2005年11月
我想强调的是 I want to emphasize that
这次的调查是由 the investigation is being conducted
卡柳梅特县警局和 by the Calumet County Sheriff's Department,
威斯康星州刑事调查科共同进行的 the State of Wisconsin, Division of Criminal Investigation,
联邦调查局也会来协助我们 and the FBI is also going to be assisting us.
马尼托沃克县警局 The Manitowoc County Sheriff's Department's role
杰瑞·帕戈尔治安官 卡柳梅特县警局
在此次调查中所起的作用 in this investigation was to provide resources
是为我们提供一切所需的资源 for us when they were needed.
当我们在现场需要设备来进行搜查时 As we needed items on the property to conduct searches,
他们为我们提供所需的设备 they provided that piece of equipment
这就是此次调查中 and that's their role
他们所起的作用 也是唯一的作用 and their only role in this investigation.
据我所知 他们很快就把史蒂文抓了起来 They had Stevie picked, as far as I'm concerned, right away.
阿伦·埃弗里 史蒂文的父亲
他们陷害了他 They set him up.
从一开始就在陷害他 Right from the beginning.
但他们说 "他不是嫌疑犯" 那他是什么呢 But they said, "Oh, he's not no suspect." What was he?
刚开始的三四天 他们在... They didn't find nothing down that--
他的拖车那里什么也没找到 by his trailer for three or four days.
然后突然一下子 Then all of a sudden stuff starts...
"我们找到了这个" "我们找到了那个" "Oh, we found this" and "We found that."
然后马尼托沃克县的警察找到了那把钥匙 And then the Manitowoc cops found the key.
但他们本来都不应该参与调查的 不是吗 But they weren't supposed to be investigating this at all. Right?
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后期 8T
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制造凶手
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警局录像
我们正驶向史蒂文·埃弗里家 Rolling up to Steve Avery's residence.
这是史蒂文·埃弗里的卧室 This is the bedroom. Steve Avery's.
我被告知 尼托沃克县警局的 It was told to me that no Manitowoc County deputy
威廉·泰森警官 卡柳梅特县警局
警官是不应该单独出现在现场的 should be alone on the property.
维格特调查员告诉我 我的职责是 Investigator Wiegert told me my responsibility
陪同他们前往史蒂文·埃弗里的拖车 would be to go with them into the Steve Avery trailer
并记录他们的所有行为 and to document what they were doing
如果他们拿到了任何证据 and if evidence was seized by them,
都应该交由我来保管 to take custody of all the evidence.
你是说你是和其他警官一起行动的 Now you said that you were teamed up with other officers.
你还记得一起的都有谁吗 Do you remember who was in your team?
记得 来自马尼托沃克县警局的 Yes, it was Lieutenant Jim Lenk
詹姆·伦克警督 from the Manitowoc County Sheriff's Department,
来自马尼托沃克县警局的 Sergeant Andy Colborn from
安迪·科尔伯恩警官 the Manitowoc County Sheriff's Department
还有来自马尼托沃克县警局的 and Detective Dave Remiker
戴夫·里米克警探 from the Manitowoc County Sheriff's Department.
你知道地方检察官已经告诉了这些警官 You knew that the district attorneys told those officers
不可以单独前往现场 是吧 not to be alone on any property, right?
法官 这是不恰当描述 Mischaracterization, Judge.
他说的是马尼托沃克县地方检察官 He said the Manitowoc County District Attorney.
我不在乎具体是哪位地方检察官 I don't particularly care which district attorney.
反正是一位地方检察官 对吧 It's a district attorney, all right?
-这件事你是知道的 -是的 - You knew that. - Yes.
并且你知道在所有的地方里 And you knew that if anything,
他们最不应该单独去的地方 of all the places that they should not be alone,
就是史蒂文·埃弗里的拖车 是吧 it would be in Mr. Avery's trailer, right?
我们当天对此并不知情 We did not know that on that day.
埃弗里先生当时在起诉他们 对吧 Mr. Avery was the one who was suing them, right?
这件事你是知道的吧 You knew that?
是的 我知道这件事 I was aware of that fact, yes.
是的 你知道 You knew that. That's right.
你也知道为什么马尼托沃克县把调查权 And you knew that's why Manitowoc transferred authority
-移交给了卡柳梅特县 是吗 -是的 - over to Calumet, right? - Yes.
就是因为这位先生 是吗 It was because of this man right here, right?
我认为是的 I believe that's correct.
并且你们进入的也是这位先生的拖车 是吗 And it was this man right here's trailer that you were in.
-是的 -正因为如此 你要确保 - Yes. - And so that, of all places,
这些马尼托沃克县的警官们不能单独进入现场 you knew was important that you make sure
你知道这样做是至关重要的 that these Manitowoc officers not be alone.
是的 Correct.
所以你要留意他们的行为 是吗 And so you kept an eye on them, didn't you?
是的 我一直在观察他们的举动 I was watching what they were doing, yes.
在你的职业生涯的种种搜查经历中 Had you ever, in any other search in your entire career...
你还有没有像这样留意或监视 had to act like a babysitter or a watch dog
正在进行搜查的警官的经历 for the officers who were conducting a search?
-没有 -这是第一次 是吗 - No. - This was a first for you, wasn't it?
-是的 -你是否同意我这样的说法 - Yes. - And would you agree with me
有你在旁边监视 that it would've been very difficult...
伦克警督和科尔伯恩警官 for Lieutenant Lenk or Sergeant Colborn
就很难在那间屋子里 to have planted a Toyota key
放置那把丰田的钥匙 in that residence under your watch?
是的 确实会很难 I believe it would've been difficult.
因为你在旁边监视着他们 'Cause you were watching them.
是的 我已尽我所能地监视他们 To the best of my ability, yes.
11月8日 当伦克先生和科尔伯恩先生 You were not with Mr. Lenk and Mr. Colborn
再次进入史蒂文·埃弗里的住所时 when they reentered Steven Avery's residence...
你却不在场 是吗 on November 8th, were you?
是的 That's correct.
钥匙就是在这次搜查中被发现的 是吗 And that is the occasion when a key was found, right?
据我了解是的 That is my understanding.
丹尼尔·库哈尔斯基警官 卡柳梅特县警局
你认为伦克警督或科尔伯恩警官 Did you believe that either Lieutenant Lenk or Sergeant Colborn
有机会脱离你的视线去放置那把钥匙吗 had an opportunity out of your eyesight to plant that key there?
-不 他们没那个机会 -你为什么这么肯定 - No, they did not. - How can you be so sure?
首先 他们要持有那把钥匙 Well, first of all, they would've had to have the key.
而我认为唯一能持有 Um, I think the only person that
那把钥匙的人应该是杀死特瑞莎的凶手 would've had the keywas the person that killed Teresa.
反对 这是猜测 Objection. Speculation.
-反对有效 -请求删除这个回答 - Sustained. - Move to strike.
法庭要求删除这个回答 The court will order the answer stricken.
我希望你基于你观察到的情况来发表观点 I want you to limit your comments to your observations.
你观察到了怎样的情况令你相信 What about your observations do you believe
警官们是不可能放置那把钥匙的 it was impossible or improbable for them to plant that key?
我必须要说 我实际观察到的情况是 My actual observations, um, I would have to say that...
他们要那么做还是有可能的 that it could be possible.
比如在我做其他事情的时候 As in, I was doing other things,
我在拍照的时候 我在... I was taking photographs, I was, um...
搜查床头柜的时候 searching the night stand.
如果我们仅仅讨论他们是否有可能 So if we're just limiting it to if it was possible
在我没看见的时候放置钥匙 that they could do it without me seeing it,
-我会说 是的 是有可能的 -好的 - I would say, yes, I guess it is possible. - All right.
你是说万事皆有可能的意思吗 And is that in the sense of anything's possible?
就好比也有可能 That's in the sense of
是外星人把钥匙放在那里的 it's possible aliens put it there, I guess.
好 All right.
房间里并不存在外星人 对吧 There weren't any aliens in the room, right?
据我所知并没有 Not that I know of.
所以把这件事和外星人存在的可能性相提并论 So it being possible in the same way that aliens are possible
并不是对你想表达意思的准确描述 不是吗 really isn't a fair characterization of what you meant, is it?
-我不明白你在说什么 -好 让我换一种说法 - I don't understand. - All right. Let me try it this way.
你当天开始上班的时候 没人告诉你 You were not told at the beginning of that shift
你的工作职责是要去监视 that your function was to be a watch dog for
伦克先生和科尔伯恩先生 是吗 Mr. Lenk and Mr. Colborn, were you?
-是的 -我假设你从没想过 - That's correct. - I take it it never occurred to you
执法人员会伪造证据 是吗 that a law enforcement officer would plant evidence, did it?
是的 No.
你不会特别去留意这种事的 是吗 That was not on your radar, was it?
是的 No.
现在我们所知的事实是 Now what we do know is that
当你第一次进入那间卧室时 when you came into that bedroom the first time,
地上并没有钥匙 是吗 there was no key on the floor, was there?
没错 That's correct.
整个理论是 这把钥匙和这个布绳 The theory was then, that this key and the cloth fob
以及这个塑料扣 and the plastic buckle...
不知怎么的 somehow...
就从背后那个角落出来 managed to come out that back corner,
经过侧边 然后摆成了这样 对吧 walk around the side and lay like that. Right?
反对 法官 这是对证据的错误描述 Object, Judge. That's a mischaracterization of evidence.
这该由证人来回答 Uh, well, that's up to the witness to answer.
允许该提问 I'll allow the question.
我们把书橱拉出来 翻过来进行了检查 The bookshelf was pulled away, turned, searched.
把书橱拉开时 And it was reasonable that
钥匙掉在那块区域也合情合理 while it was turned away, it fell into that area.
好 但不管它什么时候掉在地板上 OK. But you didn't hear it hit the floor when it--
你都没有听到任何声音 对吧 whenever it got there, right?
没错 地板上铺了地毯 Correct. The floor's carpeted.
那么 我能在这儿放它落下去吗 Well, can I drop it on the floor here?
这是在做什么 法官 What are we doing, Judge?
这是在陪审团面前做实验吗 Is this an experiment in front of the jury?
如果是的话 我们要复制现场的环境 If it is, then we need to replicate the conditions.
也行 那稍后再说 That's fine. We'll hold off on that.
书橱还没上过庭 The bookcase hasn't come in
所以我不知道他们是否打算 so I don't know if they intend to
采用这个证据 反正它不在这里 introduce it or not, but it's not here.
詹姆斯·伦克警督 马尼托沃克县警局
伦克警督 11月8日是你起码第三次 Lieutenant Lenk, November 8 was at least
进入埃弗里先生的卧室 your third time into Mr. Avery's bedroom.
进行搜查 是吗 Searching it. Right?
没错 That's correct.
你是第一个清空那个书橱的人吗 Now, you had been the first one to empty out that bookcase?
-不是 先生 -好 - No, sir. - OK.
但你知道有人在11月5日搜了那个书橱 But you know that somebody searched it on November 5.
-是的 -那11月8日呢 - Yes, sir. - How about on November 8?
你知不知道科尔伯恩先生有没有 Do you know whether Mr. Colborn took
把书橱里的东西都弄出来 all of the stuff out of the bookcase?
所有杂志 照片以及诸如此类的东西 All the magazines and the photos and that type of thing
都从书橱里清空了 were taken out of the bookcase.
这样他就可以查看书橱内部了 So that he could look in the bookcase.
我想是吧 I suppose.
当书橱被清空之后 And did you get a chance to look into the bookcase
你有没有机会查看其内部呢 when it was empty of its contents?
我大概...我粗略扫了一眼 I may-- I've glanced in there.
我没有很仔细去看 没有 先生 I didn't really take a hard look in there, no, sir.
在书橱背后 You didn't see a blue lanyard
你没有看到一根蓝色吊绳 and a black clasp and the Toyota key
一个黑色扣环和一把丰田钥匙 是吧 in that back of that bookcase, did you?
没有 先生 我没有看到 No, sir, I did not.
只找到这把钥匙还不够 It's not enough to just get the key.
他还希望上面有埃弗里的DNA He wants Avery's DNA on that.
所以他要等待合适的时机 And so he is gonna wait until it is the right time.
卡柳梅特县警局的有个警官跟他一起 And there is a Calumet deputy with him
负责所有这些搜查 on all of these searches.
没错 就在旁边 Yep, there is, somewhere near.
旁边什么地方 他就在等待合适的时机 Somewhere nearby, and he was just waiting for the right time...
等可以动手的时机 when he could do it.
那把钥匙不是 That key does not fall from...
从后挡板之间 you know, in between the backboard
或那个小书橱的支架中掉落出来 and the frame of that little bookcase.
还找准路线 掉在一双拖鞋下面 And find its way underneath a pair of slippers.
没错 它就这么...你知道 Yeah, it just does-- You know,
重力作用下 东西都是垂直下落 things fall straight down, thanks to gravity.
-没错 -你知道 - Right. - It's, you know.
我们引导他们去想 "听着 Um... and if we get them thinking, "Look...
如果这家伙可以搞把钥匙出来栽赃 if the guy's capable of planting a key...
那他也可以弄点血迹来栽赃" who's to say he's not capable of planting blood?"
-弄点血迹很容易 -没错 - Blood's easy. - Yeah.
-弄点血迹很容易 只要... -轻而易举 - Blood's easy if you-- - Blood's easy.
最重要的是 The bottom line is,
他们早知道由于那起诉讼 they knew their boss had just recused the department
他们的上级要求回避这个警局 and turned over lead authority in this investigation
并把这次调查的主导权转给了邻县的警局 to the neighboring department because of that lawsuit.
他们在那次诉讼中上庭取证过 They were deposed in the lawsuit,
但他们没有告诉... and they didn't tell... you know.
这个我来负责 I'll connect that.
你主动参与对史蒂文·埃弗里 You volunteered to be one of the officers...
住处的搜查 who searched Steven Avery's residence.
我们被叫去协助搜查埃...住处 没错 We were asked to assist in searching Av-- residences, yes.
那好 Well, all right.
针对这个问题你之前也给过证词 You've given testimony about that very topic before.
是的 先生 Yes, sir.
还记得被问到这个问题时 Do you recall being asked this question
你有这么回答过吗 and did you give this answer?
"你主动参与对史蒂文·埃弗里 "So you volunteered to be one of the officers
住处的搜查" who searched Steven Avery's residence."
你的回答是"是的 先生" Your answer:"Yes, sir."
-那是你的证词吗 -是的 先生 - Was that true testimony? - Yes, sir.
科尔伯恩警官也主动参与 Sergeant Colborn also volunteered to be
对史蒂文·埃弗里住处的搜查工作 one of the searchers of Steven Avery's residence.
是的 先生 我想是的 Yes, sir, I believe so.
而你没有告诉法斯宾德特别探员 And you didn't mention that you'd been deposed,
你曾在三四周之前出庭取证过 three, four weeks earlier, to Special Agent Fassbender.
是的 先生 That's correct, sir.
你也没有告诉过马克·维格特调查员 You didn't mention it to Investigator Mark Wiegert.
是的 That's correct.
也没有告诉帕戈尔治安官你上庭取证的事 Didn't tell Sheriff Pagel that you'd been deposed.
没有告诉他 No, sir.
你没有告诉他们 他们就不可能 Without you telling them, there's really no way they
知道这件事 对吧 would have known about it, would they have?
不可能知道 No, sir.
要是你告诉了法斯宾德先生这件事 Would it have been a little bit fairer to Mr. Fassbender
这对他会不会更公平一点 if you had given him this information
这样他作为两名负责的调查员之一 so that he as one of the two lead investigators
就能考虑到这点 could've considered it?
假如我想到了的话 是的 先生 Had I thought of it, yes, sir.
要是你告诉了维格特先生或帕戈尔治安官 Would it have been fairer to give that to
会不会更公平一点 Mr. Wiegert or Sheriff Pagel?
同样的回答 是的 先生 Same answer. Yes, sir.
在你几次三番地花上好几个小时 And before you went rummaging through Steven Avery's bedroom,
彻底搜查史蒂文·埃弗里的卧室之前 once, twice, three times, whatever it was, for hours,
假如让其他人去搜查 would it have been fairer to Steven Avery
而不是一位在史蒂文·埃弗里的诉讼中 if someone other than a person
上庭取证过的人 who had been deposed in his lawsuit
这会不会对他更公平一点 had done that search?
不 先生 我不这么认为 No, sir, I don't think it would've been.
至少在这里 或许这里不是密尔沃基 At least around here, maybe not in Milwaukee,
不是布鲁克菲尔德或者麦迪逊 maybe not in Brookfield, maybe not in Madison,
但在这些事情上 but around these parts,
如果你想暗示一个警察说谎 if you're gonna suggest that a cop is crooked,
你就是暗示他在犯罪 you're gonna suggest that a cop committed crimes,
那你最好除了吹毛求疵以外 then you better have something other than
还有别的实质性的证据 "Your elbow was on the table."
而在这个案子中 And in this case, to suggest that
没有任何证据能表明警察栽赃 these police officers planted evidence with nothing,
至少就我目前看来 that is, with not one shred,
一点证据也没有 at least anything that I've seen,
没有任何证据 that approaches evidence,
我认为应该谴责这种行为 I think is absolutely deplorable.
我又落到和之前一样的处境了 I'm in the same situation that I was before.
有些人想抓我 There's a couple of 'em wanting to nail me.
而另一些人不想 And the other ones didn't.
但没有人出声 But nobody speaks up.
我又要反复经历这一切 I gotta go through this over and over.
有时候我在想 Sometimes I just wonder, I don't know.
这一切实在难以接受 It's just hard to take all in, you know?
请坐 You may be seated.
安德鲁·科尔伯恩警官 马尼托沃克县警局
克拉兹先生 现在您可以继续询问了 Mr. Kratz, at this time, you may resume your questioning.
科尔伯恩警官 在第一天 Sergeant Colborn, that first day,
也就是失踪人口案调查进行的第一天 that is, the first day of the missing persons investigation,
11月3日 维格特先生请你协助后 the 3rd of November, after Mr. Wiegert asked for your help,
你与史蒂文·埃弗里有没有进行任何对话 did you have any conversation with Steven Avery at that time?
是的 我有 Yes, I did.
我询问他特瑞莎·海尔贝克是否到过他们的废车场 I asked him if Teresa Halbach had come out to their property
为一辆出售中的汽车拍照 to photograph a vehicle that they were selling.
埃弗里先生有回答你吗 Mr. Avery have a response for you?
他说她曾给他姐姐的 He said that she was taking some pictures of a van
一辆出售中的厢型车拍照 that his sister was selling.
接着我问埃弗里先生 她是否曾经提过她要去哪里 And I asked Mr. Avery if she had said where she was going
他说 "我从未和她交谈" and he said, "I never talked to her.
"她只待了五到十分钟就离开了" She was only here five or ten minutes, then she left."
他说从未和她交谈 That he never talked to her?
他是这么对我说的 他从未和她交谈 That's what he told me. He never talked to her.
那我们再继续看到11月8日 Let's move on then to the 8th of November.
你是否曾有机会搜查史蒂文·埃弗里的卧室 Did you have occasion to search Steven Avery's bedroom?
-是的 -当时谁和你一起进入了他的卧室 - Yes, sir. - Who did you enter that bedroom with?
库哈尔斯基警官和伦克警督 Deputy Kucharski and Lieutenant Lenk.
进行搜查时 In performing that search,
你是否搬动或是使用过这件家具 did you move or manipulate this piece of furniture?
我承认当时我搜查的动作较为粗鲁 Well, I'll be the first to admit I handled it rather roughly,
我转动 摇晃和拉扯过它 twisting it, shaking it, pulling it.
警官 11月8日当天你是否有看到画面中景象 Sergeant, did you see this image on the 8th of November?
有 当时我正在搜查这张办公桌 Yes. I was searching the desk here.
库哈尔斯基警官当时正坐在床上填写文件 Deputy Kucharski was sitting on the bed filling out paperwork.
伦克警督说了句意思大概是这样的话 Lieutenant Lenk said something to the effect of,
"这里地上有串钥匙" "There's a key on the floor here."
请问你 科尔伯恩警官 Let me ask you, Sergeant Colborn,
你自己 伦克警督 或是库哈尔斯基警官 did either yourself, Lieutenant Lenk or Deputy Kucharski
是否有人触碰了钥匙 touch that key?
-没有 -为什么 - No, sir. - Why not?
我想当时我们三人都知道 I think all three of us knew at the same time
这是一个非常重要的证物 that this was a very important piece of evidence and...
我们不该污染证物 you know, none of us were gonna taint that.
科尔伯恩警官 据我所知 Sergeant Colborn, you were asked, as I understand,
你在一起民事诉讼中 as part of a civil lawsuit,
被要求提供证词 to provide what's called a deposition.
能否告知陪审团你被问了什么 Can you tell the jury what you were asked about?
1994年或是95年 我接到一通电话 In 1994 or '95, I had received a telephone call
当时我还是马尼托沃克县监狱的 when I was working in my capacity as a corrections officer
一名狱警 in the Manitowoc County jail.
这通电话是来自 The telephone call was from somebody
一位自称是警探的人 who identified himself as a detective
他告诉我 and began telling me that
某个曾经在马尼托沃克县犯下性侵罪的犯人 somebody who had committed an assault in Manitowoc County
被他们逮捕了 was in... in their custody
而我们的监狱中可能囚禁了 and we may have somebody in our jail
一位其实并未犯下此罪的无辜囚犯 on that assault charge that... may not have done it.
我回复他 Uh, I told this individual
你可能需要联系警探 you're probably gonna want to speak to a detective
之后我将电话转接给一名警探 and I transferred the call to a detective.
就这样 这就是你与埃弗里先生之间的关联 That's it? That's your connection to Mr. Avery?
是的 Yes, sir.
那么我再问你 科尔伯恩警官 Well, let me ask you this, Sergeant Colborn,
你知不知道那通电话里说的就是史蒂文·埃弗里 do you even know whether that call was about Mr. Steven Avery?
不知道 No, sir.
这件事是否足以让你感到羞辱和困扰 Did that cause you enough embarrassment and enough angst
驱使你去获取并栽赃血液 好让它被发现时 that you obtained and planted blood so that it would be found
埃弗里先生会被冤枉为杀人凶手 and Mr. Avery would be wrongfully accused of a homicide case?
不会 No, sir.
你是否曾经栽赃证据诬陷埃弗里先生 Have you ever planted any evidence against Mr. Avery?
我必须声明这是我头一次 I have to say that this is the first time
人格受到质疑 没有 我没有做过 my integrity has ever been questioned and, no, I have not.
我问完了 法官大人 谢谢 That's all I have for Sergeant Colborn, Judge. Thank you.
这是你头一次人格受到质疑 This is the first time your integrity's been questioned.
身为一名警察的人格 是的 As it applies to being a police officer, yes.
好 埃弗里的人格已不是头一次遭受质疑了 OK. And it's not the first time Mr. Avery's has been,
所以我有问题要问你 so I have some questions for you.
2005年11月3日 November 3, 2005,
你得知特瑞莎·海尔贝克失踪 when you learned Teresa Halbach was missing,
也就是史蒂文·埃弗里的诉讼案中 was just three weeks after your deposition
你上庭取证的三周后 in Steven Avery's lawsuit.
是的 Yes, sir.
身为值班总指挥 As shift commander,
你本可以指派任何巡逻中的警员 you could've assigned anyone in the road patrol
去埃弗里路的地址查看 to go out to the address on Avery Road.
是的 Yes.
-而你选择亲自前往 -是的 - You chose to do it yourself. - Yes.
-你是否单独前往 -是的 - Did you go alone? - Yes, I did.
你第一份关于2005年11月3日 When, sir, did you first make a written report
与埃弗里见面的书面报告 of anything having to do with
是什么时候写的 the November 3, 2005 meeting with Mr. Avery?
我想是2006年的6月 June of '06, I believe.
也就是说 你和史蒂文·埃弗里 That is, it was almost eight months
在11月3日的对话 after that conversation with Steven Avery,
即本次调查中的首次对话 the first conversation with him in this investigation,
是在历经了大约八个月后 that you wrote down what you say he said to you
才由你回忆记录下的 back on November 3.
是的 Yes, sir.
马尼托沃克县警局 The Manitowoc County Sheriff's Department
自己表明且实际上 had, by their own admission, in fact,
皮特·贝茨 迪恩和杰瑞的调查员 伊利诺伊州 副治安官 1970-1996
也是他们首先指出 they're the first one that brought it up,
存在利益冲突的 that there was a conflict of interest there.
而在罪案调查中 And a conflict of interest
利益冲突大概是 in the investigation of a crime...
任何调查机构所能犯的 is probably the most serious violation
最严重的违规行为 any investigating agency can make,
因为这使得他们在调查中 because it brings into question
行动的可信度受到质疑 their credibility in actions throughout the case.
如果要我猜测的话 If I had to guess, I would say
我想他们宣布利益冲突 that they declared it a conflict of interest
以表示他们注重细节一丝不苟 to dot the "I"s and cross the "T"s.
但是他们并未进行 They didn't implement the procedure
利益冲突发生后应有的步骤 that would follow a conflict of interest.
也就是全面退出调查 And that is quite simply to totally back off.
他们继续活跃在调查中 They continued their active role in the investigation,
他们发现了大部分的证据 they developed most of the evidence,
而当他们去做这些事时 and when they took on that role that they shouldn't have,
也就是说他们选择了 they also committed themselves...
去证明是史蒂文·埃弗里犯了案 to proving Steven Avery had committed the crime.
所以11月5日 6日 7日 8日 So you're in the house on November 5, November 6,
你都在房子里 是吗 November 7, November 8. True?
是的 Yes, sir.
你每一次去到埃弗里家 There was no time that you went into Mr. Avery's home
全是和伦克警督一起 when you were not also with Lieutenant Lenk.
是的 No, sir.
你从未在伦克警督不在场的情况下 No time you went in Mr. Avery's garage
进入埃弗里先生的车库 when Lieutenant Lenk was not also with you?
我印象中没有 Not that I recall.
你把这个案件形容成 This case you would describe as the largest investigation
你作为执法人员参与过的 in which you personally have participated
规模最大的一次调查 as a law enforcement officer?
是的 Yes, sir.
参与调查的执法机构 Law enforcement agencies involved
产生了上千页的警方记录 have generated thousands of pages of police reports.
是的 Yes, sir.
而你的总贡献 Your total contribution is what,
只有不到半页的记录 a little bit under half a page?
是的 Correct.
你的报告中完全没有提到丰田车钥匙 The report that you filed makes no mention of the Toyota key?
是的 先生 That's correct, sir.
你的报告是否隐瞒了 Were there things that you did not
某些你不想记录下来的东西 want to commit to paper in a report?
没有 No, sir.
我们调查史蒂文·埃弗里和你关于他的记录时 While we're on Steven Avery and your reports about him...
那通电话 也就是另一个警局的 that phone call, the phone call where
警探打给你 告诉你 a detective from another law enforcement agency
你们可能抓错人的那通电话 你记得吗 told you you may have the wrong guy in jail? That one?
我记得 Yes, sir?
你是否写过这件事的报告 Did you ever write a report about that?
我没有 No, I did not, sir.
其实你写过 对吗 Well, actually you did, didn't you?
是在八年后 不是吗 It was about eight years later, wasn't it?
我写过一份陈述 是的 I wrote a statement on it. Yes, sir.
你在2003年写了那份陈述 You wrote that statement in 2003,
在史蒂文·埃弗里 the day after Steven Avery
终于出狱的后一天 是吗 finally walked out of prison, didn't you?
我不知道史蒂文是哪一天出狱的 I don't know what day Steve was released from prison,
不过我是在2003年写的那份陈述 but I wrote the statement in 2003.
我问完了 That's all I have.
科尔伯恩警官 在1994年或95年 Sergeant Colborn, back in 1994 or '95,
如果当时写了一份报告 if you would've written a report...
你会写些什么内容 what would it have been about?
我不知道我会写什么内容 I don't know what it would've been about.
如果我要报告所有接入的电话 If I wrote a report about every call that came in,
我得花上一整天写这份报告 I would spend my whole day writing reports.
以上是我对该位证人再次直接询问的所有问题 That's all the redirect I have of this witness.
非常感谢 警官 Thank you very much, Sergeant.
斯特朗先生 Mr. Strang?
你一共接到多少次另一位警官 How many calls have you ever gotten from another police officer
告诉你你们抓错了人的电话 suggesting you had the wrong guy in jail?
我不知道 我不记得有其他的了 I don't know. I can't recall any others.
我问完了 That's all I have.
科尔伯恩警官今天进去了很久 Sergeant Colborn was up there for quite some time today.
他已经当了十三年的 This is a gentlemen who I think's been
执法人员了 a law enforcement officer for 13 years.
他每天身穿制服 佩戴警徽和手枪 He puts on a uniform, a badge and a gun every day
兢兢业业 努力做到最好 and goes to work and tries to do his best.
我们都在这里 把这个报道了出去 We're all here. We're putting this on TV.
他今晚回家后 This guy's gonna go home tonight
可能会听到自己儿子哭着告诉他 and listen to his son maybe cry about
他在学校受尽了嘲笑 how everybody at school made fun of him
就因为他父亲是个坏警察 'cause his dad's a bad cop.
今天是很煎熬的一天 This was a hard day and
科尔伯恩警官已经煎熬了好些日子了 there have been some hard days for Sergeant Colborn.
但是 任何痛苦 But... any pain...
他所承受的所有压力 any burden that he's bearing...
和威斯康星州和它的执法人员 pales in comparison to
对史蒂文·埃弗里和他家庭的 what the State of Wisconsin and the people working for it
所作所为相比 都是苍白无力的 have inflicted on Steven Avery and his family.
此时此刻 史蒂文·埃弗里需要 And right now Steven Avery needs
杰瑞·布汀 迪恩·斯特朗 Jerry Buting and Dean Strang
以及所有相信他的人 非常需要 and anybody out there who believes in him, badly.
我们相信他 We do believe in him.
我们都愿意竭尽所能帮助他改变现在的处境 We are willing to do hard things to advance his cause,
他从2005年11月开始就一直声明 and he's been saying since November, 2005,
如果车里有他的血迹 也一定是有人栽赃的 that someone must have planted his blood if it's in that car.
但是我的问题是 But my question is, though,
如果你要把人送上被告席 is that if you were gonna put somebody on the stand
指控他犯了共谋罪 and accuse that person of a conspiracy,
克拉兹先生的意思是 Mr. Kratz kind of made it
你应该要拿出 sound like you should be able to offer some proof
能够切实证明是栽赃的证据 that this planting actually took place.
你一直在听共谋罪的证据 You're hearing the evidence of the conspiracy.
我多次坐在联邦法庭上 And I have sat in many a federal court room
听联邦检察官用比我们现在听到的更少的证据 and heard federal prosecutors prove a conspiracy on less
来证明共谋罪 than we've heard already here
到审讯结束时 你一定会听到的 and then you will hear by the end of this trial, I think.
这个案子进行到这个地步 The way this case is coming in at this point
对辩护方来说已经比我最初料想的有利多了 is much better for the Defense than I would've thought.
有利得多 Much better.
每一天 我们都在提醒他们 Every single day, we're reminding them
马尼托沃克县警局一直参与其中 about Manitowoc's continued involvement,
以及调查结果的明显倾向性 about bias in the investigation.
杰森·奥斯警官 马尼托沃克县警局
奥斯警官 你是第一位进入 Sergeant Orth, were you the first law enforcement officer
是的 Correct.
埃弗里废车场的执法人员吗 that was on the Avery property itself?
当时你的车停在哪里 Where was it that you stopped your vehicle?
我就在帕梅拉·斯特姆 I stopped the vehicle right
和妮可尔·斯特姆所站的地方停的车 where Pamela and Nikole Sturm were standing.
她们就站在这一片区域里 They were positioned right around this area
并且指引我注意这一排汽车 and they were directing my attention to this row of vehicles.
好 你还记得 All right. Do you recall about
你是何时到达现场的吗 what time you arrived at that scene?
大约10点59分 Approximately 10:59 hours.
上午10点59分 10:59 A.M.
奥斯警官 从你到达那时起 Now Sergeant Orth, from your arrival,
你是否一直守在一个 would you have been in a constant position
可以确定是否有任何执法人员或市民 to determine whether any law enforcement officer
进入现场或者触碰车辆的位置上 or citizen entered or disturbed that vehicle?
没有警官或者市民靠近或者触碰那辆RAV4 No police officer or citizen approached or touched that RAV4.
我就开门见山直接问你了 I'm gonna come right out and ask you,
你是否见到过一位和你同警局的 did you see a gentleman who works
名叫詹姆·伦克警督的同事 for your department named Lieutenant Jim Lenk?
我没有看到他 I did not see him.
你是否见到过一位和你同警局的 Did you see a gentleman who works
名叫安德鲁·科尔伯恩的同事 for your department named Andrew Colborn?
没有 我没有看到 No, I did not see him.
我问完了 法官大人 谢谢 That's all I've got of this witness, Judge. Thank you.
你从2点45分才开始 You didn't actually start preparing a log
记录所有进出过 of anybody coming to and from that scene
RAV4车辆所在区域的人 对吗 of the RAV4 until... 2:45, isn't that right?
我一站到车后大约十米的地方后 As soon as I stood behind the vehicle approximately 30 feet,
就用上衣口袋内的小笔记本作记录 I used the small notepad out of my shirt pocket.
一开始只是粗浅的记录 That was a rough log that I started.
当我回到待命区时 When I proceeded back to the staging area
就开始作正式的签到记录 is where I prepared a final log,
您所指可能就是这份 which is probably what you're referring to.
好 请你阅读这里 All right, if you would just read what you say
你在记录开始所写的14点45分 for the entry that says 14:45 hours,
就是2点45分 对吗 that is 2:45, is it not?
-是的 -请念出最后一句话 - Correct. - Read the last sentence.
"我开始记录所有靠近 "I started a log to document the names of individuals
车辆周围这片区域的人的名字" approaching the immediate area around the vehicle."
-"我开始记录" 对吗 -是的 - OK. "I started a log." Right? - Correct.
除了这一份写明开始时间为 Is there anyplace earlier in your report
下午2点45分的签到记录之外 where you mention that you ever took any notes
在你写下这句话之前 anywhere else about who was coming and going,
你是否对来往的人员 other than this entry right here
作过任何其他的记录 that it says it's 2:45 P.M.?
没有 在这之前只有我粗略的外勤笔记而已 No. My rough field notes, that's when I started previously.
-你还保留着吗 -没有了 - Do you still have those? - No, I do not.
所以我们只能仰赖你的记忆力了 是吗 So we just have to rely on your memory, is that right?
就各种时间节点和我到场的时间而言 是的 As far as the time of breaks and the time I approached.
-还有来往进出的人 -对 - And who came and went, right? - Correct.
汽车粉碎机
埃弗里的拖车
特瑞莎的车的发现区域
周六当天我到现场 When I got there on Saturday, ultimately
走到汽车粉碎机附近时应该是2点25分 I got down to by the car crusher about 2:25 I think it was,
汤姆·法斯宾德特别探员 联合首席调查员 威斯康星司法部 刑事侦查科
我告诉在现场待命的警官们 and the officers that were staged there, I told them,
或者说是建议他们开始签到记录 or I recommended that they start a log.
法斯宾德探员 下午2点之后 Agent Fassbender, any time after 2:00 p.m.,
你是否曾看见任何执法人员或市民 did you see any law enforcement officer or citizen
在那辆RAV4车上做手脚 tamper with that RAV4 vehicle?
没有 No.
-这对你重要吗 -重要 - Is that important to you? - Yes.
-为什么 -因为那辆车可能是 - Why? - 'Cause that's probably right now
本案目前最主要的一项证物 our main piece of evidence in this case.
你可曾担心 有四个小时的时间 Did it cause you concern that for four hours,
本案主要的证物 the major piece of evidence in this case
是掌握在一个被裁定为 was under the control of the very department
与本案有利益冲突的 that had already been determined
部门的手里的 to have a conflict of interest in this case?
我并不担心 我知道警察在那里 No, it didn't. I knew that officers were on that scene,
维护现场 protecting that scene.
那么你是否有提议让马尼托沃克的警官们撤出 Well, did you suggest that Manitowoc back off
让卡柳梅特的警官们接手 and that the Calumet deputy take over?
-这是你做的决定吗 -我想不是的 - Was that part of your decision? - I don't believe so.
确有其事 但我不认为 It happened, but I don't believe
那明确是我的决定 that was specifically my decision.
所以这只是凑巧 So it was just coincidental that
发生在你到场的时候 it happened around the time you arrived?
-有可能 是的 -好 - Oh, probably. Yes. - All right.
事实上 在你到场之后 And in fact, you were trying to shape things up a bit,
你曾定了些规矩 确保他们做签到记录等等 make sure that logs were taken and all of that when you arrived.
我建议他们做个签到记录 I suggested a log be kept.
这是良好的办案习惯 对吧 And that's good police practice to do that, right?
-当然 -然后你们就拥有了一份 - Certainly. - You then have a record
-人员进出的记录 是吗 -是的 - of everybody who comes and goes, right? - Correct.
即使是位高权重的警长也得签到是吗 Even the top dog sheriff has to sign a log like this, right?
是的 如果你要经过检查点 这是应该的 You should, yes, if you're going by that checkpoint, yes.
除非你用什么方法避开检查点 Well, unless you were eluding the checkpoint in some way,
才可以不用签到 是吧 you would really have to sign in, wouldn't you?
对 Correct.
好的 记录上显示 All right, so the log shows
伦克警督在11月5日周六的 that Lieutenant Lenk signed out at 10:41 p.m.
22时41分 伦克警督 里米克警探 科尔伯恩警官 离场
晚上10点41分离开 是吗 on Saturday, November 5th. Correct?
是的 如果这张全是11月5日的 是的 Yes, if this is all November 5th. Yes.
好 请你花点时间查阅这张表 OK. Well, if you take a minute and look through there
帮我指出伦克警督签到进场的时间 and show me where Lieutenant Lenk signed in.
你在11月5日这份签到表上是否有找到 Do you see an entry that Lieutenant Lenk signed in
任何伦克警督的入场签到记录 anywhere on that log on November 5th?
没有 我没找到 No, sir, I did not.
理论上 审讯应该是关于 Theoretically, a trial is supposed to be about
你姐姐的命案如何发生以及谁是凶手 the day your sister died and how she died and who did it,
麦克·海尔贝克 特瑞莎的弟弟
然而目前看来 yet it seems as though the State
公诉方似乎花费过多时间 is spending an inordinate amount of time,
特别是针对执法人员 especially with law enforcement officers,
不讨论案发过程 not talking about that,
反而去追究谁有机会接触什么 but who had access to what,
谁能进入犯罪现场 车辆等等 to what scene, to what vehicle...
你是否担心 伴随着这些证人 Are you concerned that, with each witness,
所谓合理怀疑的范围会变得越来越广 this window of reasonable doubt keeps getting wider and wider?
我一点也不担心 No, I'm not concerned at all.
我想这是对于 Um, I think it's a hand
公诉方试压的一种手段 that's kind of forced upon the prosecution team.
我相信是这样 所以一点也不担心 That's, you know, kind of my belief, so not concerned at all.
"警方采取守势" "埃弗里的律师质询警方搜索程序"
"他负责看守 本案当时最重要的一项证物 历时三小时 当时调查已转交 卡柳梅特县警局"
詹姆斯·伦克警督 马尼托沃克县警局
此地此刻 伦克警督 As you sit here today, Lieutenant Lenk,
你是否记得那天你是几点到达现场的 do you recall about what time you arrived at that scene?
大约是两点出头 两点零五左右 It was just shortly after 2:00, 05... somewhere in there.
当你抵达现场 即埃弗里废车场 Now when you got to the scene, the Avery Salvage scene,
那里是否已经设有 had there been any kind of
签到出入场的办理处 log in or check in procedure put in place yet?
-我不记得当时有签到处 -好的 - I don't recall a log in at that point. - All right.
我的确不记得 I just don't recall.
伦克警督 11月5日那天 Lieutenant Lenk, any time on the 5th of November
你与特瑞莎·海尔贝克的SUV有没有任何接触 did you have any contact with Teresa Halbach's SUV?
不 我没有 No, sir, I did not.
你在11月4日或11月3日 Did you have any contact with her SUV
或是在之前的任何时候 on the 4th of November or the 3rd of November
与她的SUV有没有任何接触 or in fact any time there before?
不 我没有 No, sir, I did not.
伦克警督 你是否曾经 Lieutenant Lenk, did you ever obtain any blood from
从档案室或是任何地点取得血液 the clerk's office or did you obtain any blood from any location
并将其栽赃于特瑞莎·海尔贝克的汽车内 and plant it anywhere in Teresa Halbach's vehicle or
或是于任何调查中可能会被发现的地点 anywhere where it could be found as part of this investigation?
没有 绝对没有 No, sir, definitely not.
你在直接询问时表示 Now, what you testified on direct examination was
你抵达埃弗里废车场的时间 that you arrived at the Avery salvage property
是两点出头 两点零五左右 是吗 just shortly after 2:00, 05 or something like that?
-是的 -如果你是两点或两点零五左右到达 - Yes, sir. - If you arrived at about 2:00 or 2:05,
那应该就是在有人开始做签到记录之前 then that may have been before anyone started keeping a log.
-是的 -在这个情况下 - That's correct. - Under those circumstances,
你没有签到入场便不足为奇 the fact that you didn't sign in would not look strange or odd.
是的 No, sir.
关于你当天什么时间 The, uh... subject of when
到达埃弗里废车场这个问题 you arrived at the Avery property that day
在此前也提过 是吗 has come up before in this case, hasn't it?
是的 Yes, sir.
你在2006年8月9日也宣誓取证过吧 You gave testimony under oath back on August 9, 2006?
我想是那天没错 是的 I believe that was the date, yes, sir.
这誓言和你今天所宣誓的誓言相同 Now, the oath, of course, was the same you took today.
正确 Correct.
而你在当时被问到 And were you asked on that occasion,
"你是否确实抵达了埃弗里废车场" "And did you in fact arrive at the Avery property?"
你回答"是" Your answer: "Yes."
又被问到"你知道是几点吗" Question: "Do you know what time?"
回答"我不确定确切的时间 Answer: "I'm not sure of the exact time.
大约当晚是六点半或七点 我不确定" Somewhere 6:30 or 7:00 that evening. I'm not positive."
你是否有被问到这些问题 并且给出这些答案 Were you asked those questions and did you give those answers?
是的 我有 Yes, sir, I did.
如果你是在六点半或是七点抵达的 Now if you had arrived at 6:30 or 7:00,
这就有点难以解释 it would be a little hard to explain
你的名字为什么不在签到表上 是吧 why you're not on the log signing in, wouldn't it?
是的 Yes, it would.
当我听到辩方... My blood starts to boil when the Defense...
诺姆·加恩 特别检察官 密尔沃基县助理检察官
指控这些警察 when I hear that these police officers,
这些值得信赖的公民 these good solid citizens, good decent men,
这些正直的人栽赃证据时 are accused of planting this evidence,
我相当生气 it starts to get my blood boiling.
他们可以来这里 They can get up here and
装出一副受到冒犯的样子 随他们 act as offended as they want, as often as they want.
但这个案子是由他们呈现的 But they're presenting this case,
不论是案子的处理方式 由谁处理 the way it was done, who it was done by,
还是不将谁排除 who was not excluded from it.
之前他们告诉公众马尼托沃克县警局没有参与 When the public was told that Manitowoc was not involved...
他们在新闻发布会上告诉你们 They sat up here at press conferences and told you
马尼托沃克县警局没有参与这次调查 Manitowoc was not involved in this investigation,
但是现在我们知道 他们参与了 when in fact, now we know they were,
而且甚至是在四个月后参与的 and that they were four months later, even.
你们得想想 这是怎么一回事 You gotta wonder, what's going on here?
2002年 即确定史蒂文无罪前一年 1985案件卷宗中的证据被送到州鉴证室接受DNA测试
利用DNA方法对一箱物品进行测试（经巡回法庭指示） 这些物品自庭审结束后为法院所持物证 （毛发及指甲屑）
2002年 证据传送附表 潘妮·伯恩森案
警探签名 詹姆斯·伦克
如果2002年 If Lenk was involved with
伦克参与了物证的传送 the transmittal of evidence in 2002,
那很可能他就知道 then he probably would've known
卷宗里有这一箱物证 that this box of Steven Avery's blood
里面有史蒂文·埃弗里的血 was in that case file.
因此在2005年10月和11月 And he would therefore have known
他就是已经知情的 in October and November of 2005,
当11月5日发现海尔贝克的车时 when the Halbach vehicle is discovered on November 5th,
他知道在文员办公室里 he would've known that there was a source of
可以弄到可用的史蒂文·埃弗里的血 Steven Avery's blood available in the clerk's office.
这张照片展示的是文员办公室里卷宗吗 This is a picture that shows the file in the clerk's office?
琳恩·齐格蒙特 马尼托沃克县巡回法庭文员
是的 Correct.
而卷宗里其实既有物证 And the file actually has the exhibits in it
-也有纸质文件 对吧 -是的 - as well as the paper documents, right? - Correct.
所有的物证都在下面 All the exhibits are underneath all the--
所有纸质文件都基本在上面 I think all the paper was pretty much at the top.
当被人翻看过后 I mean, and when people go through it,
这卷宗不一定能摆成原样 it doesn't necessarily end back in that same condition,
史蒂文1985的案件卷宗
我们把它放在档案柜里上部的侧边 and I think when it was kept over on the side filing cabinet,
我试过把东西都放平 这样上面就能盖... I tried to level things out too so the cover could--
就可以盖上盖子 the flaps could come over
因为我觉得这样不太保险 because I didn't think that was a very secure--
当然 但实际上 Sure. But there is that--
看见后面的那个泡沫展示板了吗 See that foam board exhibit in the background?
没错 不管怎么放它都会突出来 Right and that would probably stick out no matter where
因为盒子装不下 'cause it was too big for the box.
没错 所以无法封上盒子 Yeah. So the box wouldn't close.
-是的 -那好 不管怎么摆 - Right. - OK. No matter what you did.
那么 能不能这么说 All right. Now would it be fair to say
警员们出现在 that the presence of sheriff's deputies
文员办公室内间这种情况 inside the interior part of that clerk's office
并不少见 对吧 was not that unusual an event, right?
是的 That's correct.
此外 Now in addition,
警局有万能钥匙 the sheriff's department has access
可以进入文员办公室 是吧 to the clerk's office with master keys, isn't that right?
-安保法警可以 -好 - The security bailiffs would. - OK.
禁区 机密档案 未经授权 不得入内
有一把万能钥匙就可以 A master key would allow entry to
进入文员办公室内间 对吧 the inner part of the clerk's office, right?
-我想是的 -好 - I guess so. - OK.
在非工作时间 周末或者晚上 And that would include after hours,
也都可以 对吧 on weekends or in the evenings, right?
是的 Correct.
-看起来很可疑 -是啊 - It seems suspicious. - Yeah.
估计他们这次逃不掉了 Them people ain't gonna get away with everything.
估计逃不掉了 No. No.
-所以克拉兹很担心 -是啊 - That's why Kratz is worried about it. - Yeah.
他开始害怕了 Yeah, he's scared now.
-真的吗 -怎么会不怕呢 - Oh, yeah? - Well, why wouldn't he be?
多洛丝 史蒂文怎么样 Dolores, how's Steven doing?
他情况如何 你能说说吗 How is he doing? Can you comment?
能跟我们讲讲他的情况吗 ... while you were there that you'd like to share with us?
有什么能告诉我们的吗 Is there anything you can share with us?
我不想说 I don't want to share.
能告诉我们他的情况吗 Can you tell us how he's doing?
能说说你的想法吗 Can you please comment on something
我们想知道各方看法 so we know what everyone is thinking?
-你能说点什么吗 -我这是往哪走 - Can you talk to us? - Where am I gonna walk?
都看不见了 I can't even see.
他情绪如何 How are his spirits?
在这二十分钟里 What did you guys talk about
你们都谈了些什么 in this 20 minute period you were there for?
有什么想说的吗 Anything you'd like to say?
他有说起布兰登吗 Did he say anything about Brendan?
今天能跟我们说点什么吗 Can you talk to us at all today?
血液被拿去做血样或血检时 When blood is taken for a blood sample or blood tests,
会被装进紫盖试管里 it's put in a purple top tube.
里面有防止血液变质的防腐剂 It has a preservative to keep it from spoiling,
这种防腐剂叫做EDTA[乙二胺四乙酸] and that's a chemical called EDTA.
我们体内循环的血液里是不含EDTA的 We do not have EDTA in our own bloodstream.
如果血迹里有这种东西 If you find it in a stain,
那么这个血迹肯定是有人栽赃的 the argument is it must be because the blood was planted.
我查了一下是否能检测RAV4里的血迹 And so I looked into could we test the stains in the RAV4
来确认这个血迹 to try and make any kind of scientifically valid conclusion
是来自保存血样的试管 about whether or not the blood stain
还是来自流血的活人 could've come from a tube of preserved blood
以得到科学有效的结论 as opposed to an actively bleeding person.
史蒂文手部的照片证据
但没人做过这种检测 And there was nobody who did those tests anymore.
2007年1月30日 联系人 科学分析部 化学组 马克·勒博
但后来公诉方不知道用了什么方法 But then the State somehow
让联调局新创了这样一项检测 managed to get the FBI to create such a test...
实验室 弗吉尼亚州 匡蒂科 化学组
联调局实验室
检测报告
截止日期 2007年3月9日
而且在庭审进行中途就完成了 and have it ready sometime in the middle of the trial.
在公诉方停止举证的前一周 他们宣布联调局使用新开发的EDTA检测技术 已经取得了检测结果
在一次聆讯中 威利斯法官判定该检测结果为可采信
请问您是如何看待 How are you going to deal with the issue that
诺姆·加恩 特别检察官 密尔沃基县助理检察官
12月时你得知这项检测要等四至六个月 in December you were told this was gonna take four to six months,
这样就赶不及作为本次审理的证据提交 which would've been way too late to present at this trial,
然后突然之间 and then all of a sudden,
他们只用了几天就给出了结果这件事 they got it done in a couple of days?
不是只用了几天 我认为... Well, it wasn't a couple of days. I think, um...
我不认为这是个问题 I don't see it as a problem.
-好吧 -谢谢 - OK? - Thank you.
非常感谢 Thank you very much.
我有一个问题 Oh, I have one.
好的 女士 Yes, ma'am.
我的问题需要您做些推测 This is a bit speculative,
假如FBI没能这么快得出测试结果 but had the FBI not been able to expedite that testing so quick,
在没有这些测试结果 审理是否继续进行 would the trial have just gone on without these test results?
是的 Yes.
这点很重要 That's a pretty big thing.
-现在我能走了吗 -谢谢你 诺姆 - Now can I go? - Thanks, Norm.
-谢谢 -诺姆快跑 - Thank you. - Run, Norm, run.
谢谢你们 Thank you.
-好 我已经迫不及待了 -好的 - Good, 'cause I'm chompin' at the bit. - All right.
-不懂为什么 -棒 - I don't know why. - Yes.
我很开心能来这里 Oh, I'm happy to be here.
这个案件本来就不是普通的案子 You know, this case, as unusual as it has been already,
现在越来越非比寻常 前所未有了 has now become even more unusual and unique
因为这是我们国家第一次 也是唯一一次 because it's the first and only time anywhere in the country
允许一个专家在仍有存疑的情况下 where an expert is being allowed to express an opinion
对血迹里是否含有EDTA about EDTA being on a blood stain or not
发表看法了 when there's a challenge.
唯一与之情形类似的只有辛普森杀妻案 The only other time it's ever come in at all was the O.J. Case.
而且那还是双方都认可了 而在这里 And both sides agreed to it. Here,
这位法官是有史以来第一位判定 uh, this judge is the first judge who's ever ruled...
这种测试可被采纳的法官 this kind of test to be admissible.
但陪审团仍然会听到这些结果 But the jury is still going to hear these results.
是的 真是遗憾啊 Yes, they are. And that's unfortunate.
我们会尽全力向陪审团解释 You know, we'll do our best to explain to the jury
为什么那些结果不可信 why they shouldn't be relied upon.
这样的结果会如何 我们之后便会知道 You know, we'll see what happens on that.
县警局 交警队 监狱
我时来运转的时候总是... You know, I always get my chances where...
我要出来了 然后发生了这事 Yeah, I'm gonna get out, and then this stuff comes
县警局
我只能看着他们 and I can just see that
用尽千方百计不让我出去 they're trying to do their damnedest to keep me in.
交警队
监狱
所以 你知道 这很可怕 So you know, this... it's scary.
面对现实吧 Come down to it.
-早 -早 - Morning. - Morning.
勒博博士 你知道这个案件 Dr. LeBeau, did you know that this was a case
马克·勒博博士 化学组主任 弗吉尼亚州 匡蒂科 联邦调查局
涉及到一项对警方伪造证据的指控吗 that involved an allegation of police planting evidence?
我知道 Yes, I did.
为什么这样的一件案子 Why would a case such as that,
指控执法机关人员伪造证据 an allegation of law enforcement officers planting evidence,
会引起联调局的关心 be of a concern to the FBI?
联调局境内调查的责任范围内 Well, one of the areas that the FBI
其中一条就是 is responsible for investigating
调查有关公共腐败的案件 in this country is crimes of public corruption.
如果真的有人在那个政治地位上 If an individual is truly in that political position
或者说是处于执法地位上 or in a law enforcement position and
做了违法的事情 they are doing something illegal
让民众对该机构或个人的信任 that erodes the public's trust
受到了打击的话 in that agency or that individual,
我们一定会让那个人 and we would want that, certainly,
离开办公室 或离开公众视野 that individual out of that office or off the street.
现在我要问你 博士 Now I'd like to ask you, Doctor,
你在接触委任给你的这个案件时 what was your thought process
你的思考过程是怎样的 in approaching this case that was sent to you?
当你想证明或证伪 There's going to be one of two scenarios
血迹是否是用含EDTA的试管血栽赃的 when you're dealing with the notion
结果不外乎两种情况 that blood was planted from an EDTA tube.
第一种情况是 The first scenario is that if you find
你发现血迹中含有EDTA the presence of EDTA on that blood stain,
检测到EDTA 和EDTA铁钠
那就表明血是从试管中来的 then that's an indication that that blood came from a tube,
比如说紫盖试管 such as a purple top tube.
另一种情况是你没发现EDTA The other scenario is that you do not find EDTA,
未检测到EDTA 和EDTA铁钠
那就表明 and that would then suggest
血是从活人身上的伤口流出的 that the blood came from active bleeding
不是从含有EDTA的试管里来的 and not from an EDTA preserved tube.
至于本案的血样中是否存在EDTA Were you able to reach a conclusion
你检测过寄给你的 concerning the presence of EDTA on the blood swabs
特瑞莎·海尔贝克车里的血样后 that you tested from Teresa Halbach's RAV4
有结论了吗 that were sent to you in this case?
是的 先生 结论是 Yes, sir. And we were not able to identify
我们在所有从车内采集的 any indication of the presence of EDTA
提交给我们实验室的血样中 in any of the swabs that were submitted to our laboratory
没有检测出任何EDTA存在的迹象 and were reported to us as being collected from the RAV4.
你从科学确定性的 Do you have an opinion
合理程度来判断 to a reasonable degree of scientific certainty
你经手测试的 whether the blood stains
特瑞莎·海尔贝克车里的血迹 from Teresa Halbach's RAV4 that you tested
是否来自马尼托沃克县法院文员办公室 came from the vial of blood of Steven Avery
存放的史蒂文·埃弗里的血样 that was in the Manitowoc County Clerk of Courts office?
我的看法是 It's my opinion that
在本案中 从车内采集的血迹 the blood stains that were collected from the RAV4
不可能是从提供给我们的 could not have come from the EDTA tube
EDTA试管中来的 that was provided to us in this case.
你认为这是澄清事实吗 You think this is vindication?
是的 我确信这就是澄清事实 Yes, I clearly believe it's vindication.
我们有两名警官受到了 You know, here are two officers
非常可怕的指控 who were accused of something just terrible.
如果他们 That's terrible that they would
伪造证据 陷害他人 plant evidence and try and frame someone
而任由谋杀特瑞莎·海尔贝克的真凶逍遥法外 and basically ignore whoever it may have been
这真的是非常可怕 that, uh, murdered Teresa Halbach.
我是说 这是多么残忍的事情 I mean, what an awful thing to do,
不论是对于特瑞莎·海尔贝克的家人 it would be, to the family of Teresa Halbach,
还是对她本人而言 to Teresa Halbach.
念头本身都够邪恶了 更何况构思执行 It's just a dastardly thing to think about or even conceive.
这显然已经澄清了 It's clear vindication.
这是所有执法部门 And it's just something welcome
都期待的结果 to all of the law enforcement community
因为这是一项多么卑鄙的指控 because it's just... it's such a despicable allegation.
我只能说这么多 That's all I can say.
而且我认为这个检测已将事实澄清 And I think that this testing, uh, cleared that issue up
用一种十分强有力的方式澄清了事实 and, um, cleared it up in a very, very strong powerful way.
瞧瞧他们多么快就得到了联调局的支持 Look how quickly they got the FBI
帮他们重组仪器 做好所有调校 to retool their instruments, recalibrate everything,
做完这些匹配他们主张的内部确认研究 do these internal validation studies they're gonna claim,
几周内就得到了结果 um, and get results within a matter of weeks.
几周而已 A few weeks.
这项检测他们十年都没做 On a test that they haven't done for ten years.
然而在2002年 罪证鉴定室里 And yet, the crime lab has, in 2002,
放着能表明史蒂文·埃弗里无罪的证据 evidence in its lab that Steven Avery is innocent,
它可是等了一年才等到检测 and it sits for a year before it gets tested.
这体现了个人在政府的权力面前 It shows the imbalance between the individual
是多么的渺小 and the power of the government.
他们强强联手 The full force of which they're trying to
瞄准了这个男人 bring to bear on this man.
为什么 为什么是这个案件 Why? And why in this case?
因为我们指控了 Because we have accused,
而且证据也指向他们中有人有陷害嫌疑 and the evidence suspiciously points to framing by one of them.
当你那么做了 "你就得后果自负" And when you do that, "You do so at your peril,"
就像公诉方说的那样 as the State would say, you know?
但庆幸的是 陪审团会看到 Hopefully, though, the jury's gonna see
他们起诉和调查此案件的方式中 that there's this imbalance in the way
充斥着这种不公平 that they're prosecuting this case and investigating this case.
而且我认为现在发生的事 不是... And I think what's going on here, it's not--
再次强调 不是他们认为他们在诬陷无辜的人 again, it's not like they think they are framing an innocent man.
而是确实在 But they are.
他们认定他有罪 They think he's guilty.
于是他们尽一切可能 And they're doing whatever they can,
来扭曲证据 you know, to twist the evidence
或者生造一个案子来给他定罪 or create a case that supports that.
-...这边的会议室 -好 - ...one of the conference rooms here. - Yeah.
-马克 -你好 - Mark. - Hi, how are you?
你之前上庭时讲述了 You testified about why the FBI would have
联调局对这个案子感兴趣的原因 any interest in this case in the first place.
-还记得吗 -记得 - You recall that? - Yes, I do.
你的证词中说道 联调局关注 You testified that one of the FBI's concerns was
是否有警员腐败 that if there's a corrupt cop on the street
做违法的事情 doing something illegal,
当然栽赃证据诬陷别人 and certainly planting evidence to frame somebody
也是违法的 对吧 would be illegal, right?
-你同意我说的吗 -同意 - Would you agree with me? OK. - Yes, I would.
而且联调局的职责之一 And that one of the functions of the FBI was
就是查出这种坏警员 对吧 to ferret out bad cops like that. Right?
-大致来讲 那是我...是的 -那好 - Generally, that's what I... Yes. - OK.
大致来讲 我是那么说的 是的 Generally, that's what I said. Yes.
那好 下面我要展示479号物证 OK. I'm gonna show you what's been marked as exhibit 479.
你能读一下第二页最上面的话吗 Would you read the sentence on the top of page two?
上面讲了请求你们前来协助的目的 It discusses the purpose of this request for your services.
"此请求旨在 "The purpose of this request is
"确认血样中存在EDTA "to establish the presence of EDTA in the vial of blood,
"以反驳此血样 "thereby eliminating the allegation
"被用作栽赃证据的说法" "that this vial was used to plant evidence."
好 请告诉我在这份请求中 OK. Can you show me anywhere in there
什么地方提到 where that request says,
"我们还想要查明在马尼托沃克县 "Our purpose is also to find out if there might be
"是否有腐败警员存在的证据" "any evidence that there's a corrupt cop in Manitowoc County"?
我没看出哪句话有这个意思 I don't see anything of that nature.
在威斯康星州 Is homicide of a citizen
杀人是联邦罪吗 in the State of Wisconsin a federal crime?
-不是 先生 -好 - No, sir, it's not. - OK.
在威斯康星州 Is mutilation of a corpse
损毁尸体是联邦罪吗 in the State of Wisconsin a federal crime?
-不是 -好 - No. - OK.
所以 你带联邦机构参与 So, the purpose of you getting your federal agency
这件触犯州法的案件调查 involved in this state crime
目的是反驳此血样 was to eliminate the allegation
被用作栽赃证据的说法 that this vial was used to plant evidence.
是吗 Isn't that true?
不是 先生 No, sir.
如果能让我详细说明 我很乐意解释 If I can elaborate, I'd be happy to explain.
你可以稍后再详细说明 先生 You can elaborate later, sir.
在特瑞莎·海尔贝克车里 You only tested three swabs
发现的若干血迹中 that were reported to have been found
你们只检测了三处取样 对吧 in the Teresa Halbach vehicle, right?
是的 That's correct.
你知道除这三处外 Do you know how many other stains
在那辆车里还找到了多少处血迹吗 were also found in that vehicle?
-我不知道 -你的看法是 - No, I don't. - Your opinion that
海尔贝克车里的取样中没有EDTA there's no EDTA in the swabs from the Halbach vehicle
其实只限于 then is limited to the three swabs
他们提交给你的这三处取样 对吧 that were presented to you, isn't that right?
你能再说一次吗 Could you repeat that?
我认为 你发表的看法所涵盖的范围 You expressed an opinion a little more broadly
可能比你的本意更宽 than perhaps you intended to, I believe,
你的看法是 which was that the blood stains
海尔贝克车里的血迹 in the Halbach vehicle could not have
不可能来自你检测的紫盖试管 对吧 come from the purple vial that you tested. Right?
是的 That's correct.
但你其实说的是 But you're actually referring
不存在于你检测的那三处血迹中 only to the three stain swabs that you tested.
对吧 Correct?
不 我就是原始证词里的那个意思 No, I believe my original testimony is what I meant.
你的意思是即使你没有检测过 Are you telling me right now that even though you never tested
车里其他地方发现的 three other swabs of separate blood stains
另外三处血迹 found elsewhere in the RAV4 vehicle,
你还是愿意给出专业意见说 that you're willing to express an opinion
那三处血迹里也都不含EDTA吗 that none of those three swabs have EDTA either?
我认为 I believe that to be true
在科学确定性的合理范围内 是这样的 within a reasonable degree of scientific certainty, yes.
好 我就是想看看你要撑到什么时候 OK. Just wanted to know how far you were willing to go.
如果你要检测是否存在EDTA The issue with this procedure
吉妮·阿尔维祖 实验室数据质量审核员
这个程序中你该关注的问题 is not whether or not it's a valid result if you got--
不是你检测出的结果是否有效 if you were actually detecting EDTA.
如果结果表明 This is a good method--
你检测和鉴定出了EDTA If the results end up that you detect EDTA
那这个方法是很不错的 and you identify EDTA,
这是个能确定 that's a good indication
样本中有EDTA存在的好办法 that EDTA was present in that sample.
但现在的问题在于 The problem really occurs
血迹中没有检测出EDTA when EDTA is not detected in a blood stain.
这种情况下的问题就是 利用这种方法 And the problem in that regard is, from this method,
我无法判断是单纯没有检测出来 I don't know whether that's simply because they didn't detect it
还是确实就没有EDTA or because it wasn't there.
利用这个方法 我无法分辨是哪种原因 I can't tell the difference between those two for this method.
我不知道这种方法适用的检测范围 I don't know really what their method detection limit is.
所以我不知道是他们没有发现 So I don't know whether they didn't see it
还是真的没有 or it wasn't there.
通过这堆资料里可以查到的数据 And looking at the data that is available in this stack,
还有之前所做的有效性测试等等 the validation tests that were done and those sorts of things,
有没有迹象表明联调局已经确定 is there any indication that the FBI ever found out
这类检测的实际检测范围 what the actual detection limit or method detection limit
或方法检测范围 would be for this kind of a test?
没有 通过这些数据看不出来 No, there's no such indication in these data.
所以通过这些数据 你能否给出专业意见 And so from this data, can you express any opinion
判断勒博先生检测的这三处血迹 about whether the three stains examined by Mr. LeBeau
是否可能来自同样经过检测的 could have come from the blood sample,
血液试管Q-49中的血样 the blood tube Q-49 that was also examined?
这些血液取样很有可能 It's quite possible that those blood swabs
来自埃弗里先生的血液试管 could've come from Mr. Avery's blood tube,
只是实验室无法检测出来 but simply not been detectable by the laboratory.
所以即使经过这项检测 So even having gone through this test,
RAV4里那三处血迹中仍可能含有或有过EDTA is it possible that EDTA is or was in those three RAV4 stains?
是的 Yes.
那勒博先生 What about the three swabs
没有检测过的另外三处取样呢 from the RAV that were not tested by Mr. LeBeau?
能得出什么结论吗 Can any conclusion be drawn on that?
我是化学分析师 I'm an analytical chemist.
我的工作不是去猜测样品中有什么 I'm not in the business of just guessing what's in samples.
要经过检测才能确定里面有什么 We have to test samples to decide what's in them.
那你能否得出这样的结论 So, can you conclude then
RAV4里找到的由联调局检测过的几处血迹中 that any of the RAV4 stains that were examined by the FBI
你能完全确定其中一处或多处血迹 could not have come from the blood tube
绝不可能来自埃弗里先生的血样试管 that contained Mr. Avery's blood?
我无法得出这样的结论 I can't conclude that.
如果能在主要争议点上说服他们 If we can convince them on the major points,
那么照《陪审团指南》说的 then as long as there is a "reasonable hypothesis"
只要有"合理假设" as the jury instruction says,
那么我想我们就有机会说服他们 then I think we've got a chance to convince them.
这一切 当然 是假设这十二个人 All this, of course, assumes that we end up with 12 people
完全没有偏见 公正中立 毕竟... who really are unbiased and impartial, despite, you know,
-他们看了几个月的媒体报道 -对 - the months of publicity that they've had. - Right.
而且你知道吗 And you know?
这真的很考验人性 That's asking a lot of human beings.
这起案子 你知道 This case, you know,
如果那些人做不到公正 could've been a futile exercise for the last month
那我们上个月的努力就白费了 if we ended up with people that can't do that.
可是这一切都无从而知 And there's just no way of knowing.
公诉方结束提交证据后 辩方动议撤销非法拘禁指控 这是布兰登被捕后新增的三项指控中仅剩的一项
这里说的非法拘禁是指布兰登·戴西说出 The false imprisonment count here
那些没有根据 不准确且未经证实的言论后 is the last vestige of the unsupported, inaccurate,
增加的指控中剩下的最后一项 uncorroborated claims of Brendan Dassey
警员们将他所说的话播送出去 that were broadcast by agents of the State
任何人打开电视都能看到 to everyone who had a TV turned on,
这损害了公平审判的权利 that threatened the right to a fair trial,
影响了从案件审判地 that threatened the right to have a jury drawn
召集陪审团的权利 from the venue in which this crime was charged,
任何人听到这样的描述 and that curled the hair of anyone
都会感到毛骨悚然 who listened to the description
一个女人赤身裸体地被拷在床上 of a naked woman manacled to a bed,
遭到性侵 刺伤 割喉 窒息 sexually assaulted, stabbed, throat cut, strangled,
在割喉未能将其杀死的情况下 when the slashing of her throat didn't kill her,
之后又被开枪射击十一次 and then only later, a corpse shot 11 times.
这就是传出去的故事 That was the story.
电视上呈现出的就是这样恐怖的故事 That was the horror story that was presented.
而非法拘禁 如我所说 And the false imprisonment charge, as I say,
是这恐怖故事中的最后一项指控 is the last vestige of that horror story.
那是虚假的故事 It was a fable.
丑陋而可怕的虚假故事 An ugly, horrific fable,
却依然还是有物证 but a fable all the same, belied by the physical evidence
和公诉方主诉的证词支持的虚假故事 and by the testimony in the State's own case-in-chief.
所以现在我请求法庭 So I'm asking the court to, in a sense,
在一定程度上纠正公诉方的所作所为 ratify what the State has already done.
也就是推翻这项指控 Which is the abandonment of this charge
推翻布兰登·戴西 and the abandonment of the theory
与此案有关的那些设想 that Brendan Dassey had anything to do with this...
或者说布兰登·戴西 or that the story that Brendan Dassey told
在警察的审问下说出的故事 under police questioning...
并非事实 没有根据 has any veracity, corroboration,
而在审讯中呈上的证据也没有说服力 or foothold in the evidence presented at this trial.
在陪审员诚信审查过程中 During voir dire, a number of jurors indicated
许多陪审员表示对布兰登·戴西一案 they were at least somewhat familiar with
多少有所耳闻 the case against Brendan Dassey.
法庭认为 如将此指控提交陪审团 To submit this charge to the jury would, the Court believes,
那么陪审团的裁决将受到 invite the jury to fill in the blanks, if you will,
他们可能受到记忆中 但其实在此案中 by what they might otherwise remember about allegations
并未被证实的指控的影响 that have not been supported by evidence in this case.
法庭裁定记录在案的证据不足以 The Court concludes there is not sufficient evidence
支持陪审团出于合理怀疑 in the record to support a jury finding of guilt
对于非法拘禁的指控做出有罪裁决 beyond a reasonable doubt on the false imprisonment charge,
因此法院批准 and the Court therefore grants
被告撤销该指控的动议 the defendant's motion to dismiss that charge.
今天上午的动议聆讯是关于 The motion hearings this morning on a litany of issues
陪审团早已有既成印象的一些问题 that have already gone before the jury.
你要如何让陪审团重新审视这些问题呢 How do you unring that bell with the jury?
一方面 我们回到了2006年2月28日当天 In one way, we're back to February 28, 2006.
回到了史蒂文最初面临的三项指控 We're back to the three counts Steve faced originally.
另一方面 我们无法真的回到2006年2月28日 And in another way, we can never be back to February 28, 2006,
因为从2006年3月1日和2日起 because March 1 and March 2, 2006,
当时公诉方举行了新闻发布会 happened with the State's press conferences
将丑陋公之于众 尽管最后证明都不是实情 and all of the ugly, and as it turns out, untrue things
但在舆论上非常不利于我们的当事人 that were said publicly against our client since then.
所以要问我见到最后一项 So is it nice to see the last vestige
指控撤销 我高不高兴 of those allegations fall away?
当然 但若说我欣喜若狂 Sure. And am I gloating over it?
并没有 因为最开始就不该有那些指控 No, because they never should've been there in the first place.
请将话筒移至埃弗里先生面前 If you can move the microphone over to Mr. Avery then.
埃弗里先生 你是否清楚 Uh, Mr. Avery, do you understand that the decision
要不要作证 由你决定 whether to testify or not is yours to make?
清楚 Yes.
也就是说你可以听从你的律师们 That means you can listen to your attorneys
和他们的建议 可最终还得由你决定 and listen to their advice, but ultimately it's your call.
你明白这点吗 Do you understand that?
我明白 Yes, I do.
有人威胁或向你许诺过什么 Has anyone made any threats or promises to you
企图影响你的决定吗 to influence your decision?
没有 No, they didn't.
你有和你的律师们深入商量你的决定吗 Have you thoroughly discussed your decision with your attorneys?
是的 我有 Yes, I did.
那你有做出决定 And have you made a decision as to whether or not
是否愿意在此案中作证吗 you wish to testify in this case?
-有 -那么你的决定是 - Yes. - What is your decision?
我的决定是 我是清白的 我... The decision is... I'm an innocent man and I...
我无需作证 There's no reason for me to testify.
人人都知道我是清白的 Everybody knows I'm innocent.
好 那么你不愿作证 对吗 OK. So you wish not to testify, is that correct?
对 Yes.
-谢谢 请坐 -谢谢 - Thank you. You may be seated. - Thank you.
那么今天史蒂文·埃弗里说话了 是什么样子 So Steve Avery talked today. What was that like?
据我之前对他的了解 他喜欢说话 From what I've seen of him before, he likes to talk,
所以我认为他可能 so I think he probably
愿意上证人席说几句 可是 would've liked to be up on the stand, but,
你知道 这是不合常理的 you know, it's kind of counterintuitive.
如果他真是无辜的 If he's innocent,
那他就该去说点什么 he should go up on the stand and say, you know--
他没什么好隐瞒的 he has nothing to hide,
那他为什么不站出来呢 但是 so why isn't he up there? But,
-是啊 -麦克 他说自己是无辜的时候 - Yeah. - Mike, what was going through your mind
你有什么想法 when he said he was an innocent man?
和这十六个月来我一直在想的是一样 Um, same thing that's been going through my mind for 16 months.
我听到他说的全是"这不是事实" Everything I've heard him say hasn't been the truth.
今天也不例外 No different today.
你知道 在我看来 You know, I think that he thinks
他觉得自己之前被释放过 he's been let out of prison once,
就以为同样的事可能再次发生 但是 he thinks it's probably gonna happen again. But,
我不认为 我不那么认为 I don't think, uh... I don't think so.
由于没有更多证人 双方有两天时间准备结案陈词
好 就是这样 证据就这些 All right, so that's it. That's the evidence.
现在怎么办 Now what?
我们就说呗 Well, now we argue it.
你知道 总的来说 And, uh, you know, you guys will have the day off tomorrow,
你们明天可以休息了 by and large, yeah.
有几件事我们得谈谈 Let's talk about a couple of things.
最开始史蒂文有六项罪名 You guys started with six counts against Steve.
现在只剩下三项了 We're down to three counts.
这是好消息 That's the good news.
坏消息是 The bad news is,
只要罪名一无法撤销 就前功尽弃了 if we lose count one, nothing else matters.
-是的 -前功尽弃 - No. - Nothing else matters.
我们只要输掉罪名一 If we lose count one,
他就得在监狱度过余生了 he's going to prison for the rest of his life.
除非赢得上诉 或者 Barring winning on appeal or,
之后检测出EDTA you know, testing of the EDTA later,
但只要罪名一无法撤销 那判决就是终身监禁 but the sentence will be life in prison if we lose count one.