Oh 哦
[Music] [音乐]
okay well I thought this time that I 好吧，我想这次是我
would actually cover some of the 实际上会覆盖一些
biblical stories so and hopefully a 圣经的故事如此并希望是
number of them as I said last time I'm 他们的数量，因为我上次说的我
going to go through this while as fast 要尽快完成这个任务
as I am able to I want to do it as 因为我能够做到这一点
completed job as possible and of course 尽可能完成工作，当然
the probability that I'll get through 我会得到的概率
the entire Bible is very low but we'll 整个圣经很低，但我们会
get through a lot of the major stories 通过大量 的主要故事得到
in the beginning of it and that's a good 在它的开始， 这是一个很好的
start and then you know assuming that 开始，然后你知道假设
this all goes well then maybe I'll try 这一切顺利，那么也许我会尝试
to do the same thing again either in the 要么再次做同样的事情
fall or next year so assuming I'm that 假设我是这样，那么下一年还是明年
everything is still working out properly 一切都还在工作正常进行
next year it's a long ways away all 明年这是一个长期的方式远离一切
right so I guess we'll start so last 对，所以我想我们会最后开始
week I talked to you about a line in the 每周我都会跟你谈谈关于一条线的问题
New Testament that was from John and it 新约是来自约翰和它
was a line that was designed to parallel 是一条设计为平行的线
the opening of Genesis and it's it's a 创世纪的开幕，这是一个
really important line and I thought I 真的很重要，我想我
would re-emphasize it because the Bible 会因为圣经而重新强调它
is a book that's been written forward 是被铭刻着一本书
and backwards in time in some sense like 并在某种意义上像时间倒退
most books because if you write a book 大多数书籍是因为如果你写书
of course when you get to the end if 当然 ，当你到结束时，如果
you're the writer you can adjust the 你是你可以调整的作家
beginning and so on so it has this odd 开始等等，所以它有这个奇怪
it has this appearance of linearity but 它具有这种线性的外观，但是
it really it isn't linear it's like 它真的不是线性的，就像
you're God in some sense standing 你在某种意义上是神
outside of time that's your book and you 时间之外，这是你的书和你
can play with time anywhere along it and 可以随时随地一起玩耍和
the people who put the book together or 谁把书堂的人或
the books together took full advantage 这些书一起充分利用
of that and and and that makes the story 那个和那个，这使得故事
it gives the story odd parallels in in 它给了这个故事奇怪的相似之处
many many places in a very large number 很多地方都有很多
of places and this is one of the major 的地方，这是主要的
parallels at least from the perspective 至少从角度来说是相似的
of the Christian interpretation of the 的基督教解释
Bible which of course includes the New 圣经当然包括新的
Testament and so there's this strange 遗嘱等都有这个奇怪的
idea that Christ was the same factor 认为基督是同样的因素
or force that God used at the beginning 或上帝在开始时使用的力量
of time to speak habitable order into 的时间说适合入住的订单
being and that's a very very strange 这是非常奇怪的
idea you know it's not it's not 想法你知道这不是不是
something that can be just easily 这可以很容易
dismissed as superstition partly because 部分因为迷信而被视为迷信
it's so strange it doesn't it doesn't 这很奇怪，但事实并非如此
even fit the definition of like a 甚至符合像a的定义
superstitious belief it's it's a 迷信的信念就是这样
dreamlike belief in some sense and what 某种意义上的梦幻般的信仰和什么
I what I see many of the ideas in the 我什么我看到很多的想法
Bible as is is these dreamlike ideas 圣经就是这些梦幻般的想法
that that under not lie are our 这是在没有说谎是我们的
normative cognition and that constitute 规范认知和构成
the ground from which are more 地面更多
articulate articulated and and explicit 清楚地表达清晰
ideas have emerged and this one's so 想法已经出现， 并且这个是如此
complicated this idea is so complicated 这个想法复杂得如此复杂
that it's still mostly embedded in 它仍然主要嵌入
dreamlike form but it seems to have 梦幻般的形式，但它似乎有
something to do with the primacy of 事做的首要地位
consciousness and this is one of the 意识，这是其中之一
biggest issues regarding the structure 关于结构的最大问题
of reality as far as I can tell because 据我所知，因为现实
everyone from physicists to 从物理学家到每个人
neurobiologists debates this there's 神经生物学家就此进行辩论
there's the the stumbling block for a 还有的绊脚石了
purely objective view of the world seems 似乎是纯粹客观的世界观
to me to be consciousness and 给我意识和
consciousness has all sorts of strange 意识有种种奇怪
properties for example it isn't obvious 属性，例如它并不明显
what constitutes time or at least 什么构成时间或至少
duration in the absence of consciousness 持续时间在没有意识的情况下
and it isn't also easy to understand 它是不是也很容易理解
what constitutes being in the absence of 什么构成在没有的情况下
consciousness because it seems to be the 意识，因为它似乎是
case well if a movie is running and 好的情况下， 如果电影正在运行和
there's no one to watch it I know it 没人看我知道
sounds like the tree and the forest 听起来就像是树和 森林
idea but it's it's not that idea at all 的想法，但它是不是这个想法在所有
if a movie is watching is running and no 如果电影正在观看正在运行并且没有
one's watching it in what sense is can 一个人从什么意义上看是可以的
you say that there's even a movie 你说甚至有电影
running because the movie seems to be 因为这部电影似乎在运行
the experience of the movie not the 电影的经验，而不是
objective elements of the movie and 电影和电影的客观因素
there's something about the world at 世界上有一些东西在
least insofar as we're in it as human 至少就我们作为人类而言
beings that is dependent on conscious 依靠意识的众生
experience of the world now of course 对世界的体验，现在当然
you can take consciousness out of the 你可以把意识带出来
world and say well if none of us were 世界，并说如果我们都不是
here if there was no such thing at 这里如果没有这样的事情
consciousness then the cosmos would 那么宇宙会意识到
continue running the way it is running 继续运行它的运行方式
but of course it depends on what exactly 但当然这取决于究竟是什么
you mean by the cosmos when you make a 你的意思是你在做宇宙时的宇宙
statement like that because there's 这样的陈述，因为有
something about the subjective 关于主观的东西
perience of reality that gives it 给予它的现实的经验
reality or at least that's one way of 现实或至少这是一种方式
looking at it and since we're all pretty 看着它，因为我们都很漂亮
enamored of our own consciousness as 迷恋于我们自己的意识
although they're painful because they 虽然他们很痛苦，因为他们
define our being it's not unreasonable 定义我们的存在并非不合理
to give consciousness a kind of 让意识成为一种
metaphysical primacy now and it's deeper 形而上学的首要地位，而且更深刻
than that you know deeper idea than that 比你知道的比更深的想法
because there are physicists and they're 因为有物理学家，他们是
not trivial physicists like like John 不像约翰那样微不足道的物理学家
Wheeler who believes that in some sense 从某种意义上说，惠勒相信这一点
consciousness plays a constitutive role 意识起着构成性的作用
in transforming the chaotic potential of 在改变混沌的潜力
being into the actuality of being he 成为他的现实
actually thinks about it he's not alive 实际上认为他没有活着
anymore but he actually thought about it 但他实际上已经想过了
as as playing a constitutive role you 就像你扮演一个构成角色一样
know and then from the neurobiological 知道然后从神经生物学
perspective or from the scientific 视角还是来自科学
perspective it's not consciousness is 透视它不是意识
not something we understand I don't 不是我们理解我不了解的东西
think we understand it at all it's 认为我们完全理解它
something we can't get a handle on with 这是我们无法得到一个手柄上
our fundamental materialist philosophy 我们的基本唯物主义哲学
and I don't know why that is it's quite 我不知道这是为什么
frustrating if you're a scientist but it 令人沮丧的是，如果你是一个科学家，但它
isn't clear to me that we've made any 我不清楚我们做了什么
progress whatsoever in understanding 理解进步
consciousness even though what we've 即使我们有什么 意识
been trying to understand it for 一直试图理解它
hundreds of years and even though 几百年， 尽管如此
psychologists and neurobiologist and so 心理学家和神经生物学家等等
forth have really like put a lot of 真的很喜欢投入很多
effort into understanding consciousness 努力去理解意识
from a scientific perspective in the 从科学的角度出发
last 50 years so anyways what it seems 过去50年，所以反正什么，似乎
to me is the idea that that God used the 对我来说就是上帝用这个想法
word to to extract order out of 单词来提取订单
habitable order out of chaos at the 适合居住的秩序在混乱
beginning of time which is roughly the 开始的时间大致是这样
right way of thinking about it seems to 考虑这个问题的正确方法 似乎
me deeply allied with the idea that what 我的想法是，我们深表结盟
it is that we do as human beings is is 我们是这样做的，因为人类就是这样
encounter something like a formless and 遇到类似无形的东西
potential chaos I mean we're not 潜在的混乱我的意思是我们不是
omniscient obviously and we can't just 无所不知显然，我们不能只
do whatever we want but we encounter a 做任何我们想要的，但我们遇到一个
formless and chaotic potential that's 无形和混乱的潜力
always what we're grappling with and 总是我们正在努力的
somehow we use our consciousness to give 不知怎的，我们用我们的意识来给予
that form and this is how people act 这种形式，这是人们如何行事
like if you look at how they regard 就像你看他们如何看待
themselves it's how they act because you 他们自己就是这样，因为你
say things to people like well you 说事的人喜欢你很好
should live up to your potential when 应该辜负你的潜力时
you make a case that there's something 你做出一个有些事情的例子
about a person that's more than what is 关于一个比现在更重要的人
that yet could be if only they 如果只有他们 ，那也可能是
participated in the process properly 参加工艺不当
and everyone knows what that means and 每个人都知道这意味着什么
no one acts like a mystery has been 没有人像一个神秘的行为一直
uttered when you say that and you know 当你这样说，你知道的时候说出
you can see a situation in your own life 你可以在自己的生活中看到一种情况
that's full of potential you're often 这是你经常发挥的潜力
extremely excited when you encounter 遇到时非常激动
something that's full of potential 一些充满潜力的东西
because what you see is something that 因为你看到的是这样的
could be you see a future beckoning for 可能你会看到未来的召唤
you that could be if only you interacted 你可能是只有你互动
with it properly and it activates your 与它正确，它激活你的
nervous system right in a very basic way 神经系统是以非常基本的方式进行的
and we even understand how that happens 我们甚至明白这是如何发生的
to the degree that we understand how the 到我们了解如何的程度
nervous system works because the systems 神经系统的工作原理，因为系统
that mediate positive emotion which are 调解积极的情绪是
governed roughly by dopa by the 由杜巴粗略管理
neurochemical dopamine and which have 神经化学多巴胺和哪些有
their roots way down in the ancient 他们的根源就在古代
hypothalamus a very very archaic and and 下丘脑非常非常古老和
fundamental part of the brain it that 大脑它的基本组成部分是
responds to potential which is the 回应潜力是这样的
possibility of accruing something new 积累新事物的可能性
and valuable it responds to potential 并且它对潜在的响应很有价值
with active movement forward and 与主动运动向前
engagement and so we're engaged in the 参与，所以我们参与了
world as potential and looks like 世界是潜在的，看起来像
consciousness does that and so there's 意识这样做，所以有
this idea that this is the main idea 这是这个主意的想法
that I think is being put forth in 我认为正在推出
Genesis one it's something like and you 创世纪之一它就像你一样
see this in mythology like from from 从神话中看到这一点
what I've been able to gather there's 这是我能够收集到的
always three causal elements that make 总是3因果的元素，使
up being at the bottom of world 在世界的底部
mythology and one is the formless 神话和一个是无形的
potential that makes up being once it's 潜在的成就一旦成为现实
interacted with and that's generally 互动， 这是普遍的
given a feminine nature and I think 考虑到女性的性质，我认为
that's because it's like the source from 那是因为它就像源头
which all things emerge and rise it's 这所有的东西出现，并超越它的
something like that it's more 像这样的事情更多
complicated than that but it's something 比这更复杂，但它是一些东西
like that and then there's some kind of 像那样，然后有某种
interpretive structure that has to 必须解释的结构
grapple with that formless potential and 抓住那无形的潜力和
that's I think that's the sort of thing 这就是我认为的那种事情
that was alluded to by Immanuel Conklin 这是伊曼纽尔康克林 提到的
when he was criticizing the notion that 当时他正在批评这个概念
all of our information comes from sense 我们所有的信息都来自意义
data which would be the pure empirical 数据将是纯粹的经验
perspective right because when you 透视权，因为当你
encounter the world you encounter it 遇到你遇到的世界
with a cognitive structure that already 已经有了认知结构
has shape and so it's already in you 已经形成，所以它已经在你身上
this structure and without that a priori 这种结构并没有这种先验
structure you wouldn't be able to take 结构，你将无法取
the formless potential and give it 无形的潜力，并给它
structure and I think that's something 结构，我认为这是一些东西
it's a can in some way to the idea of 这是一个可以在某种程度上的想法
God the Father and I'll try to develop 上帝， 我会尽力发展
that idea more it's it's the it's the 这种想法更是它的它的
notion that there's something 认为有某种东西
in all of us that transcends all of us 在我们所有人中超越我们所有人
that's deeply structural that's part of 这是深层次的结构
this ancient while I would say 这个古老而我会说
evolutionary and cultural process that 进化和文化的过程
enables us to grapple with the formless 使我们能够解决无形的问题
potential and bring forth reality 潜力并带来现实
roughly speaking and then there's the 粗略地说，然后就是这个了
final element and that element seems to 最终元素和那个元素似乎是
be something like consciousness itself 像意识本身一样
the consciousness that actually in 其实在的意识
here's in the individual so it's not 这是在个人，所以它不是
only that you have a structure it's that 只有你有一个这样的结构
the structure has the capacity for 结构有能力
action in the world and it's like it's 世界上的行动，就像它
your this your the spirit that gives the 你的这种精神赋予了你
dead structure life it's something like 死的结构生活就像是
that and as far as I can tell the 这一点，据 我可以告诉
Trinitarian notion that characterizes 三位一体的概念的特点
Christianity is something like well 基督教很好
formless potential which is never given 永不放弃的无形的潜力
a the status of a deity in Christianity 基督教中神的地位
and then the notion that there's an a 然后有一个概念
priori interpretive structure that's a 先验的解释结构，这是一个
consequence of our ancient existence as 我们作为古代存在的后果
beings it goes back as far in time as 众生它可以追溯到的时间
you can go the notion of a structure and 你可以去一个结构的概念和
then the idea of a consciousness that 那么意识的想法就是这样
that is the is the tool of that 这是是该工具
structure and that interacts with the 结构并与之相互作用
world and gives it and gives it reality 世界并赋予它并赋予它现实
and that's the word as far as I can tell 就我所知，这就是这个词
and so the notion is is that there's a 所以概念是有一个
father and that's the structure and 父亲，那就是结构和
there's a son that's transcendent that 有一个儿子，就是那超越
characterizes consciousness itself and 表征意识本身和
that it's the son the speaking of the 这是儿子的发言
son that is the active principle that 儿子就是那个活跃的原则
turns chaos into order and god it's such 把混乱变成秩序，上帝就是这样
a sophisticated ideas as far as I'm 一个复杂的想法，就我而言
concerned because well there's something 有关，因为有一些东西
about it that's at least predominately 关于它至少占主导地位
accurate because you do have an 准确，因为你有一个
interpretive structure and you couldn't 解释结构，你不能
understand anything without it your very 明白什么， 没有它你的
body is an interpretive structure right 身体是一种解释性结构权利
it's been crafted over let's say three 它已经制作完了，让我们说三个
billion years of evolution without that 如果没有这个，亿万年的进化
you wouldn't be able to perceive 你将无法感知
anything and it's taken a lot of death 任何事情，它都会带来很多的死亡
and struggle and tragedy to produce you 挣扎和悲剧来创造你
the thing that's capable of encountering 这是能够遇到的事情
this immense chaos that surrounds us and 这种围绕着我们和周围的巨大混乱
to transform it into habitable order and 把它变成可居住的秩序和
then there's the idea - of course it's 那么就有这个想法 - 当然是这样
deeply embedded in the first chapters of 深深植根于 第一章
Genesis which is a staggering idea you 创世纪这是一个惊人的想法你
know and and certainly not one that's 知道，当然不是那样的
likely that human beings were made in 可能是人类被制造出来的
the M M
of God both male and female were made in 上帝的男性和女性 中作了
the image of God and that's of course a 上帝的形象，这当然是
very difficult thing to understand 很难理解
partly because the God that's referred 部分原因是因为提到的上帝
to in the in those chapters has a kind 在那些章节中有一种
of polytheistic element although it's an 多神论元素尽管它是一个
element that's moving rapidly towards a 元素迅速 走向一个
unified monotheism but it's not also 统一的一神论，但它不是还
obvious to me why people would come up 明显，我为什么人们会走过来
with that concept because I don't really 与概念，因为我真的不
think that when we think about each 认为当我们考虑每一个时
other we immediately think God like you 其他我们立即认为上帝喜欢你
know the notion that every single human 知道 每一个人的概念
being regardless of their peculiarities 而无论 其特殊性
and strangeness --is and sins and crimes 和陌生 - 是罪和罪
and all of that has something divine in 所有这些都有神圣的东西
them that needs to be regarded with 他们需要被视为
respect and that plays an integral role 尊重和发挥着不可或缺的作用
at least an analogy an analogous role in 至少类比是一个类似的角色
the creation of habitable order out of 创建可居住的命令
chaos that's a magnificent remarkable 这是一个非常了不起的混乱
crazy idea and yet we developed it and I 疯狂的想法，但我们开发它和我
do firmly believe that it sits at the 坚定地相信它坐落在
base of our legal system I think it is 我认为这是我们法律体系的基础
the cornerstone of our legal system 我们法律制度的基石
that's the notion that everyone is equal 这就是人人平等的观念
before God which is of course a 在上帝面前，这当然是
completely that's such a strange idea 完全是这样一个奇怪的想法
it's very difficult to understand how 这很难理解
anybody could have ever come up with 任何人都可以曾经拿出
that idea because the manifold 那个想法因为多方面
differences between people are so so 人与人之间的差异是如此
obvious and so evident that you could 显而易见的，你可以
say the natural way of viewing someone 说看到某人的自然方式
is or human beings is in this extremely 或者是人类在这个极端
hierarchical manner where some people 等级方式在哪里有人
are contemptible and and and easily 是轻而易举的
brushed off as pointless and 刷过作为无意义和
pathological and and without value 病态和没有价值
whatsoever and all the power accrues to 无论如何，所有的权力累积起来
a certain tiny you know aristocratic 一个你认识贵族的小人
minority at the top but if you look at 顶部的少数民族， 但如果你看
the way that the idea of the individual 个人的想法的方式
sovereignty developed it's clear that it 主权开发很明显，它
unfolded over thousands and perhaps ten 展现了数千甚至十个展览
thousands of years before it became 千百年来它成为前
something firmly fixed in the 东西牢牢地固定在
imagination that each individual had 每个人都有想象力
something of transcendent value about 有关超越价值的东西
them and man I tell you we dispense with 他们和男人，我告诉你，我们免去了
that idea at our serious peril and so 那个想法在我们严重的危险之中等等
and if you're going to take that idea 如果你打算采取这个想法
seriously then which you do because you 严重的是你因为你而做了什么
act it out because otherwise you 实施它，否则你
wouldn't be law abiding citizens right 不会成为守法公民的权利
you act that idea out it's it's it's 你将这个想法表达出来就是了
it's firmly shared by by everyone who 每个人都坚决赞同
Ochs in a civilized manner the question 奥克斯以文明的方式提出了这个问题
is why in the world do you believe it 这就是你为什么相信它的原因
assuming that you believe what you act 假设你相信你的行为
out which i think is a really good way 我认为这是一个非常好的方法
of fundamentally defining belief so all 从根本上定义所有信仰
right so so that's the sort of ideas 对，所以这就是这种想法
that there's this this god of tradition 这就是这个传统的神
and structure that's that's God the 和那是上帝的结构
Father who uses the Sun which is more of 父亲是谁使用Sun其中更多的是
an active force and and primarily 主动和主要
something that's verbal which I also 我也是口头上的东西
think is extremely interesting because 认为是非常有趣的，因为
it's associated not with thought 它与思想不相关
precisely but with speech and I think 精确而言，但我想
the reason for that is is that there's 原因是这样的
something to speech that's more than 不止是言语
mere thought and I think part of the 仅仅是思想而我认为是其中的一部分
reason for that is that speech is a 原因是那个演讲是一个
public utterance and at least in 公开言论，至少在英国
principle speech is something that's 原则性演讲是这样的
shaped by the existence of of everywhere 由到处存在而塑造
of everyone else at least across time 其他人至少在不同时间
because when you speak you your speeches 因为当你讲你的演讲时
is put forward in the world as a causal 作为一种因果关系在世界上被提出来
element and it's also subject to 元素，它也受制于
criticism and and and cooperation and 批评与和合作
mutual shaping and so there's an idea 相互塑造，所以有一个想法
here too that speech is that that the 这里也是这个讲话是的
cognitive processes that bring habitable 认知过程带来可居住
reality out of out of uninhabitable 现实脱离不可居住
chaos have this collective and public 混乱有这个集体和公众
element which which is part of the 元素是哪一部分的
reason by the way that an advocate of 通过一个倡导者的方式推理
free speech let's say above all because 自由言论首先要说，因为
I don't think although it is the case 我不认为这是事实
for example in the Canadian Bill of 例如在加拿大法案
Rights that every single right has equal 每一项权利都拥有平等的权利
value that's the theory it's an idiotic 值是理论这是一个愚蠢的
theory because it's absolutely 理论，因为它是绝对的
impossible for a large set of race to 不可能一大组比赛进行 到
have absolutely equal standards statuses 有完全相同的标准状态
that cannot happen there's no way that 那不可能发生，没有办法
that can never work but that is the 那永远无法工作，但那是事实
legal judgment but I think it's a huge 法律判断，但我认为这是一个巨大的
mistake because free speech has this 错误，因为言论自由有这个
while this divine quality let's say that 而这神圣的品质让我们这样说
you can't escape from because it's the 你无法逃避，因为它是
thing that manufactures everything else 制造一切的东西
you know it's and so and I do think that 你知道它的等等 ，我确实认为，
the the dream that you could think of as 你能想到的梦想
encapsulated in the stories in Genesis 封装在创世纪的故事中
is is the dream by which human beings 是人类的梦想
dreamed up the idea that we would now 梦见了的想法，我们现在
consider consciousness because you know 考虑意识，因为你知道
it took us a long time to figure out the 我们花了很长时间才弄清楚
word consciousness it's not like it's 词意识它不是这样
bloody obvious 血腥明显
it knows how many thousands of years or 它知道多少万的年
who knows what struggles we had to 谁知道我们不得不努力
undertake to abstract out something like 承诺抽象出类似的东西
consciousness and how we had to 意识和我们如何
represent that dramatically say or 代表那戏剧性的说或
symbolically or in a dreamlike fashion 象征性地或以梦幻般的方式
before we could actually formulate the 然后才能真正制定出来
term and and localize that to some 长期和本地化的一些
degree in people it's very sophisticated 人们的程度非常复杂
so so John makes the case that well 所以约翰很好地说明了这一点
there's there's an emanation of God or 那里有上帝的气息
an element of God the transcendent 超越神的元素
consciousness it's something like that 意识是类似的东西
that acts directly and in a sort of 直接和作用在几分
living way with the with the underlying 与底层的生活方式
potential of the world and I think that 世界的潜力，我认为，
that's phenomenologically accurate and I 这在现象学上是准确的，而我
do think that that's the way we regard 确实认为这就是我们所关注的方式
our lives because you know when you 因为你知道我们的生活
think about it too we tend to think that 想一想，我们也倾向于这样想
what you encounter when you're looking 你在看什么时会遇到什么
at the world is the material world but 在世界是物质世界，但
that isn't how you act you do act as if 这不是你如何行事，你的行为就好像
you're in a place of potential and also 你在一个地方的潜力，也
in a place of potential that you can 在一个有潜力的地方，你可以
actually transform which is also 实际上也是变换
something extraordinarily strange you 有点奇怪你
know because we do treat each other as 知道是因为我们相互对待
if we're capable of bringing new forms 如果我们能够带来新的形式
into the world in some permanent manner 以某种永久的方式进入世界
right and we treat each other as if we 正确，我们相互对待，就好像我们一样
have free choice and free will and 有自由选择和自由意志和
perhaps we don't but it's certainly the 也许我们不会，但它肯定是
case that societies that are predicated 案例是那些被预测的社会
on the idea that we don't don't do very 关于我们不这样做的想法
well and societies that are predicated 以及预测的社会
on the idea that we do seem to do a lot 我们确实做了很多事情
better 更好
Plus people tend to get very annoyed at 加上人们往往会非常恼火
you if you treat them like they're 你如果你像对待他们一样
automatons that lack freewill there's 那些缺乏自由意志的自动机器
something that people find very I would 这是人们发现我会的
say constraining slave-like about that 说约束奴隶就是这样
even you know that that's a demand that 即使你知道这是一个需求
you don't have actual autonomy and even 你没有实际的自主权，甚至没有
worse that you're not responsible for 更糟糕的是，你不负责任
your choices it's an insult to someone 你的选择是对某人的侮辱
to suggest to them that they're not 向他们建议他们不是
responsible for their choices you know 负责你所知道的选择
you usually to do that to someone from a 你通常做的人从
legal perspective you have to argue 法律观点你必须争论
something like diminished capacity right 像容量权利减少了
well you're mentally ill or you don't 好吧，你精神病或者你没有
have the intellectual capacity or or or 具有智力能力或或或
you were or you were addled by some 你是或者你被一些人吞没了
substance or you had a brain injury or 物质或你有脑损伤或
something and that's why you're not 这就是为什么你不是
responsible for your actions otherwise 否则负责你的行为
part of the respect that you get 你得到的部分尊重
to another human being is the assumption 对另一个人是假设
that they're responsible for their 他们对他们负责
actions and some of that can be well if 行动和其中一些可以很好，如果
you do something bad then you're 你做的不好，那么你就是
responsible for it but part of that too 对此负责，但也是其中的一部分
is that if you do something good you're 如果你做得很好，你就是
also responsible for that and that also 也负责这一点，也是
seems necessary because I mean do you 似乎是必要的，因为我的意思是你
really I mean it's got to be more 真的，我的意思是它应该更多
annoying than anything else you can 讨厌比任何你可以
imagine to strive virtuously let's say 想象一下，尽情地努力让我们说
to produce something of extreme value 产生极端价值的东西
and then to be treated as if that was a 然后被当作是一个对待
mere deterministic outcome and that your 仅仅是确定性的结果，而你的
your actual choices have nothing to do 你的实际选择无关
with that I mean people find that sort 我的意思是人们可以找到那种
of thing extraordinarily punishing and 惩罚和惩罚的东西
so I'm willing to you know I mean I know 所以我愿意你知道我的意思是我知道
that there are debates about all these 有关于所有这些的辩论
things and debates about free will and 事情和辩论关于自由意志和
debates about the nature of 关于性质的辩论
consciousness but I'm trying to take a 意识， 但我试图采取一个
clearer look at how people act and how 更清楚地看待人们如何行事和如何行事
they want to be treated and then to 他们想得到治疗，然后去
trace it back to these old ideas to see 追溯到这些古老的想法看
if there's some if there's some 如果有一些，如果有一些
metaphysical let's say metaphysical 形而上学让我们说形而上学
connection so all right so here's how 连接，所以这是如何
the here's how the book opens in the 这里是这本书如何打开的
beginning God created the heavens and 开始创造天堂和天堂
the earth the earth was without form and 地球是没有形式和地球的
void and darkness was over the face of 空虚和黑暗是在面对
the deep and the Spirit of God was 上帝的灵和深处是
hovering over the face of the waters now 现在运行在水面上的脸
this is a hard this is a hard what would 这是一个很难，这是一个很难的事情
you call narrative section to get a 你称叙述部分得到一个
handle on because in order to understand 为了理解而处理
it properly you have to actually look 它正确地你必须真正看
behind it so there are a lot of pieces 它后面有很多碎片
of old stories in the Old Testament that 旧约中的旧故事
flesh out the meaning of these lines and 充实这些线条和意义
I can I can give you a quick overview of 我可以给你一个快速的概述
it one of the ideas that lurks 它是潜伏的想法之一
underneath these lines although you 在这些线下面， 尽管你
can't tell because it's in English you 不能说， 因为它是英文的你
have to look at the original languages 必须看看原始语言
and of course I don't speak the original 当然我不会讲原文
languages so I've had to use secondary 语言，所以我不得不使用次要的
sources too bad for me but the the the 对我来说太糟糕了，但是对我来说太糟糕了
without form and void and the deep idea 没有形式，无效和深刻的想法
you see that's associated with this 你看到这与此有关
notion of endless deep potential so for 因此，为无尽的深潜力的概念
example the words that are 例如， 是的话
use to represent without form and void 用来表示没有形式和无效
or something like well one is toll I'm 或者类似的东西，我就是收费
going to get this partly wrong toll who 要得到这个部分错误收费谁
elbow who and another one is tailed and 肘谁和另一个是尾巴和
it's important to know this because 知道这一点很重要，因为
those words are associated with an early 这些词与早期相关
mess earlier Mesopotamian word which is 混淆早期的美索不达米亚文字
Tiamat and timeout was a dragon-like 提亚马特和超时时间是龙状的
creature who represented the salt water 代表咸水的生物
and and timeout had a husband named AB 和超时有一个叫AB的丈夫
so and timeout adapts who were sort of 所以和超时适应谁是有点
locked together and kind of a sexual 锁在一起，有点性
embrace and it was that locking together 拥抱和锁定在一起
of time at a nap sue and I would say 在午睡时间， 我会说
that's potential and order something 这是潜力和订购的东西
like that or chaos in order they were 这样的混乱或 为了他们
locked together and it was that union of 锁定在一起，那就是那个联盟
chaos and order that gave rise in the 混乱和秩序，引起了
old Mesopotamian myth which is the Anu 这是阿努古老的美索不达米亚神话
male ish to the to the two being to the 男性对这两个人来说是这样的
old gods first and then eventually as 老神，然后最终成为
creation progressed to human beings 创造发展到人类
themselves and so there's this idea 他们自己，所以有这个想法
lurking underneath this these initial 潜伏在这些最初的底下
lines that God is akin to that which 上帝与此类似的线条
confronts the unknown and carves it into 面对未知并将其刻入
pieces and makes the world out of its 并让世界摆脱它的困境
pieces and the thing that it confronts 件和它面临的事情
is something like a well it's something 就像一个好东西一样
like a predatory reptile or something 像掠食性爬行动物或其他东西
like a dragon or it's something like a 就像一条龙，或者它就像一条
serpent and I think part of the reason 蛇和我认为部分原因
for that and this this is this is a very 为此，这是这是一个非常
deep and ancient idea is that this is 深刻和古老的想法是，这是
where it gets so complicated to do the 那里做得太复杂了
translation is partly that is how human 翻译部分是怎样的人
beings created our world like we went 众生像我们去的那样创造了我们的世界
out beyond the confines of our safe 超出我们保险箱的范围
spaces let's say our space our safe 空间让我们说我们的空间我们的安全
space is defined by by the tree or 空间由树或者定义
defined by the fire and we actively 由火和我们积极定义
voyaged outward to the places that we 向外运到我们的地方
were afraid of and didn't understand and 害怕的，不明白和
conquer and conquered and encountered 征服，征服和遇到
things out there like like ant like 那里的东西就像蚂蚁一样
literally animals like mammoths and 从字面上看，动物就像猛犸象和野兽一样
snakes and predators of all sorts and it 蛇和各种各样的食肉动物
was as a consequence of that active 那是积极的结果
brave engagement with the domain of what 勇于接触的领域是什么
we did not understand the terrifying 我们不了解可怕的事情
domain of what we did not understand 我们不明白的领域
that the world in fact was generated and 事实上这个世界是由这个世界产生的
that idea lurks be plea inside that the 那个想法潜伏在那里
opening lines of of genesis and it's and 创世纪的开始和它的和
it's a profound idea in my estimation 我估计这是一个深刻的想法
and i think 我想
see I think also that the way our brains 看到我还认为我们的大脑的方式
are structured and this is something 结构化， 这是一些东西
that I'm going to try to develop more 我将尝试开发更多
today is that the ancient circuits that 今天是那古老的电路
our ancestors used to deal with the 我们的祖先用来对付这个
space beyond which they had already 他们已经超出了这个空间
explored that would be home territory 探索这将是本土领土
that so that's that unknown territory 那就是那个未知的领域
that's that's characterized by promise 这就是承诺的特点
because there are new things out there 因为那里有新东西
but also by intense danger right because 但也由于强烈的危险
we're prey animals especially millions 我们特别是数百万的猎物
of years ago when we were very young we 多年前我们很小的时候
had to go out there and encounter things 必须出去并遇到事情
that were terribly dangerous and there 这是非常危险的，有
was a kind of let's say paternal courage 是一种让我们说父权的勇气
that went along with that and it was 随之而来的就是这样
that the spirit of paternal courage that 那是父亲的勇气精神
enabled the conquering of the unknown 使未知的征服成为可能
and there's no difference between the 并没有什么区别
conquering of the unknown and the 征服未知的和
creation of habitable order and the 创造可居住的秩序和
thing is is that as our cognitive 事情是，作为我们的认知
faculties have developed to the point 学院已经发展到了这一点
where we're capable of very high levels 我们能够达到非常高的水平
of abstraction the underlying biological 抽象的基础生物
architecture has remained the same and 架构一直保持不变
so I don't think that it's too much to 所以我不认为这太多了
say at all that the the circuits that 说一切， 那些电路
you that engage you for example when 例如，当你参与你的时候
you're having an argument about 你有一个争论
something fundamental with someone that 一些基本的东西
you love and so you're trying to 你爱，所以你试图
structure the world around you jointly 共同构筑你周围的世界
to create a habitable space that you can 创造一个可以居住的空间
both exist within you're using the same 两者都存在于你正在使用的相同
circuits the extracted version you're 电路提取你的版本
using the same circuits that our archaic 使用与我们古老相同的电路
ancestors would have used when they went 当他们去时，祖先会使用它
out into the unknown itself to encounter 进入未知本身遇到
beasts and and and predators and and 野兽和和和掠夺者和
geographical unknowns it's the same 地理未知数是一样的
circuit it's just that we do it 这只是我们做的
abstractly now instead of concretely but 现在抽象地而不是具体地，但是
of course it has to be the same circuit 当然它必须是相同的电路
because evolution evolution Ares is a 因为进化演化战神是一个
very conservative force and what else 非常保守的力量，还有什么
would it be and this is also why I think 它会是什么，这也是我认为的原因
it's so easy for us to demonize those 它很容易让我们妖魔化
people who are enemies because our 因为我们而成为敌人的人
enemies confront us with what we don't 敌人面对我们，而我们不会
want to with what we don't want to see 想要用我们不想看到的东西
and they and because of that our first 和他们，因为我们的第一个
response is to use snake circuit or 回应是使用蛇电路还是
snake detection circuitry on them and 蛇和他们的检测电路
that accounts for our capacity almost 这几乎占我们的能力
immediate capacity to demonize and and 直接妖魔化和和的能力
there's a reason for that it's not a 还有一个原因它不是一个
trivial thing first of all it's a very 首先它是一件非常重要的事情
fast respond 快速响应
and second of all it's a response that 其次，这是一个回应
has worked for a very very very long 已经工作了很长时间
time and so you know one of the variants 时间，所以你知道其中的一个变种
of the hero and I would consider a 的英雄，我会考虑一个
variant of the hero a like a fragment of 英雄的变体像片段一样
the picture of God is is the heroic 上帝的图像是英雄
warrior who slays the enemy right and of 战士谁杀死敌人的权利和
course that's not precisely a 当然，这不完全是
politically correct representation of 政治上正确表示
the hero in modern times and well in no 近代英雄，没有
wonder but it's still something that you 不知道， 但它仍然是你 的东西
go watch in movies all the time and 一直在看电影
admire right it's it's like this one of 很欣赏它就像这个一样
the most how many plots are there 最多的地块在那里
romance and adventure that's about it 浪漫和冒险就是这样
and most of the adventure genre is well 而大部分的冒险类型都很好
there's some enemy that's lurking in 有一些潜伏的敌人
some form it could be human it could be 它可能是人类的某种形式
alien and someone rises up to go and 外星人和某人上升去和
confront it maintain order you know it's 面对它维持秩序你知道它的
like there's no getting away from that 就像没有摆脱那样
story and and if you don't have that in 故事和如果你没有
your own life then you play a video game 你自己的生活，然后你玩一个电子游戏
where that's happening or you watch a 那里正在发生或者你正在看一个
movie where that's happening you read a 电影在哪里发生， 你读了一个
book where that's happening and it 预订那里正在发生的事情和它
captures you even if you're atheistic 即使你是无神论者也能抓住你
and your only religion is star wars you 而你唯一的宗教就是星球大战
know and and it's still well really 知道并且它仍然很好
really right it really it still captures 真的对，它仍然捕获
your imagination and you act like 你的想象力，你像
someone who's possessed by religious 有宗教信仰的人
fervor when you line up for three days 当你排队三天时激动
to be the first one into the theater you 成为第一个走进 剧场你
know and all the while claiming that 知道并一直声称这一点
you're atheistic to the core it's like 你对这个核心无神论
okay so this this without form and void 好吧，所以这没有形式和无效
is this chaotic and it said it's hard 这是混乱的，它说这很难
thing that it's a hard thing to get a 这是一件很难得到的事情
grip on you know what exactly this means 你握知道究竟这意味着
but I can give you another kind of 但我可以给你另一种
example of how you would experience the 你将如何体验的 例子
formless chaos of potential in your own 在你自己的潜力无形的混乱
lives and and even how the order that 生活和甚至如何秩序
you currently inhabit can dissolve into 你目前居住的可以溶入
that and you know in Dante's Inferno 那和你在但丁的地狱中所知道的一样
when he outlined the levels of Hell so 当他概述了地狱的水平，使
Dante was trying to get to the bottom of 但丁正试图达到最低点
what constituted evil really in this 这件事确实构成了邪恶
representation so it's a work of 表示，所以这是一个工作
psychology and he's thinking well there 心理学， 他在那里思考得很好
are various ways to behave reprehensibly 各种各样的方式来表现reprehensibly
but there's a hierarchy of reprehensible 但有一个应该受谴责的等级
behavior and there's something 行为，还有一些东西
absolutely the worst at the bottom and 绝对是最糟糕的
and 和
Daunte believe that it was betrayal and Daunte认为这是背叛和
and i think that's right because you 我认为这是正确的，因为你
know one of the things that enables a 知道其中一件事情，使一个
long-term cooperation peaceful 长期合作和平
cooperation between people is trust and 人与人之间的合作是信任和
i would also say that trust is the 我也会说，信任是
fundamental natural resource there's 基本的自然资源有
been some very good books written on the 写了一些非常好的书籍
economic utility of trust for example in 信任的经济效用，例如
societies where the default economic 社会默认经济
presupposition between trading partners 贸易伙伴之间的假设
is trust tend to be rich even if they 即使他们信任也往往很丰富
don't have any natural resources and you 没有任何自然资源和你
can see that for example with what 可以看到，例如什么
happened with ebay which I think was a 发生在eBay上，我认为它是
kind of miracle because what should have 因为应该有什么奇迹
happened with eBay was that you sent me 与eBay发生的是你发给我的
junk and I sent you a check that bounced 垃圾，我寄给你一张支票，反弹
right and that was the end of eBay but 没错，那是eBay的终结，但是
right right exactly but that isn't what 正确的权利，但这不是什么
happened like the default the default 发生像默认的默认
transaction on eBay was so honest that 在eBay上交易的是那么诚恳，
the brokers you could hire brokers to 你可以聘请经纪人来经纪
begin with I can't remember what they 首先我不记得他们是什么
were called exactly but you could pay 被称为完全但你可以支付
someone a fee so that they would 有人收取费用，以便他们愿意
guarantee the transaction so you know 保证交易，让你知道
you wouldn't send me junk and I'd 你不会送我垃圾，我会
actually send you a payment and we'd pay 实际上向您发送付款，我们会支付
10 percent for someone to guarantee that 10％的人为了保证这一点
the default trade was so honest that 默认的贸易是非常老实，所以
those things vanished right away and so 这些东西马上消失等等
that meant that all this frozen capital 这意味着所有这些冻结的资本
roughly speaking which were all the junk 粗略地说，这些都是垃圾
that people had lying around that 人们已经躺在那里
someone else might want instantly became 别人可能想立即成为
money and the only reason that worked 钱， 只有工作的原因
was because people trusted one another 是因为人们相互信任
and so Trust is an unbelievably powerful 所以信任是一个令人难以置信的强大
economic force may be the most powerful 经济力量可能是最强大的
economic force anyways if you have a 无论如何，如果你有一个 经济力量
relationship with someone it's 与某人的 关系
predicated on trust and part of the 以信任和部分为基础
reason for that is that Trust is what 原因是信任是什么
enables us to look at each other without 使我们无需看彼此
running away screaming and what I mean 逃跑尖叫，我的意思是
by that is that if I trust you then I 由是，如果我信任你，然后我
don't have to take into account how 不必考虑如何
complicated you are because you're 你是复杂的，因为你是
horribly complicated to know I think 知道我的想法非常复杂
chimpanzee full of snakes that's what a 黑猩猩充满了蛇，这是什么
human being is and as long as you'll do 人是只要 你会做
what you say you'll do then I can take 你说你会做什么，然后我可以采取
you at your word and your word 你在你的话和你的话
simplifies you and you can take me at my 简化你，你可以把我带到我的
word and my word simplifies you and then 单词和我的话简化你，然后
we can act like we understand each other 我们可以像我们彼此了解
even though we don't but then if that 即使我们不这样做，但如果那样的话
trust is betrayed then all the snakes 那么所有的蛇都会被背叛
come forth very very rapidly and so all 出现得非常迅速等等
of you I suspect have been 我怀疑你的
trade one way or another and so what 交易拉上还等什么
happens if you're in a relationship with 如果你与某人有关系，会发生
someone and you trust them then you make 有人和你相信他们，然后你做出
certain assumptions about the past and 关于过去和现在的某些假设
you make certain assumptions about the 您作出的某些假设
present and you make certain assumptions 目前和你做出某些假设
about the future and everything's stable 关于未来，一切都很稳定
and so you're standing on solid ground 所以你站在坚实的基础上
and the chaos it's like you're standing 和混乱它就像你站在
on thin ice the chaos is hidden the 在薄薄的冰面上 隐藏着混乱
shark beneath the waves isn't there 海浪下的鲨鱼不在那里
you're safe you're in the lifeboat but 你很安全，但你在救生艇上
then if the person betrays you like if 那么如果这个人如果背叛了你
you're in an intimate relationship and 你在亲密关系
the person has an affair and you find 这个人有外遇， 你会发现
out about it then then you think one 然后你会想到一个
moment you're one place right you're 一刻， 你就是一个地方
where everything is secure because 一切都是安全的，因为
you've predicated your perception of the 你已经预测你对这个问题的看法
world on the axiom of trust and the next 世界上的信任和下一个公理
second really the next second you're in 第二次真的是你接下来的第二秒
a completely different place and not 一个完全不同的地方，而不是
only is that place different right now 现在只是那个地方不同
the place you were years ago is 你几年前的地方是
different and the place you're going to 不同的，你要去的地方
be in the future years hence is 未来几年就是这样
different and so all of that certainty 不同的以及所有这些确定性
that strange certainty that you inhabit 你居住的奇怪的确定性
can collapse into incredible complexity 可以陷入令人难以置信的复杂性
and you say well if someone betrays you 如果有人背叛了你 ， 你说得好
you think well okay who were you because 你觉得很好，你是谁，因为
you weren't who I thought you were and I 你不是我以为你和我是谁
thought I knew you 我以为我认识你
but I didn't know you at all and I never 但我根本不认识你，我从来不认识你
knew you and so all the things we did 知道你和所以 我们做的事情
together those weren't the things that I 这些不是我的事情
thought were happening something else 思想发生了其他事情
was happening and you're you or someone 正在发生，你是你或某人
else and that means I'm someone else 别的，那意味着我是别人
because I thought I knew what was going 因为我想我知道发生了什么事情
on and clearly I don't I'm some sort of 很明显，我不知道我是某种人
blind sucker or the or the victim of a 盲人吸盘或者受害者
psychopath or someone who's so naive 精神病患者或某个天真的人
that they can barely live and I don't 他们几乎不能活，而我却没有
understand anything about human beings 了解有关人类的任何事情
and they don't understand anything about 他们对此一无所知
myself and I have no idea where I am now 我自己和我不知道我现在在哪里
I thought it was at home but I'm not I'm 我以为它在家，但我不是我
in a house and it's full of strangers 在一个房子里，它充满了陌生人
and I don't know what I'm going to do 我不知道我要做什么
tomorrow or next week or next year it's 明天或下周或明年是
like all of that certainty that 像所有这些确定的那样
habitable certainty it collapses right 可居住的确定性它崩溃的权利
back into the potential from which it 回到它的潜力
emerged and that's a terrifying thing 出现了，这是一件可怕的事情
that's a journey to the underworld from 这是从黑社会的旅程
a mythological perspective and that is 这是一个神话视角
really something worth knowing because 真的值得了解，因为
you know journeys to the underworld are 你知道黑社会的旅程
extraordinarily common in mythological 在神话中非常普遍
stories and you know like The Hobbit 故事，你知道像霍比特人
going out to find a Smaug the dragon and 走出去寻找一条史矛革龙
and get the gold as a journey into the 并获得黄金作为一个旅程进入
underworld and journeys to the 黑社会和旅程
underworld how 黑社会如何
and all the time and modern people don't 所有的时间和现代人都不会
understand what the Wonderworld is 了解Wonderworld是什么
except that we've all been there and we 除了我们都在那里和我们
go there all the time and we go there 一直去那里，我们去那里
every time the solidity and stability of 每一次的坚固性和稳定性
the world that we've erected at least 至少我们建立的世界
partly through our speech is shattered 部分通过我们的讲话破灭了
because while some sort of snake appears 因为虽然出现了某种蛇
that's another way of thinking about it 这是考虑这个问题的另一种方式
that it's a really good way of thinking 这是一个非常好的思考方式
about it because you know no matter how 它，因为你知道无论怎样
carefully you construct a little 小心你构建一点
habitable area that surround you there's 你周围有可居住区域
always something you didn't take into 总是你没有考虑到的东西
account and there's always something 帐户，总是有一些东西
that can pop up its head and do you in 那可以突然冒出头来让你进入
and make you aware of your mortality and 并让你意识到你的死亡率和
and age you for that matter or even kill 并为此而老化，甚至杀死
you and that's the permanent that's the 你和那是永久的
permanent situation of life which is 这是永久的生活状况
part of the reason why I think the story 我认为这个故事的部分原因
of Adam and Eve for example is 亚当和夏娃的例子是
archetypal it's because we do inhabit 原型这是因为我们居住
walled gardens right because a walled 围墙花园的权利，因为一个围墙
garden is half structure Society and 花园是半结构社会和
half nature that's what a walled garden 半自然，这是一个围墙花园
is and a walled garden is a place of 是和围墙花园是一个地方
paradise and warmth and and and and and 天堂和温暖，和和和
and love and and and sustenance but it's 和爱，并且寄托， 但它是
also the place where something can pop 也是在东西可以在弹出的地方
up at any moment and knock you out of it 多达在任何时刻敲它 ，你出来
and I think part of the reason that that 我认为的原因，一部分
story exists at the beginning of this 故事存在于今年年初
collection of books is because it 收藏书籍是因为它
explains the eternal situation of human 解释人类永恒的状况
beings we're always in that situation 我们总是处于这种状况
we're in a walled garden or we bloody 我们在一个有围墙的花园里，或者我们是血腥的
well hope we are but there's always a 很希望我们是，但总是有一个
snake and then it's even worse because 蛇，然后它更糟，因为
if there is a snake or exactly the sort 如果有蛇或者完全是这样的
of creatures who are going to do nothing 生物谁要做 什么
but go and interact with that state the 但去与该州的互动
second that we can manage it you know 第二， 我们可以管理它，你知道
it's it's definitely the case that if 这是肯定的情况下，如果
you want a human being to muck around 你想要一个人来捣乱
with something the best thing to do is 最好的事情是做什么
to tell them not ever to do it have 告诉他们永远不要这样做
anything to do with it which is of 任何与它这是
course something you know if you have 当然你知道的东西，如果你有
teenagers or even children or or if you 青少年甚至是儿童或者如果你
know anything about yourself or your 知道你自己或你的任何事情
partner so these stories are trying to 这些故事正在努力的合作伙伴
express what you might describe as an 表达你可能会形容为一个
unchanging transcendent reality you know 不变的超越现实， 你知道
it's it's something like what's common 这就是常见的东西
across all human experience across all 跨越所有人类所有体验
time and that's what young essentially 时间，这就是年轻人的本质
meant by an archetype and you could say 意味着一个原型， 你可以说
well you know we tend 那么你知道我们倾向于
think that what we see with our senses 想想我们的感官所见
is real and of course that's true but 是真实的，当然这是真的，但是
what we see with our senses is what's 我们用我们的感官看到的是什么
real that worked at the timeframe that 真正在那个时间段工作
we exist in right and so we see things 我们存在的权利，所以我们看到的东西
that we can touch and pick up we see 我们可以触摸并捡起我们看到的东西
tools essentially that are useful for 基本上是有用的工具
our moment-to-moment activities we don't 我们不这样做我们的时刻到时刻活动
see the structures of eternity 看到永恒的结构
especially not the abstract structures 尤其不是抽象结构
of eternity we have to imagine those 我们不得不想象那些永恒
with our imagination and that's partly 与我们的想象力，这是部分
what these stories are doing they're 这些故事在做什么
saying well there's there's forms of 说有这些形式
stability that transcend our capacity to 稳定性超越我们的能力，
observe which is hardly surprising we 观察这是不足为奇的，我们
know that if we're scientists right 知道如果我们是科学家是对的
because we're always abstracting out 因为我们一直在抽象
things that we can't immediately observe 我们无法立即观察的事物
but there are meta physical or moral 但有元物理或道德
realities or phenomenological realities 现实或现象学现实
that have the same nature that you can't 具有相同的性质，你不能
see them in your life by observing them 观察它们在你的生活中看到它们
with your senses but you can imagine 用你的感官， 但你可以想象
them with your imagination and though 他们与你的想象力，虽然
sometimes the things that you imagine 有时候是你想象的东西
with your imagination are more real than 与你的想象力相比，它更真实
the things that you see numbers are like 你看到的数字就是这样的
that for example and there's endless 例如，这是无止境的
examples of that and I would say well 这和我的例子会说得很好
this is also a good way of thinking 这也是一种很好的思考方式
about fiction because a good work of 关于小说，因为好的作品
fiction is more real than the stories 小说比故事更真实
from which it was derived otherwise it 否则它会从中得到它
has no staying power right it's 没有保留权利的权利
distilled reality even though in some 蒸馏的现实，即使在一些
sense it never happened it's like well 感觉它从来没有发生过，就像是一样
it depends on what you mean by happened 这取决于你发生的意思
you know it's a it's a pattern that 你知道这是一种模式
repeats in many many places with 在许多地方重复
variation you extract out the central 变化你从中央抽出
pattern it's it's the pattern purely 模式它纯粹是模式
never existed in any specific form but 从来没有以任何特定的形式存在
the fact that you pulled a pattern out 你拉出了一个模式的事实
from all those exemplars means that he's 从所有这些范例意味着他是
extracted something real and I think the 提取了一些真实的东西，我认为
reason that the the story of Adam and 原因是亚当和亚当的故事
Eve which we'll talk about in quite a 除夕，我们将在相当谈
bit of detail today has it has been 今天已经有一些细节
immune to being forgotten is because it 免于被遗忘是因为它
says things about the nature of the 说有关的性质的事情
human condition that are always true it 人类的状况总是如此
can give you another brief example you 可以给你另一个简要的例子
know like people have a lot of guilt you 知道人们对你有很多罪恶感
know there's a line of social psychology 知道有一种社会心理学
that claims that most people feel that 声称大多数人都认为这一点
they're better than other people 他们比其他人更好
like I just don't buy that that isn't 就像我不买那种不是
what I've seen in my life and maybe it's 我在生活中见过的，也许是
I'm bit biased because I'm a clinical 我有点偏见，因为我是临床医生
psychologist and I see 心理学家，我明白了
more people who are overtly suffering 越来越多的人谁是公然的痛苦
maybe then people do in general although 也许那时候人们一般都会这样做
I'm not so sure about that you know 我对 你所知道的 并不确定
because you don't have to scratch very 因为你不必非常划伤
far beneath the surface of most people's 远在大多数人的表面之下
lives before you find something truly 在你找到真正的东西之前活着
tragic and I don't mean the sort of 悲剧，我不是那种意思
tragedy that you whine about I mean you 悲剧，你对我的意思是抱怨 你
know your mother has Alzheimer's or your 知道你的母亲有阿尔茨海默氏症或你的
best friend committed suicide or you 最好的朋友自杀或你
have a close relative with cancer you 与癌症的近亲你
have a sick child or you know there's 有一个生病的孩子，或者你知道有
something wrong with you because almost 几乎是因为你的错
everyone has at least one really 每个人至少有一个真正的
terrible thing wrong with them and if 可怕的事情与他们错了，如果
you don't hey you will so you know so 你不会嘿，你会这样认识的
know that that so so that that tragic 知道这样那样的悲剧
sense of being is there with people all 所有人都有存在感
the time and and and it's also the case 时间和，而且也是这样
that not in my experience like I rarely 那并非像我很少遇到过的那样
meet someone who says hey you know I'm 遇到某人说嘿，你知道我是
doing everything I possibly can I'm a 尽我所能，我是一个
hell of a guy and I can't see how I 地狱的人，我看不出我是怎么了
could possibly improve you know you meet 可能会提高你知道你遇到
you meet someone like that you think 你遇到了你认为的人
their narcissistic write would end 他们的自恋写作会结束
you're right and but but most people 你是对的，但只有大多数人
don't feel that way they feel like they 不要觉得他们觉得他们是这样
could do a hell of a lot better than 可以做得比地狱好很多
they are and they're quite acutely aware 他们是，他们非常敏锐地意识到
of their faults and they don't feel that 他们的缺点，他们不觉得
they're what they should be and you see 他们是他们应该和你看到的
what happens in the story of Adam and 亚当与亚当的故事会发生什么？
Eve as well as that when people become 夏娃以及当人们成为时
self conscious at least that's how it 至少自我意识就是这样
looks to me they get thrown out of 在我看来 ，他们得到抛出的
paradise and then they're in history and 天堂，然后他们在历史和
history is a place where there's pain in 历史是一个痛苦的地方
childbirth and where you're dominated by 分娩和你主宰的地方
your mate and where you have to toil 你的伴侣和你必须努力的地方
like mad like no other animal because 像疯了一样没有其他动物，因为
you're aware of the future you have to 你知道你必须对未来 的
work and sacrifice the joys of the 工作和牺牲的乐趣
present for the future constantly and 不断的为未来而存在
you know you're going to die and you 你知道你会和你一起死去
have all that weight on you and to me 对你和我有所有的重量
again that's just how can anything be 再次，这就是如何可以
more true than that that's just as far 比那个更加真实
as I can tell that's just how it is 因为我可以说这只是它是如何
for unless you're naive beyond 因为除非你天真超越
comprehension there's something about 理解有一些关于
your life that that that is echoed in in 你的生活，这是相呼应的
that representation and why it is that I 那种表现和为什么是我
mean we're such strange creatures 意思是我们是这样奇怪的生物
because we don't seem to really fit into 因为我们似乎没有真正融入
being in some sense and that's also 在某种意义上，这也是
what's expressed in the notion of the 在什么样的概念所表达的
fall we the existentialist said well 我们这位存在主义者说得很好
people feel like they have a debt that 人们觉得他们有债务
they have to pay off to existence for 他们必须还清存在了
the for the crime of their for the crime 为了他们的犯罪行为
of the 的
being something like that and maybe it's 就像那样，也许是这样
because we are acutely aware that we 因为我们敏锐地意识到我们
have to offer something of value to the 必须提供有价值的东西
people around us so that they can 我们身边的人们可以这样做
tolerate us you know well we're going 容忍我们你知道我们正在走
about our business but it seems deeper 关于我们的业务，但似乎更深入
than that it's that human beings seem to 比那是人类似乎
exist in a post cataclysmic world and 存在于灾难后的世界中
that's exactly also what's represented 这也正是代表的
in Genesis it's very interesting because 在创世纪中它非常有趣，因为
you know there's in the out of an EVE 你知道有一个EVE
story there's two there's two 故事里有两个有两个
catastrophes essentially there's the 灾难基本上是存在的
catastrophe that occurs went out of an 灾难发生了
EVE wake up which we'll talk about in EVE唤醒我们将在谈
detail and become self conscious and 细节并成为自我意识和
know that they're naked that and their 知道他们是裸体的，他们的
eyes are open right so that that's the 眼睛是开放的，这样就是了
terminology that's used and to have your 所使用的术语和你的
eyes open means to have an an increment 睁开眼睛意味着有一个增量
in consciousness essentially because 在意识本质上是因为
eyes are associated with consciousness 眼睛与意识有关
for human beings because we're intensely 对于人类而言，因为我们非常激烈
visual animals and so the metaphor of 视觉动物等的隐喻
having your eyes open means it's the 睁开你的眼睛意味着它是
same as the metaphor of coming to 与来到的隐喻相同
consciousness and as soon as Adam and 意识，并尽快亚当和
Eve come to consciousness they realize 伊娃意识到他们意识到
they're naked and you know the classic 他们赤身裸体，你知道经典之作
interpretation of that is that it has 那解释是，它具有
something to do with sexual sin and I 与性罪和我有关
don't I don't believe that I don't 我不相信我没有
believe that that's what it means 相信这就是它的意思
although they're elements about that 尽管他们是这方面的元素
that are relevant it's more that to 这是相关的更多的是
realize that you're naked it's like 意识到你是裸体的，就像
you're you know if you dream that you're 如果你梦见自己是你，你就会知道
naked and on a stage in front of people 裸体和在 人前的 舞台上
that's not a sexual dream man unless 那不是一个性梦想的人，除非
you're some kind of strange 你有点奇怪
exhibitionist right it's if you want to 如果你愿意的话，展示者就是对的
cover yourself up and get the hell off 掩盖自己，让自己失控
that stage as fast as possible and so to 那个阶段尽可能快，等等
be naked in front of a crowd is to have 在人群面前裸体是有的
everyone it's to have the judgement of 每个人都需要做出判断
the social world focused on your 社交世界专注于你的
self-evident inadequacies and that makes 不言而喻的不足之处，这使得
people self-conscious and that's that's 人们自觉，就是这样
a real human state it's associated with 它与相关的一个真正的人的状态
neuroticism in the big five trade model 五大贸易模式中的神经质
but people don't like that at all they 但是人们根本不喜欢那种感觉
don't like having their fragility and 不喜欢有脆弱和脆弱
vulnerability exposed to the group it's 暴露于该组的漏洞
one of the two major fears of people 人们的两大恐惧之一
because one is social humiliation and 因为一个是社会屈辱和
the other is something like mortality 另一种是像死亡
and death and like your typical 和死亡，就像你的典型
agoraphobic 广场恐惧症
for example gets to have both those 例如获得这两个
fears at the same time because she 因为她同时害怕
usually as she tends to believe she's 通常是因为她倾向于相信她
going to have a very spectacular and 将有一个非常壮观的
exhibitionistic heart attack in a 展览中的心脏病发作
public place and make a terrible fool of 公共场所，并成为一个可怕的傻瓜
herself while she's dying so and then 她自己虽然时不时地死去
that's a good example of the two 这是两个很好的例子
archetypal fears that characterize 典型的恐惧特征
characterized human beings so so to me 特点是人类对我如此
and I said that I tried to approach 我说我试图接近
these stories as if I didn't know what 这些故事好像我不知道是什么
they were about because that seemed 他们是关于因为这似乎
right to me because their mysteries 因为他们的奥秘对我来说
their everything about them is 他们关于他们的一切是
mysterious and why we have them is 神秘的，为什么我们有他们是
mysterious and what the hell you're all 神秘和你到底是什么
doing here is mysterious you know 在这里做你是知道的
listening to this lecture and so and 听这个讲座等等
reading Hume because you and Carl Jung 因为你和卡尔荣格读休谟
was very very helpful in this because he 在这方面非常有帮助，因为他
he faced these stories with the 他面对这些故事
beginner's mind and presumed there was 初学者的头脑和推测有
something to him that he didn't 对他来说他没有
understand given that they were at the 明白他们在那里
very bloody bottom of our civilization 我们的文明非常血腥的底部
you know which is historically perfectly 你知道历史上是完美的
clear and that they came out of the 清楚并且他们出来了
midst of time and he wasn't satisfied 中间时间，他并不满意
with the idea that a Freudian idea that 的想法，弗洛伊德想法，
God was just the father or the Marxist 上帝只是父亲或马克思主义者
idea that religion was the opiate of the 认为宗教是鸦片的想法
masses it's like if religion was the 大众就好像宗教是这样的
opiate of the masses then communism was 当时的共产主义是 大众的鸦片
the methamphetamine of the masses I can 我可以的群众的甲基苯丙胺
tell you that so 告诉你如此
so you know you've been betrayed by 所以你知道你被背叛了
someone and so you fall into that 有人，所以你陷入了这一点
underworld of doubt about everything and 对所有事情都怀疑的黑社会
it's a serious place to be in that 这是一个认真的地方
underworld a because not only do you not 黑社会，因为你不是
know where you came from or who you are 知道你来自哪里或你是谁
where you're going that's bad enough 你去哪里就够糟糕了
so that's the underworld itself but 所以这就是黑社会本身
there's a subdivision of the underworld 有 黑道 的细分
like the worst suburb which is I think 就像我认为的最差的郊区一样
what hell is essentially from the 这究竟是从哪里来的
metaphysical perspective because you 形而上学的视角， 因为你
know if someone really cuts you off at 知道是否有人真的让你失望
the knees especially if they do it in a 膝盖特别是如果他们在a
malevolent way and and if you're going 恶意的方式，如果你要去
to be betrayed and you really want to be 被出卖，你真的想成为
betrayed properly you want to be 出卖得当，你想成为
betrayed by someone who's really out to 被真正出门 的人出卖
hurt you you know they just weren't 伤害你， 你知道他们不是
being stupid they were like after you 愚蠢的他们就像你一样
for whatever reason and then that's also 无论出于何种原因，那也是如此
you plunged into that underworld space 你陷入了黑社会的空间
and that's also when you start to nurse 这也是你开始护士的时候
feelings of resentment and aggrievement 怨恨和怨恨的感觉
and murder and homicide and even worse 谋杀和杀人甚至更糟
you know because if people are betrayed 你知道，因为如果人们被背叛
enough they start they start to obsess 足够他们开始他们开始迷恋
about the utility of being itself and 关于 自己和自己 的效用
perhaps go to places that no one would 也许去的地方，没有人会
ever want to go if they were in the 如果他们在世界上一直想去
right mind and to and to develop a nurse 正确的思想， 并且培养一名护士
fantasies of the ultimate revenge and 对最终报复和幻想的幻想
that's a horrible place to be and that's 那是一个可怕的地方，那就是
hell as far as I can tell and that's why 地狱据 我可以告诉，这就是为什么
hell has always been a suburb of the 地狱一直是郊区的
underworld because if if you get plunged 黑社会，因为如果你暴跌
into a situation that you don't 变成你没有的情况
understand and things are not good for 理解和事情不好
you anymore it's one step from being 你已经离现实只有一步之遥了
completely confused it's only one step 完全混淆它只是一个步骤
from being completely confused to being 从完全混淆到存在
completely outraged and resentful and 完全愤怒和愤and
then it's only one step from there to 那么它只有一步从那里
really looking for revenge and that can 真的在寻找复仇，那可以
take you places that well that that 带你去那个地方
merely to imagine properly can be 只是想象得很恰当就可以
traumatic and I've seen that happen with 创伤，我已经看到这发生
people many times and I think that 人们很多次，我认为
anybody who uses their imagination on 任何使用他们的想象力的人
themselves can see how that happens 他们自己可以看到如何发生
because I don't imagine there's a single 因为我不认为有一个单一的
person in the room that hasn't nursed 没有入住的房间里的人
fairly intense fantasies of revenge at 相当激烈的复仇幻想
least at one point in their life and 至少在他们的生活中有一点
usually you know for what appear to be 通常你知道似乎是什么
good reasons it's no picnic to get 很好的理由，它不是得到的野餐
betrayed that's for sure that can shake 背叛这是肯定的，可以动摇
your faith in being but if it shakes it 你的信仰存在，但如果它震动它
so badly that you turn against being 如此糟糕，以至于你反对存在
itself that's certainly no solution 本身这当然没有解决办法
that's for sure all it does is make 这当然是所有它做的
everything that's bad even worse 一切糟糕甚至更糟
so okay now so and God said let there be 所以现在好了，上帝说让那里有
light and there was light and God saw 有光明，神看见了
that the light was good and God 光是好的，上帝
separated the light from the darkness 将光线从黑暗中分离出来
and so that's that's another that's 所以这是另外一个这
another fundamental separation right 另一个基本分离权
light and darkness those are those are 明与暗的那些是那些被
in some sense the two fundamental two of 在某种意义上说是两个基本的两个
the fundamental elements of our 的基本要素我们
conscious being because of course when 当然是因为当然
it's light we're awake and conscious 这是我们清醒和自觉的光
because we're diurnal animals and when 因为我们是昼夜动物，什么时候
it's night well then we're asleep and so 晚上好，然后我们睡着了等等
our existence is bounded by light and 我们的存在是由光界和
darkness we're up and alert when it's 当我们黑暗时， 我们就会醒来并警觉
light and that's partly because we're 光，这部分是因为我们
highly visual animals right unlike most 不同于大多数的高度视觉化的动物
animals because most animals you smell 动物，因为你闻到大多数动物
we we use vision we're very strange that 我们使用视觉，我们很奇怪
way and vision is associated with 方式和愿景是相关联的
enlightenment and illumination and with 启蒙与照明与
the breaking of the dawn with the coming 随着未来的破晓
of the new day and all of that so and so 新的一天，所有的那谁谁的
for light to be created is associated in 要创建的光线与之相关联
some sense with the emergence of 一些意义上的出现
conscious being and so that's another 有意识的存在，所以这是另一回事
echo of that notion and they're the the 呼应这一概念的，他们是在对
particular phrasing of the of the story 故事的特别措辞
also is important because it's again 也是重要的，因为它再次
that God fed right so that's the use of 上帝喂养的权利，所以这是使用
that word and that's the active element 这个词，这是活跃的因素
of the structure that gives rise to the 这产生了 结构
gives order to chaos it's something like 给秩序混乱它就像
that so it's it's like the spirit of the 这就像它的精神一样
structure manifests itself and produces 结构体现自己并产生
the fundamental divisions of experience 经验的基本划分
that's what's being presented here and 这就是这里呈现的内容
God separated the light from the 上帝把光从光中分离出来
darkness he called the light day and the 他把黑暗称为光明日
darkness he called night and again again 黑夜，他再次打电话给黑夜
the fact that things are named is also 事物命名的事实也是
very important so you see this later 非常重要， 所以你稍后会看到
with Adam because God gives Adam the job 与亚当，因为上帝给亚当的工作
of naming all the animals and it's sort 命名所有的动物，它是排序
of like the animals don't actually exist 像动物一样不存在
in some sense till they're named and 从某种意义上说，直到他们命名，
that's that's another indication of the 这是这的另一个迹象
authors of the Bible's attempt to come 圣经试图来的人
to terms with the fact that our 与我们的事实相关
cognitive faculties and our ability to 认知能力和我们的能力
speak have something to do with the way 说话与方式有关
that we task chaotic potential into 我们任务乱势成
actuality right because we can't we 现实的权利，因为我们不能
can't really get a grip on something 不能真正掌握某些东西
before we have a name for it which is 之前我们有一个名字 是
like for example you all have names and 例如像你们都有名字和
everything that you encounter has to 你遇到的一切都必须
have a name because before it has a name 有一个名字，因为它有一个名字
it's just kind of 这只是一种
part of the blurry background in 部分模糊背景
something like that and you could say it 类似的东西，你可以说
exists before it has a name but and 存在之前它有一个名字，但和
that's true but it's also true that it 这是真的，但它也确实是
doesn't exist before it has a name 在它有名字之前不存在
because as soon as you give something a 因为只要你给一件事
name its nature changes and you've 命名其性质的变化，你已经
transformed it into something that's not 把它改造成的东西，这不是
so much mere potential anymore but it's 不仅仅是潜力，而是它
at least on its way to being actuality 至少在实际上是如此
it's on its way to being a tool and so 它的道路上是一个工具等等
the act of naming is repeated 重复命名行为
continually in the first chapters of the 不断在第一章的章节
Bible and the reason for that is this 圣经和原因是这样的
continued emphasis on the importance of 继续强调重要性
consciousness and conscious articulation 意识和有意识的表达
and speech you know when speech is 并在讲话时发言
really something that does separate us 真的让我们分开的东西
in an important way from animals you 在一个重要的方式来自动物你
know like we haven't got very far 知道我们还没有很远
teaching animals how to speak the best 教动物如何说最好的
we've managed so far as some parrots 我们已经管理了一些鹦鹉
right there's gray African parrot there 那里有灰色的非洲鹦鹉
is one of them that got up to about a 是其中的一个起起落落
four-year-old level and that's 四岁的水平，这是
mind-boggling because like how big is 令人难以置信， 因为它有多大
the brain of a parrot it's like that big 鹦鹉的大脑就像那样大
and that bloody thing could talk and so 那血腥的事情可以说话等等
that shows you how much we know about 那会告诉你我们知道多少
brains but I know they're small and all 大脑， 但我知道他们小而全
that but and we tried teaching 但是，我们尝试教学
chimpanzees to talk and they could kind 黑猩猩说话，他们可以善待
of get somewhere with sign language 用手语进入某个地方
especially if you started when they were 特别是如果你开始的时候
young but they don't have the capacity 年轻但他们没有能力
for language like we do and they were 对于像我们这样和他们的语言来说
never able to really pass it on to the 从来没有能够真正把它传递到
to the next generation which is 到下一代这是
obviously a critical element of really 显然是真正的关键因素
having that ability so human beings 有这样的能力，人类
we've used our linguistic capacity to 我们已经使用我们的语言能力
parse up the world in a new way and to 以新的方式分析世界， 并以
conceptualize it in a new way and you 以一种新的方式和你来概念化它
know you can say that we're just like 知道你可以说我们就是这样
ants on this little trivial planet out 蚂蚁在这个微不足道的星球上
on the edge of one of a hundred million 上亿的一个边缘
galaxies and that what's happening here 星系和那里发生了什么
has no cosmic significance but that's an 没有宇宙意义，但这是一个
arbitrary that's an arbitrary 任意这是一个任意的
proposition you know I mean we're very 你知道的命题我的意思是我们非常
complicated things and whatever's going 复杂的事情和其他事情
on on this planet has to do with 在这个星球上必须要做的
conscious reality and the 有意识的现实与现实
transformations of consciousness for all 为所有人转变意识
we know might be the most important 我们知道可能是最重要的
things that happen everywhere there's no 事情到处都是，没有
reason to consider consciousness a 理性考虑意识a
trivial phenomena I mean it's taken 我的意思是它采取了微不足道的现象
three and a half billion years for you 三十五亿年的时间给你
to develop the brain that you've 开发你的大脑
developed and you and human beings are 发展和你和人类是
amazing creatures I mean 我的意思是惊人的生物
just a casual walk through YouTube and 只是漫步在YouTube和YouTube上
all those crazy kids that climb cranes 所有那些爬起重机的疯狂的孩子
and do that what's that that ya parkour 做那个，那是你的跑酷
man that stuff's unbelievable you know I 那个东西不可思议，你知道我
mean human beings are crazy crazy 意味着人类疯狂疯狂
animals there's almost nothing we can't 动物几乎没有什么我们不能
do and I'm very loath to assume that the 做，我非常不愿意假设
transformations of consciousness that 意识的转变是
are described in the early in the early 在早期在早期 被描述
stories in in the biblical accounts are 故事在圣经帐户是
somehow cosmically trivial it doesn't 不知何故，这在宇宙上是微不足道的
strike me that way and it's certainly 以这种方式打我，当然
not self-evident and even if they are 不是不言而喻，即使它们是
cosmically trivial whatever that means 无论如何，这在宇宙上是微不足道的
the rocks don't care what you think well 岩石不关心你的想法
who cares what the rocks think first 谁在乎岩石首先想到的是什么
they don't think so I don't see why 他们不这么认为，我不明白为什么
that's exactly relevant but even if even 这是完全相关的，但即使是甚至
if it's all the same to the cosmos which 如果它和宇宙完全一样的话
is something that I doubt it's certainly 是我怀疑它是肯定的
not just all the same to you you know 不只是你所知道的你都一样
because your consciousness has a quality 因为你的意识有一个品质
and it matters the Heidegger for example 例如海德格尔就很重要
who's a philosopher who who's writing 谁是谁写的哲学家
sort of influenced me post-talk because 有点影响了我的后期谈话，因为
i recreated some of the things that he 我重新创造了他的一些东西
had talked about in the 30s before I 在我之前的30年代曾经谈过
knew much about him but one of the 对他非常了解， 但其中一位
things that Heidegger said was that the 海德格尔说过的事情是
fundamental element of human being of 人类的基本元素
human phenomenology was care he said 他说，人类现象学很关心
that that's the basic essence of your 这就是你的基本精髓
being is that you care about things you 幸福是你关心的事情你
know and that's necessary that either 知道这就是必要的，要么
negatively or positively right you to 消极或积极的权利你
not care about something or to hate it 不在乎某件事或讨厌它
is still to be involved in care and so 仍然需要参与护理等
even if the cosmos itself is is neutral 即使宇宙本身是中性的
with regards to our existence we're not 关于我们的存在，我们不是
and we're the only things that we know 我们是唯一知道的事情
of that are conscious and so while we 那是有意识的，所以当我们
might as well go with that and there's 还不如与去和有
no reason see I can't help but think 没理由见我不禁想
that the constant attempts by people to 人们不断的尝试
trivialize the nature of their own 贬低自己的本质
consciousness has a dark side I'm a 意识有一个黑暗的一面，我是一个
psychoanalyst and so I always think that 心理医生，所以我一直认为，
way it's like well first of all if 这种方式首先是如此
you're if you as a being don't matter 你是如果你作为一个存在并不重要的人
then you don't have to do anything it's 那么你不必做任何事情
a great justification for total lack of 总缺乏一个伟大的理由
responsibility and that that really 责任和那真的
twigs something for me because you know 为我树枝一些东西，因为你知道
people who are bent let's say or 谁是弯曲的人，让我们说什么或
vengeful or angry are always looking for 报复或愤怒总是在寻找
a reason why they don't have to be 他们不必这样做的原因
responsible for anything 负责任何事情
it's a lot easier and so the notion that 这很容易，所以这个概念
consciousness is trivial immediately 意识很小
allows you to wander down that path and 可以让你漫步在那条路上
so I'm skeptical of those claims and I 所以我对这些说法和我持怀疑态度
also think that there's a deep hatred of 也认为这是一种深刻的仇恨
humanity that underlies those claims as 作为这些主张的基础的人性
well and I read my youtube comments 好吧，我读了我的YouTube的评论
sometimes you know and I've always been 有时你知道，我一直都是
I've always been 我一直都是
annoyed that you know because I've heard 惹恼你知道，因为我听说过
like sort of radical clueless 像某种激进无知的人
environmentalists say things like planet 环保主义者说像地球一样
would be better off without people on it 没有人会更好
which is something that like you just 这是喜欢你只是一些
cannot say that that if you say that and 不能说， 如果你这样说和
listen to yourself 听你自己
you should like go to a monastery for 你应该去修道院
like three years and never say a word 像三年，从不说一句话
and have a shower every 10 minutes until 并每10分钟有一次淋浴直到
you've learned your lesson properly you 你已经正确地吸取了你的教训
know you can't adhere a more genocide 知道你不能坚持更多的种族灭绝
'el phrase than that you know and of '这个短语比你所知道的还要多
course you always do it in a display of 当然，你总是在显示屏上进行
your care for the world it's like well 你对这个世界的关心就好
if we just didn't have any people it's 如果我们没有任何人的话
like well we'll just line them all up 好吧，我们将把他们全部排成一行
and shoot them with machine guns no it's 用机关枪射击他们 不
really sickening it's appalling and 真是令人作呕这是令人震惊和
there's a hatred for humanity that's at 对于人类来说，这是一种仇恨
the bottom of it and I mean you can kind 它的底部，我的意思是你可以善良
of understand why because we're messy 理解为什么因为我们很混乱
and you know we don't clean up after 你知道我们之后不清理
ourselves and you know we're like raping 我们自己， 你知道我们就像强奸
the rain forests and that sort of thing 雨林和那种东西
but I do have some sympathy for people 但我有一些同情的人
because you know we're we're hell on 因为你知道我们是我们的
mother nature but she certainly returns 母亲的性质，但她肯定会回来
the favor so and that's a good thing to 这样的好处，这是一件好事
remember you know a lot of what we're 记住你知道我们很多
doing is just bloody well trying to 这样做只是血腥的尝试
exist with a relative minimum of pain 存在相对最小的疼痛
and we're doing our best to get you know 我们正在尽我们所能，让你知道
to get as good at doing that as fast as 让尽可能擅长 做的是尽可能快地
we can and that's not an easy thing 我们可以，那不是一件容易的事情
there are lots of us and like life is 有很多我们和生活一样
bloody complicated and the other thing 血腥的复杂和其他的事情
that happens too is again if you scratch 如果你从头开始 ，那也会发生
just beneath the surface of people and 就在人和人的表面之下
this is something that's always you know 这是你永远都知道的事情
to me is being a kind of miracle is if 对我来说是一种奇迹，如果
you talk to someone they're out doing 你跟他们在外面的人谈话
their job and maybe they're doing a good 他们的工作，也许他们做得很好
job at it like some emergency room nurse 就像一些急诊室的护士一样工作
you know it's God there's a job for you 你知道这是上帝，你有一份工作
or maybe they work in palliative care 或者也许他们在姑息治疗中工作
you know and you talk to them and you 你知道，你和他们以及你 说话
find out they've got like four as I said 发现他们已经像我说的那样有四个了
before serious problems in their family 他们的家庭出现严重问题之前
and maybe they're diabetic to boot and 也许他们是糖尿病人开机和
yet they haul themselves out of bed in 然而他们把自己从床上 拖出来
the morning and go take care of dying 早上去照顾死亡
people it's like good god people deserve 人就像上帝的人应得的那样
a bit of respect for struggling forward 对于奋斗的前锋有点尊重
and not always trying to make the planet 并不总是试图制造这个星球
a worse play 一场糟糕的比赛
when they're beset on all sides 当他们困扰在四面八方时
constantly by you know unending series 不断由你知道无休止的系列
of tragedy you think we could have a 悲剧你认为我们可以有一个
little bit of sympathy for ourselves as 同情自己的点点
a consequence of that it's like we're 那后果就好像我们是
not all like rapacious greedy monsters 并不都像贪婪贪婪的怪物
who are bent on just devouring 谁一心只想吞食
everything in our path you know it's a 我们的道路上的一切，你知道它是一个
little bit more complicated than that 比这更复杂一点
so all right anyway so so well so let's 所以无论如何这么好，所以让我们
go to the next part of this here mmm-hmm 去这个位置MMM-HMM 的下一部分
all right so God said let there be an 好吧，所以上帝说让那里有一个
expanse in the midst of the waters and 在水域和水域之间扩张
let it separate the waters from the 让它的水从分离
waters and God made the expanse and 水和神造就了广阔的天地
separated the waters that were under the 分离，正在接受该水域
expanse from the waters that were above 从上面的水域开阔
the expanse and it was so and God called 广阔的，这是神的呼召
the expanse heaven and there was evening 傍晚时分，天堂和广阔的天空
and there was morning the second day 第二天早上就有了
well to understand that because what how 很好理解，因为如何
did that doesn't make any sense at all 这样做 没有任何意义了
really so I think I told you a little 真的让我觉得，我告诉你一个小
bit about this before so the the the 在这之前，有关于此的一点点
world that's being created in this 这是一个在这个被创造的世界
particular account is a phenomenological 特定的帐户是一种现象学
world there's a disc of land because if 世界上有一块土地，因为如果
you go out in a field and look around 你在外地出去 看看
you're on a disk of labs that's pretty 你在一个非常漂亮 的实验室磁盘上
obvious and then there's a dome on top 很明显，然后顶部有一个圆顶
of it it's more or less held up by the 它或多或少地受到了
mountains and rain comes down so there's 山脉和雨水降临， 所以有
water above the dome because where else 在圆顶之上的水，因为在那里
would the rain come from and underneath 雨会来自内外
the ground there's fresh water you can 地面有淡水可以
drill down and find out and then around 深入挖掘并找出并围绕
out there's salt water and so that's the 那里有盐水，所以这是
world and it's kind of an empirical 世界，这是一种经验
world because if you're a child and you 世界因为如果你是一个孩子而你
just go out in the field and you look at 只是在外地出去，你看看
the world that's sort of what it would 这个世界就是这样
be like and so that's the world that's 像等就是这样的世界
being created and so one of the things 被创造出来的东西之一
that is worth thinking about this is 值得关注的是这个
something Carl Jung was very interested Carl Jung对此非常感兴趣
in is that these old descriptions are 在于这些旧的描述是
half geographical and half empirical so 半地理半经验如此
sort of based on observation and half 基于观察和一半的排序
psychological 心理
so one of the things young was 所以年轻的一件事 是
interested in for example was astrology 例如感兴趣的是占星术
but mostly for a psychological reason 但主要是出于心理原因
because you know they're obviously there 因为你知道他们显然在那里
are stars up on the dome and then when 是圆顶上的星星，然后是星星
you look at the stars you can imagine 你看看你能想象的星星
the shapes of the stars and that helps 星星的形状和帮助
you orient yourself because as soon as 你只要确定自己的方位，因为
you can see shapes and the stars then 你可以看到形状和星星
you can recognize the constellations and 你可以识别星座和
you can orient yourself at night but 你可以在晚上定位自己， 但是
then the constellations become God's say 那么星座就成了神的话语
and the gods turn into a drama and so 众神变成戏剧等等
and the drama comes from 和戏剧来自
then it's the projection of imagination 那就是想象力的投射
and so when Young was analyzing Young在分析时也是如此
astrology he was in that analyzing 占星术，他在分析
psychology because he saw the 因为他看到了心理学
astrological narrative as the projection 占星术叙述如投影
of the human imagination onto the cosmos 人类对宇宙的想象力
and so when he was analyzing astrology 所以当他分析占星术时
who was analyzing psychology and that 谁在分析心理学和那个
the same thing is the case with these 这些情况也是如此
stories is that the world they they 故事是他们的世界
describe is only it's not the natural 描述只是它不是自然的
world like a scientist would describe it 像科学家这样的世界会描述它
because these people weren't scientists 因为这些人不是科学家
they didn't have the technology in the 他们没有在技术
tool it was it was the way they were for 工具是这是他们的方式
them it was the world for us it's the 他们对我们来说就是这个世界
way they saw the world and so we're 他们看到这个世界的方式，所以我们
looking at the way they saw the world 看着他们看到这个世界的方式
and a lot of that psychology and we 还有很多这种心理和我们
share that psychology to a large degree 在很大程度上分享那个心理学
with those people so in this is 与这些人在这是如此
psychology but it's interesting to know 心理学， 但知道这很有趣
what the geographical substrate is so 什么是地理基础是如此
that you can kind understand the stories 你可以理解这些故事
and I like this picture because that's 我喜欢这张照片，因为那样
it's great from a psychological 从心理上来说这很好
perspective it's a very famous picture 透视这是一个非常有名的图片
you know so basically what you have here 你基本知道你在这里有什么
is the world as we know it and there's 就像我们所知道的那样，那里是世界
the dome with the Sun and the moon on it 有太阳和月亮的圆顶
and the stars and then if you look 和星星，然后如果你看
outside what you know well then you're 在你知道的外面，然后你是
out into this cosmic space right and 进入这个宇宙空间的权利和权利
that's those are like the wheels of the 这就是那些像的车轮
planets and the music of the spheres and 行星和球体的音乐
that's the ever-present Explorer who's 那是永远存在的资源管理器
gone beyond the domain that he can 超越了他所能做的领域
understand and is peering out into the 理解和被窥视出到
unknown as such and it's a psychological 这是未知的，这是一种心理
picture it's like because you do know 图片就像是因为你知道
some things and then outside of that 有些东西，然后外面的那
there are things you don't know and when 有些东西你不知道什么时候发生
you're feeling brave you put a foot or 你感到很勇敢，你放了脚或
two out where you don't understand like 两个你不明白的地方
because there's frontier everywhere 因为到处都有边界
right and if you're if you're feeling 对，如果你是如果你感觉
heroic and you want to do something for 英雄，你想为此做点什么
the world and you want to expand what 世界，你想扩大什么
you understand you poke your head 你明白你戳了你的头
through what you know and you take a 通过你所知道的和你所承担的
look at the that's the at whatever 看看那是什么
structure is out there and you know he's 结构在那里，你知道他是
pretty smart because most of them is 非常聪明，因为他们大部分都是
still where it's safe and I would say 仍然在哪里是安全的，我会说
that's a good that's a good thing 这是一件好事，这是一件好事
because if you jump right out there well 因为如果你跳得很好
then maybe you fall off the edge of the 那么也许你脱落的边缘
earth and I wouldn't precisely recommend 地球，我不会精确推荐
that especially if you do it 特别是如果你这样做
accidentally and to me this is a 不小心对我来说这是一个
recreation of the of the Taoist yin-yang 娱乐道教阴阳
symbol you know with the with the white 你知道与白色的符号
Paisley here and that's what 佩斯利在这里，那就是这个
no in the dark paisley serpents really 没有在黑暗的佩斯利蛇真的
there and the right place to be is right 那里和正确的地方是正确的
on the line between them because you're 在他们之间的线上，因为你是
sort of got one foot where you 有点你的脚在哪里
understand that gives you security and 明白，给你的安全和
then you know but it's kind of dull 那么你知道，但它有点沉闷
because hey you know everything that's 因为你知道这一切
going on there and that is what people 那儿的情况，这是什么人
are like they don't want just security 就像他们不想要安全一样
Dostoyevsky said that in notes from the 陀思妥耶夫斯基说，在从笔记
underground a great great book and you 地下一本伟大的书和你
know he said I love this it was his 知道他说我喜欢这是他的
early critic criticism of the notion of 早期评论家批评的概念
a political utopia he said look if you 一个政治乌托邦， 他说如果你看
gave people everything they wanted they 给了人们他们想要的一切
had nothing to eat but take and nothing 没有什么可吃的，但没吃东西
to do but sit in warm pools and busy 要做的只是坐在温暖的泳池里而忙碌
themselves with the continuation of the 自己与延续
species that was his his lives that the 这是他的生命中的物种
first thing they would do well maybe 他们可能会最终做好第一件事
after the first week was like gold kind 第一周之后就像黄金一样
of half insane and smash everything up 一半疯了，粉碎了一切
just so that something that they didn't 只是为了那些他们没有的东西
expect would happen so that they'd have 期望会发生，以便他们有
something interesting to do and it's so 有趣的事情是这样的
right because you know that the utopian 对，因为你知道这个乌托邦
notion that if you just had all the 如果你只是拥有了所有的东西 ，那么这个概念就可以了
material stuff you wanted that you'd 你想要的材料
you'd be well what would you be what 你会很好，你会是什么
what would you do would you just sit in 你会怎么做，你会坐在里面
the couch and watch TV I mean you did 沙发和看电视我的意思是你做的
you'd be I don't know why you'd be 你会是我不知道你为什么会
cutting yourself just for entertainment 削减自己只是为了娱乐
in no time slot you know and that's the 在任何时候你都知道，那就是
sort of thing that people do and so 人们所做的一些事情等等
we're not adapted for security in Utopia 我们不适应乌托邦的安全
were adapted for a certain amount of 被改编为一定量的
security because you know we are 因为你知道我们是安全的
vulnerable but mostly we want to have 脆弱但主要是我们想 有
one foot out where we don't know what 一英尺我们不知道什么
the hell is going on because that's 地狱正在继续，因为这样
where your alert and alive and tense and 这里提醒和活着，紧张，
with it and and you know I think I 与它和你知道我认为我
believe this and I believe it actually 相信这一点， 我确实相信它
has something to do with the hemispheric 与半球有关
structure of your of your of the 你的结构你
physiology of your brain is it because 你的大脑的生理机能是因为
the right hemisphere looks roughly 右半球看起来粗糙
adapted to what you don't know and the 适应你不知道的和
left hemisphere and this is a very this 左半球，这是一个极本
is an oversimplification but a useful 是过分简单化，但是有用的
one is adapted to the world that you do 一个适应你所做的世界
know and the right place for you to be 知道和适合你的地方
is halfway between them because then you 他们之间的一半是因为你
can tell that that's what's so cool and 可以说这就是那么酷，而且
this tells you that this is actually 这告诉你，这实际上是
reality that's manifesting itself to you 现实是向你显现的
you know that sense of active engagement 你知道积极参与的感觉
you have in the world when things are 当事情发生时你在世界上
working well for you you know where 为你工作，你知道在哪里
you're where you should be at the right 你是你应该在哪里的权利
time 时间
you're alert and on top of things and 你能警觉和对事物的顶部 和
engaged and you don't have much of a 从事和你没有太多的
sense of time and the sense of the 时间感和意识
tragedy of life sort of recedes and 生活的悲剧消退了
that's when your that's when you've got 那就是当你拥有的时候
one foot when it's where it's secure in 当它的一只脚在那里它是安全的
one foot out in the unknown and your 一脚在未知和你的脚下
brain signals to you that you're in the 大脑向你发出信号，表示你处于睡眠状态
right place by making what you're doing 通过做你正在做的事情来正确的地方
meaningful and that sense of meaning is 有意义的，这种意义是
actually a neuro physiological signal 实际上是一种神经生理信号
that you've got the forces of the cosmos 你已经得到了宇宙的力量
properly balanced in your being at that 在，在你被正确平衡
moment and that's why it feels so good 时刻，这就是为什么它感觉很好
and then well what else could it 然后好还能是什么
possibly be I mean you know our brain is 可能是我的意思是你知道我们的大脑是
capable of looking beyond our vision 能够超越我们的视野
that's what it's for and that sense of 这就是它的意义和感觉
engagement there's no reason to assume 没有理由承担
that that's anything but a real signal 那这是什么，但一个真正的信号
and you can reduce it you could say well 你可以减少它，你可以说得很好
the problem with being where you know 成为你知道的地方的问题
only is that you don't know everything 只是你不知道一切
and that's going to be a problem in the 而这将是在一个问题
future and the problem with being where 未来和在哪里的问题
you know nothing is that's just too much 你知道什么都不是太多
man like you know you go into panic mode 像你这样的人知道你进入恐慌模式
and because anything can happen there 因为任何事情都可能发生在那里
and you can't handle it so you've got to 你不能处理它，所以你必须
mediate between those two things you 介于这两件事之间
want to be secure enough so that your 想要足够安全，以便你的
physiology isn't revving out of control 生理学不会失去控制
and you want to be out there in the 你想要在那里
unknown enough so that you keep updating 未知足以使你不断更新
yourself constantly constantly 自己不断地不断
constantly and that's that's the place 不断地，这就是这个地方
where information flow is maximized and 信息流量最大化的地方
you know that because that's where you 你知道那是因为你在哪里
are when you're having a really 当你真的有一个
interesting conversation with someone or 与某人或者有趣的对话
you're gripped by a book or you're 你被一本书紧紧抓住了，或者你就是
really into a movie or maybe something 真的变成电影或者其他东西
that you do as a you know apart from 你做你知道的除外
your work or maybe even in your work 你的工作， 甚至是你的工作
you're into it and that's because you 你进入它，那是因为你
are in the right place at the right time 在正确的时间处于正确的位置
and your whole nervous system is 你的整个神经系统是
signaling that to you and I would say 发信号给你，我会说
that's the sort of place that you should 那是你应该做 的那种地方
be all the time of course you can't be 当然，你无法做到
because no one's perfect but it's that's 因为没有人是完美的，但就是这样
that's the recreation of paradise on 那是在天堂的休闲娱乐
earth it's something like it because you 地球就是这样，因为你
are in the right place at the right time 在 正确的时间处于正确的位置
when that is happening subject to 当时发生这种情况
certain what would you say restrictions 确定你会说什么限制
that we can talk about later well that's 我们可以谈论以后嗯，这是
what this guy is doing and and that's I 这家伙在做什么，那就是我
would say akin to the action that God is 会说类似于上帝的行为
taking when he's transforming the chaos 当他正在改变混乱时
of potential into habitable being and 潜在的可居住的和潜在的
it's the sort of thing that human beings 这是人类的事情
supposed to act out and God said let the 应该表现出来，上帝说让
waters under heaven be gathered together 天堂下的水被聚集在一起
into one place and let the dry land 进入一个地方，让干地
appear and it was so God called the dry 出现，它就是如此神称干
land earth and the waters that were 土地和那些曾经的水域
gathered together he called seas and God 聚集在一起，他称海和上帝
saw that it was good well that's an 看着是好的嗯，这是一个
interesting thing too because you know 因为你知道有趣的事情
there's this display written by a German 有一个德国人写的这个显示
named Gupta I can never say that 我叫Gupta， 我永远不能这么说
properly it's johann van goe t-80 and I 正确的是johann van goe t-80和我
can't say it but he wrote this play 不能说，但他写了这个戏
called Faust and he wrote one part of it 所谓的浮士德，他写了一部分
when he was quite young and then Klaus - 当他还很年轻，然后克劳斯 -
when he was quite old and he has a 当他很老，他有一个
character in there Mestas tov ELISA 在那里的性格Mestastov ELISA
message da fleece is the devil and he 消息da fleece是魔鬼和他
actually has the devil explaining 其实有魔鬼解释
himself twice basically using the same 他自己两次基本上使用相同的
words which which I really like it was 我真的很喜欢它的话是
very profound and basically Goethe's 非常深刻，基本上是歌德的
Memphis dolly says you know he's the 孟菲斯多莉说，你知道他是
adversary of the word that's a good way 这是一个好方法，这个词的对手
of putting it because that's how it 的把它，因为这是怎么了
works out mythologically he's the figure 神话般的他是这个数字
behind the snake in the Garden of Eden 在伊甸园的蛇后面
which is something we'll talk about more 这是我们将要谈论的更多内容
but he has a he has a sophisticated 但他有一个他有一个成熟的
philosophy he's not just some random 哲学他不只是一些随机的
troublemaker he's got a he's got a deep 麻烦制造者，他有一个深刻的
philosophy and his philosophy is quite 哲学和他的哲学是相当的
straightforward and it's compelling it's 简单明了，而且很吸引人
compelling and people are gripped by it 引人注目，人们都被它紧紧抓住了
quite often far more often than they 往往比他们更频繁
think his philosophy is well look around 认为他的哲学很好看
at the world like Ivan karamakov in The 在世界像伊万卡拉马科夫在The
Brothers Karamazov when he's trying to 兄弟卡拉马佐夫当他试图
disabuse his younger brother of being a 消除他的弟弟是一个
Christian monk Memphis awfully says well 孟菲斯基督徒僧侣很好地说
look at the world I mean all we look 看看我的意思是我们所看到的世界
around the world it's nothing but a 在世界各地它只是一个
bloodbath 血洗
it's just suffering everywhere 它只是处处受苦
everything eats everything and people 一切都吃掉了一切和人
die terribly and and they're cruel to 死得很厉害，而且他们很残忍
one another and the whole mass is 彼此和整个质量是
nothing but a constant hall of terrible 只不过是一个可怕的大厅
carnage and ruin and and and and and and 大屠杀和毁灭和和和和和
wreck he says it should be better if it 破坏他说它应该会更好，如果它
was never existed at all and that's a 从来没有存在过，这是一个
very interesting that's a very very 非常有趣，这是非常非常有趣的
interesting idea and I do believe and 有趣的想法，我相信和
I've seen this in people many times but 我曾多次在人们身上看到过这个，但是
in the depths of despair especially when 在绝望的深渊尤其是当
you've been betrayed for example and you 例如，你被背叛了
wander into the wrong subdivision of the 徘徊到错误的细分
underworld that 黑社会那
something that comes to mind if you know 如果你知道的话就会想到这些
you have a very sick child for example 你有一个 例子 非常生病的孩子
or maybe your whole family is suffering 或者你的全家都在受苦
as whole families do sometimes an idea 因为整个家庭有时会有一个想法
is going to come to you it's like good 会来找你，这很好
God who put this mess together and is it 将这个混乱放在一起的上帝
really worth it is it really worth the 真的值得吗是不是真的值得
suffering suicidal people you know they 患有自杀的人，你知道他们
say no they say no enough of this you 说不，他们说没有足够的这个你
know and you have to be pushed a long 知道，你必须被推迟很长时间
way generally speaking before you'll 一般来说，在你之前
actually commit suicide you have to be 实际上你必须自杀
in very very desperate straits but your 在非常非常绝望的海峡中，但你的
answer under those conditions is that 那些条件下的答案就是这样
being is such that it would be better if 如果是这样，它会更好
it had never been and that's a very I 它从来没有，这是一个非常我
think I think it's a very it's a 认为我认为这是非常重要的
terrible philosophy I believe because I 我相信我是可怕的哲学
think what happens if you act it out is 想一想，如果你这样做会发生什么
that you make the very things that led 你做出了那些领导的东西
you to despair far worse and I can't see 你绝望得更糟，我看不到
that if it's reasonable to draw a 如果绘制一张图片是合理的
logical conclusion that suffering should 逻辑结论是痛苦应该
justifies your desire to make being end 证明你渴望结束
that the answer to that can't be to 是这个问题的答案不能是
produce more suffering 产生更多的痛苦
it just doesn't make sense and my 它只是没有任何意义，我的
observation has been that people who act 观察一直是那些行事的人
out the Memphis to--they liyan 孟菲斯 - 他们是李彦
philosophy inevitably make suffering far 哲学不可避免地让苦难变得遥远
worse and so and then that raises the 更糟糕的是，那么这会提高
other specter of well do they want being 他们想要的其他幽灵也是
just diseased or they just out for 只是患病或他们只是为了
bloody revenge at every at any cost and 无论任何代价和每一个血腥的报复
my conclusion has always been that is 我的结论一直是那样的
that the mask is well being shouldn't 该面具是不应该的
exist because it's too terrible but the 存在，因为它太可怕了，但是
true motivation is I'm going to make 真正的动机是我会做
everyone suffer as much as I possibly 每个人都遭受像我可能
can before I say goodbye to this place 可以在我告别这个地方之前
if you read the writings of people like 如果你读过像人这样的着作
the kids who showed up the Columbine 出现哥伦比亚的孩子们
High School they'll tell you exactly 高中他们会完全告诉你
that that's precisely and exactly what 这正是和正是如此
they conclude it and then act it out 他们得出结论然后实施
so anyways but in this God says that it 所以无论如何，但在这上帝说，它
was good and I thought about that a lot 很好， 我想到 了很多
is like because the question is 就像是因为问题是
something like well is it something 这是一件好事
better than nothing because that's a 比没有好，因为这是一个
really good question you know and I 真的很好的问题你和我知道
thought about two things in relationship 想到关系中的两件事情
to that and one is one is well maybe it 对此，一个人可能也是如此
depends on how it is that you are right 取决于它 是 你是正确的
because it could be that there are ways 因为这可能是有办法的
of being in the world to justify the 在世界上证明这一点
world and their ways of being in the 世界及其在生活中的方式
world that makes the world unbearable 让这个世界变得无法忍受的世界
and I believe that the narrative that 我相信那个叙述
runs through the biblical stories is 贯穿圣经的故事是
precisely a dialogue between those two 恰恰是这两者之间的对话
types of BA and the optimistic part of BA的类型和乐观的部分
the story is that being requires 故事就是要求
limitation and suffering there's no 没有限制和痛苦
escape from that but there are modes of 逃避，但有模式
being that allow that to be perhaps even 因为这可以让它变得平均
more than tolerable perhaps there are 也许有更多可以容忍的地方
modes of being that allow that to be 存在的模式是允许的
good and it's a straight and narrow road 好，这是一条狭窄而平坦的道路
it's a very difficult road to tread so 这是一条非常艰难的道路
so I think well that that's possible you 所以我认为这是可能的
know I'm not an optimist by nature and 知道自然和我并不乐观
but that's that's one of the things that 但这就是其中的一件事情
I've conceptualized and read about that 我已经概念化并阅读了相关内容
I actually find plausible because it's 其实我觉得合理的，因为它是
certainly the case everyone knows this 肯定是这样的每个人都知道这
that there are ways that you can act and 有些方法可以采取行动
make things worse 让事情变得更糟
everyone knows that and so if that's the 大家都知道， 所以如果是这样的
case there has to be the opposite right 情况必须有相反的权利
there has to be ways that you could act 必须有可以采取行动的方式
that make things better and obviously 让事情变得更好，明显
you can act in ways that make things 您可以以多种方式让事物 作用
really way worse and so the question is 真的更糟，所以问题是
well are there ways that you can act and 那么有没有办法可以采取行动？
make things really much better and I 让事情变得更好，我
think that's the question is can we have 认为这是我们可以拥有的问题
our cake and eat it too 我们的蛋糕，也吃了
can we have the being that requires 我们能否拥有需要的存在？
limitation and suffering and also 限制和痛苦， 也
simultaneously transcend that by our 同时超越了我们的
mode of being and I believe that the 存在的模式，我相信
biblical stories and then perhaps not 圣经的故事，然后也许不是
only the biblical stories but the 只有圣经故事而已
biblical stories are the human imagine 圣经故事是人类想象的
one of the human imaginations best 人类最好的想象之一
attempt to address and answer that 试图解决并回答这个问题
question that's what the entire story is 问题在于整个故事是什么
about so the first of it is the 关于如此第一个是
catastrophe of the collapse of 灾难的崩溃
self-consciousness and the entrance of 自我意识和入口
humanity into history and the rest of it 人类进入历史和其他部分
is okay now we're in history now we know 没关系 ，现在我们正处在历史上，现在我们知道
that we're going to die we know about 我们将要死亡，我们知道
our mortality we're conscious of our own 我们的死亡率意识到我们自己
being is there a mode of acting in the 是否存在一种行事模式？
world that allows that to be justifiable 世界允许这是合理的
or maybe even more that allows that to 或者甚至可以让更多
be triumphant and then I would also say 胜利，然后我也会说
maybe it's worth finding out you know 也许值得你知道
that that's the other thing that's so 那这是说的那么 其他的事情
interesting because you've got this 有趣，因为你有这个
short time on earth and there's lots of 地球上很短的时间，有很多
things that are very very difficult to 事情是非常非常困难的
contend with and and you have the 与...竞争并且你拥有
problem of tolerating yourself even in 甚至容忍自己的问题
all your insufficiency and one of the 你所有的不足和其中一个
things that seems to me to be the case 事情似乎是我的情况
is that if you adopt a sufficiently 如果你采用了足够的话
profound mode of being if you attempt to 如果你想尝试的话，这种深刻的生存模式
do that then the mere act of lifting up 那么做那只是举起来的举动
that weight is enough to justify 这个重量足以证明
the fact that your insufficient and 事实证明你的不足和
mortal and and bound by tragedy and I 凡人和受悲剧和我的约束
believe that and I believe people 相信和我相信的人
believe that because if you watch how 相信因为如果你看如何
people act they look for people they 人们行为，他们寻找人
admire and they do admire people right 佩服，他们确实佩服人们的权利
it's a natural it's a natural phenomena 这是一种自然现象
you see it starting with children be 你会看到它从儿童开始
children admire and then they imitate 孩子们欣赏，然后他们模仿
and we look to people who seem to be 我们期待谁似乎是人
able to bear the burden of being in a 能够承受身体负担
heroic manner and there's something 英勇的方式，还有一些东西
inside of us that calls to that and it 我们的内部调用到它
makes us want to to mimic that and to 使我们想要模仿和
follow it and I think that that's I 按照它，我认为这就是我
think that's the deepest and most 认为这是最深和最多的
profound of instincts and I think it's 本能深刻，我认为是
right and even if you're not so 正确的， 即使你不是这样
convinced on the positive end you know 坚信自己知道的积极的结果
because it's more difficult to be 因为它更难以被
convinced of the positive you can 确信你能做到
certainly be convinced on the negative 肯定会对消极情绪产生信心
end because there are ways of being that 结束，因为有被那个方式
are so brutal and so reprehensible that 是如此残酷和如此应受谴责的
merely to read about them is enough to 仅仅阅读它们就足够了
traumatize you and I think that if 伤害你，我认为如果
you're a person who hasn't lost their 你是一个没有失去自己的人
soul completely you can't help but 灵魂完全你不禁
encounter stories like that and shudder 遇到类似的故事和不寒而栗的故事
away from them and you know Alexander 远离他们，你知道亚历山大
Solzhenitsyn 索尔仁尼琴
who who was the person who did most 谁是谁做的最多的人
announce the absolute horrors of 宣布绝对的恐怖
communist totalitarianism said that he 共产主义极权主义说他
believed that the Nuremberg judgments 相信纽伦堡审判
were the most important event of the 是最重要的事件
20th century and that was the judgment 20世纪，那是判断
at the end of World War two that there 在第二次世界大战结束时那里
were certain actions that no one was to 是没有人会采取的某些行动
undertake no matter what their cultural 不管他们的文化是什么
background was because they were let's 背景是因为他们是我们的
say crimes against humanity that there 在那里说反人类罪
was such a thing as universal evil and 是一种普遍的邪恶和邪恶的东西
you can debate that you know I mean and 你可以辩论你知道我的意思和
people certainly have but the problem is 人们肯定有，但问题是
is if you debate that then you have to 是，如果你是辩论，那么你必须
say that there are conditions under 说有条件下
which the sorts of things that happen 哪些事情发生
say in the concentration camps which 说在集中营哪些
would be the gassing of children after 会是后来的孩子们的气
their torture and and their their 他们的酷刑和他们的
forcible removal from their parents and 强行从他们的父母和父母身上移除
all the terrible things that went along 所有可怕的事情都一起发生
with that that that's just okay it's 与那这只是还好它
just an opinion it's just something that 只是一个意见，它只是一些东西
happened and there are circumstances 发生了，有情况
under which that's justifiable if 如果是，那么这是合理的
there's no transcendent good and evil 没有超然的善与恶
underneath that argument it's only a 在这个论点之下它只是一个
matter of practicality and and and it 问题的实用性和和它
seems to me that that's that's not the 在我看来，那不是那个
right conclusion to draw 正确的结论来画
that's how it seems to me and that's 这就是我对此的看法
what the Solzhenitsyn concluded when he 索尔仁尼琴在他的时候得出了什么结论
looked at the Nuremberg trials so the 看着纽伦堡的审判，所以
notion that the notion that it was good 认为这是好的 概念
well even if you don't believe that and 那么即使你不相信这一点
you know because maybe it's not as good 你知道，因为它可能不太好
as it could be I would say it's 因为它可能是我会说的
incumbent on you as someone who 现任你为人
participates in the process of a 参与a的过程
furthering creation to act as if it 进一步创造就像它
could be good at least and to further 至少可以做得更好，并且可以做得更好
that with with all of your efforts 与你所有的努力
partly because what the hell else do you 一方面是因为你到底还在做什么
have to do that could possibly be better 必须这样做可能会更好
than that that could possibly justify 比可能有理由
your existence more than that and you 你的存在比你更多
know perfectly well if you if you have 如果你有的话，非常了解你
any sense at all if you think clearly 如果你想清楚的话，任何意义
about it at all is that that's what you 关于它的是，那就是你
want to see in everyone else you know 希望看到你认识的其他人
it's you're you're desperate and maybe 这是你，你是绝望的，也许
you're cynical and now and then someone 你是玩世不恭的，现在又是某个人
appears that acts at least momentarily 似乎至少在一瞬间起作用
like a light in the darkness enough 就像黑暗中的一盏灯
lifts your spirit up and gives you a 举起你的精神，给你一个
little bit of hope and maybe helps you 一点希望，也许可以帮助你
continue on well that's obviously a call 继续很好，这显然是一个电话
to being if it's a statement from your 到是如果它是从你的陈述
old soul that says well there's 那个说的很好的老灵魂
something about that that's how you 有关于此的事情就是这样
should be and maybe then well we get a 应该是，也许那么我们会得到一个
chance to to participate in what is good 有机会参与什么是好的
I thought too you know well we'll leave 我想你也知道我们会离开
that for a little later and God said let 对于稍后和上帝说，让
the earth sprout vegetation plants 地球发芽植物植物
yielding seed and fruit trees bearing 产生种子和果树
fruit in which is their seed each 他们的种子每个都是水果
according to its kind on the earth and 根据其种类在地上，
it was so and the earth brought forth 它是如此，地球产生了
vegetation plants yielding seed 植被产生种子
according to their own kind and trees 根据自己的种类和树木
bearing fruit in which is their seed 结出了他们的种子
each according to its kind and God saw 每个都按照其种类和神看到
that it was good and there was evening 这是好的，有晚上
and there was morning the third day I 第三天早上就有了
like that that's you see it's 就像你看到的那样
interesting these old pictures say 这些老照片有趣说
because if you look here you got you got 因为如果你看这里，你有你
this halo around God's head and you've 这个光环绕在上帝的头上，你已经
got to split again between night and 在晚上和晚上之间再次分裂
darkness and gods right on the on the 在黑暗和神灵上
border between the two and that's the 两者之间的边界，那就是
Sun right that's what that's what a halo 太阳这就是这就是光环
is halo is the Sun or the moon sometimes 有时候晕是太阳或月亮
it's like a coin you know you have the 这就像一个你知道你有钱的硬币
Queen's head on the coin and that's the 女王的头在硬币上，这就是
queen on the moon and it's silver and 女王在月球上，它是银色的
it's a symbol of value because of course 这是因为课程价值的象征
the Queen is sovereign and 女王是主权的
the moon is the sovereign of the night 月亮是夜晚的主人
sky and and gold of course is the Sun 天空和黄金当然是太阳
and gold is pure because it doesn't mix 黄金是纯粹的，因为它不混合
with other metals and it shines like the 与其他金属一样，它闪耀着
Sun so it partakes of the Sun and god 太阳因此它参与了太阳和上帝
partakes of the Sun because there's 因为有太阳参加太阳
something about whatever he represents 他所代表的任何东西
that's associated with consciousness and 这与意识和
illumination and enlightenment 照明和启发
it's that force of illumination 这就是照明的力量
enlightenment that's it's right on the 启蒙， 这是正确的
border between these two sets of 这两套之间的边界
phenomena and that's that's kind of what 现象，这就是那什么样的
that picture is trying to present and so 那张照片是试图展示等
you know it's a metaphor that's one way 你知道这是一个比喻的一种方式
of thinking about it but it does again 想到它，但它又一次
allude to the underlying idea that 暗示了这个基本的想法
there's something about consciousness 有关于意识的东西
that's integral to to being itself God 这是成为自己上帝不可或缺的
said let there be lights in the expanse 说让那里有灯
of the heavens to separate the day from 天堂将天分开
the night and let them be for signs and 夜晚，让他们为标志和
for seasons and for days and for years 季节和几天以及几年
that's a that's a remarkable bit of a 这是一个显着的一点
bit of writing there too because you 在那里写作也是因为你
just think about how bloody long it took 只要想一想它花了多长时间
our caveman ancestors to look at the 我们的穴居人祖先去看看
night sky and start to figure out that 夜空，并开始弄清楚，
there were repeating patterns across 有横跨重复的模式
years that enabled them to mark the 几年，使他们标志着
seasons I mean I just can't imagine how 季节我的意思是我无法想象如何
they figured that out it's that degree 他们想通了它是 学位
of careful observation that it took and 仔细观察，它采取了
I mean we know people figure that out a 我的意思是我们知道人们知道这一点
long time ago because ah you know those 很久以前，因为你知道那些
great megalithic monuments like 伟大的巨石纪念碑像
Stonehenge seem to be astronomical 巨石阵似乎是天文数字
observatories essentially and you see 本质上和你看到的天文台
the same thing with the pyramids I mean 我说的金字塔也是一样
people were looking at the damn sky 人们正在看那该死的天空
trying to figure out looking at God you 试图找出你在看着上帝
know because that's kind of what you're 知道，因为那就是你的样子
doing when you're looking at the night 当你在看晚上的时候
sky trying to figure out the regularity 试图找出规律性的天空
and order in the universe and that's all 并在宇宙秩序，这就是全部
compacted into this little light you 压缩成这个小光你
know and let them be for signs and for 知道并让他们为标志和为
seasons to be oriented by the Stars 季节以星为导向
amazing and that let them be lights in 令人惊叹的，让他们成为灯光
the expanse of heavens to give light 天堂的光芒
upon the earth and it was so and God 在地球上，它是如此，而且是上帝
made the two great lights the greater 使这两个伟大的灯光更大
light to rule the day and the lesser 轻以统治一天和更少
light to rule the night and the Stars 用来统治夜晚和星星的光
and God set them in the expanse of 上帝把他们放在广阔的空间里
heavens to give light on the earth to 天堂为地球上的光照
rule over the day and over the night and 统治白天和在晚上
so there's an idea of sovereignty there 所以有一个主权的想法
too right that that that there's an 太对了，以至于有一个
analogy between the ruler and the and 统治者与和 之间的类比
the heavenly bodies that that light up 那照亮的天体
the that light up the darkness 那照亮黑暗
essentially and that's a really 基本上， 这是一个真正的
interesting idea too because it took us 太有趣的想法，因为它带走了我们
a long time to come to terms with as I 很长一段时间来与作为我而言
mentioned last week to come to term 上周提到可以上任
with the idea of sovereignty itself and 与主权的想法本身和
to decide what constituted valid power 决定什么构成有效的权力
it's not power it's not power its 这不是电力，它不是电力
authority and competence and not power 权威和能力，而不是权力
it's not dominance either it's more 它不是支配地位，也不是更多
sophisticated than that because the 复杂的比，因为
people that you want to rule aren't 你想要统治的人不是
people who have power because power just 因为权力而拥有权力的人
means I can hurt you and you can't hurt 意味着我可以伤害你，你不会受伤
me back that's that's not that that's 我回来那是不是那样
not what you need from a ruler even 而不是你从统治者那里得到的东西
though it devolves into that from time 尽管它从时间流入
to time what you want is the kind of 到时候你想要的就是那种
wisdom that illuminates the darkness and 照亮黑暗和智慧的智慧
to associate the sovereign with with the 把主权与主权联系起来
heavenly kings of the light is a 天上的光明君王是一位
perfectly reasonable thing to do from a 从一个完全合理的事情做起
metaphoric perspective and that's an 隐喻的角度，这是一个
ancient ancient idea you know and 古老的古老想法你知道和
another example of how we're grounded in 我们如何着手的另一个例子
a dream that God set them in the expanse 一个梦想，上帝让他们在茫茫人海中
of heavens to give light on the earth to 天堂为地球上的光照
rule over the day in the night and to 统治白天在夜间 和
separate the light from the darkness and 将光线从黑暗中分离出来
God saw that it was good another 上帝看到这又是一件好事
emphasis on the fact that it was better 强调它更好的事实
that there was something than nothing 有什么比什么都没有
and you know maybe you could maybe you 你知道也许你也许也许你
could consider that the Declaration of 可以认为，宣言
the cosmos is something like well it's 宇宙是一样的东西以及它的
better that there's something than 好有什么东西比
nothing and well how do you know that 没有什么，以及你怎么知道这一点
and I guess the answer to that is that 我想这就是答案
there's something instead of nothing and 里面的东西，而不是什么与
I know that that's not proof but but 我知道那不是证据，但是
it's still a remarkable fact that it 它仍然是一个显着的事实
happens to be the case and no one does 恰好是这种情况，没有人会这样做
know why that is so maybe we should go 知道为什么会这样，也许我们应该去
along with it and see what we can do 与它一起，看看我们能做些什么
with it you know and see how we could 与它你知道，看看我们怎么能
make it better because we certainly 让它变得更好，因为我们当然
could if we were if we were really 如果我们真的可以的话
committed to it and we shook our 致力于它和我们握手了
resentment and our our anger and our 怨恨和我们的愤怒和我们的
hatred and I know there's reason for all 仇恨，我知道这是所有人的理由
of that because people do suffer 那是因为人们确实受苦
terribly but you know god only knows 可怕但你知道上帝只知道
what being could be like if we all 如果我们都可能会是什么样子
contributed it contributed to it to the 贡献了它促成了它的
best of our ability god only knows what 我们最好的能力上帝只知道什么
we could conquer and what sort of 我们可以征服，什么样的
magnificent cities we could produce and 我们可以生产和壮丽的城市
what things we could we could eradicate 我们可以根除哪些事情
from from from the suffering of the 从... 的痛苦中解脱出来
world 世界
and there was you know there's this guy 你知道有这个人
I read about this is amazing and I don't 我读到这个很棒，我不知道
remember his name but he he found out 记住他的名字，但他发现了
about this worm that was called the 关于这个被称为的蠕虫
guinea worm and guinea worm is a really 几内亚蠕虫和几内亚蠕虫真的是
horrible thing and you can look it up if 可怕的事情，你可以查看它，如果
you want but I'll tell you a little bit 你想，但我会告诉你一点点
about it even though it's very 关于它，即使它非常
distasteful so I get any worm is a 反感，所以我得到任何蠕虫是
parasite that lives in Africa and it 生活在非洲的寄生虫和它
burrows under your skin and it's quite 在你的皮肤下挖洞，这是相当的
long it's about that long and it's you 这是很长的，这是你
know about that wide and so it'll burrow 知道那么宽，所以它会挖洞
underneath your leg and then it's in 在你的腿下面，然后它就进入了
there you know and maybe it pokes its 在那里你知道，也许它捅了它
little head out a hole which is one of 小头出了一个洞，这是其中之一
its delightful tendencies and then if 它的令人愉快的倾向， 然后如果
you want to pull it out it breaks right 要拉出它打破权
because obviously because otherwise you 因为显然是因为否则你
just pull it out it would be dead and so 只要把它拉出来就会死了等等
it doesn't like that so it just breaks 它不喜欢，所以它只是打破
off and many many people had this 关闭和许多人有这个
horrible disease you know and it's well 可怕的疾病，你知道，它很好
you can you can't imagine what that 你无法想象那是什么
would be like because you're a part of 会是因为你是其中的一员
the 1% and you live in North America and 1％，你住在北美和美国
thank God for that but you know just a 感谢上帝，但你知道的只是一个
little imagine you don't even want to 很少想象你甚至不想
think about it let alone have it and he 想想看，更不用说拥有它和他了
went to Africa and wiped the damn thing 去了非洲，并去除了该死的东西
out it's like great you know it seems to 这看起来好像你知道似乎
me the planets a lot better off without 我的行星好多了没有
any guinea worms on it even though 它的任何几内亚蠕虫即使
that's like guinea worm genocide talk 这就像几内亚蠕虫种族灭绝谈话
I'm still you know pretty happy about it 我仍然很高兴知道这件事
and so that was that was one guy who 所以那是一个人
thought well we don't need these things 我们认为我们不需要这些东西
and yeah well fair enough you know and 而且你知道的和公平的就够了
yeah well so good for him like you know 好像你知道的那样对他好
I mean he can die thinking that the 我的意思是他可能会死于思考
world's a better place than it was when 世界是一个更好的地方比它是当
he first popped out and so so good for 他首先突然出现，如此好
that that NASA I think that's a good 那美国国家航空和宇宙航行局我认为这是一件好事
that's a good aim you know I think is to 这是你知道我认为的一个好目标
think that when you're on your deathbed 认为，当你在临终时
you can look back and think well there's 你可以回顾过去，好好想想
a little less suffering in the world 世界上的痛苦少一点
from here on out than there would be if 从这里出来比如果
I had never existed and that's a lot 我从来没有存在过，这很多
better than the opposite because it's 因为它比相反更好
certainly possible say if you're Stalin 当然可以说，如果你是斯大林
to ensure that there's a hell of a lot 以确保有很多地狱
more suffering in the world than there 世界上比这更痛苦
would have been if you hadn't lived and 如果你还没有生活和
we perfectly well know that people can 我们完全知道人们可以
manage that and that many many people 管理和许多人
try to do nothing but in that but manage 尽量不做任何事情，但在那，但管理
precisely that so and it's hard for me 正是如此，它是对我来说很难
not to think about that as some sort of 不要把它想成某种形式
metaphysical evil and I think it's the 形而上学的邪恶，我认为它是
right way to look at it and there was 正确的方式来看待它，并有
evening and there was morning.the 4th 晚上， 有4每日早晨
day so yeah you have the Sun here and 那么是的，你有太阳在这里和
then the moon here as far as I can tell 然后在这里尽我所能地告诉月球
yeah yeah actually I think this is the 是的， 其实我认为这是
moon over here but but so yeah that's 月亮在这里，但如此是的，那就是
part of the Sistine Chapel which is you 这是你的西斯廷教堂的一部分
know an absolutely remarkable and then 知道一个绝对卓越，然后
they know part of the reason - and the 他们知道部分原因 - 而且
part of the reason I'm teaching about 我正在教授的部分原因
these biblical stories is because you 这些圣经故事是因为你
know I'm thinking because the humanities 知道我在思考，因为人文科学
have be decimated so badly and again I 我已经被糟 dec 得很厉害了
think that has mostly to do with 认为这主要与此有关
resentment and hatred more than anything 怨恨和仇恨比什么都重要
else but I don't really think that you 别的， 但我真的不认为你
can get a grip on the humanities and 可以抓住人文和科学
what they have to offer without knowing 他们所提供的不知道
the biblical stories because they're the 圣经的故事，因为他们是
they're the dream out of which the 他们是这个梦的出发点
humanities emerge and so unless you have 人文科学出现，所以除非你有
that background knowledge that dream 那梦想的背景知识
then there's all sorts of things that 然后有各种各样的事情，
are utterly profound that don't open 是完全深刻的，不开放
themselves up to you and Dante's Inferno 他们自己和你的但丁的地狱
would be one of those and Milton's 将是那些和米尔顿之一
Paradise Lost which is an absolutely 失乐园是绝对的
amazing piece of work I mean Milton 一块神奇的工作我的意思是米尔顿
wrote it because he wanted to justify 写了它， 因为他想证明
the ways of God to man you know what an 上帝对人类的方式你知道什么是
ambition that is and I mean he was 这是我的意思，他的野心
serious about that he took the problem 认真对待他解决问题
seriously it's like it's the Memphis 严重的就像是孟菲斯
dethalian problem is that well this is a dethalian问题是， 这是一个
rough business that were involved in and 粗糙的业务，涉及和
you know maybe maybe we should just give 你知道也许我们应该放弃
it up I think the world the whole world 它我认为这个世界是整个世界
I think was deciding that in the 1980s 我认为是在20世纪80年代
when we were deciding whether we going 当我们决定我们是否 去
to engage in the ultimate nuclear 从事最终的核能
catastrophe you know and we were very 灾难你知道，我们非常
very close to that a number of times and 非常接近那个次数
I think it was a collective decision in 我认为这是一个集体决定
some sense on the part of humanity that 这对人类来说有些意义
we might as well keep the whole awful 我们不妨保持整个可怕
game going rather than just demolish it 游戏而不是只是拆除它
but um but you know Milton he wrote 但是，但你知道他写的Milton
Paradise Lost - it's a dream again it's 失乐园 - 它再次成为梦想
a dream trying to explain the nature of 试图解释自然的梦想
being and the nature of evil and you 幸福和罪恶的性质和你
can't crack the damn thing without 无法破解这该死的东西，而不
knowing the underlying stories and 了解潜在的故事和
that's really too bad because it's 这真的太糟糕了，因为它
utterly profound and the reason you need 完全深刻和你需要的理由
profound things as far as I can tell you 我可以告诉你的是深刻的东西
need profound knowledge is because life 需要深刻的知识是因为生活
is actually a profound problem for 实际上是一个深刻的问题
everyone I mean you can shelter back and 大家对我的意思是你可以庇护回
live a very conservative existence and 过着非常保守的生活
look like more power to you I understand 看起来像更多的权力，你我明白
why you would do that but it doesn't 为什么你会这样做，但事实并非如此
stop you from having to face the 阻止你不得不面对
ultimate questions of life right there 终极的生活问题就在那里
right there in everyone's face and at 在每个人的脸上和在那里
least at some point your life and it 至少在某些时候你的生活和它
would be better if you could I think if 如果我能想到的话会更好
you could confront them full-on and 你可以全面对抗他们
to deal with them properly and to be a 妥善处理它们并成为一个
beacon of strength as a consequence of 作为后果的力量的烽火台
vadas and it's and I think that wisdom vadas， 而且我认为这是智慧
that's what the humanities are supposed 这就是人文科学的设想
to teach his wisdom and wisdom is what 教他的智慧和智慧是什么
enables you to deal honorably with the 使您能够与光荣交易
tragedy of life and I think you I can't 生活的悲剧，我认为你我不能
see how you could think that that was a 看看你怎么会认为这是一个
bad idea because they're going to be 糟糕的主意，因为他们会
times when you're in an emergency room 你在急诊室的时间
and you know prone to panic and to and 你知道容易发生恐慌，并且
to cry and to break down and to and to 哭泣，分手，并去
collapse and to be of no use to anyone 崩溃并且对任何人都没有用处
around you and that's not the right way 在你身边，那不是正确的方法
to be it's the right way to be in a 是它是在一个正确的方式
situation like that is to be strong and 这样的情况是强
reliable and I don't think you can do 可靠，我不认为你能做到
that without being wise and you can't be 那不是明智的，你不可能
wise without putting yourself together 没有把自己放在一起
and without knowing something about 并且不知道什么
where you came from and what you're like 你来自哪里以及你喜欢什么
and that that's history and the 那就是历史和现实
humanities and so this isn't optional 人文等等，这不是可选的
it's it's it's more necessary the man 这是男人更需要的
does not live by bread alone and that's 不靠面包而生活，就是这样
exactly the issue here so you see these 正是这个问题，所以你看到这些
magnificent works you know I mean 你知道我的意思是宏伟的作品
there's a there's it's not like 有一个不是这样的
Michelangelo thought of this literally 米开朗基罗从字面上想到了这一点
you know he was a genius for god sake 你知道他是上帝的份天才
and he's trying to get at something and 而他的努力得到某样东西，
and he's trying to get at the profundity 他正在努力探索这个深度
of human culture I suppose that's why 人类的文化，我想这就是为什么
you have this patriarchal figure here 你在这里有这个父权制的身影
and the cosmic role that consciousness 和意识的宇宙角色
and tradition plays in being itself and 传统扮演着自己和自己的角色
and it's ennobling and you know you 它是高贵的，你知道你
think people religious or not people 认为人们是宗教或不是人
hundreds of millions of people come from 数以亿计的人来自
all over the world to Rome and go 世界各地的罗马和去
through this little tiny chapel to look 通过这个小小教堂看看
at this it's something in it that 在这里它是这样的
everyone needs to see you know it's not 每个人都需要看到你知道它不是
just beauty it's more than beauty it's 只是美而不是美而已
it's that which feeds the soul and 这是为灵魂提供食物的
everyone feels that even if they can't 即使他们不能，每个人都会感觉到
explain it so and God said let the 解释它，上帝说让
waters swarm with swarms of living 有群居的水域群
creatures and let birds fly above the 生物，并让鸟儿飞过
earth across the expanse of the heavens 地球横跨天空
so God created the great sea creatures 所以上帝创造了伟大的海洋生物
and every living creature that moves 和每一个移动的生物
with which the waters swarm according to 与该水域根据蜂拥
their kinds and every winged bird 他们的种类和每只翅膀的鸟
according to its kind and God saw that 根据其种类和上帝看到的
it was good and God blessed them saying 这很好，上帝保佑他们说
be fruitful and multiply and fill the 生养众多，并填补了
waters in the seas and that birds 海中的水和那些鸟
multiply on the earth and there was 在地球上繁衍，就有了
evening and there was morning the fifth 晚上， 第五天早上
day and God said let the earth bring 一天，上帝说让地球带来
forth living creatures according to 根据第一个生物
their kinds livestock and creeping 他们的牲畜和匍匐
beasts creeping things and beasts of the 野兽爬行的东西和野兽
earth 地球
according to their kinds and it was so 根据他们的种类和它是如此
and God made the beasts of the earth 上帝造了地上 的走兽
according to their kinds and the 根据他们的种类和
livestock according to their kinds and 牲畜根据种类和
everything that creeps on the ground 一切在地面上蔓延
according to its kind kind right that's 根据它的那种善良的权利
kin right and to be kind is to treat 亲善和善待就是要治疗
others as if they're your kin and so 其他人就好像他们是你的亲属一样
according to its kind and God saw that 根据其种类和上帝看到的
it was good that continually continually 这不断持续下去是件好事
represented over and over God said 上帝说，代表了上帝
that's the thing that calls being into 就是这样被调用到的东西
existence and God said it was good and 存在和上帝说，这是好的和
that's the fundamental judgment about 这是关于的基本判断
the nature of reality and you know one 现实 的本质和你知道的一个
of the things that happens in the in the 在...中发生的事情
translation in the movement let's say 让我们来说说运动中的翻译
from the Old Testament to the New 从旧约到新
Testament is God is obviously blessing 遗书是上帝显然是祝福
creation in the beginning of this story 在这个故事的开始创造
and then you have Old Testament God and 然后你有旧约的神和
like don't mess around with him right 就像不要惹他一样
because he'll give you a good smiting if 因为如果他会给你一个很好的打击
you get out of line there's no doubt 你走出行毫无疑问
about that and he's kind of an arbitrary 关于这一点，他是一个任意的
character and you know lots of modern 性格，你知道很多现代
people think well how could you believe 人们认为你怎么能 相信
in a God like that and it's like when I 在这样的上帝中，就像我一样
read that I think well that the Old 读到我认为旧的
Testament people that is how they 约翰的人就是这样
thought they thought you better look the 以为他们认为你最好看看
hell out because life is really 因为生活真的很糟糕
difficult and if you step out line 很难，如果你走出去线
you're going to get flattened and God 你会变得扁平化和上帝
doesn't care in some sense whether you 不管你是否在某种意义上都不关心
approve of him it's like what the hell 赞同他就像是地狱一样
does that have to do with anything 这是否与任何事情有关
obviously you don't approve it's like 显然你不赞成这样
you better pay attention though because 你最好注意，因为
otherwise you're going to be in real 否则你会成为现实
trouble and not there's real wisdom and 麻烦， 而不是有真正的智慧和
that Nietzsche thought that it need to 尼采认为它需要
really admire the Old Testament that's a 真的很佩服旧约那是一个
work of literature because he thought 因为他认为文学作品
that the representation of the divine 神的代表
let's say as a representation of the 比方说，为的表示
essential nature of being was 存在的本质是
extraordinarily accurate in its 非常准确的
arbitrary and often cruel nature you 任意而且往往残酷的你
know it wasn't following a morality that 知道这不是遵循道德的
human beings could really understand as 人类可以真正理解为
moral he thought that was very realistic 道德他认为这是非常现实的
and I like that interpretation but what 我喜欢解释，但什么
happens in the New Testament is quite 在新约中发生的事情是相当的
interesting because there's an 有趣，因为有一个
insistence all of a sudden in the New 坚持在新的突然
Testament that you're supposed to act 你应该采取行动的遗嘱
towards God as if he's nothing but good 对上帝来说，好像他只是个好人
and that's such a strange thing because 这是一件很奇怪的事情，因为
you know you look at the world it you 你知道你看看世界是你
think we're yeah really just good a well 认为我们是真的很好
the cancer and the earthquakes is kind 癌症和地震是亲切的
of hard to fit into that picture and you 很难适合那张照片和你
know the terrible things that happen to 知道发生的可怕事情
children and all about is very difficult 孩子和所有关于非常困难
to square with the notion of a good God 与善良的上帝的观念相一致
obviously 明显
but then there's the other underlying 但接下来还有另一个基础
idea is that if you act in that manner 想法是，如果你以这种方式行事
it makes it more likely to be true it's 它使它更可能是真实的
something like that and so it's that I 类似的东西， 所以这就是我
would consider that in some sense and 会在某种程度上认为和
active both courage and faith it's like 积极的勇气和信念就像
you're going to make the case like God 你要做出像神的情况下
makes at the beginning of the Bible that 在圣经的开头就说明了 这一点
being is in fact good now you can't see 现在实际上你是看不到的
it because well you get to see all the 这是因为你可以看到所有的东西
things about it that aren't so good 关于它的事情不那么好
that's not the point 那不是重点
it's a metaphysical presupposition 这是一个形而上学的前提
something like that it's a it's a 像这样的事情，它是一个
decision to act that way I'm going to 决定以我将要采取的方式行事
act as if being is good and to further 表现得好像还有进一步的表现
that and then the implicit idea is well 那隐含的想法是好的
there isn't anything that there isn't 没有任何东西没有
any way that you can make things work 任何方式，你可以使事情工作
out better than to do that and so 好于做到这一点，因此
there's a courageous element to it which 它有一个勇敢的因素
i think is also expressed to some degree 我认为也有一定程度的表达
in the idea of Christ's like voluntary 在基督像自愿的想法
sacrifice of his own life his 牺牲自己的生命
presupposition was something like I'm 预设就像我一样
going to act as if God is good and I'm 要行动，好像上帝是好的，我是
going to play that out right to the end 我们会把这一切发挥到最后
and now that becomes something like a 现在它变得像一个
divine pattern and I believe there's 神圣的模式，我相信那里
wisdom in that because again I most of 智慧在那，因为我再次是最
the time that I've been wrestling with 我一直在摔跤的时间
this sort of thing I've always been 这样的事情我一直
looking at the opposite I haven't been 看着对面我没有去过
studying good I've been studying evil 学习好我一直在研究邪恶
because evil is easier to believe 因为邪恶更容易相信
especially after the 20th century it's 特别是在20世纪之后
like I think you have to be you have to 就像我认为你必须是你必须的
be blind not to think about the things 盲目不去想事情
that happened in the 20th century as 发生在20世纪
evil and then some of the things that 邪恶，然后一些事情
happen we're so brutal it is just 发生，我们是如此残酷，它只是
absolutely unimaginable and well unless 绝对不可思议，除非
you imagine it and and it's it's it's 你想象它，它就是它
right there it's part of the historical 就在那里它是历史的一部分
record it's it and then I think well if 记录下来，然后我认为如果
there's something that that's it's that 有些事情就是这样
terrible it indicates as clearly as 可怕的是它表明得很清楚
anything can that there's also something 什么都可以，还有一些东西
that's its opposite and that's whatever 这是相反的，那就是无论如何
it is that the farthest away possible 这是最远的可能
from that outcome now that doesn't mean 从现在的结果来看，这并不意味着
we can exactly say what it is because 我们可以准确地说，这是什么原因
it's easier to grip in some sense what 从某种意义上说，抓握更容易
it means to torture and break and hurt 它意味着折磨，打破和伤害
and then not to be able to conceptualize 然后不能概念化
so clearly how you would have to act if 清楚你如何采取行动
you were acting in the exact opposite 你的表现完全相反
manner but at least it implies that it 但至少它意味着它
exists 存在
and I see that pattern being laid out in 我看到这种模式正在布局中
this dreamlike manner in the New 这在新的 梦幻般的方式
Testament and it has something to do 遗嘱和它有一些事情要做
with well it has something to do and 以及它有一些事情要做
this is for sure with the voluntary 这是肯定的自愿
acceptance of mortality because of 接受因死亡率
course that's the poisoned apple right 当然，这是毒苹果的权利
the fact that everybody looks forward 大家都期待的事实
into the future to know that you're 在未来知道你是
finite and so is everything that you 有限的，你的一切都是如此
love and it's very difficult for that 爱，这是非常困难的
not to poison your existence and well 不要毒害你的存在和好
there's no getting out of it as far as 有没有尽可能远离它
we can tell but there might be something 我们可以告诉但可能有些事情
like switching your attitude to it and 相似的转换你的态度它和
you could say well that's the price you 你可以说这就是你的价格
pay for being and the heroic thing to do 支付是和英雄的事
is to accept that and not even to accept 是接受，而不是连接受
it grudgingly to say alright I'm going 它勉强地说好的，我要走了
to go along with that I'm going to 与我要去一起去
accept that and I'm going to act 接受并且我会采取行动
nonetheless as if being is good and then 尽管如此，好像还是那样
I'm going to see how things turn out 我要看到的事情最终会如何
it's something like that and God saw 这就是这样的事情，上帝看到了
that it was good and so it's an act of 它是好的，所以这是一种行为
courage right there there's an act of 勇气就在那里有一种行为
courage that's associated with that 与此相关的勇气
transformation of attitude and even with 态度转换，甚至与
regards to the notion that the world is 关于这个世界是这样的概念
good it's a courageous attitude 好，这是一种勇敢的态度
especially given that there's so much 尤其是考虑到有这么多
evidence that makes that conclusion 证据表明这一结论
difficult to continually draw but the 难以持续吸引但是
alternative seems to me to be far worse 对我来说替代似乎更糟糕
so there's God again with the Sun behind 所以在太阳背后还有上帝
him because he's associated with the 他，是因为他与关联
solar consciousness and he's creating 太阳意识和他的创造
all these strange wonderful creatures 所有这些奇怪的奇妙生物
and and you know it's a and people say 而且你知道这是一个和人们说的
well you know the idea of God as a an 好吧，你知道上帝的想法是一个
old man in the sky let's say that's 天空中的老男人让我们说这是
primitive it's much more better to think 原始思考要好得多
about it as a much more better Jesus 关于它是一个更好的耶稣
anyways it's more sophisticated to think 无论如何，思考更复杂
to think of the divine essence as a 把神的本质视为一种
disembodied spirit or something like 无形的精神或类似的东西
that but you know that's not so that's 但你知道那不是那么回事
not so obvious either because as I 不是很明显，因为像我一样
already pointed out there isn't anything 已经指出没有任何东西
that's more complicated than a human 这比人类更复杂
being and and so the idea that the 正在和和所以这个想法
divine is something that's at least as 神圣的东西至少是这样的
complicated as a human being strikes me 当人类袭击我时，会变得复杂
as something that's actually quite 作为其实相当的 东西
reasonable and I know it's a metaphor 合理，我知道这是一个比喻
although I don't know to what degree it 虽然我不知道它到底是什么程度
is a metaphor and it's also something 是一个隐喻，也是一些东西
that's embodied and I really that's also 这是体现的，我真的也是
a very interesting notion 一个非常有趣的概念
you know because it's become 你知道，因为它成了
increasingly obvious as we tried to do 正如我们试图做的那样越来越明显
such things as produce artificial 诸如产生人造的东西
intelligence that it's very difficult to 智力， 这是非常困难的
produce an intelligence or perhaps a 产生一种情报或者一种情绪
consciousness that isn't embodied in 没有体现的意识
some manner it can't be just it can't be 某种方式它不能只是它不能
just a spirit the spirit without form 只是一种没有形式精神的精神
and I think that's part of the reason to 我认为这是理由的一部分
why Christianity put so much emphasis at 为什么基督教把这么多的重视，在
the end of time on the resurrection of 复活的时间结束了
the body because there's there's a 身体，因为那里有一个
there's a drive in there to e Noble to 那里有一个驱动器让贵族去
ennoble the idea of the body not just 高尚的身体不仅仅是想法
the spirit the consciousness that floats 精神浮动的意识
abstractly above the body but to say 抽象地高于身体，但要说
that no you can't do that you can't just 不，你不能这样做，你不能只是
shed that part of you that's heavy and 摆脱那些沉重而又沉重的部分
material so to speak and leave it behind 可以说的材料并将其留在后面
as if it's of no value you have to be 就好像它是没有价值的，你必须要
Noble and Noble that as well and that 贵族和贵族也是如此
idea is also linked to the note to the 想法也与注释相关联
representation of God as as a human 上帝作为人类的代表
being and as a wise human being and as 作为一个智慧的人类和作为
something that's embodied and so at 这是体现的，如此
least from the metaphorical perspective 至少从隐喻的角度来看
I don't think it's reasonable just to to 我不认为这是合理的
brush your hands across it and say well 刷你的手穿过它，并说好
that's that's primitive because I don't 那是原始的， 因为我没有
think it is I don't think it's primitive 认为这是我不认为这是原始的
at all and then God said let us make man 然后上帝说让我们做人
in our image after our likeness and it's 在我们的形象之后，我们的形象和它的
our because well this is a this is part 我们因为这是一个这是一部分
of the priestly story there's as I said 正如我所说的那样 ， 这是神父故事的一部分
a number of sources for the Old 旧的一些来源
Testament and in the priestly version if 遗嘱和在祭司版本如果
I remember correctly its Elohim that may 我记得它的Elohim可能是正确的
be wrong doesn't matter but the 错了不要紧，但
precisely it doesn't matter because the 恰恰它并不重要，因为
notion is is that the God who's in the 概念就是那个在神中的神
background of this story has a kind of 这个故事的背景有一种
plurality of being right and it looks 多个是正确的，它看起来
like the idea of monotheism arose with 就像一神论的想法出现了
great difficulty across time because 跨越时间很困难， 因为
there are lots of powers and the idea 有很多权力和想法
that there's a power of powers was 有权力的权力是
something that it wasn't easy for people 这对人们来说并不容易
to figure out you know in it because 找出你的，因为知道
what what constant across sources of 什么东西是不变的
power or some kind of meta power but 权力或某种类型的权力，但
it's hard to figure out what that is and 很难弄清楚那是什么和
that's what's being represented by by 这就是所代表的
the movement as far as I can tell from 据我所知，这个运动
polytheism to monotheism it's it's the 多神教对一神论它是它的
first the observation that there are 先观察，有
powers that determine the destiny of 决定命运的权力
people at least in part that you 人们至少部分 你
that you're subject to and then the idea 你受制于然后是主意
that there's something common across all 所有人都有共同点
those powers that you can represent 你可以代表的那些权力
partly say with the idea of the Sun 部分与太阳的想法有关
rising in the morning and fighting its 在上午的上升和它战斗
way out of the darkness at night and 在夜晚和黑暗中走出黑暗
that that's associated with 那是与之相关的
consciousness and sovereignty is very 意识和主权是非常
very see one of the things that bothers 非常看到其中一件让人烦恼的事情
me about simple-minded atheism and I 我关于头脑简单的无神论和我
would say the simple-minded atheism is 会说简单的无神论是
of the sort that regards these stories 那些关注这些故事的那种
as nothing but simple superstitions is 就像简单的迷信一样
that it's very very poorly informed 这是非常非常知情
because whatever these stories are 因为无论这些故事是什么
they're not merely simple superstitions 他们不仅仅是简单的迷信
they weren't conjured up by some cabal 他们没有被一些阴谋迷惑
of priests to bamboozle the masses even 甚至祭司们也可以哄骗群众
though they were used for that purposes 尽管它们被用于这个目的
from time to time it's much much more 不时有更多
complicated than that they have a very 比他们有一个非常复杂
ancient lineage and they're tied 古代的血统，他们被捆绑
together with all sorts of other stories 连同各种其他故事
and there's there's an emergent wisdom 那里有一种新的智慧
in them and I think the right way to 在他们和我认为正确的方式
view them is as the birthplace of 查看它们是作为的发源地
sophisticated philosophical ideas and so 精致的哲学思想等等
you have to wrestle with these stories 你必须与这些故事搏斗
you can't just and I said already that 你不能只是，我已经说过了
I'm going to be as rational as I 我会像我一样理性
possibly can in my discussion of these 可能可以在我的这些讨论中
stories and not refer to anything 故事而不是指任何东西
metaphysical except when that's 形而上除非是这样
absolutely necessary even though I don't 即使我没有，也是绝对必要的
want to eliminate the possibility of a 想要消除一个可能性
metaphysical reality because I think 因为我认为形而上的现实
that's premature but but you have to 这是不成熟的，但你必须
take the story seriously if you're going 如果你要去认真对待故事
to if you're if you're going to if 如果你是，如果你要如果
you're going to approach the problem 你会解决这个问题
properly you can't just casually dismiss 正确地说，你不能随便解雇
them it's not appropriate and so so let 他们不合适，所以让
us make man in our image that's a very 我们让我们的形象成为一个非常非常的人
interesting idea and like I said it's 有趣的想法，就像我说的那样
not easy to understand how it was that 不容易理解这是怎么回事
human beings came up with the idea that 人类想出的想法，
us lowly creatures were so it with the 我们这些低微的动物都是如此
Mesopotamians for example and the Greeks 例如美索不达米亚人和希腊人
were like this to human beings weren't 像这样对人类不是
godlike they were 他们是神
the playthings of the gods right they 神的玩具正确他们
were they were just the gods just 他们只是神而已
tortured us for their amusement you know 折磨我们为他们的娱乐你知道
love and hatred and anger and all those 爱和仇恨以及所有这些
powerful forces we were just 我们只是强大的力量
you're just playthings to the gods there 你只是玩神的地方
wasn't anything particularly divine 没有什么特别的神圣
about us the notion that in some sense 关于我们在某种意义上的概念
we partake of the divine that's a 我们分享了神圣的一面
staggering idea and you don't want to 令人咋舌的想法，你不想
under underestimate the difficulty that 低估了这个难度
there was in abstracting that or the 有人在抽象这个或那个
utility of that idea for our current 这个想法对我们目前的实用性
mode of being 生存方式
let them have dominion over the fish of 让他们掌握鱼的权力
the sea and over the birds of the 海洋和鸟类的
heavens and over the livestock and all 天堂和地上的牲畜和全
the earth and over every creeping thing 地球和每一个爬行的东西
that creeps on the earth so God created 那是神在地上创造的
man in his own image in the image of God 以自己的形象表现上帝的形象
he created him male and female he 他创造了他的男性和女性他
created them that's interesting because 创造了他们很有趣，因为
there is more than one creation story in 有不止一个创作故事
Genesis and in this story males and 创世纪和这个故事中的男性和女性
females are basically created at the 女性基本上是在创造
same time later Eve is extracted out of 同时后伊芙被提取出来的
Adam and we'll talk about that but not 亚当，我们会谈论但不是
here it's the two sexes are generated 这里是两个性别的产生
simultaneously and they both carry 同时，他们都携带
within them the divine stamp which is 在他们内部是那个神圣的邮票
very egalitarian and very appropriate 非常平等，非常合适
and I think unbelievably advanced that 我认为令人难以置信的是先进
that's what it looks like to me and God 这就是我和上帝看起来的样子
blessed them well that's a good thing 就赐福给他们清楚，是一件好事
and God said to them be fruitful and 上帝对他们说，富有成效
multiply and fill the earth and subdue 繁殖和填补地球，并制服
it and have dominion over the fish of 它并且拥有对这条鱼的统治权
the sea and over the birds of the 海洋和鸟类的
heavens and over every living thing that 天堂和每一个生物的东西
moves on the earth and there's God 在地球上移动，有上帝
creating Adam and Eve and they're 创造亚当和夏娃，他们是
looking pretty happy about the whole 看起来整个都很开心
thing and that's Michelangelo's famous 这是米开朗基罗的名声
Sistine Chapel representation and 西斯廷教堂的代表和
there's some cool things about this I 这个我有一些很酷的事情
mean you got to wonder this this is a 意味着你不得不想这是一个
side and I don't know if it's a credible 我不知道这是否可信
side but it's an interesting aside so 但这是一个有趣的事情
that's that's a form of credible what 那是一种可信的形式
the hell is God doing in this thing now 到底是神在这件事情现在做
I mean what is this exactly and and so 我的意思是，这是什么，正是如此
there's been some interesting answers to 还有的是一些有趣的答案
that and this is one of them so there 即，这是其中之一，所以有
was a group of scientists about 20 years 是一群大约二十年的科学家
ago that that were remarked on the 以前，被说的那
precise the precise analogy between this 精确地比较这一点
structure and the brain bisected down 结构和大脑一分为二
the middle and of course Michelangelo 中间，当然米开朗基罗
was one of the first people who did 是最早的人之一
detailed dissections and so they felt 详细的解剖，所以他们感觉
that that that Michelangelo had put God 那个米开朗基罗把上帝放在那里
inside the brain for some reason and 出于某种原因和大脑
that seems to me to be associated with 在我看来， 要关联
the notion that there's you know there's 这是你知道的概念
a there's an analogy or metaphorical 有一个比喻或隐喻
identity between the notion of whatever 无论什么概念之间的身份
God is and the structures that give rise 上帝是和产生结构
to consciousness and I think we really 意识，我认为我们真的
underestimate the 低估了
degree to which consciousnesses is both 该意识程度既
say miraculous and and not understood I 说奇迹，而不理解我
mean you know you you have what appears 意味着你知道你有什么出现
to be an entirely material substrate yet 成为一个完全物质基板呢
here you are aware itself aware and able 在这里你意识到自己的意识和能力
to generate the world merely in some 仅仅产生世界一些
sense by looking at it it really is 通过看它真的是感觉
remarkable and that consciousness is 显着而且意识是
dependent on on something that Wells up 依赖于Wells的东西
from deep within that material substrate 从该材料基底的深处
that we don't understand at all it's 我们完全不了解它
it's really a crazily remarkable thing 这真是一件非常不寻常的事情
you know and you hear you hear a lot 你知道，你听到你听到很多
about scientific reductionism but I'll 关于科学还原论，但我会的
tell you something that's kind of 告诉你一些事情
interesting in this it's a tangent to 有趣的是这是一个切线
you know the guy that discovered DNA I 你知道发现DNA的那个家伙
think it was Watson and just walks in 认为这是沃森， 然后走进来
and Crick but I don't remember who wrote 和克里克，但我不记得是谁写的
this book but one of them I don't 这本书，但其中的一个 我不
remember which one he believed the DNA 记住他认为哪一个DNA
was so complicated that it had to come 太复杂了，它不得不来
from space he didn't believe it could 从他认为不可能的空间开始
have possibly evolved on earth and so 有可能在地球上演化等等
like a lot of these people who are used 就像很多这些使用过的人一样
as exemplars of scientific reductionism 作为科学还原论的范例
aren't like that at all when you 不喜欢，在所有当你
actually read what they had to say right 实际上读了他们必须说的话
they they were very aware of the limits 他们，他们非常清楚的界限
of their own knowledge and I mean DNA is 他们自己的知识，我的意思是DNA是
something really quite spectacular Lee 一些非常壮观的李
remarkable it's an eternal substance 它是一个永恒的物质
it's been around for a very long time 它已经存在很长时间了
and the idea that we understand it is a 而我们理解它的想法是
very stupid idea and I would say that I 非常愚蠢的想法，我会说我
would say that the same thing applies to 会说同样的事情适用于
the brain like where we're scratching 脑等，其中我们刮伤
away at the surface of something we 离开我们的东西的表面
don't understand at all 根本不理解
so it's quite interesting I think that 所以我觉得这很有趣
and it maybe Michelangelo had enough 也许米开朗琪罗已经够了
gall to do that it's certainly possible 胆子这样做，这当然是可能的
I mean he had enough gall to do 我的意思是他有足够的胆量去做
dissections when the when the cost of 解剖什么时候的成本
that was death you know he had this 那是死亡，你知道他有这个
robbed corpses essentially to go and do 抢尸体基本上去做
it so he was he wasn't I would say not 这让他感到他不是我要说的不是
particularly politically correct so so 特别是政治正确，从而使
that's kind of interesting and there's 这很有趣，有
another representation of the same thing 同样的事情另一种表示形式
and that's a funny one I had to throw 这是我不得不抛出的一个有趣的
that in I don't know how many of you 在我不知道你们有多少人
know this but there's there's there's 知道这一点， 但那里是存在的
this joke in the atheistic atheist 这个无神论无神论者的笑话
community I think it might have be 我认为这可能是社区
started by Richard Dawkins but that 理查德道金斯开始但那
might be wrong that it was just as 可能是错误的，它是一样的
reasonable to believe in the Flying 合理地相信飞行
Spaghetti Monster as it was to believe 意粉怪物，因为它是相信
in God into that's a Flying Spaghetti 在上天入，这是一个飞面
Monster by the way and and and so that's 怪物顺便说一句，那就是这样
that's called cuts by his noodly 这被称为削减他的noodly
appendage and anyways it's fine it's not 附件和反正它是好的它不是
very sophisticated but it is funny so 非常复杂， 但很有趣
and God blessed them and God said to 神就赐福给他们，上帝说：
them be fruitful and multiply and fill 他们成果丰硕，充实
the earth and subdue it and have 地球并且制服它并且有
dominion over the fish of the sea and 统治海洋和海洋的鱼
over the birds of the heaven and over 在天上过的鸟
every living thing that moves on the 每一个生命的东西在移动
earth and God said behold I have given 大地和神说，我已经给了
you every plant yielding seed that is on 你每一棵植物都会产生种子
the face of all the earth and every tree 所有地球和每棵树的脸
with seed in its fruit you shall have 在它的果实种子，你有权
them from for food and every beast of 他们从食物和每一个野兽
the earth and every bird of the heavens 地球和天空中的每一只鸟
and to everything that creeps on the 以及所有在这些 事情上蔓延的东西
earth everything that has the breath of 把所有有气息的东西都接地
life I have given every green plant for 生活中，我已经给每一个绿色植物
food and it was so and God saw 食物，它是如此，上帝看到
everything he had made and behold it was 他所做的一切，看它都是如此
very good and there was evening and 非常好，晚上还有
there was morning the sixth day thus the 那么第六天早上就有了
heavens and the earth were finished and 天堂和地球完成了
all the host of them and on the seventh 所有的主机和第七
day God finished his work that he had 一天上帝完成了他的工作，他有
done and he rested on the seventh day 完成了，他休息了第七天
from all his work that he had done so 从他的一切，他做了这样 的工作
God blessed the seventh day and made it 上帝祝福第七日并成功
holy because on it God rested from all 圣洁，因为上帝从一切中休息
his work that he had done in creation I 他说，他 在创作我所做的工作
like that - you know one of the why did 像那样-你知道这是为什么
a lot of counseling work with people who 很多辅导工作的人谁
were coaching work I guess with people 我想和人们一起进行教练工作
who were fairly spectacular ly 谁是相当壮观的
successful and they were usually 他们通常是成功的
workaholics you know they're the sort of 工作狂你知道他们是那种
people that were like they work 80 hours 这就像人们他们的工作80小时
a week non-stop 一周不停
that's just what they were like and one 这就是他们的样子和一个
of the things we were always trying to 我们一直在努力的东西
figure out was well how much should you 弄清楚你应该多少
work because one answer is you just work 因为你只是工作而已
till you die right I mean he just 直到你死的权利我的意思是他只是
exhaust yourself and well that's not 用尽自己，那不是
that's not a good idea and then you have 这不是一个好主意，然后你有
to figure out why that isn't a good idea 弄清楚为什么这不是一个好主意
it's got to be something like this is 它必须是这样的
that you don't want to do so much work 你不想 做这么多工作
that the amount of work you do 你做的工作量
interferes with the amount of work that 干扰了大量的工作
you could still do right because if you 你仍然可以做对，因为如果你
work like mad for two weeks and then you 像疯狂的工作两个星期，然后你
like you have to lie in a hospital bed 就像你必须躺在病床上一样
for a month that obviously isn't very 一个月显然不是很多
productive so you have to figure out how 生产力，所以你必须弄清楚如何
much you can work diligently and then 你可以努力工作，然后工作
how much you have to recuperate so that 你有多大的休养生息，使得
you can get back up and work again and 你可以恢复并重新工作
you know that's people have basically 你知道这是人们基本上
settled on something like this and given 看中了这样的事情，并给出
it the divine imprimatur that that's one 它是神圣的保证，那是唯一的
way of thinking about it which is well 想着这其中的方法是很好
you can toil away for six days and no 你可以努力工作六天，没有
wonder because you have to work but you 奇怪，因为你必须工作，但你
should rest at least one day out of 应至少休息一天
seven 七
otherwise well you don't appreciate life 否则你不会欣赏生活
that might be part of it and plus I 这可能是它的一部分，加上我
think it's more a matter of iterative 认为这更多是一个迭代的问题
durability you know because one of the 耐久性你知道，因为其中之一
things that defines morality is the 定义道德的东西是
capacity to repeat something right so if 如果能够重复正确的话
something is properly structured in a 一些东西在一个正确的结构中
moral manner then you can do it over and 道德方式，那么你可以做到这一点，并且
over and over again without any 一遍又一遍没有任何
degeneration and so that's kind of like 退化，所以这是有点像
a relationship if your relationship is 一个关系，如果你的关系是
negotiated you can continue to negotiate 谈判你可以继续谈判
it and then you can have a relationship 它然后你可以有一个关系
that lasts for a long time you can do it 持续很长时间你可以做到这一点
today and next week and next month the 今天和下周以及下个月的
next year you could maintain it across 明年你可以维持它
time and this I would say is the wisdom 时间，我会说这是智慧
that's been a so that's been garnered 这一直是一个这样被赢得的
over god only knows what period of time 在只有上帝知道的时候什么时期
to say well look I mean even God needed 说得好看我的意思是即使上帝需要
to take a break and appreciate what was 休息一下，欣赏什么
going on and it's not such a bad thing 继续下去，这不是一件坏事
for people to follow that that pattern 让人们遵循那种模式
and that's a good thing for modern 这对现代人来说是件好事
people to know because we seem to be 人们知道，因为我们似乎是
even though you know we're very wealthy 即使你知道我们非常富有
by historical standards our capacity to 按照历史标准我们的能力
relax isn't exactly what it could be and 放松并不完全是它可能的
I think that's really hard on people 我认为这是真的很难对人
okay so I'm going to go over again the 好吧，所以我要再次过去
idea of the attributes of God I talked 我谈到的上帝属性的想法
about that a little bit last week but I 关于这一点上周，但我
want to return to it because I think 想回到它，因为我认为
it's worth it's worth dwelling on a 值得一提的是它值得一写
little bit because we're trying to 点点，因为我们正在努力
figure out what it is that people were 弄清楚它是什么， 人们
trying to formulate when they were 试图制定他们的时间
formulating these representations and we 制定这些表示和我们
sort of come to the conclusion that 有人得出这样 的结论
they're there there's an attempt to 他们在那里有一个尝试
abstract out the nature of power from 从中抽象出权力的本质
specific aspects of power and there's 有权力的具体方面
some attempt to associate that with 有些人试图把它与之联系起来
consciousness as that which gives rise 意识就是那种产生的意识
to being itself and there's some attempt 成为自己，并有一些尝试
to associate that consciousness with 把意识与... 联系 起来
something that has a cosmic quality 具有宇宙质量的东西
whatever that might mean and and it's a 无论这可能意味着什么， 它是一个
statement that it has a cosmic quality 声明它具有宇宙质量
rather than rather than a discovery it's 而不是发现它
a mere statement that there's that 一个简单的陈述就是这样
there's something about consciousness 有关于意识的东西
that has world generating significance 具有世界意义
and also the implication that it's 还有它的含义
associated with human beings as well 与人类有关
very and it's a very interesting set of 非常，这是一个非常有趣的集合
propositions and I don't believe that 命题，我不相信
they're simply refutable like it's a 它们只是简单的可以反驳的
perfectly coherent argument even though 即使是完全一致的论点
it's primarily made metaphorically and 它主要是隐喻性的
so then once again I want to build up 所以我再次想要建立起来
the 该
the framework of associations around the 周围的协会框架
idea of God one of the things that Freud 上帝的想法是弗洛伊德的事情之一
did when he was interpreting dreams and 他在解释梦境和梦境时做过
it's quite useful you know so if someone 它是非常有用的，你知道，所以，如果有人
comes to me with a dream then I have 我梦到我了
them tell me the whole dream and then I 他们告诉我整个梦，然后告诉我
get them to repeat it line by line and 让他们逐行重复它，
then whenever they say a line and it 然后每当他们说一行和它
there's an object in it or a person or 其中有一个物体或一个人或一个物体
something like that I ask them what that 类似的东西 ，我问他们是什么
makes them remember or what that thing 让他们记住或者说那是什么
means to them or what comes to mind and 对他们意味着或想到什么和
that's the associational technique and 那就是联想技巧和
it's predicated on the idea that your 它的预测是基于你的想法
memory works by association and you know 记忆通过关联工作，你知道
that if you're daydreaming you know you 如果你做白日梦，你就认识你
go from one thing to another like a 从一件事到另一件像一个
conversation does and that you can take 谈话确实如此，你可以采取
an idea that's at the center of a web of 一个位于网络中心的想法
associations and by attracting the 协会通过吸引
associations you can kind of zero in on 你可以把它们放在一起
what the idea might need and then you 这个想法可能需要什么，然后你
expanded that by trying to he called it 通过试图叫他来扩大 这个范围
to amplify the dream by thinking about 通过思考来放大梦想
about narrative or literary or 关于叙事或文学或
mythological similarities that that 神话般的相似之处
might be associated with the narrative 可能与叙述 有关
structure of the dream and and I think 梦想的结构和我想
often that can be unbelievably useful 通常这可能是令人难以置信的有用的
you know and it's like the dream is an 你知道，这就像梦是一个
idea that's trying to come to birth it's 这是试图诞生的想法
partly formulated and then if you 部分制定，然后如果你
discuss it and amplify it it's like you 讨论它并放大它就像你一样
can speed along its transformation into 可以沿着其转化成速度
a more articulated idea and the dream is 一个更明确的想法和梦想是
also something that because your brain 也是因为你的大脑
your mind is trying to with one foot in 你的大脑试图用一只脚进入
the unknown it's trying to formulate 它试图制定的未知数
what's out there in the unknown and to 那里有什么在未知 和
make it concrete but but it doesn't do 使其具体，但它不这样做
that in one fell swoop it doesn't just 这一举不止
take potential and turn it into two 发挥潜力并将其转化为两种
articulated ideas it has to dream up 明确的想法，它必须梦想
what's out there first projects its 那里有什么是第一个项目
imagination out there to get a handle on 想象一下在那里得到处理
what it might be it then that's 那可能是什么呢？
presented in the dream and if you 在梦中呈现，如果你
analyze the dream you can make it more 分析你可以做得更多的梦想
articulate and so that's what we're 口齿伶俐，所以这就是我们的
going to do with the attributes of God 去做与上帝的属性
to build up the representational 建立代表性
structure a little bit so so the 构建那么一点点 ，因此
hypothesis is that God is an abstracted 假设是上帝是一个抽象的
ideal formulated in large part to 非常适合大部分制定
dissociate the ideal from any particular 从任何特定的理想中分离出来
incarnation or man or ruler and the 化身或男人或统治者和
underlying idea there too is that when 那里的基本想法也是那个时候
the ruler becomes the ideal the state 统治者成为理想的状态
turns into the biblical Egypt and the 变成圣经的埃及和圣经
biblical Egypt is a tyranny 圣经的埃及是一个暴政
and so there's a very very solid idea in 所以有一个非常坚实的想法
the Old Testament that I think took 我认为这是旧约
people god only knows how long to figure 人只有上帝知道多久图
out that if you transformed if you 如果你改变了，如果你
confuse the notion of sovereign 混淆主权的概念
sovereignty with the current sovereign 主权与目前的主权
then your culture immediately 那么你的文化立即
degenerated into totalitarian state and 堕落成极权主义国家和地区
turned to stone and that was deadly then 变成了石头， 那是致命的，然后
you were slaves and then the thing was 你是奴隶，那么事情就是这样
going to collapse as well like no matter 即将崩溃，以及像不管
how big and grandiose as soon as the 多大和宏伟的尽快
ruler became the concrete incarnation of 成为统治者的具体化身
the ideal there was no distinction 没有任何区别的理想
between the man and the divine notion of 之间的男人和神圣的概念
the ideal then the society was doomed 那么社会的理想就注定了
and I think that that's a less I think 我认为这不是我想的
that's what I think that's true it's 这就是我认为这是事实
just as simple as that and I think we 就像那样简单，我想我们
saw more than enough evidence of that in 看到比在有足够多的证据
the 20th century and we're certainly 20世纪，我们当然是
seeing the same thing repeating itself 看到同样的事情重演
now when the ruler becomes the ideal the 现在当统治者成为理想的时候了
state turns into the biblical Egypt and 状态变成圣经的埃及和
the biblical Egypt is the archetypal 圣经的埃及是原型
tyranny so what is God like well from 暴政究竟 什么是神井状从
the Christian perspective there's three 基督徒的观点有三个
elements one is seems to have something 元素之一似乎有一些东西
to do with tradition and so that's God 与传统有关，所以这就是上帝
the Father and that's partly the 父亲，这部分是
embodiment I would say of the human 我想说的是人的体现
being because that's an ancient ancient 因为那是一个古老的古代
thing and it's also partly the 事情，这也是部分原因
embodiment of the tradition of human 体现人类的传统
beings which is also a very ancient 这也是一个非常古老的生物
thing and that's the structure as I said 这就是我说的结构
it's the structure that consciousness 这是意识的结构
emerges from that enables us to grapple 从那里出现使我们能够擒拿
with the unknown as such and then 与未知的一样，然后
there's there's the the intermediary 那里是中介
between that and and Christ say that's 在那和之间，基督说这就是
the holy spirit that's that bird and 那是那只鸟的神圣灵魂
that's that's the spirit in a more 这是这是更精神
abstracted sense and I would say that's 抽象的意义，我会说这是
probably as close as Christianity ever 可能跟基督教一样接近
got to the notion of consciousness as 有了意识的概念
such you know disembodied consciousness 这样你就知道了无知的意识
something like that and then there's the 类似的东西， 然后就是这样了
notion of the suffering individual and 受苦个人的概念
and that's that's a very complicated 这是一个非常复杂的问题
idea and it's something like in order 想法和它是如此有序
for so there's this idea an old idea and 因为这个想法是一个古老的想法和
I believe this was originally a Jewish 我相信这原本是犹太人
idea that a something with the 认为某事与
attributes of God omniscience 上帝无所不在的属性
omnipresence and omnipotent lacks 无所不在，无所不能缺乏
something 某物
so it's like a Zen koan it's a really 所以它就像是一个真正的禅宗koan
interesting idea what won the world can 有趣的想法是什么赢得了世界可以
something like that lack and the idea is 就像缺乏这个想法一样
limitation so something that's 限制，东西是
everything lacks limitation and that's 一切都缺乏限制，这是
got that idea like when I first 像我第一次那样得到这个想法
encountered that just blew me away I 遇到那只是把我吹走了我
thought it was such a such a brilliant 认为这是如此的辉煌
brilliant realization that there are 有明确的认识
advantages to not being able to do 优势不能够做
things because partly because it gives 因为部分是因为它给了
you something to do I suppose that's 你想做的事情我想是的
that's a big part of it right is if you 如果你有这个问题，那么这很重要
had everything you wanted that at every 拥有你想要的每一样东西
moment at your fingertips well that 那一刻就在你的指尖上
that's there's there's nothing there's 那就是没有什么
no story and it's funny you know because 没有故事，你知道这很有趣，因为
that happened to Superman you know the 那发生在你知道的超人身上
the cartoon character by the 1980s he 由20世纪80年代的卡通人物，他
could juggle planets and you could 可以玩弄行星， 你可以
bounce like hydrogen bombs off him and 反弹像氢弹干掉他，
be fine and it's like everyone got bored 没问题，就像每个人都感到无聊
because well what we're going to do to 因为我们正在做的是什么
Superman like you love a hydrogen bomb 像你的超人喜欢氢弹
atom and he just brushes it off and like 原子，他只是把它刷掉和喜欢
combs his hair and that's the end of 梳理他的头发， 那就是结束了
that and the whole cartoon series 那和整个卡通系列
basically died because he didn't have 基本上因他没有死亡而死亡
any flaws there's no story without the 任何瑕疵有没有故事，没有
limitation and I think that's an 限制，我认为这是一个
absolutely remarkable idea and so part 绝对非凡的想法和如此的一部分
of the notion of Christ and this is 这是基督的概念
something that I puzzled over for a long 的东西，我困惑了很长一段
time and I learned a lot of this from 时间，我学到了很多 ，从这个
young is that there's IDN Christianity 年轻的是有IDN基督教
that there's consciousness as such which 有这样的意识
which in some sense is eternal it 这在某种意义上是永恒的
stretches from the beginning of the time 从一开始就延伸
to the end of time but it's this 到时间的尽头，但它是这样的
abstracted notion but it lacks a certain 抽象的概念，但它缺乏一定的
kind of reality because it's not 因为不是这样的现实
instantiated somewhere not it's not 实例化某处不是
instantiated in a specific time and 在特定的时间和实例化
place in history and so the idea of the 历史地位和的这样的想法
Sun that the third part of the Trinity 孙三位一体 的第三部分
or one of the three parts of the Trinity 或三位一体的三个部分之一
is the notion that tradition and 是传统和现代的概念
consciousness as such also has to be 意识本身也必须 是
embedded in history in a particular time 在特定的时间内嵌入历史
in place and so there's the archetypal 在原地，所以有原型
embeddedness and that would be the 嵌入性，这将是
Incarnation and that's the perfect man 化身，这是完美的人
right who accepts his mortality and acts 谁接受他的死亡和行为
in a virtuous manner but it's in a it's 在一个良性的方式，但它是在它的
a it's the archetypal story of every 这是每个人的原型故事
individual as well and you know there's 个人以及你知道那里
a very strong strain in Christianity I 基督教I中的一个非常强大的压力
would say this is more pronounced in 会说这更明显
Orthodox Christianity that the that the 东正教基督教认为的那个
purpose of that the proper path of life 那是适当的生活道路的目的
is to take the tradition let's say and 是采取传统让我们说和
the spirit that's associated with 与之相关的精神
consciousness as such and to act it out 这样的意识和行动
in your life in your own personal life 在自己的个人生活中 你的生活
in a manner that's analogous to the 的方式，这类似于
manner in which Christ acted out in his 以何种方式基督在担任了他
life and what that means in part is the 生活，这意味着什么
acceptance of the tragic preconditions 接受悲剧的先决条件
of existence and so that's partly 的存在，这是一部分
betrayal right betrayal by friends and 背叛被朋友和背叛的背叛
by family and by the state and it's 由家庭和国家和它的
partly punishment for our sins that you 部分惩罚我们的罪，你
did not commit as well as the ones you 没有和你一样好
did commit and sometimes that's just a 确实承诺，有时这只是一个
relief but you know the arbitrary nature 救济， 但你知道任意性质
of justice and also the fact of finitude 正义和有限的事实
and the notion is is that your duty 而这个概念就是你的职责
let's say and the way to set things 让我们说，设置事物的方式
right in the cosmos is to accept that as 在宇宙中正是接受那样的
a necessary precondition for being and 作为一个必要的先决条件
to act virtuously despite that and 尽管以合乎道德行事，
that's a very very powerful idea as far 这是一个非常非常强大的主意，因为远
as I'm concerned and I'm also you know 就我而言，我也是你知道的
the world is a weird place and I've seen 这个世界是一个奇怪的地方，我见过
some very strange things in my life and 一些非常奇怪的事情在我的生活中
one of the things that I've seen is that 我见过的其中一件事是
you know I've dealt with some people who 你知道我处理过一些谁
are very let's say that they weren't on 非常让我们说他们不在
a good path let's put it that way and 一个很好的路径，让我们把这种方式和
one of the things that was really 其中一件事是真的
interesting about being around people 有关身边的人很有趣
like that it was like almost like they 这样说，这是几乎像他们一样
were surrounded by a gravitational field 由引力场被包围
of sorts I'm speaking metaphorically 各种各样的我来说比喻
obviously and their worldview was so 显然他们的世界观是如此
warped and twisted that if you came 如果你来了，扭曲和扭曲
within contact of them you all of a 在他们联系你们所有的人
sudden started to play a part in their 突然开始发挥他们的一部分
drama and it was almost inevitable they 戏剧，这几乎是不可避免的
would maneuver and manipulate and 会操纵和操纵和
interpret in a way that made you into 以一种让你进入的方式来解释
the villain in their story no matter 小人在他们的故事中无论如何
what it was that you wanted to do and 这是什么，你想要做的和
unless you've encountered something like 除非你遇到类似的东西
that and many of you probably have you 那个和你们许多人可能都有你
don't know how powerful a pole that is 不知道这杆是多么强大
and so it's certainly possible that 所以这当然是可能的
someone can act in a like like like a 有人能在像像像
gravitational odd object and bend things 引力奇怪的物体和弯曲的东西
around them to fit their narrative 以适应他们的叙述
they're unhappy and tragic narratives 他们不快乐和悲惨的叙述
but I've seen the officer - you know 但我见过那个官员 -你知道
we're people who were aiming upward with 我们是那些一直向上瞄准的人
the best of their ability and because of 最好的能力和正因为
that they had a positive effect on the 他们有 对 有积极作用
people around them and and that that 他们周围，和人们
that that and that ordered things around 那和那个命令周围的东西
them in profound ways and I think it's 他们在深刻的方式，我认为是
an open question 一个开放的问题
the degree to which the cosmos would 在何种程度上的宇宙会
order itself around you properly if you 如果你愿意的话，可以在你周围定点
got yourself together as much as you 让自己和你一样多
could get yourself together like I mean 可以像我的意思一样让自己在一起
we know that things can go very very 我们知道事情会变得非常非常
badly wrong if you if you do things very 如果你真的做得很好，那你就错了
badly wrong there's no doubt about that 毫无疑问，这是毫无疑问的
but the converse is also true if you 但是如果你的话也是相反的
start to sort yourself out properly and 开始给自己适当的梳理和
then you have a beneficial effect on 那么你有一个有利的影响
your family first of all that's going to 首先你要做的就是你的家人
echo down the generations but it also 回声的世代，但它也
spreads out into the community and we 传播到社区和我们
are networked together you know we're 联网在一起，你知道我们是
not lit we're not associated linearly we 没有点亮我们没有线性关联
all affect each other and so it's an 都相互影响，所以它是一个
open question the degree to which acting 开放问题的行为程度
out the notion of the notion that being 理解存在这个概念的概念
is good and the notion that you can 很好，你可以做到这一点
accept its limitations and that you 接受它的局限性和你
should still strive for virtue it's it's 应该继续为美德而努力
an open question how profound effect 一个开放的问题有多深远的影响
that would have on the structure of 这将在结构上
reality if you really chose to act it 现实，如果你真的选择采取行动
out and I've seen things as I said in my 我已经看到了一些事情，正如我在我的讲话中所说的
life that indicate that I do believe 表明我相信的生活
there's a metaphysical element to life 生活中有一种形而上的元素
as well as the rational practical 以及理性的实践
element and I think there are times when 元素，我认为有时候
those two things come together and I've 这两件事情是一起来的，我也是
seen that happen and so I don't think we 看到这种情况发生，所以我不认为我们
know the limits of virtue I don't think 知道我不认为的美德的极限
we know what true virtue could bring 我们知道真正的美德会带来什么
about if we if we aimed at it carefully 关于我们如果我们仔细地瞄准它
and practically and so the notion that 实际上是这样的概念
there's something divine about the 有一些神圣的事情
individual who accepts the conditions of 接受条件的个人
existence and still strives for the good 存在并仍然追求良好
I think that that's a idea that's very 我认为这是一个非常好的想法
much worth paying attention to and I 值得我关注的和我
think the fact that people have 想想人们有这个事实
considered that idea for at least 2,000 认为这个想法至少有2000
years quite seriously is also an 年相当认真也是
indication that there's there's at least 表明至少存在这种情况
something to be thought about with in 需要考虑的事情
relationship to that so that's kind of 与此有关系，这是一种
the trinitarian idea same idea there and 三位一体的想法在那里和
you see this is it's interesting too 你看这是很有趣的太
because you have here you have God the 因为你在这里有你的上帝
Father essentially who's coming out of 父亲本质上是谁出来的
this strange you see this isn't the sky 这个奇怪的你看到这不是天空
exactly and you see this very often in 准确，你经常在看到这
these old pictures it's not exactly the 这些老照片它不完全是
sky whatever the heaven was that that 无论天堂是那样的天空
the people believed in it's something 人们相信它是某种东西
that's it's like the sky opens and 这就像天空开启和
there's a dimension beyond the sky it's 有一个超出天空的维度
something like that and I want to show 类似的东西， 我想展示
you this too just to show you that this 你这个也只是为了告诉你这个
isn't only a Western conception you know 不仅是你知道的西方观念
when it has something to do with mystic 当有事情做与神秘
experience because there's there's a bar 经验，因为有一个酒吧
to satisfy it kind of looks like he has 以满足它看起来像他一样
a hat but that's not a hat that's a 一顶帽子， 但那不是一顶帽子
whole bunch of bodhisattva's going back 菩萨的一大堆回事回
to Eternity right and this hole in the 永恒的权利和这个洞
sky here is like a hole into time and 这里的天空就像一个洞口进入时间和
these things are recurring across time 这些事情在不断发生
it's the eternal recurrence of this of 这是永恒的重演
this redemptive archetype and the sky 这个救赎的原型和天空
opens up and and you can see that thing 打开并且你可以看到那个东西
recurring and recurring and recurring 经常性和循环性以及循环性
same ideas basically that's the blue 基本上同样的想法是蓝色的
Buddha who's a healing who's a healing 佛是一个愈合的治疗者
entity sitting in a mandala which is 实体坐在曼荼罗是
like a representation of paradise and 像天堂的表示和
it's the same idea it's like reality 它就像现实一样
opens up and reveals this image of 打开并揭示这个形象
perfection and so it's a well it's a 完美，所以这是一个很好的
universal conception and and well I 普遍的概念和和我一样
think it's a representation of the 认为这是一个表示
possibility of the metaphysical and the 形而上的和 可能性 的
physical coming together and in some 身体在一起，在一些
sort of in some sort of communication 某种交流方式
it's something like that anyways and I 反正和我一样
mean you have to remember that there's 意味着你必须记住那里
absolutely no doubt that people have 毫无疑问，人们有
metaphysical and religious experiences 形而上学和宗教经验
that's an absolute fact you can induce 这是你可以引发的绝对事实
them chemically you can deduce them 他们化学可以推断出它们
electrochemically lots of people who 电化学很多人谁
have epilepsy have epileptic prodromus 有癫痫有癫痫前驱
that are associated with divine 与神性有关
enlightenment so does the S key for 启蒙运动也是S的关键所在
example he had he had epilepsy and that 例如他有他有癫痫症和那个
was really I think one of the things 我真的认为是其中一件事情
that made him a great author because and 这使他成为伟大的作家，因为和
Dostoyevsky would have this feeling that 陀思妥耶夫斯基会有这种感觉，
he was going to have an epileptic 他将有一个癫痫
seizure and he said that the feeling for 扣押和他说的感觉
him was that the world was opening up 他是这个世界正在开拓
and he was becoming more and more and 他变得越来越多
more enlightened and he was just on the 更开明，他只是在上
verge of grasping the essence of 攫取精华的边缘
existence and then he'd have an 然后他会有一个
epileptic seizure and for the subjective 癫痫发作和主观
feeling was that that much knowledge was 感觉是，很多知识是
just too much for him to bear well you 对他来说太好了，以至于无法忍受你
know you can say well that was a 知道你可以说这是一个
neurological abnormality and fine you 神经异常和罚款
know but God he was Dostoyevsky you know 知道，但上帝他是陀斯妥耶夫斯基你知道
and so you can't just brush that off so 所以你不能只是这样擦掉它
yeah well so that's the Trinitarian idea 是的，所以这是三位一体的想法
fundamentally and if this notion here is 从根本上，如果这个概念是在这里
the notion that well the crosses crosses 十字架穿越的概念
a funny thing because the cross marks 一个有趣的事情，因为十字标记
the center you know and it's an X and 你知道的中心，它是一个X和
the X is the center of the world like X是世界的中心
the X that the Cathedral is and it's the 大教堂所在的X，它就是这样
center of the world it's where you are 世界的中心，它就是你所在的地方
because as a consciousness you're the 因为你是一个意识
center of the world and that center of 世界的中心和该中心
the world is a place of betray 世界是一个背叛的地方
no and suffering in limitation that's 没有和受到限制
that's exactly what it is and the 这正是它和现在的情况
question is well given that and given 问题很好给予和给予
the fact that you know it what the hell 事实上你知道它到底是什么
are you supposed to do about it and what 你应该做些什么？
that represents 代表
I believe that's coil with that 我相信那是线圈
representation implies is that you're 表示意味着你是
supposed to voluntarily accept that and 应该自愿接受和
then move forward um well in good faith 然后善意地向前移动
and with courage that's the notion and 勇气就是这个概念和
that you're supported you're supported 你受到支持， 你受到支持
by your tradition and that's why you 根据你的传统，这就是你的原因
need your tradition to that's why you 需要你的传统，这就是你的原因
need to be embedded in your tradition 需要融入你的传统
because without that without the support 因为如果没有这种支持的话
let's say of your father and I mean that 让我们来谈谈你的父亲，我的意思是说
both practically and metaphysically 实际上和形而上
without that behind you without the 没有这样的背后你没有
knowledge of you as a both a biological 认识你既是一种生物
and the cultural creature without that 没有这个的文化生物
depth of knowledge you can't hey you 你不能嘿嘿的知识深度
don't have the courage to do it because 没有勇气去做，因为
you don't know what you are what you 你不知道你是什么
could be and so without that because 可能是这样，没有这个，因为
you're a historical creature you know 你是一个你认识的历史动物
what students ask me sometimes why study 学生有时问我为什么学习
history it's like well because history 历史就像历史一样
is about you that's why it's like 是关于你的，这就是它的原因
history tells you who you are you can't 历史告诉你，你是谁你不能
tell who you are because you only live a 告诉你是谁，因为你只活一个
little while how the hell can you figure 一会儿，你怎么能想到
out who you are so you need all this 你是谁，所以你需要这一切
collected wisdom and all this dream like 收集的智慧和所有这些梦想
information and all this mythology and 信息和所有这些神话和
all this narrative to inform you about 所有这些叙述都会告诉你
what you are beyond what you see of 你超出了你所看到的
yourself and you know you're pummeled 你自己，你知道你被殴打
down and people picked on you and 下来，人们选择你和你
there's 50 things about you that are 有关于你的 50 件事是
horrible and you know you've got a 可怕的，你知道你有一个
self-esteem problem you're sort of 你有点自尊心问题
hunched over and you've got all these 弯腰，你已经拥有了所有这些
problems you know and so it's not easy 你知道的问题，所以这并不容易
to see let's say the divinity that lurks 看看我们说潜伏的神性
behind that and unless you're aware of 背后的，除非你是知道的
the heroic stories of the past and the 过去和未来的英雄故事
metaphysics of consciousness let's say I 意识的形而上学让我们说我
don't think that you can have the 不要以为你可以拥有
courage to regard yourself as the sort 有勇气把自己当成那种
of creature that can stand up underneath 能站起来的生物
that intense existential burden and move 这种激烈的存在负担和举动
forward in encourage and grace and of 在鼓励和恩典中前进
course that's part of the reason that 当然这是这个原因的一部分
I'm talking about these biblical stories 我正在谈论这些圣经故事
and it's nine-thirty so we're going to 和它的九点半，所以我们打算
have to stop 不得不停下来
[Applause] [掌声]
[Music] [音乐]
okay so we're going to stop exactly at 好的，所以我们要停下来
10:00 tonight because that that's the 今晚10:00，因为那是那个
deal with the theater people and so and 处理剧院的人等等
besides I'll be out of anything 除了我什么都没有了
intelligent to say by that point 聪明地说，这一点
certainly so while it needs to go 当然，它需要去
through one story so that was good 通过一个故事，这是很好的
[Applause] [掌声]
[Music] [音乐]
okay let's give everyone like to you 好吧，让我们给大家喜欢你
know just a few seconds to settle down 只需几秒钟就可以安顿下来
and and everyone who wants to leave can 并和大家谁愿意请假
leave so thank you for all for coming by 请离开，谢谢你的光临
the way I'm constantly amazed at this 顺便我在这个不断惊讶
you know everybody comes and listens to 你知道大家都来了， 听
this because you know it's just well 这是因为你知道这很好
strange let's put it that way so so far 奇怪，让我们把这种方式，使迄今
it's been fun though so that's good okay 这很好玩，虽然这样很好
let's go I hope that works hi dr. 让我们走吧我希望工程嗨博士。
Pearson I was a raised Catholic and 皮尔逊，我是一个天主教徒和
anytime there was a bit of a an inherent 任何时候都有一种固有的
contradiction let's call it in the 我们把它称之为矛盾
document to the Bible it would be 这是圣经的文件
referred to as a mystery and there's one 被称为一个谜，有一个
mystery I've always kind of wondered 我一直怀疑的神秘之处
about and it's very important to Genesis 关于它，这对Genesis来说非常重要
how do you how do you deal with a 你怎么处理一个
perfect God or the conception of a 完美的神或的概念
perfect God who by nature is incapable 完美的神自然谁是无能
of an imperfect design sorry are 一个不完美的设计见谅。
incapable of a perfect design so what I 不能完美设计，使我
mean by that is many religions present 由意思是许多宗教存在
for example good and evil as separate 例如善与恶分开
deities that pre-existed simultaneously 同时存在的神祗
what's interesting though Christianity 基督教有趣的是什么
is that Lucifer the embodiment of evil 是路西法邪恶的体现
in the Christian religion is an 在基督教是一个
outgrowth of God and is sometimes Milton 上帝的产物，有时是米尔顿
for example presents him as a rebel 举例来说他是一个叛逆者
against his interpretation of God's 反对他对上帝的解释
tyranny right another example you know 暴政吧另一个例子你知道
we had didn't touch on even today but in 我们甚至在今天也没有触及， 但在
Paradise a supposedly perfect Garden a 天堂是一个理想的完美花园
perfect design is infiltrated again by 完美的设计再次被渗透
that evil outgrowth of a so-called 那 所谓的 邪恶产物
perfect God so from a psychological 从心理上完善上帝
perspective do you think there's a 你认为有一个视角
significance to this presentation of 对此介绍的意义
perfection yet the contradictory flaws 完美还有矛盾的缺陷
that are sort of naturally part of that 这是自然而然的一部分
perfection quote-unquote oh so good 完美报价 - 引用非常好
that's a good simple question we're 这是一个很好的简单问题
starting good see young Carl young he 开始看好年轻的卡尔年轻的他
was kind of manichaean in his approach 在他的做法样的摩尼教
and he tended towards thinking that evil 他倾向于认为邪恶
in some sense was a separate entity you 在某种意义上是你的独立实体
know and I thought about that for a long 知道，我想了很久
time because there's a potency about 时间，因为有一个有力的
evil that just can't be brushed 邪恶，不能被掠过
way and I mean I mean this most 方式，我的意思是我的意思是最
practically as I've said for people in 实际上就像我为人们所说的那样
my clinical practice I've dealt with 我处理过的临床实践
many people who are touched by 很多人被感动
malevolence and there's no other way of 恶意， 并没有其他办法
stating it properly and this happens a 正确地说出来，发生这种情况
lot to people who have post-traumatic 很多人有创伤后
stress disorder like they encountered 像他们遇到的压力症
someone that wanted to hurt them for the 有人想为他们伤害他们
sake of hurting them you know it wasn't 为了伤害他们，你知道它不是
some misunderstanding you can forget 一些误解你可以忘记
about that it wasn't that at all and so 关于那根本不是那样的
to to deny the reality of evil in some 去否认一些邪恶的现实
sense I think is the ultimate in naivety 感觉我认为是天真的终极
even though it's a word that you won't 即使这是一个你不会的词
hear used for example very often in 听到很多时候都用在例如
universities anymore but that I just 大学了，但我只是
thought just I just can't understand 我以为我无法理解
that at all but but I thought about that 除了但我想过这个之外
a lot and and so I'm going to kind of 了很多，所以我要那种
answer that question by hitting it 通过点击来回答这个问题
scattershot 漫无
the first thing is is that there's an 的第一件事就是是 ，有一个
idea and that this happens in Milton 想法和这发生在米尔顿
this cut that comes across in Milton 这在米尔顿遇到的切割
that distance from God is hell right 那距离上帝的距离是对的
that hell doesn't actually have any I 这个地狱实际上并没有任何我
know it's ambivalent in Milton but but 知道它在米尔顿是矛盾的，但是
the fundamental claim seems to be that 根本的主张似乎是这样的
the farther you get from God the more 你从上帝那里得到的越远
it's hell and then there's another idea 它是地狱，然后还有另一个想法
that Milton's Satan who's Lucifer the 米尔顿的撒旦是路西法的
bringer of light right he's God's 光的使者权利他是上帝的
highest angel gone most wrong and I kind 最高的天使走错了，我善良
of think about him as the spirit of 把他当作精神来思考
rationality of intelligence it's not 它不是智力的合理性
because I'm not an admirer of 因为我不是的崇拜者
intelligence because hurray for 因为智力的欢呼
intelligence but one of the things that 智力，但其中的一件事情
that Milton seemed to cotton onto before 米尔顿似乎之前已经穿上了
the rise of modern totalitarian States 现代极权国家的崛起
was that intellect has the capacity to 是智力有能力
fall in love with its own creations and 爱上它自己的创作和
to elevate them to the highest place 把他们提升到最高的地方
which is basically a totalitarian claim 这基本上是一个极权主张
it's like what I know is everything that 这就像我所知道的一切
needs to be known and if it was only 需要知道，如果只是
manifest in the world the world would 在世界上表现出来
become a utopia and I also think that 成为一个乌托邦，我也这么认为
we'll talk about this next week I also 我们也会在下周再谈这个问题
think that that's the core idea behind 认为这是背后的核心理念
the Tower of Babel remember the Tower of 巴别塔记得塔的塔
Babel is raised by human beings so that 巴别塔是由人类，使凸起
the pinnacle will hit heaven and so it's 巅峰将击中天堂，所以它是
the idea that we can build a structure 我们可以建立一个结构的想法
that makes the transcendent unnecessary 这使得超越是不必要的
and so ok so there's those two things 所以好的，这是两件事
then there's there's an idea of free 那么有一个免费的想法
will that's associated with it too and 那也是与它相关联的
it seems to me that in order for there 在我看来，为了那里
to be good there has to be evil and so I 要好，必须有邪恶，所以我
I think the answer is something like 我认为答案是类似的
this is that in order for there to be 这是为了让那里是
being there has to be limitation in 在那里必须有限制
order for their good to be good there 为了他们的好在那里好
has to be the possibility of evil I 必须是邪恶的可能性我
think the right path is to exist such 认为正确的道路是存在这样的
that the possibility of evil remains 邪恶的可能性依然存在
open but that you choose the good and I 开放， 但你选择好，我
don't think that evil per se is built 不要以为恶本身是建
into the structure of the world I do 进入 世界我做 的结构
think that that's human I think that 认为那是我认为的人
evil is human and I think it's 邪恶是人类， 我认为它是
understandable 可理解
I did a lecture that's online about the 我做了一个关于网络的讲座
distinction between evil and tragedy and 罪恶和悲剧之间的区别
tragedy seems to be built into the 悲剧似乎被建成了
structure of the world and perhaps you 世界的结构 ，或许你
can blame God for that I mean it doesn't 可以责怪上帝，因为我的意思是没有
seem to me that it's your fault that 在我看来，这是你的错
there earthquakes for example but but it 例如有地震，但只有它
is all not obvious to me either that 这对我来说都不明显
it's tragedy that takes the spirit out 这是一个让精神出来的悲剧
of people I think that human beings are 的人我认为人类是
actually equipped to deal with tragedy 实际上装备处理悲剧
but we're not equipped to deal with 但我们没有装备处理
malevolence that destroys people and so 恶意破坏人们等等
I think that I think that metaphysically 我认为， 我认为这是形而上的
speaking the world is structured so that 说世界的结构是这样的
people have a choice between good and 人们有好的选择和选择
evil and that so then the next question 邪恶和那么下一个问题
is why do we have a choice and that 这就是为什么我们有选择的原因
that's where my knowledge runs out I 这就是我的知识用完了我
don't I don't like the alchemists for 我不是不喜欢炼金术士
example speculated that and then the 示例推测， 然后
Orthodox Christians also followed this 东正教徒也跟着这个
line of reasoning is that human beings 推理线是人类
in some sense are furthering creation by 在某种意义上正在进一步创造
our actions and by our choices and I 我们的行为以及我们的选择和我
think there's something to that it's 觉得有些事情是这样的
like it's like creation is unfinished in 喜欢它像创作是在未完成
some sense and that we're participating 有些意义， 我们正在参与
in in moving it in whatever direction we 在向我们的方向移动它
it is that we want to move it and part 这是我们想要移动它的一部分
of that is that we have freewill and 那是我们有自由意志和
part of that is that we have the choice 其中一部分是我们有选择
between good and evil and that's also 正邪之间说的也是
it's all associated with with the 这一切都与
significance maybe the cosmic 意义也许是宇宙
significance of our lives and I blood 我们的生命意义和我的血液
that strikes me as plausible and and I 这让我觉得似乎合情合理，而我
think that the weight of responsibility 认为责任的重要
that people feel existentially is an 人们觉得存在是一个
indication of that so that's about the 这是关于这个的指示
best I could do with that so and it 最好的，我可以用这个和那个做
seems the way you're describing it it's 似乎是你描述它的方式
built into at least the text that you 至少内置于您的文本中
presented because one of the other 因为其中一个而出现
things I had noticed was God 我注意到的是上帝
consistently describes creation as good 始终如一地描述创作
right well rates light it's good he 好的利率点亮它是很好的
creates dark it's good 创造黑暗它是好的
laughter he creates things in ounces 他用盎司创造了笑声
that he creates man and woman and 他创造了男人和女人
announces that they have dominion ya 宣布他们已经统治了你
over those things and can use them yeah 在那些事情上，可以使用它们
and it might be something lost the 这可能是失去了一些东西
translation but that is described as 翻译， 但被描述为
very good as soon as that Dominion is 非常好，只要这个统治是
brought into it yes yeah it might speak 带入它是的，它可能会说话
to that notion of furthering yeah great 到那个进一步的想法是伟大的
and here's something interesting too and 这里还有一些有趣的事情
we'll develop this a lot is that you see 我们会开发这很多是你看到的
when Adam and Eve eat the fruit 当亚当和夏娃吃水果时
the snake gives them the fruit the first 蛇首先给了他们果子
thing that happens is their eyes are 发生的事情是他们的眼睛
opened okay and to me that means that 开好，对我那 意味着
while they've woken up right there's 而他们已经醒了正确的有
been an increment in their consciousness 他们的意识增加了
and the next thing that happens is that 接下来发生的事情就是这样
they recognize that they're naked okay 他们认识到他们裸体没事
and to recognize that you're naked is to 并认识到你是裸体的
recognize that you're vulnerable and 承认你是脆弱的
human beings are strange creatures it 人类是奇怪的生物
because most animals are like this and 因为大多数动物都是这样的
they're protected but not us like our 他们受到保护， 但不是我们喜欢我们的
most vulnerable parts are displayed for 显示最脆弱的部分
harm and for everyone to observe right 伤害和让大家观察的权利
so we've got that sort of bipedal 所以我们有这种双足
self-consciousness built into us but 建立在我们身上的自我意识
what's really interesting is that when 什么是真正有趣的是，当
Adam and Eve realized that they're naked 亚当和夏娃意识到自己是裸体的
it's the same moment that they know the 这是他们知道的同一时刻
difference between good and evil and 正邪 之间的区别
that our God that just that just I just 我们的上帝，只是我只是
ground away on that for years trust so 多年来一直信任这一点
what the hell's what's going on here 这到底是怎么回事？
what's the relationship between 之间有什么关系
consciousness knowledge of nakedness and 意识知识的裸体和意识
the knowledge of good and evil and then 善恶之知
I think I think I figured it out I think 我想， 我想我想通了，我认为
I think it was that you see when you 我认为这是你看到你的时候
know that you're vulnerable and they 知道你是脆弱的，他们
also develop knowledge of death right so 还开发了死亡的知识权利，使
there's deep knowledge of vulnerability 对漏洞有深刻的了解
and they get embarrassed about that they 他们对此感到尴尬
cover themselves up right so that's 把自己掩盖起来就是了
culture so it's a very profound shock 所以这是一个非常深刻的冲击
for them to recognize that they're naked 让他们认识到自己是裸体的
it even makes Adam hide from God many 它甚至使亚当躲避上帝许多
developed the knowledge of good and evil 发展了善与恶的知识
well I think it's because you see human 以及我认为这是因为你看到了人类
beings have this peculiar capacity that 众生有这种奇特的能力
no other creature has which is I know 没有其他生物拥有我所知道的
how I can be hurt because I'm aware of 我知道怎么会受到伤害
my own limitations painfully aware and 我自己的局限性痛苦地意识到和
now because I know how I can be hurt I 现在，因为我知道我怎么可以伤害我
know how you can be hurt and I can take 知道你会受到怎样的伤害，我可以接受
advantage of that and that's I think how 这一点的 优势，这就是我的想法
evil enters the world that's what it 邪恶进入了这个世界
looks like to me it's like I got this 看起来像我这就像我得到这个
expansion of knowledge it says in 它扩大了它所说的知识
Genesis that that that gives people 创世纪那给人的那个
another attribute of divinity knowing 神性知识的另一个属性
the difference between good and evil it 善与恶的区别呢
has nothing to do with animals and 与动物无关
nothing to do with Adam and Eve prior to 没有事先跟亚当和夏娃
having your eyes open but that the 睁大你的眼睛，但那个
cosmos switches when that self 当宇宙自我切换时
consciousness manifests itself and 意识体现自己
that's when the possibility of evil 那是邪恶的可能性
enters the world it's something like 进入这个世界就像是一样
that and that's also echoed by the 这和那也是一致的
intimate relationship between the snake 蛇之间的亲密关系
in the Garden of Eden and Satan which is 在伊甸园和撒旦这是
we're going to because that's what 我们会去那，因为那是
that's a very strange associations like 这是一个非常奇怪的协会
this snake also becomes the adversary of 这条蛇也成为了对手
being and I think that's I'll jump very 正在和我认为这是我会跳得非常
quickly into that but I think that's 很快进入，但我认为这是
because you know there's the snake that 因为你知道有蛇是
bites you in the jungle and then there's 在丛林中咬你，然后就是了
the snake that lives in your enemy and 那条生活在你的敌人之中的蛇
then there's the snake that lives in 再有就是， 生活在蛇
your family if you if you banish the 你的家人，如果你，如果你驱逐
enemy to the Netherlands and then 敌人到荷兰然后
there's the snake that lives in you if 如果你的蛇存在于你身上
you remove yourself from your family and 你将你自己从家庭 中解救出来
that snake that's in you right that's 那条蛇就在你的右边
that's a that's a psychological 那是一种心理
phenomena that's equivalent to 现象相当于
transcendent evil itself the thing that 超越邪恶本身的东西
inhabits every single person that's why 居住每一个人，这就是为什么
there's that association between the 那里有那种关联
snake and Satan and that's why I think 蛇和撒旦，这就是我想的原因
that people have this it's associated 人们有这个关联
with their knowledge of ulnar ability 与他们的尺寸能力的知识
that gives us this constant capacity for 这给了我们这个恒定的容量
for evil being imagine if your medieval 因为邪恶正在想象你的中世纪
torturer 施刑
you know I mean people don't generally 你知道我的意思是人们通常不会
imagine that sort of thing but but but 想象那种事情，但但是
people were maybe evil torturers and 人们可能是邪恶的折磨人和
they were very good at what they did and 他们非常善于处理他们所做的事情
the only way that you could be a 唯一的办法，你可能是一个
torturers to know what would hurt you 酷刑者知道什么会伤害你
right and so you exploit your own 正确的，所以你利用你自己的
vulnerable exploit the knowledge of your 脆弱的利用你的知识
own vulnerability to bring pain into the 自己的脆弱带来的痛苦
world and I don't think that you can lay 世界，我不认为你可以躺下
that precisely at God's feet now people 那正是在上帝脚下现在的人们
have been arguing about that for a very 一直在争论这个问题
long time but but my question the 很长一段时间，但但我的问题
question for me that arose from that is 对我来说这个问题是由此产生的
all right fine like tragedy you can lay 一切都好， 就像你可以躺下的悲剧
that at God's feet well if we didn't 如果我们不这样做，那么在上帝的脚下
bring additional evil into the world 给这个世界带来更多的罪恶
could we tolerate the tragedy of being 我们能容忍存在的悲剧吗？
without becoming corrupt and I think 没有变成腐败，我想
generally the answer to that is yes 一般来说，答案是肯定的
because I've seen people react quite 因为我看到人们的反应很强烈
heroically to the arbitrary burdens of 英勇地向任意负担
their life but malevolence may I'm not 他们的生活，但恶意可能我不是
late that lays them low it lays them low 迟到，使他们低，它使他们低
and it seems to be to be nothing but a 它似乎只是一个
destructive force and I do believe as 破坏力，我相信是
well and I think you see this in the 好吧，我想你看到了
Cain and Abel story that the root of 该隐和阿贝尔的故事的根源
malevolence is the 恶意是
desire for revenge against God for for 渴望对神的复仇 为
creation itself and I mean I've read 创作本身，我的意思是我读过
terrible things written by terrible 可怕的事情写得很糟糕
people trying to get to the bottom of 人们试图去 底部
things and I mentioned to call them 事情和我提到要打电话给他们
bunny killers for example and it's clear 兔子杀手，例如，很明显
all you have to do is go read what they 你所要做的就是去读他们的东西
wrote what they were doing was taking 写了他们正在做的事情
revenge against God they knew that if it 报复上帝他们知道如果它
wasn't unconscious that they've been 并不是无意识的，他们一直在
dwelling on this for months plotting 对此进行几个月的绘图
their revenge and it was revenge against 他们的报复，这是报复
being itself for the crime of being so 本身就是这样的罪行
thank you hi doctor you'd said the when 谢谢你嗨医生你会说什么时候
God saw that it was good you read that 上帝看见你看，这是好的
as potentially well I might be better 作为潜在的好，我可能会更好
than nothing 没什么
and the story in Genesis it's bracketed 和创世纪中的故事它被括起来
by days which aren't necessarily literal 通过不一定是字面的日子
days young the original word you know 天你年轻的原始单词你知道
but it's also bracketed by and he saw it 但它也被括起来，他看到了它
was good you know at the end of the day 在一天结束的时候你是很了解的
so my question is is there something 所以我的问题是有什么
more profoundly happening there between 其中更深刻的发生
this profundity of speaking into 这种深入的说话
existence the way you know the start is 存在你知道开始的方式
to this observation the seeing that it's 看到这是这个观察
good and are we is God modeling 好，我们是神的造型
consciousness is there a little more 意识是有一点
there for us to grapple with okay so so 在那里我们可以好好地对付
more for us to grapple with in what way 更让我们以何种方式来对付
in the sense that we have this amazing 在这个意义上，我们有这个惊人的
this insight of speaking things forth 这种说话事物的洞察力
but you'd also comment on consciousness 但你也会评论意识
as until something's observed or until 直到某事物被观察到或直到
so there until it's seen so when God 所以在那里，直到神的时候看到
sees that that creation was good is 看到那个创作是好的
there there's kind of this bracketing 那里有一种包围
between the bringing forth through the 通过之间的带来
spoke we you know through the word 我们通过这个词发言
through Jesus okay okay that's good I 通过耶稣好吧好吧，这是好的我
see what you mean okay well I think I 看你的意思好吧我想我
think what that is is that I think okay 想想那是我认为没关系的
so it's perfectly reasonable from an 所以它从一个完全合理的
archetypal and psychological perspective 原型和心理学视角
to consider the idea of the word 考虑这个词的想法
equivalent to the spoken truth 相当于说出的真相
I mean price makes that claim in the New 我的意思是价格在新的版本中有这样的要求
Testament that he's the truth right 遗嘱他说的是对的
and embodied and so then you can 并体现，然后你可以
logically you can derive from that the 在逻辑上，你可以从该 派生
idea that if things are spoken into 想法，如果事情被说成
being through truth then they're good 通过真相，然后他们很好
and so yeah I think that that 所以是的，我认为那是
association exists and I think that 协会存在，我认为
that's well I also think that that's 这很好，我也认为这是
that's that in some sense the deepest 那在某种意义上就是最深的
claim of faith I believe that because I 我相信，因为我
think that I think you have to make a 认为我认为你必须做出一个
decision in your life as far as I can 尽我所能决定你的生活
tell and I think Kierkegaard knew this 告诉我 ， 我认为克尔凯郭尔知道这一点
more clearly than anyone else I've ever 更比谁都清楚，我曾经
read and that is that if being is good 阅读，那就是如果是好的
then an honest relationship with being 然后与存在的诚实关系
also has to be good and then if you have 也必须是好的，然后如果你有
an honest relationship with being then 与当时的诚实关系
you're going to speak the truth and then 你要说出 真相，然后
I think what you have to decide is that 我觉得你有什么决定的是，
speaking if you speak the truth then 说话， 如果你说实话
what happens is good regardless of what 不管发生了什么是好的什么
happens and that that's that that's the 恰好那就是这样这就是
rub of faith and I think that's 摩擦的信念，我认为这是
something that Kerry could guard 克里可以保护的东西
wrestled with you know and I mean I'm 与你搏斗知道，我的意思是我
trying to think if I can provide an 试着想如果我能提供一个
example about about that and anything 关于这个和任何事情的例子
and easily and quickly well I guess it's 并且很容易，很快，我猜是这样
partly because it's partly because you 部分原因是部分原因在于你
can live your life two ways you can you 可以以两种方式过你的生活，你可以
can you can use your language to 你能用你的语言吗？
manipulate you can use your language as 操纵你可以使用你的语言
a tool to get what you want but the 一个工具来获得你想要的东西，但是
problem with that is that that assumes 问题就在于这个假设
that you know what you want and that 你知道你想要什么和那个
you're right and that's a problem 你是对的，这是一个问题
because there's lots of things you don't 因为有很多事情你不知道
know and if you get what you want you 知道，如果你得到你想要的东西
may find a that you didn't really want 可能会发现你并不是真的想要
it and be that you're not the person 它并且是你不是这个人
that started the journey towards that 这开始了征程实现这一
that happens a lot to people especially 这对人们来说尤其如此
when they use their language in a 当他们在a中使用他们的语言时
manipulative way and so the alternative 操纵性的方式等等
seems to be and I think this is one of 似乎是，我认为这是其中之一
the lessons for example that's laid out 例如， 这些教训已经 列出
in the movie Pinocchio which happens to 在电影匹诺曹发生
be a kind of archetypal favorite of mine 是一种矿的原型喜爱
is but part of the act of faith so let's 只是信仰行为的一部分，所以让我们来看看
say and then I wouldn't say Christian 说，然后我不会说基督教
faith necessarily I would say faith in 信仰必然会说我相信
being itself is is the decision it's 本身就是它的决定
like the decision that God is good the 像上帝是善的决定
decision is there's no better way to 决定是没有更好的办法
bring better being into being than to 带来更好的存在， 而不是
speak the truth and I do think that's 说实话，我确实认为这是事实
accurate I think that's a very wise 准确我认为这是一个非常明智的
observation I think that's echoed in 观察我认为这是相呼应的
that for 对于
story first of all the active speech and 故事首先是积极的讲话和
second the observation that the 第二，观察到的
consequence was good so yeah yeah thank 后果很好，所以耶耶谢谢
you 您
[Music] [音乐]
good morning citizen Peterson first I 早上好公民彼得森第一我
have a bunch of questions and the one 有一堆问题和一个问题
that have them answered immediately like 让他们立即回答
you have a post on Quora in which you 你在Quora上有一篇关于你的文章
encourage all children to incur 鼓励所有的孩子出现
skateboarding injuries but but also 滑板伤害但也
stated in this post well you wrote that 在这篇文章中写道，你写的是这样的
do not try to rescue someone who does 不去救谁 做
not want to be rescued and be very 不希望被救出，并很
careful about rescuing someone who does 小心拯救谁 做
and can you reconcile this with what you 并且你能和你一致吗？
stated about transcendent morality and 陈述关于超越的道德和
the heroic impulse that I guess men are 我猜男人是英雄冲动
supposed to be born with ok ok ok so 应该是天生的好吧好吧好吧
while the skates the skateboarding 而滑板滑板
question is I wrote I have a book coming 问题是我写了一本书，我有一本书
out in 2018 called 12 rules for life and 在2018年出台了12条生命和规则
antidote to chaos and one of the 解决混乱和其中的一个
chapters in there is from that Korra 那里的章节来自科拉
posting and it's called don't bother 发布，它被称为不打扰
children when they're skateboarding and 孩子们在滑板滑板时
it's sort of associated with what I'd 这与我的想法有关
said earlier about parkour for example 比如早些时候说过关于跑酷
is that you know kids need to go out and 是，你知道孩子们需要走出去，
push themselves against danger because 推动自己抵御危险，因为
that's what life is is pushing yourself 这就是生活正在推动自己
against danger and and when you see kids 对抗危险和当你看到孩子时
doing things that are dangerous but 做 危险的事情，但是
spectacular then you kind of have a 壮观，那么你有一种
moral obligation to back the hell off 道义上的责任，以支持地狱
and let them experiment with their own 让他们尝试一下自己的
mortality because you can't keep them 死亡率，因为你无法保留它们
safe the best thing you can do is make 安全最好的事情是你能做的
them able and courageous and I would say 他们能干而勇敢，我会说
that that's a more difficult lesson 这是一个更难的教训
generally speaking for mothers to learn 一般来说为母亲学习
than for fathers to learn and that was 比父亲学习和那是
Freud's fundamental observation but it's 弗洛伊德的基本观察，但它
it's absolutely crucial and so I've seen 这绝对是至关重要的，所以我见过
kids do I mean you know you can 孩子们， 我的意思是你知道你可以
obviously be a fool on the skateboard 显然是滑板上的傻瓜
although the distinction between being a 虽然区分是一个
fool and developing yourself is not as 愚蠢和发展自己不是
clear as people might like to imagine 人们可能想象得很清楚
and and when kids are out there with no 当孩子们在外面没有
helmets and doing dangerous things it's 头盔和做危险的事情是
like there's a part of me that of course 就像我当然有一部分那样
is very worried about it but there's 非常担心，但有
another part of me that admires it very 我非常欣赏它的另一部分
much because they're practicing what 很大程度上是因为他们在练习什么
they need to practice in order to cope 他们需要练习才能应付
with the world ok so there's that now 与世界好，所以现在就是这样
the other one was risky 另一个是有风险的
and evil yeah well I got this partly 和邪恶是啊，我得到了这部分
from Carl Rogers you know because Rogers 从卡尔罗杰斯你知道，因为罗杰斯
was either clinician very famous 要么是临床医生非常有名
clinician and and he he was he was a 临床医生和他，他是他是一个
Christian missionary to begin with but 基督教传教士开始但是
he didn't end up that way but he was 他并没有以这种方式结束，但他是
very interested in the utility of 对实用性非常感兴趣
listening as a as a means of redemption 倾听作为一种救赎手段
essentially and listening by the way is 本质上和倾听的方式是
if you have someone that you know that 如果你有一个你知道的人
has a problem the best thing you can 有一个问题，你可以做的最好的事情
often do is listen to them if they're 经常做的就是听他们的，如果他们
actually trying to communicate because 实际上试图沟通，因为
people configure themselves through 人们通过自我配置
speech and most people can't think and I 演讲和大多数人无法思考和我
don't mean that in a mean way I mean the 并不意味着在一个简陋的方式，我的意思是
way they think is by talking and they 他们认为是通过谈话和他们的方式
can't talk unless they have someone to 除非有人来， 否则不能说话
talk to and it's partly because they're 谈话，这部分是因为他们
bouncing the idea off them and seeing if 反弹他们的想法，看看是否
it makes sense and seeing how the person 这是有道理的，看到这个人是如何
responds so listening is a great thing 回应如此倾听是件好事
but Rogers was also interested in the in 但罗杰斯也有意在
the preconditions for having a 有一个先决条件
redemptive relationship and that could 救赎关系， 这可能
be a therapeutic relationship or an 是一种治疗关系还是一种治疗
intimate relationship and one of the 亲密关系和其中之一
things he claimed was that unless the 他声称的事情是，除非
person was aiming upward there was 有人向上瞄准了
nothing you could do about it 你无能为力
that and that seemed to be associated 这和那似乎是相关的
with this idea of that initial choice 有了这个初步选择的想法
say between good and evil and saying 说善恶之间，说
when someone comes to therapy they've 当有人来治疗他们
already done something they've already 已经做了一些他们已经
said I have a problem conceivably I 说我可以想象我有一个问题
could fix it and I need to do something 可以修复它， 我需要做些事情
about it and then so half the work is 关于它，然后这么一半的工作
already done by the time they show up 在他们出现的时候已经完成了
because they've already said well things 因为他们已经说了好话
aren't as good as they could be and I 不如他们能和我一样好
could do something about it the question 可以为这个问题做点事情
is can you do anything about someone who 你能做任何关于某人的事吗？
isn't at that state and my observation 是不是在这个状态和我的观察
and this is Rogers observation as well 这也是罗杰斯的观察
is that you can't I think you can serve 是， 你不能，我认为你可以成为
by example but until the person has 通过例子， 但直到这个人
decided on their own that they're wrong 他们自己决定他们错了
that's why they're suffering if there's 这就是为什么他们如果有痛苦的原因
something wrong about what they're doing 他们在做什么错了
and that they want to fix it I don't I 而且他们要 修复它，我不要我
think that even trying to hammer against 认为即使试图殴打
that often makes it worse so and I know 这往往使情况变得更糟， 所以我知道
that Solzhenitsyn when he was talking 索尔仁尼琴在他说话的时候
about the communist ideologue the really 关于共产主义的意识形态真的
hardcore communist ideologue that were 铁杆共产主义者的意识形态
eaten up by the Gulag Archipelago system 由古拉格群岛系统吃掉
you know sort of devoured by their own 你知道自己被吞噬了
he saw the same thing was that until 直到他看到同样的事情
they were willing to admit that 他们愿意承认这一点
something was wrong with the manner in 什么是错用的方式
which they had construed the world that 他们已经解释了这个世界
it had resulted in their own demise 它导致了他们自己的死亡
that there was actually no way of 那实际上没有办法
communicating with them they're in kind 与他们沟通，他们是实物
of an authoritarian bubble and so so I I 一个专制泡沫等等II
don't think that so even if you orient 即使你定位，也不要这么想
yourself as an archetypal hero there's 你自己是一个原型英雄
no way you can get through that barriers 你无法通过这些障碍
well I think that that's part of the 以及我认为这是其中的一部分
issue of free will I think that I do not 免费的问题我认为我没有
think that people can learn unless they 认为人们可以学习，除非他们
admit that they're wrong 承认他们错了
there was this there's this play the 有这个有这个戏的
cocktail hour by TS Eliot and he has 鸡尾酒时间由TS艾略特和他
this woman in the play and she comes up 这个女人在剧中出现
to a psychiatrist and she says just in 对精神病学家，她说只是在
the course of casual conversation she 她随意对话的过程
says I really hope there's something 说我真的希望有什么
wrong with me and of course the 我和当然错了
psychiatrist is a bit taken aback by 精神病医生有点吃了一惊
that he says well why in the world would 他说世界上为什么会这样
you hope such a thing and she says 你希望这样的事情，她说
something like well like I'm suffering 就像我受苦一样
then things are not good for me I'm 那么事情对我来说并不好，我是
having a dreadful time of it as far as I 就我而言有一段可怕的时间
can tell there's only two possibilities 可以告诉只有两种可能性
either the world in its essence is 无论是在其本质世界
conspiring against me and I'm doomed 密谋反对我，我注定了
because what am I going to do about the 因为我要怎么处理这个问题
world like it's just built into the 世界就像它只是内置于其中
structure of reality or I'm doing 现实的结构或我在做
something wrong so I'm really hoping 有什么不对，所以我真的很希望
that I'm doing something wrong because 我做错了什么，因为
if I am then maybe I could fix it and 如果我是那么也许我可以修复它
I'd stop suffering and it's it's 我会停止痛苦，事情就是这样
something like that and see it's also I 类似的东西，看到它也是我
think that if your life isn't what it 认为如果你的生活不是这样的话
could be and you're suffering then it 可能会和你一样痛苦吧
seems to me that that should be 在我看来，这应该是
sufficient evidence that you don't know 足够的证据表明你不知道
enough and with if that isn't sufficient 足够，如果这还不够
evidence that you don't know enough then 证据显示你当时并不知情
I don't know how anyone else can provide 我不知道其他人能提供什么
you without evidence and so I'm going to 你没有证据， 所以我要去
leave it at that 离开它
this is psychological rescue not like 这不是心理救援
the rescuing someone who's drowning for 营救人谁是溺水了
example you can rescue people when 例如，你可以在什么时候救人
they're drowning even if they don't want 即使他们不想要，他们也会溺水
perfect 完善
I'll tell you something about that 我会告诉你一些事
though something interesting about that 尽管有趣的事情
and that's relevant but you know I don't 这是相关的，但你知道我不知道
know how many of you know how you rescue 知道你们中有多少人知道你是如何拯救的
someone who's drowning you do it like 淹死你的人会这样做
this right you come to them like this 这个权利你就像这样来到他们面前
and you push them away with your foot if 如果你用脚将它们推开
they're I'm telling you that's what you 他们是我告诉你这就是你
do if you're a lifeguard because if 如果你是救生员，那么请做
they're panicking and they grab you you 他们恐慌，他们抓住你
both drown and that's stupid because 既淹死又愚蠢，因为
then you both drown right and so and 那么你们都溺死了，等等
that's a really good way that's a really 这真的是一个非常好的方法
good metaphor for trying to help someone 试图帮助某人的好隐喻
- it's like when people are in real - 就像人们真实的时候一样
trouble you know some of it's they're 麻烦你知道 它的一些 他们
confused and some of it is that their 困惑和一些是他们的
life is collapsed around them and 生活是他们周围倒塌 ，
there's some malevolence there and 那里有一些恶意
there's some desire for vengeance like 有一些像复仇一样的渴望
one dangerous mess and if you're going 一个危险的混乱，如果你要去
to wait in there unprepared the 在那里等待毫无准备
probability that they're going to take 他们将要采取的可能性
you down 你失望
compared to you elevating them is very 相比你升高他们是非常
very high you know because you don't 你知道的很高，因为你不知道
even know what your damn psychological 甚至知道你该死的心理
stability rests on you might be saying 稳定取决于你可能会说
just because you're lucky and surrounded 只是因为你很幸运并被包围
by sane people that doesn't mean that 理智的人，并不意味着这一点
you have the psychological wherewithal 你有心理上的必要
to really post someone up from the 真正地从某人发布某人
depths of the underworld especially if 特别是如果是黑社会的深度
they've also got one foot in hell so you 他们也有一脚在地狱，所以你
should bloody well be careful about 应该血淋淋地好好小心一下
doing that kind of thing it's it's 做那种事是很
hubristic to attempt it and I would you 傲慢地尝试它，我会你
know I would definitely caution people 知道我一定会提醒人们
very carefully about trying to rescue 非常小心地尝试营救
someone who doesn't want to be rescued 不想被拯救的人
it's it's very dangerous activity and it 这是非常危险的活动
can easily be counterproductive 很容易起反作用
okay so vote since 2006 I've been trying 好，所以投票自2006年以来我一直在尝试
to figure out like extract the meta the 弄清楚像提取元
way you've put it of social justice 你已经把它放在社会正义的道路上
warriors and I think I found it actually 勇士和我想我实际上找到了它
they seem to have this behavior where 他们似乎有这种行为在哪里
they just they nebulize every standard 他们只是雾化每一个标准
we have so they take a standard you have 我们有他们采取你有的标准
that has full of criteria they say what 充满了他们说什么的标准
something is is how it is like that's a 东西是怎么样，这是一个
podium but it has these criteria within 领奖台但内部有这些标准
event oh sorry 事件哦对不起
they take them they do something called 他们带他们去做一些叫做的事情
nebulization where they take something 雾化他们需要什么东西
of what and they dissolve the criteria 什么和他们解散标准
such that there is no way to say how it 这样就没办法说出来了
is so you see this now with gender where 是这样，你现在看到这与性别在哪里
someone will say their gender but 有人会说他们的性别，但是
there's no way to get logically from how 如何从逻辑上无法获得
they can be that gender like how you can 他们可以像你所能做的那样是性别
be an attack helicopter or a male or a 成为一架攻击直升机或一架男性或一架
woman or something like that 女人之类的东西
but the thing that came from this and I 但是从这和我来的东西
figured this out when I found about you 想通了这一点，当我发现你
when I learned about you is that 当我了解到你是那个
nebulization appears to be the exact 雾化似乎是确切的
opposite process of individuation 相反的个性化过程
philosophic the silikal version of into 哲学的silikal版本的成
it individual that rests on three 它依赖于三个人
premises or three core axioms which is I 处所或三个核心公理 是我
exist which is an axiom that exists in 存在这是存在于其中的公理
like an objective that you exist here 像你在这里存在的目标
and then I am which is a reiteration or 然后我就是重申或者说
reading reincarnation of I exist which 阅读转世我存在哪个
is basically you have to say I'm right 基本上你必须说我是对的
about having existed or else it just 关于存在，否则它只是
falls apart and you have ass which is 分崩离析，你有屁股是
the question begs from that well if you 这个问题 从求好，如果你
exist and you're right as what and 存在，你是正确的和什么
you're talking about God being the the 你在谈论神是那个人
metaphor of God in Genesis being the a 创世记中的上帝比喻是一个
metaphor for the creation of 隐喻的创造
consciousness and it appears that 意识和它似乎
individuation actually fits that triad 个性化实际上适合那个黑社会
because if you take adds for example and 因为如果你增加例如和
the as is a it's a predictive aspect 在AS是它的预测方面
when you try to take the subjective and 当你试图采取主观和
make it object it's you have an idea you 让它反对它是你有一个想法你
test it in reality and time is the 在现实中测试它，时间就是这样
ultimate arbiter that determines these 决定这些的最终仲裁者
things and it changes your understanding 事情和它改变你的理解
the reality it gets it lets you know God 它获得的现实可以让你认识上帝
it lets you know the objective and then 它可以让你知道目标，然后
from that point there's the subjective 从这一点有主观
which is supposed to be form from 这应该是从形式
objective reality because you've changed 客观现实，因为你已经改变了
that you know have to sacrifice your old 你知道必须牺牲你的旧时代
self the old way you saw Jordan Peterson 自我是你看到约旦彼得森的老路
of ten years ago was not who he is now 十年前是不是他现在是谁
so it gets sacrificed and at the same 所以它被牺牲，并在相同的
time you can point back to that guy that 时间你可以指出那个家伙
Jordan Peterson and say well that guy 约旦皮特森并且说那个人
was wrong and that's the scapegoating of 是错的，那是替罪羊
the Sun so the subjective aspect the I 太阳把主观方面的我
am right is the son and the holy spirit 我正确的是儿子和圣灵
which is supposed to lead you to God is 这应该引导你到上帝的地方
the ass and I don't understand the 屁股和我不明白的
relationship between that in the first 之间的关系在第一
part okay so can you just clarify that 部分没关系，所以你可以澄清一下
the social justice aspect and the 社会正义方面和社会正义
nebulization oh the social justice is 雾化哦，社会正义是
the exact opposite process of 完全相反的过程
individuation that's all it is and it 个性化，就是这一切
actually occurs that adds if you're a 实际上发生，如果你是一个增加
Tad's and you're thinking about what am 泰德，你在想什么
I you either apply individuation you try 我你要么尝试个性化
to apply cry so you try to find out what 申请哭泣，所以你试图找出什么
you are in reality or we refuse that 你在现实中我们拒绝这
paradigm and say well look I am I'm 范例，说得好看我是我
always going to be right I'm completely 总是会是对的我完全是
self-righteous and you stomp at that 自以为是，你跺脚
subjective aspect where everything 主观方面凡事
becomes subjective and you ultimately 成为主观，你最终
become relativistic and nihilistic so 成为相对论和虚无主义等等
I'm asking have you considered that the 我问你有没有考虑过这个问题
Genesis tale and the the creation myth 创世纪的故事和创造神话
and God is actually the is the process 而上帝其实就是这个过程
of individuation and the Trinity is 个性化和三位一体是
actually those three core premises the 实际上那三个核心处所
three axioms that come 三个公理来了
from that okay I haven't considered that 从那好吧我没有考虑到这一点
I mean I know that young draw drew a 我的意思是我知道年轻的画画了
parallel between the idea of the passion 并行的激情的想法
for example and the development of human 例如和人类的发展
individuality and so there's that that 个性，所以就是这样
idea is lurking inside the union notion 想法潜伏在工会理念的内部
of individuation because it has to do 个性化，因为它必须这样做
with the voluntary confrontation with 与自愿对抗
mortality and also with evil right as 死亡率也与邪恶的权利一样
two of the key elements of genuine self 两个真正的自我的关键要素
realization I haven't considered the 实现我没有考虑过
metaphorical pathway that you just 隐喻的途径，你只是
described so I can't comment on that I'd 所以我不能评论我的意见
have to think about that but I could say 必须考虑这一点，但我可以说
that one of the things that does disturb 那些 干扰的事情 之一
me about the ideological battle that's 我关于这个意识形态的斗争
going on right now and I think this is a 现在正在进行，我认为这是一个
very deep part of it and this is the 它非常深的部分，这是
part that's a battle against the logos 这是对抗标志的一部分
in in derrida's old terms right the 在德里达的旧条款正确的
fellow go centric West needs to be taken 同胞去中心西方需要被采取
down to its essence is the refusal to 到本质是拒绝
engage in precise language and I see 搞精确的语言，我明白了
that in part for example manifested in 部分例如表现在
the refusal of the people who are 这是谁的拒绝
criticizing to ever engage me in any 批评任何时候都会让我参与进来
debate they don't believe in debate and 辩论他们不相信辩论和
they don't believe in the in the in the 他们不相信在中
let's say the redemptive power of dialog 让我们说对话的救赎力量
because mostly what they believe in his 因为大部分他们相信他的
power so there's a nebulization in that 所以那里有雾化
manner there's this tendency to hide 方式有这种倾向隐藏
behind what's vague and fog like instead 在模糊和雾之后
of making things sharp and clear and 使事情变得清晰明确
crystalline and I do think that that's 结晶，我确实认为这是
well that's part of the degeneration of 以及这是堕落的一部分
a civilization as far as I'm concerned 一个文明，就我而言
so so you haven't considered that then 所以你还没有考虑那个
no it would you please I'll do my best 不，你会请我尽我所能
I'll do my best 我将尽我所能
Thanks thank you okay so one this is it 谢谢你好，所以一个就是这样
one more question and make it quick okay 还有一个问题，让它快点好起来
hi dr. Peterson my question is I know 嗨博士彼得森我的问题是我知道的
you stated in the last lecture that the 你在最后一次演讲中表示，
importance for setting aims in life and 对于设定生活和生活目标的重要性
to kind of have goals to work towards 有种目标要努力
right so my question was where do you 对，所以我的问题是你在哪里
how do you do that if you don't know 如果你不知道 ，你怎么做到这一点
where you want to go because that's kind 你想去的地方，因为那样
of where I got stuck on you're your 我被困在你身上的是你的
future off authoring program because 未来的创作计划因为
yeah okay that's that's a good question 是的好吧，这是一个很好的问题
that's a really good question I think 这是我想的一个非常好的问题
it's the echoed to some degree in the 这是回荡在一定程度上在
structure of the biblical stories and in 圣经故事和结构
this manner so there's this notion in 这种方式所以这里有这个概念
the Old Testament that morality is 旧约中的道德是
following a sequence of prohibitions 遵循一系列禁令
there's a bunch of bad things you 有一堆坏事 你
shouldn't do and then basically you're 不应该做，然后基本上你是
good enough and I think there's wisdom 足够好，我觉得有智慧
in that I think that's kind of where 因为我认为那是一种地方
children start right you I mean I love 孩子们开始对你我的意思是我爱
children and all that but they're 孩子和所有，但他们是
they're they're crazy little creatures 他们是他们疯狂的小动物
and they need to be you know civilized 他们需要你是文明的
and partly what you do is you you lay 部分你做的是你，你躺着
prohibitions on them and mostly what 禁止他们，主要是什么
you're trying to do is lay prohibitions 你试图做的是放置禁止
on them for the behaviors that if they 对他们的行为， 如果他们
manifested would make their life 表现会使他们的生活
miserable so I have another chapter in 悲惨， 所以我有另一章
this book that I'm writing called don't 我正在写的这本书没有
let your children do anything that makes 让你的孩子做任何事情
you dislike them and the idea there is 你不喜欢他们和那里的想法
that your your job as a parent is to 你的你的工作作为家长要
help your children become the sort of 帮助你的孩子成为那种
four-year-olds that adults genuinely 四岁的成年人真诚
smile at when they come into a room 当他们进入房间时微笑
because that makes the entire social 因为这会使整个社会
environment both truthful and welcoming 真实和欢迎的环境
and so your job is to make them 所以你的工作就是制造它们
desirable social beings and a lot of 理想的社会存在和很多
that is prohibition okay and there's 这是禁止没关系，那里
this ethical transformation and it 这个道德转型和它
happens to some degree in the in the 发生一定程度的 中
tradition of the in the prophetic 在预言中的传统
tradition where there's a spirit that 传统，那里有一种精神
seemed in some sense to rise above the 在某种程度上似乎超出了这个范围
law but there's a real transformation 法律， 但有一个真正的转变
between the Old Testament and the New 旧约与新约之间
Testament because the Old Testament is 因为旧约圣经是遗嘱
prohibition and the New Testament is 禁止和新约
well here's the good things you do once 这是你一次做的好事
you're more than merely prohibiting 你不仅仅是禁止
yourself from from impulsive sin let's 让自己从冲动的罪恶中走出来吧
say there's a positive good to be 说有一个积极的好处
accomplished well you might say well I 成就好你可能会说我很好
don't know what the positive good is 不知道好东西是什么
fair enough man so so this is why this 公平的男人是如此，所以这就是为什么这个
thing that I've said to people to become 我已经向人们说的事情 成为
this crazy internet mean but that's to 这个疯狂的互联网意味着，但这是
clean up your room and which which is a 清理你的房间，这是一
lot better more useful than people think 比人们想象的更有用得多
it's a lot harder too but does the thing 它也很难，但是做到了
the first thing you do I think and I 我认为和你做的第一件事情
learned this in part from Solzhenitsyn 据了解，这部分来自索尔仁尼琴
when he was trying to iron out his soul 当他试图消除他的灵魂
when he was in the gulag because he was 因为他在古拉格时
trying to figure out how he got there 试图弄清楚他是如何到达那里的
how he contributed to how he got there 他是如何促成了他是如何到达那里
you know not Stellan and Hitler even 你甚至不知道斯泰伦和希特勒
though they were kind of a blade you 虽然他们是一种刀片你
know but he wasn't much he could do 知道但他没有多少能做的事
about that I think what you have to do 关于这一点我认为你必须做的
and this is part of humility is you have 这是谦卑的一部分，你有
to look around you within your sphere of 看看你周围的的范围内
influence like the direct sphere of 像直接势力范围
influence and fix the things that 影响并修复那些事情
announce themselves as in need of repair 宣布自己需要维修
and those are often small things you 而那些往往是小事
know and they can be like your room put 知道，他们可以像你的房间放
it in order because the thing is it 它是为了因为事情就是这样
isn't exactly so important that your 并不是那么重要，以至于你的
room is in order although it is what's 房间是为了尽管这是什么
important is that you learn how to 重要的是你学习如何
distinguish between chaos and order and 区分混沌与秩序与
to be able to act in a manner that 能够以某种方式行事
produces order and in most households 产生秩序，并在大多数家庭
there's a hundred things that could be 有一百个可能的事情
done to just make it less hideous and 这样做的目的只是让它变得不那么可怕
horrible and so practicing that is it's 可怕，如此练习，就是这样
a real useful form of meditation and 冥想的真正有用的形式和
it's also it's also I think it's a 这也是我认为这是一个
divine act because you're taking payoffs 神圣的行为，因为你正在获得回报
and you know if you pay attention even 你知道，如果你留意，即使
to a room it's so interesting I learned 到一个房间，我学到了 很有趣的 东西
because I've renovated many places now 因为我现在已经翻修了很多地方
and tried to make them beautiful and one 并试图让他们美丽，一个
of the things that I really learned is 我真正学到的东西是
that even if you own a structure unless 即使你拥有一个结构，除非
you've investigated all the nooks and 你已经调查过所有的角落了
crannies and cleaned them up and put 裂缝并将其清理干净
your own imprint on them and made them 你自己的印记和他们
yours they're not yours the mere fact of 你的他们不是你的事实
physical ownership doesn't make them 物理所有权不会使他们
yours you have to establish a dynamic 你必须建立一个动态的
relationship with the objects before 与之前的对象的关系
they're actually yours and I think you 他们实际上是你的，我想你
can you can do something as simple as 你可以可以做简单的东西
just sit on your bed and think okay 只是坐在你的床上，并认为没关系
there's probably like five things I 我可能有五件事
could do today so that tomorrow morning 明天早上可以今天做
is slightly better than this 比这略好
morning was at least or at least I'm not 早上至少或至少我不是
falling behind and those who usually be 落后和那些 通常是谁
like having to eat a toad in the morning 就像早上不得不吃蛤蟆一样
right it's like it's not going to be 这就像它不会是
something you want to do there'll be 你想要做的事情会有的
things you're trying to avoid there 你试图避免的事情
snakes essentially but if you ask 蛇本质上，但如果你问
yourself like you're asking someone 你自己就像你在问别人
which i think is a form of prayer if you 我认为这是一种祈祷方式， 如果你
ask yourself instead of telling yourself 问自己，而不是告诉自己
you know what is it that I could do to 你知道我能做些什么
set things more right today that I would 今天就把事情设定得更准确一些
actually do it's usually some small 实际上它通常是一些小的
thing because he's not that disciplined 因为他不是那种有纪律的人
you know then you can go do it and then 你知道那么你可以去做，然后
you you put the world together a little 你把世界放在一起
more when you do that and that spreads 当你这样做并且传播时更多
out but you also put your you also 出去，但你也把你也放在你身边
construct yourself into something that's 构建自己的到的东西，是
better able to call order forth from 能够更好地向客户发出呼吁
chaos and that makes you just 混乱，这让你只是
incrementally stronger and then the next 逐渐增强，然后下一个
day you can maybe take on a slightly 一天你可能会稍微承担一点
larger task and like you get the benefit 更大的任务和喜欢你的好处
of compound interest if you do that it's 复合利益，如果你这样做
a tremendously powerful technique and 一个非常强大的技术和
they think if you do that at some point 他们认为如果你在某个时候这样做
instead of just having to fix things up 而不是只需要解决问题
that are not good you'll start to get a 这不好，你会开始得到一个
glimmer of the positive things that you 你对一些积极的事情的微笑
could do you know you did the positive 你能否知道你做了积极的事情？
things that you could do that would 你可以做的事情会
actually constitute a vision and now 实际上构成了一个愿景，现在
that's what I would recommend thank you 这就是我会建议的谢谢你
all right good night 晚安，晚安
[Applause] [掌声]