okay
well welcome everybody to maybe the
first
ever gathering of all the ex and present
uh chair people of the ipp board of
directors it's amazing to see you all
here
this is part of a celebration that we've
organized
for the 20th anniversary of the iapp
which is a really exciting thing that's
happening this year
we have 57 000 members now
all of you on this call will remember
when the organization was much smaller
but 57
000 members now a lot of them hopefully
uh watching this video after we we have
a chat together
about various topics we have more than
25 000 people
certified uh across the credentials that
the organization has built
the numbers are really very impressive
and i think as we all know
it has a big impact not only in the
lives of the people on this call but on
lives and professional experiences of
the people
thank you thank you thank you and as
trevor says
welcome welcome welcome uh
we're excited to have everybody on the
call and we're really
interested and curious to hear your
candid thoughts about uh some of the
topics we're gonna throw out
and uh there's no rules and nothing's
off the table please be candid
and uh we are recording so everybody
should know that
and uh and hopefully we can we can have
some
fun storytelling and maybe even some
advice that could be
uh interesting and useful for uh for the
people that are watching
so um we're not gonna introduce anybody
we'll we'll pop people's names and
titles uh on the video screen so
people that are watching can find out
who you all are there may be a lot of
linkedin invites afterwards so
be duly warm duly warned i'm sure many
people would appreciate the opportunity
to connect with
with some of the people on this call so
be on the lookout
of how we can be helpful to to others as
well um
so let's get started i
because i am this year's chairman i get
to ask some prompt questions
that are going to help us get started
but i'm super excited for the first
question that we want to ask which is
of agnes and agnes for those that don't
know
is the first ever chairperson of
the iapp and agnes i
want to ask you how many books are
behind you but i also
i also want to know um you know 20 years
ago can you just tell us a little bit
about
how it all started and and uh
sure sure so sure so
20 years ago plus it for me it really
began with graham leach bliley um i was
in the financial services area
and a lot of people at that time became
privacy officers
and i heard of an organization called
the privacy
officers association and i thought oh i
should probably join this and get to
meet other people well the privacy
officer
association gathered i remember in a
small
conference room probably in march of
2000
and there were a few other people there
several that were now very much
involved with the iapp and we began
talking about privacy the governance
issues the
situations that were going to be in
requiring
of compliance program which riley in
2001
also around that time there was another
sort of competing
uh privacy organization and i always
have to look that one up because i was
not a member
of the association of corporate privacy
officers
you'll note that both of these
organizations have the title privacy
officers
after a while after meetings after the
meetings went from about
35 to maybe 75 people in total fast
forward till
about 2002 there were a lot of
discussions about bringing the two
organizations together why should they
compete with each other let's have
one and grow it and
create a board create a
organization that could govern it and i
was asked to become
the chair of it and i i love saying that
there have been
so many changes obviously with the now
iapp
the growth you talked about it justin at
the very beginning
but my number one happiness and my
number one
i think success was hiring trevor chris
you'll remember
those interviews those conversations in
the summer of 2002
where we interviewed for someone to lead
the iapp
um we had had a consulting organization
that did a lot of the behind the scenes
that really kind of led
us and we thought we're now this larger
organization we need an executive
director
so for me uh the best hire ever
after all of these years i would have to
say was trevor hughes
who now leads the iapp that's my initial
story
well done well you deserve a lot of
credit i think
and uh we're certainly grateful for that
foresight
i agree with sandy there so chris were
you part of the you were part of the
original posse as well
indeed yeah i remember as agnes does the
early formation meetings
in the march march of whatever it was
2000 long long time ago i remember it
was a cold
rainy kind of winter evening and we all
met in some
conference room sandy i think you were
there as well and harry pearson and a
bunch of others and
you know here we are plus 20 years later
you know going strong and at levels i
would have never imagined
back then and and just to echo agnes
comment
i i do indeed agnes remember you and i
and i think
vince as well interviewing candidates
for the executive director position
and uh we we could not have made a a
better choice than trevor hughes i've
always said that uh
much of uh much of where and what the
iep
is today is is in large part due to
trevor's leadership his foresight his
entrepreneurship is pushing us
uh to be more uh you know more
aggressive and more proactive in
everything that that
uh that we do which kind of leads me to
you know one of my fonder memories is my
time as chair
and that was the introduction of the
cipp
certification program which i think was
really a defining moment
for the profession and for the iep
and those were still fairly early days
for the iep
we were still in many ways getting our
legs under us as an organization
and i remember when trevor brought this
up and i thought oh
geez you know we're just getting a
little bit of financial stability
and sort of figuring things out maybe we
should just go a little slower on this
and uh you know always keeping his eye
on the prize i remember trevor saying if
we don't do it
else is going to do it and i think he
was absolutely right it was the right
move to do so anyways in the fall of
2004
orleans that's the conference that used
to be referred to as the academy
was the launch of the inaugural cipp
uh exam and i remember
uh that distinctly new orleans of course
is a very memorable place to begin with
but
uh anyways proctoring the first exam was
richard purcell
and richard shows up in a full
old-fashioned nuns outfit
head to toe uh costume on with a with a
yardstick in his hand and just added a
bit of levity to
uh to the whole event and you know many
people taking that
certification exam hadn't taken exams in
a whole bunch of years so there was some
anxiety there
for sure but then i recall afterwards
flying back from new orleans and running
into two people
in the bwi airport who had taken the
exam
and thought that it was important that i
understand all the things that were
wrong with that exam
double negative questions uh poorly
written questions
you know everything else that happens
with a brand new certification exam
and then on the way home i i listed
which was about an hour drive for me
from bwi airport to my home
i had numerous uh messages from other
test takers who also felt it was
important to
to share the feedback on that exam so
anyways
it has come a long way baby uh in terms
of uh
certification and it was absolutely the
right move at the time
uh for sure and here we are today as
justin you mentioned 25
000 plus uh cipps or variants of cipps
around the globe so a real
real testament to the profession and
where this has come over the last 20
years
can i just take a quick straw poll from
everybody how many people on the call
have ever been approached
with someone complaining about the
unfairness of an exam
or a question
[Laughter]
anybody who has not all right so on
behalf of the google community
we are grateful you've taken these exams
we are sorry it is torture
and uh over time this exam
has uh strengthened and gotten better
and
um and even you know there's quite a bit
of science that goes into the testing of
the exam now
for those of you who are very early
adopters we're grateful
and uh but we see you and we hear you
and uh and we thank you dustin it's
brianna here i will tell you my own
story about my own exam
so when of course we became board
members we had to take exam because
trevor said
what kind of role model are you if
you're not doing the exam
um so we i had to take it and my first
exam
i was too busy looking for gaps and
saying these are bad
questions these are bad answers this
could be answered both ways
and i was writing email as i was taking
exam to trevor saying
this question is not right by the way
it's multiple choice but it should be
you know another
answer so you know i remember i almost
flopped my exam
because i was too busy looking at the
questions and thinking why are they
asking this they shouldn't be doing this
so anyway
but i did pass i know i never know how
good or bad but i did just pass
i think we all passed that first exam in
2004. we all took
it at the same time i think we all
passed didn't it
i don't want to know anymore about it
damn agnes that's right and we all start
we all came
out and we all started jibber jabbering
saying we have to fix
these questions
so sandy you were you were part of that
posse as well
that sort of initial uh thought leaders
crew
and uh i i um
i i wanted to turn to you because sort
of shifting topics slightly but it but
it is related
you know for those uh i don't i i don't
want to reference
uh age but i want to reference
experience so many people
have seen well you called yourself a
grandma that you love
you love being a grandma and and i know
i know that a lot of people uh
particularly
um newer people in the profession are
really drawn
to you for a lot of uh really great
reasons
i mean i think many uh rightly
describe you as a pioneer in the
profession
and and particularly in terms of women's
roles
in in executive functions and
organizations and i was
i was hoping you would share with us
some of your experience
both while you were you know in in the
house but but
also subsequently in terms of mentorship
because so many people that uh
get involved in the iapp i think are
very hungry
for those opportunities to seek out
people who have been successful
and want to hear people's stories and
and i'm i'm wondering if
that indeed is your experience it's what
i perceive but i'd love to hear from you
well yeah and i thank you so much justin
um and it's a role i love and even
though i've been
rewired from procter and gamble for
eight years now believe it or
not i'm still involved in privacy of
being on some boards but also for um
as an executive coach uh with some in
the profession because
it's true to my heart it's the it's the
right thing to do
we we face it and everything that we
especially now
are going through and during that time
um okay don't come to me for questions
about that certification because we are
so i won't i can't do that but
you were grandmothered into the
certification i was grandmothered i was
grandmothered into that
and still keep that but i haven't gone
for anymore because
a terrible test taker but anyway it was
because it was the right thing to do and
it was the common bar
we would help each other at different
companies with their programs and just
getting started
in the privacy profession and so i
you know even though i was at png i was
helping some of the people at kimberly
clark and others because
that common thread of doing the right
thing for personal information we wanted
to get it right
across the whole uh spectrum of
companies
um i remember burger king came up and
and i was helping their
fledgling privacy program and uh of
course you know it was all free because
i'm working for p g right but they gave
me some whopper coupons
which i like passed around to some of
the staff that were working in privacy
and then um so that kind of you know
still
trying to to help where i can and
um from a gender point of view
um there were some of us who were early
in the profession
we kind of banded together as the
executive women in privacy
it kind of uh renamed meers used to have
these great
dinners you know before that everybody
male and female you know would just
clamor to do because they were always
such
top-notch things and uh she was with a
consulting firm
one of her consulting firms at the time
and when she
um retired or left that first firm and
was on her
own we kind of banded together and said
you know let's have a women's group
that kind of grew and then we worked
with the iapp
and and then they started the women in
privacy and so we kind of handed that
back off but there was a lot of
mentoring going on in that
uh especially for women to bring them in
and and grow the profession and i can
remember one of the
the crowning achievements after i had
rewired from png
came back for the celebration of uh
the survey that ipp does every year
showed that uh
there were 50 percent women so the fact
that we had hit that bar
of 50 50 and you know the salaries were
pretty much
like in line it's like wow what
profession can really
claim this you know where women have
an equal set you know seat at the table
there so
i was really proud of that moment
justin if i can jump in on the point
that sandy just made regarding the 50 50
i was
on the board at the time that that
particular survey results came out and i
remember
how excited trevor and everyone was
about this actually could be
a indicator if you will for how
the broader tech community could think
about what it takes
for um there to be a better male female
balance or gender balance within
the tech community at large and we had
done a number of discussions
out with the media that actually has led
even to now i still have people come
back
and ask questions about what is it about
privacy
what is it about the the profession that
actually
has enabled that gender parity to be
struck
and what can other look and other
professions
as well as the industries at large
learned from that so i just think that
was a really
milestone moment for the iapp and for
the community at large
and justin i wanted to add going back to
the mentorship
i am a product of being mentored by
sandy hughes
and it was more important to me in my
career
than just about anything that i can
think of
and even today as i think about the
pillars of my program
they root back when i
i came into iep where we're at five year
15 years and the first week that i took
over at that time at hp we had a major
privacy against
a very visible one it was around pretext
and that week i got two phone calls
and they were both from mentors that
proved to be invaluable to me in my
career
one was sandy and just offering to help
me through that process the other was
trevor hughes
really helping to give me a bit of cover
as we worked through the incident so
i'll tell you sandy has probably been
more influential to me in my career than
any other person
i love her dearly and still today the
concept she came up with that she put in
place
at png in the early years um still
proved to be correct
i think that so much of what she did
really created the foundation that
many of us have benefited from so sandy
thank you for that
thank you scott and justin don't shine i
have this
red face right now so i feel really
embarrassed congratulations sandy that's
amazing it's awesome
you should feel great about it um
you know another really influential
person and someone who's been a mentor
to me
is joanne stoner who is on the call i
don't want to make you blush or anything
like that
but you i was very lucky
uh because my uh first uh couple of
years on the board overlapped with yours
and we
we got to uh i got to to observe
uh a lot of the sort of the leadership
style that you brought
but also really learned a lot about
networking and that's something that is
so
important for all of the members of the
organization
and uh i think a lot of networking
in the iep does happen around physical
conferences
certainly in the past but also in other
venues and
regulatory environments and i i would
just love to hear from you
given the experience you've had and the
successes you've had
um you know what kind of advice do you
have for
for the members that want to follow in
your footsteps
first of all my mentors are i'm looking
at them as well so i'm looking at sandy
and i'm looking at scott and i'm looking
at brendan and i'm looking at hillary
and i'm looking at guayana
um and all of those folks predated me on
the board
and all of them were mentors to me so
i learned from i don't know giants in my
opinion as well
so and trevor of course um when i was
approached to be on the board
i already knew knew so many of these
amazing people because of the networking
of the iapp
so i met sandy through the executive
women's group
um boyana and i had the good fortune of
meeting through the center
for information policy leadership which
she leads now but we were both
members back then and so the iep has
always been
a real cornerstone of networking right i
mean one of the benefits of going to
summit and it's
unfortunate this year we couldn't have
it summit has been a gathering spot
but so has been the congress right um
different events that we've had all
around the globe
have really enabled a privacy community
to emerge right so that's the first
thing that
um i want to say and then even when i
was on the board justin you know this
and peter you know this and
hillary i think you were part of this as
post chair we started these crazy pub
crawls to try to get to all the affinity
groups right
i hate to admit it was a lot of fun it
was a lot of drinking too but
in order to really get out and meet the
membership because the membership
started growing i mean agnes i love the
early day stories because there was only
about 500 of us at summit or
less right so we could see each other
when we were in breakout rooms there was
you know
30 people not you know these huge
breakout rooms that we have now
but you know i've had the good fortune
of also having mentors
that have dragged me along with them
into really interesting conversations
and boyani you're one of them
um jennifer glasgow is another one
who would drag me across the globe to
different meetings where they thought my
voice could be helpful
and so what i would say to our members
is make friends but make friends
professional friends
and have conversations not just about
what you are personally experiencing but
what you're professionally experiencing
i mean along with peter and hillary
we had the experience of the gdpr
right so hillary was the chair in 2016
2017 2018 and we had to help the
membership really figure out how do you
implement this darn thing right when we
finally got the final
wording of the regulation how do you do
it how do you then
really be up on its feet there's so many
ways that as a
we are subject matter experts and i
think that's one of the reason
that women and men do really well in
this profession
is that it requires translating
law to technology to business
and so we want we wind up needing to be
great translators
and what has happened for me i've just
had the good fortune that
organizations like the world economic
forum and the united nations and the
oecd has needed translators at this time
to translate what does all of this mean
for the globe
and so you know but it means that you
have to be willing to listen
as well and that is also what the iapp
has taught me right we have
watched from the earliest days agnes
right
of the profession and when i think of
glibba
right and what we were struggling with
back then and trying to undo that you
know understand that language to the
language all the way today
of ccpa and the brazil law right
um we still are using some of the same
skills
but how we apply them is different and
the world has gotten extraordinarily
complex
and then you throw in things like covid
right um
and the balancing act that all of us are
asked to do and i just think that
networking is the only way
that we can continue to evolve into the
new world of data use
right and privacy and security and all
the things that all of us have balanced
throughout our careers so i've just been
fortunate to have known all of you
because all of you have made me
just incredibly smart so my advice is
get to know your peers
get to know them personally and
professionally and
it just all happens
great thank you for that um so you said
a lot of really interesting things they
were like bon bons on a table
but i'll choose one of them um which
which was your emphasis on the idea of
who we are that we are
subject matter experts and it seems to
me that at the iep and this is true
across the world
that there's always been this question
or this tension about
is this an organization of lawyers
is it about being a lawyer versus a
non-lawyer
and i wanted maybe to ask john
jonathan um what your perspective is on
that i mean you're you're
a very educated prestigious lawyer who's
definitely embodies in my mind
that that sort of cadre that was at the
heart and core
of an important uh
timeline in the iapp's development and i
and i just love to hear your thoughts
whether this is still a lawyer's
profession
is it something more than that what do
you think and has it changed over time
well i think you're absolutely right
justin that has been a perennial
question
for the organization and also within the
departments that we've all been in
what role do lawyers have and what role
do
non-lawyers have i think one of the
things that's challenging as a lawyer
entering the profession
is that his lawyers were accustomed to
giving advice but not implementing it
so we deliver advice to people and they
implement it
but being in the privacy profession
being a chief privacy officer
that requires a different set of skills
a new set of skills
in addition to having to understand the
law and
at times interpret the law it also
requires building the processes and
procedures and structures
that enable implementation of the law
and i think that
that can be a stretch it was a stretch
for me i i've been in both the position
of being a lawyer within a corporate
legal department
and being chief privacy officer and also
being
a a lawyer but not functioning as a
lawyer within
an ethics and compliance department for
two very large
companies in both cases and i think the
profession has matured
about being more deliberate about the
processes
and the procedures and not just
the legal advice and i think the iep has
done a very good job in its programming
also of addressing both of those things
of making sure that our programming
covers
what is the law what does it say what do
you have to do
but then also how do you implement it so
conference
sessions and the publications and
various other things i think have
have served that need well um
both for the lawyers and for the
non-lawyers
jonathan you're really right about the
evolution of that i remember
people were perhaps an attorney but also
a chief privacy officer
now you're finding that also but you're
also finding a lot of people in the
legal department
with privacy responsibilities i think
there's been a real
growth and an expansion of
the different roles people play that
manage privacy
and i think also it takes those
different roles to manage it
well i've had people on my team who are
formerly bank auditors
i.t auditors at banks and that is a
great addition
to any privacy department because they
have a set of skills
that lawyers just don't have unless they
did that in a prior life
um so it it takes a village to operate a
privacy department
and uh and it can't be comprised just of
lawyers
i don't know if you all remember i don't
know if you all remember
trevor used to have that slide where he
would show the brain of a data chief
privacy officer of dpo
which was um you know the brain which
consisted of many different
aspects and and skills and of course
there were legal skills there were
leadership skills there were
marketing skills there was um you know
can follow me skill
jump off the cliff but also technology
skills auditing skills
joanna i will never forget when you when
we were in hong kong we were talking to
that
audience of hong kong privacy officers
and they said to you
the chief privacy officer need to be and
you said they need to be a storyteller
they need to tell a story to get people
behind them right
and i think it is totally true we need
to resurrect that
slide with that multi-functional brain
and then when i was presenting i used to
say
no wonder there's so many women like
that cheap privacy officer because only
women's brain can have so many different
aspects
but i'm not going to say that now okay
so everybody can be a tree privacy
officer
oh well on that on that note not a lot
of people realize
that the brain example that trevor took
was actually
brendan lynch so that that was his brain
and brendan sort of emerged as
the poster child for this more mature
privacy governance program manager
village leader chief and brendan you
i mean you've had uh and continue to
have a really
important career as a leader of many
many many people and many processes
in rather mature privacy organizations
even for technology companies that have
a reputation of being less mature than
other sectors
what's your take on this whole lawyer
non-lawyer
uh trajectory for the for the iapp and
and how it's matured over time
yeah it's it's great it's certainly um
when i think about my career i got into
the profession
over 20 years ago now through business
consulting
um then went into a tech
various tech companies um
and i've i've benefited from from many
of the folks
on this call from a mentoring
perspective
as a non-lawyer you know i've i've
received a lot of mentoring from lawyers
and that's been really helpful to
to balance that out but i do think
that's
one of the amazing things of this
privacy community
and the iapp as the organization that
supports it
yes legislation regulation plays a big
role
in what we all do but
we're seeing many enlightened
organizations now also they're going
after
bigger goals than that right people are
going after
goals of building trust um they're going
after build
goals of enabling responsible data use
but but in a more robust way and privacy
playing a much more supporting role
for that and managing risk and managing
risk
to people yeah you know managing risk to
to
individuals as well as managing risk to
companies and
if you do a good job against all those
objectives
arguably the regulatory compliance
almost comes along for free
because you've you've put in place a
comprehensive program
but the other aspect of it that i find
you know fascinating today
is the number of types of uh professions
coming in to the privacy world the
amount of privacy engineers
you know there's there's oper privacy
operations is a
is much grown you know growing field
particularly in the larger organizations
um and so that's something that i think
it's been impressive to see the iep
catered to that
right from the beginning you know i was
involved in that first certification
committee i was when people were raising
their hands about you know
exam questions i was thinking gosh i
remember in the first cip
there was actually a web privacy section
um and i had the pleasure of writing
some of those questions
and i even had there were case studies
there where i'd
you know you had had these various roles
of somebody did this and somebody did
that and what do you think and
i used my parents names and that i that
lasted a few years before
the more professional testing people
came along and
for some reason removed my parents names
from from the text
sure but generally speaking yeah i think
there's a there's a wide range of
opportunity
uh for for many people of many
backgrounds to
to really have an important role in
privacy going forward
i think you make an important point
brendan that is that i think the
profession over those 20
years has really moved from focusing on
the can we
to the should we uh right we've moved
from is it legal to is it consistent
with the values
of the organization the of which we're
apart
and we've been required to be in uh
observers of the broader sort of privacy
environment and bring it back to our
organization
to interpret and apply it uh and it
definitely transcends merely the law
it does yeah and i think what we're
seeing is an outgrowth of
of data ethics essentially as a an
outgrowth of privacy in in many ways
many companies as well my my
undergraduate degree was in philosophy
so what i aspire to be
is a privacy philosopher and i don't
think that job title been defined yet
but
as soon as it is i'm there
well it's a nice jump to hillary because
hillary you and i were talking about
your experience and your focus on
not just ethics and and policy in
technology but the role that technology
has played
and continues to play for our members
and helping them
execute against some of the expectations
of a more mature
modern privacy program can you talk
about some of your thinking in your
journey from
the roles that you've had into something
that's very technology tools
and also the importance of vendors you
know in the iep
community there's been a proliferation
of tools
and solutions that are becoming
indispensable
for privacy practitioners to um
to rely upon to achieve expectations of
gdpr
and other more mature programs i'd love
to hear your thoughts on that
oh thank you justin well it's been so
fascinating to listen to everyone talk
about
the history and evolution of our
profession
and iapp being at the center of enabling
us to all grow
as leaders within the organizations that
we have been part of
and transitioning if you will from in
some cases serving in a legal role to
one that's
more operational and i'll just go back a
bit to my own journey
i started out doing privacy actually as
a marketer
and then as i was in law school at the
time and then as a
non-lawyer still studying to get her law
degree
at night and then ultimately then as a
lawyer for
i think about six years or so and then
transitioned
over to the compliance part of the
organization that i was part of
where we our goal was to move beyond
as john was saying earlier uh the giving
of legal advice
and hoping people followed it and
throwing some auditors
um out to check whether they did to
looking much more operationally as to
how do we get these things done how do
you really mobilize the organization to
have
accountability and responsibility for
embedding privacy into what they do
every day and what's been so interesting
to me in working with all of you over
the years and with those at the iep over
the years just
how much this continues to evolve and
how much gdpr
has really forced a lot of organizations
who hadn't yet gotten there
maybe we're really only looking at
privacy at a cursory level
to look at how do we make this part of
the fabric of what we do
because in many respects that
accountability principle they added in
there
you now have to uh at least for those
organizations who are moving past
their surface level of compliance so
it's been interesting
as most of you know in 2016 uh scott and
i have been talking a lot about
technology i think scott the first time
i heard you present
about the technology approach to privacy
was
correct i think 2009 2010 time frame you
were
back like the early innovator thinking
about the fact that
you can't do this stuff well across your
whole organization if you're trying to
rely on
email and email it just doesn't get you
there and
i still remember the tool that you had
built in house at hp
demonstrating that i was talking to
folks at the time about how to use
an em basically a document documentum
type uh repository to manage a lot of
what we were trying to do with respect
to annual safe harbor compliance
verification and
it just didn't quite cut it so fast
forward to 2016 i remember we were
talking about um
technology in the profession and what
could be and
we had tried a bunch of different ways
uh many of us to
implement technology within our own
organizations and i had
been talking to trevor uh about that
year's
board retreat and we were approaching a
lot of different topics and one of the
topics
that we had agreed upon was how do you
get privacy to scale and this was an
anticipation of gdpr
and all the obligations organizations
had around
not just the compliance as a general
matter in terms of the principles
really getting in and like how do you
show you're an accountable organization
whether you're a controller or a
processor
how do you implement all these things
especially in life
that people were concerned about and
that's when in my view we
really needed to have a conversation as
an iep
community starting with the board of the
staff about technology and
i still remember that day and we went
around the room there are a lot of
different ideas
we had a fire started conversation and i
walked out of there and i'm like
you know what i need to be part of this
and make it happen so it's been really
an interesting journey for me
over the last four years um trying to
design
technology solutions among many many
others at the time there were probably
like 10
vendors privacy tech vendors in the
space and now
i think of last count that trevor shared
with me were over 300 and it's growing
day in and day out because there's a
huge
need for those of us who manage privacy
within our organizations
to actually be able to discover what
data we have
how it's being used where it's moving
and then how to embed
it into what everybody's doing every day
and if we know the rest of our
businesses are becoming digitized
data-driven and without technology to
actually support that
it becomes really really challenging so
i think it's been interesting
four years later um to reflect back on
how much has happened but really
i think in the absence of a law like
gdpr it probably wouldn't have happened
quite at the pace that it has i think
pdp was a huge driver
ccpa is becoming a bigger driver for
those organizations who weren't
subject to gdpr and i think where it
goes
you know you can only guess but it's an
exciting ride is
the entire time being a privacy
professional has been for so many of us
thanks for that hillary um peter so gdpr
hit just like covet hit while i am
chairman
gdpr hit while you were chairman
if i'm not mistaken so
do you think it had any impact on the
organization at all
size you know you know i i think about
it a little bit differently
um go back gosh
15 years ago and we had an iapp
congress in toronto and they got david
lucadelis and jennifer stoddart and
trevor
and some folding chairs up onto a small
stage and we all got hockey jerseys
and that was our big international
presence that was our
huge international moment we all had to
take our passports to go to toronto
and if you recall at the time the
european community
was coming to iap conferences and to
commissioners conferences
and it was a us versus europe you know
americans don't understand privacy
europeans don't understand americans and
trevor
had this view at the time that he was
pushing
very hard with all of us i think
that there was no reason that the iapp
had to be viewed as an american
organization
and there was no way that we had to be
viewed as
the glba organization or the
federal privacy act organization and
you fast forward the time we've all been
involved with now with gdpr and the iep
i went to munich gosh the thought of
traveling is wonderful but i went to
munich
for the conference there sold out
pre-event
huge event running in two languages even
paris now running as a major conference
and really considered to be a standard
bearer
as many of you said you know the world
of accountability is not just the world
of gdpr
it set the framework for what a lot of
us do
um frankly it goes back to a lot of what
um scott sandy and brendan and others
have been doing
for many years and teaching all of us
for many years
but but this is now the international
standard and and and for
trevor to have thought ten years in
advance
that this was where the profession was
going and that this was where the iapp
was going um it's so forward-looking and
i think it's
played a really big part in getting us
where we are
so to answer your question dustin it's a
very long way of answering the question
but
i don't think gdpr did this to the iep i
think trevor saw it coming
and i think he got out ahead of it um so
but before i pass
i i i want to go back to a discussion
that
joanne was having about about um
networking and i'll tell a very brief
story
i i remember back when the conference
was at woodley park
and uh you know the big events there
were the the networking
particularly the microsoft party and the
in the the
suite off to the side and the old tower
um and one year
my beloved joe aladef and i went up to
the conference
and we didn't buy passes and we sat
at the the table in the coffee shop that
was closest to the entrance of the
conference
and we were meeting with people and we
were getting tremendous mad out of it
trevor came up to us and said okay you
knuckleheads
i've gotten new passes go in and learn
something
but it was a statement it was a
statement that
ours is a profession of learning from
each other
of being around each other of seeing
what's happening
and like great athletes advancing on it
you know trying to do the mile a little
bit faster
and to the extent that i've um
played any role in that it's on the
backs of all of you so thank you
oh it's very that's very very kind words
oh and i'm i'm actually super happy that
you mentioned canada unfortunately
one of our former chair people who was
able to join us briefly and then had to
leave
jeff came up through the ranks of the
the canada chapter but
it's a good segue to another big
area um that i think characterizes
the experience of an increasing number
of our members which is this issue
of the ipp being headquartered in the
united states
there's a lot of american figures
including on this call
that have been leaders of the
organization and
there's been a significant amount of
growth
um outside the united states and lyanna
i would love to open the door
to hearing you know your reflections on
that
change as well because certainly
something i've been personally very
focused on
as somebody who's based in hong kong um
but i'd love to hear i'd love to hear
your your thoughts about this whole
international
flavor of the iep over time thank you
justin and um
you all know i do i used to joke a lot
about
um the fact that i was the i
in the iapp because it's true when i
came on board
um uh to the board it was 2008 i think
um
2009 um you know it was
the organization was perceived very much
as u.s focused
but but trevor had bigger ambition and i
think he was totally right
um and you know yes i was maybe a token
first
european uh on the board um and first
international non-new
non-us person but look where we've come
now so i can't think of another
profession
or area of law which is as global
in its nature uh as privacy
and there is something special about the
international aspect of people who we
meet as well
they're all drawn to this privacy for
the same reasons it's a little bit like
doing postgraduate or being in in a in
essentially like-minded people
uh you know at some kind of meeting or
conference
there is really a special camaraderie
about this international group of people
who all
feel the same yet they all come from
very different backgrounds
and very culturally view privacy very
differently as well so
in today's world although globalization
is not very fashionable
and in this post-corbid world in fact we
will have deglobalization i think
we are just going to see more of
globalization of our privacy profession
data is flowing and will be flowing
uh solutions to privacy
will be flowing technology best
practices as well
uh there the laws are converging as well
and to
peter's point it was the us who invented
chief privacy officer not the gdpr
right but hey now we all have data
privacy officers and chief privacy
officers so
i kind of think that with technology
being global in digitalization still
coming on accelerating after covid we
are going to see even bigger exposure of
international in the ipp
and in those days of course it was
europe but today it's latin america
i mean that's where things are moving
everybody is now interested in brazilian
data protection law
in the changes in argentina there is
this new army of privacy enthusiasts and
privacy officers coming from there but
the same with india
and asia as well i i just i know you're
in asia and it is exciting to be
there because some of the best solutions
potentially for the
accountable ai or machine learning maybe
coming from
some research and development labs in
the in
china um or asia as well as perhaps
us and europe so we really need to keep
focusing
on growing this profession and really
learning from each other as much as
possible
um i wanted to kind of remind um
you asked us to think about interesting
point um
that the world really is very flat when
it comes to privacy
so when um i was hoping in my job
at that time i was heading private
accenture i was hoping
to
to look for pay rise right and i knew
that in fact
there was some amazing leaders out there
like harriet pierce and nola connor
and i knew that there was never any more
than i did so i reached out to them
right
out across the atlantic because of
course salaries were bigger in the u.s
we knew that but there was no survey
data but we knew that was the case
and i said to them look i need to do
something about my own salary my own
position the company what can i do
what kind of benchmark can you provide
me and you know they provided that
and isn't that amazing you know that
sort of camaraderie that
sharing of information very personal as
well to help me
actually get ahead in my own role and i
think that's
and this was done across the atlantic
across the borders
and i really hope today's privacy
offices that are merging
in asia latin america in africa i hope
they reach out to all of us
and i hope we also reach out to them
because they're going to be finding new
ways
in which they're going to be delivering
this accountability
this new compliance much more much
different than perhaps
ours were so i kind of love that
cultural diversity about
ipps and i really do hope that grows as
well
um and one last point um of a kind of
leadership
lesson that i have learned through ipp
when i
was approached to put for the board
position it was a really busy time in my
life
personally at home i had three children
i was just promoted in
a senior role at accenture and i had a
lot on
and nola and trevor came and said you
know we'd love to have you on the board
and you know next year you're going to
be could you be the vice chair because
next year you could
become the chair and i sort of said no
way i cannot possibly take this
on on top of everything else that i have
got
but hey how wrong i was and i said no
and they said no no but you ma
i took that leap of faith saying yep you
know i'm somehow going to manage
another role on top of 15 others that
i've had
and it was the most amazing time and and
i'm telling you this story because i
want to make sure that everybody who is
listening to us
realizes the potential that this
international
community of privacy people has got you
know so much to give you
so much to um uh help you with so please
never be
shy to kind of take away um
the helping hand and the reaching hand
and if you look at some of the leaders
that we have amongst us you know joanne
you are one of the leader who has
pot transcended privacy is now chief
data officer
uh we have got keith sandrite who is
sitting on a board as a privacy expert
on the board of another company
so i think this is hugely exciting and i
really felt i needed to say a plug
for our profession because i think the
skills that we have got
and that cultural diversity and the
ability to see beyond just our law
beyond just our country beyond just our
company it is something special about
the people who do privacy
and no matter whether they're in the
globe as well
so long may it continue well said
boyana well said um that
brings us actually very nicely to the
present
and kalinda i'm turning to you because
you and i happen to be
right next to each other in terms of the
sequence we're lucky we still have you
on the board
you are the outgoing former chairperson
and you uh lead our nominating committee
for the coming year for the board of
directors and you've been a really
important leader in the in the past
several years cycle
on this point of diversity i feel like
that is a
very important um it's not
exclusively important now it's always
been important
but now it is something that is getting
radically more attention
than i think it did even uh in the past
few years
and i and i wanted to hear your thoughts
about that you know we're talking about
it now
as a board and as an organization and
the importance of diversity from
lots of different perspectives boyana
touched on
diversity from an international and
cultural perspective
earlier sandy was talking about gender
what are your thoughts on the kinds of
diversity topics we need to be tackling
as a profession now
well thanks so much for that justin and
i think uh one key part of diversity
as many of you who have watched this
would have seen is is that of the
mothers that i see
in iapp and my daughter who has
continuously
run back and forth throughout the call
one of the things that really
drew me to to this community in the
early days was the fact that it was
so diverse in reality i think one of the
things we often forget is that
um 20 years ago uh outside of
um you know maybe the healthcare and
financial industries there wasn't a lot
of space for privacy and there was a
a view of the fact that like we'll pass
it off to whoever's willing to take it
on
um i i was one of those rare birds who
got interested in it in college
and so when the iapp when i learned
about the iapp
it was like uh boyana said like coming
home it was like graduate school there's
all these people who are actually
talking about the same issues and i
think
um that that sort of beginning for our
community
of a lot of people who were on the the
outskirts of things were just trying to
find
um this unique kind of carve out within
the law
where it balanced fairness and ethical
issues
and uh things that we all thought would
would eventually uh as technology has
developed to where we see it today
give people um the ability to control
their data and their lives i think
it brought about a very diverse group of
people
and i think that is one of the benefits
of our community
is uh many of us are tied by this
desire to do good by this desire to see
technology have a a
version of itself that allows for
people to have freedom and protection
for it not to be used in a bad way
and that brings together just a
wonderful group of people from
um globally internationally i think i
i feel very special being the first east
indian to be on the board
um i think the fact that we have so many
women
as well in this profession is something
that made me
feel quite honestly 20 years ago like i
could
be somebody in this profession and rise
up in it so
i i look to all the faces on this call
and just think
i can't believe i'm even amongst all of
you because i remember
my first iep conference in 2006
going and seeing many of you and
thinking that oh if i could get them to
talk to me how exciting so
i i feel uh very special
to be on this call and to be able to say
what a a wonderful profession we have
that allows you to focus on
values and ethics um and still
still be a um a woman
who can succeed and not feel there's any
limits on it as well
as a mom quite honestly um
i sit here in my kids playroom and i
think similar to boyana when i was first
approached
about the board by hillary one of my
concerns was i had a newborn
uh daughter and how would i manage it
and now she's
five and running through my calls and it
and i'm so glad i took it on and that
i've had the opportunity
to do this
thanks for that kalinda and it it it's
it's also a reminder i think you know as
we close out the hour that we had
together which is really unique
and i'm excited that the iapp was able
to make it happen even if we have to do
this in a virtual environment
um it's the 20th anniversary of an
organization and i think as we've seen
even in talking to one another it's a
mature enough profession that we
actually have generations now
where you can you can see new people
entering that you know maybe never
worked with or met
some of the the really really senior
leaders that came before them i remember
job applications you know or even
posting
uh jobs that people could apply for and
you would ask for somebody that had 10
years of privacy experience and that was
a silly thing to ask for
because there were so few you could
count them on one hand back in the day
and now
that kind of maturity is actually
becoming possible
in the recruitment cycle and so i think
this idea of generations
after 20 years of experience and many
more years ahead of us is an exciting
one and it's one
that's inclusive where instead of being
an
exclusive club of insiders who talk
to themselves the iapp and one of the
things that i love about it is that it's
expanding
in its inclusiveness of technologists of
lawyers of auditors of accountants
of new workforce members
of uh job transitioners it's just
it's it's a it's a path that so many
people can follow and for the people
that took the time to watch this video
and listen to in particular some of the
village elders that are here to help
um professional village elders
um i think it's an exciting time for a
lot of people and i hope
uh everyone enjoyed uh hearing people's
stories and anecdotes and i want to
thank you again on behalf of trevor
and the iep and all of the membership
for the time that you took to join us
today
yes quickly before we end can we just
have a toast
to the iapp as well as trevor
i think we've heard so many times from
each of us talking about
trevor's leadership i was jotting down a
forward
looking bigger ambition entrepreneurial
i think we're also here today from a lot
of the work that trevor did as a leader
cheers cheers
congratulations
you