Hi, I'm Peter Gould. I'm the co-creator, executive producer
and I directed this episode and I co-wrote it.
Hi, I'm Ariel Levine. I co-wrote the episode with Peter.
I'm Mark Freeborn. I'm the production designer for season 5.
I'm Steve Brown, the construction coordinator for season five and beyond.
I'm Al Goto, the stunt coordinator for season five and for this show.
I'm Valerie Chu. I'm the assistant to Peter Gould.
And now for season six, our writer's assistant.
This shot was... The POV shot was done
by Tom Schnauz in the previous episode.
Thank you, Tom.
I so excited to have Steve Brown on this.
I have to say I'm excited to have all you guys, but...
And I wanna ask Steve. What does a construction coordinator do?
We bring the plans to life
when the production designer like Mark Freeborn comes up with an idea
for a set or location or whatnot.
Which is designed in conjunction with directors and the showrunners
and, you know, a lot of input goes into these ideas.
I thought I was home free.
We bring it to life. We build it. You know, we look off the plans...
and just give them a nice space to act in, basically.
A cartel gang.
Well, there's a lot of construction. There's a lot of stunts in this episode.
And you guys were very kind to me about making this work.
Ariel, I don't wanna talk about it too much,
but we actually had a different teaser for this episode.
There was a very ambitious teaser
that involved Jimmy as a child that I was excited about,
but this episode was just packed.
And something had to go. Something had to go.
Sadly.
It was a very painful...
That what a pretty painful, painful decision for me anyway but...
Maybe for some other project. Maybe it'll get repurposed.
-Keep my fingers cross for the future. -Yeah.
But this... I mean, this works fantastically as the teaser.
I love this opening.
The way it plays off of the, you know, incredible, you know, 509...
Kind of assumed we'd be staying at a Motel 6...
And this is... Where is this, Mark? Did you build this?
No. This the lobby of, oh, my God, I'm blanking on the name. Steve, help.
-Andaluz. -Andaluz.
Downtown. Yeah.
In Albuquerque.
It is one of the first Hilton hotels.
It was... It's been lovingly restored over the past 15 years.
-This is a set. -But this is a set.
Yeah.
I feel like we should play a game.
At least, viewers should play a game.
Is it a set or is it a location? Because you honestly...
I had, like, if I wasn't there I would have trouble telling.
That's good.
We looked at a lot of hotel rooms, as I recall.
We did.
Should I put something on...
-We had a lot of hotel rooms this season. -That's true.
This one had to be...
This one was the pièce de résistance because...
There was so much dialogue in it over the episode.
It was... Yeah. It's tough to shoot in a real hotel room.
I mean, you can do it for a brief scene, but it's...
It really much easier to shoot something like this on stage.
And it give everybody a little bit of elbow room to work.
I remember...
You know, it's interesting.
I have a hard time,
sometimes visualizing the size of these sets.
And of the things that you did for me that was great, Mark, is that you had...
You would tape the floor of the stage off.
To figure out, so I would understand just basically the layout
and how... The size of things.
And that was just so helpful.
But it's... What is the process of actually...
When you read the script, what is the first thing you do, Mark?
How do you figure out what you need to do?
Well, you get to direct for a minute or two.
Come on, make room.
It's important to be able to visualize the space in your own head
and understand in your own head
how you would approach the scene.
And from that just... check the boxes.
Look at the elements that are needed.
For instance, this one needed to have a need to be a non-suite room.
It needed to have exterior windows. It needed to have an approach.
So break it down.
Think about how much action and how it's going to be used.
And that is what drives the basic bones in the set.
And then, in this particular case,
we took off from the original hotel
and just blended the two textures together.
That was... That scene that we just passed...
And, boy, you do... It really makes it so much easier to shoot a scene.
And more fun when you had a set that's so fully thought through.
Well, yeah. It leaves the director of photography
so many more options in terms of the camera angles and lighting.
And in that particular instance, the lighting was very important.
Because he had to transition through evening, daylight...
There's a wrinkle.
...full night.
...Varga with him.
There are way more practicals in that room
than I think any real hotel would have.
And... And they're beautiful. And there's that...
We'll see as the episode goes on, there's that wall with the little pots
that are in niches that are backlit.
And then, there's an arch that gets... That's lit...
It's really... It gives a lot of visual possibilities.
And also, you know, a lot of possibilities for...
On this show, we like wide shots.
And there are a lot of possibilities for backing up a little bit.
Which I love to do.
I always try to parcel out the close-ups.
And only use them when they're really necessary.
The thing in this show, too,
the wide shots are so much a signature of the look of the show.
I mean, look at the one that's on screen now. It's...
Is it necessary?
Maybe not. But it's spectacular. And it tells the story in a single shot.
And that shot is a VFX shot.
The... Yes. The roof is completely a VFX shot.
We supplied the texture on the walls and the dumpster
and the on-the-ground dressing,
but the roof of the place is totally VFX.
Is a man...
It's too bad that we don't have that spectacular explosion that Werner did.
Yeah.
We blew up this place in Melissa's episode
and then we sprang it on you that we were gonna come back.
And of course it was good for everybody except for Sound
because there's a working airport right there.
Now, how did you find this wall, Steve?
Well, we knew that this was a compound. It was fortified.
And once Mark had a good vision
for the kind of tilt-up concrete kind of look,
that really gave us a good path to go down.
We were able to just start making sections of this wall
because each one of those...
You know, you can see where the sections are.
You know, each one is a four by ten section
that eliminated having to do a lot of extra cutting
because that's what the Luan sheets are that we get.
So we just started banging out these four by ten sections.
And then when we had our prep days at the location
we able to just go stack them like Legos and just make it safe.
So we were able to pre-prep.
You don't really get a sense of the scope of the wall.
It was a huge project.
Do you remember how many linear feet?
I think 300, 350 feet or so, wasn't it?
Something. I don't remember exactly. Yeah. And then...
When a wall like that is double-sided, you have to be able to see both sides.
You can't have a bare framing on the other side.
And, you know, it's gotta be built in a way
and stood up in a way that it's not gonna blow down
in a strong wind gust and that sort of thing.
It was interesting to see them because they had feet.
They were not fixed into the ground. They had...
-isn't that right? They had feet. -Yeah. They're on big...
-Big feet. -Steel plates at every post.
And then, that way we could just kind of stand it up.
And then, we could just disassemble it and pack it up to come and go.
This is... By the way, this is a beautiful...
This is a beautiful house in Albuquerque.
I'm in love with this house.
I think, of all the...
This really made me wanna move to Albuquerque, being in this house.
It's a beautiful house in a beautiful location.
And everything about this place just was right up my alley.
It was beautifully, beautifully put together.
We were so... The home owners had some lovely art
which I'm glad to say we packed away safely.
And made it into Lalo's place.
Lalo has really good taste, I think,
is one of the things I'm getting from this.
He's got money.
Yes, he does.
He does. He's not the world's greatest boss.
Now, Ariel, this is I believe your first...
Is this your first produced episode of television?
It is. Yeah.
Very, very exciting. It was so much fun.
Because you were...
How long have you've been working with us?
You were our writer's assistant.
Yeah, for seasons three, four and five.
I started as the post PA season one, writer's PA season two.
And then I jumped in the room.
So I feel incredibly lucky
to get to have a hand in this fantastic show.
I'm a big fan of the show.
...anything with aloe in it?
This was a great, great closing episode too.
Oh, morning.
I'm glad you like it.
It's really fun for me to get to direct
and I think it's something...
It's really good for showrunners to direct,
if nothing else because it gives us humility
when we're working with directors.
And also, because I get to work with the best cast and crew in television.
This particular scene...
I tried something a little bit different, for me anyway.
Which is to... To try to do it...
It was actually, there's a master that was a oner.
And it actually did work as a oner.
But as I watch, we did a few little extra pieces
like that one you just saw where he grabbed the menu book.
And what that... Using those let me kind of use
my favorite parts of each take.
And it was a really fun experiment for me.
I like doing that.
The tricky thing is you really have to be on it
with the cast and with the camera in portion.
We have... You know, we have Marshall Adams and Paul Donachie,
our A camera operator.
Were really invaluable at helping me to make this work.
And of course, Bob and Rhea.
Of course, they're always on it. They're always great.
And so, why not? Why not play it in as few shots as possible.
It was a slightly different approach for me anyway on this show.
I'm just saying, let's take advantage.
You know, let's...
I have to say, I really appreciate Marshall's lighting.
He just... He's...
This room has strong painterly quality to it.
And the scenics did a great job
laying the groundwork for it, but his lighting enhances it.
Just extraordinarily.
I mean, look at that. How beautiful that shot is.
How many people are actually involved in putting a set...
By the way, this set's amazing too. There's all...
Like, the coffee maker,
there's a book that tells you about all the amenities in the hotel.
Everything. Every detail... You could...
If someone hit you on the head and you woke in there,
you would think you were in a real hotel room.
But having said that, how many people are actually involved?
Who are some of the players in taking this from a page of the script
to being an actual place that we could shoot at?
I point and Steve is responsible for all the rest.
So he can answer that one.
Art Department will come up with a design, of course,
you know, based on what the story is,
what the director wants to see, that sort of thing.
When we get plans... basically we will try and work out any...
any bugs, like, you know, making sure we got the right size doors or whatever.
Usually, Art Department designs all that stuff and we just run with it.
We start with carpenters that build the basic walls
and frame work and ceilings.
In this case there's a lot of plaster work.
All those arches around the doors and the bed there.
There's a little bit of card foam to make those.
So all these parts go in together and then, the scenics will come in.
We've got great painters and they really put on the finished touch.
And it's great that it looks real, you know?
Like, all the details that come together. If you can't tell if it's a set or not,
that's because it's a combination of good design,
good construction, good finishing, good set dressing,
it all comes together.
And that's the really important thing. We all aim for...
being able to walk into any location
and have a complete stranger believe it's real.
This episode, there was a lot of sets, new sets, for this.
You know, with some we'll see later in the episode.
So we were scrambling to get them all done, but everybody pulled it off.
How's it going?
Let's see.
I have half an hour to plead out four taggers and a homeless guy
who tried to stuff a dozen hard-boiled...
This is a fun shot. We were actually...
We actually were on a very long arm to make this work
and the dolly was up in the hall in order to do this pull back.
This, of course, is Roy Wood Jr.
Who is one of our favorites.
He's somebody who... My wife, Nora, and I love on The Daily Show.
And it was an interesting thing when Ariel and I were talking about this character...
we kept on trying...
We trying to figure out who this guy was and how he held himself.
And what was his attitude.
And somehow...
Somehow we hit on this thought of Roy Wood Jr.
Just in the writing.
I think it helped Ariel... That's my memory.
And it kind of helped with the writing to understand who he was.
Yeah. Yeah. Because he has to walk kind of a fine line, right?
Because Grant the public defender he has to be overworked, but not jaded.
You know, and it's... He plays it so perfectly.
It was absolutely helpful to, you know, in coming up with a lot of this dialogue,
picturing Roy Wood Jr. because he's so great and he's so... He plays it so well.
Twenty...
There's something very endearing about him.
And he is... He's probably younger than I expected.
When I met him... He comes off...
For some reason, on-screen he seems a little bit older.
He's very light on his feet. He's funny.
He was... He really knew exactly what he was doing here.
He's very... He's a lot of fun.
It was over all too fast, to be honest with you.
And here's another set.
But it's a set in the location. So, what was your...?
What was your approach to this, Mark?
Well, I think that it was important that...
that she'd be frightened by just the sheer volume
of unsolved cases and unresolved issues in the legal system.
And she has made a commitment to herself
to devote her time to...
working on some of these forgotten cases.
And she...
We wanted to make sure that everybody got a sense
of how daunting a task she was approaching.
And due to scheduling,
we ended up building it in the basement of the court house.
So for once, it's actually where it's supposed to be.
Yes. Yes, exactly.
Works out that way from time to time.
And we went with...
We went with...
We wanted it to be an oppressive space. And we went with the leaky ceiling.
We just played with that and enhanced it a little bit.
And the ragged boxes.
It was kind of fun set to do.
It was fun to shoot it.
I didn't think it was going to be, but I would have been happy...
With all of these scenes. I would've been happier to keep shooting.
-Yeah. -I really was enjoying myself.
How could you not? I mean, it's just the ultimate...
Ultimate electric train set.
And of course, Michael and Tony
end up with this great relationship
between these two characters.
Whereas I think this is about as warm as Lalo can get
to one of his subordinates.
And it's... It's none too warm.
Right now, steady...
-Poor Nacho. -Poor Nacho.
He's under so much pressure. So much stress.
He does. He plays it well, though. He's... I mean, you...
-He really does. -You feel for him.
You know his life is not easy.
And yet his acting, you know, like, there's so many layers to Nacho.
Right? He has to act like he's acting like he's acting.
-And it's... -Yeah.
He plays... Michael Mando does such a great job playing it.
Playing both ends against the middle throughout all of that.
And here's another wonderful set.
I'm in love with this bathroom.
-This... -I want this bathroom. Someday.
I will use pictures of this if I ever get to, like, design my own house.
If I'm fortunate enough.
This is our special needs bathroom. You'll see why soon.
It's a... Yeah. This is... This was a...
I would have... Again, I would have loved to have shot more in this set.
Once we figured out that there was gonna be a rising bathtub...
I think the way we originally broke the episode,
we had a different solution to how Nacho is gonna get all this information.
I think there might have been a character who actually snuck up to him.
Told him this and that.
And then, we realized that we're gonna build this bathroom
and Ariel and I moved it to this, which I think is, like, infinitely better
than what his first idea was.
Now, here's a fun thing.
I had this...
It's not that original, but I was a... I had this feeling.
Wouldn't it be fun to do this elevator scene in one?
We had that great elevator sequence in Episode 502, and I want...
I just thought we should do something different.
And I wanted to see if we could do it in one.
But doing it in one meant, you know, you can't shoot in a real elevator in one.
There just isn't room.
So, Mark, this is our set...
-This is our set elevator. -Yes.
And then, what are we looking at when we see outside the elevator?
We're looking at a faux-painted marble wall
to match the location.
And then, it switches.
-It switches. If you watch carefully... -Yes, yes. In the middle of the scene...
In the middle of the scene, we change a wall panel,
so we believe that we're on a different floor.
That's right. And, you know, we had... It was...
It was really fun. The whole crew was rushing around.
Efrain Cortes, the first AD,
was great at making sure all the extras matched
because now, of course, we're on-location, so...
And the funny thing is that
it came off so well, I don't think anyone's ever gonna notice.
It's just that, but there's kind of a magic trick in that last shot.
See, that is the advantage of using ex-theater people
as decorators and scenics because you can pull that off.
I think we shot some behind-the-scenes footage,
and it was just so much fun to see everybody racing around in there.
This is a lovely scene.
This is a...
renovation of an existing courtroom.
We needed additional courtrooms for the script,
and scheduling put us in a position
where we just rehabbed one of the courtrooms that we'd established
in our earlier episodes.
But then the very next night...
And it's a great example of Marshall's inspiration
because it might have even been on the day
he said, "Well, what if we just don't turn on the lights?"
"What if the lights are out in this courtroom?" And he...
We made sure that we shot the wide shots
during the day.
-Yes. -And then...
Then, Steve Litecky and the amazing lighting crew
was able to simulate sunlight after the sun went down.
Yeah, for the... To finish this scene off.
It gives it a really different feeling.
That all the light's coming from those windows,
that those fluorescents above are not on.
Ariel, you wrote the hell out of this scene, I have to say.
Thank you.
This was a really fun one to write.
I remember...
intense timing through with Rhea and Patrick.
They did such a great job with this scene.
I remember on the day, Rhea, with that laugh.
She was wondering whether or not it was too big,
but I think it's just perfect.
And that line, she has...
"I'd make my own choices for my own reasons."
Was something we added after talking with Rhea.
They do so much work getting inside these characters' heads
that it makes the scene so much better.
It's fantastic. I love watching this scene.
Well, Patrick's got such a great
I'll-pick-your-pocket- while-smiling-at-you
-kind of approach to his character. -Yes.
-That's such a great way to describe it. -He's a handsome man.
I love this shot right here too.
Yeah, we're always trying to figure out what the last shot of an act will be.
Yeah.
-It's a good one. -Yeah, it was fun.
That was fun.
I can't say enough about the camera crew. I...
Every opening, every closing, all the coverage is just so tight.
This was a special day for me for a bunch of reasons.
One was, of course, Bob is...
I love the energy Bob's bringing to the scene,
but also, Marshall had to...
He had to go scout that day,
and Paul Donachie, our A-camera operator, was DP for this particular day.
And it, you know, it was just so much fun to work with him that way.
And he, of course, was DP.
He shot Episode Four of this season. He has a fantastic talent.
Yeah, and a wonderful guy. I mean, he is...
We have such... There's such depth to the creativity in this group.
It just makes it fun to see somebody else
take the lead now and then.
And I'm hoping we see a lot more of...
I'm sure we'll see a lot more of Paul's work as a cinematographer in the future.
For sure.
You saved my life.
This is an interesting location. We actually found it on Breaking Bad.
And the house was vacant when we found it.
And the homeowner appreciated our work so much
that he essentially kept the house empty...
for our convenience.
So when we needed to use it, we use it.
It's our standing set away from home.
Probably...
I think the oldest house,
the oldest location that I've shot in in Albuquerque.
I think it goes right back to the early 20th century.
If you look at the front steps, there's actually a carriage step
you used to step down from a horse-drawn carriage in front of the house.
-Yes. -And you can see it in all the wide shots.
And it's really a very nice house.
It's got a lot of texture to it, and it suits Mike to a T.
It does, doesn't it?
Now, you listen, and you shut up.
This man has other things on his mind. He's not thinking about you.
I like the turn Jimmy makes in this scene.
He comes in with so much energy, so much anger.
And then, when he finally gets to the crux of what he's feeling,
he quiets in such a brilliant way.
It's a... Yeah, it's a...
And, you know, he believes Mike.
After everything they've been through, he believes every word that Mike says.
It's so special having a Jimmy and Mike scene.
And, you know, we didn't...
These two didn't really cross paths that much in earlier seasons of this show,
and we've gotten several episodes in a row where they get to interact,
and it's always so special.
That's true. That's true. They have...
There was a lot more to their relationship than we saw in Breaking Bad.
That's for sure.
And Mike, to me, is really
Saul's connection to his dark side. His dark-side conscience, I guess.
Very nice.
And then, here we are, at Don Eladio's pool.
It's... And then... Of course, with that, Steven Bauer and Javier have a break-in.
They're both wonderful actors.
I've never got... I've worked with Javier before.
I've never worked with Steven Bauer.
And he was so joyful and enjoyed himself so much.
It was just infectious. It was all just really so much fun to work with him.
And that one little line.
That one little line that Tony says.
When he calls that guy Charlie Manson, that was an improv.
And it's a great one.
How many drug lords has he played in his career?
That's a great question.
But you buy into it. You buy into it, totally.
Well, these guys...
You know, they seem like they're cut from a little bit of the same cloth.
Lalo and Don Eladio, they're both...
They both enjoy being bad.
They both enjoy being powerful.
...brought me from Fring.
And it's fun to see how Lalo manipulates the boss here.
This... It was just... That was a real pleasure.
I remember this day.
Peter was very active and I remember you getting on your stomach
and finding, you know, awesome angles.
That's right. That's right, Val.
I remember...
Yeah, I remember you guys were having fun over by video village too.
-That was a big day. -Yeah.
That was good.
The Magnum, P.I. car.
This was the first thing we shot, I think, for this episode.
-It was day one. -And it's always...
You know, we never had a really great outside for Don Eladio,
so this yet another location.
And we had to be very careful
to frame out the Sandia Mountains, which are right behind them.
Hopefully, they're not there, but they might be.
On this model the trunk is in the front.
The "frunk."
So, Val, how nervous was I on the first day?
Oh, well, I know you were because you told me,
but you didn't seem nervous at all.
I mean, it was such a treat.
Getting to work for you is always a treat, but seeing you as a director on set
was something I hadn't seen and something I haven't seen on any show.
So just seeing you transform to director, which you're still just as nice,
but it's putting on a different hat while also, you know, still being
as generous with the actors as you always are.
It was really fun to see, you know, that side
and how much care you put into the shots
and having those conversations with the actors,
I haven't quite seen that before, so...
It was a lot of fun, and you were very helpful, Val.
It was great having you there.
It's...
It's always different. It's the...
I spent so much of the year in Burbank,
working on the scripts and working on editing
and it's just such a pleasure to get to come to Albuquerque
and really get to work with everybody more closely
and get to have fun trying to direct a TV show.
So.
How do you think you'll make me money?
And of course, one of the amazing things here is Michael Mando...
I hope he wouldn't mind my saying this. He is not fluent in Spanish.
He has to learn his lines very carefully, phonetically.
And he does a great job.
And this was a tricky scene.
He really nails it. Both these guys do.
Keep the competition out.
New territory?
This is such a big scene for Nacho too. I mean, meeting the boss, it's scary.
-And he plays it so well. -It's true.
Biker gangs.
Biker gangs?
It's interesting to write characters who only appeared on Breaking Bad
when they show up on Better Call Saul.
Don Eladio, you know, I always feel like I'm taking extra care
with the characters who we've inherited from the mother ship.
Mark, were you...?
This is...
You're going back to Albuquerque after you were away for a few years.
Was Albuquerque different when you returned?
From the perspective of the job,
it was like coming home.
There were some...
I feel as comfortable in Albuquerque
as I do in Vancouver.
There have been some minor personnel changes
within the Art Department and Construction, Scenic.
Steve Brown was the foreman during Breaking Bad,
and he stepped into the coordinator position, and it was seamless.
Like, he understood the process,
and it was like I had never been away.
...my own decisions. Go my own way.
And when I arrived, I was just treated royally.
I just felt so good about being there.
Well, we loved having you back for this season.
It was really special.
Steve, you know, Steve has built so many wild things for this show.
He built the giant horse that goes in the lobby of Mesa Verde, of course.
And he built the pump jack that Kim almost ran into
that was, you know, complete fabrication.
There's just so many. It's so much fun to see these crazy ideas come to life.
We've got some really great and talented people on the crew.
It's all, you know, it's all them.
Peter Lane, who built that pump jack.
I mean, fabricated that, and...
Yeah, it's amazing what these guys pull off.
It's also what makes it fun too is we're always doing something different.
Well, we try to give you something different every season.
We do our best.
So far so good.
-Yeah. -This was...
This is... I really like this scene. This one came out. I don't really...
I don't know if I have a lot to say about it, but it just somehow...
This one came together nicely from my point of view.
And we were... I think we were on this set for maybe two days.
And we had a lot of material to shoot, and it was...
But it was so well put together,
and Bob and Rhea were so set, ready to go that it went very quickly.
It was a lot of fun.
And again, totally different lighting mood and color temperature.
Oh, that's great.
This scene really turns the whole show, I think.
-Ariel, I hope you agree because this... -One hundred per cent.
Jimmy's really ready to break out.
-That's... -Yeah.
It's the, you know...
He's seeing himself in the clearest... light.
For lack of a better word, you know, than he has, you know, in a while.
Sort of seeing things clearly, and he's... Bob does such a great job playing it.
I love this little thing he does with his foot here.
He's sort of... The way he's sitting on the bed. He's kind of...
He knows the truth.
You know, and he's so ready to...
It really feels like he's ready to give up.
That he knows that, you know, he's on a bad choice road.
And if he's... Is he gonna drag Kim into hell with him...
It's just... And it's... He...
Nobody says it. Nobody says we're about to break up, but that's...
-No, never. -That's the feeling, and that's...
Yeah. I really like that.
You know, one of the things I always tell directors
is to be sure to do wide shots because our actors act
from the tops of their heads to the soles of their feet.
And that's a great example you just called attention to, Ariel.
He moves his foot that way...
You know, how do you know...? How do we know that that means?
It's hard to say, but it means a lot.
I have to say, this, Kim reading this menu, just describing this burger
just instantly makes me hungry every single time
to the point where I just think I ate, like, everything in Albuquerque
for the next two days.
-I want truffle salt on everything. -Well, you know, you gave us...
You gave me as a gift truffle salt, which I really appreciated.
-I just had it at lunch. -Great.
-So it's... -You're welcome, Peter.
And also the music that Thomas G. Brings to this
just also gives it a tone.
We're always trying to see if we can help the dramatic transitions by using...
Especially source music, it's fun to do,
and it can kind of help us to get from one thing to another.
Really, and again, the set, you can see every time we come back to it.
There's different practicals on,
and it just has a different look each time, which is kind of amazing.
Well, that's the Camera Department
just using every element that's offered.
There are even things that they weren't able to use,
for instance the way you built that set...
those little shelves for the lights.
The back would actually come off,
so Marshall could light through them if he wanted to.
We thought about putting a camera back there.
It's just...
We just didn't have enough material to shoot.
Just do another season, right? In that one set.
So...
There was something funny happened on this because, of course, Bob...
Bob's character is eating a hamburger here.
And Bob said, "I need somebody. I need to talk to somebody."
And I came over, rushing over as I do. He said, "Not you!"
And I was a little offended.
And I forget who he...
-Trina. -I forget who he called... Trina.
Trina Siopy, our producer.
He asked her a question, and she nodded at him.
And I found out,
what he was asking was, "ls my fake eating realistic?"
Because he just couldn't eat any more hamburger.
So he was doing a little bit of fake eating.
I don't know if any of it actually made it on screen.
But that's the attention to detail.
He wanted to make sure,
if he was doing fake eating, it wasn't gonna hurt the scene.
-He's a pro. -He is.
-Hair falls out. Nice. -Yeah.
Or, or, or...
I remember Peter and Ariel were sort of...
coming up with even more ideas in case he needed more ideas
for Kim and Jimmy to prank Hamlin with,
and that was a fun day.
That was. We had a whole...
And we shot some of it.
We had a whole montage that was supposed to go between these two scenes.
And, you know, it was basically Jimmy and Kim coming up with more ideas,
and enjoying each other, and it just...
Once we started cutting it, I realized, boy, we really don't need it.
And so we cut a little bit of material out.
And it helped the running time, but I also think it would've...
The sequence kind of would've overstayed its welcome if we kept it.
I love this crazy idea to shoot under the covers like this,
and Marshall made it looked really easy.
There's something about blocking off parts of the actors' faces,
if it's natural, that feels really good.
I really enjoyed this particular sequence.
I like the intimacy of it.
It is a very intimate scene.
Bribing witnesses, something like that.
You know what that would mean...
And yet they're talking about legal maneuvers?
Isn't that the cornerstone of the show though?
Intimately talking about legal procedures?
That's true. You know, you're right.
These two kind of mix work and play and romance
in the strangest possible way.
And I just... But I just... I really enjoy that.
Yeah. Think about how much they've put into that case.
I think the way we originally wrote it...
Kim actually put her head under the covers at the beginning of the scene,
and then he followed her...
And Rhea said...
I think she read that version and said,
"I don't wanna put my head under the covers,
it seems like I'm ashamed."
And so we just started with them under the covers.
And, boy, am I glad we did.
...this is how you do it.
It's beautiful. I love that scene.
Yeah.
Love the lighting in that scene too. Reminds me a little bit of...
-young Jimmy and Chuck in the tent. -Yeah.
I think in the beginning of Episode 310.
Yeah.
...while they can still use it.
In just a really cool way.
So, Ariel, let me ask you...
I don't know how to ask this quite exactly.
But when you... You know...
When you're in the writers' room, we all break these scenes together,
but when you start writing,
how do you start?
How do you start once you have...
You know what the point of the scene is, you have some ideas about it,
what do you do?
Well, I usually... You know, you start with the fantastic... The cards.
That we all kind of break together in the room.
And from there you expand on that to an outline.
And then I typically...
read through the outline and highlight the sections that I think,
"Yeah, this describes what I want to say in the script."
And I kind of write those in script form and just sort of...
elaborate from there.
This is something I'd learned from Genny Hutchinson...
Just do a vomit pass. Get it on a page first.
And then, go through, and...
make it good.
Essentially.
What's your process?
Oh, it's remarkably similar.
I usually write either the description or the dialogue first.
By the way, that kitchen...
Again, that kitchen...
This is a location, but the kitchen is actually a set.
And, Mark, this was a long discussion during prep.
Because we weren't sure whether to shoot...
Why did you think we needed to build a set for that kitchen?
Because I knew what you were going to do in there.
No, there was just... There was the house...
As you said earlier,
the house, it was absolutely perfect for the episode.
But we knew that there was some mayhem headed our way in the kitchen,
and it just turned out to be,
from a scheduling and from a production point of view,
more practical to build it as a set piece.
We had heavy smoke, we had gunfire, we had flying plaster...
It just made sense to make a built set.
And speaking of building, this deck you put in...
Of course, the wall...
was built.
And, you know, one of the things that...
Mark made a real... A gigantic contribution to this scene,
because it was your idea to put this fire there.
That was... I had actually...
When I first visualized this, I visualized it very differently.
And Mark, you had the idea of having this little fire right here.
And it drives the whole scene.
I can't imagine the scene without it,
but I certainly did until you came up with this idea
of having this fire going.
It's... It really...
It's, you know, I think that's part of the fun
is everybody throwing an idea to making it better.
It is. It is.
And again, it's about giving the camera department
the tools to get that great rim light on Lalo and...
I really loved the writing in this scene
because we see Lalo as this vicious character
but here he's just talking about an everyday struggle that everyone has,
which is he can't sleep.
And it really adds this humanity to him
that we're not really used to seeing.
And I just remember reading it in the script
and how it struck me, you know, that he's a human being.
That's so true, Val, and he...
You know, if I'm not careful, every...
Every episode of everything I do,
somebody's gonna be telling you about having trouble sleeping, so...
-Something he has... -It's relatable.
It's something he has in common with Dean Norris's character on Breaking Bad
in the scene that I also wrote, so there you go.
Now you're talking.
I think that is what really makes this
and Breaking Bad successful is...
the writers' room never loses touch with the humanity of the characters.
And you can identify with each one of them.
I mean, you...
you see the anguish that he's going through...
and the fear he's got, and...
I mean, he wants to live in this scene.
And he just doesn't... He's...
He's panicked. Because he doesn't know to...
He's in a corner.
But they're all human. They're all human beings.
You can easily put yourself into one of these characters
and believe it.
I thought you got lost.
So, we're gonna see a lot of action very soon.
And it's gonna go by very quickly.
So, I have to ask Al,
here you are...
Al Goto, you know you've been...
Boy, I can't imagine doing a sequence like this without you.
You were there on my first episode of Breaking Bad
helping to figure out how the hell to blow up the car
on Breaking Bad.
And, boy, every episode I've done since, you've been there...
So, Al, when you read a script,
when you read one of these things or you see storyboards,
what are your... What's... It's the same question.
What's your approach? How do you make things real?
What are you thinking about?
You know, I just try to...
Sure, I look at what you got on the pages, and then...
If it's... Depending on what they're doing, if it's a fight,
I try to think of how that character fights.
Is he technical? Is he not technical?
If they're skilled or not skilled.
And certain guys are more clever.
Are they gonna use the environment?
If they are not such great fighters, to make it a little more interesting.
In terms of fights.
And then, I just try to think of what we can do to...
To try to make it the most dynamic to...
Whether it's a guy jumping...
Trying to do the roof jump that you guys had in the earlier episodes,
or with this, with Mando...
throwing the oil...
things like that, in the face, things to...
To get the upper hand.
You know...
I've really lucky on your show
and I love it
because you planted all the seeds
and I could see the bad guys are coming out,
and have a lot of fun.
Can't wait to continue.
Yeah, Al, one of the things you did for me here was,
we had storyboards
that I worked on with Ted Stamp yak,
and you did an animatic...
Not even animatic.
You did a little video.
A little previs.
A little previs video, which was very handy.
Based on those storyboards.
You know, you just...
Those things are invaluable to me,
especially because I think I've only...
I directed a little bit,
but I think there's only been only one gunshot that I've ever had.
You know, in a movie or television episode before this.
And so I really wanted to make sure that this was all gonna work properly.
And we... Most of this, we ended up shooting
in one very long day in this kitchen that Mark built.
And this was also the day where we got a third camera.
Which was really handy.
That was a fun, fun day.
And Werner had all the effects going off
and those were all dialed in,
so it's nice when I got a good effects guy.
Good lighting and Mark set up the... Gave us room on the set
so we can do what you had scripted there.
Because that kitchen wasn't as big as that.
Mark gave us extra room.
That's right. That's right.
And of course, Matt Feight, one of our props masters
was in charge of the weapons.
And I'm very wary of weapons.
I wanna know that everything is extremely...
This. Here we go.
-This makes me laugh. -Love that bathroom.
Sorry, I'm...
This was such a fun thing to see.
I laugh every time.
When this bathtub comes up, it just delights me.
That was the best.
He was booking it.
-He's going so fast here. -Mark, what's this? Did you dig a tunnel?
What is this tunnel made out of?
It's a trade secret.
Because on the outside it looked sort of like foam.
Yeah, that was foam that we carved.
We just basically made a foam tunnel.
And then carved it, and plaster-painted it.
Added some dirt.
But that was all on the stage.
Yeah, it was a Styrofoam insulation. To start with.
And this is the only shot with a digital fence extension.
This... We did not have a fence on this side of the house.
A wall.
And so that's... Our good friends at Rodeo did that.
The other that sort of fun and difficult
about that particular shot of Lalo coming out of the tunnel,
is that it turned...
Mark, you...
Both of you guys, Mark and Steve, as I recall,
came to me and said we really can't dig very deep here.
We're very near the Rio Grande.
So the water table is high.
-Yeah. -So, we...
We could only dig...
What was it, like, 2-and-a-half feet down?
-Yeah. -It's about three feet.
We were thinking we would have to...
We thought we'd have to build a set piece
and do a green screen and do all sorts of other things,
And then Tony...
Tony came in
and he just showed us how he could fold himself up
and simulate climbing out of there.
And he saved us all that hassle
through his brilliant acting.
Physical acting.
Was that him?
Also just a shout-out to Dave Porter, this score was unbelievable.
And I loved his touch to this episode. It was...
You really get a sense of the...
you know...
anxiety.
Although Lalo has a little theme.
We hear it in Episode 509, I believe.
And I love the repeat here.
Gives me goosebumps.
Maybe we'll hear more of that theme next season, who knows?
-Yeah, this... -This was so fun here.
This was... This tunnel was so complex.
It's amazing to me...
It's amazing to me how fast it goes by, that whole sequence.
They put a bunch of some hits in the tunnel, as well.
And I don't know if you guys used the hits on that shot or not,
because that gave the dust... A lot more dust effect.
Because quite a bit of dust was gonna fall as it was,
but that just enhanced some.
And then I forgot to say, during the... When Lalo's running away,
you guys added the lightning strikes which that helped quite a bit
to make it look like
there was a lot more gunfire going on in there than there actually was.
The lightning strikes being a device that will create a flash of light,
I believe that was your idea,
and that was, of course,
you know, we have a fantastic electric crew.
Yeah.
What I remember is
a discussion between you, Al, and Werner,
and the rest of the departments,
because you kept on suggesting
that more things could get shattered and busted and blown up in that kitchen,
and there was a long discussion on who is gonna have to clean it up
for the resets.
Yeah, Mark didn't wanna go for all the bath gels getting shot.
Give regular people the representation
usually only millionaires get.
I was gonna say...
Yeah, we worked this hotel room, didn't we?
We did. We did.
And this, of course, the scene that...
The last scene we're gonna see with Jimmy and Kim this season.
And she is taking the bull by the horns.
What do you think is going on with her, Ariel?
I... She is a mystery.
I think she's gone on such a journey,
this season and especially in the last couple of episodes,
you know, kind of figuring out
what exactly she wants, what's important to her,
doubling down on her relationship with Jimmy,
doubling down on her PD work...
You know, I think...
We said earlier, Jimmy's seeing things clearly.
I think Kim's seeing things clearly.
At least, she thinks she is.
Unforgivable.
Yeah, I think, I mean it's... She is such a fascinating mystery.
It's interesting, I...
For a long time...
I felt like we didn't completely understand Jimmy.
And in some ways, now it's Kim who's the bigger mystery.
Yeah.
It's a very... It was very...
It's an interesting scene
just the way it laid out.
And it's super-simple obviously.
But there's a lot going on there.
These two are great.
They're so great.
This is... Yeah, I try to avoid
having every scene be a...
Going back and forth
in singles and over-the-shoulder shots,
but this is one that really warranted it.
And of, course, the make-up on Bob is kind of amazing,
that he's still suffering
from his days in the desert,
back in 508, "Bagman."
Wouldn't I?
I love that line, "Wouldn't I?"
She knows how to drop a bomb.
She's... You know, she's seen the shortest distance between two points.
I'm gonna go take a shower...
I think we did about a hundred takes of this.
It was just, for some reason, was tricky.
These last two set-ups,
they were tricky.
But I'm glad where we landed, that's for sure.
And of course, we were thinking about the end of Season 4.
Between these two, kind of rhyming the two scenes.
I love that we... That callback of the season.
Or the end of last season.
One thing that amazes me
is how long it took to do those set-ups of the dead people.
For some reason, those... Those were very painstaking.
I don't know why.
It's just because, I guess, they're all still lives.
Just so gross.
This is...
-This is Robert Paul Taylor. -Yes.
Robert Paul Taylor who's a fine... He's a fine actor.
Actually all these gentlemen who came in,
and...
came in ready to kill.
It was a very good group of actors.
And they would be off by themselves working on...
working on coordinating their movements
and figuring how they were gonna manipulate their weapons,
and checking in with our armaments experts,
even when they weren't being shot
so there was a lot of passion on the set for all these folks.
And it makes a huge difference.
And they did a good job on their action.
A lot of them did most of the takes themselves.
We just overlapped I think one with the doubles.
Just for safety.
That's true.
There's especially one guy who does a jump into the tunnel
that kind of makes my teeth rattle every time I see it.
And, of course, Tony here is...
Tony's great. Yeah.
He's just so great.
We kept on wondering if we should end the season on Lalo
or Jimmy and Kim, but it just...
Jimmy and Kim did not play right after this.
I think that you leave the season
with a great, big fear about what's gonna happen next
with this ending.
Well, as we speak, we're in the middle of a pandemic.
I hope we get to shoot Season 6 relatively soon.
We're having... And also the end...
That last little sound effect was temped in by Joey Reinisch
who was our assistant editor
for Skip Macdonald,
and he created this really interesting sound
that was a great way to end this.
And that Nick Forshager and our sound team kind of ran with that idea.
Nice season.
Nice season. Really good closer.
Really good closer.
Thank you guys so much.