♪airysynths♪
You can't punchsomebody in the face,
and then tell themyou love them.
That- that is notthe equivalent
of punching youin the face.
History is catchingup with you.
This "maybe it'stime to...separate,"
do you feel like you're100 percent behind that?
Yes.
You know, knowingwhat we know now,
if we were gonna getmarried...tomorrow,
he wouldn't.
I mean, you'd bean idiot to.
I'd be a greattherapist.
[clears throat]
-[laughs]-[Orna] Say what would be
-your approach?-Because-
I think
I- I think it'd be like a-the "no bullshit" approach.
I think I would justtake the head off-
[Orna]Mm-hm.
-shake it out--[Orna] Mm-hm.
Put it back on, turn'em around, pssht-
out the door.
And just skip...
ugh, this part.
-[laughs]-[laughs]
[Orna]Skip...
all the kind of emotionalattunement part?
[laughs]No, it's not-
-A little bit, yeah.-[laughs]
Yeah, just-
let's just get
-back in the game.-Mm-hm.
♪groovy bass anddrum beat♪
Smell that.It smells good.
So, I've had, like,
this sort of obsessivecrush- [laughs]
-[Orna] Mm-hm.-that, like, I've talked
-to Lauren a lot about.-[Orna] You've mentioned.
I kind of, like...
put a feeler outfor this crush-
to this crush,and, um...
he, like, didn'ttake the bait,
and then I was, like,a little dejected.
[Orna]Mm-hm.
Then I sort of, like,realized, like,
"Oh, this crushis like, a just-
it's a distractionfrom the pain I'm in.
[Orna]Mm-hm.
And, um...
it's really frustrating 'causethis distraction's not working.
-Like--[laughs]
If this crush wouldjust, like,
blossom into whatit could blossom into,
-it would be so helpful--[Orna] Mm-hm.
To just distract me fromwhat's actually going on...
and...
what's actuallygoing on is...
the wholepregnancy thing.
Mm-hm.
[Sarah]I...
fell into thisbelief that
the only way to be valuable
and the only way to be treatedlike a precious object
was to be pregnant.
I thought maybe itwould make her...
treat me b-differently.
[Orna]Mm-hm.
Can you describe momentswhere you feel...
taken care of?
When we actuallyhave time and space
just to sit and talk.
[Orna] Mm-hm.
Like, there's nobody thatsees me like she does...
and...
no one that supportsme like she does...
but it's more of l-like, it's like the...
day-to-day stuffthat gets tricky.
[Orna] When there'sless- less time.
[Sarah]Yeah.
We had a big fighton Saturday
'cause we were, like,picking up the house,
and...
I was makingthe bed,
and she, like, h-
was doing somethingat the vanity, and
she threw a piece oftrash onto the bed
while I wasmaking it.
And, like, shedidn't know I-
she didn't realizeI was making the bed.
Even though I wasright next to her.
-[Orna] Mm-hm.-And, like...
I...
-was like, "For real?"-[Orna] Mm-hm.
She's, like, completely unawareof what's going on around her.
Yeah.
-[laughs]-That's true.
-[Orna] Mm-hm.-It's bonkers.
I am, like...
taking care ofmyself.
-[Orna] Mm-hm.-I'm also...
taking care of Sarah.
Like, I'll normallymake the coffee,
-and, like--Mm-hm.
[Lauren] that, like- inthat argument, she...
said in a tone that- thatsomehow that-
that just setme off.
[Orna]Mm-hm.
Because it- it sets me offin a very defensive...
way,
and I don't reactwell to it.
Mm-mm.
-I--[Orna] You said last week
that you would liketo figure out
a way to becomeless defensive.
[Laren]Yeah.
I go down a rabbithole with it.
Like, I startfeeling like-
like she's looking at mein- as if I'm a bad partner.
-Oh my god.-And then I'm just-
I know, that's whatI'm saying.
-Like, this is the problem--[Orna] But wait, say it. Don't-
W- wait.
[Lauren] Yeah, I-I mean, that's-
She's looking at meas if I'm a bad partner.
-[Lauren] Yeah.-Keep going.
And while she'scleaning up,
I'm just kicking up myfeet and fucking around,
and...
that, like, thatreally sucks.
Do you always goto the same place?
I think so.
[Orna] So whatis that place?
How do you think youare in that moment?
Who- who is- Sarah'sviewing you like-
That she'sfed up.
[Orna] That she's fed upwith you because you're-
Not what shewants me to be.
Like, what do youthink that's-
what's in thatfor you?
I mean, I think a lot of itstems from my ex-wife.
[Orna]How?
I feel like I tried reallyhard to be a good partner.
[Orna]You tried what?
I mean, I tried to be whatshe wanted me to be.
Which is?
I mean...
for her, it wasa man...
and I truly triedto do that.
I tried everythingI could...
-for a long time.-[Orna] Mm-hm.
And then, like...
you know, I used to havethese kinds of fights...
with her, and Ithink it was like...
like, I'm tryingso hard, and...
pick at me forsmall things-
-[Orna] Mm-hm.-When I'm trying to give you
everything.
[Orna] When actually,I'm making
an enormous effort.
Forget about thesesmall things.
I'm actually trying,
i- in, I guess, in thecase of your wife,
to be someoneI can't be.
Yeah.
[Orna] Or someonethat negates me.
Yeah.
♪bluesymusic♪
You knew I can'tfreakin' sta-
I can't stand him.
-He knows that too.-I know he knows that.
I w- I can't fake it.I can't fake it.
[Elaine] The last timethat we were here-
[Orna]Mm-hm.
My mind did not acceptwhat you said,
-but my body reacted.-[Orna] About the trauma?
Yeah, but mybody reacted.
Try to describe thephysical sensation.
[Elaine] I was s- I wassweating, but cold.
-Mm-hm.-[Elaine] I f- felt shaky.
My heart waspounding, and...
my face wastwitching...
and I was like,"Holy cow, all right."
I'm like, "Okay."
But I know whatthat is because
I had a similarexperience before.
Um...
when your mind doesn'taccept what is,
and your bodyreacts to it.
I- When my mother died,um, I went to work,
-and--What do you mean?
[Elaine] So I get the callthat she dies, and...
I'm like, "Okay, thanksfor telling me."
and...I went to work.
Regular day.
I'm at work,
and I'm sitting atmy desk, and...
all of the sudden,
I started getting hot...
but I was cold.
I was sweating.
Tears were comingout of my face.
I went into aconference room...
and I locked the door,and I just let it do its thing.
I didn't even goto the funeral.
I didn't go tonone of that.
I truly believe thatthe body is a shell,
and I don't need tolook at the body.
I feel like the spiritis- is what it is,
and if you're gone,then you're gone.
Your spirit iswhat lives.
And I feel you, you feelme, and we're good.
You know youused your-
You repeatedly saidthe word "shell."
[Elaine]Mm-hm.
But I'm thinkingof you...
going to work...
-when you heard that she died.-Mm-hm.
And then...
you didn't say"I cried."
You said, "Tears werecoming out of my eyes."
[Elaine] 'Cause Iwasn't crying.
Right.
So, it- it makes methink of a shell,
like, you're actinglike a shell...
Mmm.
[Orna] That you- you'rekind of separating yourself
-from all the meaning--Mmm.
[Orna] the- thepainful meaning...
-of what you're describing.-Mmm.
-I feel like--Turbulence and
upset and disappointmentand terrible tragedy-
That serves me nopurpose.
-[Orna] To be connected to that.-Absolutely.
[sighs]
You know when Iwas saying to you
certain experiences thatyou're having with Desean
are informed by...
stuff that youhaven't processed-
Mm-hm, mm-hm,mm-hm, mm-hm.
[Orna] That's thesource of that.
-Mmm.-[Orna] The stuff that you don't
-wanna touch--Mmm.
whhpt, come together,
and get projectedon him
like a screen.
Mmm.
I've really beentrying to...
dig throughsome things.
You know, like...
something happenedthat wasn't a big deal,
and it annoyed me...
but I didn't- I- I-
I kinda sat with it...
to- to- to digest,"Okay,
why are you thinkingthis way?
What's- why are youthinking this way?"
He never knew,
it went withouta hitch.
[laughs]
He didn't even feel likeanything was wrong
'cause I didn't even-
Right?
Why do you looklike that?
[sighs]
[Elaine] Why do youlook like that?
I- I wish that didn'texist, though.
I need to workthrough it, Desean.
It's not just gonna
automatically leave,right?
No, I get it.
-And--But, no I just- so,
everything sincelast week
has been light,meaning...
We- we've beengreat.
It's been o- it'sbeen cool.
W- when I heardher describe that,
I'm thinking,
"What did I do...
to trigger her,"you know?
-[Orna] Mm-hm.-And maybe I have to be
careful, you know?
Oh no.
-And- and I just said I'm not--That you're going back-
-[Desean] Yeah, yeah.-to your default position.
[Desean]Yup.
But you know,it feels like...
You're not gonnalike me anymore.
You're not-you- you're-
-you're not gonna--Oh.
[Desean] you know,you're not gonna...
love me anymore.
You're not gonna...
l- look at me thesame anymore.
[Elaine]Mm-hm.
And now that lusteris gone, and-
[Elaine] Mm-hm.
You don't likeme anymore.
If you what, sh-
Elaine's not gonnalove you anymore?
If you said...
I've upset you,or you're upset-
[Orna] Any upsetthat you cause-
Any upset that Icause with- with-
[Orna] Means youare gonna lose the love.
Yeah.
So, your way of keepingyour connection...
is by making sureyou don't upset?
Yeah.
[Orna] Okay, that-that we- we-
we should spendsome time on that.
[laughter]
It's kinda-
I'm not afickle person.
No, that's me though,that's my issue.
[Elaine] I say thatto say that...
that's not gonna-
I- I know that you- that'snot gonna happen-
-Yeah.-[Orna] Desean is saying
that's his partin the puzzle.
Ah, okay, okay,okay, okay.
♪airysynths♪
[inaudible]
[Alan] She told me whenwe went out to the dinner,
she had beenlooking
at placesalready, like...
-[Orna] Mmm.-Yeah.
So it's just like a...
Weird.[laughs]
Weird, but soundslike you're in touch-
-[Alan] Weird, but--with the fact that it hurts.
Yeah,oh, yeah.
Yeah.
It makes me thinkabout it more, like...
is this something youreally wanna do, like...
you know?
When we firststarted dating,
we were out to dinner, and Iremember she told me, like,
what expectations shehad for the person
that she was with.
And for whateverreason, that always...
resonated with me.
Like, that's what I'vespent these years
trying to do tomake sure, like...
-That you meet that--Yeah.
-[Orna] Expectation.-And, like...
she doesn't give ashit about that.
You're finding yourselfresentful because
it seems like you'renever meeting it.
You're alwayssomehow-
There's some way thatyou're falling short.
[Alan]Yeah.
I don't think she's everstopped or thought, like...
"This person's tryingto make my life better."
[Orna]Yeah.
Haven't I always made sureyou were on top of stuff?
Made sure youhad insurance...
[voice breaking] so youcould take care of things.
[sniffs]
Yes.
Alan, I wouldn't saythat I never thought
that you weretrying to, like-
Well, you f- you makeme feel like that.
You really feellike that?
You-
I- of course I feel like that,that's why I'm telling you.
I never- I neverknew that, Alan.
Like, you've neverexpressed that, like-
that you feltlike that.
Because it's like I- Ijust don't wanna make
a- a thing aboutanything.
Like, I'm- m- myapproach is different.
-[Orna] Right.-Like, I just, like,
tuck it away.
-I don't say anything.-[Orna] Right, but that-
the business of tucking thingsaway doesn't really work
to sustain areal marriage.
But I think...
the way I've been handlingit is that, like...
go into this disbeliefthat she-
and I resent her for it,like, and I just don't-
-Yeah.-[Orna] Right, but then you grow
increasingly...
miserable andresentful...
not feeling goodabout yourself,
and resentful...
that your effortsare not recognized.
And I assume...
that some of thesebehaviors just...
slip away
and you startacting...
shady.
They're almost like...
passive aggressiveways of getting back...
at Evelyn...
for making youfeel bad.
Maybe even I'm gonnapunish Evelyn
s- unconsciously.
-Maybe.-[Orna] Maybe?
Maybe it mighttied into that.
-Like--[Orna] Mm-hm.
it's almost just kindalike a...
you know,
-"forget you" kinda thing.-[Orna] Yeah.
-Like--[Orna] Yeah.
-I'ma do my own thing.-[Orna] You make me feel bad.
-I'm just gonna...-Yeah, so I don't care you
or your feelings.
-[Orna] Yeah.-I mean, sure.
[Orna] By operatingthis way,
you weaken therelationship.
Yeah.
[Orna] So youweaken it,
and then it's harderto trust it.
♪tensestrumming♪
We're back.
[Orna] You're back,but you're back-
[Annie]Today.
To- for today?
-This is our last session?-[Mau] Yeah, this is it.
-[Annie] Yes.-Okay.
[Annie] We've beenhere 11 times.
[Orna]Mm-hm.
So, that's almostfour times...
we've ever gone toany therapist before.
[laughs]
No, like, what's themost we've ever gone?
-Like, three--[Annie] It's three sessions.
Yeah.
Well, I appreciate thatyou spent at least-
-[Mau] Yeah.-this much time with me.
First of all,how are you?
Mixed.
Right?
How are you?
-[Orna] Mixed, tell me.-Mixed, yeah
Yup.[clears throat]
Can you tell me?
[Mau]Our life is...
so...
good.
There's- there'selements that-
that now here,like,
she won't play golf.
You know, I'm like, "Howawesome would it be
to play golf?"
But it's neverhappening, right?
And I- andI let go of it,
20 years ago, Ilet go of it,
and there's a bunchof things like that.
[Orna]Mm-hm.
[Mau]But...
it really is about...
just...having sortof more life...
with Annie.
-[Orna] More life with Annie?-[Mau] Right.
-And then, um--Mm-hm.
So that when youlook at that,
I'm like, "Eh-"
I mean, you couldalways find something
to complain about.
Uh, it just seems...
unnecessary,so I guess...
you know, thismorning, I was...
We had a littlebit of a...
problem thismorning.
And, I was...
getting, like, angry.
I was, like- I was evengetting, like, mean,
but I wasn't- but Iwasn't saying it.
It was all inside.
and, like, you know, partof it was I was working on
the best ways toexpress myself.
-Uh--Good.
[Mau]and not-
not in a good sense.
Just, like, in the mostefficient way of-
-Not good. [laughs]-[Mau] Not good.
And, um...
and then I was thinkingabout it, and I was like...
just like-
like, don't.
Like, y- you know,but I said,
"Fight that sensation.
Like, it's gonna pass.
It always does.
Can you say somethingabout those things
that are causing you...
some level ofdiscontent,
or want, or...?
It's notsympatico .
We're not- we're notin the same place.
In certain domains.
-Well, and then--[Annie] No, in general.
Yeah, in general.
And in terms of reactingto what you said-
[Mau]Mm-hm.
I- I'm touched bywhat you said.
But I'm still kindascratching my head
because when we doget the opportunity
-to be together--[Mau] Mm-hm.
You're uncomfortable.
Like, I don't knowwhat this thing-
these life experiencesyou wanna have with me-
-I mean, yes--[Orna] Because when you do
go out, or when youdo have the chance,
-you're saying Mau is--[Annie] We're not-
we don't have fun.
It's just like that feeling ofjust an intense incompatibility.
We are reallyincompatible.
[Annie] So ourson is 14-
-about to be 14.-[Orna] Mm-hm.
[Annie] We have fouror five years left
on the clockof, like,
we need...
this sort of lifestylefor our son.
In five years is thefirst opportunity
where we getto say, like...
"We, as individuals,can go wherever we want.
We can do whateverwe want,
-and it's--Kinda, I mean-
Sort of.
Well...
to our abilities...
but I mean,we're not bound.
We're muchless bound.
-[Mau] Why are you being--What are you trying to say?
I'm not, go ahead.
You know what?I don't need to do that.
-Go ahead.-[Annie] Tha- thanks.
I don't think Iwanna do this...
after- I don't wannabe married.
[sighs]
Yes, I can see how wecan be more peaceful
-[Orna] Mm-hm.-[Annie] I can see
how we can be less...
entangled.
-[Orna] Mm-hm.-And-
but I don't see howwe're gonna be
any more compatible.
I mean, you can closethe door on yourself
-for hours.-[Mau] Mm-hm.
-And I'm bored.-[Mau] Mm-hm.
I'm so bored.
I don't wanna sitaround and watch TV.
You want more Mau?
You want more Annie,you want more Mau...
in different ways.
[Annie] No, I don'twant more of him
Because when I thinkof the things I want to go
and be doing,he's not a good-
[Orna] He's not gonna enjoyit the way you're hoping.
[Annie] He's not acompati- compatriot.
[Orna]Mm-hm.
Like, you broughtup golf.
-[Mau] Sure.-Right?
[Mau] I did bringup golf.
It could've been tennis,could've been Scrabble.
Could've been anythingintellectual.
Eww.
Seriously?
I'm not coming toyou with garbage,
You're like, "I justwanna play golf,
and I'm mister, like, specific."-I'm not doing anything.
[Annie] Like why- that'swhat you're doing.
You're flippingwhat I like
into being illegitimate,or overly indulgent.
That's whatyou do,
and you doit to me.
Mm-hm.
And so, you can'tbe there,
and I understand thatyou can't be there,
but your strategy ofexplaining to me
why you can'tbe there
has been toshit on it,
and then the narrative isthat I yuck on your yum.
Yeah, i- it's not.
It isn't toshit on it.
Go to the fuckingfarmer's market.
I'll even gowith you.
This is bullshit that-
But I'll go withyou golfing, too.
-I'll r- I'll dr--[Mau] No, you won't.
-Yes, I will!-[Mau] No, you won't!
I'll drive the cartif you let me.
[sighs]
-But you- you--[Mau] A- Annie, you're
fucking delusional.
It's this endless,like...
scorekeeping thatyou do that is-
I don't feel badfor myself.
That's not who I-
You- youmisunderstand-
But why do youthink Annie's
doing thescorekeeping?
-[Mau] Wh- I- I just--What do you think
the motivation is?
I- It's not- it's notdeeply motivated.
It's a- it's a function ofconfusion, that's...
-Mmm.-[Mau] Okay, I mean, i-
what would youlike me to say?
-How can I describe it?-I don't know.
I don't know whatthe motivation is-
-[Mau] I do.-But if someone is scorekeeping,
they're usually tryingto address something.
Well...
right.
Usually what they'retrying to do
is they're tryingget an outcome.
What's theultimate goal
-that Annie has with you?-[Mau] Well, she-
I mean, for along time...
y- you know, she's needingme to be the bad guy
'cause then thatresolves the issue.
Turn out, I'm not.
-Mm-hm.-So, then
she needs itto be this...
incompatibility, whichactually does exist,
but you're-
the way that you'refocusing on it,
I think fails to addressthe problem-
But what do you thinkthe problem is-
-Well, the- the- the really--fails to address the problem?
Go ahead.
Okay.
The problem is...
she doesn't likeme that much.
She wants tobe in a-
in a differentrelationship.
She doesn't want to bein this relationship.
And that's...
you know...
I think it's, uh...
I think it's...
we don't- I think that'swhat you want.
And I think that- and I thinkthat it would be, like, a-
like, a- [sighs]like you survived
something, and you gotto somewhere else.
And-
and instead of beingsort of, like, honest...
I think you're- you'retrying to concoct...
this- this background,and-
and this conflict, andthese things,
and y- you'd be waybetter off going,
"You know what?
No, you're nota bad guy,
and I- I'm-
You're actually,like, a good guy.
No problem.
I want somethingelse,"
and then...working-
Then y- you could figure outhow to make that happen.
I don't think-
see, I thought thatthat's what I said.
I said I want out.
What do you think aboutwhat Annie's saying?
A- I mean,
I-
I think that she's gonnaget what she wants,
-but--[Annie] But when you say
"I want morelife with you-"
-Mm-hm.-[Annie] I'm left
wondering what thatlife looks like.
-[Mau] You- you're--If it looks like what it is,
I don't want it.
We- we've runout of time.
-[Mau] Mm-hm.-[Annie] Oh.
Um...
[Annie] We're out oftime in every way.
We can...
be better toeach other.
-Mm-hm.-And I don't...
think you're abad guy,
and I don't thinkyou're a bad husband.
I think you'rea great husband.
Psh, I'm the best.
-You're the best husband.-Mm-hm.
And I do love you...
but you're right, I don'tlike you. [laughs]
I don't like howyou treat me.
[Orna]Um...
okay.
[Annie]So, that's that?
-That's that.-[Annie] Okay.
Um...
♪slow bluesymusic♪
Take care ofeach other.
-Psh, always.-Mm-hm.
♪We've beenin a war♪
♪For how manyyears?♪
♪Take manymore♪
♪You'd thinkby now♪
♪We'd be tiredof the tears♪
♪Give insomehow♪
♪Rememberinglove♪
♪It's what wecame here for♪
♪(For)♪
♪Togetherwe're fire♪
♪Two hotpyres♪
♪So we'll burn ourown house down♪
♪We've beenat war♪
♪For howmany years?♪
♪And howmany more?♪
♪Ooh woahwoah♪
♪Mmm woahwoah♪
♪Whenlove♪
♪is what I camehere for♪
♪(For)♪
♪Ahh♪