunch of things. 他说了各种各样的事情.
He started talking about the panic of 1819, 然后他开始谈论1819的大恐慌,
I didn't know he had written a book on this. 我当时不知道他还写过关于这个的书,
So he started off by saying, I'm the world's foremost expert on the panic of 1819. 他说在1819大恐慌这个问题上我是世界首位的专家.
Then I thought, my gosh, oh boy, this guy's got a big head. 然后我想, 天哪, 这个人真是有一点聪明的.
Then he said because I'm the only one who's ever written a book on it, then he laughs, keckles. 他解释说:"因为我是唯一一个以此为题写过书的人." 然后就开始咯咯大笑。
He goes on. 然后他就继续了.
The next time, I met him at a conference later that year. 第二次, 我在一个研讨会上又遇到他.
So Mises U 1914, I'm standing there talking to some students, Rothbard walks in, and he waves and says Hi, Tom! 在然后就是1914年的米塞斯大学, 我站着在和一些学生聊天. 罗斯巴德走进来, 然后朝我挥挥手, 说嗨, 汤姆!
I just thought, Yeah, that was Murray Rothbard waving at me. 我很得意的想, 哼哼, 罗斯巴德在朝我挥手呢.
Hey, how are you doing. 嗨, 你最近怎么样.
At that event, at one point actually, we were having a conversation, 就是那次, 我们面对面谈了一次话.
I said, Professor Rothbard, I've always wantted to ask you... 我说, 罗斯巴德教授, 有一件事我一直想问你...
He said, Oh, call me Murray. 他说, 喔, 叫我穆瑞就好了.
You know, I just don't think I can. 我真的不觉得我能这样称呼他.
I mean, thanks, I appreciate that, 谢谢, 我对此很感激,
but that's just not gonna happen. 但我就是不能这样叫你.
I remember Lew Rockwell emailed me, in December 1994, and said, 我记得1994年十二月卢.洛克威尔发了个邮件给我,
Murray maintained two residencies, he was out in Las Vegas, 穆瑞有两处住所, 他有时住在拉斯维加斯,
I can call him Murray now that he's gone, cuz I don't feel so intimidated anymore, 我现在叫他穆瑞是因为他已经过世了, 我不再(对他的智识)感到那么害怕了,
out in Las Vegas he had a place, and in New York he kept his apartment, 在拉斯维加斯他有一处房产, 在纽约他也有一个公寓,
so he was gonna be in New York for the holidays, and Lew said Murray would like to get together with you. 所以节假日的时候他会在纽约, 卢跟我说穆瑞希望跟我见个面.
Here's his number, give him a call. 这是他的号码, 给他打个电话吧.
It's kinda like how you feel the first time, 那种感觉就好象你第一次,
I'm sure I'm (not) the only guy who's ever done this, 我相信肯定只有我这么做过(反语),
the first time you call up a girl on a date, 第一次打电话约女孩子出去,
you write out the thing you are gonna say or whatever, 你把你要说的东西全部写在纸上,
cuz what if I draw blank, this would be a disaster. 因为要是我突然没话说了, 就会变成一场灾难.
So I did that. 所以我就在纸上写了很多东西.
But of course with Rothbard, he would fill in all the blanks, right? 其实和罗斯巴德打电话他完全会把空白都填满, 对吧?
Adah dah dah dah dah~ I'm very glad to talk to you. 阿哒哒哒哒哒, 很高兴和你聊天~
But of course that was not to be, 但不幸最后我们没见成面,
I did talk to him on the phone, but he passed away in January of 95. 我跟他通了话, 但是他95年一月就过世了.
I think back to things he sort of taught me, 我会想起他教会我的东西,
it's not just the stuff I can learn reading the books. 绝不仅仅是我能从书中学到的东西.
It's also about how to live as a human being, and how to be a scholar. 他也教会了我怎样作为一个人生活, 还有怎样做一个学者.
One of the things that everybody concedes about him, even people who can't bring themselves to mention his name, 关于罗斯巴德有一件事所有人都承认, 即便是那些不愿提及他名字的人.
if they did mention his name, they would never claim that he was arrogant. 要是他们真的提到他的名字, 他们绝对不会声称他傲慢.
No one ever said that. 从来没有人这样说过.
They say other things about him, they never say he was arrogant, 他们说他其他的坏话, 但绝对不会说他傲慢自大,
because everybody knows that's a lie. 因为所有人都知道这不是真的.
Rothbard was so interested, he was convinced that the world was such a fascinating place, 罗斯巴德非常确信这个世界是一个引人着迷的地方,
there were things to be learned everywhere, 到处都是值得学习的东西,
and people's brains are full of nuggets maybe he could extract or somehow, 而且人们的脑袋里都是他可以提取的金块,
he could learn from everybody. 他确信他可以向任何人学习.
So you would be some dumb student, present company excepted you understand, 哪怕你就是一个愚钝的学生, 当然在座的各位不算啦,
you would just be some kid, he would listen to you respectfully. 你就是一个小毛孩, 他也会非常尊重地听你说话.
None of this air of "I'm Murray Rothbard, how dare you. You are not even worthy to walk on my ground." 完全没有这种 "我是穆瑞.罗斯巴德, 你怎么敢, 你根本不配在我的土地上行走" 的感觉.
None of this stuff. 完全没有.
He would encourage people. 他总是鼓励人们.
If he saw any glimmer of interest in anything, he would encourage it, he would build people up. 他要是看到对任何事的哪怕一点点兴趣, 他会鼓励这种兴趣, 他会帮助人们发展.
Walter (Block) carries on that tradition today with his students. 沃尔特延续了这种对待学生的传统.
If he sees any inkling of literacy at all among people, 要是他在一个人身上看到一丁点读写能力的暗示,
he says, Man, you might be the next Mises. 他就会说, 哇, 你会成为下一个米塞斯的.
He doesn't quite do that. 他并没有那么夸张.
But the point is he encourages people. That was how Rothbard was. 但重要的是他会鼓励人们. 罗斯巴德当年也是这样做的.
So I remerber in particular, there I am, 1994. 我记得特别清楚, 1994年,
It's an event that the Mises Institute's putting on, commemorating the one-hundredth of the anniversary of the Birth of Henry Hazlitt. 在米塞斯研究院举办的庆祝亨利.赫茲利特一百岁生日的活动,
They had an event in New York city. 这个活动是在纽约城办的.
I was living in New York city in that time for grad school. 我当时住在纽约上研究生院.
So I went. This is incredible. I just get onthe subway and I go to a Mises event, unbelievable. 我就去了. 真是不可思议, 我坐上地铁就可以参加米塞斯研究院的活动, 太棒了.
I sat down. Later in the program who walks in but Rothard. He sits right next to me. 我坐下不久罗斯巴德走进来, 就坐在我旁边.
So I thought, Jesus, this just gets better and better all the time. 我当时想, 天哪, 事情越来越好了.
Then he's sitting there listening, he'll make little side comments during people's talks. 他坐在哪儿听别人讲座的时候会发表一些简短的评论,
You know, dah dah dah dah dah~ 比如说, 你知道吗, 哒哒哒哒哒~
Which is sort of like what David Gordon does today, 跟今天大卫.戈登做的差不多,
except you could repeat to your mother the things that Rothbard said. 唯一的区别是你可以跟你妈重复罗斯巴德说的内容.
I specifically recall just what a genuine regular guy he was. 我记忆犹新他是多么普通的一个人.
Here is a guy who had done theoretical work on the subject of punishment and proportionality. 这个人写过关于刑罚和相称性原则的理论著述.
You commit a crime, what is the appropriate punishment for that crime. 你犯了罪, 适当的刑罚是什么之类的东西.
Super super sophiscated stuff. 超级超级复杂的著作.
And there he is at this Hazlit event, this was right around the time that Jeffrey Dahmer was in the news, 而他在这个赫茲利特活动的时候, 差不多杰弗里.达默尔还经常出现在新闻报道里,
you guys are too young to know this, but Jeffrey Dahmer was a serial killer who ate his victims, 你们那时候还太小, 杰弗里.达默尔是一个吃了他的受害者的连环杀人犯,
there were body parts in the refrigerator, horrible. 很多身体部位在他的冰箱里被发现, 非常可怕.
He was killed in prison. 他在监狱里被杀了.
The other prisoners just said, you know, we are pretty rotten but that, you just can't do that. 大概其他囚犯想了想说, 我们的确算很堕落了, 但是这种事是绝对不能容忍的.
Rothbard leaned over to me at one point and said, Oh by the way, did you hear about Jeffrey Dahmer? 某个时刻罗斯巴德凑过来对我说, 话说你听说杰弗里.达默尔的事了嘛?
They Got Him ! 他们把他干掉了!!
Come on, it's a regular guy. It's a regular guy. 是吧, 他就是一个普普通通的人.
But another aspect of this lack of arrogance is that he, 他平易近人还有另一个方面.
I heard this rumor about him, that he correspond with you, even if you were just some schmo. 我听说他会跟你通信, 不管你是怎么样的愚钝.
You wrote him a letter, he would wrte back to you. 你给他写一封信, 他会给你回信.
Where he found the time, I don't know. 我都不知道他哪儿来的时间.
But he would write back to you, even if you were some schmo. 反正他就是会给你回信, 哪怕你是个呆瓜.
And I thought to myself, I'm gonna test out this theory, I'm some schmo. 然后我想, 让我来试试这是不是真的, 我是个呆瓜啊.
Let's see if he write to me. 看看他会不会给我回信.
So I wrote actually. I wrote to him because I had read somewhere, about this pamphlet by Robert LeFevre, 于是我就真的给他写信了. 我在某处读到关于罗伯特.勒菲弗写的一本小册子,
about the transformation of the American right, and evolution of the US foreign policy during the cold war. 讲的是美国右派的转变和冷战时期美国外交政策的演变.
I thought this would be great, I would love to get this. 这本册子看起来很棒, 要是能找到就太好了.
But where in the world would I find a pamphlet from like 1964. 但我到哪儿去找一本1964年的小册子啊.
So I wrote to Rothbard, and let's see if this guy is going to write back to me. 所以我写信给罗斯巴德, 看看他会不会回信给我.
Not only did he write back to me, he sent me two copies of the pamphlet! 他不但回信了, 还寄了两本小册子.
In our anthology I did with a friend of mine on the left, which you can find in the book store here, We Who Dare to Say No to Way, 我后来和左派朋友编了一本选集, 叫对战争说不的人, 你可以在这里的书店找到.
we reproduced this pamphlet. 我们在那本选集里重新印了这个小册子.
So it now sees the light of the day, and now it would be immortal. 于是它就重见天日了, 以后所有的人都能看到它.
It's great because Rothbard wrote back to me. 这都是因为罗斯巴德给我回信了.
I probably wouldn't have written back to him, if it had been reverse. I'm too busy. 如果位置互换的话搞不好我就不会给他回信了. 我太忙了.
How can I do it? 我怎么可能有空给所有人回信?
And yet he does simple little things. 但是他就会做这些简单的小事.
He was discouraged as I said by the size of his audience. 就像我说的, 他从不因为受众的大小而沮丧.
He should have a gigantic audience. 他应该有一个庞大的听众.
I mean a guy with one-tenth of these accomplishments, could retire with pride. 一个只有他十分之一成就的人, 也可以骄傲的退休了.
This was an age before the Internet, an age with a even more statist outlook than we have now, 他的那个年代没有互联网, 国家主义比我们今天还要盛行,
cuz at least now we have more people who have come out, more of the remnant is visible because of Ron Paul. 因为至少我们现在有更多直言不讳的自由至上论者, 还有剩下的一些人也因为荣.保罗而变得可见了.
Yet this didn't bother him, it didn't occur to him well if I keep writing books, maybe not that many people will read them. 这些从来没有困扰过他. 他从来不会想说会不会我一直写这些书但是没什么人读.
He couldn't have known that it would be a day like today, 他决定想不到会有像现在这么一天,
when a gazillion of people can read his stuff for free all over the world, any time day or night. 成千上万的人可以免费读到他的作品, 遍布全球, 不论昼夜.
They want to becuase they realize that this guy who's been kept from me, no wonder he's been kept from me. 他们希望读他的作品, 因为他们意识到, 难怪一直有人隐瞒他的存在,
There seems to be some rule in the world that that the most awesome things are always smashed and criticized by the bad guys, 这个世界上仿佛有这样一种法则, 最了不起的人总是会被邪恶的人攻击和批评,
this guy is like the awesomest of the awesome. 罗斯巴德这个人不只是一般的了不起.
If there was an attempt to try to remove him, to erase him from history, hoping that young people wouldn't discorver him, 如果真的有人尝试抹杀他在历史中的存在, 希望年轻人永远不会发现他的话,
it has failed abysmally. 这些人可悲地失败了.
Everybody wants to be an Rothbardian. 每个人都想成为罗斯巴德的追随者.
What is the coolest Libertarian shirt there is, the Enemy of the State shirt ! 最帅的自由至上主义T-shirt是什么? 国家之敌(罗斯巴德传记标题)那件!
which by the way the Institute has now made in a different kind of style so that you don't have that kind of white plastic Rothbard head on a black shirt on a summer day, 顺带提一下, 米塞斯研究院最近出了新版本, 你就不用在大夏天穿印有白色塑料罗斯巴德头像的黑色T-shirt了,
so it's a little easier to wear. 所以比原来更舒适了.
So buy a second copy of that shirt, a second one. 你们都去买一件新的吧.
That's one thing, that I liked. 这是我很喜欢的一件事.
He also felt that he could, when I say that he could learn from everyone, 就像我之前说的, 他好像觉得他能向所有人学习,
I don't just mean that he thought everybody had a nugget of knowledge, 我不只是说他觉得每个人都有一小块像金子一样的知识,
cuz probabaly that's not true. 那估计不太可能.
What I also mean is that even if somebody might disagree with him on something important, 即便某人在一件重要的事上和他有分歧,
that doesn't mean this guy disaggre with me on something important so he's probabaly a horrible person who should never be listened to or talked to. 对他来说也不意味着这个人就是一个可恶的人, 永远不应该和这个人交流.
And yet there are people from the Libertarian movement today who would treat you like this. 然而在现在的自由至上圈子里, 有些人就是这样对待异见者的.
They think you are wrong on two or three things, then you are like an unperson. 要是他们觉得你有一两件事错了, 那你就不是人了.
That was not Rothbard's view at all. 罗斯巴德从不这样对待别人.
There's too much for him to learn. 他觉得世界上有太多事值得学习.
He was perfectly willing to learn from people on the left. 他很愿意向左倾的人学习.
So what? (政见不合)那又怎么样?
People have insights, 他承认很多人都有洞见,
and these insights are not evenly distributed. 而且这些洞见不是均匀地分布的.
I've got to find them, and find them he did. 他想要找到这样的洞见, 而且确实做到了.
But I think the thing that you'll learn the most, from the cult of Rothbard, is you will have enemies. 我觉得从反罗斯巴德教你能学到最重要的事情, 是你一定会有敌人.
If you take any position what so ever in public life, it is absolutely unavoid that you'll have enemies. 只要你在公共事务中持任何立场, 不可避免地你一定会有敌人.
I thought that I would be exempt from this. 我曾经以为我可以免于此难,
I know it sounds stupid and naive, but I thought when I wrote the Politically Incorrect Guide to American History, 我知道这听起来傻的天真, 但是在我写政治不正确的美国史指南的时候 (中文版翻作另类美国史),
I honestly took absolute truth, I thought to myself, well, people might not agree with me, 凭良心讲我采用的都是完全的历实, 我觉得, 可能有人不同意我的观点,
but as long as I put forth my views sincerely and as persuasively as I can, 但是只要我尽可能真诚地, 令人信服地呈现我的观点,
then at least they have to respect me. 至少人们应该会尊重我
(Chuckles) This is just nonsense. 这根本不可能.
In case you were thinking that, it's just not gonna happen. 要是你曾经这样想过, 这绝对不可能.
Particularly think of it this way, if Rothbard had enemies among Libertarians, 尤其是你这样想的话, 如果罗斯巴德在自由意志论者当中都有敌人,
what hope is there for the rest of us ? 我们这些人怎么可能逃脱的了?
You just have to accept it. 你只能接受这个事实.
Just live with it, and move on. 容忍下去, 然后继续前进.
Don't dwell on it. Don't spend your life bitter, dwelling on every angry blog comment, or whatever. 不要沉浸在敌意中. 不要把你的人生浪费在别人愤怒的博客评论上.
Just don't do it. Rothbard wouldn't have done that. 不要这样做. 罗斯巴德觉绝对不会这样做.
He spent his life in laughter, keckling laughter. 他在笑声中度过了他的一生, 咯咯的大笑.
That's what you should do. 这也是你应该做的.
I said this to somebody ... Initially when I started getting attack, I have to do, Oh my god, I have all this damage control to do. 我对某个人这样说过, 一开始当我遭到攻击的时候, 我觉得天哪, 我有这么多损害控制要做.
You know what, I sleep so wonderfully and soundly at night, not caring any more ! 你知道吗, 现在我睡的特别想, 就因为不再在意这些东西!
So ultimately then, what I'm recommending you to this first half of my remarks tonight is to resist the cult. 说到底, 在今晚讲座的上半部分, 我希望你们能和反罗斯巴德的狂热抗争,
As I say, you are going to encounter this everywhere. 就像我说的, 你会在各种地方遇到这样的狂热.
Not everywhere, but in big influential places. 或是不是到处都是, 但是在一些很有影响力的重要地方.
No mention of this man. 他们不会提到罗斯巴德.
I don't care that you disagree with him with some strategic decision he made twenty years ago or thirty years ago, 我不在乎你是不是不同意他二三十年前的某一个战略性决策,
I don't care. 我根本不在乎.
How unbelievably, disgustingly petty, would you have to be to say well, I don't know, he shouldn't have lied to that small group of seven leftists, 你要是多么令人厌恶的琐屑, 才能(在评价罗斯巴德的时候)说, 我不知道, 他不应该对那一群左派撒谎的,
cuz he was desperate, there was no Libertarian presence anywhere in the world, 就因为当时他有些绝望, 全世界一个自由自上论者都没有,
so therefore today I should never talk (about him). 所以今天我不应该谈到他.
A guy who writes what, I don't know, twenty million words, 对一个写了大概两千万字的人,
you are gonna put all that aside? I don't believe that's the real reason. 你就因为这样琐碎的原因忽略他所有贡献? 我不相信这是真正的原因.
They'll come with all these phony reasons. 他们总会想出虚假的原因.
I'm convinced the real reason, at least a good 80 percent of it, is just sheer envy. 但我觉得真正的原因, 百分之八十以上都是因为纯粹的嫉妒.
You may be skeptical of this explanation, I would have been ten or fifteen year ago too. 你可能对这个解释感到怀疑, 十年十五年前我也会的.
But as I've grown older, as I've observed people, I see envy plays a much bigger role in the world than I ever dreamt. 但当我年岁渐涨, 遇到了很多人, 我发现嫉妒在这个世界上的重要性, 要远远大于我所能想象.
There are a lot of people, in the Libertarian world, who have not been as successful as Murray Rothbard. 在自由至上主义者的圈子里, 有很多人, 不像罗斯巴德一样成功.
Like EVERYBODY, for example. 举例来说吧, 所有人!
Some of us are at peace with that. 有一些人平静地接受了.
Some of us say, he's a great man; I'm not a great man. 这些人说, 他是一个伟大的人, 而我不是.
But I'm at peace with that. I'm doing what I can with the talent I've been given. 但是我能接受这个事实, 我尽我所能做到最好.
That's all you can ask of yourself. 这是你对自己的最高要求了.
There are some people, who feel like they can build themselves up only by tearing other people down, in this case, erasing them from existence. 但是也有一些人, 他们觉得他们可以通过攻击他人, 否认别人的贡献, 来建立自己的名声.
I would say to you, don't let them get away with this. 我建议你们, 不要让他们侥幸逃脱惩罚.
In fact to the contrary, they are positively compelled to mention him, 事实上与他们的愿望相反, 他们被迫地提到罗斯巴德,
to break through this blackout, and give this man his due. 被迫打破封锁, 给这个人他应得的尊重.
Not because one man deserves it as a matter of justice, 并不只是说因为他的贡献, 罗斯巴德理所应当得到这样的尊重,
but because the cause of freedom, will be all the more readily pursued, 而是因为自由的事业, 会更容易被实现,
if the ideas of Rothbard, are shinning through. 如果罗斯巴德的理念能够更好地传播.
Join me against the cult everybody. 希望大家能和我一起对抗反罗斯巴德的狂热.
Thank you very much. 非常感谢.